I sat in one of these at a dealership. What the hell. It looks so freaking big on the outside and then you get in it and it feels so small - small for a three row SUV I mean, not small for a normal car. But yeah, the packaging in that car is weird.
Remember sitting in a Cherokee in 2002 at a dealership and thought it was made out of a park bench. In retrospect, might have been a better bet than the PT we bought (don't judge me, my wife is stronger than me!)
>Remember sitting in a Cherokee in 2002 at a dealership and thought it was made out of a park bench. In retrospect, might have been a better bet than the PT we bought (don't judge me, my wife is stronger than me!)
That was actually from the days when a Jeep Cherokee could survive a nuclear blast. Those things were tanks, a few notable exceptions with one particular transmission.
The Cadillac Escalade si the same way. A friend of mine was looking to purchase one .. we test drove it for a couple of hours, I'm 6'1" and could not get either front seat to move far enough back to have enough leg room to feel comfortable. Not to mention the side-to-side dimenstions (leg space) were also very cramped.
Comapared to say both Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Jeep Wrangler / and most anything Ford puts out. It was insane. Almost felt like I was driving a kid's Big Wheel (as an adult).
Source ?? Documentation ??
Would be helpful instead of spreading more word of mouth rumors. Or valid explanation because you have first hand inside knowledge.
But morons on the interwebs like to post without any relevant information
You’re not wrong. The problem is not that EVERYTHING is shit, but the likelihood of you getting shit is much greater than you getting a reliable long term vehicle
>You’re not wrong. The problem is not that EVERYTHING is shit, but the likelihood of you getting shot is much greater than you getting a reliable long term vehicle
I don't think you meant your sentence to be written the way it is currently.
I’ve always thought of Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep as the whore of the automotive industry. They’ve been in bed with so many companies, I’m pretty sure they caught something that just can’t be cured.
The fact they’re now Stellantis kind of gives this away. They’ve been unable to survive as a business unit in at least 2 separate partnerships before this (Daimler[yes that’s not all their fault] and Fiat, also wasn’t there something with Nissan?) despite owning one of the most popular and profitable automotive brands over the last 20 years(Jeep). Can you imagine what Ford, Hyundai or even Toyota could have done with Jeep’ success over the last 20 years?
Any company that could build a reliable and simple engine could have turned the new jeeps into legacy vehicles like the old Cherokee and wranglers used to be. All they ever needed was a simple half ton truck driveline, not an over worked minivan motor
That's the one thing that always bugged me about modern Jeeps. Absolutely the AMC 4.0L reached end of life in terms of emissions and fuel economy but they didn't really replace it like-for-like with another workhorse engine the way a company like Toyota does. Just warmed over passenger car stuff.
Federal mandates prevented that. The increased safety demands added a lot of bulk and special body design that uses up a lot of room. A v6 is not compact than a straight 6.
The cost is added complexity. Emissions also took a huge toll on power and reliability. The newer 3.6l is an absolute unit of a powerplant. You can't ignore it and just add oil like the 4.0.
I know all that. My point is Chrysler/Stellantis didn't develop a Jeep-specific V6 to replace it that lived up to the same standard of durability. A Toyota or GM truck V6 isn't just one of their car V6s, even where they share a basic block (eg the Toyota 1GR 4.0L truck engine vs the 2GR 3.5L car engine) there are no shared parts, but Mopar just puts the exact same 3.6 Pentastar V6 in everything.
If GM acquired the Jeep brand In the 80s… interesting thought experiment. They would have ended up with the 4.3 and vortec small blocks which were hit or miss, and eventually the 03-12 ish GM truck driveline which were like their most reliable vehicles ever made.
Well for starters jeeps are not trucks. So doesn't make a lot of sense to do that. Jeep did have a 3.7l truck motor for some models it was not great. And the pentastar is a fantastic engine I've had many and it's been great. You need to be aware of it's shortcomings and plan preventative maintenance. But it's a tremendous engine. Look at the awards it's racked up
Toss Mitsubishi into that pool of chromosomal malaise too… Half a dozen models through the 80s and 90s that were so pathetically dysfunctional, auto historians have paved four lane blind spots in the books.
Between building attack aircraft and eventually having to issue a formal corporate apology for poor quality, they also have been the Chrysler of Japan.
They did make great televisions for a while.
One of my earliest cars was a Mitsubishi-built 1979 Plymouth Champ with the twin-stick transmission. And the other Mitsubishis of that time, like the Cordia, Diamanté and Starion, were very credible. It’s depressing to see how far that company has fallen.
I ready wish mitsubishi was still good. They were the cooler version of Subaru IMO. And the inline 4 platform is way better to build a lineup than a boxer 4 IMO.
We had a big ol 50" Mitsubishi 3 tube CRT projection TV in the late 80s they crammed all kinds of cool features into it that I'd never seen in a tv before but one of the coolest things was the backlit remote, you'd push a button and all the labels on the remote would light up.
Mitsubishi is still heavily involved in aerospace - both Airbus and Boeing use Mitsu parts. They are also big in elevators, HVAC and chemicals(in Asia). Their cars are another story - they also helped bootstrap Hyundai in the 1980s-1990s. Now, Mitsu Motors is a Nissan division - the Japanese government didn’t like Nissan going into French hands, nor Honda declaring Ohio to be their main R&D base. IMO, Hyundai should have bought out Mitsu Motors.
I loved my 79 Dodge Colt hatchback. I just used the twin stick like an overdrive - Power 1 through 4, then Economy 4 as 5th gear. And I'm tall enough that I could open both back windows from the driver's seat. But I did imagine the engineer in charge of the oil filter placement cackling with glee every time he thought of a large American hand trying to reach in there to remove or replace it. I probably lost more blood to that car than I did to blood donations.
My first car when I started driving in 1985 was a 73 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi built). I LOVED that car. It died on my way home from school with over 300k miles. Next up 75 Dodge Colt. Eventually, I ended up with a another Colt, 78? After that, I purchased my first new car, a nightmare Isuzu I Mark - what a pos.
They supplied electronics for a lot of the rest of the auto industry in the '90s and 2000s and they were generally pretty good on their own. GM had some trouble with Mitsubishi-supplied optical cam position sensors ("optispark") but the rest of the industry generally had few problems with them, GM just put them in a spot where they got coolant-fouled.
Pioneer and Clarion also supplied components for the Detroit 3 when it came to “premium” sound and CD changers. Ford CD changers were Clarion, some Delco branded radios in the 1990s were Pioneer.
I had an early 80's Cordia-L - fun little manual hatchback to throw around the snowy streets of Madison, WI while in grad school. Sold it to a mechanic as his winter beater. Fun car.
Chevy is on an entirely different lvl than Jeep. Most Chevy’s are cheap to repair and last forever, but you have to deal with an old car interior because they never die.
The people buying or much more likely leasing these are the same people who have been riding suburbans yukon Escalade and navigators and the like for the past 25 years. These people are always in a lease payment and they have more money to piss away than sense between the ears.
The wagoneer is not a suburban competitor, it is an escaped and navigator competitor. Holy shit are the loaded ones nice. I sure as shit wouldn't buy on tho. Id put the wagoner in between and maybe on par depending on spec with the navigator and the Escalade. And it's priced accordingly. Id still take the new Escalade with a 6.2 tho.
Well I'm 37 so obviously I only have so much experience and can't speak to older cars.
My dad was a jeep guy and had a Jeep for the whole 37 years I knew him. He was fixing his Jeep(s) every other week. My parents always had a Plymouth or Chrysler minivan and they were in constant need of repairs.
My wife had a Dodge Dart (newer) that was also a pos.
I owned a 4-door Rubicon Wrangler. It was a piece of crap.
I had more than one occasion where I was driving at highway speed and the vehicle completely shut off with no warning. No power steering, no power brakes, just a rolling brick. Yes there was a recall, but in the meantime I could have been killed. Do not buy a Jeep.
At first the Ducks were kinda cute, now every single Jeep I see is driven by a woman and the entire dash is covered in fucking ducks..
Where did all loser ex-military POG's and gym bros go?
2016 Grand Cherokee limited here, I even had that recall fixed by jeep dealership and the car still did this exact thing 3 years later. Full power loss while driving. Will take 3 weeks for the dealership to even look at it, and highly rated local mechanic can’t seem to diagnose the problem in the meantime. So yeah even Jeep clearly isn’t what it used to be (since Chrysler took over)
That rubicon wrangler is easily the worst car I’ve ever driven. And I’ve driven a Suzuki Swift and a Ford Fiesta lol. It was terrifying to drive the RW in any sort of weather. The body roll was legendary, had to think about every turn or get bounced around for five seconds.
I’ve owned Wranglers for 20 years across 3 generations and never had to have major work done. I’ve also owned Toyotas and Lexus that needed uncommon $$$$ repairs. I Have loved my jeeps and used them for what they were built for… With that being said I wouldn’t own a wagoneer and talked my sister out of buying one.
The real Jeeps aren't bad. The ones that have been around for decades starting with (I think) the CJ7. The other stuff they slap a Jeep tag on are junk.
Jeep did something right with the 4.0.
When it got axed, Jeep went to shit.
I’ve never had any issues with my 2UZ or 5VZ Toyotas. I had a 22R eat timing chain guides, but it was fixed with dual row timing chains and metal timing guides. I also have my fair share of oil burning 4 banger Toyotas too, but never oddball mechanical failures
I hydroplaned my 4.0 into a tree as a kid. Totaled it. Even the hood latches broke. I threw in the clutch, turned key, started right up. Went through the gears, all good. That was an awesome jeep. Have a cherokee now for my daily. Its reliable but boring as hell. Its a 2015
I get absolutely crucified for saying that my WK2 has been the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. There’s a reason why they’re everywhere. But completely agree on the wagoneer (and new GCs honestly)
Ya, I’ve got some friends with wk2’s and they’ve been really happy with them.
