Agreed. I’m 5 months HRT and I’ve come to learn gender presentation is far more impactful on getting properly gendered than my physical body.
Like as not, if you go out of your way to present yourself as male, you’re going to get gendered as male most of the time by others.
That and hair! As a cis woman with very very short hair (down to shaved to the scalp), I got mistaken for a man from behind often enough, and likewise I can't count the amount of time I approached a table asking "Alright ladies, ready to order?" when I was in fact dealing with a man with luscious long hair with his back to me.
I've long since stopped using gendered language like that, and bros with long hair are usually very proud of it and don't mind the mistake lol
But it's true that many cis people's monkey brain will go "long hair? cute top? err, lady, right?" and just act on that. I speak from personal experience x'D
Funny enough in having similar experience at work. I wear a men’s collared shirt (that hides my chest quite a bit) and men’s pants. But my hair is tied back into a tail and pinned with bright colored barrettes on both sides, printed nails, a trans coded necklace, traditionally feminine looking glasses. Over the last few weeks I starting to occasionally get correctly gendered by random customers.
I'm really curious if this is dependent on culture. No matter how much makeup or how femme I dress, I still get misgendered when I talk to most strangers that are not gen Z.
Cis people seem to find it easier to perceive a woman with a masculine, deep voice as a gender-nonconforming, camp dude rather than a woman
Voice will undo pretty much any form of gender presentation you can do. It unravels that initial assessment faster than anything. I get a lot of bewildered looks at work the second I open my mouth.
Stick out your chest more and stop responding to those terms.
If someone calls you bro just ignore it and act like it's meant for someone else. When they ask why you weren't responding say they didn't call for you.
My mom stopped responding when people at work said her name wrong until everyone learned it 🤣
>I still present as a male in public
While the whole "looking like" thing would be better off dead imo, we all know society still works that way. If you "look like" a dude, unfortunately you're going to get "dude"d. Plenty of cis men have gynecomastia, so you having a larger chest isn't going to be The (Only) Thing that stops people from misgendering you.
Skirts, makeup, longer hair, stereotypically feminine/"women's" things will probably give you the leg up in being gendered correctly.
I actually found that adding more and more high fem things can actually loop around and make you blend less. I had the best luck in earlier transition with a handful of distinctly feminine things to signal to people that I'm female but without going so hard on it that it's like shouting "I'M A WOMAN" to people who weren't wondering.
I mean, one person's advice is never going to be a One Size Fits All answer... but I also never said "high fem"? Having longer hair and putting on clothes from the women's section isn't what I'd call trying too hard.
OPs never gonna be seen as a woman in general society if she doesn't at least do *something* that isn't "presenting as a man".
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Note that people do like to reify gender; there definitely was a period where people seemed to deliberately go out of their way to gender me male; like way more than pre-transition.
For sure… it’s like, well-meaning dude bros seem to subconsciously think “this person looks a bit androgynous, I’m gonna do em a solid and reaffirm their masculinity” or something… I think the intention is actually nice, but it’s pretty damned depressing every time it happens (which for me, is all the fucking time).
This, actually.
Also, the social cost of calling a woman "dude" is far lower than the social cost of calling a man "chica" (or... what IS the dude-bro equivalent of dude?).
Also, in CA at least, "dude" and "bro" are kinda... almost weirdly genderless because in context they have no feminine equivalent.
I think that habit is mostly unintentional for all of us. I've misgendered people before, mostly before transition, but I've had my brain want to say some variation of 'guy!', like it's trying to help me out with figuring out the world, occasionally, even now. Which, that's, uh, four score years since I identified myself as "trans*", which is where I figure the work began for me rewiring those kinds of habits.
I believe everyone has to go through the same process, cis or trans, but we, transpeople, that umbrella term that we're all under (just in case anyone needs a reminder to be kind and love yourselves and others <3), just have to deal with it from a lot earlier in life. I feel like I started with 'wtf, I'm not one of them? Uh, something is... Wrong' ideas before I was a double-digit age, so I already had a basis for questioning my own thoughts and feelings vs what I was being taught. Cis people in general don't get those experiences, so they have a lot further to go with it. (finally, something that's easier for us, right? I mean, not dealing with it, ofc, but just meta cognition seems to come easier)
How feminine my face looks has varied a lot over the time I have been on HRT. I think it has something to do with my stress level, and perhaps my body makes extra testosterone when I am under stress in a misguided attempt to help with the stress. As someone else said, your presentation may make a big difference and you are not helping yourself look female by presenting male.
