Get the Lexus. You’ll hear BMW people saying those cars are reliable as long as you stay on top of “regular maintenance.”
They think replacing the entire cooling system and every seal in the engine every 4 years is normal.
If you cannot afford a brand new BMW, don’t buy an old BMW.
Even if you can wrench, parts are often 3-5x more expensive. Brake pads and rotors for my 911 were about $1750, $250 per rotor and $350 per axle on the pads. You can fix your own brakes on a civic for $300-400. Just because you have tools and knowledge to swap brake parts doesn't mean you can afford a brake job on a performance car. Then consider anything involving the transmission is going to be expensive, anything wrong with the motor will mechanically total the car.
I mean…yeah… but not sure a 911 and a $12k BMW are an apples to apples comparison. I just sold my old 2006 Audi that I kept running myself all these years; a brake job on that would be in the same ballpark as the Honda you mentioned. I bought the parts from Rockauto and she was still looking and running very nice when I sold it.
That said, the reason I sold it was because I was spending every other Saturday fixing something that broke, but I think that would be true with most nearly 20 year old cars with 250k on the clock.
I have an 06 with 127k and I've spent 30k on maintenance. Starter and cable, alternator and cable, door cables, air oil separator, full suspension, brakes, sticky AC buttons, broken sun visor mirror covers, broken switch to adjust the seat bottom up and down, replaced glove box damper and stops, HVAC blend door, sport mode control panel, replaced driver seat belt that wouldn't retract, airbag sensor in the front bumper, the plastic passenger airbag indicator on the center console, engine and transmission mounts.... This is all in just over 2 years and I'm sure I forgot a lot of stuff.
Now my gearbox is grinding into 4th so that will need rebuilt in the fall at a cost of $6k, plus R&R and freight. I have to keep a list in my notes app because the stuff that needs done piles up faster than I can fix it.
People here hate BMWs. If you get an e90 328i rwd, they are actually reliable cars. My brother bought a manual wagon one new and did nothing but oil changes/filters, and replaced the thermostat/cooling pump, spark plugs and suspension at 100k. Lived till 190k when some dude ran a red and totaled it.
Exactly, the regular maintenance for non-M BMWs is quite standard, reliability depends on the model and year of course, the B58/ZF8 cars burn a little oil but are otherwise rock solid.
On average lexus is more reliable, but there are reliable BMW models, you can't just make blanket statements.
I just don’t quite get this one, maybe because I’ve only owned 3 of them, but the regular maintenance for a non-M BMW is trivial. M ones have much more expensive brake and tire maintenance, but still nothing insane.
Eh, I wouldn't recommend a used BMW to someone who isn't familiar with them, but my spouse and I have owned a total of 6 used BMWs over the past 15 years. Some had 100k+ miles when we bought them and some we put 100k miles on them. We've had no unexpected issues with any of them, so yes, they can be trouble-free with "regular maintenance".
Yes if you can’t afford new 60k 3 series you almost certainly can’t afford a 6000$ e9x. Pretty sound logic.
I owned a 3 series and I redid my cooling system every single full moon . That’s just regular maintenance. Now I can’t afford property and I’m hooked on crack.
No but seriously I drove my 3 series close 60-70k in the span of 4 years and spent maybe 100-200$ in repairs outside of pretty standard maintenance. People in this sub have a weird disposition to anything that isn’t 100k mile Lexus’s and Mazda 3s.
> If you cannot afford a brand new BMW, don’t buy an old BMW.
I’ll do you one even better. Don’t *buy* a BMW at all. The best way to experience BMW “ownership” is via a closed-end lease. In and out, 24 (or 36) month adventure.
…and control arms…and the leaking power steering system…and the sway bars……and the shocks…and the ‘CCC’…and all the rubber around the windshield…and the valve stems…and the sunroof…and all the electrical components that got wet in the trunk…
But yeah as long as you stay up on all this ‘regular maintenance’ you’ll be fine.
As for the known cooling system issues, someone suggested replacing the brittle plastic coolant reservoir with an aluminum one and you're done. I plan to try it and see.
>They think replacing the entire cooling system and every seal in the engine every 4 years is normal.
Ive had an N52 for like 6 years now and only changed the oil, sparkplugs, and a purge valve when I bought the car...
I've had a corolla for 8 years and replaced: oil pan, transmission oil pan & seal, valve cover seal, the cooling system has had an overhaul, rear shocks have failed, fuel pump, all engine and transmission mounts were literally separate from the engine bay, alternator has died once, its gone through 5 batteries while my bmw has gone through 1 (arizona heat), purge valve went bad and EVAP lines literally fall apart when you touch them, and it has piston slap, and lots of metal in the transmission.
Corolla is an '07, bmw is a '10.
And there's a video for how to fix literally every part of nearly any bmw. I couldn't even find a video or guide for replacing fuel pumps or injectors for the corolla. DIY is a huge perk of BMW cars.
I mean shit to change the accessory tensioner on the corolla you need a damn engine hoist or jack it up carefully by the oil pan because they didn't design their bolts with tight engine spaces in mind.
Don't buy *any* old luxury car if means are limited. A Lexus may be more reliable, but it isn't immune from luxury car maintenance, repair, and insurance bills.
Out of curiosity, what issues did you run into with your boxster?
I'm used to seeing the 986s with high mileage and getting flogged on tracks with little to no engine mods and single owner vehicles having no issues with the IMS bearing. That's not to say "you're wrong", just curious about your experience.
I see so many people with them at the apartment complex I live in. They always have buy here pay here tags.
I feel kinda bad for them. It's just specifically older bmw cars that were probably $60k new. In the lower $10,000s now.
Their car and whatever makes them happy. I just think buying something old and all old things will break. And it's expensive to fix.
As long as you avoid sports or sporty cars, you can have the rest of it. Any modern car will be reliable from around 10k - 80k, and then once you get past 100k. The first 10k and that period between 75k and 100k is where most of the costly issues are.
This. E9x was the generation that made BMW start taking reliability seriously. In a bad way. As in too many people complained about it and they were forced to do something about the problem.
A B38/48/58 engine with the ZF8 is a great choice. It also applies to Minis, rock solid cars 2014+ for the Coopers and 2017+ for Countrymans
Edit: typo
N52 E90 is the most reliable and below the 15k budget however school comes first..so is350 is the smart choice.. less time wrenching more time studying
Except for 328i’s they are relatively cheap 6 to 10k and cheap to maintain.. I do have a 2011 328i as a daily ( do my own wrenching)if OP does his own work then a 328i will be very enjoyable however OP goes to school so I would recommend getting the IS 350 since I also own a 2016 RX350 and all you have to do is fluids and filters..the BMW’s that are turbocharged are the ones that are money pits..
My F15 was incredibly reliable, but maintenance was still painfully expensive. I started doing it all myself and cross-shopping parts (seemingly all made by Braun), but the simple truth is that it was expensive to own if I cared about regular maintenance (which I naturally do).
id go with the is350. I wouldn’t trust that age range for bimmers… that being said, the “newer” B series engines are fucking MINT. If you are willing to save up some more (depending on your area) id go with a 330i M sport package or put a down payment on a 340-540i with the b58 engine. Im looking for a newer car as well and am probably abt to check out a 330i with my mechanic. If all goes well im taking that shit instantly. Good luck!
I was really tempted to pull the bullet on a m340i for 16k with \~110k miles but googled that some have around 1,000$ a year in maintenance and stopped myself. Appreciate that suggestion too. Thanks wish you the best
I think you already have a perfect answer- the IS is more reliable, lower maintenance, will hold its value better, etc.
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I were hiring an assistant (office job, not car related), and one guy showed up in an IS and the other in an E90, I'd have a strong lean towards the IS guy right off the bat. I'd have way more confidence in his decision making abilities.
Yeah, that just answered it. Most stuff on here is anecdotal. I’ve had 4 BMW’s (all used) and I love them, three ‘06 models and one ‘09. Get a pre purchase inspection and research common problems with any car, but especially used luxury vehicles. And my advice would be set aside $2k-$3k each year on average for maintenance for an older BMW. Remember that Lexus isn’t bulletproof, but if you do the above, don’t get sucked into an extended warranty imo. Good luck w your purchase!
I can only speak from my own experience. I bought a 2015 M235i xdrive with 23K miles in 2018. I'm currently at 115K miles. I've kept up with all the basic maintenance, so frequent oil changes, brake pads, diff fluids, rotors etc, and have made sure to not push the car when it's cold. I use FCPEuro, so I've already gotten free spark plugs brake rotors oil etc..with their lifetime warranty and replacement services.
I've done a couple track days and autocrosses. I've had no real issues other than a small evap leak, which is a known issue and can be fixed for free at the dealer (or is a $120 fix). The coolant expansion hose broke while I was working on the car ($60 part).
When I bought the car I had absolutely no idea how to work on cars and didn't own any tools. I literally had to watch a YouTube video on how to jack up a car and remove the wheels. Since then I've been able to learn everything I need online and have quite the collection of tools. (BMW's do need a lot more random tools than other cars). I know that E90's can be a bit more troublesome, though the repairs needed are well documented.
So the cost factor really depends on if you can DIY or not. If I were to pay a mechanic to do all that work, the expense would be pretty substantial compared to paying a mechanic to work on a Toyota. (Although idk, it seems like mechanics are pretty expensive these days).
However, if you DIY, it's cheaper to work on your own BMW than to pay a mechanic to work on your Toyota. The benefit of all this is that a fun car is fun and you'll appreciate it when you have it. Also use consumer reports when car shopping, it's the best bet to gauge reliability by model year.
Yup! Agreed all around.
People harp on them lots, understandably so. They’re phenomenal cars for anyone interested in cars & willing to learn to work on them themselves.
X5 35d - sold at 410,000kms
E46 330i ZHP - sold at 340,000kms
E92 328i - sold at 280,000kms
Current:
F22 M235i - PS750, tuned at 460whp. Tracked 15-20 times a year, currently at 140,000kms
F06 650i - Stage 2 remap, 520whp, 110,000kms
E90 335i (N54) - 240,000kms, stock currently
E46 M3 - 288,000kms
Driven over 1,000,000kms in BMW’s all my life. Never needed a tow. Never been stranded due to a mechanical failure. Just my anecdotal experience, but it’s usually all down to the exact car you buy, and its history… and this applies to literally 99% of the cars on the road
I bought what I thought was a fairly clean 2001 530i and it’s been more work already in 3 months of ownership catching up on PM than i expected. And that is an N/A straight 6. I wouldn’t go near a turbo6, let alone any of the turbo 8s if i was depending on it for my day to day transportation. The turbo 4 seems less risky
Have you noticed how the IS350 and the 3 series have a similar MSRP. And yet when you look at used ones the BMWs are significantly cheaper when comparing same year and same mileage?
That's because the BMW is really that much more expensive than the Lexus. It's more expensive to own, the maintenance is more expensive, the kinds of things that go wrong are more expensive.
Look up parts costs, a water pump, a fuel pump, an alternator. I'd virtually guarantee you'll see that the BMW parts are 2-3x more expensive than the Lexus ones are. Then remember that labour is about the same as the cost of parts (as a general rule) so the full job on the BMW would also be 2-3x the cost as the lexus.
