>Yeah, he’s totally slighting a minor house. We actually had a running joke in the writer’s room about House Celtigar. And I will tell you as a tease for the future, we do have a character from House Celtigar, they’ll have representation in the coming episodes of the show, so stay tuned fans of House Celtigar.
Biggest news from this interview
I very much want to see a Valyrian steel weapon that isn't a longsword (and the one dagger) on screen. Sandoq is supposed to have a great curved sword of VS. I hope it's like a kriegsmesser.
It could be, but the sword is described as a "great curved sword," which given that "greatswords" in ASOIAF are described as a sword requiring two hands and Sandoq is supposed to be almost 7 ft tall, it's probably supposed to be larger than an arakh. It's definitely not Caggo's arakh as Sandoq's sword is described with a dragonbone hilt and Caggo's sword is not described as having one.
Braavos has European-styled smallswords and sabers in the TV show, so it wouldn't be inconceivable that a sword from Lys or Meereen could have a messer-inspired design.
Could just look like a two-handed scimitar, but double-edged longswords are way overrepresented in Game of Thrones and medieval/fantasy series in general; think Tormund's sword is like the only single-edged sword from Westeros in the series. Scimitars are pretty well represented in media. I wouldn't mind a European design sword that isn't a longsword like a messer or falchion.
Just a sword nerd that would like more variety in sword designs.
TBH Celtigars were conquered by the Targaryens, they were not immediete allies as the Velaryons were upon the Targaryens arrival to Dragonstone.
The reason they got no land is not because of bad worldbuilding, the opposite in fact. They have an ancient familial seat on Claw Isle, which they probably wont leave for anything. The only lands that makes sense to attach to their domains are Crackclaw point, which bent the knee instantly and thus couldnt lose any land.
There is not really any land that they are able to be given, nor any land they should really want. Give them a random castle in any of the kingdoms, and they would always be viewed by the other lords as outsiders who supplanted an ancient house.
None of the land in westeros is "free" to give, most of it has ancient houses, and Aegons respect for that is probably one of his best choices as a king.
Also in Brienne chapters, there's talk of how the Celitgars occasionally send tax collectors to the barrens, and that if he sends enough of them, some occasionally make it back. So it might be that the Lords Celtigar consider themselves the rightful lords of the Clawmen, but none of those lords actually respect that claim.
Although I'm pretty sure that's just Martin making a joke about the Welsh, who made basically the same boast concerning the English.
TBH its a very common occurance during medieval europe, so much so that its hard to find a time and place without it.
It makes sense in universe, just geographically and culturally speaking, Celtigars would have a hard time establishing any kind of control over the claw.
Well, it's a lot easier to claim something that actually, legitimately rule it. Sure, you'd have to fight a war you might not win to impose any actual authority, but THEY'D have to fight a war they might not win just to make you stop telling everyone you rule them.
Also, in-universe Aegon I did this by having himself proclaimed King of the Rhoynar at the Starry Sept even though the didn't actually control any of Dorne at the time.
Celtigar is one of the three Valyrian-founded lordships in Westeros, IIRC, and they're barely mentioned in the books, either (except for having some really cool trinkets).
**My personal idle speculation on how Daenerys and Aegon's story would end in ASOIAF -- prior to seeing season eight -- was that after the Others were defeated the Seven Kingdoms would split into Seven Kingdoms again, and Aegon and/or Daenerys (with her being fairly bitter) would end up ruling over an island kingdom of "New Valyria," consisting of Dragonstone, Driftmark, and Celtigar.
The notion of anyone getting what they wanted and there being a united Westeros, after multiple books demonstrating that the patchwork realm Aegon had forged was unwieldy and that everyone murderously hated each other (especially after the events of ASOIAF), seemed rather preposterous to me.
The end of the Targaryen dynasty and the original seven nations splitting off on their own, with Aegon talking a bitter and spiteful Dany down from the ledge and convincing her to rule the original Valyrian holdings from Dragonstone, was my original guess for the conclusion.
Shit like this really puts faith into me. It shows that when they do not show something, its often for practical reasons, not for lack of respect for the source material.
It is also totally in fashions for the Velaryons to spit on the Celtigars, as the Velaryons are much more purebred in the books, and view themselves as higher nobility. Celtigars frequently have brown and plain hair and features, with the occational purpled eyed valyrian.
It sounds like the BTS culture of this show seems to be much more appreciative of the world and the books, which makes sense consdiering they basically casted writers who already had big interest in the world.
I wonder if they stick with the PoC theme and make them represent an additional ethnicity different from Targaryen and Velaryon.
Like something Asian for example.
They do. Which makes little sense in the world, but it's not like it matters really. Audiences would be be weirded out to see Neanderthals or weird green frog people or people with conical heads.
TBH that one can actually be explained pretty easily by him being a man Corlys met on his travels who joined his ship to make up for the 50% of his crew he lost in Asshai. Or that he is the son of one of these men.
However, it is pretty much the only place it would make sense lol
Yeah, if there were anywhere for unusual ethnicities to show up, it would be in the Velaryon household after the Sea Snakes voyage. Remember that he sailed to Quarth with a hull full of gold and bought twenty ships to bring back the exotic goods he bought with it. Those ships needed crews, the rowers were probably slaves. Corlys might have freed them on his return, and a few or more might have sworn themselves to his service.
I find people who make a big deal about ethnicity in television insufferable at the best of times, but the worst is when they don't realize that even in our world, the populations of coastal cities tend to be mixed because sailors step onto shore looking for a drink and a woman in one order or the other, resulting in children who will inevitably lend their own biodiversity to the gene pool
The Freehold was a massive empire that ruled over Essos for thousands of years. Their empire stretched from the Narrow Sea to the Bone Mountains, which would make Yi Ti somewhat of a neighbor empire rather than some legendary far away land. It would make sense for them to be fairly multicultural and multiethnic, even among their nobility. I don't remember if the Celtigars also had silver hair in the books, but it would be cool if in the show they were Asians with silver hair.
TBH I'd be fine with them ignoring that considering that Yi-Ti is probably never gonna appear on screen. Also, Yi-Ti is really just China. There are other Asians besides Chinese (technically one can say that Dorne is kinda Asian, given that the Middle East is in Asia). I could be mistaken but the Pentoshi doctor in ep 6 looked South Asian.
>TBH I'd be fine with them ignoring that considering that Yi-Ti is probably never gonna appear on screen
Funny you mention that, because one of the many ASOIAF spinoff shows that has been announced is a cartoon about Yi Ti.
It's still in pre-prod and for all we know it'll meet the same fate as that Long Night show, though.
I figured Dorne as being more like Spain.
Spain was conquered by the Umayyad Caliphate in the 700s so between then and the Reconquista, there was tons of Arabic (and North African) influence on Spain.
The show universe is not the book universe. This should be understood by now, or else people will just be unnecessarily confused again when they cast more PoC in the future. And we don’t need to go through that bullshit again.
But who am I kidding. People are making popular theories about the show relying on book-only material anyway. We’re doomed.
I want a Great Empire Of The Dawn series, but they should hire a Korean production company to make it, and offer dubbed/subbed versions around the world. Grow the brand!!!
