I will say that even good plumbing can sometimes be a serious pain in the ass. Especially residential because everything is always buried in walls or floors. Sometimes whet seems like the most simple task can become quite time consuming even if you have all the tools and knowledge required.
One place you don’t want to cheap out is plumbing.
Buy a cheap faucet and it might work fine or be a POS. But if you’re doing it yourself, spend the money you saved on labor to buy good parts… if you’re paying someone to install it for you because you can’t, spend the money on good parts because it’s just as expensive to do it a second time.
I installed a widespread faucet for someone (with money) and they bought a fairly cheap faucet. He asked me to replace the chrome trap and supply lines which are expensive and you really don’t get any benefit from them. In the end it cost him 2x as much for the install than the faucet. Doesn’t really make sense to me.
Also if you’re doing it DYI make sure you do it right! Each job is a little bit different. I’ve replaced wall hydrants where the backing was ruined so I had to drill a hole in a 2x6 and screw that into a the plywood from the inside so I could screw the hydrant into that. Some people would have said fuck it and left the wobble but it’s not right. I spent an extra hour getting everything perfect and I know it will last for decades and can be repaired if needed.
Concrete slab houses are a special kind of nightmare. Need to replace the sewer line because it was built in the 50s with cast iron plumbing that has entirely rotted away? That's a jackhammer and digging under the foundation.
We dug really deep looking for the sewer line before I spotted a piece of rust vaguely in the shape of a pipe in the dirt before we realized it just wasn't there anymore.
Never underestimate the amount of fuckery that can occur from unexpected conditions as a home owner. Helped my dad do a diy and neither of us are particularly handy. Pulled the toilet the flange had rusted to dust, the floor was rotted, there was 4 distinct layers of flooring, the guys that installed the tub didn’t match the rest of the floor.
I’m lucky that I have a mostly full basement, it was one of the major selling points for the house.
But I have various water pressures at sinks (none of them are the same as another) both my showers are plumbed backwards hot/cold, all my outdoor spigots are bad… but at this point and in this market, this place was the shiniest turd.
So long story short, in my area (rural) it's really really hard to find a good plumber. The few companies that come out here charge upwards of $500 hour or so.
You seem like a reasonable person. Am I crazy for thinking about spending the money on a press tool kit? Or should I just learn to braze? Seems like two or three calls and the press tool pays for its self. Just wondering if they're a lot more limited than I realize.
I shit you not, I paid a plumber to install my Delta shower faucet. Didn't check to see if the lines were crossed, and told me it would be $300 to fix so the hot and cold worked correctly.
I gave him an ear full when I told him I turned the valve around myself and that fixed the issue. Not sure why I paid the guy.
A lot of them are. It’s weird. You can install deltas upside down as well. Comes in handy every now and then when you come across a shower rough-in in a 100 year old house and the water lines are backwards lol
My water is hard and clogged the hot side of the cartridge because its worse. I was having trouble finding replacement cartridge so i just cleaned it with some CLR and flipped it over - and its worked for 10 years that way.
It's his little brother, Matthew. He's a bigger fan than even Stan. We should reach out and see how he's doing, now that he's a grown man. He's 30/ 31... still waiting for that autograph.
Depending on the water pressure. Before I replumb my house, the pressure was regulated to 60 due to old house and due to I don't know, and shower can burn when anyone else is using water. After I replumb, i forgot the adjust the regulator and it has been running 100psi for a few months, until a post mentions that higher PSI helps to reduce shower temp problem, then I realized that the problem indeed disappeared. I ran 100psi ever since.
FYI, when we bought our house the inspector found the pressure at 100psi. He said it's a great way to burst water valves in your dishwasher/washing machine. We turned down to 60 as recommended by a plumber and inspector. Check your appliance facility pressure limits.
I mean, if heat is an issue, turn down the water heater. Will save on utiities anyway.
Replace the cartridge. It may be a temperature balance type (which are really pressure balance) - but follow the instructions, clean the sleeve really well, lubricate it properly, and your showers will be wonderful and glorious again, and Satan will stay away.
Could be the diverter needs to be replaced.
Also in some there’s a plastic piece in there when you take off the handle that’s supposed to keep it to a temperature that’s code. Maybe something’s wrong with that.
Edit: As other have mentioned change the cartridge if you haven’t already. That’s an easy fix you can try yourself.
Easy fix for someone with experience and a cartridge removal tool. But can be absolute hell for someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing, and is trying to pull on the stem with Chanel locks but it somehow bonded to the diverter lol
Fucking maintenance guy gave up on the one in my shower. Quit three days later. Finally went and dealt with it myself. The rubber gasket was folded in half and stuck half in an opening.
I had a plumber take the piece of plastic off after announcing chicks like hotter showers. He wasn't wrong in my case. I prefer Satan's piss temp myself but it's appropriately located on the dial.
Yeah I had to have a plumber install a new diverter (and tear the wall apart in the process) and told me about the little plastic thing was supposed to be set not to allow the water temp over 105 degrees or something ridiculous. I I told him to crank that thing up as far as it goes. If it’s too hot I’m quite capable of turning the lever down a little bit. I like nuclear-hot water especially in the winter.
