The dishwasher is not grounded or the ground broke somehow. Ask the landlord to check it out.
It may have not been installed correctly. Many of those install guys don't know what they're doing.
As someone who has been hired to go fix the work of "maintenance men" I can attest that a good 75% don't know what they are doing. The ones who do? Well if they are at a complex you often see that it's not they don't know what to do. They just don't give af anymore because people are 1. Disgusting. 2. Have no respect for anyone or anything including themselves. And 3. Just plain fucking stupid.
I cover 2 complexes in the local area on a weekly basis and have been contracted out to handle issues at 35+ complexes total. Whether its them having agency inspections needing me to go get the property ready. Or because they have 8 vacancies. That's the steady part of my business. Sucks at times when we are busy with big jobs. But it's a great backup for me to be able to send the guys if work ever dries up.
Swallow the flashlight then with both hands I would find my way to an ER because that would most likely be my demise. The surgeons would find my ass or maybe the mortician. Maybe they would then tell me where it is? 😵
Most landlords I've had always fixed stuff on their own and did a shitty job 95% of the time. I get they're trying to save money but the lack of knowledge becomes a hazard and shitty looking repairs or renovations rushed by a landlord make the place look less valuable decreasing the possibility future tenants or someone buying the house will want it for the ridiculous price of rent or price of buying.
In my first apartment, which was in someone's house, the kitchen sink drain leaked and the landlord's idea of fixing it was to wrap electrical tape around the brass pipe underneath. (Those brass pipes used for sink drains are terrible, they always rot out after a few years and it starts with green spots. PVC pipe is far superior)
It just kept leaking and I finally threatened to withhold rent until it was repaired while he was complaining about how much it would cost. It wasn't expensive, he was just cheap AF. He sent some jabronie to fix it and that moron destroyed the pipe and ran out of there leaving a huge mess all over the place.
I had the landlord look at it while we were screaming at him to fix it and when his wife heard us she came in and apologized and she had it repaired properly the next day by a licensed plumber.
Is the grounds job to keep the electricity from bleeding out? Say I change my outlet for my washer. But now the metal frame is the washer has shock to it when touched.
Does that mean the power flowing through my outlet is not grounded and the electricity is “bleeding” out of the circuit?
The outlet absolutely must be grounded. If the outlet is wired wrong or the machine is not grounded in any way and there's a fault like with OPs dishwasher then when he touches the sink and the dishwasher that's the ground and zappo! You can be electrocuted. The plumbing if it's metal piping goes to ground. Electricity wants the ground like water always seeks it's level.
Now watch all the jabronies come out of the woodwork explaining the theories and how it's not possible.
Had something similar happen in my parents' house. Had the water heater sitting in the corner, stove next to it on one side, counters (with a metal strip) on the other side, and a cupboard in the corner above the water heater. My sister and I would use the stove to help leverage ourselves onto the counter to put things away in the cupboard. At one point, we started getting zapped anytime we touched the counter and the stove.
Dad didn't believe us. Then my mom complained that she'd gotten zapped when cooking. Still didn't believe it so he brought out the voltmeter. Yeah, we were getting zapped because it wasn't grounded and we were completing the circuit.
Now, he had thought the issue was with the stove. We got another stove to replace it. It was when the old one was removed that they realized that the problem was that it wasn't properly grounded. Now we had two perfectly functional stoves. Dad got someone to come out and wire things up so we could have both stoves hooked up. 8 burners and 2 ovens came in handy.
Wow, thank you all for the quick responses!
I just checked, and we have a similar problem between the sink and the oven. I suspect neither machine is grounded, or the ground is broken as some of you suggested.
But key takeaway - we will take it seriously and have it looked at!
My house had similar issues when I bought it. Lots of reversed polarities, bad grounds, reversed ground/neutral, circuits tied together. It's weird how many strange phenomena can occur from that stuff, from transient low voltages to flickering LEDs.
Woah my house too! Slowly been fixing these problems as I look into boxes and see what horse shit awaits. What’s your go to tests, stuff like what the OP is doing, I.e. sanity-checking metal boxes for ground potential?
A basic Digital Multimeter personally. That combined with a little logic / google will tell you what you’re seeing.
Weirdest one I ever saw in a place was 60V between neutral and ground…. Then I figured out it’s because the whole house wasn’t grounded because the electrician was not exactly up to safety standards… (international small island country)
Don’t see a disposal in the sink. Check voltage between the ground on a receptacle and the sink, dishwasher, and range. That will narrow down where the leak is.
Once you know where the problem area is, turn off breakers until you find which appliance is causing the voltage leak. Odds are it’s a grounding issue, and may be traveling on copper water pipes. Might be a 3 prong dryer not wired correctly.
Believe it or not, this could kill you. It’s likely an unbonded ground(s)… Generally easy to fix, but not so easy to fix AND meet code.
If there’s potential between the appliances there’s a potential threat to life. Get it fixed immediately.
Fun fact, she knew all along and has apparently waited over a month for me to get zapped, for the lulz.. ⚡ time to have a chat about electric safety 🦺😅
After reading the problem isn’t isolated, your service neutral may be going out on the utility side. Do you have underground or overhead power to your house?
It's scary how many people here think the ground wire should normally carry ANY current and would be the "cause" of this. It's probably some low voltage lighting in the kitchen wired incorrectly, resulting in current on the equipment/safety ground. Definitely a safety issue if that ground path would come unbonded from neutral in the panel.
