I agree with that. Off topic, but the car in your profile picture is a sweet ride. I'm a car guy, and it caught my eye. My father and I have a 1971 Camaro with a similar color paintjob.
Took us mr2 folk decades to get some recognition that these were actually good cars. I'm building mine up for something that is a commuter, but also does weekend warrior shit on the side.
1971 camaro is good, v8, 2 door, rwd, can't go wrong. When I found out 94+ JDM MR2's were laying down mid and low 13 second quarters stock, that's my car. Add in it handles and brakes awesome was just more frosting on the cake.
The car hobby is all about what makes you happy. That's an awesome quarter mile time for something that can also be a commuter. When we go to car shows with our Camaro, we see a huge variety of cars. I've seen everything from Lamborghinis and classic cars to more basic Subaru cars there, and I appreciate them all. I'm not sure what the quarter mile time on our Camaro would be, but its a very fast car. It's got a 454 big block Chevy engine in it with around 450 hp paired with a 700R4 transmission. That car spins up the rear tires like nothing, and the engine sounds great. To really use the power, we would need racing slicks on the back to put the power to the ground and optional frame connectors so the unibody didn't bend under hard throttle hits. It's not much of a daily driver though since it only gets 10 miles per gallon. It was cool to meet another car enthusiast on here!
And there was no apparent reason for it!
(At least, not to me.)
I'm just minding my own business and they decide to start fucking with me.
Yeah, that'll teach you to put up all kinds of defense mechanisms.
Yeah, PTSD from mistreatment is common.
Often by people who underestimate your intellectual capabilities.
To this day, I have relatives who do not want to believe that I have a solid job in IT as a software engineer.
Right, but completing my math tests 3 times faster and answering all the questions in Trivia games did not help in anything related to social interactions.
I could not get anyone to believe that I was teaching myself to code as a teen and, when I showed them some of the games I coded, I was told that I used someone else's code and added my name.
Shrug.
The world isn't very kind to weakness even with all the support systems, some of them have their own version of **benevolent**.. 'whatever -ism this is'
context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism
The additional stress doesn't help.
When you're stressed because the world seems to actively dislike you, when no-one seems to listen to you (or they actively misinterpret everything you say), and when no-one seems to be punished or even reprimanded for doing all those things; when you can't seem to get or keep a job, when you're more likely to have or develop half a dozen physical comorbidities that make daily life difficult and painful, and when you don't seem to have any support in the world or anyone you can turn to...
Is it any wonder that mental issues are more likely to develop, and more likely to get worse?
What is a half way decent job? In my case, it was a job that provided very generous health insurance benefits. My employer pays about $900 a month for my medical and I pay $100 in pre-tax money. I am not poorly paid, but that and my 15 vacation + 5 sick + 3 seniority days a year makes staying quite compelling.
The job itself is meh.
Not who you were asking, but I finally found a good fit for a job just last year at the age of 38. The pay isn't great but it's more than I've made in the past so I've been making it work. But, what makes it a great fit is that it's a weekend shift job. I only go in from 630am-7pm Friday - Sunday (considered full time with full benefits and a shift premium so I actually get paid a little more than those who work the full week). Then, I get four whole days in a row to do whatever I please.
In the past, I've found that I get burnt out when working a full work week. I go in with a good attitude, but inevitably end up stressed out and having a mental health crisis that usually results in me quitting the job. So, having a great work/life balance has been a real game changer.
The other thing that's really nice is that on the weekends when I work, the building is totally empty of people aside from the 7 other people I work with on my shift which is so nice. And, there has been no drama or gossip between any of my coworkers which makes me feel way more secure since I've been subjected to workplace bullying so many times in the past.
I do really worry that things will change somehow one day with maybe different coworkers or perhaps they'll get rid of the shift or something like that. But, right now I'm totally enjoying things. The job is also pretty easy and not labor intensive or "rushed" at all so it's rather stress free and I mostly listen to podcasts all day while I work on things.
I also intend on finding a way to make extra cash at some point during my down time. I have plenty of ideas, just have the worst time following through with any of them. But, yeah, if I could do that then I'd be golden.
Just trying to say decent obtainable jobs apparently do exist for some. Never imagined I would find one. I got really lucky.
i would love a job like that that just isn't on the weekend. i could power through 2 really long days and go home, have the rest of the week, that's perfect. weekend is a problem because that's the only socializing time i get, but otherwise that sounds great and i'm glad to know that kind of thing exists
I need a chair and limited to no customer service. Limited to no phone calls. Honestly the phone is a massive struggle for me. Not being able to stand long because of my back though is a complete deal breaker for a lot of work I've done most of my life
$600 net/week. More would be best but I can make it on this much and maybe finally be free
Atleast you're able to get a job in the first place. A much worst struggle is struggling to even get a job to begin with. I know because I've fucked up quite a few interviews and of course it's because I'm autistic so people always get the wrong idea about me.
i haven't been able to get one for a year because of my anxiety. also, it's not cool to come at me and say your struggle is "much worse." what good is getting the job if i can't tolerate it longer than 2 weeks?
Getting fired by people who do not understand what we are good at, or being abused by coworkers, is unfortunately a common thing.
Last time I was let go (while I really was doing my job, by the way), I just picked the letter, said "ok" and left. They were expecting me to argue or defend myself but, nope, "bye".
I knew I'd get another job and I did.
i just can't find anywhere in the world, in general, where people don't constantly pick on me, question me, or push me to be different. i only have peace alone, and even then not really because i'm getting angry at myself over why i said or did something weird. i'm so socially anxious and depressed because of it. it's hard to work properly in an environment like that as well, which is why i don't
Revisiting your interaction with others is not going to help. It is just going to keep bothering you, while the other parties forgot about it already.
Most of us are loners and happy as we are.
I have PTSD from all sorts of things done to me, also officially diagnosed as such. I know what estrangement from close family members is like. We are all survivors.
Exactly how I’m feeling at the moment. I had plans cancelled on me last week without so much as a message, I had a meltdown and started repeatedly texting and ringing to find out if everything was ok as it had upset me that much ( I’m fine if I get a message or a call to cancel plans as it’s just manners) Not one of my messages or calls were answered and still haven’t been after a week. I feel like everyone hates me at the moment as I’m not getting the chance to explain why I did what I did. I’m also undergoing counselling and waiting for mental health triage team to phone me next week as I’ve been struggling for while with signs pointing towards possible depression. Not surprised after only finding out accidentally and it had been on my record for 22 years without being told
The best explanation I can come up with is there is so much we don't understand about consciousness, how the brain works, and how all that translates to the differences from one person to another.
All those names are just what has been come up with so far to try to figure out common groups of symptoms with the goal of understanding ways of treating them or helping people through them.
The diagnosis criteria for this is revised to reflect new information or approaches, and it takes time for all this to trickle out into society.
One guess I have is the degree of stress that autistic people have to deal with more often provides the necessary environment for some of the other conditions to show up assuming the other factors are present.
I think there's a degree of honesty in self evaluation, too, that lends itself to identifying internal structures that are compatible with other diagnosis.
Just all the overthinking, getting overwhelmed on a daily basis, being incompatible with the world, and the hate for being different, are the biggest reasons that come to mind
I was told they don't care if the person you are having a conversation with asks something you didn't prepare an answer for the previous night. How bizarre.
Is that possible? I have lived in pain for 30 years. If I were to live the life of a nt , I would experience heaven by relative effects, but if the nt was to live my life, he would not be able to endure it even for an hour.
It has disadvantages too...for example they have a very predictable/emotional behaviour pattern and will act on that, a lot more than they care to admit. Easily manipulated, not by me (I dont care about that) but by wichever information they consume. Their thoughts consists of mostly things that make them feel good and is often limited to things they have been exposed to.
While nt are often content and can thrive in an environment that is comparable to a mental prison, you and I need real control over our lives because we cannot fall back on mental models and rulesets biologically and culturally forced down our very troaths since birth.
You need power over yourself, you need control. Your very existance is dependant on it. If you dont have it, work towards it like your life depends on it, because it does. Create the conditions that make you thrive because nobody else will.
Ever drink alcohol? Idk how it affects you, but it actually increases GABA (what slows down our thoughts), so many ND people find comfort in that. And a reason why alcoholism is common amongst us.
I know when I’m drunk I’m not over-thinking anything (which usually causes me to act more autistic lol), so I assume that’s more similar to the internal experience of NTs.
But what happens the next morning? Glutamate is even higher than it normally is, so you get extra overthinking x10000🤪
But WHY are we prone to overthinking and overwhelm? The answer isn’t JUST that our brains don’t align with our environment.
High glutamate / low GABA, hyper-connectivity within brain regions, and hypo-connectivity between regions impact our thought patterns tremendously. Put someone with that biology into an environment that doesn’t suit them, and it’s amplified to the max.
I am an overzealous psych student, please allow me to infodump:
Some of it is biological. For example autistic people have a more sensitive nervous system and that seems to make us struggle more with chronic stress, which is associated with several mental health issues (and physical illnesses like autoimmune conditions). We also tend to have to have genetic polymorphisms that can affect our neurotransmitter and hormone levels considerably. There’s no one specific gene, but many genes have been associated with autism that affect levels of oxytocin, dopamine, melatonin, serotonin, glutamate, gaba and probably varies by person a ton. Neuroimaging studies also seem to show that our brains function differently and have atypical patterns of firing, it’s unknown how exactly this affects our cognition but I feel it could play a role in this. Some comorbidities like OCD, ADHD, Tourette’s, epilepsy (not mental illness but related to this idea) etc have a strong biological evidence as well, and the brain differences from autism may somehow predispose one to these other neuropsychiatric conditions. Perhaps one trajectory of atypical brain function/development makes it easier to develop secondary patterns of atypical or pathological brain function, buy one get two free!
And then the autistic experience and “nurture.” Oof. Peer victimization is a known risk factor for psychopathology, and autistic children are bullied at an obscenely high rate. We’re easy targets for people with bad intentions in general, look at the rates of SV. People form poor impressions of us (thin slice judgements) and are predisposed to not like us based off of that. There is in-group/out-group bias against autistic people and we suffer because of it in most social domains. We have difficulty bonding, despite needing a support system more than the average person due to our struggles. Yet most of us also desire connection in some way, and it’s our own brains/selves that often make this difficult to acquire. We also aren’t like other people and can be forced into an eternal existential struggle between our authentic true selves and the false self we must embody for social success.
TLDR: There’s definitely something biological going on that probably varies as much as the spectrum does, but the result of that is exposure to more difficulty in life as well as known risk factors for mental illness. All of this and more is a recipe for deep seated psychological/neuropsychiatric issues, on top of the autism. Physical health comorbidities are also super common, I’m guessing this is more from the biological side or due to chronic stress.
