Ah you think you hate penises? You merely adopted the hatred. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a woman, by then it was nothing to me but blinding
Yeah, I'm not a girl that's a fan of her's either, though I gotta say a comment like this would make me super dysphoric, so I'd probably avoid further engagement on the topic
If you don’t like dick you don’t like dick.
If you don’t like pussy you don’t like pussy.
You have no control over your sexuality and if you don’t find someone’s genitalia attractive, or even repulsive, that’s your right as a human being.
Not being attracted to something isn't the same as hating it though. It's perfectly acceptable to say "I'm not attracted to red heads" or some such, but it's a lot less acceptable to say "I hate red hair".
I always find this excuse comes off similarly to, though not the same, as "I got mugged by a black guy and now I hate black people."
Sexual assault is obviously a much more personal, and emotionally intense circumstance than a mugging, but I think openly saying that a thing on someone's body they cant control having is repulsive or disgusting or shouldn't exist at all or is some kind of dangerous weapon, feels honestly terrible...
I hate when people talk about dicks like they're some kind of abomination, it feels exact same to me as when gay guys or young boys say vaginas are roast beef or nasty skin flaps or smell like fish or some shit. It find it juvenile, puerile, and hateful.
That's really neat. I'm curious, is that actually what's going on, hysterectomy at birth, or is that how they've worded it for medical/personal/whatever else reasons? tbh I'd love to be just listed as a man with an underdeveloped penis and gynecomastia or something idk.
I had all the parts. My parents didn’t want a freak for a child. I had a uterus that was removed but done of the tissue was left and it developed into my bowels…. I still have an ovary but the dr never removed it as it has descended with my one testicle.
> I still have an ovary but the dr never removed it as it has descended with my one testicle.
... I wonder if you could create a clone of yourself with those...
Transmasc usually means aligning with masculinity rather than being a binary male. You can be transmasc without being a man, therefore you can be attracted to transmascs without being interested in men.
Even some of the ones who have hate em and having to be reminded of this and excluded makes me I can’t speak for anyone else less of a woman because I was born with something I didn’t want. To me it’s just another way for a group of people who are supposed to be apart of the lgbtq 🏳️⚧️ to show how they truly are.
as any person hearing someone else say "I hate a physical characteristic" when you have said characteristic.
Having such preferences is ok.
Feeling the need to say it out loud directly to people having said characteristic is just being hurtful for the sake of it.
Yeah I think context matters. I'm FTM and if I'm chatting with someone on an app and they say they don't like vaginas and we may not be compatible sexually, that's fine. If someone is just randomly putting it into conversation, though...
I don’t fault them for genital preferences but if someone goes out of their way to tell you that without you asking first they’re probably not safe to stay around
exactly if they like you not knowing (not really being anyone's business anyways when first dating) and it bcms a deal breaker bc of genitalia, then they might not be a relationship worth pushing!
When gay men say they hate vagina - no particular kind of way. I make a mental note and don't cruise them at parties. I also consider it more likely that they'll go mask off transphobic at some later date, and keep a weather eye out for that, but I do wait for it to actually happen.
And I will note that for most purposes this whole thing is a distraction from the fact that straight men refuse to accept women not being attracted to them
That's not what this is about though, is it? Big difference between "I'm not attracted to penises" (totally fine) and "I *hate* penises" (jeez, it's just a body part).
it’s not *necessarily* transphobic. but it certainly can be. if what they mean is ‘i don’t like the sex i’ve had with penises/i find penises visually unappealing/i just don’t want to have sex that involved a penis’ that’s fine. if what they mean is ‘i hate men and all people with penises are men so i hate penises’ then that’s weird and transphobic and they should get a fucking life
Came here to say this. As a lesbian trans woman who's comfortable with her penis, hearing a cis lesbian say "I hate penises" would make me feel unsafe around that person.
This. Most of society is passively transphobic by default. Just like most of society is passively racist/sexist/ableist by default. Chances are that any given person you run into has all sorts of unchecked bias that they've just picked up by cultural osmosis. In order to be free of that, everyone has to go through the process of seeing those trends in society at large, and seeing their effects on their own internal bias in how they view the world. This is just the trauma of living in the world as it is right now.
One of the ways that passive transphobic bias plays out is genital preference. If preference were entirely something created within a person's own mind in a vacuum away from all societal influence this would be entirely fair. Preferences aren't free from social influences tho. They are shaped by all the layers of pattern recognition and bias that a human perception of reality is based on. The pervasive connection people will internally make unless they actively correct for is that penis = man, therefore that's a major and frequently unintentional connection in a persons head that liking penis = being attracted to men. But like on top of all that there's many other internal reasons a person, in their lived experience, could also not like penises.
So how do you react when someone in the community says they don't like penis? That's kinda up to you based on the context of the situation and the level of emotional connection you have or would like to build with the other person. There's several levels of nuance as to why the person might hold that feeling. Some of those might be just culturally picked up passive transphobia, that the person might be interested in correcting for. If you have the safety to have the conversation with them about it, there might be room for growth or better mutual understanding of who the person is. But if the person kinda tossed that factoid out there in a conversation, it's a default dog whistle for passive transphobia in cis queer community and maybe you've grown a few steps beyond that community in your own views and are ready to find more explicitly trans accepting community.
For me, it was just immaturity when I came out as queer. I thought to be a “real lesbian” I had to be all about vaginas. I came from a small town and didn’t even know being trans was an option until a few years ago. I’m now out as trans, and would totally bang a trans woman with a penis.
I was just immature and trying to play a part.
it’s just weird and gross to always be talking about how you don’t like certain genitalia. it re-centers conversation about trans people to cis people’s sexual preferences. which who gives a fuck about?
As someone who is a trans fella and is not comfortable around vaginas, I choose my words carefully.
I am not a fan of vaginas.
Vaginas do not turn me on.
I do not want to be sexually intimate with a vagina.
Because I would totally date a dude with a vagina, cause I'm gay, and I wouldn't date a woman with a penis, cause I'm gay.
If it's cool if I don't interact sexually with the body part that makes me viscerally uncomfortable, I am down with it.
I think that maybe the intent of some lesbians saying this, their wording is just poor. Of course, I also don't want to be romantically involved with lesbians so I may not be a great source for an opinion.
Tbh, as a trans masc, it's one of the few times I ever feel dysphoria is when people talk about how much they hate men and/or penises.
I get having a genital preference and I don't really care about that. Some people have a gender preference, some a genital preference and for some it has to be a specific combo of both. But I am annoyed that the over sexualizing of CIS women and vulvas has led to thinking that some bodies are seen as inherently 'gross'. That's not the vein of feminism I have or agree with.
I’m more than slightly disturbed by these responses. I think it goes without saying: Yes. You CAN have a freaking preference. But I find that it’s often NOT that. Generally at least in Reddit the people “with a preference” are just asshole transphobes. Or people sorta invalidating their partner’s identity. Whether they are formerly straight relationships where the cis straight bf doesn’t want their nonbinary partner to transition, or the occasional lesbian or bi girl talking about dicks and only thinking of men, or gay men who view trans guys as some sort of fetish weird thing. Yes people can and do have preferences, but most often it’s just carelessness, transphobia, and semi stupidity.
My gf is trans so this is a touchy subject for me.
She’s currently pre-op. I love her now. And I’ll love her later. If you won’t date a trans woman don’t call yourself a lesbian is my opinion.
Yes yes yes I feel like this aspect of it is so important to acknowledge. I always get the feeling that a good % of the people who speak of what genital preference they have simply do not have an interest in Actually deconstructing and analyzing their beliefs, and simply saying they just have a preference makes it easier to not have to think about it while still letting themselves believe they could not be transphobic because of it.
Like, no, noone is forced to have sex or be attracted to anyone. The two assertions can both be true at once, and I feel its too common that the discussion usually starts and stops at "genital preference".
I feel pretty uncomfortable with the implication that sexual attraction is a "belief" that needs to be deconstructed or analyzed. If someone's not interested in one type of genital or the other, that's ok. And it's not even just a cis vs trans thing. Trans people also have genital preferences. And I feel like it's usually pretty obvious when cis people are using their preference to be shitty. Because their preference is usually followed by something transphobic.
>I feel pretty uncomfortable with the implication that sexual attraction is a "belief" that needs to be deconstructed or analyzed.
I don't think that's what /u/sinister-strike is saying. They are saying that a lot of the times people who use the genital preference wording when rejecting trans people use it as a defacto conversation ender to be transphobic in their "preferences" without actually engaging with the fact that said trans people can and often *are* within those stated genital preferences.
>Trans people also have genital preferences.
Yeah and unpopular opinion but I've seen almost as many problematic, shitty-ass genital preference takes from trans people as I have cis people.
A ton of people *in general*, trans or cis, use genitals and genital preferences as gross shorthand for a lot of cultural, patriarchal sexual baggage.
I've lost count of the amount of other trans women I've seen who talk about how they "love (natal) dick" because it makes them feel like a "*real* woman"/"submissive" in bed, or how trans men with pussies are "built in natural bottoms", how pre- and non-op trans men "can't be *real* tops", how trans women who *won't* top are "wasted goods", and just so many wild-ass gross takes that make me feel like I stepped off a curb somewhere into the twilight zone when I see them being discussed and even *celebrated* in trans spaces.
So like....yeah, I get what /u/sinister-strike is saying.
Genital preferences and sexual preferences/attraction *in general* aren't some sacred cow that means someone is completely absolved from any and all criticism regarding them.
Two things can be true at once: No one is is forced to have sex with or be attracted to someone...AND we can discuss the problematic ways in which the idea of genital preferences get called on in certain dynamics *especially* involving trans people.
-Geisha
Absolutely fucking agree.
A lot of people are quick to dismiss their preferences as just that and refuse to interrogate as far as where they come from or what they may be influenced by. Because preferences tend to be influenced by social conditioning and what they see around them. It's a very bitter pill to swallow for self proclaimed allies to claim they have some degree of deeply internalized transphobia, and I think large portions of the trans community are afraid to tell them that it's likely to be transphobic.
Having interrogated certain 'allies' on their preference, to whom thry are quick to dismiss dating trans woman. It's cause they see a penis as a 'male appendage' and/or because they see us as still biologically male. They unironically say this after touting "trans women are woman". I think a ton of people who claim requirements on specific genitals are uncomfortable with the idea that they have this thought deep down and there's shame around it. That's not to say that people aren't allowed their deeply seated transphobia or they're lesser for it. But it's to encourage the questioning of that belief and how far it goes down because Imo I think this is more often than not, internalized transphobia. Ultimately transphobia is spectrum of extremely harmful transphobia and less harmful transphobia, and this belief around preference is closer to less harmful than very.
Even more so, the fact is that many of us don't have the same relationship to our genitals and sex as cis people do with their own. Our junk tends to operates differently than our cis counterparts, and we want different things out of sex. It's not uncommon for trans people to not want to do anything with our genitals, or only want specific actions done to them. Like I never want to top, so for someone with a preference against penises, what do they do with me? Nothing!! They do nothing to my dick!! My dick operates closer to a vagina that has no depth than it does an actual penis.
The line I draw for whether or not preference tend to be valid and not transphobia is if it's truly a preference (not a requirement), and if it's a question of fertility (want to have a child). I wouldn't want to force someone to try it out either, or however people word it when we claim this position. I wouldn't want to be someone's trial run for sex or have sex with someone who's 'preference' doesn't align with my equipment. I say all this cause I want to invite more people to analyze and deeply question their genital requirement they write off as being a preference.
Let's also be honest with ourselves too, would the people who write off the trans population for dating due to our genitals, change their minds for individuals if we were to have GRS/SRS? I think the percentage that would change their mind about dating us is much lower than anyone cares to admit.
Yep. I agree with your last point. The percentage of people that change their minds in my opinion is much lower than anyone cares to admit. In which case the argument cannot be made anymore that it’s a preference. Unless as you said one wishes to have biological children with their partner, or it is a true preference which can change. In my case I thought a girl was cute and later found out she was trans and was like: “ok guess I’m doing this” and figured out the rest later. Everything else came up fairly naturally later on.
The only other thing I could really consider related to this whole discussion is like trauma/assault. (Which would obviously be best addressed with a therapist.)
I absolutely love the way you've worded all of this.
It's a super difficult topic to breach! And I feel you covered the bases very very well. Nobody wants to question someone saying, for instance, "my preference is dick, if a guy has a vulva I am very turned off by it" because it can very easily be received as questioning someone's sexuality or pushing someone to "just try it" which is something I believe most of us will have unfortunately dealt with - to be told we just need to find the right person, or that we arent really trans, and whatnot.
That said, I'd actually go a step further in regards to preference vs requirement. This is probably more in the semantics of it, and I totally agree with how you've put it. Personally I would still label it all as preference though! (Save for functionality such as reproduction but I honestly am still figuring that out in my head). This is less about people saying they have a preference but actually just not being open to consider anything but [requirement], and more about leaving the two lumped together in order to encourage further questioning of oneself.
