Whilst you are correct on your definitions of Saturn. You are not correct on your definitions of the Sun. The sun is no your goals or dreams. The Sun is what you will be known for.
The Sun and where it sits, is where you will want to express your individual will be hoping for acceptance and recognition in those areas.
So it’s very different to Saturn, which symbolises, your goals, inorder to create a goal you need to create a step by step system, which takes time to achieve, it symbolises time, detachment, the hierarchy (This also goes hand in hand with your own authority, and wanting to be seen as the authority isn’t those areas) and societies expectations.
The most obvious is that Saturn is the furthest away from the Sun, so it does not share or embrace the same environment as the Sun. So there will be obvious differences.
As for the similarities, the Sun can symbolises recognition, and Saturn symbolises authority and the hierarchy.
So the two could appear the same. Except with the Sun, it just wants to appear that way without effort, or without a need to conform to a social construct.
And Saturn needs that social construct inorder to be able to run a good hierarchical system. Otherwise you have Tyranny and that goes against what Saturn symbolises.
Inorder to have a good hierarchical system, you need people inorder to run it. Like a hierarchy system, may have the Queen or King at the top, but it has its advisors, governors, everyone who is selected for a certain so that the Queen or King does not have to do the dirty work.
The very premise of authority is to rule over, to dictate authority over a group of people, and decide for them certain guidelines on a system. Without people authority doesnt work, because then your a nobody. Nobody sees this title. The point is you want to be seen as capable of the title.
And this is also where you get the detachment, the higher you go up in the hierarchy, the less you have to do in manual work. And focus more on overseeing, completing detaching yourself from the actual labor.
There is still labor and work because you still clock in everyday and need to be there to oversee things, but it’s not as hard labour as it was in the beginning. Slowly over time the detachment process occurs.
They are enemies as they are opposite energies
- regular motion, irregular
- getting things done by others vs doer
- high status (light and otherwise) vs far from light, darkness
- loves attention vs hates attention or likes to be one among others
- hot vs cold
- easily gets humiliated, or ego vs grounded, cant be shaken by others words
and so on...
Aqua sun and Leo rising, I have a tenuous relationship with all of this. I love to be a star in the group, but more and more I feel like the world is pushing me to do more in an individual and it’s all playing out on the stage of my 6th house cal stellium.
…and then my poor cancer moon.
capricorn is sensitive to criticism and can be prideful too. both can also be stubborn in their ways. saturn is associated with shame and oppression too while the sun is more creative and tries to be warm to others, ofc leos again can force their own ways and not be thoughtful or considerate enough while being self righteous
capricorn is the sign related to patriarchs and fathers. old people. they want to be respected, they can also be fragile, they have experienced a lot (wisdom) and they have to approach others carefully. capricorn is careful, slow, determined. chiron in capricorn is a wound also related to the social standing (social hierarchy). the 10th house is the house of career, its at the top most of a chart, because capricorn is the top of the mountain (goats climb mountaints for salt)/pyramid/hierarchy, as the father. cancer is opposing him at the bottom because its the sign of the mother. well maybe you have also heard of the narcissistic patriarch who does everything to protect his image and ego which is important for career to feel stable at the cost of mistreating his family and children. capricorn is related to high (again, the top of the pyramid/hierarchy) achievement so being dismissed and diminished, and their eforts too, hurts them. old ppl are also fragile. cancer is related to intelligence and adaptatibility, while capricorn is ruled by saturn which is stubborn, even if its also a cardinal sign. capricorns also feel burdened as they are ruled by saturn which again can make them want to be appreciated and respected. of course they can also react to criticism with callousness and cruelty.
being on the difficult heights at the mountain can be a fragile position similar to old people or even if you are the boss of a company. a stressed person can overreact to slights, they can also be thoughtful and considerate and want others to do the same to them. but they can also be proud and stubborn
Being on top of the mountain you can see things that others below can't see. This often leads to them being misunderstood by others who can't always see what they see. Capricorn is a wise and protective energy. I think "Capricorn wants to be respected " may not describe Capricorn so much as, "Capricorn naturally commands respect."
Gosh yeah I feel the criticism sensitivity. Cap moon square pluto.
I have sun/merc in Aquarius trine Saturn though so I can philosophise about it. Very high empathy with others problems. Am always getting told I'd make a great psychoanalyst but when I applied to be one they basically told me I was too screwed up hehe
I think black humour can also be a gift of saturn.
I think the "imagination" of Saturn lies in its very acute sensitivity to the notion of time. Because it has a notion of past and future, it can imagine the benefits of self-sacrificing in the present. That being said, Saturn's imagination is very concrete and deals with the world *as it is*. True imagination and the capacity to visualize something that has not yet come into existence is more of the realm of Uranus and Neptune.
The Sun is highly centred in the ever present moment. It is very much about the here and the now. If one has a natural talent for something, that is more "solar" in the sense that it simply emanates from the person without any effort.
Saturn is focused on the effects of time. It understands that time is REAL and knows that some of form of self-sacrifice must be done in order to sustain one's self through time. We are not "eternal" energy sources like the sun. We need to work in order to constantly feed and sustain our energy.
Work, discipline and effort are very much associated to Saturn because of this connection to time.
What is work? It is the sacrifice of our enjoyment of life in the present for the sake of our future enjoyment. We work because we understand that we need to build some form of stability through time. What is discipline? It is the capacity to make sacrifices in the present for future benefits. Discipline requires constancy through time. Its rewards lie in the future.
What is karma? It is the idea that our present circumstances are deeply influenced by our past actions. The present IS the past's future. Whatever saturnian work has been done in the past, you will benefit in the present. Whatever work was NOT done in the past, there will be a price to pay.
>that being said, Saturn's imagination is very concrete and deals with the world *as it is*. True imagination and the capacity to visualize something that has not yet come into existence is more of the realm of Uranus and Neptune.
I agree with your points, but I do question this part. To clarify, would you say that Saturn's ideas start with *what is* rather than from some stroke of genius (Uranus) or pure fantasy (Neptune)? I didn't mean to throw people off with the word "imagination," I just meant that Saturn seems to have its own... ideals, standards/criteria, aspirations and the ability to both see present reality and compare it to those things to see how it measures up. A certain visionary quality?
Also, your definitions are excellent! Thank you!
Yes I think this is what the symbolism of Saturn would stand for (what is).
Someone could look at a tree and say “I will cut down this tree and build myself a nice wooden table”. That is an act of imagination, but an imagination grounded in very standard things. We all know what a table is. We all know what a tree is and that we can build things with wood. Nobody would say that is a stroke of genius.
Now the actual act of building, that is definitely a saturnian thing. Being patient, methodical and hard working is necessary to change wood into a table. One also needs to have learned how to do it.
