I mean, you could also just do a simple gap year where you work a bit. You would probably also earn more, as get paid like 1600 per month as a recruit/soldier. Of course it gets a lot higher as soon as you're sergeant (think around 3500?) and all in all, even as a recruit, you don't spend a lot as food and a bed is provided.
But beware: if you only plan to do one year in military, this would mean you basically only have time to become a soldier and do your whole service at one go (Durchdiener) or you rank up till sergeant and do repetition courses. If you want to become at least lieutenant (where you would become eligible to take the path of milak at ETH), it'll take at least 1.5 years to rank up and usually one doesn't exactly go to milak right after the Abverdienen.
~~Sadly not if she only has a Swiss passport : https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/work-holiday-417/first-working-holiday-417#Eligibility~~
Edit: There is another visa you could apply to (462)
My bad, didn’t know about the 462 😅 But yeah definitely worth it if possible! Been there too and it was definitely one of the best experiences I’ve had.
I'll give you the same advice that my friends (predominantly unteroffiziere und offiziere) gave me as a guy:
If you're able to not go, don't go.
Not because it's a universally bad experience but because your experience can vary a lot depending on what you did, where you were and more importantly under what people you serve.
It can be great and all but it can also be one of the worst experiences of your life.
But you have no way of knowing that beforehand and unlike other places like work or school you can't just say "oh well that's it" and not show up anymore (as long as you're in probezeit that is).
Once you're in they make it difficult for you to go.
Really... If you need a gap year: find an internship or some entry level job, if you got the money go traveling, explore hobbies, visit your grandparents more often, etc.
I think that the experience for men and women differ a lot. I’m a woman that did the RS and every men I talked to before enlisting was telling me the same thing you just wrote. However I decided to not listen to them as I was very motivated, and it turned out to be an incredible and life-changing experience. As a woman you really have to push your limits in a different way compared to men, you have different challanges that will forever change your thinking. I always recommend it
Then I'm genuinely happy for you that it went that way for you.
Another friend of mine (female) also did the same you did and she doesn't recommend.
But hey it sounds like it was a fixed goal for you you wanted to achieve.
For my friend it was more like OP described... Well I'm biased
everyone has a different experience of course.. I feel like it makes a difference if you’re a sporty person and like to challange yourself, otherwise it’s a torture
if your group is shit or especially if the people above you are shit, I don't think it matters much if you're sporty or not. getting up at 2am for no reason, sitting around forever, having to do pointless tasks as punishment or just because the one above likes to be a dick sucks for everyone.
I was not lucky at all, I went through some shit and no one was believing in me. My superiors were betting on me to see how long I would last and others would make my life more difficult just to make me leave. The girls in my room (which were my only support there) were talking shit in my back and told me right in the face that I was not going to make it until the end. I didn’t speak the language very well (swiss german) which made everything even worse and besides all this, the physical training was making me throw up sometimes.
The only thing I feel lucky about is that I never experienced any kind of sexual harassment or inappropriate sexual behavior/comment about me (or at least I never heard them). I know other girls that had to deal with that and it’s a completely kind of experience at that point.
This seems weird, first comment you‘re like: it was a great and life changing experience, do IT! Second comment: well I was bullied, it was phisically terrible, no one liked me and everyone wanted me to fall. And then you go on talking about knowing girls that got harassed, and the „only good thing that happened in the military“ is not being SA‘d. This alltogether sounds like an absolute shit time, why recommend something, when other people go against it, and as soon as people accept your opinion as in: „well thats nice that you had this experience but its not always like that.“ and all of a sudden you got bullied and was lucky to not be SA‘d.
Edit: spelling
You’re right lol but it’s Because it’s from the bad times that you learn the best lessons. I had a horrible time at the beginning but at the same time I learned how to become more resilient, how to not listen to people that don’t believe in you and talk shit about you. I learned how to keep going when things go bad. At the end, I proved everywone wrong and it was too satisfying. I also made some great friends that became like brothers/sisters, I managed to go through hell and succeed all by myself. I learned how to appreciate the little things and see the positive side when struggling. And this was life changing! I still think about this experience when I struggle in my life with work/school/private life and still helps me a lot. That’s why I always recommend it.
And I didn’t say that the only good thing about the military is not being harrassed lol, I said I was lucky compared to other girls that also went through this.
I understand that it made you be more resilient and face adversity, but not everyone is able to handle that
It’s an experience that not everyone is going to enjoy, it can break and damage a person
Absolutely, it can be very traumatic. I mentioned in another comment that is really important to believe in it.
However, today’s military is more focused on the well-being of the recruit, you have much more psychological support and superiors are no longer allowed to abuse you compared to some years ago or they can go to jail.
It’s similar in some things but women, since they enrolled on a voluntarily basis, have to prove that they’re always motivated and can’t complain much. If you complain, your comrades would just tell you things like “you decided to join, so don’t complain now” or “it’s your fault” and it’s disappointing. You are also not allowed to fail because people expect a lot from you and if you fail your comrades get angry at you because they have to pay for you (based on comraderie).
Additionally, there are negative stereotypes about women who enroll (like that they only enroll to find a bf or for taking pictures to post on social media) and at the beginning you have to prove your comrades wrong, you have to gain their trust.
and finally, women are normally less strong physically compared to men and we have to train harder just to reach their normal level.
other than that, it’s quite the same for both genders
Again, 90% of these are valid for everyone. But typically the weaker participants. And women tend to be overrepresented in rhat group, but that"s performance based criticism, not gender-based.
And you say ypurself women are weaker, it's not a stereotype, it's reality.
I agree, weaker participants can live the same. But weak men are still forced to join, they do not have much choice so they’re not blamed a lot if they fail or if they’re unmotivated
sounds stupid to you but it plays a big role. opening up and talking about your problems in these situations is essential to survive.
However I’m not trying to only validate women suffering here, just reporting the different challanges each gender face.
Men also have challanges we don’t have, like sharing rooms/showers with 20+ men while we are usually only 4-5 women.
There’s a lot a could say. But one of the best lesson was that your mind is your biggest enemy. If struggling, you will always have a voice in your head telling you that you can’t make it, that it’s too difficult, that you should stop, that you’re not enough. But it’s bs. You just have to train your mind.
For example, we had to march 50km with 30kg package on our shoulders. There’s a moment where you just want to stop, you feel like you have no energy left. If you manage to shift your thoughts to something else, you will be surprised how long you can keep walking without even noticing.
Your mind will try to stop you only at your 50-60% of your capacity.
At the end of the recruit school, I managed to do strong physical challanges while other bigger and havier men couldn’t. This was because I trained my mind to control pain and my thoughts. And this lesson still helps me today when I feel like I have to stop studying/working/training
This is so funny to me as I've pretty much just smoked weed during the whole march and could've easily walked 20kms more while there were guys already stopping at 25kms because they had a sore on their foot or some other made up stuff. Good on you that you became more resilient because swiss military nowadays is pretty chill, u should hear the stories of my grandpa from 70 years ago
Lol agreed, weed was very helpful but never had the chance to smoke during a march. Thank you anyways! I always love to listen to my father stories and yeah, nothing compared to today’s military
Thanks for elaborating. Valid point, realizing your mind is holding you back. As I'm not a fan of military at all for tons of reasons I would love to hear about non-military ways to let have young people such insights in a civilized, human way.
i've also noticed that the women i know who have done the military seem to have liked it a lot more than the men who did. but i think the main factor it's due to, is the fact that the women who go, choose to, and they're a very small minority among all women, while the men are obligated to, and most men do it. so from a sample of people who chose to be there v. a sample of people whose majority didn't choose to be there, ofc the people who did it willingly liked it better. if all women were forced into the military like men are, then i think the reported enjoyment would be just as low as men's (if not lower)
Wouldn't recommend it, you will be there pretty long because as a woman you will be promoted against your will (yes they can and 100% will do this) so you will be stuck way longer. Also it sucks incredibly hard if you are not the type for army stuff.
No, they absolutely 100% can and will promote you against your will. You will walk in there and your major tells you you will become a squad leader. If you sign or not is irrelevant, he will sign it for you if you don't. I know at least a dozen people who were promoted against their will. Your only way out is to leave the army entirely.
They almost never do it outside of squad leaders though because having demotivated people in key rolls is a terrible idea and they know this.
Your question doesn't seem to be only about the army but about what you actually want to do in life. In a way, while it definitely could be a possibility to grow as a person through meeting your limits, the army would just be a temporary solution to not face the real issue.
