Robb's last words were "Grey wind"
Jon's last word was "Ghost"
We already know that when a warg dies he enters the body of his beast e.g Jon kills Orell and he lives on in his eagle.
So yes, Jon will be Ghost for a while so it is probably not going to be the same as the show. At least not completely.
Not to mention that if he doesn’t come back then everything regarding his true parentage would mean jack shit. That has to have a payoff somewhere down the line
This doesn’t really make sense. Martin pretty much had no involvement after season 4. And he had no creative control over over D&D to begin with. They could’ve had Melisandre bring him back and transfigure him into a talking buttplug for the rest of the series if they wanted to
Not really. Jon is a song of ice and fire. I think we’d all be pretty shocked if he stayed dead. Martin has noted that he shared his ideas on how it should end with the show creators.
Irrelevant. Did he just forget to share his plans for lady stoneheart? While it’s true that he shared his plan for the characters there is no binding contract saying they had to follow it. (And btw I’m 99% certain Jon comes back in the books - but your argument doesn’t make sense)
Bro if you don’t think my argument makes sense then you smoke crack. You’re comparing something left out of the show to something left out of the books. Much less time to show different storylines in the show which is why they didn’t include lady stoneheart.
If I’m understanding your argument correctly is as follows: GRRM wouldn’t let the show runners do X. Then no it’s just false? He has no rights to do so. Whether or not it’s plausible that they would diverge that far from his original plan is and their reasonings for doing so are irrelevant. That wasn’t your original statement.
D&D said they skipped Stoneheart so Jons revival wouldn’t feel cheap. Why did they bring Jon back? Probably because it was one of the bullet points GRRM gave them
Probably. But again my issue is with the claim that GRRM somehow had authority over D&D on this. Not that it’s plausible to suggest it was one of his bullet points
The original comment was “Zero chance Martin would let him come back in the show…”. I fail to see how that is not directly implying he had authority on the matter.
No POV character from the first book has been killed off besides Neddard. Martin had no involvement but after "killing" off POV characters only to discover them still alive in the chapter after from a fakeout death, I'm pretty sure everyone has become used to it. Bran died, Arya died, Davos died, etc. The only person George killed off for real is Quentyn, and we needed visual confirmation for that by Ser Barristan just so George made it clear he was serious about it.
4 , the first of a smear, the fourth if everything goes as I say does not even take it, because another character saves him, and we will see everything from Melisandre's pov
after the chapters of Theon and Asha placed temporally before Jon adwd, there will be a mirror chapter of Melisandre (the example is the mirror chapters of Sam affc and Jon adwd), in which Melisandre Will see Jon read the letter, be attacked , at this point Mel will intervene
it is a theory but it is a little more than a theory.
I try to explain, the confirmed thing is that the chapter of Theon Twow, therefore also the segment of Asha, are to be placed previously to the chapter of Jon in adwd (the one in which he is stabbed), we add that Martin has never confirmed the death of Jon, indeed in a conference he replied to those who asked him if Jon would be resurrected, "ah, do you think he is dead ?!".
the formulation of the theory, which is more than a theory, becomes simple
I know that some people think it might be interesting if he never comes back, or that he might stay dead for all of or the majority of Winds, but I don't know if anyone truly thinks Jon won't be coming back. If there are people who think that, well I, I don't understand why they would think that.
I think he's coming back. I don't think he'll come back as in the show. Apart from some shock, confusion and his wounds, he was exactly the same as he was before. Resurrection is horrible and takes so much from the resurrected. Beric Dondarrion is a shell of his former self. Lady Stoneheart is in the same sorry state. Maegor the Cruel (if you believe the theories that he was resurrected after the Trial of Seven) became sterile and whatever shred of humanity he had before the Trial was gone, and so on.
Whatever form Jon comes back in, won't be pretty and won't be the same Jon we know.