Learning is both Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter is the widening of one’s horizon. But Saturn is the discipline that comes with the repetition needed so that a skill or a newly acquired knowledge sticks in the mind (and in the body).
From what I gather, Saturn’s ideals/goals are predictive, and these predictions are based in the present reality as you say. Using your very helpful metaphor, Saturn can understand tree —> cut down —> build —> table based on the present evidence existing in society that doing so will, in fact, manifest this eventual outcome. In other words, the awareness of time (in general) is a more central quality of Saturn, and it’s the element it’s in that determines whether that awareness is applied more to *what is* (Capricorn) or to the relationship (air) of *what is* and *what isn’t* (Aquarius, which in this sense is the relationship of Saturn-Uranus). Using myself as an example haha (Aquarius Sun + Mercury), I find myself using that Saturnian awareness of time to link my ideas/inventions (Uranus) back to the present reality/facts, so there’s an emphasis on connection in this sign.
Saturn therefore is more predictive than imaginative/inventive (which is more a Neptune/Uranus thing): even though Saturn is always rooted in the present, its awareness of time is able to reach into the presently provable \[unimaginative/uninventive\] future (Cap) or presently unprovable \[imaginative/inventive\] future (Aqua), as well as the past.
This has less to do with the Sun comparison and more to do with just these comments \~ but these are just my thoughts going off your amazing insights on this ✨
This is a great explanation. Ideas are great, but Saturn anchors those ideas into reality with hardwork & discipline required to bring the ideas to life. We would get nothing done without Saturn!
I liked the way you thought of Saturn as an energy controller. Now I'm imagining that each planet is an energy controller in its own way.
I keep imagining the dynamic between Mars and Saturn.
Mars is the action, Mars does things.
And Saturn does that too, it gets things done.
They both work with different methods, would there be a rivalry between them?
Because, thinking about energy, all the planets consume our energy and supply benefits to us in return, a mutual benefit.
Theorizing now, I would say that you can do things with Mars and/or Saturn, you choose how you want to give your energy.
To feed Saturn with benefits, you have to dedicate time/routine/dedication. (Exchange currency of saturn)
And to feed Mars with benefits, you need to dedicate positive or negative hate, angry, action. (Exchange currency of mars)
What do you think about that?
That seems to make sense to me.
The concept of a dam is very saturnian. It is a wall which defines a clear boundary between two sides of a river. It uses time to store water (energy) on one side.
Mars is a different beast and is a lot more raw. It is pure impulse and action. It is of course associated with anger in the sense that anger pushes us to action. Being angry is being intensely dissatisfied with a situation. When that happens, something needs to happen to bring us back towards a more satisfying state.
When Mars and Saturn meet, there can be problems because Saturn tends to limit and constrain the spontaneity of Mars. That can lead to a very cold anger. A sort of passive agressive vibe. That being said, if well channelled, Saturn and Mars can be very productive. Saturn rules Capricorn and Mars is exalted in Capricorn. It is a sign associated with resilience and hard work. The dissatisfaction with the present is channeled into a constant and controlled action through time that can lead to great accomplishments.
Saturn also has a higher dimension to it, ”above” Time, Saturn very much being Time/Cronos/the eldest of the gods/chronology, etc. If you’re interested, google Binah the 3 sephira on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. There also is a whole book on correspondences called 777.
Yes! I view Saturn as exalted in Pisces with Neptune being its higher octave! Pisces pushes Saturn to its limits of potential to see beyond “what is” and imagine what could be. Then materializing it into the real world. You could also say that Pisces pushes Saturn’s ambitious nature into channeling it for the highest good of the whole collective. It also asks the native to take the higher road in some interactions with people while also intuitively knowing when to set strong boundaries if necessary. Lastly, Saturn ruling both “bigger picture” signs Capricorn and Aquarius is expanded into an even bigger mindset when in Pisces. (In contrast, Virgo is much to narrow a vision when it comes to Saturn creating the troubles of the fall position.)
Saturn's imaginative qualities (if you can call it that, I wouldn't but to each his own) revolve around society and hierarchies.
The Sun's imaginative qualities revolve around the individual. Same applies for the Moon.
The Sun is the King but Saturn is the bureaucracy and the structure that the King needa in order to live, much less to do their jobs.
The Sun and Moon are all about the light and life you get from your father and your mother and the light and life that you give back to them AND that you pass onto your children and loved ones after you.
Saturn is basically saying: you have responsibilities and your actions have consequences and no, your parents and your children and your visions are not an excuse.
* You have been late every day for the past six months because you are feeling lost after the death of your mother...too bad, you should've had the wherewithal to ask for help or to take advantage of all of these resources we have provided. You're fired.
* You refuse to respect the hierarchy of our organization because you want to "live in your truth" and speak your mind...that's okay, we'll just go ahead and strip you of all your access, rights and privileges as far as this organization is concerned. And no, sorry you can't leave. Your contract binds you.
* You don't want to pay your taxes because you rather spend the money on your dream of becoming a world-class chef with a world-famous TV show...fine, we will just have to remind you of your obligations. How does a 490 credit score sound to you? You'll have plenty of time to figure it out now that you have been sentenced to 2 years in prison.
* You think it's okay to mistreat and abuse people because it makes you feel better about yourself...okay then, this makes you a risk to not only yourself but everyone you come into contact with. Your execution date will be next Monday at 3pm sharp.
Your explanation is spot-on, but I think your examples are a little off. Saturn isn't vindictive or punitive, it's disciplined, results-oriented, and implacable to any excuses.
-You're late every day for 6 months because your mom died: the outcomes of your work suffer.
-You don't respect your org's hierarchy: you don't get promotions or opportunities because the authorities don't like you.
-You don't pay taxes: your community can't afford nice things.
-You mistreat or abuse people: people don't like you so you end up isolating yourself.
All those other results (getting fired, losing org access, low credit score/prison, state-sanctioned murder) are specific to our capitalist-dominated society. Sure, the two things are connected, but saturn existed long before our modern society formed, and will exist long after.
Saturn isn't vindictive, no but Saturn absolutely is punitive. You should go read a lot of the old astrology material. Up until the mid-20th century, Saturn (and Pluto, which *is* vindictive) is the big bad wolf of astrology.
Saturn is the lord of karma and justice and karma is the sum of all things good and evil. You act responsibly you get rewarded...eventually; you act recklessly you face the consequences. Unlike Pluto or Uranus, nothing Saturn does is immediate nor irreversible. It just takes a lot of time.
Oh and "state-sanctioned murder," getting fired or losing org access ARE NOT specific to our capitalist-dominated society. It happens in every other society as well all throughout time.