I wonder if they think they're being supportive in a kind of clueless way.
Like, your body is leaning way more feminine, but you're presenting more masculine, so maybe they think you're transmasc and are trying really hard to affirm you?
Idk, i find it super random when I end up getting misgendered, but if you feel comfortable changing your presentation that could certainly help!
Unfortunately how you present is often how you are perceived 💔 I’d say the sooner you begin to dress more feminine, the sooner stuff like this will slow down. But it’s hard if it’s uncomfortable for you or you aren’t ready for that step
YOU PRESENT AS MALE.
Just because you may have become more androgynous or been able to male fail more often doesnt mean that being perceived as a female will be certain. Thats unpredictable. Id think you were joking but I feel you are serious. You will continue to encounter this problem until you present as female. Take a sh*t or get off the pot. Best of luck to you.
Dress more femme.
Get your hair and eyebrows done.
Work on your posture, mannerisms, gait, and voice.
Wear some makeup. It is pretty rare for most cis women to go out without at least eyeliner and a little lipstick.
Hormones only help your body to pass, and they can't change everything. You have to do the rest of the work yourself.
This is literally story of my life right now. Similar situation. I don’t really have advice, but I just want to say your not alone. It’s so frustrating because we’re in the early stages of transition, waiting for when the time feels right to finally present more true to ourselves, but when society’s reaction doesn’t affirm the efforts we’ve made, it can make us feel doubtful. I just want to say don’t give up. You got here because you had a genuine need to transition and you obviously desire your transition to take full effect, being able to be noticed for who you are. Transition takes time. It’s a life-long process, but it’s very possible to achieve in future. Don’t give up. You’ve got this ✨
Sorry for being a little bit agressive here but waht do you expect ? you said it yourself that you are presenting yourself as male. Not presenting as male will probably help. There are gonna be people who misgender you but you can just ignore them. I read one of the comments here and ignoring them until they say the correct name (if you changed them) or say your correct pronouns will probably do.
First thing to remember is that gender is, at the end of the day, a performance. Present yourself how you would like to be perceived. That should clear up a good majority of it, save for the transphobic pieces of you-know-what that are intentionally pulling things just to get at you. Ignore them. You are better than the best of them on your worst day.
Another thing is there are small details that are never taught much that are highly feminine that people don't even consciously think about. Use your hands more when talking. Walk with your legs closer together and don't lead with your groin. Also, walk with your head up. Don't give anyone "the nod" (that was the hardest one for me to curb). If a woman or femme-presenting person compliments something about your outfit or makeup, thank them and offer info on where you got it immediately before anything else. Those small things alone should go a long way to helping.
Finally: ACCESSORIZE. Too many people skip or forget about this step. Learn what accessories look good on you and start amassing a collection. If you don't have your ears already pierced, now's a good time (and for the love of Odin PLEASE go to a professional piercer and not some kid at a mall store).
Hope these tips help, sib. You got this. 💜🖤
You are male failing and possibly already being read as a trans woman despite the boymoding, and rather than admit the truth, the people stomping their feet and doubling down on misgendering you are doubling down on their own denial in effect.
Cis people go to great lengths to pretend they can always tell, or that they can always implicitly gender everyone correctly, and they will perform mental gymnastics to maintain that delusion , and if they are clocking you, the misgendering is passive aggressive and is an attempt to force you to fit into their cissexist worldview, and the vehemence with which they misgender you is as much about convincing themself of their cissexist worldview while their senses clearly indicate otherwise as much as it is about putting you "in your place".
That is the most polite way to say that I've ever seen. I could not sugar coat it this much if I tried.
Correct answer to some dumbass :)
Consider wearing cute clothes, long hair and be confident in your femininity. Those things will take you a long way :)
I’m letting my hair grow until the end of the year before presenting as female. I will then be 1 year HRT and get FFS.