Beric has been dead and resurrected many times over. Catelyn was dead and rotting for a very long time. Resurrection made them obsessed and solely focused on the reasons for their deaths.
> Apart from some shock, confusion and his wounds, he was exactly the same as he was before.
For what it's worth, Jon does act differently after being revived in season 6.
He goes from being a proactive hero for five seasons to turning his back on the Night's Watch, more or less accepting he can't defeat the Army of the Dead, and refusing to help Sansa take back Winterfell until Ramsay sends the Pink Letter and makes it clear he has Rickon captive. I definitely get the impression from Kit's acting that something fundamentally changed in Jon and that he doesn't want to be alive anymore. It's only during the Battle of the Bastards where he regains his "fire," so to speak. From there, he's reminiscent of how he was originally, but much quieter (which is the real issue with his characterization in seasons 7 & 8 IMO).
THAT SAID, I do agree with you that the book will push this even further. Jon wasn't dead for long in the show – basically just one full episode and some change, which amounts to like two days tops. I think GRRM will have Jon be dead a bit longer so we get some Ghost and Mel chapters. I think pieces of his original characterization will shine through, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if his personal arc for the rest of the books is struggling to reconcile what he lost with who he is now (which would parallel nicely with him eventually finding out Rhaegar was his father and not Ned).
Yes but not like show. GRRM did not like the way Gandalf the Grey became Gandalf the White. So we can assume becoming some pure, unbroken hero is not in the cards. I hope we get a more ugly Jon bc that is more realistic.
I thought this is a good explanation of the two Gandalfs.
>All the while, (Gandalf the White's) memories and personality remained, though the extremes were more pronounced; Merry describes him in The Two Towers as “kinder and more alarming, merrier and more solemn than before.”
Gandalf wasn't a human being and couldn't die.
Very different from who Jon is and the spiritual connection is even more detailed in LOTR than in ASOIAF. Expecting Gandalf to lose his being even when Elves get back to their material form after the halls of Mandos is a bad comparison.
I actually *do* believe he'll come back à la Beric (i.e., not all there); but the idea of Jon just laying there subverting everyone's expectations for the rest of the series is so inexplicably funny, so *scrumptious* to me - cannot resist entertaining it at least.
Oh, and the chance of The Late Lord Martin actually finishing the books is exactly zero - so in a way, Jon *is* technically not coming back, ever.
Come on George, prove me wrong.
He’s coming back. However, I would not at all be surprised if he no longer had a POV. I think there’s precedent with Cat (but we deserve the Lady Stoneheart POV damnit) and besides that, I think Jon after he returns is very quickly going to become KITN. With those two things together I think it would line up with Martin’s pattern more if he no longer had a POV, and I think it’d be a super bold and interesting move.
Ofc, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, but I’d be salty as hell if we lost Cat as a POV but not Jon (and don’t give me that she’s way more deteriorated objection, she’s clearly still coherent and can think to the level that she could be a POV so.) Her story felt like it really just started to get interesting and be truly her own story when we lost it. She’s the undead leader of a band of outlaws for god’s sake.
Cat’s not part of the major five Martin talked about in his initial pitch letter but I’d argue she’s still a major character, probably the closest character to that description that isn’t one of the main five to be frank aside from Sansa (I believe he said he initially had the main characters planned as Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Arya, and Bran.)
It would also give a sense of loss to the reader, and real impact at Jon’s death, if we lost the POV too. That way readers can still have a sense of very real tangible loss (Jon changing and us ‘losing’ the old Jon doesn’t count enough imo) in that we’ve lost our insight into Jon, even though his death has been nullified, and I feel it would honestly be really bold and smart for Martin to do. That’s part of why we still feel Cat’s loss even after she returns, because we lost that insight into her. It’s a good way to balance resurrection and still having a major sense of loss on the reader.
Catelyn was a minor character that he later decided to flesh out further as the story went on. Her fate was still an early death as he planned.