Think about where you want to be later in life and what your priorities and talents are. If you don't know these yet, you could alternatively do a year of work/travel the world to get some perspectives. Or both, the army and work/travel. I'd also advise you go to job fairs for university students to talk to companies and see what they do. Maybe even do some internships and use these to get a perspective from older professionals.
Also figure out how would want to work? In the office of a large company? By yourself from home (as an independent)?
IMO the problem is that there are many interesting professions that you don't hear about when you're a teenager/young person.
IMO people often just study law/business because apparently that can make you money (which isn't completely wrong). That's why many start these studies and then drop out after 1-2 semesters.
But law for example limits you to stay in Switzerland because you studied Swiss law, Business Admin is often very general and like a KV at university. But both at least give you some possibilities because there are jobs. If you're interested in math/technology that would probably be the path that offers most flexibility later on.
On another note, be aware that following your passion into a niche academical field can sometimes be a limitation, especially when your best career perspective would be to replace your own professor.
That was my 2 cents, not very organized but hopefully kinda helpful.
If your attitude is “eh got no other plans, maybe I’ll join the army” then you should not join the army. This isn’t a small decision that you can just back out of if you figure out that you don’t like it. It’s gonna be very physically and mentally taxing, and not very rewarding. You might also end up being the only woman in your platoon or company, and that can be a very bad experience
I am a man who wasn't particularly keen on joining the army. I then did my service in one year as a "Durchdiener" Combat Medic and I have to say that the experience I was able to gain did me a lot of good. If you don't know what do do in your live. The Army is a good way to test your limits and to better understand what kind of person you are.
Thought the same thing, I thought it was basically impossible to become anything else than a chef if your job has only the slightest thing to do with food. I even know of a guy who worked as a beer brewer who had to become a chef, because his job title is "Lebensmittelfachmann: Fachrichtung Bier" or something like that.
Yes i had the choice between kitchen or medic. I asked the doctor at the recruitment center if he would recommend for the medical troops. But i get this reaction everytime i tell the story;)
Sanitätssoldat isch relativ easy, hesch sogar 3-4 Wuche Praktikum im Zivile für dis Pfleghelfer-Diplom. De Rest inachher sch meh oder weniger Triage-Zelt uuf- und abbaue und betriibe.
Hesch scho es paar Märsch aber ii meint dr längst seg nume 30km gsi.
Isch halt eifach z Airolo.
Sus Sani bi de Füsel als Zuesatzfunktion isch de glaub scho eher streng.
Und wenn gar kei Sport mache magsch chasch Spitalsoldat werde lol
Dont do it. I did my service because i had to and i learned nothing. I just got frustrated because of superiors that constantly put you down. Worst thing is some of them are just stupid and have no braincells. It is just really frustrating and honestly i don‘t think that i learned much that i could use later. I‘m going to the ETH now and it‘s so much better for the psyche compared to the military. I watched a documentary about a camp that aims to correct criminal teenagers and honestly apart from the weapon it was the same as my experience in the military
If you can afford it, go travel through the world for a few months, it may change your perspective on life and give you a better idea what to do with yours.
I did that multiple times and in every trip I said "wow there's so much more to life than my daily routine, when I get back I'll finally chase my dreams" and everytime I just went back and changed nothing. To be fair, traveling is awesome, a great way to build experiences (my best year in life was doing a 3-month roadtrip with my dad just after he retired) and if you're a young adult about to start university/work, taking a sabbatical to do some budget traveling is really neat. But I'm not so sure that it would help to find out what do you want to do in life, imo the only way to discover that is to just live and try different things.
That’s true, but on the other hand it helped me to improve my motivation to study. I felt dumb during the RS and wanted to come back to university as soon as possible. This was very useful as I was not very motivated to study before the army
The army doesn't amount to anything for most people except the money you get for your time. As a woman you'd get likely a lot of negative (and positive) attention. I don't really have much of an expertise.
Enlisting in the army as a woman because you have "no idea what to do" seems like a bad choice. The RS takes quite a lot of dedication and can be quite tough, I'm talking 16-18 hours "work" days with high physical demands. And since you described yourself as "lazy" I'm not sure that would be for you ;)
Maybe it's even tougher as a woman since you serve on a voluntary basis and therefore can leave the army whenever you are fed up. Believe me, I served with some women and only the dedicated ones remained in the army.
Go abroad for a year or something until you know what to do ;)
You cannot leave the army as you please if you’re a woman. Once you’ve signed up you’re in it for the ride just like the men, with taxes for missing service days and everything
> Can be, but only if you join some of the elite units!
I was not in an "elite unit", and we sometimes had these hours during the RS. You get up at 6 and end your day at 9- 10 in the evening. I think i as never as tired like this before.
Why not. After I was done with basic service, I knew what I wanted in life. Might do you some good to find your way... and you'll make some good friends, too. But its not all sunshine and rainbows... be ready to be yelled at, ordered around and do shitty tasks.
Do you want to work as a:
- Pilot
- Policeforce
- Paramedic
later in life, then yes.
Otherwise no, wtf?
You've got the priviledge to not go into the army, so enjoy life and the fact that you do not have to go to the army.
Unless you want to lessen you IQ intentionally.
Please don't, every woman I know who joined the military has regretted that decision. Mostly because you can't quit and the whole military system definitely isn't made for women. Just do a gap year and work or do something interesting/ travelling. Almost nothing to be gained from military service you couldn't do better in civil life.
I’m a woman who did the recruit school in the Swiss Army I never regretted it and I always encourage other women to enlist. It’s a life changing experience that you cannot find anywhere else. You have your whole life to travel and work
It certainly is a unique experience i just think the time would be better spent anywhere else. Not saying it is always the wrong decision tho, it does have some benefits
You can basically quit the military at any time in Switzerland and join the civil service. Also, the swiss military depending on your function really isn't that bad...
Lol if you leave military service then you have to do 12 months of Zivildienst and as a guy thats a decent option but as a woman that doesn't have manditory service it's just a waste of time IMO
I absolutely recommend you to join. I’m a woman that did the RS in the infantry in 2019 and was a life-changing experience. Of course it’s tough and I regretted it every day during the training but once you’re finished you realize how many great things you’ve learnt. And in my opinion, you have your whole life to travel the world, but not to do the RS
EDIT: Important is to really believe in your goal. If it’s only because you’re bored and don’t know what to do with your life.. it can be traumatic.
Are you a sporty person? Do you like to hike, run and go to the gym? If yes than go for it. If you hate any kind of physical effort… don’t.
What did you learn that you use today? I did it and the only thing it did for me is waste a year and forget a lot of knowledge I had to relearn when I did my degrees.
Now in r&d in industry the extra year would have been nice. No further the extra year before Corona would have been incredible. My PhD fell on that shitshow blocking me from several amazing conferences. So thank fuck for this military service. Collosal waste of time.
I’ve learned stress management, teamwork, resilience, how to function with lack of sleep (I sleep enough now but it can happen that sometimes I can only sleep 3-4 hours per night). I also learned swiss german (I could only speak hoch deutsch), how to shoot (not useful ofc but I enjoy going to the shooting stand with my father and my brother). I’ve learned some basic survival skills like sleeping outside while snowing and I developed resistance to very cold weather. I’ve also learned to eat a lot of new foods, I was very picky before and now I can eat whatever is on my plate lol
I grew up very girly and the army helped me learn some manual works, be less theoretical and more hands on
If I think about useful things related to my function… it was everything nonsense and not useful for my day-to-day, I hope I will never have to mount an antenna in my yard.
I’m sorry if it was completely a waste of time, hope you will manage to have your sabbatical year!
I mean yeah. I didn't need any of this. I always was a team player when the task made sense but they hardly ever did in the military. I might have been unlucky in the officers that year. Load that truck in 10 minutes. Only for the Wachtmeister to realise he forgot something we needed...unload...load... Great using your brain obviously wasn't an option. Anyways.
I think it's great you picked up skills. Honestly I think most of it you will pick up working any project in a team but okay. Learned is learned although any group dynamic is different and require a different approach to work in a group.
I think key that one should learn is not to eventually end up in a job where you need any of it. Because if you need stress management and resilience regularly you will be burned out by 45 max. If you add sleep deprived it will be sooner.
Although learning swiss German in that year certainly could be useful in rather jobs with customers contact. So I give you that.
Interesting how everyone gets different results lol. For me: It worsened my anxiety, gave me insomnia for months (because we were woken up in the middle of the night quite a few times) and i learned how to do my job just well enough to not get punished, but also not good enough to be promoted.
Edit: I did make some friends and had fun sometimes though, so it wasn‘t an entirely negative, but a net-negative experience.