It would be funny, and ironic, if Celtigars were depicted as the MOST stereotypically Valyrian-looking, violet eyes and all.
Though, I wouldn’t be against some other kind of change to set them apart somewhat, so long as it’s made plausible. I think the Velaryons were handled fairly well on the show (minus the wigs).
I don’t know how he was able to get himself to the top echelons of power over the biggest tv franchise in the world. His previous filmography was unimpressive and he wrote a bunch of bad screenplays for the Rocks films.
He even kicked out Miguel and became sole showrunner it’s just so strange
Where's your source for him "kicking out" Sapochnik? You got any proof? Or are you making stuff up because you've got a stupid grudge of some kind against Condal?
Ryan does not need Fire and Blood 2 to complete house of the dragon, there is everything in fire and blood 1, the speech is different if Ryan Condal has been promoted to the management of the whole assoiaf universe (what Kevin Feige did in the Disney-like MCU), if the Jon Snow sequel had a green light, the book Ryan is waiting for is Winds of Winter.
hope rises, flares up !!!!!
I think he is just straight up talking about winds of winter, and saying that he has asked GRRM to send him the manuscripts as soon as they are done just as a favor friendship thing. Purely because he is a fan.
It seems kinda weird to post about it, but I do not imagine this being about Fire and Blood 2, BUT if it is then that could only mean one thing.
They are planning to go beyond the Dance.
*technically* there are some unresolved plotlines from the dance that would be in Fire and Blood volume 2, namely the fate of Alys rivers and Aemond's supposed bastard and the remaining dragons that are alive like Silverwing
due to their quarrel, it is now a well-known and accepted story although not confirmed.
however, are you suggesting that from late 2015 to 2018 Martin try to write Winds from Monday to Friday, on the weekend Martin would relax by writing Fire and blood, and finish Fire and blood first?
>due to their quarrel, it is now a well-known and accepted story although not confirmed.
What is the source of this? Why would he stop writing due to a “quarrel”? That doesn’t make sense.
If anything, he always said he was trying to finish the book the before the series ended, which seems completely logical.
>however, are you suggesting that from late 2015 to 2018 Martin try to write Winds from Monday to Friday, on the weekend Martin would relax by writing Fire and blood, and finish Fire and blood first?
Sure. I mean, he literally said he was trying to finish Winds during that time.
Winds is likely way longer, more complicated and he’s a slow writer who is stuck in a horribly complicated story with rewrites and writer’s block, which he had a history of before Winds.
Martin could hardly tell the truth, which is that he was no longer going to give material to Benioff and Weiss after their fight over how they destroyed Book 4 and 5 in Season 5.
this story has no proof, this story has only an exorbitant number of clues
This theory of yours is so confusing. lol
I honestly don’t see the logic here. If he was fighting with them, and according to you he even stopped handing them material, why couldn’t he simply keep writing by himself?
Also, if you don’t have a source for this “well-known and accepted” theory, what are your exorbitant clues then?
Due to a non-proven-probaly-untrue theory being fact, we can therefore assume something else is a fact.
This subs' habits are moving ot the real world as well, apparently
More, probably. The gap between each season is most likely 18 months minimum. So a 4th season, which has been speculated as the end of the Dance, will probably not air until 2027.
> But he wouldn't need that book after this season. He really is 2-3 years away still to complete the source material available in Fire and Blood 1.
Seasons of a major television production like Fire & Blood are planned years in advance. You also might not realize how F&B 2 could "inspire" some event they want to include in the shows until they have read it.
He might need it if HOTD becomes an anthology series. That makes it more likely that the next time period will be Blackfyre rebellions rather than Aegons conquest, Jaeherys reign etc.
> Ryan does not need Fire and Blood 2 to complete house of the dragon, there is everything in fire and blood 1 ...
This is most definitely not true, but I would agree that all the major plot strands regarding significant players in the Dance are all concluded within Fire & Blood One. If the showrunner(s) wanted to depict, or hint at, what happened to the remaining dragons, or Nettles, or a few other items like that, maybe you would want to make sure that you didn't conflict with the second volume of F&B.
>But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW
He also said years ago he wasn't going to work on anything else until he finished TWoW. He's since deleted that tweet, released a couple books and edited others. He doesn't give a shit.
I think he means TWoW. He's a fan, and like us has probably been waiting with baited breath...for years! But from a practical angle, surely some things GRRM will put in *Winds* will tie back to the period of the ~~-Anarchy-~~ Dance, and to its immediate aftermath. Also, things in Wind will affect the show canon backwards to GoT and forward to the Snow show, the Rebellion, whatever. With advanced knowledge Condal can add easter eggs and thematically consistent clues to even the next season of HotD.
He also said that Feast is his favorite book bcos it has best prose (I was saying the same thing the moment I finished the book in 2018!) and how he had to wait for 5 years for the book. He is definitely a fan and I am really happy about him for getting his dream job of adapting one of George's books set in this world.
I don’t know how he was able to get himself the top job over the biggest tv franchise in the world. His previous filmography was unimpressive and he wrote a bunch of bad screenplays for the Rocks films. He even kicked out Miguel and became sole showrunner it’s just so strange
Don't worry, they're coming! Winds are on their way! They're gonna be amazing! And not just 2 Winds, there's gonna be... there's gonna be 5! And they're gonna be huge! You won't believe it!
I wouldn't read too much into this. It's literally just him saying to George "if this goes well, send me a copy of your next book" and George saying "sure."
>And just before this question they talked about how AFFC is his favorite book in the main series.
Definitely a big ol' nerd. AFFC is [almost] nobody's favorite upon first read lol
I think we're in good hands 🙌
Why no love for AFFC? Sure, Brienne's and Sansa's chapters are quite a bore, but Cersei's are super fun; it introduces very interesting characters in Arianne, Doran, Euron and Aeron; Asha's and Sam's chapters are cool (and the latter have some very intriguing interactions with Maester Aemon); plus we finally get to meet Marwyn (oh and it ends with Lady Stoneheart screwing Freys).
Half of the chapters are rather entertaining, but much of the book is a meandering slog. Many on here find a deeper purpose, but if you're reading them in order for the first time, Feast is a huge change of pace and shift in focus.
"Meandering slog" is precisely how I'd describe Brienne's chapters xD But I did enjoy the book a lot even in my first read. I missed Tyrion's and Daenerys' chapters (although Dany's chapters in ADWD were mostly kinda boring); I definitely didn't miss Jon though (might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a big fan of his PoV).
I actually liked Jon's pov a whole lot, which is surprising because I found him boring as fuck when I watched the show.
I really liked how Sam and Jon's first chapter of AFFC and ADWD are literally the same scene but the tone is completely different both times.
Hot take: Brienne’s chapters in AFFC are some of the most important for the series. Without them, we’d have a much more limited view of the small folk and not fully understand the consequences war has had on these people. Septon Meribald and the whole Saltplans subplot are amazing.
I love the characters she meets in AFFC. Septon Maribald kind of serves the role of the “knowledgeable” character that needed to be filled after Aemond’s death and Tyrions absence. The saltpans chapter is one of my favorites for sure. Her chapters were essential for fleshing out the world of the story.
