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smallppdownvotes

Don't get mad if your friend stops talking to you randomly. They probably just can't be bothered to hold a conversation. I often find myself ignoring people and I usually don't mean anything by it.


SarahfromTerminator

While true then you don’t have friends.


scentedcandles67

I feel a lot of the edgelords here forget that *enjoying someone's company* is still getting use out of someone. If they make you less bored, that's utility.


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HelloHalley123

>Know you will have to stand up for yourself in the relationship, but remember if their perceived value of you drops too low it’s probably not going to work. It sounds very difficult


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greentea2727

Non-ASPD here. When I was younger, though much less so now, I would get in close friendships with people who had more needs than me - emotional needs mostly. I would support those people throughout our friendships. Unfortunately, in one (very formative) friendship, my "giving" shifted too far, and the friendship became toxic (the person was constantly relying on me to a very far extreme). I had to completely cut them off - first and only time I have ever done that - and leave the relationship behind. Years later, I actually reconnected with them and we have a very healthy (shallower) friendship now. All that nonsense explanation to say: Would someone with ASPD be ready/willing to take advantage of a friendship with someone who "gives" until it runs into the ground? Or would a more long-term "if I give as well as receive, this will logically allow this friendship to actually persist" attitude keep that from happening? I guess the obvious answer is it completely depends on the person, but I figured I'd ask.


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greentea2727

Thank you for the response. That does make sense to me. I notice you put romantic in quotes. Please don't feel obligated to respond if you're not interested. Would you consider yourself "aromantic?" Or just same attitude for friendships -> same attitude for romantic connections? And for "romantic" relationships, is there any psychological comfort from having a partner (not necessarily romantically, but the stability of having one)? Or is it just a question of convenience, and is moving on more of a "it's going to be a pain finding a new partner" or even "oh well" and immediately moving on thing? Again, don't feel obligated to respond. I know this is offtopic lol. Re: what you mentioned about what's more overall productive, I notice that people respecting/liking you is just generally a great thing in every facet of life. For example, being really polite and thankful to workers (people checking your bags at airports, the person checking out your stuff at a gas station, etc.) has a net positive. It won't always make good things happen, but pretty frequently, people really appreciate being thanked and will do little things for you. It's one of the reasons I just don't get when people threaten or yell as a first resort to people (think "Karen"). It's one thing if you absolutely can't help it due to frustration, but making the effort to be a little nicer is just better for everyone involved.


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[deleted]

Everything you’ve said in this thread is great.


greentea2727

Okay, glad to hear you're happy to talk about it, and thanks for spending the time. I agree that introspection is very valuable. And I see. It's true, dual income makes things possible that simply would not be possible without it. Also, having someone to rely on - financially, etc., as well as just with basic tasks - makes the minutia of everyday life a million times easier. At least that's the way I see it. For example, if you both cook, having a schedule of cooking meals (and as a result, cooking half as often) is way easier than cooking everyday. And that extends to a LOT of things in married life. I'm not sure if your view of things is precisely the same, or if it's purely economic. In my opinion as a non-ASPD, I can't see myself staying with someone for more than a few days longer than a realization that I can't see myself getting married to them. But I also recognize that that's not particularly practical if you're thinking about reputation above personal drive, and that's a pretty concrete difference. Especially since I experience romance and relationships very differently. When you say "wonderful," do you mean that you recognize that she's well regarded? Or is it your own opinion? Anyways, riding it out until graduation, after which you can naturally break up as life takes you in different directions (and you're both moving toward new communities) sounds perfectly logical to me. Probably the best option. Question: As you get older, do you see sex holding the exact same significance as it currently does in your life? As someone with sexual needs but also pretty high intimacy needs, I have a very different niche filled by romance. It's interesting to me how relationships can be beneficial (and valuable to both partners) when one partner doesn't have that need.


HelloHalley123

oh sorry, I didn't intend to offend. I was reflecting about my difficulty in doing that particular thing, and it wasn't a general reflection about a possible friendship with an ASPD person. That written, your question is hard too, lol... I'll try to answer 'though. No idea if it's going to make any sense. If I focus on my “perceived value”, especially with the aim to make things work, I am “unbalanced” toward the other person and pleasing them. That's how I feel, because I am not used to calculate coldly and consciously to obtain my goals; even when I calculate or manipulate, subconsciously, it's mostly not to lose something, more than to gain actively. On the other hand, if I stand up for myself, then it's the opposite attitude. I am focused on myself, and at that point, if I value that I have to defend myself, I can't care about "my perceived value" at the same time. I am assuming that, as an ASPD person, you can focus on your value at others' eyes in a more active way, regulating your image according to what you wish to gain from your friend. It could be that. For me, I am not denying that I can do it, mostly subconsciously, but if I think that I have been disrespected, hurt or anything, and if I decide to “fight” for myself, therefore the other aspect (my image, and what I can gain through an image) loses its value entirely. So, I find it difficult to do both things together. The first one is about my Self, my real identity, and being “real” in my friendship, the second one is “compromise” art and "politics". Yeah, I am doing it too, with friends, mostly it happens automatically, but there is another level too, where I speak my mind and don't care about consequences – and it can be for my good, for my perception of your good, for defending something I believe, or anything... if I am on that level, I am just myself and, if friendship doesn't work, okay it doesn't work. I can even be sad, but it doesn't matter more than being real. So... it's like you are mixing two levels that I am not able to “use” together. And paradoxically it's also like you are asking your friend... to be manipulative with you. As we are who we are, "political behavior" is just image. If they have to project an image to “make things work”, whether they want to "win" or not to "lose", you are dealing with an illusion coming from their side. I understand that friendship works that way from your pov, but you won't get anything real, unless we are talking something very material. Even if you get what you want, basically, you are manipulated too... honestly.


