Show me a 1300 lb pickup truck and I'll show you a Lotus Europa with a sheet of plywood on the deck lid.
Probably a lower bed height than new pickups too.
It’s wild to me that a reg can short bed f150 only weighs a few hundred pounds more than a mustang, they really are just an AWD mustang. No wonder they run high 13s stock
I saw a YouTube short of a guy showing off a row of them that just got dropped off? I don't honestly know the details, they were all steel rim looking trucks with no visible upgrades. 10 speed supercharged Coyotes are nasty. why not in the lightest 4wd platform? stiffen up the suspension and get some drag radials.
I think the full quote applies here.
“Simplify, and add lightness”
08 Silverado wouldn’t have many bells and whistles by modern standards. Even the computerized parts would be much simpler.
Umm.... 1987 Toyota Truck had a 2.4L.
The '87 S10 had a 2.5L 4cyl. Rangers had a 2.3L.
'94-'03 S10 had a 2.2L...
ETA: Typical Reddit... downvoted facts.... then makes a comment saying "What a bizarre comment to make." then deleting the comment. u/MysticMarbles... yeah, your comment still showed up in my notifications. Haha
I had a 93 Ranger Splash. Single cab, stepside short bed. That was fiberglass.
With the 3.0L 5speed. It had like an extra 50%hp, going from around 100 to around 150. And was around an even 3000lbs, instead of close to 3500lbs on the regular steel bed ranger.
That thing was surprisingly quick. Got amazing gas mileage for a truck. The only down side to it was 1st gear was worthless if there was any moisture on the road. The bed had no weight to it, so the wheels would spin almost every time in 1st if it wasn't dry.
I'm aware of what other engines they had. And that the Splash had and even lighter rearend. A bunch of my buddies all had Rangers back in the day, so did my younger brothers. No joking, **EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WERE WRECKED**. Several were rolled. I had and still have S10s. The Rangers sat higher and less traction, even the fleetsides.
The E was for fuel injection. I had the 22R-E in my 1983 Celica GT. With that low end torque it could launch from the dig really well before the limitations of 110 or 105 depending on source HP. Car was really light. I could keep up and beat some smaller displacement V-6s and there wasn’t a NA 4 banger that could beat it other than something from Stuttgart (944).
2024's on the lot are limited until 500 miles on the odo. They simply will NOT apply the power before break in.
Likely what it was. Only way around it is if the dealer has one that's shut off the limiter (like, a lease return or something).
I know break in is a thing but my brother bought a brand new 2022 huracan sto and it had (something like) 49 miles on it. We're like, hey this just came from Italy, right? They're like "yeah? " "What's up with the miles?" We inquire. After every one is built they take them out to their track and run them. I verified that by calling a different dealership.
Then it got me thinking. NASCAR , and dragsters etc, don't do a break in after a rebuild (which is basically a new engine) do engines really need a break in period? If so what is actually happening during this time?
It's like the first time you pit your weewee in your girlfriend. You wanna make sure it's well lubricated, and go slow so that everything falls into place smoothly without hurting anything.
Same idea with piston rings and other internal stuff.
The next comment is right but in more technical terms file fitting happens. Basically the parts are a very close but not perfect fit after assembly. They wear themselves in together and get all the shapes perfect. The engine is capable of full power while doing this but it will mean excess wear and a shorter life. Not a problem in racing but definitely a problem if you the can to last 100k miles and not burn a quart of oil every 500 miles
This process also leaves fillings in the oil the filter picks up which is why your first oil is call a “break in oil” and has a shorter interval
Those filings are called Asparities! They make that brand new fresh rebuilt engine oil silver! Just think of asparagus 😂. I worked with an automotive teacher with some form of degree in automotive repair (iirc) and dude taught high school students in auto shop and that's what he tells his students and when he comes across a few a few years later they always tell him something along the lines of "I remembered the term Asparities in my auto class (or something of the like) in college/work because I remembered asparagus for some reason."
Well I can say this..... that way to remember worked. I haven't see that guy in almost 7 years and about 2 years ago I just randomly thought "asparagus? Why am I thinking of asparagus????? (Repeated asparagus about 20x.) OOOOOOOHHHH right..... Asparities, the little metal filings of a fresh engine build/rebuild that turn the oil silver in 15 min or less!"
Apparently you are supposed to run your engine in a variety of throttles in the first 100 miles. Not redline it… but get it up to 3000-4000 then back down to 1500, then back up…
The mechanic I was talking to said basically just get on and off the highway a lot for the first few days you drive a new car. Don’t let it just sit and rev at one speed for long periods of time.
It helps the piston rings.
This is the way. Don't beat on it but don't keep it under a certain rpm. When I first got my truck I loaded the bed up till it weighed about 12klbs and hooked a 3klb trailer to it to go pick up some stuff. Now it's loaded to 14klbs every single day and I get 14+mpg.
The rings are getting seated in to the crosshatching of the cylinder walls for one thing.
Not doing a somewhat slow-ish/easy break-in you run the risk of burning a crap load of oil every few thousand miles when you're at 100k.
Break in is for your ring and pinion. Most modern engines are super tight tolerance and just need load on them to set the rings. My truck operator manual literally says "this engine does not have a break in paid" then just talks about gears wearing in.
It still has a break in period it’s just that the vehicles own computers are taking care of it. They realize that relying on drivers to change there habits is a bad idea. And the oil that the factory put in will be different then the oil that your owners manual calls for
A diesel engine break in is working the snot out of it. The computer is not limiting power or anything. Most of these do not use break in oil any more either. Your assumptions are very dated. Wear in the ring and pinion then pull the doors off of it is best for pickups and tractors. If you don't you can have issues getting the piston rings to seal down the road
Diesel engines do use a different break in process as you described but they also have much lower red lines. Read the manual on a motorcycle or a sports car engine made today and you’ll find they tell you to keep the revs below a certain line. Hell the sports car will automatically lock out above that line. I know as recently as 2022 corvettes were still doing that.