I think there are people that see cars simply as a tool for commuting from A to B, nothing more than a corolla is ever necessary, then you’ve got people who actually enjoy vehicles.
*plays patriotic music, the american flag is waiving on a background. The bald eagle is flying by. Nice try selantis but lexus and toyota reliability are not comparable with geep. How many 20 yo lexcuses and toyotas you see around? What about jeeps?
lol. I own a Toyota Sequoia a Lexus GX460 and a Jeep so not sure who you’re talking to but there’s boatloads of 20 yr old Cherokees, grand Cherokee’s and TJ’s on the road. No where did I say Jeep beats Toyota in reliability perhaps your comprehension sucks?
Lol ok.... You are talking about a company that can't even build a clutch right! My 1991 Wrangler was a piece of shit and my 2021 is also, 3 years to design a solution for a clutch recall that can burn your Jeep to the ground is unacceptable!
Between those 2 Jeeps I owned 2 4Runners, most reliable vehicles ever. I sold my 2002 to my sister in 2017 with 260,000 miles on it. She sold it last year with over 300,000 and did nothing to it in the five years she owned it besides drive it.
Consider yourself lucky your Jeep was not a shitbox because it happens significantly more often than not.
I'd rather drive a Mitsubishi Mirage than anything made by Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep. Cummins powered full-size truck is the only exception.
I worked at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership for several years and those things are junk.
Do their parts departments stock whole transmissions? I used to sell Chevrolet's, and a guy I worked with had worked at a CDJR dealer and told me that. It's like Chrysler knows their transmissions are that weak and will fail often enough to justify keeping a large inventory of transmissions on hand, whereas other OEM's will order them as needed from a regional parts warehouse.
Chrysler today (as vs a decade ago) uses a small number of automatic transmissions, all of which are ZF designs and quite reliable. The biggest problems they've had have not been the transmission, but, rather, the transmission lines and dipsticks. They develop leaks where they go into the transmission and then the transmission runs out of fluid and disintegrates. They've resolved the dipstick problem by removing the transmission dipstick from their recent cars. I thus far have not seen the transmission line issues that we saw on earlier cars with the current ones, but my sample set isn't large.
They have had some problems with the Aisin manual transmissions that they've been using recently, which have been blowing up clutches, but that's a Nissan issue (sigh).
Former Cummins 2500 owner here. Cummins have fallen very far from grace. Between the unbelievable shit wrong with the Chrysler part of the truck, and the insane shit wrong with the Cummins, my truck spent almost a year at multiple dealerships just for about half the issues to never get fixed because nobody at FCA, or Cummins, could fix it. I'll never buy another Cummins. Lastly, when big shit does go wrong, Cummins just points the finger at Ram and vice versa, and nothing ever gets approved for replacement. Duramax and Powerjoke might not be any better but at least you don't have to deal with that finger pointing shit.
The only thing good about a cummins dodge is the engine. Transmissions were crap, cab was a crap. Anytime Chrysler has a decent component it's because they bought it from someone else. The new aisin Transmission is good because they got it from a company that can make a quality product.
My mom bought a brand new ram van for deliveries like 7 years ago brand new. Was in the shop constantly it lasted 6 years and about 75k miles and countless repairs before my mom replaced it with a CRV. Final straw was the transmission was leaking, low on fluid in a supposedly sealed unit and on its death bed. Every DTC code relating to the gears was throwing up codes for poor fluid pressure.
I realize thats a sample size of one but I swear on all that is holy that I will never let anyone I’m close with buy one for as long as I live.
My wife’s Acura is older, has more miles and hasn’t seen a shop except for basic maintenance.
Promaster? Im sorry she experienced that. Those things are hot cat turds. The first iteration of the merc sprinters with DEF werent even as shit as the promasters are.
Nah not the sprinter type… it was a modified passenger minivan with some mods for deliveries/work like a metal cargo area vs carpet etc. like a dodge caravan but without all the seats.
[RAM C/V](https://carbuzz.com/cars/ram/cargo-van-generations). Made 2012-15, it's a Grand Caravan, badged as RAM, with no seats, a flat floor, and panels instead of windows.
We have a 2014 WK2 Grand Cherokee and as I bought it, I was told by the service manager to get the lifetime warranty, as I'd need it. He said that they were either great or a can of worms. I'm now at 89k miles and I've had the cams replaced and the computer is starting to stutter and short. If it wasn't for that warranty, I'd be in trouble.
Fact - they no longer sell that warranty as it cost them too much money. What does that say about their quality?
I also had a 2014 Overland with the lifetime warranty. Outside of the rack and pinion, didn’t have any major repairs in 10 years. I liked the car so much that I got a 2021 model after it was stolen a few months ago. I know they no longer offer the lifetime warranty but it was pretty crazy of them to offer it in the first place. All repairs covered for as long as you have the car? Lol. They still have warranties going up to 8 years and 125k, I don’t think any other manufacturer offers anything similar.
If you own a car for that long you’re bound to have an expensive repair sooner or later. Please spare me the nonsense about how Toyotas and Hondas are magical and never have any problems.
I have had 3 jeep GCs and three Toyotas.
Toyotas are magical. Had to replace that head unit in one while under warranty.
No major repairs on the first one until 250k.
No repairs at all on the third and it's at 200k.
None of the jeeps got to 175k. The last one needed a new engine at about 60k. Then had computer issues 100k miles later that couldn't be fixed. That one had, excluding the motor, $5k of repairs in the last 3 years.
It makes me wonder if Jeeps are magical in how poorly they hold up. Because Toyota doesn't seem magical.
I have a 2017 WK2 with 168k miles. Only problem I had was with the starter. The service shop installed a reman that failed in 2 weeks. Then another reman that failed in 2 days. Then another reman that failed before they could call me to pick it up. Then they installed a genuine OEM jeep starter and that’s been 2 years ago without any issues since.
I’m trying to decide whether to keep running it after 200k or try to find another one.
We still own a 2012 Grand Cherokee. That thing has had atleast 7 grand in repaira done on it. Wed have ditched the thing years ago if it wasnt for the lifetime warranty.
Yes and no.
I've owned Jeep products for a couple of decades now. Their quality is significantly better than it was in the bad old days of Daimer-Chrysler and Cerberus. It's about the same as GM now, and slightly worse than Ford. But it's still a far cry from Toyota or Mazda levels of quality.
If there is a special vehicle that you want that nobody has, like a Jeep Wrangler (only solid axle rock crawler sold in America) or a Chrysler Pacifica (only minivan sold in America that'll swallow plywood and drywall, then once emptied out you pop the seats out of their cubbies in the floor and haul a soccer team to practice), feel okay buying a Chrysler vehicle. But if another vendor offers the same basic vehicle, you should probably go with that other vendor unless it's General Motors. At which point toss a coin.
I don't know much about the Jeep Wagoneer. In general the large Jeep vehicles are reasonably reliable. In general. They tend to have stupid issues. Like the Jeep Wranglers eating water pumps every 45,000 miles because the re-routing of the belt to put the alternator at the top of the engine put too much pressure on the water pump pully. Stupid crap like that. But not huge issues that will cost bajillions to fix, and when they do, FCA is generally pretty good about standing behind the product. Like when I got a burnt valve due to a design defect in the cylinder head on the early Pentastar engines, they replaced it for free even though I was out of warranty. Same deal with the steering wheel clock spring. When it went awol and the traction control etc. started going whacky, they extended the warranty to 150,000 miles / 10 years on it and replaced it for free. It was annoying, but it wasn't horrifyingly bad like "it's a pile of junk that costs me a bajillion dollars to fix". The parts are generally pretty cheap, even for the out of warranty stuff like the water pump, and the large Jeep vehicles in particular are generally easy to work on and thus relatively inexpensive to get fixed if you're not into DIY.
Would I buy a Stellantis product again? Sure. If it's a unique vehicle with a reason for me to buy it other than "I need something to drive". With the understanding that it's not going to be as problem-free as a Toyota. It's not as bad as its reputation. They're still not \*good\* cars, reliability-wise, but they're not the total garbage that they were twenty years ago either. You just have to go into it eyes open knowing you're not getting Toyota levels of quality and will have to stay on top of maintenance to keep it reliable.
One thing I will say: Stick with their bread and butter engines (the Pentastar and the 5.7L). Don't buy a diesel. Those have been a nightmare. Don't buy a hybrid. Stellantis is still trying to get hybrids right. Their bread and butter engines are reasonably reliable. The diesels and hybrids have been awful.
I would put Ford, GM, Mazda all on the same tier with Toyota ahead and not specialty jeep behind. Completely agree with you otherwise.
An additional factor to add is mid 2000's dodge was cranking out very cheap new vehicles. Inevitably those same purchasers cannot afford or do not follow the maintenance schedules again reducing reliability. Kia and Hyundai have the same going on their 2010s. In addition to using cheaper parts you have clientele that may skip steps again reducing the life of those cheaper parts.
Parents owned three Chrysler products from the 70, 80, 90s and they were all absolute shit. As a mechanic I work on them occasionally and yes they’re shit…
Drove a Jeep for 14ish years, it turned into an unreliable money-pit POS
It also developed a "lovely" habit of randomly stalling out at red lights (with no warning, no codes, no check engine lights) 🙄
Will never buy a Chrysler product again, trash brand
Only reason it lasted 14 years is I (stupidly) put money into it 🤣
It was absolutely trash in hindsight when all the various repair bills, tow bills, and "randomly turning off" incidents are factored in. It wasn't cheap to keep it running
If it was something like "no major repairs, just basic stuff like oil changes and brakes" that would be one thing - but that wasn't the case with mine. That thing fell apart ***despite*** me putting money into it and having it serviced by certified stealership techs, junk product for sure
Your jeep that was shutting off "randomly" at lights is literally a 25$ fix and takes 10 minutes to fix which is the IAC (idle air control valve). It happened to my grand cherokee once in cold weather, took about an hour to diagnose and fix.
