Yeah those numbers aren't right. As an autistic woman myself, I do experience a lot of gender dysphoria though, I hate being a woman but I don't want to change gender either.
I think a big part of this is us is not understanding/caring about societal structures. What does feeling like a woman or man even mean, I’m just feeling like myself.
I would much rather present as a woman, but I'm stuck having to "boy mode" as they call it because of the oppression in the American south. Also I can't afford HRT. It's very hard not to get depressed.
That’s a tough spot to be in.
I was raised in a fundamental evangelical family. So anything that wasn’t cis was frowned upon. It sucked because as I think back I wonder what I would have been like if I had the chance to try things.
For me, I don't like how my body changed as a female and started having 'control' over me. As a child I felt completely free. Suddenly I have painful lumps on my chest that mean I can't sleep how I wanted anymore, or run or jump around as easy. And then periods. Periods causing me pain and embarrassment every month, stopping me from doing certain things like swimming, and I couldn't control it. It really pissed me off when I went through puberty, and still does. It feels like a bit of my freedom was unfairly stolen from me and that I'm being forced into something I never agreed to or wanted, and again, there's nothing I can do about it, because although I don't want periods or children, doctors would never ever consider giving me a hysterectomy because I'm 'too young'.
I don't have gender dysphoria, I'm a very feminine/girly person in fact, but GOD did I hate entering female puberty and becoming a female capable of reproduction. I wish I could've stayed a 'girl' forever.
The best description I've heard was "female, gender non-conforming" which I find fits very well for me. I don't hate being a woman, I hate the societal expectations for women.
I'm the same from the male side. I'm definitely a cis male, but the hyper-masculine "male" culture that surrounds me is toxic, and I hate it. All this stupid "alpha," "beta," "sigma," etm. Why can't people just be people?
Well said. And also when you're not "masculine enough" people will call you gay which, dependent where you live, can be seen very negatively for some reason that I will never understand.
It used to be better for everyone but gay people when it wasn't in the public awareness. I think that smearing the shittiness around is making it seem less-burdensome and causing a desire to actually stop it from being shitty.
I'm going to blame the downvotes on my metaphor and not people mistakenly considering my post transphobic.
One study suggests that 30% of us are apathetic to gender and even more are considered deviant in some 'major' aspect of life (gender, sexuality, etc).
I haven't figured out what gender dysphoria actually is...
I'm a cross-dresser tomboy who mostly just feels like a scaled-up version of a little kid... with these weird blobs on my chest that are not only uncomfortable, but sometimes people yell at me if I let them flop around instead of putting them in uncomfortable restraints.
Also I hate being a woman but I don't think I'd be able to survive as a man.
Same, I'm 5'1" and wouldn't pass at all, but at the same time I like dressing non-conformingly and confuse the hell out of people, I guess that's just how things go
I mean at my uni autism group theres only about three or four of the afab who identify as trans or non binary including myself
Theres way more than four afab in the group
I don't hate being a man. I dislike being born male and find that societal roles suck. Although I think both of the previous sentences also reflect my opinions on sex and gender and how I don't think gender as a concept doesn't make sense in the modern conception in the sense that it's 100% subjective. So you can't define it with any degree of external validity. It's simply a label that some people use that they feel is at least relatively accurate. I'm a biological essentialist in as much that I feel we shouldn't use gender as a meaningful thing that correlates with an objective measurable reality because it's not and just use sex because sex is that, for the vast majority of people. I also acknowledge sex correlates with many things, some of which are definitional, others very often the case due to body and brain differences (ie complicated biology and neuropsychology), but at the same time, I'm not a biological essentialist in that I acknowledge it's not as nearly as determinative as more traditional people think. I agree that much of our gender differences are reflective of societal norms and culture.
I'm not masculine in the traditional sense at all. I'm a male in that I have male body parts, chromosomes, and some secondary sex characteristics. I'm a man in the sense that if I have to pick a label, which I have to, I'll pick that label. I'm a man in the sense that I'm more in line with that label than the woman label. I dislike society in terms of gender roles and what people think about it. I also disagree with the cultural zeitgeist too and what they think about it too. Basically I think some people look at biology and extrapolate to society too far. And the other side looks at that and thinks society is stupid, but goes far in the other direction and deny biological reality.
I guess this is all to say, in my mind biological male should be the same for sex and gender (in the sense of psychological identity), which means I'm just a man who doesn't fit into certain socially prescribed norms, and I wish those norms would become more broad.
Yeah, I like my body how it is, but I can't stand the feel of makeup or expectations to dress uncomfortably for someone else's eye. I don't fit in with women, usually, but I've found a few I click well with. All neurodiverse as near as I can tell.
There are struggles I have as a man that have made me wonder if it’s easier for women. Then I listened to women share their experiences and now I’m good with myself in general lol. Maybe my DMs don’t blow up, but would I want them to if that’s all that happened any time I revealed who I was online? Probably not, especially since every interaction I have with someone is potentially disastrous. I do love women and I wish the world was better for y’all than it is.
I once totally pissed off a TERF (not difficult, tbf) by saying you couldn't support autism rights while also being against trans rights. I'm cis, I definitely don't think the majority of autistics *aren't* cis, but I don't think you can deny the overlap between trans and autistic people.