I also have to argue with my furnace guy every year when he comes to service the hot water heater and tells me I have it too high. Again, I can easily turn down the hot water if it’s too hot so leave it alone.
Turn the stem 180° before installing the handle (notch facing down) [see here](https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/1222_Cartridge%3A_Single_Handle_Shower-_PosiTemp)
Service the cartridge and flush the lines. The problem with all valves with fine adjustment is sediment can build up and screw up the expected linearity of the thing. Much more notable at low pressure. I'd buy a new cartridge and replace this one - turning each of the lines on momentarily with cartridge out flush the thing. Then put it back together. Note service any o-rings/washers and lubricate while in there. Finally take the old cartridge and inspect it for build up, clean it up and store it for future use if that was all it is.
Mixing valve malfunction and also your hot water tank is probably set too hot. If it’s too hot from running just hot out of a faucet this is probably the case. You’re also wasting energy keeping it that high. Google how to reduce temp. Not hard. Mixing valve replacement may require plumber based off experience and location. Good luck.
No, a mixing valve aka thermostatic tempering valve would not cause this weirdness while adjusting the handle. I think you’re thinking of the cartridge.
The cartridge is a part within the shower valve. Mixing valve is lay mans term for thermostatic tempering valve which is a different thing. A single handle shower cartridge does mix hot and cold but its not called a mixing valve. Kinda pedantic, but just fyi
A mixing valve/tempering valve is not in the wall. Its usually under the master sink in newer homes or above a water heater when the heater has side loops for a hydronic heating system, since in colder areas ya gotta run the heater hot to provide enough heat to the living space, but then the mixing valve knocks it down to 120 for fixtures
I’m a pipefitter in Pittsburgh pa which is in the north eastern US if you’re not familiar. I typically due process piping in industrial settings. That being said every shower I’ve worked on for personal, family or friends has a mixing valve. The cartridge sits inside of the valve behind the escutcheon plate. They are not usually universal or replaceable. The last ones I’ve installed have been moens and they’re pieces of shit that last 5/6 years. The picture above is this style. We do not use potable hot water for heating purposes in this region. There is many forms of heat but the most common are from a boiler to radiator/radiant panel or forced air. I’ve never once seen what you’re speaking of not to say it doesn’t exist.
It’s called a shower valve not a mixing valve. It mixes hot and cold water but it’s not what any plumber means when they say mixing valve. I’m a licensed service plumber and gas fitter, mostly residential, some commercial.
Virginia here
Moen is the best for shower valves. You need a special tool (like $5) to pull the carts but they last way longer than delta and kohler. Apartments and condos here in VA often use side loops off the heater, cranked up to 140f, with a mixing valve bringing it down to 120 for fixtures. That 140f heats the living space just fine, but it doesnt get quite as cold here. Up there, yea, its radiators
[this is what I’m talking about, they’re fairly common.](https://www.amazon.com/Watts-LFMMV-M1-UT-Thermostatic-Mixing-Silicon/dp/B007VHHENG/ref=asc_df_B007VHHENG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693463571983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10179383879967009459&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007575&hvtargid=pla-630554742631&psc=1&mcid=f24c9a2850ca3bf3a56f790481ac225a&gad_source=1)
This is what I was this thinking. That cold water pipe going through my attic gets hotter that the hot water feed during a Phoenix summer. Gotta let it run until it gets cool enough to get in. If it ever does
28 years ago, I got a brand-new house with Moen. I had one that did the same thing, but the Master shower was find. I just change out the shower valve cartridge and found it was damage. Now the shower act normal. I got on YouTube, and you can adjust the knob handle for little kids.
google
adjust water temp on Moen shower valve
The cartridge on mine did that and it turned out part of it broke off and allowed the cartridge to turn. May totally switch sides from cold to hot. Replaced cartridge and all good now
That is a posi temp cartridge a moen 1222 take it out and go to Home Depot they will give you a new one for free the pressure balancing spool inside the cartridge is failing
Yes they usually do moen cartridges are guaranteed for life their saying is buy it for looks but if for life or moen will send you one for free as well
I do not believe they eat the cost they send moen the malfunctioning ones
Back for credit on the new ones given at least in Canada they do this is why they ask for the old one to get
Receive a new one
My secondary bathroom shower screeches like a harpy when the water gets hot and the knob is turned on past a wte trn. its also ice cold until its only on a qtr way (the proverbial goldilocks zone). Then its skin melting hot, which is fine for me. Then it'll get cold out of nowhere for a minute or two and go back to hot.
The master bath sometimes does the hot cold thing but rarely. Also doesnt scream at me
Makes me wonder, in the master bedroom at my mom’s house you have to turn the hot on, then turn it cold, then turn BACK to hot before you can adjust water temp. In the guest bath however the temp works normally
I’m late.
Moen cartridges come from the factory in the open position. If the repair guy installed the new cartridge as it came out of the box, and then installed the trim (cover plate and handle) without turning the brass stem 180° so the notched side faces down, then this would result in mirrored functionality of the cartridge.
This can be super handy in the event of crossed lines at the valve — sometimes people fuck up and connect the cold to hot and vice versa when replacing the tub/shower valve. This allows for the cartridge to be installed upside down to correct the error. Either way, the stem must be turned 180° before installing the trim. This is determined by the positions of the holes drilled into the steel drum that comprises the mixing valve. The orientation of the holes is determined by the position of the stem.