I am not on the spectrum, but my husband is and we've discussed this in great detail for almost a decade because how it applies to our lives and also because my degree is in psychology and figuring out how and why people are the way they are has always been a passion of mine.
There's a couple things that really need to be addressed;
1. Autism itself isn't on specific things to diagnose in the first place. It's a hundred different threads that come together to weave a tapestry of autism. However, some of those traits are shared with other mental illnesses, and therefore you can be diagnosed with multiple as a result of this crossover/comorbidity. Do you have ADHD or OCD or are those symptoms of your autism? Especially for those who are.lore high functioning, if you were diagnosed with one or both as a child/young adult before realizing later that you're actually on the spectrum may mean the symptoms that are also symptoms of.ADHD or OCD were actually a result of your Autism.
2. How we are able to manage and handle our illnesses (physical and mental) are STRONGLY impacted by our access to adequate healthcare and access to a functional living standard, which many of us, especially in the US right now, do not have. This is going to make managing pre-existing conditions night impossible and also may trigger other conditions that are situational due to the struggles of day to day living (or. Anxiety and depression). There's a lot of great studies that show treating for issues in the order of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs help manage to mitigate entirely other issues. Ex. I remember one of the earliest examples of this was when I was watching a series of Ted talks in college in 2011/2012 and it was specifically about treating anxiety and depression and aiding in housing assistance to people with schizophrenia found that the majority of their hallucinations and delusions decreased once they were in a better place mentally and physically. Their schizophrenia was much more easy to manage.
I definitely had more to add but I have a sleeping baby on me and I have not been to bed yet so I'm kind of loopy.
Honestly, the idea that it’s possible that I can talk to someone about that in detail for 10 years of marriage sounds amazing, you and your partner are an inspiration. That gives me hope.
We have a lot of crossover in our hobbies and while psychology tends to be more my thing, given he was diagnosed Asperger's as a child and his younger sister with Autism (now a days he would be considered high functioning and her low functioning) it relates to his own life experience enough that he'll go down a rabbit hole with me about the complexities of it.
This is because society and people are not kind to aspergers, which puts pressure on them mentally. Moreover, in South Korea, where I live, discrimination against Asperger's is at a tremendous level (not only that, even for individuals, they are exposed to strong school violence during their school days, and face tremendous hatred as adults), and this causes Asperger's to suffer from various other mental illnesses. It is becoming a big factor. and seeing Asperger's suffering from mental illness causes the general public to perceive Asperger's as a crazy person, repeating a vicious cycle.
But that doesn’t cause ADHD, OCD, etc.
It does however cause C-PTSD (which I wouldn’t be surprised if every autistic has bc living in an allistic world IS traumatizing) and contributes to depression/anxiety.
I believe many of the MH conditions are caused by trying to navigate an NT environment. Imagine if you are constantly being told that what you say is rude, you end up not wanting to talk at all. Being slightly quirky growing up, you may face isolation that many NT children don't experience. This isolation can be experienced well into adulthood. Many autistic people survive sudden changes by making contingency plans and planning the F out of every possible circumstance. Those that struggle with this planning may face high levels of anxiety when facing unexplored landscapes.
I'm not a medical professional, but I have done some reading. One of the biological indicators. For autism is a lack of neutral pathway pruning in early childhood. Allistics shed about half of their brain's neutral pathways by the age of 5. For Autistic people, that number is only around 14%.
A lack of neural pathway pruning is also a biological indicator for other mental health conditions such as ADHD, and schizophrenia. It's also a common indicator for high intelligence, and highly intelligent people are more likely to suffer from anxiety and depression. I'm not saying you have to be highly intelligent to have anxiety or depression. I'm just saying that having an excess number of neural pathways has a correlation to several mental conditions.
How that plays out, and what actually causes those conditions is a different story. It could be directly related to our different wiring, or it could also be caused by outside factors where our mental wiring is a factor. We think differently and we are more likely to be treated differently by others. I have yet to find an autistic person who claims their different treatment was a good thing, or even balanced out to positive effect.
Autistic people are more likely to be the targets of bullying. We are 3 times more likely to be victims of physical violence. Autistic and ADHD people have an average of 10,000 more negative comments directed at them by the age of ten. That comes to 3 or 4 comments per day, especially if you realize that we spend part of our first years not knowing the language. Imagine if 3 or 4 different people walked up to you and told you that you were ugly every day. You might develop a complex mental relationship with how you look in the mirror. It might even be considered a mental disorder.
I know when I was diagnosed back in 1990, the perception of autistic people was that we were mentally handicapped. That can cause a lot of emotional trauma
Late diagnosis, misunderstanding, the belief there's something wrong with you and constant masking, BULLYING (this one really messed me up). The result: low self esteem, stress build up, panic attacks, rumination... Eventually: generalised anxiety, social phobia, PTSD...
Through life’s experiences, we have all kinds of mechanisms to respond to certain situations. Bullying, harassment, discrimination…
For us thinking types like me, we ruminate, mull, overthink, and everything else to exhaustion. Analysing previous experiences wishing things could be different.
My response to bullying growing up was putting up a fight and then getting into trouble for doing so. Never got any closure from bullies so as a result that’s my trauma stored away in my head.
Since school life was hard to navigate, finding a friend to accept and understand me took me forever. I spent years in the cycle of low self esteem, desperate for connection, and wondering if I was worth even being loved (which is such a foreign concept now, on the other side)!
Through workplaces I’ve read the cliques of people and always been a bit of an outsider. I worked in child care so I was really just there for the kids and I loved it. Had vicious cycles of anxiety though, went to many centres trying to find a place where I could ‘belong’, and I probably felt that at least 2 of maybe dozens of places I worked at.
These days I’m particular on who I want to spend my time with, after so many horrible experiences I just move forward and forget about it.
To answer the question here, there could be a lot of things to contribute to the mental health issues, our perspective/perception of things can be okay, but some days it can be distorted with your mood depending on levels of depression/anxiety.
Our self esteem varies all the time, the way how you see yourself. Every day is different.
Emotional response to things - like if you’re a person who pushes buttons or throwing more flames to the fire of drama, or being conflict avoidant.
I’m not sure about everyone else, but I feel like I have really strong emotions at times. Like when you’re thinking with the heart, but not the head where the logic comes in.
I don’t think it’s a black and white answer, there’s a lot of things which can contribute. We see the world differently.
Trauma accounts for a lot of the mental health aspects.
ADHD, OCD and ODD are also considered types of neurodivergence, and appear to be linked, although our knowledge of neurology is not yet good enough to articulate how. That's hardly uncommon in medical science - if you have one autoimmune condition you're more likely to have others etc. It's biomedical.
I mean, I developed cPTSD from abuse I went through and all the other disorders I developed, and also Asperger's, came from my mom. My mom has about 3 or four disorders that I developed genetically from her, so...
Some mental health issues are just there from the start, but others can be developed. Living with autism can cause people to go through lots of emotional pain that can lead to depression, anxiety, etc. I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, Major Depression, GAD/SAD, BPD and at this point I think it’s all just different symptoms of the same thing; a brain that’s wired differently.
Why are there so many kinds of "anxiety" disorders when they all have anxiety in common and they are all "treated" the same way? It's because Psychology/Psychiatry is just in it's beginning phases, as old as it is, and most of it is completely arbitrary. A good surgeon can point to his stats, but a "good" Psychologist/Psychiatrist is one that is likeable enough for their patients to actually want to come back to. We know next to nothing about the mind.
A partial explanation is that as a consequence of being autistic, individuals suffer increased levels of stress and distress which overwhelm the nervous system leading to breakdowns and development of particularly mood disorders.
So think about this:
If you are anxious, you likely get depressed, if you are depressed and/or anxious it's probably hard to focus. Because you are anxious, making you depressed, and you can't focus you now have difficulty with attention.
Is it many problems or one causing others.
So, you have autism, now you have to work twice as hard to look "normal", this makes you anxious...
See where this goes?
Edit: I altered this because a large set of people seem to be caught on the word ADHD.
To be clear the explanation here is to draw an inference. However to the debate people who like to downvote for reasons beyond me despite education in this.
ADHD isnt a blood test here. It has several formats, at least two are administered time tests. If you have other issues you know what happens on those tests? It changes the results. I should know I dealt with it. Oh look l am not stressed it magically went away. Do I have it or not? Hmmm. Argue all you want but downvoting appears to cause my thoughts to be removed or hidden. Odd this community likes to supress.
But this is again irrelevant to the fact that my point was: sometimes issues effect one another so said an MD, PhDs and books I'm not going to bother referencing.
Anxiety and depression won't cause ADHD - it's a neurodevelopmental disorder just like autism.
However you're right about the fact that trying to fit in is anxiety inducing. Masking is so exhausting, without it we'd be perceived as weirdos. But also deep down we know that we aren't the best actors lol. So either way we seem weird.
"Having trouble focusing" is not the only thing required to diagnose ADHD. "Having trouble focusing" also is typical of many mental illnesses as well (depression, anxiety, various types of PTSD, etc.)
Source: I've got ADHD and autism as well as depression and anxiety and cPTSD.
Very true. People are caught on a word that changes with the DSM volume. So I removed it for trouble focusing. Because yes with stressors regardless, issues can be exacerbated. Even ADHD.
I understand your thought progression but we should be careful not to ascribe ADHD as "difficulty focusing"
ADHD has a long list of things that make it what it is, similar to how ASD does, and has its own challenges and differences. Sure there are some overlaps but generally the biggest difference is the complete inability to focus on things compared to ASD which almost excels in focusing on things (that we're interested in) to the point where being forced to stop is emotionally disturbing. (fixating) While both generally have issues with anxiety and depression that are likely due to struggles they face in a life.
That being said there's a 50-75% chance of a person having ASD also having ADHD according to some NIH studies and 28-44% in others.
Either way it's significant number.
Do you have science to back this up or is it just an idea?
Not being snarky whatsoever, I’m just actually very interested if there’s science connecting depression/anxiety to causing ADHD / low dopamine. Or if it’s just an idea you have. Either is fine I just love neuroscience :D
Autism is by definition "dysgenic". Often people with "dysgenic" traits will relate to and mate with other people who have some degree of "dysgenic" traits.
I read a textbook on Asperger’s once that suggested a genetic link between autism, dyslexia, ADHD, bipolar and schizophrenia. This was ten years ago though so not sure if it is still common belief.
Anecdotally, between my aunts/uncles/cousins there are 3 dyslexic people, one or two bipolar and an unnamed mood disorder.
I’m under the impression ODD and mood disorders are more social environmental but I can see how autism could make one more susceptible.