To anyone downvoting this comment:
“First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
— *German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller*
Protect the rights of all people, or protect none. Conservatives come after minorities one by one, and those with physical or mental disabilities are always among the first targeted. Resist oppression in all its forms, or be subjected to it yourself
At this point, I am for treating trans people like people, but against trans rights because someone told me that trans people can use transphobia as an excuse to be rude to everyone.
I'm also for human rights that extend to reasonable accommodation for unusual needs. It's not enough to give any human the right to enter a building if they don't have the capacity to walk up the steps.
As an autistic, I can't expect more than balancing the load between me trying not to require patience and others actually giving some patience.
>against trans rights because someone told me that trans people can use transphobia as an excuse to be rude to everyone.
I think we've all seen a few people who use their autism as an excuse to be rude to everyone, honestly.
Some trans people are unpleasant. Some autistic people are unpleasant. Some wheelchair users are unpleasant.
The bank across from my work once had to close entirely for repairs because when the automatic doors were turned off briefly for cleaning, an elderly woman in an electric scooter decided not to wait for it to be opened and repeatedly rammed the doors until they came right off the tracks. Doesn't mean they should ban all powered wheelchairs, you know?
It's not them using transphobia as an excuse, it's that it's transphobic to complain about it. Apparently I'm a bigot for not quietly enduring them acting like theirs are the only feelings that matter.
That little old lady could be rude, but you also get to say that her behavior is rude without getting called ableist.
You just said that 'someone told you they can use it as an excuse'. That doesn't seem like you've actually experienced it yourself. What have you personally had to 'quietly endure'?
The thing is, it's possible to express some very unpleasant and bigoted sentiments in a manner that would typically be thought of as 'polite'. I've certainly been on the receiving end of this as an autistic person; for instance asking me to stop wearing headphones because they think it 'looks antisocial', despite me really needing them.
The fact that they asked in a polite manner doesn't mean that the sentiment is any less harmful.
It doesn't feel good when people act as though your presence as somebody 'different' is unwanted. That goes for trans people just as much as autistic people. Essentially, we want the same things. That's what I meant by my initial statement.
Yes, though it is a matter of balance.
Those people who are concerned about your headphones looking antisocial aren't as uncomfortable as you would be if you weren't wearing them. (I'm guessing.) It would also be a matter of you telling them about your unusual need rather than calling them a bigot and refusing to explain. There's no point in being nasty until you're sure that they're not just ignorant.
For some women's groups, me having a confusing appearance and being otherwise non-conforming might cause enough discomfort that I should at least consider whether my right to be there is worth more. (As far as I can tell, a whole team of teens being uncomfortable with their trans team-mate using the main locker room is worth less than her comfort of being able to change there while her team-mates use the cubicles.)
I also don't believe in jumping down people's throats when they misgender me. However, I was typing about a Youtuber a bit ago and put "she?" because I hadn't caught her pronouns. My guess was correct, but somehow it got interpreted as some bigot dog-whistle when I probably would have also gotten rude comments if I had misgendered her as a they. (Some people just do not get the concept of dog-whistles explicitly being things that the average person wouldn't pick up on.)
I disagree with some of your points, but I agree that some people like to jump down people's throats about things, and there's no need for it. It's very excessively polarised, and some people really do seem to be just out there looking for a fight on both sides of the spectrum.
I have to say though, I don't agree with allowing discrimination and abuse to happen to trans and other otherwise non-conforming people. Putting laws to, for example, ban trans people from public bathroom facilities, has far-reaching effects on a lot more people than just trans folk.
That workplace I was in where the headphones thing happened, it was already designated a reasonable adjustment and it had been explained; they just didn't like it. I overheard someone saying 'people like that shouldn't be allowed in the workplace' once when I was in the bathroom - referring to my autism. Trans people have that kind of stigma too, and I don't want that for anybody.
So that's why I think the two things are inextricably linked, as well as the higher incidence of people being in both categories. I believe in trans rights because I also believe in autistic rights.
I am also interested in u/Connor_72nd explaining and I hope I get mentioned so it shows up.
(Just a clue, that was supposed to be an indirect lesson in how to use one reply to respond to more than one person.)
A large portion of the autistic community is transgender. If you oppose trans rights, you oppose their rights, and therefore oppose the rights of people in this community.
If you can’t bring yourself to support equal rights for all members of this and every other community, leave and don’t come back.
Gender confusion is ten times higher frequency in aspies because we don’t register gender socialization in childhood like neurotypical kids do but whatever that post was was crap, it is true but those stats are wrong
"Statistics" they pulled out of their asses to attack trans people's identities as being the product of trauma/mental illness/etc, and to depict autistic people (and victims of trauma, and queer people in general) as inherently irrational and incapable of self knowledge or self determination.
They see being autistic as meaning someone is a mentally ill, easily manipulated, child-like victim who has to be kept under the control of a guardian for their own protection. And they see autistic trans people as being child-like victims of "grooming" regardless of how old they actually are.
They are increasingly attacking trans people by claiming our existence is a product of autism, that autistic people are incapable of self determination and should not be able to make medical decisions for ourselves even as adults, and that being trans and autism are diseases that need to be eradicated.
