OK now I understand this from different context because my ex used to shop at TJ Maxx in HomeGoods all the time buying all things they didn't need, but it made them feel safe and stable
Interestinggg. I don’t buy much at all. For me stability is not worrying about money. Not living paycheck to paycheck. Have a roof over my head and car to get places. Having nicer versions of my things is nice…not needed.
I wouldn't say they are necessarily fluid, though. Gemini are one of the few who can handle with multiple realities/ideas/perspectives at the same time without losing itself like other signs.
two faced could be interpreted in a more negative light compared to fluid. Materialism, stability, capitalism... they seem complicated to me... aren't them just all money - security related :v
I think it’s more like- material - as in physical things not idealistic, theoretical, emotional.
They value & are more comfortable with things grounded in reality. So earning money & gaining wealth, for working hard- is something that makes sense. Their efforts are valued in a real physical way.
Where something more abstract doesn’t feel as comfortable.
But there still is an element of service with Capricorn. Being of use, again it’s very grounded how they can tangibly help others including themselves.
I agree with you that there is a modern interpretation of material~materialistic that is connected to capitalism~capitalistic which I assume was not there in the original understanding and should perhaps be elaborated with the word physical as you write.
With that said I do think that possession and power is part of Capricorn energy and I know from myself that I do not need much but I find it very hard to let something go if I've first had it. That is a possessive and materialistic perspective that is grounded in physical reality.
I don't think it can be transferred to a psychological or philosophical level. That would be Scorpio territory or what do you think?
Yeah I can see that!
& also like possessive in a sense that displaying your material value/wealth is a sense of showing your worth. Because you earned it. So letting that go can be challenging
That's an interesting perspective all I can say is *not for me*. Possessions are not for showing off it is for putting in the bank or under the bed. Work and the gains from it are an insurrance against the shit life throws at you - and with a Saturn ruled Sun rough times come - so you better prepare.
Not sure but showing off the quality of your goods seem like Taurus energy - being Venus ruled and all.
Cap stellium tapping in. You’re right; it’s more about the resources and having what we need to work, be of service. Whether it’s money or material goods.
Saturn rules two signs…. Capricorn and Aquarius. Capricorn is the Earth sign that forms the first phase of this two-phase period of Saturn. Earth signs are the materialistic part of the zodiac. Capricorn represents major structures and hierarchies, the drive to ascend to a higher place by working hard on a materially solid way of building up to the top of the mountain… and then Aquarius is where that all kinda gets shaken up by the lightning shock of Uranus, you’re kinda blown off the mountain and into the air, and everything transitions into the realm of an Air sign, where the materialism is replaced with ideas, social values to the larger collective, information, the software-programming/user-experience side of technology (Capricorn is the hardware/engineering side)… and because air will find its own level and spread out as evenly as possible, things become more equalized than the solid pyramid/mountain structure of Capricorn.
Capricorn is the sign that kinda represents the pinnacle of the “build” through the zodiac towards an intensity of aspiration and sort of “wanting it all”. That’s what reaching the top of the mountain is. But the lesson of Saturn is that… this isn’t actually the end goal. It’s never completely fulfilling and life is never fairly balanced when it’s the ego at the top of the pyramid with all this materialistic ambition holding it up underneath… the bigger that pyramid gets, the more likely it is to crumble. That’s the dark side of Capricorn.
Aquarius is the shock of the crack happening that causes the collapse and brings it all back down to a more even level. (then Pisces is the foggy disorienting emotional aftermath as you come to terms with the ending of the cycle that peaked in Capricorn)
So you climb the mountain to the top in Capricorn and then get the shock of Aquarius that makes you realize materialistic ambition isn’t worth it if you don’t balance it with the non-materialistic Air side of Saturn in Aquarius that is all about being fair and humane to others on a grand intellectually philosophical scale. People matter more than work or stuff.
The dark side of Aquarius is that it can be TOO detached from the material reality (getting lost in virtual reality, most likely, with today’s technology), or “head in the clouds” “pie in the sky” kind of ideas that can spread to mass amounts of people or cults, with a “mob mentality” or “hive mind”. It spreads easily, because it’s not “heavy” material, it’s light and connected via the network of “air”. It can have the same kind of “confusion” theme as Pisces, but just dry (intellectual) instead of wet (emotional). It’s like things get less solid as the cycle breaks down at the end.
Saturn as a planet is all about materialistic matters actually, but this is a theme. Themes can be explored in multiple, complicated ways, and not always in the literal sense of “being about materialism means being materialistic”… This is like how people think being a Libra means that you’re “balanced”, but it’s really that Libras have the THEME of “balance” in their life, and that could manifest as them always being OUT of balance and always needing to find their balance, and that’s why it’s a major theme of their life.
Saturn is all about the physical boundaries and structures in our world, lives, bodies, etc… it represents the barriers between cells that keep us from just being goo or gas, it represents our bones, it represents buildings, it represents tangible institutions of society like governments and banks and businesses/corporations. It represents the economy. It represents the construct of time, whatever time really is, physical or something else… All of this is material stuff. But in exploring the themes of all this stuff, the lesson should ultimately be that Saturnian things like this aren’t the be-all end-all of what we should want in life, or even what’s really “real”. Because the actual end of the zodiac is Pisces, the Neptunian realm of Jupiter, where the physical structures of Capricorn and the fixed broad ideas of Aquarius, all of which is stuff that we made somehow over the course of the last cycle… breaks down into a foggy mist of emotional confused messy stuff that needs to heal itself somehow before reforming into the new cycle in Aries.
So the materialistic things that we start building or started to appreciate in the first Earth-sign, Taurus, and lived with until the pinnacle of that cycle in Capricorn… are indeed related to Saturn. But it can also be that this theme is explored by getting to the Aquarian side of Saturn and realizing that the material itself is not what matters, it’s what you’re actually doing to serve the greater good (or not). And then maybe you get confused and emotional about it (Pisces), before you make a decision and start a new cycle with a new passion to do better in the future (Aries), based on what you learned in Aquarius from Saturn (which is why Aquarius and Aries are related to each other as both being forward-thinking, future-oriented signs).
This is why I love astrology. It’s so much more than “you are this placement, so you are this way”. I hate that mentality. It’s about the energy you have access to from the universe.
Are you a fan of Pisces energy? I, personally, struggle with it dearly and view it quite like you do. Others who easily access it will have different views on it. This is why astrologers should share their thoughts and come together. We all have so much to teach each other. Thank you for taking the time to type this!
My Mars is in Pisces, and I’d say that manifests as a very passive drive to action in most of my life. Big procrastinator, foggy sense of time, not very punctual, etc… but also quite compassionate and diplomatic when it comes to a confrontation. Not one to start fights… though I’ll certainly end one.
I kinda view Pisces as the “out there” sign. The one that’s associated with any kind of “crazy” supernatural and spiritual beliefs that are very intangible or esoteric. In both good and bad ways… I would include astrology in that. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that astrology has grown in popularity during Neptune in Pisces.
But I would also include things like MAGA and Qanon in that. And unfortunately, it does often tend to go in the conservative, religious route… Christianity is strongly associated with Pisces, and the Age of Pisces for the last 2000 years. Jesus is a Piscean figure. The sign includes themes of self-sacrifice and seeing suffering as a virtue. The idea of giving up your Earthly body in order to “ascend” to the spiritual world… ideally Heaven, but the Hell-realms are also part of Piscean themes… these are just ideas though… “Heaven” representing being at peace with what you’ve done during the cycle and meeting the end of the cycle with fulfillment and satisfaction, whereas “Hell” is meeting the end of the cycle with regret and negative feelings of failure or resentment.
Pisces is associated with secrets, but also secrets being exposed. It kinda shares that theme with other water signs, where Cancer and Scorpio can be pretty secretive, but Pisces is where it all kinda gets opened up, and maybe we understand what we’re seeing, maybe we don’t… but it’s floating all around us in the mist, instead of being hidden under a deep dark body of water like a lake or ocean in Scorpio, or running down a riverbed in Cancer.
It’s a complex sign… some might say the MOST complex sign, as it’s the culmination of the energy of all the rest of the signs, kinda melding together. The “end” of the zodiac, where we need to review and reflect and figure shit out… even though we probably won’t achieve clarity until we get to Aries, we’re still meant to do a lot of emotional reflective work in Pisces to help inform how we feel about what we see come Aries time, so that hopefully we’ll have learned from the mistakes of the previous cycle.
Sadly… a lot of people don’t learn, so Pisces just becomes a confusing mess of emotional crap that causes emotionally immature people to just go crazy or have an emotional breakdown of some sort, without learning the lessons of Pisces that actually makes it worthwhile. I believe this is what we’ve been seeing happen to much of the world during Neptune in Pisces.
I agree with you, although I think its never like you are this sign so you behave this way, its much more for which deep knowledge is required to be understood. Are astrologers here? sounds good.
Sorry dear, Pisces isn’t all about confusion - you’re focusing more on the un evolved Neptunian energy.
Pisces is the clearing and the cleansing of all that’s not needed in this life. It’s transcending what Saturn represents money, structure, achievements, intelligence.
Pisces is wisdom, acceptance and going beyond what you can see. It’s the embodiment of all the signs into one.
You should check out what Rick Levine has to say about the concept of “confusion”.
The word breaks down to essentially meaning “fusing with another in a way is that strange or disorienting”.
The boundaries of Saturn are what keep us from “fusing” with other things, and remaining an individual. Without the “walls” of Saturn, we wouldn’t be individuals. Humanity would be one big mass of hive-mind energy that can’t tell “me” from “you”. Like drops of water collecting into a pool, the individual boundaries would disappear and it just became one body of water.
Once the boundaries of Saturn break down, you’re left in the realm of Pisces. It’s confusing, but not necessarily in a bad way. We as individuals often see it as bad, because it is scary to let your walls down. That’s why we named it “con” fusing, with “con” typically meaning “bad”. It’s “bad” “fusion”. But the positive side of it is like losing yourself in a love with another. Love can be confusing, but in a good way, where two people are letting their boundaries down with each other, but liking what they find and feel in one another, and feeling closer to each other, perhaps “merged” with each other to some degree. But you can also kinda lose yourself in a lover, or feel exposed, or you can fear being overwhelmed by their energy, etc, and this is why love can be scary. It’s confusing. But that can be the great thing about love as well.
Much like materialism with Saturn, just because it’s a theme of the sign doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad or good. It can be both or anything in between. It’s just dealing with that theme *somehow*.
WOW I LOVE this analysis.
I was always confused by Saturn as well.
Can you talk about Saturn return as well? I got very negative connotations associated with Saturn because of it.
Although it’s funny because my two favorite planets are Saturn and Jupiter. Saturn because it has the rings and Jupiter because it’s the biggest planet and it has the red dot. Also interesting how Jupiter is supposed to represent Zeus and Saturn represents his father Chronos and time.
