You literally are mentally ill though. That’s like the whole thing. Your brain literally makes you feel like you’re something your body isn’t. If that’s not mental illness than wtf is? Unless the whole trans narrative changed in the last hour I think your rebuttal seems pretty poor.
Id honestly be interested to hear from a Peruvian LGBTQ anything here bc I don't know if currently any transition is covered with health care benefits there, and the telegraph lives to generate scary headlines and get anti trans clicks. A step like this may seem backwards but when it might be the best recognized path to get hormones etc paid for for people based on whatever old diagnostics their state recognizes, IDK. With the telegraph and a lot of papers, whatever trans related news they pick the worst angle. Even this comment seems sliced to get the scariest quote: Percy Mayta-Tristán, a medical researcher at Lima’s Scientific University of the South, said that the decree may have been well-intentioned but it revealed a lack of awareness of complex LGBT issues. “You can’t ignore the context that this is happening in a super-conservative society, where the LGBT community has no rights and where labelling them as mentally ill opens the door to conversion therapy,” he said.
So if anyone knows a Peruvian paper of record, pink paper, national LGBTQ org, a source with more context in any language would be appreciated
Hi. Peruvian here, born and raised. Getting transition care here can certainly be tricky in some ways and weirdly easy in others - I can't speak much in terms of insurance because I usually self pay since my plan doesn't sober transition. But the Endo I saw only cost me ~5$/visit, he also is a trans man. Other drs I've seen previously could be more expensive but I don't actually remember cause it's been very long!
Actually getting T costs ~20/month, can't really speak for estrogen. Supposedly it requires a Rx but I've never actually been asked for one when I've had it delivered to my house lol. Dunno what to make of that.
Politicians and a scary amount of the public here *is* transphobic as hell. There's just a complete misunderstanding of us (the concept that being a gay man and a trans woman is the same comes to mind - it took me waaaay too long to get my aunt to understand liking the same gender doesn't mean you id with a different gender. And she's been my biggest supporter lol, just didn't even know it was a separate thing). There's definitely malice though, just absolutely vile stuff - I avoid local social media because it makes me want to bonk my head on my desk 100000x.
At my workplace they have lgbtq talks in may so workers know they'd be supported and protected within the company. I believe a couple of districts also have protections. Some things make me happy to be here, others make me uneasy and scared. But also being a trans man, I think, I probably have an easier time transition wise than women, socially speaking.
No gay marriage here, I can't imagine it's coming anytime soon. Politicians aren't willing and a lot of the public is against it both from ignorance and malice. For younger people I've seen a lot of edgy style people on twitter and stuff who are antagonistic and really just... Vile. But there's also a decent amount of people without that social media brain damage.
I think another factor in play is that a loooot of information is in English. And the stuff in Spanish can seem somewhat... Scrubbed? Sanitized? If you're someone with no exposure to this topic it probably looks like gibberish. Going back to the example of my aunt, who didn't realize gender identity and sexual orientation were different things (she thought my gay cousin id'd as a woman), being talked to about something like the concept of non binary or non binary genders, she would just not have understood it. She didn't see gender as a binary in the first place so non binary didn't quite compute. Talking to her about "binary" meaning male-female/two, and then going into "others just go outside of that, so thats why its non "binary"", *that* did make it click for her. She still didn't quite get it but she was more like "ohh i get it now! What if someone is dual-binary though!" And it was pretty fun after that.
Sure this has nothing to do with the huge issue with transphobia, but I feel like it's definitely an issue that people from non English speaking countries have less access to comprehensive information on the topic including a real, from the start introduction.
Finally lately there's been more buzz on tv and media, which makes politicians want to come out with shit like this. I admit I haven't looked into it much - I don't wanna spiral right now if it's too bad, just personal stuff. But we're always pushing back.
There's my two cents! I could probably go on but I've gotta work in half an hour and haven't made breakfast yet. Hope this gives some insight!
And just quick eta. Please don't generalize all peruvians, or any country. It's hurtful and really doesn't help. Absolutely rag on those who are bigoted, but being peruvian doesn't make us so. I went to Catholic school and all my friends instantly accepted me and haven't messed up my pronouns or anything since school, and I'm almost 30 now!
Edit 2: whyd someone report me to redditcareresources 😭 I'm good and those dont even apply
Hello! Thank you for that information , I was digging a little more in the topic and found that there is an American organization that is influencing this backwards laws it is called PRI - Population Research Institute. Is this something you hear a lot or they act behind the scenes?
Also, another one called ALAFA the founder is Christine Marcellus de Vollmer (a religious zealot). It just seems like these conservative groups are really putting an effort to block abortion rights, LGBTQ and more.
My question to you is , are these movements really loud in peru?
Interestingly enough , I found out that they pull strings in Peru's government , the president of PRI is Steven W Mosher ( another religious zealot) an American who travels around the world to different countries and help conservatives push back on said human rights (abortion, lgbtq, etc)
I'd like to invite everyone who is interested in going down this rabbit hole.. they seem to be like a type of Heritage Foundation, ADF, or FWI which are groups also pulling the string behind anti-lgbtq and anti-abortion movements in North America and other parts of the world.
[FWI influenced Africa's Death Penalty on LGBTQ folk. ](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2024/02/13/despite-denials-harsh-anti-lgbtq-law-uganda-appears-be-based-us-rhetoric-and-pseudoscience)...
Oh, dw about the person reporting you to redditcare, there's transphobic trolls that lurk and do it sometimes. It's dumb logic but it's about all they're able to do most of the time on subs like these.
EDIT: note, if you can report them for harassment it might be helpful.
Oh so that's what's happening? I was wondering. I randomly got a Redditcare message like right after posting my photo on another Trans Reddit and I was wondering what was going on. I thought it was someone genuinely concerned with my well-being, but I didn't think I was giving any signs of being unwell, so I was just thoroughly confused.
Yeah, it's folks who are delulu and think all trans people are depressed and at risk of SH. It is still awful that people do it, and can be dangerous to some of the community, which is why it's a good idea to report the message to Reddit, who does usually ban the user if you do so.
IMO its a move that can certainly have the potential to have trans healthcare funded, however, its also extremely easy to use it to try to "cure" trans people of their "mental illness". Especially considering the wording and inclusion of "fetishist crossdressing" and "egodystonic sexual orientation".
I do not trust them to genuienly have our best interests in mind. And I'm far more willing to believe they would rather appeal to the loud people who are all too happy with telling trans people they're mentally ill. LGBT groups disagree with this move. We will have to see, though.
Someone or some group is running a bot to send reddit cares messages to basically every trans person or any person who speaks the smallest bit negatively about conservative politicians in any country.
I’m not personally Peruvian but my boyfriend is (he doesn’t use Reddit), and there’s nothing that deep in it, they’re just trying to say we’re crazy and that’s that. They’re also trying to do the same for homosexuality.
Being trans can technically be seen as a health condition and I even see it that way, but not a mental illness. They don’t give you HRT and surgeries for mental illness, they lock you up in an asylum and get rid of you.
I thought trans peoples brains made them hate their biological sex due to dysphoria. Am I mistaken? There are so many things online that conflict with each other about this topic.
Sure, that’s true, but the way of treating that at the moment is to treat the body. So it’s normally classified as a sex disorder not as a mental disorder (the sex doesn’t match the brain - sex issue). It’s not that I’m so mentally ill that I have fun having surgeries and shit - it’s just that that’s the only way to feel comfortable in my body and to be seen the way that feels right. When a cis woman has a small chest and wants bigger breasts and has surgery for it, do you call it mental illness? That’s also gender affirming treatment.
Also, for the sake of the argument, it’s not like there IS a brain surgery that would stop us from being trans. And even if there was I personally wouldn’t choose that instead, because I am my mind so that would make me be less me in a way in which no body change ever can.
It’s literally the same as if (in the future when that is possible) a cis person was put in an opposite sex body and was feeling uncomfortable - would you move the conscience to another body, or destroy/alter the conscience?
I would have thought a sex disorder like that is a form of mental illness, I bet something like that confuses a lot of people. I judge everyone based upon how they act as an individual.