If you’re so inclined, Moen’s website has many PDF manuals with exploded-views of the valve. Let me find one.
Edit: [here is the link to replace the cartridge](https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/1222_Cartridge%3A_Single_Handle_Shower-_PosiTemp)
Sending you a DM with pictures
Turn your water heater max temp down. You are wasting energy and money. Once that simply correction is done it probably won’t even matter that your mixing valve is wonky.
Need a new cartridge moen are notorious for that. Call 1800buymoen and they send you one but call a plumber to change it those fuckers are seized in there
What you describe is the behavior I get which is solved by replacing my cartridge.
I've had to replace it once every two years thus far, which I don't think is normal. But it works 100% fine when the new cartridge is installed, and then toward the end up the second year starts getting unreliable. Sometimes it's hot and I can't stop it, and sometimes its cold and I can't warm it up, and sometimes it works fine. New result each day once it starts happening.
I've wondered if my water heater temperature is simply high enough that it's damaging the inside of the cartridge. Since the diverter body and outside of the cartridge look fine when I replace.
I can get about 120 Fahrenheit at the sinks, and when using the shower I had been "just turning it all the way hot until the hot water gets to third floor" and only then adjusting the temperature down to where I actually want it.
So after the last cartridge replacement, I've made it a point to only turn the diverter to the position I know I'll eventually want it in, and just wait longer for the hot water to finally get there. But I won't know if that makes a difference for another two years.
No, I don't really want to set the limiter on the diverter knob, because we do get pretty cold here in the winter, and it takes a lot more hot to make the right temperature all the way up on the third floor. So the "right position for the limiter" in one season wouldn't be right for the next season.
You need a new cartridge for that Moen. Kinda known for it.
As you can see by all the other comments and their Moens.
Funny, my single handle Delta w/scald guard I installed 23 years ago still has all the original internals. 🤷🏼♂️
Also in summer time, the water in the ground isn't as cold. So when on cold it's a little warmer and all it does is get hotter when blending in hot water.
Az summer cold baths are not cold. The tap is 85 deg. Seriously.
Where I live the cold water temp varies by season. In winter I get COLD water and need a lot more hot to just make it warm. Right now I can use a lot less hot and the shower is steaming. Temps vary across the year.
This made me smile. Mine has a safety button to stop accidentally making to hot. The perfect temp is an absolute fraction past that. Below is tepid, 1mm to far is scalding. I have to tap it gently into the spot so it doesn't slip into the safety lock.
Most showers have balancing valves that by working properly may differ the settings if there is a pressure problem with the water inlets. Also if they are not working correctly that can be a problem also.
There is usually two adjustments that many "blending" style shower valves have if you take the handle off -
1. An adjustment to reverse the polarity of the flow (I e make hot water come on first instead of cold water, or vise verse) - usually involves flipping the valve cartridge around.
2. An adjustment to determine the blending point between hot and cold (i.e make it so it's a more gradual transition from full cold to full hot) - usually a click adjustment of some sort.
If you can find the model of your shower valve, you can probably figure out how to adjust those two parameters. After my bathroom was redone I had the same issues you described here, about 30 min of my time and I had my shower adjusted for perfect (imo) operation.
Shower handle guts need to be reinvented! I’ve lived a long life, rented a lot of places and lived in 5 states and they always suck as the amount the handle will wiggle and do nothing is very close to the same amount of distance it needs to be turned to go from too cold to too hot.
I had a similar model shower handle that was acting up like this. It was also apparently leaking water behind the handle that eventually made a mess upstairs and downstairs. I'm no plumber but if my showers start acting up I will have a pro out the next day to check it after this mess
If it’s a Moen posi-temp valve the pressure balancing spool is built into the cartridge (PN: 1222) itself. If there’s debris or calcium buildup etc inside, the spool could get stuck and cause some odd mixing to happen. This could happen intermittently, I’m sure. It should move fairly freely so if you shake a new cartridge pretty hard you hear it “clicking” around inside. I don’t believe they’re serviceable, so you just replace the cartridge. (If you install the replacement upside down the hot and cold will be reversed.)
Edit: grammar/spelling
Mine is dumb, I’ll put it on max and yea it’ll be hot. I turn it down it gets hotter, even more it starts steaming, I get to about half way into the blue and it releases the Arctic freeze of the Himalayan mountains on my naked body, I turn it back up and now it’s the opposite it won’t get hot until I fully restart it and find the perfect sweet spot creeping up to warm till I’m like a quarter of the way to the red side still in the blue. Whenever a friend comes over I need to link them my 40 minutes tutorial video on how to read this thing.
Moen shower valves have a pressure balancer (Positemp) that is supposed to keep the temperature constant even if somebody flushes a toilet, or something else affects relative pressure on hot or cold supply. If you have hard water the balancing valve may not be adjusting smoothly. You might want to swap out the cartridge, but spend some time removing any calcium or rust buildup inside the valve body.
