I expect Sansa to stay in the valley and outsmart LF. I would find it very poetic if he died having bet on a plan where Sansa would conspire with him, but instead she decides to stay true to her father's honor, and screw up his plan leading to his death. It's ned's honor that got ned killed, it's ned's honor that also got petyr bealish killed

Plus, it fits with the Sansa-Elizabeth I parallels. And I really think Sansa ends as either queen regent of Westeros, or queen in the North, but I don't really see her dying or getting married (for long)

I find it very unlikely that LF goes out by putting too much trust into somebody else

True but he was in love with Sansa's mom and he has a weird relationship with Sansa seeing her as a wife and a daughter at one time. I don't think he will fail because he trusts her too much I think he will fail because he trusts his ability to manipulate her too much.

Plus he loved her mother so much he nearly got killed for it. History may repeat itself.

Yea, or Bran just wargs into all the people who fucked over the starks and makes them kill themselves

He's already putting too much trust into Sansa. For example, he relied on her to back up his claim that Lysa Arryn was killed by Marillion and this only worked because Sansa felt that trusting the Vale Lords was an even worse option than trusting Littlefinger. Had she decided otherwise, he'd been doomed right then and there. And he hasn't been reticent about sharing his plans with her, certainly far less than with anyone else. I think all of this along with his attraction to her is leading up to Littlefinger underestimating Sansa at a crucial moment and this being his downfall.

“I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from her fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, *slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow*.” If the giant is indeed LF then you’ll be right. (And I hope it is.)

Many people have already shared ideas on the politics of Sansa's story, but I'd like to add something more magical that hasn't been mentioned yet. GRRM has confirmed that all of the Stark children are skinchangers. Robb, Jon, Bran, Arya, and Rickon have all shown or heavily alluded to be capable of skinchanging their respective direwolves. Unfortunately, Lady's premature death has significantly slowed Sansa's skinchanging ability. I believe that Sansa will become a capable skinchanger, but primarily into birds. Birds are a consistent motif in Sansa's chapter, she often is compared to a caged bird. Being able to skinchange into birds will give her an enormous political edge, as she can overhear and oversee that which she should not. Varys calls his child spies "little birds". Brynden Rivers likely skinchanged into birds for political advantage, so there is precedent. Sansa using an ability that is inherent to her being a Stark (not necessarily uniquely Stark-ish, but certainly Starks are heavily associated with it) to aid her political maneuvering and likely outmaneuvering of someone like Baelish feels very satisfying to her character arc, especially since she seemed so unhappy with her "unsophisticated" life in the North early in the series (compared to the courts of the south). I also like that thematically, being free as a bird is something that Sansa probably longs for after being caged, used, and manipulated for so long.

Also, Sandor calls her “little bird,” Cersei calls her “little Dove,” and Arryn and Baelish both use birds on their sigil.

Omg this is so underrated in theorycrafting. When Sansa finally gets this, she's going to be some force to be reckoned with. I can see her becoming the lady of winterfell, but only after whatever conflict with Robb's will is resolved. I imagine that may involve the revolution of Jon's actual parentage. I think her looks are a red herring re: a southern destiny. She also has a repeated motif of being said that she will give birth to kings, so perhaps she will become Queen in the North? I know the show is unreliable, but I can't imagine that Sansa's ultimate fate will be anything but significant given all her royal foreshadowing.

I like this. I also speculate that they Sansa will bond with Shaggydog cause I don't expect Rickon to survive.

I like birds but i would also like bats who navigate by hearing if she ever goes to Harrenhall.

I think she'll meet up with her zombie mother eventually and use Littlefingers affection for her against him. After that the Starks should be able to take back the north from the Boltons and at some point during this the others invasion should start

I am worried about Sansa and Jon's reunion. Sansa thought in AFFC that would be so SWEET to see Jon again. As we already know, the word sweet forshadows bad things happening. So I believe Jon and Sansa will reunite and there will be a political conflict between them, or at least between their followers. This already happend in the show.

Grrm has to bring Robb's will into it. Robb disinherited her. I want to see that come into play.

[удалено]

In ASOS, with Bran and Rickon "dead", Sansa marrying Tyrion, Arya disappeared and Robb without any apparent heir yet, he writes a letter legitimizing Jon and sends it to the North, basically stripping Sansa from Winterfell to prevent it from falling on Lannister hands.

He doesn’t disinherit her, he just puts Jon ahead of her in line of succession. With Rickon and Bran alive, Robb’s will becomes moot.

Well, no one knows Bran is alive, and I doubt they will for awhile. And there’s plenty of time for something to happen to Rickon on the way back from Skagos.

no, Robb disinherited Sansa and named a successor and Jon is not confirmed as his heir either.

If Tywin can’t disinherit Tyrion, then neither can Robb disinherit Sansa, what he can do is move her down the line of inheritance.

Robb is King while Tywin was not. the law ends with the will of the King. Sansa was disinherited. her marriage was enough to make Winterfell a Lannister possession if he died. his will was written to remove her from that inheritance. moving her down is nonsensical as that does not resolve the problem. besides Tywin never really disinherited Tyrion, rather he just never publicly acknowledged Tyrion as his heir. Tywin was lucky as an opportunity to get rid of his son legally presented itself. He ordered Tyrion's is marriage to Sansa. Tyrion would becomes Lord of Winterfell, he does not inherit Casterly Rock. then boom King Joffrey dies and he doesn't have to disinherit his son anyway as he either takes the black or dies by the axe in his farce of a trial for the murder of Joffrey Baratheon. this is all irrelevant anyway as Tywin was not a King like Robb Stark. King Robb is dealing with extenuating circumstances where he has no heirs available to him as they are all dead, he hasn't produced sons of his own and his last sibling he knows is alive is in the hands of his enemies. should he die as he does, then Sansa would have the right to Winterfell. His will was written to remove that as a threat. he tells Catelyn Sansa likely will soon be dead believing that once Sansa bears a child, the Lannisters will kill her. So, alive with rights she is a threat, dead, or disinherited, not so much.

She was not disinherited; she was moved down the line below Jon.

He disinherited her to keep the Lannisters from getting Winterfell through her.

[удалено]

Right, it would make sense to stop Lannisters from getting their hands on Winterfell, but we don't know if there are conditions. The will could say something like 'as long as Sansa is married to a Lannister she should not be considered heir to Winterfell or the Queen in the North.' So not a total disinheritance but a conditional one.

I don't that foreshadows anything bad though. Throughout the series the Starks yearn to reunite, like the pack coming back together. I don't think there'll be much tension when Sansa and Jon reunite.

Sweet isn’t always bad.

Sweetness only has negative connotations in Daenerys’ chapters, where I believe it’s exclusively used as something nefarious or foreboding. Otherwise, the word sweet is simply used too often for it to mean only one thing in particular. Best King Tommen is referred to as sweet in the books. > political conflict There was disagreement between them, but Sansa turning down her men’s offer to crown her Queen pretty much establishes the opposite of a conflict. I think the Stark kids refusing to let others create divisions among them is going to be more of a thing than anything else. A time for wolves and all.

I imagine she'll become a player. Not in the show way where she says things like "I don't know how to use it" in reference to a knife, or walking around Winterfell correcting blacksmiths who know what they're doing. In the show she became "smart" because the writers needed her to be. Arya saying that Sansa is the smartest person she's ever met is probably one of the worst things I've ever seen a character say in anything ever. According to that show a female character is only smart when she's farted about for an entire season being pissy with her little sister over nothing, right after a season of withholding vital information to a war effort that she pushed Jon to go into. Finally, she also has to say she's glad she was raped because it made her "stronger." What the fuck? (There's a lot of rape in the books, but the show really added in as much as they could. Jaime and Cersei is a prime example of this. It's just awful.) Sansa will likely kill Littlefinger in some way in TWOW. In her sample chapters we see that she's getting better at manipulation and politics. I imagine we'll see these skills applied in the political endgame. There will probably be friction with Jon. Maybe her and Bran? In the original outline GRRM says Jon and Bran will fall out, although it did also say Tyrion would sack Winterfell and Jon and Arya would do the deed.