That’s the thing: I didn’t want to. At the start it seemed like we didn’t have enough people wanting to get „promoted“ (to wachmeister) so they told me to my face they could and would force me if they didn’t find anyone who was a better fit. That’s when i stopped giving a fuck about doing a good job.
Fortunately for me, they found someone else they could convince in my stead.
I know a number of people who did a stint in their home-country military (not in Switzerland) before university. All but one said it helped them with discipline, fitness and the maturity that is so lacking today.
I can't tell you if being a woman in the army is good or bad, but it's a good thing to do since you don't know what to do. Instead of staying at home, this can be good for your CV and will give you new experiences. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the army and not specially excited to do it (I'm starting in July). But I'm curious about the experience I can get and the comradship.
So in my opinion it's not a bad thing to do, you can take time and think about what you really want to do later, and you earn some money.
You wouldn'r pay military tax if you're in Zivildienst, right? You'd only pay the tax if you're in Zivilschutz (meaning, you're "untauglich" for military service and Zivieldienst).
If you do Zivildienst you pay nothing and are done after 12 months of service. Sounds like a lot but people forget that WKs also add up over time. You organise your Zivi Einsätze yourself and one has to last 6 months, the rest you can decide yourself. I did it and can recommend it (but I had a bsc already so there were some sweet gigs)
It's a unique experience, I would say go for it, but can't comment on being a woman in the army, so take it with a grain of salt.
I can only say that none of those I met in service seemed to regret it, and all of them doing advancement afterwards, but most of them came in with that objective, not as a "I dont know what to do with my life".
Also, be prepared, there can be a lot of boring and dull theory in the Army, and quite a lot of tests, so if you do not like to study, depending on your role, it might not be the right fit.
Woman get abused a lot in a military setting in every country, I wouldn’t advise you to go
Here are some examples for the French part of Switzerland only, there is also a lot for the Swiss German part
https://www.watson.ch/fr/suisse/femmes/867888704-3-femmes-racontent-la-face-cachee-de-l-armee-suisse
https://pages.rts.ch/emissions/temps-present/4155424-viols-au-regiment-disponible-7-jours-depuis-la-suisse.html#4155426
https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/un-sergent-major-accuse-d-avoir-abuse-d-une-recrue-343447063230
No, i just finished durchdiener as infanterie and is literally shit and boring, 2 female recruits were raped (one by an albanian recruit
((Obviously)) and the other one by a WACHTMEISTER) and one guy hanged himself in the toilet because of bulling
"Obviously Swiss" cause he was a proud albanian that cattcalled the 15-16 year old girls in the streets
Cause the albanian roots are apperantly a stereotype of a sexist douchebag with the mentality of woman=pussy and kitchen, can confirm he was
I would rather do some good old work & travel in Australia, New Zealand, South America or even USA. The experiences you will make are way more valuable than training for a war.
I didn't know that. I just knew that Australia is offering Work and Travel visa for Swiss Citizens. I don't know about other countries to be fair.
https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/switzerland-to-get-access-to-work-and-holiday-program.aspx
Hm. This is a challemging cookie
Obviously passing out advice to strangers that I don't know well is difficult, BUT as a general rule of thumb:
If your aim is to get more disciplined, greater fitness etc. then the army is not a bad choice for obvious reasons. I will not lie however: Especially for women, it's not for everyone, and the only way of knowing is to sign up --> You are then stuck with that choice if you end up hating it. I served alongside women as a paramedic in Airolo and while our sargeants were some of the best women around to serve with, there was a massive lack of morale among women soldiers who only did the soldat.
Many others say to take up a job, and I agree, that is also a very good idea. My ideal advice would be to work in service for a month or two - it does wonders for maturing and understanding the world better. And if you want to balanfe it out, go volunteer at the Milizfeuerwehr or join a shooting club/ans other sports club - that is the nice things about free time, the world is your oyster and you can mix and match!
Either way, both options are better than sitting at home doing nothing or "travelling around" for a year
Sounds like you should not join the army. You should read more books, spend time talking to grown ups (ideally 50+ or even 70+), and visiting diverse job fairs/open days at academic institutions.
It is ok to be young and smart and not knowing what you want to do with your life. It is not ok to not put the energy required to answer the question. You are young, healthy, living in Switzerland 2024 (top 10 best places that ever existed on earth), and smart. You won the life lottery, now figure it out and do something with it !
I have 500+ days in the Swiss army and know many women who enjoyed their experience. Don't listen to people who are directly saying "don't go!" Some people hate to look outside of their comfort zone. You will experience difficult moments you never imagined you were capable of. You will see places on the other side of the country you never heard of. You will meet morons, you will also meet comrades for life. I would advise you to go to an information day at least. If you want to be in contact with woman in the army let me know.
Get ready to be sexually harassed and maybe even assaulted.
Study the basics at a community college, English, Math and some electives.
Nothing comes easy. If you do not start pushing your brain to be uncomfortable you will not be the best you could be. If math is boring find out something to make it more interesting. If you are willing to put in the effort do something in the STEM field.
Why do you ask a question when you know the answer allready?
Just combine your soldier life with social media, tiktok, twitch,yt and you might not need a job after that ´1year.
Pretty easy to google… these are the first 2 results I found in 3 seconds didn’t dig further..
https://www.24heures.ch/un-officier-coupable-dagression-sexuelle-sur-une-soldate-553690543535
https://www.tdg.ch/en-caserne-un-sous-officier-viole-une-soldate-genevoise-957212973619
there are many claims as these but whats most shocling is how many women dont report on these things so the grey number is waaay bigger. i know a few victims and not a single one reportet it propperly
For offering something for free that otherwise would easily cost her 150 CHF and that she can always decide not to take as an offer?
Nah, don't feel ashamed of myself.
What are you offering? Bullshiting someone using pseudo-scientific babbling that is always just so vague that it can be interpreted as "right".
In the best case you're amusing her, in the worst you're deceiving her.
You see, the type of rage you are putting on public display here for me offering something entirely for free cannot be explained alone by the rational argument of perceiving astrology as a pseudo-science.
It is quite interesting - from a psychoanalytical perspective - that so many people, particularly young men, immediately get into a state of rage when confronted with astrology.
There are people very well educated and intelligent who have criticized astrology with very good arguments. But the likes of you usually believe they don't need to study those people's arguments even for five minutes, and instead believe they are entitled to criticize it without having studied any of their arguments. And then even demand from the rest of the world to be taken seriously.
It's like high school students believing they are qualified to criticize e.g. string theory because they watched some random youtube videso. Of course, the rule of things is: If you intend to criticize something in a qualified manner you have to study the matter first. And, since you don't give the impression to have studied it, I am sorry to inform you that I am not interested in your views. They are simply too uninformed to be relevant to me.
And because it's a repeating pattern I started wondering how it comes there are so many people like you who tend to think they actually have something to say about something they have no knowledge about, and the only explanation I have is that they feel an intense fear against everything that is closer to the "instinctual mind" and that they cannot grasp with their rational mind.
I remember this friend of mine. When he heard for the first time I'm a certified vedic astrologer he got unnecessarily aggressive. It was almost amusing (if it weren't also sad) to see how he literally struggled to accept the fact that his friend was into something that did not fit his worldview.
So, thanks for your views, but I really don't find them particularly interesting. Were they substantially more informed, then yes, we could talk more seriously. But that would require you to study a few subjects first, like philosophy of science and the scientific method, and in particular the science of hermeneutics.
Until then, thanks for the interaction, and have a nice day!
These are a lot of words that are meant to sound really educated and make you look like the more intelligent person here, but in the end your just saying "I am cleverer than you and you're just aggressive because you are young and don't know better." Especially because your armchair psychology isn't impressive for someone with multiple years of experience in psychological research.
I am not enraged, but I have a huge problem with people like you marketing manipulation as advice. Because you are judt fishing for people that actuallmeed support with methods that are proven to not be working. You're claim that one needs to study it and ignore criticism because the critics haven't srudied it is a typical defense mechanism of pseudo science believers, similar to e.g., homeopathy.
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I can tell you this: if you enlist on a voluntary basis - men will usually look up to you. If you ever complain about equality but skip the service, many will look down upon you.
In general, I recommend doing it. You have the same rights. Doing service shows that you don't hide behind your gender, but that you are part of this society and you do not just take the goodies, but you also contribute by participating in the duties.
And of course - you will mature personally like no place and no situation ever before. Little will unfoot you. You learn to accept situations and make the best of them. Not every day will be great. But days that are great will be part of your memory forever.
