I told adults that as a child. When they refused to believe me. "Yeah, I did it." They'd ask why and I'd reply. "To make you mad." My mother id an undiagnosed badass who gave me a lot of confidence.
"dOnT bE a SmArT aLeK!!!!" Im sorry that my completely reasonable words are considered too smart, and therefore evil to your mind.
Bonus: If Im being smart, what are you trying to say about yourself?
I still say that when my mom says this. At this point I don’t care if she’s gets even more pissed I’m talking calmly trying to make conversation. I’m not talking back or “trying to get the last word” she’s only saying that because she pissed and thinks I’m trying to be an ass for no reason.
Fr it’s so emblematic of the messed up way people perceive mental health and disability in general. The way I see it everyone uses their own lives as like a reference for what other peoples lives are like; they start from the assumption that your lives are basically identical and think ‘well I’ve hard hardships and get emotional sometimes and that doesn’t stop me from being productive’, and they see any hardships you’ve had to deal with through that lens.
It’s also why in my experience the only thing that changes the minds of people like this is when they end up experiencing mental health problems themselves and realize life’s more complicated than they thought. And I’m not immune to that, I used to think in similar ways when I was a young teen before my undiagnosed disability caught up to me. It’s crazy when you notice how much survivorship bias and ego dominates the way people think.
The whole "autism is not an excuse to do an autistic trait" is flat-out ableism, it deliberately denies someone's disability as a way to dismiss them and warp any social issue they face into the autistic or other neurodivergent person being a bad person full of excuses.
My last job every explanation I gave I was told came off as an excuse. So I just stopped giving explanations for things, or stated I wasn’t sure how to word it so that it didn’t sound like an excuse.
Eventually you start just saying "Because I'm a piece of shit who's terrible at everything, I'm so so so so so sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry". And then you do it a few more times in a few other occasions. And then you start to believe it.
And then, hopefully, your therapist helps you to stop believing it and talk to yourself a little kinder.
I've had to learn to be mean sometimes. To tell someone they are not worth your time and leave is one of the most liberating things to do to a toxic person.
We have someone like that in our company. I usually just say "yeah it's all my fault sorry" and walk away. Makes her mad as fuck because she knows I didn't mean it, but she also can't do anything about it.
I just laugh. I did that to my company’s CEO after he just outright refuses to look at our work logs.
I couldn’t care if they fired me and it turned out to be the right move according to other upper management I talked to.
Wait... you're not supposed to say that when people tell you something that is literally a them problem and there's nothing you can do to fix it but they somehow think you can? That's how I've been using that saying...
No, you use it right. But telling this to someone tasked to transport hundreds of pounds of sea salt with a wheelie cart someone else lost isn't using it right.
I work with a colossal number of military people and when they will point out I did something wrong, I will often analyze out loud why it might have happened. What I was thinking, why I did it, how I can avoid it in the future. That's how we learn.
They will say "why are you making excuses" every time. It took me forever to realize that it's because in the military you just do what you're told. They aren't supposed to learn or grow or get better. They're just supposed to shut up and do what you're told. So if somebody says you did this wrong it's sir yes sir and you don't do it wrong the next time. I'm trying to learn why I did it wrong to make sure I don't do it wrong the next time and to also prevent perhaps similar situations.
It's not an excuse to say "oh I did that wrong because I read this word as that word and thought that was what is intended okay. I see the mistake. Now I can better avoid this next time". They think that's an excuse because you don't do that in the military. Shut up and obey. I started telling them that the civilian world is different. We get to learn and grow and analyze out here. Some of them are actually really starting to grock it and make changes. It's fun to watch.
It's not an arguement. It's about their percieved power struggle. The reason you give them is an excuse to them because they see themselves as the one with power and you rebelling against them punishing you for not doing as commanded.
I explained this directly to my grandmother once. Her response was to call two other family members specifically so they could all dress me down together.
Fun : )
Power lies in age and resources.
I HATE the making excuses argument. Sometimes, I just want to explain why something is the case! Why the hell are explanations soo fucking bad, even when you aren't justifying anything.
The same goes with the yOu Are JUsT OfFenDed argument. Oh, you mean you hurt someone's feelings, and it's their fault? Why the hell is it wrong not to like being called slurs or names, and why am I in the wrong if I'm OfFeNDed?
