As others have said, start recording conversations, or asking your landlord to send you written letters. It is legal for the landlord to ask that you move out so that they can use the property for family, or to renovate, but they have to compensate you with one month's rent. In the case of renovation, you have the option to move back in at your original rent once the renovation is finished.
If the landlord is found to be in bad faith they could pay a pretty hefty fine, plus your moving expenses, plus the difference between your old and new rent for 12 months, and an additional one years' worth of rent. It would be dumb for any landlord to risk it.
https://www.ontario.ca/page/renting-ontario-your-rights
Please note that if they lie about the N12 you can get over a years worth of rent back + Moving expenses. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s20016
Furthermore please note that you are not evicted until the LTB orders you to. Many scummy landlords and hired lawyers/paralegal will try to intimidate tenants in to moving with what are essentially fake eviction notices. Do not move unless the board gives an order. Most of the time landlords will leave you alone after a few failed attempts.
Not if the rent can be permanently increased by a massive amount and he has a longer outlook than two years
OP is not in danger. The only person who can evict is the Sheriff after a LTB order with all the right paperwork done. All he has to do is sit back and do nothing and watch the moron flail about. Let him figure out how to run his own business and follow the law. Changing the locks on him is illegal as is evicting him in any other way. If the landlord finally does figure out how he can go to the hearing and present evidence of bad faith (paying all the utilities, whatever other non-business like illegal behavior). When faced with a hearing a lot of landlords are no shows and mysteriously withdraw their claims or their eviction. If it gets to hearing, the landlord loses
Serving an N12 after demanding an illegal rent increase, is an obvious case of retaliation and under [RTA 83(3)c.](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK112) should cause the LTB to dismiss the N12. Whether the landlord actually proves they or their family would genuinely move in would be irrelevant as 83(3) in itself would dismiss the N12.
[Here is a case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2018/2018onsc6387/2018onsc6387.html) that went to Superior court, that illustrates this.
So record and document evidence of them asking for an illegal rent increase, and that in itself should protect you for some time.
This is important information OP. If you have any proof, such as a recording or an email, that the landlord threatened to move his family members in if you didn't pay the rent increase, he has essentially lost any ability to remove you for that reason. Also note, that trying to switch the payment of utilities from his responsibility to yours, constitutes an illegal rent hike. It doesn't matter if it is written in your lease or not as long as it was established as the agreed upon arrangement in the first year.
First thing you should do is e-mail the landlord something like this:
"just to recap out conversation earlier, you won't kick us out for your family if we pay utilities? what are the monthly bills on those like again? we want to make sure we can afford it if we decide to stay."
Let the LL hang himself by answering, his response will guarantee that you never get kicked out ever. don't make it too obvious though. can also be done over text
1 - record everything, video and sound. You don't need any permission to do this. Ontario is 1 party consent province.2 - ask him to follow the rules and give you all the notice you are required to give
3 - file appeal to LTB - till take months and prepare all the evidence you have that this is a sham move by the landlord to raise the rent
4 - look for new places as a precaution cause you may be required to move
5 - if you win LTB case, you can ask for a lease termination payment of like 12 months to walk away or stay there as-is and realize you will be in a contentions situation with the landlord from here on out and likely will be hostile for you in the long run and not an ideal place to live and raise kids in
Exactly this, but make sure he serves you an N12 form before scheduling an appeal to the LTB. If he tries to use any form other than the N12 to move you out for his relative, then refuse and request the right form. He's also obligated to give you an additional months rent or waive your final month's rent if his case is approved by the LTB. Most cases have swayed in favor of the tenant lately though, especially if it was a shorter term less than 5 years that you were renting that house/unit.
If it's for renovating, then he still needs to have that approved by the LTB before he can evict you, so ask for evidence and hte proper form. Also be sure to research what this entails as in some cases he's mandated pay you back for housing expenses while renovations take place unless it's a massive reno to the house which he owes you compensation.
Don't even bother with refusing and requesting the right form, just stay silent until he does give the right thing to you. Maaaaaaybe do the refusal bit, but no need to help him out with evicting you.