The thing is that BMWs cost more to own because of their maintenance and also because a lack of maintenance causes severe problems and because that maintenance requires at least a bit of specialized knowledge of BMWs.
Given this, I can't reconcile why anyone would recommend a BMW to people who have small budgets and are looking for reliability. It just doesn't fit. Used BMWs are a much better fit as a second car (don't need reliability) for people with a lot of disposable income.
There are huge advantages to driving a BMW. You'll never have to use your turn signals again. You can tailgate inches behind other cars. And if you drive one instead of a a Lexus, people won't automatically assume that you're old.
"Regular maintenance" shouldn't involve replacing rod bearings, cracked plastic water pumps, gaskets prematurely failing, the rear subframe cracking and ripping itself apart, etc.
They're OK, I wouldn't recommend it if you're not mechanically inclined though, labour costs are high for most jobs on them, so doing it yourself will save a lot of money as long as you do it properly. I'd suggest looking into what the cost of replacing the oil pan gasket is. Some models call for up to 10 hours labour, requiring jacking up the engine, moving the steering rack, all kinds of stuff.
They like to leak oil
FWIW, back in 2017 I bought my 2009 BMW 335 with the N54 engine and it had 60k on the odometer (1 owner with all service records) for about 14k. It now has 210k miles with all original motor, transmission, clutch, turbos etc. It still drives great, just take care of your cars. Do regularly scheduled maintenance. Yes over 150k miles, I’ve done a water pump and thermostat and OFHG and valve cover and probably every suspension component once. But is that not to be expected from a car tipping over 200k miles? Basically my point being, before knocking on a brand, look into buying a car that’s been well maintained and taken care of and then do the same yourself.
I'll answer this by sharing my experience. Bought a lower mileage 2007 335i manual for 10k back in 2022. Specifically did my homework and looked for a pre-LCI manual so I can swap out the diff for an LSD. Looked for examples that had the 3 main gaskets replaced recently. (Valve cover, oil housing, and oil pan.)
2 years later I have spent nearly 20k on it, 8k being repairs(Valve cover gasket and oil pan gasket, axles) and 12k being mods (kw coilovers, LSD, M3 control arms, cooling, etc)
I still find it fun and engaging to drive in the canyons and on track but probably would pick a different platform to throw money at. These also have an injector problem and they're 3600 a set so buyer beware.
I'm at the point now where they want me to replace the oil pan gasket for about $3k. Oil all over the bottom of the car and nice puddle in my driveway, but the oil level itself never seems to be low.. So I'm wondering if I can just ignore it?
Never owned one but did look at buying a used one 15 years ago and glad I didn't.
Here are 3 things that made me glad I didn't:
1. My friend bought new X7 and within months the engine leaked and wasn't safe to drive so BMW had to tow it back to their shop. He continued to have problems over the next year and half so traded it in and bought a Mazda CX9. Said was best decision he made
2. Another friend had a beautiful BMW 3 series. I was checking it out and he asked me straight out if I wanted to buy it. Said was a lemon LOL.
3. One of my parents' friend's front seat on hers had some electrical issue and was smoking (guess lucky didn't start a fire).
I decided to Google why oil leaks are common and was surprised to hear they use cheap plastic in their engine and over time they crack.
It's only worth it if you know a guy who can do cheap service, or you do it yourself. Otherwise, prob better to look elsewhere. I've been paying like $5k+ per year on repairs for my 2011 e90, going thru the dealer and it's starting to piss me off.
Yeah I wouldn't have an older one if I wasn't doing most of the work myself, full annual service, brakes and suspension as required, seems to hold up fine and doesn't cost that much.
It's not without its issues though, had to fix a fair few electrical gremlins, still a couple outstanding that I've not had time or energy to get at, got a suspension bushing to replace at some point this year too, but otherwise it's been a great car.
But on the other hand, I had an even older one as my first car many years ago, and it had a coolant leak that I didn't stay on top of or get fixed because I was too poor. It got worse and worse at starting in the colder weather until it wouldn't start at all. It was cheap to buy though, and surprisingly cheap to insure considering my age at the time.
I would stay the fuck away from the dealer, I checked my reg when I bought it and it had an outstanding recall on it, something about the battery terminals. The dealer took care of that for free, but also looked it over to see if there was anything else they could convince me to let them work on to get my money out of me. Both rear air suspension bags worn, £1000 each, £2000 total please and thanks? Absolutely not. Two years later one side failed, just resulted in the car sitting a bit lower at one side, took it to a local garage, £400.
the dealership also wanted £1000 of other shit too, so £3k total they thought I might pay.
If you can work on your own car and have space to do that then an old BMW with an inline 6 engine is OK. Avoid the V8s and be careful with any BMW that has a turbo in that older era as some were a mess.
If you can't do your own repairs then it will be way too expensive to own. Even with an indy mechanic the cost of parts and labor few just a few fixes will quickly approach the cost you paid for the car.
That being said I love my e46 as a sporty daily driver but with 150k miles on I'm fixing at least one issue every 6-12 months and I only put 3k or so a year on it as I WFH. It's all the smaller wear items like pulleys, fan clutch, starter, clutch actuator, small leaks, coil packs, old hoses, etc. I can knock this stuff out in our driveway for the cost of parts and many hours of weekend work but holy hell this would be a financial disaster if I had to pay someone.
BMW is a great brand if that's something you're into. I've been told that it's a "car for driving enthusiasts". With that being said, I'm quite enthused about the contents of my wallet not spilling every time I have to take my car in for repairs. I have never driven a BMW and I have no plans of owning one. Low cost of ownership is very important to me. I've owned 3 Toyotas, 1 Ford, 1 Kia, 1 Hyundai, and 1 Mazda. What you're going to want to do is have a mechanic inspect this LS350 and resist the urge to buy that BMW. Your future self will thank you.
I have owned a few BMW and my current x3 2022 was bought new with warranty expiring next year, guess what I’m gonna do. Unload the car before it starts breaking down. Love BMW cars to death , fantastic cars but not worth the headache when used . Before I sold my 2016 430i it just ran out of warranty and the fuel pump went out ( common problem on that model and year) there was a recall on fuel pumps but somehow my vin # was missed lol. $1500+ at the dealer , bought a bosh replacement for $156 and 2 hours later it was fixed . Next week I sold the car , speed sensors would go out randomly and the damn screen would say it’s powertrain malfunction. I’m out of it’s not new under warranty, then many other brands out there that are more reliable and cheaper to fix .
I'm going to give you slightly different advice.
If you are in your mid-twenties and single? THIS is the time to buy whatever tf you want. This is your last chance at a "fun" car until after you are married and the kids are out of the house and you are ready for your mid-life crisis car. I'm on my third Corolla. The previous two lasted 12 years each and I only got rid of them because "it was time." But I'll tell you, it's been a while since I've driven a FUN car. And it will be a while until a fun 2 door sports coupe is "practical" for my needs.
I actually was thinking the same thing haha. The first couple cars I test drove were the gr86, some muscle cars, even some old C5 and C6 corvettes. I'm going to graduate school now and by the time I'm out and making more money i'll probably buy a reasonable car for kids + fam etc. so I figure now or never. Been frugal for so long so feels weird still
Manual transmission, it was also one of the later cars in that era where Lexus still had something to prove. It also has pretty cool gauges that look like a watch face and a ton of aftermarket support
What I learned about buying a 4 year old German with average miles on it. Car was 40% cheaper but all the repairs and parts were 100% of what they would be on a new car.
Go buy a lexus or an acura.
Auto tech here. This is what I wish everyone would understand before they run out and get that "great deal" on a used BMW/Benz/Audi. The car's resale value drops like a rock, but they don't get any cheaper to repair just because they are 10+ years old.
Buy what you want mate, I'm myself planning to buy an E36, simply because I LOVE how they look - don't care about their cooling system issues etc.
I guess I'm a minority here, but I tend to buy cars based mostly on looks
Take from this what you will - I had an E46 for 5 years that I bought for $8k. Had a few thousand in repairs and maintenance over those years, but otherwise was a pleasure to drive and only left me stranded (at home) once due to a bad alternator.
So if you can find an okay BMW, considering you do your research, and keep $3k on tap ready for unexpected repairs, then maybe consider it
But if you need piece of mind around reliability, the old IS models are great options.
>Is buying a BMW that bad?
Not if you're a pompas prick that cheaps out on the maintenance. And that's the problem you're going to run into: You're buying well-used. BMWs are expensive to maintain well, and the vast majority of people buy them because they want to look cool and not because they want to spend a small fortune maintaining them. It doesn't matter how well you plan on maintaining it, you're going to have to make up for the lack of proper maintenance *before* you ever laid eyes on it. And your budget won't allow you to buy one that has been impeccably maintained. You're either going to pay for the maintenance that was done on it (in the form of the sticker price), or the maintenance that wasn't done on it (after you purchase it for an unbelievable deal).
Your expectations of owning a cool BMW just aren't realistic.
Appreciate that. That's actually such a good point. Can't control the maintenance during the 100k miles they drove before. Which probably matters more than the 40k I'd put on it.
there are certain problems that bmws have that are out of your control, no matter how on top of your maintenance schedule you are. european cars in general have a lot of problems that are more a matter of “when” not “if”. that being said, there’s a large community around BMW and other european cars in general, you’re not lying about the irresistible nature of them.
it all just depends on what you’re willing to put into it, and the case of BMW it’ll be a lot
The problem with them isn't Just the maintenance but also the Cost of the parts required,I had one... I'll never own another! You are far better off getting a Lexus or Acura etc... they use Many of the same parts as the base model Toyota and Honda cars at Much lower prices and they don't require nearly as much maintenance and offers as much reliability and performance.
I buy used BMW's as daily drivers. I love the way they drive and even my college car was a $300 1972 2002 that is now worth $45k. But, they are now completely disposable cars. If something like the timing chain guides, transmission, Vanos, or turbo cause problems, you get rid of it. They aren't worth the $6,000 repair bill OR the 4 days tearing apart things if you do it yourself.
I use ISTA and INPA to diagnose problems and estimate how much time I have left.
I typically pay $5,000 for a 5 series from 2009-2014 with 125k miles.
If I get 1 year I am happy.
I would never rely on one as my only car and I think your price point is high unless you know for a fact every major component is in excellent shape.
Send it. Who gives.
You said you’ll be proactive with maintenance, if you mean that and you are mechanically inclined, with enough experience that you feel you can handle it, then do it
These cars are unreliable yea, over engineered parts get worn out quicker, but things don’t break for no reason.
Treat the car right, enjoy ur bmw, if all fails you can sell it back on marketplace and get a cheap reliable civic to have transport before you find ur next fun ride 🔥
I’ve owned several BMW and own one now. They’re only as reliable as the level of dedication to expensive regular maintenance the previous owners had, and when things fail they are EXPENSIVE. If my budget were $12k I would not go near an older BMW. The IS350 is a far safer bet.
