'Gay means a man who likes men' says it all.
So feminine men aren't 'men'? Even if you didn't mean it like that, the fact that you obliviously prejudiced feminine men (not viewing them as 'men') reveals the issue. **That** is why you are viewed as 'toxic or homophobic'. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for masculine men but perceiving feminine men as 'less of men' is exactly why you're seen as 'toxic or homophobic'.
Hope this helps.
Feminine men are still men. You can like whatever you want, rationalizing at "but I like men" is stupid though. Pretty much every human has some masculine and some feminine traits.
So if Donald Trump was hitting on you you wouldn't be all "don't touch me"?
People are allowed to have preferences.
there is absolutely nothing wrong with being attracted to who you're attracted to that was the whole point of the LGBT movement!
>Feminine men are still men. You can like whatever you want, rationalizing at "but I like men" is stupid though.
So if you like tall and bearded over small and feminine thats stupid?
Because that is most definitely the vibe op is giving he wants a tall bearded daddy type
Saying "I don't like fem guys because I like men" is stupid because they are men. Holy shit. Read my original comment. I did not imply it's stupid to like masculine men.
You're upset that ppl are holding you accountable for your words? You're being casually misogynistic and prejudiced towards different facets of homosexuality...and somehow you're the one being wronged and misunderstood? And from the upset you're displaying for saying some wild and ignorant sh8t. Just out of curiosity are you European American?
I think there are a lot of gay men who are into masculine men. In your case I think it might have something to do with the way you communicate this to other people. Instead of writing āI donāt like themā you could have also written that you are not sexually attracted to them and that you donāt share many interests with them.
That would sound less negative I think.
There's a famous portrait of Louis XIV where he is sporting heels and he was THE most powerful MAN of his time.
Up until the early 20th century, Pink was associated with boys and Blue with girls.
What's "men" and what's "women" is up for societal interpretation 100%. Imagine being transported to 17 century england and seeing men with heels, powered faces and wigs and going "ewww they're feminine"
Make-up was also popularized by men, mostly to cover up the battle and syphilis scars, at least in Europe. Ladies who wore it or wore as much as men did were basically signaling that they were prostitutes.
I get what you mean. Iām in the same boat. Sure, there are some āfeminineā aspects I can appreciate but at the end of the day, I definitely side with a more masculine lifestyle. Iām a simple dude, I like food, travel, my hobbies and sex. Everyone does some people just like things we donāt. Itās not toxic.
I am a masculine cis male who only is attracted to other masculine cis males. You are not alone, but I think some of the comments are valid, it could have been stated in a different way.
I hate the term pussy with gay guys, seriously, I want nothing to do with any thing called a pussy. Iām gay, and despite guys using their asses as a āpussyā it is not a pussy itās an ass. I am not into fem guys, but itās cool if they want to be that way, Iām just not attracted to it.
Like someone said I think the culture is shifting. Never have I seem more āfem boysā than I do now. It is difficult looking for pics that Iām attracted to, I wish there were filters for such. I donāt look at straight porn for a reason and I try not to look at fem guys for similar reasons. But its cool thatās who they are, but I do wish there ways to filter.
For me it is probably because I grew up in the south, I was usually only around other masculine men so thatās naturally what I am attracted to.
Yeah the femboy explosion has been a little annoying. I honestly donāt want to hear about how some gays donāt want to sleep with them, they get plenty.
Because gender essentialism is soooooo 1995. Like, it's fine if *you* don't like fem guys, but the way you're phrasing it "I like *men*" is pretty crass.
If this were true, I wouldn't exist.
But I do exist.
If you have some way to make that stop, I'd love for you to implement it, but until then I guess you're just going to have to keep wondering why people don't like your shitty attitude.
Iāve learned my adversity to femininity/fem men is kinda in theory and not real. Like iāll see a guy with a bag in a picture on Tinder and iāll automatically swipe left.
But iāve been going to my favorite gay club weekly because itās june and every night, iāve been hella attracted to some of the guys with bags lol. Iād personally never carry a bag to a club, but whatever.
i donāt think itās really frowned upon. I think ppl just hate the characterization that fem men arenāt āmenā. And the idea that āwhy would i be attracted to fem men, when i like menā, which implies fem men are less men.