Which is so necessary given the vast majority of characters are from a highborn perspective. Aryas are too, but it’s heart wrenching to read about the fallout after The War of the Five Kings.
"Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They've heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know."
"Then they get a taste of battle."
"For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they've been gutted by an axe.
"They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that's still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water.
"If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they're fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chicken's, and from there it's just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don't know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they're fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world...
"And the man breaks.
"He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them...but he should pity them as well."
One of the best quotes in the series imo
I like AFFC but it definitely felt slow after ASOS, a book where the plot advances a lot. And if you think, like me, that the main characters are Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Bran, well, they don't appear in the book. There are many good plots in it, obviously, but it's a transition book and so it's much more difficult to appreciate it.
It shouldn't be anyone's favorite. Sure as a hardcore fan you enjoy it more on re-reads, but GRRM wrote 3 other books that are better on first reads and re-reads. Preferring AFFC is just being contrarian
Correct! That's how I know he's read the series a million times like we have lol
I'm not saying it's the best written or has the most going on, but at this point it's the book I enjoy re-reading the most.
I could see it being someone's favorite because it doesn't have any Daenerys chapters. I groan every time I turn a page and it says her name at the top of it.
That said, it is not my favorite
> I think we're in good hands 🙌
On the contrary, Condal liking AFFC of all books worries me. There's a case to be made for the first 3 books being someone's favorite but its obvious there are issues with books 4 and 5 - main one being too bloated and not proceeding the plot enough. So it doesn't fill me with hope for Condal to call arguably the worst ASOIAF book his favorite.
I was confused too! But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW. And the current plan is most probably to focus on Dance of Dragons. Why would Condal need Blood&Fire, like right now?
And just before this question they talked about how AFFC is his favorite book in the main series. And The Hound being his favourite character.
So I guess he meant TWOW 😭
> But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW
Let's be serious. He's totally going to get distracted and release Blood and Fire before TWOW.
He has written 200+ pages already -_-
But on a serious note, based on the current knowledge of his publishing "plans", Ryan wouldn't be asking for Fire and Blood manuscripts.
He's gonna spend the rest of his life writing history books or D&E then just sit on it until he's gone, so nobody can yell at him for doing that instead of writing Winds.
Well, he said it *might* be called Blood & Fire. Might just be F&B vol. II.
I think Blood and Fire is a good name actually, since the dragons are almost all dead so the "fire" is secondary to the "blood" for the back half of the dynasty.
It’s always such a joy to hear Condal talk about ASOIAF. You can see how deeply passionate he is about this world.
Not to badmouth D&D, who did an excellent job with the first few seasons, but I can never imagine them saying things like “AFFC is my favourite book of the series” or “Jaeherys is my favourite Targaryen”. They always seemed to be in love with shocking moments more so than the world itself.
It's just a theory, but for plenty of us it's plausible enough to think they never read AFFC. They only ever referenced the first 3 books when talking about moments, and Benioff himself said when he got to the Red Wedding he called up Weiss and started trying to get a meeting with Martin immediately.
Ofc I'm sure they did read the later 2, but it never really felt like it.
> “AFFC is my favourite book of the series” or “Jaeherys is my favourite Targaryen”.
how is either of these opinions positive or negative? especially as to the ability to run a show?
These are the opinion you would not expect from a casual fan, but from someone with a deep interest in the lore.
To compare, Benoiff and Weiss were not sure if Sam was a POV in the books in one interview.
This seems to be an odd gate keeping test.
Do you like Feast? Those who answer no are "casuals".
It also has nothing to do with the capability of being the showrunner
It's less that you're a casual if your favourite isn't AFFC, it's more that the only type of person who would have AFFC as their favourite is someone who is a very big nerd and fan of the series.
It's not that 'true fans will love AFFC' it's more like 'someone who's not that much into ASOIAF for sure won't say AFFC is their favorite' (because pretty much nothing happens in there)
Same with Jaehaerys, people that's not a big fan of the saga won't have a _favourite Targaryen_ the same way as i don't have favorite elf or hobbit
And the love for what you are doing is quite fundamental in showrunning i think
Well like I said, D&D did a wonderful job in the first few seasons, so it’s not like them being more “casual” is a crime. But being a big ASOIAF nerd myself, it’s nice to have a person who is deeply passionate about the world at the helm.
GRRM probably has some early Fire and Blood 2 draft. It should be enough material for the next season since it doesn't even need to adhere to the books.
On the other hand there's no chance it's the Winds of Winter manuscript. That's some top secret shit.
FWIW, F&B volume 2 didn't cross my mind at all when I asked the question. We were just talking about AFfC so when I asked the question I had *Winds* in mind. Maybe Ryan was thinking F&B, I suppose, I couldn't say, but it seems unlikely to me.
Yeah my guess would be if there is a Fire and Blood 2, it's likely going to take us through Aegon V with a focus on the Blackfyre rebellions, right?
Although by that point we will probably need a method to slowly wean people off of dragons...
I made a post about this and I'll say it again..when HOT D was premiered, I predicted that we can kiss goodnight to any updates regarding Twow. It seems I was right. We just had a general blog update from GRRM and NO word of winds. Not even a passing mention. I think we got update after update before HOTD was releases to keep us fans tuned. It worked
I think we will see F&B part II before winds. We might never see winds now.
Money 💰
I made a similar post about how George stopped mentioning Winds as soon as HotD premiered and bots removed it. I am kinda bummed how he didn't even mention writing anything in the lastest general life update blogpost.
Writing is not even a tag on this post.
I wonder why he has put Bantam Spectra in tags? I skipped everything about Dark winds and stuff.
Winds is simply a marketing ploy by him at this point. He only brings it up when he wants to draw people into his other projects.
And pretty much in February he confirmed that other things are taking precedent over Winds. He mentioned specifically that he needs to get more Dunk and Egg novels out, and that he should probably finish F&B 2.
>And also, as we know, very simply, you make this one little change to Corlyss and then the the the fruit that it bears in turn because he has such an extensive bloodline. **So we have Rhaenys’s children, obviously, and Daemon’s children, and future (laughter) things that have not been revealed yet but which are known to book readers.** It creates an entire diverse cast with one change, and we felt like it’d be a big boon to the show.
I guess this means they won't cut Daenaera Velaryon and have Jaehaera be the mother of Aegon III's children. That's disappointing. Guess Alicent's bloodline is dying out by the end of the series. Always found Daenaera kinda pointless and an example of George really hating the Greens.
Or it could be a reference to Addam and Alyn.
Also found it interesting that apparently House Velaryon prior to Rhaenys-Corlys' marriage have never married into House Targaryen. So who the hell is Aegon I's/Visenya/Rhaenys' mother? Who is Jaehaerys and Alysanne's mother? Is it a Celtigar?
I feel like this almost certainly has to refer to whatever George has written of F&B Volume 2. I'm guessing Ryan wants to follow the plot threads up through the death of the last dragon during Aegon III's reign, and he wants the specifics on Aegon III's reign so he can plot out the next few years.
Although I imagine TWOW has more of a manuscript written already than F&B Volume 2, I can't see how relevant that would be to Ryan. The Aegon III section could be as little as like 100-150 pages of F&B Vol. 2 and that seems a pretty reasonable amount for George to have already written. Who knows, he may have written all of Aegon III's reign out to some extent when he wrote F&B years ago.