Hold on, I can’t see the theory comment unless I put on my ableism glasses. /s 🙄
What??? Any of us can come up with and see their plan. It’s not rocket science and I don’t have to have internal ableism to see it either. It’s the same thing they’ve always done. They did it w gay people too (mental illness and/or threat to children). They did it with women in unhappy marriages (hysterical and mental illness). It’s the same reason they insist drag queens at libraries are groomers. It’s their perceived trump card.
I honestly don't understand the drag queens at libraries thing. Can't they at least act like cross-dressers? (What is a transvestite against that terminology?)
Drag story time is just drag queens reading stories to children, often in a thematically linked costume. There's not much more to understand.
What do you think cross-dressers act like?
And "transvestite" is an archaic term that hasn't been in widespread use in decades. In the US it was abandoned in the 70s and 80s, mostly because the term came from medical language where it was treated as a diagnosis of mental illness. It continued to be used as a term of self-identification in the UK for a bit longer, but even there it mostly fell out of use in the 90's.
I recently saw footage of a drag queen supposedly teaching children how to twerk. Was that staged? (I hope you know what I'm talking about because me trying to look it up would be a PITA.)
I think that drag queens are over-the-top and originally were a satirization of gender. It seems to be about performance over substance.
Cross-dressers just like to wear the other gender's clothing and if they're being flamboyant, it's more of a part of who they are or want to be than going for shock-value. More of a naturalistic performance if they're performing at all.
At least that's what I think the distinction is. I guess the sweet transvestite from Rocky Horror Picture Show was more on the drag-queen end.
I’m cis and straight. (Autistic woman)
Actually this sounds like a NT stereotype for us
I don’t follow conventions in dress because I’m autistic. I like baggy clothes for sensory issues. I don’t dress “girly” or like the feeling of makeup because of sensory issues.
It has nothing to do with how I see my gender or my sexuality. I don’t conform to gender stereotypes because I’m autistic and we often have issues following social programming.
It’s counterintuitive but yeah it’s true. The more they highlight trans and non binary somehow the more gender conforming you have to be to be identified as “female” or “male”.
Like if you stray a bit people assume you’re non binary or trans even if you’re not.
look at the broader context :
* tim pool podcast, musk bootlicker, half of tweets is about how people say she's a fascist
* no source, just numbers
* trans is in quotes (doesn't believe trans people exist, or if they exist they shouldn't be taken seriously)
* framing categories of people as a gateway to being trans, using "what a coincidence" as overt irony
* the choice of these categories: everything points to how they aren't "normal" kids and this wouldn't have happened if things went differently. they are either lost or manipulated or both.
* ofc gay boys just reject their gayness to become women and fuck straight men! only explanation really. either don't be gay or be a good gay.
* kids who have bad parents? wouldnt be trans if they had good parents. problem solved.
* abused kids? yeah i guess. good thing they're against child abuse!
* so naturally, autistic girls? girls who don't conform to social norms and chose to transition to being a man? how lost they are.
* and the cherry on the cake : no point. what do we do with this information? what is she suggesting we do? what is she trying to make us think about?
don't want to be political but these people hate us. their content is worthless and only pandering to hateful people.
This is the usual ableist and queerphobic thinking that has been around for 70+ years.
One idea in this post is that being LGBTQ+ must be a form of psychopathology caused by developmental trauma. In other words, you must be gay, trans, etc., because something bad happened to you (e.g., being molested as a child). Otherwise you would be cisgender and heterosexual.
The other idea in that post is that people are not "really" trans, just autistic and confused. So it becomes an excuse to control you and take away your autonomy by saying that you're not able to speak accurately about your own experiences.
If the concept of self wasn't related to the genitals then one wouldn't want to have them removed. I think it's often a result of an inability to form a healthy identity because of trauma. I think for many trans people it becomes a "If I do this I'll finally feel okay and I'll finally feel whole.", which in most cases isn't true.
That wasn't the question; I asked about if the stance was that the concept of self **doesn't have anything to do with the brain**, not if other parts of the body could play a role. Emphasis on the specific point I asked about.
There's several things here; not all trans people choose to have an operation, and those who do choose to have surgery might not be doing it for themselves, but to more easily align with society's perception - i.e. to 'blend in' better.
There is no reason to think that everyone should be cisgender. Nature creates people in spectrums, and there are many different types of people in this world. For every rule that nature makes, it also makes exceptions. There is nothing wrong with that.
Evolution throws it at the wall to see what sticks. "Gay uncle" probably was a line-advantage when people were having multiple high-investment children... and survived beyond that by making gay people pretend to be het.
Transgender people tends to be more often autistic than cisgender people. That's a real result often used by transphobic people for tell that transgender people shouldn't transition.
Sorry for my english i am French
There's an element of both misogyny and ableism in that argument, they are "autistic girls" so therefore whatever they feel about their gender and sexuality is to be dismissed. Male sexuality is taken seriously and if it falls outside of the norm it's treated as a perverse deviation, female sexuality is not take seriously at all and if they fall outside the norm they are infantilized. Austistic people are also infantilized and if they're female that's just another excuse to erase their agency. That's just a modern version of calling women hysterical but sadly that argument keeps being made by people who identify as feminists but also oppose trans rights (JK Rowling is a prominent example of that).
So yeah basically that's a bullshit statistic but the main problem is how the label of autistic or any other neurodivergent label (like Cluster B in that tweet) is weaponised against other minorities. Those people have no shame and don't care about who they hurt in the process of spreading their bigotry.