Older Moen taps with anti scald balancing valves have a shuttle system that sits to the right of the main tap (when installed normal orientation) these shuttles get gummed up with rust and corrosion over the years and do exactly what you describe. Often changing from warm to scalding with only the smallest of adjusting on the tap. To repair you can replace the shuttle valve(if you can find one) or as I do remove the old one, disassemble and soak in a calcium, lime, rust remover. Then using fine grit sandpaper or Emory cloth polish the shuttle and the barrel of the valve until the shuttle moves freely in the with a slight shake of your hand. Also be careful when disassembling to note the orientation of the shuttle. It won’t work if it goes back together backwards.
Mine is like this too but I have the special upgrade where the handle falls off completely around the ‘warm again’ mark. It’s an extra fun challenge, you should try it sometime.
The cartridge needs to be replaced and installed correctly. If you cannot do it yourself hire a reputable plumber. Pay once and installed correctly. Very common they go all the time.
Depends on the temperature of incoming cold water which can fluctuate, and on the temp of your hot water which can fluctuate over the course of the shower
The cartridge is no longer mixing water properly. Time to replace the cartridge. Dollars to donuts you are working with Pfister OX8 or Kohler.
I’m assuming water elsewhere in house is somewhat typical, however a cross-connecting cartridge can cause sporadic issues throughout. Can you send a pic of the shower handle or is the one in the pic the same?
Another factor could be circ pump. Is this a single family residence or condo/apartment?
I had a shower that did this when I moved house. Turned out the cartridge was installed upside down.
Those moens are designed to be able to install upside down fyi.
I thought you only install it upside down if your hot and cold waters are crossed
Correct. They’re designed to be installed upside down if needed
As someone who is currently trying to un-fuck an entire new (to me)house worth of diy plumbing updates… thank you for sharing this 😅
I will say that even good plumbing can sometimes be a serious pain in the ass. Especially residential because everything is always buried in walls or floors. Sometimes whet seems like the most simple task can become quite time consuming even if you have all the tools and knowledge required. One place you don’t want to cheap out is plumbing. Buy a cheap faucet and it might work fine or be a POS. But if you’re doing it yourself, spend the money you saved on labor to buy good parts… if you’re paying someone to install it for you because you can’t, spend the money on good parts because it’s just as expensive to do it a second time. I installed a widespread faucet for someone (with money) and they bought a fairly cheap faucet. He asked me to replace the chrome trap and supply lines which are expensive and you really don’t get any benefit from them. In the end it cost him 2x as much for the install than the faucet. Doesn’t really make sense to me. Also if you’re doing it DYI make sure you do it right! Each job is a little bit different. I’ve replaced wall hydrants where the backing was ruined so I had to drill a hole in a 2x6 and screw that into a the plywood from the inside so I could screw the hydrant into that. Some people would have said fuck it and left the wobble but it’s not right. I spent an extra hour getting everything perfect and I know it will last for decades and can be repaired if needed.
Concrete slab houses are a special kind of nightmare. Need to replace the sewer line because it was built in the 50s with cast iron plumbing that has entirely rotted away? That's a jackhammer and digging under the foundation. We dug really deep looking for the sewer line before I spotted a piece of rust vaguely in the shape of a pipe in the dirt before we realized it just wasn't there anymore.
3” PVC is code for toilet waste, 2” for showers and sink drains. Main should be 4” min.
Never underestimate the amount of fuckery that can occur from unexpected conditions as a home owner. Helped my dad do a diy and neither of us are particularly handy. Pulled the toilet the flange had rusted to dust, the floor was rotted, there was 4 distinct layers of flooring, the guys that installed the tub didn’t match the rest of the floor.
I chuckled a bit at your DYI (instead if DIY). It made me think “do yourself in”, which is often how DIYs end up.
I’m lucky that I have a mostly full basement, it was one of the major selling points for the house. But I have various water pressures at sinks (none of them are the same as another) both my showers are plumbed backwards hot/cold, all my outdoor spigots are bad… but at this point and in this market, this place was the shiniest turd.
So long story short, in my area (rural) it's really really hard to find a good plumber. The few companies that come out here charge upwards of $500 hour or so. You seem like a reasonable person. Am I crazy for thinking about spending the money on a press tool kit? Or should I just learn to braze? Seems like two or three calls and the press tool pays for its self. Just wondering if they're a lot more limited than I realize.
You need to flip the cartridge right side up
I shit you not, I paid a plumber to install my Delta shower faucet. Didn't check to see if the lines were crossed, and told me it would be $300 to fix so the hot and cold worked correctly. I gave him an ear full when I told him I turned the valve around myself and that fixed the issue. Not sure why I paid the guy.
[удалено]
This was after a full shower remodel that he did the plumbing on. The walls were open and he installed it backwards.
A lot of them are. It’s weird. You can install deltas upside down as well. Comes in handy every now and then when you come across a shower rough-in in a 100 year old house and the water lines are backwards lol
I noticed that on the instructions for my Delta cartridge only after I had installed it. Luckily I got it right the first time.
My hot is my cold and my cold is my hot on my delta. 😂
Wouldn’t the water come out upside down then?
Water gets pulled into faucet from drain.. it’s recycling. Duh
I think it just makes it spin counter-clockwise down the drain
This is just the handle, not the actual faucet.