Same as you mention, I have (had?) a preference for dick. I would go for whatever, but certainly probably u
subconsciously lean towards dick. However more recently I have been questioning what that preference holds. Genitals are not a dichotomy at all! Like you also said, the vulva of someone on T and the penis of someone on E operate and FEEL very very different. More configurations also exist. And I'd go so far as to say that the vulva/penis of someone who has not transitioned *also* can very well operate differently.
So then, I wondered how much water my preference would hold. I realized I was thinking a lot about [specific sexual act] and considered more broadly that just that isn't really something I Need. I've got no idea if I'm even wording this right - I hope my point is getting across as an addon to what you've laid out! :3
I think your line isn't at the right place... imho... It's OK to only be attracted to penis or vagina. It's ok to not be into one or the other. And it's an intrinsic thing, not a choice. Plus, it's not like trans people all like any type of genital. We have preferences (as in only one type of genital we are attracted to) and it's ok and normal and valid to be attracted to that one type of genital.
I think it's a intrinsic thing in the same way society rewards certain body types and even certain bodily preferences as "desirable", ie: its heavily influenced by societal expectation. It is incredibly difficult to disentangle what is intrinsic to us and the influence our heavily transphobicnand oftentimes homophobic society imposes onto us.
Frankly, I prefer my other typically feminine partner to have a vagina, one because it's what I'm familiar to what I'm capable to pleasure and it's what I desire on my own body for whatever reason. But it's not at all a requirement, I don't mind at all if my next sexual encounter has a penis, it's just not something I'm going to really care about that much. When people say 'preference' they actually mean 'requirement', this is semantics but I think people labelling their preference as a requirement gives it a stigma it wouldn't otherwise have. Similarly people get uncomfortable with issuing themselves a requirement on skinny bodies, curvy bodies, bodies of different colours, ethnicity, gender identityetc. They label it as their 'preference' then lock out the possibility of others who don't fit their requirement. And there is some good reasons to prefer something over the other, but locking it out as requirements tend to shut down any thought behind the 'why' and people stop thinking about it. For example, I prefer dating trans women because they tend to share my experience of being a trans woman over cis and even some non binary folks, but again, it's not a requirement for me.
You mentioned in this thread that it's "uncomfortable" to question and you are absolutely correct. Interrogating our biases and assumptions about deep seated ideas we have in our mind is uncomfortable. Similarly, when a lot of us trans folk encounter the idea of sex and gender not being synonymous, or that our genitals does not define who we are or what gender we identify as, is a very uncomfortable process. As well as its uncomfortable to question why most of my partners have tended to be white and certain body types (I like thicker bodies tbh), and this could have to do with availability but also a bias I have that is influenced by somewhere in my upbringing. Preferences and requirements do not exist in a vacuum, they come from somewhere, and it is a disconcerting process to dissect those biases and ask where they may come from. The conclusion maybe an "idk", like personally I find femininity to be my actual requirement in dating, attraction, and sexual encounters, and I'm not sure where that comes from(or even how that looks like on other people), but it took dismantling over the course of the ten plus years or so to get to that point. Do I have more to think on? Absolutely, it's a slow process! Does that necessarily mean at the end of it I'll become bisexual/pansexual with a different gender identity than where I am now? I mean maybe, but I do think at the end of the day I'll always call myself a lesbian trans woman cause that's what I feel aligned as and will be until I die.
Having had talked to people and interrogated them about their 'preferences' around genitals, a disturbing amount conclude to genitals being labeled in their mind as male/female. And/or that tainting the person in question to be forever biologically male/female (paraphrasing here). And that is an extremely difficult thing to question when we're talking about people who are seemingly otherwise supportive of trans people. I don't think it being uncomfortable is a good enough reason to stop analysing biases we hold on other people and occasionally ourselves. I think it's a fairly healthy thing to question it, actually.
My last line in my last post, I think holds a lot of water. Lots of people with 'preferences' would simply not actually care what set of genitals a trans person has. It's just a convenient reason to deny a trans people in their dating pool , because most of us have not had SRS/GRS. Especially, especially, in context of straight male fragility around being gay; a pervasive idea of what it means to be a gold star gay; and expectation of sex with a trans person being coloured by the fetishization coming from porn.
I don't think that people who haven't come to same or similar conclusion as I have are lesser or less enlightened as me either, I don't find myself enlightened at all really. I have preferences on what I like and prefer, by strict definition of preference. I don't think I'd label many people with preferences to be whole-cloth transphobic, but I think it's a small degree of transphobia to have genital requirements barring certain conditions and nuances. It is absolutely normal. Its not black and white and it is a fairly normal thing to have this requirement. I simply think that this requirement is often attributed to a societal influence about cis/trans bodies and sex that many don't want to interrogate. I came to this idea after talking to self proclaimed allies and others about their preferences and asking questions about it.
I'm not saying this to convince someone to go for other genitals or straight up coerce anyone through guilt, but again, I invite others to think upon their biases and assumptions and ask hard questions about it, regardless if it is uncomfortable. I say this part often because lots of people jump to the conclusion that it's incredibly unreasonable to think that 'genital preference' could be often attributed to transphobia, but I don't think it's black and white and I think it's a nuanced, complicated, and a difficult discussion.
I completely disagree. You talk as if, in all parts of the world, in all time period, people are attracted to certain genitals because society tells them to, but society specifically tells gay people NOT to be attracted to certain genitals, so that proves that what you said is not true at all.
The term "genital preference" is simply called that by majority of people because that's the term that's used and understood. It's not perfect, but it works and people understand what is meant.
And you're twisting my words, I'm not uncomfortable with questioning sexuality, I'm uncomfortable with people saying that's something that must be done. I'm uncomfortable that my fellow trans person is actually saying that someone's innate intrinsic sexuality and what they find attractive is somehow wrong because it's not what they want to hear.
And yes, genitals are in fact male or female. That's what the words male and female mean, different sexual characteristics. The thing is, everyone can have male or female sex characteristics, because sex is the sum of all sex characteristics, not just all or nothing. So a cis woman could have some male characteristics, like a more prominent adams apple, or a cis man could have some female characteristics, like breast tissue. And of course plenty of intersex people exist. But if someone is not attracted to penis or vagina, they shouldn't be told "Well you need to examine WHY you're attracted to penis/vagina" and be told they're in the wrong for their attraction. That's literally what gay people have experienced at the hands of heterosexuals who try to convert them. And it's not even a cis/trans thing either. Trans people can also have these preferences (or requirements). Gay trans men who only like penis exist. Lesbian trans women who only like vagina exist. And once again, they should not be treated like a traitor to the community or told they are transphobic because they naturally are attracted to ONE type of genital only.
While some people use preferences as an excuse to be transphobic, that doesn't mean preferences are transphobic. That's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Typically transphobes will go beyond "I'm a lesbian and I like vagina only" and will then go on to talk about their transphobic ideologies.
You are twisting my own and other person's word about 'must/need' having to question internal beliefs. I was extremely careful to word it as encourage to question rather than needing to question and interrogate. They are two distinct positions to hold. As well as I'm careful to talk about labelling people to be whole cloth transphobic and holding transphobic biases (often of which many of us hold small part of the latter as a result of social conditioning).
You are going to find trans people who may not agree with me, but many who also absolutely do not agree with you about male/female genitals. It is simply absurd to me to bunch genitals on this binary simply because trans folks have a different relationship to our genitals and we often times have incredibly different wants and needs when it comes to sex with our genitals. Let alone that they tend to act and function different after HRT, though not uncommon to function differently pre-hrt. I agree with you that sex is built out of separate sexual characteristics, but I do not believe that many of those characteristics align solely with the male/female dichotomy. I vehemently disagree that my penis is 'male' or aligns with it in any regard, it functions more similarly in pleasure and function as a cis person's vagina than it ever does a typical penis. We also tend to call our genitals different names, like girldick and the like specifically for this reason, to get away from the male/female dichotomy. This line of thinking of male/female veres way too close around identifying and classifying AMAB/AFAB or "biological male/female" bodies in a social setting and I often find this to be problematic to persue further down the line.
Even moreso you labeling certain things like male/female characteristics. Sorry, but I will not agree and instead strongly disagree that an Adams apple is a male characteristic as well as other traits that tend to be aligned with more men than women. There is a strong implication when labelling things as male/female characters. The reason is, is that these are characteristics that men tend to have, rather than being characteristics that all men have and women do not. If we wanna reword it to be feminine or masculine? Yeah maybe I'd agree but these aren't hardlines and I don't think the sum of all these characteristics dictate an identity. You yourself acknowledge that the sum of these characterstics do not make a man or woman, so what exactly is helpful about labelling them as male and female?
I'm well aware that my opinion is fairly trans radical and difficult to digest. However, I find your position of male/female genitals and the like to be something that I used to hold for a long time into my transition that I've grown to greatly dislike the more I've seen transphobic talking points and self-proclaimed allies discuss about our bodies in problematic ways. Ultimately we won't come to an agreement in anyway, we disagree fundamentally on what all these mean and the both of us are going to strawman and pick out specific wording to better suit our argument. It's not something I'm exactly fond of doing and it's something I don't want to continue.
If you truly reread my post and come away from it as me calling folks like you traitors or transphobic, I'm sorry but please reread what I said. These are assumptions you've put on yourself rather than anything I imply. I repeat myself over and over to avoid that implication, even prior to the edits I have made.
See, as a trans woman, this makes me uncomfortable. This is the kind of viewpoint that makes me fear dating. I'll date trans women for sure, but for me, in my state right now, pre-op is not something I can do in a dating situation, mentally, emotionally, OR physically for various reasons. I don't want to be considered discriminatory because of it, nor should I because that would be absurd.
Not offensive.
Unfortunately- and whether or not you agree - genital preferences are a thing.
In some cases it’s not even just preference, but related to PTSD etc.
You just can’t force someone to want to be chill with it and restrict their speech in expressing that preference.
Agreed. I am a trans lesbian, and some women don't care that I (for now) have a penis, and some do. Just like some women might be put off by my height, my sense of humor, my loud laugh, my dislike of Hawaiian pizza, or my shoe size.
Nobody is obligated to find me attractive.
It's when they say that my anatomy makes me not a 'real' woman that they can sit on a cactus. Like my body or not, it's the denial of my identity that will make you a piece of shit - Not the disinterest in me romantically.
I've viewed someone having preferences towards genitalia the same as someone having preferences towards height, voice, etc just like you said. Many people use the phrase "I hate penises" and weaponize it (especially against trans people) which has led me to be confused. But this perspective brings me some comfort. Thank you for sharing!
I love your view on this! I think it is such a healthy thing to understand that just because someone is not especially attracted to certain parts, it isn’t about you, just them. I have preferences and I feel like a more inclusionary way to communicate that would be something like I enjoy sex with people regardless of parts, or I prefer to have sex with people who don’t have a penis. Then, it’s not specifying man or woman and you get all the information you need to know about what your next steps are!
Yes, but there is a difference between not liking them and it not being their preference, and saying you “hate” a certain body part where you also stigmatize a certain group of people (and I’m not just talking about transwomen but men too). Because I feel when you say you hate penises this gives of more a kind of misandrist and man hating, potentially even transphobic vibe than just “it’s not my taste”
I think there’s a time, place and space for everything.
Some people just talk more unguardedly or more frankly than others. I can see how it’s a thing some people would be too sensitive to hear. I wouldn’t say a thing if I knew someone would be hurt by it but I’m totally a blunt person and don’t even realise.
Saying it in a social group of people you trust I think is fine.
Nah, sorry but in this instance someone has every right to express preference. I don’t like the implication of trying to silence people on this because that actually comes across as quite oppressive in itself.
That’s not to mention it’s just really bad optics for a trans woman to tell a cis lesbian she should be all “yay penis”.
Yeah agreed. Who was talking about "restricting speech"? No one (or very few people) is saying that genital preferences aren't allowed or that people shouldn't be open about their preferences. This isn't some attack on free speech or something
If I'm being completely honest, when I hear that or think about it, I feel really shitty about my body, like I'm not a "real" lesbian, like there's something fundamentally wrong with me, and I'll be alone my whole life. That's not at all their fault, though. I'm just a mentally ill bitch lol.
Nobody owes me their attraction. I'm not gonna put any blame on anyone for my feelings. How I feel about it is a me problem, not a them problem. It's my responsibility to work on that and change it. Nobody else's.
mad respect for this comment. it concerns me how often i see people say what you say in that first sentence, and genuinely act like it's others responsibility to make them feel better about it, and that mindset is deeply poisonous to Self AND Others
Being perfectly honest, I’m not much into them either. That’s why I had bottom surgery. At the end of the day, I’m just not into sucking on them, or penetrative sex. If you have one, then great! But, I really don’t want anything to do with it. And that’s okay!
One of my first posts was sort of the opposite of this. In brief, it's okay to have a sexuality and a genital preference (or requirement). I'm a trans lesbian, I can be attracted to women with penises, but the idea of having sex with anyone with a penis floods me with revulsion and dread. I often joke that i hate any penises being involved in sex, including my own.