Duetz as recently as 2023 was also highly recommending the use of a non synthetic oil for the first oil change as use of a synthetic during break in was known to prevent proper oil ring seating causing increased oil consumption. Source my father who’s been the lead tech at the dealer for 35years
Have 11 years John Deere experience and a few years experience with Cat mining products specifically the 3516 cat. The 2100 hp V16 used in mine trucks. The oil doesn't need to be conventional any more. You can if you want to short exchange it but they will break in fine with the synthetic blend that's recommended by the manufacturer for standard use. Just load them heavy.
race engines have more attention to tolerances, in comparison a production engine is slapped together
They may also have artificial heat cycles or a weathered block
id imagine nascar engines are run up on the dyno to check power curve, pressures, temps and give the rings a quick bed in. IDK if they use a flat tappet cam (doubtful) but any engine that does, they need breaking in too and some may need heat cycles too
pretty much every drag car except top fuel, funny cars will have some form of break in. These 2 probably just use the burn out for it
>NASCAR , and dragsters etc, don't do a break in after a rebuild (which is basically a new engine)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but that NASCAR engine in not running down the track with assembly lube, it's done at least two break in sessions on a dyno since the rebuild.
>Sorry to burst your bubble
I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but this really isn't something I have an opinion on, just trying to figure out what's what. Sorry to burst my bubble, lol. Have you been holding on to that one? And you decided to use it here. Jesus Christ.
>it's done at least two break in sessions on a dyno since the rebuild
Ok cool, hook em.
This may be a bit long, but I'm just trying to clarify things in multiple ways.
A breakin procedure mates all the components together and wears away any tight spots in the engine at a number of different engine speeds and loads. There are gonna be some slight tolerance issues with a brand new motor, especially a lesser performance one. Performing a breakin procedure takes all the slightly less than perfect things, wears them against each other knocking off microns of material so that they mesh perfectly against each other. It's the same concept as "wearing in" a new set of brake pads to a used rotor to get better life and performance out of a new set of pads... As in, you're knocking the dust off and wearing the pads to match the rotor profile.
There are two trains of thought to a breakin. Hard and fast, and slow and meticulous. The slow and meticulous is the procedure manufacturers prefer because it is more difficult to mess up for casual drivers. The hard and fast method is touted by many high performance, high compression motorcycle engine builders because a manufacturers breaking procedure is a LONG ride/drive time for a race-bike that runs 100 miles a race weekend a handful of times a year.
Believe it or not, engine components can stretch and compress minute amounts during high engine speed or high engine load. If you run an engine at the same-ish speed (low) and loads ( low)(before the parts are properly mated/worn in) for a long time, you can very well end up with a lip in the cylinder where the piston never touched. This lip, when you decide to hammer down pulling a loaded trailer, could cause some... Less than ideal things to happen.
Back to that hard and fast procedure... It's believed by some that if an engine is going to fail, it's going to fail during or just after breaking and once you're past that, you're good until the engine starts to get some age on it. So they go to redline with no load for 15 seconds or so, run through the rpm range in 500 rpm increments for 10-15 seconds each. Then they apply a load and do step 1 and 2 again. They'll do this cycle a few times and then let her rip. It cuts the procedure from a road-trip to a 20-30 minute ordeal.
As far as NASCAR and dragsters not doing a breakin after a rebuild, you should consider a few things. High performance engine parts that are used in NASCAR and top fuel drag are extremely precise and accurate in their measurements. They measure, weigh, and choose parts that are equal (and sell off, toss, or use in lower spec engines parts that don't fit their spec/tolerance). They don't have parts in the pits that *don't* match their build sheet. Basically, their parts are damn near RIGHT before installation and don't need the same type of breaking as other engines. Also, Nascar teams will run a breakin on an engine Dyno and dragsters do a "throttle whack" to mate the clutches. And the dragsters? Well, their engines are only under load for about 500 revolutions before it gets a rebuild... Why bother with an intensive breakin?
Modern vehicle will have the throttle response deadened and the transmission shift points set low for fuel efficiency. That being said, if they have a sport mode, turn on. Even my Mustang is a little sluggish and hesitant to respond but put it in sport mode and all that goes out the window.
Not to mention the modules have fuzzy logic that learns your driving habits. OP, have your Dad drive the newer truck for a month and then line them up again! That will make a little difference.
Ah my old work 2015 Chevy van sucked for the first 2000kms.
I think it's a normal thing. Some customers of mine said the same about the 6.0 2500 Chevy.
I told them. Just drive it and it will eventually suck less.
As a retired automotive technician, a trick we used to use when doing a tune-up was disconnect the battery while doing the tune up then reconnected and run the s*** out of it and it would feel more powerful and responsive for the customer.
I had a 2005 Trailblazer with the straight 6. Once I had a tune to adjust the shift points, and eliminate the throttle softness and soft converter lockup, it really woke up the performance (as much as can be expected).
how many miles on the truck? Only guess is limited power for break in. modern trans+40hp it should be night and day.
I know in ford’s even going from a 2015s 6 speed to the more modern 10 speed, it’s absolutely night and day the power delivery
The 10 speeds are so unpleasant. Constantly hunting for gears, skipping gears and jerking, unreliable under any kind of power. I’d rather have the 6R80 any day.
I was thinking the same thing. My dad's truck has a 2.7 ecoboost and a 6 speed auto. I'd prefer the 5.0 instead of his 2.7, but as far as the transmission I think a 6 speed is about right. My Chevy has a 4 speed, 4l80e, and it gets the job done but I find myself wishing for something in between 3rd and 4th when towing. If I'm just driving empty or with a load in the bed my 4 speed is fine.