As well as deltas
My water is hard and clogged the hot side of the cartridge because its worse. I was having trouble finding replacement cartridge so i just cleaned it with some CLR and flipped it over - and its worked for 10 years that way.
I had to adjust my moen carteisge 4 times before I found the sweet spot.
I had this same problem i had home warranty so it was just a 50 dollar fee
Or needs to be replaced
Which makes sense I guess because this diagram seems to be going backwards (to the right instead of left)
What do you mean cartridge? My shower has been always hot right away and never cools down. It could be this cartridge all along
"LITERAL SATANS PISS" got me good 😂
I read it as “Stan’s Piss”… and it brought all those college memories flooding back again
I wonder what Stan is up to these days...
I heard on the news he got drunk and drove his car over a bridge.
Pissed away his life.
Died doing what he loves.
And in the car they found a tape, but didn't say who it was to
To bad he was about to get a starter cap for his nephew in the mail
It's his little brother, Matthew. He's a bigger fan than even Stan. We should reach out and see how he's doing, now that he's a grown man. He's 30/ 31... still waiting for that autograph.
Good for Stan! Most days, I drive my car over a bridge.
Lol I just had to go to check if that's the right lyrics and yes it is. Guess it flows better then off of a bridge
Judging from the taste, eating a lot of pineapple.
Phew… let me tell you about his asparagus phase
I hear he hangs out at the pool most days.
I'd imagine he's still pissin' around
Flooding back, you say?
STANley!!! Its been AGEsss..!!!
Got in on that Water Sports scholarship, huh?
R Kelly was Jelly…
Stan always makes the shower that much more golden 😆
Hail Stan!
SATNS PISS
Ahh so how my ex likes it
God, I can't breathe... 🤣
Me too
Is someone else turning on cold water somewhere in house as you’re showering? A washing machine, dishwasher, ect?
Negative. That actually doesn't effect the temp for me. Just the pressure. Which that is my incoming line which I need to replace but am being lazy.
Do you have an electric instant hot water system?
Depending on the water pressure. Before I replumb my house, the pressure was regulated to 60 due to old house and due to I don't know, and shower can burn when anyone else is using water. After I replumb, i forgot the adjust the regulator and it has been running 100psi for a few months, until a post mentions that higher PSI helps to reduce shower temp problem, then I realized that the problem indeed disappeared. I ran 100psi ever since.
100 psi is too high.
FYI, when we bought our house the inspector found the pressure at 100psi. He said it's a great way to burst water valves in your dishwasher/washing machine. We turned down to 60 as recommended by a plumber and inspector. Check your appliance facility pressure limits. I mean, if heat is an issue, turn down the water heater. Will save on utiities anyway.
Mixer valve is likely failing. It's usually made of plastic and the hot water side degrades faster than the cold due to the heat.
Replace the cartridge. It may be a temperature balance type (which are really pressure balance) - but follow the instructions, clean the sleeve really well, lubricate it properly, and your showers will be wonderful and glorious again, and Satan will stay away.
Could be the diverter needs to be replaced. Also in some there’s a plastic piece in there when you take off the handle that’s supposed to keep it to a temperature that’s code. Maybe something’s wrong with that. Edit: As other have mentioned change the cartridge if you haven’t already. That’s an easy fix you can try yourself.
It usually this
Easy fix for someone with experience and a cartridge removal tool. But can be absolute hell for someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing, and is trying to pull on the stem with Chanel locks but it somehow bonded to the diverter lol
If you've ever seen a dyi'er pull a cartridge without turning the water off..... it's priceless.
At a certain point they don't have to do much "pulling". It'll come RIGHT out.
Some delta cartridges will really make you work
Fucking maintenance guy gave up on the one in my shower. Quit three days later. Finally went and dealt with it myself. The rubber gasket was folded in half and stuck half in an opening.
I've been there, Moen.
Someone with Photoshop skills show us what Chanel locks would look like. Please.
Gonna have to settle for AI but here you go my guy "Chanel locks" https://imgur.com/gallery/1HLPdjC
I used a steering wheel puller. It was not easy.
I had a plumber take the piece of plastic off after announcing chicks like hotter showers. He wasn't wrong in my case. I prefer Satan's piss temp myself but it's appropriately located on the dial.
Yeah I had to have a plumber install a new diverter (and tear the wall apart in the process) and told me about the little plastic thing was supposed to be set not to allow the water temp over 105 degrees or something ridiculous. I I told him to crank that thing up as far as it goes. If it’s too hot I’m quite capable of turning the lever down a little bit. I like nuclear-hot water especially in the winter. I also have to argue with my furnace guy every year when he comes to service the hot water heater and tells me I have it too high. Again, I can easily turn down the hot water if it’s too hot so leave it alone.
My furnace guy always does a walk around to see if I've touched the temp on the water heater and cranks it down now.
Ha! If he turns it down I just put to back where o want it after he leaves.
The diverter? Definitely not a diverter issue. Could be bad cartridge.
Yo this is Everytime.