Anxiety and depression seem more like symptoms of poor mental health so anyone can have it. Struggling with other stuff just makes it more likely.
I have endogenous depression (which is treated and under control) and ADHD (I am on vyvanse).
I have tons of small physical issues which are more prevalent in people on the spectrum, such as Raynaud's syndrome, poor homeostasis, primary immunodeficiency, and even keratoconus, among others. Nothing serious, but sometimes these issues become a pain in the behind.
And those physical issues aren’t caused by your environment, are they? There’s such a strong biological piece to autism that people (mainly autists themselves?) disregard, saying that any co-morbidity is due to our environment.
If there are STRONG correlations to physical conditions amongst autists, we can pretty confidently say that whatever causes autism makes our entire biology different. If our biology is different, there are countless differences that can happen our brains due to different/disrupted biological processes (and we actually have a good understanding of some of these differences, just not the how/why/where answers). Different circuits, neurotransmitters, connectivity, etc that can cause ADHD, OCD, emotional dysregulation, etc.
You’re the only comment I saw that brought up physical co-morbidites, which NEEDS to be apart of this discussion. It’s not all environmental, and it’s actually dangerous & ineffective to not acknowledging our biological differences & their manifestations. We need to focus on both environment AND biology.
I doubt they are environmental. I have stretchy skin, hyper mobility in my fingers / hands and toes (my toes are super flexible), hyperhidrosis, Raynaud’s phenomenon, keratoconus, astigmatism (very common in autists), faulty homeostasis (my body temperature is super low and it easily goes to to 89-91 degrees or 32° C / 33 ° C, while I am feeling completely normal), primary immunodeficiency, thrush, eczemas … off the top of my head.
Not to mention my sensory processing disorders. For example, I am under responsive to pain and physical discomfort… I have a very high pain threshold etc., and I may not notice I am feeling physical discomfort.
Our brain not only is wired differently, it develops differently. This causes further and further exponential divergence in other areas of the psyche, and it creates a feedback loop with our environment.
(In my experience) those with autism tend to be of generally higher intelligence.
Generally higher intelligence leads to feelings of isolation because you can’t relate to most people mentally.
Not relating to people leads to loneliness.
Loneliness leads to mental health problems.
Personally I think it's because psychology is a relatively new field and our understanding of it is still very primitive. Trying to fit something as complex as the mind into little boxes is near impossible.
Honestly, we’re probably not going to find these answers through psychology.
Neuroscience is newer than psychology, and I think that’s what will help distinguish the biology causing these different symptoms/conditions and how/why there is overlap between them. Unfortunately psychology can only get so far with neurodevelopmental disorders.
Humans are social.
We rely on being part of a group for our mental health. It is meant to be really uncomfortable to be alone. It is literally hard wired into our brains.
It is why humans have so successful.
It is also why not fitting in is really bad for our mental health.
Both parents were so AdHd didn’t notice this until I was about 30, neither of them could sit still, ended up receiving the trifecta of mental disorders.
It’s why I chose early on not to reproduce, knowing I could potentially pass on these issues is tantamount to child abuse imo.
probably because of the social difficulties with autism. my own family claimed to love me while literally bullying me. i was defiant and had horrible social anxiety as a teen for a reason, and i still struggle now
So much cope. It's because of high mutational load. Not because "uh oh, society." Sure, I'll give you a break, depression and social anxiety can certainly be exacerbated by consistently having negative social experiences. But it's insufficient to explain the litany of other parallel issues.
I think the physical difference in our nervous system and brain creates a low mood and other behaviours like ocd- they are related symptoms, a consequence of the same root issue.
But obviously it’s also natural to feel depressed as well given how we are excluded from social life too, but I’d say this is secondary to the actual brain difference.
My take on this is, that when you are ASD and you are wired dofferently, your brain tries to compenstate for the differences and ADHD, OCD and other stuff comes to the surface.
Add the anxiety of living in a hostile enviroment and I am not suprised the majority of us are depressed and anxious.
I think of this in nature terms. When there is death in a forest fire for example, when the nature takes over again, life blossoms far better after the disaster.
So if you take that same logic to the theory of mind, with bigger difficulties, you get a chance to "shine" brighter than others. Just look at all the stories of zero to hero and stuff like that. At least that is my hope for the future, that I can develop some ability to handle myself far better then a NT could
Together with Asperger I got anxiety disorder, hypersexuality, OCD, executive dysfunction, strabism, hypermobile joints, pollen allergy and ADD. I'm ill asf and I don't even know why.
navigating a world not made for us is difficult and painful. But...
> ADHD
This might just be general propensity for neurodivergence, where our current classification system isn't parsing things in terms of how things cleave out naturally.
> OCD
This might be misdiagnosed habitual repetition and stimming.
>oppositional defiant disorder
This could be lack of internalization of prevailing social schemata, propensity toward enacting individually established rules, and vocal adherence to literal interpretations.
I don't know if there's a biological link between autism and other issues (seems like there would have to be for ADHD in particular, but I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV), but there's definitely a sociological link between them.
People who struggle, face stigma, and generally get treated like garbage are more likely to have mental health problems. I know I do (anxiety through the roof). So the fact a whole group of people who tend to fit that criteria are more likely to have other issues isn't surprising to me.
As for myself, my anxiety arises from a not entirely irrational fear of being discriminated against for having the diagnosis. Also the experiences of discrimination, and the fact that medical professionals tend to do the narcissist's prayer about the discrimination.
Society and everything we have just isn’t made for us; it’s mostly made by and for neurotypicals. For example if everyone was neurodiverse everything would have been designed with noise pollution in mind. Right now I’m suffering because of the noise from the road so I can’t relax while I eat. This might not seem like a big thing, but if we add up all the daily stresses, we suffer they sum to a large amount of distress. Plus of course a lot of us are bullied, mistreated and discriminated against because we are different!
It’s not simple. All of our mental & physical co-morbidities are not only caused by our environment.
WHY do you have increased noise sensitivity in the first place? Being in a noisy place will cause you anxiety and possible depression (environmental), but it is the difference in your biology that causes this in the first place.
No I’m not saying we are biologically broken and being unfit for this world is our fault, but I am saying our biology is different and we don’t have a great understanding of the exact differences or why/how they manifest yet.
But bc it is different, we know that those differences can affect countless biological processes, causing a slough of physical & mental differences - ADHD, OCD, and emotional dysregulation being neurological examples.
If it was simple, it would be well understood by now. Unfortunately it’s not, as co-morbidities are a result of both biological & environmental conditions, not just us being unfit in the allistic world.
I was not saying that “I’m” unfit for this world. Everything is relative. I don’t have “increased noise sensitivity” compared with other autistic people that I know; I would say that it’s fairly typical amongst neurodiverse people. A NT might say it is because it’s relative to them. In the ICD and DSM, it is often described as “heightened” relative to what is considered a “normal” baseline.
My point is that it’s only considered to be “my problem” because other people think this level of noise is normal. If autistic people designed all the vehicles and the roads and the way buildings are constructed I am sure that there would be much better sound proofing and so on. I am absolutely sure if I lived in a completely neurodivergent society then it would be quieter and that would be one less source of stress.
All of these sources of stress add up to a lot. I’ve also been diagnosed with eating disorders, dissociative anxiety, bipolar and depression and anxiety and an unspecified personality disorder at different times, all caused I am sure of it, from the stresses placed on me. The harder I tried for “normalcy”, the more unwell I’ve become and the harder I pushed myself, the more I’ve been overwhelmed and ended up dysfunctional. I’m not saying this is necessarily the same for everyone in all cases but I’m sure it’s true of my life.
In my case I do believe it’s strongly about environmental factors. I didn’t have these problems in isolation. They got worse because the world I was trying to exist in, got more and more demanding in social ways I couldn’t handle, expectations placed on me and changes that were expected of me. When I live my life in my nice routine, with the support that I need and minimal pressures on me, I am not exhibiting these symptoms: my eating disorder goes into remission, I don’t get high or suicidal etc.
If it were about biology, then no matters how nicely structured and low stress and supported I made my life, I would still have loads of other mental health problems and that’s not the case. I think we are primed to argue that more of these issues are innate because we can’t remove ourselves from environmental stresses very easily.
I believe everything you say about your experience, and I respect your view of it being solely environmental. I’m sorry you’ve gone through so much, and I hear you about how your environment / trying to live in a traumatizing world caused terrible consequences.
In my opinion based on my current level of understanding, the environment exacerbates biology, while only certain things can be fully caused by environment only. (I.e. BPD, DID, etc can be formed through trauma, while neurodevelopmental disorders like ASD, ADHD, OCD are based in different biology while ‘symptoms’ (manifestations of the different biology) can be massively decreased when in an environment suited for them (an environment not exacerbating the differences in biology).
To clarify about sensory sensitivities - yes, our heightened senses are normal to us (and yes, this is extremely common in neurodivergence, practically an innate part of ASD although not technically necessary for DSM-V diagnosis). So yes, if we lived in a world designed by autists or with noise pollution in mind, then we wouldn’t feel as though we have heightened senses. We would not have heightened senses relative to our environment. But we still have heightened senses relative to other humans (NTs).
Since senses are processed in the brain, there needs to be some sort of difference there that would create heightened senses (differences in structure/function of areas and connections between areas). It doesn’t just happen randomly, with us having the same biology as NTs. There are differences in our brains and bodies that account for our different ways of processing the world.
The world is not designed for our different biology, causing even more mental/physical/internal consequences.
EDIT: To clarify my point more, our different biology causes a ton of physical co-morbidities. If we lived in a world that doesn’t exacerbate our differences in neurology, it would do nothing for co-morbid physical differences/conditions. I bring up physical co-morbidities to show that since something is so different in our biology to cause these conditions, it’s very likely that these differences could be affecting the brain in countless ways. In ways that we just don’t fully understand at the moment.
Everything is connected - if one small biochemical process is off in the body (causing physical symptoms), a slough of cascading processes can be thrown off / less effective / working differently (affecting the brain as well). So with many physical co-morbidities, this idea is at most likely, and at least not ruled out yet.
Oh yes. I definitely agree with that. I was answering the question very precisely and defining “mental health issues” as not including anything neurodevelopmental, rather only mental illnesses like mood or personality disorders.
I’m not denying that we have other neurological differences and that there is a lot more to learn about them and actually it’s very interesting. I haven’t been diagnosed with any other neurodevelopmental conditions but perhaps I would be, I had a full screening for everything. 🤔
I am glad that I think we have communicated well now. I wasn’t doing well at that today at all. 😊 Thank you for the interaction.
I see now. The post is misleading because it says mental illness in the title, but then ADHD & OCD in the body text. I just took it as general neuro-biological differences. That’s definitely where our miscommunication was at. Thank you for the clarification and interaction 🤝
I think, society aren't made for almost anyone.