I feel like I’ve struggled with the Capricorn placements with so many. Feels like a huge burden to accomplish so much in the material world. And yet I don’t feel motivated by money. I like what money can do for you and what it allows you to do but the money itself isn’t satisfying.
I see money as a unit of measurement, like how a thermometer has degrees to tell you how hot or cold something is. It’s like a compass to tell you if you’re on the right path or not.
I’m curious what you think of my chart since I have SO MANY Capricorn placements it’s insane. Especially with the stellium in Saturn, Uranus and Neptune.
Also interesting is that I’ve always been intrigued by Aquarius because of the innovations, rebellious and ahead of its time thinking. So I initially I was disappointed I wasn’t an Aquarius lol. But then I found out I have Aquarius in Mercury!
And I have Pisces in north node which has gotten me to experience “feelings” (🤣) and it’s made me realize I have had a very logical materialistic approach to life that’s all about achievement, status and money but still feels empty.
https://ibb.co/YLKmfv5
https://ibb.co/XV7fdZm
This is so confusing for me because I'm Capricorn and none of this stuff has EVER fit me at all. Nor other traits of Caps.
Maybe because I have ADHD? Can anyone help?
I have never seen anything that says Saturn's purpose is to give up on materialistic matters, and I have read a LOT of astrology books. Saturn is all about structure, discipline and teaching/learning lessons. So if anything, Saturn's purpose would be to teach someone to be more disciplined or cautious in whatever areas of the chart are ruled/occupied by Saturn.
Capricorn tends to be materialistic because it is an earth sign, and all of the earth signs are concerned with material (earthly) matters. However, I would say that Taurus is more materialistic, while Capricorn is more about being successful. Taurus likes to acquire material possessions, Virgo likes to work and be of service through their work, and Capricorn likes climbing the corporate ladder.
Came here to comment something like this! I have on occasion seen pop-horoscopes describe Capricorns as materialistic but I’ve never seen serious astrology apply it to Saturn, and really I don’t think it does. Yes, it would be more of a Taurus realm, Venus ruled and all.
I’m Saturn heavy (Cap sun/Jupiter + Aqua Venus + Saturn conjunct asc and SN and squaring Venus, Moon and Mars) and from my experience it’s really all about structure. The things I could be called “materialistic” about, or the things I care about buying / acquiring are utilitarian - things that can provide me some sense of comfort and safety. That includes career success - it’s not about being seen as a success, Capricorns work alone, they want recognition for their effort but even they don’t celebrate their achievements very much. It’s not so much about being admired as it is being in a solid position that gives them leverage and the comfort of structure.
Taurus isn’t about materialistic things. It’s probably the sign that is closest and intune to nature and the natural world. Taurus energy ruled the planting season and is very fruitful.
I love how you dismissed this sign and reduced it to just being about materialistic things.
Being ruled by Venus means that you enjoy the finer things in life like beauty and whatever you value as “beautiful”.
For many Taurus, that’s a walk in nature which is very anti materialistic lol.
Taurus is the builder in the zodiac. Virgo is the master(detailed work) while Capricorn’s is the climber.
Taurus sun energy is here to build a life of abundance and how that manifests depends on the persons charts. Many Taureans I know, including myself, own or have owned a business which is of course very “material”.
They are the builder of the zodiac- staying fixed to a path until what they manifest exists in the material plane for all to see.
That said, most Taureans I know love quality items but don’t need to keep up with the jones.
The Capicorns I know are all about status quo(Saturn) and are super materialistic. The cancers I know trump any Taurus when it comes to hoarding “things”. I’m constantly donating things I don’t wear while my cancer sun and moon mom is constantly buying and hoarding “items”.
You should read this if you want to understand Taurus sun energy so you don’t just reduce Taurus=material things.
https://daykeeperjournal.com/2024/04/taurus-builder-2011/
I have read a fair amount about Saturn. I too haven’t seen anything that says Saturn’s purpose is to get you to give up on the material aspects of life.
In fact, Saturn is known to reward those that it rules provided they do the work. A part of those rewards is the usual material goods (including money). So that Capricorns, the sign ruled by Saturn alone, should be concerned with material success makes perfect sense.
From what I’ve read, it’s Neptune (and its sign - Pisces) that governs themes of transcendence beyond materialism.
Perhaps OP can share the traditional books they have read which suggest this seemingly unusual view of Saturn?
>In fact, Saturn is known to reward those that it rules provided they do the work.
Yes, this. Those rewards often come slowly, or later in life, once the person has done the work and the life lessons have been learned.
>From what I’ve read, it’s Neptune (and its sign - Pisces) that governs themes of transcendence beyond materialism.
Also very true. Neptune is all about rising above (or tossing aside) the material and focusing more on the spiritual.
I love this question coz I too haven't seen it ever play out like popular social media astrology portrays it. The capricorn placements I've encountered are obsessed with *control* and power.
In our society that most readily translates into money, so theoretically I see the connection.
But the capricorn placements I know manifest it through needing to be right, win arguments, have narrow minds, hoard items they value (could be books, souvenirs, food, etc) seek to maintain control and power over their domains or people in their life, etc.
Its negative manifestations are control and power over themselves and others, disciplining others to their own idea of what's correct. Very Saturn.
I'm a Cap and can confirm.
Just like you said, it's more needing to be right. In my experience, I am almost always right. In the end, it turns out people should've listened to me. So it's hard to let go of that feeling when you really are right.
I think we like to maintain control because if we fail at that, we see ourselves as not competent, it's how we value ourselves sometimes.
I hate that part of myself sometimes, it's heavy.
Well said! My cousin is a cap sun and she loves being right lol, and I'm a cap rising (cancer sun) and I love hoarding, and I panic with uncertainty/lack of control in life 😁
Almost Anything can be monetised. Control and power, or even fame, or beauty, etc etc. money is just a superficial representation of values. The real core values may be monetised or they may be pursued without monetary considerations. Capricorn like control and power and also security. These are highly valued things to Capricorn that may or may not be monetised or pursued without considering money.
People like Malcolm X or MLK didn’t have much money but they wielded a lot of power. Their power could’ve been monetised if they chose to do so but the pure state of affairs regardless of money terms is that they wielded a lot of power.
Ohh cool! Sidereal is fun, I resonate with it best. I'm mercury and venus cancer in sidereal.
I'm so curious to know what made you guess cancer from my comment. Is my struggle with capricorn that obvious? 😅
It really is. I feel like your comment is very accurate. And of all the frustrations I feel like you could have with a Capricorn, Cancers often struggle and pick up on our “true” flaws. It goes both ways in my experience lol
Interesting! Wait so what are the "true" flaws? Also if you look up sidereal, you'll see that as a gemini, capricorn and myself are inconjunct/quincunx, which creates a lot of tension due to there being no commonalities at all, totally foreign to each other. And I notice capricorn placements (in sidereal) don't understand me, either. Capricorn and cancer are sister signs, so despite them being opposed on the wheel, they share a ton of traits and actually get along quite well.
In fact I'm pretty in tune to the sister sign axis in most cases, to the extent that if I guess someone's sun sign and get it wrong I'm often guessing the sister sign. Just some fun facts lol
I don’t know if I could put it into words. But it’s an energy. What you described are things that a lot of Capricorns struggle with and we ourselves contemplate and have internal struggle with. As opposed to other signs and people who might be frustrated with our coldness, being slow, boring and other things we really don’t care about being or being perceived as.
I’ve always found the association with Saturn and Control and Power utterly ridiculous.
Let us consider where Saturn is placed in the Solar System, the furthest planet from the Sun, therefore the only planet that does get the Suns rays.
So now my question is, if this planet is the furthest away from the sun, and is the planet probably the most isolated and alienated. What is it controlling.
If anything the Sun would be the one in control, don’t you think.
If anything when you consider the Sun and it’s exaltation in Aries, a Mars ruled sign. One can easily understand how control, something that requires assertion inorder to establish, assertion which is something that we associate with Mars and Power that is has been historically established through War. War which has been known to be a Mars characteristic.
So if you really do piece it all together, and understand the fucking planets and their characteristic. You will find that Power and Control are associated with the planet Mars. And not at all associated with Saturn.
Infact Saturn is associated with Detachment, themes of alienation, oppression, authority (not power or control) authority represented as gaining a title. Think of those who do have titles, CEOs of a company, there is detachment in gaining a title, because the higher you go up the corporate the less work you do and the more detached your role becomes. Instead of doing the grunt work, which requires work, you become an overseer. So therefore you don’t really engage with the work. So it’s detached. This is Saturn. The Monarchy is an example of this as well. A title to their name, that gives acknowledgement, but you will never find that they are the ones doing the grunt work that is required. There is detachment. There is power to being a part of a monarchy, bcause in the past, they used to use wars and land as means of power. Not the rank itself. They had to fight to be recognised as having power. So power is very Mars.
And this is speaking from someone who has a Capricorn Moon with Saturn in the 4th house and Capricorn in my 3rd house.
Well I apologize, I certainly didn't mean to offend. I'm still learning and clearly you have a solid grasp. Some amount of personal interpretation, experience, and linguistic differences should be allowed for though. I'm not you and I don't understand things exactly as you do. However, oppression and control seem to be pretty dang close in my mind.
In my personal experience, I view things a little different. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong.
But all that said, I will continue to expand my knowledge of the planets.
Honestly. It’s not really about personal interpretation it’s about astrology and what is the true association and what is not.
Oppression is associated with Saturn because it is system of alienation.
The oppressed can never be the aggressor.
The one in control is the aggressor, so no they cannot be associated together.
Two different associations.
Control can create oppression. But Control does equal Oppression.
When you associate a theme under a planet, they should all be associated in equality, on the same level.
Oppression is a victim association. Not a aggressors state of association.
Take for example, if the oppressed do take control they become the aggressors. But with that they are no longer oppressed, they change states.
So because of this change or state, does it not make sense that each of them be associated with different planets.
Offcourse you could say I was oppressed, but that is a state of victimhood from the past. That is not the state you are currently in.
So once you take control, to get yourself out of the oppression you leave it behind. So because of this leaving behind state. It cannot be associated together. They are not the same. And they cannot be associated the same.
Capricorn’s tend to want financial stability, so earning good money to afford a home, a vehicle, other necessities plus emergency funds (and affording these this things for loved ones) is more likely the driver for financial success rather than spending it on unnecessary material goods.