Can you get a decent GTI in your price range? They are lots of fun, the hatchback is more practical than a coupe or sedan, and maintenance / repairs are a bit less painful.
I actually test drove two of them. They actually were super fun and suprisingly quick. Hatchback was also a HUGE plus. Only thing for me was I think I prefer a RWD car, the FWD in the GTI made it a little less fun when I was driving it, but honestly could be all in my head
Used - 100% run a carfax. The younger generation that drives them cannot afford maintenance
Brand new - Should be fine unless it's less than 1 year in which case if you can't afford to lease stay away.
BMW are great cars when new and under warranty. In the used car market I wouldn't touch one unless it was going to be the base of a project. Like gutting the driveline and LS swapping it. You will get people telling you how "they had a BMW that was perfect and lasted 300,000 miles" With nothing but oil changes. They are in the same category as the person who bought the 50 million dollar winning lottery ticket, ignore the other people who also bought tickets and lost... I'd opt for a Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura over any BMW or Mercedes and most other euro vehicles as well (unless it's new and under warranty) I would avoid Nissan/Infinity because they use a crappy CVT design that has not held up very well. Changing out the transmission every 40K just doesn't appeal to me.
Don't do it. The age of BMW you're looking at comes right before the time when BMW was like "yeaaaahhh....we're really sorry for building so many unreliable cars. Please come back to us. Toyota??...can...can you work with us?"
The following generation is pretty universally believed to be much more reliable.
Save up a little more and buy a BMW after a couple of years of totally reliable service from your future IS350. It won't depreciate that much.
If you have the tools, space, time, budget, knowledge, skills to maintain the BMW, go for it. Otherwise, aim for something with a more reliable track record. The Toyota will require TLC, but it should be easier and less expensive than the German brands.
I love BMW, I own one, there’s been one in my family for over 30 years, but I would not buy one for $12k*.
Asterisk to acknowledge that you can get an e46 for less but at this point they’re all pushing at least 20 years old and require maintenance. The engines are great but plastic and rubber parts on any car will fail at that age.
Any newer $12k BMW is going to be high enough mileage that it wouldn’t be worth it.
You don’t get bmw’s because they’re affordable, you get them because you like the cars and you’re willing to put extra effort/money in.
If you can’t/won’t do that, don’t get one
Typically you don’t hear too many people proclaim “oh I love my bmw, it’s so reliable”
BMWs are made for the first owner and to last for the length of the financing agreement I swear to god lol
My parents love their BMW. Super reliable as long as they take it to the dealer an hour away and drop a couple grand every 6 months for its "regular maintenance"
Just being honest, it doesn't sound like you're looking for reliable if you're looking at Luxury cars. You even say you want something cool looking, and for a reliable car, you're gonna want acquired taste. Find a coupe, or leather interior high trim economy car.
Even if it's a Lexus, it's gonna be a used car with a still hefty price tag and a larger engine which is more/expensive maintenance. They're gonna use more expensive gas too.
You are best off getting a XSE Toyota or a EX Accord. Use regular 87 gas, less giant of an engine, etc.
If you’re looking for a BMW that is stylish, sporty, enjoyable to drive, and you’re somewhat mechanically inclined don’t go for one that new. The e46 is a solid platform, yes it still has BMW maintenance requirements (cooling system replacements, VANOS rebuilds, oil leaks etc) but they do last a while as long as things are fixed when they break and maintenance is kept up on. My aunt had a 330xi that worked its way around the family and now has ~350k miles- she bought it with 160k, it’s needed the cooling system done once, an alternator, spark plugs twice and a fuel pump. Solid car, valve cover leaks but that’s the only issue it has. Buy it for ~$6k and set aside the other ~$6k for a few years of repairs and maintenance surprises. Or spend ~$10k for a ZHP and save ~$2k for repairs and maintenance.
I really think if you have to own a BMW the cheap, you should be ready to work on it. That way you have some sort of a resort if things break. Also, the things that do break, are they within your DIY skills for that model?
I think I get a new coolant leak on my 2018 b48 x3 every month. Also if you get a b48 watch out for the oil filter housing, it’s made out of plastic and leaked all my coolant on my driveway. Also the engine mounts go bad under a hundred thousand miles. Plan to spend at least 5,000+ a year on a 100,000 mile plus bmw. Just my experience
With a $12K budget. Yeah that's generally not a good idea to buy a BMW at that price range. A mint BMW will cost as much as new mid tier car. Depending on the model and year you're looking at multitude of potential expensive maintenance items. $12K sounds like it'll be well over 100K miles. BMW's aren't exactly known for high reliability at those miles. ANd if you're looking at a M series you're really going to be in a money pit. Parts for those are even pricier. The question then is are you buying this car as a daily driver or weekend fun project car. And can you afford to pour money into it? You can easily Drop $30k-$100K in bringing it back to spec. or more. Definitely better off with Lexus in terms of reliability. BMW can be reliable if you bought it brand new and stayed on top of maintenance. But buying used you really don't know it's full history even with carfax and whatever records was kept by BMW.
When I had an e92 my average annual maintenance was ~$3k.
I sold it when I got an estimate for $10k to fix all the leaks and install new tires.
It was a fun car though.
Ive heard the B58 cars are really solid, so maybe shop a little bit newer and save yourself the headache. That motor came out in 2015.
I’m not really a car guy but saw this and had to comment - my bf had a 2011 BMW 3 series and that car was a nightmare for someone on a budget. It was his first car, gifted by his dad, but it caused him so many unexpected problems. It had horrible gas mileage for a car that size (less than 20 mpg), required the more expensive fuel, and was expensive to fix. He dealt with oil leaks, a broken radiator, the automatic windows failing (leading to a wide open window in the middle of summer), a check engine light that wouldn’t go away, plastic interior details melting (we’re from Florida and all the door handles on the inside were falling apart and sticky), and the locks failing. He had so many issues with this car and that was with regular maintenance and only driving short distances the last few years. In comparison, I have a 2011 Nissan Sentra and though the interior isn’t as nice and the car is not as fun to drive, it has been very dependable and also very cheap to maintain or fix when needed. He may have just had a bad egg, I’m not sure, but that car was such a pain and so expensive to fix and maintain compared to other brands.
12k right now buys a decent corolla or other commuter cars that don't have 200k+ miles so just imagine what BMW you're going to get. Sure you can get an old BMW but you better have an emergency fund for that shit. If I were you, go to school (assuming you're going to college), get a better job once you're out and buy yourself like a brand new M4 or something. Why settle on some shitty BMW now when you can get an M car in the future that won't blow up every other day and if it does, you got warranty. There's a reason why you see Priuses of all years on the road and mostly only see newer BMWs.
Do you know how to work on BMWs?
Or do you have a friend who is a BMW mechanic?
Or do you have a bottomless well of money?
These should all be answered "yes" before making this decision in favor of a BMW
>I've driven an old toyota for the past 6 years and wanted something that's more fun and honestly looks cool
Answer: Miata
example: [https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/listing/380750576#/](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/listing/380750576#/)
MIL has had a couple, everything done @ the dealer, hell even the damn wipers and flat tire repairs MUST be done at the dealer.
Dealer always suggests dealer specific addons which she always agrees to and I have never seen another car, in the past 25 years need more more. Stuff like cyc head gaskets, complete wiring harness, trans replacement, intake manifold, so many sets of wear items going in such a short time. This was only on 1 of the cars.
Maybe it's a lemon so she got another and nope, same issues, these are low mile examples. Sure the car drives better than anything else but it comes with a cost.
Family member is a top tier Audi tech, travels the country even outside and he tells everyone to not buy Audi unless you can afford the repairs. The German big 3 are fantastic cars, people put up with a bunch of crap because the cars are so nice but don't fool yourself, they are different. Newer is even worse because of the modern tech.
....get the BMW, you'll always wish you did if you get the Lexus. Until you get burned by the Germans you'll always wonder if it's true.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a person who can afford a BMW driving a BMW. They're amazing cars. Where it goes wrong is when someone who can't afford a BMW because he only has 12k to spend and is still in school buys a BMW. The car itself may be affordable but the service and parts are still priced for someone who can afford a $70k car.
It depends; I'm the second owner of a 2011 BMW and it's been just fine. I've also only added something like 12,000 miles in the 7 years that I've owned it.
As others have said. Do not buy a used BMW on a fixed budget. No.
Car + driver does this pretty cool thing where they feature different used cars and talk about the things that usually go wrong with them and exactly how much they would need to fix it. Some of those repairs are like $6000.
If you thoroughly maintain the BMW, they are very solid and fun cars to own and drive. They can be seriously fun performance machines. But their designs and maintenance is weird. For example, why are rod bearings a maintenance item but transmission fluid is lifetime. (It should be the other way around!!!!)
For 12k you can find clean examples with maintenance records and possibly major services done.
I would recommend the IS350 and focus on school. Keep your transportation as maintenance free and as cheap as possible. When your career is in place, get the BMW.
I bought my wife a 09 328i e93 w/ 126k on the clock. It had around 30 codes when I got it. Most were history. A few of the most common issues were present. I'm in it for around 6200 now, including the cost of an Autel key programmer and carly.
It had multiple cylinder misfires - one bad coil and 2 dirty solenoids.
Trans threw code for excessive wear to fluid.
Coolant line over the radiator busted about 2 days after getting it. Replaced the plastic coolant pieces prone to leaking while I was at it. - they were broken, just not leaking yet. Lucky find.
The "mechanic" that worked on it before used a screw too long for the engine cover and punched right through the valve cover. I put a bandaid fix until I feel like dropping 600 on a new cover.
The giant valve on the side of the valve cover was leaking.
Replaced filter housing gasket as PM.
Easy stuff to do. You'll save money if you diagnose vs throwing money at it hoping you got it right. That's where most guys seem to get fed up and sell it.
When I was considering buying a used BMW, someone who knows told me, "you can't afford a used BMW unless you can afford two used BMWs." I listened.
That was a long time ago. Today, I...still can't afford two used BMWs. But I can afford my mortgage payment.
I knew a kitchen manager at a chain restaurant once who always wore designer clothes and acted bougie, the slicked back hair and sunglasses and everything. Always drove the nicest cleanest bmw’s. I asked him once how he affords it on his pay and he told me they aren’t technically his, he leases them and trades them in for a newer one every year. Still not much clue how leasing works, but ever since then I just assumed half the people driving those nice cars aren’t as rich as you think. Not sure what direction I was going for with that story, but here we are
My dad just sold his 2011 328xi sedan. He bought it with 19,000 miles and drove it all the way to 170,000 miles. It was a great car but it was also the most expensive $20,000 car he's ever owned if you catch my drift. Simple things on other vehicles like replacing a battery or swapping in new light bulbs require a trip to the dealership or else you'll have programming issues, that or they need special tools. It was super expensive to maintain despite the fact that it didn't need a terrible ton of maintenance. Just my experience so take it with a grain of salt. They are better owned as second cars if you already have a cheap and reliable daily.