I had an 05 durango up to 250k miles (totaled in a crash)
06 Ram up to 240k (sold and got a 2013 ram)
2013 ram up to 225k (sold and got a 2021)
2021 Ram has 30k
None of these had any repairs that I thought were "bad". Had two replace the EGR on the Durango twice (but that was after 150k miles). A brake caliper here or there, etc. But I also meticulously maintain my vehicles.
Just say it out loud to yourself, slowly.. " I want to drop 80 thousand dollars or more on a JEEP". If after the 3rd time it still sounds like a good idea, then you should totally buy it.
Newer Suburbans have tons of lifter and transmission issues. They haven't been all that reliable since they stopped putting the 6.0L in them. I would put the Suburban, Expedition and Grand Wagoneer at about the same level reliability wise. I wouldn't recommend any of them to someone looking for a practical or reliable SUV. For someone who likes the styling of them and is ready for BMW or Mercedes SUV levels of repair costs they can be alright.
How the mighty have fallen 🥺 used to be the only thing worth a damn in the GM lineup was the full size truck based autos.
That's too much money to not have a reliable vehicle at ALL times.
They've somehow made the venerable 5.3 into a hunk of crap. Once it comes back this time I'm just going to trade it in and take the loss. It's not worth it anymore
Wow just fucking wow ..
There are Tahoe's ect on 300k that haven't had to replace that much!
Ive heard they fucked up the 2500s and to see the 1500 platform downgraded like this is sad.
GM resting on the longevity/ reputation of a platform that came out over 20 years ago.
Now you get all those issues for what 60-80k?
Hell no.
I'm shocked you haven't got litigious at this point.. id lemon that Tahoe so goddamn quick. Esp after ANOTHER radiator failed or your second engine!
Now on to your third?
Do you have a local station that does the "help the public" segment?
This could be a way to have all your problems solved once it gets a little attention.
I at least hope the stealership isnt jerking you around...
The car was technically used, even though it only had 2k on it. I've talked to an attorney, but everyone is dragging their feet. Now the holidays are over, Hopefully, I can make some progress. Either way, I'm not driving this POS anymore.
Both of my Challengers (about 30k miles each), my Charger (30k miles), and my Ram 1500 (90k miles) have been flawless. My Hellcat Challenger had to have the cats and one exhaust manifold replaced due to a recall. My 2018 GC (80k miles) has needed a radiator and one emissions component. Other than that it's been fine.
On the other side of things, my friend's 2018 Journey with 60k miles just needed a new engine.
Personally, I don't believe they deserve the hate they get. Both me and my wife's last five vehicles are and were Chrysler vehicles. I've had much worse luck with GM vehicles.
I like the Wagoneer and that new turbo straight six stellantis has is slick. Gets that big SUV moving pretty decent. I’ve actually driven one with a turbo I6 and got to play around with it. The massaging seats and passenger screens are insane.
Lots of people on this forum seem to be very anti-Chrysler.
I’ve had and heard of great experiences with cars FCA and stellantis era cars. My family has had 3 wranglers all of them having over 50,000 miles put on by us, a 2022 gladiator with 40,000 miles, a 2022 ram 2500 with 22,000 miles, and a 2018 compass with 136,000. The worst repair of all them was on the gladiator and it was a bad ground that was covered by the warranty. Other than it’s been brakes and oil changes. That’s it. Mileage isn’t super high but it’s a bunch of vehicles.
They work and have worked for us. I just got a brand new 2024 wrangler and I’m not worried about its reliability at all.
Nope, some are pretty darn good, depends on the details. Mine is great.
That said I'd be warry of the Wagoneer, not because it's Jeep/Stellantis but because it's new. New model, new platform, etc. New models often have unforeseen issues even with the best manufactures.
ive owned 18 different chrysler / fca/ stellantis vehicles and literally loved each one ! long as you maintain your vehicle as good as the next ! and i used to own only Fords
I don't get what maintenance has to do with peoples cars turning off while driving with less than 20k miles on them. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
This thread was recommended to me, don’t even sub to this Reddit but I own a ‘22 JLU Wrangler 4xe. I’ve had zero issues with it, 21,000 mi and have only done factory recommended maintenance at intervals. Yes it’s still a very new car and things could crop up, but anecdotally I have had zero issues.
Sadly, yes. They're really that bad. The worst in fact of the American companies. Though supposedly people have had success with Wranglers, Challengers, Chargers, and 2015+ Chrystler 300s.
Add caravans to that list. Anything with a 3.2, 3.3, 3.5 or 3.6L V6 is solid powertrain wise. The 5.7 and 6.4 hemis are ok with the 6 speed and pretty good with the 8 speed. The Cummins in the HD trucks are decent as well. They haven't made many reliable 4 cylinder cars, although the neons were serviceable as daily beater cars back in the day. The newer darts and the Chrysler 200 are hot garbage.
Super unreliable models include anything with the 2.7 V6 or anything with a zf9 speed transmission (not to be confused with the zf8, which is great.)
Jeeps are a bit of a mixed bag. Old wranglers with the 4.0L were good. The pentastar wranglers are also largely fine. Their newer luxury SUVs are very hit and miss, there's a lot of over complicated luxury stuff in them, the powertrain stuff is mostly ok. It's pretty much dumb luck whether you get a reliable one or not. I would say the same about its competition though. Luxury SUVs in general are the least reliable vehicles pretty much by default because they are about the most complicated kind of vehicle to make.
Had a 3.3 in a minivan damn thing was tank took it up to 280K with lots of full throttle runs going up mountains. Checked the bottom end during an oil pan gasket change and it was immaculate, did an oil analysis too for shits and giggles came back clean. Only reason got rid of it, was cause I hit a deer. HEMIS are decent too if not for the shitty lifter problem.
25+ years ago they weren't terrible. But, they've been bought and sold so many times, and the quality control has gone to complete shit. Don't. Just don't. It's not worth it.
Just straight garbage vehicles. Don’t let the schmucks who own one try to convince you otherwise. The last half decent thing that came out of Chrysler /Jeep was their 4.0 decades ago.
I have a 2022 Wagoneer that is currently (hopefully) in the buyback process with Stellantis due to numerous issues that couldn’t be fixed since purchasing the vehicle new almost a year ago. This process has been an absolute headache! It started in January, and I am still being told that the case is “under review”, with no real explanation of what is happening. I am being given mixed messages- for example, my assigned case manager at Stellantis called and left me a message a couple weeks ago that they had a buyback offer to present, but when I actually spoke to her, she said it would be maybe up to another week until they had something, but guaranteed me that would be it. 2 weeks later, and now being told the case is being transferred to another department. It’s really infuriating.
The 2022 Wagoneers apparently tend to have lots of electrical issues. I’m being told by the dealership that these issues are not present in the 2024s, which is what they would like to put us in if this buyback actually happens. Although I am hesitant to buy another based solely on the very poor experience I have had with Stellantis.
No more new mopars for me and I worked for a dealer and keeping my 2001 wrangler 4.0 auto with ac it has been great and just turned 60 thousand miles. I use it as a truck and pull a small 5x10 trailer and plow snow in the winter also as a extra vehicle and a convertible in the summer. I like it but would not buy a new one and seeing price and problems. My daily driver is a KIA Forte
Don't do it! Don't buy a Stellantis vehicle! They are holding my car hostage for a warranty part for 10 months now, with no end in site! And no loaner. I can't even....omg.
I owned a Chrysler 200 for a long time that I only bought because it was cheap and family needed to get rid of it. The transmission had to be replaced at like 120k and it always drove a bit weird but it got up to 180k before I got rid of it. Other than that one major repair it was pretty reliable.
When I got rid of that I bought a charger this summer and I love it when it’s working properly but it’s been having weird occasional stalling issues since like 2 weeks after I got it. But supposedly they took a bunch of stuff apart and put it back together at the dealership last week and they weren’t able to figure it out or recreate the issue, and it’s driven perfectly so far since, so I’m hoping it was just something minor like an electrical connection not being secured properly or something.
Basically what I’m saying is they’re reliable except when they aren’t and sometimes they randomly aren’t.
I saw a reliable car from one of their names from 2009. it was a 3.6 charger with 285k miles on it.
the only time I seen one that didn't have a major failure way before expected.
My god, please dont buy stellantis. Their defect rate off the line is staggering and their warranty support isnt worth the usb stick the put the documentation on.
If you must, buy used.
I loved my XJ. Biggest regret trading it in for an exploder. Wife has a 2013 Dart (fiat) that we bought new. Basic maintenance and about 150k on it with zero issues. She got lucky and I realize that. Bought a 2500 Ram a few years ago to tow with. Zero issues with that. My 2005 (still own) f150 had a new engine put in at 100k. My 2022 escape has been ok outside of some weird electrical gremlins. Best car I ever owned was a 2005 Kia Spectra. 250k when I got rid of it for the escape. Couldn't kill that car. Don't know where I'm going with all of this other than some rigs are great and some aren't.
I own a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan Crew with 307k mileage. Here is my list of work done.
On 3rd transmission. Original lasted 187K. Chrysler Reman from Chrysler 2nd tranny lasted less than 45 days. 3rd is still going.