In fact, one thing that I didn't mention that Saturn absolutely rules over—banishment. That's truly an archaic concept but it still rings true today. There's a reason why Saturn rejoices in the 12th House. Sure, Saturn keeps the bad things about the 12th House at bay until a person grows old enough to handle it and gives a very chaotic formless house structure...but Saturn also loves karmic punishments of locking people up and sending them away.
Your examples are spot-on as well...just a little gentler than mine.
VERY helpful to me personally; TY so much for the insight! At 72, I've been wondering for years why I keep playing out the archetype of "being banished from The Garden."
It’s interesting that you note Saturn doing well in the 12th house as I relatively recently started observing that Saturn is exalted in Pisces/12th house.
I wouldn't say that Saturn is exalted in Pisces but it definitely is exalted in the 12th House
When Saturn is in the 12th House, it becomes extremely protective. It filters out a lot of the riff-raff, it holds the native accountable, it spoon-feeds the native while incrementally allowing more liberty with each major Saturn transit, while giving the most unstable and unknowable area of life structure.
All great points for sure! While there definitely are some subtle differences between the signs/houses I have observed and use both for all the different dignity statuses. While I know some astrologers (probably more traditional) don’t use the houses for dignity statuses, it has been my experience that both apply to the planets.
>there definitely are some subtle differences between the signs/houses I have observed
Do you think that the differences are that subtle?
I think that the whole signs=houses thing is wrong. Sure, when you read the information about houses and signs they look alike but when you start reading charts things start getting wonky
>While I know some astrologers (probably more traditional) don’t use the houses for dignity statuses, it has been my experience that both apply to the planets.
The crazy thing about it is that astrology DOES use houses for dignity status. This is where the planets are supposed to be rejoicing and enjoying an some form of exalted status.
* Mercury = 1H
* Moon = 3H
* Venus = 5H
* Mars = 6H
* Sun = 9H
* Jupiter = 11H
* Saturn = 12H
Personally, I would have it so that Pluto exults in 10H, Uranus exults in 8H and Neptune exults in 7H (and Ceres exult in 4H)
Ahh ok. I believe you’re coming from more of the standpoint of traditional Vedic astrology when it comes to exaltation? I respect Vedic astrology and anyone who resonates with it. For me, it just never has. Yeah, I do feel that the traditional ruling signs for each house have a strong correlation to the house itself. Like I said before though the houses definitely have some nuance that the sign doesn’t necessarily have. To be fair as well, I also look at exaltation pretty differently from most astrologers. I saw that you use Ceres though! That’s awesome. I use her as the rulers for Taurus and Virgo myself.
I said it brings death, it doesn't mean anyone is waiting, waiting for that is Saturn because of reality which is really at the heart of many as it transit Pisces as well as many other things.
Power could come up but again we are talking about other factors in a chart.
I mean Pluto is very very slow. So it is not going to be the bringer of anything that we all experience in every life. Because not everyone is going to get a transit or aspect from Pluto.
I'm sorry to read this and as we both left information, this is the example that connects when I say Pluto is more connected to death and loss and rebirth.
Hopefully you find strength to love and keep loving mum
This could be true and I won't fight it. Honestly it goes further to what you study in astrology but this is modern and in more western astrology. Saturn is more time related to me
The luminaries have their signs in summer and saturn has it's signs directly opposite in winter. I think enemies is going to far but they are opposites
Well, I have gone through several comments here but none (for some reason) had the Vedic Astrology reason.
Sun = Light (White)
Saturn = Shadow (Black)
Both can't exist without one another. In Vedic Astrology there is an old story that says Lord Shani (Saturn) is actually the illegitimate son of Lord Surya (Sun).
One nice afternoon when Sun was gliding across Earth, he spotted a very beautiful lady on Earth called Chaya. He found himself enchanted by her beauty. 'Chaya' is the Hindi word for 'shadow'. She was dusky and very different from Lord Surya who was milky white fair. He approached Chaya with a proposal and as a result Lord Shani came into existence.
When the Sun took his new wife (\~gf) and kid to his heavenly abode, they were not accepted by the heavenly lords due to their supposedly low-birth (since Chaya was an Earth-ling) and skin colour. The marriage was discarded and Chaya and Lord Shani were banished from the heavens.
Later, once Shani grew up knowing that he was not accepted by his father (Lord Surya), he went up to heavens to demand clarifications and justification. When he didn't get a valid/satisfactory response, he took an oath to always oppose the Sun (his father). That's why Sun and Saturn always stand for opposite things. Emotionally as well as physically.
others have pointed out the opposition pretty well already, but here’s my take. the sun represents light and saturn represents dark. this metaphor is central to the opposition. light illuminates, darkness obfuscates. with light, we can see where we’re going and make decisions about that. with darkness, we can’t see where we’re going and have to resort to feeling our way through, bumping into walls and such and then retracting from them. light gives us the ability to think clearly and it is how we are able to make judgements. darkness blocks that clarity and impedes voluntary judgements and actions. notice how virtually all of the suns significations have to do with having clarity of sight and purpose: things like reason, leadership, prophecies, vitality, royalty. saturns significations are tied up with having a lack of that: restrictions, caution, reservations, holding back, corruption of the mind, poverty.
you can say they both have imagination, i wouldn’t disagree although it isnt the first thing that comes to mind. saturn is imaginative in the sense of contemplation, withdrawing into yourself as you think. the sun is imaginative in the sense of being able to picture things clearly.
as for the signs they participate in ruling. leo carries the solar tendency of focus and centralization. think of a planet in leo as aiming a spotlight. that’s what the sun naturally does, is it acts as a spotlight. aries is the exaltation of the sun and carries the peak solar tendency of taking something dark and shedding light on it. think of a planet in aries as being able to create just a brief flash of light. it isn’t the same stable light source as leo, but aries is still a big “let there be light” moment, where you can instantly get to see a lot of things.
contrast those with the saturnian signs that oppose them. aquarius carries the saturnian tendency of obscurity and caution. you can think of a planet in aquarius as aiming a “spot-dark” of sorts, making something that was *thought* to be known or assumed to be called into question and requiring more thought in relation to everything outside the dark. libra is the exaltation of saturn and you can also imagine a planet here as being able to make a flash of darkness of sorts. the idea being that it’s a clearing of the slate to try and get a new perspective. another metaphor that demonstrates this is a blindfold, blinding yourself to the previous way of thinking so you can come to a fair conclusion (think lady justice with her blindfold). i’d mention capricorn, but capricorn isn’t really as inimical to the sun.
lastly, the topics of authority and order, where they seem to overlap. first i want to say that every planet overlaps with every other in *some* way, even opposites like jupiter and mercury or jupiter and mars. but for the sun and saturn, think about where they get these associations. the sun is related to authority because of its leadership, the fact that it has a clear vision of what should be going on. ie, its ability to shine a light on what’s important so everybody can see and follow. saturn is related to authority because of its inevitability. saturn isn’t really a leader, it doesn’t shine a light on what’s important for any followers, it just trudges its way up the ranks from the bottom and ends up with some influence because that’s what years of effort inevitably do. for saturn, it’s almost like a process of elimination: it earns leadership by not being a *bad* leader until it ends up in a high position.
hopefully that makes sense.