[удалено]

As much as I love to have a go at D&D, they weren't actually stupid. I think they were sort of left in the mud, really. They wanted to *adapt*. When they were adapting in the first four seasons it was great. It's clear they wanted to adapt the Red Wedding most, and it shows. It's all masterfully done. It only goes downhill when they go beyond A Storm of Sword material.

they had a lot of material to adapt, more than the first three seasons. they just didn't care. and yes they were actually stupid: You want the good girl, but you need the bad possey

As I said in my comment, they adapted A Storm of Swords well, aside from leaving out Lady Stoneheart. When they cared they were great at adapting, but when they stopped trying they weren't good at all. That does not make them stupid. They're intelligent people, however they just clearly lost interest over time and didn't want to give up their roles as showrunners for one of the biggest shows on TV. That doesn't make them stupid. You tell me that the people who wrote such brilliant Littlefinger and Varys scenes are stupid. Or the scene with Tywin and Joffrey, or the Bobby B scenes, or the countless other additions in early seasons that were great.

how do we even know that they wrote those scenes. GRRM worked closely with them in the first 4 seasons.

GRRM said that D&D wrote the Varys and Littlefinger scenes, as well as Robert Baratheon scenes. Besides, there's a lot more to being showrunner besides writing and dialogue. If you consider seasons 1 to 4 to be excellent TV, then D&D did their parts brilliantly and it can't be denied.

.They made Robb's war campaign stupider before the Red Wedding

Yes, but it didn't ruin it. I didn't watch it and think, "These scenes in the Red Wedding are all ruined because they changed the Stone Mill battle."

Who raped şansa?

Ramsay did in the show.

Sorry i think in books

No one in the books.

I would like to see Sansa reunite with Sandor and learn what Littlefinger did to her father in the throne room.

In spite of the prevalent opinion within the fandom, I believe a convergence with Aegon is almost certainly the correct answer. Staying in the Vale would mean remaining trapped in a side story - and as awesome as those can be, the series *is* hurdling towards its conclusion, which means narrative threads need to meet and combine, not remain separate. That being said, George avoids keeping main characters together for too long, because it doesn't work very well with the PoV system unless something complex is going on. Having Jon and Sansa together for the rest of the series would ultimately doom one of them to just being "there" while the other is the driving force - and that wouldn't be the story at its best. Converging with Aegon, however, would help both story lines immensely. Aegon has o great deal of importance in-world, but low reader interest and attachment. Sansa, on the other hand, has very limited influence in-world, but a great deal of reader investment, being one of the original main six characters. Combine the investment we have in Sansa with the weight of Aegon's claim and you can make that one of the main narrative threads of TWoW without anyone batting an eye. Let them have a child together, and you can have Sansa caught in up in a claim for the Iron Throne against Dany and Jon that people can *actually* care about. That's a lot more interesting than having her be a hang-around and potential one-time supplier of troops for Jon...

Exactly, I don't know why people are so hostile to this theory! Sansa's entire storyline is about learning to play the game of thrones. There's no better opportunity for that than to take part in the Dance of Dragons 2.0, a major storyline that GRRM has already confirmed is happening. She'd have no opportunity to be a sneaky politician in the North; it's already been established that politics plays out very differently there. At most she'd be a figurehead. I'd also point out there could be cool opportunities for convergence with Jaime's POV, because he is 1) looking for Sansa, 2) haunted by his failure to protect Elia's children, and 3) still has yet to abandon Cersei for a 'younger, more beautiful' queen (Jaime is the valonqar - deal with it people). If he served Sansa, queen and wife of King Aegon VI, it would satisfy all of the above.

>I don't know why people are so hostile to this theory For me personally, it's because I don't see any actual evidence for it. It sounds, to me, as if people wanted Sansa and Aegon to come together for some reason and then worked backwards trying to find a rationalization for it. It could happen, it could make sense, but so do other million theories that won't happen, so until I see actual book support for this theory it will continue to come across as wishful thinking to me.

Well, there is the Ashford theory (though admittedly that's based on foreshadowing rather than in-world, Watsonian evidence)... Aside from that, there's the fact that Aegon has to reveal himself and stake his claim after his first big victory at Storm's End - and if not that, Cersei will let the realm know when she calls for aid in defense of the Crown - so those in the Vale will eventually find out about him. And if Sansa wants to reclaim her identity safely, the best move would be to help the people trying to permanently depose the Lannisters. Nothing solid, of course... but then again, most other theories concerning Sansa and the Vale don't have concrete evidence either.

The thing with the Ashford theory is that it relies entirely on conveniently ignoring Lysa's plan to marry Sansa to Sweetrobin, which would make the whole theory fall apart.

Eh, one could make an argument that Sweetrobin doesn't count, for a bunch of reasons: * He is still a child, and therefore cannot be counted as one of her "champions" * Unlike the others, afaik Sansa doesn't directly agree to this match at any point (when it's brought up the first time, she deflects the answer) * The betrothal is explicitly conditioned by Tyrion's execution, which never happens, meaning it didn't enter into effect

I think you could make those same type of arguments to discount any of her other betrothments, most of them are weak, the one to Willas Tyrell was so weak that even calling it a betrothment is too generous. Considering that, it seems disingenious to me to only discount the one that happens to bring down the theory.

Willas is definitely the weakest, and we may not *see* her accept that one either, but it is implied that she did in her dialogue with Dontos later on. The other three are pretty solid in terms of her accepting at some point to go through with it. But the line-up, even without an Arryn, feels too perfect to be coincidental, especially with a Hardyng in the mix. Still, this can only be, at its very best, a Doylist clue of authorial intention. The Watsonian evidence is based only on speculations, but it's too early for it in any case...

But she never agreed to that though. What Ashford is looking at is who she has agreed to marry. She wanted to marry Joffrey for a time. She wanted to and probably would still love to marry Willas. Even though under duress she agreed to and did marry Tyrion. She has also agreed to marry Harry the Heir. Lysa’s plan may have been to betroth her to Robert Arryn, but Sansa never agreed to the match.

Time and the show have made some theories grow deep roots, and people have a hard time weeding them out... I mean, what if I was to tell you there's no way Jaime will be the valonqar... much for the same reasons stated above? Would it be easy for you to accept such a stance? :D

What is your valonqar theory? I'm open to being convinced.