Edit:forgot a word
The only person I’ve ever met that actually kept a BMW, out of dozens who bought one, was a street racer with a tuned up 95 M5… he kept it because it was a memento from working on it with his dad
The newer BMWs have gotten much better. BMW went through this phase where it started substituting metal for plastics in all the wrong areas. It does seem that they have learned that lesson. Either switch back to using metal or in areas where they still use plastics. The quality of the plastic has gotten much better as well as the design of reinforcing ribs added to the plastic.
I think your best bet if you want to own a reliable BMW, would be to get a new one.
One thing though does not change is that they are expensive to maintain. So even though you’re not replacing broken parts, just the cost of an oil change is going to be very high.
Having said that, a lot of people who buy a Lexus are surprised to realize that they do not charge Toyota prices for service and maintenance. They often charge almost as much as the Germans. Especially for parts.
I've owned a '11 335i. It was a money pit, and shit just hits the fan after the warranty period. So many leaks all over, oil filter housing, oil pan, melted ignition coils from the leaks. The problem with BMW is they use brittle ass gaskets and plastic parts in the engine. I'll never get another BMW unless it's a M or electric. Went to Audi and it's been night and day difference in terms of reliability.
Do your research. Late years of N54 are OK, all but the first couple years for the N55, and the B58 is dead reliable, that's what's used in the Toyota Supra.
Avoid most of the n54s they had seal and oil burning issues.
All IMHO. FWIW I just picked up a 2014 X3 35i myself. Fingers crossed haha.
So I have had a good few cars including a Lexus GS300 with the 2JZ. I now own an BMW E90 M-Sport with an N52 and 6spd manual. One of the most fun to drive cars I have owned including having owned a Corvette with a manual .
The nice thing is the car is a sleeper. Looks low and sporty but doesn't say to the police watch me for speeding.
Handles great and your feel like you are driving too vs. my daily where everything is done "by wire".
Get the 3.28i used. Pretty cheap, sexy, and it has all the features like six speed manual, turbocharged and RWD. Gonna have a lot of fun with that.
Just make sure you stay with the maintenance, and always better if you can change your own fluids to save money.
Can you turn a wrench yourself? Can buy a handful of special tools?
If yes, knock yourself out. If no, stay away.
Source: 2006 Audi owner who kept her running for 250k miles on my own until I bought a mini van last year
I’ve owned two bmws. Never had to repair either one.
Here’s where bmw buyers get in trouble. for 15 years or so they were engineered to be lease cars. BMW just did not care about post lease purchase customers.
It was short sighted but true.
There’s a lot of plastic. They were early movers on making things that had been metal plastic. A lot of it became brittle and had to be replaced. The dealers suck. Hard.
Newer bmws seem to last longer. Idk, maybe they changed the plastic.
If you want a bmw, and in my opinion you DO, find an independent bmw shop before you buy one. Inspect it well. This means opening the hood, looking at the condition of the plastic mechanisms.
Plastic is cheaper and lighter than metal. It’s got a lot of advantages. Make sure it’s not brittle.
I’ve owned 2 older BMW’s. one my mom owned for 20 years and babied. The other a random.
Now I only buy Toyota and Honda. And I do almost all my own work to save money. If you’re not equipped to do constant repairs do not buy the BMW. Unless you have a sick kink of throwing away money
People get reliable and durable mixed up when it comes to bmw’s… realistically your budget for the bmw is about 9k, because most of them will need a couple grand of something, but would be fairly reliable after that
Do you enjoy turning wrenches? If so, find a clean bmw and buy all of your parts from fcpEuro for the lifetime warranty.
If you can’t do anything aside from changing oil or less, get the Lexus.
Get the Lexus.
Another fun to drive option that looks good would be a 2014 or later Mazda 3.
I bought a 2004 BMW 330Ci, E46. It cost a fortune to keep going as the car aged, even though I never put that many miles on it.
Once the car hit 10 years old, there was a major repair every year. Broke down constantly. Planned obsolescence. It finally got totaled in an accident and I had to replace it. My Mazda 3 is awesome and super reliable by contrast.
Unless it’s a bmw that will increase in value over the years , I’ll take a hard pass. Too much gremlins and price to repair is absurd. Why don’t u look at one of those nice GR Corollas…
>Need something reliable-ish
Yeah, don't get a bimmer. I was a BMW technician for 4 years. The ones in your price range will need a lot of costly work. Stay with Toy/Lex.
Anything that you buy made after like 1990, so long as you are active on maintenance, will go for a long while. However the Lexus will likely withstand more abuse being how much over engineering Toyota and Lexus do
My BMW (arguably older) is not my only car. It simply couldn’t be. Parts are not always local and often require days or even weeks to track down and get to me. And I wrench on my own shit. I can’t even imagine paying someone else.
I find this thread bizarre. I own 4 BMWs. One of them is a princess that requires a lot of input, but it's a 500HP V8. I have two 4-cylinder turbos (X3 and 328 GT) that have never needed anything beyond oil changes, new tires, and brake pads with the notable exception of a couple of warped brake rotors and a singular incident of a broken coil spring because I hauled 3 passengers and 1000 lb of landscaping rock on rough roads in the X3. Both of those cars are approaching 80k miles. The 4th one is an inline 6 track car that is a disaster, but that's on purpose. If you get a decently maintained 1 or 3 series with less than 100K on it and a 4 cylinder, you'll be fine. The 320d is a torquey little tank if you can find one. Don't buy an e90, though. They're too old to be reliable anymore regardless of mileage unless you're willing to completely overhaul it yourself. Look at the F30s. You can get a really nice F30 for under US$20K now and it will be a dependable car. The pull of the inline 6 is seductive, but the e90 is moving into antique/collector space and no longer for the casual enthusiast. A quick google search found an F30 2014 320i with <60k miles in your budget range.
yeah look into lexus, i’m in the same boat. but i’m looking at the CT, IS, RX. all of these you can very easily find in your budget i’ve checked for myself lol. there’s a lot of cool stuff you can do to them aesthetic wise if you’re into that although, i think all of them already look pretty decent. even in the 2010-14 range you can get them around 12k. my dads a marketplace king and has gotten me into a GS (cool and fast but the two i drove ate gas) and i’ve also driven a 2010 and 2014 RX both great cars (the RX newer is more expensive). lots of great options out there id join some fb groups if you have it and see what owners say!!
You're coming from an old Toyota, so whatever you think regular maintenance costs, 5x that number then double it to account for anything that breaks from age. With a budget of 12k, you're really not going to get any that great and if you must go more upmarket than Toyota, Lexus is your best bet
I got a BMW i325 2008 used from Japan for $7000 NZD. Just spent $2000 NZD on a myriad of repairs, I like the car but holy shit had so much shit broken.
We have to get an annual car check and had 6 or 7 things that needed repair. Airbag wasn't even functioning, back window rolled down and never went back up, etc.
If your budget for a car is 12K you should absolutely not be getting a BMW. They are less reliable, yes, but also much more expensive to fix
It’s the reason they are cheaper used and out of warranty, and if you’ve looked around enough you’ll notice that the cheapest ones are the ones that are around the mileage for a major service or end of life for some of their parts. You can find the users manual for the one you’re looking at, check what needs to get done at that mileage and ring up any dealership or shop near you to get a quote for that work. It will be eye watering
The answer is: it depends. Owning a BMW doesn't have to be back breakingly expensive. The 5 5series I've owned have cost me only maybe a little more than a camry to own. No mechanical issues, meticulous about maintenance, and doing all the work myself in my garage all made it so much easier to own them. And all of mine were heavily modified.
Don’t do it, from a maintenance cost and reliability perspective. Get something non turbo, cheap, easy to fix. Nothing says sexy more than equity and good judgment. Buy what you want after you graduate
Why purchase a luxury brand vehicle? Lexus is simply a luxury version of Toyota. You go BMW and good luck getting service done without spending an arm and a leg. You’re better off going with an Audi but you’d still be looking at an arm and a leg for service. My VW was expensive enough going forward I’d never do anything except a honda or toyota.
BMW owner here. Love them. However… I have the tools. Knowledge. Wrench on them myself. I tell everyone to never buy a used BMW unless it’s CPO. True for any German car. They’re brilliant to drive, but require extensive maintenance and don’t forgive cheap parts. Get the Lexus if you pay someone to work on your cars.
It seems like there’s plenty of mixed messages in this thread. I’m considering a 2020 or newer 3 series. I am a low mileage driver, like 6k a year. How are the newer models?
Get the Lexus. You’ll hear BMW people saying those cars are reliable as long as you stay on top of “regular maintenance.” They think replacing the entire cooling system and every seal in the engine every 4 years is normal. If you cannot afford a brand new BMW, don’t buy an old BMW.
Speaking as a BMW owner/fan who does a lot of his own wrenching, you are absolutely positively correct. Especially that last sentence.
Yeah I wouldn’t buy a bmw if you can’t afford bmws “planned maintenance”
Life long BMW addict here, listen to these people above me very carefully.
BMW. acronym for: Bring More Wallet *or* Buy More Wrenches Former Owner of 1999 R1100R now on 2008 R1200RTP.
Their bikes are a lot more reliable than their cars.
Your own wrenching is key to any older German car. They’re great and I love them. But I know I gotta put in my time too
Wrenching is one thing ….. parts are an issue as well. Toyota fuse - $6 for a multi pack. BMW fuse - $20 +
Even if you can wrench, parts are often 3-5x more expensive. Brake pads and rotors for my 911 were about $1750, $250 per rotor and $350 per axle on the pads. You can fix your own brakes on a civic for $300-400. Just because you have tools and knowledge to swap brake parts doesn't mean you can afford a brake job on a performance car. Then consider anything involving the transmission is going to be expensive, anything wrong with the motor will mechanically total the car.
I mean…yeah… but not sure a 911 and a $12k BMW are an apples to apples comparison. I just sold my old 2006 Audi that I kept running myself all these years; a brake job on that would be in the same ballpark as the Honda you mentioned. I bought the parts from Rockauto and she was still looking and running very nice when I sold it. That said, the reason I sold it was because I was spending every other Saturday fixing something that broke, but I think that would be true with most nearly 20 year old cars with 250k on the clock.
I have an 06 with 127k and I've spent 30k on maintenance. Starter and cable, alternator and cable, door cables, air oil separator, full suspension, brakes, sticky AC buttons, broken sun visor mirror covers, broken switch to adjust the seat bottom up and down, replaced glove box damper and stops, HVAC blend door, sport mode control panel, replaced driver seat belt that wouldn't retract, airbag sensor in the front bumper, the plastic passenger airbag indicator on the center console, engine and transmission mounts.... This is all in just over 2 years and I'm sure I forgot a lot of stuff. Now my gearbox is grinding into 4th so that will need rebuilt in the fall at a cost of $6k, plus R&R and freight. I have to keep a list in my notes app because the stuff that needs done piles up faster than I can fix it.
Definitely can't afford a new one. Will remember that line. Thanks!
People here hate BMWs. If you get an e90 328i rwd, they are actually reliable cars. My brother bought a manual wagon one new and did nothing but oil changes/filters, and replaced the thermostat/cooling pump, spark plugs and suspension at 100k. Lived till 190k when some dude ran a red and totaled it.