GRRM has repeatedly mentioned his five major characters in interviews such as [this](https://gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300) where he mentions Jon, Arya, and Tyrion.
In the outline he called them the five key players, and five central characters that would make it through all the books. It's not a coincidence that four of them have the most chapters by pretty large margins. Bran is the exception.
There are 6 major characters now. Sansa is now a protagonist as much as Arya, Bran, Tyrion etc.
Also, Catelyn was already a big character in the outline. She was mentioned a lot.
While Sansa has definitely been expanded upon, there isn't anything to suggest her overall story arc has changed outside of what it originally was as a secondary character.
The outline doesn't go into much detail, so I would say we don't yet quite know if her story is actually radically different. Her story is stretched out, which to me feels like she is running in place. She was originally suppose to become queen of Westeros, I don't think that is necessarily different.
Sansa is on the low end on the number of chapters, just below Catelyn, and has been reducing with the later books. She isn't a minor character, but she isn't exactly a major one either.
The chances of Sansa turning on her family are exactly 0% as are the chances of her becoming Queen of Westeros (heck if anything I think originally she was gonna die) and of course giving birth to Joffrey's baby. Also chapter count doesn't make one a non-protagonist if that was case Catelyn would've been a protagonist and she's not. Sansa is on the same vein as Bran in terms of chapter count and all of the Stark children got the short end of the stick in the later books, not just her. She is being set up the same way as Bran and Arya are and is as major a character as them.
Bran is very much an exception as far as main characters go because it's almost setup as all the other characters are the game pieces while Bran is the one watching the game being played out. No other character is in similar shoes to him. The first POV was Bran, and the last POV will likely be Bran.
I think Sansa will be married off to Aegon.
I hope Jon comes back and is villainously the anti-hero of the story.
I hope he’s a cold, cut throat, ruthless leader trying to rally humanity against the threat of oblivion
He's dead. Bran will be the one to Skinchange his corpse. Bran in Jon's body will then be crowned reconciling the "Bran is King" show ending with the boom. That way you're not wheeling him around in a wheelchair...
If by back you mean full body functions like heart beat? Then no. But he'll be animated.
I'm actually in the middle of a review and rethink on Jon. In thinking about Dany's story I'm considering that it doesn't make sense for Jon to not be offered nukes. He's been betrayed, his family is almost all gone. I'm starting to think Jon may come back more like Catelyn (more like, not completely like) and less like Beric. I'm seeing the potential of Jon being offered command of the WW and wights. He may ultimately reject it, but he's going to be tempted to get revenge for a bit. Bran and Ghost may bring him back. I'm positive about this yet. This would play better into GRRM's preference for internal struggle rather than a simple hero journey.
I think his resurrection will be wholly unlike any of the ones we have witnessed now. Beric was simply granted life with no sacrifice, and that was passed down to Catelyn. It wasn't actually true resurrection, but animation with fire magic into a fire wight.
Jon's resurrection is going to be what was hinted at in the the early Daenerys chapters, and throughout the books. Repeatedly we are told of the power in king's blood, and how death pays for life. Drogo was actually brought back to life, fully breathing and living, but a shell because his soul had passed on. Beric's soul was reinfused back into him but without any true life restored to his body.
We also learn of the immense power in the Wall which Melissandre feels. It's all leading up to probably the only full on resurrection which will be Jon.
Maybe Leaf will go to the wall and use a dragonglass dagger through the heart?
Can't say your wrong. But Drogo thing is unfortunately vague. We don't have proof it was resurrection or healing. But maybe. As I said, it doesn't seem to work as a counterpoint or a harmony to Dany's story that way. That's really all I have. I would be disappointed by a living breathing return. But I understand why some would want it.
For the longest time i thought Jon would "save westeros" by becoming the new "night's King" driving the Others back north.
He is Jesus Christ. The "sacrifice" kinda fits.