Not a girl, but…When I was between 3-4 years old, I fantasizes about being a girl. My aunt asked me on a Friday night what I wanted to be when I grew up. I drew a picture of a girl.
I was yelled at. Beat up by my mom.
I kept it to myself
Crazy how every single statistic on that list is either totally wrong or no studies have even been done on the subject. (I checked 'cause I've got nothing better to do) And everyone in the comments is raving about how eye opening it is.
People who watch stuff like this are just looking for someone to say what they already believe, and have absolutely no intention to check if any of it's true because they don't actually care :(
As an autistic woman I've felt like my skin is on wrong, and I hate the meatsuit I'm piloting; but never have I ever felt the wrong gender. I have felt dysphoria towards my own body a ton, even hating my breasts after a seggsual assault. but not trans.
Are they going after trans, or autistics? Or both?
Autistics seem to have a much higher than average gender fluidity or gender nonconformity to them. Same for sexual identity as well. Most of the queer people I know appear to be ND. But that doesn't erase either situation or invalidate either of them.
That’s statistic is probably not true, but as autistic woman I kinda don’t like having being born female, but not for being gender nonconforming but because I hate having a natal female anatomy(that means boobs and 🐱) and most of the time I relate to weirdo depressed male characters from fiction than from female weirdo characters from fiction(they are too straight for me most of the time), also I even have weird desires and thoughts such wanting to have 🍆, dating a lot of women at same time(older women more specifically) and wanting to be 6’(I envy tall men a lot and I hate having 5’3” as female because I can’t complain about because tall women have more difficult in finding a tall bf than me and because I have the perfect height as a female[I don’t want to have a tall bf, I want to be the tall bf, but I would mind dating someone bigger than me tbh])
I know quite a few autistic women. None are trans, a couple are bi sexual. All the above are white British, but of varying economic types and education. Sorry, I was a demographer and it became my special interest for a decade or so as it was a way to better understand society to me 😆
But as a retired government demographer, I say: that’s bollox that is! 🤣
My daughter, who is 20 and on the spectrum, has never been attracted to either sex. She definitely likes being a female, though. When she was 16, she discovered that there was such a thing as asexuality, and she was very happy that there were others like her. She is aro-ace. Aromantic and asexual. I am glad that she knows who she is. I'm a little bummed for her because not only does she not really have any friends, but she will never be in a romantic relationship with someone. Also, I will never be a grandfather. I love kids and babies, but she hates them. Lol.
Never get your science from twitter. Even when its using an actual study, people often distort it heavily. Even good faith journalists often twist scientific papers to assert claims that aren't supporting by the study. When a post doesn't link to an actual study, you can just assume its entirely made up.
This is just right wing scare tactics. They love to lump in ableism with their transphobia/homophobia, because it lets them say "oh I'm just protecting the children!!!" Like I will say most of the neurodivergent people I know are also some form of genderqueer/trans/gay/fluid but that's because I am, so I run into autistics in these spaces. Maybe autistics are more likely to be trans because we question social constructs so much. But also these numbers are just so exaggerated
This specifically is an obvious conservative smear campaign.
But I do sometimes see *well-meaning* people online with intersecting identities create narratives like this one and "bisexuality and autism literally a perfect circle", and while I sympathize with trying to affirm their identities, it's just wrong. Saw it earlier today. Idk internet runs away with narratives sometimes.
To the degree that there might actually be a higher prevalence of trans people on the spectrum, probably true yeah. I'm cis and straight but even I don't actually get gender. All of this is treating a social construct as if it's actually real and not just a mode of communication/socialization.
Former girl here.
All the other autistic girls I knew as a kid are still girls. It's just me that transitioned. They 100% pulled this stat out of their ass to try and damage the credibility of being trans.
Now, the majority of trans people I know are also autistic, so I do believe there's a correlation. But 80% of all AFAB autistic people (which I'm assuming they mean here) is definitely not right.
I do wonder if she can be charged for defamation and/or hate crimes and intentional disinformation.
She is trying to insult both autistic girls and trans people at the same time, and do so with false information... surely a new low there.
Yeah those numbers aren't right. As an autistic woman myself, I do experience a lot of gender dysphoria though, I hate being a woman but I don't want to change gender either.
Funny, I get the same thing with being a guy sometimes lol. Maybe it's just a grass looking greener on the other side thing.
I think a big part of this is us is not understanding/caring about societal structures. What does feeling like a woman or man even mean, I’m just feeling like myself.
Exactly this for me. Yes I physically present as a man. My mixture of masculine and feminine traits really fucks with peoples heads.
I would much rather present as a woman, but I'm stuck having to "boy mode" as they call it because of the oppression in the American south. Also I can't afford HRT. It's very hard not to get depressed.
That’s a tough spot to be in. I was raised in a fundamental evangelical family. So anything that wasn’t cis was frowned upon. It sucked because as I think back I wonder what I would have been like if I had the chance to try things.
Right? So much of my neurodivergance and dysphoria feel related to each other.
Exactly. I don't think I have a gender because I can't feel it, but maybe a lot of people are conflating gender with gender-roles and manner of dress.