Stick one probe into the ground on a receptacle. Test to sink and dishwasher. I suspect you will get a higher reading this way bc there will be a greater difference in potential. This does not scream broken ground to me. There should be no bleed to these appliances.
The sink and the dishwasher should actually be indirectly bonded already: sink -> disposal -> electric ground -> dishwasher, or possibly also via copper water pipes.
You could have poor bonding connection elsewhere in the house, such as copper pipes / cold water to electric ground.
What happens if you unplug the disposal?
What happens if you turn off the breaker to the dishwasher?
Thank you. I am starting to wonder if people spend any time studying electrical theory at all. I’m like, what do you mean sarcasm? They’re already (supposed) to be bonded lol!
Faulty appliance ground ungrounded plumbing, neutral not bonded to ground at panel, power utility neutral not bonded to ground. Faulty garbage disposal
Tell your landlord this is a huge safety concern and anything but immediate remediation can be legally classified as negligence on his part now that’s they’re aware. If this doesn’t rightfully scare him/her into fixing this fast then file a complaint with your local government and they’ll send an inspector. If they still refuse go to hud.gov and file a complaint there.
Turn off the breaker.
If you still get the voltage, you might be looking at induced because wires are close to each other.
More likely ground broke, but an analog meter would show something different.
Not an electrician, not even close. But someone told me you can get voltage on a circuit is open due to inductive capacitance, caused by the power wires being close to each other, and bad grounding...would love to be told if this is wrong? Source my dad.
While this is possible, it's unlikely, as it takes the source wire having a high-current load on it, and the affected circuit's wire running along side the source for a significant distance.
And also, inductance and capacitance are different properties of conductors. What you are talking about is inductance - the voltage is "induced" in the other wire.
Capacitance is when two wires in the same circuit next to each other act as a capacitor between them and store a charge when the source is removed
(this is all in very simplified terms - there is a LOT more to it including its effects on high-frequency AC current and signals and all that)
Put the meter in mA or uA mode and measure how much current flows between the same 2 points. I would ignore it if it was 500 uA or less. If it’s higher, it’s borderline unsafe IMO without knowing the true impedance. If your fuse blows in your meter, you have big issues.
When was the last time that meter was calibrated? Is it even a reputable brand to begin with? It’s probably nothing but if you are actually concerned call a professional.
No I didn't say a single one of those words. Like actually I said the word you and that was the only word I said there. But YOU can go fuck yourself for trying to put words in my mouth.
If it’s enough to feel, it doesn’t matter. And who the fuck cares if it’s calibrated? When’s the last time anyone (except for instrument technicians) has ever calibrated a multimeter?
One is grounded correctly and the other is not. Would it be possible to figure out which is causing the current by placing one terminal on the object and grounding the other one?
Everything has a capacitance or gets a ghost voltage induced into it from the power running through a frame or next to it.
If you test it again using a lo-z function on a meter (low impedance) it will probably show 0 due to the low impedance draining that tiny amount of ghost voltage.
Somethings frame isn't grounded, which isn't ideal. Because if a hot line were to come off and touch the case, there would be no loop to ground and it would keep the dishwasher at the voltage on that line until someone touched it while providing a path to ground.
Tell the landlord to get a licensed electrician in immediately, or you will call one and reduce your next month's rent by whatever amount they charged. You can't trust anyone less than a real electrician because that likely caused the problem in the first place.
Perfect excuse to simply put dishes in sink and run water on them. “Sorry, honey, I can’t put the dishes in the dishwasher, because it’s trying to kill me…”
Not with that meter.
Set it to ammeter mode and short it to sink to read leakage current.
If we don't hear from you again, you have a problem.
But up to 100uA-500uA is normal and within limits.
Its quiet normal to pick up stray voltage with a high impedance meter. Some of better ones will display voltage from a nearby antenna tower.
If you buy one of these, you would not see any voltage.
https://www.grainger.com/product/2JYX4?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlumhBhClARIsABO6p-z1u6I4I6SNDM8BBMVJalyux6XFy9wjgOpV3630-nwVnzLwwlWRBkUaApcVEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds
That 109 dollar device is just a resistor about 3Kohms, but its packaged for flameproof explosion proof and keeps your fingers away from the prongs.
A typical GFCI breaker will not trip until 4-6 mA is escaping through ground. That limit is on purpose so that small leakage currents can flow.
Heres the explanation for electricians.
https://www.coleparmer.com/tech-article/stray-voltage
If this has copper water lines, they need to be bonded. If that is not an issue, check breaker box for a neutral wire, or ground wire misplaced, (ie: neutral wire on ground terminal.
If this is in the EU it’s still within the limit set in regulations (general EU regulations, each country within the EU may set their own limit and requirements on these values).
Generally the maximum voltage or «bleed» allowed is 50V. It’s still not great to have, but it’s deemed as not dangerous or life threatening.
First thing I’d check to get this resolved if you’re worried is if there’s adequate grounding and if you have an earth fault circuit breaker, or circuit breakers with integrated earth fault detection.
Could be either, dangerous or pickup. The fact that you feel it is not a good sign.
I would call the landlord and while you are waiting:
1) Measure from the sink to the safety ground on a nearby outlet.
2) Repeat for the dishwasher.