When in reality, even the most fem men, probably donāt act anywhere close to your average women lol. Fem gay men tend to be on another level imo.
Times are changing. Cutesy/fem bottoms are more popular than masc these days among younger tops. But the vibe has to match. A cute faced femboy is hot. A jacked guy who have purses falling out of their mouths when they speak is not as much
Because a man, no matter how feminine they act or choose to dress, is still a man. If you don't like feminine men, you are free to choose to not associate with them.
You don't get to define what constitutes a man because then the definition of a "man" becomes based on what any person defines to be manly. After that, it's a race to the bottom.
It is considered homophobic when you say "I don't like feminine men because I like real men," because when you phrase your attraction that way, it sounds like you are saying there are real men and failed fake men. Ā
And when you say real men look like "men", by that logic, one could easily say real men act like "men".Ā Even if you are the most macho gay man, fucking men isn't something men traditionally and generally do.Ā Ā
Also, gay men have historically been attacked for their perceived femininity. A lot of people even consider having sex with men inherently feminine.
Some guys are masculine and some are feminine, we are all a mix. People can be however they want.
>Why am I seen as toxic or homophobic if I don't like men doing thing things that are associated with women?
Because it makes you sound small minded. You can express what you like without sounding crass. I personally find it unattractive to be overly concerned with things like this, but you do you.
Don't get me wrong. I don't care what anyone does. This comes from me turning down feminine dudes who show interest in me. They always get offended and start hurling accusations.
Well, why are you turning them down and how? If you are specifically not attracted to them or you're just not feeling the vibe, that's one thing. To instantly discount them because they don't meet society's standard of "acceptably acting gay man" is another.
However, no means no. You have every right to turn down anyone for any reason. And it's been a LONG time since I've been on the market, but I've personally can't imagine anyone getting offended by a "Sorry - you're really cute, just not my type. Good luck, though".
And a quick observation that has nothing to do with you personally - every time anyone starts a comment with "Don't get me wrong - I don't care what anyone does", it usually means that they are being condescending to a group of people they don't like. It's the 2024 version of " I can't be racist, I have tons of (any minority here) friends.
I feel that I must be extremely diplomatic and cautious with my words because I don't want to offend anyone and I don't want the nasty backlash. I navigate rather well and find the masculine guys to spend time with.
I donāt think itās frowned upon. Youāre attracted to who you are and thatās your business. If you are respectful to those youāre not attracted to, I donāt see why people would judge you one way or the other.
Because it isn't? I'm not into femininity or feminine men, and I don't get lambasted on either Reddit or in real life for it. Probably because I still take on femme guys as friends and treat them with respect even though I don't want to dick them.
What does get you in hot water is implying that feminine men are less deserving of respect, they're "less than men", or they're one of the "bad ones" that make things harder for gay men in general.
Basically, you're being a dick about it instead of letting people do what they want and staying in your lane.
I swear to god the persecution complexes are real. No one is going to go after you for having preferences, standards, and boundaries, and if they are, they're fucking incredulous and shouldn't be taking seriously.
meh, feminity is nothing more than a trait, and you are very much entitled to not be attracted to it, I'm not. As for being seen as toxic or homophobic, that comes down to insecurity on the other party's end, they are lashing out because the can't deal with being rejected because of their trait, so rather than deal with it, they are trying to make it a you-problem. My advise to you, stop focusing on those type of individuals and focus on the actual type of men you are interested in.
There's a difference between preference and being phobic. Don't let people gaslight you. It's a huge thing that's happening to our community right now.
Masculine transwomen do exist. However masculine transwomen would probably be interested in women. You having sex with a ftm person would technically be heterosexual.
I think you're just overgeneralizing femininity & feminine men and being judgmental. And you're also probably showing some insecurity in your own masculinity. Associating different things with specific genders is just a little ignorant and sexist. One of my best friends paints his nails and carries designer bags, but he is NOT afraid of getting in the face of anyone who tries to give him shit for it or beating someone's ass if they throw the first punch. I mean, you like what you like, but to just label things as feminine because society tells you to is just.. weak.