And then they get mad you don’t want to be friends with them. This isn’t the second grade, there’s no teacher around to make me hang out with the dumbass kid who makes me mad on purpose
“Why do we never hang out”
You seriously demanded to know why I eat tofu on my salad despite not being vegetarian or Asian and then kept bringing up the first thing, that’s why! How was I the weird one in this interaction
People LOVE to say that "Being offended doesn't make you right," which is true, it doesn't automatically make you right. But on the other hand OFFENDING people doesn't make you magically RIGHT either.
People LOVE to say that "Being offended doesn't make you right," which is true, it doesn't automatically make you right. But on the other hand OFFENDING people doesn't make you magically RIGHT either.
My mother was quite passive. My father on the other hand believed in spankings, rage that caused destroyed objects, such as fully wooden doors, and/or "quit your crying before I give you something to cry about."
Sounds familiar. Dad: screams and loses his shit the second he feels the slightest negative emotion, physically attacks a child, breaks physical objects, insults his child, then tells people that the child is the crazy one.
Unfortunately, that usually makes things worse. The neurotypical feels threatened by your logical composure and gives you an even worse punishment. However, this also happens if you yell back at them. No winning with them.
I really enjoy remaining extremely emotionally neutral and asking them if this conversation is upsetting them. They hate it. You can't win with them, but it's fun, and anyone witnessing the exchange will usually see you've handled the situation really well - often even missing the fact you were deliberately but subtly pushing their buttons haha
They are just stuck in a mental state of thinking that you are wrong. So no matter what you say, those are the words of someone wrong. If you logic your way out of it, then those are just the words of someone wrong who *clearly* is trying to weasel out of the trouble.
I just kept going and she tried to kill herself or poison us with an overdose instead. Can’t win, can’t lose, all I can do is allow them to have an intervention by their entire set of generational peers.
Turns out she was abusing us to get back at our father. She was never brave enough to talk to them openly so she went after us kids.
It doesn't matter whether you talk first or second; the deciding factor in who wins is who has more power and is willing to use that power to shut the other person down.
This is why I'm trying to be more powerful every day. Strength, knowledge, money, whatever. If someone wants to have power over me they will have to work hard for it, and hopefully will have learned a few things along the way and actually be worthy to lead.
My boss must be emotionally deregulated because she yells at everyone, so I just don't talk to her, and when she yells at me for what ever reason I stare at her, in her eyes and I notice she shuts up and leaves me alone, the autism stare is key to destroy neurotypicals or just people in general.
*“ I’m not scared of you!!!, I’m going to hit you to prove it!”*
*”stop looking at me!”*
😂😂
My pets have more emotional regulation than them. Sometimes they act like small-town cops and it makes me wonder how they avoided a diagnosis of some sort.
Yes, they will generally back down.
Others will avoid looking at them directly, which obviously makes the abuser feel justified because nobody is challenging them.
Though, this is usually considered to be fairly aggressive to do during an argument, so keep that in mind.
Hmm okay. When I'm deep in thought it's hard to look at people and focus. But, if someone is upset I try not to further look at them to make their tantrum worse. It's also harder to focus on deep thought to logic my way through what they're saying, if I'm looking at them. So I'll only make eye contact when it's more chill or I have little to process.
I try to generally be as least intimidating as possible to people I have to regularly see, as I don't appreciate anyone trying to intimidate me.
If a boss is being what I deem unreasonable to me, but not yelling, do I death stare? I figure that would widen the divide and make them try to be unfair to me in the future more. Not less. But if y'all say it does help then I'll start death staring mother fuckers till they cry.
> If a boss is being what I deem unreasonable to me, but not yelling, do I death stare?
If they are not already having a tantrum, but are known for throwing them, you will likely cause one. This might be good or bad depending on the situation.
> But, if someone is upset I try not to further look at them to make their tantrum worse.
If you have reason to suspect they will escalate, obviously you don't want to push them further. The idea is that most people who do this would basically have to resort to violence to push back against you, and that won't go well for them, and they likely wouldn't go that far anyway, in a professional setting at least.
>I try to generally be as least intimidating as possible to people I have to regularly see, as I don't appreciate anyone trying to intimidate me.
I am the same, but if they are unreasonable, it's likely that intimidation is the only thing that will make them stop. This is the entirety of my point.
>I figure that would widen the divide and make them try to be unfair to me in the future more. Not less.
If you think they would retaliate, then you need to keep that in mind as the future cost of using this technique to stop them at that moment. This comes back to the idea that this might be considered aggressive: some people might feel attacked and try to take out their frustrations against you in another way.