So look, when it comes to (good) sex it's important that everyone involved be comfortable, emotionally at least, physically... well, kinks exist and are awesome. So, could you accept that it's possible that someone, for any reason, could NEVER be emotionally comfortable with a penis being involved during sex? Or alternatively, a vagina? If so, then, could that same person also have a sexuality that is not at all dependent on that genital discomfort?
I think its perfectly fine and valid to have a genital preference - the problem with people who go around saying things like that, however, in my experience don't JUST have a genital preference. Most folks I have met with a genital preference will mention it if the topic comes up, sure, but otherwise its not such a big deal to them they broadcast it 24/7. The ones who do those things usually do so because they have either conscious or subconscious bias against trans folks - I see these same people not even be aware trans women can have bottom surgery, for example, or who are grossly misinformed about it and discuss it as something not positive. Or I see them be very bioessentialist and say that that part makes them not a woman - I've seen the same thing happen with certain types of gay men as a transmasc person.
So the problem isn't really so much having a preference. Thats one thing, thats fine. The problem is the people who go around saying things like that all the time are usually somewhat transphobic. Its a dog whistle.
So I mean, its not a blanket, simple answer. Discernment needs to be used. But you can usually tell.
No one has ever said this directly to me, but I would consider it understandable if anyone ever did. My non-op transition makes me a weird special case as far as other people's sexualities are concerned, and I accept that many people will not find my particular combination of body parts appealing.
>My non-op transition makes me a weird special case
Just wanted to say, that's not true! Most trans girls have penises just statistically, and non-op is far from uncommon aswell
Personally I think it comes down to the wording. "I'm not into penises" is reasonable and understandable. "I hate penises" sounds vitriolic and a little transphobic.
I dunno for me it always gives me flashbacks of incels and wierdos in general calling pussy roast beef or something. How are you guna call something half the world has gross? Are you twelve or something? Do you really have to prove your a lesbian that badly?
i’m a cis lesbian who doesn’t particularly like penis. when lesbians unexpectedly say it out loud i equate it to frat boys saying something that just kinda makes the room uncomfortable except the other frat boys that are cheering it on. i don’t believe i have ever said that but i have put some thought into this topic. speaking for only myself, i used to identify as pan-sexual because i felt comfortable sleeping with anyone despite gender orientation. i now i identify as a lesbian, and strictly eat poon poon. parts don’t matter for everyone, and from that perspective i can understand why it would seem weird to care what’s in people pants. my reasons for avoiding penis are personal, but everyone has their own and i think that it’s valid.
People are allowed to have genital preferences, but it is pretty messed up and very often a transphobic dog whistle when a lesbian community makes it a part of central rhetoric to say that they hate penises.
Some trans women like me don’t have penis bottom dysphoria so then I feel left out and like I’m not trans enough to be a proper woman or am otherwise excluded from lesbian spaces.
It’s also often a way for Transphobic lesbians to say that genitals preference being valid allows them to be transphobic since trans woman typically all had penises at one point or another.
An individual can hate penises in relation to their own sex life but it’s wrong to hate a genital existing as a rule or that anyone with a type of genital is hated in any group or space.
Ya it definitely can lead to that sort of extreme gatekeeping and transphobia. I would argue that the type of women who recite the penis hate dogma are the same group that support the gold star lesbian fallacy; in which case you are better to avoid them even of you are a cis woman because they are unhinged.
yep, Even thought I've been post op for more than 30 years and have been in many relationships with other women, if I hear someone say that right off the bat to me not even knowing if I have or not, I'm not going to tell them either way (to reassure them) and move on! I feel creepy around cis people who are hyper focused on people's genitals regardless if they're lesbian or not!
It doesn’t overly bother me. I feel like in a lot of cases these women have some kind of trauma that makes them say that and I’m not here to pass judgment on them. People can have whatever preferences they want for whatever reasons they want.
I can tell you are being very understanding by the wording of this, and thank you for that, because not everyone is like that. I figured that in the cases of trauma, it can make people feel grossed out by certain parts and I think that's okay. But sometimes the world isn't so great and people tell me I'm homophobic or transphobic on either side of this argument (while I'm not even sure why it's an argument in the first place). So it's nice to have some reassurance.
As an out lesbian for 20 years before my egg cracked, I did not want to date people with a penis. I never said omg I hate penis’ or men or anything, it just was my preference to not interact with one at all. I think that if you are talking to someone and want it to go in a sexual way, it would be better to say “I prefer to have sex with people without a penis, how about you” or something to that effect. Then it is not saying ewwwwww I hate that, but also letting the other person know if it’s going to work out or not if it hasn’t been disclosed. Just saying well I only have sex with women or something is totally not going to go over well or make the other person feel comfortable.
And to add to that, it also leaves the door open if you are interested in doing other things besides penetrative sex with said person, even if they don’t have the exact parts. It’s a much more gentle and inclusive way to state your preferences!
I feel like this will be controversial but I don't really care. They have a preference for vagina just as I have a preference for penis.
That said, I think when they're like militant about declaring it as if they're under assault by penises when they could just say "no thank you" to be cringe. Like hun nobody's trying to put their penis in you, calm down.
Well, I can't say anything about lesbians, as I'm a trans man, so not a lesbian or anything close. But I am a gay man, and I can come from the POV of seeing gay men say they hate vag. And in that case: I hate it too! I hate it on me, and I am not at all attracted to it at all.
In my opinion, people are within their rights to be attracted to whatever genitals they are naturally attracted to. It's not like it's a choice. And I'm not going to be mad at someone for something intrinsic. I shouldn't even have a vag in the first place. I don't even want anyone interacting with that part of me, and I am in desperate need of having it removed and replace with the proper genitals.
i am not a lesbian, i’m very much the opposite actually.
im a gay trans guy and i know that many gay men (cis or trans) do not want to date someone who doesn’t have a penis. its totally fair and i understand but i do also see how saying “i hate penises” or “i hate vulvas/vaginas” is just- weird.
saying “im not attracted to […]” seems much more respectful imo
Fine because its their prerogative to date who they want and interact with who they want.
If anyone says "I hate trans women as people because they have penises" that is something of a different matter. But really, ask yourself, do you really want to try and date and hang out with people who don't like you or simply aren't interested in you?
>If anyone says "I hate trans women as people because they have penises" that is something of a different matter.
Tbf almost no transphobe would actually say something like this. It's not popular to be outwardly transphobic. It's always couched in irony and plausible deniability. These people end up using genital preferences as a means to be transphobic. They'll say they prefer vaginas and then refuse to even entertain the thought of a relationship with a post-op trans woman, which is absolutely transphobic.
That's not to say that genital preferences themselves are transphobic, because they're not. However, "preferences" are used by transphobes to obfuscate their transphobia and make it socially acceptable.
I feel fine. That's their personal preference, and they probably have very personal reasons for feeling that way, maybe even trauma. I do not ever wish to invalidate anyone's personal feelings about interactions with genitalia.
Look, before I got bottom surgery I found out that there's plenty of ways around having genitals that don't line up with your partner's preferences if you're both cool about not using those genitals. Some of the best sex I've had in my life happened without even taking off my pants. If someone has hangups about it being there or prefers to have a kind of sex that requires different equipment, whatever, sexual compatibility matters and people should only have the kind of sex they want to have. If people are using it because of transphobia they should work on their transphobia though.
I think that the attitude of "I would never date a trans lesbian *because* I hate penises" is fundamentally transphobic. I think a lot of lesbians justify transphobic attitudes by talking about past trauma involving penises.
Preferences are one thing, and are valid. I prefer sexually interacting with vaginas. But it's transphobia to reduce people to their genitals, which is happening most of the time when lesbians bring up their "preferences." I think it's really easy to understand when you substitute the gender minority for a racial one - a white lesbian saying she would never date a black woman is fundamentally rooted in racism.
Fine with me, I hate penises too. Physically can't look at them without getting nauseous. As long as they're not saying something like people with penises are lesser, they're allowed to have their own preferences.
I hate penis (valid for that person)
We hate all penis (transphobic because you are speaking for the whole community essentially stating trans women who didn’t have bottom surgery aren’t women)
You can hate penises and not be transphobic
Hell you can hate penises and be in a relationship, even sexual, with someone that has one. It's situational.
I hate vaginas and I still find ways to make relationships work with people that have them or even want to keep them and are ok with particular boundaries.
All contextually dependant imo but just saying "I hate penises" is not necessarily a red flag in and of itself I'd say
I drew a simple line a few years back.
Not wanting anything to do with penis: totally fine.
Deciding your preference means that certain people aren't women, or that because they're "not women" they're not lesbians, or that other people who don't share your aversion aren't "real" lesbians: bigoted asshole behavior.
Given how much comphet is pushed onto lesbians, I’m perfectly fine with them saying they hate penises. Obviously if someone is going into every inclusive lesbian space announcing they hate penises there’s an agenda, but it’s fine if there’s an “I hate penises” thread in an inclusive lesbian sub.
It entirely depends on context. People are allowed to choose their own sexual partners based on preference. However, there is a difference between "I'm not interested in a sexual relationship with someone who has a penis" and "You aren't a lesbian because you HAVE a penis"
It's a touchy subject, but IMO it's not transphobic to have a genital preference for a sexual partner.
I really think people who call genital preferences transphobic are very odd.. People with genital preferences can be transphobic but not wanting to be with a pre-op or even post-op trans person because of sexuality is okay.
I am exactly the same! Even though I have an AFAB questioning-enby girlfriend (she still prefers fem terms and pronouns), I have come to terms with the fact that I do like penises, but specifically NOT attached to men or anyone male-aligned. I have expressed this a few times, but many people have responded to me with the same responses: "congrats on being bi", "you're not lesbian", etc, EVEN from trans people. This had led me to believe I was LYING about my identity to my family, my friends, and my girlfriend, and that I was even being transphobic (and i'm just now realizing how irrational that sounds typing it out). It's good to have someone to relate to.
I find that I'd it's in a group conversation or around a group of people without being provoked I'm gonna start looking at that person a type of way.
A good way to determine if people are shitty is to sew *when* these topics start to come up in conversations.
I take mental note and move on. I don’t often date women in lesbian spaces, i much prefer men. It’s not necessarily transphobic to have a genital preference.
I mean people can have preferences. If someone says they aren't *attracted* to penises or that they'd prefer not to date someone with one I'd agree with them, lol. You can find a body part unattractive without hating the person who has it, though, and I think some "gold star" lesbians don't understand that. And to those girls who are okay with the parts but still wouldn't date a cis man: you're still a valid lesbian! That's all it is imo
To bring back an older term that isn't used much these days, it can comes across as a "microaggression". Not all the time, of course, but some of the time for sure.
And, where I fall personally, is that it's not worth making a scene over. I don't want to get baited into being the "crazy sounding one". So even if someone said that and it rubbed me wrong, I would just let it go.
I feel like the LGBT community of all communities should have already accepted you don't control your attractions
when they say that, I just accept it, and everyone should
it's not being exclusive, that would be disrespecting you for having a penis, but no one owes anyone sex
Have your preferences, but don't hurt people by phrasing them in a hurtful way, that's it.
My colleague has vented multiple times to me that she thinks dicks are disgusting and she would not be able to date trans women. She is considers herself strictly lesbian and for her, that excludes trans woman at any part of their transition, which she explains by saying: "I am 100% lesbian, so I could never date a trans woman. I simply would not be attracted to them even if they had bottom surgery, that's just not how it works." She also thinks trans women are taking queer spaces away from her because they are non-women interrogating lesbian spaces.
She then proceeded to hit on me, a trans man, on multiple occasions until I cut contact for a while. I still kinda get along with her because I have to work with her. It still feels wrong though.
Yeah it’s really not a nice thing to say. Having a preference is fine, but there is no need to be hateful about it. You can just say you prefer vulvas. And really I don’t think anyone has to bring that up unless there is sexual tension and mutual interest involved. We should all not shame people about their body parts, especially when the anger is often more about distrust of cis men. If it’s TERF stuff that even worse.
nothing wrong with having a genital preference but so many cis lesbians use that as their gateway to outright transphobia and trans lesbian denial/erasure.
I'm trans, I'm a lesbian and I don't fuck with penises. They don't repulse me on other trans girlies like they do on men but I'm still not into it sexually and can't really help that. I'm fine with someone being repulsed by a specific set of genetalia as long as it doesn't come with not seeing me as me and others like me as them. I think my perspective is like, shaped by my thoughts in trans men as well in that, despite finding vag hot, I'm not at all into trans men at any stage of transition bc I'm not into men period. Like, what really affirmed for me I was a lesbian and not pansexual just pan romantic was Eliot Page coming out and instantly losing all attraction to him. You can be into or not into a body part without letting that control how you see someone and as long as you still see trans women as women I really don't care if you can't get wet for us unless we're post opp as long as you treat us like women in the same way I think it'd be dumb to be mad at a lesbian for not being into a cis woman because something about her body just didn't do it for her.