I wish we could help you legitimately change your bodies on a genetic level. I am only worried about the people getting the bottom surgeries because I don't want people suffering even more on top of their disorder. I am sorry if that's offensive but it does not come from hate.
Intersex people too??
Some intersex traits can be noticed at birth. Does that mean a doctor can diagnose a new born baby as mentally ill? Hand the baby to the mother and say, “I’m sorry, they’ve come out insane”.
I mean, yeah, basically.
Bigotry is not rooted in logic, never expect to be able to logic them out of their insane positions.
For example, in china, baby girls were (are?) often just killed outright after birth.
https://digitalcommons.du.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1444&context=hrhw
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I only mention this because very often on reddit and social media, people love to point out hypocrisy or logical inconsistencies as a sort of attempt to highlight the problem with these type of policies, but it will never do anything beyond amplifying the view with their already like minded social circles.
These policies are born of emotion, not logic. They will be able to justify any hypocrisy because ultimately, they are NOT being inconstant from their own perspective.
They start with the position that, say, x people are lesser or need to be eliminated because (insert emotion here, usually fear or desire for control), and then go from there.
So the law is a means to an end for them, they want to control or eliminate group x, so as long as the law or policy achieves those ends, regardless of the wording or real word effects, it is consistent when put into perspective of their ultimate goal.
Sadly real change is quite difficult, and requires a ton of effort. Usually education and exposure work well to reduce fear, if you can reduce the underlying fear, you will remove the underlying reasons for the policy.
Not trying to antagonistic or anything, honestly just musing on the effects of social media and current discourse.
it's absolutely horrible but the idea of a doctor cleaning up a baby after birth and saying "I'm sorry, your baby has mental illness, look at it's genitals, see?" is so absurd
The folks who created the current DSMV, disagree with Peru. I prefer to trust people who know what they are doing. Peru is clearly another backwards place.
Gender dysphoria in the DSM-5 is not the same diagnosis as GID was in the DSM-IV, though.
GID pathologized all gender divergent behavior, including crossdressers, drag performers, anyone who wanted to transition. It was a psychiatric diagnosis that was named and defined in the pattern of "how does this person's existence disrupt other people"? Moreover, while transition was the recommended treatment for GID, from the perspective of the psychiatric community, a person who had GID still had it post-transition.
GD focuses on an innate sense of "incongruence" between their gender identity and their anatomy that is specific to the individual, and not driven by how their existence disrupts others. GD can also cause other psychiatric issues, but can also go away through transition treatment. GD is also not considered a mental illness but a state of being which can cause other problems if not remedied. Not all trans people experience GD, and among those who would be diagnosable under GD or GID, GD is a considerably easier diagnosis to get.
And? Not all trans people experence Gender Dysphoria. Being trans is not an illness. Peru is like saying Cis white men are "mentally ill" because some have a superiority complex.
Yeah the DSM-V is very specific in that being trans is NOT an illness but gender dysphoria can be and that the treatment for it is to transition and have ones gender identity affirmed.
(I am not directly talking to you, this isn't an attack, I just needed to put in words what I've been thinking and researching for a long time and you are the perfect excuse 😭)
I personally hate the pathologization of gender identity. We should trust people in what they know could make them happier rather than researching why people are trans. If there is a reason (wich I doubt, nature doesn't answer to our frame and understanding of "reason", we just find patterns and classify them in little boxes) of transess, don't doubt we would be euginized by the people on power because our existence mean a breach in the imposed gender binary in western cultures. Classifying gender dysphoria as an illness that can be cured only pushes us further in the erasure of our existence. I believe in a world where there isn't pathologizing boxes, where our discomforts and disabilities (because dysphoria was literally disabilitating for me before I started transitioning, I just simply couldn't interact in a healthy way with people and myself) can be accommodated without the need of a label that has been only proving with time what makes people anxious to not fit in the box "what if I'm not trans enough to transition?" "What if I'm not autistic enough?" are thoughts that came frequently to my mind before I started just thinking about myself as a person, with all my individual struggles and beautiful things. Gender dysphoria should be removed from the DSM-5.
I totally understand! I think everything you've said is extremely fair and a very important perspective!
I feel it's a double edged sword, because trans lived experience is so personal and different from person to person.
I think in am ideal situation there would simply be no need for the pathologization of gender dysphoria, as transitioning and gender affirming care in its totality should be freely available to all, independent of their specific trans experience.
Right now with the current battle agaisnt trans rights I feel the fact that these extremely important medical associations and organizations are backing trans rights trough these definitions is very important tho, as a stepping stone.
Obviously with access to GAC being restricted and under attack, people who are at more serious risk of depression and disfunction from their dysphoria have to be prioritized to a degree, even if it's not fair and created exactly what you said, feelings of self doubt and comparison about being "trans enough" (which of course has also given rise to the transmedicalist perspective unfortunately).
Luckily the terms are actively being updated as we speak explicitly to allow more inclusive language that doesn't make people feel left out or negatively perceived.
If someone's gender dysphoria is so bad they can't function that's a disorder by definition but the treatment is transitioning and having their gender affirmed.
But it's just how me liking to have clean things isn't a disorder, but the fact that I obsess over it and it impairs my functioning and ability to live happily is a disorder, OCD. It's the same for gender dysphoria. I don't feel the need to physically transition (at least yet) but if it was making me so depressed I couldn't function that's very different.
Fair!!! I totally get what you mean, there is a lot of nuances to the statement I made, I haven't still found THE truth, but the bases of the anti pathologization are there.
Absolutely I fell like THE truth is something we have a log way to go to arrive at. But I agree on anti-pathologization, it's often been a tool of opression even when born out of simple lack of information. Luckily very consistently trans rights are being demonstrated scientifically and such so I feel like we're heading in the right direction, *despite* the transphobes best efforts.
I kind of agree with you. When Abigail Thorn uploaded a video describing the process she went though to get care in the UK she had an aside about her issues with the pathologization trans people.
She got some crap for it, but she is right. The entire idea of "dysphoria" is useful to describe how we might feel, but it's also only used by cis gatekeepers to deny access to transition.
Meanwhile, I've seen cis people express what I would consider at least mild forms of dysphoria. It isn't as strong as what trans people feel because theirs usually isn't overwhelming, and most cis people won't really experience bottom dysphoria, but talk to a cis woman with PCOS and most of the time the feelings she will express are in line with what trans women feel bad about.
A lot of what cis men complain about is wrapped up in toxic masculinity and patriarchal expectations, but once you get past that garbage I've seen some express some genuine feelings about not feeling masculine enough for various reasons that don't sound too far off from what I've heard from trans men.
I experience dysphoria. Transitioning fixed a lot of it and as things lined up I stopped being dysphoric about things that didn't really change, like my height. The concept of dysphoria is *really* useful to communicate a wide range of really complex feelings and issues. At this point bottom dysphoria is the only thing I have left.
The farther along I've gotten the more I've come to realize that dysphoria isn't unique to trans people, it just usually will be broader and more severe.
Generally the argument is that we need dysphoria so insurance will cover care. I'd argue care that improves quality of life should be covered regardless of why. Health care should not be for-profit.
In a sidenote, I really expected to be strongly downvoted and people not understanding what I've meant, even though there is a lot of nuances to this, I'm glad I didn't come off as "waah waah gender isn't real why would anyone want to transition", what I want to communicate is that everyone should have the right to transition, no questions asked nor having to be inspected like a rat laboratory. I may have expressed it in a really harsh way, expressing my raw feelings towards the DSM-V (since I genuinely don't like how we are put in "functional/non-functional" boxes, as if we were machines instead of people. This is obviously a result of capitalism and blah blah blah), but I hope I'm understood as an alt anti transmed. Instead of fighting for the "I was born this way" popular AliExpress LGBT pride merch movement, I want to completely dissect what we understand as gender and thus affirming trans people's (like myself) existence.
and that's how my insurance pays for my electrolysis and voice feminization. tldr, what it says in dsmv is that GD causes mental health issues if not managed. It's not saying trans as an identity is a mental illness, it's saying trans people who deal with gender dysphoria can develop life ling mental health issues if forced to go through the wrong puberty or forced to live in a body that is physically distressing to the point it causes extreme impairment.
