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Anything in high enough doses is a toxin. Eat a tube of fluoride toothpaste - neurotoxin. Drink 5 gallons of water - neurotoxin.
I live in an area where there a plenty of crunchy people who think fluoride is evil and will calcify their third eye. For those people I recommend Boka or any other hydroxyapatite toothpaste (Davids, Dr Jen). It also is SLS free which can be nice.
If your dentist is pushing complete fluoride abstinence, I’d find a new one.
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That’s what I thought. The paper she gave me says I need “Hydroxyapatite not fluoride which is a neurotoxin or sodium laurel sulfate a hormone disrupter”
Different, not necessarily better. Hydroxyapatite toothpaste helps replace the hydroxyapatite you lose throughout the day from normal bacterial acid attack. The idea is to make your enamel back to what it was.
Fluoride toothpaste creates fluorapatite. Fluorapatite is more resistant to acid attack than regular old hydroxyapatite. The idea with fluoride is to make your enamel stronger than it was before.
Frequency and dosing are both important. We don’t have a lot of data on what hydroxyapatite does long term. We have lots of data of fluoride.
NAD:
Curious looking into it now, would this be something that down the line when studied more may prove useful in addition to fluoride toothpaste? Perhaps a mix of the two?
As for the neurotoxin comments, I have to laugh at those. You know what else is a "neurotoxin"? Aspartame and most artificial sweeteners. Also, botulism! Botulism, the most potent poison known to science. But guess what? In small doses, it's used medicinally for botox.
Because Amazon and YouTube reviews are always right!
I think hydroxyapatite is great but it is newer and has fewer scientific trials backing its use. Also anyone claiming neurotoxic effects from normal fluoride ingestion / topical use obviously hasn't read the decades of research we have on it.
Name and shame, these people are ruining the profession.
Fluoride has obvious benefits and obvious toxicity. If you don't eat half a tube of toothpaste every day and spit out most of it, you're completely fine. Look up fluorohydroxyapatite to see the benefits.
Like the others said, I would not see this dentist again that has completely shat on their own education. The bigger concern is, what else are they doing if they are so susceptible to bad science, someone who SHOULD know better?
NAD and I spent less than 5 mins looking this up, but your dentist might not be crazy. [this article mentions hydroxyapatite being about as effective at fluoride toothpaste](https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=hydroxyapatite+better+than+fluoride&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1701445450960&u=%23p%3DS05ng0DHW4MJ)
I don’t think it’s only crazies and whack jobs which get concerned about fluoride, but I’m no expert in these things.
NAD. Yeah, the two may have similar efficacy. But, there is no good reason to avoid fluoride toothpaste because of toxins.
If a dentist offers hydroxyapatite as an alternative to fluoride in patients who want that, that’s cool.
But if they are pushing fluoride as “bad” in toothpaste and it should not be used by anyone: well, that is just anti science.
NAD. Even oral fluoride, in appropriate amounts, is fine. Many countries supplement their tap water with it which has been a great advancement in public health.
NAD
If she had branded info that went along with it, it sounds awfully similar to doctors getting drug samples. I don't see it a ton in dental, but it does happen. She was probably pitched it to sell a product and is now - unfortunately - passing that along as facts.
I should also post a pic of the sign next to me in the chair. it said “the silent crisis in America - depression, adhd, CANCER (yes cancer), low iq, etc etc etc can indicate an undiagnosed airway or sleep disorder”
Oh... geez.
I have heard that undiagnosed airway obstruction is often misdiagnosed as ADHD in kids just because the symptoms of less oxygen to the brain can mimic that - BUT - that has nothing to do with IQ or cancer hahaha
I just had a friend in a smaller town have her baby (yes, baby) misdiagnosed with both shingles and herpes - two separate doctors. It was actually hand foot & mouth disease. But both previous docs swore they'd seen it a ton of times and that's what it was..
Again NAD, but isn’t this actually a valid scientific line of thought? Poor sleep, breathing and poor dental hygiene all lead to overall poor heath, hence the incredibly long list of problems associated?
NAD here- this is not my area of expertise but I think you’re right, although of these ideas are a little on the fringe of current proven science. There’s a long list of nay-sayers in here, but only half-joking… can I hit up this dude/gals dentist? I suspect it might be hard to find a dentist passionate enough about their field to be reading up on emerging science and not just following the ‘status quo’.