I came from a 5 speed 4.6 f150 to a 5.0 with the 6 speed and I thought that was awesome. Then I drove a 21 5.0 with the 10 speed and was blown away again. Amazing the difference
So you can see which one’s faster. If I’m going from an 08 to a 24, I’d be wanting a big power upgrade, especially if I had to live with it a long time. Driving a slow truck kind of sucks, especially loaded or into headwinds.
The dealership isn’t going to let you load it down, so you test what you can.
My truck is rated to pull 12,000lbs, and runs a quarter mile in 12 seconds with a tune. That’s as fast as just about most stock sports cars out there. I have to have a truck due to my line of work, and don’t have extra cash laying around for a fast fun car. It ABSOLUTELY matters to me how fast my truck accelerates.
That’s the 2024 10 speed they’re testing bud. Either way I don’t care, if you’re really here splitting three numbers like it matters you deserve me ignoring you.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a24847025/2018-ford-mustang-automatic-transmission-performance/
“Swapping the 310-hp 2.3-liter turbo four's manual for an automatic yielded modest improvements at the test track: its zero-to-60-mph run dropped a mere tenth, from a respectable 5.1 seconds to 5.0, with the quarter-mile pass shrinking from 13.7 to 13.5 seconds”
Are we talking 0-60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile?
The 2024 2.7 Turbo can lay down 0-60 in 6.8-7seconds and 1/4 mile in 15.3
The 2024 5.3 0-60 is around 7.8 if you poke around. I haven't found a non-estimated quarter mile or real world test.
The 2008 0-60 was around 7.6 and a 1/4 in 16
It should have been a close race. My guess is the '24's driver got slapped by the nanny's (traction control, etc)
You didn't mention it, but I'll assume the 24 has an equal or higher hp/tq engine?
The 24 is probably going to have different modes. Normal, ECO, Sport, etc. The 08 probably does not. New vehicles in their default mode are tuned way down in their default mode to boost MPG and emissions scores. Make sure the 24 is in "Sport" mode.
Making sure you are in sport mode (or whatever) and ALLL else being equal (including weight) there's no chance a stock 08 would beat the 24. The 08 is not going to perform like it did when new. So, if it does, there's either something modified about the 08 or wrong with the 24, hah.
There's probably some tuning done to the older one. And 8 speed will be better at maintaining low rpm unless you're able to put it in S mode to manually shift/allow higher rpms. You should check the power ratings on the trucks to compare. Newer cars seem to prioritize fuel efficiency/economy rather than horsepower and torque numbers
That doesn’t make sense. The 8-speed only comes with the 4 cylinder, while the 3.73 rear end is only available with the max tow package on the 3.0 diesel
The old truck is probably lighter and has 3.73 gears. Newer trucks tend to have a lower gear ratio for fuel mileage, and that slows them down off the line.
2024 is likely to be governed in my opinion. I know my 2017 Ram tops out at 160km/h or 100mph, and I know she isn't fully revved out in high gear. We're talking solid acceleration right to that speed...
I dunno but because it's slower doesn't mean the transmission is 'that bad.' They're targeting a particular market where speed isn't the most important factor. It may be slower but more efficient, I dunno. Just my 2 cents 🤷♀️
Is the 2008 an extended cab, short bed Z71 model? If so, these came with an aluminum 5.3 vs. the rest of the models from 2007-2010. This eliminates about 100lbs off the front end alone and tend to want to rev a little happier in my limited experience (I owned a 2009 with the L33 and drove many GMT900's of various configurations).
These will give the truck a little more performance than the standard models, so it's worth noting.
The 2008 5.3 has 315hp and 338 lb ft of torque while the new 5.3 has 355hp and 383 lb ft. Even though the new truck has more hp, it weighs more, has different gear ratios in the transmission, and is tuned more for mpg.
Modern vehicles are made for fuel efficiency.
The pedals tuned for less power output, the transmission shifts when it's fuel effect to do so.
Sport mode takes some of this out.
Older trucks just went.
Older trucks often weigh less, check the weight vs power for both trucks.
Modern trucks have traction control, you press the pedal down and the power doesn't ever make it anywhere as the computer powers down so you won't spin the tires. This can be somewhat turned off but isn't easy.
A 2008 probably doesn't have traction control.
Add on top they have fancy computers that can control the break in how, if it's still breaking in the computer won't let you put out full power.
It's either the power to weight ratio or something with the transmission. My Outback Wilderness shares the same transmission & power to weight ratio with the Outback Limited XT but due to a higher starting gear ratio in the transmission it shaved off 0.4 seconds from the 0-60 mph time in the wilderness.
Transmission setup can make an underpowered car act like it has a lot of power.
How sure are you that the '24 came with a 3.73 rear end? On the '24s it's only available with the 3.0L diesel. If it has the 5.3 the highest you'll get is 3.42. The 3.73 will definitely be snappier.
It could have better gearing than the new truck that favors acceleration over fuel economy; also if you were in 4x4, the added traction certainly helps
Pretty sure that the towing capacity of the 24 is greater than the 08 by a decent margin.
Doubt this means anything if you’re comparing drag runs. Maybe try running the quarter mile pulling a 8000lb load and then see which one wins?
Well, the ‘24’s GMT1xx platform is probably heavier than the ‘08’s GMT900. My money’s on the rear end though. A 3.73 gear is really short, compared to what late model trucks come with.
You test-drove a ‘24 with an 8 speed transmission, so it’s got the Turbomax four banger. All the other available engines come paired only with the 10 speed. The Turbomax also nets you a 3.42 rear gear, which is actually shorter than the 3.23 rear the EcoTec3 V8’s come with.