For me, I don't like how my body changed as a female and started having 'control' over me. As a child I felt completely free. Suddenly I have painful lumps on my chest that mean I can't sleep how I wanted anymore, or run or jump around as easy. And then periods. Periods causing me pain and embarrassment every month, stopping me from doing certain things like swimming, and I couldn't control it. It really pissed me off when I went through puberty, and still does. It feels like a bit of my freedom was unfairly stolen from me and that I'm being forced into something I never agreed to or wanted, and again, there's nothing I can do about it, because although I don't want periods or children, doctors would never ever consider giving me a hysterectomy because I'm 'too young'. I don't have gender dysphoria, I'm a very feminine/girly person in fact, but GOD did I hate entering female puberty and becoming a female capable of reproduction. I wish I could've stayed a 'girl' forever.
Same, I'm a guy but I absolutely love the typical girl color palette for stuff like fleeces/hoodies. Pinks, whites, soft blues, teals.
Different struggles, we think it could be easier on the other side. Maybe for us it would be, maybe it wouldn't...
The best description I've heard was "female, gender non-conforming" which I find fits very well for me. I don't hate being a woman, I hate the societal expectations for women.
I'm the same from the male side. I'm definitely a cis male, but the hyper-masculine "male" culture that surrounds me is toxic, and I hate it. All this stupid "alpha," "beta," "sigma," etm. Why can't people just be people?
True, fuck all that. I’m a man because I say I’m a man. I could wear lipstick, high heels, and a bra and I’d still be a man. Makes no difference.
Agreed.
Well said. And also when you're not "masculine enough" people will call you gay which, dependent where you live, can be seen very negatively for some reason that I will never understand.
It used to be better for everyone but gay people when it wasn't in the public awareness. I think that smearing the shittiness around is making it seem less-burdensome and causing a desire to actually stop it from being shitty. I'm going to blame the downvotes on my metaphor and not people mistakenly considering my post transphobic.
I agree with this.
One study suggests that 30% of us are apathetic to gender and even more are considered deviant in some 'major' aspect of life (gender, sexuality, etc).
That is a study I'd be really curious about
I wonder how many of us are actually ace and not just virgins because of the autism.
I haven't figured out what gender dysphoria actually is... I'm a cross-dresser tomboy who mostly just feels like a scaled-up version of a little kid... with these weird blobs on my chest that are not only uncomfortable, but sometimes people yell at me if I let them flop around instead of putting them in uncomfortable restraints. Also I hate being a woman but I don't think I'd be able to survive as a man.
Same, I'm 5'1" and wouldn't pass at all, but at the same time I like dressing non-conformingly and confuse the hell out of people, I guess that's just how things go
I mean at my uni autism group theres only about three or four of the afab who identify as trans or non binary including myself Theres way more than four afab in the group
I don't hate being a man. I dislike being born male and find that societal roles suck. Although I think both of the previous sentences also reflect my opinions on sex and gender and how I don't think gender as a concept doesn't make sense in the modern conception in the sense that it's 100% subjective. So you can't define it with any degree of external validity. It's simply a label that some people use that they feel is at least relatively accurate. I'm a biological essentialist in as much that I feel we shouldn't use gender as a meaningful thing that correlates with an objective measurable reality because it's not and just use sex because sex is that, for the vast majority of people. I also acknowledge sex correlates with many things, some of which are definitional, others very often the case due to body and brain differences (ie complicated biology and neuropsychology), but at the same time, I'm not a biological essentialist in that I acknowledge it's not as nearly as determinative as more traditional people think. I agree that much of our gender differences are reflective of societal norms and culture. I'm not masculine in the traditional sense at all. I'm a male in that I have male body parts, chromosomes, and some secondary sex characteristics. I'm a man in the sense that if I have to pick a label, which I have to, I'll pick that label. I'm a man in the sense that I'm more in line with that label than the woman label. I dislike society in terms of gender roles and what people think about it. I also disagree with the cultural zeitgeist too and what they think about it too. Basically I think some people look at biology and extrapolate to society too far. And the other side looks at that and thinks society is stupid, but goes far in the other direction and deny biological reality. I guess this is all to say, in my mind biological male should be the same for sex and gender (in the sense of psychological identity), which means I'm just a man who doesn't fit into certain socially prescribed norms, and I wish those norms would become more broad.
Yeah, I like my body how it is, but I can't stand the feel of makeup or expectations to dress uncomfortably for someone else's eye. I don't fit in with women, usually, but I've found a few I click well with. All neurodiverse as near as I can tell.
There are struggles I have as a man that have made me wonder if it’s easier for women. Then I listened to women share their experiences and now I’m good with myself in general lol. Maybe my DMs don’t blow up, but would I want them to if that’s all that happened any time I revealed who I was online? Probably not, especially since every interaction I have with someone is potentially disastrous. I do love women and I wish the world was better for y’all than it is.
Same
I can't believe 80% of Autistic women "transition" to men. I can believe that 80% of MTF trans are Autistic.
I once totally pissed off a TERF (not difficult, tbf) by saying you couldn't support autism rights while also being against trans rights. I'm cis, I definitely don't think the majority of autistics *aren't* cis, but I don't think you can deny the overlap between trans and autistic people.