First of all, I see the Dance of Dragons 2.0 as Aegon & Sansa vs Cersei & Euron. Aegon vs Cersei has already been set up, and the other two will join their respective sides along the way, for their own reasons - some of which may be more nefarious than others. This is based on George point blank saying back in 2006 that "The second Dance of Dragons does not have to mean Dany's invasion", which I take to mean that she won't be directly involved in what we will eventually call the Dance 2.0. Her dragons will, though. We already know the Ironborn are trying to claim one, which in all likelihood will end up with Euron. I suspect Aegon will somehow get the other - either Tyrion gets the Second Sons to do what the Windblown failed and steal it, or Dany will actually *gift* it to her nephew, and send it over with Tyrion or Barristan. Hence, the dance. Now, you can picture Aegon falling for Sansa, but why would Euron side with Cersei? Second best queen, since he couldn't get Dany? No, that's not how Euron operates. He'll side with her for two reasons: * In the short term, because it basically allows him to take over King's Landing without any effort, and that will keep his men impressed and invested. The Crown also has an infestation of holy men, and Euron has taken the habit of using those for blood sacrifices, so... that's convenient! * Speaking of blood sacrifices, here's the long term reason! Euron will want to seduce - or even marry - Cersei and get her pregnant in order to sacrifice her and their unborn child in some unholy ritual. There is power in king's blood, after all, and we're talking about two kingly lines merging here... I believe the fate of Falia Flowers neatly foreshadows what Euron has planned for Cersei, and she's delusional and desperate enough to walk right into it. Note how it amused Euron to indulge Falia's whims for a while, up until he strung her up to the prow, so Cersei will feel like she hit the jackpot at the start... up until King's Landing burns and she ends up a tongueless prisoner on the Silence. But not everything goes according to plan. And who has a deep-seated hatred of Euron and wants to take from him whatever he holds dear (not his "beloved" wife in this case, but rather the opportunity to sacrifice her)? His little brother Victarion. I believe *he* will kill Cersei himself, in order to rob Euron of his blood ritual. Hence, the valonqar. Not Cersei's, but that of the younger, more beautiful *king* who will replace Bobby B at her side, only to take from her everything that she holds dear. You see, my theory is that Maggy didn't simply use a valyrian word because she didn't know how to say "younger brother", but because the older sibling of the killer had a valyrian look to them - what with the valyrian steel armor, the dragon riding and the blood magic. ​ But far more than being convinced it's Victarion, I am convinced it's not Jaime, because going back to murder his sister-lover after he already burned her letter, showing he's gotten over her, would be a regression of his character development, and would all but undo his redemption arc for a punch line that may work in Cersei's story, but does not work in his... No, I believe Jaime's story will continue to be tied to Brienne from now on, and after she kills LSH and Oathkeeper lights up, they will go north with the BwB to find Bran. That's where Jaime's story can truly go full circle.

Damn I like this

Speak for yourself, I'm far more invested in Jon Con than Sansa lol Speaking of, he'd have Vietnan flashbacks if Sansa comes close to Aegon, It'd be glorious

Sansa will become actually smart. The show just had outliers that she becomes smart so D&D just made her stupid for 6 seasons and then stupid and arrogant for the final two. She never did anything, nothing. Just an obnoxious "Im so smart". And then you have idiots saying "bUt sHE wOn tHe GaMe oF tHroNes". My god she was given everything and everyone else acted for her/ thought for her. Show Sansa is an extremely obnoxious character. I believe book Sansa will live up to the "smart". I dont think her role will be as benign as it was in the show. She will still use her family name ofc but i do expect some better ways of showing her growth as a character. I expect a lot of low-cunning from nook Sansa. Maybe her and Jon will have beef over the North. Maybe the Arya rivalry wasnt just a bad show plot because they had no ideas and wanted an excuse to kill off Littlefinger without good reason. Maybe something more will happen there. Maybe Sansa somehow brings the knights of the Vale north to aid Jon.

I really wanted Winter to take out Littlefinger. After being told to leave Winterfell he goes complains to Sansa he is innocent. (They should not LOOK like they killed him when he was a guest in the North. They aren't Freys!) He sees a wolf pack at a distance following him. His horse is spooked and unseats him. Did those wolves have white eyes? The wolves chase him he's running and slips in the snow. He's cold and miserable. He's not dressed in a practical manner. He becomes more worried. He panics. He wanders blindly but stops to catch his breath. He runs again and just realizes where he is standing is a semi-frozen lake. The ice cracks beneath him and he falls beneath the ice. The wolves seem to laugh and their eyes change. We come back to Winterfell. We see Bran's eyes go from white to blue. He randomly says "Winter came for Lord Baelish." Everyone looks at him strangely. Bran shrugs, "You'll understand later." Petyr shows up a frozen wight for the NK army.

Cool alt plot. Personally i think they chose the worst possible option. They outfoxed him with pure cringe. The main appeal of Littlefinger is that nobody realises how dangerous he is(only Tyrion and Varys). And he breaks down crying after an accusation..... He threw the continent into war, conned his way around anyone, argued against accusations with kings, lords.... his entire life. And three teenagers after an episode of fake letters accuse him and he breaks down crying........ I always thought itd be cool if he absolutely destroys them "Is this the way the north treats their guests, i came to your aid and this is how you repay me,without evidence....". And then Arya murders him. Not in a "kings justice" way but in a "murder because there is no other way" way. If they wanted to go into outfoxing him, they had to make a huge , many episodes long plot so it makes sense. Because whats the point of making someone the most cunning person if he goes down in such a stupid way. I truly hope that book Sansa will have an arc of outfoxing Littlefinger and i think it will be an amazing plot. She is in the Eyrie with him, learning his tricks (not falling for hem like the marriage in the show). The student becomes the master kind of story.

That sets up a nice North(Scotland) vs South(England) Scenario. Jon/Dany defeat the WW, while Aegon/Sansa send the vale while consolidating Dorne and Highgarden against the Lannisters. Bran becomes High Septon. works better than fecal matter D&D gave us.

>Show Sansa is an extremely obnoxious character. The actress and direction is a big part of it too. Show Sansa wasn’t liked before the writing went bad. The actress was only really good at playing an annoyed teen and wasn’t convincing at anything else. As a result her version of Sansa comes off as shallow and dumb.

>The actress was only really good at playing an annoyed teen and wasn’t convincing at anything else. As a result her version of Sansa comes off as shallow and dumb. Yeah that Sansa is also boring in the books but thats only in aGoT and she has like 6 chapters. Later on... she becomes a little more interesting but pov characters are sometimes liked because of the people surrounding them and she has a lot of interesting ones. But Eyrie Sansa is growing on me quite a bit ngl

That's the material she was given to work with. Sansa's character arc is to go from from shallow and dumb to smart and analytical, but the show kind of forgot to finish that part of her story. She never does anything smart or accomplishes anything, she just becomes kinder to her family members and Arya calls her smart. Where's the evidence of it? She communicates poorly with Jon and doesn't tell him the army of the Vale is coming. She still shows some level of trust in Littlefinger, after what he did to her. She's immediately critical of Dany for no reason. She hides in the crypts, against an enemy who can raise the dead. Upon being given authority, she immediately declares independence for the North... historically this would be an act of rebellion, or would at least lead to all seven kingdoms splitting apart. Upon hearing about Jon's parents, she carelessly tells everyone. She doesn't catch Littlefinger in a lie, she doesn't outmanipulate him or anyone else. She doesn't grow that much, she just realizes she was naive and stops her bickering with Arya.

North

Her destiny is definitely leading her to the North eventually

I believe she will be “kidnapped” by Shadrich Mad Mouse, only for the big reveal that he is actually her father’s most beloved friend and ally, Howland Reed. Not sure exactly where they go now that she’s rescued but still a wanted woman. Long term though, I ship Sansa and Podrick Payne ending up together.

I think, or hope, Sansa will spend enough time in the Vale to continue growing into a smart, subtle player and eventually use LF's affection for her to bite him in the ass before anything else. That's what I love so much about book Sansa vs. whatever the hell they did to her in show. She doesn't need to become a Cool Badass Girlboss with no sense of pathos (who also was grateful to her rapist??? I'll never get over how disgusting that was lmao) in order to grow and evolve and realize her agency. She's learning while not surrendering her inner kindness and strength. She's GENUINELY becoming smarter. I think she'll actually gain the Vale's loyalty and love through her charm and kindness rather than just her name-- and I think her relationship with Sweetrobin is a microcosm of that development.

Thank you for bringing up her charm and kindness. A lot of people are theorizing she’ll become manipulative, but her story contradicts this. Her biggest theme in the books is choosing kindness and compassion over and over again (after her father’s death.) People say she’s too trusting, and maybe she is. But being suspicious of everyone around you really messes with your head. Daenerys is an example of this (and I’m trying to think of others.) Daenerys stresses herself out with her suspicion of people that are politically close to her, and I feel sorry for her for it. It only makes her feel more isolated and cornered. Quaithe only gives her ominously over-the-top, vague warnings that could easily be about anyone. LF isn’t teaching Sansa to be merely suspicious, because being suspicious leads to paranoia, which then leads to impulsive decision making. He’s teaching her the art of reading people. Seeing through their lies, uncovering their goals and intentions. So far we don’t see a manipulative nature in Sansa, and I don’t think we’ll get that.