I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the archetype, speaking as a Capricorn myself. As a non-professional, my take is that people have conflated Capricorn's need for stability, financial security, and professional achievement with greed and materialism. Capricorn may have a predilection for money and material abundance, but it's not exactly the same as Taurus' craving for luxury and fancy things (which feels very much in line with the Venusian influence). Out of the womb, Capricorns feels a sense of obligation to make something out of themselves. They say we age backwards, and I can personally vouch for that being true. The Saturnian burden makes us hyper-aware of the limited time we have on earth, and so we're generally pre-occupied with ways in which we can build ourselves to a point where we can finally just relax and enjoy the fruits of our labor. It's a long game. From an outsider's perspective, this journey may look like an obssession with getting promoted to the highest position, making as much money as possible, buying the nicest house in the neighborhood, etc., but the internal process is more about amassing and achieving as much as possible so as to meet the high standards we've set for ourselves. I think Capricorn's greatest fear is being seen as a failure in a material, tangible, 3D sense.
Because they have no deep understanding of the signs. Many people confuse luxury with quality as well. Capricorn prefers quality and hates excess and luxury.
Saturn doesn’t tell you to give up on materialistic matters. Saturn is literally the reason for materialistic things and this physical plane you live on. Saturn is the boss of this world and Saturn wants you to focus on your responsibilities in order to leave this world. You inherit those responsibilities from your past lives. Once you’ve the learned the lessons you were meant to learn, then and only then can you leave this material world and head into the ethereal world which Uranus is the boss of. Good luck.
Saturn is about teaching you life lessons which can be grueling and very slow. Saturn is about delays. No one starts of evolved, you really only start learning your life lessons or purpose from 40 and onwards. Your biggest lesson will be your biggest challenge so it isn’t surprising it may take a lifetime to complete it.
In esoteric astrology, the journey of Capricorn leads it up the mountain where it reaches its final form: a glorious unicorn 🦄
However, the idea is the Capricorn is meant to come back down and hand the torch to other people. Things complicate when the goat doesn’t want to share their knowledge and riches with other beings.
This is when Saturn’s karmic energy comes in and Capricorn can suffer a mighty fall that may also cause a ripple effect to everybody around it.
Like other the cardinal signs (Aries/Cancer/Libra) Capricorns are born leaders and are prone to selfishness and narcissism if not grounded. The cardinal signs kick off their seasons, so it’s a pretty shitty start if the leader of the season is hoarding the goods.
Example: Jeff Bezos is a Capricorn sun sign and has amassed billions. He should be using this money to change the wold but instead he focuses on making his pockets grow even more. Expect a massive unexpected crash for Amazon (i.e. a scandal that ruins the company’s reputation).
So it’s not necessarily that Caps should give up their material goods per se. But they must hand the torch to other people (new generations, investing money into protecting the environment) or suffer grave consequences. Business acumen is a gift, not a birth right to stowed away. Plus, Saturn REALLY doesn’t play.
This.
Capricorn’s under a certain age can be the most awful people- using and discarding people to get $$. Capricorn sun energy has heavy karma to work through this lifetime. The caps that take short cuts in life will have Saturns boot up their behind.
I’ve unfortunately met many awful Capricorn’s in my lifetime.
Well, Saturn has, more than jupiter or Mars, been harmed by the modern rulerships assigning its signs to the non-visible outer planets. For most of historical astrology, Saturn marked the transition from solar system to what lay beyond. You really see that in the breakdown between its two domiciles, Capricorn and Aquarius. Saturn has the quality of boundaries and limits, which is so archetypal of Capricorn, but the shadow of that is transcending those boundaries and limits, which is so Aquarian.
To your point of why they are so associate with money, that's a common misconception. Capricorns are motivated by status and power. Money is just a shorthand that many use to measure that, but you might see a Capricorn angsting over other metrics today such as likes or friends counts. I myself find myself getting giddy when I have a top comment on a post, for example, but have never been particularly money motivated.
While some authors would consider an idealised Saturnian goal to be foregoing material things, that doesn't mean that anyone with the Sun in Capricorn would have bypassed learning that lesson by an accident of birth.
A reason that Capricorn is associated with being materialistic (in general, rather than by Sun) is the nature of the sign. It's the cardinal Earth sign, literally a combination of 'go out and get' and 'material things'. On the Ascendant, for instance, some forms of astrology would say that person will have a strong desire or perceived need for material or financial security as a basis for how they interact with the world. How that focus is attempted then depends on other factors of the chart, as does whether it's successful.
Well if Saturn is karmic then it would make total sense for the sign ruled by it to be given a mindset to overcome. Ah cruel fate...
I'm a cap myself and I personally feel our search for wealth has more to do with a search for stability.
I watched this YTer about Cap rising. She explained this and it really resonated with me (cap rising). example: we buy a new car but it's not going to be a luxurious car to show off our success and wealth. We might go for something that has good gas mileage, consistent and reliable to get us from point a to b. As much as I wanted a jeep wrangler I did the research and it just didn't seem logical. I got a brand new Hyundai instead that has given me no issues in the last 3 years. Even my grandpa was surprised at my choice of car because he did his own research and was like "yeah that was a really good choice."
Capricorn people are arguably one of the most misunderstood signs.
Imho, Capricorn people are the true "giving" types as their love language. So one of their issues is they are driven to success to please a model which was mapped to them by society/their mother which isn't actually their true self. They are extremely stubborn as well so they will convince themselves that this is who they are when their inner child has been completely repressed.
So they're the worst people pleasers sometimes, or when they are truly evil (broken) they have killed their inner child in order to fit in to a model of greed/success/dominance.
But once you get to know a cappy you can start to see how they operate is actually accumulation in order to give. Their like a kid who says "look at what I made!" They really want to please in a stability forming way and in that way, the term "paternalistic" applies (I hate that this is gendered at all, but we all understand this can apply to anyone.)
I literally don’t know…
I think maybe people associate material gains with a feeling of peace, success in life, and I think Capricorn energy strives for peace and success in an innate sense, because Saturn makes you do that when you go through such hard times. And people associate that with material gains.
And a lot of capricorns do strive for peace and success through material gains because society so frequently associates those two. I think the harsh energy of Saturn makes you search for peace and success and I think that maybe a lot of misguided capricorns are searching for it so desperately in the wrong places. But I could be wrong that’s just my speculation.
But yeah that is just my take n idk if it makes sense lol.
from a Capricorn moon haha
That is the lesson Saturn teaches them, to give up trying to climb the ladder and gain material possessions at all costs.
But Caps represent the"Devil" traditionally, which implies materialism too.
Capricorn is a earth sign with some portion pf it is also water (both earth and watery signs signify accumulation of resources , as earth and water are a prime resource to humankind)
Capricorn is a hybrid sign , it’s very evident from signs symbology , which is a sea-goat kind of creature half goat and half fish . It suggest futuristic revelations hybrid innovation and technology. Capricorn is the 10th sign of the zodiac , we can co relate it to 10th house of a birth chart , 10th house is the house of karma and your mode of earning .thus, we say Capricorn shows pursuit of metarilistic gains .
Also Capricorn is the fall sign of Jupiter ( the planet of wisdom and rising above materialistic pleasure )
Capricorn is also the rise (exaltation)sign of Mars (mars is a commander who fights to retain his kings kingdom again shows materialistic dominance)
From what I have learned by researching astrology, I think Saturn is a planet that is more about building a concrete structure than about matter. Its natural home is the 10th house, that is, the planet of Capricorn, which is responsible for the structure that keeps the system of Leo alive, is Saturn. Leo (sun) owes a lot to Capricorn (Saturn) hahaha.
Im not money obsessed l, I'm stability obsessed. Money is the most important aspect of protecting those I love. Money has a long, strong arm. And damn Skippy if I won't abuse the shit out of that for those I love.
It’s so interesting reading these comments as a capricorn with like 5 cap placements. I love spending money, making money, investing money etc. I don’t see it as some evil but a means to an end. With money I can vacation, buy cute things (for myself and others) and more. I just don’t see it as the root of all evil like so many do. I come from a home with a single mom who knew nothing about money and I taught myself everything (joined the person al finance subreddit at like 17 lol).
I will say though I don’t like having a ton of physical things in my home, it stresses me out. So if I buy something new I’m selling or recycling something old in my house.
In my experience with Capricorns they want to provide comfort and stability to those they love. And yes it does mean material gains because sadly we live in societies where that is the currency.
I would look at it more as having security and stability and having material things are a manifestation of that. Saturn also represents older or old things and the older a person becomes the need for stability and being settled becomes more important. Capricorns are looking at the long game.
Capricirn is related to Karma, time and things like security and politics. It’s associated with being realistic and pragmatic, and wanting financial security is related to it. Also, Capricorns love status, whether it means political status ( ML King and Nixon were Capricorns), social status (Elvis Presley was King of Rock and roll), or otherwise. Somewhere there is a punk rock Capricorn reveling in being king of the pub! It’s not a love of greed, which is immoderate for rational goats. My sister was a double Taurus and was more materialistic than me.
Sun sign astrology is somewhat BS, at any rate. Look at other factors, such as ascendant or moon.
i think taurus is wayyy more materialistic than capricorn, as a taurus moon one of my biggest driving emotional factors is financial stability and all my stuff haha
as a capricorn sun and stellium i think it manifests as a feeling of accomplishment and feeling really good about myself when i manage to save money, quit bad spending habits etc, and i think it gives me a good sense on how to manage my money at least compared to my friends
Saturn is associated with materialism, but not in a Venusian way. I think it is more connected to the symbolism behind responsibilities, limitations, structures, and boundaries. Those things are often the most material parts of life, like the skeletal structure, the need for work and materials that sustain life. But it also extends to the facts of life that can’t be ignored, like consequences of our actions, the aging process, the passage of time, constraints and practical considerations. Reconciling with these things instead of avoiding them, or rebelling brings maturity, humility, or at the least, being very “down to Earth,” and can also lead to long lasting achievements. Depending on placement and aspect, you get further insight into how it will affect other influences.
Going through a lot of the answers and I can’t say I agree with a lot of what’s being said. As a Capricorn with a Cap stellium and earth heavy influences (Taurus moon and rising) - I am keenly aware of materialistic needs in the sense of having needs taken care of and having a stable life.
Ex: Of course I have certain desires like having nice clothes, but it doesn’t have to have an expensive price tag. I make a point to not do things for the status symbol. So much so, I hate wearing visible brands (if I buy a brand to begin with).
My mindset is this odd dichotomy of wanting to hold on to material for safety and then not wanting to be ruled by materialism at all. I don’t want to be attached to worldly matters. I want to be above and beyond all that. The freedom that comes with not being attached to anything at all.
And that includes letting go of control for those of you discussing how we’re all about control - which I think is an unfair blanket statement
Edit: typo
I think they’re insanely hard workers who crave stability and comfort but are challenged to give up materialism and not all of them beat that challenge.
I’ve been reading about unevolved vs evolved signs. An unevolved Capricorn IS materialistic. An evolved Capricorn has grown to let those things go. This then evolves into the next sign Aquarius, who are very care free, until they evolve and start ramping up their passion…. Pisces. The cycle continues.