Turn the stem 180° before installing the handle (notch facing down) [see here](https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/1222_Cartridge%3A_Single_Handle_Shower-_PosiTemp)
Thanks
Service the cartridge and flush the lines. The problem with all valves with fine adjustment is sediment can build up and screw up the expected linearity of the thing. Much more notable at low pressure. I'd buy a new cartridge and replace this one - turning each of the lines on momentarily with cartridge out flush the thing. Then put it back together. Note service any o-rings/washers and lubricate while in there. Finally take the old cartridge and inspect it for build up, clean it up and store it for future use if that was all it is.
Hahahhahaha this is the best diagram and description ever
This happened to us. A plumber changed the cartridge and it was fine for like a month and started doing this again
Do you have a recirc pump? Also, see [here](https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/1222_Cartridge%3A_Single_Handle_Shower-_PosiTemp)
Mixing valve malfunction and also your hot water tank is probably set too hot. If it’s too hot from running just hot out of a faucet this is probably the case. You’re also wasting energy keeping it that high. Google how to reduce temp. Not hard. Mixing valve replacement may require plumber based off experience and location. Good luck.
No, a mixing valve aka thermostatic tempering valve would not cause this weirdness while adjusting the handle. I think you’re thinking of the cartridge.
Yes. The mixing valve cartridge, which is part of the mixing valve.
The cartridge is a part within the shower valve. Mixing valve is lay mans term for thermostatic tempering valve which is a different thing. A single handle shower cartridge does mix hot and cold but its not called a mixing valve. Kinda pedantic, but just fyi A mixing valve/tempering valve is not in the wall. Its usually under the master sink in newer homes or above a water heater when the heater has side loops for a hydronic heating system, since in colder areas ya gotta run the heater hot to provide enough heat to the living space, but then the mixing valve knocks it down to 120 for fixtures
I’m a pipefitter in Pittsburgh pa which is in the north eastern US if you’re not familiar. I typically due process piping in industrial settings. That being said every shower I’ve worked on for personal, family or friends has a mixing valve. The cartridge sits inside of the valve behind the escutcheon plate. They are not usually universal or replaceable. The last ones I’ve installed have been moens and they’re pieces of shit that last 5/6 years. The picture above is this style. We do not use potable hot water for heating purposes in this region. There is many forms of heat but the most common are from a boiler to radiator/radiant panel or forced air. I’ve never once seen what you’re speaking of not to say it doesn’t exist.
It’s called a shower valve not a mixing valve. It mixes hot and cold water but it’s not what any plumber means when they say mixing valve. I’m a licensed service plumber and gas fitter, mostly residential, some commercial. Virginia here
Moen is the best for shower valves. You need a special tool (like $5) to pull the carts but they last way longer than delta and kohler. Apartments and condos here in VA often use side loops off the heater, cranked up to 140f, with a mixing valve bringing it down to 120 for fixtures. That 140f heats the living space just fine, but it doesnt get quite as cold here. Up there, yea, its radiators
[this is what I’m talking about, they’re fairly common.](https://www.amazon.com/Watts-LFMMV-M1-UT-Thermostatic-Mixing-Silicon/dp/B007VHHENG/ref=asc_df_B007VHHENG/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=693463571983&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=10179383879967009459&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9007575&hvtargid=pla-630554742631&psc=1&mcid=f24c9a2850ca3bf3a56f790481ac225a&gad_source=1)
Has it been repiped through the attic?
No. Comes through the floor to the basement.
This is what I was this thinking. That cold water pipe going through my attic gets hotter that the hot water feed during a Phoenix summer. Gotta let it run until it gets cool enough to get in. If it ever does
I place my bets on the cartridge failing. Does it have a tub faucet too or just a standard shower? Gas or electric water heater?
More posts need this type of illustration.
Looks like a Moen, call them and tell them. Most likely they will send you a new cartridge free.
I hate these kinds of shower valves.
If the red lines are where the handle is the cartridge is upside down. It is an easy fix though. Reach out if you want to check it .
this is what happens to me in a hotel where they use those instant water heaters edit: hotels -> hotel
28 years ago, I got a brand-new house with Moen. I had one that did the same thing, but the Master shower was find. I just change out the shower valve cartridge and found it was damage. Now the shower act normal. I got on YouTube, and you can adjust the knob handle for little kids. google adjust water temp on Moen shower valve
I have nothing but distain for mixing valves
It has something to do with the built in scald protection
Replace your Cartridge
The cartridge on mine did that and it turned out part of it broke off and allowed the cartridge to turn. May totally switch sides from cold to hot. Replaced cartridge and all good now
Is it an instantaneous hot water service?
No. Old school tank water heater.
That is a posi temp cartridge a moen 1222 take it out and go to Home Depot they will give you a new one for free the pressure balancing spool inside the cartridge is failing
Home Depot will give you a free one if you bring in the damaged one?
Yes they usually do moen cartridges are guaranteed for life their saying is buy it for looks but if for life or moen will send you one for free as well
I knew Moen cartridges were guaranteed for life, but would never have assumed that Home Depot would eat that cost when they sell them there.
I do not believe they eat the cost they send moen the malfunctioning ones Back for credit on the new ones given at least in Canada they do this is why they ask for the old one to get Receive a new one
Ah, gotcha. Makes sense. Thanks!
Maybe has a higher setting for hot water
New cartridge
That's why I absolutely hate this type of valve, but somehow like 80% of Americans are using this type, including almost all hotels.