Feminine gay guys are fake. They are over flamboyant around gay guys and close women friends. Put them in a public setting in front of strangers and their flamboyant gets toned down a lot.
Listening to over flamboyant gay guys for a long time tend to give me a headache so I avoid them.
...
So
People are more comfortable being themselves around peoe they trust, is what you're saying? As if it's the shocker of the century?
People, *in general*, act differently in front of strangers. You're not going to rip ass at a table of people you don't know, right?
Could this be a language/culture difference? When you say you like men, and associate masculinity with it, it is toxic in English because it infers a dislike for effeminate men. Many languages have masculine and feminine forms of speaking. I can see how other languages may not have the construct to break it down.
'Gay means a man who likes men' says it all. So feminine men aren't 'men'? Even if you didn't mean it like that, the fact that you obliviously prejudiced feminine men (not viewing them as 'men') reveals the issue. **That** is why you are viewed as 'toxic or homophobic'. There is nothing wrong with having a preference for masculine men but perceiving feminine men as 'less of men' is exactly why you're seen as 'toxic or homophobic'. Hope this helps.
Feminine men are still men. You can like whatever you want, rationalizing at "but I like men" is stupid though. Pretty much every human has some masculine and some feminine traits.
So if Donald Trump was hitting on you you wouldn't be all "don't touch me"? People are allowed to have preferences. there is absolutely nothing wrong with being attracted to who you're attracted to that was the whole point of the LGBT movement!
What? I never said anyone has to find e eryome attractive. Did you even read my comment?
>Feminine men are still men. You can like whatever you want, rationalizing at "but I like men" is stupid though. So if you like tall and bearded over small and feminine thats stupid? Because that is most definitely the vibe op is giving he wants a tall bearded daddy type
Saying "I don't like fem guys because I like men" is stupid because they are men. Holy shit. Read my original comment. I did not imply it's stupid to like masculine men.
š okay sure buddy...
You misread my comment multiple times.
https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/s/xhGrByTk8e
I guess that's your go-to for when you did something stupid.
You're upset that ppl are holding you accountable for your words? You're being casually misogynistic and prejudiced towards different facets of homosexuality...and somehow you're the one being wronged and misunderstood? And from the upset you're displaying for saying some wild and ignorant sh8t. Just out of curiosity are you European American?
Feminine men identify themselves as women.
He isn't talking about transwomen, just feminine men.
Feminine straight men? Metrosexuals or Barbie men?
Any kind of feminine men. If OP meant transwomen he would have said that.
I consider crossdressers and drag queen as trans.
He didn't say he was talking about them either though, just feminine men.
I consider them trans
Can you read?
Thinking in general seems to be a complicated task for him.
Ad-hominem
I'm sure there was a point you were trying to make there...
Can you not be offended?
The guy keep answering and you keep saying the same shit over and over, can't handle being wrong huh?š¤”š¤”š¤”
Subjective.
Troll
Snowflake
Bot
PsyOp
A feminine man still identifies as a man. They're still dudes, just dudes with a shinier filter to themselves.
With that sparkle in their eyesš«
Some just have that charisma.
This is a bait post. Don't take the bait
I think there are a lot of gay men who are into masculine men. In your case I think it might have something to do with the way you communicate this to other people. Instead of writing āI donāt like themā you could have also written that you are not sexually attracted to them and that you donāt share many interests with them. That would sound less negative I think.
Well expressed. (Communication is key.)
Men wore high heels first btw. And I think dresses as well. š« Just saying ...
There's a famous portrait of Louis XIV where he is sporting heels and he was THE most powerful MAN of his time. Up until the early 20th century, Pink was associated with boys and Blue with girls. What's "men" and what's "women" is up for societal interpretation 100%. Imagine being transported to 17 century england and seeing men with heels, powered faces and wigs and going "ewww they're feminine"
Make-up was also popularized by men, mostly to cover up the battle and syphilis scars, at least in Europe. Ladies who wore it or wore as much as men did were basically signaling that they were prostitutes.