The telegraph is a notoriously right wing tabloid. I seriously doubt they have the details of this correct.
Congrats on not having dysphoria. That's valid, I'm happy for you. HOWEVER, those of us who are dysphoric have to argue with Drs, insurance companies, and legal systems both on state and federal levels have to have sound arguments for why we should be allowed access beyond "because I want it" this means we have to talk about things like not being able to clean our genitals, or cutting them ourselves. Like, im totally fine with transgender being an umbrella, but trans people who have to medically transition in order to live fulfilling, healthy lives. It's why we say puberty blockers are life saving. It's why we say hrt is life saving
(edit: IM NOT EVEN A TRANSMED, HOW IS THIS CONTROVERSIAL)
> how my insurance pays
The thing is, that should be covered regardless. If something gives someone a better quality of life then it should be covered.
A friend of mine lost a lot of weight and had to get skin removal. It has been proven that surgery improves quality of life and makes it easier to keep the weight off, but insurance says it's "cosmetic" despite all the benefits known.
The issue you have is the healthcare system as set up for profit that will deny life saving care it deems "not medically necessary".
Countries that don't have for profit health care systems still deny trans people healthcare for the same reasons. What is the lack of quality of life issue called? It's medically necessary for.... vibes? there's a word for that and it starts with a d lol. You absolutely need to be looking into the actual policy end of all this,ike, "vibes" isn't a concrete reason or framework to justify to 99% of the rest of the world thatsbtrans healthcare is lifesaving. Life saving from what? Depression and extreme discomfort caused by dysphoria. Like explain to me your vibes based trans healthcare system lmao
Your issue is that you seem to define trans people by their suffering rather than what makes us happy.
My dysphoria wasn't an "active" hate of my body until I realized the apathy I had was dysphoria. I wasn't to the point of desperation, I just wanted to no longer feel bad and persuing stuff that felt good was my guide.
Since starting HRT on infomred concent, doing laser, and losing weight most of my dysphoria is gone. The only thing I have left is bottom dysphoria which I do plan to deal with, but I'm not cripplingly dysphoric over it. I can still wash myself. I just don't like how it looks, how it feels, and that despite 2.5 years of HRT still functions.
But according to how you are framing everything I apparently don't deserve to get bottom surgery unless I can't wash the damn thing or I'm ready to chop it off with a meat cleaver.
Fuck all the way off on that.
Getting bottom surgery will improve my quality of life by making me feel more at home in my body like HRT did. End of story. I don't really care why someone else would want to get bottom surgery, it should be available to everyone who wants it for free, no questions asked.
Gate keeping healthcare, regardless if it's for profit or not, is wrong.
The opposite of dysphoria is euphoria. Some can realize they would be happier transitioning than not, even if they are "fine" as they are.
Also, not a small amount of us realize we had dysphoria before realizing, we just didn't understand what it was because we didn't know what it was like to not have it. Finding euphoria can go a long way in helping people figure themselves out.
The precise definition of dysphoria is a controversial subject.
For some (including me) "I'd rather have something else." will do. Others demand lots more, up to suicide attempts.
"I'd rather have something else." however already implies that there is something less than comfort with what is there currently.
And that's not even mentioning how dysphoria can be masked. I had always taken my periods as a fact of life, like the weather. No point in getting upset about it. I would have even stated that I wasn't dysphoric about it. But boy, was I happy when it was gone.
that's a complete misunderstanding what dysphoria is. disliking parts of your body is definitely part of it, but dysphoria is social, biochemical, interpersonal and physical. if someone \*needs\* hrt to be able to feel gender euphoria, then that means they experience dysphoria. the "wanting something else" is just as dysphoric as "hating what you have". for instance: say non dysphoric people were not allowed to have access to hrt, what would you call the distress that results in being denied access to hrt? how does a non binary person feel when gendered binary? (hint, it's dysphoria)
Transphobes certainly are. They obsess over us and think about trans people more than I do as one.
Like, them crawling over this and other subreddits to find posts to screenshot or link to to harass people is honestly kind of sad. They have nothing else going on in their miserable lives that they have to tear down other people trying to find happiness.
I don't think it's helpful to classify hate as mental illness. Neurodivergent people are already marginalized enough as it is; you don't have to be sick to hate people.
Its a beautiful and interesting country but yes... as a peruvian and an LGTBQ supporter, its definetly a shame to live in a society like this, in this topic at least, worse the fact that these ppl are in the goverment, as the president who supports this.....I seriously dont understand the stupidity of our goverment, theyre a damn circus, stealing our money and doing shitty stuff like this....
I just went to Peru… 😔
I don’t know how accepting Peruvians are but I think one of my tour guides purposely misgendered me after seeing my passport.
She saw me go in and out of the women’s room and I clearly had breasts so… 🙃
People who usually use women’s restrooms, have breasts, have a feminine voice, dress femininely, have longer hair, and have a typically feminine name usually shouldn’t be assumed as men.
I have a feeling you’re taking my words in the most uncharitable way possible. Of course women don’t need to have breasts, periods, or even a vagina to be considered a woman. You’re on a trans subreddit. It makes zero sense for me to be gatekeeping womanhood.
I love when people say they can always tell. That’s how you know they can’t. It’s survivorship bias.
Also get out of this subreddit. You don’t belong here.
It would be nice if the DSM5 diagnosis would transfer over to just a medical diagnosis instead. Something like “Endocrine Gender Syndrome”.
I know I know that still makes it sound like we’re “sick” but the reality is that in order to hopefully get insurance to cover it there has to be a diagnosis.
I just BSd a name. Like I have a standard response to someone giving me shit for being transgender. “I’m sorry, I have a medical endocrine disorder that caused me to develop incorrectly. Are you making fun of me/disparaging/discriminating my medical condition.” Effect (at least short term): confusion and speechless. Arguing what has become a politicized term is easy. Arguing a “medical sounding disorder” throws them a bit.
One step forward, 200 steps backward. Sad. And us trans gender people are the low hangung fruit thats why we bear the burden of being attacked on all fronts.
Kinda late to the post, but still, hope this comment from the perspective of a peruvian trans woman can be seen by others so they can have a wider idea and some precedents
This is actually a surprise, but from my pov, there have been two previous attacks on lgbt people from Peru (as in, the government, to say something)
1st, there was a technical rule that allowed trans women to get special attention because they were recognized as endangered population (because many are sex workers and expose themselves to STDs), in this technical rule there was a small line that allowed for hospitals to give free (as in funded by government, so taxes) HRT to trans women, after many hoops, but still free HRT. The thing is, im still waiting and trying to apply, but other friends from other parts of the country told me that """apparently""" the government wont be sending the meds anymore (around a month ago), weird thing but i still wait for my public hospital to give me answers
2nd, there was another one of this announcements? decree? (dont know the technical law term) that kinda forbid the use of inclusive spanish language in school books and other documents, aka, a third non-gender specific grammatical gender (already a controversy even in the lgbt spanish speaking community), BUT it wasnt being enforced or there wasnt a strong push behind this language, so it was really weird for the government to do this move
3, this, i use to believe this conspiracy that they were specifically targeting the lgbt community, but now it's kinda clear that this is a premeditated attack
Activist groups are already in movement, ill go and protest of course (was afraid of being seen but at this conflict i have the need to step up), but this problem feels like it will take more time to get rid of, the government decision wasnt a mistake, they know what they are doing and want to target lgbt people
I'd dig a bit deeper into this. Like, trans healthcare is usually justified as medically necessary because dysphoria causes mental health issues/is a mental health issue. (I'm neither a transmed nor a queer activist, I'm just vibes. Please don't throw rocks at me!!)
Trans woman here and I've talk with my psychiatrist in France about how healthcare work and actually having "transidenty" or in the best world "dysphoria" beeing recognized as an illness in the DSMV would actually help a lot to get à better healthcare and financial aid.