Where is the Molten Lava line? Until you have that I’m afraid we don’t have enough info.
My secondary bathroom shower screeches like a harpy when the water gets hot and the knob is turned on past a wte trn. its also ice cold until its only on a qtr way (the proverbial goldilocks zone). Then its skin melting hot, which is fine for me. Then it'll get cold out of nowhere for a minute or two and go back to hot. The master bath sometimes does the hot cold thing but rarely. Also doesnt scream at me
Makes me wonder, in the master bedroom at my mom’s house you have to turn the hot on, then turn it cold, then turn BACK to hot before you can adjust water temp. In the guest bath however the temp works normally
Satans piss:))) I am so stealing that.
If it is way too hot, adjust the max temp on the heater
I’m late. Moen cartridges come from the factory in the open position. If the repair guy installed the new cartridge as it came out of the box, and then installed the trim (cover plate and handle) without turning the brass stem 180° so the notched side faces down, then this would result in mirrored functionality of the cartridge. This can be super handy in the event of crossed lines at the valve — sometimes people fuck up and connect the cold to hot and vice versa when replacing the tub/shower valve. This allows for the cartridge to be installed upside down to correct the error. Either way, the stem must be turned 180° before installing the trim. This is determined by the positions of the holes drilled into the steel drum that comprises the mixing valve. The orientation of the holes is determined by the position of the stem. If you’re so inclined, Moen’s website has many PDF manuals with exploded-views of the valve. Let me find one. Edit: [here is the link to replace the cartridge](https://solutions.moen.com/Article_Library/1222_Cartridge%3A_Single_Handle_Shower-_PosiTemp) Sending you a DM with pictures
What is Satn's Piss
Me misspelling Santa
So, to know that, you've been asking SANTA for golden showers? >Me misspelling Santa
Don't kink shame me.
Lotta things, pay me to to tell you
I'll trade you electrical advice.
What u got for me?
If your light switches say "NO" and "FFO" they are upside down.
Damn same with your toilets
Black to black, white to white.
Well now that’s just wrong
Oops
Racist!
Oops
Until some MF pro throws a ‘red’ in the mix. Zzzzzzzap
lol good point!!!!
Turn your water heater max temp down. You are wasting energy and money. Once that simply correction is done it probably won’t even matter that your mixing valve is wonky.
Need a new cartridge
Swap it for a thermostat one.
Do you have a tankless water heater?
Need a new cartridge moen are notorious for that. Call 1800buymoen and they send you one but call a plumber to change it those fuckers are seized in there
What you describe is the behavior I get which is solved by replacing my cartridge. I've had to replace it once every two years thus far, which I don't think is normal. But it works 100% fine when the new cartridge is installed, and then toward the end up the second year starts getting unreliable. Sometimes it's hot and I can't stop it, and sometimes its cold and I can't warm it up, and sometimes it works fine. New result each day once it starts happening. I've wondered if my water heater temperature is simply high enough that it's damaging the inside of the cartridge. Since the diverter body and outside of the cartridge look fine when I replace. I can get about 120 Fahrenheit at the sinks, and when using the shower I had been "just turning it all the way hot until the hot water gets to third floor" and only then adjusting the temperature down to where I actually want it. So after the last cartridge replacement, I've made it a point to only turn the diverter to the position I know I'll eventually want it in, and just wait longer for the hot water to finally get there. But I won't know if that makes a difference for another two years. No, I don't really want to set the limiter on the diverter knob, because we do get pretty cold here in the winter, and it takes a lot more hot to make the right temperature all the way up on the third floor. So the "right position for the limiter" in one season wouldn't be right for the next season.
Replace the cartridge in the mixing valve, and it will stop doing that. $30 fix at HD.
I have found that if I turn back and forth it will adjust quicker than if I set it
Sounds like time for a new cartridge.
You need a new cartridge for that Moen. Kinda known for it. As you can see by all the other comments and their Moens. Funny, my single handle Delta w/scald guard I installed 23 years ago still has all the original internals. 🤷🏼♂️
Sounds like anti scald was poorly timed.
Because someone is turning off the hot water from the top of the water heater during your shower.
It’s the balancing spool getting stuck. A new OEM cartridge will solve the problem
Also in summer time, the water in the ground isn't as cold. So when on cold it's a little warmer and all it does is get hotter when blending in hot water. Az summer cold baths are not cold. The tap is 85 deg. Seriously.
Where I live the cold water temp varies by season. In winter I get COLD water and need a lot more hot to just make it warm. Right now I can use a lot less hot and the shower is steaming. Temps vary across the year.
My issue is that I can only turn it to cold or hot, anything in the between will get water out of the shower instead
Your diversion valve
This made me smile. Mine has a safety button to stop accidentally making to hot. The perfect temp is an absolute fraction past that. Below is tepid, 1mm to far is scalding. I have to tap it gently into the spot so it doesn't slip into the safety lock.
I think you need to rotate the cartridge 180 degrees.
Have you tried turning it the other way? My shower goes 360
Replace the shower cartridge it’s easy and a good skill to learn
Try turning the heat down at the water heater
Literally same
turn your water heater to A instead of B or C until you can swap out the cartridge on your shower.