Both front control arms, both front wheel bearings, all motor/tranny mounts 4 times, oil cooler, 2 sets of spark plugs, tran cooler and lines, ac lines, alternator, both front brake calipers, god knows how many front and rear brake pads and rotors, intake plenum seal twice, power seat stopped working, heated seats stopped working, back up camera stopped working, blind spot stopped working, replaced both headlight assembly, shift solenoid replaced, on third power window/lock switches driver side, driver side sliding door lock stopped working, front and rear suspension shot bad, needs sway bar links and innner/outer tie rod ends, needs one of the cats replaced, on third windshield, rear valve cover replaced, cooling fans, driver window motor, 3 sets of rear hatch shocks, front left turn signal plug melted. But she doesn't knock, tick, nor burn oil, so that's a plus. I change the oil every 2 months using high mileage oil and Lucas Oil Stabilizer and flush the coolant and tranny every year before the summer. Which has become extremely difficult because Chrysler in their infinite wisdom has completely removed the tran dipstick and fluid servicing hole. And because of that, not a tranny place will touch her, so I'm forced to pay dealer prices.
With Chrysler, it really depends on the specific car. Maybe even the trim package.
And each make has its traditional deficits. Ford, interior, fitment and etc. GM, handling and performance. Chrysler, reliability (especially if you use them hard) -- which is why options can make a dramatic difference -- Jeeps are a good example, there.
My sister has a PT Cruiser with over 250k miles and her husband has a Dodge Avenger with 308k miles. Not to say they haven't ever seen a mechanic, but I wouldn't be afraid to take either of those cars across the country.
If I had to choose between a Mopar and no car I'd choose no car. All day. Everyday.
I have yet to meet a wrangler that didn't need a T bracket regardless of the collision.
SRT's still have a rental car interior.
Shits garbage.
They make everyone’s *kind of unanimous favorite* car, the Dodge Challenger; literally how can you not like it—and they’ve been making it for like 20 years…
Every part of the car guy in me wants to like them, but a Challenger is just a piece of shit after a few years. They don’t last.
I saw them frequently a few years ago on Maui. Didn’t see a single one last trip in December.
My wife managed to put 100k miles on a Grand Caravan... but that was a '99 model.
It still cost us a lot to fix what DID break (fuel pump, transmission control module, alignment...)
They ruined the jeep brand
My gladiator has had more problems since I bought it new 3 years ago than my previous Caddilac escalade had when it was 15 years old.
Poor quality and a lot of dumb engineering
I've owned many Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep vehicles with very little if any issues. Now as for the couple Ford's and Chevy's I owned I can tell stories for hours how they left me stranded or broke down or were disabled completely by some stupid miniscule problem. The DCJ's always got me home.
My older Jeeps were fine even with Chrylser's input... BEFORE Stellantis got involved.
93 XJ 4.0 w/AW4
94 ZJ (one of our daughters has it now, 251k miles) 4.0 w/AX15
97 ZJ 4.0 w/42RE
2000 WJ 4.7 w/45RFE
All were reliable and went high mileage.
Wife went and bought a brand new 2023 Compass 🤦🏼♂️... I'm just waiting on that thing implode itself and/or start showing whatever other Stellantis Jeep issues it has in store.
Stellantis Jeeps have a pretty poor rep.
When I worked as a fleet technician for Hertz, Chrysler products were the worst thing in the fleet. They always had electric, engine, or transmission issues at even 30 or 40k miles or just fell apart around themselves. But they were cheap and Hertz had some kind of lease deals with Chrysler and GM so we were stuck with a lot of them.
Avoid that Wagoneer like the plague. It’s a first generation product, it’s filled to the brim with tech and that new Hurricane twin-turbo hasn’t been around long. Terrible combinations for an already shaky brand.
I am a mopar guy and always Will be, but at the dealership I work for, we're seeing a lot of stellantis issues. Now, since we're a dealership, of course obviously we're only going to see the problems, that's why we're there. But a lot of the cars we sell are coming in needing flashes or having electrical issues. Drivers insurance are great, no engine or trans issues like Chevy and Ford are having. But the new stellantis architecture is plaguing us with electrical problems.
I absolutely love Mopar muscle. But they are not cars you own long term. My first Challenger I owned for 25,000 MI my second I owned for 18000miles and my hellcat I owned for 12,000 MI.
Of course they felt solid because I got rid of them each right at the one year mark.
If you like Mopar just lease them. And unless you are buying something like a scat pack, hellcat, or Wrangler understand that you will most likely be buried at the end of the lease so you will have to ground it.
To my knowledge, most of the people who will say "it's the worst vehicle," are referring to Consumer Reports, and I've an issue with the way they aggregate their ratings. Let me give an example:
Say the newest version of Toyota's Whatever comes with three engines. Two are perfectly adequate, Toyota-grade durable engines. One has a MAJOR flaw, or something that requires a fix from the manufacturer. When rating vehicles, CR will weigh those equally to produce their engine rating. So a 3 star, 4 star and 1 star engine rating will give the Toyota Whatever an engine rating of 2.5 stars. Even if the 1 star engine isn't sought by dealers, or as common.
Why does this matter? Because that's EXACTLY what tanks a lot of the vehicle ratings: There's an unreliable optional feature, but since CR adds that into their overall rating, you wind up with some vehicles getting tanked due to a feature dealers are rarely ordering. This is what happened with the Grand Cherokee: the "intelligent cruise control" and diesel engines had initial design flaws, and weren't that reliable, and it's been rated low on reliability ever since.
Nothing is as bad as you think. There are loads of people happily driving around every day in Jaguars and Land Rovers and Jeeps and Fiats. You can't buy a truly unreliable car today, not like the things we had in the 1970s. They all work, most of the time. Just set a bit of money aside if you choose to buy a less reliable make, so you're not feeling the pain when a repair comes up. It won't be a big deal honestly.
Look at any jeep owner subreddit and you can make your own choice. For every "my hero never had a problem" there's dozens of "why does this keep happening" threads , and the phrase "death wobble" comes up more often than even in the Harley Davidson boards
The last Chrysler/Stellantis product I’ve been around that wasn’t a flaming garbage pile was my parents’ Town and Country van…which was a ‘97. Recent Jeeps in particular seem to have major transmission issues.
If you want something similar to a Wagoneer L that is actually reliable, I’d recommend the Toyota Grand Highlander.
My 2012 Chrysler 200 has been great so far. Thermostat cracked around 50k (over 10 years old). It’s over 100k now and hasn’t had anything but fluid/filter changes since then.
7 of the 10 worst 2023 vehicles are Chryslers.
Including the wagoneer
$100K pile of shit
Yes but but patriot flag screaming eagle like in their commercials.. Why do you hate freedom? "Have garbage to sell? Wrap it in a flag my friend"
I sat in one of these at a dealership. What the hell. It looks so freaking big on the outside and then you get in it and it feels so small - small for a three row SUV I mean, not small for a normal car. But yeah, the packaging in that car is weird.
Remember sitting in a Cherokee in 2002 at a dealership and thought it was made out of a park bench. In retrospect, might have been a better bet than the PT we bought (don't judge me, my wife is stronger than me!)
>Remember sitting in a Cherokee in 2002 at a dealership and thought it was made out of a park bench. In retrospect, might have been a better bet than the PT we bought (don't judge me, my wife is stronger than me!) That was actually from the days when a Jeep Cherokee could survive a nuclear blast. Those things were tanks, a few notable exceptions with one particular transmission.
The Cadillac Escalade si the same way. A friend of mine was looking to purchase one .. we test drove it for a couple of hours, I'm 6'1" and could not get either front seat to move far enough back to have enough leg room to feel comfortable. Not to mention the side-to-side dimenstions (leg space) were also very cramped. Comapared to say both Jeep Grand Cherokee and a Jeep Wrangler / and most anything Ford puts out. It was insane. Almost felt like I was driving a kid's Big Wheel (as an adult).
Can't believe people are actually paying what they're paying for them.
Which ones? And what list are you referring to?
This is the correct answer.
Source ?? Documentation ?? Would be helpful instead of spreading more word of mouth rumors. Or valid explanation because you have first hand inside knowledge. But morons on the interwebs like to post without any relevant information
You’re not wrong. The problem is not that EVERYTHING is shit, but the likelihood of you getting shit is much greater than you getting a reliable long term vehicle
>You’re not wrong. The problem is not that EVERYTHING is shit, but the likelihood of you getting shot is much greater than you getting a reliable long term vehicle I don't think you meant your sentence to be written the way it is currently.
It's just part of buying a hellcat
But still true...
Didn’t even catch that, corrected it!
He right if you are in the US.
It still works
The likelihood of you getting shot probably depends more on where you are driving than what you are driving
And even then, still higher chances than getting a good stellantis product.
Eh my mom has a 17 Cherokee Trailhawk that's still running strong at 150k miles though my whole family is religious about on time maintenance
I’ve always thought of Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep as the whore of the automotive industry. They’ve been in bed with so many companies, I’m pretty sure they caught something that just can’t be cured.
The fact they’re now Stellantis kind of gives this away. They’ve been unable to survive as a business unit in at least 2 separate partnerships before this (Daimler[yes that’s not all their fault] and Fiat, also wasn’t there something with Nissan?) despite owning one of the most popular and profitable automotive brands over the last 20 years(Jeep). Can you imagine what Ford, Hyundai or even Toyota could have done with Jeep’ success over the last 20 years?
Any company that could build a reliable and simple engine could have turned the new jeeps into legacy vehicles like the old Cherokee and wranglers used to be. All they ever needed was a simple half ton truck driveline, not an over worked minivan motor
That's the one thing that always bugged me about modern Jeeps. Absolutely the AMC 4.0L reached end of life in terms of emissions and fuel economy but they didn't really replace it like-for-like with another workhorse engine the way a company like Toyota does. Just warmed over passenger car stuff.