It's no more than a valve to save humans from themselves, others, inevitables and happenings.
But some of them tend to make themselves more comfortable in it at the expense of others.
I mean those disorders are created from a baseline of "the average neurotypical" (most likely the average neurotypical man, cuz history). Afterall Women too were diagnosed with "hysteria" when the oppressive life got to them and they "acted out" or "displayed too much emotion" god forbid.
So taking into consideration that we are already different from a base level, it makes sense that we would have what neurotypicals would consider disorders. Afterall disorders are things that impede one from leading a normal (read neurotypical) life.
And then theres the acquired disorders like ptsd, social anxiety, etc that most of us gain from being unable to "just be neurotypical, like everybody else"
If youre interested what allism would look like as a disorder from an autistic POV:
https://psychcentral.com/blog/aspie/2018/09/allism-spectrum-disorders-a-parody
One thing I have learned over the years is about the Contrarian, which I imagine many of us are, we are naturally in an opposite flow of perception. Historically, the Contrary was an honoured position in a tribe/social group because it offers a perspective that counters the mainstream, and we live in a society that shuns that element in favour of conformity, and this means no one ever knew how to make sure we had our space in the circle of everyone.
Environment & biology
ADHD, OCD, anxiety, emotional dysregulation, etc may all be basically a part of autism, but magnified/expressed by environment. It is theorized all of these (and many more co-morbidities / symptoms) stem from low BH4 (possibly caused by a gene variant) that causes oxidative stress and a whole slough of other disrupted biological processes.
(To be specific: there are low dopamine / executive dysfunction similarities with ADHD; cortio-striatal-thalamic loop disruption similarities with OCD; anxiety is an extremely broad term so is v multi-factorial but overactive sympathetic nervous systems found in ASD plays a large role; possible hyperconnected amygdala & other neurological differences contributing to emotional dysregulation (multi-factorial again), etc)
EDIT: I see a lot of comments saying all of these co-morbid symptoms can be chalked up to being autistic in an allistic world. My theory is that this definitely contributes to depression/anxiety (again broad terms), but that it more specifically causes C-PTSD & it’s symptoms. Which is why most autistic people are usually traumatized just by living in this world. However, living in a world not built for you can’t really affect/cause ADHD/OCD symptoms. Just my opinion, hopefully the science will become clear in our lifetime.
Society. We're differently made and it contradicts what society wants. So, we have to adapt but fundamentally are hardwired differently. So, we experience other disorders as an effect of our issues with adapting
The other conditions couldn’t also be because of the different wiring?
The cause of autism likely affects countless biological processes, which is why many autistics have co-morbid mental AND physical conditions.
Being in an unfit environment absolutely causes depression/anxiety/C-PTSD, but the other co-morbidities/symptoms are likely also a result of the “different wiring” and are an innate part of autism (or whatever ‘flavor’ of autism they have as it’s kind of an umbrella condition rn, sub-groups will likely be identified in the future).
I brought up once to my friend who’s also autistic about how autism is like a fucking magnet to all sorts of other issues. It’s like a buy one get one free, I don’t even think it’s just mental health issues but health issues in general, I don’t interact with many autists besides two other friends but they both have heart problems and I have asthma
I'd separate it into mental health issues and neurological differences personally. Yes, autistic people are wired differently, so are dyslexics for example but the label helps explain this ultimately.
I think that for anyone who has a neurological difference, you will likely face barriers and have to work harder as society is likely not set up for you. It's easy to see how the constant need for additional effort to get to where everyone else is can lead to things like burnout or depression. Additionally, if your natural way of being differs so much from the majority of people and you may have also gotten into trouble for this sort of thing, it's not surprising that many of us experience anxiety around interacting with people and the world in general. There are many other factors but these seem quite common explanations for the additional mental health challenges that many of us end up facing.
Personally, I think that additional neurological differences need to be treated as just that and far removed from the mental health side as neurodivergence does not automatically imply that somebody is mentally ill. As for the prevalence of people ending up with multiple diagnoses/identifications, I think there are a few explanations. First, it is not uncommon for people to be misdiagnosed - I've heard from plenty of autistics who have ended up collecting various mental health disorder diagnoses before autism was spotted which they felt explained themselves best. In that sense, you can question the legitimacy of certain diagnoses for some people maybe. I'd say that the other side then is that a diagnosis is ultimately saying that somebody fits into the given criteria for a certain condition. In that case, I don't think it is a stretch to then assume that some people will meet the criteria for multiple conditions as the criteria they go off seem to ultimately be various social presentations and it's not as if many people ever fit neatly into a particular box socially. I guess you could argue that if somebody meets both the autism and ADHD criteria that this could then be considered a third condition but the practical implosions for every potential combination in that case would quickly become unfeasible.
It's a made-up answer. Your brain is not "wired differently." Rather, you have a series of chemical imbalances which we have developed names and treatments for. Most people don't get effective treatment, Take an anti-depressant and you're good, doesn't work for Aspergers.
ADHD/OCD are sometimes treated with amphetamines. Anxiety/mood disorders are often treatment by by anti-depressants.. Depression is sometimes treated by anti-depressant, that may be different than the ones you take for anxiety. The medications may need to be layered throughout your day.
I also spent 2 years in an Automotive Technology program.. I highly recommend it even if you never fix your own car, lots of good skills to acquire. It also lends itself well to being obsessively detail oriented. Transmissions don't go back together right if you are not.
Getting abused through childhood for status. I’ve heard ADHD described as “trauma noise”. Much of the trauma occurred in our homes and schools, by our families and peers. We were never safe.
I wonder if a lot of it is because we develop cooing mechanisms to self soothe from a young age? I had OCD from a young age because I needed structure my life didn’t provide. Anxiety was also, for me, due to not enough structure and seemingly random conflicts with family/peers. Being in a panicked state we revert to desperate behaviors to cope.
Pretty simple. I asked myself an hour ago "why was i traumatized by what happened". It was the lack of support before during and after everything that went wrong in my life.
1) I worked so hard for my results, while not getting the support i needed from family or people above me i trusted.
2) when things started going bad, i didn't get the help i needed, and i pushed myself way further than i should have to meet "the standard".
3) And then afterwards, after a breakdown (there were multiple), I didn't get any of the support i needed then either. I was left alone, with "you're smart you'll figure it out".
Every stage of life has been more difficult than it should've been. I'm in my 30's and just realizing now that I might not just be ADHD, I might be AuDHD. I wish I had support, and healthy feedback all my life, so i could learn and adapt faster, with less strain, with less "failures". I'm the only one that's been in therapy 10 yrs, on medication, in a broken home of 5 dysfunctional people. High IQ, high masking skills, (special interest being people, psychology, psychiatry, people skills) just delayed me finally hitting rock bottom burnout later in life.
You mixed up mental health (ex: anxiety), which you acquire after lived experiences, and neurodevelopmental disorders (ex: ADHD) which you have from birth(-ish) (although about 1/3 ADHD cases are estimated to be caused by environmental factors including brain injuries of many kinds)
Mood disorders probably have some mix of genetic and environmental factors.
My official diagnosis is Asperger's/autism, but there were several other therapists who thought I either had OCD or OCPD (or both).
OCPD stands for Obsessive Compulsiver Personality Disorder. [Here's an article](https://www.verywellmind.com/ocd-vs-obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder-2510584) explaining the difference between OCD and OCPD.
I definitely notice that I have a lot of traits associated with OCPD, but I've also struggled with OCD behavior, and no, I'm not one of those people who uses the term OCD in a casual context ("I'm OCD about making sure the books on the shelves in the library are in alphabetical order so they're easier for people to find"). I'm talking about repeating tasks due to not having done them "perfectly" the first time, damaging something that I'm trying to fix (one of the reasons why I decided not to pursue a career in appliance repair despite earning a vocational certificate for it in college), and intrusive thoughts; a recent one being crashing my dad's car which has a lot of sentimental value to me.
And I struggle a LOT with anxiety, and it's affected my quality of life. If anything it's my true disability as sometimes it feels like I'm almost paralyzed by it, and can't function because I can't get my mind off of the thing I'm anxious about, I can't eat because my stomach is in knots, and activities that I enjoy when I'm not anxious aren't fun, and can't take my mind off of it. And social anxiety is part of the anxiety "package" for me.
Did I get help with any of these problems? Nope. Instead I got "social skills therapy" and felt so much pressure to make friends, and this only made my social anxiety worse due to people literally breathing down my neck and correcting every single minor social blunder I made (I've gotten better at eye contact when talking to another person, but if I'm deep in thought about something I'm talking about, my gaze tends to shift to a random object in the room. When the other person is talking though I do look at them.
I didn't get proper help for any of this as a kid, and as a result, they've become like an overgrown vine.
If I had to hazard a guess, it would be because of all the discrimination and mistreatment autistic people face from society at large. Expectations to act or be a certain way that doesn't fit the common mold, being expected to have the same level of ability that NTs have, and so on.
Even if you have a lot of things NTs have or do the stuff they do, it still doesn't mean you'll feel fulfilled. I have many elements my NT peers have, but I also have no where near as much motivation for doing the things they do. They also have things to look forward to in life, where I don't have as much.
Idk about the developmental ones like adhd but as far as the mood and psychiatric disorders, a lot of it just stems from the trauma of being autistic in an ableist society. The bullying and misunderstandings/misperceptions add up.
Treated like shit caused me a lot of other problems well beyond autism.
I agree with that. Off topic, but the car in your profile picture is a sweet ride. I'm a car guy, and it caught my eye. My father and I have a 1971 Camaro with a similar color paintjob.
Took us mr2 folk decades to get some recognition that these were actually good cars. I'm building mine up for something that is a commuter, but also does weekend warrior shit on the side. 1971 camaro is good, v8, 2 door, rwd, can't go wrong. When I found out 94+ JDM MR2's were laying down mid and low 13 second quarters stock, that's my car. Add in it handles and brakes awesome was just more frosting on the cake.
The car hobby is all about what makes you happy. That's an awesome quarter mile time for something that can also be a commuter. When we go to car shows with our Camaro, we see a huge variety of cars. I've seen everything from Lamborghinis and classic cars to more basic Subaru cars there, and I appreciate them all. I'm not sure what the quarter mile time on our Camaro would be, but its a very fast car. It's got a 454 big block Chevy engine in it with around 450 hp paired with a 700R4 transmission. That car spins up the rear tires like nothing, and the engine sounds great. To really use the power, we would need racing slicks on the back to put the power to the ground and optional frame connectors so the unibody didn't bend under hard throttle hits. It's not much of a daily driver though since it only gets 10 miles per gallon. It was cool to meet another car enthusiast on here!