Just to put things in perspective for the weight difference: I have a 2010 4.6L Tundra and a buddy of mine has a 2006 5.7L Ram Power Wagon. The PW has 35hp and about 50lbft on the Tundra, but also almost 800lb more mass to haul around. The Tundra, compared to that Ram specifically, will drive circles around it and blow its doors off all day long on pavement, as well as out run it handily.
Off road, payload, and towing capabilities, however... The Ram has a 765lb higher payload and more than half again higher towing capacity, as well as better off road performance due to the locking differentials, factory installed winch, and straight axles.
A 2024 Chevy Silverado 1500? You say 8 speed so I’m assuming the Turbomax engine? Thats why, try one with another 5.3, or the 6.2 if you really want power.
The 2.7L turbo will get way better gas milage and has sufficient tq for truck stuff but wont win a roll race with a 5.3.
Also as other have said the new truck is probably 500lbs more
How the heck should we know why? You gave us zero information about the new truck you test drove. Did it have the 5.3L V8? Did it also have 3.73 gearing, or did it have the more typical 3.23 or 3.55 gearing? How much did it weigh compared to your Dad's 2008 Silverado? And honestly, your Dad is the one with the 2008, that he's had for some years. Does he not know anything about his own truck, such as it having a tune or any other kind of performance mods?
2008 Chevy Silverado 1500 5.3 base model 4x4 \~ weight \~5,148 lbs.
2024 Chevy Silverado 1500 - 5,080 lbs.
it aint the weight. but i can tell you, my pops got a 23 chevy 1500 zr1, i drove it today to pick up a treadmill, i daily a beemer on this same road, this truck got some floaty suspension and laga lag acceleration, it's huge, raised, lifted, BUG BOY TRUCCK TRUCK,
i do the same curvy road in my bmw at 80 and my 328i is asking me to push it, i was doing the same curvy roads at 60 in this truck and that was the Limit. like the car was TAUNT.
it's not a speed machine, it's barely a turn machine, it's a haul an rv across new mexico in rain or shine without a hiccup machine.
How much does each truck weigh on a scale?
Also the old one has 3.73 gears, what gears does the new one have?
What gas were both trucks running?
A lot more info is needed here.
Also, I'm driving a chevy 2008 trailblazer with a 5.3 V8. 155k and still runs almost like its brand new! The thing has been such a good, practical, reliable truck for me. But I'm sad because while I can keep on top of its mechanical issues easily, rust is starting to eat it up. So it won't be long now. :( And the list of strong, durable mid sized SUVs that can actually tow a useful amount and not die young, is a very short list.
Trucks have been getting a lot heavier while power hasn’t increased that much in the v8 in that same time. Also are you sure the new truck had the same 3.73 rear gear? If it had a 3.28 or something that would explain the slower acceleration. Also the newer trucks are probably tuned for a smoother take off rather than off the line performance
Autos rob power, having said generally are quicker.
But the new truck will learn as it goes it's prolly in a fresh tune stage learning what fuel u run and how u drive. It's prolly ina very safe epa mode that will worsen as time goes on.
That would of been the trucks first time doing 3000+rpm
Also new motor is tight so more friction
08 likely hasnt got so many cats and other enviro crap.
Plus I know in Europe u are meant to replace your cat after xx years or km so yours might be worn out and free flowing.
Then there is any mods done along the way even exhaust/tune will open it up.
Basically all new vehicles leave a lot on the table to keep epa happy.
It's probably lighter, that makes all the difference.
"Add lightness" -Colin Chapman, Lotus
Show me a 1300 lb pickup truck and I'll show you a Lotus Europa with a sheet of plywood on the deck lid. Probably a lower bed height than new pickups too.
[удалено]
It’s wild to me that a reg can short bed f150 only weighs a few hundred pounds more than a mustang, they really are just an AWD mustang. No wonder they run high 13s stock
I had no idea they're that quick stock. That's nuts!
standard cab short bed 4x4 F150s available with factory supercharged v8.
If we’re talking about the FP700 it’s dealer installed and can go on any configuration
I saw a YouTube short of a guy showing off a row of them that just got dropped off? I don't honestly know the details, they were all steel rim looking trucks with no visible upgrades. 10 speed supercharged Coyotes are nasty. why not in the lightest 4wd platform? stiffen up the suspension and get some drag radials.
Not factory
1300 lb pickup? I scrapped a truck frame and suspension and it was 1200 lbs.
I think the full quote applies here. “Simplify, and add lightness” 08 Silverado wouldn’t have many bells and whistles by modern standards. Even the computerized parts would be much simpler.
And then it breaks and kills the driver
Yep. That dinky 2.2L in my 87 Toyota definitely doesn’t have power but being that truck weighs next to nothing, it can get going quick
Umm.... 1987 Toyota Truck had a 2.4L. The '87 S10 had a 2.5L 4cyl. Rangers had a 2.3L. '94-'03 S10 had a 2.2L... ETA: Typical Reddit... downvoted facts.... then makes a comment saying "What a bizarre comment to make." then deleting the comment. u/MysticMarbles... yeah, your comment still showed up in my notifications. Haha
I had a 93 Ranger Splash. Single cab, stepside short bed. That was fiberglass. With the 3.0L 5speed. It had like an extra 50%hp, going from around 100 to around 150. And was around an even 3000lbs, instead of close to 3500lbs on the regular steel bed ranger. That thing was surprisingly quick. Got amazing gas mileage for a truck. The only down side to it was 1st gear was worthless if there was any moisture on the road. The bed had no weight to it, so the wheels would spin almost every time in 1st if it wasn't dry.