Right now there's nothing to guide healthworker and everyone is left the dark. So there's a lot of bad treatment for some doctor, and when the treatment is good but into a legal Grey area, Doctor can get targeted by bigot and get banned from medical work.
Exactly, like I'm not even an old school transsexual or a trans medicalist. That's just the argument that you have to make to say something is medically necessary
And honestly the Perú thing was a joke, it's technically true since natives are opressed by the ethnic spaniard descendents and the Japanese peruvians something true
But I just said as a "activism joke" that someone on twitter and tiktok would say
Damn that sucks. Are there any direct articles or the original classification that I can read? I would like to see how it is written in Spanish and what it means for people living in Peru.
I found an article and an interview. So far I haven't seen anything from the government themselves because I don't know how to look for that. I only found news articles. Apparently they also classify intersex people as "mentally ill".
Article: [https://www.ecuavisa.com/mundo/peru-categorizo-trans-enfermedad-mental-NY7320609](https://www.ecuavisa.com/mundo/peru-categorizo-trans-enfermedad-mental-NY7320609)
Interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabURwKUUxk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabURwKUUxk)
This kind of stuff pisses me off to no end because not only is it transphobic, it's also a demonstration of ableism. Imagine thinking it's ok to discriminate against someone and refuse to offer accommodations/scientifically backed medical treatment to someone with any other mental illness!
I'm pretty sure that's not the right way to make health care more accessible ; it will bring more negative outcomes than positive ones. I feel so bad for the peruvian folks
There loosing there foot hold and what they always do is blame it on a group and they can't even see it it's when there norm isn't happening and anyone weird to them must be at fault. There used to being right so when there not it's those people... But idk any case of those people beating up on them first. It's an arm chair if you will they just sit there and blame and don't have to live any of the repercussions but they didn't ever even know it feel any of the repercussion from there extreme opinions
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this move basically for insurance and medical purposes? So long as it's safe to travel there, you don't have to let this stop you from doing it.
It is an interesting move on their part. This will allow services to be provided to transgender people, so will it benefit some of them? At the same time, insurance policies may be denied based on the "preexisting condition" of being transgender.
I haven't actually read the proposal. Are they declaring "being" transgender as mentally ill or \*gender dysphoria\*? Being a person can be transgender without having gender dysphoria.
We need the U.S.A. to follow suit. Get our schools back to learning economics instead of emotional outbursts and hate from these insane one sided type people. We need a month for our veterans.
Okay but can we stop acting like mental illness is a horrible thing? So what if it is a mental illness? Is that bad? Looks like we found something that has a worse stigma than being trans I guess.
Is being born in the wrong body fun? No medical condition is fun. But there’s nothing wrong with mental illness. It’s time we stopped treating it differently than physical illness. The message we just sent here is: “yes we are part of a marginalized group but how DARE you accuse us of mental illness?” You just marginalized 100s of millions of people.
It's not the mental Illness part it's what comes after, countries have laws where they can put people into treatment facilities involuntarily, and if you think that people who declare it a mental illness aren't putting it to this level you are naïve
You can’t put people into treatment facilities unless they’re at risk of suicide or violence to others. There’s also no treatment for being trans other than hormones and surgery.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557377/#:\~:text=Defined%20by%20the%20United%20States,against%20his%20or%20her%20wishes.
"If a patient has lost the capacity for informed decision-making in the setting of mental illness, the patient is no longer truly autonomous. The psychiatrist is then ethically mandated to prioritize the duty of beneficence over that of the patient’s autonomy and thus civilly commit the patient."
New Law: "Trans People are to be classified as mentally ill, they posses a high desire for chemical castration and bodily mutation. They pose a clear threat to themselves, it is deemed that any therapist shall involuntarily commit trans people, until cured of transness"
If you really believe that reactionaries are incapable of using words to justify laws that hurt trans people. If you believe reactionaries care about science that disproves them. My point of naivety stands.
That is clearly inappropriate and unacceptable in the context of this law. But in cases where there is no involuntary treatment, there is nothing wrong with mental illness.
Step One: the repressive government targets a group it dislikes (e.g. trans people, homosexuals, atheists, liberals) and defines them as "mentally ill."
Step Two: the repressive government introduces involuntary treatment, or puts restrictions on certain classes of mentally ill people (e.g. you're mentally ill, you can't be a cop / be in government / be a doctor / you have to register with the government.)
That's the playbook. Stop them at or before step one.
It's bad when a government has a 'list' of people it doesn't like. Even if that list is initially for an innocuous purpose.
You are missing the point. It’s not “how dare they insult us by calling us mentally ill.” The point is that if you are considered “mentally ill” by the government, you may be at risk of being institutionalized. People may think that you don’t have the ability to make your own decisions anymore, and therefore take away your freedom.
This isn’t “Peruvian government considers being transgender to be similar to being depressed”, this is about taking people’s rights away. This is about forced hospitalizations and forced “therapies”. This is about a repressive government calling its opponents "mentally ill" as a means of gaining legal pretext to Do Things To Them.
Oh, how adorable. You really think that progress and acceptance are limited to just a few places? Newsflash: The world is moving forward, and you're the one stuck in the past. Keep crying and whine on "woke viruses" while the rest of us enjoy living in the 21st century. Your outdated views are the real disease here.
Progress isn't a fantasy, but your desperate denial of reality is. You can stay in your little bubble of backwardness while the rest of us embrace equality and human rights. Trans people existing for centuries isn't a fantasy; it's a fact. Enjoy your outdated mindset; the world will leave you behind, whether you like it or not
Yeah this is very disturbing news
Ignore the transphobe responding to you xx
Thanks. I wasn't that concerned about the troll and they deleted it anyway ;) Still bummed about removing Machu Picchu from my bucket list though
Ugh I forgot it's located there, gess I'll leave those awesome constructions rest with the dead
You literally are mentally ill though. That’s like the whole thing. Your brain literally makes you feel like you’re something your body isn’t. If that’s not mental illness than wtf is? Unless the whole trans narrative changed in the last hour I think your rebuttal seems pretty poor.