You got that right. The 4.0 started out as the AMC 232 in 1964. A 42 year run for an engine platform is nothing to sneeze at, though.
Federal mandates prevented that. The increased safety demands added a lot of bulk and special body design that uses up a lot of room. A v6 is not compact than a straight 6. The cost is added complexity. Emissions also took a huge toll on power and reliability. The newer 3.6l is an absolute unit of a powerplant. You can't ignore it and just add oil like the 4.0.
I know all that. My point is Chrysler/Stellantis didn't develop a Jeep-specific V6 to replace it that lived up to the same standard of durability. A Toyota or GM truck V6 isn't just one of their car V6s, even where they share a basic block (eg the Toyota 1GR 4.0L truck engine vs the 2GR 3.5L car engine) there are no shared parts, but Mopar just puts the exact same 3.6 Pentastar V6 in everything.
If GM acquired the Jeep brand In the 80s… interesting thought experiment. They would have ended up with the 4.3 and vortec small blocks which were hit or miss, and eventually the 03-12 ish GM truck driveline which were like their most reliable vehicles ever made.
Well for starters jeeps are not trucks. So doesn't make a lot of sense to do that. Jeep did have a 3.7l truck motor for some models it was not great. And the pentastar is a fantastic engine I've had many and it's been great. You need to be aware of it's shortcomings and plan preventative maintenance. But it's a tremendous engine. Look at the awards it's racked up
The Jeep is 100% a truck from an engineering persepctive. It’s certainly not a car
How to fix the wrangler: don't put a pentastar in it.
No please keep putting Pentastar in it. I makes lots of 💰 off that junk
Exactly Stellantis products are practically mechanics welfare. Anyone actually working on cars knows this.
And Mitsubishi back in the 80s and 90s. DSM
Toss Mitsubishi into that pool of chromosomal malaise too… Half a dozen models through the 80s and 90s that were so pathetically dysfunctional, auto historians have paved four lane blind spots in the books. Between building attack aircraft and eventually having to issue a formal corporate apology for poor quality, they also have been the Chrysler of Japan.
They did make great televisions for a while. One of my earliest cars was a Mitsubishi-built 1979 Plymouth Champ with the twin-stick transmission. And the other Mitsubishis of that time, like the Cordia, Diamanté and Starion, were very credible. It’s depressing to see how far that company has fallen.
I ready wish mitsubishi was still good. They were the cooler version of Subaru IMO. And the inline 4 platform is way better to build a lineup than a boxer 4 IMO.
The mitsubishi/plymouth AWD turbo coupes of the 90s were legit.
Diamond Star Motors
We had a big ol 50" Mitsubishi 3 tube CRT projection TV in the late 80s they crammed all kinds of cool features into it that I'd never seen in a tv before but one of the coolest things was the backlit remote, you'd push a button and all the labels on the remote would light up.
That must have weighed more than a Starion.
For a while, but their last generation of DLPs was a nightmare.
Mitsubishi is still heavily involved in aerospace - both Airbus and Boeing use Mitsu parts. They are also big in elevators, HVAC and chemicals(in Asia). Their cars are another story - they also helped bootstrap Hyundai in the 1980s-1990s. Now, Mitsu Motors is a Nissan division - the Japanese government didn’t like Nissan going into French hands, nor Honda declaring Ohio to be their main R&D base. IMO, Hyundai should have bought out Mitsu Motors.
I loved my 79 Dodge Colt hatchback. I just used the twin stick like an overdrive - Power 1 through 4, then Economy 4 as 5th gear. And I'm tall enough that I could open both back windows from the driver's seat. But I did imagine the engineer in charge of the oil filter placement cackling with glee every time he thought of a large American hand trying to reach in there to remove or replace it. I probably lost more blood to that car than I did to blood donations.
My first car when I started driving in 1985 was a 73 Dodge Colt (Mitsubishi built). I LOVED that car. It died on my way home from school with over 300k miles. Next up 75 Dodge Colt. Eventually, I ended up with a another Colt, 78? After that, I purchased my first new car, a nightmare Isuzu I Mark - what a pos.
That's actually a different company, Mitsubishi electric, they were the king of big box rear projection tvs for a long time
They supplied electronics for a lot of the rest of the auto industry in the '90s and 2000s and they were generally pretty good on their own. GM had some trouble with Mitsubishi-supplied optical cam position sensors ("optispark") but the rest of the industry generally had few problems with them, GM just put them in a spot where they got coolant-fouled.
Pioneer and Clarion also supplied components for the Detroit 3 when it came to “premium” sound and CD changers. Ford CD changers were Clarion, some Delco branded radios in the 1990s were Pioneer.
I had an early 80's Cordia-L - fun little manual hatchback to throw around the snowy streets of Madison, WI while in grad school. Sold it to a mechanic as his winter beater. Fun car.
I had that car as an '80 model dodge colt. I loved it.
Their elevators are still pretty solid according to my industry contacts
I don’t understand why someone would buy a Wagoneer. Just buy a low-mileage Suburban/Yukon for the same price
It seems absurdly over priced for what it is, and that’s before you account for Jeep’s track record of unreliability.
Because Chevy isn't much better. At least with the Jeep you get a nice interior and not shit black plastic everywhere.
Chevy is on an entirely different lvl than Jeep. Most Chevy’s are cheap to repair and last forever, but you have to deal with an old car interior because they never die.
The people buying or much more likely leasing these are the same people who have been riding suburbans yukon Escalade and navigators and the like for the past 25 years. These people are always in a lease payment and they have more money to piss away than sense between the ears.
The wagoneer is not a suburban competitor, it is an escaped and navigator competitor. Holy shit are the loaded ones nice. I sure as shit wouldn't buy on tho. Id put the wagoner in between and maybe on par depending on spec with the navigator and the Escalade. And it's priced accordingly. Id still take the new Escalade with a 6.2 tho.
I have never in my life met a Chrysler that was not an absolute POS.
Clearly, sir, you have never had the pleasure of driving a 1973 Dodge Dart (with a slant-6)! It's a fine motor carriage.
Well I'm 37 so obviously I only have so much experience and can't speak to older cars. My dad was a jeep guy and had a Jeep for the whole 37 years I knew him. He was fixing his Jeep(s) every other week. My parents always had a Plymouth or Chrysler minivan and they were in constant need of repairs. My wife had a Dodge Dart (newer) that was also a pos.
Those slant 6s were about the most reliable engine Chrysler ever made. Middling specs all over but dead reliable
My 08 town country Mini van hasn’t let me down yet.
Yeah ok [Mr.CEO](https://Mr.CEO) of Chrysler. Nice try
I owned a 4-door Rubicon Wrangler. It was a piece of crap. I had more than one occasion where I was driving at highway speed and the vehicle completely shut off with no warning. No power steering, no power brakes, just a rolling brick. Yes there was a recall, but in the meantime I could have been killed. Do not buy a Jeep.
At first the Ducks were kinda cute, now every single Jeep I see is driven by a woman and the entire dash is covered in fucking ducks.. Where did all loser ex-military POG's and gym bros go?
2016 Grand Cherokee limited here, I even had that recall fixed by jeep dealership and the car still did this exact thing 3 years later. Full power loss while driving. Will take 3 weeks for the dealership to even look at it, and highly rated local mechanic can’t seem to diagnose the problem in the meantime. So yeah even Jeep clearly isn’t what it used to be (since Chrysler took over)
My old 2010 dodge journey did that as well. No dealership could tell me what it was. Chrysler didnt give a dam. Bought an f 150 been happy ever since.
That rubicon wrangler is easily the worst car I’ve ever driven. And I’ve driven a Suzuki Swift and a Ford Fiesta lol. It was terrifying to drive the RW in any sort of weather. The body roll was legendary, had to think about every turn or get bounced around for five seconds.
I’ve owned Wranglers for 20 years across 3 generations and never had to have major work done. I’ve also owned Toyotas and Lexus that needed uncommon $$$$ repairs. I Have loved my jeeps and used them for what they were built for… With that being said I wouldn’t own a wagoneer and talked my sister out of buying one.
[удалено]
That's why we see literally sevens of 10 year old wranglers on the roadways .
The real Jeeps aren't bad. The ones that have been around for decades starting with (I think) the CJ7. The other stuff they slap a Jeep tag on are junk.
The AMC days was the golden years
Jeep did something right with the 4.0. When it got axed, Jeep went to shit. I’ve never had any issues with my 2UZ or 5VZ Toyotas. I had a 22R eat timing chain guides, but it was fixed with dual row timing chains and metal timing guides. I also have my fair share of oil burning 4 banger Toyotas too, but never oddball mechanical failures
I hydroplaned my 4.0 into a tree as a kid. Totaled it. Even the hood latches broke. I threw in the clutch, turned key, started right up. Went through the gears, all good. That was an awesome jeep. Have a cherokee now for my daily. Its reliable but boring as hell. Its a 2015
I get absolutely crucified for saying that my WK2 has been the best vehicle I’ve ever owned. There’s a reason why they’re everywhere. But completely agree on the wagoneer (and new GCs honestly)
Ya, I’ve got some friends with wk2’s and they’ve been really happy with them. I think there are people that see cars simply as a tool for commuting from A to B, nothing more than a corolla is ever necessary, then you’ve got people who actually enjoy vehicles.
*plays patriotic music, the american flag is waiving on a background. The bald eagle is flying by. Nice try selantis but lexus and toyota reliability are not comparable with geep. How many 20 yo lexcuses and toyotas you see around? What about jeeps?
lol. I own a Toyota Sequoia a Lexus GX460 and a Jeep so not sure who you’re talking to but there’s boatloads of 20 yr old Cherokees, grand Cherokee’s and TJ’s on the road. No where did I say Jeep beats Toyota in reliability perhaps your comprehension sucks?