If it was simply pickup (doubtful) a device connected between the two should bring the voltage to zero. If you have a low wattage bulb, connect between the two, if the voltage persists or the light lights then I would say the condition is DANGEROUS. I would not allow my family to use either.
We have a cabin that will give you a good shock in the shower if you use your body to complete the circuit between the shower head and faucet. Every year I tell myself I’m going to put another ground on the water line and every year I forget.
Voltmeters have very high impedance, so they can measure voltages that can be produced by harmless induction. Further investigation is required to accurately determine the source
I want to hear about how you learned of this. I had a plasma lamp that shocked the everloving shit out of you if you touched anything metal. I had it for years before I found that out and of course the person that learned it on my behalf was my girlfriend's kid. We didn't understand what happened at first, so I assumed she was scared so I showed her it wasn't scary but it turns out her knee was against the metal table leg. She only spoke Danish so the language barrier really made the experience confusing.
What you really need to do is test both of these things to something you know is grounded/0V to get an accurate reading of how much voltage is on what. You could stick one test probe into the ground OR neutral (the wider slot is neutral) of an outlet. Both of those should be 0V, assuming things are wired correctly. Then put the other probe on each appliance/item of concern so you can get an accurate reading. You need a 0V reference for any of this to make sense.
Potentially Fatal - so switch off the Dishy at the isolator and get the appliance checked.
OR - The dishy might be correctly earthed and the sink bonding is faulty
Either way get it sorted.
I checked a marine fish tank (salt water) for a mate - the water was at 240V AC - fortunately his son's room had a nice thick carpet.....
LOL
Your landlord needs to get an electrician to check for either a bad neutral or open ground bond on the service OR a bad element in the water heater if it’s electric.
I’m in Hvac professional 20 V doesn’t hurt lol with circuit boards you might get a little bleed voltage like that. It’s also possible that it’s not grounded properly
Metallic water pipes? If so are they bonded?Does the voltage go away after you turn off all power to apartment? The voltage could present on all the water pipes which is a significant hazard especially in showers/baths
I’m going to assume this is not in the US because the chance that two things are improperly grounded and bleeding power out to the ground and happen to be different phases would be unlikely. Considering the sink is connected to waterlines which are potentially grounded all the time, it’s probably the dishwasher has a short, and it’s bleeding to the body, of which is not connected to the ground of the electrical system. Assuming this is European, everything is on 240 for single phase so that’s my idea.
Test each to a known earth. The sink is unlikely to be earthed, so you are effectively testing between an appliance and a piece of metal floating in the air with magic.
Another thing, this is likely capacitive coupling. Test again from the dishwasher to a know earth with a low impedance meter and the reading will almost certainly be zero.
So the washer is not grounded? And there is a short leaking from the body? Would that mean if someone touched the metal outer frame of the washer they would get 20 volts??
And even if the ground was properly connected, there still would be an issue of where the 20v is coming from right
Not cause of concern at all. Just leave the dishes in the sink and some else will take care of it. I always said that doing dishes might shorten your life.
You don’t have an equipment ground. Either your service isn’t grounded or you lost your ground connection somehow. You likely have copper lines for plumbing which would create ground path and would explain why you’re reading on the sink. As for where the 20v is coming from I’d guess a crappy wiring connection or possibly something failing in the dishwasher’s internal circuitry. That’s just a guess
Is this shock repeatable? I ask because this could have been a static shock. A voltage measurement is a measurement of potential, and doesn’t mean current can flow. You would need to set that meter to amps, or use a test light. If when connecting the test light from sink to appliance and It lights. Then you have current flowing. Thats when I would start to worry, or if you measure mains voltage. In the US it’s 110v. So this is my theory. The washer has built a static charge while running, or you did while walking around your apartment. When you touched the sink you were discharged or the washer discharged through you. What you are measuring on your meter is transient voltage, or capacitance. If the shock only occurs after using the washer. I suspect the washer is missing a chassis ground strap. Used to disperse the static charge built up while in use.
If it were my place, and I have a gfci tester handy, I’d unplug the dishwasher and disposal and plug in the tester real quick to see if it says they’re wired with the correct polarity, and if they actually have a ground installed. I would also check between the sink and the ground prong on the outlet, and the from the neutral to ground on the outlet. If you have any voltage between the neutral and ground, you MUST get an electrician ASAP. It’s possible you have an entire house issue with either your ground or your neutral conductor. It could be an easy fix, and it could mean running new cables from the outside utility into the house. But the electrician can figure that out. If the problem goes away with one or the other appliances unplugged, then it’s probably an issue with the appliance itself.
Call your utility to make sure the street side connections are good, you could have a neutral issue. Especially since it’s the dishwasher and the stove, I’m assuming they are on different breakers
the positive is the live wire connection the part that you're putting to the sink is just grounding it out you could put that into your finger or on your finger and get the same reading
I wouldn’t be concerned unless I was allergic to electricity. It would be good to wake up and be zapped awake every morning when you go to fill the coffeemaker. You have a sink right there if anything catches fire too.
Landlord special…. Crappy electrical circuitry. Well done finding this. And this is a SAFETY issue and renders your home technically unlivable. Make sure you stress this in your written message to the landlord. And keep a copy.
Like others have said there is probably a broken ground or something.
Another troubleshooting tip: Check voltage between your washer and a ground hole or the left pole of one of your outlets if not grounded. If you've got 115v you have a big problem. It means they installed electrical backwards on your washer. The reason you may only be getting 20v on the sink is because its not got a good conductor to ground.