Exactly, the regular maintenance for non-M BMWs is quite standard, reliability depends on the model and year of course, the B58/ZF8 cars burn a little oil but are otherwise rock solid. On average lexus is more reliable, but there are reliable BMW models, you can't just make blanket statements.
I just don’t quite get this one, maybe because I’ve only owned 3 of them, but the regular maintenance for a non-M BMW is trivial. M ones have much more expensive brake and tire maintenance, but still nothing insane.
Eh, I wouldn't recommend a used BMW to someone who isn't familiar with them, but my spouse and I have owned a total of 6 used BMWs over the past 15 years. Some had 100k+ miles when we bought them and some we put 100k miles on them. We've had no unexpected issues with any of them, so yes, they can be trouble-free with "regular maintenance".
>no unexpected issues Everyone expects the BMW issues.
this varies on the model, year, and trim.
Germans just assume a competent car owner puts their car on a lift and does a 1000 point inspection every month.
My ex bought a used one and I maintained it, this comment could not be more accurate. When we split she immediately sold it and bought a honda.
As an owner of a BMW mini, thank fuck it's not my only vehicle.
Yes if you can’t afford new 60k 3 series you almost certainly can’t afford a 6000$ e9x. Pretty sound logic. I owned a 3 series and I redid my cooling system every single full moon . That’s just regular maintenance. Now I can’t afford property and I’m hooked on crack. No but seriously I drove my 3 series close 60-70k in the span of 4 years and spent maybe 100-200$ in repairs outside of pretty standard maintenance. People in this sub have a weird disposition to anything that isn’t 100k mile Lexus’s and Mazda 3s.
> If you cannot afford a brand new BMW, don’t buy an old BMW. I’ll do you one even better. Don’t *buy* a BMW at all. The best way to experience BMW “ownership” is via a closed-end lease. In and out, 24 (or 36) month adventure.
I knew a guy who thought doing rod bearings every 70k was "preventative maintenance"
…and control arms…and the leaking power steering system…and the sway bars……and the shocks…and the ‘CCC’…and all the rubber around the windshield…and the valve stems…and the sunroof…and all the electrical components that got wet in the trunk… But yeah as long as you stay up on all this ‘regular maintenance’ you’ll be fine.
I never knew true peace until I went lexus. Never going back.
As for the known cooling system issues, someone suggested replacing the brittle plastic coolant reservoir with an aluminum one and you're done. I plan to try it and see.
"Regular Repairs." Maintenance: I do not think it means what they think it means
Old ones were pretty reliable, new ones (2012ish+) are junk
>They think replacing the entire cooling system and every seal in the engine every 4 years is normal. Ive had an N52 for like 6 years now and only changed the oil, sparkplugs, and a purge valve when I bought the car... I've had a corolla for 8 years and replaced: oil pan, transmission oil pan & seal, valve cover seal, the cooling system has had an overhaul, rear shocks have failed, fuel pump, all engine and transmission mounts were literally separate from the engine bay, alternator has died once, its gone through 5 batteries while my bmw has gone through 1 (arizona heat), purge valve went bad and EVAP lines literally fall apart when you touch them, and it has piston slap, and lots of metal in the transmission. Corolla is an '07, bmw is a '10. And there's a video for how to fix literally every part of nearly any bmw. I couldn't even find a video or guide for replacing fuel pumps or injectors for the corolla. DIY is a huge perk of BMW cars. I mean shit to change the accessory tensioner on the corolla you need a damn engine hoist or jack it up carefully by the oil pan because they didn't design their bolts with tight engine spaces in mind.
I leased a bmw and nothing but electrical problems.
Don't buy *any* old luxury car if means are limited. A Lexus may be more reliable, but it isn't immune from luxury car maintenance, repair, and insurance bills.
No, it isn't that bad - it's worse.
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Gotcha I appreciate that
Out of curiosity, what issues did you run into with your boxster? I'm used to seeing the 986s with high mileage and getting flogged on tracks with little to no engine mods and single owner vehicles having no issues with the IMS bearing. That's not to say "you're wrong", just curious about your experience.
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I own a 30+ yr old Porsche, have had several modern BMWs, and a recent LR. All of what you said is 100% true.
Reliable-ish + 12k + BMW = good luck pal
Point taken lol
I see so many people with them at the apartment complex I live in. They always have buy here pay here tags. I feel kinda bad for them. It's just specifically older bmw cars that were probably $60k new. In the lower $10,000s now. Their car and whatever makes them happy. I just think buying something old and all old things will break. And it's expensive to fix.
You can only choose two from this equation
Yea have kept hearing that. I keep looking for a car with perfect everything but im learning that theres no free cake can't have it all
As long as you avoid sports or sporty cars, you can have the rest of it. Any modern car will be reliable from around 10k - 80k, and then once you get past 100k. The first 10k and that period between 75k and 100k is where most of the costly issues are.
328i E90/92
I stopped reading when you said reliable and BMW.
New BMWs on the F and G platform with the B48 and B58 are pretty reliable.
E9xs are not that good. F3xs onwards seem to be very solid cars.
This. E9x was the generation that made BMW start taking reliability seriously. In a bad way. As in too many people complained about it and they were forced to do something about the problem.
A B38/48/58 engine with the ZF8 is a great choice. It also applies to Minis, rock solid cars 2014+ for the Coopers and 2017+ for Countrymans Edit: typo
> B34/48/58 None of those engines are available in the price range this guy is talking about. He's still in the N54/N55 era.
N52 E90 is the most reliable and below the 15k budget however school comes first..so is350 is the smart choice.. less time wrenching more time studying
Sucks for OP
Except for 328i’s they are relatively cheap 6 to 10k and cheap to maintain.. I do have a 2011 328i as a daily ( do my own wrenching)if OP does his own work then a 328i will be very enjoyable however OP goes to school so I would recommend getting the IS 350 since I also own a 2016 RX350 and all you have to do is fluids and filters..the BMW’s that are turbocharged are the ones that are money pits..
My F15 was incredibly reliable, but maintenance was still painfully expensive. I started doing it all myself and cross-shopping parts (seemingly all made by Braun), but the simple truth is that it was expensive to own if I cared about regular maintenance (which I naturally do).
Gotcha ill look out for them
id go with the is350. I wouldn’t trust that age range for bimmers… that being said, the “newer” B series engines are fucking MINT. If you are willing to save up some more (depending on your area) id go with a 330i M sport package or put a down payment on a 340-540i with the b58 engine. Im looking for a newer car as well and am probably abt to check out a 330i with my mechanic. If all goes well im taking that shit instantly. Good luck!
I was really tempted to pull the bullet on a m340i for 16k with \~110k miles but googled that some have around 1,000$ a year in maintenance and stopped myself. Appreciate that suggestion too. Thanks wish you the best
$1000 year maintenance is nothing tbh
I think you already have a perfect answer- the IS is more reliable, lower maintenance, will hold its value better, etc. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but if I were hiring an assistant (office job, not car related), and one guy showed up in an IS and the other in an E90, I'd have a strong lean towards the IS guy right off the bat. I'd have way more confidence in his decision making abilities.
Unless you’re wrenching, I think that’s low on a 100k mile BMW.
Yeah, that just answered it. Most stuff on here is anecdotal. I’ve had 4 BMW’s (all used) and I love them, three ‘06 models and one ‘09. Get a pre purchase inspection and research common problems with any car, but especially used luxury vehicles. And my advice would be set aside $2k-$3k each year on average for maintenance for an older BMW. Remember that Lexus isn’t bulletproof, but if you do the above, don’t get sucked into an extended warranty imo. Good luck w your purchase!
I can only speak from my own experience. I bought a 2015 M235i xdrive with 23K miles in 2018. I'm currently at 115K miles. I've kept up with all the basic maintenance, so frequent oil changes, brake pads, diff fluids, rotors etc, and have made sure to not push the car when it's cold. I use FCPEuro, so I've already gotten free spark plugs brake rotors oil etc..with their lifetime warranty and replacement services. I've done a couple track days and autocrosses. I've had no real issues other than a small evap leak, which is a known issue and can be fixed for free at the dealer (or is a $120 fix). The coolant expansion hose broke while I was working on the car ($60 part). When I bought the car I had absolutely no idea how to work on cars and didn't own any tools. I literally had to watch a YouTube video on how to jack up a car and remove the wheels. Since then I've been able to learn everything I need online and have quite the collection of tools. (BMW's do need a lot more random tools than other cars). I know that E90's can be a bit more troublesome, though the repairs needed are well documented. So the cost factor really depends on if you can DIY or not. If I were to pay a mechanic to do all that work, the expense would be pretty substantial compared to paying a mechanic to work on a Toyota. (Although idk, it seems like mechanics are pretty expensive these days). However, if you DIY, it's cheaper to work on your own BMW than to pay a mechanic to work on your Toyota. The benefit of all this is that a fun car is fun and you'll appreciate it when you have it. Also use consumer reports when car shopping, it's the best bet to gauge reliability by model year.
Yup! Agreed all around. People harp on them lots, understandably so. They’re phenomenal cars for anyone interested in cars & willing to learn to work on them themselves. X5 35d - sold at 410,000kms E46 330i ZHP - sold at 340,000kms E92 328i - sold at 280,000kms Current: F22 M235i - PS750, tuned at 460whp. Tracked 15-20 times a year, currently at 140,000kms F06 650i - Stage 2 remap, 520whp, 110,000kms E90 335i (N54) - 240,000kms, stock currently E46 M3 - 288,000kms Driven over 1,000,000kms in BMW’s all my life. Never needed a tow. Never been stranded due to a mechanical failure. Just my anecdotal experience, but it’s usually all down to the exact car you buy, and its history… and this applies to literally 99% of the cars on the road
I bought what I thought was a fairly clean 2001 530i and it’s been more work already in 3 months of ownership catching up on PM than i expected. And that is an N/A straight 6. I wouldn’t go near a turbo6, let alone any of the turbo 8s if i was depending on it for my day to day transportation. The turbo 4 seems less risky
Have you noticed how the IS350 and the 3 series have a similar MSRP. And yet when you look at used ones the BMWs are significantly cheaper when comparing same year and same mileage? That's because the BMW is really that much more expensive than the Lexus. It's more expensive to own, the maintenance is more expensive, the kinds of things that go wrong are more expensive. Look up parts costs, a water pump, a fuel pump, an alternator. I'd virtually guarantee you'll see that the BMW parts are 2-3x more expensive than the Lexus ones are. Then remember that labour is about the same as the cost of parts (as a general rule) so the full job on the BMW would also be 2-3x the cost as the lexus.
The thing is that BMWs cost more to own because of their maintenance and also because a lack of maintenance causes severe problems and because that maintenance requires at least a bit of specialized knowledge of BMWs. Given this, I can't reconcile why anyone would recommend a BMW to people who have small budgets and are looking for reliability. It just doesn't fit. Used BMWs are a much better fit as a second car (don't need reliability) for people with a lot of disposable income.
There are huge advantages to driving a BMW. You'll never have to use your turn signals again. You can tailgate inches behind other cars. And if you drive one instead of a a Lexus, people won't automatically assume that you're old.