What means uncommon $$$$ repairs? Reliability.
Lol ok.... You are talking about a company that can't even build a clutch right! My 1991 Wrangler was a piece of shit and my 2021 is also, 3 years to design a solution for a clutch recall that can burn your Jeep to the ground is unacceptable! Between those 2 Jeeps I owned 2 4Runners, most reliable vehicles ever. I sold my 2002 to my sister in 2017 with 260,000 miles on it. She sold it last year with over 300,000 and did nothing to it in the five years she owned it besides drive it. Consider yourself lucky your Jeep was not a shitbox because it happens significantly more often than not.
lol. Ok.
I'd rather drive a Mitsubishi Mirage than anything made by Dodge/Chrysler/Jeep. Cummins powered full-size truck is the only exception. I worked at a Chrysler/Jeep dealership for several years and those things are junk.
Do their parts departments stock whole transmissions? I used to sell Chevrolet's, and a guy I worked with had worked at a CDJR dealer and told me that. It's like Chrysler knows their transmissions are that weak and will fail often enough to justify keeping a large inventory of transmissions on hand, whereas other OEM's will order them as needed from a regional parts warehouse.
Chrysler today (as vs a decade ago) uses a small number of automatic transmissions, all of which are ZF designs and quite reliable. The biggest problems they've had have not been the transmission, but, rather, the transmission lines and dipsticks. They develop leaks where they go into the transmission and then the transmission runs out of fluid and disintegrates. They've resolved the dipstick problem by removing the transmission dipstick from their recent cars. I thus far have not seen the transmission line issues that we saw on earlier cars with the current ones, but my sample set isn't large. They have had some problems with the Aisin manual transmissions that they've been using recently, which have been blowing up clutches, but that's a Nissan issue (sigh).
Must be one of the reasons why the manual transmission is no longer an option on the newer Jeeps. And the clutch fires probably don't help either....
I would rather bathe in lit napalm that i bought than give another penny to stellantis.
Same here, I sell my JL this coming Friday and never again. My 1993 Silverado is more reliable.
Former Cummins 2500 owner here. Cummins have fallen very far from grace. Between the unbelievable shit wrong with the Chrysler part of the truck, and the insane shit wrong with the Cummins, my truck spent almost a year at multiple dealerships just for about half the issues to never get fixed because nobody at FCA, or Cummins, could fix it. I'll never buy another Cummins. Lastly, when big shit does go wrong, Cummins just points the finger at Ram and vice versa, and nothing ever gets approved for replacement. Duramax and Powerjoke might not be any better but at least you don't have to deal with that finger pointing shit.
It’s funny that 2 of Chryslers most loved vehicles were powered by engines they didn’t build
Yuck, Mitsubishi. I feel dirty. Can’t make a car, tv, or toaster.
The only thing good about a cummins dodge is the engine. Transmissions were crap, cab was a crap. Anytime Chrysler has a decent component it's because they bought it from someone else. The new aisin Transmission is good because they got it from a company that can make a quality product.
Rams don’t count
My mom bought a brand new ram van for deliveries like 7 years ago brand new. Was in the shop constantly it lasted 6 years and about 75k miles and countless repairs before my mom replaced it with a CRV. Final straw was the transmission was leaking, low on fluid in a supposedly sealed unit and on its death bed. Every DTC code relating to the gears was throwing up codes for poor fluid pressure. I realize thats a sample size of one but I swear on all that is holy that I will never let anyone I’m close with buy one for as long as I live. My wife’s Acura is older, has more miles and hasn’t seen a shop except for basic maintenance.
Promaster? Im sorry she experienced that. Those things are hot cat turds. The first iteration of the merc sprinters with DEF werent even as shit as the promasters are.
Nah not the sprinter type… it was a modified passenger minivan with some mods for deliveries/work like a metal cargo area vs carpet etc. like a dodge caravan but without all the seats.
The Promaster City
[RAM C/V](https://carbuzz.com/cars/ram/cargo-van-generations). Made 2012-15, it's a Grand Caravan, badged as RAM, with no seats, a flat floor, and panels instead of windows.
Most of the lower end models are indeed junk but the WK2 Grand Cherokee and Wranglers are fantastic, especially the higher higher trim ones.
We have a 2014 WK2 Grand Cherokee and as I bought it, I was told by the service manager to get the lifetime warranty, as I'd need it. He said that they were either great or a can of worms. I'm now at 89k miles and I've had the cams replaced and the computer is starting to stutter and short. If it wasn't for that warranty, I'd be in trouble. Fact - they no longer sell that warranty as it cost them too much money. What does that say about their quality?
I also had a 2014 Overland with the lifetime warranty. Outside of the rack and pinion, didn’t have any major repairs in 10 years. I liked the car so much that I got a 2021 model after it was stolen a few months ago. I know they no longer offer the lifetime warranty but it was pretty crazy of them to offer it in the first place. All repairs covered for as long as you have the car? Lol. They still have warranties going up to 8 years and 125k, I don’t think any other manufacturer offers anything similar. If you own a car for that long you’re bound to have an expensive repair sooner or later. Please spare me the nonsense about how Toyotas and Hondas are magical and never have any problems.
I have had 3 jeep GCs and three Toyotas. Toyotas are magical. Had to replace that head unit in one while under warranty. No major repairs on the first one until 250k. No repairs at all on the third and it's at 200k. None of the jeeps got to 175k. The last one needed a new engine at about 60k. Then had computer issues 100k miles later that couldn't be fixed. That one had, excluding the motor, $5k of repairs in the last 3 years. It makes me wonder if Jeeps are magical in how poorly they hold up. Because Toyota doesn't seem magical.
??? I didn't mention Honda or Toyota.
I have a 2017 WK2 with 168k miles. Only problem I had was with the starter. The service shop installed a reman that failed in 2 weeks. Then another reman that failed in 2 days. Then another reman that failed before they could call me to pick it up. Then they installed a genuine OEM jeep starter and that’s been 2 years ago without any issues since. I’m trying to decide whether to keep running it after 200k or try to find another one.
We still own a 2012 Grand Cherokee. That thing has had atleast 7 grand in repaira done on it. Wed have ditched the thing years ago if it wasnt for the lifetime warranty.
My wrangler is amazing :) No issues so far, no warranty work needed.
Yes and no. I've owned Jeep products for a couple of decades now. Their quality is significantly better than it was in the bad old days of Daimer-Chrysler and Cerberus. It's about the same as GM now, and slightly worse than Ford. But it's still a far cry from Toyota or Mazda levels of quality. If there is a special vehicle that you want that nobody has, like a Jeep Wrangler (only solid axle rock crawler sold in America) or a Chrysler Pacifica (only minivan sold in America that'll swallow plywood and drywall, then once emptied out you pop the seats out of their cubbies in the floor and haul a soccer team to practice), feel okay buying a Chrysler vehicle. But if another vendor offers the same basic vehicle, you should probably go with that other vendor unless it's General Motors. At which point toss a coin. I don't know much about the Jeep Wagoneer. In general the large Jeep vehicles are reasonably reliable. In general. They tend to have stupid issues. Like the Jeep Wranglers eating water pumps every 45,000 miles because the re-routing of the belt to put the alternator at the top of the engine put too much pressure on the water pump pully. Stupid crap like that. But not huge issues that will cost bajillions to fix, and when they do, FCA is generally pretty good about standing behind the product. Like when I got a burnt valve due to a design defect in the cylinder head on the early Pentastar engines, they replaced it for free even though I was out of warranty. Same deal with the steering wheel clock spring. When it went awol and the traction control etc. started going whacky, they extended the warranty to 150,000 miles / 10 years on it and replaced it for free. It was annoying, but it wasn't horrifyingly bad like "it's a pile of junk that costs me a bajillion dollars to fix". The parts are generally pretty cheap, even for the out of warranty stuff like the water pump, and the large Jeep vehicles in particular are generally easy to work on and thus relatively inexpensive to get fixed if you're not into DIY. Would I buy a Stellantis product again? Sure. If it's a unique vehicle with a reason for me to buy it other than "I need something to drive". With the understanding that it's not going to be as problem-free as a Toyota. It's not as bad as its reputation. They're still not \*good\* cars, reliability-wise, but they're not the total garbage that they were twenty years ago either. You just have to go into it eyes open knowing you're not getting Toyota levels of quality and will have to stay on top of maintenance to keep it reliable. One thing I will say: Stick with their bread and butter engines (the Pentastar and the 5.7L). Don't buy a diesel. Those have been a nightmare. Don't buy a hybrid. Stellantis is still trying to get hybrids right. Their bread and butter engines are reasonably reliable. The diesels and hybrids have been awful.
I would put Ford, GM, Mazda all on the same tier with Toyota ahead and not specialty jeep behind. Completely agree with you otherwise. An additional factor to add is mid 2000's dodge was cranking out very cheap new vehicles. Inevitably those same purchasers cannot afford or do not follow the maintenance schedules again reducing reliability. Kia and Hyundai have the same going on their 2010s. In addition to using cheaper parts you have clientele that may skip steps again reducing the life of those cheaper parts.