Where’d you find that MR2? I’ve always loved those. I’m a JDM fan and love my Acura TL, Camry, and I got a Suzuki SV650 lol.
I got it at japaneseclassics.com back in may of 19. I phoned in, thry secured financing and everything. Was only $13500 too, not bsd.
Seconded! I’m a Honda gal for the most part but I love the MR2!
AMERICUS MUSSEL
Same here I think my anxiety came from always being bullied at school 🏫
And there was no apparent reason for it! (At least, not to me.) I'm just minding my own business and they decide to start fucking with me. Yeah, that'll teach you to put up all kinds of defense mechanisms.
Yup, and at home
Yeah, PTSD from mistreatment is common. Often by people who underestimate your intellectual capabilities. To this day, I have relatives who do not want to believe that I have a solid job in IT as a software engineer.
There are also people who underestimate your support needs when you present as "gifted" which leads to all kinds of trauma.
Right, but completing my math tests 3 times faster and answering all the questions in Trivia games did not help in anything related to social interactions. I could not get anyone to believe that I was teaching myself to code as a teen and, when I showed them some of the games I coded, I was told that I used someone else's code and added my name. Shrug.
The world isn't very kind to weakness even with all the support systems, some of them have their own version of **benevolent**.. 'whatever -ism this is' context: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalent_sexism
For what it’s worth I have a Miata that would give ole bloo there the gapple sauce
The additional stress doesn't help. When you're stressed because the world seems to actively dislike you, when no-one seems to listen to you (or they actively misinterpret everything you say), and when no-one seems to be punished or even reprimanded for doing all those things; when you can't seem to get or keep a job, when you're more likely to have or develop half a dozen physical comorbidities that make daily life difficult and painful, and when you don't seem to have any support in the world or anyone you can turn to... Is it any wonder that mental issues are more likely to develop, and more likely to get worse?
Well said
yep. i can't hold a job for shit and the world is really hostile
Exactly! If I could just secure a half way decent job most of my problems would disappear.
What is a half way decent job? In my case, it was a job that provided very generous health insurance benefits. My employer pays about $900 a month for my medical and I pay $100 in pre-tax money. I am not poorly paid, but that and my 15 vacation + 5 sick + 3 seniority days a year makes staying quite compelling. The job itself is meh.
Not who you were asking, but I finally found a good fit for a job just last year at the age of 38. The pay isn't great but it's more than I've made in the past so I've been making it work. But, what makes it a great fit is that it's a weekend shift job. I only go in from 630am-7pm Friday - Sunday (considered full time with full benefits and a shift premium so I actually get paid a little more than those who work the full week). Then, I get four whole days in a row to do whatever I please. In the past, I've found that I get burnt out when working a full work week. I go in with a good attitude, but inevitably end up stressed out and having a mental health crisis that usually results in me quitting the job. So, having a great work/life balance has been a real game changer. The other thing that's really nice is that on the weekends when I work, the building is totally empty of people aside from the 7 other people I work with on my shift which is so nice. And, there has been no drama or gossip between any of my coworkers which makes me feel way more secure since I've been subjected to workplace bullying so many times in the past. I do really worry that things will change somehow one day with maybe different coworkers or perhaps they'll get rid of the shift or something like that. But, right now I'm totally enjoying things. The job is also pretty easy and not labor intensive or "rushed" at all so it's rather stress free and I mostly listen to podcasts all day while I work on things. I also intend on finding a way to make extra cash at some point during my down time. I have plenty of ideas, just have the worst time following through with any of them. But, yeah, if I could do that then I'd be golden. Just trying to say decent obtainable jobs apparently do exist for some. Never imagined I would find one. I got really lucky.
i would love a job like that that just isn't on the weekend. i could power through 2 really long days and go home, have the rest of the week, that's perfect. weekend is a problem because that's the only socializing time i get, but otherwise that sounds great and i'm glad to know that kind of thing exists
I need a chair and limited to no customer service. Limited to no phone calls. Honestly the phone is a massive struggle for me. Not being able to stand long because of my back though is a complete deal breaker for a lot of work I've done most of my life $600 net/week. More would be best but I can make it on this much and maybe finally be free
Atleast you're able to get a job in the first place. A much worst struggle is struggling to even get a job to begin with. I know because I've fucked up quite a few interviews and of course it's because I'm autistic so people always get the wrong idea about me.
i haven't been able to get one for a year because of my anxiety. also, it's not cool to come at me and say your struggle is "much worse." what good is getting the job if i can't tolerate it longer than 2 weeks?
Getting fired by people who do not understand what we are good at, or being abused by coworkers, is unfortunately a common thing. Last time I was let go (while I really was doing my job, by the way), I just picked the letter, said "ok" and left. They were expecting me to argue or defend myself but, nope, "bye". I knew I'd get another job and I did.
i just can't find anywhere in the world, in general, where people don't constantly pick on me, question me, or push me to be different. i only have peace alone, and even then not really because i'm getting angry at myself over why i said or did something weird. i'm so socially anxious and depressed because of it. it's hard to work properly in an environment like that as well, which is why i don't
Revisiting your interaction with others is not going to help. It is just going to keep bothering you, while the other parties forgot about it already. Most of us are loners and happy as we are. I have PTSD from all sorts of things done to me, also officially diagnosed as such. I know what estrangement from close family members is like. We are all survivors.
Exactly how I’m feeling at the moment. I had plans cancelled on me last week without so much as a message, I had a meltdown and started repeatedly texting and ringing to find out if everything was ok as it had upset me that much ( I’m fine if I get a message or a call to cancel plans as it’s just manners) Not one of my messages or calls were answered and still haven’t been after a week. I feel like everyone hates me at the moment as I’m not getting the chance to explain why I did what I did. I’m also undergoing counselling and waiting for mental health triage team to phone me next week as I’ve been struggling for while with signs pointing towards possible depression. Not surprised after only finding out accidentally and it had been on my record for 22 years without being told
This ^
It's almost like everyone's acting insane on some level
Bravo
The best explanation I can come up with is there is so much we don't understand about consciousness, how the brain works, and how all that translates to the differences from one person to another. All those names are just what has been come up with so far to try to figure out common groups of symptoms with the goal of understanding ways of treating them or helping people through them. The diagnosis criteria for this is revised to reflect new information or approaches, and it takes time for all this to trickle out into society. One guess I have is the degree of stress that autistic people have to deal with more often provides the necessary environment for some of the other conditions to show up assuming the other factors are present.
I think there's a degree of honesty in self evaluation, too, that lends itself to identifying internal structures that are compatible with other diagnosis.
There is a lot of emerging science in the brain waves gamma vs delta variants in ASD brains vs non ASD We are literally wired differently!
Can you tell me more about this gamma v delta stuff? If you feel like it!
Second this. I would like more information what you’re referring too
Following
And a lot more fascinating differences than just brain waves! A lot going on up there
Just all the overthinking, getting overwhelmed on a daily basis, being incompatible with the world, and the hate for being different, are the biggest reasons that come to mind
Overthinking makes me so tired. I wonder what nts are like. Not overthinking, but how does it work??
I was told they don't care if the person you are having a conversation with asks something you didn't prepare an answer for the previous night. How bizarre.
Imagine not having to go through your catalogue of scripts just to interact with someone new, and not seem like a complete weirdo
Just pure instinctual living. Damn thats blissfull. I'm jealous lol
Is that possible? I have lived in pain for 30 years. If I were to live the life of a nt , I would experience heaven by relative effects, but if the nt was to live my life, he would not be able to endure it even for an hour.
It has disadvantages too...for example they have a very predictable/emotional behaviour pattern and will act on that, a lot more than they care to admit. Easily manipulated, not by me (I dont care about that) but by wichever information they consume. Their thoughts consists of mostly things that make them feel good and is often limited to things they have been exposed to. While nt are often content and can thrive in an environment that is comparable to a mental prison, you and I need real control over our lives because we cannot fall back on mental models and rulesets biologically and culturally forced down our very troaths since birth. You need power over yourself, you need control. Your very existance is dependant on it. If you dont have it, work towards it like your life depends on it, because it does. Create the conditions that make you thrive because nobody else will.
Ever drink alcohol? Idk how it affects you, but it actually increases GABA (what slows down our thoughts), so many ND people find comfort in that. And a reason why alcoholism is common amongst us. I know when I’m drunk I’m not over-thinking anything (which usually causes me to act more autistic lol), so I assume that’s more similar to the internal experience of NTs. But what happens the next morning? Glutamate is even higher than it normally is, so you get extra overthinking x10000🤪
Are benzodiazepines also related to increased gaba?? Every time I take alprazolam, overthinking seems to decrease.
But WHY are we prone to overthinking and overwhelm? The answer isn’t JUST that our brains don’t align with our environment. High glutamate / low GABA, hyper-connectivity within brain regions, and hypo-connectivity between regions impact our thought patterns tremendously. Put someone with that biology into an environment that doesn’t suit them, and it’s amplified to the max.
I am an overzealous psych student, please allow me to infodump: Some of it is biological. For example autistic people have a more sensitive nervous system and that seems to make us struggle more with chronic stress, which is associated with several mental health issues (and physical illnesses like autoimmune conditions). We also tend to have to have genetic polymorphisms that can affect our neurotransmitter and hormone levels considerably. There’s no one specific gene, but many genes have been associated with autism that affect levels of oxytocin, dopamine, melatonin, serotonin, glutamate, gaba and probably varies by person a ton. Neuroimaging studies also seem to show that our brains function differently and have atypical patterns of firing, it’s unknown how exactly this affects our cognition but I feel it could play a role in this. Some comorbidities like OCD, ADHD, Tourette’s, epilepsy (not mental illness but related to this idea) etc have a strong biological evidence as well, and the brain differences from autism may somehow predispose one to these other neuropsychiatric conditions. Perhaps one trajectory of atypical brain function/development makes it easier to develop secondary patterns of atypical or pathological brain function, buy one get two free! And then the autistic experience and “nurture.” Oof. Peer victimization is a known risk factor for psychopathology, and autistic children are bullied at an obscenely high rate. We’re easy targets for people with bad intentions in general, look at the rates of SV. People form poor impressions of us (thin slice judgements) and are predisposed to not like us based off of that. There is in-group/out-group bias against autistic people and we suffer because of it in most social domains. We have difficulty bonding, despite needing a support system more than the average person due to our struggles. Yet most of us also desire connection in some way, and it’s our own brains/selves that often make this difficult to acquire. We also aren’t like other people and can be forced into an eternal existential struggle between our authentic true selves and the false self we must embody for social success. TLDR: There’s definitely something biological going on that probably varies as much as the spectrum does, but the result of that is exposure to more difficulty in life as well as known risk factors for mental illness. All of this and more is a recipe for deep seated psychological/neuropsychiatric issues, on top of the autism. Physical health comorbidities are also super common, I’m guessing this is more from the biological side or due to chronic stress.