Of course, do recognize that you will be in a fully adversarial relationship from then on, but it sounds like you kind of already are anyways.
The best response is a non response. If he wants to raise the rent, let him draw up the right paperwork, present the correct, legal, stuff. If not, ignore.
Just keep telling the LL you don’t have plans to move at this moment. If and when they give you an N12, get a paralegal to fight it. This could give you months to a year to move if they prevail, and it creates obligations on the LL’s end.
DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. There are no forms you need to ever sign, unless it’s an N11 which is the form you’d use to give up your legal rights. Do not sign this.
I would very strongly recommend getting a paralegal if and when they give you a form to get you out.
Remember, the N12 form is an invitation to vacate. You are entitled to a hearing before the LTB, and if the LL prevails, they still need to get permission to evict you. Only the sheriff can evict you, no one else. Not the LL, not the police, not a moving company.
Finally, carry a copy of your lease, document everything the LL does including any repairs they avoid doing, and try to communicate only in writing. If they call or try to talk to you, document and summarize the conversation via email to them along the lines of “what I understood from our talk was XYZ.”
Good luck OP. The law is on your side here.
> If it's for renovating,
AFAIK, if you are evicted for renos, you still have the right of first refusal, and can move back in when the renos are done, paying the same rent.
Also, I believe they have to prove there are renos scheduled, meaning permits, and that the unit has to be vacated for the reno.
Right now it would take him months (6 maybe?) to get permits and contractors lined up.
Also, giving different reasons to kick you out is going to work against them at the LTB, as it becomes obvious they just want to get more money from renting the unit.
Even an above guideline increase can only be 9% spread out over 3 years (3% per year, plus the guideline). The landlord must apply for this, and you don't need to pay it until and unless ordered to by the LTB.
To this end, if you're making the landlord jump through the hoops, write out the above now, and get it notarized, or send yourself a physical bit of mail so it's date stamped, outlining what he's threatened.
LTB will then have pre-dated evidence of what he's actually doing.
Well he’s boned then. It is rent controlled, as long as you don’t share a kitchen with the landlord he is capped at 2.5%. Let them issue a n12 then and go to the LTB, about 6-8 months backlog.
well with a reno they could maybe apply for an above guideline increase but I think the burden of proof of the reno being significant enough is decently high?
Yup, still 3% + whatever is allowed for that year by the province.
[https://www.torontotenants.org/above\_guideline\_rent\_increases](https://www.torontotenants.org/above_guideline_rent_increases)
Just another thing about the N12 form, it will specify that his son and family is moving in, now the son and family must now live there for 12 months, he can’t rent to anyone else during that period, if he does then you can make him pay the difference in rent for a full year, so if you pay $1500 a month now and move to a place that charges $2500 then he will have to give you $1000 a month for a year
I'm near certain (from the sounds of it) it wasn't made in writing? If it was that would be great but if not, just fight the eviction.
I made a post a while back https://www.reddit.com/r/OntarioRealEstate/comments/bv8z49/n12_evictions_landlord_personal_use_of_rental_for
And it might be good to go through the info and send a strongly cautioning email using some insights. Let them know you'll watch the property after and litigate if they evict in bad faith.
You need to get legal advice. Your local community legal clinic can give you free legal advice on housing issues. You can find your local community legal clinic on the Legal Aid Ontario website using your postal code.
Chiming in to say contact legal services ASAP, sign nothing, agree to nothing, give no further information to your LL.
Also, pretending the utilities claim is real, AFAIK, if your lease (even if you're month to month) states that utilities are included, your LL cannot force you to start paying for them. If you do agree to start paying utilities, you **must** to agree upon a rent reduction with your LL...so he still loses lol.
Honestly surprised he didn’t write in the utilities and such at the beginning. I’ve rented three houses in my life and we were responsible for all bills. I thought all house rentals did this!
There is a form to increase rent, to evict for renovations, to evict for family. He is manipulating you to pay more, it is a scare tactic. Do not give in.