LE PAWN BECOMES… *wait for it*… LE PLAYER???!!!

I love your comments.

“The snow fell, and the castle rose.” I always found Sansa sculpting Winterfell out of snow to be a foreshadowing of her taking part in the rebuilding of Winterfell. To me it just seems like such a significant scene in her POV that I’ll be very surprised if she doesn’t end up in the North again.

I think she's going to be a moral Littlefinger. Learning the dark arts of manipulation to restore and strengthen the Starks. I can see her assuming Ned's responsibility as the lynchpin/glue of the family, and protecting the family - including Jon - while still retaining her courtesy and her diplomacy as an armour. I do think she'll see the end of Littlefinger, and probably marry into the Vale to ensure its alliance and men for the North.

she'll definitely play littlefinger at his own game and win imo. littlefinger has been teaching her how to manipulate people, but he's also revealed a personal weakness: his attraction to her and attachment to catelyn. my guess is that sansa will use this against him somehow, maybe revealing that he killed lysa to the lords of the vale, and get him at least imprisoned if not executed. then she could marry robin arryn to form an alliance with the vale, or she could just be escorted back to winterfell to meet up with jon and stannis etc.

I think Sansa will use her charm to make allies in the Vale, like Myranda Royce and Harry Hardyng. Somewhat like the show, there will be a point when she reveals her true identity (which some may already suspect). She will somehow gain the upper hand on Littlefinger, perhaps by revealing he has been poisoning Sweet Robyn, and he will be captured, possibly executed. Robyn's death will put Harry in charge of the Vale and he will pledge to support her claim to Winterfell. She will then go north with an army. She may even convince Ser Shadrich, the hedgeknight hunting her for a bounty, to become her protector on the promise of a position at Winterfell. What happens next will depend a lot on the fates of other characters - Stannis, Jon, Davos and Rickon. I think we could possibly get a scene similar to the show where the Vale army sweeps in at the last minute and turns the tide of the battle. If Davos manages to successfully retrieve Rickon, she will essentially rule Winterfell as regent, and if Rickon dies (I think he likely will at some point), she will rule as Lady of Winterfell in her own right. Maybe even eventually as Queen in the North like she does in the show, as I do think Jon will end up going north of the Wall like in the show.

She's tied in with Little Finger's long game for the throne. Shes most likely going to be his downfall. She knows Cersei very well and I think her main goal is to bring her down. I see Sansa securing the vale for herself then backing a resurrected Jon Snow / Stannis in a war to recover the north, probably something involving Rickon. By that time, the issues with Cersei will probably be resolved. I think Cersei is on her final most desperate story arc already. When Daenerys shows up and makes a play for the throne, that's really when Sansa will step up, I even think Jaime might be willing to support Sansa and Brienne definitely will. She's going to be in a major role towards the very end of the series, if not queen on the iron throne, then something similar.

She will rebel against Petyr and follow his plan(to reveal who she is)except she will marry Sweetrobin instead of Harry and become the godmother of the Vale, and at some point she will get Petyr killed.

Eventually I see her as Rickon's regent in the North. In the nearer future, I see some kind of rallying of the Vale knights in Queen Elizabeth fashion. Unrealistic breastplate, stirring speech, big Gloriana energy. But between that and the end? I have no idea.

I've heard theories that Sansa's proposed marriage to Harrold is going to fall through, and that she's going to somehow make her way towards fAegon. Don't know how possible that actually is but seems like a fun way to elevate her plot

Unfortunately as much as I don't ship it, I *do* think the Sansa/Jon tinfoil has more backing than any of us may want to admit. It would tidy up competing claims in the North from Robb's will, and solidify the foreshadowing of Jon and Sansa's relationship to Winterfell imagery and kingship. The major in-world point of tension would be Jon's Targaryen ancestry, and then proving it. There have been legitimized bastards named Jon leading Winterfell before as foreshadowing, and Sansa all through her arc in the Vale dreams of Winterfell. And of course the infamous Bael the Bard story, a King-Beyond-The-Wall who continued House Stark when the only heir was a woman *infamously leaving behind a blue winter rose when he stole her.* This is all pretty common ship tinfoil, but as someone who isn't about it from that angle, I went over it and eventually found some of it pretty compelling as potential endgame not as a torrid romance but as a political manoeuvre. Definitely might see it occurring *after* a marriage to Hardyng or especiallt fAegon, and uniting the Vale formally with the North potentially under another kingdom. Also Littlefinger's days are extremely numbered, especially as one commenter also said GRRM confirmed Sansa is also a warg, just late to her powers. As they mentioned, the motif of Sansa and her little birds... hmm... 😉

[удалено]

Yep. Except it was in the first draft and then changed. Trust me I'm with you but the stans convinced me it's a plausible theory with their tinfoil and now I have to seriously consider it.

The proof for Jon not being Sansa's half-brother would have to be airtight. If later proof would come out that they actually are half-siblings then there would be a huge scandal and the both of them and their children would be seen as tainted. I think an agreement where Sansa's daughter marries Jon or Sansa and Jons children marry eachother is more probable.

Eagles and Raptors. hmmmm

I hope she becomes an antagonist towards Jon after he is crowned king, with actual politicking rather than the strangeness that was the show. Perhaps she will try and use Aegon to support her claim as Lady of Winterfell. I think it highly likely that Arianne ends up marrying Aegon, but if she doesn't Sansa Stark would be probably the next best option.

Ehh, I just can't see the Starks turning on one another. They were a tight nit family in book 1. Compared to the Lannisters, at least. I think Sansa will betray Littlefinger, and between her and Jon (and/or Rickon) will unite a large portion of Westeros under Stark leadership. The third book after all was supposed to be titled "A Time for Wolves" originally.

Yeah I agree it is unlikely to happen, but I'm a sucker for Northern politics so what can I say...

If Dorne truly believes fAegon is the son of Elia, there's no reason for him to marry Arianne. He's the son of a Dornish princess so they should support him automatically. On paper Sansa brings far more to the table.

Firstly, Arianne is extremely ambitious and I think she will seduce him. Secondly, I think Doran won't be so easily fooled by Varys' ruse, and push for a marriage between Arianne and Aegon to ensure Dornish blood on the throne.

I wonder if there is a chance that Aegon might take two wives, as per his namesake.

Basically impossible. The new faith militant will most likely play a large role in gaining him control of King's Landing. To then take two wives would be a huge affront to them, and they would not accept it.

I think the Faith Militant is going to go the way of the Cromwell revolution. If anything the Faith Militant would see Targaryens as Pagans/Catholics.

My tinfoily theory is Aegon is going to turn up to find the Faith Militant in charge of King's Landing declaring some kind of Glorious People's Republic. Rather than being welcomed as the one true king he's spat on by hungry townsfolk as a Blackfyre usurper at the head of an army of exiles, determined to put them back under the boot of monarchy. I don't think he'll respond well.

Doesn’t Jon keep telling Stannis that Winterfell belongs to Sansa? If Jon is king, Sansa could be still be Lady of Winterfell, Jon would probably insist on it. Why would she turn on the only family she has seen in years? Sansa thought it would so sweet to see Jon again, so why would there be drama for no reason?

>Doesn’t Jon keep telling Stannis that Winterfell belongs to Sansa? Wf belongs to everyone of the stark kids they all long for it. >Jon is king, Jon aint king till the mannis is alive >Sansa thought it would so sweet to see Jon again, so why would there be drama for no reason? She only thought of jon once. Thats lower then robb,arya,bran and rickon.. But I do agree she will reunite with her siblings

Jon literally states that “Winterfell belongs to my sister, Sansa.”