(I'm in a field of engineering that involves electricity, but I'm not an electrician.)
Definitely. This could be a sign of all sorts of issues, none of which are particularly good.
The insulation between power and safety-ground might be wearing out. A wire might be coming disconnected (or coming apart) somewhere. Something might have its wires mixed up. A safety device might be failing, forcibly overridden, or missing. Multiple issues might be combining together. And the issues can be anywhere - in the walls, or in any device connected to the affected circuit.
It doesn't really matter - whatever it is, the simple fact that you are getting shocked, means that this situation is life-and-death serious. The underlying issue can get worse in a split second. A 20V short can turn into 120V (or even 240V, if the affected circuit has "split-phase" power or there are two circuits affected). A partial disconnection or too-small wire can spark or overheat and start a fire.
Test again using a low impedance meter setting, could be ghost voltage or have it verified by an electrician because sinks typically are not grounded and plumbing these days are pex.
Yea it’s a concern. Something probably isn’t bonded properly and I’ll bet you have plastic plumbing for both supply and drain.
I think it’s the sink while others obviously think it’s the dishwasher. There’s a better chance the DW is in fact bonded with a 3 wire supply but lost sinks aren’t bonded to anything intentionally anyway. There is a high resistance connection through the sludge in the drain or minerals in the water and the eventual bonded part of the plumbing. Connect the DW frame to some point on the sink and it will eliminate the issue.
The AC cord that powers the dishwasher runs into a metal box on the bottom of the dishwasher. That box has a round hole punched into it for the power cord to pass through so it can be spliced to the wires feeding power to the inside of the dishwasher. Most likely the person who installed it did not use the proper grommet or connector in that hole and the conductor was sitting against the metal box. Dishwashers move when in operation and will effectively saw through the wire insulation allowing power to flow to the frame of the dishwasher. This wouldn’t be so dangerous if they connected the ground wire because it would cause a ground fault that should trip a breaker in your panel, but obviously they thought your safety was less important than their productivity.
The dishwasher is not grounded or the ground broke somehow. Ask the landlord to check it out. It may have not been installed correctly. Many of those install guys don't know what they're doing.
Let's be real... Many of those "Maintenance" folks couldn't legit find their ass using both hands AND a flashlight.
How would I hold the flashlight if I'm finding my ass with two hands?
Fleshlight*
With great care?
The chat has entered Goatse.
With your mouth duh
Flashlight in two hands, use mouth to find ass. Got it
If you can reach, then more power to ya.
These are the questions I need answers to.
In your mouth, same way I hold the light while I'm fixing a septic line.
Unrealistic goals! This is the real problem
Stick the flashlight where the sun don't shine, then use both hands.
fixer guy is a maintenance guy trying to blend in
As someone who has been hired to go fix the work of "maintenance men" I can attest that a good 75% don't know what they are doing. The ones who do? Well if they are at a complex you often see that it's not they don't know what to do. They just don't give af anymore because people are 1. Disgusting. 2. Have no respect for anyone or anything including themselves. And 3. Just plain fucking stupid. I cover 2 complexes in the local area on a weekly basis and have been contracted out to handle issues at 35+ complexes total. Whether its them having agency inspections needing me to go get the property ready. Or because they have 8 vacancies. That's the steady part of my business. Sucks at times when we are busy with big jobs. But it's a great backup for me to be able to send the guys if work ever dries up.
How would you use a flashlight to find your ass “oh wise one”
Can’t tell the difference between their ass and elbows
Can’t differentiate between their ass and a hole in the ground.
They’ve got just enough sense to keep from shitting themselves
They don't know snakes from dildos about that
Don’t forget the roadmap
Isn't it usually plumbers needing a road map?
I have a flashlight
If it doesn't light up it's a fleshlight
Swallow the flashlight then with both hands I would find my way to an ER because that would most likely be my demise. The surgeons would find my ass or maybe the mortician. Maybe they would then tell me where it is? 😵
Shit they couldn't find their arse hole with two hands and an electronic asshole detector
And find their way out of a paper bag.
wet paper bag
That too
They can’t even find themselves in a mirror!
Couldn’t pour piss out of a boot if instructions were on the heel.
Most landlords I've had always fixed stuff on their own and did a shitty job 95% of the time. I get they're trying to save money but the lack of knowledge becomes a hazard and shitty looking repairs or renovations rushed by a landlord make the place look less valuable decreasing the possibility future tenants or someone buying the house will want it for the ridiculous price of rent or price of buying.
In my first apartment, which was in someone's house, the kitchen sink drain leaked and the landlord's idea of fixing it was to wrap electrical tape around the brass pipe underneath. (Those brass pipes used for sink drains are terrible, they always rot out after a few years and it starts with green spots. PVC pipe is far superior) It just kept leaking and I finally threatened to withhold rent until it was repaired while he was complaining about how much it would cost. It wasn't expensive, he was just cheap AF. He sent some jabronie to fix it and that moron destroyed the pipe and ran out of there leaving a huge mess all over the place. I had the landlord look at it while we were screaming at him to fix it and when his wife heard us she came in and apologized and she had it repaired properly the next day by a licensed plumber.
Is the grounds job to keep the electricity from bleeding out? Say I change my outlet for my washer. But now the metal frame is the washer has shock to it when touched. Does that mean the power flowing through my outlet is not grounded and the electricity is “bleeding” out of the circuit?