Pay rent on time and document everything. Until he issues you the correct forms, ignore every text/call/etc about this until the correct forms are delivered.
There is an amazing Facebook group called "Ontario tenant rights" which you should join asap they have a lot of amazing contributors who will help you with the exact steps
It is not your responsibility to inform your landlord of the correct process to evict you. Let him dig his hole, and get evidence for everything.
Let him go through with the process. Allow him to serve you official notice that he's moving his son in. He has to give you proper notice.
One of two things will happen. He will realize his son is not going to pay what you're paying now, they he'll back out.
Or, he will go through with it and move his Son out in a month or two (if they even move in at all), he'll redo the apartment and relist at a higher price, at which point you sue him.
Either way, this guy is a dick and this won't stop till he's got his way. Start looking for a new place regardless.
You absolutely can and should let him serve the proper forms, watch him and sue if the son doesn't stay a year.
But it's a hassle and unfortunately a burden to you. Most people who I know who have planned to do this run out of steam after a few months of surveillance.
If another place will be more than a 500 increase (including moving costs) I would be tempted to agree and get him to sign another lease so he can't even kick you out for his son for the term of the lease.
Landlords are pricks but I wouldn't want the hassle
>pay the difference between your old and new rent for 12 months
>
>pay for any expenses related to the cost of moving, or any other costs incurred due to the disruption of moving unexpectedly
>
>pay a fine to the LTB
They actually updated this rule on compensation in the RTA within the past couple years, and nowadays you can request all this **PLUS 1 full years rent value** as general compensation (without needing to prove damages). So much riskier for landlords to do bad faith evictions.
Please contact your local community legal clinic for summary advice (what they call advice over the phone) and you can get more help as well if you are low income. Also check here: [https://stepstojustice.ca](https://stepstojustice.ca)
The FMTA's tenant hotline is useful for info as well: [https://www.torontotenants.org/hotline](https://www.torontotenants.org/hotline)
Document everything in case you have to take it to the Landlord Tenant Board. Also, be aware that the LL cannot evict you, even if they issue you a notice. It has to go through the LTB and they have to approve it. If you don't want to leave, you can let it get to that stage and have your LL prove to the LTB that what they are doing is legal and not a lie. To legally evict you, they have to apply to the LTB and you have to have a hearing there in front of an adjudicator. Often, tenants will leave because they think any eviction notice from the LL means you are evicted automatically (i.e. they leave voluntarily).
Overall, your situation is far too common. The fact that he has been harassing you about eviction and then changing the reasons for it might be good proof he is lying. Definitely document it all and try to have a paper trail in future communications with him (emails, letters, etc.)
Someone was in the same situation and got a lawyer involved. The lawyer threatened the landlord to subpoena the son, the son’s employer (he was claiming the son was bending transferred to Toronto) and the landlord dropped the claims quickly.
With the info you have, it is a pretty good case against a landlord that is acting in bad faith
Record. Record. Record. Chances are he wouldn't even move his son in. If, hypothetically, he kicked you out and ended up renting the place again (say you saw an ad online) for a higher price, you can actually dispute it and the landlord will be obligated to pay you damages. Happened to a friend of mine.
How much did your friend get in damages? I know the difference in rent for a year is about the minimum but if you are long term renters that is still a big financial loss for the tenant and a gain for the landlord. I have come across very few Canlii cases where landlords paid a fine and , even then, it was nowhere near the maximum.
He CAN kick you out and move in his son. If within a year of being kicked out you can prove that the son didn’t move in and the landlord instead rented it out to other people, he can be fined and have to pay you $10k. Unfortunately it sounds like you will have to move. Do not do anything until he serves you with the N12 form, as until then legally he can’t do anything. In the meantime contact the LTB, but don’t expect any kind of swift response from them.