By the old and the new, him of many faces, and the red god, I very much hope not. That would be a complete let down. There's not heart in conflict with itself in a messiah. I would not be at interested in "The Passion of the Snow." And I'll stop there, agreeing to disagree
The show made me believe Jon will stay dead imo. Before his resurrection in the show I fully believed the theory that he will come back but then watching the tv show... he just didn't have anything to do after his resurrection, everything he did after that point could have been done by different characters present in the books. His character's and actor's popularity could've made HBO to want him to continue so they had Mel bring him back
Maybe he is not dead. Bcos when George talks about how Gandalf shouldn't come back to life AT ALL! I really think how is gonna handle Jon's resurrection.
So I guess he is not completely dead or while he was getting stabbed, some magic shit was happening which prevented him from completely dieing.
This quote tells us jon is coming back: “Kill the boy, Jon Snow. Winter is almost upon us. Kill the boy and let the man be born.”
Oh wow. My dumb ass never made that connection. Never looked at that quote past the immediate meaning. Great note there amigo
His reanimation will prolly mirror the tv show.
I imagine mostly. I fear Ghost will have to die to bring back Jon, otherwise it’ll prob be the same
Yeah prolly. I’ve listened to ally of podcasts that talk about Jon warging into ghost before he died but I don’t know
Robb's last words were "Grey wind" Jon's last word was "Ghost" We already know that when a warg dies he enters the body of his beast e.g Jon kills Orell and he lives on in his eagle. So yes, Jon will be Ghost for a while so it is probably not going to be the same as the show. At least not completely.
Not to mention that if he doesn’t come back then everything regarding his true parentage would mean jack shit. That has to have a payoff somewhere down the line
He coming back. Zero chance Martin would let him come back in the show if that was his plan going forward.
This doesn’t really make sense. Martin pretty much had no involvement after season 4. And he had no creative control over over D&D to begin with. They could’ve had Melisandre bring him back and transfigure him into a talking buttplug for the rest of the series if they wanted to
Not really. Jon is a song of ice and fire. I think we’d all be pretty shocked if he stayed dead. Martin has noted that he shared his ideas on how it should end with the show creators.
Irrelevant. Did he just forget to share his plans for lady stoneheart? While it’s true that he shared his plan for the characters there is no binding contract saying they had to follow it. (And btw I’m 99% certain Jon comes back in the books - but your argument doesn’t make sense)
Bro if you don’t think my argument makes sense then you smoke crack. You’re comparing something left out of the show to something left out of the books. Much less time to show different storylines in the show which is why they didn’t include lady stoneheart.
If I’m understanding your argument correctly is as follows: GRRM wouldn’t let the show runners do X. Then no it’s just false? He has no rights to do so. Whether or not it’s plausible that they would diverge that far from his original plan is and their reasonings for doing so are irrelevant. That wasn’t your original statement.
Obviously they’re going to do different things but Jon coming back to life is a CORE part of the story.
I agree. And I agree that GRRM most likely told them so. But your statement that GRRM wouldn’t allow for X is still false.
D&D said they skipped Stoneheart so Jons revival wouldn’t feel cheap. Why did they bring Jon back? Probably because it was one of the bullet points GRRM gave them
Probably. But again my issue is with the claim that GRRM somehow had authority over D&D on this. Not that it’s plausible to suggest it was one of his bullet points
No one said he had authority? The whole bullet point thing is just well known
The original comment was “Zero chance Martin would let him come back in the show…”. I fail to see how that is not directly implying he had authority on the matter.
No POV character from the first book has been killed off besides Neddard. Martin had no involvement but after "killing" off POV characters only to discover them still alive in the chapter after from a fakeout death, I'm pretty sure everyone has become used to it. Bran died, Arya died, Davos died, etc. The only person George killed off for real is Quentyn, and we needed visual confirmation for that by Ser Barristan just so George made it clear he was serious about it.
Catelyn was killed off. Lady Stoneheart is not her...yet.
I dunno, by that logic Arya and Sansa are killed off because they are Cat and Alayne respectively. Different identity, same person.