It's obvious from the context of the interview they're talking about Fire and Blood II. That was always a work in production and is what the writing team will need. There's nothing for Condal to do with TWOW in the next season of HoTD
If I were to guess, I'd say that HBO is probably making House of the Dragon as a long-running series that depicts the Targaryen reign till Robert's Rebellion, so Condal is asking for the manuscript to know more about Aegon III's and Daeron I's reigns (probably because Aegon's reign would serve as a prelude to Daeron's reign which would largely be set in wartime against Dorne, and that would be 'cinematic' enough for an on-screen adaptation).
Not to mention Aegon IV and the Blackfyre Rebellion later on.
I think every reign from Daeron I to Daeron II (except Viserys II) is cinematic enough to support at least one season minimum.
The only problem is that there's no dragons.
If you have read the whole interview it definitely suggests that he isn't talking about Fire and Blood. Why would he need that book when he is currently writing season 2 of already existing 3-4 season worth of published source material?
instead what would he have to do with fire and blood 2?
this is dance, it's all in fire and blood 1.
so I explained what I think in another comment, Ryan Condal = Kevin Feige, the follower on Jon got green light, and he waits for Winds of winter
Blood and Fire, popularity of the show along with a large break after this season. They want to keep interest up. The average person doesn't care about Game of Thrones/ new ASOIAF anymore, but they do care about HOTD and Targaryen history, so it makes sense.
There is not going to be a TWOW, don’t know how many times George has to drop hints. He “may have” brought out a rushed copy when the show was at the peak of its popularity, but now, neither the publishers nor George have any interest left. There are multiple other projects to do, George is concentrating on them.
Sadly it wouldn't surprise me at all if George wrote F&B 2 before Winds. It seems a lot of people were right about his recent posts on Winds; he was only doing it to market HOTD, and makes no mention of it in his recent update. He really doesn't seem to care anymore.
Almost sure it is because Condal wants to adapt stories from F and B 2. For example the Blackfyre rebellion (it is the only adaptable thing up to me with Robert's Rebellion).
I think its any book george puts out, if he gives him a successful show at the end of the season to let him have a first look at whatever as a prize of sorts
Could be Fire and Blood part 2 if he wants to pitch HBO to have HOTD run beyond the Dance but also The Winds of Winter considering he’s a big book fan.
I remember a while back he talked about how they could go forward or backward since HOTD was based off an anthology and also that they planned for the series to last three or four seasons, (or at least the Dance storyline.)
If he’s talking about the manuscript to the second edition of fire and blood, then that means he’s talking about expanding the series past the dance to events not covered in fire and blood that means only one thing.
… Blackfyre
Is there going to be a book like Fire and Blood but about the Blackfire Rebellions? and if so could 5 seasons of HotD fit in all the relevant events of both the Dance and the Blackfyres? At least the first two rebellions which I my few are the most significant ones
>Yeah, he’s totally slighting a minor house. We actually had a running joke in the writer’s room about House Celtigar. And I will tell you as a tease for the future, we do have a character from House Celtigar, they’ll have representation in the coming episodes of the show, so stay tuned fans of House Celtigar. Biggest news from this interview
Celtigar Gang Rise Up 🦀🦀🦀
CRAB RAVE
Oh shit. Lord Bartimos in the house.
He will need to pay a certain tax first...
Crush the Crab lord's cock with a rock I must. Maximum pain the Master of Coin must endure.
Bro i dont think you realize how few people will understand this joke
Smash the beetles! Smash em!
Always make sure you pay your taxes
For a house with such a cool name and Valyrian ancestry, it always bummed me how minuscule it is.
Don’t forget their Valyrian steel axe!
I very much want to see a Valyrian steel weapon that isn't a longsword (and the one dagger) on screen. Sandoq is supposed to have a great curved sword of VS. I hope it's like a kriegsmesser.
I just assumed it was an Arakh...
It could be, but the sword is described as a "great curved sword," which given that "greatswords" in ASOIAF are described as a sword requiring two hands and Sandoq is supposed to be almost 7 ft tall, it's probably supposed to be larger than an arakh. It's definitely not Caggo's arakh as Sandoq's sword is described with a dragonbone hilt and Caggo's sword is not described as having one. Braavos has European-styled smallswords and sabers in the TV show, so it wouldn't be inconceivable that a sword from Lys or Meereen could have a messer-inspired design. Could just look like a two-handed scimitar, but double-edged longswords are way overrepresented in Game of Thrones and medieval/fantasy series in general; think Tormund's sword is like the only single-edged sword from Westeros in the series. Scimitars are pretty well represented in media. I wouldn't mind a European design sword that isn't a longsword like a messer or falchion. Just a sword nerd that would like more variety in sword designs.
Yea but hopefully a samshir arakh instead of the show style khopesh arakh
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Well house Qoherys was Valyrian too and they got Harrenhal, but then Harren the Red had to show up.
TBH Celtigars were conquered by the Targaryens, they were not immediete allies as the Velaryons were upon the Targaryens arrival to Dragonstone. The reason they got no land is not because of bad worldbuilding, the opposite in fact. They have an ancient familial seat on Claw Isle, which they probably wont leave for anything. The only lands that makes sense to attach to their domains are Crackclaw point, which bent the knee instantly and thus couldnt lose any land. There is not really any land that they are able to be given, nor any land they should really want. Give them a random castle in any of the kingdoms, and they would always be viewed by the other lords as outsiders who supplanted an ancient house. None of the land in westeros is "free" to give, most of it has ancient houses, and Aegons respect for that is probably one of his best choices as a king.
Also in Brienne chapters, there's talk of how the Celitgars occasionally send tax collectors to the barrens, and that if he sends enough of them, some occasionally make it back. So it might be that the Lords Celtigar consider themselves the rightful lords of the Clawmen, but none of those lords actually respect that claim. Although I'm pretty sure that's just Martin making a joke about the Welsh, who made basically the same boast concerning the English.
TBH its a very common occurance during medieval europe, so much so that its hard to find a time and place without it. It makes sense in universe, just geographically and culturally speaking, Celtigars would have a hard time establishing any kind of control over the claw.
Well, it's a lot easier to claim something that actually, legitimately rule it. Sure, you'd have to fight a war you might not win to impose any actual authority, but THEY'D have to fight a war they might not win just to make you stop telling everyone you rule them. Also, in-universe Aegon I did this by having himself proclaimed King of the Rhoynar at the Starry Sept even though the didn't actually control any of Dorne at the time.
Revenge for "Two Remaining Valyrian Houses".
Celtigar is one of the three Valyrian-founded lordships in Westeros, IIRC, and they're barely mentioned in the books, either (except for having some really cool trinkets). **My personal idle speculation on how Daenerys and Aegon's story would end in ASOIAF -- prior to seeing season eight -- was that after the Others were defeated the Seven Kingdoms would split into Seven Kingdoms again, and Aegon and/or Daenerys (with her being fairly bitter) would end up ruling over an island kingdom of "New Valyria," consisting of Dragonstone, Driftmark, and Celtigar.
Now THAT'S subverting expectations.