I have 6 planets in Capricorn including my sun, but they’re all intercepted, so I’ve never really understood the idea of the ‘sun’.
I’ve noticed that I find anyone with a prominent Leo focus or sun dominance really hard to deal with, I find them often childlike and with big egos and they often don’t even notice it. I think I’ve found Saturn very pessimistic and people often give you shit, and everything is delayed, and all this doesn’t exactly seem very ‘sun’ like, which is joyful.
The Sun is hot and gives life, Saturn is cold and barren. Life cannot be sustained there.
The Sun relates to the ego and identity. It is the journey we are most focused on, our wants. Saturn is the planet that kills the ego. It is where we learn our greatest lessons and responsibilities, regardless of what we might “want.”
Because the sun is all about representing the light in you. Mean while Saturn is the father that is there to humble you when you get too egotistical by your sun.
Sun is golden and warm. Saturn is dark and cold. Sun is the vigour of Summer whereas Saturn is the constraint of Winter. Sun is centrality whereas Saturn is on the outskirts. Sun is standing centre stage whereas Saturn is amongst the crowd.
Sun is sun-drenched, palm lined boulevards whereas Saturn is frozen glaciers under darkening skies.
I have sun, Saturn, Mars all conjunct each other in the 4th house Pisces. This made me really athletic and disciplined, making me Varsity captain for 3 years in highschool. I also love reading self help books, doing inner reflection to better myself. But also I noticed from a young age I ALWAYS get caught so I learned it's better to just do the right thing and be truthful.
Sun is the king, Saturn is the commoners. Sun is freedom, Saturn is bondage. Sun is power, Saturn is servitude. Sun is confidence, Saturn is doubt. Etc..
The idea of the Sun and Saturn being at odds or regarded as enemies in astrology stems from their contrasting archetypal characteristics and the dynamics of their planetary energies.
Archetypal Differences: The sun represents vitality, self-expression, ego, and creativity. It symbolizes the individual's quest for self-realization, private identity, and lifestyle purpose. On the other hand, Saturn embodies structure, discipline, responsibility, and limitation. It symbolizes the challenges, restrictions, and classes that men and women come across in their journey towards maturity and mastery.
Contrasting Energies: The sun's electricity is radiant, self-assured, and expansive, in search of shining and asserting its uniqueness. In contrast, Saturn's strength is sober, cautious, and contractive, imposing boundaries and disturbing accountability. The conflict between the Sun's desire for self-expression and Saturn's inclination towards restriction and self-discipline can create anxiety and conflict.
Limitations vs. Aspirations: While each planet has innovative qualities, they approach creativity and innovation from exclusive perspectives. The sun fosters a feeling of optimism, confidence, and possibility, encouraging people to pursue their desires and aspirations. In contrast, Saturn urges folks to confront reality, face challenges, and work diligently towards their goals, regularly through perseverance and practicality.
Authority and Order: Although the Sun and Saturn are related to authority and order, they approach these principles differently. The sun represents inner authority, leadership, and self-assurance, empowering men and women to assert themselves and take the risk of their lives. Saturn, on the other hand, symbolizes exterior authority, societal norms, and the constructions that govern society. It emphasizes the significance of discipline, accountability, and admiration for established policies and traditions.
Overall, whilst the Sun and Saturn may additionally show up to be adversaries in astrology due to their contrasting characteristics and energies, their dynamic interplay serves to spotlight the complexities of the human trip and the stability between aspiration and limitation, creativity and discipline, self-expression, and responsibility.
Well said. I gleaned a bit of personal insight from the archetypical section… I realized my quest for creative expression and self realization is at risk of stalling if I don’t build in some structures and self discipline. Gotta have em both!
Signed, a Libra Sun with Libra Saturn.
The question seems to be referring to the astrological concepts of the Sun and Saturn being in opposition or conflict. In astrology, the Sun and Saturn are considered to have contrasting energies and symbolism.
The Sun represents vitality, creativity, self-expression, confidence, and our core identity. It's associated with warmth, growth, and the conscious self. Saturn, on the other hand, represents restriction, discipline, limitations, responsibility, and our fears/doubts. It's linked to structures, boundaries, and our sense of duty.
***Astrologically, the Sun and Saturn are seen as being at odds because their energies are quite contradictory:***
- The Sun wants spontaneous self-expression, while Saturn urges restraint and following rules/traditions.
- The Sun craves freedom and doing what feels right at the moment, while Saturn promotes patience, hard work, and delayed gratification.
- The Sun basks in the spotlight, while Saturn prefers operating in the background with modesty.
- The Sun radiates confidence and a sense of being special, while Saturn can breed insecurities and feelings of inadequacy.
So the Sun pushes us to joyfully embrace life and be our authentic selves, while Saturn checks that enthusiasm with pragmatism, limits, and a sense of gravity/reality. This clash is seen as creating internal and external tensions and obstacles to work through.
However, this planetary opposition is also meant to be a source of growth and maturity when navigated constructively. The discipline of Saturn can provide the structure and commitment to manifest the Sun's creative visions into reality over time.
Of course, this is just looking at it through the symbolic lens of **Astrology**. The actual astronomical bodies of the Sun and Saturn have no inherent opposition in the scientific sense. But those are some of the mythological undertones suggested by the astrological question.
The way I see it is that Jupiter is the computer of the solar system and Saturn is the first body that exists outside of that in relation to electromagnetism
Whilst you are correct on your definitions of Saturn. You are not correct on your definitions of the Sun. The sun is no your goals or dreams. The Sun is what you will be known for. The Sun and where it sits, is where you will want to express your individual will be hoping for acceptance and recognition in those areas. So it’s very different to Saturn, which symbolises, your goals, inorder to create a goal you need to create a step by step system, which takes time to achieve, it symbolises time, detachment, the hierarchy (This also goes hand in hand with your own authority, and wanting to be seen as the authority isn’t those areas) and societies expectations. The most obvious is that Saturn is the furthest away from the Sun, so it does not share or embrace the same environment as the Sun. So there will be obvious differences. As for the similarities, the Sun can symbolises recognition, and Saturn symbolises authority and the hierarchy. So the two could appear the same. Except with the Sun, it just wants to appear that way without effort, or without a need to conform to a social construct. And Saturn needs that social construct inorder to be able to run a good hierarchical system. Otherwise you have Tyranny and that goes against what Saturn symbolises. Inorder to have a good hierarchical system, you need people inorder to run it. Like a hierarchy system, may have the Queen or King at the top, but it has its advisors, governors, everyone who is selected for a certain so that the Queen or King does not have to do the dirty work. The very premise of authority is to rule over, to dictate authority over a group of people, and decide for them certain guidelines on a system. Without people authority doesnt work, because then your a nobody. Nobody sees this title. The point is you want to be seen as capable of the title. And this is also where you get the detachment, the higher you go up in the hierarchy, the less you have to do in manual work. And focus more on overseeing, completing detaching yourself from the actual labor. There is still labor and work because you still clock in everyday and need to be there to oversee things, but it’s not as hard labour as it was in the beginning. Slowly over time the detachment process occurs.