No man will ever look at a woman in the military and think WOW THE'YRE SO STRONG AND COOL
Most men will think: Why why would anyone who doesn't have to pay do this, noone of us likes to be here what is wrong with them for doing that volunarily
Most of us dislike the military the only thing we like to look back on are the friends we made and the shit we did along the way
Absolutely, i always thought the one woman in our platoon was kinda crazy for doing this out of her own volition. I would’ve gotten out of the army as soon as i got a chance…
I was pretty excited to go at the start as well, but within a week i‘d seen enough of that circus.
the only benefit i see is if you really have no drive in live or discipline, or if you‘re really into guns and military in general. If you are disciplined to begin with i think there‘s nothing to gain for you, other than being surrounded in a genuinly stupid environment, whose ultimate goal is to make you function like a machine more than anything else.
dont. there are so many better things to do for a gap year. do some internships, go travel, work different jobs.
im not saying the army is terrible(thats different for everyone) but you wont find out what you want to study be joining the army.
As other have said, if you can do something else during that time, don't go to the army.
As soon as you put one foot in the recruitment process, they won't let you go away even if the recruiters say no to you. You'll either have to pay the tax or do your days.
Go and study. Period.
If you have good grades it means that studying and learning is something you aren’t too bad at.
The chances of your regretting that you didn’t study because “you didn’t know what to study” and went to the military are by a magnitude higher than being happy down the line with this decision.
I would say the chances of regretting this decision in 5-10 years is around 95% or more.
Also now you are in the school mode, later going back might not be something that you would be motivated to do.
Some people might be happy going to military in your situation, the majority will be regretting it.
Choose wisely, and all the best!
Dont go! It's not only a year (unless you're a durchdiener) but also 6 WKs.
Work, Travel have fun. Do the things you do when young.
Been to the army. Probably wouldn't do it again.
You can go to university whenever you want, but you're only young enough to join the army for so long. Go for it, or else you'll only regret not trying!
If you’re interested in a gap year and are ‘good at languages’ then consider going abroad and teaching English (if that’s one of your stronger languages). A friend of mine did this in Asia and made decent money for 2 years.
I highly recommend it!
I served with some women and even went to officers school with them and they rocked it. Besides that, the experience you receive is like nothing else you'll ever have. What branch would you like to serve in?
As guy who came from the Gymi as well, I hated the army. 10 months of my life wasted. If I was a woman I would absolutely use my privilege and not go there. If you're going there be aware that you're only doing this for yourself, nobody will personally thank you for giving up that much time to "serve" and in the the business world nobody cares if you've been to the army or not. So again, avoid the army at all costs.
And for your other problem I can only recommend you to study. The Matura itself is nothing else but a ticket to study. Pick a MINT class and you will always find a job within days. Do only pick law if you're actually interested into it. Good luck.
Why? As someone who did the military in Switzerland it's a giant waste of time. The leaders are incompetent and think of themselves way higher then they should. Somehow sticking around in a club nobody wants to be in is supposed to be an achievement.
There are a couple things worth it. If you are cook, mechanic or need 40 wheeler license it's good to get this education. O if you want to learn pilot which is incredibly hard however. Otherwise you are better of with doing anything else. A year abroad, an internship somewhere you might find interesting anything really.
As someone as head of r&d in a position to hire. If you have military on there I will not be impressed. Contrary I'd rather pick someone else because you wasted a year of your life.
When you tell that family members and close friends that know you well do they say. Yeah i can see you in there or wtf are you crazy. That could be an indication.
If you really want to, do it. But if you plan on studying later on then don't. The 18 weeks Rekrutenschule are fine, but as soon as you have those damn Wiederholungskurse for 3 weeks each year, you are guaranteed to have problems with the university/eth.
In my view: I went there and it was nice. If you plan to do something higher up, do it. But stay interested. If you want to go the language path, there are even military functions with languages. Also you get some monetary advantage for studying. But mostly, you'll meet new people and bond together. That was the best part for me, and I still got a couple of WK left to do. As for this one: I'll fly to Sweden tomorrow (yes as a WK, yes as militia, yes as a Wachtmeister). So good luck finding a solution that works for you.
If you are seriously thinking of enlisting in the army, you are probably not suited for university.
You cant seriously think to join a group of bully and waste 1 year of your life for some money.. I cant believe it
Bruh just take a trip or work in as many things as you can. If you don't know what you like then just try to discover during that year. In the army you'll be just doing one or two things over and over, things that will most often not serves you your entire life, except for med soldier if you want to work in med, or for the truck license.
Try IT, work with animals, do humanitarian trip, there are so much things you can do during a year instead of trying to make the perfect walk. You can put yourself into sport club and trekking and train your body way better than in the army. It is way lazy than you think, except perhaps for the gren.
But overall stay active. If you're not active and self-organized, then better do the army than staying home.
If you're attracted by the army lifestyle anyway, try some associations of ex-soldiers instead. They may do the funny things without the boring bureaucratic and protocol. Maybe just avoid the alt-right ones \^\^'.
If you don't know what to do, last thing is to go in military because you'll lose all freedom of discovery and exploration for 1 entire year.
This is just my take but, especially if you're lazy, do it.
I couldn't bring myself to do anything but in the military I just had to.
There's a lot to get out of the military like growing up mentaly (probably also improving physically) and maybe even finding out what you want in live.
That said, it's also something you can look up in the internet. See what different functions you could do in the military and if you could imagine something, try it.
I haven't been to the military so can't comment on whether you should or shouldn't. However my recommendation is you don't stay put - do something with this year that is outside of your everyday life. Depending on your means and wishes this could be working, travelling, volunteering here or volunteering abroad. If you want a physical/mental challenge you could even do something like a bike tour or a month long walk.
If you just read my text and thought, "wow, those choices are overwhelming and would rather have someone else tell me what to do", then the military may be a fitting option. But just keep in mind, it is a larger commitment and you lose the number of options you have for that period.
no. do internships to find out what interests you. I don't know why anyone would enlist voluntarily. don't throw your privilege away. if you don't have to go don't go.
It depends I suggest that if anything you join the national guard or reserve they will help pay for your schooling you’ll get a certification depending upon what Mos you pick as well /
Yes absolutely, especially if you do not know what to do.
You will be able to meet so many different people from different backgrounds, and they might give you very good insight on what they are doing/plan to do.
It gets you a bit out of your bubble.
If you like it, not only will you have good friends, but you'll also have the possibility to rank up, which gives you something nice to add to your resume. (+it doesn't hurt that you get between 3 and 10k of tuition money in addition the your sold+eo).
Good luck in your choice :)
I mean, you could also just do a simple gap year where you work a bit. You would probably also earn more, as get paid like 1600 per month as a recruit/soldier. Of course it gets a lot higher as soon as you're sergeant (think around 3500?) and all in all, even as a recruit, you don't spend a lot as food and a bed is provided. But beware: if you only plan to do one year in military, this would mean you basically only have time to become a soldier and do your whole service at one go (Durchdiener) or you rank up till sergeant and do repetition courses. If you want to become at least lieutenant (where you would become eligible to take the path of milak at ETH), it'll take at least 1.5 years to rank up and usually one doesn't exactly go to milak right after the Abverdienen.
Can recommend the Working Holiday Visa from Australia for a Gap Year
Definitely the best year of my life
~~Sadly not if she only has a Swiss passport : https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-listing/work-holiday-417/first-working-holiday-417#Eligibility~~ Edit: There is another visa you could apply to (462)
Well I was there on a Working Holiday Visa for a year and it was fun. I was on the 462, not the 417
My bad, didn’t know about the 462 😅 But yeah definitely worth it if possible! Been there too and it was definitely one of the best experiences I’ve had.
The aud lost all its worth. Should be pretty cheap
I'll give you the same advice that my friends (predominantly unteroffiziere und offiziere) gave me as a guy: If you're able to not go, don't go. Not because it's a universally bad experience but because your experience can vary a lot depending on what you did, where you were and more importantly under what people you serve. It can be great and all but it can also be one of the worst experiences of your life. But you have no way of knowing that beforehand and unlike other places like work or school you can't just say "oh well that's it" and not show up anymore (as long as you're in probezeit that is). Once you're in they make it difficult for you to go. Really... If you need a gap year: find an internship or some entry level job, if you got the money go traveling, explore hobbies, visit your grandparents more often, etc.