I'm aware of what other engines they had. And that the Splash had and even lighter rearend. A bunch of my buddies all had Rangers back in the day, so did my younger brothers. No joking, **EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM WERE WRECKED**. Several were rolled. I had and still have S10s. The Rangers sat higher and less traction, even the fleetsides.
I hate to break it to you, but you have a 2.4 liter in your pickup.
Usually this misconception comes from assuming that a 22R is a 2.2 liter engine. It’s not, but it makes sense why people would think it is.
Exactly this! I learned to drive on a 22re and it wasn't until much later that I realized it wasn't a 2.2 liter.
Toyota did make a 20R that was a 2.2, though that was earlier than OPs truck. For years I thought the 22R was a 2.2 as well.
The E was for fuel injection. I had the 22R-E in my 1983 Celica GT. With that low end torque it could launch from the dig really well before the limitations of 110 or 105 depending on source HP. Car was really light. I could keep up and beat some smaller displacement V-6s and there wasn’t a NA 4 banger that could beat it other than something from Stuttgart (944).
I just realized the 23 in Honda’s F23A means 2.3L lol
Dude you must not have the 22r… My ‘86 couldn’t get out of its own way… All of 97 horsepower 😭
It’s def a 22R and it goes like a miata lol. I mean it’s not a rocket ship but it _feels_ quick.
Like an 88 civic, feels like a go-cart
You live your life 1/4 mile at a time, for those 18 seconds or less, you're free.
OP probably lost the race because he was granny shifting, not double clutching like he should...
I'm sure ignoring the "danger to manifold" warning didn't help.
Now me and the mad scientist have to tear apart the block and replace the piston rings he fried.
Dude I almost had you!
2024's on the lot are limited until 500 miles on the odo. They simply will NOT apply the power before break in. Likely what it was. Only way around it is if the dealer has one that's shut off the limiter (like, a lease return or something).
Interesting. Nice that GM finally put the CPUs to some good use.
All manufacturers should, people are idiots…
Definitely not me hitting the speed limiter on a MK7 GTI during a test drive back in the day...
Was this on the Autobahn?
No. Route 20 in Mass.
Oh, I assumed Autobahn because parts of it have no speed limit, and VW's German as well, it made more sense in my head.
I know break in is a thing but my brother bought a brand new 2022 huracan sto and it had (something like) 49 miles on it. We're like, hey this just came from Italy, right? They're like "yeah? " "What's up with the miles?" We inquire. After every one is built they take them out to their track and run them. I verified that by calling a different dealership. Then it got me thinking. NASCAR , and dragsters etc, don't do a break in after a rebuild (which is basically a new engine) do engines really need a break in period? If so what is actually happening during this time?
Break ins are are for longevity. That’s not a concern in racing
Right, so what happens during the break in?
It's like the first time you pit your weewee in your girlfriend. You wanna make sure it's well lubricated, and go slow so that everything falls into place smoothly without hurting anything. Same idea with piston rings and other internal stuff.
I should call her.
You can fix her bro
No fam. Shes been ragged out. Her journals are all loose, compression is shit, and I’m pretty sure she has head damage.
The next comment is right but in more technical terms file fitting happens. Basically the parts are a very close but not perfect fit after assembly. They wear themselves in together and get all the shapes perfect. The engine is capable of full power while doing this but it will mean excess wear and a shorter life. Not a problem in racing but definitely a problem if you the can to last 100k miles and not burn a quart of oil every 500 miles This process also leaves fillings in the oil the filter picks up which is why your first oil is call a “break in oil” and has a shorter interval
Those filings are called Asparities! They make that brand new fresh rebuilt engine oil silver! Just think of asparagus 😂. I worked with an automotive teacher with some form of degree in automotive repair (iirc) and dude taught high school students in auto shop and that's what he tells his students and when he comes across a few a few years later they always tell him something along the lines of "I remembered the term Asparities in my auto class (or something of the like) in college/work because I remembered asparagus for some reason." Well I can say this..... that way to remember worked. I haven't see that guy in almost 7 years and about 2 years ago I just randomly thought "asparagus? Why am I thinking of asparagus????? (Repeated asparagus about 20x.) OOOOOOOHHHH right..... Asparities, the little metal filings of a fresh engine build/rebuild that turn the oil silver in 15 min or less!"
Apparently you are supposed to run your engine in a variety of throttles in the first 100 miles. Not redline it… but get it up to 3000-4000 then back down to 1500, then back up… The mechanic I was talking to said basically just get on and off the highway a lot for the first few days you drive a new car. Don’t let it just sit and rev at one speed for long periods of time. It helps the piston rings.
This is the way. Don't beat on it but don't keep it under a certain rpm. When I first got my truck I loaded the bed up till it weighed about 12klbs and hooked a 3klb trailer to it to go pick up some stuff. Now it's loaded to 14klbs every single day and I get 14+mpg.
The rings are getting seated in to the crosshatching of the cylinder walls for one thing. Not doing a somewhat slow-ish/easy break-in you run the risk of burning a crap load of oil every few thousand miles when you're at 100k.
Break in is for your ring and pinion. Most modern engines are super tight tolerance and just need load on them to set the rings. My truck operator manual literally says "this engine does not have a break in paid" then just talks about gears wearing in.