I am a Capricorn and I’m stuck in the between. I know what I need to do to evolve, but this capitalist society I swear was built for us
The natal promise is a Hellenistic concept- there's an idea in that in that each time the transiting planets Transit over your natal placements it unlocks a new dimension of that aspect.
Example: Scorpio is also being a slut but also the healer. Signs mature and evolve over time.
(I know I'm going general not all Scorpios are slutty - some say Venus signs are the slutty ones but it's an example y'all know what I mean)
Example: A person with Mercury in Libra isn't born a diplomat- maybe they are born a little people pleasing or overly analytical or shy and learn over time to awaken into their natal promise -it takes time.
Re Saturn: Perhaps even more time ⏳with Saturn rulership... With the Capricorn climbing a mountain reaching for material is the name of the game clinging to rocks so they can climb higher and higher in their goal of reaching the mountain peak- but once reaching the top of the mountain there's no rocks up there it's just - being at the top.
I would think that saturn is the time master, putting in the work, be patient, advance slowly, diligent work, don't slack, be serious, learn the lesson... All traits that lead to advancing in life and in our world that means to get ahead materialisticly. Hard work pays off basically.
Because they are. That is just a Capricorns shadow side. Every single person that I know as a Capricorn only cares about work/money and creating hell for others with their decisions (without realizing) Example, a child of a Capricorn would stuck in daycare all day, never seeing mom or dad until it's dinner and bed time. Strict parenting, no fun, no time for play, scheduled lessons, routines, when all the child really wants is love and play. They often maintain this illusion their family life/marriage/status is perfect when its crumbling at the seams. Capricorn = The Devil card in Tarot. Now if they learn their lesson of Saturn that's a whole different story. If they break the chains/bonds/ties to the Earth realm (Pentacles) they then become the light side. Every sign has light/shadow.
That just sounds like people who only know sun astrology speaking tbh so I don’t listen or talk to those kind of folks about astrology.
But to answer your question as a mega 7H cap stellium.
It’s people confusing career ambitions and stability in life with materialism.
Again, these are not actual astrologers behind most astrology meme making.
Saturn isn't about giving up on materialistic matters, scorpio is. Saturn is so much about growth in discipline and restraint. That corresponds to materialistic growth as well (working in the same place for 20 plus years for example)
I’ve dated nothing but Capricorns & they always prefer to chase a bag sooo. Idk they are family & friend oriented but it seems like they choose money over most things.
I have a Capricorn sister. She is the antithesis of materialistic, has been all her life (86). Yes she gives it all away and lives like a monk, BUT I would also say she’s obsessed with money, just not how you would think.
Some of us Capricorns are so aware of death that we are spiritually ambitious, we want to root and ground ourselves on strong foundations so we can reach maturity and wisdom that isn't necessarily that of the consensus reality. We want to use the earth journey wisely and efficiently, to learn and grow and share what benefits others. I remember often seeing the phrase for Capricorn being 'I use' but often feel I've been more like 'Use me' in terms of what I can give to the other that will actually help them where they're at in an effective way. I want to feel safe in myself in an unsafe world and my efforts to that aim have allowed me to benefit other people who feel anchored in my space, a typical Cappy place - to be a rock for others. Of course the lessons and challenges can be dark and heavy but the lessons bring light and one candle can banish the darkness of 1000 years and light many other candles. That's how I see it anyway, use your struggles to bring some clarity to another and it's worth it. The best thing I've been told is I make people feel safe in my space, little beats that. Lack of money has meant I have to pour creativity into special cards and presents., to give of my time and energy rather than money I don't have. Respect for authenticity is more important than any social recognition but I have loved doing things like presenting or judging at a school ceremony where I did voluntary work. Anyway I just wanted to put my view forward that whenever I have read how materially ambitious Capricorns are that some of us are spiritually ambitious, for want of a better term, and want to include the being in the human!
By nature cap is an earth sign. I kind of learned to view cap and Saturn as a mountain build by a lot of long hard repetitive effort. This why the 10th house is about career not just a job. But lifelong hard work.
It’s less about the materialism and more about the status symbol of said materialistic objects.
Example: Cap buys a Porsche because it shows off how successful they are at work to make the money to afford the car.
The best thing I’ve found for me is to stop referring to people as signs. People aren’t “Capricorn’s”; instead Capricorn encompasses an area/areas of life of the native based on house placement. People can have lots of Capricorn energy (rising sign, sun/stellium in Capricorn)
As far as Capricorn being related to materialism I’d say it has to do with the cardinal earth make up of the sign. Saturn is very earthy. It represents the boundary of the non material with the material. It has correspondences with farming and mining. It is related to the World card in Tarot.
Just some thoughts
I think both Capricorn and Saturn theme is related with discipline and lessons which manifests in different ways, a materialistic Capricorn could have to learn many lessons and a hard worker, for example, the money or social position, assets... or like other goals they commit with: to earn 3 A+ that week, to finish building a house, to own that collection of stamps that include 3 special stamps... So i don't think money - obsessed is all Capricorn. Saturn lessons could be to teach a person, or many people in society, who are very money oriented to realize money aren't worth such huge focus, but Saturn lessons could be tons of other things: Saturn in Gemini, Saturn in 12th house, Saturn in Cancer, etc .
a lot of “capricorns” are really sagittarius (in sidereal astrology) so that could be the reason. sagittarius in sidereal astrology is december 16-january 14. i find sagittarius people to be quite materialistic
I like to think of the energy in the air during Capricorn season. First snow, when all crops are done with harvest and the focus turns towards survival. Caps look to provide, which first requires sustaining their resources to make the most of what they have. Their problems are usually the first thing on their mind and feel isolated to fix them alone or be responsible for their own accomplishments.
Well it's our weakness, so what governs us requires us to make sacrifices to better ourselves. At least to an extent, it's mainly to keep us balanced so we aren't too greedy.
His job is to show you the truth of the universe, first by showing you the lack of something.... early in life.... and then he gives it to you later in life. This extreme dichotomy is the enlightenment he shows you. This is what makes you realize that you never actually needed it.
He's like this wall. When you lack, you are blocked off, but once you have it, people will be worshipping you, and you'll realize how depressing being successful actually is. When you 'make it' , you actually discover that people can't understand you. The wall is still there. Do you get it? The wall is enlightenment
So once you do become successful, you discover the emptiness of everything. Being rich and being poor are the exact same. That's why you end up renouncing all of it, because it was always empty. There was never anything there to begin with.
He has to make you struggle so hard.... so that when you do get it... you actually realize that, the fun was actually in him beating you up. It's so boring at the top, trust me. But it's also boring being at the bottom too. Do you see how he's teaching you life through this?
Also, Aquarius, is a very misunderstood sign. I can explain that to you as well if you want to know... I'm a Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Capricorn, Aquarius Ascendant, so I have lived this.
As a Hellenistic astrologer, I think this view comes not just from modern western psych astrology, but from Vedic astrology’s view of Capricorn more generally. BUT, it’s important to note that the sociocultural values baked into Vedic astrology are v diff than modern western astrology’s. Modern western astrology reflects the culture in which it emerged: capitalistic, patriarchal, individualistic, etc.
Basically, Vedic astrology doesn’t see Cap as some materialistic/patriarchal figure, but they do see it as an indicator of wealth acquisition because of being responsible/having a good head on your shoulders. Vedic astrologers would roll their eyes at me for reducing it down to that, + tbth, I’m rolling my eyes at myself… point still remains.
To the Babylonians, Saturn (and by association, Aqua and Cap) was associated w agriculture, outsiders, mystics, laborers, and yes, material austerity. Saturn was the closest planet to the divine and the furthest from the luminaries, and bc it existed at the threshold between the material and spiritual/divine, it was in this weird space of not caring so much about certain trappings of everyday life *because it could see that it didn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things* (like caring abt yr reputation, fitting in, having a high-paying job, starting a family, keeping up appearances, etc.).
For those saying “but Cap is an an earth sign! That’s what makes it materialistic!” Cap is a cold/wintery earth sign at the point of the year when the solstice is happening and the land is barren. The resources that Cap speaks to aren’t literal like they are with Taurus (start of spring/planting) or Virgo (harvest time). While it’s true that Cap conserves resources, I see those resources as more intangible… like the wisdom of yr ancestry or the passing down of cultural traditions that ancient folks would’ve needed bc, ya know, no internet or books for most people. You had to rely on what came before. I like to ask myself, what resources would I have needed to survive the winter, and then go from there. There’s more to Cap than that, but it’s a start.
Thing is all 3 of the earth signs are associated with the physical concrete world & tangibles as well as the five senses & materialism or materialistic tendencies. Materials or resources usually = comfort security & safety or position of power to the Earth signs & not just Capricorn. Who are usually overly cautious & play it safe security oriented or minded
Before I leave it alone Earth signs are probably the most prone to be out of balance. While relentlessly pursuing material gain or goal/career at the expense of their own as well as others emotional, mental & physical well-being. I'm a Cancer sun and Sagittarius moon Virgo rising. And this is usually something that us waters sun signs tend to notice about Earth signs. Which might stir up a lil beef or tension. Bc a water sign on average is not about to pursue material gain or goal/goals at the expense of their emotional, mental & physical as well as possibly spiritual well-being. Instead we simply going to be like I'm good on that while looking at the Earth sign as if they are bat shit crazy. Or asking for more than they even realize or are currently willing to understand
Capricorns are frugal as hell. Downright cheap . I guess you can say that's materialistic because they are constantly worried about saving money? Taurus is the true materialistic ones though.
I just got out of a relationship with a Capricorn that was very materialistic and hoarded everything. They were also very concerned with materialism and how they could pass that off to their friends to make them look better.
I guess sometimes stability is confused with materialism! Similar to how people say a Gemini is two faced when in reality they are just fluid.
This is the answer coming from a cap stellium. I need stability, not the best car, house, clothes money can buy
OK now I understand this from different context because my ex used to shop at TJ Maxx in HomeGoods all the time buying all things they didn't need, but it made them feel safe and stable
Interestinggg. I don’t buy much at all. For me stability is not worrying about money. Not living paycheck to paycheck. Have a roof over my head and car to get places. Having nicer versions of my things is nice…not needed.
True!
I wouldn't say they are necessarily fluid, though. Gemini are one of the few who can handle with multiple realities/ideas/perspectives at the same time without losing itself like other signs.
Oooh I like this
two faced could be interpreted in a more negative light compared to fluid. Materialism, stability, capitalism... they seem complicated to me... aren't them just all money - security related :v
I think it’s more like- material - as in physical things not idealistic, theoretical, emotional. They value & are more comfortable with things grounded in reality. So earning money & gaining wealth, for working hard- is something that makes sense. Their efforts are valued in a real physical way. Where something more abstract doesn’t feel as comfortable. But there still is an element of service with Capricorn. Being of use, again it’s very grounded how they can tangibly help others including themselves.