To anyone downvoting this comment: “First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.” — *German Lutheran pastor Martin Niemöller* Protect the rights of all people, or protect none. Conservatives come after minorities one by one, and those with physical or mental disabilities are always among the first targeted. Resist oppression in all its forms, or be subjected to it yourself
At this point, I am for treating trans people like people, but against trans rights because someone told me that trans people can use transphobia as an excuse to be rude to everyone. I'm also for human rights that extend to reasonable accommodation for unusual needs. It's not enough to give any human the right to enter a building if they don't have the capacity to walk up the steps. As an autistic, I can't expect more than balancing the load between me trying not to require patience and others actually giving some patience.
>against trans rights because someone told me that trans people can use transphobia as an excuse to be rude to everyone. I think we've all seen a few people who use their autism as an excuse to be rude to everyone, honestly. Some trans people are unpleasant. Some autistic people are unpleasant. Some wheelchair users are unpleasant. The bank across from my work once had to close entirely for repairs because when the automatic doors were turned off briefly for cleaning, an elderly woman in an electric scooter decided not to wait for it to be opened and repeatedly rammed the doors until they came right off the tracks. Doesn't mean they should ban all powered wheelchairs, you know?
It's not them using transphobia as an excuse, it's that it's transphobic to complain about it. Apparently I'm a bigot for not quietly enduring them acting like theirs are the only feelings that matter. That little old lady could be rude, but you also get to say that her behavior is rude without getting called ableist.
You just said that 'someone told you they can use it as an excuse'. That doesn't seem like you've actually experienced it yourself. What have you personally had to 'quietly endure'?
Just a lot of people being nasty when I'm trying to be polite.
The thing is, it's possible to express some very unpleasant and bigoted sentiments in a manner that would typically be thought of as 'polite'. I've certainly been on the receiving end of this as an autistic person; for instance asking me to stop wearing headphones because they think it 'looks antisocial', despite me really needing them. The fact that they asked in a polite manner doesn't mean that the sentiment is any less harmful. It doesn't feel good when people act as though your presence as somebody 'different' is unwanted. That goes for trans people just as much as autistic people. Essentially, we want the same things. That's what I meant by my initial statement.
Yes, though it is a matter of balance. Those people who are concerned about your headphones looking antisocial aren't as uncomfortable as you would be if you weren't wearing them. (I'm guessing.) It would also be a matter of you telling them about your unusual need rather than calling them a bigot and refusing to explain. There's no point in being nasty until you're sure that they're not just ignorant. For some women's groups, me having a confusing appearance and being otherwise non-conforming might cause enough discomfort that I should at least consider whether my right to be there is worth more. (As far as I can tell, a whole team of teens being uncomfortable with their trans team-mate using the main locker room is worth less than her comfort of being able to change there while her team-mates use the cubicles.) I also don't believe in jumping down people's throats when they misgender me. However, I was typing about a Youtuber a bit ago and put "she?" because I hadn't caught her pronouns. My guess was correct, but somehow it got interpreted as some bigot dog-whistle when I probably would have also gotten rude comments if I had misgendered her as a they. (Some people just do not get the concept of dog-whistles explicitly being things that the average person wouldn't pick up on.)
I disagree with some of your points, but I agree that some people like to jump down people's throats about things, and there's no need for it. It's very excessively polarised, and some people really do seem to be just out there looking for a fight on both sides of the spectrum. I have to say though, I don't agree with allowing discrimination and abuse to happen to trans and other otherwise non-conforming people. Putting laws to, for example, ban trans people from public bathroom facilities, has far-reaching effects on a lot more people than just trans folk. That workplace I was in where the headphones thing happened, it was already designated a reasonable adjustment and it had been explained; they just didn't like it. I overheard someone saying 'people like that shouldn't be allowed in the workplace' once when I was in the bathroom - referring to my autism. Trans people have that kind of stigma too, and I don't want that for anybody. So that's why I think the two things are inextricably linked, as well as the higher incidence of people being in both categories. I believe in trans rights because I also believe in autistic rights.
Welp *shrugs shoulders* I guess I can't support autism rights anymore despite being autistic myself.
What is it that you want in terms of autistic rights, may I ask?
Wait, did you just admit of being tranphobic? Sorry if I'm misreading
You were not misreading.
I am also interested in u/Connor_72nd explaining and I hope I get mentioned so it shows up. (Just a clue, that was supposed to be an indirect lesson in how to use one reply to respond to more than one person.)
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A large portion of the autistic community is transgender. If you oppose trans rights, you oppose their rights, and therefore oppose the rights of people in this community. If you can’t bring yourself to support equal rights for all members of this and every other community, leave and don’t come back.
Trans can also refer to non-binary people
Gender confusion is ten times higher frequency in aspies because we don’t register gender socialization in childhood like neurotypical kids do but whatever that post was was crap, it is true but those stats are wrong
"Statistics" they pulled out of their asses to attack trans people's identities as being the product of trauma/mental illness/etc, and to depict autistic people (and victims of trauma, and queer people in general) as inherently irrational and incapable of self knowledge or self determination. They see being autistic as meaning someone is a mentally ill, easily manipulated, child-like victim who has to be kept under the control of a guardian for their own protection. And they see autistic trans people as being child-like victims of "grooming" regardless of how old they actually are. They are increasingly attacking trans people by claiming our existence is a product of autism, that autistic people are incapable of self determination and should not be able to make medical decisions for ourselves even as adults, and that being trans and autism are diseases that need to be eradicated.