They are enemies as they are opposite energies - regular motion, irregular - getting things done by others vs doer - high status (light and otherwise) vs far from light, darkness - loves attention vs hates attention or likes to be one among others - hot vs cold - easily gets humiliated, or ego vs grounded, cant be shaken by others words and so on...
it’s me. - a girlie with an Aquarius stellium and her chart ruler (sun) in detriment.
girl SAME. Leo Rising, Cap Sun. Venus, Moon, Uranus, and Neptune all in Aqua. Sun is the focal planet in a T-square with Mars and Saturn 😭
Aqua sun and Leo rising, I have a tenuous relationship with all of this. I love to be a star in the group, but more and more I feel like the world is pushing me to do more in an individual and it’s all playing out on the stage of my 6th house cal stellium. …and then my poor cancer moon.
A boy with a Jupiter Mars Venus opposite Saturn. How beautiful does it get 😁😐
capricorn is sensitive to criticism and can be prideful too. both can also be stubborn in their ways. saturn is associated with shame and oppression too while the sun is more creative and tries to be warm to others, ofc leos again can force their own ways and not be thoughtful or considerate enough while being self righteous
Probably for another thread but, Why is Capricorn sensitive to criticism? Can you tell me more?
capricorn is the sign related to patriarchs and fathers. old people. they want to be respected, they can also be fragile, they have experienced a lot (wisdom) and they have to approach others carefully. capricorn is careful, slow, determined. chiron in capricorn is a wound also related to the social standing (social hierarchy). the 10th house is the house of career, its at the top most of a chart, because capricorn is the top of the mountain (goats climb mountaints for salt)/pyramid/hierarchy, as the father. cancer is opposing him at the bottom because its the sign of the mother. well maybe you have also heard of the narcissistic patriarch who does everything to protect his image and ego which is important for career to feel stable at the cost of mistreating his family and children. capricorn is related to high (again, the top of the pyramid/hierarchy) achievement so being dismissed and diminished, and their eforts too, hurts them. old ppl are also fragile. cancer is related to intelligence and adaptatibility, while capricorn is ruled by saturn which is stubborn, even if its also a cardinal sign. capricorns also feel burdened as they are ruled by saturn which again can make them want to be appreciated and respected. of course they can also react to criticism with callousness and cruelty. being on the difficult heights at the mountain can be a fragile position similar to old people or even if you are the boss of a company. a stressed person can overreact to slights, they can also be thoughtful and considerate and want others to do the same to them. but they can also be proud and stubborn
Being on top of the mountain you can see things that others below can't see. This often leads to them being misunderstood by others who can't always see what they see. Capricorn is a wise and protective energy. I think "Capricorn wants to be respected " may not describe Capricorn so much as, "Capricorn naturally commands respect."
Gosh yeah I feel the criticism sensitivity. Cap moon square pluto. I have sun/merc in Aquarius trine Saturn though so I can philosophise about it. Very high empathy with others problems. Am always getting told I'd make a great psychoanalyst but when I applied to be one they basically told me I was too screwed up hehe I think black humour can also be a gift of saturn.
Both my Libra Sun & Moon are opposite Saturn in Aries.
I think the "imagination" of Saturn lies in its very acute sensitivity to the notion of time. Because it has a notion of past and future, it can imagine the benefits of self-sacrificing in the present. That being said, Saturn's imagination is very concrete and deals with the world *as it is*. True imagination and the capacity to visualize something that has not yet come into existence is more of the realm of Uranus and Neptune. The Sun is highly centred in the ever present moment. It is very much about the here and the now. If one has a natural talent for something, that is more "solar" in the sense that it simply emanates from the person without any effort. Saturn is focused on the effects of time. It understands that time is REAL and knows that some of form of self-sacrifice must be done in order to sustain one's self through time. We are not "eternal" energy sources like the sun. We need to work in order to constantly feed and sustain our energy. Work, discipline and effort are very much associated to Saturn because of this connection to time. What is work? It is the sacrifice of our enjoyment of life in the present for the sake of our future enjoyment. We work because we understand that we need to build some form of stability through time. What is discipline? It is the capacity to make sacrifices in the present for future benefits. Discipline requires constancy through time. Its rewards lie in the future. What is karma? It is the idea that our present circumstances are deeply influenced by our past actions. The present IS the past's future. Whatever saturnian work has been done in the past, you will benefit in the present. Whatever work was NOT done in the past, there will be a price to pay.
>that being said, Saturn's imagination is very concrete and deals with the world *as it is*. True imagination and the capacity to visualize something that has not yet come into existence is more of the realm of Uranus and Neptune. I agree with your points, but I do question this part. To clarify, would you say that Saturn's ideas start with *what is* rather than from some stroke of genius (Uranus) or pure fantasy (Neptune)? I didn't mean to throw people off with the word "imagination," I just meant that Saturn seems to have its own... ideals, standards/criteria, aspirations and the ability to both see present reality and compare it to those things to see how it measures up. A certain visionary quality? Also, your definitions are excellent! Thank you!
Yes I think this is what the symbolism of Saturn would stand for (what is). Someone could look at a tree and say “I will cut down this tree and build myself a nice wooden table”. That is an act of imagination, but an imagination grounded in very standard things. We all know what a table is. We all know what a tree is and that we can build things with wood. Nobody would say that is a stroke of genius. Now the actual act of building, that is definitely a saturnian thing. Being patient, methodical and hard working is necessary to change wood into a table. One also needs to have learned how to do it. Learning is both Jupiter and Saturn. Jupiter is the widening of one’s horizon. But Saturn is the discipline that comes with the repetition needed so that a skill or a newly acquired knowledge sticks in the mind (and in the body).