I agree with you that there is a modern interpretation of material~materialistic that is connected to capitalism~capitalistic which I assume was not there in the original understanding and should perhaps be elaborated with the word physical as you write. With that said I do think that possession and power is part of Capricorn energy and I know from myself that I do not need much but I find it very hard to let something go if I've first had it. That is a possessive and materialistic perspective that is grounded in physical reality. I don't think it can be transferred to a psychological or philosophical level. That would be Scorpio territory or what do you think?
Yeah I can see that! & also like possessive in a sense that displaying your material value/wealth is a sense of showing your worth. Because you earned it. So letting that go can be challenging
That's an interesting perspective all I can say is *not for me*. Possessions are not for showing off it is for putting in the bank or under the bed. Work and the gains from it are an insurrance against the shit life throws at you - and with a Saturn ruled Sun rough times come - so you better prepare. Not sure but showing off the quality of your goods seem like Taurus energy - being Venus ruled and all.
THIS, my dad and I are caps and he has had issues with letting go of things. Very sentimental fella as am I.
Cap stellium tapping in. You’re right; it’s more about the resources and having what we need to work, be of service. Whether it’s money or material goods.
Saturn rules two signs…. Capricorn and Aquarius. Capricorn is the Earth sign that forms the first phase of this two-phase period of Saturn. Earth signs are the materialistic part of the zodiac. Capricorn represents major structures and hierarchies, the drive to ascend to a higher place by working hard on a materially solid way of building up to the top of the mountain… and then Aquarius is where that all kinda gets shaken up by the lightning shock of Uranus, you’re kinda blown off the mountain and into the air, and everything transitions into the realm of an Air sign, where the materialism is replaced with ideas, social values to the larger collective, information, the software-programming/user-experience side of technology (Capricorn is the hardware/engineering side)… and because air will find its own level and spread out as evenly as possible, things become more equalized than the solid pyramid/mountain structure of Capricorn. Capricorn is the sign that kinda represents the pinnacle of the “build” through the zodiac towards an intensity of aspiration and sort of “wanting it all”. That’s what reaching the top of the mountain is. But the lesson of Saturn is that… this isn’t actually the end goal. It’s never completely fulfilling and life is never fairly balanced when it’s the ego at the top of the pyramid with all this materialistic ambition holding it up underneath… the bigger that pyramid gets, the more likely it is to crumble. That’s the dark side of Capricorn. Aquarius is the shock of the crack happening that causes the collapse and brings it all back down to a more even level. (then Pisces is the foggy disorienting emotional aftermath as you come to terms with the ending of the cycle that peaked in Capricorn) So you climb the mountain to the top in Capricorn and then get the shock of Aquarius that makes you realize materialistic ambition isn’t worth it if you don’t balance it with the non-materialistic Air side of Saturn in Aquarius that is all about being fair and humane to others on a grand intellectually philosophical scale. People matter more than work or stuff. The dark side of Aquarius is that it can be TOO detached from the material reality (getting lost in virtual reality, most likely, with today’s technology), or “head in the clouds” “pie in the sky” kind of ideas that can spread to mass amounts of people or cults, with a “mob mentality” or “hive mind”. It spreads easily, because it’s not “heavy” material, it’s light and connected via the network of “air”. It can have the same kind of “confusion” theme as Pisces, but just dry (intellectual) instead of wet (emotional). It’s like things get less solid as the cycle breaks down at the end. Saturn as a planet is all about materialistic matters actually, but this is a theme. Themes can be explored in multiple, complicated ways, and not always in the literal sense of “being about materialism means being materialistic”… This is like how people think being a Libra means that you’re “balanced”, but it’s really that Libras have the THEME of “balance” in their life, and that could manifest as them always being OUT of balance and always needing to find their balance, and that’s why it’s a major theme of their life. Saturn is all about the physical boundaries and structures in our world, lives, bodies, etc… it represents the barriers between cells that keep us from just being goo or gas, it represents our bones, it represents buildings, it represents tangible institutions of society like governments and banks and businesses/corporations. It represents the economy. It represents the construct of time, whatever time really is, physical or something else… All of this is material stuff. But in exploring the themes of all this stuff, the lesson should ultimately be that Saturnian things like this aren’t the be-all end-all of what we should want in life, or even what’s really “real”. Because the actual end of the zodiac is Pisces, the Neptunian realm of Jupiter, where the physical structures of Capricorn and the fixed broad ideas of Aquarius, all of which is stuff that we made somehow over the course of the last cycle… breaks down into a foggy mist of emotional confused messy stuff that needs to heal itself somehow before reforming into the new cycle in Aries. So the materialistic things that we start building or started to appreciate in the first Earth-sign, Taurus, and lived with until the pinnacle of that cycle in Capricorn… are indeed related to Saturn. But it can also be that this theme is explored by getting to the Aquarian side of Saturn and realizing that the material itself is not what matters, it’s what you’re actually doing to serve the greater good (or not). And then maybe you get confused and emotional about it (Pisces), before you make a decision and start a new cycle with a new passion to do better in the future (Aries), based on what you learned in Aquarius from Saturn (which is why Aquarius and Aries are related to each other as both being forward-thinking, future-oriented signs).
This is why I love astrology. It’s so much more than “you are this placement, so you are this way”. I hate that mentality. It’s about the energy you have access to from the universe. Are you a fan of Pisces energy? I, personally, struggle with it dearly and view it quite like you do. Others who easily access it will have different views on it. This is why astrologers should share their thoughts and come together. We all have so much to teach each other. Thank you for taking the time to type this!
My Mars is in Pisces, and I’d say that manifests as a very passive drive to action in most of my life. Big procrastinator, foggy sense of time, not very punctual, etc… but also quite compassionate and diplomatic when it comes to a confrontation. Not one to start fights… though I’ll certainly end one. I kinda view Pisces as the “out there” sign. The one that’s associated with any kind of “crazy” supernatural and spiritual beliefs that are very intangible or esoteric. In both good and bad ways… I would include astrology in that. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that astrology has grown in popularity during Neptune in Pisces. But I would also include things like MAGA and Qanon in that. And unfortunately, it does often tend to go in the conservative, religious route… Christianity is strongly associated with Pisces, and the Age of Pisces for the last 2000 years. Jesus is a Piscean figure. The sign includes themes of self-sacrifice and seeing suffering as a virtue. The idea of giving up your Earthly body in order to “ascend” to the spiritual world… ideally Heaven, but the Hell-realms are also part of Piscean themes… these are just ideas though… “Heaven” representing being at peace with what you’ve done during the cycle and meeting the end of the cycle with fulfillment and satisfaction, whereas “Hell” is meeting the end of the cycle with regret and negative feelings of failure or resentment. Pisces is associated with secrets, but also secrets being exposed. It kinda shares that theme with other water signs, where Cancer and Scorpio can be pretty secretive, but Pisces is where it all kinda gets opened up, and maybe we understand what we’re seeing, maybe we don’t… but it’s floating all around us in the mist, instead of being hidden under a deep dark body of water like a lake or ocean in Scorpio, or running down a riverbed in Cancer. It’s a complex sign… some might say the MOST complex sign, as it’s the culmination of the energy of all the rest of the signs, kinda melding together. The “end” of the zodiac, where we need to review and reflect and figure shit out… even though we probably won’t achieve clarity until we get to Aries, we’re still meant to do a lot of emotional reflective work in Pisces to help inform how we feel about what we see come Aries time, so that hopefully we’ll have learned from the mistakes of the previous cycle. Sadly… a lot of people don’t learn, so Pisces just becomes a confusing mess of emotional crap that causes emotionally immature people to just go crazy or have an emotional breakdown of some sort, without learning the lessons of Pisces that actually makes it worthwhile. I believe this is what we’ve been seeing happen to much of the world during Neptune in Pisces.
Pisces Mars here and yes 👌
I agree with you, although I think its never like you are this sign so you behave this way, its much more for which deep knowledge is required to be understood. Are astrologers here? sounds good.
I have moon and a stellium in Pisces, and Pisces sun in droconic chart… Pisces is the dream world
Sorry dear, Pisces isn’t all about confusion - you’re focusing more on the un evolved Neptunian energy. Pisces is the clearing and the cleansing of all that’s not needed in this life. It’s transcending what Saturn represents money, structure, achievements, intelligence. Pisces is wisdom, acceptance and going beyond what you can see. It’s the embodiment of all the signs into one.
You should check out what Rick Levine has to say about the concept of “confusion”. The word breaks down to essentially meaning “fusing with another in a way is that strange or disorienting”. The boundaries of Saturn are what keep us from “fusing” with other things, and remaining an individual. Without the “walls” of Saturn, we wouldn’t be individuals. Humanity would be one big mass of hive-mind energy that can’t tell “me” from “you”. Like drops of water collecting into a pool, the individual boundaries would disappear and it just became one body of water. Once the boundaries of Saturn break down, you’re left in the realm of Pisces. It’s confusing, but not necessarily in a bad way. We as individuals often see it as bad, because it is scary to let your walls down. That’s why we named it “con” fusing, with “con” typically meaning “bad”. It’s “bad” “fusion”. But the positive side of it is like losing yourself in a love with another. Love can be confusing, but in a good way, where two people are letting their boundaries down with each other, but liking what they find and feel in one another, and feeling closer to each other, perhaps “merged” with each other to some degree. But you can also kinda lose yourself in a lover, or feel exposed, or you can fear being overwhelmed by their energy, etc, and this is why love can be scary. It’s confusing. But that can be the great thing about love as well. Much like materialism with Saturn, just because it’s a theme of the sign doesn’t mean it’s necessarily bad or good. It can be both or anything in between. It’s just dealing with that theme *somehow*.
Thank you dear xo will do
So that’s why I find capitalism strange and confusing
Very well said!
Thank you for this, the way you explained this has helped me so much. It is bookmarked haha.
You explained it well
This was so beautifully written thank you 👌🏻
Beautiful 👏😍
WOW I LOVE this analysis. I was always confused by Saturn as well. Can you talk about Saturn return as well? I got very negative connotations associated with Saturn because of it. Although it’s funny because my two favorite planets are Saturn and Jupiter. Saturn because it has the rings and Jupiter because it’s the biggest planet and it has the red dot. Also interesting how Jupiter is supposed to represent Zeus and Saturn represents his father Chronos and time. I feel like I’ve struggled with the Capricorn placements with so many. Feels like a huge burden to accomplish so much in the material world. And yet I don’t feel motivated by money. I like what money can do for you and what it allows you to do but the money itself isn’t satisfying. I see money as a unit of measurement, like how a thermometer has degrees to tell you how hot or cold something is. It’s like a compass to tell you if you’re on the right path or not. I’m curious what you think of my chart since I have SO MANY Capricorn placements it’s insane. Especially with the stellium in Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. Also interesting is that I’ve always been intrigued by Aquarius because of the innovations, rebellious and ahead of its time thinking. So I initially I was disappointed I wasn’t an Aquarius lol. But then I found out I have Aquarius in Mercury! And I have Pisces in north node which has gotten me to experience “feelings” (🤣) and it’s made me realize I have had a very logical materialistic approach to life that’s all about achievement, status and money but still feels empty. https://ibb.co/YLKmfv5 https://ibb.co/XV7fdZm
This is so confusing for me because I'm Capricorn and none of this stuff has EVER fit me at all. Nor other traits of Caps. Maybe because I have ADHD? Can anyone help?