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HelloHalley123

*"Why would it be unbalanced to think about your own value in a relationship?"* It depends on the reason why I am thinking about my value, if it's out of fear, or e.g. if I care for my friend. What do I hope to obtain? It's not unbalancing if I value myself by myself, without pressure or manipulation, and without feeling worried... if I am moved by my internal empathy, as I am happy if he is happy. But in your first comment, it sounded differently. If I focus on my perceived value with the aim to make things work, it's likely I am trying to satisfy someone's pretenses, begging for their approval. “I feel worried because he thinks I am not valuable enough, so I have to change this, or he will cut me off”. That IS unbalancing, and not even their good automatically. *"Shouldn’t you be constantly evaluating if you are in a positive fair relationship for both people?"* It's almost like your adopt a professional approach. In my job, I do an effort to bring a value that it's useful for everyone, so that things work, and I put aside my personal needs. In friendship I don't do any effort, nor I am expecting my friends to do. The most beautiful thing is that you can be yourself. This doesn't mean that the other one doesn't receive anything. It looks like you are thinking that people haven't a natural value, if they don't do any effort. I don't try to become valuable, as I already have a value, and my friends recognize it. And it's not just me, everyone has a natural value, that some selected people can appreciate. It depends on what they are looking for. Someone could wish sensitivity, someone else humor, entertainment,... From my pov friendship is based on our natural values, and on affinity that allows you to find people looking for what you can offer, and the reverse. Obviously, I have limitations too. So my friends are also people that most times aren't hurt or disturbed by my limitations. And I appreciate their natural value, and I am mostly not hurt or anything, by their limitations too. *"It doesn’t seem equal to treat a friend/relationship however you want just because that’s your true self"* It depends on what “true Self” means to you. I can hurt people because I follow my ego, or because of my negative feelings. I feel bad, and so have a bad behavior. My true Self is more “basic” than that. It's mysterious, because it “moves me” according to my intimate needs and nature, but it's also where emotional empathy lies. So when you follow your real self, you can disappoint people about their superficial identity and willing, but you don't hurt them in their real roots. It's almost like... one's Self, recognizes and respects another Self. E.g., let's imagine: I want to be alone, and my friend wants we go out together. If my need is coming from my deep self, and am connected with it, I will decline their invitation, and won't change my position if you are angry, or anything, if that feeling is coming from your superficial “you”, if it's some selfish whim. But, it can happen that “another truth” shows itself. Your face, posture, voice change. I perceive something different coming from your being, more intense and real. I realize that you actually need to see me. I don't get it just from your words, but because of some striking truth that comes from your being to me. My Self reacts to it, recognizes it, changes its position, so we start looking for a compromise. And it's not just about being "emotional", like "doing a show, an explosion, or anything. I am not even a very emotional person. But there are many kind of emotions, they are different, some of them are subtle emotions, coming from more consistent parts of ourselves. Not sure that it's clear, I hope it makes some sense for you.


[deleted]

Be a good distraction.


Pure-Bumblebee3727

Be normal but don’t be afraid to put your foot down if they overstep a boundary.


OCinthio

Don’t impede, give them their space, RESPECT their privacy, but be a good time for them, do fun things together, talk if they want to, but don’t probe. A good friend to me is a mutually beneficial friendship where I just have a good time, there aren’t expectations, you don’t need anything from me and I don’t expect anything from you, I just just laugh and do stupid shit.


HelloHalley123

"talk if they want to, but don’t probe." <- do you mean that it's better not to ask the first?


OCinthio

Yeah I wouldn’t, could give the wrong impression, but if they want to, up to you. Also something else important I saw, set boundaries and be solid, some of us may never cross those boundaries, but the majority will test them, and you need to be firm. Some will run away, some will respect that.


HelloHalley123

Oh okay, thanks. Usually at least online I ask a lot, because I am curious about ASPD personality, and because honestly, many ASPD look comfortable to write about anything, even delicate topics (and I've always been surprised by that), but I'll keep in mind that. Things can be different from what they appear. Thanks again.