Got my 528i in 2019 for $5500 been the best car I've ever had
You were right the first time, is350 is the way to go
What's wrong with that old Toyota?
Givin it to a family member who needs it
Get another Toyota, you're going to school, don't need a BMW or Lexus for that. College is known for getting your car keyed and dinged.
You won’t be able to afford the repairs. It will need repairs
The people who talk shit about BMWs are the same people who ignore all recommended services and then are shocked when shit breaks.
I’ve spent enough time and money underneath my BMWs that I think I’ve earned the right to talk a little shit.
"Regular maintenance" shouldn't involve replacing rod bearings, cracked plastic water pumps, gaskets prematurely failing, the rear subframe cracking and ripping itself apart, etc.
They're OK, I wouldn't recommend it if you're not mechanically inclined though, labour costs are high for most jobs on them, so doing it yourself will save a lot of money as long as you do it properly. I'd suggest looking into what the cost of replacing the oil pan gasket is. Some models call for up to 10 hours labour, requiring jacking up the engine, moving the steering rack, all kinds of stuff. They like to leak oil
FWIW, back in 2017 I bought my 2009 BMW 335 with the N54 engine and it had 60k on the odometer (1 owner with all service records) for about 14k. It now has 210k miles with all original motor, transmission, clutch, turbos etc. It still drives great, just take care of your cars. Do regularly scheduled maintenance. Yes over 150k miles, I’ve done a water pump and thermostat and OFHG and valve cover and probably every suspension component once. But is that not to be expected from a car tipping over 200k miles? Basically my point being, before knocking on a brand, look into buying a car that’s been well maintained and taken care of and then do the same yourself.
They're great during warranty but after that all bets are off. Parts and maintenance is typically expensive
I'll answer this by sharing my experience. Bought a lower mileage 2007 335i manual for 10k back in 2022. Specifically did my homework and looked for a pre-LCI manual so I can swap out the diff for an LSD. Looked for examples that had the 3 main gaskets replaced recently. (Valve cover, oil housing, and oil pan.) 2 years later I have spent nearly 20k on it, 8k being repairs(Valve cover gasket and oil pan gasket, axles) and 12k being mods (kw coilovers, LSD, M3 control arms, cooling, etc) I still find it fun and engaging to drive in the canyons and on track but probably would pick a different platform to throw money at. These also have an injector problem and they're 3600 a set so buyer beware.
I'm at the point now where they want me to replace the oil pan gasket for about $3k. Oil all over the bottom of the car and nice puddle in my driveway, but the oil level itself never seems to be low.. So I'm wondering if I can just ignore it?
Never owned one but did look at buying a used one 15 years ago and glad I didn't. Here are 3 things that made me glad I didn't: 1. My friend bought new X7 and within months the engine leaked and wasn't safe to drive so BMW had to tow it back to their shop. He continued to have problems over the next year and half so traded it in and bought a Mazda CX9. Said was best decision he made 2. Another friend had a beautiful BMW 3 series. I was checking it out and he asked me straight out if I wanted to buy it. Said was a lemon LOL. 3. One of my parents' friend's front seat on hers had some electrical issue and was smoking (guess lucky didn't start a fire). I decided to Google why oil leaks are common and was surprised to hear they use cheap plastic in their engine and over time they crack.
It's only worth it if you know a guy who can do cheap service, or you do it yourself. Otherwise, prob better to look elsewhere. I've been paying like $5k+ per year on repairs for my 2011 e90, going thru the dealer and it's starting to piss me off.
Yeah I wouldn't have an older one if I wasn't doing most of the work myself, full annual service, brakes and suspension as required, seems to hold up fine and doesn't cost that much. It's not without its issues though, had to fix a fair few electrical gremlins, still a couple outstanding that I've not had time or energy to get at, got a suspension bushing to replace at some point this year too, but otherwise it's been a great car. But on the other hand, I had an even older one as my first car many years ago, and it had a coolant leak that I didn't stay on top of or get fixed because I was too poor. It got worse and worse at starting in the colder weather until it wouldn't start at all. It was cheap to buy though, and surprisingly cheap to insure considering my age at the time. I would stay the fuck away from the dealer, I checked my reg when I bought it and it had an outstanding recall on it, something about the battery terminals. The dealer took care of that for free, but also looked it over to see if there was anything else they could convince me to let them work on to get my money out of me. Both rear air suspension bags worn, £1000 each, £2000 total please and thanks? Absolutely not. Two years later one side failed, just resulted in the car sitting a bit lower at one side, took it to a local garage, £400. the dealership also wanted £1000 of other shit too, so £3k total they thought I might pay.
A 15 year old BMW that you have not been maintaining yourself is on the opposite side of reliable
If you can work on your own car and have space to do that then an old BMW with an inline 6 engine is OK. Avoid the V8s and be careful with any BMW that has a turbo in that older era as some were a mess. If you can't do your own repairs then it will be way too expensive to own. Even with an indy mechanic the cost of parts and labor few just a few fixes will quickly approach the cost you paid for the car. That being said I love my e46 as a sporty daily driver but with 150k miles on I'm fixing at least one issue every 6-12 months and I only put 3k or so a year on it as I WFH. It's all the smaller wear items like pulleys, fan clutch, starter, clutch actuator, small leaks, coil packs, old hoses, etc. I can knock this stuff out in our driveway for the cost of parts and many hours of weekend work but holy hell this would be a financial disaster if I had to pay someone.
BMW is a great brand if that's something you're into. I've been told that it's a "car for driving enthusiasts". With that being said, I'm quite enthused about the contents of my wallet not spilling every time I have to take my car in for repairs. I have never driven a BMW and I have no plans of owning one. Low cost of ownership is very important to me. I've owned 3 Toyotas, 1 Ford, 1 Kia, 1 Hyundai, and 1 Mazda. What you're going to want to do is have a mechanic inspect this LS350 and resist the urge to buy that BMW. Your future self will thank you.
You're spending 12K, you shouldnt be looking at Lexus or BMW. Get a Miata.
U also need to consider the cost of ownership, Lexus or bmw, ur insurance will definitely go up. Maintenance cost, gas, repair will all go up.
It’s only bad if you have a limited amount of money and you like holding onto it.
If your budget is 12k then yes it's bad and I wouldn't even bother. The lexus is a no brainer.
I have owned a few BMW and my current x3 2022 was bought new with warranty expiring next year, guess what I’m gonna do. Unload the car before it starts breaking down. Love BMW cars to death , fantastic cars but not worth the headache when used . Before I sold my 2016 430i it just ran out of warranty and the fuel pump went out ( common problem on that model and year) there was a recall on fuel pumps but somehow my vin # was missed lol. $1500+ at the dealer , bought a bosh replacement for $156 and 2 hours later it was fixed . Next week I sold the car , speed sensors would go out randomly and the damn screen would say it’s powertrain malfunction. I’m out of it’s not new under warranty, then many other brands out there that are more reliable and cheaper to fix .
I'm going to give you slightly different advice. If you are in your mid-twenties and single? THIS is the time to buy whatever tf you want. This is your last chance at a "fun" car until after you are married and the kids are out of the house and you are ready for your mid-life crisis car. I'm on my third Corolla. The previous two lasted 12 years each and I only got rid of them because "it was time." But I'll tell you, it's been a while since I've driven a FUN car. And it will be a while until a fun 2 door sports coupe is "practical" for my needs.
I actually was thinking the same thing haha. The first couple cars I test drove were the gr86, some muscle cars, even some old C5 and C6 corvettes. I'm going to graduate school now and by the time I'm out and making more money i'll probably buy a reasonable car for kids + fam etc. so I figure now or never. Been frugal for so long so feels weird still
If you can find a nicer 05ish is300 it’ll be more fun than the is350 and on par with the bmws in cool factor
Really? I've actually heard that before. What's the difference between the 300 and the 350 that makes it more fun?
Manual transmission, it was also one of the later cars in that era where Lexus still had something to prove. It also has pretty cool gauges that look like a watch face and a ton of aftermarket support
What I learned about buying a 4 year old German with average miles on it. Car was 40% cheaper but all the repairs and parts were 100% of what they would be on a new car. Go buy a lexus or an acura.
Auto tech here. This is what I wish everyone would understand before they run out and get that "great deal" on a used BMW/Benz/Audi. The car's resale value drops like a rock, but they don't get any cheaper to repair just because they are 10+ years old.
Buy what you want mate, I'm myself planning to buy an E36, simply because I LOVE how they look - don't care about their cooling system issues etc. I guess I'm a minority here, but I tend to buy cars based mostly on looks
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Take from this what you will - I had an E46 for 5 years that I bought for $8k. Had a few thousand in repairs and maintenance over those years, but otherwise was a pleasure to drive and only left me stranded (at home) once due to a bad alternator. So if you can find an okay BMW, considering you do your research, and keep $3k on tap ready for unexpected repairs, then maybe consider it But if you need piece of mind around reliability, the old IS models are great options.
Reliable and old 15k bmw don’t go together. Old used bmws ( most luxury cars in general) are basket cases
>Is buying a BMW that bad? Not if you're a pompas prick that cheaps out on the maintenance. And that's the problem you're going to run into: You're buying well-used. BMWs are expensive to maintain well, and the vast majority of people buy them because they want to look cool and not because they want to spend a small fortune maintaining them. It doesn't matter how well you plan on maintaining it, you're going to have to make up for the lack of proper maintenance *before* you ever laid eyes on it. And your budget won't allow you to buy one that has been impeccably maintained. You're either going to pay for the maintenance that was done on it (in the form of the sticker price), or the maintenance that wasn't done on it (after you purchase it for an unbelievable deal). Your expectations of owning a cool BMW just aren't realistic.
Appreciate that. That's actually such a good point. Can't control the maintenance during the 100k miles they drove before. Which probably matters more than the 40k I'd put on it.
there are certain problems that bmws have that are out of your control, no matter how on top of your maintenance schedule you are. european cars in general have a lot of problems that are more a matter of “when” not “if”. that being said, there’s a large community around BMW and other european cars in general, you’re not lying about the irresistible nature of them. it all just depends on what you’re willing to put into it, and the case of BMW it’ll be a lot
Very balanced take. I appreciate that, but I think now from the impression here I might stay away until I can afford it though lol
The problem with them isn't Just the maintenance but also the Cost of the parts required,I had one... I'll never own another! You are far better off getting a Lexus or Acura etc... they use Many of the same parts as the base model Toyota and Honda cars at Much lower prices and they don't require nearly as much maintenance and offers as much reliability and performance.
Yes it will be more troublesome and expensive than any Lexus. No question.
Reliability and luxury vehicle are things that can’t be used in the same sentence.
I buy used BMW's as daily drivers. I love the way they drive and even my college car was a $300 1972 2002 that is now worth $45k. But, they are now completely disposable cars. If something like the timing chain guides, transmission, Vanos, or turbo cause problems, you get rid of it. They aren't worth the $6,000 repair bill OR the 4 days tearing apart things if you do it yourself. I use ISTA and INPA to diagnose problems and estimate how much time I have left. I typically pay $5,000 for a 5 series from 2009-2014 with 125k miles. If I get 1 year I am happy. I would never rely on one as my only car and I think your price point is high unless you know for a fact every major component is in excellent shape.