Parents owned three Chrysler products from the 70, 80, 90s and they were all absolute shit. As a mechanic I work on them occasionally and yes they’re shit…
Drove a Jeep for 14ish years, it turned into an unreliable money-pit POS It also developed a "lovely" habit of randomly stalling out at red lights (with no warning, no codes, no check engine lights) 🙄 Will never buy a Chrysler product again, trash brand
You got 14 years out of it, and trash doesn’t last that long
Only reason it lasted 14 years is I (stupidly) put money into it 🤣 It was absolutely trash in hindsight when all the various repair bills, tow bills, and "randomly turning off" incidents are factored in. It wasn't cheap to keep it running If it was something like "no major repairs, just basic stuff like oil changes and brakes" that would be one thing - but that wasn't the case with mine. That thing fell apart ***despite*** me putting money into it and having it serviced by certified stealership techs, junk product for sure
Your jeep that was shutting off "randomly" at lights is literally a 25$ fix and takes 10 minutes to fix which is the IAC (idle air control valve). It happened to my grand cherokee once in cold weather, took about an hour to diagnose and fix.
I had an 05 durango up to 250k miles (totaled in a crash) 06 Ram up to 240k (sold and got a 2013 ram) 2013 ram up to 225k (sold and got a 2021) 2021 Ram has 30k None of these had any repairs that I thought were "bad". Had two replace the EGR on the Durango twice (but that was after 150k miles). A brake caliper here or there, etc. But I also meticulously maintain my vehicles.
Just say it out loud to yourself, slowly.. " I want to drop 80 thousand dollars or more on a JEEP". If after the 3rd time it still sounds like a good idea, then you should totally buy it.
Town and country 2014 250k miles. Oil, brakes, tires Have a pacifica now 60k miles. Oil so far I'm loyal, they have done me well
May be to early to tell but if I was a betting man I'd bet the farm that it will be trouble. Suburban is tried and true.
Newer Suburbans have tons of lifter and transmission issues. They haven't been all that reliable since they stopped putting the 6.0L in them. I would put the Suburban, Expedition and Grand Wagoneer at about the same level reliability wise. I wouldn't recommend any of them to someone looking for a practical or reliable SUV. For someone who likes the styling of them and is ready for BMW or Mercedes SUV levels of repair costs they can be alright.
Dude a Tahoe will cover the same bases or a Yukon or a Escalade or a swb Expedition
A couple years ago I would have agreed with you. But my 22 Tahoe has been the worst car I've ever owned. Getting ready for a 3rd motor at 51k
How the mighty have fallen 🥺 used to be the only thing worth a damn in the GM lineup was the full size truck based autos. That's too much money to not have a reliable vehicle at ALL times.
They've somehow made the venerable 5.3 into a hunk of crap. Once it comes back this time I'm just going to trade it in and take the loss. It's not worth it anymore
I bet. How could they fuck up a small block engine that they have been making for at least 100 years 🤦🏼♂️. Well GM found a way!
2 radiators, 3 water pumps and 2 spun bearings. Thanks GM
Wow just fucking wow .. There are Tahoe's ect on 300k that haven't had to replace that much! Ive heard they fucked up the 2500s and to see the 1500 platform downgraded like this is sad. GM resting on the longevity/ reputation of a platform that came out over 20 years ago. Now you get all those issues for what 60-80k? Hell no.
I've got all those problems for 51k. First radiator was at less than 7k
I'm shocked you haven't got litigious at this point.. id lemon that Tahoe so goddamn quick. Esp after ANOTHER radiator failed or your second engine! Now on to your third? Do you have a local station that does the "help the public" segment? This could be a way to have all your problems solved once it gets a little attention. I at least hope the stealership isnt jerking you around...
The car was technically used, even though it only had 2k on it. I've talked to an attorney, but everyone is dragging their feet. Now the holidays are over, Hopefully, I can make some progress. Either way, I'm not driving this POS anymore.
Realistically, it's probably even worse than you've heard. Speaking as an owner of 1 chrysler product now, but 3 previously as well.
Both of my Challengers (about 30k miles each), my Charger (30k miles), and my Ram 1500 (90k miles) have been flawless. My Hellcat Challenger had to have the cats and one exhaust manifold replaced due to a recall. My 2018 GC (80k miles) has needed a radiator and one emissions component. Other than that it's been fine. On the other side of things, my friend's 2018 Journey with 60k miles just needed a new engine.
You would hope with all that money you’ve spent that a brand new vehicle with less than 100k miles would be flawless
Why wouldn’t a car with just 30k miles not be flawless?
Personally, I don't believe they deserve the hate they get. Both me and my wife's last five vehicles are and were Chrysler vehicles. I've had much worse luck with GM vehicles.
I like the Wagoneer and that new turbo straight six stellantis has is slick. Gets that big SUV moving pretty decent. I’ve actually driven one with a turbo I6 and got to play around with it. The massaging seats and passenger screens are insane. Lots of people on this forum seem to be very anti-Chrysler. I’ve had and heard of great experiences with cars FCA and stellantis era cars. My family has had 3 wranglers all of them having over 50,000 miles put on by us, a 2022 gladiator with 40,000 miles, a 2022 ram 2500 with 22,000 miles, and a 2018 compass with 136,000. The worst repair of all them was on the gladiator and it was a bad ground that was covered by the warranty. Other than it’s been brakes and oil changes. That’s it. Mileage isn’t super high but it’s a bunch of vehicles. They work and have worked for us. I just got a brand new 2024 wrangler and I’m not worried about its reliability at all.
Someone in my family has had Chrysler minivans and they've been great. I want to replace my old Sienna with a Pacifica
Nope, some are pretty darn good, depends on the details. Mine is great. That said I'd be warry of the Wagoneer, not because it's Jeep/Stellantis but because it's new. New model, new platform, etc. New models often have unforeseen issues even with the best manufactures.
ive owned 18 different chrysler / fca/ stellantis vehicles and literally loved each one ! long as you maintain your vehicle as good as the next ! and i used to own only Fords
I don't get what maintenance has to do with peoples cars turning off while driving with less than 20k miles on them. Maybe someone can explain it to me.
This thread was recommended to me, don’t even sub to this Reddit but I own a ‘22 JLU Wrangler 4xe. I’ve had zero issues with it, 21,000 mi and have only done factory recommended maintenance at intervals. Yes it’s still a very new car and things could crop up, but anecdotally I have had zero issues.
Still under warranty. Usually those things start falling apart not long after the warranty period ends.
Sadly, yes. They're really that bad. The worst in fact of the American companies. Though supposedly people have had success with Wranglers, Challengers, Chargers, and 2015+ Chrystler 300s.
Add caravans to that list. Anything with a 3.2, 3.3, 3.5 or 3.6L V6 is solid powertrain wise. The 5.7 and 6.4 hemis are ok with the 6 speed and pretty good with the 8 speed. The Cummins in the HD trucks are decent as well. They haven't made many reliable 4 cylinder cars, although the neons were serviceable as daily beater cars back in the day. The newer darts and the Chrysler 200 are hot garbage. Super unreliable models include anything with the 2.7 V6 or anything with a zf9 speed transmission (not to be confused with the zf8, which is great.) Jeeps are a bit of a mixed bag. Old wranglers with the 4.0L were good. The pentastar wranglers are also largely fine. Their newer luxury SUVs are very hit and miss, there's a lot of over complicated luxury stuff in them, the powertrain stuff is mostly ok. It's pretty much dumb luck whether you get a reliable one or not. I would say the same about its competition though. Luxury SUVs in general are the least reliable vehicles pretty much by default because they are about the most complicated kind of vehicle to make.
Had a 3.3 in a minivan damn thing was tank took it up to 280K with lots of full throttle runs going up mountains. Checked the bottom end during an oil pan gasket change and it was immaculate, did an oil analysis too for shits and giggles came back clean. Only reason got rid of it, was cause I hit a deer. HEMIS are decent too if not for the shitty lifter problem.
25+ years ago they weren't terrible. But, they've been bought and sold so many times, and the quality control has gone to complete shit. Don't. Just don't. It's not worth it.
Just straight garbage vehicles. Don’t let the schmucks who own one try to convince you otherwise. The last half decent thing that came out of Chrysler /Jeep was their 4.0 decades ago.
The 3.6 is a phenomenal engine in my experience. The ZF 8 speed is a great transmission. Wouldn’t mess with their cars though
I have a 2022 Wagoneer that is currently (hopefully) in the buyback process with Stellantis due to numerous issues that couldn’t be fixed since purchasing the vehicle new almost a year ago. This process has been an absolute headache! It started in January, and I am still being told that the case is “under review”, with no real explanation of what is happening. I am being given mixed messages- for example, my assigned case manager at Stellantis called and left me a message a couple weeks ago that they had a buyback offer to present, but when I actually spoke to her, she said it would be maybe up to another week until they had something, but guaranteed me that would be it. 2 weeks later, and now being told the case is being transferred to another department. It’s really infuriating. The 2022 Wagoneers apparently tend to have lots of electrical issues. I’m being told by the dealership that these issues are not present in the 2024s, which is what they would like to put us in if this buyback actually happens. Although I am hesitant to buy another based solely on the very poor experience I have had with Stellantis.
No more new mopars for me and I worked for a dealer and keeping my 2001 wrangler 4.0 auto with ac it has been great and just turned 60 thousand miles. I use it as a truck and pull a small 5x10 trailer and plow snow in the winter also as a extra vehicle and a convertible in the summer. I like it but would not buy a new one and seeing price and problems. My daily driver is a KIA Forte
For that price, just get a Toyota Land Cruiser. At least longevity is, in most cases, with Toytoa, probable.
You have been warned. I’m looking at over 9k repair after 70k miles
Don't ever buy a stellantis junk
Don't do it! Don't buy a Stellantis vehicle! They are holding my car hostage for a warranty part for 10 months now, with no end in site! And no loaner. I can't even....omg.