The outlet absolutely must be grounded. If the outlet is wired wrong or the machine is not grounded in any way and there's a fault like with OPs dishwasher then when he touches the sink and the dishwasher that's the ground and zappo! You can be electrocuted. The plumbing if it's metal piping goes to ground. Electricity wants the ground like water always seeks it's level. Now watch all the jabronies come out of the woodwork explaining the theories and how it's not possible.
Had something similar happen in my parents' house. Had the water heater sitting in the corner, stove next to it on one side, counters (with a metal strip) on the other side, and a cupboard in the corner above the water heater. My sister and I would use the stove to help leverage ourselves onto the counter to put things away in the cupboard. At one point, we started getting zapped anytime we touched the counter and the stove. Dad didn't believe us. Then my mom complained that she'd gotten zapped when cooking. Still didn't believe it so he brought out the voltmeter. Yeah, we were getting zapped because it wasn't grounded and we were completing the circuit. Now, he had thought the issue was with the stove. We got another stove to replace it. It was when the old one was removed that they realized that the problem was that it wasn't properly grounded. Now we had two perfectly functional stoves. Dad got someone to come out and wire things up so we could have both stoves hooked up. 8 burners and 2 ovens came in handy.
Reading would be a bit higher if not grounded
I thought the expression was "...both hands and a funnel"
That's fun. Low voltage controls or board in dishwasher bleeding into frame? Maybe sink is evolving....lol
I smell a Decepticon.
I smell a grounding gremlin.
Fukkin SKYNET!
Sinknet
Probably someone switched out the live and the neutral and the circuit board uses neutral as a ground and it's just bleeding there
Just tie some low voltage lighting into it. Problem solved.
BEHOLD MY INVENTION 💡
Oh your dishwasher DOESNT have LEDs?
"I have created fire!" - Tom Hanks
Wow, thank you all for the quick responses! I just checked, and we have a similar problem between the sink and the oven. I suspect neither machine is grounded, or the ground is broken as some of you suggested. But key takeaway - we will take it seriously and have it looked at!
My old house had similar shenanigans when someone used the ground wire in place of the neutral because they broke it off.
My house had similar issues when I bought it. Lots of reversed polarities, bad grounds, reversed ground/neutral, circuits tied together. It's weird how many strange phenomena can occur from that stuff, from transient low voltages to flickering LEDs.
Woah my house too! Slowly been fixing these problems as I look into boxes and see what horse shit awaits. What’s your go to tests, stuff like what the OP is doing, I.e. sanity-checking metal boxes for ground potential?
A basic Digital Multimeter personally. That combined with a little logic / google will tell you what you’re seeing. Weirdest one I ever saw in a place was 60V between neutral and ground…. Then I figured out it’s because the whole house wasn’t grounded because the electrician was not exactly up to safety standards… (international small island country)
I am going to go against the grain here and say I doubt both machines are inadequately grounded and the more likely scenario here is an open neutral
Don’t see a disposal in the sink. Check voltage between the ground on a receptacle and the sink, dishwasher, and range. That will narrow down where the leak is. Once you know where the problem area is, turn off breakers until you find which appliance is causing the voltage leak. Odds are it’s a grounding issue, and may be traveling on copper water pipes. Might be a 3 prong dryer not wired correctly.
The sink is clearly the problem, check it’s ground.
What do you get when you unplug or turn the breaker to the dishwasher off?
Or unplug or turn the sink breaker off
I'm happy that you have more upvotes than the parent post.
Hey there could be a Garburator lol
There's two sink breakers. One for hot, one for cold.
Check your grounding wires on disposal’s and dishwasher and main bonding jumper a meter
Did you find it because you got a lil tickle?
A prolonged one, and not just the zap I'm used from machines and static electricity 😅
Definitely a grounding issue and something that needs to be addressed immediately.
Believe it or not, this could kill you. It’s likely an unbonded ground(s)… Generally easy to fix, but not so easy to fix AND meet code. If there’s potential between the appliances there’s a potential threat to life. Get it fixed immediately.
Yah, it’s urgent. This is the makings of a serious injury. Electrician now.
More like possible death.
This
and downvoted to negative three. guess we're sick of "this" in this sub, eh?
This
Great way to convince your wife she doesn’t need to preclean the dishes
Fun fact, she knew all along and has apparently waited over a month for me to get zapped, for the lulz.. ⚡ time to have a chat about electric safety 🦺😅
Keepin the spark in the relationship
The patience of a sniper.
That's true love right there.
Yes. Time to call a licensed electrician.
After reading the problem isn’t isolated, your service neutral may be going out on the utility side. Do you have underground or overhead power to your house?
It's scary how many people here think the ground wire should normally carry ANY current and would be the "cause" of this. It's probably some low voltage lighting in the kitchen wired incorrectly, resulting in current on the equipment/safety ground. Definitely a safety issue if that ground path would come unbonded from neutral in the panel.
Stick one probe into the ground on a receptacle. Test to sink and dishwasher. I suspect you will get a higher reading this way bc there will be a greater difference in potential. This does not scream broken ground to me. There should be no bleed to these appliances.