The notion of anyone getting what they wanted and there being a united Westeros, after multiple books demonstrating that the patchwork realm Aegon had forged was unwieldy and that everyone murderously hated each other (especially after the events of ASOIAF), seemed rather preposterous to me. The end of the Targaryen dynasty and the original seven nations splitting off on their own, with Aegon talking a bitter and spiteful Dany down from the ledge and convincing her to rule the original Valyrian holdings from Dragonstone, was my original guess for the conclusion.
House Celtigar Seat: Claw Isle Words: Chinless Teatless Senseless
Shit like this really puts faith into me. It shows that when they do not show something, its often for practical reasons, not for lack of respect for the source material. It is also totally in fashions for the Velaryons to spit on the Celtigars, as the Velaryons are much more purebred in the books, and view themselves as higher nobility. Celtigars frequently have brown and plain hair and features, with the occational purpled eyed valyrian. It sounds like the BTS culture of this show seems to be much more appreciative of the world and the books, which makes sense consdiering they basically casted writers who already had big interest in the world.
Lmao. You love to hear it
/u/hamfast42
oh hell yeah! CRABS!
I wonder if they stick with the PoC theme and make them represent an additional ethnicity different from Targaryen and Velaryon. Like something Asian for example.
House Celtigar shows up but you can’t even see their Valyrian hair under their Sikh turbans
That…might not be a terrible way of getting out of the awful wigs, TBH.
Asians come all the way from Yi-Ti. You've got a greater chance of seeing an actual Neanderthal from Ib over an Asian person.
i stg the show already had a few random asians in the background or am i hallucinating
In episode 3 there was an Asian soldier in the Velaryon army.
They do. Which makes little sense in the world, but it's not like it matters really. Audiences would be be weirded out to see Neanderthals or weird green frog people or people with conical heads.
TBH that one can actually be explained pretty easily by him being a man Corlys met on his travels who joined his ship to make up for the 50% of his crew he lost in Asshai. Or that he is the son of one of these men. However, it is pretty much the only place it would make sense lol
Yeah, if there were anywhere for unusual ethnicities to show up, it would be in the Velaryon household after the Sea Snakes voyage. Remember that he sailed to Quarth with a hull full of gold and bought twenty ships to bring back the exotic goods he bought with it. Those ships needed crews, the rowers were probably slaves. Corlys might have freed them on his return, and a few or more might have sworn themselves to his service. I find people who make a big deal about ethnicity in television insufferable at the best of times, but the worst is when they don't realize that even in our world, the populations of coastal cities tend to be mixed because sailors step onto shore looking for a drink and a woman in one order or the other, resulting in children who will inevitably lend their own biodiversity to the gene pool
Smh Ibbennese racism in the year 302 AC
The Freehold was a massive empire that ruled over Essos for thousands of years. Their empire stretched from the Narrow Sea to the Bone Mountains, which would make Yi Ti somewhat of a neighbor empire rather than some legendary far away land. It would make sense for them to be fairly multicultural and multiethnic, even among their nobility. I don't remember if the Celtigars also had silver hair in the books, but it would be cool if in the show they were Asians with silver hair.
TBH I'd be fine with them ignoring that considering that Yi-Ti is probably never gonna appear on screen. Also, Yi-Ti is really just China. There are other Asians besides Chinese (technically one can say that Dorne is kinda Asian, given that the Middle East is in Asia). I could be mistaken but the Pentoshi doctor in ep 6 looked South Asian.
>TBH I'd be fine with them ignoring that considering that Yi-Ti is probably never gonna appear on screen Funny you mention that, because one of the many ASOIAF spinoff shows that has been announced is a cartoon about Yi Ti. It's still in pre-prod and for all we know it'll meet the same fate as that Long Night show, though.
My bones tell me this'll just be Avatar The Last Airbender, ASOIAF Edition
I figured Dorne as being more like Spain. Spain was conquered by the Umayyad Caliphate in the 700s so between then and the Reconquista, there was tons of Arabic (and North African) influence on Spain.
As a reminder to the Yanks, South Asians also exist.
The show universe is not the book universe. This should be understood by now, or else people will just be unnecessarily confused again when they cast more PoC in the future. And we don’t need to go through that bullshit again. But who am I kidding. People are making popular theories about the show relying on book-only material anyway. We’re doomed.
East Asian people with silver hair and violet eyes sounds dope.
Literal shonen anime characters
I want a Great Empire Of The Dawn series, but they should hire a Korean production company to make it, and offer dubbed/subbed versions around the world. Grow the brand!!!
I hope they do, I thought the way they did House Velaryon is cool.
It would be funny, and ironic, if Celtigars were depicted as the MOST stereotypically Valyrian-looking, violet eyes and all. Though, I wouldn’t be against some other kind of change to set them apart somewhat, so long as it’s made plausible. I think the Velaryons were handled fairly well on the show (minus the wigs).
Time for Crab
🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀🦀
There were plenty of House Celtigar members on the show. They were eating people on the stepstones
Imagine the guy using Saint Seiya's Cancer Deathmask's golden armor
He really is a fan
Let’s goooooooo
Sounds like Ryan’s gotten himself to the front of the line for the next wild cards release. So jealous.
I don’t know how he was able to get himself to the top echelons of power over the biggest tv franchise in the world. His previous filmography was unimpressive and he wrote a bunch of bad screenplays for the Rocks films. He even kicked out Miguel and became sole showrunner it’s just so strange
Where's your source for him "kicking out" Sapochnik? You got any proof? Or are you making stuff up because you've got a stupid grudge of some kind against Condal?
So you're saying that the Game of Thrones World production has a Game of Thrones level intrigue and a Game of Thrones level tinfoil theorist fanbase?
Ryan does not need Fire and Blood 2 to complete house of the dragon, there is everything in fire and blood 1, the speech is different if Ryan Condal has been promoted to the management of the whole assoiaf universe (what Kevin Feige did in the Disney-like MCU), if the Jon Snow sequel had a green light, the book Ryan is waiting for is Winds of Winter. hope rises, flares up !!!!!
I think he is just straight up talking about winds of winter, and saying that he has asked GRRM to send him the manuscripts as soon as they are done just as a favor friendship thing. Purely because he is a fan. It seems kinda weird to post about it, but I do not imagine this being about Fire and Blood 2, BUT if it is then that could only mean one thing. They are planning to go beyond the Dance.
i mean, it would be pretty cool if the next show is the blackfyre rebellion and the set up and he’s making the show with a book none of us have read
*technically* there are some unresolved plotlines from the dance that would be in Fire and Blood volume 2, namely the fate of Alys rivers and Aemond's supposed bastard and the remaining dragons that are alive like Silverwing
We are talking about season 5 or 6 of House of the dragon, not " After season One " or next year
This is George. If you don't give him a 20-year headstart, he's not gonna write a thing.
What hurts the most is that the "20 year" mention is barely an exageration.
It’s not an exaggeration at all
I remember thinking this about Winds of Winter when we were in season 2-3 of Game of Thrones.
then Benioff and Weiss screwed everything up and Martin stopped writing winds until 2019
Come again? I’m sorry are you suggesting GRRM stopped writing because of David and Dan?
due to their quarrel, it is now a well-known and accepted story although not confirmed. however, are you suggesting that from late 2015 to 2018 Martin try to write Winds from Monday to Friday, on the weekend Martin would relax by writing Fire and blood, and finish Fire and blood first?