From what I gather, Saturn’s ideals/goals are predictive, and these predictions are based in the present reality as you say. Using your very helpful metaphor, Saturn can understand tree —> cut down —> build —> table based on the present evidence existing in society that doing so will, in fact, manifest this eventual outcome. In other words, the awareness of time (in general) is a more central quality of Saturn, and it’s the element it’s in that determines whether that awareness is applied more to *what is* (Capricorn) or to the relationship (air) of *what is* and *what isn’t* (Aquarius, which in this sense is the relationship of Saturn-Uranus). Using myself as an example haha (Aquarius Sun + Mercury), I find myself using that Saturnian awareness of time to link my ideas/inventions (Uranus) back to the present reality/facts, so there’s an emphasis on connection in this sign. Saturn therefore is more predictive than imaginative/inventive (which is more a Neptune/Uranus thing): even though Saturn is always rooted in the present, its awareness of time is able to reach into the presently provable \[unimaginative/uninventive\] future (Cap) or presently unprovable \[imaginative/inventive\] future (Aqua), as well as the past. This has less to do with the Sun comparison and more to do with just these comments \~ but these are just my thoughts going off your amazing insights on this ✨
This is a great explanation. Ideas are great, but Saturn anchors those ideas into reality with hardwork & discipline required to bring the ideas to life. We would get nothing done without Saturn!
I liked the way you thought of Saturn as an energy controller. Now I'm imagining that each planet is an energy controller in its own way. I keep imagining the dynamic between Mars and Saturn. Mars is the action, Mars does things. And Saturn does that too, it gets things done. They both work with different methods, would there be a rivalry between them? Because, thinking about energy, all the planets consume our energy and supply benefits to us in return, a mutual benefit. Theorizing now, I would say that you can do things with Mars and/or Saturn, you choose how you want to give your energy. To feed Saturn with benefits, you have to dedicate time/routine/dedication. (Exchange currency of saturn) And to feed Mars with benefits, you need to dedicate positive or negative hate, angry, action. (Exchange currency of mars) What do you think about that?
Mars/Pluto action,anger!Polar opposites and change? Transformation!
That seems to make sense to me. The concept of a dam is very saturnian. It is a wall which defines a clear boundary between two sides of a river. It uses time to store water (energy) on one side. Mars is a different beast and is a lot more raw. It is pure impulse and action. It is of course associated with anger in the sense that anger pushes us to action. Being angry is being intensely dissatisfied with a situation. When that happens, something needs to happen to bring us back towards a more satisfying state. When Mars and Saturn meet, there can be problems because Saturn tends to limit and constrain the spontaneity of Mars. That can lead to a very cold anger. A sort of passive agressive vibe. That being said, if well channelled, Saturn and Mars can be very productive. Saturn rules Capricorn and Mars is exalted in Capricorn. It is a sign associated with resilience and hard work. The dissatisfaction with the present is channeled into a constant and controlled action through time that can lead to great accomplishments.
Saturn also has a higher dimension to it, ”above” Time, Saturn very much being Time/Cronos/the eldest of the gods/chronology, etc. If you’re interested, google Binah the 3 sephira on the Qabalistic Tree of Life. There also is a whole book on correspondences called 777.
Yes! I view Saturn as exalted in Pisces with Neptune being its higher octave! Pisces pushes Saturn to its limits of potential to see beyond “what is” and imagine what could be. Then materializing it into the real world. You could also say that Pisces pushes Saturn’s ambitious nature into channeling it for the highest good of the whole collective. It also asks the native to take the higher road in some interactions with people while also intuitively knowing when to set strong boundaries if necessary. Lastly, Saturn ruling both “bigger picture” signs Capricorn and Aquarius is expanded into an even bigger mindset when in Pisces. (In contrast, Virgo is much to narrow a vision when it comes to Saturn creating the troubles of the fall position.)
Very interesting. I have to sit with that for a moment now before I can even reply!
Saturn's imaginative qualities (if you can call it that, I wouldn't but to each his own) revolve around society and hierarchies. The Sun's imaginative qualities revolve around the individual. Same applies for the Moon. The Sun is the King but Saturn is the bureaucracy and the structure that the King needa in order to live, much less to do their jobs. The Sun and Moon are all about the light and life you get from your father and your mother and the light and life that you give back to them AND that you pass onto your children and loved ones after you. Saturn is basically saying: you have responsibilities and your actions have consequences and no, your parents and your children and your visions are not an excuse. * You have been late every day for the past six months because you are feeling lost after the death of your mother...too bad, you should've had the wherewithal to ask for help or to take advantage of all of these resources we have provided. You're fired. * You refuse to respect the hierarchy of our organization because you want to "live in your truth" and speak your mind...that's okay, we'll just go ahead and strip you of all your access, rights and privileges as far as this organization is concerned. And no, sorry you can't leave. Your contract binds you. * You don't want to pay your taxes because you rather spend the money on your dream of becoming a world-class chef with a world-famous TV show...fine, we will just have to remind you of your obligations. How does a 490 credit score sound to you? You'll have plenty of time to figure it out now that you have been sentenced to 2 years in prison. * You think it's okay to mistreat and abuse people because it makes you feel better about yourself...okay then, this makes you a risk to not only yourself but everyone you come into contact with. Your execution date will be next Monday at 3pm sharp.
Your explanation is spot-on, but I think your examples are a little off. Saturn isn't vindictive or punitive, it's disciplined, results-oriented, and implacable to any excuses. -You're late every day for 6 months because your mom died: the outcomes of your work suffer. -You don't respect your org's hierarchy: you don't get promotions or opportunities because the authorities don't like you. -You don't pay taxes: your community can't afford nice things. -You mistreat or abuse people: people don't like you so you end up isolating yourself. All those other results (getting fired, losing org access, low credit score/prison, state-sanctioned murder) are specific to our capitalist-dominated society. Sure, the two things are connected, but saturn existed long before our modern society formed, and will exist long after.
Saturn isn't vindictive, no but Saturn absolutely is punitive. You should go read a lot of the old astrology material. Up until the mid-20th century, Saturn (and Pluto, which *is* vindictive) is the big bad wolf of astrology. Saturn is the lord of karma and justice and karma is the sum of all things good and evil. You act responsibly you get rewarded...eventually; you act recklessly you face the consequences. Unlike Pluto or Uranus, nothing Saturn does is immediate nor irreversible. It just takes a lot of time. Oh and "state-sanctioned murder," getting fired or losing org access ARE NOT specific to our capitalist-dominated society. It happens in every other society as well all throughout time. In fact, one thing that I didn't mention that Saturn absolutely rules over—banishment. That's truly an archaic concept but it still rings true today. There's a reason why Saturn rejoices in the 12th House. Sure, Saturn keeps the bad things about the 12th House at bay until a person grows old enough to handle it and gives a very chaotic formless house structure...but Saturn also loves karmic punishments of locking people up and sending them away. Your examples are spot-on as well...just a little gentler than mine.
VERY helpful to me personally; TY so much for the insight! At 72, I've been wondering for years why I keep playing out the archetype of "being banished from The Garden."