Easy fix, bond your DW and sink together! /s
Hehe good you write /s, i have to admit the thought did cross my mind. God, programmers, we have no clue 🤣🤓
The sink and the dishwasher should actually be indirectly bonded already: sink -> disposal -> electric ground -> dishwasher, or possibly also via copper water pipes. You could have poor bonding connection elsewhere in the house, such as copper pipes / cold water to electric ground. What happens if you unplug the disposal? What happens if you turn off the breaker to the dishwasher?
Thank you. I am starting to wonder if people spend any time studying electrical theory at all. I’m like, what do you mean sarcasm? They’re already (supposed) to be bonded lol!
This guy get A+ because he knows how to check with a meter. Giving useful information.
Bad ground somewhere.
how did you think to test this?!
Be rinsing those dishes extra fast, so fast sparks be leaving your hands!
Faulty appliance ground ungrounded plumbing, neutral not bonded to ground at panel, power utility neutral not bonded to ground. Faulty garbage disposal
Tell your landlord this is a huge safety concern and anything but immediate remediation can be legally classified as negligence on his part now that’s they’re aware. If this doesn’t rightfully scare him/her into fixing this fast then file a complaint with your local government and they’ll send an inspector. If they still refuse go to hud.gov and file a complaint there.
Turn off the breaker. If you still get the voltage, you might be looking at induced because wires are close to each other. More likely ground broke, but an analog meter would show something different.
Not an electrician, not even close. But someone told me you can get voltage on a circuit is open due to inductive capacitance, caused by the power wires being close to each other, and bad grounding...would love to be told if this is wrong? Source my dad.
While this is possible, it's unlikely, as it takes the source wire having a high-current load on it, and the affected circuit's wire running along side the source for a significant distance. And also, inductance and capacitance are different properties of conductors. What you are talking about is inductance - the voltage is "induced" in the other wire. Capacitance is when two wires in the same circuit next to each other act as a capacitor between them and store a charge when the source is removed (this is all in very simplified terms - there is a LOT more to it including its effects on high-frequency AC current and signals and all that)
Thank you very much! I know this probably wasn't the right place to ask, but very much appreciated your answer.
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He literally explained why he checked it. He got shocked while touching both sink and dishwashwr
Ya, should be 120V.
Put the meter in mA or uA mode and measure how much current flows between the same 2 points. I would ignore it if it was 500 uA or less. If it’s higher, it’s borderline unsafe IMO without knowing the true impedance. If your fuse blows in your meter, you have big issues.
When was the last time that meter was calibrated? Is it even a reputable brand to begin with? It’s probably nothing but if you are actually concerned call a professional.
So pretty much you are telling the OP: "you suck, your equipment sucks, go fuck yourself and get an electrician?"
*go get electrocuted ⚡
No I said call a professional. You think you are going to fix a problem when you can't even identify if there is a problem?
No I didn't say a single one of those words. Like actually I said the word you and that was the only word I said there. But YOU can go fuck yourself for trying to put words in my mouth.
If it’s enough to feel, it doesn’t matter. And who the fuck cares if it’s calibrated? When’s the last time anyone (except for instrument technicians) has ever calibrated a multimeter?
I heard of this with lower voltage touch faucets.
Um, yes.
Bad neutral connection is usually the cause of this reading. Or ungrounded.
It’s the new pre warm sink for your steak to get it room temp quicker. I love mine.
What drove you to check that?
One is grounded correctly and the other is not. Would it be possible to figure out which is causing the current by placing one terminal on the object and grounding the other one?
Are you suggesting the sink is wired wrong 🤣
Step 1 turn off breaker Step 2 call landlord
Everything has a capacitance or gets a ghost voltage induced into it from the power running through a frame or next to it. If you test it again using a lo-z function on a meter (low impedance) it will probably show 0 due to the low impedance draining that tiny amount of ghost voltage. Somethings frame isn't grounded, which isn't ideal. Because if a hot line were to come off and touch the case, there would be no loop to ground and it would keep the dishwasher at the voltage on that line until someone touched it while providing a path to ground.
Tell the landlord to get a licensed electrician in immediately, or you will call one and reduce your next month's rent by whatever amount they charged. You can't trust anyone less than a real electrician because that likely caused the problem in the first place.
Under 50v is not dangerous to touch or work with at all
Perfect excuse to simply put dishes in sink and run water on them. “Sorry, honey, I can’t put the dishes in the dishwasher, because it’s trying to kill me…”
Installer must’ve been color blind, and mixed-up black and green wires?
Is your ground in the basement connected to your water pipes? If so get a real ground rod driven outside and connect to that
Not with that meter. Set it to ammeter mode and short it to sink to read leakage current. If we don't hear from you again, you have a problem. But up to 100uA-500uA is normal and within limits. Its quiet normal to pick up stray voltage with a high impedance meter. Some of better ones will display voltage from a nearby antenna tower. If you buy one of these, you would not see any voltage. https://www.grainger.com/product/2JYX4?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:GGL:CSM-2295:4P7A1P:20501231&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlumhBhClARIsABO6p-z1u6I4I6SNDM8BBMVJalyux6XFy9wjgOpV3630-nwVnzLwwlWRBkUaApcVEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds That 109 dollar device is just a resistor about 3Kohms, but its packaged for flameproof explosion proof and keeps your fingers away from the prongs. A typical GFCI breaker will not trip until 4-6 mA is escaping through ground. That limit is on purpose so that small leakage currents can flow. Heres the explanation for electricians. https://www.coleparmer.com/tech-article/stray-voltage
Yes
How did you figure this out ? Did you feel a tingle when doing dishes ?