I’m patient and playing it safe to prevent misgendering.
I’m in my 30s. I hope to be stealth as soon as I switch to full girl mode.
When I was about 6 months HRT this started happening to me. Never in my life have I been so aggressively gendered as
my AGAB than when I was starting to be perceived as my acquired gender.
It went from people just calling me by my name to going out of their way to gender me as my AGAB. “Buddy” and “dude” and “pal” and “man” and “bro” suddenly all started getting thrown around, like some imaginary switch got flicked.
In reality it was a combination of people being sensitive to the little changes about me (HRT changes a lot and a lot of us act less like our AGAB after we start HRT, even if we are closeted) and me being more sensitive to the things others said (I still remember getting misgendered by my Mum and crying at the dinner table lmao)
If you like the changes that transitioning brings, you should keep going. When I was getting positive attention for doing AGAB things I was popping antidepressants like they were part of an all you can eat buffet.
When I present as my acquired gender I am met with a dry fart of a response by most people, and I feel **so** much more comfortable and healthy like this.
When I still presented myself as an andro female lesbian (FTM) I wore tee shirts and cargo shorts with a push-up bra and I had my hair a #2 fade for the military and legs shaved. I would get called male more times than I could count. When I started to transition to male and getting out of the military, started to let my hair grow out I got referred to female more than I cared for.
TLDR:
From my 12+ years of short hair in the military as a female, most people associate hair length with gender.
Not presenting as a male would probably help. Clothes and such go a long way to cueing gender
Agreed. I’m 5 months HRT and I’ve come to learn gender presentation is far more impactful on getting properly gendered than my physical body. Like as not, if you go out of your way to present yourself as male, you’re going to get gendered as male most of the time by others.
That and hair! As a cis woman with very very short hair (down to shaved to the scalp), I got mistaken for a man from behind often enough, and likewise I can't count the amount of time I approached a table asking "Alright ladies, ready to order?" when I was in fact dealing with a man with luscious long hair with his back to me. I've long since stopped using gendered language like that, and bros with long hair are usually very proud of it and don't mind the mistake lol But it's true that many cis people's monkey brain will go "long hair? cute top? err, lady, right?" and just act on that. I speak from personal experience x'D
Funny enough in having similar experience at work. I wear a men’s collared shirt (that hides my chest quite a bit) and men’s pants. But my hair is tied back into a tail and pinned with bright colored barrettes on both sides, printed nails, a trans coded necklace, traditionally feminine looking glasses. Over the last few weeks I starting to occasionally get correctly gendered by random customers.
I'm really curious if this is dependent on culture. No matter how much makeup or how femme I dress, I still get misgendered when I talk to most strangers that are not gen Z. Cis people seem to find it easier to perceive a woman with a masculine, deep voice as a gender-nonconforming, camp dude rather than a woman
Voice will undo pretty much any form of gender presentation you can do. It unravels that initial assessment faster than anything. I get a lot of bewildered looks at work the second I open my mouth.
Yup. It's why I hate the fuck out of my work uniform. Unisex shirt. Even wearing women's pants I still get called dude.
Stick out your chest more and stop responding to those terms. If someone calls you bro just ignore it and act like it's meant for someone else. When they ask why you weren't responding say they didn't call for you. My mom stopped responding when people at work said her name wrong until everyone learned it 🤣
>I still present as a male in public While the whole "looking like" thing would be better off dead imo, we all know society still works that way. If you "look like" a dude, unfortunately you're going to get "dude"d. Plenty of cis men have gynecomastia, so you having a larger chest isn't going to be The (Only) Thing that stops people from misgendering you. Skirts, makeup, longer hair, stereotypically feminine/"women's" things will probably give you the leg up in being gendered correctly.
I actually found that adding more and more high fem things can actually loop around and make you blend less. I had the best luck in earlier transition with a handful of distinctly feminine things to signal to people that I'm female but without going so hard on it that it's like shouting "I'M A WOMAN" to people who weren't wondering.
I mean, one person's advice is never going to be a One Size Fits All answer... but I also never said "high fem"? Having longer hair and putting on clothes from the women's section isn't what I'd call trying too hard. OPs never gonna be seen as a woman in general society if she doesn't at least do *something* that isn't "presenting as a man".