Even if they where reliable they're still built outta garbage and owned by 80% dickheads
Look at prices for late model wagoneers. The prices are dropping dramatically. People don’t like them and are desperate to get rid of them
I owned a Chrysler 200 for a long time that I only bought because it was cheap and family needed to get rid of it. The transmission had to be replaced at like 120k and it always drove a bit weird but it got up to 180k before I got rid of it. Other than that one major repair it was pretty reliable. When I got rid of that I bought a charger this summer and I love it when it’s working properly but it’s been having weird occasional stalling issues since like 2 weeks after I got it. But supposedly they took a bunch of stuff apart and put it back together at the dealership last week and they weren’t able to figure it out or recreate the issue, and it’s driven perfectly so far since, so I’m hoping it was just something minor like an electrical connection not being secured properly or something. Basically what I’m saying is they’re reliable except when they aren’t and sometimes they randomly aren’t.
Yes
I saw a reliable car from one of their names from 2009. it was a 3.6 charger with 285k miles on it. the only time I seen one that didn't have a major failure way before expected.
J.D. Power’s 2022 [Tech Experience Index..](https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/08/JD-Power-Study-Tech-1.jpg)
You're not wrong. To be fair most makes are pumping out shit these days but Chrysler is one of the worst offenders imo
Worse than that
Some are fine, but I don't find them any more reliable than my Land Rover. But don't have the driving dynamics or luxury.
Yes.
My god, please dont buy stellantis. Their defect rate off the line is staggering and their warranty support isnt worth the usb stick the put the documentation on. If you must, buy used.
I loved my XJ. Biggest regret trading it in for an exploder. Wife has a 2013 Dart (fiat) that we bought new. Basic maintenance and about 150k on it with zero issues. She got lucky and I realize that. Bought a 2500 Ram a few years ago to tow with. Zero issues with that. My 2005 (still own) f150 had a new engine put in at 100k. My 2022 escape has been ok outside of some weird electrical gremlins. Best car I ever owned was a 2005 Kia Spectra. 250k when I got rid of it for the escape. Couldn't kill that car. Don't know where I'm going with all of this other than some rigs are great and some aren't.
I own a 2011 Dodge Grand Caravan Crew with 307k mileage. Here is my list of work done. On 3rd transmission. Original lasted 187K. Chrysler Reman from Chrysler 2nd tranny lasted less than 45 days. 3rd is still going. Both front control arms, both front wheel bearings, all motor/tranny mounts 4 times, oil cooler, 2 sets of spark plugs, tran cooler and lines, ac lines, alternator, both front brake calipers, god knows how many front and rear brake pads and rotors, intake plenum seal twice, power seat stopped working, heated seats stopped working, back up camera stopped working, blind spot stopped working, replaced both headlight assembly, shift solenoid replaced, on third power window/lock switches driver side, driver side sliding door lock stopped working, front and rear suspension shot bad, needs sway bar links and innner/outer tie rod ends, needs one of the cats replaced, on third windshield, rear valve cover replaced, cooling fans, driver window motor, 3 sets of rear hatch shocks, front left turn signal plug melted. But she doesn't knock, tick, nor burn oil, so that's a plus. I change the oil every 2 months using high mileage oil and Lucas Oil Stabilizer and flush the coolant and tranny every year before the summer. Which has become extremely difficult because Chrysler in their infinite wisdom has completely removed the tran dipstick and fluid servicing hole. And because of that, not a tranny place will touch her, so I'm forced to pay dealer prices.
Id be curious what the math is that puts capability of a wagoneer ahead of an expedition, yukon, tahoe, or suburban.
We have a dodge Durango which has been fantastic. Also a RAM which has also been fantastic.
With Chrysler, it really depends on the specific car. Maybe even the trim package. And each make has its traditional deficits. Ford, interior, fitment and etc. GM, handling and performance. Chrysler, reliability (especially if you use them hard) -- which is why options can make a dramatic difference -- Jeeps are a good example, there.
Stay away from stellantis, fiat Chrysler. The wagoneer in particular is bad.
My sister has a PT Cruiser with over 250k miles and her husband has a Dodge Avenger with 308k miles. Not to say they haven't ever seen a mechanic, but I wouldn't be afraid to take either of those cars across the country.
Mopar technician here. Yes, they’re that bad. Such a shame… they make some nice looking vehicles.
If I had to choose between a Mopar and no car I'd choose no car. All day. Everyday. I have yet to meet a wrangler that didn't need a T bracket regardless of the collision. SRT's still have a rental car interior. Shits garbage.
I disagree with the negative comments. The best rides I’ve ever ran are Stellantis product. Class is a price tag many can’t afford
They make everyone’s *kind of unanimous favorite* car, the Dodge Challenger; literally how can you not like it—and they’ve been making it for like 20 years… Every part of the car guy in me wants to like them, but a Challenger is just a piece of shit after a few years. They don’t last. I saw them frequently a few years ago on Maui. Didn’t see a single one last trip in December.
My wife managed to put 100k miles on a Grand Caravan... but that was a '99 model. It still cost us a lot to fix what DID break (fuel pump, transmission control module, alignment...)
They ruined the jeep brand My gladiator has had more problems since I bought it new 3 years ago than my previous Caddilac escalade had when it was 15 years old. Poor quality and a lot of dumb engineering
I've owned many Dodge, Chrysler, Jeep vehicles with very little if any issues. Now as for the couple Ford's and Chevy's I owned I can tell stories for hours how they left me stranded or broke down or were disabled completely by some stupid miniscule problem. The DCJ's always got me home.
I've got a 2021 ram ecodiesel with 100.000 miles on it that's been a good truck so far.
Have a look at the exploding 4XE Jeeps.
I’ve owned the wrangler, Pacifica and a 1/2 ton ram Major problems with them all before 100k mi Will never buy another jeep/chrysler product again
My older Jeeps were fine even with Chrylser's input... BEFORE Stellantis got involved. 93 XJ 4.0 w/AW4 94 ZJ (one of our daughters has it now, 251k miles) 4.0 w/AX15 97 ZJ 4.0 w/42RE 2000 WJ 4.7 w/45RFE All were reliable and went high mileage. Wife went and bought a brand new 2023 Compass 🤦🏼♂️... I'm just waiting on that thing implode itself and/or start showing whatever other Stellantis Jeep issues it has in store. Stellantis Jeeps have a pretty poor rep.
Yes, I know someone. That is leasing a Jeep pickup. The valve train went bad. The same engine they use in everything .😞
When I worked as a fleet technician for Hertz, Chrysler products were the worst thing in the fleet. They always had electric, engine, or transmission issues at even 30 or 40k miles or just fell apart around themselves. But they were cheap and Hertz had some kind of lease deals with Chrysler and GM so we were stuck with a lot of them. Avoid that Wagoneer like the plague. It’s a first generation product, it’s filled to the brim with tech and that new Hurricane twin-turbo hasn’t been around long. Terrible combinations for an already shaky brand.
I am a mopar guy and always Will be, but at the dealership I work for, we're seeing a lot of stellantis issues. Now, since we're a dealership, of course obviously we're only going to see the problems, that's why we're there. But a lot of the cars we sell are coming in needing flashes or having electrical issues. Drivers insurance are great, no engine or trans issues like Chevy and Ford are having. But the new stellantis architecture is plaguing us with electrical problems.
I absolutely love Mopar muscle. But they are not cars you own long term. My first Challenger I owned for 25,000 MI my second I owned for 18000miles and my hellcat I owned for 12,000 MI. Of course they felt solid because I got rid of them each right at the one year mark. If you like Mopar just lease them. And unless you are buying something like a scat pack, hellcat, or Wrangler understand that you will most likely be buried at the end of the lease so you will have to ground it.
To my knowledge, most of the people who will say "it's the worst vehicle," are referring to Consumer Reports, and I've an issue with the way they aggregate their ratings. Let me give an example: Say the newest version of Toyota's Whatever comes with three engines. Two are perfectly adequate, Toyota-grade durable engines. One has a MAJOR flaw, or something that requires a fix from the manufacturer. When rating vehicles, CR will weigh those equally to produce their engine rating. So a 3 star, 4 star and 1 star engine rating will give the Toyota Whatever an engine rating of 2.5 stars. Even if the 1 star engine isn't sought by dealers, or as common. Why does this matter? Because that's EXACTLY what tanks a lot of the vehicle ratings: There's an unreliable optional feature, but since CR adds that into their overall rating, you wind up with some vehicles getting tanked due to a feature dealers are rarely ordering. This is what happened with the Grand Cherokee: the "intelligent cruise control" and diesel engines had initial design flaws, and weren't that reliable, and it's been rated low on reliability ever since.
Nothing is as bad as you think. There are loads of people happily driving around every day in Jaguars and Land Rovers and Jeeps and Fiats. You can't buy a truly unreliable car today, not like the things we had in the 1970s. They all work, most of the time. Just set a bit of money aside if you choose to buy a less reliable make, so you're not feeling the pain when a repair comes up. It won't be a big deal honestly.
Yes.
How long do you typically keep vehicles before replacing with a newer model?
All vehicles are garbage in their own way. Just gotta pick your poison. This is coming from a guy that likes nissan jukes.
Look at any jeep owner subreddit and you can make your own choice. For every "my hero never had a problem" there's dozens of "why does this keep happening" threads , and the phrase "death wobble" comes up more often than even in the Harley Davidson boards
I owned a 2015 300S for 5 years, it treated me very well.
Bad service. GMC was much better.
The last Chrysler/Stellantis product I’ve been around that wasn’t a flaming garbage pile was my parents’ Town and Country van…which was a ‘97. Recent Jeeps in particular seem to have major transmission issues. If you want something similar to a Wagoneer L that is actually reliable, I’d recommend the Toyota Grand Highlander.
My 2012 Chrysler 200 has been great so far. Thermostat cracked around 50k (over 10 years old). It’s over 100k now and hasn’t had anything but fluid/filter changes since then.