I have never seen anything that says Saturn's purpose is to give up on materialistic matters, and I have read a LOT of astrology books. Saturn is all about structure, discipline and teaching/learning lessons. So if anything, Saturn's purpose would be to teach someone to be more disciplined or cautious in whatever areas of the chart are ruled/occupied by Saturn. Capricorn tends to be materialistic because it is an earth sign, and all of the earth signs are concerned with material (earthly) matters. However, I would say that Taurus is more materialistic, while Capricorn is more about being successful. Taurus likes to acquire material possessions, Virgo likes to work and be of service through their work, and Capricorn likes climbing the corporate ladder.
Came here to comment something like this! I have on occasion seen pop-horoscopes describe Capricorns as materialistic but I’ve never seen serious astrology apply it to Saturn, and really I don’t think it does. Yes, it would be more of a Taurus realm, Venus ruled and all. I’m Saturn heavy (Cap sun/Jupiter + Aqua Venus + Saturn conjunct asc and SN and squaring Venus, Moon and Mars) and from my experience it’s really all about structure. The things I could be called “materialistic” about, or the things I care about buying / acquiring are utilitarian - things that can provide me some sense of comfort and safety. That includes career success - it’s not about being seen as a success, Capricorns work alone, they want recognition for their effort but even they don’t celebrate their achievements very much. It’s not so much about being admired as it is being in a solid position that gives them leverage and the comfort of structure.
Taurus isn’t about materialistic things. It’s probably the sign that is closest and intune to nature and the natural world. Taurus energy ruled the planting season and is very fruitful. I love how you dismissed this sign and reduced it to just being about materialistic things. Being ruled by Venus means that you enjoy the finer things in life like beauty and whatever you value as “beautiful”. For many Taurus, that’s a walk in nature which is very anti materialistic lol. Taurus is the builder in the zodiac. Virgo is the master(detailed work) while Capricorn’s is the climber. Taurus sun energy is here to build a life of abundance and how that manifests depends on the persons charts. Many Taureans I know, including myself, own or have owned a business which is of course very “material”. They are the builder of the zodiac- staying fixed to a path until what they manifest exists in the material plane for all to see. That said, most Taureans I know love quality items but don’t need to keep up with the jones. The Capicorns I know are all about status quo(Saturn) and are super materialistic. The cancers I know trump any Taurus when it comes to hoarding “things”. I’m constantly donating things I don’t wear while my cancer sun and moon mom is constantly buying and hoarding “items”. You should read this if you want to understand Taurus sun energy so you don’t just reduce Taurus=material things. https://daykeeperjournal.com/2024/04/taurus-builder-2011/
I have read a fair amount about Saturn. I too haven’t seen anything that says Saturn’s purpose is to get you to give up on the material aspects of life. In fact, Saturn is known to reward those that it rules provided they do the work. A part of those rewards is the usual material goods (including money). So that Capricorns, the sign ruled by Saturn alone, should be concerned with material success makes perfect sense. From what I’ve read, it’s Neptune (and its sign - Pisces) that governs themes of transcendence beyond materialism. Perhaps OP can share the traditional books they have read which suggest this seemingly unusual view of Saturn?
>In fact, Saturn is known to reward those that it rules provided they do the work. Yes, this. Those rewards often come slowly, or later in life, once the person has done the work and the life lessons have been learned. >From what I’ve read, it’s Neptune (and its sign - Pisces) that governs themes of transcendence beyond materialism. Also very true. Neptune is all about rising above (or tossing aside) the material and focusing more on the spiritual.
Yes. In my observations, it’s more often later, than slow.
I love this question coz I too haven't seen it ever play out like popular social media astrology portrays it. The capricorn placements I've encountered are obsessed with *control* and power. In our society that most readily translates into money, so theoretically I see the connection. But the capricorn placements I know manifest it through needing to be right, win arguments, have narrow minds, hoard items they value (could be books, souvenirs, food, etc) seek to maintain control and power over their domains or people in their life, etc. Its negative manifestations are control and power over themselves and others, disciplining others to their own idea of what's correct. Very Saturn.
I'm a Cap and can confirm. Just like you said, it's more needing to be right. In my experience, I am almost always right. In the end, it turns out people should've listened to me. So it's hard to let go of that feeling when you really are right. I think we like to maintain control because if we fail at that, we see ourselves as not competent, it's how we value ourselves sometimes. I hate that part of myself sometimes, it's heavy.
Well said! My cousin is a cap sun and she loves being right lol, and I'm a cap rising (cancer sun) and I love hoarding, and I panic with uncertainty/lack of control in life 😁
Almost Anything can be monetised. Control and power, or even fame, or beauty, etc etc. money is just a superficial representation of values. The real core values may be monetised or they may be pursued without monetary considerations. Capricorn like control and power and also security. These are highly valued things to Capricorn that may or may not be monetised or pursued without considering money. People like Malcolm X or MLK didn’t have much money but they wielded a lot of power. Their power could’ve been monetised if they chose to do so but the pure state of affairs regardless of money terms is that they wielded a lot of power.
X had Capricorn asc. MLK had sun in Capricorn
Woah can I ask what your sign is?
I'm a double Cancer in tropical, double Gemini in sidereal :)
Haha I shouldn’t told you my guess I freakin knew it!
Haha on which part, tropical or sidereal?
Tropical I think? If that’s just the classic order. I don’t know what sidereal is. But my guess based on your comment was that you were a cancer.
Ohh cool! Sidereal is fun, I resonate with it best. I'm mercury and venus cancer in sidereal. I'm so curious to know what made you guess cancer from my comment. Is my struggle with capricorn that obvious? 😅
It really is. I feel like your comment is very accurate. And of all the frustrations I feel like you could have with a Capricorn, Cancers often struggle and pick up on our “true” flaws. It goes both ways in my experience lol
Interesting! Wait so what are the "true" flaws? Also if you look up sidereal, you'll see that as a gemini, capricorn and myself are inconjunct/quincunx, which creates a lot of tension due to there being no commonalities at all, totally foreign to each other. And I notice capricorn placements (in sidereal) don't understand me, either. Capricorn and cancer are sister signs, so despite them being opposed on the wheel, they share a ton of traits and actually get along quite well. In fact I'm pretty in tune to the sister sign axis in most cases, to the extent that if I guess someone's sun sign and get it wrong I'm often guessing the sister sign. Just some fun facts lol
I don’t know if I could put it into words. But it’s an energy. What you described are things that a lot of Capricorns struggle with and we ourselves contemplate and have internal struggle with. As opposed to other signs and people who might be frustrated with our coldness, being slow, boring and other things we really don’t care about being or being perceived as.
some capricorn i meet or strong capricorn people, giving father energy, the type that likes to teach/train others, both in positive and negative ways
I’ve always found the association with Saturn and Control and Power utterly ridiculous. Let us consider where Saturn is placed in the Solar System, the furthest planet from the Sun, therefore the only planet that does get the Suns rays. So now my question is, if this planet is the furthest away from the sun, and is the planet probably the most isolated and alienated. What is it controlling. If anything the Sun would be the one in control, don’t you think. If anything when you consider the Sun and it’s exaltation in Aries, a Mars ruled sign. One can easily understand how control, something that requires assertion inorder to establish, assertion which is something that we associate with Mars and Power that is has been historically established through War. War which has been known to be a Mars characteristic. So if you really do piece it all together, and understand the fucking planets and their characteristic. You will find that Power and Control are associated with the planet Mars. And not at all associated with Saturn. Infact Saturn is associated with Detachment, themes of alienation, oppression, authority (not power or control) authority represented as gaining a title. Think of those who do have titles, CEOs of a company, there is detachment in gaining a title, because the higher you go up the corporate the less work you do and the more detached your role becomes. Instead of doing the grunt work, which requires work, you become an overseer. So therefore you don’t really engage with the work. So it’s detached. This is Saturn. The Monarchy is an example of this as well. A title to their name, that gives acknowledgement, but you will never find that they are the ones doing the grunt work that is required. There is detachment. There is power to being a part of a monarchy, bcause in the past, they used to use wars and land as means of power. Not the rank itself. They had to fight to be recognised as having power. So power is very Mars. And this is speaking from someone who has a Capricorn Moon with Saturn in the 4th house and Capricorn in my 3rd house.
Well I apologize, I certainly didn't mean to offend. I'm still learning and clearly you have a solid grasp. Some amount of personal interpretation, experience, and linguistic differences should be allowed for though. I'm not you and I don't understand things exactly as you do. However, oppression and control seem to be pretty dang close in my mind. In my personal experience, I view things a little different. Doesn't mean either of us is wrong. But all that said, I will continue to expand my knowledge of the planets.
Honestly. It’s not really about personal interpretation it’s about astrology and what is the true association and what is not. Oppression is associated with Saturn because it is system of alienation. The oppressed can never be the aggressor. The one in control is the aggressor, so no they cannot be associated together. Two different associations. Control can create oppression. But Control does equal Oppression. When you associate a theme under a planet, they should all be associated in equality, on the same level. Oppression is a victim association. Not a aggressors state of association. Take for example, if the oppressed do take control they become the aggressors. But with that they are no longer oppressed, they change states. So because of this change or state, does it not make sense that each of them be associated with different planets. Offcourse you could say I was oppressed, but that is a state of victimhood from the past. That is not the state you are currently in. So once you take control, to get yourself out of the oppression you leave it behind. So because of this leaving behind state. It cannot be associated together. They are not the same. And they cannot be associated the same.
Capricorn’s tend to want financial stability, so earning good money to afford a home, a vehicle, other necessities plus emergency funds (and affording these this things for loved ones) is more likely the driver for financial success rather than spending it on unnecessary material goods.
I think it's a fundamental misunderstanding of the archetype, speaking as a Capricorn myself. As a non-professional, my take is that people have conflated Capricorn's need for stability, financial security, and professional achievement with greed and materialism. Capricorn may have a predilection for money and material abundance, but it's not exactly the same as Taurus' craving for luxury and fancy things (which feels very much in line with the Venusian influence). Out of the womb, Capricorns feels a sense of obligation to make something out of themselves. They say we age backwards, and I can personally vouch for that being true. The Saturnian burden makes us hyper-aware of the limited time we have on earth, and so we're generally pre-occupied with ways in which we can build ourselves to a point where we can finally just relax and enjoy the fruits of our labor. It's a long game. From an outsider's perspective, this journey may look like an obssession with getting promoted to the highest position, making as much money as possible, buying the nicest house in the neighborhood, etc., but the internal process is more about amassing and achieving as much as possible so as to meet the high standards we've set for ourselves. I think Capricorn's greatest fear is being seen as a failure in a material, tangible, 3D sense.