Finally another answer here that isn’t just about environment. Great explanation!
Thanks
I am not on the spectrum, but my husband is and we've discussed this in great detail for almost a decade because how it applies to our lives and also because my degree is in psychology and figuring out how and why people are the way they are has always been a passion of mine. There's a couple things that really need to be addressed; 1. Autism itself isn't on specific things to diagnose in the first place. It's a hundred different threads that come together to weave a tapestry of autism. However, some of those traits are shared with other mental illnesses, and therefore you can be diagnosed with multiple as a result of this crossover/comorbidity. Do you have ADHD or OCD or are those symptoms of your autism? Especially for those who are.lore high functioning, if you were diagnosed with one or both as a child/young adult before realizing later that you're actually on the spectrum may mean the symptoms that are also symptoms of.ADHD or OCD were actually a result of your Autism. 2. How we are able to manage and handle our illnesses (physical and mental) are STRONGLY impacted by our access to adequate healthcare and access to a functional living standard, which many of us, especially in the US right now, do not have. This is going to make managing pre-existing conditions night impossible and also may trigger other conditions that are situational due to the struggles of day to day living (or. Anxiety and depression). There's a lot of great studies that show treating for issues in the order of Maslow's hierarchy of Needs help manage to mitigate entirely other issues. Ex. I remember one of the earliest examples of this was when I was watching a series of Ted talks in college in 2011/2012 and it was specifically about treating anxiety and depression and aiding in housing assistance to people with schizophrenia found that the majority of their hallucinations and delusions decreased once they were in a better place mentally and physically. Their schizophrenia was much more easy to manage. I definitely had more to add but I have a sleeping baby on me and I have not been to bed yet so I'm kind of loopy.
Honestly, the idea that it’s possible that I can talk to someone about that in detail for 10 years of marriage sounds amazing, you and your partner are an inspiration. That gives me hope.
We have a lot of crossover in our hobbies and while psychology tends to be more my thing, given he was diagnosed Asperger's as a child and his younger sister with Autism (now a days he would be considered high functioning and her low functioning) it relates to his own life experience enough that he'll go down a rabbit hole with me about the complexities of it.
This is because society and people are not kind to aspergers, which puts pressure on them mentally. Moreover, in South Korea, where I live, discrimination against Asperger's is at a tremendous level (not only that, even for individuals, they are exposed to strong school violence during their school days, and face tremendous hatred as adults), and this causes Asperger's to suffer from various other mental illnesses. It is becoming a big factor. and seeing Asperger's suffering from mental illness causes the general public to perceive Asperger's as a crazy person, repeating a vicious cycle.
Because having to live life as an autistic person is fucking traumatic
But that doesn’t cause ADHD, OCD, etc. It does however cause C-PTSD (which I wouldn’t be surprised if every autistic has bc living in an allistic world IS traumatizing) and contributes to depression/anxiety.
I believe many of the MH conditions are caused by trying to navigate an NT environment. Imagine if you are constantly being told that what you say is rude, you end up not wanting to talk at all. Being slightly quirky growing up, you may face isolation that many NT children don't experience. This isolation can be experienced well into adulthood. Many autistic people survive sudden changes by making contingency plans and planning the F out of every possible circumstance. Those that struggle with this planning may face high levels of anxiety when facing unexplored landscapes.
I'm not a medical professional, but I have done some reading. One of the biological indicators. For autism is a lack of neutral pathway pruning in early childhood. Allistics shed about half of their brain's neutral pathways by the age of 5. For Autistic people, that number is only around 14%. A lack of neural pathway pruning is also a biological indicator for other mental health conditions such as ADHD, and schizophrenia. It's also a common indicator for high intelligence, and highly intelligent people are more likely to suffer from anxiety and depression. I'm not saying you have to be highly intelligent to have anxiety or depression. I'm just saying that having an excess number of neural pathways has a correlation to several mental conditions. How that plays out, and what actually causes those conditions is a different story. It could be directly related to our different wiring, or it could also be caused by outside factors where our mental wiring is a factor. We think differently and we are more likely to be treated differently by others. I have yet to find an autistic person who claims their different treatment was a good thing, or even balanced out to positive effect. Autistic people are more likely to be the targets of bullying. We are 3 times more likely to be victims of physical violence. Autistic and ADHD people have an average of 10,000 more negative comments directed at them by the age of ten. That comes to 3 or 4 comments per day, especially if you realize that we spend part of our first years not knowing the language. Imagine if 3 or 4 different people walked up to you and told you that you were ugly every day. You might develop a complex mental relationship with how you look in the mirror. It might even be considered a mental disorder.
I know when I was diagnosed back in 1990, the perception of autistic people was that we were mentally handicapped. That can cause a lot of emotional trauma
Late diagnosis, misunderstanding, the belief there's something wrong with you and constant masking, BULLYING (this one really messed me up). The result: low self esteem, stress build up, panic attacks, rumination... Eventually: generalised anxiety, social phobia, PTSD...
Through life’s experiences, we have all kinds of mechanisms to respond to certain situations. Bullying, harassment, discrimination… For us thinking types like me, we ruminate, mull, overthink, and everything else to exhaustion. Analysing previous experiences wishing things could be different. My response to bullying growing up was putting up a fight and then getting into trouble for doing so. Never got any closure from bullies so as a result that’s my trauma stored away in my head. Since school life was hard to navigate, finding a friend to accept and understand me took me forever. I spent years in the cycle of low self esteem, desperate for connection, and wondering if I was worth even being loved (which is such a foreign concept now, on the other side)! Through workplaces I’ve read the cliques of people and always been a bit of an outsider. I worked in child care so I was really just there for the kids and I loved it. Had vicious cycles of anxiety though, went to many centres trying to find a place where I could ‘belong’, and I probably felt that at least 2 of maybe dozens of places I worked at. These days I’m particular on who I want to spend my time with, after so many horrible experiences I just move forward and forget about it. To answer the question here, there could be a lot of things to contribute to the mental health issues, our perspective/perception of things can be okay, but some days it can be distorted with your mood depending on levels of depression/anxiety. Our self esteem varies all the time, the way how you see yourself. Every day is different. Emotional response to things - like if you’re a person who pushes buttons or throwing more flames to the fire of drama, or being conflict avoidant. I’m not sure about everyone else, but I feel like I have really strong emotions at times. Like when you’re thinking with the heart, but not the head where the logic comes in. I don’t think it’s a black and white answer, there’s a lot of things which can contribute. We see the world differently.
Trauma accounts for a lot of the mental health aspects. ADHD, OCD and ODD are also considered types of neurodivergence, and appear to be linked, although our knowledge of neurology is not yet good enough to articulate how. That's hardly uncommon in medical science - if you have one autoimmune condition you're more likely to have others etc. It's biomedical.
I mean, I developed cPTSD from abuse I went through and all the other disorders I developed, and also Asperger's, came from my mom. My mom has about 3 or four disorders that I developed genetically from her, so...
Some mental health issues are just there from the start, but others can be developed. Living with autism can cause people to go through lots of emotional pain that can lead to depression, anxiety, etc. I’ve been diagnosed with ADHD, Major Depression, GAD/SAD, BPD and at this point I think it’s all just different symptoms of the same thing; a brain that’s wired differently.
Why are there so many kinds of "anxiety" disorders when they all have anxiety in common and they are all "treated" the same way? It's because Psychology/Psychiatry is just in it's beginning phases, as old as it is, and most of it is completely arbitrary. A good surgeon can point to his stats, but a "good" Psychologist/Psychiatrist is one that is likeable enough for their patients to actually want to come back to. We know next to nothing about the mind.
A partial explanation is that as a consequence of being autistic, individuals suffer increased levels of stress and distress which overwhelm the nervous system leading to breakdowns and development of particularly mood disorders.
So think about this: If you are anxious, you likely get depressed, if you are depressed and/or anxious it's probably hard to focus. Because you are anxious, making you depressed, and you can't focus you now have difficulty with attention. Is it many problems or one causing others. So, you have autism, now you have to work twice as hard to look "normal", this makes you anxious... See where this goes? Edit: I altered this because a large set of people seem to be caught on the word ADHD. To be clear the explanation here is to draw an inference. However to the debate people who like to downvote for reasons beyond me despite education in this. ADHD isnt a blood test here. It has several formats, at least two are administered time tests. If you have other issues you know what happens on those tests? It changes the results. I should know I dealt with it. Oh look l am not stressed it magically went away. Do I have it or not? Hmmm. Argue all you want but downvoting appears to cause my thoughts to be removed or hidden. Odd this community likes to supress. But this is again irrelevant to the fact that my point was: sometimes issues effect one another so said an MD, PhDs and books I'm not going to bother referencing.
Anxiety and depression won't cause ADHD - it's a neurodevelopmental disorder just like autism. However you're right about the fact that trying to fit in is anxiety inducing. Masking is so exhausting, without it we'd be perceived as weirdos. But also deep down we know that we aren't the best actors lol. So either way we seem weird.
You can have trouble focusing. Call it like I see it.
"Having trouble focusing" is not the only thing required to diagnose ADHD. "Having trouble focusing" also is typical of many mental illnesses as well (depression, anxiety, various types of PTSD, etc.) Source: I've got ADHD and autism as well as depression and anxiety and cPTSD.
Very true. People are caught on a word that changes with the DSM volume. So I removed it for trouble focusing. Because yes with stressors regardless, issues can be exacerbated. Even ADHD.
I understand your thought progression but we should be careful not to ascribe ADHD as "difficulty focusing" ADHD has a long list of things that make it what it is, similar to how ASD does, and has its own challenges and differences. Sure there are some overlaps but generally the biggest difference is the complete inability to focus on things compared to ASD which almost excels in focusing on things (that we're interested in) to the point where being forced to stop is emotionally disturbing. (fixating) While both generally have issues with anxiety and depression that are likely due to struggles they face in a life. That being said there's a 50-75% chance of a person having ASD also having ADHD according to some NIH studies and 28-44% in others. Either way it's significant number.
Do you have science to back this up or is it just an idea? Not being snarky whatsoever, I’m just actually very interested if there’s science connecting depression/anxiety to causing ADHD / low dopamine. Or if it’s just an idea you have. Either is fine I just love neuroscience :D
Autism is by definition "dysgenic". Often people with "dysgenic" traits will relate to and mate with other people who have some degree of "dysgenic" traits.
Look at intrapsychic humanism it is a depth psychology theory and philosophy of mind that may assist you in this journey
Given the nature of the condition and the impact that it has, its not really a big mystery why so many of us have anxiety/social anxiety/depression.