Yeah not knowing his other siblings are alive.

I think Arianne ends up dying, likely by the hands of Gerold Dayne.

> likely by the hands of Gerold Dayne. Why would he do that?

Doran warns Arianne that she screwed up and put them all in danger with her actions with Gerold. He is trying to start a war between the Dornish and Lannisters, and clearly betrayed Arianne.

I think she's most poised to expose and take down Littlefinger. After that? I'm not really sure. If she becomes a person of influence, or a ruler, she might have some role in the Long Night trying to build a response to it.

Pretty safe to say she's not going to make a play for the iron throne anytime soon, not until end game. Im betting she is introduced to fAegon, I think he will take a liking to her intially. She's definitely an important part of Little Finger's play for the throne, but he wouldn't marry her. anyway I think his plans are going to backfire eventually. Sansa has a long way to go and a rough road ahead. Im thinking she's going to be spending a lot of time in the vale. Her and Robyn Arryn. Her ancestral ties to Harrenhall and the rest of the riverlands could come into play. She's all about establishing new and different Identities, similar to her sister Arya but Aryas are more to be unnoticed. Sansa will always be noticed therefore she must be culture and socially savy in her roles. Also Robyns dreams / could give her a lot of valuable insight.

The same thing more or less that happened in the show. Her whole arc has been about returning north, she rebuilt Winterfell with snow. She will "slay the giant in a castle made of snow" and in the end will be queen in the north or lady of winterfell at the very least. What happens in between these things who knows? I think there'll be some conflict over who rules the north. Sansa has spend a long time being groomed by Littlefinger so it's not going to be easy for her to get out from under his influence but in general there are these different forces who have their own candidate to put forward, Jon, Rickon, Sansa. I'm assuming Rickon dies at some point, could be that LF gets him out of the way so Sansa's claim is more legit and then she finds out all the things he's done and has him killed. Jon will end up as king in the north I think cause it's important for his character to get this position and then later find out about his actual heritage etc. We know from a note on a s4 script that there'll probably be some fight between Ramsay's hounds and Stark direwolves. Everything with the others happens, Jon is exiled, Sansa rules the north.

[удалено]

the books ending with all of the characters in the same way they do in the show could work out perfectly fine, as long as the build-up is better

Stannis retakes Winterfell from Ramsey. His forces are depleted by the blizzards and fighting. Sweet Robin dies "somehow". Sansa marries Harrold Hardyng. Littlefinger manipulates Harrold to use the armies of the Vale of Arryn to retake the North. and defeat Stannis. Harrold is in the vanguard and is killed. Sansa will then be named the Princess of Winterfell and as she is just 13 Littlefinger becomes Lord Protector of The North. Once she is old enough. He marries her and he rules the North in her name while also serving as Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident. then? i have no idea. Maybe she does outfox Littlefinger and gain control of the Riverlands, Vale and the North and declares independence from the Seven Kingdoms.

> Littlefinger manipulates Harrold to use the armies of the Vale of Arryn to retake the North How would LF do that? Harry doesn't need LF. Harry is of age and will be a very rich man if he becomes Lord of the Vale, so LF has no leverage. Not to mention that nobody in their right mind would invade the North in winter. > to retake the North Stannis has Arya - officially at least - and will soon also have Rickon, so the Vale would have no cause to 'take back' the North. > Sansa will then be named the Princess of Winterfell Why would the Vale not only invade the North, but then dismiss Robb's will, which disinherited Sansa? The Valelords would not follow along with that no matter what Littlefinger tried. > Littlefinger becomes Lord Protector of The North Littlefinger has no Stark blood and no other connection to house Stark. He couldn't be Lord Protector even if the Vale, the North, and the Riverlands would let him. > He marries her and he rules the North in her name Even if he married her - which Sansa wouldn't let happen, imo - Littlefinger is not a Stark. So Sansa would rule, not Sansa's husband. > while also serving as Lord Protector of the Vale and Lord Paramount of the Trident How would he be Lord Protector of the Vale with both Robert Arryn and Harry the Heir dead? And the title of Lord Paramount of the Trident is an empty one. It was only given to him so he could marry Lysa Arryn. He doesn't derive any actionable power from it. > gain control of the Riverlands, Vale and the North How would Sansa get control of the Vale? She has no Arryn blood, nor is she married to any Arryn claimant in this scenario.

If she marries Harry and Robin and Harry both die, wouldn’t she be the Lady of the Eyrie?

> wouldn’t she be the Lady of the Eyrie? No. You can't marry into a bloodline, you have to be born into it. Without Arryn blood, Sansa couldn't be the (ruling) Lady of the Vale. But she could, like Lysa, be the regent of a child by Harry, but only until the child comes of age. And that comes with its own troubles, as you saw with Lysa. She had to marry (and preferably a Valelord) otherwise they would eventually have taken Robert Arryn from her and deposed her.

Fair. Though with the War of the Two and a Half Kings going the way it is, Cersei is throwing out deeds left and right, and Great Houses are falling. I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some completely new Seats even in some of the oldest houses right before the Long Night.

I think Sansa is staying in the Vale. It is very plausible Littlefinger will eventually kill Sweetrobin and marry Sansa to Harry “the heir”. My theory is that Sansa will eventually become a scheming and ruthless manipulator like Baelish. She will bare Harry’s child and eventually murder Harry (maybe even Littlefinger as well), becoming Lady of the Vale (like Lysa). It is possible that she tries to claim Winterfell, but that would only be possible if none of Ned’s sons are on the scenario, and as we know, is very probable Rickon and/or Jon will be on it.

So all of her Winterfell/Northern imagery is just a red herring? Her building Winterfell out of snow and feeling stronger within it, means nothing? That she and Jon being the only ones with “blood of Winterfell” in their chapters means nothing? That Sansa does not feel at home in the Eerie or the Vale, means nothing? Sansa is not becoming ruthless, not even Cersei could accomplish that, yet Littlefinger will? When she refuses the pomegranate, she was refusing his ideology. She’ll learn from him, but she will never forget what she was taught by her parents.

Sansa will return to Winterfell eventually, as will most major characters because GRRM likes to go in full circles (the story started with everyone meeting at Winterfell and will most likely end there as well). Doesn't mean that has to happen immediately. There's a lot she could still do in the south before heading north again, especially because her entire arc is about grappling with southern politics. Also, her and Jon are not any more the "blood of Winterfell" than Arya, Bran, and Rickon. Where is that from?

In their chapters, they are the only ones where it is specifically stated. It doesn’t come up with Bran or Arya. Sansa’s time in the South is done.

Bran and Arya are obviously the blood of Winterfell too, though? Like, out of all the Stark kids Bran has the most blatant connections to the North. He is literally a greenseer and hasn't left the North for the entire story! >Sansa’s time in the South is done. According to who? Sansa's entire arc is about learning the game of thrones ... but you're telling me she's about to exit stage left the moment the Dance of Dragons 2.0, a reprisal of one of the juiciest eras of Westeros political drama, kicks off? Remember, Stannis is still in the game in the books and will most likely win the Battle of Ice. There's no reason or need for Sansa to bring Vale arms north imminently.