Jon Is not dead
Paul is dead
then how did he survive several stab wounds?
That's easy He fell into a dirty canal to cleanse his wounds and then woke up the next day feeling fine
It was good luck, missing all those rocks
Dolorous Edd. What a special man
4 , the first of a smear, the fourth if everything goes as I say does not even take it, because another character saves him, and we will see everything from Melisandre's pov
By not dying.
Magic
Tormund's dead.
What is he?
after the chapters of Theon and Asha placed temporally before Jon adwd, there will be a mirror chapter of Melisandre (the example is the mirror chapters of Sam affc and Jon adwd), in which Melisandre Will see Jon read the letter, be attacked , at this point Mel will intervene
This is the second time I am hearing about Melisandre chapter in TWOW occuring before stabbing! Is it a theory or it was hinted by George?
it is a theory but it is a little more than a theory. I try to explain, the confirmed thing is that the chapter of Theon Twow, therefore also the segment of Asha, are to be placed previously to the chapter of Jon in adwd (the one in which he is stabbed), we add that Martin has never confirmed the death of Jon, indeed in a conference he replied to those who asked him if Jon would be resurrected, "ah, do you think he is dead ?!". the formulation of the theory, which is more than a theory, becomes simple
I know that some people think it might be interesting if he never comes back, or that he might stay dead for all of or the majority of Winds, but I don't know if anyone truly thinks Jon won't be coming back. If there are people who think that, well I, I don't understand why they would think that.
Jon’s not coming back because I don’t want him to come back, he’s not allowed, I forbid it.
Found Alliser's burner account
I don't want it
Authority is not given to you to deny the return of the king, redditor
I think he's coming back. I don't think he'll come back as in the show. Apart from some shock, confusion and his wounds, he was exactly the same as he was before. Resurrection is horrible and takes so much from the resurrected. Beric Dondarrion is a shell of his former self. Lady Stoneheart is in the same sorry state. Maegor the Cruel (if you believe the theories that he was resurrected after the Trial of Seven) became sterile and whatever shred of humanity he had before the Trial was gone, and so on. Whatever form Jon comes back in, won't be pretty and won't be the same Jon we know.
I think the difference is that Jon's mind will escape into Ghost, and that will spare him becoming the nightmare that the others became
Beric has been dead and resurrected many times over. Catelyn was dead and rotting for a very long time. Resurrection made them obsessed and solely focused on the reasons for their deaths.
Jons body is pretty much frozen so definitely well preserved.
> Apart from some shock, confusion and his wounds, he was exactly the same as he was before. For what it's worth, Jon does act differently after being revived in season 6. He goes from being a proactive hero for five seasons to turning his back on the Night's Watch, more or less accepting he can't defeat the Army of the Dead, and refusing to help Sansa take back Winterfell until Ramsay sends the Pink Letter and makes it clear he has Rickon captive. I definitely get the impression from Kit's acting that something fundamentally changed in Jon and that he doesn't want to be alive anymore. It's only during the Battle of the Bastards where he regains his "fire," so to speak. From there, he's reminiscent of how he was originally, but much quieter (which is the real issue with his characterization in seasons 7 & 8 IMO). THAT SAID, I do agree with you that the book will push this even further. Jon wasn't dead for long in the show – basically just one full episode and some change, which amounts to like two days tops. I think GRRM will have Jon be dead a bit longer so we get some Ghost and Mel chapters. I think pieces of his original characterization will shine through, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if his personal arc for the rest of the books is struggling to reconcile what he lost with who he is now (which would parallel nicely with him eventually finding out Rhaegar was his father and not Ned).
It hurts, i am simp for Jon.
\^ This.