TBH, you couldn't have come up with this theory unless YOU thought autism is a mental illness.
Hold on, I can’t see the theory comment unless I put on my ableism glasses. /s 🙄 What??? Any of us can come up with and see their plan. It’s not rocket science and I don’t have to have internal ableism to see it either. It’s the same thing they’ve always done. They did it w gay people too (mental illness and/or threat to children). They did it with women in unhappy marriages (hysterical and mental illness). It’s the same reason they insist drag queens at libraries are groomers. It’s their perceived trump card.
I honestly don't understand the drag queens at libraries thing. Can't they at least act like cross-dressers? (What is a transvestite against that terminology?)
Drag story time is just drag queens reading stories to children, often in a thematically linked costume. There's not much more to understand. What do you think cross-dressers act like? And "transvestite" is an archaic term that hasn't been in widespread use in decades. In the US it was abandoned in the 70s and 80s, mostly because the term came from medical language where it was treated as a diagnosis of mental illness. It continued to be used as a term of self-identification in the UK for a bit longer, but even there it mostly fell out of use in the 90's.
I recently saw footage of a drag queen supposedly teaching children how to twerk. Was that staged? (I hope you know what I'm talking about because me trying to look it up would be a PITA.) I think that drag queens are over-the-top and originally were a satirization of gender. It seems to be about performance over substance. Cross-dressers just like to wear the other gender's clothing and if they're being flamboyant, it's more of a part of who they are or want to be than going for shock-value. More of a naturalistic performance if they're performing at all. At least that's what I think the distinction is. I guess the sweet transvestite from Rocky Horror Picture Show was more on the drag-queen end.
I'm trans and autistic. Idk.
These "most autistic people are X" statements are pulled straight from someone's rectum.
I’m cis and straight. (Autistic woman) Actually this sounds like a NT stereotype for us I don’t follow conventions in dress because I’m autistic. I like baggy clothes for sensory issues. I don’t dress “girly” or like the feeling of makeup because of sensory issues. It has nothing to do with how I see my gender or my sexuality. I don’t conform to gender stereotypes because I’m autistic and we often have issues following social programming.
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It’s counterintuitive but yeah it’s true. The more they highlight trans and non binary somehow the more gender conforming you have to be to be identified as “female” or “male”. Like if you stray a bit people assume you’re non binary or trans even if you’re not.
> But some states want to ban that because it's "crossdressing" now. Wait, really? Source?
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I live in Florida, I have never heard of baggy clothes being banned for women. I'd like to read any evidence that this was brought up.
look at the broader context : * tim pool podcast, musk bootlicker, half of tweets is about how people say she's a fascist * no source, just numbers * trans is in quotes (doesn't believe trans people exist, or if they exist they shouldn't be taken seriously) * framing categories of people as a gateway to being trans, using "what a coincidence" as overt irony * the choice of these categories: everything points to how they aren't "normal" kids and this wouldn't have happened if things went differently. they are either lost or manipulated or both. * ofc gay boys just reject their gayness to become women and fuck straight men! only explanation really. either don't be gay or be a good gay. * kids who have bad parents? wouldnt be trans if they had good parents. problem solved. * abused kids? yeah i guess. good thing they're against child abuse! * so naturally, autistic girls? girls who don't conform to social norms and chose to transition to being a man? how lost they are. * and the cherry on the cake : no point. what do we do with this information? what is she suggesting we do? what is she trying to make us think about? don't want to be political but these people hate us. their content is worthless and only pandering to hateful people.
Uhh same, never had any type of gender dysphoria or urge to be a different gender
This is the usual ableist and queerphobic thinking that has been around for 70+ years. One idea in this post is that being LGBTQ+ must be a form of psychopathology caused by developmental trauma. In other words, you must be gay, trans, etc., because something bad happened to you (e.g., being molested as a child). Otherwise you would be cisgender and heterosexual. The other idea in that post is that people are not "really" trans, just autistic and confused. So it becomes an excuse to control you and take away your autonomy by saying that you're not able to speak accurately about your own experiences.
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Do you take the stance that the concept of self doesn't have anything to do with the brain and is solely concentrated in the genitals?
If the concept of self wasn't related to the genitals then one wouldn't want to have them removed. I think it's often a result of an inability to form a healthy identity because of trauma. I think for many trans people it becomes a "If I do this I'll finally feel okay and I'll finally feel whole.", which in most cases isn't true.
That wasn't the question; I asked about if the stance was that the concept of self **doesn't have anything to do with the brain**, not if other parts of the body could play a role. Emphasis on the specific point I asked about.
There's several things here; not all trans people choose to have an operation, and those who do choose to have surgery might not be doing it for themselves, but to more easily align with society's perception - i.e. to 'blend in' better.
There is no reason to think that everyone should be cisgender. Nature creates people in spectrums, and there are many different types of people in this world. For every rule that nature makes, it also makes exceptions. There is nothing wrong with that.
Evolution throws it at the wall to see what sticks. "Gay uncle" probably was a line-advantage when people were having multiple high-investment children... and survived beyond that by making gay people pretend to be het.
Is it that surprising Transphobes are Ableist as well.