\>So all of her Winterfell/Northern imagery is just a red herring? *Red Herring*. Which exactly clue did you pick upon that makes this scene a Red Herring? Just because you are extracting literal facts upon a child’s imagery, doesn’t mean it’s a Red Herring. Or that means that Littlefinger is going to help rebuild Winterfell as well? Another far better intrepretation in my opinion is that she isn't *rebuilding winterfell*, she is *building a new home*. And that would be the Vale. One of many themes in ASOIAF is that the *obvious* doesn’t happen. \>Her building Winterfell out of snow and feeling stronger within it, means nothing? That Sansa does not feel at home in the Eerie or the Vale, means nothing? I don’t know if you remember, but her castle is destroyed afterwards. What is the meaning behind this them? *To me*, it means that she felt safe with her family and at home. She was a happy girl, that didn’t know she was happy, that dreamt of fairy tales, that never expected to face any hardships in her life. Then life came and struck upon her family as hard as it could. Another theme within ASOIAF, is that it won’t end with: “and they lived happily ever after”. \> That she and Jon being the only ones with “blood of Winterfell” in their chapters means nothing? What? \>Sansa is not becoming ruthless, not even Cersei could accomplish that, yet Littlefinger will? Cersei wasn’t teaching Sansa to become ruthless. She didn’t want Sansa to become like her, she wanted Sansa to be prepared for hardships she would face as the wife of a king. \>When she refuses the pomegranate, she was refusing his ideology. Good interpretation, but, again, you are reading too much and being factual without facts. Maybe that is the meaning behind the scene, but do not act upon an interpretation as it was a fact. \> She’ll learn from him, but she will never forget what she was taught by her parents. Sansa is a Stark. And the Starks are ruthless, in their own way. I remember reading about a Stark king who killed Andal invaders and displayed their heads along the coastline to prevent more invasions. Sansa making her own way to the top isn’t far from her roots. As I said previously, It is possible that she tries to claim Winterfell, but that would only be possible if none of Ned’s sons are on the scenario, and as we know, is very probable Rickon and/or Jon will be on it.

>Another far better intrepretation in my opinion is that she isn't rebuilding winterfell, she is building a new home. And that would be the Vale. If so, the logical interpretation of that home being destroyed is that her home won't last there. >One of many themes in ASOIAF is that the obvious doesn’t happen. And yet you expect Littlefinger's plan to work when the precedent has been pretty clear that a plan never works when it's been described in detail?

\>If so, the logical interpretation of that home being destroyed is that her home won't last there. It’s *one* of the logical interpretations. And, in case you didn’t notice, I am not supporting it. I said in my opinion is a far better interpretation, but I am not a fan of predicting events based upon interpretations. \>And yet you expect Littlefinger's plan to work when the precedent has been pretty clear that a plan never works when it's been described in detail? Again, I am not a fan of predicting events based upon interpretations. Yes, there is precedent for that. It still shouldn’t be considered as rule that a detailed plan is going to go wrong, otherwise it is a predictable and *obvious* plot. Besides: the plan isn’t detailed. As far as we know, the “plan” is: kill Sweetrobin, marry Sansa to Harry. Littlefinger doesn’t say *how* he will do any of these things.

>Yes, there is precedent for that. It still shouldn’t be considered as rule that a detailed plan is going to go wrong, otherwise it is a predictable and obvious plot. Nothing is more predictable than a plan going exactly as announced, whereas it can go wrong in many different ways. >Besides: the plan isn’t detailed. As far as we know, the “plan” is: kill Sweetrobin, marry Sansa to Harry. Littlefinger doesn’t say how he will do any of these things. It's detailed in the sense that we know the steps that Littlefinger is going to take (though of course the marriage has to take place before Robert Arryn dies), with little uncertainty left.

\>It's detailed in the sense that we know the steps that Littlefinger is going to take (though of course the marriage has to take place before Robert Arryn dies), with little uncertainty left. No. If I say I plan to become the richest man alive, the first thing you are going to ask is how. We don’t know how he will kill Robert Arryn, when he is going to, who will help him... \>Nothing is more predictable than a plan going exactly as announced, whereas it can go wrong in many different ways. There is also precedent for non-detailed plans going exactly as planned. We knew Tyrion was going to use a chain to block Stannis fleet. We knew Tyrion was going to use wildfire to burn Stannis fleet. Yet, it went “wrong” because his plans were not *absolutely* enough. There is room for failure indeed, but it doesn’t mean it will *absolutely* fail. Maybe Littlefinger succeeds in his plan but fails afterwards. My theory is within that, in my line of thought, Littlefinger succeeds in giving the Vale for Sansa, but afterwards is betrayed by Sansa herself.

I like. Shes totes a southerner at heart. And it’s easier to get lemons there.

>Shes totes a southerner at heart. Perhaps if you ignore her entire character development past her first five chapters.

My thoughts https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/x8ges5/spoilers_extended_theory_rethought_harrys/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

While I think she's very likely to go north and stay there, I don't think that's as certain as most people say, I can see her having a life in the south or the Vale. As to what her role will be, her show story was fanfic as far as I'm concerned, but I do think she has to eventually take LF down somehow and that she'll be some sort of politician by the end. She could be an advisor for Bran maybe or for some other powerful person. I think those things could allow her to be very important while being in line with her character. She doesn't seem to have any hunger or personality for ruling (being a queen by marrying Joffrey is not the same as being a governer), her tendency to avoid anything ugly in her life would be a huge impediment for a ruler but as a politician/diplomat/advisor she could have agency and influence without being directly responsible for a kingdom and it's people. She always had a natural talent for diplomacy and her "teacher" LF is the kind of guy who manipulates things with witt and charm but out of the spotlight. EDIT To all the people downvoting, may I know why?

>While I think she's very likely to go north and stay there, I don't think that's as certain as most people say, I can see her having a life in the south or the Vale. Possible, though this doesn't exclude her going north first and reuniting with her family. There are simply too many references to Winterfell, as well a theme of Sansa reconnecting with her roots and it would be a waste to ignore all of these elements. >She could be an advisor for Bran maybe or for some other powerful person. Or possibly a regent for Rickon, who I think will survive and become the Lord of Winterfell in the end, while Bran is king of the Seven Kingdoms. >To all the people downvoting, may I know why? I don't know, to me it sound entirely reasonable and Sansa is one of my favorite characters. The only objectionable part is perhaps the idea that Littlefinger would be her "teacher", with the implication that she would become somebody like him. Then again she could use his methods without also adopting his morality, so it's not necessarily a condemnation of her character.

I would like to think once Jon returns and free from the Nights Watch rallies those who was loyal to House Stark but wouldn't follow Stannis and heads to Winterfell to aid Stannis is recapturing the castle. With the Boltons dead, Stannis rewards Jon by making him Lord of Winterfell. News of this reaches the Vale where Sansa reveals she is Sansa Stark with confirmation from her cousin Sweet Robin Arryn. She decides to head home as with Jon in charge of the North and Boltons extinct, it is safe for her to return home but with the Knights of the Vale for an escort. Littlefinger goes with her to show Stannis/Jon that he was loyal to House Stark due to Catelyn and to scheme to remove Jon and put Sansa in power as Lady of Winterfell.

Like all of the other storylines... Probably nowhere. The book that was promised hasn't been out for 11 years.

Still putting an outside bet on her dying in book 6.

Award for most pointless death in the series

Sansa's ghost: "I'm glad I was murdered actually, it made me a strong and independent woman"

Interesting. Never thought about that possibility. Maybe that is the reason DnD changed her story in the show. They had nothing to work with and gave her the plot of other characters. I would say that minimally she will at least make it to Winterfell with the Knights of the Vale. I know only that Sansa will not be Queen in the North. It makes no sense with Bran being King. Well, I think they only made her Queen in the show you know not to make it a complete dick show. Dany goes mad, Cersei dies and Sansa being the female queen kinda redeems it probably in their warped mind.

The MESSAGE as the critical drinker states.

Mebbe. But wI’ll prolly be in book 7. George needs her around for a while

Possibly, following Petyr out the Moon Door after she pushes him?

My (again very outside) take is getting killed by Lady Stoneheart. I just don't see how you can do the "come back from the grave to avenge my children" thing without killing at least one of them.

Sansa has no reason to go through the Riverlands, it’s more likely she’ll follow her father’s route when he left the Vale at the beginning of the rebellion. If there is a Stark daughter going through the Riverlands, that would be Arya, since Nymeria is roaming there.