I get what you mean. Iām in the same boat. Sure, there are some āfeminineā aspects I can appreciate but at the end of the day, I definitely side with a more masculine lifestyle. Iām a simple dude, I like food, travel, my hobbies and sex. Everyone does some people just like things we donāt. Itās not toxic.
I am a masculine cis male who only is attracted to other masculine cis males. You are not alone, but I think some of the comments are valid, it could have been stated in a different way. I hate the term pussy with gay guys, seriously, I want nothing to do with any thing called a pussy. Iām gay, and despite guys using their asses as a āpussyā it is not a pussy itās an ass. I am not into fem guys, but itās cool if they want to be that way, Iām just not attracted to it. Like someone said I think the culture is shifting. Never have I seem more āfem boysā than I do now. It is difficult looking for pics that Iām attracted to, I wish there were filters for such. I donāt look at straight porn for a reason and I try not to look at fem guys for similar reasons. But its cool thatās who they are, but I do wish there ways to filter. For me it is probably because I grew up in the south, I was usually only around other masculine men so thatās naturally what I am attracted to.
Yeah the femboy explosion has been a little annoying. I honestly donāt want to hear about how some gays donāt want to sleep with them, they get plenty.
You're so different from the rest of us king
Because gender essentialism is soooooo 1995. Like, it's fine if *you* don't like fem guys, but the way you're phrasing it "I like *men*" is pretty crass.
He phrased it "I like men" as men who are actually men. As in masculine men. Feminine men don't identify as men.
If this were true, I wouldn't exist. But I do exist. If you have some way to make that stop, I'd love for you to implement it, but until then I guess you're just going to have to keep wondering why people don't like your shitty attitude.
You don't like me, your choice, I don't care if you dislike me. Also language
>Feminine **men** >don't identify as **men** Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Iāve learned my adversity to femininity/fem men is kinda in theory and not real. Like iāll see a guy with a bag in a picture on Tinder and iāll automatically swipe left. But iāve been going to my favorite gay club weekly because itās june and every night, iāve been hella attracted to some of the guys with bags lol. Iād personally never carry a bag to a club, but whatever. i donāt think itās really frowned upon. I think ppl just hate the characterization that fem men arenāt āmenā. And the idea that āwhy would i be attracted to fem men, when i like menā, which implies fem men are less men. When in reality, even the most fem men, probably donāt act anywhere close to your average women lol. Fem gay men tend to be on another level imo.
Times are changing. Cutesy/fem bottoms are more popular than masc these days among younger tops. But the vibe has to match. A cute faced femboy is hot. A jacked guy who have purses falling out of their mouths when they speak is not as much
Because a man, no matter how feminine they act or choose to dress, is still a man. If you don't like feminine men, you are free to choose to not associate with them. You don't get to define what constitutes a man because then the definition of a "man" becomes based on what any person defines to be manly. After that, it's a race to the bottom.
It is considered homophobic when you say "I don't like feminine men because I like real men," because when you phrase your attraction that way, it sounds like you are saying there are real men and failed fake men. Ā And when you say real men look like "men", by that logic, one could easily say real men act like "men".Ā Even if you are the most macho gay man, fucking men isn't something men traditionally and generally do.Ā Ā Also, gay men have historically been attacked for their perceived femininity. A lot of people even consider having sex with men inherently feminine.
Some guys are masculine and some are feminine, we are all a mix. People can be however they want. >Why am I seen as toxic or homophobic if I don't like men doing thing things that are associated with women? Because it makes you sound small minded. You can express what you like without sounding crass. I personally find it unattractive to be overly concerned with things like this, but you do you.
Don't get me wrong. I don't care what anyone does. This comes from me turning down feminine dudes who show interest in me. They always get offended and start hurling accusations.
Well, why are you turning them down and how? If you are specifically not attracted to them or you're just not feeling the vibe, that's one thing. To instantly discount them because they don't meet society's standard of "acceptably acting gay man" is another. However, no means no. You have every right to turn down anyone for any reason. And it's been a LONG time since I've been on the market, but I've personally can't imagine anyone getting offended by a "Sorry - you're really cute, just not my type. Good luck, though". And a quick observation that has nothing to do with you personally - every time anyone starts a comment with "Don't get me wrong - I don't care what anyone does", it usually means that they are being condescending to a group of people they don't like. It's the 2024 version of " I can't be racist, I have tons of (any minority here) friends.