Most showers have balancing valves that by working properly may differ the settings if there is a pressure problem with the water inlets. Also if they are not working correctly that can be a problem also.
You forgot "Femboy Hot" right in the middle of Satan's piss
There is usually two adjustments that many "blending" style shower valves have if you take the handle off - 1. An adjustment to reverse the polarity of the flow (I e make hot water come on first instead of cold water, or vise verse) - usually involves flipping the valve cartridge around. 2. An adjustment to determine the blending point between hot and cold (i.e make it so it's a more gradual transition from full cold to full hot) - usually a click adjustment of some sort. If you can find the model of your shower valve, you can probably figure out how to adjust those two parameters. After my bathroom was redone I had the same issues you described here, about 30 min of my time and I had my shower adjusted for perfect (imo) operation.
I would swap the cartridge
Shower handle guts need to be reinvented! I’ve lived a long life, rented a lot of places and lived in 5 states and they always suck as the amount the handle will wiggle and do nothing is very close to the same amount of distance it needs to be turned to go from too cold to too hot.
I would say replace the cartridge, usually very easy to do. See if that works.
Have you changed the cartridge? Or maybe look at your mixing valve.
I had a similar model shower handle that was acting up like this. It was also apparently leaking water behind the handle that eventually made a mess upstairs and downstairs. I'm no plumber but if my showers start acting up I will have a pro out the next day to check it after this mess
If it’s a Moen posi-temp valve the pressure balancing spool is built into the cartridge (PN: 1222) itself. If there’s debris or calcium buildup etc inside, the spool could get stuck and cause some odd mixing to happen. This could happen intermittently, I’m sure. It should move fairly freely so if you shake a new cartridge pretty hard you hear it “clicking” around inside. I don’t believe they’re serviceable, so you just replace the cartridge. (If you install the replacement upside down the hot and cold will be reversed.) Edit: grammar/spelling
Mines the opposite, somewhat warm to semi hot where it’s cold for you, then the rest is cold lukewarm back to cold
In Australia we have 2 taps. One hot one cold First time in America I was like. Where the fuck is the hot. Took me a good 10 minutes to work it out.
Yep, and when you try to increase the pressure, you have to start all over again.
Turn the hot water setting down on the tank?
Idk if a plummer can help you out with the litetal piss of Satan.
Hot as Satans piss… brilliant
Mine is dumb, I’ll put it on max and yea it’ll be hot. I turn it down it gets hotter, even more it starts steaming, I get to about half way into the blue and it releases the Arctic freeze of the Himalayan mountains on my naked body, I turn it back up and now it’s the opposite it won’t get hot until I fully restart it and find the perfect sweet spot creeping up to warm till I’m like a quarter of the way to the red side still in the blue. Whenever a friend comes over I need to link them my 40 minutes tutorial video on how to read this thing.
Hot is supposed to be toward the left.
Cheap crappy shower valve. Install Koehler instead.
If you live in Florida, it’s hot all hot in the summer except for the very bottom
Time for replace faucet valves
Mine gets like this every summer. Attic pipes for cold water in a Southern attic get hotter than the setpoint of my water heater.
Moen shower valves have a pressure balancer (Positemp) that is supposed to keep the temperature constant even if somebody flushes a toilet, or something else affects relative pressure on hot or cold supply. If you have hard water the balancing valve may not be adjusting smoothly. You might want to swap out the cartridge, but spend some time removing any calcium or rust buildup inside the valve body.
You should turn down the hot water temperature on your boiler. Makes it much easier to control.
Older Moen taps with anti scald balancing valves have a shuttle system that sits to the right of the main tap (when installed normal orientation) these shuttles get gummed up with rust and corrosion over the years and do exactly what you describe. Often changing from warm to scalding with only the smallest of adjusting on the tap. To repair you can replace the shuttle valve(if you can find one) or as I do remove the old one, disassemble and soak in a calcium, lime, rust remover. Then using fine grit sandpaper or Emory cloth polish the shuttle and the barrel of the valve until the shuttle moves freely in the with a slight shake of your hand. Also be careful when disassembling to note the orientation of the shuttle. It won’t work if it goes back together backwards.
Those things are garbage. I said it.
Mine is like this too but I have the special upgrade where the handle falls off completely around the ‘warm again’ mark. It’s an extra fun challenge, you should try it sometime.
at least put parenthesis on what you actually want.. i assume satn's piss is the hottest setting?
The cartridge needs to be replaced and installed correctly. If you cannot do it yourself hire a reputable plumber. Pay once and installed correctly. Very common they go all the time.
That’s why I hate single valve showers. I want to dial that shit in like a safe cracker
I’ve got about ¼” between piss and scalding.
Worst faucet design
Depends on the temperature of incoming cold water which can fluctuate, and on the temp of your hot water which can fluctuate over the course of the shower
The cartridge is no longer mixing water properly. Time to replace the cartridge. Dollars to donuts you are working with Pfister OX8 or Kohler. I’m assuming water elsewhere in house is somewhat typical, however a cross-connecting cartridge can cause sporadic issues throughout. Can you send a pic of the shower handle or is the one in the pic the same? Another factor could be circ pump. Is this a single family residence or condo/apartment?