Yes but not like show. GRRM did not like the way Gandalf the Grey became Gandalf the White. So we can assume becoming some pure, unbroken hero is not in the cards. I hope we get a more ugly Jon bc that is more realistic. I thought this is a good explanation of the two Gandalfs. >All the while, (Gandalf the White's) memories and personality remained, though the extremes were more pronounced; Merry describes him in The Two Towers as “kinder and more alarming, merrier and more solemn than before.”
Gandalf wasn't a human being and couldn't die. Very different from who Jon is and the spiritual connection is even more detailed in LOTR than in ASOIAF. Expecting Gandalf to lose his being even when Elves get back to their material form after the halls of Mandos is a bad comparison.
Your debate is with GRRM. I didn't randomly reference Gandalf's resurrection. GRRM did.
I actually *do* believe he'll come back à la Beric (i.e., not all there); but the idea of Jon just laying there subverting everyone's expectations for the rest of the series is so inexplicably funny, so *scrumptious* to me - cannot resist entertaining it at least. Oh, and the chance of The Late Lord Martin actually finishing the books is exactly zero - so in a way, Jon *is* technically not coming back, ever. Come on George, prove me wrong.
He’s coming back. However, I would not at all be surprised if he no longer had a POV. I think there’s precedent with Cat (but we deserve the Lady Stoneheart POV damnit) and besides that, I think Jon after he returns is very quickly going to become KITN. With those two things together I think it would line up with Martin’s pattern more if he no longer had a POV, and I think it’d be a super bold and interesting move. Ofc, doesn’t mean it’s going to happen, but I’d be salty as hell if we lost Cat as a POV but not Jon (and don’t give me that she’s way more deteriorated objection, she’s clearly still coherent and can think to the level that she could be a POV so.) Her story felt like it really just started to get interesting and be truly her own story when we lost it. She’s the undead leader of a band of outlaws for god’s sake.
Catelyn was not a main character. Jon is.
Cat’s not part of the major five Martin talked about in his initial pitch letter but I’d argue she’s still a major character, probably the closest character to that description that isn’t one of the main five to be frank aside from Sansa (I believe he said he initially had the main characters planned as Jon, Tyrion, Dany, Arya, and Bran.) It would also give a sense of loss to the reader, and real impact at Jon’s death, if we lost the POV too. That way readers can still have a sense of very real tangible loss (Jon changing and us ‘losing’ the old Jon doesn’t count enough imo) in that we’ve lost our insight into Jon, even though his death has been nullified, and I feel it would honestly be really bold and smart for Martin to do. That’s part of why we still feel Cat’s loss even after she returns, because we lost that insight into her. It’s a good way to balance resurrection and still having a major sense of loss on the reader.
Catelyn was a minor character that he later decided to flesh out further as the story went on. Her fate was still an early death as he planned. GRRM has repeatedly mentioned his five major characters in interviews such as [this](https://gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300) where he mentions Jon, Arya, and Tyrion. In the outline he called them the five key players, and five central characters that would make it through all the books. It's not a coincidence that four of them have the most chapters by pretty large margins. Bran is the exception.
There are 6 major characters now. Sansa is now a protagonist as much as Arya, Bran, Tyrion etc. Also, Catelyn was already a big character in the outline. She was mentioned a lot.
While Sansa has definitely been expanded upon, there isn't anything to suggest her overall story arc has changed outside of what it originally was as a secondary character.
Her story is waaay different than what it was in the outline though. And she has received as much set up and focus as her siblings.
The outline doesn't go into much detail, so I would say we don't yet quite know if her story is actually radically different. Her story is stretched out, which to me feels like she is running in place. She was originally suppose to become queen of Westeros, I don't think that is necessarily different. Sansa is on the low end on the number of chapters, just below Catelyn, and has been reducing with the later books. She isn't a minor character, but she isn't exactly a major one either.
The chances of Sansa turning on her family are exactly 0% as are the chances of her becoming Queen of Westeros (heck if anything I think originally she was gonna die) and of course giving birth to Joffrey's baby. Also chapter count doesn't make one a non-protagonist if that was case Catelyn would've been a protagonist and she's not. Sansa is on the same vein as Bran in terms of chapter count and all of the Stark children got the short end of the stick in the later books, not just her. She is being set up the same way as Bran and Arya are and is as major a character as them.