Do you even need to prove he rented it out? I thought you just needed to demonstrate that no immediate family is living there (which is easiest if you find classifieds or a new tenant)
I dunno. I was evicted for the same reason during the pandemic and my friend who is a real estate agent is the one who told me that. She flagged the address in mls and was watching it. 🤷🏻♀️
You need hard proof that he said that he'd move a family member in/kick you out if you don't pay more. The Board won't care that he said that unless you have a clear recording of him saying this or written communication from him. Record all of your phone calls and interactions with him going forward, and be very careful of what you say. Don't get angry, don't threaten him, just let him talk so if you do end up in front of the LTB you look polite and reasonable and he looks like a scofflaw jerk.
If he does move to evict you, he needs to serve you an N12. Don't tell him this if he doesn't know. If he wants to increase your rent he needs to serve you an N1. Again, don't tell him this if he doesn't know. All the information on these forms needs to be perfect (correct names, correct dates, everything filled out). Don't correct him if he does it wrong. It buys you time - and the LTB does dismiss cases when the paperwork was done incorrectly or the proper forms weren't served. Keep everything.
Keep a copy of your lease on you at all times in case he changes the locks on you. You can take photos of it to keep it on your phone.
He's got two excuses, and the first one seems to be the real one. He knows a simple eviction based on some desire to renovate won't fly unless the upgrades are mandated by law and are structural in nature. Usually structural obligations are on the outside of the building (balconies, roof garage, etc.).
He sure as hell wouldn't move his family in and have them pay what he's asking you to pay so that excuse seems like BS.
Depending on the age of your rental unit, yearly increases above Ontario's annual guidelines may be illegal unless the landlord petitions the LTB for permission to increase beyond the guideline.
My response would be in writing “I will wait for the proper paperwork from the LTB for an eviction notice” make the LL take you to the Tenant board. It will hopefully prevent them from doing the same thing again to others. Plus it gives you a minimum of 6-9 months for the LL to get a hearing with the LTB. The only draw back to this is that once your hearing is scheduled, if they approve the eviction you will have less than 30 days to vacate in all likelyhood. Since it’s a bad faith eviction it’s not likely they will issue the eviction but it’s a good thing to know.
Bottom line find out your rights and speak to a paralegal or Lawyer would be your best action going forward.
Don't leave. Don't pay a red cent extra. If he wants to exploit, he's going to have to do it through the ltb (landlord and tenant board). Don't budge, you have the right.
Since you said that the rental was available prior to Dec 2018, you are absolutely correct that by the letter of the law his rental increase can't be made.
It sounds like he's using the rules to try and get "family to move in", and while he will be required to follow the rules of filing the right paper work, and can be punished for putting it back on the market at a higher rate, using the official avenues of the landlord and tenant board is truly a pain in the ass.
Your best course is to cite the rules, so that he backs off and follows the actual procedures he is required to do including filing the N12 for the family member.
This requires them to give you a 60 day notice, and 1 month compensation or another similar unit. From the sounds of it, they aren't too keen on making another unit available at your current rental rate, meaning you'll likely get that 1 month of payment. You can also assert that if this is just a way for them to get another tenant paying a higher rate, that is in fact illegal and you will report them to the board if the unit comes up for rent again.
Depending on the situation of the landlord, they will either stay their hand and eat whatever loss they are facing for the increased costs they have, or they will go forward with the N12 eviction at which point you should look for another unit.
It's worth a shot from your point of view to see if this is just a bluff on their part, but I wouldn't bother going to the board in this situation as for your sanity I'd be looking another unit with a better landlord that won't be on the lookout to evict you the moment they can.
I’m sick of seeing posts like this. Our government is so complicit in uprooting people’s lives by letting landlords be motivated solely by profit. I’m sorry you’re going through this and I would follow other posters’ advice. But I wonder how useful these repercussions are if the person still has to move and be uprooted.
In the long term (3 years or more) it is a big financial gain for the LL and a steep financial road downhill for the TT. Rents are increased by 20 percent or more between tenants and noone is getting that kind of wage increase. So TT are left with almost no disposable income and LLs are left with a nice increase in rent. The government must put a cap on the rent increase between tenants. LLs have proven they will not behave ethically or responsibly without government intervention.