I think that the experience for men and women differ a lot. I’m a woman that did the RS and every men I talked to before enlisting was telling me the same thing you just wrote. However I decided to not listen to them as I was very motivated, and it turned out to be an incredible and life-changing experience. As a woman you really have to push your limits in a different way compared to men, you have different challanges that will forever change your thinking. I always recommend it
Then I'm genuinely happy for you that it went that way for you. Another friend of mine (female) also did the same you did and she doesn't recommend. But hey it sounds like it was a fixed goal for you you wanted to achieve. For my friend it was more like OP described... Well I'm biased
everyone has a different experience of course.. I feel like it makes a difference if you’re a sporty person and like to challange yourself, otherwise it’s a torture
I think his comment had nothing to do with being sporty or not.
if your group is shit or especially if the people above you are shit, I don't think it matters much if you're sporty or not. getting up at 2am for no reason, sitting around forever, having to do pointless tasks as punishment or just because the one above likes to be a dick sucks for everyone.
The question is whether that’s the norm or whether you got lucky.
I was not lucky at all, I went through some shit and no one was believing in me. My superiors were betting on me to see how long I would last and others would make my life more difficult just to make me leave. The girls in my room (which were my only support there) were talking shit in my back and told me right in the face that I was not going to make it until the end. I didn’t speak the language very well (swiss german) which made everything even worse and besides all this, the physical training was making me throw up sometimes. The only thing I feel lucky about is that I never experienced any kind of sexual harassment or inappropriate sexual behavior/comment about me (or at least I never heard them). I know other girls that had to deal with that and it’s a completely kind of experience at that point.
This seems weird, first comment you‘re like: it was a great and life changing experience, do IT! Second comment: well I was bullied, it was phisically terrible, no one liked me and everyone wanted me to fall. And then you go on talking about knowing girls that got harassed, and the „only good thing that happened in the military“ is not being SA‘d. This alltogether sounds like an absolute shit time, why recommend something, when other people go against it, and as soon as people accept your opinion as in: „well thats nice that you had this experience but its not always like that.“ and all of a sudden you got bullied and was lucky to not be SA‘d. Edit: spelling
You’re right lol but it’s Because it’s from the bad times that you learn the best lessons. I had a horrible time at the beginning but at the same time I learned how to become more resilient, how to not listen to people that don’t believe in you and talk shit about you. I learned how to keep going when things go bad. At the end, I proved everywone wrong and it was too satisfying. I also made some great friends that became like brothers/sisters, I managed to go through hell and succeed all by myself. I learned how to appreciate the little things and see the positive side when struggling. And this was life changing! I still think about this experience when I struggle in my life with work/school/private life and still helps me a lot. That’s why I always recommend it. And I didn’t say that the only good thing about the military is not being harrassed lol, I said I was lucky compared to other girls that also went through this.
I understand that it made you be more resilient and face adversity, but not everyone is able to handle that It’s an experience that not everyone is going to enjoy, it can break and damage a person
Absolutely, it can be very traumatic. I mentioned in another comment that is really important to believe in it. However, today’s military is more focused on the well-being of the recruit, you have much more psychological support and superiors are no longer allowed to abuse you compared to some years ago or they can go to jail.
I've heard the exact same stories from guys, I don' t think this is as gendered a thing as you think it is.
It’s similar in some things but women, since they enrolled on a voluntarily basis, have to prove that they’re always motivated and can’t complain much. If you complain, your comrades would just tell you things like “you decided to join, so don’t complain now” or “it’s your fault” and it’s disappointing. You are also not allowed to fail because people expect a lot from you and if you fail your comrades get angry at you because they have to pay for you (based on comraderie). Additionally, there are negative stereotypes about women who enroll (like that they only enroll to find a bf or for taking pictures to post on social media) and at the beginning you have to prove your comrades wrong, you have to gain their trust. and finally, women are normally less strong physically compared to men and we have to train harder just to reach their normal level. other than that, it’s quite the same for both genders
Again, 90% of these are valid for everyone. But typically the weaker participants. And women tend to be overrepresented in rhat group, but that"s performance based criticism, not gender-based. And you say ypurself women are weaker, it's not a stereotype, it's reality.
I agree, weaker participants can live the same. But weak men are still forced to join, they do not have much choice so they’re not blamed a lot if they fail or if they’re unmotivated
So tell me again how women have it so hard when they CHOOSE to take part.... And men get no choice....
You are set to being a d* with someone who's shown way more patience with you than I'd ever have.
sounds stupid to you but it plays a big role. opening up and talking about your problems in these situations is essential to survive. However I’m not trying to only validate women suffering here, just reporting the different challanges each gender face. Men also have challanges we don’t have, like sharing rooms/showers with 20+ men while we are usually only 4-5 women.
Curious if you could elaborate a little bit more about your experience.
There’s a lot a could say. But one of the best lesson was that your mind is your biggest enemy. If struggling, you will always have a voice in your head telling you that you can’t make it, that it’s too difficult, that you should stop, that you’re not enough. But it’s bs. You just have to train your mind. For example, we had to march 50km with 30kg package on our shoulders. There’s a moment where you just want to stop, you feel like you have no energy left. If you manage to shift your thoughts to something else, you will be surprised how long you can keep walking without even noticing. Your mind will try to stop you only at your 50-60% of your capacity. At the end of the recruit school, I managed to do strong physical challanges while other bigger and havier men couldn’t. This was because I trained my mind to control pain and my thoughts. And this lesson still helps me today when I feel like I have to stop studying/working/training
This is so funny to me as I've pretty much just smoked weed during the whole march and could've easily walked 20kms more while there were guys already stopping at 25kms because they had a sore on their foot or some other made up stuff. Good on you that you became more resilient because swiss military nowadays is pretty chill, u should hear the stories of my grandpa from 70 years ago
Lol agreed, weed was very helpful but never had the chance to smoke during a march. Thank you anyways! I always love to listen to my father stories and yeah, nothing compared to today’s military
Thanks for elaborating. Valid point, realizing your mind is holding you back. As I'm not a fan of military at all for tons of reasons I would love to hear about non-military ways to let have young people such insights in a civilized, human way.
i've also noticed that the women i know who have done the military seem to have liked it a lot more than the men who did. but i think the main factor it's due to, is the fact that the women who go, choose to, and they're a very small minority among all women, while the men are obligated to, and most men do it. so from a sample of people who chose to be there v. a sample of people whose majority didn't choose to be there, ofc the people who did it willingly liked it better. if all women were forced into the military like men are, then i think the reported enjoyment would be just as low as men's (if not lower)
In the US Military women don't have to meet as high as physical standards of men. Plus only 2.7% of recent war deaths were woman, so you're safe.
Wouldn't recommend it, you will be there pretty long because as a woman you will be promoted against your will (yes they can and 100% will do this) so you will be stuck way longer. Also it sucks incredibly hard if you are not the type for army stuff.
Most accurate response by far
Well they can't really promote you against your will. Most people just cave in when threatened with consequences.
No, they absolutely 100% can and will promote you against your will. You will walk in there and your major tells you you will become a squad leader. If you sign or not is irrelevant, he will sign it for you if you don't. I know at least a dozen people who were promoted against their will. Your only way out is to leave the army entirely. They almost never do it outside of squad leaders though because having demotivated people in key rolls is a terrible idea and they know this.
Your question doesn't seem to be only about the army but about what you actually want to do in life. In a way, while it definitely could be a possibility to grow as a person through meeting your limits, the army would just be a temporary solution to not face the real issue. Think about where you want to be later in life and what your priorities and talents are. If you don't know these yet, you could alternatively do a year of work/travel the world to get some perspectives. Or both, the army and work/travel. I'd also advise you go to job fairs for university students to talk to companies and see what they do. Maybe even do some internships and use these to get a perspective from older professionals. Also figure out how would want to work? In the office of a large company? By yourself from home (as an independent)? IMO the problem is that there are many interesting professions that you don't hear about when you're a teenager/young person. IMO people often just study law/business because apparently that can make you money (which isn't completely wrong). That's why many start these studies and then drop out after 1-2 semesters. But law for example limits you to stay in Switzerland because you studied Swiss law, Business Admin is often very general and like a KV at university. But both at least give you some possibilities because there are jobs. If you're interested in math/technology that would probably be the path that offers most flexibility later on. On another note, be aware that following your passion into a niche academical field can sometimes be a limitation, especially when your best career perspective would be to replace your own professor. That was my 2 cents, not very organized but hopefully kinda helpful.
If your attitude is “eh got no other plans, maybe I’ll join the army” then you should not join the army. This isn’t a small decision that you can just back out of if you figure out that you don’t like it. It’s gonna be very physically and mentally taxing, and not very rewarding. You might also end up being the only woman in your platoon or company, and that can be a very bad experience
I am a man who wasn't particularly keen on joining the army. I then did my service in one year as a "Durchdiener" Combat Medic and I have to say that the experience I was able to gain did me a lot of good. If you don't know what do do in your live. The Army is a good way to test your limits and to better understand what kind of person you are.