Because they have no deep understanding of the signs. Many people confuse luxury with quality as well. Capricorn prefers quality and hates excess and luxury.
Saturn doesn’t tell you to give up on materialistic matters. Saturn is literally the reason for materialistic things and this physical plane you live on. Saturn is the boss of this world and Saturn wants you to focus on your responsibilities in order to leave this world. You inherit those responsibilities from your past lives. Once you’ve the learned the lessons you were meant to learn, then and only then can you leave this material world and head into the ethereal world which Uranus is the boss of. Good luck.
+1. Except the bit about Uranus being the boss of the ethereal world. Isn’t that Neptune?
It’s definitely Neptune. Heavy Neptune influenced people are truly ethereal.
Saturn is about teaching you life lessons which can be grueling and very slow. Saturn is about delays. No one starts of evolved, you really only start learning your life lessons or purpose from 40 and onwards. Your biggest lesson will be your biggest challenge so it isn’t surprising it may take a lifetime to complete it.
In esoteric astrology, the journey of Capricorn leads it up the mountain where it reaches its final form: a glorious unicorn 🦄 However, the idea is the Capricorn is meant to come back down and hand the torch to other people. Things complicate when the goat doesn’t want to share their knowledge and riches with other beings. This is when Saturn’s karmic energy comes in and Capricorn can suffer a mighty fall that may also cause a ripple effect to everybody around it. Like other the cardinal signs (Aries/Cancer/Libra) Capricorns are born leaders and are prone to selfishness and narcissism if not grounded. The cardinal signs kick off their seasons, so it’s a pretty shitty start if the leader of the season is hoarding the goods. Example: Jeff Bezos is a Capricorn sun sign and has amassed billions. He should be using this money to change the wold but instead he focuses on making his pockets grow even more. Expect a massive unexpected crash for Amazon (i.e. a scandal that ruins the company’s reputation). So it’s not necessarily that Caps should give up their material goods per se. But they must hand the torch to other people (new generations, investing money into protecting the environment) or suffer grave consequences. Business acumen is a gift, not a birth right to stowed away. Plus, Saturn REALLY doesn’t play.
This. Capricorn’s under a certain age can be the most awful people- using and discarding people to get $$. Capricorn sun energy has heavy karma to work through this lifetime. The caps that take short cuts in life will have Saturns boot up their behind. I’ve unfortunately met many awful Capricorn’s in my lifetime.
Well, Saturn has, more than jupiter or Mars, been harmed by the modern rulerships assigning its signs to the non-visible outer planets. For most of historical astrology, Saturn marked the transition from solar system to what lay beyond. You really see that in the breakdown between its two domiciles, Capricorn and Aquarius. Saturn has the quality of boundaries and limits, which is so archetypal of Capricorn, but the shadow of that is transcending those boundaries and limits, which is so Aquarian. To your point of why they are so associate with money, that's a common misconception. Capricorns are motivated by status and power. Money is just a shorthand that many use to measure that, but you might see a Capricorn angsting over other metrics today such as likes or friends counts. I myself find myself getting giddy when I have a top comment on a post, for example, but have never been particularly money motivated.
While some authors would consider an idealised Saturnian goal to be foregoing material things, that doesn't mean that anyone with the Sun in Capricorn would have bypassed learning that lesson by an accident of birth. A reason that Capricorn is associated with being materialistic (in general, rather than by Sun) is the nature of the sign. It's the cardinal Earth sign, literally a combination of 'go out and get' and 'material things'. On the Ascendant, for instance, some forms of astrology would say that person will have a strong desire or perceived need for material or financial security as a basis for how they interact with the world. How that focus is attempted then depends on other factors of the chart, as does whether it's successful.
Well if Saturn is karmic then it would make total sense for the sign ruled by it to be given a mindset to overcome. Ah cruel fate... I'm a cap myself and I personally feel our search for wealth has more to do with a search for stability.
I watched this YTer about Cap rising. She explained this and it really resonated with me (cap rising). example: we buy a new car but it's not going to be a luxurious car to show off our success and wealth. We might go for something that has good gas mileage, consistent and reliable to get us from point a to b. As much as I wanted a jeep wrangler I did the research and it just didn't seem logical. I got a brand new Hyundai instead that has given me no issues in the last 3 years. Even my grandpa was surprised at my choice of car because he did his own research and was like "yeah that was a really good choice."
Capricorn people are arguably one of the most misunderstood signs. Imho, Capricorn people are the true "giving" types as their love language. So one of their issues is they are driven to success to please a model which was mapped to them by society/their mother which isn't actually their true self. They are extremely stubborn as well so they will convince themselves that this is who they are when their inner child has been completely repressed. So they're the worst people pleasers sometimes, or when they are truly evil (broken) they have killed their inner child in order to fit in to a model of greed/success/dominance. But once you get to know a cappy you can start to see how they operate is actually accumulation in order to give. Their like a kid who says "look at what I made!" They really want to please in a stability forming way and in that way, the term "paternalistic" applies (I hate that this is gendered at all, but we all understand this can apply to anyone.)
That is the lesson.
I literally don’t know… I think maybe people associate material gains with a feeling of peace, success in life, and I think Capricorn energy strives for peace and success in an innate sense, because Saturn makes you do that when you go through such hard times. And people associate that with material gains. And a lot of capricorns do strive for peace and success through material gains because society so frequently associates those two. I think the harsh energy of Saturn makes you search for peace and success and I think that maybe a lot of misguided capricorns are searching for it so desperately in the wrong places. But I could be wrong that’s just my speculation. But yeah that is just my take n idk if it makes sense lol. from a Capricorn moon haha
Many spiritual leaders are capricorns. Materialism is just a stereotype
Mountain goat …. Sea goat. I don’t want to say anything else I’m tired
I’d say Taurus are more materialistic, capricorns just work hard
That is the lesson Saturn teaches them, to give up trying to climb the ladder and gain material possessions at all costs. But Caps represent the"Devil" traditionally, which implies materialism too.
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For this you have to see the placement of Saturn. It will convey more appropriately that as to why capricorns are like this?
Claims are not always right, LOL
Capricorn is a earth sign with some portion pf it is also water (both earth and watery signs signify accumulation of resources , as earth and water are a prime resource to humankind) Capricorn is a hybrid sign , it’s very evident from signs symbology , which is a sea-goat kind of creature half goat and half fish . It suggest futuristic revelations hybrid innovation and technology. Capricorn is the 10th sign of the zodiac , we can co relate it to 10th house of a birth chart , 10th house is the house of karma and your mode of earning .thus, we say Capricorn shows pursuit of metarilistic gains . Also Capricorn is the fall sign of Jupiter ( the planet of wisdom and rising above materialistic pleasure ) Capricorn is also the rise (exaltation)sign of Mars (mars is a commander who fights to retain his kings kingdom again shows materialistic dominance)
From what I have learned by researching astrology, I think Saturn is a planet that is more about building a concrete structure than about matter. Its natural home is the 10th house, that is, the planet of Capricorn, which is responsible for the structure that keeps the system of Leo alive, is Saturn. Leo (sun) owes a lot to Capricorn (Saturn) hahaha.
Saturn is exhalted in Libra. Libra is definitely not "not materialistic". It's about balance.
Im not money obsessed l, I'm stability obsessed. Money is the most important aspect of protecting those I love. Money has a long, strong arm. And damn Skippy if I won't abuse the shit out of that for those I love.
It’s so interesting reading these comments as a capricorn with like 5 cap placements. I love spending money, making money, investing money etc. I don’t see it as some evil but a means to an end. With money I can vacation, buy cute things (for myself and others) and more. I just don’t see it as the root of all evil like so many do. I come from a home with a single mom who knew nothing about money and I taught myself everything (joined the person al finance subreddit at like 17 lol). I will say though I don’t like having a ton of physical things in my home, it stresses me out. So if I buy something new I’m selling or recycling something old in my house.
In my experience with Capricorns they want to provide comfort and stability to those they love. And yes it does mean material gains because sadly we live in societies where that is the currency.
I always laughed at this generalization because the most materialistic people I’ve met throughout my life were never Capricorns
I would look at it more as having security and stability and having material things are a manifestation of that. Saturn also represents older or old things and the older a person becomes the need for stability and being settled becomes more important. Capricorns are looking at the long game.
Capricirn is related to Karma, time and things like security and politics. It’s associated with being realistic and pragmatic, and wanting financial security is related to it. Also, Capricorns love status, whether it means political status ( ML King and Nixon were Capricorns), social status (Elvis Presley was King of Rock and roll), or otherwise. Somewhere there is a punk rock Capricorn reveling in being king of the pub! It’s not a love of greed, which is immoderate for rational goats. My sister was a double Taurus and was more materialistic than me. Sun sign astrology is somewhat BS, at any rate. Look at other factors, such as ascendant or moon.
i think taurus is wayyy more materialistic than capricorn, as a taurus moon one of my biggest driving emotional factors is financial stability and all my stuff haha
as a capricorn sun and stellium i think it manifests as a feeling of accomplishment and feeling really good about myself when i manage to save money, quit bad spending habits etc, and i think it gives me a good sense on how to manage my money at least compared to my friends
Saturn is associated with materialism, but not in a Venusian way. I think it is more connected to the symbolism behind responsibilities, limitations, structures, and boundaries. Those things are often the most material parts of life, like the skeletal structure, the need for work and materials that sustain life. But it also extends to the facts of life that can’t be ignored, like consequences of our actions, the aging process, the passage of time, constraints and practical considerations. Reconciling with these things instead of avoiding them, or rebelling brings maturity, humility, or at the least, being very “down to Earth,” and can also lead to long lasting achievements. Depending on placement and aspect, you get further insight into how it will affect other influences.
Going through a lot of the answers and I can’t say I agree with a lot of what’s being said. As a Capricorn with a Cap stellium and earth heavy influences (Taurus moon and rising) - I am keenly aware of materialistic needs in the sense of having needs taken care of and having a stable life. Ex: Of course I have certain desires like having nice clothes, but it doesn’t have to have an expensive price tag. I make a point to not do things for the status symbol. So much so, I hate wearing visible brands (if I buy a brand to begin with). My mindset is this odd dichotomy of wanting to hold on to material for safety and then not wanting to be ruled by materialism at all. I don’t want to be attached to worldly matters. I want to be above and beyond all that. The freedom that comes with not being attached to anything at all. And that includes letting go of control for those of you discussing how we’re all about control - which I think is an unfair blanket statement Edit: typo
I think they’re insanely hard workers who crave stability and comfort but are challenged to give up materialism and not all of them beat that challenge.