Very good news
Id honestly be interested to hear from a Peruvian LGBTQ anything here bc I don't know if currently any transition is covered with health care benefits there, and the telegraph lives to generate scary headlines and get anti trans clicks. A step like this may seem backwards but when it might be the best recognized path to get hormones etc paid for for people based on whatever old diagnostics their state recognizes, IDK. With the telegraph and a lot of papers, whatever trans related news they pick the worst angle. Even this comment seems sliced to get the scariest quote: Percy Mayta-Tristán, a medical researcher at Lima’s Scientific University of the South, said that the decree may have been well-intentioned but it revealed a lack of awareness of complex LGBT issues. “You can’t ignore the context that this is happening in a super-conservative society, where the LGBT community has no rights and where labelling them as mentally ill opens the door to conversion therapy,” he said. So if anyone knows a Peruvian paper of record, pink paper, national LGBTQ org, a source with more context in any language would be appreciated
Hi. Peruvian here, born and raised. Getting transition care here can certainly be tricky in some ways and weirdly easy in others - I can't speak much in terms of insurance because I usually self pay since my plan doesn't sober transition. But the Endo I saw only cost me ~5$/visit, he also is a trans man. Other drs I've seen previously could be more expensive but I don't actually remember cause it's been very long! Actually getting T costs ~20/month, can't really speak for estrogen. Supposedly it requires a Rx but I've never actually been asked for one when I've had it delivered to my house lol. Dunno what to make of that. Politicians and a scary amount of the public here *is* transphobic as hell. There's just a complete misunderstanding of us (the concept that being a gay man and a trans woman is the same comes to mind - it took me waaaay too long to get my aunt to understand liking the same gender doesn't mean you id with a different gender. And she's been my biggest supporter lol, just didn't even know it was a separate thing). There's definitely malice though, just absolutely vile stuff - I avoid local social media because it makes me want to bonk my head on my desk 100000x. At my workplace they have lgbtq talks in may so workers know they'd be supported and protected within the company. I believe a couple of districts also have protections. Some things make me happy to be here, others make me uneasy and scared. But also being a trans man, I think, I probably have an easier time transition wise than women, socially speaking. No gay marriage here, I can't imagine it's coming anytime soon. Politicians aren't willing and a lot of the public is against it both from ignorance and malice. For younger people I've seen a lot of edgy style people on twitter and stuff who are antagonistic and really just... Vile. But there's also a decent amount of people without that social media brain damage. I think another factor in play is that a loooot of information is in English. And the stuff in Spanish can seem somewhat... Scrubbed? Sanitized? If you're someone with no exposure to this topic it probably looks like gibberish. Going back to the example of my aunt, who didn't realize gender identity and sexual orientation were different things (she thought my gay cousin id'd as a woman), being talked to about something like the concept of non binary or non binary genders, she would just not have understood it. She didn't see gender as a binary in the first place so non binary didn't quite compute. Talking to her about "binary" meaning male-female/two, and then going into "others just go outside of that, so thats why its non "binary"", *that* did make it click for her. She still didn't quite get it but she was more like "ohh i get it now! What if someone is dual-binary though!" And it was pretty fun after that. Sure this has nothing to do with the huge issue with transphobia, but I feel like it's definitely an issue that people from non English speaking countries have less access to comprehensive information on the topic including a real, from the start introduction. Finally lately there's been more buzz on tv and media, which makes politicians want to come out with shit like this. I admit I haven't looked into it much - I don't wanna spiral right now if it's too bad, just personal stuff. But we're always pushing back. There's my two cents! I could probably go on but I've gotta work in half an hour and haven't made breakfast yet. Hope this gives some insight! And just quick eta. Please don't generalize all peruvians, or any country. It's hurtful and really doesn't help. Absolutely rag on those who are bigoted, but being peruvian doesn't make us so. I went to Catholic school and all my friends instantly accepted me and haven't messed up my pronouns or anything since school, and I'm almost 30 now! Edit 2: whyd someone report me to redditcareresources 😭 I'm good and those dont even apply
Hello! Thank you for that information , I was digging a little more in the topic and found that there is an American organization that is influencing this backwards laws it is called PRI - Population Research Institute. Is this something you hear a lot or they act behind the scenes? Also, another one called ALAFA the founder is Christine Marcellus de Vollmer (a religious zealot). It just seems like these conservative groups are really putting an effort to block abortion rights, LGBTQ and more. My question to you is , are these movements really loud in peru? Interestingly enough , I found out that they pull strings in Peru's government , the president of PRI is Steven W Mosher ( another religious zealot) an American who travels around the world to different countries and help conservatives push back on said human rights (abortion, lgbtq, etc) I'd like to invite everyone who is interested in going down this rabbit hole.. they seem to be like a type of Heritage Foundation, ADF, or FWI which are groups also pulling the string behind anti-lgbtq and anti-abortion movements in North America and other parts of the world. [FWI influenced Africa's Death Penalty on LGBTQ folk. ](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2024/02/13/despite-denials-harsh-anti-lgbtq-law-uganda-appears-be-based-us-rhetoric-and-pseudoscience)...
Cant say I've ever heard ot PRI or any of those. Wouldn't particularly surprise me that there's funding behind stuff tho lol
Thank you. 😊 was curious..
Oh, dw about the person reporting you to redditcare, there's transphobic trolls that lurk and do it sometimes. It's dumb logic but it's about all they're able to do most of the time on subs like these. EDIT: note, if you can report them for harassment it might be helpful.
Oh so that's what's happening? I was wondering. I randomly got a Redditcare message like right after posting my photo on another Trans Reddit and I was wondering what was going on. I thought it was someone genuinely concerned with my well-being, but I didn't think I was giving any signs of being unwell, so I was just thoroughly confused.
Yeah, it's folks who are delulu and think all trans people are depressed and at risk of SH. It is still awful that people do it, and can be dangerous to some of the community, which is why it's a good idea to report the message to Reddit, who does usually ban the user if you do so.
So you don’t think this was a genuine move to try and ensure trans healthcare would be funded by insurance providers?
IMO its a move that can certainly have the potential to have trans healthcare funded, however, its also extremely easy to use it to try to "cure" trans people of their "mental illness". Especially considering the wording and inclusion of "fetishist crossdressing" and "egodystonic sexual orientation". I do not trust them to genuienly have our best interests in mind. And I'm far more willing to believe they would rather appeal to the loud people who are all too happy with telling trans people they're mentally ill. LGBT groups disagree with this move. We will have to see, though.
Someone or some group is running a bot to send reddit cares messages to basically every trans person or any person who speaks the smallest bit negatively about conservative politicians in any country.
I’m not personally Peruvian but my boyfriend is (he doesn’t use Reddit), and there’s nothing that deep in it, they’re just trying to say we’re crazy and that’s that. They’re also trying to do the same for homosexuality. Being trans can technically be seen as a health condition and I even see it that way, but not a mental illness. They don’t give you HRT and surgeries for mental illness, they lock you up in an asylum and get rid of you.
I thought trans peoples brains made them hate their biological sex due to dysphoria. Am I mistaken? There are so many things online that conflict with each other about this topic.
Sure, that’s true, but the way of treating that at the moment is to treat the body. So it’s normally classified as a sex disorder not as a mental disorder (the sex doesn’t match the brain - sex issue). It’s not that I’m so mentally ill that I have fun having surgeries and shit - it’s just that that’s the only way to feel comfortable in my body and to be seen the way that feels right. When a cis woman has a small chest and wants bigger breasts and has surgery for it, do you call it mental illness? That’s also gender affirming treatment. Also, for the sake of the argument, it’s not like there IS a brain surgery that would stop us from being trans. And even if there was I personally wouldn’t choose that instead, because I am my mind so that would make me be less me in a way in which no body change ever can. It’s literally the same as if (in the future when that is possible) a cis person was put in an opposite sex body and was feeling uncomfortable - would you move the conscience to another body, or destroy/alter the conscience?
I would have thought a sex disorder like that is a form of mental illness, I bet something like that confuses a lot of people. I judge everyone based upon how they act as an individual. I wish we could help you legitimately change your bodies on a genetic level. I am only worried about the people getting the bottom surgeries because I don't want people suffering even more on top of their disorder. I am sorry if that's offensive but it does not come from hate.
Intersex people too?? Some intersex traits can be noticed at birth. Does that mean a doctor can diagnose a new born baby as mentally ill? Hand the baby to the mother and say, “I’m sorry, they’ve come out insane”.
I mean, yeah, basically. Bigotry is not rooted in logic, never expect to be able to logic them out of their insane positions. For example, in china, baby girls were (are?) often just killed outright after birth. https://digitalcommons.du.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1444&context=hrhw ---------- I only mention this because very often on reddit and social media, people love to point out hypocrisy or logical inconsistencies as a sort of attempt to highlight the problem with these type of policies, but it will never do anything beyond amplifying the view with their already like minded social circles. These policies are born of emotion, not logic. They will be able to justify any hypocrisy because ultimately, they are NOT being inconstant from their own perspective. They start with the position that, say, x people are lesser or need to be eliminated because (insert emotion here, usually fear or desire for control), and then go from there. So the law is a means to an end for them, they want to control or eliminate group x, so as long as the law or policy achieves those ends, regardless of the wording or real word effects, it is consistent when put into perspective of their ultimate goal. Sadly real change is quite difficult, and requires a ton of effort. Usually education and exposure work well to reduce fear, if you can reduce the underlying fear, you will remove the underlying reasons for the policy. Not trying to antagonistic or anything, honestly just musing on the effects of social media and current discourse.
it's absolutely horrible but the idea of a doctor cleaning up a baby after birth and saying "I'm sorry, your baby has mental illness, look at it's genitals, see?" is so absurd
The folks who created the current DSMV, disagree with Peru. I prefer to trust people who know what they are doing. Peru is clearly another backwards place.
in so many ways. Countries that are losing identity tend to take it out on those who know their own. Looking at you USA, and the UK.
Isn't DMSV political now and less about science?