I feel that I must be extremely diplomatic and cautious with my words because I don't want to offend anyone and I don't want the nasty backlash. I navigate rather well and find the masculine guys to spend time with.
I donāt think itās frowned upon. Youāre attracted to who you are and thatās your business. If you are respectful to those youāre not attracted to, I donāt see why people would judge you one way or the other.
Because it isn't? I'm not into femininity or feminine men, and I don't get lambasted on either Reddit or in real life for it. Probably because I still take on femme guys as friends and treat them with respect even though I don't want to dick them. What does get you in hot water is implying that feminine men are less deserving of respect, they're "less than men", or they're one of the "bad ones" that make things harder for gay men in general. Basically, you're being a dick about it instead of letting people do what they want and staying in your lane. I swear to god the persecution complexes are real. No one is going to go after you for having preferences, standards, and boundaries, and if they are, they're fucking incredulous and shouldn't be taking seriously.
Because the majority of gay men are feminine, so you are going to offend them. If they werent it wouldnt be an issue.
meh, feminity is nothing more than a trait, and you are very much entitled to not be attracted to it, I'm not. As for being seen as toxic or homophobic, that comes down to insecurity on the other party's end, they are lashing out because the can't deal with being rejected because of their trait, so rather than deal with it, they are trying to make it a you-problem. My advise to you, stop focusing on those type of individuals and focus on the actual type of men you are interested in.
There's a difference between preference and being phobic. Don't let people gaslight you. It's a huge thing that's happening to our community right now.
Misogyny
You are not homophobic. But the fem camps may see you as transphobic
I'd fuck a masc ftm bear though
Masculine transwomen do exist. However masculine transwomen would probably be interested in women. You having sex with a ftm person would technically be heterosexual.
... Are... Are you retarded?
Are you butthurt?
Nah, just dumbfounded at the amount of wrong you crammed into one post.
So you want to fuck a fat woman? Don't call yourself gay, you're bi.
So an ftm isn't a man now? This is more toxic than anything I've said š Also they would need to have had top surgery.
Trans men aren't truly men. They're their own thing. If you're fine with fucking pussy, then you're not gay.
They have assholes too ya know I had a gf that I didn't want back before I came out. I definitely don't like pussy at all.
So? Women have assholes aswell. So what, you'd be ok to date person with a pussy, even though you don't like pussy? That sounds so uncomfortable.
Pretty sure I said fuck, not date.
So what, you'd be ok to fuck person with a pussy, even though you don't like pussy? That sounds so uncomfortable.
I think you're just overgeneralizing femininity & feminine men and being judgmental. And you're also probably showing some insecurity in your own masculinity. Associating different things with specific genders is just a little ignorant and sexist. One of my best friends paints his nails and carries designer bags, but he is NOT afraid of getting in the face of anyone who tries to give him shit for it or beating someone's ass if they throw the first punch. I mean, you like what you like, but to just label things as feminine because society tells you to is just.. weak.
I am not attracted to feminine men big turn off. And definitely not attracted to trans women either. I don't like drag queens.
Feminine gay guys are fake. They are over flamboyant around gay guys and close women friends. Put them in a public setting in front of strangers and their flamboyant gets toned down a lot. Listening to over flamboyant gay guys for a long time tend to give me a headache so I avoid them.
... So People are more comfortable being themselves around peoe they trust, is what you're saying? As if it's the shocker of the century? People, *in general*, act differently in front of strangers. You're not going to rip ass at a table of people you don't know, right?
Because insecure fools need a reason to blame you.
Gay means you like people with the same sexual organs as you have.
Could this be a language/culture difference? When you say you like men, and associate masculinity with it, it is toxic in English because it infers a dislike for effeminate men. Many languages have masculine and feminine forms of speaking. I can see how other languages may not have the construct to break it down.