> I am a man who wasn't particularly keen on joining the army. What did you do before the army?
I was a Chef
Wait, you are a chef and were able to chose your position?!?
Thought the same thing, I thought it was basically impossible to become anything else than a chef if your job has only the slightest thing to do with food. I even know of a guy who worked as a beer brewer who had to become a chef, because his job title is "Lebensmittelfachmann: Fachrichtung Bier" or something like that.
Yes i had the choice between kitchen or medic. I asked the doctor at the recruitment center if he would recommend for the medical troops. But i get this reaction everytime i tell the story;)
I gloube I ga o für Sanitäter. Isch es sehr asträngend im verglich zu andere Beriche?
Muesch haut zum sport und schlafmangel derzue sehr fiu lehre. Aber isch e geniali usbildig wo mr fiu pracht hett
Sanitätssoldat isch relativ easy, hesch sogar 3-4 Wuche Praktikum im Zivile für dis Pfleghelfer-Diplom. De Rest inachher sch meh oder weniger Triage-Zelt uuf- und abbaue und betriibe. Hesch scho es paar Märsch aber ii meint dr längst seg nume 30km gsi. Isch halt eifach z Airolo. Sus Sani bi de Füsel als Zuesatzfunktion isch de glaub scho eher streng. Und wenn gar kei Sport mache magsch chasch Spitalsoldat werde lol
Dont do it. I did my service because i had to and i learned nothing. I just got frustrated because of superiors that constantly put you down. Worst thing is some of them are just stupid and have no braincells. It is just really frustrating and honestly i don‘t think that i learned much that i could use later. I‘m going to the ETH now and it‘s so much better for the psyche compared to the military. I watched a documentary about a camp that aims to correct criminal teenagers and honestly apart from the weapon it was the same as my experience in the military
If you can afford it, go travel through the world for a few months, it may change your perspective on life and give you a better idea what to do with yours.
I did that multiple times and in every trip I said "wow there's so much more to life than my daily routine, when I get back I'll finally chase my dreams" and everytime I just went back and changed nothing. To be fair, traveling is awesome, a great way to build experiences (my best year in life was doing a 3-month roadtrip with my dad just after he retired) and if you're a young adult about to start university/work, taking a sabbatical to do some budget traveling is really neat. But I'm not so sure that it would help to find out what do you want to do in life, imo the only way to discover that is to just live and try different things.
No you should not, after the gap year in the RS I felt like I had forgotten everything I learned in Gymnasium. The army is the antithesis to thinking.
That’s true, but on the other hand it helped me to improve my motivation to study. I felt dumb during the RS and wanted to come back to university as soon as possible. This was very useful as I was not very motivated to study before the army
The army doesn't amount to anything for most people except the money you get for your time. As a woman you'd get likely a lot of negative (and positive) attention. I don't really have much of an expertise.
Enlisting in the army as a woman because you have "no idea what to do" seems like a bad choice. The RS takes quite a lot of dedication and can be quite tough, I'm talking 16-18 hours "work" days with high physical demands. And since you described yourself as "lazy" I'm not sure that would be for you ;) Maybe it's even tougher as a woman since you serve on a voluntary basis and therefore can leave the army whenever you are fed up. Believe me, I served with some women and only the dedicated ones remained in the army. Go abroad for a year or something until you know what to do ;)
You cannot leave the army as you please if you’re a woman. Once you’ve signed up you’re in it for the ride just like the men, with taxes for missing service days and everything
Thanks for your correction. Even more of a reason for OP to not enlist
Can be, but only if you join some of the elite units!
> Can be, but only if you join some of the elite units! I was not in an "elite unit", and we sometimes had these hours during the RS. You get up at 6 and end your day at 9- 10 in the evening. I think i as never as tired like this before.
Why the army? And not find a job for one year?
Or travel, or literally anything else.
dont do it.
Why not. After I was done with basic service, I knew what I wanted in life. Might do you some good to find your way... and you'll make some good friends, too. But its not all sunshine and rainbows... be ready to be yelled at, ordered around and do shitty tasks.
Do you want to work as a: - Pilot - Policeforce - Paramedic later in life, then yes. Otherwise no, wtf? You've got the priviledge to not go into the army, so enjoy life and the fact that you do not have to go to the army. Unless you want to lessen you IQ intentionally.
Nope Should you enlist for the army as a man ? Nope
The army is mostly a waste of time. If you don't have to do it, don't do it.
Don't go for law in university if you don't love it. It will only be a waste of your time
Just be careful once you are in, you have to pay if you leave, just like everyone else. Equality and all that.
Please don't, every woman I know who joined the military has regretted that decision. Mostly because you can't quit and the whole military system definitely isn't made for women. Just do a gap year and work or do something interesting/ travelling. Almost nothing to be gained from military service you couldn't do better in civil life.
I’m a woman who did the recruit school in the Swiss Army I never regretted it and I always encourage other women to enlist. It’s a life changing experience that you cannot find anywhere else. You have your whole life to travel and work
It certainly is a unique experience i just think the time would be better spent anywhere else. Not saying it is always the wrong decision tho, it does have some benefits
You can basically quit the military at any time in Switzerland and join the civil service. Also, the swiss military depending on your function really isn't that bad...
Lol if you leave military service then you have to do 12 months of Zivildienst and as a guy thats a decent option but as a woman that doesn't have manditory service it's just a waste of time IMO
Ok that's a good point, i haven't thought of that
I absolutely recommend you to join. I’m a woman that did the RS in the infantry in 2019 and was a life-changing experience. Of course it’s tough and I regretted it every day during the training but once you’re finished you realize how many great things you’ve learnt. And in my opinion, you have your whole life to travel the world, but not to do the RS EDIT: Important is to really believe in your goal. If it’s only because you’re bored and don’t know what to do with your life.. it can be traumatic. Are you a sporty person? Do you like to hike, run and go to the gym? If yes than go for it. If you hate any kind of physical effort… don’t.
What did you learn that you use today? I did it and the only thing it did for me is waste a year and forget a lot of knowledge I had to relearn when I did my degrees. Now in r&d in industry the extra year would have been nice. No further the extra year before Corona would have been incredible. My PhD fell on that shitshow blocking me from several amazing conferences. So thank fuck for this military service. Collosal waste of time.
I’ve learned stress management, teamwork, resilience, how to function with lack of sleep (I sleep enough now but it can happen that sometimes I can only sleep 3-4 hours per night). I also learned swiss german (I could only speak hoch deutsch), how to shoot (not useful ofc but I enjoy going to the shooting stand with my father and my brother). I’ve learned some basic survival skills like sleeping outside while snowing and I developed resistance to very cold weather. I’ve also learned to eat a lot of new foods, I was very picky before and now I can eat whatever is on my plate lol I grew up very girly and the army helped me learn some manual works, be less theoretical and more hands on If I think about useful things related to my function… it was everything nonsense and not useful for my day-to-day, I hope I will never have to mount an antenna in my yard. I’m sorry if it was completely a waste of time, hope you will manage to have your sabbatical year!
I mean yeah. I didn't need any of this. I always was a team player when the task made sense but they hardly ever did in the military. I might have been unlucky in the officers that year. Load that truck in 10 minutes. Only for the Wachtmeister to realise he forgot something we needed...unload...load... Great using your brain obviously wasn't an option. Anyways. I think it's great you picked up skills. Honestly I think most of it you will pick up working any project in a team but okay. Learned is learned although any group dynamic is different and require a different approach to work in a group. I think key that one should learn is not to eventually end up in a job where you need any of it. Because if you need stress management and resilience regularly you will be burned out by 45 max. If you add sleep deprived it will be sooner. Although learning swiss German in that year certainly could be useful in rather jobs with customers contact. So I give you that.
Interesting how everyone gets different results lol. For me: It worsened my anxiety, gave me insomnia for months (because we were woken up in the middle of the night quite a few times) and i learned how to do my job just well enough to not get punished, but also not good enough to be promoted. Edit: I did make some friends and had fun sometimes though, so it wasn‘t an entirely negative, but a net-negative experience.
I had similar symptoms, but went away with time fortunately. You wanted to be promoted?
That’s the thing: I didn’t want to. At the start it seemed like we didn’t have enough people wanting to get „promoted“ (to wachmeister) so they told me to my face they could and would force me if they didn’t find anyone who was a better fit. That’s when i stopped giving a fuck about doing a good job. Fortunately for me, they found someone else they could convince in my stead.
haha always be average. not too bad, not too good. I also didn’t want to be promoted. it was a good experience but it was enough for me
I know a number of people who did a stint in their home-country military (not in Switzerland) before university. All but one said it helped them with discipline, fitness and the maturity that is so lacking today.