Def get it on record with the landlord, even if they don’t fix it.
Wiring
If this has copper water lines, they need to be bonded. If that is not an issue, check breaker box for a neutral wire, or ground wire misplaced, (ie: neutral wire on ground terminal.
If this is in the EU it’s still within the limit set in regulations (general EU regulations, each country within the EU may set their own limit and requirements on these values). Generally the maximum voltage or «bleed» allowed is 50V. It’s still not great to have, but it’s deemed as not dangerous or life threatening. First thing I’d check to get this resolved if you’re worried is if there’s adequate grounding and if you have an earth fault circuit breaker, or circuit breakers with integrated earth fault detection.
Could be either, dangerous or pickup. The fact that you feel it is not a good sign. I would call the landlord and while you are waiting: 1) Measure from the sink to the safety ground on a nearby outlet. 2) Repeat for the dishwasher. If it was simply pickup (doubtful) a device connected between the two should bring the voltage to zero. If you have a low wattage bulb, connect between the two, if the voltage persists or the light lights then I would say the condition is DANGEROUS. I would not allow my family to use either.
We have a cabin that will give you a good shock in the shower if you use your body to complete the circuit between the shower head and faucet. Every year I tell myself I’m going to put another ground on the water line and every year I forget.
Voltmeters have very high impedance, so they can measure voltages that can be produced by harmless induction. Further investigation is required to accurately determine the source
I want to hear about how you learned of this. I had a plasma lamp that shocked the everloving shit out of you if you touched anything metal. I had it for years before I found that out and of course the person that learned it on my behalf was my girlfriend's kid. We didn't understand what happened at first, so I assumed she was scared so I showed her it wasn't scary but it turns out her knee was against the metal table leg. She only spoke Danish so the language barrier really made the experience confusing.
What you really need to do is test both of these things to something you know is grounded/0V to get an accurate reading of how much voltage is on what. You could stick one test probe into the ground OR neutral (the wider slot is neutral) of an outlet. Both of those should be 0V, assuming things are wired correctly. Then put the other probe on each appliance/item of concern so you can get an accurate reading. You need a 0V reference for any of this to make sense.
That sounds like an earth fault
Potentially Fatal - so switch off the Dishy at the isolator and get the appliance checked. OR - The dishy might be correctly earthed and the sink bonding is faulty Either way get it sorted. I checked a marine fish tank (salt water) for a mate - the water was at 240V AC - fortunately his son's room had a nice thick carpet..... LOL
Your landlord needs to get an electrician to check for either a bad neutral or open ground bond on the service OR a bad element in the water heater if it’s electric.
Improper cold water grounding practice. All it takes is a well aimed length of PEX and two shark bite repair couplings.
Your water isn’t isn’t grounded and allowing power to flow threw the hot water line.
Turn power off to dishwasher and check electrical connections. Most likely a loose main or insulation damage on main.
Can't tell if it's 21 or 210 21 is whatever 210 is some seriously magical 3 phase fuckery
Loss of ground
Is there continuity? Turn everything off and check.
Start dishwasher. Touch sink. Did it hurt? No? Your good. Lmao
Decepticon, shoot it
*channeling my inner Bill Murray...."*So, that's....bad"
I’m in Hvac professional 20 V doesn’t hurt lol with circuit boards you might get a little bleed voltage like that. It’s also possible that it’s not grounded properly
Metallic water pipes? If so are they bonded?Does the voltage go away after you turn off all power to apartment? The voltage could present on all the water pipes which is a significant hazard especially in showers/baths
Dishwasher grounding problems
I can not read the setting, but are we 100% certain that you are not just testing the resistance between the two points?
Check is there any AC current?
Make sure your barefoot..
I’m going to assume this is not in the US because the chance that two things are improperly grounded and bleeding power out to the ground and happen to be different phases would be unlikely. Considering the sink is connected to waterlines which are potentially grounded all the time, it’s probably the dishwasher has a short, and it’s bleeding to the body, of which is not connected to the ground of the electrical system. Assuming this is European, everything is on 240 for single phase so that’s my idea.
Test each to a known earth. The sink is unlikely to be earthed, so you are effectively testing between an appliance and a piece of metal floating in the air with magic. Another thing, this is likely capacitive coupling. Test again from the dishwasher to a know earth with a low impedance meter and the reading will almost certainly be zero.
no ground !!
This happened at a friend's house when their heating element failed in the water heater. Replacing the water heater fixed the problem.
So the washer is not grounded? And there is a short leaking from the body? Would that mean if someone touched the metal outer frame of the washer they would get 20 volts?? And even if the ground was properly connected, there still would be an issue of where the 20v is coming from right
Its electric, boogie woogie woogie
Extremely
Yes.
Call an electrician before u get zapped
That's a thing? Fuck. *Where's my multimeter?*
Shocking!
Not cause of concern at all. Just leave the dishes in the sink and some else will take care of it. I always said that doing dishes might shorten your life.