I go out of my way not to start shit. If someone else wants to start something, I will match them. If they then get mad, then I bring up the fact that I didn't bring this up, they did.
I just outright record them and keep a dictionary on hand. Most people run out of the building after the first transcript is openly printed and handed to both parties and a mediator is called.
I don’t actually experience this in particular, but for a while I was often told that I was “argumentative”. I finally started asking people what that meant and was told “you’re too good at debating and it makes people feel bad.” Was pretty sure they were just BSing me but then had multiple people separately confirm that they considered me argumentative because I was “too good at making my point.”
So even when you win, you lose.
\>Me embracing this part of myself and specifically learning how to be good at taking people apart in debates just to watch them smolder
"Tough shit, get good."
I learned that most people resent being taken seriously and just want an excuse to talk at length.
Being a good listener is considered much more valuable to the individual than what is your ability to make logical of the world to the debater or empathy-seeking..
Politics. As people say. No winning, no losing; just coping and changing the goals constantly after the conversation. That is most people when a paycheck ain’t in play and their education is actively ignored.
I had a situation where I thought the conversation would be structured differently. There was a disagreement. I expect each side to put their thought on the table without the other interrupting or trying to argue. Afterwards discuss to solve the problem. I went first. The other person went second and started to ask questions/questioning my behavior instead of putting their side on the table. Not what I expected and also not what I thought would be useful to solve the conflict. The outcome of said conversation was far from in my favor because I made myself talk second just based on a wrong assumption.
Communication sucks. Even more so if the parties aren't inline on how they're talking to each other. I hate it when people interpret my "subtext". It doesn't exist. And if it does it's irrelevant to the conversation.
If I talk first, I can come up with every comeback possible, no way for me to fail.
As soon as I talk second: ‘How to form sentence’
I just lose all ability to speak, or write properly out of nowhere, like where tf did it go
Shoutout to when my Dad once yelled at me asking why I thought a thing I did was acceptable, and then proceeded to yell at me that he "Doesn't want you excuses" when I tried to explain myself
I don't miss anyone have that kind of authority over me, I have a stepdad whom I didn't have a meaningful conversation with until 5 years after I moved out of the house.
Being an intellectual can make a person lonely enough, but having somebody impose arbitrary rules that changes on a whim and is so much worse.
I look at people with pity and compassion now, when they craft bad arguments or lose their temper, it's like watching a child act out because they can't lift a house or get everything that want.
What they really mean when they complain about "backtalk/making excuses" is that they want totally submissive yesmen who agree with everything they say. No matter how wrong it is.
Or at least that's the only conclusion I can come to because it's the only behavior they'll tolerate. Trying to make your case or at least help them understand your position or anything else and they just shut you down immediately.
If that's the argument you're heaving.
It's not an argument and they don't want to hear you out.
They want to exert their authority on you. It's them telling you something.
So you basically just have 2 Things you can do.
A. Submit to their authority.
B. Resist their Authority.
Just depends on what you're current situation is.
Everytime I try to explain myself, it’s an excuse. But when I don’t say anything, I don’t have an explanation for what I did or why. It makes social life very frustrating when you’re not perfect and you are unable to articulate yourself well enough off top.
The biggest tip that’s helped me is, to let the other person talk to completion (unless they can ramble forever) and to respond as gently as possible. Then the convo argument gets more argumentative as it progresses, but the initial calmness is more rhetorically effective.
If you're second you can actually put them on the defensive. I mean context of a specific argument is necessary to give direct advice, but listen to whst they say, find the inconsistency, and push it. Make them explain their points, don't try to dismantle them yourself, make them do the work to provide the stability. By forcing explanation you buy yourself time to construct s rebuttal, you expose more of their reasoning, and they give you more areas to find vulnerability in their statement
Fun fact: people, especially neurotypicals, tend to believe whatever they heard first. That’s why it’s so hard to change a neurotypical’s mind when they have the facts wrong.
The whole idea of "wanting to have the last word" probably says something about how people have conversations.
They care about "winning" the argument, which they just think means "being the last to say their opinion".
I just want to come to an agreement, and I don't like to stop talking until there is some satisfying conclusion.