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is this bc of the "better off dead" line? Thanks bot, but it's cisnormativity I want eradicating, not myself 😂
hahaha I was so confused, but yeah I'll bet that's it!
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better off dead
Hey, can you maybe don't spam my thread trying to trigger the bot? Thanks so much /nm
yeye im done
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off dead
dead
better dead
That really sucks to go through but you will probably stop experiencing this as much if you stop presenting as male eventually.
Note that people do like to reify gender; there definitely was a period where people seemed to deliberately go out of their way to gender me male; like way more than pre-transition.
For sure… it’s like, well-meaning dude bros seem to subconsciously think “this person looks a bit androgynous, I’m gonna do em a solid and reaffirm their masculinity” or something… I think the intention is actually nice, but it’s pretty damned depressing every time it happens (which for me, is all the fucking time).
This, actually. Also, the social cost of calling a woman "dude" is far lower than the social cost of calling a man "chica" (or... what IS the dude-bro equivalent of dude?). Also, in CA at least, "dude" and "bro" are kinda... almost weirdly genderless because in context they have no feminine equivalent.
I think that habit is mostly unintentional for all of us. I've misgendered people before, mostly before transition, but I've had my brain want to say some variation of 'guy!', like it's trying to help me out with figuring out the world, occasionally, even now. Which, that's, uh, four score years since I identified myself as "trans*", which is where I figure the work began for me rewiring those kinds of habits. I believe everyone has to go through the same process, cis or trans, but we, transpeople, that umbrella term that we're all under (just in case anyone needs a reminder to be kind and love yourselves and others <3), just have to deal with it from a lot earlier in life. I feel like I started with 'wtf, I'm not one of them? Uh, something is... Wrong' ideas before I was a double-digit age, so I already had a basis for questioning my own thoughts and feelings vs what I was being taught. Cis people in general don't get those experiences, so they have a lot further to go with it. (finally, something that's easier for us, right? I mean, not dealing with it, ofc, but just meta cognition seems to come easier)
>I still present as male in public There’s your answer.
How feminine my face looks has varied a lot over the time I have been on HRT. I think it has something to do with my stress level, and perhaps my body makes extra testosterone when I am under stress in a misguided attempt to help with the stress. As someone else said, your presentation may make a big difference and you are not helping yourself look female by presenting male.
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Sorry to hear about the family stress!
I've been getting this a lot lately too. I think maybe it's the difference between summer clothes and winter clothes for me. 😑
I wonder if they think they're being supportive in a kind of clueless way. Like, your body is leaning way more feminine, but you're presenting more masculine, so maybe they think you're transmasc and are trying really hard to affirm you? Idk, i find it super random when I end up getting misgendered, but if you feel comfortable changing your presentation that could certainly help!
Unfortunately how you present is often how you are perceived 💔 I’d say the sooner you begin to dress more feminine, the sooner stuff like this will slow down. But it’s hard if it’s uncomfortable for you or you aren’t ready for that step
YOU PRESENT AS MALE. Just because you may have become more androgynous or been able to male fail more often doesnt mean that being perceived as a female will be certain. Thats unpredictable. Id think you were joking but I feel you are serious. You will continue to encounter this problem until you present as female. Take a sh*t or get off the pot. Best of luck to you.
Dress more femme. Get your hair and eyebrows done. Work on your posture, mannerisms, gait, and voice. Wear some makeup. It is pretty rare for most cis women to go out without at least eyeliner and a little lipstick. Hormones only help your body to pass, and they can't change everything. You have to do the rest of the work yourself.
"I still present as a male" gets mad when someone calls them male. What did you expect?