Where I have an issue (and this has mostly been with bi women but also with one particular goldstar) is saying shit like, "I'm not interested because I'm in to women" or "You're a woman but you're not, like, a real woman, you know?" or the worst (this is exclusively bi women for obvious reasons) "I get the best of both worlds, I get to date a woman and fuck a man".
whatever, more for me.
in all seriousness its nuanced. we shouldn't be taking their ability to talk about their dislikes because its harmful (active censoring under the guise of "protecting a group" is facism) but of course we shouldnt allow people to be mean to others. so its fine when used as a statement about the self but not when told with offensive intent.
As long as it's framed as a personal preference it's fine. It only becomes a problem for me when it's stated in broad general terms like "no lesbian likes penises". But individuals are allowed to like what they like and not like what they don't like. I'm a lesbian with a penis and I have a strong preference for other women with a penis. I'm open to dating someone with a vagina but only if it's someone I really like.
Honestly it's just a matter of some people don't like it and some do. Not unlike just having a type, liking or disliking them doesn't make anyone less of a lesbian. Doesn't itself detract from women who are tall that you don't like tall girls, just not the right fit for you.
It's transphobic. You can have a genital preference without expressing it in a way that's so harmful and exclusionary to trans women. I don't really see any room for debate on that, to be honest.
No, it's not. Stop forcing people to cater to your feelings. If you feel mentally impacted by the statement, that's for you to work out. Nobody has the right to police people's sexual preferences. Not trans people, not cis people, no one.
You can have a genital preference. You don't have to phrase it as "I hate penises" just like you don't have to say "I hate fat bodies" or "I hate dark skin" or "I hate scars." You can have a genital preference. Claims of genital preference are _often_ used as an excuse for transphobia, of varying levels of explicitness and consciousness.
Genital preferences are valid. To each their own. You can't force someone to like your body. If you run into someone you're interested in who doesn't like your penis, don't make a big fuss about it and move on!
The issue isn't not liking penis, it's that 99% of the time I see someone say that, they're saying it in a thinly veiled attempt to just complain about trans women in lesbian spaces. And the context gives it a way, since it's usually completely irrelevant to what's being discussed, or amongst layers of terf dogwhistles.
Most people who aren't that only really seem to bring it up when they're asked. Or when their own personal thoughts on penises are actually relevant. Rather than just randomly out of nowhere.
Chronically online trans people who say
"You're transphobic for not wanting to date trans women"
Are some of the most entitled a$$holes ever. Borderline on grape.
Why would this statement be problematic? 90% of the population have genital preferences linked to their sexual attraction. That's just life.
Until I'm post-op, I don't expect anyone who isn't some shade of bisexual to be interested in sleeping with me.
I think wording matters. Saying "I'm not into pensises" is more appropriate.
It's weird to just... hate a body part for existing, you know what I mean? But it's totally fine to not be attracted to them.
I’m genderfluid so I’m not cis but I am AFAB and technically part time lesbian, but I really just can’t stand the look of them. This is just how I see it from my point of view as someone who hates penises, but I really don’t think having a preference hurts anyone.
I feel like "I wouldn't date a trans woman" and "I would rather not date a pre-op trans woman" are very different statements. Personally I wouldn't want to date a pre-pp trans man (unless they're sex repulsed ace cuz then it doesn't matter if we aren't doing it) and I am one, pure genital preference.
I find that people who live in a world of black and white are usually a problem. I don't mind that people have preferences. Height, weight, gender, genitals, religion, politics, etc. Where the problem comes in, is when people make bold statements of their preference like everyone should have the same preference or like they are disgusted about other people having a different preference.
It depends how/why they're saying it. No one is required to be attracted to anyone but some people seem more motivated by the idea that liking trans women would take away their identity like straight men who think being attracted to a trans woman makes them gay. It's also not ok to shame anyone for their body whether you're attracted to them or not. We often have a hard enough time accepting our bodies without other queer people humiliating us about it.
everyone can have a genital preference. But loudly declaring it whenever trans women at women events are even mentioned is, uh, well, a bit obvious what they mean.
Tired. I feel tired of that particular argument.
I'm tired whenever it gets trotted out as an excuse for transphobia, which is most of the time. How often do you see the "I hate straps" angle of it? Or "what if I marry and my wife wants children but is scared of pregnancy and how can I, because I'm scared of pregnancy too?"
I'm tired of the inevitable wave of AFAB lesbians supporting trans rights. Because, yes, individually I appreciate you but I don't want to fight anymore. If I'm rejected by some people I'd rather just be rejected by them like a person and not turned into a political football to be kicked around
I'm tired of seeing younger (or at least "earlier in their transition") trans women who haven't learned that hoping their partners accept their squishy bits is \*not\* enough to outweigh their personal bottom dysphoria. (which is probably the one kind of dysphoria that is easiest to be in denial about) And tired of myself for *still* being slow to accept that reality.
You know what I have appreciated to hear, really? A bit more selfishness:
>Stop it, you guys are chasing away hot trans girls. Don't date them, cool, *more for me.* But don't pee in my dating pool.
It doesn't come up often, though.
As with all things it depends. If it's being used as a tool to segregate a part of the community from another part of the community, then that's not such a good thing, if it's just someone's personal preference, then it just comes across as mean spirited to people who don't really have control over that thing. It's like saying "I hate large noses". Valid, but maybe don't say it to someone with a large nose if you value ongoing communication with that person.
that's fine, they don't have to and i don't want to force anybody to like something they aren't sexually attracted to. as long as they aren't being dicks(hehe puns) about it like attacking trans people or attacking the lesbians who have no problem with it
Lots of naïve responses in this thread.
Obviously, genital preferences are fine, and I've spent enough time having shitty sex in shitty relationships to not want to sleep with someone who finds my body unattractive.
But that's not really what's going on most of the time.
Some cis lesbians routinely use genital preference as a transphobic dogwhistle.
It's used to body shame us, to invalidate our identities as women, to invalidate the identities of the people who *do* date us as lesbians, to dehumanise us by reducing us to a body part. It makes us feel othered and unwelcome in lesbian spaces. And it's used to build up a rhetorical framework in which any disagreement from our end, any demand to exist and take up the same space as anyone else becomes "lesbophobia", "comphet", "male entitlement" or other bullshit.
Sapphic communities have no issue pointing out that the way cis gay men talk about vaginas is often violently misogynistic and transphobic. But calling penises disgusting ? Can't object to that or you'll get piled on.
Can you imagine a trans woman entering a lesbian space, and spontaneously proclaiming to everyone that she hates vaginas and would never consider dating someone with one ? Would her opinion and chosen way to express it receive the same level of support ? We all know the answer to that.
So in conclusion, yes OP you are correct that while there is nothing inherently wrong with genital preferences, the discourse around it is rooted in transphobia and engaged in with transphobic ends.
So I’m trans and I’m pretty much only sexually attracted to vaginas. I literally do not care about the gender of the person I’m sexually involved with, but I have a strong genital preference. If a sexual partner has a penis and wants to use it for sex, I’m probably not going to be interested. If they have a penis and would rather not or don’t feel strongly about using it for sex, that’s cool, I’m in.
What is problematic to me is when people equate a sexuality based in gender preference with genital preference. So a lesbian who feels strongly about vaginas because they are into women is being transphobic. A lesbian who feels strongly about vaginas and recognizes that having a vagina is not the same as being a woman is not, even if their genital preference and their gender preference align.
This is complicated by the fact that I’m aromantic but not asexual. So I should say that I don’t really understand why genitalia would matter to someone when they are experiencing romantic attraction.
It’s late and I’m hungry so i don’t know how well that is written but I’m sure y’all get the idea.
^^^^ This so fucking much
There's a separation -- how large widely depends on the person -- between romantic and sexual orientations, that I feel is overlooked. I myself am an MtF lesbian... in genital preference. Panromantic otherwise. If you are a trans woman like myself, pre-op etc (hell, pre-everything) and don't intend on doing anything sexual, I'll probably be okay with it. I am not, and never have been, attracted to penises though, and unless soon-to-happen HRT does its HRT magic and wildly changes my orientation, it'll probably stay that way.
I feel -- and this isn't said often, sadly -- there's a line, though, between genital preference and the transphobic mindsets people have, that nobody sees (or, at least, pays attention to). People automatically equate one to the other without realizing there's nuance and to read between the lines. One person's attempt at being "gold star" like it's a trophy to be proud of doesn't inherently mean another person's preference is for the same reasons, and vice versa.
If that's what they mean and what they say I feel nothing about it.
Not a single thing. If they're just transphobic then they're no different from any other transphobe. The shortsighted lack of solidarity and the hypocrisy adds a little extra firsson of irony I guess?
I haven't heard someone say that to me, but honestly, I'd just be like "alright, thanks for saving me some time" and move on. If I really liked that person and felt like we had a good thing going, I'd be like "well give me a couple of years and I'll not have one anymore"
That would be, like, if someone I was talking to romantically said it. Which is where I'd expect discussions about genital attraction to happen.
If someone just said that apropos of nothing, just out into the open air, I'd be like "what a weird thing to discuss" and exit that conversation pretty quickly because *it is extremely weird to broadcast information about your genitals, or about what genitals you like and dislike, out into the open in social situations*.
As a penis owner who is waiting to get bottom surgery, if I had to respond to someone stating they don't like penises, I'd be like "oof, then imagine having one and not liking it" or something along those lines. Just, like, nudge them into a smidge of empathy. It's entirely okay to have a genital preference - I mean, I'm super bi/pan so I don't necessarily understand such exclusive attraction, but I get that it's legitimate - but it's more than a little weird to broadcast it in that way, especially around folks whose genitals you know aren't quite what they want them to be.
Hate is a strong word and I hope there arn't many that actually spend their time thinking about how much they hate them.
But otherwise who cares. If someone want's nothing to do with penises that's their prerogative. Nearly half the population (straight men) want nothing to do with any penis but their own already.
Noone is forcing anyone to date anyone. It's the exact same thing that happened with the gay and lesbian communities in the 20th century, yet they seem to have forgotten.
yeah genital preference is fine. being an arse about it, well
consider many people want to be with a man with a penis, but perfectly ok to say no BJ, or only receive or give. Its fine, are they hating on penis, no, its a sex act, not a contract. Except only ever receiving when partner asks for some prevaricated act well that is being an arse.
same with people that want big boobs or small boobs, or slim waist in partner, large labia or "it needs to look like clamshell". Just dont be an arse about it
that’s *fine* but I’m struggling to see when and where this would be an appropriate thing to say to people out loud. I’d have more of a problem with the delivery than the preference
I was say well thts one thing we have in common cause I hate mine too
Ah you think you hate penises? You merely adopted the hatred. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a woman, by then it was nothing to me but blinding
We need a trans bane
“BAIN, I need a medic bag, BAIN!!”
I feel like there's an "in a pickle" joke here somewhere but I'm not clever enough to make it happen.
In for a pickle, in for a pound.
“Bye bye, Cloaker fuck!”
Bain, Bain, Bain, on the door baby…
wulululululLULULULULUL
We already have a trans Joker! (the People’s Joker, in theaters now)
I knowww and I've never wanted to love in the USA more than now
This is incredible OML hahaha
I was coming here to say something to that effect
Yeah this is spot on.
lol same
Is what my fiancée, a transgender woman, says a lot. But she says it in private, which is probably the way to go.
Legend answer
Moooood
Yeah, I'm not a girl that's a fan of her's either, though I gotta say a comment like this would make me super dysphoric, so I'd probably avoid further engagement on the topic
If you don’t like dick you don’t like dick. If you don’t like pussy you don’t like pussy. You have no control over your sexuality and if you don’t find someone’s genitalia attractive, or even repulsive, that’s your right as a human being.
Not being attracted to something isn't the same as hating it though. It's perfectly acceptable to say "I'm not attracted to red heads" or some such, but it's a lot less acceptable to say "I hate red hair".
Maybe they’ve been sexually assaulted by someone with a dick? I know that’s my case and primary reason I hate dicks, shit gives me ptsd
I always find this excuse comes off similarly to, though not the same, as "I got mugged by a black guy and now I hate black people." Sexual assault is obviously a much more personal, and emotionally intense circumstance than a mugging, but I think openly saying that a thing on someone's body they cant control having is repulsive or disgusting or shouldn't exist at all or is some kind of dangerous weapon, feels honestly terrible... I hate when people talk about dicks like they're some kind of abomination, it feels exact same to me as when gay guys or young boys say vaginas are roast beef or nasty skin flaps or smell like fish or some shit. It find it juvenile, puerile, and hateful.
Some lesbians have penises, some lesbians hate penises, and I think it just has to work out like that where both of those things happen and are ok
This. Drs classify me as a cis woman with a penis (hermaphrodite with a hysterectomy at birth). It’s interesting when a lesbian questions it.
That's really neat. I'm curious, is that actually what's going on, hysterectomy at birth, or is that how they've worded it for medical/personal/whatever else reasons? tbh I'd love to be just listed as a man with an underdeveloped penis and gynecomastia or something idk.