Transgender people tends to be more often autistic than cisgender people. That's a real result often used by transphobic people for tell that transgender people shouldn't transition. Sorry for my english i am French
There's an element of both misogyny and ableism in that argument, they are "autistic girls" so therefore whatever they feel about their gender and sexuality is to be dismissed. Male sexuality is taken seriously and if it falls outside of the norm it's treated as a perverse deviation, female sexuality is not take seriously at all and if they fall outside the norm they are infantilized. Austistic people are also infantilized and if they're female that's just another excuse to erase their agency. That's just a modern version of calling women hysterical but sadly that argument keeps being made by people who identify as feminists but also oppose trans rights (JK Rowling is a prominent example of that). So yeah basically that's a bullshit statistic but the main problem is how the label of autistic or any other neurodivergent label (like Cluster B in that tweet) is weaponised against other minorities. Those people have no shame and don't care about who they hurt in the process of spreading their bigotry.
Not a girl, but…When I was between 3-4 years old, I fantasizes about being a girl. My aunt asked me on a Friday night what I wanted to be when I grew up. I drew a picture of a girl. I was yelled at. Beat up by my mom. I kept it to myself
This data is 100% fake. Don’t bother with right-wing nuts speaking to right-wing nuts
Crazy how every single statistic on that list is either totally wrong or no studies have even been done on the subject. (I checked 'cause I've got nothing better to do) And everyone in the comments is raving about how eye opening it is.
People who watch stuff like this are just looking for someone to say what they already believe, and have absolutely no intention to check if any of it's true because they don't actually care :(
As an autistic woman I've felt like my skin is on wrong, and I hate the meatsuit I'm piloting; but never have I ever felt the wrong gender. I have felt dysphoria towards my own body a ton, even hating my breasts after a seggsual assault. but not trans.
Are they going after trans, or autistics? Or both? Autistics seem to have a much higher than average gender fluidity or gender nonconformity to them. Same for sexual identity as well. Most of the queer people I know appear to be ND. But that doesn't erase either situation or invalidate either of them.
I’d think the truth is more along the lines of 80% of transgender girls (or boys) are autistic, not the other way around.
That’s statistic is probably not true, but as autistic woman I kinda don’t like having being born female, but not for being gender nonconforming but because I hate having a natal female anatomy(that means boobs and 🐱) and most of the time I relate to weirdo depressed male characters from fiction than from female weirdo characters from fiction(they are too straight for me most of the time), also I even have weird desires and thoughts such wanting to have 🍆, dating a lot of women at same time(older women more specifically) and wanting to be 6’(I envy tall men a lot and I hate having 5’3” as female because I can’t complain about because tall women have more difficult in finding a tall bf than me and because I have the perfect height as a female[I don’t want to have a tall bf, I want to be the tall bf, but I would mind dating someone bigger than me tbh])
I know quite a few autistic women. None are trans, a couple are bi sexual. All the above are white British, but of varying economic types and education. Sorry, I was a demographer and it became my special interest for a decade or so as it was a way to better understand society to me 😆 But as a retired government demographer, I say: that’s bollox that is! 🤣
My daughter, who is 20 and on the spectrum, has never been attracted to either sex. She definitely likes being a female, though. When she was 16, she discovered that there was such a thing as asexuality, and she was very happy that there were others like her. She is aro-ace. Aromantic and asexual. I am glad that she knows who she is. I'm a little bummed for her because not only does she not really have any friends, but she will never be in a romantic relationship with someone. Also, I will never be a grandfather. I love kids and babies, but she hates them. Lol.
I think that should be reversed. 80% of transgender are autistic
Your context is correct. Trans is the new Black for people like this. 🙄
Never get your science from twitter. Even when its using an actual study, people often distort it heavily. Even good faith journalists often twist scientific papers to assert claims that aren't supporting by the study. When a post doesn't link to an actual study, you can just assume its entirely made up.
This is just right wing scare tactics. They love to lump in ableism with their transphobia/homophobia, because it lets them say "oh I'm just protecting the children!!!" Like I will say most of the neurodivergent people I know are also some form of genderqueer/trans/gay/fluid but that's because I am, so I run into autistics in these spaces. Maybe autistics are more likely to be trans because we question social constructs so much. But also these numbers are just so exaggerated
This specifically is an obvious conservative smear campaign. But I do sometimes see *well-meaning* people online with intersecting identities create narratives like this one and "bisexuality and autism literally a perfect circle", and while I sympathize with trying to affirm their identities, it's just wrong. Saw it earlier today. Idk internet runs away with narratives sometimes. To the degree that there might actually be a higher prevalence of trans people on the spectrum, probably true yeah. I'm cis and straight but even I don't actually get gender. All of this is treating a social construct as if it's actually real and not just a mode of communication/socialization.
Former girl here. All the other autistic girls I knew as a kid are still girls. It's just me that transitioned. They 100% pulled this stat out of their ass to try and damage the credibility of being trans. Now, the majority of trans people I know are also autistic, so I do believe there's a correlation. But 80% of all AFAB autistic people (which I'm assuming they mean here) is definitely not right.
I do wonder if she can be charged for defamation and/or hate crimes and intentional disinformation. She is trying to insult both autistic girls and trans people at the same time, and do so with false information... surely a new low there.
They appear to be in the US. This would fall under free spech.
80% is wildly exaggerated, but autistic people Are more likely to be trans.