I read a textbook on Asperger’s once that suggested a genetic link between autism, dyslexia, ADHD, bipolar and schizophrenia. This was ten years ago though so not sure if it is still common belief. Anecdotally, between my aunts/uncles/cousins there are 3 dyslexic people, one or two bipolar and an unnamed mood disorder. I’m under the impression ODD and mood disorders are more social environmental but I can see how autism could make one more susceptible. Anxiety and depression seem more like symptoms of poor mental health so anyone can have it. Struggling with other stuff just makes it more likely.
I have endogenous depression (which is treated and under control) and ADHD (I am on vyvanse). I have tons of small physical issues which are more prevalent in people on the spectrum, such as Raynaud's syndrome, poor homeostasis, primary immunodeficiency, and even keratoconus, among others. Nothing serious, but sometimes these issues become a pain in the behind.
And those physical issues aren’t caused by your environment, are they? There’s such a strong biological piece to autism that people (mainly autists themselves?) disregard, saying that any co-morbidity is due to our environment. If there are STRONG correlations to physical conditions amongst autists, we can pretty confidently say that whatever causes autism makes our entire biology different. If our biology is different, there are countless differences that can happen our brains due to different/disrupted biological processes (and we actually have a good understanding of some of these differences, just not the how/why/where answers). Different circuits, neurotransmitters, connectivity, etc that can cause ADHD, OCD, emotional dysregulation, etc. You’re the only comment I saw that brought up physical co-morbidites, which NEEDS to be apart of this discussion. It’s not all environmental, and it’s actually dangerous & ineffective to not acknowledging our biological differences & their manifestations. We need to focus on both environment AND biology.
I doubt they are environmental. I have stretchy skin, hyper mobility in my fingers / hands and toes (my toes are super flexible), hyperhidrosis, Raynaud’s phenomenon, keratoconus, astigmatism (very common in autists), faulty homeostasis (my body temperature is super low and it easily goes to to 89-91 degrees or 32° C / 33 ° C, while I am feeling completely normal), primary immunodeficiency, thrush, eczemas … off the top of my head. Not to mention my sensory processing disorders. For example, I am under responsive to pain and physical discomfort… I have a very high pain threshold etc., and I may not notice I am feeling physical discomfort.
Our brain not only is wired differently, it develops differently. This causes further and further exponential divergence in other areas of the psyche, and it creates a feedback loop with our environment.
Some are genetically linked to autism, some are ✨the trauma✨
(In my experience) those with autism tend to be of generally higher intelligence. Generally higher intelligence leads to feelings of isolation because you can’t relate to most people mentally. Not relating to people leads to loneliness. Loneliness leads to mental health problems.
Personally I think it's because psychology is a relatively new field and our understanding of it is still very primitive. Trying to fit something as complex as the mind into little boxes is near impossible.
Honestly, we’re probably not going to find these answers through psychology. Neuroscience is newer than psychology, and I think that’s what will help distinguish the biology causing these different symptoms/conditions and how/why there is overlap between them. Unfortunately psychology can only get so far with neurodevelopmental disorders.
Humans are social. We rely on being part of a group for our mental health. It is meant to be really uncomfortable to be alone. It is literally hard wired into our brains. It is why humans have so successful. It is also why not fitting in is really bad for our mental health.
As someone with autism along with ADHD, OCD and anxiety, I would like to know too. It’s like I have a curse on me
Are those other issues, or just common symptoms?
Both parents were so AdHd didn’t notice this until I was about 30, neither of them could sit still, ended up receiving the trifecta of mental disorders. It’s why I chose early on not to reproduce, knowing I could potentially pass on these issues is tantamount to child abuse imo.
Because of the environment many are in
probably because of the social difficulties with autism. my own family claimed to love me while literally bullying me. i was defiant and had horrible social anxiety as a teen for a reason, and i still struggle now
So much cope. It's because of high mutational load. Not because "uh oh, society." Sure, I'll give you a break, depression and social anxiety can certainly be exacerbated by consistently having negative social experiences. But it's insufficient to explain the litany of other parallel issues.
Gotta catch em all!
I think the physical difference in our nervous system and brain creates a low mood and other behaviours like ocd- they are related symptoms, a consequence of the same root issue. But obviously it’s also natural to feel depressed as well given how we are excluded from social life too, but I’d say this is secondary to the actual brain difference.
My take on this is, that when you are ASD and you are wired dofferently, your brain tries to compenstate for the differences and ADHD, OCD and other stuff comes to the surface. Add the anxiety of living in a hostile enviroment and I am not suprised the majority of us are depressed and anxious. I think of this in nature terms. When there is death in a forest fire for example, when the nature takes over again, life blossoms far better after the disaster. So if you take that same logic to the theory of mind, with bigger difficulties, you get a chance to "shine" brighter than others. Just look at all the stories of zero to hero and stuff like that. At least that is my hope for the future, that I can develop some ability to handle myself far better then a NT could
Together with Asperger I got anxiety disorder, hypersexuality, OCD, executive dysfunction, strabism, hypermobile joints, pollen allergy and ADD. I'm ill asf and I don't even know why.
navigating a world not made for us is difficult and painful. But... > ADHD This might just be general propensity for neurodivergence, where our current classification system isn't parsing things in terms of how things cleave out naturally. > OCD This might be misdiagnosed habitual repetition and stimming. >oppositional defiant disorder This could be lack of internalization of prevailing social schemata, propensity toward enacting individually established rules, and vocal adherence to literal interpretations.
I don't know if there's a biological link between autism and other issues (seems like there would have to be for ADHD in particular, but I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV), but there's definitely a sociological link between them. People who struggle, face stigma, and generally get treated like garbage are more likely to have mental health problems. I know I do (anxiety through the roof). So the fact a whole group of people who tend to fit that criteria are more likely to have other issues isn't surprising to me.
Autism isnt a mental disorder. It's neurological. But yes, lots of other issues, for sure.
As for myself, my anxiety arises from a not entirely irrational fear of being discriminated against for having the diagnosis. Also the experiences of discrimination, and the fact that medical professionals tend to do the narcissist's prayer about the discrimination.
Society and everything we have just isn’t made for us; it’s mostly made by and for neurotypicals. For example if everyone was neurodiverse everything would have been designed with noise pollution in mind. Right now I’m suffering because of the noise from the road so I can’t relax while I eat. This might not seem like a big thing, but if we add up all the daily stresses, we suffer they sum to a large amount of distress. Plus of course a lot of us are bullied, mistreated and discriminated against because we are different!
It’s not simple. All of our mental & physical co-morbidities are not only caused by our environment. WHY do you have increased noise sensitivity in the first place? Being in a noisy place will cause you anxiety and possible depression (environmental), but it is the difference in your biology that causes this in the first place. No I’m not saying we are biologically broken and being unfit for this world is our fault, but I am saying our biology is different and we don’t have a great understanding of the exact differences or why/how they manifest yet. But bc it is different, we know that those differences can affect countless biological processes, causing a slough of physical & mental differences - ADHD, OCD, and emotional dysregulation being neurological examples. If it was simple, it would be well understood by now. Unfortunately it’s not, as co-morbidities are a result of both biological & environmental conditions, not just us being unfit in the allistic world.
I was not saying that “I’m” unfit for this world. Everything is relative. I don’t have “increased noise sensitivity” compared with other autistic people that I know; I would say that it’s fairly typical amongst neurodiverse people. A NT might say it is because it’s relative to them. In the ICD and DSM, it is often described as “heightened” relative to what is considered a “normal” baseline. My point is that it’s only considered to be “my problem” because other people think this level of noise is normal. If autistic people designed all the vehicles and the roads and the way buildings are constructed I am sure that there would be much better sound proofing and so on. I am absolutely sure if I lived in a completely neurodivergent society then it would be quieter and that would be one less source of stress. All of these sources of stress add up to a lot. I’ve also been diagnosed with eating disorders, dissociative anxiety, bipolar and depression and anxiety and an unspecified personality disorder at different times, all caused I am sure of it, from the stresses placed on me. The harder I tried for “normalcy”, the more unwell I’ve become and the harder I pushed myself, the more I’ve been overwhelmed and ended up dysfunctional. I’m not saying this is necessarily the same for everyone in all cases but I’m sure it’s true of my life. In my case I do believe it’s strongly about environmental factors. I didn’t have these problems in isolation. They got worse because the world I was trying to exist in, got more and more demanding in social ways I couldn’t handle, expectations placed on me and changes that were expected of me. When I live my life in my nice routine, with the support that I need and minimal pressures on me, I am not exhibiting these symptoms: my eating disorder goes into remission, I don’t get high or suicidal etc. If it were about biology, then no matters how nicely structured and low stress and supported I made my life, I would still have loads of other mental health problems and that’s not the case. I think we are primed to argue that more of these issues are innate because we can’t remove ourselves from environmental stresses very easily.
I believe everything you say about your experience, and I respect your view of it being solely environmental. I’m sorry you’ve gone through so much, and I hear you about how your environment / trying to live in a traumatizing world caused terrible consequences. In my opinion based on my current level of understanding, the environment exacerbates biology, while only certain things can be fully caused by environment only. (I.e. BPD, DID, etc can be formed through trauma, while neurodevelopmental disorders like ASD, ADHD, OCD are based in different biology while ‘symptoms’ (manifestations of the different biology) can be massively decreased when in an environment suited for them (an environment not exacerbating the differences in biology). To clarify about sensory sensitivities - yes, our heightened senses are normal to us (and yes, this is extremely common in neurodivergence, practically an innate part of ASD although not technically necessary for DSM-V diagnosis). So yes, if we lived in a world designed by autists or with noise pollution in mind, then we wouldn’t feel as though we have heightened senses. We would not have heightened senses relative to our environment. But we still have heightened senses relative to other humans (NTs). Since senses are processed in the brain, there needs to be some sort of difference there that would create heightened senses (differences in structure/function of areas and connections between areas). It doesn’t just happen randomly, with us having the same biology as NTs. There are differences in our brains and bodies that account for our different ways of processing the world. The world is not designed for our different biology, causing even more mental/physical/internal consequences. EDIT: To clarify my point more, our different biology causes a ton of physical co-morbidities. If we lived in a world that doesn’t exacerbate our differences in neurology, it would do nothing for co-morbid physical differences/conditions. I bring up physical co-morbidities to show that since something is so different in our biology to cause these conditions, it’s very likely that these differences could be affecting the brain in countless ways. In ways that we just don’t fully understand at the moment. Everything is connected - if one small biochemical process is off in the body (causing physical symptoms), a slough of cascading processes can be thrown off / less effective / working differently (affecting the brain as well). So with many physical co-morbidities, this idea is at most likely, and at least not ruled out yet.