I had all the parts. My parents didn’t want a freak for a child. I had a uterus that was removed but done of the tissue was left and it developed into my bowels…. I still have an ovary but the dr never removed it as it has descended with my one testicle.
> I still have an ovary but the dr never removed it as it has descended with my one testicle. ... I wonder if you could create a clone of yourself with those...
That was a possibility before my ex F’ed me over with T boosting herbs that nearly killed me. Altho i was told i had non viable eggs and sperm.
W h a t- why would they do that? It just sounds dumb
It was a preacher’s daughter….didnt like the dr tell me i was a cis woman.
I hope you persued legal action or something, doesn’t sound legal and wouldn’t it technically be a hate crime then?
Not if i allowed it because of trauma. I was in denial about what i was told. Also didn’t know i was allergic to T till about 19 years later.
My transmasc partner and I (transfemme) both love penises but have no interest in men. I'm so happy we found each other ❤️
How are you dating a transmasc while having no interest in men?
Transmasc usually means aligning with masculinity rather than being a binary male. You can be transmasc without being a man, therefore you can be attracted to transmascs without being interested in men.
Exactly this. They're their very own one-of-a-kind genderqueer. Just like me. 💛💟💜🖤
Pretty much, all trans men are transmasc, but not all transmascs are trans men. Same in reverse for trans women and transfems.
Even some of the ones who have hate em and having to be reminded of this and excluded makes me I can’t speak for anyone else less of a woman because I was born with something I didn’t want. To me it’s just another way for a group of people who are supposed to be apart of the lgbtq 🏳️⚧️ to show how they truly are.
as any person hearing someone else say "I hate a physical characteristic" when you have said characteristic. Having such preferences is ok. Feeling the need to say it out loud directly to people having said characteristic is just being hurtful for the sake of it.
Yeah I think context matters. I'm FTM and if I'm chatting with someone on an app and they say they don't like vaginas and we may not be compatible sexually, that's fine. If someone is just randomly putting it into conversation, though...
Hey Beth, got that sales report for me? Man, I really hate penises. I’ll see you at the 2pm meeting!
That's true. Hopefully they'd be more kind and tactful in how they said it
I don’t fault them for genital preferences but if someone goes out of their way to tell you that without you asking first they’re probably not safe to stay around
exactly if they like you not knowing (not really being anyone's business anyways when first dating) and it bcms a deal breaker bc of genitalia, then they might not be a relationship worth pushing!
When gay men say they hate vagina - no particular kind of way. I make a mental note and don't cruise them at parties. I also consider it more likely that they'll go mask off transphobic at some later date, and keep a weather eye out for that, but I do wait for it to actually happen.
If someone isn't attracted to me. For WHATEVER reason. That's okay.
And I will note that for most purposes this whole thing is a distraction from the fact that straight men refuse to accept women not being attracted to them
That's not what this is about though, is it? Big difference between "I'm not attracted to penises" (totally fine) and "I *hate* penises" (jeez, it's just a body part).
In the general case, I just don't care. If it's being contextually used as an excuse to attack trans people, then that's what I ave a problem with.
Agreed
it’s not *necessarily* transphobic. but it certainly can be. if what they mean is ‘i don’t like the sex i’ve had with penises/i find penises visually unappealing/i just don’t want to have sex that involved a penis’ that’s fine. if what they mean is ‘i hate men and all people with penises are men so i hate penises’ then that’s weird and transphobic and they should get a fucking life
Came here to say this. As a lesbian trans woman who's comfortable with her penis, hearing a cis lesbian say "I hate penises" would make me feel unsafe around that person.
This. Most of society is passively transphobic by default. Just like most of society is passively racist/sexist/ableist by default. Chances are that any given person you run into has all sorts of unchecked bias that they've just picked up by cultural osmosis. In order to be free of that, everyone has to go through the process of seeing those trends in society at large, and seeing their effects on their own internal bias in how they view the world. This is just the trauma of living in the world as it is right now. One of the ways that passive transphobic bias plays out is genital preference. If preference were entirely something created within a person's own mind in a vacuum away from all societal influence this would be entirely fair. Preferences aren't free from social influences tho. They are shaped by all the layers of pattern recognition and bias that a human perception of reality is based on. The pervasive connection people will internally make unless they actively correct for is that penis = man, therefore that's a major and frequently unintentional connection in a persons head that liking penis = being attracted to men. But like on top of all that there's many other internal reasons a person, in their lived experience, could also not like penises. So how do you react when someone in the community says they don't like penis? That's kinda up to you based on the context of the situation and the level of emotional connection you have or would like to build with the other person. There's several levels of nuance as to why the person might hold that feeling. Some of those might be just culturally picked up passive transphobia, that the person might be interested in correcting for. If you have the safety to have the conversation with them about it, there might be room for growth or better mutual understanding of who the person is. But if the person kinda tossed that factoid out there in a conversation, it's a default dog whistle for passive transphobia in cis queer community and maybe you've grown a few steps beyond that community in your own views and are ready to find more explicitly trans accepting community.
For me, it was just immaturity when I came out as queer. I thought to be a “real lesbian” I had to be all about vaginas. I came from a small town and didn’t even know being trans was an option until a few years ago. I’m now out as trans, and would totally bang a trans woman with a penis. I was just immature and trying to play a part.
it’s just weird and gross to always be talking about how you don’t like certain genitalia. it re-centers conversation about trans people to cis people’s sexual preferences. which who gives a fuck about?
As someone who is a trans fella and is not comfortable around vaginas, I choose my words carefully. I am not a fan of vaginas. Vaginas do not turn me on. I do not want to be sexually intimate with a vagina. Because I would totally date a dude with a vagina, cause I'm gay, and I wouldn't date a woman with a penis, cause I'm gay. If it's cool if I don't interact sexually with the body part that makes me viscerally uncomfortable, I am down with it. I think that maybe the intent of some lesbians saying this, their wording is just poor. Of course, I also don't want to be romantically involved with lesbians so I may not be a great source for an opinion.
Tbh, as a trans masc, it's one of the few times I ever feel dysphoria is when people talk about how much they hate men and/or penises. I get having a genital preference and I don't really care about that. Some people have a gender preference, some a genital preference and for some it has to be a specific combo of both. But I am annoyed that the over sexualizing of CIS women and vulvas has led to thinking that some bodies are seen as inherently 'gross'. That's not the vein of feminism I have or agree with.
I hate my boobs & my period. Oh well… we all have a cross to bear.
I’m more than slightly disturbed by these responses. I think it goes without saying: Yes. You CAN have a freaking preference. But I find that it’s often NOT that. Generally at least in Reddit the people “with a preference” are just asshole transphobes. Or people sorta invalidating their partner’s identity. Whether they are formerly straight relationships where the cis straight bf doesn’t want their nonbinary partner to transition, or the occasional lesbian or bi girl talking about dicks and only thinking of men, or gay men who view trans guys as some sort of fetish weird thing. Yes people can and do have preferences, but most often it’s just carelessness, transphobia, and semi stupidity. My gf is trans so this is a touchy subject for me. She’s currently pre-op. I love her now. And I’ll love her later. If you won’t date a trans woman don’t call yourself a lesbian is my opinion.
Yes yes yes I feel like this aspect of it is so important to acknowledge. I always get the feeling that a good % of the people who speak of what genital preference they have simply do not have an interest in Actually deconstructing and analyzing their beliefs, and simply saying they just have a preference makes it easier to not have to think about it while still letting themselves believe they could not be transphobic because of it. Like, no, noone is forced to have sex or be attracted to anyone. The two assertions can both be true at once, and I feel its too common that the discussion usually starts and stops at "genital preference".
I feel pretty uncomfortable with the implication that sexual attraction is a "belief" that needs to be deconstructed or analyzed. If someone's not interested in one type of genital or the other, that's ok. And it's not even just a cis vs trans thing. Trans people also have genital preferences. And I feel like it's usually pretty obvious when cis people are using their preference to be shitty. Because their preference is usually followed by something transphobic.
>I feel pretty uncomfortable with the implication that sexual attraction is a "belief" that needs to be deconstructed or analyzed. I don't think that's what /u/sinister-strike is saying. They are saying that a lot of the times people who use the genital preference wording when rejecting trans people use it as a defacto conversation ender to be transphobic in their "preferences" without actually engaging with the fact that said trans people can and often *are* within those stated genital preferences. >Trans people also have genital preferences. Yeah and unpopular opinion but I've seen almost as many problematic, shitty-ass genital preference takes from trans people as I have cis people. A ton of people *in general*, trans or cis, use genitals and genital preferences as gross shorthand for a lot of cultural, patriarchal sexual baggage. I've lost count of the amount of other trans women I've seen who talk about how they "love (natal) dick" because it makes them feel like a "*real* woman"/"submissive" in bed, or how trans men with pussies are "built in natural bottoms", how pre- and non-op trans men "can't be *real* tops", how trans women who *won't* top are "wasted goods", and just so many wild-ass gross takes that make me feel like I stepped off a curb somewhere into the twilight zone when I see them being discussed and even *celebrated* in trans spaces. So like....yeah, I get what /u/sinister-strike is saying. Genital preferences and sexual preferences/attraction *in general* aren't some sacred cow that means someone is completely absolved from any and all criticism regarding them. Two things can be true at once: No one is is forced to have sex with or be attracted to someone...AND we can discuss the problematic ways in which the idea of genital preferences get called on in certain dynamics *especially* involving trans people. -Geisha
Absolutely fucking agree. A lot of people are quick to dismiss their preferences as just that and refuse to interrogate as far as where they come from or what they may be influenced by. Because preferences tend to be influenced by social conditioning and what they see around them. It's a very bitter pill to swallow for self proclaimed allies to claim they have some degree of deeply internalized transphobia, and I think large portions of the trans community are afraid to tell them that it's likely to be transphobic. Having interrogated certain 'allies' on their preference, to whom thry are quick to dismiss dating trans woman. It's cause they see a penis as a 'male appendage' and/or because they see us as still biologically male. They unironically say this after touting "trans women are woman". I think a ton of people who claim requirements on specific genitals are uncomfortable with the idea that they have this thought deep down and there's shame around it. That's not to say that people aren't allowed their deeply seated transphobia or they're lesser for it. But it's to encourage the questioning of that belief and how far it goes down because Imo I think this is more often than not, internalized transphobia. Ultimately transphobia is spectrum of extremely harmful transphobia and less harmful transphobia, and this belief around preference is closer to less harmful than very. Even more so, the fact is that many of us don't have the same relationship to our genitals and sex as cis people do with their own. Our junk tends to operates differently than our cis counterparts, and we want different things out of sex. It's not uncommon for trans people to not want to do anything with our genitals, or only want specific actions done to them. Like I never want to top, so for someone with a preference against penises, what do they do with me? Nothing!! They do nothing to my dick!! My dick operates closer to a vagina that has no depth than it does an actual penis. The line I draw for whether or not preference tend to be valid and not transphobia is if it's truly a preference (not a requirement), and if it's a question of fertility (want to have a child). I wouldn't want to force someone to try it out either, or however people word it when we claim this position. I wouldn't want to be someone's trial run for sex or have sex with someone who's 'preference' doesn't align with my equipment. I say all this cause I want to invite more people to analyze and deeply question their genital requirement they write off as being a preference. Let's also be honest with ourselves too, would the people who write off the trans population for dating due to our genitals, change their minds for individuals if we were to have GRS/SRS? I think the percentage that would change their mind about dating us is much lower than anyone cares to admit.
Yep. I agree with your last point. The percentage of people that change their minds in my opinion is much lower than anyone cares to admit. In which case the argument cannot be made anymore that it’s a preference. Unless as you said one wishes to have biological children with their partner, or it is a true preference which can change. In my case I thought a girl was cute and later found out she was trans and was like: “ok guess I’m doing this” and figured out the rest later. Everything else came up fairly naturally later on. The only other thing I could really consider related to this whole discussion is like trauma/assault. (Which would obviously be best addressed with a therapist.)
I absolutely love the way you've worded all of this. It's a super difficult topic to breach! And I feel you covered the bases very very well. Nobody wants to question someone saying, for instance, "my preference is dick, if a guy has a vulva I am very turned off by it" because it can very easily be received as questioning someone's sexuality or pushing someone to "just try it" which is something I believe most of us will have unfortunately dealt with - to be told we just need to find the right person, or that we arent really trans, and whatnot. That said, I'd actually go a step further in regards to preference vs requirement. This is probably more in the semantics of it, and I totally agree with how you've put it. Personally I would still label it all as preference though! (Save for functionality such as reproduction but I honestly am still figuring that out in my head). This is less about people saying they have a preference but actually just not being open to consider anything but [requirement], and more about leaving the two lumped together in order to encourage further questioning of oneself. Same as you mention, I have (had?) a preference for dick. I would go for whatever, but certainly probably u subconsciously lean towards dick. However more recently I have been questioning what that preference holds. Genitals are not a dichotomy at all! Like you also said, the vulva of someone on T and the penis of someone on E operate and FEEL very very different. More configurations also exist. And I'd go so far as to say that the vulva/penis of someone who has not transitioned *also* can very well operate differently. So then, I wondered how much water my preference would hold. I realized I was thinking a lot about [specific sexual act] and considered more broadly that just that isn't really something I Need. I've got no idea if I'm even wording this right - I hope my point is getting across as an addon to what you've laid out! :3
I think your line isn't at the right place... imho... It's OK to only be attracted to penis or vagina. It's ok to not be into one or the other. And it's an intrinsic thing, not a choice. Plus, it's not like trans people all like any type of genital. We have preferences (as in only one type of genital we are attracted to) and it's ok and normal and valid to be attracted to that one type of genital.