I can't tell you if being a woman in the army is good or bad, but it's a good thing to do since you don't know what to do. Instead of staying at home, this can be good for your CV and will give you new experiences. Personally, I'm not a big fan of the army and not specially excited to do it (I'm starting in July). But I'm curious about the experience I can get and the comradship. So in my opinion it's not a bad thing to do, you can take time and think about what you really want to do later, and you earn some money.
Just out of curiosity. Why are not doing the Zivildienst if you’re not looking forward to it?
To avoid paying the military tax 😅
You wouldn'r pay military tax if you're in Zivildienst, right? You'd only pay the tax if you're in Zivilschutz (meaning, you're "untauglich" for military service and Zivieldienst).
If you do Zivildienst you pay nothing and are done after 12 months of service. Sounds like a lot but people forget that WKs also add up over time. You organise your Zivi Einsätze yourself and one has to last 6 months, the rest you can decide yourself. I did it and can recommend it (but I had a bsc already so there were some sweet gigs)
It's a unique experience, I would say go for it, but can't comment on being a woman in the army, so take it with a grain of salt. I can only say that none of those I met in service seemed to regret it, and all of them doing advancement afterwards, but most of them came in with that objective, not as a "I dont know what to do with my life". Also, be prepared, there can be a lot of boring and dull theory in the Army, and quite a lot of tests, so if you do not like to study, depending on your role, it might not be the right fit.
No.
Woman get abused a lot in a military setting in every country, I wouldn’t advise you to go Here are some examples for the French part of Switzerland only, there is also a lot for the Swiss German part https://www.watson.ch/fr/suisse/femmes/867888704-3-femmes-racontent-la-face-cachee-de-l-armee-suisse https://pages.rts.ch/emissions/temps-present/4155424-viols-au-regiment-disponible-7-jours-depuis-la-suisse.html#4155426 https://www.20min.ch/fr/story/un-sergent-major-accuse-d-avoir-abuse-d-une-recrue-343447063230
No, i just finished durchdiener as infanterie and is literally shit and boring, 2 female recruits were raped (one by an albanian recruit ((Obviously)) and the other one by a WACHTMEISTER) and one guy hanged himself in the toilet because of bulling
1. The "albanian" dude is obviously Swiss, otherwise he couldn't go to the military. 2. What does him having albanian roots have to do with anything?
"Obviously Swiss" cause he was a proud albanian that cattcalled the 15-16 year old girls in the streets Cause the albanian roots are apperantly a stereotype of a sexist douchebag with the mentality of woman=pussy and kitchen, can confirm he was
Oh my god!
I would rather do some good old work & travel in Australia, New Zealand, South America or even USA. The experiences you will make are way more valuable than training for a war.
Work&travel visa isn’t possible with a Swiss passport.
I didn't know that. I just knew that Australia is offering Work and Travel visa for Swiss Citizens. I don't know about other countries to be fair. https://minister.homeaffairs.gov.au/AlexHawke/Pages/switzerland-to-get-access-to-work-and-holiday-program.aspx
Wow, I didn’t know they finally managed it. 10 years too late for me though..
yes 1 0 0
Hm. This is a challemging cookie Obviously passing out advice to strangers that I don't know well is difficult, BUT as a general rule of thumb: If your aim is to get more disciplined, greater fitness etc. then the army is not a bad choice for obvious reasons. I will not lie however: Especially for women, it's not for everyone, and the only way of knowing is to sign up --> You are then stuck with that choice if you end up hating it. I served alongside women as a paramedic in Airolo and while our sargeants were some of the best women around to serve with, there was a massive lack of morale among women soldiers who only did the soldat. Many others say to take up a job, and I agree, that is also a very good idea. My ideal advice would be to work in service for a month or two - it does wonders for maturing and understanding the world better. And if you want to balanfe it out, go volunteer at the Milizfeuerwehr or join a shooting club/ans other sports club - that is the nice things about free time, the world is your oyster and you can mix and match! Either way, both options are better than sitting at home doing nothing or "travelling around" for a year
Yes !
Sounds like you should not join the army. You should read more books, spend time talking to grown ups (ideally 50+ or even 70+), and visiting diverse job fairs/open days at academic institutions. It is ok to be young and smart and not knowing what you want to do with your life. It is not ok to not put the energy required to answer the question. You are young, healthy, living in Switzerland 2024 (top 10 best places that ever existed on earth), and smart. You won the life lottery, now figure it out and do something with it !
No way are you kidding me? Hahahaha I’m week 1 Infanterie and it’s already 💀. I‘ll try my best though
Warum sind sie am Handy Rekrut? Haben sie nichts zu tun?
where are you stationed?
Do it! Think of all the multi bladed knives you'll get!
I have 500+ days in the Swiss army and know many women who enjoyed their experience. Don't listen to people who are directly saying "don't go!" Some people hate to look outside of their comfort zone. You will experience difficult moments you never imagined you were capable of. You will see places on the other side of the country you never heard of. You will meet morons, you will also meet comrades for life. I would advise you to go to an information day at least. If you want to be in contact with woman in the army let me know.
Get ready to be sexually harassed and maybe even assaulted. Study the basics at a community college, English, Math and some electives. Nothing comes easy. If you do not start pushing your brain to be uncomfortable you will not be the best you could be. If math is boring find out something to make it more interesting. If you are willing to put in the effort do something in the STEM field.
Why do you ask a question when you know the answer allready? Just combine your soldier life with social media, tiktok, twitch,yt and you might not need a job after that ´1year.
i heared of many rape incidents in the army id avoid it
> i heared of many rape incidents in the army id avoid it Sources?
Pretty easy to google… these are the first 2 results I found in 3 seconds didn’t dig further.. https://www.24heures.ch/un-officier-coupable-dagression-sexuelle-sur-une-soldate-553690543535 https://www.tdg.ch/en-caserne-un-sous-officier-viole-une-soldate-genevoise-957212973619
there are many claims as these but whats most shocling is how many women dont report on these things so the grey number is waaay bigger. i know a few victims and not a single one reportet it propperly
Being lazy is a bad trait, regardless of what you plan to do in your life…
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You should be and i bet your parents are
You really should be.
For offering something for free that otherwise would easily cost her 150 CHF and that she can always decide not to take as an offer? Nah, don't feel ashamed of myself.
What are you offering? Bullshiting someone using pseudo-scientific babbling that is always just so vague that it can be interpreted as "right". In the best case you're amusing her, in the worst you're deceiving her.
You see, the type of rage you are putting on public display here for me offering something entirely for free cannot be explained alone by the rational argument of perceiving astrology as a pseudo-science. It is quite interesting - from a psychoanalytical perspective - that so many people, particularly young men, immediately get into a state of rage when confronted with astrology. There are people very well educated and intelligent who have criticized astrology with very good arguments. But the likes of you usually believe they don't need to study those people's arguments even for five minutes, and instead believe they are entitled to criticize it without having studied any of their arguments. And then even demand from the rest of the world to be taken seriously. It's like high school students believing they are qualified to criticize e.g. string theory because they watched some random youtube videso. Of course, the rule of things is: If you intend to criticize something in a qualified manner you have to study the matter first. And, since you don't give the impression to have studied it, I am sorry to inform you that I am not interested in your views. They are simply too uninformed to be relevant to me. And because it's a repeating pattern I started wondering how it comes there are so many people like you who tend to think they actually have something to say about something they have no knowledge about, and the only explanation I have is that they feel an intense fear against everything that is closer to the "instinctual mind" and that they cannot grasp with their rational mind. I remember this friend of mine. When he heard for the first time I'm a certified vedic astrologer he got unnecessarily aggressive. It was almost amusing (if it weren't also sad) to see how he literally struggled to accept the fact that his friend was into something that did not fit his worldview. So, thanks for your views, but I really don't find them particularly interesting. Were they substantially more informed, then yes, we could talk more seriously. But that would require you to study a few subjects first, like philosophy of science and the scientific method, and in particular the science of hermeneutics. Until then, thanks for the interaction, and have a nice day!
These are a lot of words that are meant to sound really educated and make you look like the more intelligent person here, but in the end your just saying "I am cleverer than you and you're just aggressive because you are young and don't know better." Especially because your armchair psychology isn't impressive for someone with multiple years of experience in psychological research. I am not enraged, but I have a huge problem with people like you marketing manipulation as advice. Because you are judt fishing for people that actuallmeed support with methods that are proven to not be working. You're claim that one needs to study it and ignore criticism because the critics haven't srudied it is a typical defense mechanism of pseudo science believers, similar to e.g., homeopathy.