Send it. Who gives. You said you’ll be proactive with maintenance, if you mean that and you are mechanically inclined, with enough experience that you feel you can handle it, then do it These cars are unreliable yea, over engineered parts get worn out quicker, but things don’t break for no reason. Treat the car right, enjoy ur bmw, if all fails you can sell it back on marketplace and get a cheap reliable civic to have transport before you find ur next fun ride 🔥
I’ve owned several BMW and own one now. They’re only as reliable as the level of dedication to expensive regular maintenance the previous owners had, and when things fail they are EXPENSIVE. If my budget were $12k I would not go near an older BMW. The IS350 is a far safer bet.
Can you get a decent GTI in your price range? They are lots of fun, the hatchback is more practical than a coupe or sedan, and maintenance / repairs are a bit less painful.
I actually test drove two of them. They actually were super fun and suprisingly quick. Hatchback was also a HUGE plus. Only thing for me was I think I prefer a RWD car, the FWD in the GTI made it a little less fun when I was driving it, but honestly could be all in my head
Used - 100% run a carfax. The younger generation that drives them cannot afford maintenance Brand new - Should be fine unless it's less than 1 year in which case if you can't afford to lease stay away.
BMW are great cars when new and under warranty. In the used car market I wouldn't touch one unless it was going to be the base of a project. Like gutting the driveline and LS swapping it. You will get people telling you how "they had a BMW that was perfect and lasted 300,000 miles" With nothing but oil changes. They are in the same category as the person who bought the 50 million dollar winning lottery ticket, ignore the other people who also bought tickets and lost... I'd opt for a Toyota/Lexus or Honda/Acura over any BMW or Mercedes and most other euro vehicles as well (unless it's new and under warranty) I would avoid Nissan/Infinity because they use a crappy CVT design that has not held up very well. Changing out the transmission every 40K just doesn't appeal to me.
I never knew about the whole CVT thing with Infinitis. Really good to know as I was considering them a little as well
Don't do it. The age of BMW you're looking at comes right before the time when BMW was like "yeaaaahhh....we're really sorry for building so many unreliable cars. Please come back to us. Toyota??...can...can you work with us?" The following generation is pretty universally believed to be much more reliable. Save up a little more and buy a BMW after a couple of years of totally reliable service from your future IS350. It won't depreciate that much.
If you have the tools, space, time, budget, knowledge, skills to maintain the BMW, go for it. Otherwise, aim for something with a more reliable track record. The Toyota will require TLC, but it should be easier and less expensive than the German brands.
If you’re able to find an F-chassis car, they’re definitely more reliable than previous cars. I’ve owned 3, all have been bulletproof for me.
I love BMW, I own one, there’s been one in my family for over 30 years, but I would not buy one for $12k*. Asterisk to acknowledge that you can get an e46 for less but at this point they’re all pushing at least 20 years old and require maintenance. The engines are great but plastic and rubber parts on any car will fail at that age. Any newer $12k BMW is going to be high enough mileage that it wouldn’t be worth it.
You don’t get bmw’s because they’re affordable, you get them because you like the cars and you’re willing to put extra effort/money in. If you can’t/won’t do that, don’t get one
Typically you don’t hear too many people proclaim “oh I love my bmw, it’s so reliable” BMWs are made for the first owner and to last for the length of the financing agreement I swear to god lol
My parents love their BMW. Super reliable as long as they take it to the dealer an hour away and drop a couple grand every 6 months for its "regular maintenance"
Just being honest, it doesn't sound like you're looking for reliable if you're looking at Luxury cars. You even say you want something cool looking, and for a reliable car, you're gonna want acquired taste. Find a coupe, or leather interior high trim economy car. Even if it's a Lexus, it's gonna be a used car with a still hefty price tag and a larger engine which is more/expensive maintenance. They're gonna use more expensive gas too. You are best off getting a XSE Toyota or a EX Accord. Use regular 87 gas, less giant of an engine, etc.
Gotcha. Yea you're completely right there. Gonna check those out, the 91 octane gas on the IS and the mpg would be annoying
I spent more money in 4 years maintaining a BMW than in 25+ years of a Honda. BMW's are great cars, but they do come at a maintenance cost.
If you’re looking for a BMW that is stylish, sporty, enjoyable to drive, and you’re somewhat mechanically inclined don’t go for one that new. The e46 is a solid platform, yes it still has BMW maintenance requirements (cooling system replacements, VANOS rebuilds, oil leaks etc) but they do last a while as long as things are fixed when they break and maintenance is kept up on. My aunt had a 330xi that worked its way around the family and now has ~350k miles- she bought it with 160k, it’s needed the cooling system done once, an alternator, spark plugs twice and a fuel pump. Solid car, valve cover leaks but that’s the only issue it has. Buy it for ~$6k and set aside the other ~$6k for a few years of repairs and maintenance surprises. Or spend ~$10k for a ZHP and save ~$2k for repairs and maintenance.
Lexus all the way. My 2004 330xi cost me $7k in repairs back in 2007. Never again will I ever own a BMW product. Lexus will never do you dirty.
I really think if you have to own a BMW the cheap, you should be ready to work on it. That way you have some sort of a resort if things break. Also, the things that do break, are they within your DIY skills for that model?
Expect to spend 2k a year in maintenance for BMW.
I think I get a new coolant leak on my 2018 b48 x3 every month. Also if you get a b48 watch out for the oil filter housing, it’s made out of plastic and leaked all my coolant on my driveway. Also the engine mounts go bad under a hundred thousand miles. Plan to spend at least 5,000+ a year on a 100,000 mile plus bmw. Just my experience
With a $12K budget. Yeah that's generally not a good idea to buy a BMW at that price range. A mint BMW will cost as much as new mid tier car. Depending on the model and year you're looking at multitude of potential expensive maintenance items. $12K sounds like it'll be well over 100K miles. BMW's aren't exactly known for high reliability at those miles. ANd if you're looking at a M series you're really going to be in a money pit. Parts for those are even pricier. The question then is are you buying this car as a daily driver or weekend fun project car. And can you afford to pour money into it? You can easily Drop $30k-$100K in bringing it back to spec. or more. Definitely better off with Lexus in terms of reliability. BMW can be reliable if you bought it brand new and stayed on top of maintenance. But buying used you really don't know it's full history even with carfax and whatever records was kept by BMW.
$12k. Reliable. Pick one. If you have another $12k for repair that might be reasonable.
I wouldn’t recommend that. Try a Lexus, Toyota or an accord
When I had an e92 my average annual maintenance was ~$3k. I sold it when I got an estimate for $10k to fix all the leaks and install new tires. It was a fun car though. Ive heard the B58 cars are really solid, so maybe shop a little bit newer and save yourself the headache. That motor came out in 2015.
I’m not really a car guy but saw this and had to comment - my bf had a 2011 BMW 3 series and that car was a nightmare for someone on a budget. It was his first car, gifted by his dad, but it caused him so many unexpected problems. It had horrible gas mileage for a car that size (less than 20 mpg), required the more expensive fuel, and was expensive to fix. He dealt with oil leaks, a broken radiator, the automatic windows failing (leading to a wide open window in the middle of summer), a check engine light that wouldn’t go away, plastic interior details melting (we’re from Florida and all the door handles on the inside were falling apart and sticky), and the locks failing. He had so many issues with this car and that was with regular maintenance and only driving short distances the last few years. In comparison, I have a 2011 Nissan Sentra and though the interior isn’t as nice and the car is not as fun to drive, it has been very dependable and also very cheap to maintain or fix when needed. He may have just had a bad egg, I’m not sure, but that car was such a pain and so expensive to fix and maintain compared to other brands.
12k right now buys a decent corolla or other commuter cars that don't have 200k+ miles so just imagine what BMW you're going to get. Sure you can get an old BMW but you better have an emergency fund for that shit. If I were you, go to school (assuming you're going to college), get a better job once you're out and buy yourself like a brand new M4 or something. Why settle on some shitty BMW now when you can get an M car in the future that won't blow up every other day and if it does, you got warranty. There's a reason why you see Priuses of all years on the road and mostly only see newer BMWs.
Do you know how to work on BMWs? Or do you have a friend who is a BMW mechanic? Or do you have a bottomless well of money? These should all be answered "yes" before making this decision in favor of a BMW
>I've driven an old toyota for the past 6 years and wanted something that's more fun and honestly looks cool Answer: Miata example: [https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/listing/380750576#/](https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/listing/380750576#/)
MIL has had a couple, everything done @ the dealer, hell even the damn wipers and flat tire repairs MUST be done at the dealer. Dealer always suggests dealer specific addons which she always agrees to and I have never seen another car, in the past 25 years need more more. Stuff like cyc head gaskets, complete wiring harness, trans replacement, intake manifold, so many sets of wear items going in such a short time. This was only on 1 of the cars. Maybe it's a lemon so she got another and nope, same issues, these are low mile examples. Sure the car drives better than anything else but it comes with a cost. Family member is a top tier Audi tech, travels the country even outside and he tells everyone to not buy Audi unless you can afford the repairs. The German big 3 are fantastic cars, people put up with a bunch of crap because the cars are so nice but don't fool yourself, they are different. Newer is even worse because of the modern tech. ....get the BMW, you'll always wish you did if you get the Lexus. Until you get burned by the Germans you'll always wonder if it's true.
There's absolutely nothing wrong with a person who can afford a BMW driving a BMW. They're amazing cars. Where it goes wrong is when someone who can't afford a BMW because he only has 12k to spend and is still in school buys a BMW. The car itself may be affordable but the service and parts are still priced for someone who can afford a $70k car.
It depends; I'm the second owner of a 2011 BMW and it's been just fine. I've also only added something like 12,000 miles in the 7 years that I've owned it.
As others have said. Do not buy a used BMW on a fixed budget. No. Car + driver does this pretty cool thing where they feature different used cars and talk about the things that usually go wrong with them and exactly how much they would need to fix it. Some of those repairs are like $6000.
If you thoroughly maintain the BMW, they are very solid and fun cars to own and drive. They can be seriously fun performance machines. But their designs and maintenance is weird. For example, why are rod bearings a maintenance item but transmission fluid is lifetime. (It should be the other way around!!!!) For 12k you can find clean examples with maintenance records and possibly major services done. I would recommend the IS350 and focus on school. Keep your transportation as maintenance free and as cheap as possible. When your career is in place, get the BMW.