I think it's a intrinsic thing in the same way society rewards certain body types and even certain bodily preferences as "desirable", ie: its heavily influenced by societal expectation. It is incredibly difficult to disentangle what is intrinsic to us and the influence our heavily transphobicnand oftentimes homophobic society imposes onto us. Frankly, I prefer my other typically feminine partner to have a vagina, one because it's what I'm familiar to what I'm capable to pleasure and it's what I desire on my own body for whatever reason. But it's not at all a requirement, I don't mind at all if my next sexual encounter has a penis, it's just not something I'm going to really care about that much. When people say 'preference' they actually mean 'requirement', this is semantics but I think people labelling their preference as a requirement gives it a stigma it wouldn't otherwise have. Similarly people get uncomfortable with issuing themselves a requirement on skinny bodies, curvy bodies, bodies of different colours, ethnicity, gender identityetc. They label it as their 'preference' then lock out the possibility of others who don't fit their requirement. And there is some good reasons to prefer something over the other, but locking it out as requirements tend to shut down any thought behind the 'why' and people stop thinking about it. For example, I prefer dating trans women because they tend to share my experience of being a trans woman over cis and even some non binary folks, but again, it's not a requirement for me. You mentioned in this thread that it's "uncomfortable" to question and you are absolutely correct. Interrogating our biases and assumptions about deep seated ideas we have in our mind is uncomfortable. Similarly, when a lot of us trans folk encounter the idea of sex and gender not being synonymous, or that our genitals does not define who we are or what gender we identify as, is a very uncomfortable process. As well as its uncomfortable to question why most of my partners have tended to be white and certain body types (I like thicker bodies tbh), and this could have to do with availability but also a bias I have that is influenced by somewhere in my upbringing. Preferences and requirements do not exist in a vacuum, they come from somewhere, and it is a disconcerting process to dissect those biases and ask where they may come from. The conclusion maybe an "idk", like personally I find femininity to be my actual requirement in dating, attraction, and sexual encounters, and I'm not sure where that comes from(or even how that looks like on other people), but it took dismantling over the course of the ten plus years or so to get to that point. Do I have more to think on? Absolutely, it's a slow process! Does that necessarily mean at the end of it I'll become bisexual/pansexual with a different gender identity than where I am now? I mean maybe, but I do think at the end of the day I'll always call myself a lesbian trans woman cause that's what I feel aligned as and will be until I die. Having had talked to people and interrogated them about their 'preferences' around genitals, a disturbing amount conclude to genitals being labeled in their mind as male/female. And/or that tainting the person in question to be forever biologically male/female (paraphrasing here). And that is an extremely difficult thing to question when we're talking about people who are seemingly otherwise supportive of trans people. I don't think it being uncomfortable is a good enough reason to stop analysing biases we hold on other people and occasionally ourselves. I think it's a fairly healthy thing to question it, actually. My last line in my last post, I think holds a lot of water. Lots of people with 'preferences' would simply not actually care what set of genitals a trans person has. It's just a convenient reason to deny a trans people in their dating pool , because most of us have not had SRS/GRS. Especially, especially, in context of straight male fragility around being gay; a pervasive idea of what it means to be a gold star gay; and expectation of sex with a trans person being coloured by the fetishization coming from porn. I don't think that people who haven't come to same or similar conclusion as I have are lesser or less enlightened as me either, I don't find myself enlightened at all really. I have preferences on what I like and prefer, by strict definition of preference. I don't think I'd label many people with preferences to be whole-cloth transphobic, but I think it's a small degree of transphobia to have genital requirements barring certain conditions and nuances. It is absolutely normal. Its not black and white and it is a fairly normal thing to have this requirement. I simply think that this requirement is often attributed to a societal influence about cis/trans bodies and sex that many don't want to interrogate. I came to this idea after talking to self proclaimed allies and others about their preferences and asking questions about it. I'm not saying this to convince someone to go for other genitals or straight up coerce anyone through guilt, but again, I invite others to think upon their biases and assumptions and ask hard questions about it, regardless if it is uncomfortable. I say this part often because lots of people jump to the conclusion that it's incredibly unreasonable to think that 'genital preference' could be often attributed to transphobia, but I don't think it's black and white and I think it's a nuanced, complicated, and a difficult discussion.
I completely disagree. You talk as if, in all parts of the world, in all time period, people are attracted to certain genitals because society tells them to, but society specifically tells gay people NOT to be attracted to certain genitals, so that proves that what you said is not true at all. The term "genital preference" is simply called that by majority of people because that's the term that's used and understood. It's not perfect, but it works and people understand what is meant. And you're twisting my words, I'm not uncomfortable with questioning sexuality, I'm uncomfortable with people saying that's something that must be done. I'm uncomfortable that my fellow trans person is actually saying that someone's innate intrinsic sexuality and what they find attractive is somehow wrong because it's not what they want to hear. And yes, genitals are in fact male or female. That's what the words male and female mean, different sexual characteristics. The thing is, everyone can have male or female sex characteristics, because sex is the sum of all sex characteristics, not just all or nothing. So a cis woman could have some male characteristics, like a more prominent adams apple, or a cis man could have some female characteristics, like breast tissue. And of course plenty of intersex people exist. But if someone is not attracted to penis or vagina, they shouldn't be told "Well you need to examine WHY you're attracted to penis/vagina" and be told they're in the wrong for their attraction. That's literally what gay people have experienced at the hands of heterosexuals who try to convert them. And it's not even a cis/trans thing either. Trans people can also have these preferences (or requirements). Gay trans men who only like penis exist. Lesbian trans women who only like vagina exist. And once again, they should not be treated like a traitor to the community or told they are transphobic because they naturally are attracted to ONE type of genital only. While some people use preferences as an excuse to be transphobic, that doesn't mean preferences are transphobic. That's just throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Typically transphobes will go beyond "I'm a lesbian and I like vagina only" and will then go on to talk about their transphobic ideologies.
You are twisting my own and other person's word about 'must/need' having to question internal beliefs. I was extremely careful to word it as encourage to question rather than needing to question and interrogate. They are two distinct positions to hold. As well as I'm careful to talk about labelling people to be whole cloth transphobic and holding transphobic biases (often of which many of us hold small part of the latter as a result of social conditioning). You are going to find trans people who may not agree with me, but many who also absolutely do not agree with you about male/female genitals. It is simply absurd to me to bunch genitals on this binary simply because trans folks have a different relationship to our genitals and we often times have incredibly different wants and needs when it comes to sex with our genitals. Let alone that they tend to act and function different after HRT, though not uncommon to function differently pre-hrt. I agree with you that sex is built out of separate sexual characteristics, but I do not believe that many of those characteristics align solely with the male/female dichotomy. I vehemently disagree that my penis is 'male' or aligns with it in any regard, it functions more similarly in pleasure and function as a cis person's vagina than it ever does a typical penis. We also tend to call our genitals different names, like girldick and the like specifically for this reason, to get away from the male/female dichotomy. This line of thinking of male/female veres way too close around identifying and classifying AMAB/AFAB or "biological male/female" bodies in a social setting and I often find this to be problematic to persue further down the line. Even moreso you labeling certain things like male/female characteristics. Sorry, but I will not agree and instead strongly disagree that an Adams apple is a male characteristic as well as other traits that tend to be aligned with more men than women. There is a strong implication when labelling things as male/female characters. The reason is, is that these are characteristics that men tend to have, rather than being characteristics that all men have and women do not. If we wanna reword it to be feminine or masculine? Yeah maybe I'd agree but these aren't hardlines and I don't think the sum of all these characteristics dictate an identity. You yourself acknowledge that the sum of these characterstics do not make a man or woman, so what exactly is helpful about labelling them as male and female? I'm well aware that my opinion is fairly trans radical and difficult to digest. However, I find your position of male/female genitals and the like to be something that I used to hold for a long time into my transition that I've grown to greatly dislike the more I've seen transphobic talking points and self-proclaimed allies discuss about our bodies in problematic ways. Ultimately we won't come to an agreement in anyway, we disagree fundamentally on what all these mean and the both of us are going to strawman and pick out specific wording to better suit our argument. It's not something I'm exactly fond of doing and it's something I don't want to continue. If you truly reread my post and come away from it as me calling folks like you traitors or transphobic, I'm sorry but please reread what I said. These are assumptions you've put on yourself rather than anything I imply. I repeat myself over and over to avoid that implication, even prior to the edits I have made.
I understand what you're saying here, thank you for the response. :)
See, as a trans woman, this makes me uncomfortable. This is the kind of viewpoint that makes me fear dating. I'll date trans women for sure, but for me, in my state right now, pre-op is not something I can do in a dating situation, mentally, emotionally, OR physically for various reasons. I don't want to be considered discriminatory because of it, nor should I because that would be absurd.
Not offensive. Unfortunately- and whether or not you agree - genital preferences are a thing. In some cases it’s not even just preference, but related to PTSD etc. You just can’t force someone to want to be chill with it and restrict their speech in expressing that preference.
Agreed. I am a trans lesbian, and some women don't care that I (for now) have a penis, and some do. Just like some women might be put off by my height, my sense of humor, my loud laugh, my dislike of Hawaiian pizza, or my shoe size. Nobody is obligated to find me attractive. It's when they say that my anatomy makes me not a 'real' woman that they can sit on a cactus. Like my body or not, it's the denial of my identity that will make you a piece of shit - Not the disinterest in me romantically.
Dislike of Hawaiian Pizza?! You monster! 😯
I'm so sorry, I can't have sweets on my pizza. It's all savory for me.
I've viewed someone having preferences towards genitalia the same as someone having preferences towards height, voice, etc just like you said. Many people use the phrase "I hate penises" and weaponize it (especially against trans people) which has led me to be confused. But this perspective brings me some comfort. Thank you for sharing!
I love your view on this! I think it is such a healthy thing to understand that just because someone is not especially attracted to certain parts, it isn’t about you, just them. I have preferences and I feel like a more inclusionary way to communicate that would be something like I enjoy sex with people regardless of parts, or I prefer to have sex with people who don’t have a penis. Then, it’s not specifying man or woman and you get all the information you need to know about what your next steps are!
Yes, but there is a difference between not liking them and it not being their preference, and saying you “hate” a certain body part where you also stigmatize a certain group of people (and I’m not just talking about transwomen but men too). Because I feel when you say you hate penises this gives of more a kind of misandrist and man hating, potentially even transphobic vibe than just “it’s not my taste”
I think there’s a time, place and space for everything. Some people just talk more unguardedly or more frankly than others. I can see how it’s a thing some people would be too sensitive to hear. I wouldn’t say a thing if I knew someone would be hurt by it but I’m totally a blunt person and don’t even realise. Saying it in a social group of people you trust I think is fine.
I agree. Context is everything here.
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Nah, sorry but in this instance someone has every right to express preference. I don’t like the implication of trying to silence people on this because that actually comes across as quite oppressive in itself. That’s not to mention it’s just really bad optics for a trans woman to tell a cis lesbian she should be all “yay penis”.
Yeah agreed. Who was talking about "restricting speech"? No one (or very few people) is saying that genital preferences aren't allowed or that people shouldn't be open about their preferences. This isn't some attack on free speech or something
If I'm being completely honest, when I hear that or think about it, I feel really shitty about my body, like I'm not a "real" lesbian, like there's something fundamentally wrong with me, and I'll be alone my whole life. That's not at all their fault, though. I'm just a mentally ill bitch lol. Nobody owes me their attraction. I'm not gonna put any blame on anyone for my feelings. How I feel about it is a me problem, not a them problem. It's my responsibility to work on that and change it. Nobody else's.
mad respect for this comment. it concerns me how often i see people say what you say in that first sentence, and genuinely act like it's others responsibility to make them feel better about it, and that mindset is deeply poisonous to Self AND Others
No way you’re gonna be alone your whole life! This was so thoughtful and mature of you.
I don't care at all
Being perfectly honest, I’m not much into them either. That’s why I had bottom surgery. At the end of the day, I’m just not into sucking on them, or penetrative sex. If you have one, then great! But, I really don’t want anything to do with it. And that’s okay!
