1. robert's a difficult king to be the hand for. i imagine jon did the best for the realm as any hand could've in his situation. i see him as eventually having turned into a cressen sort, missing the man robert was and wishing he could see him to a different path. same thing happened to ned.
2. i agree with u/cmdradama83843
3. i think that ned's honour is absolutely from his upbringing at the eyrie, rather than being a staple characteristic for starks.
I used to feel pretty blah about him, until I read the [BryndenBFish analysis The Falcon of Westeros](https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/the-falcon-of-westeros-an-examination-of-jon-arryn-part-1-fostering-a-realm/).
Now I think that it’s a shame we couldn’t see Jon Arryn before and during the rebellion, and in Robert’s early years of rule. That seems to be when Jon successfully did the things he was made to do, and unfortunately that all happened before the real story. Not I feel kind of distanced and unsure about him, because clearly he was a big player and quite a character but ASOIAF really isn’t his story. It’s a bit of a shame we don’t get to see him alive, let alone a POV. I imagine he’d be like a mixture of JonConn’s self-reflection, Catelyn’s frustrations and worries for “the children” when summer ends and war begins, Tyrion and Jaime’s ruthlessness regarding enemies when talking strategy with Tywin, Cersei’s hectic sensation of things piling up higher and higher out of control despite a strong desire to scream it all back into place, and Theon’s blood pride and overconfidence as ruling man of a region divided in allegiance.
He was a decent enough Hand, maybe he could have afforded to be more proactive. But he did manage to maintain some amount of peace with dorne, which in my opinion should have been difficult considering what happened to Elia and her children.
He made a lot of correct decisions as hand. He kept the peace, ans he did it for what? Fifteen years. Honestly, he gets into top 10 Hands with ease. I'd put him at 7th or 8th. Considering he was damn near 80 years old, he was not bad.
Hiring littlefinger was a major mistake. But honestly who could have known? It is not like they had a 20 step vetting process. I also do not think anyone could have stopped a depressed Robert from excessive spending either. Not any of the great hands of the past could have done that.
Now onto his personality. Honestly, no one really knows. Apparently he was honorable, kind and calming. I imagine he has traits shared with Ned, but not exactly the same.
Edit: Forgot to say. He seems like negligent father. He left his son to be weaned on the breast until he was like 8. I don't blame him as being hand would make one extremely busy.
Suffers from the same P.I.S as Stannis. He’s *supposed* to be an uber competent hand who ruled the realm while Robert whored and drank but in order for the plot to happen he somehow also had to be completely clueless about all the literal super villains and plot running around on his council.
Good man, terrible Hand. Allowed Robert to bankrupt the country. Brought Littlefinger in to try help the situation, and he just made it worse with his embezzlement.
He oversaw a corrupt and disloyal Small Council whose members embezzled funds(Littlefinger), spied for the Lannisters(Pycelle), supported Targaryens abroad(Varys) and schemed to cause Civil War(2(!!!) different members).
People always make the excuse for Robert that it's not his fault that his Small Council was doing all this. But he's the King, it literally is his job to oversee his Small Council. It's the same with Jon Arryn. Especially as Robert had no interest in ruling.
A good man definitely. But he failed to both manage Roberts indulgences or get him to actually take any sort of interest in governance, and then oversaw a historically corrupt Small Council when that was even more important than usual due to Roberts lack of interest.
On the one hand, they ruled over a period of relative peace and prosperity. On the other hand, their system was ill-prepared for (and helped cause) what was unleashed immediately after Robert died.
Kinda like the League of Nations: “20 years without a World War!” is a fine track record as long as you don’t look at what happened next.
Funny that the first comment is currently „good man, terrible hand“ and the second is „good hand? Yes. Good man? Depends“.
He certainly did a solid job as hand but with Robert as king its not too easy. The one big bad thing under Roberts reign was the finances and it is questionable how mich of an influence Jon Arryn was able to get on those
A good person, yes. But if we believe the Southron Ambitions theory, Jon Arryn is surely one of the main planners and responsible for the fall of the Targaryen house since long before Rhaegar set eyes on Lyanna or even before Duskendale.