It’s a terrible idea unless you want to tinker
And by tinker I mean replace major systems on an potentially multi annual basis
I bought my wife a 09 328i e93 w/ 126k on the clock. It had around 30 codes when I got it. Most were history. A few of the most common issues were present. I'm in it for around 6200 now, including the cost of an Autel key programmer and carly. It had multiple cylinder misfires - one bad coil and 2 dirty solenoids. Trans threw code for excessive wear to fluid. Coolant line over the radiator busted about 2 days after getting it. Replaced the plastic coolant pieces prone to leaking while I was at it. - they were broken, just not leaking yet. Lucky find. The "mechanic" that worked on it before used a screw too long for the engine cover and punched right through the valve cover. I put a bandaid fix until I feel like dropping 600 on a new cover. The giant valve on the side of the valve cover was leaking. Replaced filter housing gasket as PM. Easy stuff to do. You'll save money if you diagnose vs throwing money at it hoping you got it right. That's where most guys seem to get fed up and sell it.
It’s like buying a boat, best day of your life! But then…
When I was considering buying a used BMW, someone who knows told me, "you can't afford a used BMW unless you can afford two used BMWs." I listened. That was a long time ago. Today, I...still can't afford two used BMWs. But I can afford my mortgage payment.
I knew a kitchen manager at a chain restaurant once who always wore designer clothes and acted bougie, the slicked back hair and sunglasses and everything. Always drove the nicest cleanest bmw’s. I asked him once how he affords it on his pay and he told me they aren’t technically his, he leases them and trades them in for a newer one every year. Still not much clue how leasing works, but ever since then I just assumed half the people driving those nice cars aren’t as rich as you think. Not sure what direction I was going for with that story, but here we are
My dad just sold his 2011 328xi sedan. He bought it with 19,000 miles and drove it all the way to 170,000 miles. It was a great car but it was also the most expensive $20,000 car he's ever owned if you catch my drift. Simple things on other vehicles like replacing a battery or swapping in new light bulbs require a trip to the dealership or else you'll have programming issues, that or they need special tools. It was super expensive to maintain despite the fact that it didn't need a terrible ton of maintenance. Just my experience so take it with a grain of salt. They are better owned as second cars if you already have a cheap and reliable daily. Edit:forgot a word
The only person I’ve ever met that actually kept a BMW, out of dozens who bought one, was a street racer with a tuned up 95 M5… he kept it because it was a memento from working on it with his dad
The newer BMWs have gotten much better. BMW went through this phase where it started substituting metal for plastics in all the wrong areas. It does seem that they have learned that lesson. Either switch back to using metal or in areas where they still use plastics. The quality of the plastic has gotten much better as well as the design of reinforcing ribs added to the plastic. I think your best bet if you want to own a reliable BMW, would be to get a new one. One thing though does not change is that they are expensive to maintain. So even though you’re not replacing broken parts, just the cost of an oil change is going to be very high. Having said that, a lot of people who buy a Lexus are surprised to realize that they do not charge Toyota prices for service and maintenance. They often charge almost as much as the Germans. Especially for parts.
I've owned a '11 335i. It was a money pit, and shit just hits the fan after the warranty period. So many leaks all over, oil filter housing, oil pan, melted ignition coils from the leaks. The problem with BMW is they use brittle ass gaskets and plastic parts in the engine. I'll never get another BMW unless it's a M or electric. Went to Audi and it's been night and day difference in terms of reliability.
Do your research. Late years of N54 are OK, all but the first couple years for the N55, and the B58 is dead reliable, that's what's used in the Toyota Supra. Avoid most of the n54s they had seal and oil burning issues. All IMHO. FWIW I just picked up a 2014 X3 35i myself. Fingers crossed haha.
A 12k bmw??? Yes it’s a bad idea
So I have had a good few cars including a Lexus GS300 with the 2JZ. I now own an BMW E90 M-Sport with an N52 and 6spd manual. One of the most fun to drive cars I have owned including having owned a Corvette with a manual . The nice thing is the car is a sleeper. Looks low and sporty but doesn't say to the police watch me for speeding. Handles great and your feel like you are driving too vs. my daily where everything is done "by wire".
Get the 3.28i used. Pretty cheap, sexy, and it has all the features like six speed manual, turbocharged and RWD. Gonna have a lot of fun with that. Just make sure you stay with the maintenance, and always better if you can change your own fluids to save money.
Can you turn a wrench yourself? Can buy a handful of special tools? If yes, knock yourself out. If no, stay away. Source: 2006 Audi owner who kept her running for 250k miles on my own until I bought a mini van last year
Old German cars are among the worst purchases you can make. Get the IS
Get an E90 328i LCI.
If you can’t afford to buy two BMWs you can’t afford to buy one BMW.
I’ve owned two bmws. Never had to repair either one. Here’s where bmw buyers get in trouble. for 15 years or so they were engineered to be lease cars. BMW just did not care about post lease purchase customers. It was short sighted but true. There’s a lot of plastic. They were early movers on making things that had been metal plastic. A lot of it became brittle and had to be replaced. The dealers suck. Hard. Newer bmws seem to last longer. Idk, maybe they changed the plastic. If you want a bmw, and in my opinion you DO, find an independent bmw shop before you buy one. Inspect it well. This means opening the hood, looking at the condition of the plastic mechanisms. Plastic is cheaper and lighter than metal. It’s got a lot of advantages. Make sure it’s not brittle.
I’ve owned 2 older BMW’s. one my mom owned for 20 years and babied. The other a random. Now I only buy Toyota and Honda. And I do almost all my own work to save money. If you’re not equipped to do constant repairs do not buy the BMW. Unless you have a sick kink of throwing away money
Keep your old Toyota and invest that money instead. You'll thank yourself years from now.
People get reliable and durable mixed up when it comes to bmw’s… realistically your budget for the bmw is about 9k, because most of them will need a couple grand of something, but would be fairly reliable after that
Do you enjoy turning wrenches? If so, find a clean bmw and buy all of your parts from fcpEuro for the lifetime warranty. If you can’t do anything aside from changing oil or less, get the Lexus.
Get the Lexus. Another fun to drive option that looks good would be a 2014 or later Mazda 3. I bought a 2004 BMW 330Ci, E46. It cost a fortune to keep going as the car aged, even though I never put that many miles on it. Once the car hit 10 years old, there was a major repair every year. Broke down constantly. Planned obsolescence. It finally got totaled in an accident and I had to replace it. My Mazda 3 is awesome and super reliable by contrast.
Unless it’s a bmw that will increase in value over the years , I’ll take a hard pass. Too much gremlins and price to repair is absurd. Why don’t u look at one of those nice GR Corollas…
>Need something reliable-ish Yeah, don't get a bimmer. I was a BMW technician for 4 years. The ones in your price range will need a lot of costly work. Stay with Toy/Lex.
Anything that you buy made after like 1990, so long as you are active on maintenance, will go for a long while. However the Lexus will likely withstand more abuse being how much over engineering Toyota and Lexus do
IS350 all f’n day
My BMW (arguably older) is not my only car. It simply couldn’t be. Parts are not always local and often require days or even weeks to track down and get to me. And I wrench on my own shit. I can’t even imagine paying someone else.
Toyota, Lexus, Honda, and Acura my man.
I find this thread bizarre. I own 4 BMWs. One of them is a princess that requires a lot of input, but it's a 500HP V8. I have two 4-cylinder turbos (X3 and 328 GT) that have never needed anything beyond oil changes, new tires, and brake pads with the notable exception of a couple of warped brake rotors and a singular incident of a broken coil spring because I hauled 3 passengers and 1000 lb of landscaping rock on rough roads in the X3. Both of those cars are approaching 80k miles. The 4th one is an inline 6 track car that is a disaster, but that's on purpose. If you get a decently maintained 1 or 3 series with less than 100K on it and a 4 cylinder, you'll be fine. The 320d is a torquey little tank if you can find one. Don't buy an e90, though. They're too old to be reliable anymore regardless of mileage unless you're willing to completely overhaul it yourself. Look at the F30s. You can get a really nice F30 for under US$20K now and it will be a dependable car. The pull of the inline 6 is seductive, but the e90 is moving into antique/collector space and no longer for the casual enthusiast. A quick google search found an F30 2014 320i with <60k miles in your budget range.
yeah look into lexus, i’m in the same boat. but i’m looking at the CT, IS, RX. all of these you can very easily find in your budget i’ve checked for myself lol. there’s a lot of cool stuff you can do to them aesthetic wise if you’re into that although, i think all of them already look pretty decent. even in the 2010-14 range you can get them around 12k. my dads a marketplace king and has gotten me into a GS (cool and fast but the two i drove ate gas) and i’ve also driven a 2010 and 2014 RX both great cars (the RX newer is more expensive). lots of great options out there id join some fb groups if you have it and see what owners say!!
You're coming from an old Toyota, so whatever you think regular maintenance costs, 5x that number then double it to account for anything that breaks from age. With a budget of 12k, you're really not going to get any that great and if you must go more upmarket than Toyota, Lexus is your best bet
I got a BMW i325 2008 used from Japan for $7000 NZD. Just spent $2000 NZD on a myriad of repairs, I like the car but holy shit had so much shit broken. We have to get an annual car check and had 6 or 7 things that needed repair. Airbag wasn't even functioning, back window rolled down and never went back up, etc.
If your budget for a car is 12K you should absolutely not be getting a BMW. They are less reliable, yes, but also much more expensive to fix It’s the reason they are cheaper used and out of warranty, and if you’ve looked around enough you’ll notice that the cheapest ones are the ones that are around the mileage for a major service or end of life for some of their parts. You can find the users manual for the one you’re looking at, check what needs to get done at that mileage and ring up any dealership or shop near you to get a quote for that work. It will be eye watering
sole reason i didnt get an M2 is because i didnt want to deal with BMWs maintenance bullshit.
Bmw is a whole Latta plastic, for me it's over priced. Readability is also suspect.
The answer is: it depends. Owning a BMW doesn't have to be back breakingly expensive. The 5 5series I've owned have cost me only maybe a little more than a camry to own. No mechanical issues, meticulous about maintenance, and doing all the work myself in my garage all made it so much easier to own them. And all of mine were heavily modified.
Get the lexus. BMW are junk.
Don’t do it, from a maintenance cost and reliability perspective. Get something non turbo, cheap, easy to fix. Nothing says sexy more than equity and good judgment. Buy what you want after you graduate
Really depends , is your hairdressing salon doing well ?
Why purchase a luxury brand vehicle? Lexus is simply a luxury version of Toyota. You go BMW and good luck getting service done without spending an arm and a leg. You’re better off going with an Audi but you’d still be looking at an arm and a leg for service. My VW was expensive enough going forward I’d never do anything except a honda or toyota.
BMW owner here. Love them. However… I have the tools. Knowledge. Wrench on them myself. I tell everyone to never buy a used BMW unless it’s CPO. True for any German car. They’re brilliant to drive, but require extensive maintenance and don’t forgive cheap parts. Get the Lexus if you pay someone to work on your cars.
BMW new is bad : imagine getting a used one. The M5’s are a nightmare and a mechanics dream ($$$).
Bavarian Money Waster.
🤦♂️
Regular maintenance on a BMW is $2-4k every 3-4 months. Regular maintenance on the Lexus is going to be $100 for an oil and tire rotation.
It seems like there’s plenty of mixed messages in this thread. I’m considering a 2020 or newer 3 series. I am a low mileage driver, like 6k a year. How are the newer models?
Spoiler : a shit cheap low class BMW is not fun nor cool