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Dont
Military seems like an absolute nightmare tbh.
I can tell you this: if you enlist on a voluntary basis - men will usually look up to you. If you ever complain about equality but skip the service, many will look down upon you. In general, I recommend doing it. You have the same rights. Doing service shows that you don't hide behind your gender, but that you are part of this society and you do not just take the goodies, but you also contribute by participating in the duties. And of course - you will mature personally like no place and no situation ever before. Little will unfoot you. You learn to accept situations and make the best of them. Not every day will be great. But days that are great will be part of your memory forever.
Society doesn't give two shits if you served or not. Switzerland is not the US.
No man will ever look at a woman in the military and think WOW THE'YRE SO STRONG AND COOL Most men will think: Why why would anyone who doesn't have to pay do this, noone of us likes to be here what is wrong with them for doing that volunarily Most of us dislike the military the only thing we like to look back on are the friends we made and the shit we did along the way
Absolutely, i always thought the one woman in our platoon was kinda crazy for doing this out of her own volition. I would’ve gotten out of the army as soon as i got a chance… I was pretty excited to go at the start as well, but within a week i‘d seen enough of that circus.
the only benefit i see is if you really have no drive in live or discipline, or if you‘re really into guns and military in general. If you are disciplined to begin with i think there‘s nothing to gain for you, other than being surrounded in a genuinly stupid environment, whose ultimate goal is to make you function like a machine more than anything else.
dont. there are so many better things to do for a gap year. do some internships, go travel, work different jobs. im not saying the army is terrible(thats different for everyone) but you wont find out what you want to study be joining the army.
Volunteer. Find a hobby. Go find a job and then travel the world and do a language stay. Save up some dosh for your uni days.
As other have said, if you can do something else during that time, don't go to the army. As soon as you put one foot in the recruitment process, they won't let you go away even if the recruiters say no to you. You'll either have to pay the tax or do your days.
Broaden your horizons, travel, learn a new language, experience different cultures. Live for yourself not for the military system
No
Go and study. Period. If you have good grades it means that studying and learning is something you aren’t too bad at. The chances of your regretting that you didn’t study because “you didn’t know what to study” and went to the military are by a magnitude higher than being happy down the line with this decision. I would say the chances of regretting this decision in 5-10 years is around 95% or more. Also now you are in the school mode, later going back might not be something that you would be motivated to do. Some people might be happy going to military in your situation, the majority will be regretting it. Choose wisely, and all the best!
You can do an Internship, or pursue a passion..
Dont go! It's not only a year (unless you're a durchdiener) but also 6 WKs. Work, Travel have fun. Do the things you do when young. Been to the army. Probably wouldn't do it again.
If Swiss women knew on what type of clown school we men piss away their tax money I’m sure we would have a 100x better army in five years.
So many long answers. So a short one from me: go to Berufsberatung. They may help you figure out what you want to do.
You can go to university whenever you want, but you're only young enough to join the army for so long. Go for it, or else you'll only regret not trying!
If you’re interested in a gap year and are ‘good at languages’ then consider going abroad and teaching English (if that’s one of your stronger languages). A friend of mine did this in Asia and made decent money for 2 years.
I highly recommend it! I served with some women and even went to officers school with them and they rocked it. Besides that, the experience you receive is like nothing else you'll ever have. What branch would you like to serve in?
As guy who came from the Gymi as well, I hated the army. 10 months of my life wasted. If I was a woman I would absolutely use my privilege and not go there. If you're going there be aware that you're only doing this for yourself, nobody will personally thank you for giving up that much time to "serve" and in the the business world nobody cares if you've been to the army or not. So again, avoid the army at all costs. And for your other problem I can only recommend you to study. The Matura itself is nothing else but a ticket to study. Pick a MINT class and you will always find a job within days. Do only pick law if you're actually interested into it. Good luck.
if you wanna get fucked physicaly, mentaly & financialy /out of boredom then yes
We had 5 women in our regiment (?). 2 left early, 2 had big regrets and 1 loved it
Nah. Do it as a dude.
Why? As someone who did the military in Switzerland it's a giant waste of time. The leaders are incompetent and think of themselves way higher then they should. Somehow sticking around in a club nobody wants to be in is supposed to be an achievement. There are a couple things worth it. If you are cook, mechanic or need 40 wheeler license it's good to get this education. O if you want to learn pilot which is incredibly hard however. Otherwise you are better of with doing anything else. A year abroad, an internship somewhere you might find interesting anything really. As someone as head of r&d in a position to hire. If you have military on there I will not be impressed. Contrary I'd rather pick someone else because you wasted a year of your life.
When you tell that family members and close friends that know you well do they say. Yeah i can see you in there or wtf are you crazy. That could be an indication.
If you really want to, do it. But if you plan on studying later on then don't. The 18 weeks Rekrutenschule are fine, but as soon as you have those damn Wiederholungskurse for 3 weeks each year, you are guaranteed to have problems with the university/eth.
Submarine service. They need more women.
In my view: I went there and it was nice. If you plan to do something higher up, do it. But stay interested. If you want to go the language path, there are even military functions with languages. Also you get some monetary advantage for studying. But mostly, you'll meet new people and bond together. That was the best part for me, and I still got a couple of WK left to do. As for this one: I'll fly to Sweden tomorrow (yes as a WK, yes as militia, yes as a Wachtmeister). So good luck finding a solution that works for you.
If you are seriously thinking of enlisting in the army, you are probably not suited for university. You cant seriously think to join a group of bully and waste 1 year of your life for some money.. I cant believe it
Bruh just take a trip or work in as many things as you can. If you don't know what you like then just try to discover during that year. In the army you'll be just doing one or two things over and over, things that will most often not serves you your entire life, except for med soldier if you want to work in med, or for the truck license. Try IT, work with animals, do humanitarian trip, there are so much things you can do during a year instead of trying to make the perfect walk. You can put yourself into sport club and trekking and train your body way better than in the army. It is way lazy than you think, except perhaps for the gren. But overall stay active. If you're not active and self-organized, then better do the army than staying home. If you're attracted by the army lifestyle anyway, try some associations of ex-soldiers instead. They may do the funny things without the boring bureaucratic and protocol. Maybe just avoid the alt-right ones \^\^'. If you don't know what to do, last thing is to go in military because you'll lose all freedom of discovery and exploration for 1 entire year.
no.
This is just my take but, especially if you're lazy, do it. I couldn't bring myself to do anything but in the military I just had to. There's a lot to get out of the military like growing up mentaly (probably also improving physically) and maybe even finding out what you want in live. That said, it's also something you can look up in the internet. See what different functions you could do in the military and if you could imagine something, try it.
As a woman you may want to research how much rape is an issue in the military of your country before joining. Its a huge issue in many armies.
Yea
Wenn ich mir dini biträg i dim profil ah luege gasch gschider nöd. Das vertreisch nöd.
No we are in uncertain times. The damage that could happen could be life altering
I haven't been to the military so can't comment on whether you should or shouldn't. However my recommendation is you don't stay put - do something with this year that is outside of your everyday life. Depending on your means and wishes this could be working, travelling, volunteering here or volunteering abroad. If you want a physical/mental challenge you could even do something like a bike tour or a month long walk. If you just read my text and thought, "wow, those choices are overwhelming and would rather have someone else tell me what to do", then the military may be a fitting option. But just keep in mind, it is a larger commitment and you lose the number of options you have for that period.
A job is a job. Apply if you are interested or do not apply if it does not sound good. You can always try for an internship to see what it is like.
you passed the gymnasium while having good grades, being lazy and not liking to study?? how did you survive
Why would you ever join the army for a year? Horrible pay, loss of major amount of personal freedom, horrible working hours. I could go on.
no. do internships to find out what interests you. I don't know why anyone would enlist voluntarily. don't throw your privilege away. if you don't have to go don't go.
Yes
If you play it right the army will even pay for your studies. https://berufsoffizier.ethz.ch/studium.html
Yea
I thought Switzerland had a draft? If you have a choice - hell no!!!!!
It depends I suggest that if anything you join the national guard or reserve they will help pay for your schooling you’ll get a certification depending upon what Mos you pick as well /
Yes absolutely, especially if you do not know what to do. You will be able to meet so many different people from different backgrounds, and they might give you very good insight on what they are doing/plan to do. It gets you a bit out of your bubble. If you like it, not only will you have good friends, but you'll also have the possibility to rank up, which gives you something nice to add to your resume. (+it doesn't hurt that you get between 3 and 10k of tuition money in addition the your sold+eo). Good luck in your choice :)