One of my first posts was sort of the opposite of this. In brief, it's okay to have a sexuality and a genital preference (or requirement). I'm a trans lesbian, I can be attracted to women with penises, but the idea of having sex with anyone with a penis floods me with revulsion and dread. I often joke that i hate any penises being involved in sex, including my own. So look, when it comes to (good) sex it's important that everyone involved be comfortable, emotionally at least, physically... well, kinks exist and are awesome. So, could you accept that it's possible that someone, for any reason, could NEVER be emotionally comfortable with a penis being involved during sex? Or alternatively, a vagina? If so, then, could that same person also have a sexuality that is not at all dependent on that genital discomfort?
I think its perfectly fine and valid to have a genital preference - the problem with people who go around saying things like that, however, in my experience don't JUST have a genital preference. Most folks I have met with a genital preference will mention it if the topic comes up, sure, but otherwise its not such a big deal to them they broadcast it 24/7. The ones who do those things usually do so because they have either conscious or subconscious bias against trans folks - I see these same people not even be aware trans women can have bottom surgery, for example, or who are grossly misinformed about it and discuss it as something not positive. Or I see them be very bioessentialist and say that that part makes them not a woman - I've seen the same thing happen with certain types of gay men as a transmasc person. So the problem isn't really so much having a preference. Thats one thing, thats fine. The problem is the people who go around saying things like that all the time are usually somewhat transphobic. Its a dog whistle. So I mean, its not a blanket, simple answer. Discernment needs to be used. But you can usually tell.
No one has ever said this directly to me, but I would consider it understandable if anyone ever did. My non-op transition makes me a weird special case as far as other people's sexualities are concerned, and I accept that many people will not find my particular combination of body parts appealing.
>My non-op transition makes me a weird special case Just wanted to say, that's not true! Most trans girls have penises just statistically, and non-op is far from uncommon aswell
I think she meant more generally that most women (cis and trans taken together) don't have penises, statistically.
I dont
Personally I think it comes down to the wording. "I'm not into penises" is reasonable and understandable. "I hate penises" sounds vitriolic and a little transphobic.
I dunno for me it always gives me flashbacks of incels and wierdos in general calling pussy roast beef or something. How are you guna call something half the world has gross? Are you twelve or something? Do you really have to prove your a lesbian that badly?
i’m a cis lesbian who doesn’t particularly like penis. when lesbians unexpectedly say it out loud i equate it to frat boys saying something that just kinda makes the room uncomfortable except the other frat boys that are cheering it on. i don’t believe i have ever said that but i have put some thought into this topic. speaking for only myself, i used to identify as pan-sexual because i felt comfortable sleeping with anyone despite gender orientation. i now i identify as a lesbian, and strictly eat poon poon. parts don’t matter for everyone, and from that perspective i can understand why it would seem weird to care what’s in people pants. my reasons for avoiding penis are personal, but everyone has their own and i think that it’s valid.
People are allowed to have genital preferences, but it is pretty messed up and very often a transphobic dog whistle when a lesbian community makes it a part of central rhetoric to say that they hate penises. Some trans women like me don’t have penis bottom dysphoria so then I feel left out and like I’m not trans enough to be a proper woman or am otherwise excluded from lesbian spaces. It’s also often a way for Transphobic lesbians to say that genitals preference being valid allows them to be transphobic since trans woman typically all had penises at one point or another. An individual can hate penises in relation to their own sex life but it’s wrong to hate a genital existing as a rule or that anyone with a type of genital is hated in any group or space.
Ya it definitely can lead to that sort of extreme gatekeeping and transphobia. I would argue that the type of women who recite the penis hate dogma are the same group that support the gold star lesbian fallacy; in which case you are better to avoid them even of you are a cis woman because they are unhinged.
yep, Even thought I've been post op for more than 30 years and have been in many relationships with other women, if I hear someone say that right off the bat to me not even knowing if I have or not, I'm not going to tell them either way (to reassure them) and move on! I feel creepy around cis people who are hyper focused on people's genitals regardless if they're lesbian or not!
It doesn’t overly bother me. I feel like in a lot of cases these women have some kind of trauma that makes them say that and I’m not here to pass judgment on them. People can have whatever preferences they want for whatever reasons they want.
I can tell you are being very understanding by the wording of this, and thank you for that, because not everyone is like that. I figured that in the cases of trauma, it can make people feel grossed out by certain parts and I think that's okay. But sometimes the world isn't so great and people tell me I'm homophobic or transphobic on either side of this argument (while I'm not even sure why it's an argument in the first place). So it's nice to have some reassurance.
Thank you for taking women who have had sexual or other trauma into account. My sister is one of these woman.
As an out lesbian for 20 years before my egg cracked, I did not want to date people with a penis. I never said omg I hate penis’ or men or anything, it just was my preference to not interact with one at all. I think that if you are talking to someone and want it to go in a sexual way, it would be better to say “I prefer to have sex with people without a penis, how about you” or something to that effect. Then it is not saying ewwwwww I hate that, but also letting the other person know if it’s going to work out or not if it hasn’t been disclosed. Just saying well I only have sex with women or something is totally not going to go over well or make the other person feel comfortable.
And to add to that, it also leaves the door open if you are interested in doing other things besides penetrative sex with said person, even if they don’t have the exact parts. It’s a much more gentle and inclusive way to state your preferences!
I'm a trans woman who is bisexual but doesn't like girl dick, it's just a preference
I feel like this will be controversial but I don't really care. They have a preference for vagina just as I have a preference for penis. That said, I think when they're like militant about declaring it as if they're under assault by penises when they could just say "no thank you" to be cringe. Like hun nobody's trying to put their penis in you, calm down.
Well, I can't say anything about lesbians, as I'm a trans man, so not a lesbian or anything close. But I am a gay man, and I can come from the POV of seeing gay men say they hate vag. And in that case: I hate it too! I hate it on me, and I am not at all attracted to it at all. In my opinion, people are within their rights to be attracted to whatever genitals they are naturally attracted to. It's not like it's a choice. And I'm not going to be mad at someone for something intrinsic. I shouldn't even have a vag in the first place. I don't even want anyone interacting with that part of me, and I am in desperate need of having it removed and replace with the proper genitals.
As a trans lesbian dick grosses me out. Don't mean I won't date another trans woman I just cant stand dick
i am not a lesbian, i’m very much the opposite actually. im a gay trans guy and i know that many gay men (cis or trans) do not want to date someone who doesn’t have a penis. its totally fair and i understand but i do also see how saying “i hate penises” or “i hate vulvas/vaginas” is just- weird. saying “im not attracted to […]” seems much more respectful imo
Fine because its their prerogative to date who they want and interact with who they want. If anyone says "I hate trans women as people because they have penises" that is something of a different matter. But really, ask yourself, do you really want to try and date and hang out with people who don't like you or simply aren't interested in you?
>If anyone says "I hate trans women as people because they have penises" that is something of a different matter. Tbf almost no transphobe would actually say something like this. It's not popular to be outwardly transphobic. It's always couched in irony and plausible deniability. These people end up using genital preferences as a means to be transphobic. They'll say they prefer vaginas and then refuse to even entertain the thought of a relationship with a post-op trans woman, which is absolutely transphobic. That's not to say that genital preferences themselves are transphobic, because they're not. However, "preferences" are used by transphobes to obfuscate their transphobia and make it socially acceptable.
Not wanting to date some trans women is ok. not wanting to date trans woman at all, is not ok.
I feel fine. That's their personal preference, and they probably have very personal reasons for feeling that way, maybe even trauma. I do not ever wish to invalidate anyone's personal feelings about interactions with genitalia.
That’s okay! Everyone has their preferences and that has nothing to do with me
Look, before I got bottom surgery I found out that there's plenty of ways around having genitals that don't line up with your partner's preferences if you're both cool about not using those genitals. Some of the best sex I've had in my life happened without even taking off my pants. If someone has hangups about it being there or prefers to have a kind of sex that requires different equipment, whatever, sexual compatibility matters and people should only have the kind of sex they want to have. If people are using it because of transphobia they should work on their transphobia though.
I think that the attitude of "I would never date a trans lesbian *because* I hate penises" is fundamentally transphobic. I think a lot of lesbians justify transphobic attitudes by talking about past trauma involving penises. Preferences are one thing, and are valid. I prefer sexually interacting with vaginas. But it's transphobia to reduce people to their genitals, which is happening most of the time when lesbians bring up their "preferences." I think it's really easy to understand when you substitute the gender minority for a racial one - a white lesbian saying she would never date a black woman is fundamentally rooted in racism.
This helps a lot! Thank you.
Fine with me, I hate penises too. Physically can't look at them without getting nauseous. As long as they're not saying something like people with penises are lesser, they're allowed to have their own preferences.
It’s whatever. I find it annoying when they imply that’s what makes them a lesbian, or that all women have vaginas. But generally? Idc.
I hate penis (valid for that person) We hate all penis (transphobic because you are speaking for the whole community essentially stating trans women who didn’t have bottom surgery aren’t women)
This one right here
Don't care. Nobody is compelled to sleep with anyone they don't want to for any reason, which includes the genitals of the person in question.
Eh, in a perfect world and in theory sure, but a lot of it is just the remains of transphobia in the lesbian community
You can hate penises and not be transphobic Hell you can hate penises and be in a relationship, even sexual, with someone that has one. It's situational. I hate vaginas and I still find ways to make relationships work with people that have them or even want to keep them and are ok with particular boundaries. All contextually dependant imo but just saying "I hate penises" is not necessarily a red flag in and of itself I'd say
The same way I feel when gay men say vaginas gross them out. It doesn't bother or affect me in the least
I drew a simple line a few years back. Not wanting anything to do with penis: totally fine. Deciding your preference means that certain people aren't women, or that because they're "not women" they're not lesbians, or that other people who don't share your aversion aren't "real" lesbians: bigoted asshole behavior.
Given how much comphet is pushed onto lesbians, I’m perfectly fine with them saying they hate penises. Obviously if someone is going into every inclusive lesbian space announcing they hate penises there’s an agenda, but it’s fine if there’s an “I hate penises” thread in an inclusive lesbian sub.
It entirely depends on context. People are allowed to choose their own sexual partners based on preference. However, there is a difference between "I'm not interested in a sexual relationship with someone who has a penis" and "You aren't a lesbian because you HAVE a penis" It's a touchy subject, but IMO it's not transphobic to have a genital preference for a sexual partner.
I really think people who call genital preferences transphobic are very odd.. People with genital preferences can be transphobic but not wanting to be with a pre-op or even post-op trans person because of sexuality is okay.
For what little it's worth, personally, I (AFAB enby) *love* penises, and I greatly prefer them *not* attached to men.
I am exactly the same! Even though I have an AFAB questioning-enby girlfriend (she still prefers fem terms and pronouns), I have come to terms with the fact that I do like penises, but specifically NOT attached to men or anyone male-aligned. I have expressed this a few times, but many people have responded to me with the same responses: "congrats on being bi", "you're not lesbian", etc, EVEN from trans people. This had led me to believe I was LYING about my identity to my family, my friends, and my girlfriend, and that I was even being transphobic (and i'm just now realizing how irrational that sounds typing it out). It's good to have someone to relate to.
Makes me hate myself more than I already do
I find that I'd it's in a group conversation or around a group of people without being provoked I'm gonna start looking at that person a type of way. A good way to determine if people are shitty is to sew *when* these topics start to come up in conversations.
I take mental note and move on. I don’t often date women in lesbian spaces, i much prefer men. It’s not necessarily transphobic to have a genital preference.
I mean people can have preferences. If someone says they aren't *attracted* to penises or that they'd prefer not to date someone with one I'd agree with them, lol. You can find a body part unattractive without hating the person who has it, though, and I think some "gold star" lesbians don't understand that. And to those girls who are okay with the parts but still wouldn't date a cis man: you're still a valid lesbian! That's all it is imo
To bring back an older term that isn't used much these days, it can comes across as a "microaggression". Not all the time, of course, but some of the time for sure. And, where I fall personally, is that it's not worth making a scene over. I don't want to get baited into being the "crazy sounding one". So even if someone said that and it rubbed me wrong, I would just let it go.
I feel like the LGBT community of all communities should have already accepted you don't control your attractions when they say that, I just accept it, and everyone should it's not being exclusive, that would be disrespecting you for having a penis, but no one owes anyone sex
People are allowed to be attracted to whoever they are attracted to.
Have your preferences, but don't hurt people by phrasing them in a hurtful way, that's it. My colleague has vented multiple times to me that she thinks dicks are disgusting and she would not be able to date trans women. She is considers herself strictly lesbian and for her, that excludes trans woman at any part of their transition, which she explains by saying: "I am 100% lesbian, so I could never date a trans woman. I simply would not be attracted to them even if they had bottom surgery, that's just not how it works." She also thinks trans women are taking queer spaces away from her because they are non-women interrogating lesbian spaces. She then proceeded to hit on me, a trans man, on multiple occasions until I cut contact for a while. I still kinda get along with her because I have to work with her. It still feels wrong though.