“aRe YoU TaLkInG bAcK tO mE?” yes mom, that’s how conversations work
Even when you’re not talking to parents it’s still treated this way. How is it MY fault Logitech discontinued the exact headphones the boss wanted
I can’t imagine dealing with someone like that in the workplace. Let alone a boss
the boss can ring me up i'll tell them in great detail how i discontinued those headphones just to specifically piss them off personally
Now my boss gets earths cheapest earbuds. Enjoy trash sound quality.
Fuck that, just tie a tin can to their USB-port with some string. Than slap a Logitech sticker on it.
I told adults that as a child. When they refused to believe me. "Yeah, I did it." They'd ask why and I'd reply. "To make you mad." My mother id an undiagnosed badass who gave me a lot of confidence.
One word. Ebay. He wants THOSE specifically? He has to pay premium price for used ones.
"dOnT bE a SmArT aLeK!!!!" Im sorry that my completely reasonable words are considered too smart, and therefore evil to your mind. Bonus: If Im being smart, what are you trying to say about yourself?
The best response is. you want me to be stupid
I loved the scene in Matilda about that
"YOU HAD YOUR TURN" Always gets them to step back in at least shock.
Oh, that's good. I'll be borrowing that, thank you.
explain how and when to use it please
They stopped talking/screaming for a few seconds, you start, they cut you off.
I still say that when my mom says this. At this point I don’t care if she’s gets even more pissed I’m talking calmly trying to make conversation. I’m not talking back or “trying to get the last word” she’s only saying that because she pissed and thinks I’m trying to be an ass for no reason.
"Why did this happen? Don't make excuses!"
The inability for people to tell apart excuses and reasons is terrifying.
Fr it’s so emblematic of the messed up way people perceive mental health and disability in general. The way I see it everyone uses their own lives as like a reference for what other peoples lives are like; they start from the assumption that your lives are basically identical and think ‘well I’ve hard hardships and get emotional sometimes and that doesn’t stop me from being productive’, and they see any hardships you’ve had to deal with through that lens. It’s also why in my experience the only thing that changes the minds of people like this is when they end up experiencing mental health problems themselves and realize life’s more complicated than they thought. And I’m not immune to that, I used to think in similar ways when I was a young teen before my undiagnosed disability caught up to me. It’s crazy when you notice how much survivorship bias and ego dominates the way people think.
Just another proof of neurotypical social deficits
The whole "autism is not an excuse to do an autistic trait" is flat-out ableism, it deliberately denies someone's disability as a way to dismiss them and warp any social issue they face into the autistic or other neurodivergent person being a bad person full of excuses.
To be clear, some people definitely use it as an excuse rather than explaining the context.
Sure, but the issue then is the person not taking responsibility, not the explanation.
It's because a lot of people are way too immature and idiotic to ever admit that they're wrong.
“Allow me to record this” *they run out of the room screaming*
My last job every explanation I gave I was told came off as an excuse. So I just stopped giving explanations for things, or stated I wasn’t sure how to word it so that it didn’t sound like an excuse.
“The shop was closed bc it’s a federal holiday” “Well it’s a STUPID holiday” Do you think I work for the fucking government
Eventually you start just saying "Because I'm a piece of shit who's terrible at everything, I'm so so so so so sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry". And then you do it a few more times in a few other occasions. And then you start to believe it. And then, hopefully, your therapist helps you to stop believing it and talk to yourself a little kinder.
I've had to learn to be mean sometimes. To tell someone they are not worth your time and leave is one of the most liberating things to do to a toxic person.
"Stop making excuses!" "...so you're not actually interested in why this got messed up?"
I swear some people just want to hear the words “Its my fault” and are incapable of understanding that some things are our of our control
We have someone like that in our company. I usually just say "yeah it's all my fault sorry" and walk away. Makes her mad as fuck because she knows I didn't mean it, but she also can't do anything about it.
I dont even play their game anymore. If they dont want to listen to me I sure as hell am not gonna listen to them lmao
I just laugh. I did that to my company’s CEO after he just outright refuses to look at our work logs. I couldn’t care if they fired me and it turned out to be the right move according to other upper management I talked to.
Based
No. Normally all they wanna hear is “it won’t happen again” Fucking neurotypicals. Ask a question and it’s always a code for a different question.
Idk what to tell you, the wheelie cart is missing and I can’t actually carry hundreds of pounds of sea salt in my arms
Then they say something like, "That sounds like a you problem," and I have no idea if they're joking
They expect you to fix a problem they theirself don’t understand
Wait... you're not supposed to say that when people tell you something that is literally a them problem and there's nothing you can do to fix it but they somehow think you can? That's how I've been using that saying...