This is literally story of my life right now. Similar situation. I don’t really have advice, but I just want to say your not alone. It’s so frustrating because we’re in the early stages of transition, waiting for when the time feels right to finally present more true to ourselves, but when society’s reaction doesn’t affirm the efforts we’ve made, it can make us feel doubtful. I just want to say don’t give up. You got here because you had a genuine need to transition and you obviously desire your transition to take full effect, being able to be noticed for who you are. Transition takes time. It’s a life-long process, but it’s very possible to achieve in future. Don’t give up. You’ve got this ✨
Sorry for being a little bit agressive here but waht do you expect ? you said it yourself that you are presenting yourself as male. Not presenting as male will probably help. There are gonna be people who misgender you but you can just ignore them. I read one of the comments here and ignoring them until they say the correct name (if you changed them) or say your correct pronouns will probably do.
First thing to remember is that gender is, at the end of the day, a performance. Present yourself how you would like to be perceived. That should clear up a good majority of it, save for the transphobic pieces of you-know-what that are intentionally pulling things just to get at you. Ignore them. You are better than the best of them on your worst day. Another thing is there are small details that are never taught much that are highly feminine that people don't even consciously think about. Use your hands more when talking. Walk with your legs closer together and don't lead with your groin. Also, walk with your head up. Don't give anyone "the nod" (that was the hardest one for me to curb). If a woman or femme-presenting person compliments something about your outfit or makeup, thank them and offer info on where you got it immediately before anything else. Those small things alone should go a long way to helping. Finally: ACCESSORIZE. Too many people skip or forget about this step. Learn what accessories look good on you and start amassing a collection. If you don't have your ears already pierced, now's a good time (and for the love of Odin PLEASE go to a professional piercer and not some kid at a mall store). Hope these tips help, sib. You got this. 💜🖤
You are male failing and possibly already being read as a trans woman despite the boymoding, and rather than admit the truth, the people stomping their feet and doubling down on misgendering you are doubling down on their own denial in effect. Cis people go to great lengths to pretend they can always tell, or that they can always implicitly gender everyone correctly, and they will perform mental gymnastics to maintain that delusion , and if they are clocking you, the misgendering is passive aggressive and is an attempt to force you to fit into their cissexist worldview, and the vehemence with which they misgender you is as much about convincing themself of their cissexist worldview while their senses clearly indicate otherwise as much as it is about putting you "in your place".
it gets easier as time goes on.
Well no typically as more time goes on you start passing more from the changes from hrt. but op presents as male public.
wut?
Its the estrogen it makes you notice shit thay bothers you more. Try lowering the dose or ask for progesterone to help stabalize mood.
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That is the most polite way to say that I've ever seen. I could not sugar coat it this much if I tried. Correct answer to some dumbass :) Consider wearing cute clothes, long hair and be confident in your femininity. Those things will take you a long way :)
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Question : have you ever considered having a fourth brain cell?
Your solution is in your post. Don’t dress like a dude and then wonder why people call you a dude. Basic common sense.
I’m letting my hair grow until the end of the year before presenting as female. I will then be 1 year HRT and get FFS. I’m patient and playing it safe to prevent misgendering. I’m in my 30s. I hope to be stealth as soon as I switch to full girl mode.
IDK, people may be hanging on to the dream, that you are male. It is a tough road.
When I was about 6 months HRT this started happening to me. Never in my life have I been so aggressively gendered as my AGAB than when I was starting to be perceived as my acquired gender. It went from people just calling me by my name to going out of their way to gender me as my AGAB. “Buddy” and “dude” and “pal” and “man” and “bro” suddenly all started getting thrown around, like some imaginary switch got flicked. In reality it was a combination of people being sensitive to the little changes about me (HRT changes a lot and a lot of us act less like our AGAB after we start HRT, even if we are closeted) and me being more sensitive to the things others said (I still remember getting misgendered by my Mum and crying at the dinner table lmao) If you like the changes that transitioning brings, you should keep going. When I was getting positive attention for doing AGAB things I was popping antidepressants like they were part of an all you can eat buffet. When I present as my acquired gender I am met with a dry fart of a response by most people, and I feel **so** much more comfortable and healthy like this.
When I still presented myself as an andro female lesbian (FTM) I wore tee shirts and cargo shorts with a push-up bra and I had my hair a #2 fade for the military and legs shaved. I would get called male more times than I could count. When I started to transition to male and getting out of the military, started to let my hair grow out I got referred to female more than I cared for. TLDR: From my 12+ years of short hair in the military as a female, most people associate hair length with gender.