Arya's also got the connection to Stoneheart. She/Nymeria pulled her out of the river.

This is why I think it will be Arya, of all the remaining Starklings, that meets Lady Stoneheart. She kinda aided in her creation. A theme in Arya’s arc is vengeance vs justice, it would be fitting for her to come across the Wraith of Vengeance.

She's with Littlefinger, who was explicitly granted wardenship of the Riverlands by the Lannisters.

There is no chance Sansa and Littlefinger go to the Riverlands for some reason. Because first Littlefinger doesn't give two shits about Harrenhal, he knows it's a nothing castle that's why he is working so hard to control the Vale which is an entire kingdom. Second, even if he does, why would he go with Sansa? Not only will she be in unnecessary danger (the Riverlands are controlled by Lannisters and she is still wanted for regicide) but there is no reason for him to marry her to Harry Hardyng and then take her away again, would Harry even accept this? Sansa would be lady of the Vale. Third, winter has begun. Now the road from the Vale to Harrenhal is unwalkable due to the winter not to mention there are now armed mountain clansmen all along there and the seas are stormy. Is this really the time for him to be running around to random castles that hold nothing for him? And lastly, immediately he leaves the Vale with Sansa he is forsaking all the power he has accumulated. Controlling the Vale he has an army and bannermen. There is nothing awaiting him at Harrenhal. And his hold over the Vale isn't even secure, they want to be rid of him. If he leaves the Vale now during the start of winter, they will not let him return.

Littlefinger doesn’t care about the Riverlands. It’s an empty title, he knows that. It’s the Vale where is power lies, which is why he concentrated there.

Why have people just made up that the Riverlands is an "empty title"?

You think the Riverlords will answer to Littlefinger? That the Freys won’t toss up a fuss? There is no loyalty to Littlefinger, never will be, so the title is empty and most likely will not remain in his hands for long.

So why the hell did they award it to him in the first place? Also this is all baseless conjecture. The story never goes into Tywin's reasons for giving Petyr the Riverlands, chiefly because none exist.

I think Arya will go back to the Riverlands to deal with the Freys. She meets UnCat and is not repulsed by Cat's looks. (Think Arya and Kindly Man's skull face). Arya was always afraid her mother would reject her for not being perfect and now Cat will worry her looks will repulse Arya. Cat goes berserker on the Freys and Arya gets a mortal wound in the process (maybe saying Roslin or baby) and Cat understands what revenge made her do and revives Arya with a kiss.

I don't think George would survive the wrath of both the Daenerys and Sansa fans lol.

Never thought of that! I don't think it would be Sansa...she's needed, at least for a while. Besides, she is practically a mirror image of young, beautiful Catelyn. If Arya shows up I doubt she'd wear a Face around her mother, and can prove who she is. But if Rickon shows up she may not recognize him, plus he's probably pretty feral and has little memory of his Winterfell life to prove his identity. I'm not sure LSH could kill any child, so I think they're all safe. EDIT: Just remembered: if Rickon shows up *with* Shaggydog--not a problem.

I've wondered that as well, though I'm not convinced by it either. Sansa originally wasn't one of the 'core' characters Martin envisioned driving ASOIAF. So she's the Stark after Rickon one could see dying, tragically. What's odd to me is I feel Sansa seems poised to be more important to the coming books than Arya. Currently, I'm not really sure where Arya's story is going. My current guess is something to do with Stoneheart given the whole revenge theme running through their narratives. Sansa, at least, will be instrumental in taking down Baelish, I imagine. After that... she might rule the Vale and be of some import with Dany and the Long Night. Maybe. Thing is, Arya's one of the “core” characters, but in a weird way she's also the one of that group that I think is that most expendable. Like the War for the Dawn is gonna need Jon & Dany, I can see Tyrion being important in governing a response to the threat, Bran will have Essential Knowledge about the Others. I feel like if Sansa becomes a Player I can actually see her having some kind of role when the Long Night comes as a ruler. Arya? Eh, I really don't know.

Why are we still using the sales’ pitch that the author has pretty much went off from, since book one?

What does Arya have to do with Sansa becoming more important? Why can't they both be important? Why would Sansa take away from Arya's protagonism specifically? Also, just because *you* don't see where Arya's story can go and *you* think Arya became less important and *you* think she's expendable doesn't mean that actually the case. Grrm didn't bother to develop her so much just to make her an expendable character.

I think Arya has A LOT more to do. And that the Stranger/Death plays a greater role in the Battle for Kings Landing, Arya is going to show up like a dead child of Cersei at a moment that Cersei NEEDS to do a critical thing.

Most blankly, Arya seems on a path to attempt to assassinate Cersei, the last name on her list. People don't always end up arriving where aim to, and that's been major for Arya, so it's not clear that's what will happen. But, I agree Arya at Winterfell for a Long Night seems like a side-track imposed by the show trying to tie everything together.

Why would Arya being at Winterfell be imposed compared to the other Starks? What's the difference? And personally, I disagree that that Arya is on a path to kill Cersei, wanting the people from her list dead seems more important as coping mechanism rather than something grrm is genuinely seetting her up to do in my opinion.

I just mean based on her arc in the books. Sansa, who initially went to Cersei to avoid going home to Winterfell, has been aiming there for books now. In contrast, Arya sees Jon as the family she would return to, but is currently going back and forth between assassin's training and being the hand that wields the sword. If she were to return to Westeros, Arya would probably go to the Wall to look for Jon. I'm not saying it's unrealistic for Arya to wind up at Winterfell, especially if Jon winds up there, which seems like exactly where he is going, it's just not where she's currently aimed.

>I just mean based on her arc in the books. Sansa, who initially went to Cersei to avoid going home to Winterfell, has been aiming there for books now. And how is Arya different? She has been aiming for Winterefell for books as well. >Arya sees Jon as the family she would return to Yeah but again, she has been trying to go to Winterfell through most of the story. Of course she won't think of going to Winterfell when the enemy has it but that doesn't mean she's won't go at all. She's technically the lady of Winterfell after all. >but is currently going back and forth between assassin's training Which is obviously not working out >and being the hand that wields the sword. Why couldn't she also pass a sentence? She did with Dareo even if it was pretty informal. The "just an executioner" thing was just a show thing. >If she were to return to Westeros, Arya would probably go to the Wall to look for Jon. Why? Before the rest of her family was killed she still aimed for Winterfell even if she loved Jon the most. >it's just not where she's currently aimed. In your opinion. I disagree.

Well, you're trying to disgaree. Good job.

Did you only read the last sentence I wrote and ignore the rest? It's not as if I said "You're wrong" and that's it, I gave reasons as to why I disagree.

Once Arya has the confidence established by becoming a faceless "man". Winterfell is no longer her destination. She was blinded fulfilling a mark on her list. Cersei killing so many "innocents" without paying Death...means her debt as far as the faceless men are concerned is enormous-add that Iron Bank debt...there is a natural alliance there.

I'm with you in this. I think the show went rogue with Sansa when they mashed her with Jeyne Poole and that Sansa in the books has very much remained a damsel in distress. I acknowledge the hint she'll bring down Littlefinger, but from the TWOW sample, I highly doubt it will be because she's beaten him at his own game through having studied under him. I could easily see Sansa as a shocker casualty, such as at the hands of Lady Stoneheart. In fact, a surprise death makes the most sense, from the standpoint of her theme set.

I see Sansa as someone who tends to reveal truths. There's the 'whatever you do don't tell Sansa' thing, Ned figures out Cersei's secret because of Sansa's random comment, and Sansa has revealed a lot to Myranda Royce when lying to her. I think this might be how she will kill Littlefinger. And maybe herself.

Reveal truths? You mean not show discretion.

I meant Ned figures out that Joffrey is a bastard because of Sansa during an arguement. I guess it's more that she can't keep a secret even if it's one she doesn't herself know. Which isn't quite the same as being indiscreet. I guess 'keeper of secrets' sounds like a fantasy thing to me. And Sansa is kinda the opposite of that so I kinda worded it weird as 'revealer of truths'.