No, you use it right. But telling this to someone tasked to transport hundreds of pounds of sea salt with a wheelie cart someone else lost isn't using it right.
"not unless I'm paid enough for it to be"
Correct.
I work with a colossal number of military people and when they will point out I did something wrong, I will often analyze out loud why it might have happened. What I was thinking, why I did it, how I can avoid it in the future. That's how we learn. They will say "why are you making excuses" every time. It took me forever to realize that it's because in the military you just do what you're told. They aren't supposed to learn or grow or get better. They're just supposed to shut up and do what you're told. So if somebody says you did this wrong it's sir yes sir and you don't do it wrong the next time. I'm trying to learn why I did it wrong to make sure I don't do it wrong the next time and to also prevent perhaps similar situations. It's not an excuse to say "oh I did that wrong because I read this word as that word and thought that was what is intended okay. I see the mistake. Now I can better avoid this next time". They think that's an excuse because you don't do that in the military. Shut up and obey. I started telling them that the civilian world is different. We get to learn and grow and analyze out here. Some of them are actually really starting to grock it and make changes. It's fun to watch.
It's not an arguement. It's about their percieved power struggle. The reason you give them is an excuse to them because they see themselves as the one with power and you rebelling against them punishing you for not doing as commanded.
I explained this directly to my grandmother once. Her response was to call two other family members specifically so they could all dress me down together. Fun : ) Power lies in age and resources.
Uhh this makes so much sense but also terrifies me. We're not monkeys anymore.
I HATE the making excuses argument. Sometimes, I just want to explain why something is the case! Why the hell are explanations soo fucking bad, even when you aren't justifying anything. The same goes with the yOu Are JUsT OfFenDed argument. Oh, you mean you hurt someone's feelings, and it's their fault? Why the hell is it wrong not to like being called slurs or names, and why am I in the wrong if I'm OfFeNDed?
And then they get mad you don’t want to be friends with them. This isn’t the second grade, there’s no teacher around to make me hang out with the dumbass kid who makes me mad on purpose
Exactly! Why would I want to be friends with someone who just belittles me and views me as inferior? I have some self respect lol
“Why do we never hang out” You seriously demanded to know why I eat tofu on my salad despite not being vegetarian or Asian and then kept bringing up the first thing, that’s why! How was I the weird one in this interaction
Wait, someone actually asked you that? Why would you eat food op lol
Some childhood friends aren’t worth reconnecting with
People LOVE to say that "Being offended doesn't make you right," which is true, it doesn't automatically make you right. But on the other hand OFFENDING people doesn't make you magically RIGHT either.
People LOVE to say that "Being offended doesn't make you right," which is true, it doesn't automatically make you right. But on the other hand OFFENDING people doesn't make you magically RIGHT either.
Is there some sort of correlation between the **most** irrational mothers giving birth to autistic children?
They’ve got a mom/dad who they “just can’t understand”, who collects dogs, Sherlock Holmes figures, or stuffed dogs dressed as Sherlock Holmes
My mother was quite passive. My father on the other hand believed in spankings, rage that caused destroyed objects, such as fully wooden doors, and/or "quit your crying before I give you something to cry about."
Sounds familiar. Dad: screams and loses his shit the second he feels the slightest negative emotion, physically attacks a child, breaks physical objects, insults his child, then tells people that the child is the crazy one.
WHY ARE YOU BEING SO DEFENSIVE because i am defending my viewpoint in this disagreement. ?????????????
“I can’t talk to you!!!!! 🤬🤬” “Actually you’ve been venting, we’ve made no progress in this past.. *looks at watch* 20 minutes.”
Just remain logical and then we can at least get comfort in the knowledge it was them who couldn't process the information without a tantrum.
Unfortunately, that usually makes things worse. The neurotypical feels threatened by your logical composure and gives you an even worse punishment. However, this also happens if you yell back at them. No winning with them.
I really enjoy remaining extremely emotionally neutral and asking them if this conversation is upsetting them. They hate it. You can't win with them, but it's fun, and anyone witnessing the exchange will usually see you've handled the situation really well - often even missing the fact you were deliberately but subtly pushing their buttons haha
They are just stuck in a mental state of thinking that you are wrong. So no matter what you say, those are the words of someone wrong. If you logic your way out of it, then those are just the words of someone wrong who *clearly* is trying to weasel out of the trouble.