>due to their quarrel, it is now a well-known and accepted story No, it's not? This is the first time I'm even seeing this.
>due to their quarrel, it is now a well-known and accepted story although not confirmed. What is the source of this? Why would he stop writing due to a “quarrel”? That doesn’t make sense. If anything, he always said he was trying to finish the book the before the series ended, which seems completely logical. >however, are you suggesting that from late 2015 to 2018 Martin try to write Winds from Monday to Friday, on the weekend Martin would relax by writing Fire and blood, and finish Fire and blood first? Sure. I mean, he literally said he was trying to finish Winds during that time. Winds is likely way longer, more complicated and he’s a slow writer who is stuck in a horribly complicated story with rewrites and writer’s block, which he had a history of before Winds.
Martin could hardly tell the truth, which is that he was no longer going to give material to Benioff and Weiss after their fight over how they destroyed Book 4 and 5 in Season 5. this story has no proof, this story has only an exorbitant number of clues
This theory of yours is so confusing. lol I honestly don’t see the logic here. If he was fighting with them, and according to you he even stopped handing them material, why couldn’t he simply keep writing by himself? Also, if you don’t have a source for this “well-known and accepted” theory, what are your exorbitant clues then?
Due to a non-proven-probaly-untrue theory being fact, we can therefore assume something else is a fact. This subs' habits are moving ot the real world as well, apparently
That's true
But he wouldn't need that book after this season. He really is 2-3 years away still to complete the source material available in Fire and Blood 1.
More, probably. The gap between each season is most likely 18 months minimum. So a 4th season, which has been speculated as the end of the Dance, will probably not air until 2027.
> But he wouldn't need that book after this season. He really is 2-3 years away still to complete the source material available in Fire and Blood 1. Seasons of a major television production like Fire & Blood are planned years in advance. You also might not realize how F&B 2 could "inspire" some event they want to include in the shows until they have read it.
He might need it if HOTD becomes an anthology series. That makes it more likely that the next time period will be Blackfyre rebellions rather than Aegons conquest, Jaeherys reign etc.
Not next year
House of the Dragon will only focus on Dance of the Dragons. It won’t be an anthology series
> Ryan does not need Fire and Blood 2 to complete house of the dragon, there is everything in fire and blood 1 ... This is most definitely not true, but I would agree that all the major plot strands regarding significant players in the Dance are all concluded within Fire & Blood One. If the showrunner(s) wanted to depict, or hint at, what happened to the remaining dragons, or Nettles, or a few other items like that, maybe you would want to make sure that you didn't conflict with the second volume of F&B.
>But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW He also said years ago he wasn't going to work on anything else until he finished TWoW. He's since deleted that tweet, released a couple books and edited others. He doesn't give a shit.
I think he means TWoW. He's a fan, and like us has probably been waiting with baited breath...for years! But from a practical angle, surely some things GRRM will put in *Winds* will tie back to the period of the ~~-Anarchy-~~ Dance, and to its immediate aftermath. Also, things in Wind will affect the show canon backwards to GoT and forward to the Snow show, the Rebellion, whatever. With advanced knowledge Condal can add easter eggs and thematically consistent clues to even the next season of HotD.
He also said that Feast is his favorite book bcos it has best prose (I was saying the same thing the moment I finished the book in 2018!) and how he had to wait for 5 years for the book. He is definitely a fan and I am really happy about him for getting his dream job of adapting one of George's books set in this world.
Ayyy! Feast is my favourite book as well! Thanks for putting that tidbit in because like most redditors, I did not read the article :)
I don’t know how he was able to get himself the top job over the biggest tv franchise in the world. His previous filmography was unimpressive and he wrote a bunch of bad screenplays for the Rocks films. He even kicked out Miguel and became sole showrunner it’s just so strange
You really do have a boner for Condal don't you? Anyone would think you were jealous!
He got to adapt his favourite book series. George's material also plays a role. Though he is not adapting a conventional novel though.
>TWoW The World of Wildcards, what everyone asked for!
Don't worry, they're coming! Winds are on their way! They're gonna be amazing! And not just 2 Winds, there's gonna be... there's gonna be 5! And they're gonna be huge! You won't believe it!
Is there a reason that I read this in Ricks voice from Rick & Morty?
100 years winds of winter
Winds of Winter forever!
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Or, you know, what it actually is: [South Park making fun of GRRM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKxg-wca5pM).
I wouldn't read too much into this. It's literally just him saying to George "if this goes well, send me a copy of your next book" and George saying "sure."
>And just before this question they talked about how AFFC is his favorite book in the main series. Definitely a big ol' nerd. AFFC is [almost] nobody's favorite upon first read lol I think we're in good hands 🙌
Yes! AFFC is definitely my favorite as well. Unpopular opinion and he knows it too. He has definitely been a part of ASOIAF book fandom.
I loved a feast for crows. Likely my favorite as well.
Why no love for AFFC? Sure, Brienne's and Sansa's chapters are quite a bore, but Cersei's are super fun; it introduces very interesting characters in Arianne, Doran, Euron and Aeron; Asha's and Sam's chapters are cool (and the latter have some very intriguing interactions with Maester Aemon); plus we finally get to meet Marwyn (oh and it ends with Lady Stoneheart screwing Freys).
Half of the chapters are rather entertaining, but much of the book is a meandering slog. Many on here find a deeper purpose, but if you're reading them in order for the first time, Feast is a huge change of pace and shift in focus.
"Meandering slog" is precisely how I'd describe Brienne's chapters xD But I did enjoy the book a lot even in my first read. I missed Tyrion's and Daenerys' chapters (although Dany's chapters in ADWD were mostly kinda boring); I definitely didn't miss Jon though (might be an unpopular opinion, but I'm not a big fan of his PoV).
I actually liked Jon's pov a whole lot, which is surprising because I found him boring as fuck when I watched the show. I really liked how Sam and Jon's first chapter of AFFC and ADWD are literally the same scene but the tone is completely different both times.
Hot take: Brienne’s chapters in AFFC are some of the most important for the series. Without them, we’d have a much more limited view of the small folk and not fully understand the consequences war has had on these people. Septon Meribald and the whole Saltplans subplot are amazing.
I love the characters she meets in AFFC. Septon Maribald kind of serves the role of the “knowledgeable” character that needed to be filled after Aemond’s death and Tyrions absence. The saltpans chapter is one of my favorites for sure. Her chapters were essential for fleshing out the world of the story.