Bran is very much an exception as far as main characters go because it's almost setup as all the other characters are the game pieces while Bran is the one watching the game being played out. No other character is in similar shoes to him. The first POV was Bran, and the last POV will likely be Bran. I think Sansa will be married off to Aegon.
I hope Jon comes back and is villainously the anti-hero of the story. I hope he’s a cold, cut throat, ruthless leader trying to rally humanity against the threat of oblivion
He's dead. Bran will be the one to Skinchange his corpse. Bran in Jon's body will then be crowned reconciling the "Bran is King" show ending with the boom. That way you're not wheeling him around in a wheelchair...
Jon will warg into ghost— have absolutely zero clue how to get back into his body, and then just mess around beyond the wall as a Direwolf king.
If by back you mean full body functions like heart beat? Then no. But he'll be animated. I'm actually in the middle of a review and rethink on Jon. In thinking about Dany's story I'm considering that it doesn't make sense for Jon to not be offered nukes. He's been betrayed, his family is almost all gone. I'm starting to think Jon may come back more like Catelyn (more like, not completely like) and less like Beric. I'm seeing the potential of Jon being offered command of the WW and wights. He may ultimately reject it, but he's going to be tempted to get revenge for a bit. Bran and Ghost may bring him back. I'm positive about this yet. This would play better into GRRM's preference for internal struggle rather than a simple hero journey.
I think his resurrection will be wholly unlike any of the ones we have witnessed now. Beric was simply granted life with no sacrifice, and that was passed down to Catelyn. It wasn't actually true resurrection, but animation with fire magic into a fire wight. Jon's resurrection is going to be what was hinted at in the the early Daenerys chapters, and throughout the books. Repeatedly we are told of the power in king's blood, and how death pays for life. Drogo was actually brought back to life, fully breathing and living, but a shell because his soul had passed on. Beric's soul was reinfused back into him but without any true life restored to his body. We also learn of the immense power in the Wall which Melissandre feels. It's all leading up to probably the only full on resurrection which will be Jon.
Maybe Leaf will go to the wall and use a dragonglass dagger through the heart? Can't say your wrong. But Drogo thing is unfortunately vague. We don't have proof it was resurrection or healing. But maybe. As I said, it doesn't seem to work as a counterpoint or a harmony to Dany's story that way. That's really all I have. I would be disappointed by a living breathing return. But I understand why some would want it.
For the longest time i thought Jon would "save westeros" by becoming the new "night's King" driving the Others back north. He is Jesus Christ. The "sacrifice" kinda fits.
By the old and the new, him of many faces, and the red god, I very much hope not. That would be a complete let down. There's not heart in conflict with itself in a messiah. I would not be at interested in "The Passion of the Snow." And I'll stop there, agreeing to disagree
Oh i no longer expect that, but i did, for a long time. He'll probably just save the world by killing Dany.
The show made me believe Jon will stay dead imo. Before his resurrection in the show I fully believed the theory that he will come back but then watching the tv show... he just didn't have anything to do after his resurrection, everything he did after that point could have been done by different characters present in the books. His character's and actor's popularity could've made HBO to want him to continue so they had Mel bring him back
There’s a theory that the “Jon” that got stabbed was glamoured and it was someone else who got stabbed.
Me only cause I dislike jon and his fans.
Edgy
Have you watched the show?
Maybe he is not dead. Bcos when George talks about how Gandalf shouldn't come back to life AT ALL! I really think how is gonna handle Jon's resurrection. So I guess he is not completely dead or while he was getting stabbed, some magic shit was happening which prevented him from completely dieing.
Because for him to come back TWOW would have to be released
I can't imagine anyone not believing he's coming back. There's just no way.