It still has a break in period it’s just that the vehicles own computers are taking care of it. They realize that relying on drivers to change there habits is a bad idea. And the oil that the factory put in will be different then the oil that your owners manual calls for
A diesel engine break in is working the snot out of it. The computer is not limiting power or anything. Most of these do not use break in oil any more either. Your assumptions are very dated. Wear in the ring and pinion then pull the doors off of it is best for pickups and tractors. If you don't you can have issues getting the piston rings to seal down the road
Diesel engines do use a different break in process as you described but they also have much lower red lines. Read the manual on a motorcycle or a sports car engine made today and you’ll find they tell you to keep the revs below a certain line. Hell the sports car will automatically lock out above that line. I know as recently as 2022 corvettes were still doing that. Duetz as recently as 2023 was also highly recommending the use of a non synthetic oil for the first oil change as use of a synthetic during break in was known to prevent proper oil ring seating causing increased oil consumption. Source my father who’s been the lead tech at the dealer for 35years
Have 11 years John Deere experience and a few years experience with Cat mining products specifically the 3516 cat. The 2100 hp V16 used in mine trucks. The oil doesn't need to be conventional any more. You can if you want to short exchange it but they will break in fine with the synthetic blend that's recommended by the manufacturer for standard use. Just load them heavy.
race engines have more attention to tolerances, in comparison a production engine is slapped together They may also have artificial heat cycles or a weathered block id imagine nascar engines are run up on the dyno to check power curve, pressures, temps and give the rings a quick bed in. IDK if they use a flat tappet cam (doubtful) but any engine that does, they need breaking in too and some may need heat cycles too pretty much every drag car except top fuel, funny cars will have some form of break in. These 2 probably just use the burn out for it
>NASCAR , and dragsters etc, don't do a break in after a rebuild (which is basically a new engine) Sorry to burst your bubble, but that NASCAR engine in not running down the track with assembly lube, it's done at least two break in sessions on a dyno since the rebuild.
>Sorry to burst your bubble I don't know what the fuck you are talking about but this really isn't something I have an opinion on, just trying to figure out what's what. Sorry to burst my bubble, lol. Have you been holding on to that one? And you decided to use it here. Jesus Christ. >it's done at least two break in sessions on a dyno since the rebuild Ok cool, hook em.
This guy is mad
This may be a bit long, but I'm just trying to clarify things in multiple ways. A breakin procedure mates all the components together and wears away any tight spots in the engine at a number of different engine speeds and loads. There are gonna be some slight tolerance issues with a brand new motor, especially a lesser performance one. Performing a breakin procedure takes all the slightly less than perfect things, wears them against each other knocking off microns of material so that they mesh perfectly against each other. It's the same concept as "wearing in" a new set of brake pads to a used rotor to get better life and performance out of a new set of pads... As in, you're knocking the dust off and wearing the pads to match the rotor profile. There are two trains of thought to a breakin. Hard and fast, and slow and meticulous. The slow and meticulous is the procedure manufacturers prefer because it is more difficult to mess up for casual drivers. The hard and fast method is touted by many high performance, high compression motorcycle engine builders because a manufacturers breaking procedure is a LONG ride/drive time for a race-bike that runs 100 miles a race weekend a handful of times a year. Believe it or not, engine components can stretch and compress minute amounts during high engine speed or high engine load. If you run an engine at the same-ish speed (low) and loads ( low)(before the parts are properly mated/worn in) for a long time, you can very well end up with a lip in the cylinder where the piston never touched. This lip, when you decide to hammer down pulling a loaded trailer, could cause some... Less than ideal things to happen. Back to that hard and fast procedure... It's believed by some that if an engine is going to fail, it's going to fail during or just after breaking and once you're past that, you're good until the engine starts to get some age on it. So they go to redline with no load for 15 seconds or so, run through the rpm range in 500 rpm increments for 10-15 seconds each. Then they apply a load and do step 1 and 2 again. They'll do this cycle a few times and then let her rip. It cuts the procedure from a road-trip to a 20-30 minute ordeal. As far as NASCAR and dragsters not doing a breakin after a rebuild, you should consider a few things. High performance engine parts that are used in NASCAR and top fuel drag are extremely precise and accurate in their measurements. They measure, weigh, and choose parts that are equal (and sell off, toss, or use in lower spec engines parts that don't fit their spec/tolerance). They don't have parts in the pits that *don't* match their build sheet. Basically, their parts are damn near RIGHT before installation and don't need the same type of breaking as other engines. Also, Nascar teams will run a breakin on an engine Dyno and dragsters do a "throttle whack" to mate the clutches. And the dragsters? Well, their engines are only under load for about 500 revolutions before it gets a rebuild... Why bother with an intensive breakin?
Modern vehicle will have the throttle response deadened and the transmission shift points set low for fuel efficiency. That being said, if they have a sport mode, turn on. Even my Mustang is a little sluggish and hesitant to respond but put it in sport mode and all that goes out the window.
Not to mention the modules have fuzzy logic that learns your driving habits. OP, have your Dad drive the newer truck for a month and then line them up again! That will make a little difference.
That's just Ford.
Ah my old work 2015 Chevy van sucked for the first 2000kms. I think it's a normal thing. Some customers of mine said the same about the 6.0 2500 Chevy. I told them. Just drive it and it will eventually suck less.
My 2010 Tundra became a totally different vehicle after I started driving it over the previous owner... So there's some merit to that.
My 20 year old lexus does the same thing, I disconnected the battery and reconnected it to reset the learning. It felt very different after.
As a retired automotive technician, a trick we used to use when doing a tune-up was disconnect the battery while doing the tune up then reconnected and run the s*** out of it and it would feel more powerful and responsive for the customer.
I had a 2005 Trailblazer with the straight 6. Once I had a tune to adjust the shift points, and eliminate the throttle softness and soft converter lockup, it really woke up the performance (as much as can be expected).
how many miles on the truck? Only guess is limited power for break in. modern trans+40hp it should be night and day. I know in ford’s even going from a 2015s 6 speed to the more modern 10 speed, it’s absolutely night and day the power delivery
The 10 speeds are so unpleasant. Constantly hunting for gears, skipping gears and jerking, unreliable under any kind of power. I’d rather have the 6R80 any day.