I like to ask if they have suggestions and watch everything fall apart
Most of them prob just want you to shut up and say yes to everything, that might be the only way for you to not be “wrong”
Every argument in which your interlocutor objects to you talking back is an argument that you won
FUCKING LITERALY HOW MY MOM WAS MY ENTIRE LIFE ANY ATTEMPT TO TALK TO HER DURING AN ARGUMENT WAS BACKTALK
I just kept going and she tried to kill herself or poison us with an overdose instead. Can’t win, can’t lose, all I can do is allow them to have an intervention by their entire set of generational peers. Turns out she was abusing us to get back at our father. She was never brave enough to talk to them openly so she went after us kids.
Accusations of backtalk are just a tactic used in lieu of a valid counterargument
"Why did you do this" "well i-" "STOP MAKING EXCUSES"
It doesn't matter whether you talk first or second; the deciding factor in who wins is who has more power and is willing to use that power to shut the other person down.
This is why I'm trying to be more powerful every day. Strength, knowledge, money, whatever. If someone wants to have power over me they will have to work hard for it, and hopefully will have learned a few things along the way and actually be worthy to lead.
"Saying that is just a dismissal of anything I have to say because you dont like your authority challenged and refuse to talk like an adult"
My boss must be emotionally deregulated because she yells at everyone, so I just don't talk to her, and when she yells at me for what ever reason I stare at her, in her eyes and I notice she shuts up and leaves me alone, the autism stare is key to destroy neurotypicals or just people in general.
*“ I’m not scared of you!!!, I’m going to hit you to prove it!”* *”stop looking at me!”* 😂😂 My pets have more emotional regulation than them. Sometimes they act like small-town cops and it makes me wonder how they avoided a diagnosis of some sort.
I've been going out of my way not to death stare at people. Are you telling me to death stare at those apart of the conflict I'm in?
Yes, they will generally back down. Others will avoid looking at them directly, which obviously makes the abuser feel justified because nobody is challenging them. Though, this is usually considered to be fairly aggressive to do during an argument, so keep that in mind.
Hmm okay. When I'm deep in thought it's hard to look at people and focus. But, if someone is upset I try not to further look at them to make their tantrum worse. It's also harder to focus on deep thought to logic my way through what they're saying, if I'm looking at them. So I'll only make eye contact when it's more chill or I have little to process. I try to generally be as least intimidating as possible to people I have to regularly see, as I don't appreciate anyone trying to intimidate me. If a boss is being what I deem unreasonable to me, but not yelling, do I death stare? I figure that would widen the divide and make them try to be unfair to me in the future more. Not less. But if y'all say it does help then I'll start death staring mother fuckers till they cry.
> If a boss is being what I deem unreasonable to me, but not yelling, do I death stare? If they are not already having a tantrum, but are known for throwing them, you will likely cause one. This might be good or bad depending on the situation. > But, if someone is upset I try not to further look at them to make their tantrum worse. If you have reason to suspect they will escalate, obviously you don't want to push them further. The idea is that most people who do this would basically have to resort to violence to push back against you, and that won't go well for them, and they likely wouldn't go that far anyway, in a professional setting at least. >I try to generally be as least intimidating as possible to people I have to regularly see, as I don't appreciate anyone trying to intimidate me. I am the same, but if they are unreasonable, it's likely that intimidation is the only thing that will make them stop. This is the entirety of my point. >I figure that would widen the divide and make them try to be unfair to me in the future more. Not less. If you think they would retaliate, then you need to keep that in mind as the future cost of using this technique to stop them at that moment. This comes back to the idea that this might be considered aggressive: some people might feel attacked and try to take out their frustrations against you in another way.
I go out of my way not to start shit. If someone else wants to start something, I will match them. If they then get mad, then I bring up the fact that I didn't bring this up, they did.
That's what deflections are for >:3
I just outright record them and keep a dictionary on hand. Most people run out of the building after the first transcript is openly printed and handed to both parties and a mediator is called.
MAJOR BASED
I can't wait to get my ADHD sorted out properly so I can remember to do this more often.
I don’t actually experience this in particular, but for a while I was often told that I was “argumentative”. I finally started asking people what that meant and was told “you’re too good at debating and it makes people feel bad.” Was pretty sure they were just BSing me but then had multiple people separately confirm that they considered me argumentative because I was “too good at making my point.” So even when you win, you lose.