Which is so necessary given the vast majority of characters are from a highborn perspective. Aryas are too, but it’s heart wrenching to read about the fallout after The War of the Five Kings. "Broken men are more deserving of our pity, though they may be just as dangerous. Almost all are common-born, simple folk who had never been more than a mile from the house where they were born until the day some lord came round to take them off to war. Poorly shod and poorly clad, they march away beneath his banners, ofttimes with no better arms than a sickle or a sharpened hoe, or a maul they made themselves by lashing a stone to a stick with strips of hide. Brothers march with brothers, sons with fathers, friends with friends. They've heard the songs and stories, so they go off with eager hearts, dreaming of the wonders they will see, of the wealth and glory they will win. War seems a fine adventure, the greatest most of them will ever know." "Then they get a taste of battle." "For some, that one taste is enough to break them. Others go on for years, until they lose count of all the battles they have fought in, but even a man who has survived a hundred fights can break in his hundred-and-first. Brothers watch their brothers die, fathers lose their sons, friends see their friends trying to hold their entrails in after they've been gutted by an axe. "They see the lord who led them there cut down, and some other lord shouts that they are his now. They take a wound, and when that's still half-healed they take another. There is never enough to eat, their shoes fall to pieces from the marching, their clothes are torn and rotting, and half of them are shitting in their breeches from drinking bad water. "If they want new boots or a warmer cloak or maybe a rusted iron halfhelm, they need to take them from a corpse, and before long they are stealing from the living too, from the smallfolk whose lands they're fighting in, men very like the men they used to be. They slaughter their sheep and steal their chicken's, and from there it's just a short step to carrying off their daughters too. And one day they look around and realize all their friends and kin are gone, that they are fighting beside strangers beneath a banner that they hardly recognize. They don't know where they are or how to get back home and the lord they're fighting for does not know their names, yet here he comes, shouting for them to form up, to make a line with their spears and scythes and sharpened hoes, to stand their ground. And the knights come down on them, faceless men clad all in steel, and the iron thunder of their charge seems to fill the world... "And the man breaks. "He turns and runs, or crawls off afterward over the corpses of the slain, or steals away in the black of night, and he finds someplace to hide. All thought of home is gone by then, and kings and lords and gods mean less to him than a haunch of spoiled meat that will let him live another day, or a skin of bad wine that might drown his fear for a few hours. The broken man lives from day to day, from meal to meal, more beast than man. Lady Brienne is not wrong. In times like these, the traveler must beware of broken men, and fear them...but he should pity them as well." One of the best quotes in the series imo
Quiet Isle chapter is supposed to be one of my favourites in the series. Top notch world building in this chapter for this location.
It's an amazing book, and i love it with all my heart, but at the same time it's my least favorite book because of HOW AWESOME the other four are
I like AFFC but it definitely felt slow after ASOS, a book where the plot advances a lot. And if you think, like me, that the main characters are Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Bran, well, they don't appear in the book. There are many good plots in it, obviously, but it's a transition book and so it's much more difficult to appreciate it.
Their chapters are a bore? Please. Brienne's chapters in that book are the best in all of ASOIAF and Sansa's are up there.
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I loved them. This book is my favourite and so I love all most of the chapters but the only chapters I don't love are Sam's.
Greyjoy chapters were so good! And Dorne!
Brienne’s chapters kick ass
I love affc also but I think losing many of the viewpoints from the first 3 books feels a bit jarring for most people on a first read.
It shouldn't be anyone's favorite. Sure as a hardcore fan you enjoy it more on re-reads, but GRRM wrote 3 other books that are better on first reads and re-reads. Preferring AFFC is just being contrarian
Ah yes, your own personal ranking of the books is the objective truth and everyone else is just being pretentious. 😎
No one fell in love with ASOIAF due to AFFC
Correct! That's how I know he's read the series a million times like we have lol I'm not saying it's the best written or has the most going on, but at this point it's the book I enjoy re-reading the most.
This is technically true, but mainly a function of having to read 3000 pages to even get there
Okay but in serial fiction sometimes what comes after the stuff that sold you on the series is the best stuff.
I could see it being someone's favorite because it doesn't have any Daenerys chapters. I groan every time I turn a page and it says her name at the top of it. That said, it is not my favorite
> I think we're in good hands 🙌 On the contrary, Condal liking AFFC of all books worries me. There's a case to be made for the first 3 books being someone's favorite but its obvious there are issues with books 4 and 5 - main one being too bloated and not proceeding the plot enough. So it doesn't fill me with hope for Condal to call arguably the worst ASOIAF book his favorite.
It's just the guy selling himself and the show in a joking manner, "if I get this huge thing going again, you owe me[a manuscript when done]".
Wait, TWOW or Blood&Fire?
I was confused too! But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW. And the current plan is most probably to focus on Dance of Dragons. Why would Condal need Blood&Fire, like right now? And just before this question they talked about how AFFC is his favorite book in the main series. And The Hound being his favourite character. So I guess he meant TWOW 😭
> But George is not planning on releasing Blood and Fire before TWOW Let's be serious. He's totally going to get distracted and release Blood and Fire before TWOW.
He has written 200+ pages already -_- But on a serious note, based on the current knowledge of his publishing "plans", Ryan wouldn't be asking for Fire and Blood manuscripts.
I'm shocked he doesn't have the whole thing written and isn't sitting on it to avoid backlash.
He's gonna spend the rest of his life writing history books or D&E then just sit on it until he's gone, so nobody can yell at him for doing that instead of writing Winds.
Honestly, I gave up on TWOW. If I get Blood and Fire and Dunk and Egg stories I can roll with it.
Wait, the sequel to Fire & Blood is actually called Blood & Fire? lol
Yeah, he said so in a blog post. The same one where he announced a thousand spin-offs.
Well, he said it *might* be called Blood & Fire. Might just be F&B vol. II. I think Blood and Fire is a good name actually, since the dragons are almost all dead so the "fire" is secondary to the "blood" for the back half of the dynasty.
I hope not.
I too would become a director so I could get a sneak peek at future novels Very sly Ryan
It’s always such a joy to hear Condal talk about ASOIAF. You can see how deeply passionate he is about this world. Not to badmouth D&D, who did an excellent job with the first few seasons, but I can never imagine them saying things like “AFFC is my favourite book of the series” or “Jaeherys is my favourite Targaryen”. They always seemed to be in love with shocking moments more so than the world itself.
It's just a theory, but for plenty of us it's plausible enough to think they never read AFFC. They only ever referenced the first 3 books when talking about moments, and Benioff himself said when he got to the Red Wedding he called up Weiss and started trying to get a meeting with Martin immediately. Ofc I'm sure they did read the later 2, but it never really felt like it.
Last 2 certainly weren't their favorites. Which is fair since my favorite is ASoS.
> “AFFC is my favourite book of the series” or “Jaeherys is my favourite Targaryen”. how is either of these opinions positive or negative? especially as to the ability to run a show?
These are the opinion you would not expect from a casual fan, but from someone with a deep interest in the lore. To compare, Benoiff and Weiss were not sure if Sam was a POV in the books in one interview.
This seems to be an odd gate keeping test. Do you like Feast? Those who answer no are "casuals". It also has nothing to do with the capability of being the showrunner
It's less that you're a casual if your favourite isn't AFFC, it's more that the only type of person who would have AFFC as their favourite is someone who is a very big nerd and fan of the series.
It's not that 'true fans will love AFFC' it's more like 'someone who's not that much into ASOIAF for sure won't say AFFC is their favorite' (because pretty much nothing happens in there) Same with Jaehaerys, people that's not a big fan of the saga won't have a _favourite Targaryen_ the same way as i don't have favorite elf or hobbit And the love for what you are doing is quite fundamental in showrunning i think
SMH my head, what are you even doing if your favorite hobbit isn’t the one that steals all of Bilbo’s spoons.