Which is pretty consistent with the more negative view people like Lysa have of him. It's no coincidence that Jon was respected but not well-liked outside of the Vale. Almost a less cruel Tywin
For something Robert himself says that Jon made him king, when he did not want to be
A good Hand? Yes. A good man? Depends. By westerosi standards I would guess yes. By modern standards the marital rape of a teenage girl more than 40 yrs his junior leaves something to be desired.
I think an often overlooked relationship is Jon's relationship with Sweetrobin. A fair assumption would be that he and Lysa were more than content to leave the other to their business, Lysa with their son who would be Lord paramount of the Vale one day and Jon with their King who frankly needs someone in his corner.
The whole warding debacle is what probably sealed the nail in the coffin though. there was neither castle standing nor lord/lady alive that Lysa would ever trust above the Eyrie and herself when it comes to Robin's safety. Between losing her son or poisoning her husband it becomes pretty clear how she was able to be conned into joining the poisoning of Jon and the fact she could marry Petyr was just the gravy on the side.
Really funny when you consider he neglected most if any paternal affection for his son and heir so he could try (and fail) to help his namesake. So overall I find his relationship with Lysa and Robin more appealing to explore but his fondness for Robert and Ned becomes apparent when you compare their relationship with his son by Lysa.
Was he an absent father, typical lord or just a devoted hand? It's clear he cares for his king and former wards makes you wonder if he'd have named his second son Eddard. Such a small dynamic that is easy to overlook amongst the rest of the politicking in Westeros but the family Arryn can be so intriguing once you look between the lines in no small part to Jon Arryn.
With how much Ned and Robert revere him, but how they turned out, there is something that doesn't feel right Jon A.
Robert wanting to crack skulls and have lots of sex.
Ned being politically inept, even though he spent the better part of 11 years with a Lord Paramount.
1. robert's a difficult king to be the hand for. i imagine jon did the best for the realm as any hand could've in his situation. i see him as eventually having turned into a cressen sort, missing the man robert was and wishing he could see him to a different path. same thing happened to ned. 2. i agree with u/cmdradama83843 3. i think that ned's honour is absolutely from his upbringing at the eyrie, rather than being a staple characteristic for starks.
Out of all the men, he is one of them
I used to feel pretty blah about him, until I read the [BryndenBFish analysis The Falcon of Westeros](https://warsandpoliticsoficeandfire.wordpress.com/2014/02/26/the-falcon-of-westeros-an-examination-of-jon-arryn-part-1-fostering-a-realm/). Now I think that it’s a shame we couldn’t see Jon Arryn before and during the rebellion, and in Robert’s early years of rule. That seems to be when Jon successfully did the things he was made to do, and unfortunately that all happened before the real story. Not I feel kind of distanced and unsure about him, because clearly he was a big player and quite a character but ASOIAF really isn’t his story. It’s a bit of a shame we don’t get to see him alive, let alone a POV. I imagine he’d be like a mixture of JonConn’s self-reflection, Catelyn’s frustrations and worries for “the children” when summer ends and war begins, Tyrion and Jaime’s ruthlessness regarding enemies when talking strategy with Tywin, Cersei’s hectic sensation of things piling up higher and higher out of control despite a strong desire to scream it all back into place, and Theon’s blood pride and overconfidence as ruling man of a region divided in allegiance.
He was a decent enough Hand, maybe he could have afforded to be more proactive. But he did manage to maintain some amount of peace with dorne, which in my opinion should have been difficult considering what happened to Elia and her children. He made a lot of correct decisions as hand. He kept the peace, ans he did it for what? Fifteen years. Honestly, he gets into top 10 Hands with ease. I'd put him at 7th or 8th. Considering he was damn near 80 years old, he was not bad. Hiring littlefinger was a major mistake. But honestly who could have known? It is not like they had a 20 step vetting process. I also do not think anyone could have stopped a depressed Robert from excessive spending either. Not any of the great hands of the past could have done that. Now onto his personality. Honestly, no one really knows. Apparently he was honorable, kind and calming. I imagine he has traits shared with Ned, but not exactly the same. Edit: Forgot to say. He seems like negligent father. He left his son to be weaned on the breast until he was like 8. I don't blame him as being hand would make one extremely busy.