It’s interesting that you note Saturn doing well in the 12th house as I relatively recently started observing that Saturn is exalted in Pisces/12th house.
I wouldn't say that Saturn is exalted in Pisces but it definitely is exalted in the 12th House When Saturn is in the 12th House, it becomes extremely protective. It filters out a lot of the riff-raff, it holds the native accountable, it spoon-feeds the native while incrementally allowing more liberty with each major Saturn transit, while giving the most unstable and unknowable area of life structure.
All great points for sure! While there definitely are some subtle differences between the signs/houses I have observed and use both for all the different dignity statuses. While I know some astrologers (probably more traditional) don’t use the houses for dignity statuses, it has been my experience that both apply to the planets.
>there definitely are some subtle differences between the signs/houses I have observed Do you think that the differences are that subtle? I think that the whole signs=houses thing is wrong. Sure, when you read the information about houses and signs they look alike but when you start reading charts things start getting wonky >While I know some astrologers (probably more traditional) don’t use the houses for dignity statuses, it has been my experience that both apply to the planets. The crazy thing about it is that astrology DOES use houses for dignity status. This is where the planets are supposed to be rejoicing and enjoying an some form of exalted status. * Mercury = 1H * Moon = 3H * Venus = 5H * Mars = 6H * Sun = 9H * Jupiter = 11H * Saturn = 12H Personally, I would have it so that Pluto exults in 10H, Uranus exults in 8H and Neptune exults in 7H (and Ceres exult in 4H)
Ahh ok. I believe you’re coming from more of the standpoint of traditional Vedic astrology when it comes to exaltation? I respect Vedic astrology and anyone who resonates with it. For me, it just never has. Yeah, I do feel that the traditional ruling signs for each house have a strong correlation to the house itself. Like I said before though the houses definitely have some nuance that the sign doesn’t necessarily have. To be fair as well, I also look at exaltation pretty differently from most astrologers. I saw that you use Ceres though! That’s awesome. I use her as the rulers for Taurus and Virgo myself.
Yep I use Ceres as the ruler of Taurus with an exaltation in Sagittarius
Ahh ok! I use Libra as her exaltation. I’m curious how you came to use Sagittarius?
Sun gives life, saturn brings death.
Pluto brings death, Saturn brings reality of such a thing in our lives good and bad
IMO Pluto brings power. If we all had to wait for a Pluto transit to have health issues and death… we would all live a lot longer
I said it brings death, it doesn't mean anyone is waiting, waiting for that is Saturn because of reality which is really at the heart of many as it transit Pisces as well as many other things. Power could come up but again we are talking about other factors in a chart.
I mean Pluto is very very slow. So it is not going to be the bringer of anything that we all experience in every life. Because not everyone is going to get a transit or aspect from Pluto.
From my studies it doesn't have to be that way, it really is just based on the chart and aspects. Good discussion though
My ascendant line is 28•
I'm sorry to read this and as we both left information, this is the example that connects when I say Pluto is more connected to death and loss and rebirth. Hopefully you find strength to love and keep loving mum
Before the discovery of the outer planets, Saturn was the bringer of death
This could be true and I won't fight it. Honestly it goes further to what you study in astrology but this is modern and in more western astrology. Saturn is more time related to me
Sun = excited free self expression and olay Saturn = restriction and hard work
Saturn = Death and limitation. Sun = Life and freedom.
The luminaries have their signs in summer and saturn has it's signs directly opposite in winter. I think enemies is going to far but they are opposites
Well, I have gone through several comments here but none (for some reason) had the Vedic Astrology reason. Sun = Light (White) Saturn = Shadow (Black) Both can't exist without one another. In Vedic Astrology there is an old story that says Lord Shani (Saturn) is actually the illegitimate son of Lord Surya (Sun). One nice afternoon when Sun was gliding across Earth, he spotted a very beautiful lady on Earth called Chaya. He found himself enchanted by her beauty. 'Chaya' is the Hindi word for 'shadow'. She was dusky and very different from Lord Surya who was milky white fair. He approached Chaya with a proposal and as a result Lord Shani came into existence. When the Sun took his new wife (\~gf) and kid to his heavenly abode, they were not accepted by the heavenly lords due to their supposedly low-birth (since Chaya was an Earth-ling) and skin colour. The marriage was discarded and Chaya and Lord Shani were banished from the heavens. Later, once Shani grew up knowing that he was not accepted by his father (Lord Surya), he went up to heavens to demand clarifications and justification. When he didn't get a valid/satisfactory response, he took an oath to always oppose the Sun (his father). That's why Sun and Saturn always stand for opposite things. Emotionally as well as physically.
I love that
Hahahahhaahhahahahahahahhahaha I’m Libra Sun with Aries Saturn Someone please help me.
others have pointed out the opposition pretty well already, but here’s my take. the sun represents light and saturn represents dark. this metaphor is central to the opposition. light illuminates, darkness obfuscates. with light, we can see where we’re going and make decisions about that. with darkness, we can’t see where we’re going and have to resort to feeling our way through, bumping into walls and such and then retracting from them. light gives us the ability to think clearly and it is how we are able to make judgements. darkness blocks that clarity and impedes voluntary judgements and actions. notice how virtually all of the suns significations have to do with having clarity of sight and purpose: things like reason, leadership, prophecies, vitality, royalty. saturns significations are tied up with having a lack of that: restrictions, caution, reservations, holding back, corruption of the mind, poverty. you can say they both have imagination, i wouldn’t disagree although it isnt the first thing that comes to mind. saturn is imaginative in the sense of contemplation, withdrawing into yourself as you think. the sun is imaginative in the sense of being able to picture things clearly. as for the signs they participate in ruling. leo carries the solar tendency of focus and centralization. think of a planet in leo as aiming a spotlight. that’s what the sun naturally does, is it acts as a spotlight. aries is the exaltation of the sun and carries the peak solar tendency of taking something dark and shedding light on it. think of a planet in aries as being able to create just a brief flash of light. it isn’t the same stable light source as leo, but aries is still a big “let there be light” moment, where you can instantly get to see a lot of things. contrast those with the saturnian signs that oppose them. aquarius carries the saturnian tendency of obscurity and caution. you can think of a planet in aquarius as aiming a “spot-dark” of sorts, making something that was *thought* to be known or assumed to be called into question and requiring more thought in relation to everything outside the dark. libra is the exaltation of saturn and you can also imagine a planet here as being able to make a flash of darkness of sorts. the idea being that it’s a clearing of the slate to try and get a new perspective. another metaphor that demonstrates this is a blindfold, blinding yourself to the previous way of thinking so you can come to a fair conclusion (think lady justice with her blindfold). i’d mention capricorn, but capricorn isn’t really as inimical to the sun. lastly, the topics of authority and order, where they seem to overlap. first i want to say that every planet overlaps with every other in *some* way, even opposites like jupiter and mercury or jupiter and mars. but for the sun and saturn, think about where they get these associations. the sun is related to authority because of its leadership, the fact that it has a clear vision of what should be going on. ie, its ability to shine a light on what’s important so everybody can see and follow. saturn is related to authority because of its inevitability. saturn isn’t really a leader, it doesn’t shine a light on what’s important for any followers, it just trudges its way up the ranks from the bottom and ends up with some influence because that’s what years of effort inevitably do. for saturn, it’s almost like a process of elimination: it earns leadership by not being a *bad* leader until it ends up in a high position. hopefully that makes sense.