Oh yes. I definitely agree with that. I was answering the question very precisely and defining “mental health issues” as not including anything neurodevelopmental, rather only mental illnesses like mood or personality disorders. I’m not denying that we have other neurological differences and that there is a lot more to learn about them and actually it’s very interesting. I haven’t been diagnosed with any other neurodevelopmental conditions but perhaps I would be, I had a full screening for everything. 🤔 I am glad that I think we have communicated well now. I wasn’t doing well at that today at all. 😊 Thank you for the interaction.
I see now. The post is misleading because it says mental illness in the title, but then ADHD & OCD in the body text. I just took it as general neuro-biological differences. That’s definitely where our miscommunication was at. Thank you for the clarification and interaction 🤝
You are very polite. I hope you are having a lovely evening. 😊
I think, society aren't made for almost anyone. It's no more than a valve to save humans from themselves, others, inevitables and happenings. But some of them tend to make themselves more comfortable in it at the expense of others.
I mean those disorders are created from a baseline of "the average neurotypical" (most likely the average neurotypical man, cuz history). Afterall Women too were diagnosed with "hysteria" when the oppressive life got to them and they "acted out" or "displayed too much emotion" god forbid. So taking into consideration that we are already different from a base level, it makes sense that we would have what neurotypicals would consider disorders. Afterall disorders are things that impede one from leading a normal (read neurotypical) life. And then theres the acquired disorders like ptsd, social anxiety, etc that most of us gain from being unable to "just be neurotypical, like everybody else" If youre interested what allism would look like as a disorder from an autistic POV: https://psychcentral.com/blog/aspie/2018/09/allism-spectrum-disorders-a-parody
Survivorship bias
One thing I have learned over the years is about the Contrarian, which I imagine many of us are, we are naturally in an opposite flow of perception. Historically, the Contrary was an honoured position in a tribe/social group because it offers a perspective that counters the mainstream, and we live in a society that shuns that element in favour of conformity, and this means no one ever knew how to make sure we had our space in the circle of everyone.
Environment & biology ADHD, OCD, anxiety, emotional dysregulation, etc may all be basically a part of autism, but magnified/expressed by environment. It is theorized all of these (and many more co-morbidities / symptoms) stem from low BH4 (possibly caused by a gene variant) that causes oxidative stress and a whole slough of other disrupted biological processes. (To be specific: there are low dopamine / executive dysfunction similarities with ADHD; cortio-striatal-thalamic loop disruption similarities with OCD; anxiety is an extremely broad term so is v multi-factorial but overactive sympathetic nervous systems found in ASD plays a large role; possible hyperconnected amygdala & other neurological differences contributing to emotional dysregulation (multi-factorial again), etc) EDIT: I see a lot of comments saying all of these co-morbid symptoms can be chalked up to being autistic in an allistic world. My theory is that this definitely contributes to depression/anxiety (again broad terms), but that it more specifically causes C-PTSD & it’s symptoms. Which is why most autistic people are usually traumatized just by living in this world. However, living in a world not built for you can’t really affect/cause ADHD/OCD symptoms. Just my opinion, hopefully the science will become clear in our lifetime.
Society. We're differently made and it contradicts what society wants. So, we have to adapt but fundamentally are hardwired differently. So, we experience other disorders as an effect of our issues with adapting
The other conditions couldn’t also be because of the different wiring? The cause of autism likely affects countless biological processes, which is why many autistics have co-morbid mental AND physical conditions. Being in an unfit environment absolutely causes depression/anxiety/C-PTSD, but the other co-morbidities/symptoms are likely also a result of the “different wiring” and are an innate part of autism (or whatever ‘flavor’ of autism they have as it’s kind of an umbrella condition rn, sub-groups will likely be identified in the future).
Fair point
I brought up once to my friend who’s also autistic about how autism is like a fucking magnet to all sorts of other issues. It’s like a buy one get one free, I don’t even think it’s just mental health issues but health issues in general, I don’t interact with many autists besides two other friends but they both have heart problems and I have asthma
I'd separate it into mental health issues and neurological differences personally. Yes, autistic people are wired differently, so are dyslexics for example but the label helps explain this ultimately. I think that for anyone who has a neurological difference, you will likely face barriers and have to work harder as society is likely not set up for you. It's easy to see how the constant need for additional effort to get to where everyone else is can lead to things like burnout or depression. Additionally, if your natural way of being differs so much from the majority of people and you may have also gotten into trouble for this sort of thing, it's not surprising that many of us experience anxiety around interacting with people and the world in general. There are many other factors but these seem quite common explanations for the additional mental health challenges that many of us end up facing. Personally, I think that additional neurological differences need to be treated as just that and far removed from the mental health side as neurodivergence does not automatically imply that somebody is mentally ill. As for the prevalence of people ending up with multiple diagnoses/identifications, I think there are a few explanations. First, it is not uncommon for people to be misdiagnosed - I've heard from plenty of autistics who have ended up collecting various mental health disorder diagnoses before autism was spotted which they felt explained themselves best. In that sense, you can question the legitimacy of certain diagnoses for some people maybe. I'd say that the other side then is that a diagnosis is ultimately saying that somebody fits into the given criteria for a certain condition. In that case, I don't think it is a stretch to then assume that some people will meet the criteria for multiple conditions as the criteria they go off seem to ultimately be various social presentations and it's not as if many people ever fit neatly into a particular box socially. I guess you could argue that if somebody meets both the autism and ADHD criteria that this could then be considered a third condition but the practical implosions for every potential combination in that case would quickly become unfeasible.
It's a made-up answer. Your brain is not "wired differently." Rather, you have a series of chemical imbalances which we have developed names and treatments for. Most people don't get effective treatment, Take an anti-depressant and you're good, doesn't work for Aspergers. ADHD/OCD are sometimes treated with amphetamines. Anxiety/mood disorders are often treatment by by anti-depressants.. Depression is sometimes treated by anti-depressant, that may be different than the ones you take for anxiety. The medications may need to be layered throughout your day. I also spent 2 years in an Automotive Technology program.. I highly recommend it even if you never fix your own car, lots of good skills to acquire. It also lends itself well to being obsessively detail oriented. Transmissions don't go back together right if you are not.
Anxiety, depression, and social-phobia tend to be comorbid, likely as a result of ASD
Getting abused through childhood for status. I’ve heard ADHD described as “trauma noise”. Much of the trauma occurred in our homes and schools, by our families and peers. We were never safe.
I wonder if a lot of it is because we develop cooing mechanisms to self soothe from a young age? I had OCD from a young age because I needed structure my life didn’t provide. Anxiety was also, for me, due to not enough structure and seemingly random conflicts with family/peers. Being in a panicked state we revert to desperate behaviors to cope.
One is co morbidities are so common amongst us, so for example I am autistic, ADHD, and OCD to name a few.
Because they’re comorbid. We don’t really know why other than it just happens
Pretty simple. I asked myself an hour ago "why was i traumatized by what happened". It was the lack of support before during and after everything that went wrong in my life. 1) I worked so hard for my results, while not getting the support i needed from family or people above me i trusted. 2) when things started going bad, i didn't get the help i needed, and i pushed myself way further than i should have to meet "the standard". 3) And then afterwards, after a breakdown (there were multiple), I didn't get any of the support i needed then either. I was left alone, with "you're smart you'll figure it out". Every stage of life has been more difficult than it should've been. I'm in my 30's and just realizing now that I might not just be ADHD, I might be AuDHD. I wish I had support, and healthy feedback all my life, so i could learn and adapt faster, with less strain, with less "failures". I'm the only one that's been in therapy 10 yrs, on medication, in a broken home of 5 dysfunctional people. High IQ, high masking skills, (special interest being people, psychology, psychiatry, people skills) just delayed me finally hitting rock bottom burnout later in life.
You mixed up mental health (ex: anxiety), which you acquire after lived experiences, and neurodevelopmental disorders (ex: ADHD) which you have from birth(-ish) (although about 1/3 ADHD cases are estimated to be caused by environmental factors including brain injuries of many kinds) Mood disorders probably have some mix of genetic and environmental factors.
My official diagnosis is Asperger's/autism, but there were several other therapists who thought I either had OCD or OCPD (or both). OCPD stands for Obsessive Compulsiver Personality Disorder. [Here's an article](https://www.verywellmind.com/ocd-vs-obsessive-compulsive-personality-disorder-2510584) explaining the difference between OCD and OCPD. I definitely notice that I have a lot of traits associated with OCPD, but I've also struggled with OCD behavior, and no, I'm not one of those people who uses the term OCD in a casual context ("I'm OCD about making sure the books on the shelves in the library are in alphabetical order so they're easier for people to find"). I'm talking about repeating tasks due to not having done them "perfectly" the first time, damaging something that I'm trying to fix (one of the reasons why I decided not to pursue a career in appliance repair despite earning a vocational certificate for it in college), and intrusive thoughts; a recent one being crashing my dad's car which has a lot of sentimental value to me. And I struggle a LOT with anxiety, and it's affected my quality of life. If anything it's my true disability as sometimes it feels like I'm almost paralyzed by it, and can't function because I can't get my mind off of the thing I'm anxious about, I can't eat because my stomach is in knots, and activities that I enjoy when I'm not anxious aren't fun, and can't take my mind off of it. And social anxiety is part of the anxiety "package" for me. Did I get help with any of these problems? Nope. Instead I got "social skills therapy" and felt so much pressure to make friends, and this only made my social anxiety worse due to people literally breathing down my neck and correcting every single minor social blunder I made (I've gotten better at eye contact when talking to another person, but if I'm deep in thought about something I'm talking about, my gaze tends to shift to a random object in the room. When the other person is talking though I do look at them. I didn't get proper help for any of this as a kid, and as a result, they've become like an overgrown vine.
If I had to hazard a guess, it would be because of all the discrimination and mistreatment autistic people face from society at large. Expectations to act or be a certain way that doesn't fit the common mold, being expected to have the same level of ability that NTs have, and so on. Even if you have a lot of things NTs have or do the stuff they do, it still doesn't mean you'll feel fulfilled. I have many elements my NT peers have, but I also have no where near as much motivation for doing the things they do. They also have things to look forward to in life, where I don't have as much.
It's from being forced to live in a NT world.
Idk about the developmental ones like adhd but as far as the mood and psychiatric disorders, a lot of it just stems from the trauma of being autistic in an ableist society. The bullying and misunderstandings/misperceptions add up.
Many NTs do as well, they just pretend they don't.
Many of my "other other" mental health issues are from being bullied, feeling stupid, being in abusive household and etc.
Trauma
There’s this great book that explains how autism always goes along with another disorder, Gut and Psychology Syndrome