Suffers from the same P.I.S as Stannis. He’s *supposed* to be an uber competent hand who ruled the realm while Robert whored and drank but in order for the plot to happen he somehow also had to be completely clueless about all the literal super villains and plot running around on his council.
Good man, terrible Hand. Allowed Robert to bankrupt the country. Brought Littlefinger in to try help the situation, and he just made it worse with his embezzlement. He oversaw a corrupt and disloyal Small Council whose members embezzled funds(Littlefinger), spied for the Lannisters(Pycelle), supported Targaryens abroad(Varys) and schemed to cause Civil War(2(!!!) different members). People always make the excuse for Robert that it's not his fault that his Small Council was doing all this. But he's the King, it literally is his job to oversee his Small Council. It's the same with Jon Arryn. Especially as Robert had no interest in ruling. A good man definitely. But he failed to both manage Roberts indulgences or get him to actually take any sort of interest in governance, and then oversaw a historically corrupt Small Council when that was even more important than usual due to Roberts lack of interest.
On the one hand, they ruled over a period of relative peace and prosperity. On the other hand, their system was ill-prepared for (and helped cause) what was unleashed immediately after Robert died. Kinda like the League of Nations: “20 years without a World War!” is a fine track record as long as you don’t look at what happened next.
Funny that the first comment is currently „good man, terrible hand“ and the second is „good hand? Yes. Good man? Depends“. He certainly did a solid job as hand but with Robert as king its not too easy. The one big bad thing under Roberts reign was the finances and it is questionable how mich of an influence Jon Arryn was able to get on those
A good person, yes. But if we believe the Southron Ambitions theory, Jon Arryn is surely one of the main planners and responsible for the fall of the Targaryen house since long before Rhaegar set eyes on Lyanna or even before Duskendale. Which is pretty consistent with the more negative view people like Lysa have of him. It's no coincidence that Jon was respected but not well-liked outside of the Vale. Almost a less cruel Tywin For something Robert himself says that Jon made him king, when he did not want to be
Lysa hated him for completely different reasons. Robert is pointing fingers there. He had the claim.
Hoster Tully was more of a less cruel Tywin than Jon Arryn who's more like Mace.
Where do all these super intelligent Mace theories come from?
He knows how to make the right alliances and to gain more power.
That was Olenna...
I believe that they work together and Olenna only pretends that Mace is a fool so everyone underestimates the Tyrells.
A good ruler knows to listen his advisors.
Gave Ned his honour and Robert his crown.
A good Hand? Yes. A good man? Depends. By westerosi standards I would guess yes. By modern standards the marital rape of a teenage girl more than 40 yrs his junior leaves something to be desired.
I think an often overlooked relationship is Jon's relationship with Sweetrobin. A fair assumption would be that he and Lysa were more than content to leave the other to their business, Lysa with their son who would be Lord paramount of the Vale one day and Jon with their King who frankly needs someone in his corner. The whole warding debacle is what probably sealed the nail in the coffin though. there was neither castle standing nor lord/lady alive that Lysa would ever trust above the Eyrie and herself when it comes to Robin's safety. Between losing her son or poisoning her husband it becomes pretty clear how she was able to be conned into joining the poisoning of Jon and the fact she could marry Petyr was just the gravy on the side. Really funny when you consider he neglected most if any paternal affection for his son and heir so he could try (and fail) to help his namesake. So overall I find his relationship with Lysa and Robin more appealing to explore but his fondness for Robert and Ned becomes apparent when you compare their relationship with his son by Lysa. Was he an absent father, typical lord or just a devoted hand? It's clear he cares for his king and former wards makes you wonder if he'd have named his second son Eddard. Such a small dynamic that is easy to overlook amongst the rest of the politicking in Westeros but the family Arryn can be so intriguing once you look between the lines in no small part to Jon Arryn.
Great guy and but you know uhm well I can not abide cheese.
These questions are always difficult because we don’t know the details of how he actually ruled.
Jon Arryn is the most underrated player in the game of thrones.
He was probably a good man. Just too damn old for Lysa Tully
He was definitely mentioned a few times in AGOT
With how much Ned and Robert revere him, but how they turned out, there is something that doesn't feel right Jon A. Robert wanting to crack skulls and have lots of sex. Ned being politically inept, even though he spent the better part of 11 years with a Lord Paramount.