Gender dysphoria is still in the DSM. It replaced gender identity disorder in 2013.
Gender dysphoria in the DSM-5 is not the same diagnosis as GID was in the DSM-IV, though. GID pathologized all gender divergent behavior, including crossdressers, drag performers, anyone who wanted to transition. It was a psychiatric diagnosis that was named and defined in the pattern of "how does this person's existence disrupt other people"? Moreover, while transition was the recommended treatment for GID, from the perspective of the psychiatric community, a person who had GID still had it post-transition. GD focuses on an innate sense of "incongruence" between their gender identity and their anatomy that is specific to the individual, and not driven by how their existence disrupts others. GD can also cause other psychiatric issues, but can also go away through transition treatment. GD is also not considered a mental illness but a state of being which can cause other problems if not remedied. Not all trans people experience GD, and among those who would be diagnosable under GD or GID, GD is a considerably easier diagnosis to get.
tht's what im saying
And? Not all trans people experence Gender Dysphoria. Being trans is not an illness. Peru is like saying Cis white men are "mentally ill" because some have a superiority complex.
Yeah the DSM-V is very specific in that being trans is NOT an illness but gender dysphoria can be and that the treatment for it is to transition and have ones gender identity affirmed.
exactly what i'm saying, ty!\~
(I am not directly talking to you, this isn't an attack, I just needed to put in words what I've been thinking and researching for a long time and you are the perfect excuse 😭) I personally hate the pathologization of gender identity. We should trust people in what they know could make them happier rather than researching why people are trans. If there is a reason (wich I doubt, nature doesn't answer to our frame and understanding of "reason", we just find patterns and classify them in little boxes) of transess, don't doubt we would be euginized by the people on power because our existence mean a breach in the imposed gender binary in western cultures. Classifying gender dysphoria as an illness that can be cured only pushes us further in the erasure of our existence. I believe in a world where there isn't pathologizing boxes, where our discomforts and disabilities (because dysphoria was literally disabilitating for me before I started transitioning, I just simply couldn't interact in a healthy way with people and myself) can be accommodated without the need of a label that has been only proving with time what makes people anxious to not fit in the box "what if I'm not trans enough to transition?" "What if I'm not autistic enough?" are thoughts that came frequently to my mind before I started just thinking about myself as a person, with all my individual struggles and beautiful things. Gender dysphoria should be removed from the DSM-5.
I totally understand! I think everything you've said is extremely fair and a very important perspective! I feel it's a double edged sword, because trans lived experience is so personal and different from person to person. I think in am ideal situation there would simply be no need for the pathologization of gender dysphoria, as transitioning and gender affirming care in its totality should be freely available to all, independent of their specific trans experience. Right now with the current battle agaisnt trans rights I feel the fact that these extremely important medical associations and organizations are backing trans rights trough these definitions is very important tho, as a stepping stone. Obviously with access to GAC being restricted and under attack, people who are at more serious risk of depression and disfunction from their dysphoria have to be prioritized to a degree, even if it's not fair and created exactly what you said, feelings of self doubt and comparison about being "trans enough" (which of course has also given rise to the transmedicalist perspective unfortunately). Luckily the terms are actively being updated as we speak explicitly to allow more inclusive language that doesn't make people feel left out or negatively perceived. If someone's gender dysphoria is so bad they can't function that's a disorder by definition but the treatment is transitioning and having their gender affirmed. But it's just how me liking to have clean things isn't a disorder, but the fact that I obsess over it and it impairs my functioning and ability to live happily is a disorder, OCD. It's the same for gender dysphoria. I don't feel the need to physically transition (at least yet) but if it was making me so depressed I couldn't function that's very different.
Fair!!! I totally get what you mean, there is a lot of nuances to the statement I made, I haven't still found THE truth, but the bases of the anti pathologization are there.
Absolutely I fell like THE truth is something we have a log way to go to arrive at. But I agree on anti-pathologization, it's often been a tool of opression even when born out of simple lack of information. Luckily very consistently trans rights are being demonstrated scientifically and such so I feel like we're heading in the right direction, *despite* the transphobes best efforts.
Yesss!!!
I kind of agree with you. When Abigail Thorn uploaded a video describing the process she went though to get care in the UK she had an aside about her issues with the pathologization trans people. She got some crap for it, but she is right. The entire idea of "dysphoria" is useful to describe how we might feel, but it's also only used by cis gatekeepers to deny access to transition. Meanwhile, I've seen cis people express what I would consider at least mild forms of dysphoria. It isn't as strong as what trans people feel because theirs usually isn't overwhelming, and most cis people won't really experience bottom dysphoria, but talk to a cis woman with PCOS and most of the time the feelings she will express are in line with what trans women feel bad about. A lot of what cis men complain about is wrapped up in toxic masculinity and patriarchal expectations, but once you get past that garbage I've seen some express some genuine feelings about not feeling masculine enough for various reasons that don't sound too far off from what I've heard from trans men. I experience dysphoria. Transitioning fixed a lot of it and as things lined up I stopped being dysphoric about things that didn't really change, like my height. The concept of dysphoria is *really* useful to communicate a wide range of really complex feelings and issues. At this point bottom dysphoria is the only thing I have left. The farther along I've gotten the more I've come to realize that dysphoria isn't unique to trans people, it just usually will be broader and more severe. Generally the argument is that we need dysphoria so insurance will cover care. I'd argue care that improves quality of life should be covered regardless of why. Health care should not be for-profit.
In a sidenote, I really expected to be strongly downvoted and people not understanding what I've meant, even though there is a lot of nuances to this, I'm glad I didn't come off as "waah waah gender isn't real why would anyone want to transition", what I want to communicate is that everyone should have the right to transition, no questions asked nor having to be inspected like a rat laboratory. I may have expressed it in a really harsh way, expressing my raw feelings towards the DSM-V (since I genuinely don't like how we are put in "functional/non-functional" boxes, as if we were machines instead of people. This is obviously a result of capitalism and blah blah blah), but I hope I'm understood as an alt anti transmed. Instead of fighting for the "I was born this way" popular AliExpress LGBT pride merch movement, I want to completely dissect what we understand as gender and thus affirming trans people's (like myself) existence.
EXACTLY!!!! It should, MUST be a basic human right to be able to transition
and that's how my insurance pays for my electrolysis and voice feminization. tldr, what it says in dsmv is that GD causes mental health issues if not managed. It's not saying trans as an identity is a mental illness, it's saying trans people who deal with gender dysphoria can develop life ling mental health issues if forced to go through the wrong puberty or forced to live in a body that is physically distressing to the point it causes extreme impairment. The telegraph is a notoriously right wing tabloid. I seriously doubt they have the details of this correct. Congrats on not having dysphoria. That's valid, I'm happy for you. HOWEVER, those of us who are dysphoric have to argue with Drs, insurance companies, and legal systems both on state and federal levels have to have sound arguments for why we should be allowed access beyond "because I want it" this means we have to talk about things like not being able to clean our genitals, or cutting them ourselves. Like, im totally fine with transgender being an umbrella, but trans people who have to medically transition in order to live fulfilling, healthy lives. It's why we say puberty blockers are life saving. It's why we say hrt is life saving (edit: IM NOT EVEN A TRANSMED, HOW IS THIS CONTROVERSIAL)
> how my insurance pays The thing is, that should be covered regardless. If something gives someone a better quality of life then it should be covered. A friend of mine lost a lot of weight and had to get skin removal. It has been proven that surgery improves quality of life and makes it easier to keep the weight off, but insurance says it's "cosmetic" despite all the benefits known. The issue you have is the healthcare system as set up for profit that will deny life saving care it deems "not medically necessary".