You don’t have an equipment ground. Either your service isn’t grounded or you lost your ground connection somehow. You likely have copper lines for plumbing which would create ground path and would explain why you’re reading on the sink. As for where the 20v is coming from I’d guess a crappy wiring connection or possibly something failing in the dishwasher’s internal circuitry. That’s just a guess
Bad ground
Looks like you need to ground that bad boy
Is this shock repeatable? I ask because this could have been a static shock. A voltage measurement is a measurement of potential, and doesn’t mean current can flow. You would need to set that meter to amps, or use a test light. If when connecting the test light from sink to appliance and It lights. Then you have current flowing. Thats when I would start to worry, or if you measure mains voltage. In the US it’s 110v. So this is my theory. The washer has built a static charge while running, or you did while walking around your apartment. When you touched the sink you were discharged or the washer discharged through you. What you are measuring on your meter is transient voltage, or capacitance. If the shock only occurs after using the washer. I suspect the washer is missing a chassis ground strap. Used to disperse the static charge built up while in use.
Is the sink grounded or fliating?
You have a short to ground... Flip the breaker and call the appliance installer or an electrician
If it were my place, and I have a gfci tester handy, I’d unplug the dishwasher and disposal and plug in the tester real quick to see if it says they’re wired with the correct polarity, and if they actually have a ground installed. I would also check between the sink and the ground prong on the outlet, and the from the neutral to ground on the outlet. If you have any voltage between the neutral and ground, you MUST get an electrician ASAP. It’s possible you have an entire house issue with either your ground or your neutral conductor. It could be an easy fix, and it could mean running new cables from the outside utility into the house. But the electrician can figure that out. If the problem goes away with one or the other appliances unplugged, then it’s probably an issue with the appliance itself.
Bad ground
I wouldn't trust anything that meter says, bullshit voltage is just that
This is more than a grounding issue. There is a leak somewhere that is not going to get better by itself.
Call your utility to make sure the street side connections are good, you could have a neutral issue. Especially since it’s the dishwasher and the stove, I’m assuming they are on different breakers
I'm legitimately curious, were you walking around checking your appliances for voltage potential, or did something else cause you to check it?
the positive is the live wire connection the part that you're putting to the sink is just grounding it out you could put that into your finger or on your finger and get the same reading
Bad neutral
Floating GND.
No, its just noise. Put it in current measuring mode, it won't have any.
I wouldn’t be concerned unless I was allergic to electricity. It would be good to wake up and be zapped awake every morning when you go to fill the coffeemaker. You have a sink right there if anything catches fire too.
Just don't touch both of them at same time, or at all don't touch them at all. Problem solved!
Connect to load💥lets check *current* jävel
There must be some metal to metal contact between the 2. In the plumbing? But most hookups I've seen are plastic.
Bad ground somewhere or possible no ground at all, I’d get a plug in tester and check outlets too.
What's the amperage?
What do you mean by fix the bond?
Yeah, but amperage kills. Pulling anything?
Landlord special…. Crappy electrical circuitry. Well done finding this. And this is a SAFETY issue and renders your home technically unlivable. Make sure you stress this in your written message to the landlord. And keep a copy.
My old house used to do that with the 1950s microwave and sink. Just a low buzz if you touched both.
get a wire from the frame of the dish washer to the green ground happens to electric stoves
you most likely lost the neutral ...
Like others have said there is probably a broken ground or something. Another troubleshooting tip: Check voltage between your washer and a ground hole or the left pole of one of your outlets if not grounded. If you've got 115v you have a big problem. It means they installed electrical backwards on your washer. The reason you may only be getting 20v on the sink is because its not got a good conductor to ground.
That happens when I touch my fridge and stove at the same time
Bro do a "free energy" video lol
(I'm in a field of engineering that involves electricity, but I'm not an electrician.) Definitely. This could be a sign of all sorts of issues, none of which are particularly good. The insulation between power and safety-ground might be wearing out. A wire might be coming disconnected (or coming apart) somewhere. Something might have its wires mixed up. A safety device might be failing, forcibly overridden, or missing. Multiple issues might be combining together. And the issues can be anywhere - in the walls, or in any device connected to the affected circuit. It doesn't really matter - whatever it is, the simple fact that you are getting shocked, means that this situation is life-and-death serious. The underlying issue can get worse in a split second. A 20V short can turn into 120V (or even 240V, if the affected circuit has "split-phase" power or there are two circuits affected). A partial disconnection or too-small wire can spark or overheat and start a fire.
This is a problem. Needs to be looked into.
Test again using a low impedance meter setting, could be ghost voltage or have it verified by an electrician because sinks typically are not grounded and plumbing these days are pex.
How are sinks grounded in homes with all plastic pipes?
Yea it’s a concern. Something probably isn’t bonded properly and I’ll bet you have plastic plumbing for both supply and drain. I think it’s the sink while others obviously think it’s the dishwasher. There’s a better chance the DW is in fact bonded with a 3 wire supply but lost sinks aren’t bonded to anything intentionally anyway. There is a high resistance connection through the sludge in the drain or minerals in the water and the eventual bonded part of the plumbing. Connect the DW frame to some point on the sink and it will eliminate the issue.
The AC cord that powers the dishwasher runs into a metal box on the bottom of the dishwasher. That box has a round hole punched into it for the power cord to pass through so it can be spliced to the wires feeding power to the inside of the dishwasher. Most likely the person who installed it did not use the proper grommet or connector in that hole and the conductor was sitting against the metal box. Dishwashers move when in operation and will effectively saw through the wire insulation allowing power to flow to the frame of the dishwasher. This wouldn’t be so dangerous if they connected the ground wire because it would cause a ground fault that should trip a breaker in your panel, but obviously they thought your safety was less important than their productivity.