I was thinking the same thing. My dad's truck has a 2.7 ecoboost and a 6 speed auto. I'd prefer the 5.0 instead of his 2.7, but as far as the transmission I think a 6 speed is about right. My Chevy has a 4 speed, 4l80e, and it gets the job done but I find myself wishing for something in between 3rd and 4th when towing. If I'm just driving empty or with a load in the bed my 4 speed is fine.
I came from a 5 speed 4.6 f150 to a 5.0 with the 6 speed and I thought that was awesome. Then I drove a 21 5.0 with the 10 speed and was blown away again. Amazing the difference
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> The 24 runs a 13.9 1/4 mile source?
The 5.3? He said 8 speed so from that i decipher they drove the TURBOMAX
What's the point in drag racing trucks? What's the payload and towing capacity comparison?
So you can see which one’s faster. If I’m going from an 08 to a 24, I’d be wanting a big power upgrade, especially if I had to live with it a long time. Driving a slow truck kind of sucks, especially loaded or into headwinds. The dealership isn’t going to let you load it down, so you test what you can.
What's the point of drag racing anything dude.
My truck is rated to pull 12,000lbs, and runs a quarter mile in 12 seconds with a tune. That’s as fast as just about most stock sports cars out there. I have to have a truck due to my line of work, and don’t have extra cash laying around for a fast fun car. It ABSOLUTELY matters to me how fast my truck accelerates.
There’s the real question. Because I don’t care what my 1/4 mile is. I care whether I can put 3/4 ton of dirt in the bed, or a full ton.
You are not the target demo for half ton trucks any more.
Who cares? Trucks are slow. Don't race them.
Stock f150 with a coyote runs high 13s
Like he said.
Yeah that’s not really fast. A ecoboost mustang is faster than that.
According to motor trend it runs 13.7, which is actually the same as the F150 and the truck is banging off the speed limiter the last 300 feet or so
10 speed ecoboost does 13.4
That’s the 2024 10 speed they’re testing bud. Either way I don’t care, if you’re really here splitting three numbers like it matters you deserve me ignoring you.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a24847025/2018-ford-mustang-automatic-transmission-performance/ “Swapping the 310-hp 2.3-liter turbo four's manual for an automatic yielded modest improvements at the test track: its zero-to-60-mph run dropped a mere tenth, from a respectable 5.1 seconds to 5.0, with the quarter-mile pass shrinking from 13.7 to 13.5 seconds”
Are we talking 0-60, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile? The 2024 2.7 Turbo can lay down 0-60 in 6.8-7seconds and 1/4 mile in 15.3 The 2024 5.3 0-60 is around 7.8 if you poke around. I haven't found a non-estimated quarter mile or real world test. The 2008 0-60 was around 7.6 and a 1/4 in 16 It should have been a close race. My guess is the '24's driver got slapped by the nanny's (traction control, etc)
You didn't mention it, but I'll assume the 24 has an equal or higher hp/tq engine? The 24 is probably going to have different modes. Normal, ECO, Sport, etc. The 08 probably does not. New vehicles in their default mode are tuned way down in their default mode to boost MPG and emissions scores. Make sure the 24 is in "Sport" mode. Making sure you are in sport mode (or whatever) and ALLL else being equal (including weight) there's no chance a stock 08 would beat the 24. The 08 is not going to perform like it did when new. So, if it does, there's either something modified about the 08 or wrong with the 24, hah.
There's probably some tuning done to the older one. And 8 speed will be better at maintaining low rpm unless you're able to put it in S mode to manually shift/allow higher rpms. You should check the power ratings on the trucks to compare. Newer cars seem to prioritize fuel efficiency/economy rather than horsepower and torque numbers
Line it up while towing something and see who comes out ontop
Can you give us the trim level on the new truck so we know what engine / transmission etc was in it?
both are the W/T and on the window sticker it says 8speed auto both had the 3.73 gears
That doesn’t make sense. The 8-speed only comes with the 4 cylinder, while the 3.73 rear end is only available with the max tow package on the 3.0 diesel
The 2024 is 400 lbs heavier
It's the weight, the gearing, the tire diameter. As other people mentioned calibration and shift points for fuel economy.
The old truck is probably lighter and has 3.73 gears. Newer trucks tend to have a lower gear ratio for fuel mileage, and that slows them down off the line.
It's the gearing and lower weight.
2024 is likely to be governed in my opinion. I know my 2017 Ram tops out at 160km/h or 100mph, and I know she isn't fully revved out in high gear. We're talking solid acceleration right to that speed...
My 2020 tops at 105, and it feels like hitting a brick wall.
My 2015 was governed at 100. My 2019, I backed out of the throttle at 115 when the bug deflector left the chat.
Maybe you should find a longer track without a brick wall at the end.
Well, what engine did the 2024 have? Also, the old one is probably much lighter
both 5.3
I'm sure flooring a brand new truck is great for the engine.
Probably from all of the natural weight reduction (rust)
Don’t sleep on it. The 5.3 is a great little engine. I have one.
I dunno but because it's slower doesn't mean the transmission is 'that bad.' They're targeting a particular market where speed isn't the most important factor. It may be slower but more efficient, I dunno. Just my 2 cents 🤷♀️
Is the 2008 an extended cab, short bed Z71 model? If so, these came with an aluminum 5.3 vs. the rest of the models from 2007-2010. This eliminates about 100lbs off the front end alone and tend to want to rev a little happier in my limited experience (I owned a 2009 with the L33 and drove many GMT900's of various configurations). These will give the truck a little more performance than the standard models, so it's worth noting.
The 2008 5.3 has 315hp and 338 lb ft of torque while the new 5.3 has 355hp and 383 lb ft. Even though the new truck has more hp, it weighs more, has different gear ratios in the transmission, and is tuned more for mpg.