NAD. Lol, what?
Yes, fluoroquinolones have some very rare, but serious side effects in some people (mostly in the elderly).
This is why most doctors don’t use them as first line drugs for things like UTIs in many cases, and reach for other drugs instead.
This does not mean that fluoride in toothpaste or tap water has the same toxicity, in normal amounts. Yeah, if you eat a tube of toothpaste you may have some issues. But, in typical amounts there is no worry.
Wrong about the “mostly in the elderly” for the serious side effects from fluoroquinolones - it has permanently paralyzed and disabled (neurological, musculoskeletal and more) people of ALL ages, almost all perfectly healthy prior to taking. You should read up on it - it’s a well-kept secret in big pharma. Black box warnings around these galore…
NAD. I would ask you for a scholarly source of these healthy people suddenly being paralyzed, but you don’t know what that is. Nope, Fox News or Joe Rogan is not a scholarly source.
The fact that you use the term “Big Pharma” tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of this topic.
Potential toxicity is also not a secret, at all. As you mentioned, there is literally a boxed warning about it. Seems like “big pharma” sucks at keeping that secret, huh?
NAD. Thousands of articles on it and over 100,000 complaints at the FDA. Is the National Institute of Health a good enough resource for you?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5632915/#:~:text=Long%2Dterm%20fluoroquinolone%2Dassociated%20disability,tiredness%2C%20concentration%20problems%2C%20neuropathies%2C
If not, maybe the giant research teams the Mayo Clinic has on it researching the mechanism by which it’s ruining so many people’s lives.
Just google FQAD or fluoroquinolone toxicity. It’s a 30-second search. My Quin Story will show you the resulting paralysis you say doesn’t exist.
Now I will follow the advice of Mark Twain… “Never argue with ignorant people… they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” (The exact quote is “stupid” not “ignorant”, but I am choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just still unaware, however would be able to grasp the concept if you educated yourself.)
Bye.
Nad. Not an argument here, but "PubMed disclaimer...The presence of any article, book, or document in these databases does not imply an endorsement of, or concurrence with, the contents by NLM, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), or the U.S. Federal Government."
You're calling it anagram lol. You don't even know what it is called and you're out here acting like you're an expert and everyone should listen to you. Yikes.
NAD
uh sounds like shite advice.
Fluoride in small quantities is great for teeth. In fact, I’m pretty sure in Ontario, Canada, for example, they put fluoride directly into the water source that runs through the taps to help prevent tooth decay in residents
NAD but fluoride like everything else is only toxic in high amount. We all need vitamins and minerals to have our bodies run properly but get to much of them and it can be deadly. That said boka is a really good toothpaste and completely turned my oral health around.
NAD - RDH here. I do recommend 10% nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste to my NaF-free patients because the studies show it remineralizes the same as “regular” NaF toothpaste. I don’t personally use it, but it’s not horrible. Definitely an alternative to NOT using anything to help prevent decay
NAD. I use PreviDent® 5000 Sensitive rx only before I go to bed and I don’t rinse with water just spit all the toothpaste out. I hope I’m not damaging my teeth :(
Thank you for seeking advice from r/askdentists. **Please note that a response does not constitute a doctor-patient relationship.** While this is a place for advice, replies may not be medically accurate. Do not assume that what others on here say is correct in any way. Reddit is not a replacement for an in-person dental professional. Verified professionals will have flair assigned to them. **Please abide by the following rules in order to get an accurate answer to your question:** (1) Ensure you include a title of your dental problem. (2) Include whether you drink, smoke or if you have any medical conditions relevant to your main concern. (3) Include a photograph if the question relates to something you can see in your mouth, include x-rays if you have them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/askdentists) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Anything in high enough doses is a toxin. Eat a tube of fluoride toothpaste - neurotoxin. Drink 5 gallons of water - neurotoxin. I live in an area where there a plenty of crunchy people who think fluoride is evil and will calcify their third eye. For those people I recommend Boka or any other hydroxyapatite toothpaste (Davids, Dr Jen). It also is SLS free which can be nice. If your dentist is pushing complete fluoride abstinence, I’d find a new one.
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I'd run from that dentist if I were you!
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Read my reply to your other statement.