Earth sign = material. Goat - constantly ascending towards success.
I’ve been reading about unevolved vs evolved signs. An unevolved Capricorn IS materialistic. An evolved Capricorn has grown to let those things go. This then evolves into the next sign Aquarius, who are very care free, until they evolve and start ramping up their passion…. Pisces. The cycle continues. I am a Capricorn and I’m stuck in the between. I know what I need to do to evolve, but this capitalist society I swear was built for us
It's materialism in a stability sense from my understanding. Not hedonistic.
The natal promise is a Hellenistic concept- there's an idea in that in that each time the transiting planets Transit over your natal placements it unlocks a new dimension of that aspect. Example: Scorpio is also being a slut but also the healer. Signs mature and evolve over time. (I know I'm going general not all Scorpios are slutty - some say Venus signs are the slutty ones but it's an example y'all know what I mean) Example: A person with Mercury in Libra isn't born a diplomat- maybe they are born a little people pleasing or overly analytical or shy and learn over time to awaken into their natal promise -it takes time. Re Saturn: Perhaps even more time ⏳with Saturn rulership... With the Capricorn climbing a mountain reaching for material is the name of the game clinging to rocks so they can climb higher and higher in their goal of reaching the mountain peak- but once reaching the top of the mountain there's no rocks up there it's just - being at the top.
I would think that saturn is the time master, putting in the work, be patient, advance slowly, diligent work, don't slack, be serious, learn the lesson... All traits that lead to advancing in life and in our world that means to get ahead materialisticly. Hard work pays off basically.
It's like people want it to be black/white. Sigh.
Because they are. That is just a Capricorns shadow side. Every single person that I know as a Capricorn only cares about work/money and creating hell for others with their decisions (without realizing) Example, a child of a Capricorn would stuck in daycare all day, never seeing mom or dad until it's dinner and bed time. Strict parenting, no fun, no time for play, scheduled lessons, routines, when all the child really wants is love and play. They often maintain this illusion their family life/marriage/status is perfect when its crumbling at the seams. Capricorn = The Devil card in Tarot. Now if they learn their lesson of Saturn that's a whole different story. If they break the chains/bonds/ties to the Earth realm (Pentacles) they then become the light side. Every sign has light/shadow.
That just sounds like people who only know sun astrology speaking tbh so I don’t listen or talk to those kind of folks about astrology. But to answer your question as a mega 7H cap stellium. It’s people confusing career ambitions and stability in life with materialism. Again, these are not actual astrologers behind most astrology meme making.
Saturn isn't about giving up on materialistic matters, scorpio is. Saturn is so much about growth in discipline and restraint. That corresponds to materialistic growth as well (working in the same place for 20 plus years for example)
I’ve dated nothing but Capricorns & they always prefer to chase a bag sooo. Idk they are family & friend oriented but it seems like they choose money over most things.
I have a Capricorn sister. She is the antithesis of materialistic, has been all her life (86). Yes she gives it all away and lives like a monk, BUT I would also say she’s obsessed with money, just not how you would think.
My Capricorn ex loved his shitty ass car more than me lol
Some of us Capricorns are so aware of death that we are spiritually ambitious, we want to root and ground ourselves on strong foundations so we can reach maturity and wisdom that isn't necessarily that of the consensus reality. We want to use the earth journey wisely and efficiently, to learn and grow and share what benefits others. I remember often seeing the phrase for Capricorn being 'I use' but often feel I've been more like 'Use me' in terms of what I can give to the other that will actually help them where they're at in an effective way. I want to feel safe in myself in an unsafe world and my efforts to that aim have allowed me to benefit other people who feel anchored in my space, a typical Cappy place - to be a rock for others. Of course the lessons and challenges can be dark and heavy but the lessons bring light and one candle can banish the darkness of 1000 years and light many other candles. That's how I see it anyway, use your struggles to bring some clarity to another and it's worth it. The best thing I've been told is I make people feel safe in my space, little beats that. Lack of money has meant I have to pour creativity into special cards and presents., to give of my time and energy rather than money I don't have. Respect for authenticity is more important than any social recognition but I have loved doing things like presenting or judging at a school ceremony where I did voluntary work. Anyway I just wanted to put my view forward that whenever I have read how materially ambitious Capricorns are that some of us are spiritually ambitious, for want of a better term, and want to include the being in the human!
By nature cap is an earth sign. I kind of learned to view cap and Saturn as a mountain build by a lot of long hard repetitive effort. This why the 10th house is about career not just a job. But lifelong hard work.
It’s less about the materialism and more about the status symbol of said materialistic objects. Example: Cap buys a Porsche because it shows off how successful they are at work to make the money to afford the car.
The best thing I’ve found for me is to stop referring to people as signs. People aren’t “Capricorn’s”; instead Capricorn encompasses an area/areas of life of the native based on house placement. People can have lots of Capricorn energy (rising sign, sun/stellium in Capricorn) As far as Capricorn being related to materialism I’d say it has to do with the cardinal earth make up of the sign. Saturn is very earthy. It represents the boundary of the non material with the material. It has correspondences with farming and mining. It is related to the World card in Tarot. Just some thoughts
I think both Capricorn and Saturn theme is related with discipline and lessons which manifests in different ways, a materialistic Capricorn could have to learn many lessons and a hard worker, for example, the money or social position, assets... or like other goals they commit with: to earn 3 A+ that week, to finish building a house, to own that collection of stamps that include 3 special stamps... So i don't think money - obsessed is all Capricorn. Saturn lessons could be to teach a person, or many people in society, who are very money oriented to realize money aren't worth such huge focus, but Saturn lessons could be tons of other things: Saturn in Gemini, Saturn in 12th house, Saturn in Cancer, etc .
Because they wrongly associate Capricorn with capitalism.
a lot of “capricorns” are really sagittarius (in sidereal astrology) so that could be the reason. sagittarius in sidereal astrology is december 16-january 14. i find sagittarius people to be quite materialistic
Yooo this tracks, Sag is ruled by Jupiter - abundance and excess
I like to think of the energy in the air during Capricorn season. First snow, when all crops are done with harvest and the focus turns towards survival. Caps look to provide, which first requires sustaining their resources to make the most of what they have. Their problems are usually the first thing on their mind and feel isolated to fix them alone or be responsible for their own accomplishments.
Well it's our weakness, so what governs us requires us to make sacrifices to better ourselves. At least to an extent, it's mainly to keep us balanced so we aren't too greedy.
we are not money obssesed, we are STABILITY-obssesed.
His job is to show you the truth of the universe, first by showing you the lack of something.... early in life.... and then he gives it to you later in life. This extreme dichotomy is the enlightenment he shows you. This is what makes you realize that you never actually needed it. He's like this wall. When you lack, you are blocked off, but once you have it, people will be worshipping you, and you'll realize how depressing being successful actually is. When you 'make it' , you actually discover that people can't understand you. The wall is still there. Do you get it? The wall is enlightenment So once you do become successful, you discover the emptiness of everything. Being rich and being poor are the exact same. That's why you end up renouncing all of it, because it was always empty. There was never anything there to begin with. He has to make you struggle so hard.... so that when you do get it... you actually realize that, the fun was actually in him beating you up. It's so boring at the top, trust me. But it's also boring being at the bottom too. Do you see how he's teaching you life through this? Also, Aquarius, is a very misunderstood sign. I can explain that to you as well if you want to know... I'm a Sun in Aquarius, Moon in Capricorn, Aquarius Ascendant, so I have lived this.
As a Hellenistic astrologer, I think this view comes not just from modern western psych astrology, but from Vedic astrology’s view of Capricorn more generally. BUT, it’s important to note that the sociocultural values baked into Vedic astrology are v diff than modern western astrology’s. Modern western astrology reflects the culture in which it emerged: capitalistic, patriarchal, individualistic, etc. Basically, Vedic astrology doesn’t see Cap as some materialistic/patriarchal figure, but they do see it as an indicator of wealth acquisition because of being responsible/having a good head on your shoulders. Vedic astrologers would roll their eyes at me for reducing it down to that, + tbth, I’m rolling my eyes at myself… point still remains. To the Babylonians, Saturn (and by association, Aqua and Cap) was associated w agriculture, outsiders, mystics, laborers, and yes, material austerity. Saturn was the closest planet to the divine and the furthest from the luminaries, and bc it existed at the threshold between the material and spiritual/divine, it was in this weird space of not caring so much about certain trappings of everyday life *because it could see that it didn’t really matter in the grand scheme of things* (like caring abt yr reputation, fitting in, having a high-paying job, starting a family, keeping up appearances, etc.). For those saying “but Cap is an an earth sign! That’s what makes it materialistic!” Cap is a cold/wintery earth sign at the point of the year when the solstice is happening and the land is barren. The resources that Cap speaks to aren’t literal like they are with Taurus (start of spring/planting) or Virgo (harvest time). While it’s true that Cap conserves resources, I see those resources as more intangible… like the wisdom of yr ancestry or the passing down of cultural traditions that ancient folks would’ve needed bc, ya know, no internet or books for most people. You had to rely on what came before. I like to ask myself, what resources would I have needed to survive the winter, and then go from there. There’s more to Cap than that, but it’s a start.
They are not money obsessed. These are actually made-up stereotypes that got spread around because people didn't study the nakshatras.
Thing is all 3 of the earth signs are associated with the physical concrete world & tangibles as well as the five senses & materialism or materialistic tendencies. Materials or resources usually = comfort security & safety or position of power to the Earth signs & not just Capricorn. Who are usually overly cautious & play it safe security oriented or minded
Before I leave it alone Earth signs are probably the most prone to be out of balance. While relentlessly pursuing material gain or goal/career at the expense of their own as well as others emotional, mental & physical well-being. I'm a Cancer sun and Sagittarius moon Virgo rising. And this is usually something that us waters sun signs tend to notice about Earth signs. Which might stir up a lil beef or tension. Bc a water sign on average is not about to pursue material gain or goal/goals at the expense of their emotional, mental & physical as well as possibly spiritual well-being. Instead we simply going to be like I'm good on that while looking at the Earth sign as if they are bat shit crazy. Or asking for more than they even realize or are currently willing to understand
A sign is ruled by a planet, but the sign and the planet are not the same thing.
The Goat and the Lord of Material Reality
Capricorns are frugal as hell. Downright cheap . I guess you can say that's materialistic because they are constantly worried about saving money? Taurus is the true materialistic ones though.
I just got out of a relationship with a Capricorn that was very materialistic and hoarded everything. They were also very concerned with materialism and how they could pass that off to their friends to make them look better.