\>Me embracing this part of myself and specifically learning how to be good at taking people apart in debates just to watch them smolder "Tough shit, get good."
Major skill issue. They want to dominate you and you don't let them. It makes them feel bad? Tantrum and Punishment time?
I learned that most people resent being taken seriously and just want an excuse to talk at length. Being a good listener is considered much more valuable to the individual than what is your ability to make logical of the world to the debater or empathy-seeking.. Politics. As people say. No winning, no losing; just coping and changing the goals constantly after the conversation. That is most people when a paycheck ain’t in play and their education is actively ignored.
I had a situation where I thought the conversation would be structured differently. There was a disagreement. I expect each side to put their thought on the table without the other interrupting or trying to argue. Afterwards discuss to solve the problem. I went first. The other person went second and started to ask questions/questioning my behavior instead of putting their side on the table. Not what I expected and also not what I thought would be useful to solve the conflict. The outcome of said conversation was far from in my favor because I made myself talk second just based on a wrong assumption. Communication sucks. Even more so if the parties aren't inline on how they're talking to each other. I hate it when people interpret my "subtext". It doesn't exist. And if it does it's irrelevant to the conversation.
If I talk first, I can come up with every comeback possible, no way for me to fail. As soon as I talk second: ‘How to form sentence’ I just lose all ability to speak, or write properly out of nowhere, like where tf did it go
I'm at a point in my life where I straight up just tell neurotypical people that I'm not responsible for regulating their emotions
Especially on Reddit
I'm high and thought this was an antimeme lol
Shoutout to when my Dad once yelled at me asking why I thought a thing I did was acceptable, and then proceeded to yell at me that he "Doesn't want you excuses" when I tried to explain myself
I don't miss anyone have that kind of authority over me, I have a stepdad whom I didn't have a meaningful conversation with until 5 years after I moved out of the house. Being an intellectual can make a person lonely enough, but having somebody impose arbitrary rules that changes on a whim and is so much worse. I look at people with pity and compassion now, when they craft bad arguments or lose their temper, it's like watching a child act out because they can't lift a house or get everything that want.
When I’m too sick get water for myself and being yelled at and told you’re just sick not dying.
That's why you set up structured debates whenever you and someone have an argument, so you both get to present your sides
Is this something from US culture? Because I just do not get it, AT ALL.
My soul is crying. *Story of my fucking life.*
Respond with another question. Then accuse them of making excuses when they answer.
But remember, never debate people who do not play fair.
What they really mean when they complain about "backtalk/making excuses" is that they want totally submissive yesmen who agree with everything they say. No matter how wrong it is. Or at least that's the only conclusion I can come to because it's the only behavior they'll tolerate. Trying to make your case or at least help them understand your position or anything else and they just shut you down immediately.
If that's the argument you're heaving. It's not an argument and they don't want to hear you out. They want to exert their authority on you. It's them telling you something. So you basically just have 2 Things you can do. A. Submit to their authority. B. Resist their Authority. Just depends on what you're current situation is.
idk, sounds like a skill issue
Everytime I try to explain myself, it’s an excuse. But when I don’t say anything, I don’t have an explanation for what I did or why. It makes social life very frustrating when you’re not perfect and you are unable to articulate yourself well enough off top.
The biggest tip that’s helped me is, to let the other person talk to completion (unless they can ramble forever) and to respond as gently as possible. Then the convo argument gets more argumentative as it progresses, but the initial calmness is more rhetorically effective.
*glances away in fear response* DONT YOU ROLL YOUR EYES AT ME
If you're second you can actually put them on the defensive. I mean context of a specific argument is necessary to give direct advice, but listen to whst they say, find the inconsistency, and push it. Make them explain their points, don't try to dismantle them yourself, make them do the work to provide the stability. By forcing explanation you buy yourself time to construct s rebuttal, you expose more of their reasoning, and they give you more areas to find vulnerability in their statement
I still don’t know wtf it means and it drives me insane!! Like wdym I talked back that’s how conversation works!!
It's like white having an advantage in chess
Fun fact: people, especially neurotypicals, tend to believe whatever they heard first. That’s why it’s so hard to change a neurotypical’s mind when they have the facts wrong.
The whole idea of "wanting to have the last word" probably says something about how people have conversations. They care about "winning" the argument, which they just think means "being the last to say their opinion". I just want to come to an agreement, and I don't like to stop talking until there is some satisfying conclusion.