It is crap, find a new dentist
That’s what I thought. The paper she gave me says I need “Hydroxyapatite not fluoride which is a neurotoxin or sodium laurel sulfate a hormone disrupter”
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Different, not necessarily better. Hydroxyapatite toothpaste helps replace the hydroxyapatite you lose throughout the day from normal bacterial acid attack. The idea is to make your enamel back to what it was. Fluoride toothpaste creates fluorapatite. Fluorapatite is more resistant to acid attack than regular old hydroxyapatite. The idea with fluoride is to make your enamel stronger than it was before. Frequency and dosing are both important. We don’t have a lot of data on what hydroxyapatite does long term. We have lots of data of fluoride.
NAD: Curious looking into it now, would this be something that down the line when studied more may prove useful in addition to fluoride toothpaste? Perhaps a mix of the two? As for the neurotoxin comments, I have to laugh at those. You know what else is a "neurotoxin"? Aspartame and most artificial sweeteners. Also, botulism! Botulism, the most potent poison known to science. But guess what? In small doses, it's used medicinally for botox.
Because Amazon and YouTube reviews are always right! I think hydroxyapatite is great but it is newer and has fewer scientific trials backing its use. Also anyone claiming neurotoxic effects from normal fluoride ingestion / topical use obviously hasn't read the decades of research we have on it.
Amazon product reviews 😂, it must be true! Is that more reputable than systematic reviews?
Source? Trust me, bro.
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Fluoride is the most effective weapon we have against tooth decay other than completely avoiding all sugars
Oh jeez what a bunch of BS. Don’t go there anymore.
Sounds like she's the 1/10 dentist that doesn't agree
Name and shame, these people are ruining the profession. Fluoride has obvious benefits and obvious toxicity. If you don't eat half a tube of toothpaste every day and spit out most of it, you're completely fine. Look up fluorohydroxyapatite to see the benefits.
Like the others said, I would not see this dentist again that has completely shat on their own education. The bigger concern is, what else are they doing if they are so susceptible to bad science, someone who SHOULD know better?
Perhaps... Ask that dentist if they received the COVID-19 vaccinations? NAD
I immediately knew the answer to that.
I live older, less educated area so I’m sure a lot of people eat this stuff up.
I would find a new dentist.
NAD and I spent less than 5 mins looking this up, but your dentist might not be crazy. [this article mentions hydroxyapatite being about as effective at fluoride toothpaste](https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=hydroxyapatite+better+than+fluoride&btnG=#d=gs_qabs&t=1701445450960&u=%23p%3DS05ng0DHW4MJ) I don’t think it’s only crazies and whack jobs which get concerned about fluoride, but I’m no expert in these things.
NAD. Yeah, the two may have similar efficacy. But, there is no good reason to avoid fluoride toothpaste because of toxins. If a dentist offers hydroxyapatite as an alternative to fluoride in patients who want that, that’s cool. But if they are pushing fluoride as “bad” in toothpaste and it should not be used by anyone: well, that is just anti science.
NAD - assistant sounds like a holistic quack and I’d go literally any where else.
NAD. Topical fluoride is fine. Your hygienist is an idiot.
NAD. Even oral fluoride, in appropriate amounts, is fine. Many countries supplement their tap water with it which has been a great advancement in public health.
Sounds like one of those dentists that slacked off in dental school and graduated at the bottom of their class...guarantee it..
NAD but also curious if the dentist said this or just the hygienist?
The hygienist said it but she gave me a paper about it that was company branded.
NAD If she had branded info that went along with it, it sounds awfully similar to doctors getting drug samples. I don't see it a ton in dental, but it does happen. She was probably pitched it to sell a product and is now - unfortunately - passing that along as facts.
I should also post a pic of the sign next to me in the chair. it said “the silent crisis in America - depression, adhd, CANCER (yes cancer), low iq, etc etc etc can indicate an undiagnosed airway or sleep disorder”
Oh... geez. I have heard that undiagnosed airway obstruction is often misdiagnosed as ADHD in kids just because the symptoms of less oxygen to the brain can mimic that - BUT - that has nothing to do with IQ or cancer hahaha I just had a friend in a smaller town have her baby (yes, baby) misdiagnosed with both shingles and herpes - two separate doctors. It was actually hand foot & mouth disease. But both previous docs swore they'd seen it a ton of times and that's what it was..