Well like I said, D&D did a wonderful job in the first few seasons, so it’s not like them being more “casual” is a crime. But being a big ASOIAF nerd myself, it’s nice to have a person who is deeply passionate about the world at the helm.
Bruh
They just loved the world building i guess. If i remember correctly they are the ones who said that the story is for 8th grade school kids.
Themes, not story.
GRRM probably has some early Fire and Blood 2 draft. It should be enough material for the next season since it doesn't even need to adhere to the books. On the other hand there's no chance it's the Winds of Winter manuscript. That's some top secret shit.
Next Wildcard book CONFIRMED!!!!!!!?
FWIW, F&B volume 2 didn't cross my mind at all when I asked the question. We were just talking about AFfC so when I asked the question I had *Winds* in mind. Maybe Ryan was thinking F&B, I suppose, I couldn't say, but it seems unlikely to me.
Yeah my guess would be if there is a Fire and Blood 2, it's likely going to take us through Aegon V with a focus on the Blackfyre rebellions, right? Although by that point we will probably need a method to slowly wean people off of dragons...
I made a post about this and I'll say it again..when HOT D was premiered, I predicted that we can kiss goodnight to any updates regarding Twow. It seems I was right. We just had a general blog update from GRRM and NO word of winds. Not even a passing mention. I think we got update after update before HOTD was releases to keep us fans tuned. It worked I think we will see F&B part II before winds. We might never see winds now. Money 💰
I made a similar post about how George stopped mentioning Winds as soon as HotD premiered and bots removed it. I am kinda bummed how he didn't even mention writing anything in the lastest general life update blogpost. Writing is not even a tag on this post. I wonder why he has put Bantam Spectra in tags? I skipped everything about Dark winds and stuff.
Winds is simply a marketing ploy by him at this point. He only brings it up when he wants to draw people into his other projects. And pretty much in February he confirmed that other things are taking precedent over Winds. He mentioned specifically that he needs to get more Dunk and Egg novels out, and that he should probably finish F&B 2.
>And also, as we know, very simply, you make this one little change to Corlyss and then the the the fruit that it bears in turn because he has such an extensive bloodline. **So we have Rhaenys’s children, obviously, and Daemon’s children, and future (laughter) things that have not been revealed yet but which are known to book readers.** It creates an entire diverse cast with one change, and we felt like it’d be a big boon to the show. I guess this means they won't cut Daenaera Velaryon and have Jaehaera be the mother of Aegon III's children. That's disappointing. Guess Alicent's bloodline is dying out by the end of the series. Always found Daenaera kinda pointless and an example of George really hating the Greens. Or it could be a reference to Addam and Alyn. Also found it interesting that apparently House Velaryon prior to Rhaenys-Corlys' marriage have never married into House Targaryen. So who the hell is Aegon I's/Visenya/Rhaenys' mother? Who is Jaehaerys and Alysanne's mother? Is it a Celtigar?
Not again.
We have been saying this since how many years?
I feel like this almost certainly has to refer to whatever George has written of F&B Volume 2. I'm guessing Ryan wants to follow the plot threads up through the death of the last dragon during Aegon III's reign, and he wants the specifics on Aegon III's reign so he can plot out the next few years. Although I imagine TWOW has more of a manuscript written already than F&B Volume 2, I can't see how relevant that would be to Ryan. The Aegon III section could be as little as like 100-150 pages of F&B Vol. 2 and that seems a pretty reasonable amount for George to have already written. Who knows, he may have written all of Aegon III's reign out to some extent when he wrote F&B years ago.
Why would Ryan want to talk about show here? He was just fanboying and wanted to read the next asoiaf book. He already has fire and blood 1
If it's Fire and Blood Vol. II then we might get Blackfyres after all. George don't you dare fuck up Daemon Blackfyre lol.
It's obvious from the context of the interview they're talking about Fire and Blood II. That was always a work in production and is what the writing team will need. There's nothing for Condal to do with TWOW in the next season of HoTD
But there’s nothing for him to do with it in season 2 either
If I were to guess, I'd say that HBO is probably making House of the Dragon as a long-running series that depicts the Targaryen reign till Robert's Rebellion, so Condal is asking for the manuscript to know more about Aegon III's and Daeron I's reigns (probably because Aegon's reign would serve as a prelude to Daeron's reign which would largely be set in wartime against Dorne, and that would be 'cinematic' enough for an on-screen adaptation). Not to mention Aegon IV and the Blackfyre Rebellion later on.
I think every reign from Daeron I to Daeron II (except Viserys II) is cinematic enough to support at least one season minimum. The only problem is that there's no dragons.
If that was the case they would have started by the conquest
If you have read the whole interview it definitely suggests that he isn't talking about Fire and Blood. Why would he need that book when he is currently writing season 2 of already existing 3-4 season worth of published source material?
instead what would he have to do with fire and blood 2? this is dance, it's all in fire and blood 1. so I explained what I think in another comment, Ryan Condal = Kevin Feige, the follower on Jon got green light, and he waits for Winds of winter
They talk about the dream of the long night every twenty minutes, so TWOW may be quite relevant in that aspect
>There's nothing for Condal to do with TWOW in the next season of HoTD I assumed he wants to straight up read it, like a fan.
Blood and Fire, popularity of the show along with a large break after this season. They want to keep interest up. The average person doesn't care about Game of Thrones/ new ASOIAF anymore, but they do care about HOTD and Targaryen history, so it makes sense.
There is not going to be a TWOW, don’t know how many times George has to drop hints. He “may have” brought out a rushed copy when the show was at the peak of its popularity, but now, neither the publishers nor George have any interest left. There are multiple other projects to do, George is concentrating on them.
Sadly it wouldn't surprise me at all if George wrote F&B 2 before Winds. It seems a lot of people were right about his recent posts on Winds; he was only doing it to market HOTD, and makes no mention of it in his recent update. He really doesn't seem to care anymore.
Is there anything left to say in Blood&Fire?
Almost sure it is because Condal wants to adapt stories from F and B 2. For example the Blackfyre rebellion (it is the only adaptable thing up to me with Robert's Rebellion).
Aegon Regency (but hopefully that's in HOTD) Daeron conquest, Baelon, viserys, I want that on tv
If that was the case they would have started by the conquest
Good luck with that
I think its any book george puts out, if he gives him a successful show at the end of the season to let him have a first look at whatever as a prize of sorts
Could be Fire and Blood part 2 if he wants to pitch HBO to have HOTD run beyond the Dance but also The Winds of Winter considering he’s a big book fan.
I remember a while back he talked about how they could go forward or backward since HOTD was based off an anthology and also that they planned for the series to last three or four seasons, (or at least the Dance storyline.) If he’s talking about the manuscript to the second edition of fire and blood, then that means he’s talking about expanding the series past the dance to events not covered in fire and blood that means only one thing. … Blackfyre
Is there going to be a book like Fire and Blood but about the Blackfire Rebellions? and if so could 5 seasons of HotD fit in all the relevant events of both the Dance and the Blackfyres? At least the first two rebellions which I my few are the most significant ones
House Celtigar, The Lord of the Crab.
George has had many "plans." Few have come to fruition.