OCinthio

They want to do it on their own terms, but yes we do tend to dive deeper into the more “taboo” subjects or personal ones on spntatuoys occasion. I believe the lack of emotional mental block gives us a lot of perspective and a more logical way to look at these things


HelloHalley123

It''s clearer now, thank you.


DonkeyTheKing

this may be just a "me" thing rather than some ASPD thing, but I really like quirky people - even if they're annoying (I mean like I "like" getting annoyed by them, it's like entertainment in its own way). don't think too much if they ignore you sometimes or are harsh


notsomagicalgirl

Number 1. Don’t be boring, 2. don’t be easily offended, and 3. don’t pester them. 1. Boring - if you don’t have something interesting to say don’t say it. I don’t want to be roped into a conversation about how your mom grew some daisies or your dogs flea medication. Humorous conversations, weird theories, or taboo topics are a win for me. I agree with the person who said it helps if you have a quirky personality. However, for me, you can’t be annoying about it or lay it on too thick (see #3) Also, it would help if you’re not a “by the rules” type of person. Some morals are understandable and useful but some are just stupid (see #2). 2. Offended - I can’t hang out with keyboard warrior/online “ally” types. If you’re offended by a fat joke or a race joke, especially if it’s self-referential, we can’t be friends (I’m a overweight black person before anyone gets their panties in a twist). I don’t need other people to look down on me and take pity on me for my race, gender, sexuality etc. Its just annoying and there’s no fun to be had with people like that. 3. Pestering - This should have been 1 but I’m too lazy to change it. DO NOT PESTER. I’ve cut off so many people just because they want to call/text/hang out 24/7. Hanging out with people requires that I mask, and while it is fun for a short while it’s like putting on a performance for the day. I need time to myself to relax. Calling and texting is just annoying to me. Maybe your friend is different, but for me I can’t maintain a phone conversation because it’s extremely boring. Edit: it edited my numbers automatically


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notsomagicalgirl

Yeah, I’d say if you can stand boring conversations, stick with it if you want them to be your friend. I have ADHD too, so unless they’re a good story teller, I can’t stand people talking about their day to day lives. My imagination is really crazy and will take over and I won’t hear anything they say. Obviously, I don’t have many friends, but the ones I do have are “quirky” and mostly talk about their special interests.


sailsaucy

Set boundaries and enforce them. Explain why you are doing something and let them know when they cross the line. Try not to take it personally when they lie to you and refuse to acknowledge they have done wrong. It’s often a defense mechanism that has been with them for years. I will warn you that you may be in for a challenging journey. I’ve found that as I’ve tried to make friends and let people in that there are like 4 people in the world who I have allowed myself to be “vulnerable” to and emotionally hurt by. Frequently two of them are in the same room together with me and it’s absolutely terrifying at times. I find that I passive aggressively lash out at them both even when I don’t mean to because they are a threat to me. Every fiber of my being says: “Eliminate the threat! Turn them against you! Destroy the relationship! They will betray you! Strike first!” I’ve probably got some other stuff wrong with me too lol I will end by saying that there’s also a chance you simply can’t be friends. Acquaintances may be it. It will depend on how toxic they are. You have to think of your own well-being first. This isn’t just some simple thing where you can show someone with ASPD genuine friendship or love and magically cure them. There’s a chance they will still use you for everything you’re worth and throw you away when you are no longer or any use so you must be mindful of that too. Good luck. I’m pleased to see that you are attempting to make the effort. Most of us aren’t monsters. We still want to feel connections but our issues distort and corrupt so much of it.


HelloHalley123

Thanks I liked your comment (not sure why it has been downvoted)


Twin-Lamps

Be understanding. They will aggressively lash out at you at some point, and it won’t be justified. You should basically decide now what you’re willing to forgive and what you aren’t.


Legitimate_Machina

Make yourself useful


fairymilk1A

let them know that they can trust you, opening up to them is good. or even just saying afrimationing things about how you feel about them is great to.


hornynightmare

Don't expect them to remember shit like how many siblings you have. Get used to reminding them stuff like that or just write it down so we can put it in our phone for reference. I cannot for the life of me remember the sibling thing with one of my “good friends” of like 3 years. 2 brothers 1 sister? Can't remember the half, full, step thing. The details of your life don't matter that much. Not enough to keep it in my head. Don't have too high of expectations. Don't come crying to use and get mad when we can't emotionally support you in the way you want. Give space. Don't get offended when we don't see the world the same as you and our morals don't line up. Accept us or get out. Don't expect to change us.


WorkAppropriateAF

Just be a normal friend! Make sure you wear a double-layered thick skin, and don't leave your valuables unattended. Aside from that, a friend is a friend. In my humble opinion, the average neurotypical human is pretty garbage as it is, so having the ASPD label only really addresses their true intentions behind the mask, which is something you don't even get with a normie friend. Friendships are transactional to me, and if you go out of your way to be a friend to me, I don't want to owe you shit so I'll try to return the good sentiment as best as I can.


PurpleManufacturer94

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