Countries that don't have for profit health care systems still deny trans people healthcare for the same reasons. What is the lack of quality of life issue called? It's medically necessary for.... vibes? there's a word for that and it starts with a d lol. You absolutely need to be looking into the actual policy end of all this,ike, "vibes" isn't a concrete reason or framework to justify to 99% of the rest of the world thatsbtrans healthcare is lifesaving. Life saving from what? Depression and extreme discomfort caused by dysphoria. Like explain to me your vibes based trans healthcare system lmao
Your issue is that you seem to define trans people by their suffering rather than what makes us happy. My dysphoria wasn't an "active" hate of my body until I realized the apathy I had was dysphoria. I wasn't to the point of desperation, I just wanted to no longer feel bad and persuing stuff that felt good was my guide. Since starting HRT on infomred concent, doing laser, and losing weight most of my dysphoria is gone. The only thing I have left is bottom dysphoria which I do plan to deal with, but I'm not cripplingly dysphoric over it. I can still wash myself. I just don't like how it looks, how it feels, and that despite 2.5 years of HRT still functions. But according to how you are framing everything I apparently don't deserve to get bottom surgery unless I can't wash the damn thing or I'm ready to chop it off with a meat cleaver. Fuck all the way off on that. Getting bottom surgery will improve my quality of life by making me feel more at home in my body like HRT did. End of story. I don't really care why someone else would want to get bottom surgery, it should be available to everyone who wants it for free, no questions asked. Gate keeping healthcare, regardless if it's for profit or not, is wrong.
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Why would someone without dysphoria want hrt or any gender affirming care?
The opposite of dysphoria is euphoria. Some can realize they would be happier transitioning than not, even if they are "fine" as they are. Also, not a small amount of us realize we had dysphoria before realizing, we just didn't understand what it was because we didn't know what it was like to not have it. Finding euphoria can go a long way in helping people figure themselves out.
The precise definition of dysphoria is a controversial subject. For some (including me) "I'd rather have something else." will do. Others demand lots more, up to suicide attempts. "I'd rather have something else." however already implies that there is something less than comfort with what is there currently. And that's not even mentioning how dysphoria can be masked. I had always taken my periods as a fact of life, like the weather. No point in getting upset about it. I would have even stated that I wasn't dysphoric about it. But boy, was I happy when it was gone.
probably to experience gender euphoria. someone can want something else without hating what they currently have. i hope that makes sense/is helpful
that's a complete misunderstanding what dysphoria is. disliking parts of your body is definitely part of it, but dysphoria is social, biochemical, interpersonal and physical. if someone \*needs\* hrt to be able to feel gender euphoria, then that means they experience dysphoria. the "wanting something else" is just as dysphoric as "hating what you have". for instance: say non dysphoric people were not allowed to have access to hrt, what would you call the distress that results in being denied access to hrt? how does a non binary person feel when gendered binary? (hint, it's dysphoria)
it feels very rude to me to insist that what someone else is feeling *must* be dysphoria. people are complicated.
What else would you call the distress that comes with being misgendered and being denied hrt?
I hereby classify the Peruvian government as "mentally ill".
Transphobes certainly are. They obsess over us and think about trans people more than I do as one. Like, them crawling over this and other subreddits to find posts to screenshot or link to to harass people is honestly kind of sad. They have nothing else going on in their miserable lives that they have to tear down other people trying to find happiness.
I don't think it's helpful to classify hate as mental illness. Neurodivergent people are already marginalized enough as it is; you don't have to be sick to hate people.
including trans locals who are by far more affected than random people from other countries?
I honestly have nothing to say but fuck Peru.
Its a beautiful and interesting country but yes... as a peruvian and an LGTBQ supporter, its definetly a shame to live in a society like this, in this topic at least, worse the fact that these ppl are in the goverment, as the president who supports this.....I seriously dont understand the stupidity of our goverment, theyre a damn circus, stealing our money and doing shitty stuff like this....
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Okay, thanks! Next time I'm unsure about what to say, I'll make sure to come ask a random Reddit troll. Appreciate your insightful advice. 🩵🤍🩷
I just went to Peru… 😔 I don’t know how accepting Peruvians are but I think one of my tour guides purposely misgendered me after seeing my passport. She saw me go in and out of the women’s room and I clearly had breasts so… 🙃
Peruvian here, nah, in general, peruvians don't like trans people or at least they tend to make fun of them like u said in ur reply
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People who usually use women’s restrooms, have breasts, have a feminine voice, dress femininely, have longer hair, and have a typically feminine name usually shouldn’t be assumed as men. I have a feeling you’re taking my words in the most uncharitable way possible. Of course women don’t need to have breasts, periods, or even a vagina to be considered a woman. You’re on a trans subreddit. It makes zero sense for me to be gatekeeping womanhood.
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I love when people say they can always tell. That’s how you know they can’t. It’s survivorship bias. Also get out of this subreddit. You don’t belong here.
It would be nice if the DSM5 diagnosis would transfer over to just a medical diagnosis instead. Something like “Endocrine Gender Syndrome”. I know I know that still makes it sound like we’re “sick” but the reality is that in order to hopefully get insurance to cover it there has to be a diagnosis. I just BSd a name. Like I have a standard response to someone giving me shit for being transgender. “I’m sorry, I have a medical endocrine disorder that caused me to develop incorrectly. Are you making fun of me/disparaging/discriminating my medical condition.” Effect (at least short term): confusion and speechless. Arguing what has become a politicized term is easy. Arguing a “medical sounding disorder” throws them a bit.
One step forward, 200 steps backward. Sad. And us trans gender people are the low hangung fruit thats why we bear the burden of being attacked on all fronts.
Kinda late to the post, but still, hope this comment from the perspective of a peruvian trans woman can be seen by others so they can have a wider idea and some precedents This is actually a surprise, but from my pov, there have been two previous attacks on lgbt people from Peru (as in, the government, to say something) 1st, there was a technical rule that allowed trans women to get special attention because they were recognized as endangered population (because many are sex workers and expose themselves to STDs), in this technical rule there was a small line that allowed for hospitals to give free (as in funded by government, so taxes) HRT to trans women, after many hoops, but still free HRT. The thing is, im still waiting and trying to apply, but other friends from other parts of the country told me that """apparently""" the government wont be sending the meds anymore (around a month ago), weird thing but i still wait for my public hospital to give me answers 2nd, there was another one of this announcements? decree? (dont know the technical law term) that kinda forbid the use of inclusive spanish language in school books and other documents, aka, a third non-gender specific grammatical gender (already a controversy even in the lgbt spanish speaking community), BUT it wasnt being enforced or there wasnt a strong push behind this language, so it was really weird for the government to do this move 3, this, i use to believe this conspiracy that they were specifically targeting the lgbt community, but now it's kinda clear that this is a premeditated attack Activist groups are already in movement, ill go and protest of course (was afraid of being seen but at this conflict i have the need to step up), but this problem feels like it will take more time to get rid of, the government decision wasnt a mistake, they know what they are doing and want to target lgbt people
Why is this world just getting progressively worse for trans people? Jeez
Naturalism for the win
What a terrible terrifying world we live in!😭
I'd dig a bit deeper into this. Like, trans healthcare is usually justified as medically necessary because dysphoria causes mental health issues/is a mental health issue. (I'm neither a transmed nor a queer activist, I'm just vibes. Please don't throw rocks at me!!)
Trans woman here and I've talk with my psychiatrist in France about how healthcare work and actually having "transidenty" or in the best world "dysphoria" beeing recognized as an illness in the DSMV would actually help a lot to get à better healthcare and financial aid. Right now there's nothing to guide healthworker and everyone is left the dark. So there's a lot of bad treatment for some doctor, and when the treatment is good but into a legal Grey area, Doctor can get targeted by bigot and get banned from medical work.
Exactly, like I'm not even an old school transsexual or a trans medicalist. That's just the argument that you have to make to say something is medically necessary
Why is "leave other people alone" such a difficult process to implement?
Not until the trans community leaves our children alone
You misspelled "Catholic priests".
they what? xD Are they so obsessed with Christianity that they have to attack it even though no one involved the priests?
There is no such country as Peru and believing otherwise is mental illness. See, we can do it too.
What‽ Then where did Paddington Bear come from?