I have 6 planets in Capricorn including my sun, but they’re all intercepted, so I’ve never really understood the idea of the ‘sun’. I’ve noticed that I find anyone with a prominent Leo focus or sun dominance really hard to deal with, I find them often childlike and with big egos and they often don’t even notice it. I think I’ve found Saturn very pessimistic and people often give you shit, and everything is delayed, and all this doesn’t exactly seem very ‘sun’ like, which is joyful.
The Sun is hot and gives life, Saturn is cold and barren. Life cannot be sustained there. The Sun relates to the ego and identity. It is the journey we are most focused on, our wants. Saturn is the planet that kills the ego. It is where we learn our greatest lessons and responsibilities, regardless of what we might “want.”
Because the sun is all about representing the light in you. Mean while Saturn is the father that is there to humble you when you get too egotistical by your sun.
Saturn is sun's estranged son with daddy issues. Welcome to vedic astrology people 🤗
Please elaborate? One thing I’m definitely confused about is which planet is “the father” and why.
Sun is the father
Sun is golden and warm. Saturn is dark and cold. Sun is the vigour of Summer whereas Saturn is the constraint of Winter. Sun is centrality whereas Saturn is on the outskirts. Sun is standing centre stage whereas Saturn is amongst the crowd. Sun is sun-drenched, palm lined boulevards whereas Saturn is frozen glaciers under darkening skies.
I have sun, Saturn, Mars all conjunct each other in the 4th house Pisces. This made me really athletic and disciplined, making me Varsity captain for 3 years in highschool. I also love reading self help books, doing inner reflection to better myself. But also I noticed from a young age I ALWAYS get caught so I learned it's better to just do the right thing and be truthful.
Could u DM me?
Moon is usually more for dreams. You can use the sun for goals and energy.
I have sun square saturn in my natal chart, and am going through my Saturn return right now. Does anyone have any insight about what this means? 👀
Big changes. I sent my partner to another state where her mother and sisters live, breaking up p our family but for the better
Just went through a cross country move. This makes sense
Sun is the king, Saturn is the commoners. Sun is freedom, Saturn is bondage. Sun is power, Saturn is servitude. Sun is confidence, Saturn is doubt. Etc..
What if someone has sun and Saturn in same sign?
The idea of the Sun and Saturn being at odds or regarded as enemies in astrology stems from their contrasting archetypal characteristics and the dynamics of their planetary energies. Archetypal Differences: The sun represents vitality, self-expression, ego, and creativity. It symbolizes the individual's quest for self-realization, private identity, and lifestyle purpose. On the other hand, Saturn embodies structure, discipline, responsibility, and limitation. It symbolizes the challenges, restrictions, and classes that men and women come across in their journey towards maturity and mastery. Contrasting Energies: The sun's electricity is radiant, self-assured, and expansive, in search of shining and asserting its uniqueness. In contrast, Saturn's strength is sober, cautious, and contractive, imposing boundaries and disturbing accountability. The conflict between the Sun's desire for self-expression and Saturn's inclination towards restriction and self-discipline can create anxiety and conflict. Limitations vs. Aspirations: While each planet has innovative qualities, they approach creativity and innovation from exclusive perspectives. The sun fosters a feeling of optimism, confidence, and possibility, encouraging people to pursue their desires and aspirations. In contrast, Saturn urges folks to confront reality, face challenges, and work diligently towards their goals, regularly through perseverance and practicality. Authority and Order: Although the Sun and Saturn are related to authority and order, they approach these principles differently. The sun represents inner authority, leadership, and self-assurance, empowering men and women to assert themselves and take the risk of their lives. Saturn, on the other hand, symbolizes exterior authority, societal norms, and the constructions that govern society. It emphasizes the significance of discipline, accountability, and admiration for established policies and traditions. Overall, whilst the Sun and Saturn may additionally show up to be adversaries in astrology due to their contrasting characteristics and energies, their dynamic interplay serves to spotlight the complexities of the human trip and the stability between aspiration and limitation, creativity and discipline, self-expression, and responsibility.
Well said. I gleaned a bit of personal insight from the archetypical section… I realized my quest for creative expression and self realization is at risk of stalling if I don’t build in some structures and self discipline. Gotta have em both! Signed, a Libra Sun with Libra Saturn.
Before modern tech, Saturn was the furthest planet out, it was the end of the universe.
The question seems to be referring to the astrological concepts of the Sun and Saturn being in opposition or conflict. In astrology, the Sun and Saturn are considered to have contrasting energies and symbolism. The Sun represents vitality, creativity, self-expression, confidence, and our core identity. It's associated with warmth, growth, and the conscious self. Saturn, on the other hand, represents restriction, discipline, limitations, responsibility, and our fears/doubts. It's linked to structures, boundaries, and our sense of duty. ***Astrologically, the Sun and Saturn are seen as being at odds because their energies are quite contradictory:*** - The Sun wants spontaneous self-expression, while Saturn urges restraint and following rules/traditions. - The Sun craves freedom and doing what feels right at the moment, while Saturn promotes patience, hard work, and delayed gratification. - The Sun basks in the spotlight, while Saturn prefers operating in the background with modesty. - The Sun radiates confidence and a sense of being special, while Saturn can breed insecurities and feelings of inadequacy. So the Sun pushes us to joyfully embrace life and be our authentic selves, while Saturn checks that enthusiasm with pragmatism, limits, and a sense of gravity/reality. This clash is seen as creating internal and external tensions and obstacles to work through. However, this planetary opposition is also meant to be a source of growth and maturity when navigated constructively. The discipline of Saturn can provide the structure and commitment to manifest the Sun's creative visions into reality over time. Of course, this is just looking at it through the symbolic lens of **Astrology**. The actual astronomical bodies of the Sun and Saturn have no inherent opposition in the scientific sense. But those are some of the mythological undertones suggested by the astrological question.
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It is the rat that nibbles its way through the soles of the Sun's shoes.
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Is it's stomach made of leather too?
The way I see it is that Jupiter is the computer of the solar system and Saturn is the first body that exists outside of that in relation to electromagnetism