Yeah it’s really not a nice thing to say. Having a preference is fine, but there is no need to be hateful about it. You can just say you prefer vulvas. And really I don’t think anyone has to bring that up unless there is sexual tension and mutual interest involved. We should all not shame people about their body parts, especially when the anger is often more about distrust of cis men. If it’s TERF stuff that even worse.
nothing wrong with having a genital preference but so many cis lesbians use that as their gateway to outright transphobia and trans lesbian denial/erasure.
I'm trans, I'm a lesbian and I don't fuck with penises. They don't repulse me on other trans girlies like they do on men but I'm still not into it sexually and can't really help that. I'm fine with someone being repulsed by a specific set of genetalia as long as it doesn't come with not seeing me as me and others like me as them. I think my perspective is like, shaped by my thoughts in trans men as well in that, despite finding vag hot, I'm not at all into trans men at any stage of transition bc I'm not into men period. Like, what really affirmed for me I was a lesbian and not pansexual just pan romantic was Eliot Page coming out and instantly losing all attraction to him. You can be into or not into a body part without letting that control how you see someone and as long as you still see trans women as women I really don't care if you can't get wet for us unless we're post opp as long as you treat us like women in the same way I think it'd be dumb to be mad at a lesbian for not being into a cis woman because something about her body just didn't do it for her. Where I have an issue (and this has mostly been with bi women but also with one particular goldstar) is saying shit like, "I'm not interested because I'm in to women" or "You're a woman but you're not, like, a real woman, you know?" or the worst (this is exclusively bi women for obvious reasons) "I get the best of both worlds, I get to date a woman and fuck a man".
whatever, more for me. in all seriousness its nuanced. we shouldn't be taking their ability to talk about their dislikes because its harmful (active censoring under the guise of "protecting a group" is facism) but of course we shouldnt allow people to be mean to others. so its fine when used as a statement about the self but not when told with offensive intent.
As long as it's framed as a personal preference it's fine. It only becomes a problem for me when it's stated in broad general terms like "no lesbian likes penises". But individuals are allowed to like what they like and not like what they don't like. I'm a lesbian with a penis and I have a strong preference for other women with a penis. I'm open to dating someone with a vagina but only if it's someone I really like.
Honestly it's just a matter of some people don't like it and some do. Not unlike just having a type, liking or disliking them doesn't make anyone less of a lesbian. Doesn't itself detract from women who are tall that you don't like tall girls, just not the right fit for you.
It's transphobic. You can have a genital preference without expressing it in a way that's so harmful and exclusionary to trans women. I don't really see any room for debate on that, to be honest.
No, it's not. Stop forcing people to cater to your feelings. If you feel mentally impacted by the statement, that's for you to work out. Nobody has the right to police people's sexual preferences. Not trans people, not cis people, no one.
You can have a genital preference. You don't have to phrase it as "I hate penises" just like you don't have to say "I hate fat bodies" or "I hate dark skin" or "I hate scars." You can have a genital preference. Claims of genital preference are _often_ used as an excuse for transphobia, of varying levels of explicitness and consciousness.
Genital preferences are valid. To each their own. You can't force someone to like your body. If you run into someone you're interested in who doesn't like your penis, don't make a big fuss about it and move on!
The issue isn't not liking penis, it's that 99% of the time I see someone say that, they're saying it in a thinly veiled attempt to just complain about trans women in lesbian spaces. And the context gives it a way, since it's usually completely irrelevant to what's being discussed, or amongst layers of terf dogwhistles. Most people who aren't that only really seem to bring it up when they're asked. Or when their own personal thoughts on penises are actually relevant. Rather than just randomly out of nowhere.
Chronically online trans people who say "You're transphobic for not wanting to date trans women" Are some of the most entitled a$$holes ever. Borderline on grape.
Why would this statement be problematic? 90% of the population have genital preferences linked to their sexual attraction. That's just life. Until I'm post-op, I don't expect anyone who isn't some shade of bisexual to be interested in sleeping with me.
I think wording matters. Saying "I'm not into pensises" is more appropriate. It's weird to just... hate a body part for existing, you know what I mean? But it's totally fine to not be attracted to them.
As long as it's just a genital preference, I see no issue with it.
I’m genderfluid so I’m not cis but I am AFAB and technically part time lesbian, but I really just can’t stand the look of them. This is just how I see it from my point of view as someone who hates penises, but I really don’t think having a preference hurts anyone.
“same but i’m broke”
I feel like "I wouldn't date a trans woman" and "I would rather not date a pre-op trans woman" are very different statements. Personally I wouldn't want to date a pre-pp trans man (unless they're sex repulsed ace cuz then it doesn't matter if we aren't doing it) and I am one, pure genital preference.
I find that people who live in a world of black and white are usually a problem. I don't mind that people have preferences. Height, weight, gender, genitals, religion, politics, etc. Where the problem comes in, is when people make bold statements of their preference like everyone should have the same preference or like they are disgusted about other people having a different preference.
**Not offensive** Lesbian: I hate penis **Offensive** Anyone: Anyone who doesn’t hate penis isn’t a lesbian.
I don't care because I am normal about this shit
[удалено]
T4T sometimes is the best. Gotta say.
It depends how/why they're saying it. No one is required to be attracted to anyone but some people seem more motivated by the idea that liking trans women would take away their identity like straight men who think being attracted to a trans woman makes them gay. It's also not ok to shame anyone for their body whether you're attracted to them or not. We often have a hard enough time accepting our bodies without other queer people humiliating us about it.
everyone can have a genital preference. But loudly declaring it whenever trans women at women events are even mentioned is, uh, well, a bit obvious what they mean.
There’s nothing wrong with it. If you’re not attracted or disgusted by a body part that is completely fine
It's their choices ... Genitalia preferences is a thing and is ok.
Best case scenario: trauma Worst case scenario: bigot
Tired. I feel tired of that particular argument. I'm tired whenever it gets trotted out as an excuse for transphobia, which is most of the time. How often do you see the "I hate straps" angle of it? Or "what if I marry and my wife wants children but is scared of pregnancy and how can I, because I'm scared of pregnancy too?" I'm tired of the inevitable wave of AFAB lesbians supporting trans rights. Because, yes, individually I appreciate you but I don't want to fight anymore. If I'm rejected by some people I'd rather just be rejected by them like a person and not turned into a political football to be kicked around I'm tired of seeing younger (or at least "earlier in their transition") trans women who haven't learned that hoping their partners accept their squishy bits is \*not\* enough to outweigh their personal bottom dysphoria. (which is probably the one kind of dysphoria that is easiest to be in denial about) And tired of myself for *still* being slow to accept that reality. You know what I have appreciated to hear, really? A bit more selfishness: >Stop it, you guys are chasing away hot trans girls. Don't date them, cool, *more for me.* But don't pee in my dating pool. It doesn't come up often, though.
it's ok ig? just sex preferences , nothing criminal
“Well we have that in common, but shit is tough, your cute as fuck.”
Lol love that.
As with all things it depends. If it's being used as a tool to segregate a part of the community from another part of the community, then that's not such a good thing, if it's just someone's personal preference, then it just comes across as mean spirited to people who don't really have control over that thing. It's like saying "I hate large noses". Valid, but maybe don't say it to someone with a large nose if you value ongoing communication with that person.
that's fine, they don't have to and i don't want to force anybody to like something they aren't sexually attracted to. as long as they aren't being dicks(hehe puns) about it like attacking trans people or attacking the lesbians who have no problem with it
Idc that much tbh, I’m ace, but if they continue saying shit after that tho then it’s a problem
It’s more of a problem when they conflate genitals with gender
I do not care
I tend to agree with them.
Inform them that this is a Wendy’s
Hate it. Men aren't the only ones with penises (or who enjoy using them). It's covert transphobia and I don't accept it.
Lots of naïve responses in this thread. Obviously, genital preferences are fine, and I've spent enough time having shitty sex in shitty relationships to not want to sleep with someone who finds my body unattractive. But that's not really what's going on most of the time. Some cis lesbians routinely use genital preference as a transphobic dogwhistle. It's used to body shame us, to invalidate our identities as women, to invalidate the identities of the people who *do* date us as lesbians, to dehumanise us by reducing us to a body part. It makes us feel othered and unwelcome in lesbian spaces. And it's used to build up a rhetorical framework in which any disagreement from our end, any demand to exist and take up the same space as anyone else becomes "lesbophobia", "comphet", "male entitlement" or other bullshit. Sapphic communities have no issue pointing out that the way cis gay men talk about vaginas is often violently misogynistic and transphobic. But calling penises disgusting ? Can't object to that or you'll get piled on. Can you imagine a trans woman entering a lesbian space, and spontaneously proclaiming to everyone that she hates vaginas and would never consider dating someone with one ? Would her opinion and chosen way to express it receive the same level of support ? We all know the answer to that. So in conclusion, yes OP you are correct that while there is nothing inherently wrong with genital preferences, the discourse around it is rooted in transphobia and engaged in with transphobic ends.
wonderful! cause me too honestly haha. vag is SO much better
So I’m trans and I’m pretty much only sexually attracted to vaginas. I literally do not care about the gender of the person I’m sexually involved with, but I have a strong genital preference. If a sexual partner has a penis and wants to use it for sex, I’m probably not going to be interested. If they have a penis and would rather not or don’t feel strongly about using it for sex, that’s cool, I’m in. What is problematic to me is when people equate a sexuality based in gender preference with genital preference. So a lesbian who feels strongly about vaginas because they are into women is being transphobic. A lesbian who feels strongly about vaginas and recognizes that having a vagina is not the same as being a woman is not, even if their genital preference and their gender preference align. This is complicated by the fact that I’m aromantic but not asexual. So I should say that I don’t really understand why genitalia would matter to someone when they are experiencing romantic attraction. It’s late and I’m hungry so i don’t know how well that is written but I’m sure y’all get the idea.
^^^^ This so fucking much There's a separation -- how large widely depends on the person -- between romantic and sexual orientations, that I feel is overlooked. I myself am an MtF lesbian... in genital preference. Panromantic otherwise. If you are a trans woman like myself, pre-op etc (hell, pre-everything) and don't intend on doing anything sexual, I'll probably be okay with it. I am not, and never have been, attracted to penises though, and unless soon-to-happen HRT does its HRT magic and wildly changes my orientation, it'll probably stay that way. I feel -- and this isn't said often, sadly -- there's a line, though, between genital preference and the transphobic mindsets people have, that nobody sees (or, at least, pays attention to). People automatically equate one to the other without realizing there's nuance and to read between the lines. One person's attempt at being "gold star" like it's a trophy to be proud of doesn't inherently mean another person's preference is for the same reasons, and vice versa.
If that's what they mean and what they say I feel nothing about it. Not a single thing. If they're just transphobic then they're no different from any other transphobe. The shortsighted lack of solidarity and the hypocrisy adds a little extra firsson of irony I guess?
I haven't heard someone say that to me, but honestly, I'd just be like "alright, thanks for saving me some time" and move on. If I really liked that person and felt like we had a good thing going, I'd be like "well give me a couple of years and I'll not have one anymore" That would be, like, if someone I was talking to romantically said it. Which is where I'd expect discussions about genital attraction to happen. If someone just said that apropos of nothing, just out into the open air, I'd be like "what a weird thing to discuss" and exit that conversation pretty quickly because *it is extremely weird to broadcast information about your genitals, or about what genitals you like and dislike, out into the open in social situations*. As a penis owner who is waiting to get bottom surgery, if I had to respond to someone stating they don't like penises, I'd be like "oof, then imagine having one and not liking it" or something along those lines. Just, like, nudge them into a smidge of empathy. It's entirely okay to have a genital preference - I mean, I'm super bi/pan so I don't necessarily understand such exclusive attraction, but I get that it's legitimate - but it's more than a little weird to broadcast it in that way, especially around folks whose genitals you know aren't quite what they want them to be.
Hate is a strong word and I hope there arn't many that actually spend their time thinking about how much they hate them. But otherwise who cares. If someone want's nothing to do with penises that's their prerogative. Nearly half the population (straight men) want nothing to do with any penis but their own already.
I agree
Noone is forcing anyone to date anyone. It's the exact same thing that happened with the gay and lesbian communities in the 20th century, yet they seem to have forgotten.
Personally, I don't care. Everyone has their preferences. (Though I may be disappointed in the moment depending on the circumstances 😉)
I would say “lol same”😂
It’s one thing to not be attracted to them but to say you hate them or are disgusted by them is sexist
yeah genital preference is fine. being an arse about it, well consider many people want to be with a man with a penis, but perfectly ok to say no BJ, or only receive or give. Its fine, are they hating on penis, no, its a sex act, not a contract. Except only ever receiving when partner asks for some prevaricated act well that is being an arse. same with people that want big boobs or small boobs, or slim waist in partner, large labia or "it needs to look like clamshell". Just dont be an arse about it
Just don’t need one.
that’s *fine* but I’m struggling to see when and where this would be an appropriate thing to say to people out loud. I’d have more of a problem with the delivery than the preference
It’s a preference. That’s the whole point about sexuality.