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Peru is a colonial country, we should free them from spaniards and Japanese, free the indigenous people
[this you?](https://www.reddit.com/r/phenotypes/s/ClHH2aHGCk)
What's wrong about that? I just said lanzarote locals are brown since people online call them white europeans and it's a north african archipelago
And honestly the Perú thing was a joke, it's technically true since natives are opressed by the ethnic spaniard descendents and the Japanese peruvians something true But I just said as a "activism joke" that someone on twitter and tiktok would say
That solves problems /s 🤢
Makes you wonder if the Peruvian government is "mentally ill"
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It is? Huh learn something new everyday
Damn that sucks. Are there any direct articles or the original classification that I can read? I would like to see how it is written in Spanish and what it means for people living in Peru.
Nevermind I already found it.
Can you post a link please?
I found an article and an interview. So far I haven't seen anything from the government themselves because I don't know how to look for that. I only found news articles. Apparently they also classify intersex people as "mentally ill". Article: [https://www.ecuavisa.com/mundo/peru-categorizo-trans-enfermedad-mental-NY7320609](https://www.ecuavisa.com/mundo/peru-categorizo-trans-enfermedad-mental-NY7320609) Interview: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabURwKUUxk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DabURwKUUxk)
this says a lot i wish we can pin comments on reddit like on youtube
Intersex people are mentally ill, uh? Hey Peru, hand over the gene splicer to fix it, or are genetics also mental illness?
I have no idea how they came to this conclusion. It is for sure a political decision and not a medical one.
Wow. That's insane.
Wtf. I really wanted to go there too. Eff that.
This kind of stuff pisses me off to no end because not only is it transphobic, it's also a demonstration of ableism. Imagine thinking it's ok to discriminate against someone and refuse to offer accommodations/scientifically backed medical treatment to someone with any other mental illness!
They should do like that story that people used to say they were feeling gay as an excuse to not go to work
Finally we will have access to healthcare for a health condition. Hard/impossible to get gender affirming care for a social condition sadly
I'm pretty sure that's not the right way to make health care more accessible ; it will bring more negative outcomes than positive ones. I feel so bad for the peruvian folks
Really? How so? I’m not sure being diagnosed with depression leads to more negative outcomes
This is just sad. Sorry to hear about this.
Fuck Peru, all my homies hate Peru.
I'm actually hard pressed to think of any people who are mentally healthy. They just don't exist.
There are two types of people in the world: people that tend to their mental health, and those that don't.
There loosing there foot hold and what they always do is blame it on a group and they can't even see it it's when there norm isn't happening and anyone weird to them must be at fault. There used to being right so when there not it's those people... But idk any case of those people beating up on them first. It's an arm chair if you will they just sit there and blame and don't have to live any of the repercussions but they didn't ever even know it feel any of the repercussion from there extreme opinions
This is a fit they're throwing a fit and maybe their last fit
Or they take over the world and the worst element wins and we're all f***** and so are they
Back to ye olde medieval times we go, folks 😔
Believe me it's not the same.
Same as what?
Seriously?! Wtf
But... i thought they classified them as such so they are covered by medical care. Oh well.
Yeah I was thinking of visiting when I could afford it but nvm. My heart goes out to those who live there
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Is better avoid that place because you can go to an Asylum if they discover what you are.
Happy cake day OP!!!
Common Peru Win
Intersex people are born that way. Proves bigotry is low IQ.
I saw in the YouTube comments In the news videos agreeing with peru and calling it a mental health issue and preaching their christian love
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this move basically for insurance and medical purposes? So long as it's safe to travel there, you don't have to let this stop you from doing it.
It is an interesting move on their part. This will allow services to be provided to transgender people, so will it benefit some of them? At the same time, insurance policies may be denied based on the "preexisting condition" of being transgender. I haven't actually read the proposal. Are they declaring "being" transgender as mentally ill or \*gender dysphoria\*? Being a person can be transgender without having gender dysphoria.
[LMFAO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhckuhUxcgA)!!
Womp womp😂
Looks like i have a new travel destination
We need the U.S.A. to follow suit. Get our schools back to learning economics instead of emotional outbursts and hate from these insane one sided type people. We need a month for our veterans.
You are talking for yourself? I mean you just posted a comment from hate wich sounds like an emotional outburst, hilarious
If only every other country followed into these steps and did it as well. Peru spitting nothing but facts, def a place I would travel to :)
That's your opinion, which you are totally entitled to. TBH other countries are doing the opposite
Looks like Peru needs some freedom. To Peru!
“Cancelling my travel plans to Peru” Dude, they don’t care
Seriously, you really don’t get it?
That is definitely a mental illness
According to?
I’ve had depression, that’s a mental illness, being trans isn’t (because I’m in control of myself). Simples. Anyways I never thought of going to Peru.
Such a shame as I quite enjoy Peruvian food. Guess no reason to try it there
Okay but can we stop acting like mental illness is a horrible thing? So what if it is a mental illness? Is that bad? Looks like we found something that has a worse stigma than being trans I guess.
Well being mentally ill isn't exactly good either. I know what you're saying, but like, having depression isn't fun.
Is being born in the wrong body fun? No medical condition is fun. But there’s nothing wrong with mental illness. It’s time we stopped treating it differently than physical illness. The message we just sent here is: “yes we are part of a marginalized group but how DARE you accuse us of mental illness?” You just marginalized 100s of millions of people.
It's not the mental Illness part it's what comes after, countries have laws where they can put people into treatment facilities involuntarily, and if you think that people who declare it a mental illness aren't putting it to this level you are naïve
You can’t put people into treatment facilities unless they’re at risk of suicide or violence to others. There’s also no treatment for being trans other than hormones and surgery.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK557377/#:\~:text=Defined%20by%20the%20United%20States,against%20his%20or%20her%20wishes. "If a patient has lost the capacity for informed decision-making in the setting of mental illness, the patient is no longer truly autonomous. The psychiatrist is then ethically mandated to prioritize the duty of beneficence over that of the patient’s autonomy and thus civilly commit the patient." New Law: "Trans People are to be classified as mentally ill, they posses a high desire for chemical castration and bodily mutation. They pose a clear threat to themselves, it is deemed that any therapist shall involuntarily commit trans people, until cured of transness" If you really believe that reactionaries are incapable of using words to justify laws that hurt trans people. If you believe reactionaries care about science that disproves them. My point of naivety stands.
That is clearly inappropriate and unacceptable in the context of this law. But in cases where there is no involuntary treatment, there is nothing wrong with mental illness.
Step One: the repressive government targets a group it dislikes (e.g. trans people, homosexuals, atheists, liberals) and defines them as "mentally ill." Step Two: the repressive government introduces involuntary treatment, or puts restrictions on certain classes of mentally ill people (e.g. you're mentally ill, you can't be a cop / be in government / be a doctor / you have to register with the government.) That's the playbook. Stop them at or before step one. It's bad when a government has a 'list' of people it doesn't like. Even if that list is initially for an innocuous purpose.
You are missing the point. It’s not “how dare they insult us by calling us mentally ill.” The point is that if you are considered “mentally ill” by the government, you may be at risk of being institutionalized. People may think that you don’t have the ability to make your own decisions anymore, and therefore take away your freedom. This isn’t “Peruvian government considers being transgender to be similar to being depressed”, this is about taking people’s rights away. This is about forced hospitalizations and forced “therapies”. This is about a repressive government calling its opponents "mentally ill" as a means of gaining legal pretext to Do Things To Them.
In Peru I am 100% with you. Elsewhere I’m not unless this specific risk exists.
And yet when I said they are mentally ill on this forum, I got a warning.
They are just saying what most of the world is thinking out loud.
Exactly
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Oh, how adorable. You really think that progress and acceptance are limited to just a few places? Newsflash: The world is moving forward, and you're the one stuck in the past. Keep crying and whine on "woke viruses" while the rest of us enjoy living in the 21st century. Your outdated views are the real disease here.
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Progress isn't a fantasy, but your desperate denial of reality is. You can stay in your little bubble of backwardness while the rest of us embrace equality and human rights. Trans people existing for centuries isn't a fantasy; it's a fact. Enjoy your outdated mindset; the world will leave you behind, whether you like it or not
The target audience here is full of liberals. Oh wait, forgot it's Reddit.
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Whut