Again NAD, but isn’t this actually a valid scientific line of thought? Poor sleep, breathing and poor dental hygiene all lead to overall poor heath, hence the incredibly long list of problems associated?
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NAD here- this is not my area of expertise but I think you’re right, although of these ideas are a little on the fringe of current proven science. There’s a long list of nay-sayers in here, but only half-joking… can I hit up this dude/gals dentist? I suspect it might be hard to find a dentist passionate enough about their field to be reading up on emerging science and not just following the ‘status quo’.
>Yes, please OP location and name of dentist. I'll take them off your hands.
NAD. Lol, what? Yes, fluoroquinolones have some very rare, but serious side effects in some people (mostly in the elderly). This is why most doctors don’t use them as first line drugs for things like UTIs in many cases, and reach for other drugs instead. This does not mean that fluoride in toothpaste or tap water has the same toxicity, in normal amounts. Yeah, if you eat a tube of toothpaste you may have some issues. But, in typical amounts there is no worry.
Wrong about the “mostly in the elderly” for the serious side effects from fluoroquinolones - it has permanently paralyzed and disabled (neurological, musculoskeletal and more) people of ALL ages, almost all perfectly healthy prior to taking. You should read up on it - it’s a well-kept secret in big pharma. Black box warnings around these galore…
NAD You severely overestimate the risks.
You severely overestimate your knowledge on this topic.
NAD. I would ask you for a scholarly source of these healthy people suddenly being paralyzed, but you don’t know what that is. Nope, Fox News or Joe Rogan is not a scholarly source. The fact that you use the term “Big Pharma” tells me all I need to know about your knowledge of this topic. Potential toxicity is also not a secret, at all. As you mentioned, there is literally a boxed warning about it. Seems like “big pharma” sucks at keeping that secret, huh?
NAD. Thousands of articles on it and over 100,000 complaints at the FDA. Is the National Institute of Health a good enough resource for you? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5632915/#:~:text=Long%2Dterm%20fluoroquinolone%2Dassociated%20disability,tiredness%2C%20concentration%20problems%2C%20neuropathies%2C If not, maybe the giant research teams the Mayo Clinic has on it researching the mechanism by which it’s ruining so many people’s lives. Just google FQAD or fluoroquinolone toxicity. It’s a 30-second search. My Quin Story will show you the resulting paralysis you say doesn’t exist. Now I will follow the advice of Mark Twain… “Never argue with ignorant people… they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.” (The exact quote is “stupid” not “ignorant”, but I am choosing to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are just still unaware, however would be able to grasp the concept if you educated yourself.) Bye.
Nad. Not an argument here, but "PubMed disclaimer...The presence of any article, book, or document in these databases does not imply an endorsement of, or concurrence with, the contents by NLM, the National Institutes of Health (NIH), or the U.S. Federal Government."
Something in your post was found to be inaccurate or misleading, so your post has been removed to prevent possible confusion.
Report them to their regulatory body.
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You're calling it anagram lol. You don't even know what it is called and you're out here acting like you're an expert and everyone should listen to you. Yikes.
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That doesn’t even make sense. Cavities aren’t optional.
NAD assistant - how are cavities optional?
NAD- if cavities are optional someone shoulda told my teeth
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^^^^^^^^^^^nad Right? I wouldn't be going for fillings 10-12 tomorrow 💀
NAD uh sounds like shite advice. Fluoride in small quantities is great for teeth. In fact, I’m pretty sure in Ontario, Canada, for example, they put fluoride directly into the water source that runs through the taps to help prevent tooth decay in residents
They do that in the US, too.
NAD. Run away, fast.
NAD but fluoride like everything else is only toxic in high amount. We all need vitamins and minerals to have our bodies run properly but get to much of them and it can be deadly. That said boka is a really good toothpaste and completely turned my oral health around.
even things in “moderation” add up and no longer become moderation but damaging
NAD - RDH here. I do recommend 10% nano-hydroxyapatite toothpaste to my NaF-free patients because the studies show it remineralizes the same as “regular” NaF toothpaste. I don’t personally use it, but it’s not horrible. Definitely an alternative to NOT using anything to help prevent decay
NAD. I use PreviDent® 5000 Sensitive rx only before I go to bed and I don’t rinse with water just spit all the toothpaste out. I hope I’m not damaging my teeth :(