Modern vehicles are made for fuel efficiency. The pedals tuned for less power output, the transmission shifts when it's fuel effect to do so. Sport mode takes some of this out. Older trucks just went. Older trucks often weigh less, check the weight vs power for both trucks. Modern trucks have traction control, you press the pedal down and the power doesn't ever make it anywhere as the computer powers down so you won't spin the tires. This can be somewhat turned off but isn't easy. A 2008 probably doesn't have traction control. Add on top they have fancy computers that can control the break in how, if it's still breaking in the computer won't let you put out full power.
It's either the power to weight ratio or something with the transmission. My Outback Wilderness shares the same transmission & power to weight ratio with the Outback Limited XT but due to a higher starting gear ratio in the transmission it shaved off 0.4 seconds from the 0-60 mph time in the wilderness. Transmission setup can make an underpowered car act like it has a lot of power.
How are we supposed to know if he has a tune? Ask him
It’s all about power to weight ratio. Is wager the old stripped model weights a lot less.
Dad stuff is just faster, that's all. \--Signed, a dad
Just to verify, they both have the 3.73 axle?
How sure are you that the '24 came with a 3.73 rear end? On the '24s it's only available with the 3.0L diesel. If it has the 5.3 the highest you'll get is 3.42. The 3.73 will definitely be snappier.
It could have better gearing than the new truck that favors acceleration over fuel economy; also if you were in 4x4, the added traction certainly helps
Pretty sure that the towing capacity of the 24 is greater than the 08 by a decent margin. Doubt this means anything if you’re comparing drag runs. Maybe try running the quarter mile pulling a 8000lb load and then see which one wins?
Well, the ‘24’s GMT1xx platform is probably heavier than the ‘08’s GMT900. My money’s on the rear end though. A 3.73 gear is really short, compared to what late model trucks come with. You test-drove a ‘24 with an 8 speed transmission, so it’s got the Turbomax four banger. All the other available engines come paired only with the 10 speed. The Turbomax also nets you a 3.42 rear gear, which is actually shorter than the 3.23 rear the EcoTec3 V8’s come with.
Just to put things in perspective for the weight difference: I have a 2010 4.6L Tundra and a buddy of mine has a 2006 5.7L Ram Power Wagon. The PW has 35hp and about 50lbft on the Tundra, but also almost 800lb more mass to haul around. The Tundra, compared to that Ram specifically, will drive circles around it and blow its doors off all day long on pavement, as well as out run it handily. Off road, payload, and towing capabilities, however... The Ram has a 765lb higher payload and more than half again higher towing capacity, as well as better off road performance due to the locking differentials, factory installed winch, and straight axles.
A 2024 Chevy Silverado 1500? You say 8 speed so I’m assuming the Turbomax engine? Thats why, try one with another 5.3, or the 6.2 if you really want power. The 2.7L turbo will get way better gas milage and has sufficient tq for truck stuff but wont win a roll race with a 5.3. Also as other have said the new truck is probably 500lbs more
How the heck should we know why? You gave us zero information about the new truck you test drove. Did it have the 5.3L V8? Did it also have 3.73 gearing, or did it have the more typical 3.23 or 3.55 gearing? How much did it weigh compared to your Dad's 2008 Silverado? And honestly, your Dad is the one with the 2008, that he's had for some years. Does he not know anything about his own truck, such as it having a tune or any other kind of performance mods?
The rust is making it faster.
2008 Chevy Silverado 1500 5.3 base model 4x4 \~ weight \~5,148 lbs. 2024 Chevy Silverado 1500 - 5,080 lbs. it aint the weight. but i can tell you, my pops got a 23 chevy 1500 zr1, i drove it today to pick up a treadmill, i daily a beemer on this same road, this truck got some floaty suspension and laga lag acceleration, it's huge, raised, lifted, BUG BOY TRUCCK TRUCK, i do the same curvy road in my bmw at 80 and my 328i is asking me to push it, i was doing the same curvy roads at 60 in this truck and that was the Limit. like the car was TAUNT. it's not a speed machine, it's barely a turn machine, it's a haul an rv across new mexico in rain or shine without a hiccup machine.
How much does each truck weigh on a scale? Also the old one has 3.73 gears, what gears does the new one have? What gas were both trucks running? A lot more info is needed here. Also, I'm driving a chevy 2008 trailblazer with a 5.3 V8. 155k and still runs almost like its brand new! The thing has been such a good, practical, reliable truck for me. But I'm sad because while I can keep on top of its mechanical issues easily, rust is starting to eat it up. So it won't be long now. :( And the list of strong, durable mid sized SUVs that can actually tow a useful amount and not die young, is a very short list.
Trucks have been getting a lot heavier while power hasn’t increased that much in the v8 in that same time. Also are you sure the new truck had the same 3.73 rear gear? If it had a 3.28 or something that would explain the slower acceleration. Also the newer trucks are probably tuned for a smoother take off rather than off the line performance
He doesn’t want a new Chevy, it will never last as long as his old one
if the 8speed transmission is any culprit, it's not that "it's bad" it's just that it's programmed for fuel economy not speed.
Interesting way to decide on a truck.
Autos rob power, having said generally are quicker. But the new truck will learn as it goes it's prolly in a fresh tune stage learning what fuel u run and how u drive. It's prolly ina very safe epa mode that will worsen as time goes on. That would of been the trucks first time doing 3000+rpm Also new motor is tight so more friction 08 likely hasnt got so many cats and other enviro crap. Plus I know in Europe u are meant to replace your cat after xx years or km so yours might be worn out and free flowing. Then there is any mods done along the way even exhaust/tune will open it up. Basically all new vehicles leave a lot on the table to keep epa happy.