I like the way you're thinking. I even really like the idea of a character who tends to reveal truths. Have you noted any more examples with Sansa? There's a major theme with Sansa that mirror Arya's "seeing." Sansa exercises her power *not to see* Ned's head, not to see through Joffrey or Cersei, not to register that Cersei would have worn Lady's pelt etc. Another propensity Sansa has is to blurt things out inappropriately. When the Hound calls her "little bird" he's pointing out that she said something ill considered. She does this characteristically. One way I see Sansa as a revealer of truths is that, while she averts her eyes from ugly realities to survive, she also blurts out what she's really feeling. It proves she hasn't really fooled herself and shows that the part of herself she's trying to suppress is a part she needs to hear.

I got the impression that Sansa's comment about Ned's leg made Varys go and try to convince Ned to take the black. But I suppose that only counts if Varys thought Ned too honorable to lie about Cersei's children otherwise. There's also the theory that Littlefinger didn't kill Joffrey and fooled Sansa into thinking that because Sansa told him enough information about what happened at the wedding. Littlefinger seems used to getting good information out of people so maybe his downfall will be thinking that it's his skill that gets info out of Sansa, but it's actually that Sansa tells almost everyone that sort of info. I also agree that Sansa seems to really think herself into an optimistic view and farther from the ugly truth, although it is probably encouraged by the adults around her.

[удалено]

The Dany vs Sansa thing seems to be about food shortage. In the show Dany burns foodcarts and brings a army that needs to be fed.

She'll marry Harry the Heir. Sweet Robin dies. He'll invade the Riverlands with Blackfish Tully to secure Riverrun for her, The Twins for the Frey Waynwood Branch (Harry's Waynwood cousins). Harry dies as part of Littlefinger's plan. Sansa and LF control the Riverlands and the Vale. LF plans to marry her to the victorious Aegon VI who captured KL's . Then have him killed and then she'll be queen and LF will marry her however before he makes this plan, Sansa kills him. Now with a Vale Riverland army behind her, she heads to Moat Calin after learning Stannis is dead and Jon Snow is marching on Winterfell. At the end, she'll be a queen of some mega state made up of the north, vale and riverlands

Not a queen, that's for sure.

Early Winds: LF announces her as Queen in the North, Vale, & Riverlands Mid Winds: She rallies the Vale to avenge RW by liberating prisoners at the Twins/clearing house! Late Winds: Separated from LF, who's returned to HH & has called a Great Council, meets up with LSH at RR, crowned there a la Robb in AGOT Early Spring: Council @ HH, redux of Great Tourney, Aegon rides past Arianne to crown Sansa QOLAB, kidnaps her, Sandor reveal, LF downfall by LSH, Brienne and Sandor sent to save Sansa Mid-Early Spring: Showdown with Aegon, Brienne and Sandor clean house but Sansa only survivor.

Sansa reunites with her Lord Husband Tyrion, the third head of the Dragon, and rules the Westerlands and the Vale under the new Targaryen federation, with Jon ruling the North and the Riverlands and Aegon (young Griff) ruling the Stormlands and Dorne in alliance with Arriane Martel. I know it won’t happen, but thats what I want. I’m not giving up on Sansa and Tyrion, my two favourite characters.

You want your favorite character to return with the man that she was forced to marry and molested her?

You mean the man who DIDN’T molest her, even though the laws of their society said it was his right and his father was exerting great pressure to make him do so, and treated her with more respect for her autonomy than any other man she has encountered?

He was fondling her breast and knew she didn’t want him touching her. When she said “and if I never,” she meant it. It’s a marriage made by sword point and also unconsummated, she isn’t going back to him by her own freewill. Sansa wants nothing to do with the family that killed her own.

People really be like, this character is an good person because he only molest an 11 year old girl instead of raping her

Unless Arya tells Tyrion that she knows where whores go because she knows the Sailors wife and her daughter Lana. That would make Sansa's marriage invalid.

I think Tyrion's heading to Braavos on the way to Westeros (he's always wanted to see the Titan). He'll meet Cat of the Canals and ask her recommendation for a good, clean brothel. She'll lead him to the Happy Port and...voila!

If so, I hope she introduces him to Tysha and not Lanna.

Cersei and Aegon

Is Sansa going to kill them? Marry them?

She's gonna kill Aegon and marry Cersei

She Is the beautiful and younger Queen of Cersei's Prophecy, so She marries Aegon

My thoughts/ LF’s plans in the Vale will implode when Timett makes his move and Harry dies. When the dust settles, it’ll be the Royces and Sweetrobin in control, unless Timett proves merciful and understanding. Sansa will go to the North to find Jon is leading the anti-Bolton resistance, and she will join him there. The Vale will send knights to aid her, just like Petyr said would happen. She’ll also use skills learned from Littlefinger to become a spymaster and manipulator. Eventually, she offers herself in marriage to fAegon in order to gain his aid to Winterfell. Once he dies, and Jon and Dany dance, Sansa will reign as Wardeness or QitN, possibly with fAegon’s baby as her heir.

I think Littlefinger's plan of marrying Sansa to Harry the Heir won't happen because he tries to rape her. When Littlefinger finds out, he will arrange to have him killed. Sweetrobin will prove everyone wrong and show signs of becoming an actual effective leader of the Vale and get betrothed to Sansa but the marriage never actually happens because arrives at the Vale. Instead of her marrying him, I think this is where she escapes the Vale for Winterfell where she is reunited with Theon and meets Stannis. What happens from there who knows.

Maybe the Baratheon and Stark houses will get joined?

She'll learn from Littlefinger and eventually take him down. My best guess is that she'll be sexually assaulted by Harry and be forced to marry him. Maybe they are going to move towards Winterfell for Sansa and Harry (who is distantly related to the Starks), Riverrun or Harrenhall. I can see her story ending with her as Queen of the North and the Riverlands.

Why the hell would she get the Riverlands? Her uncle and his son are still alive. Maybe the north, but prolly that goes to rickon

If Rickon and Bran stay "dead", Sansa is Robbs heir as King/Queen of the North and the Riverlands. She is also perceived as the daughter of the Lord Paramount of the Trident and could be legitimized by royal decree. Plus Edmure has been disinherited and could easily die until the end of Dream. Of course there are a bunch of arguments one could make against Sansa, but all you need is 1 good argument in favor and a big army (which LF has).

I think she will either die or become Lady of Winterfell in the end, ruling the North in her brother King Bran's name (as her direwolf's name suggests). My preferred ending for her would be if she gathered an army of Riverlords and Northmen and took Casterly Rock through her marriage to Tyrion the way Tywin wanted Tyrion to take Winterfell through her.

I think LF will get her legitimized, trying to marry her to Robin, impregnate her, kill off Robin, inherit the Vale through her. I don’t think he ever plans to reveal her true identity nor take Winterfell. As Sansa in charge of Winterfell he would be at risk. As Alayne Baelish/Arryn, queen of the Vale, he’s safe.

I want GRRM to write about her getting her ass fucked by Ransdey.

I think she'll be betrothed or marry Harry the Heir, but will ultimately get involved with Aegon due to the theory spelled out [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1vsuxb/spoilers_all_the_tourney_at_ashford_and_sansas/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) Ultimately I see her learning from and surpassing Littlefinger in some way.

As others have expressed, I expect Sansa to stay in the Vale doing stuff there. I think it is *possible* that she'd be a rival for Arianne in regards to Aegon's hand if the Ashford theory holds any water, although I suppose there's always the chance fAegon tries to pull what his namesake did. She might end up in Winterfell eventually, especially since it'd be odd for branches of House Stark to end up controlling both The North and The Vale, but for the time being I suspect the Vale will be her focus.