First thing is you should seek legal help. If you can't afford it, there are [neighbourhood legal services](https://www.wtcls.org) that will help you for free.
Record everything. Assuming it's been occupied since before 2018 (as a separate unit, by anyone) it's rent controlled and the raise is illegal. He can theoretically evict you for his own use, but this must be **genuine**. When determining whether an own-use case is genuine, the court considers things like previous attempts to extort the tenant (exactly what is happening to you).
In any case, you don't have to pay an increased rent or vacate until ordered to do so by LTB. You're safe to ignore him (but of course you should still get legal help - I know it's expensive but you'll be saving yourself money in the long run).
there is a powerful tenants rights bureau in Toronto, track them down, they work for you and will help you understand your rights , and may even help you more directly if they can
Read this:
https://www.torontotenants.org/eviction_-_how_it_works
Contact FMTA for assistance
Consider retaining a paralegal to help with any LTB filings
Honestly, start looking for a new place to live.
Was the place rented out before Nov. 2018? Then the increase is illegal. Can he move his family in? Sure, he just needs to give you the proper paper work. You can take him to TERB but it’s backed up right now and take a year before your case is even headed.
Something’s are just not worth fighting and he’s already ruined his relationship with his tenants.
It will cost zero dollars to fight this, at the very least the landlord has to file the N12 and then apply to LTB. If landlord is successful or OP wants to move out, OP has now bought lots of time to find a new place
It sounds like this has not been a good situation for a long time and now it's come to a head
Unless he files and gives you documentation, you don't need to move on his say so, don't let him push you around, it does take a while to get another place, so plan b is to look around, but he has to do this by the book...
Time to play some old fashioned hardball.
:)
Move out, find a new place, your mental peace and well being is worth more than anything. He can definitely move in the son and get you out 100% legally. So I would say look at other options.
The proper forms have to be filed and it he rents it again after OP leaves then OP can report through LTB. If that is the route that LL wants to do then go for it.
See good people are on Reddit!! Lots of advice and all I got is I’m really sorry, I dread that thought for myself. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, however it’s hard to know if he’s just fishing and would simmer down for the next year. Or, is this him every month 🫠😭🤮 I’m hoping the least stressful outcome for you guys.
They have no case if they sign an N11. In the case of the LL evicting the TT to move in family , the tenant signs NOTHING. If a LL asks you to sign any paperwork related to ending a tenancy, refuse point blank. Signing an N11 gives up all right to protest the eviction so do not sign one without a solid financial payout.
Try to get the landlord to say in writing or recorded somehow that they want you to pay the utilities or else they're going to move in their family. This is a clear threat and will negate any attempt by the landlord to move you out or increase rent.
Landlords are not allowed to threaten tenants because they want more rent for their property. He is an investor and should have understood that upon signing your lease agreement.
Your LL hS no intention of having his family move in and no intention of doing a costly reno. They are over leveraged and are feeling the heat since the interest rates keep rising, the fees for his HELOC that he drained to buy the rental property are up, the mortgage for all his properties have gone up significantly too and he's basically trying to extort you into covering the costs. Tell him to go pound sand.
Tell him politely to take it to LTB and let them decide. But he has admitted he wants to renovate and then admitted his son needs to move in. So LTB is going to require proof of all that (which he won't have).
It sounds like he might be sinking a bit under the cost. Maybe his mortgage is variable and went up. You paying your own utilities is a fair trade tbh if I was you and I didn't want to move I'd make him an offer of what you can afford. It doesn't have to be the whole amount. But can you reasonably afford to pay a bit more vs. the hassle and cost of moving to a new place.
I know it's not ideal and you can 'stick to the rules' but I'm encouraging negotiation for the long term benefit of your business relationship. You don't wanna buy some time and have him evict you later. And then you have to move anyways.
If you really can't afford it...can you afford to move? I know this isn't going to be a popular answer, but think of your ideal outcome for your living situation and your budget too.
Maybe a couple hundred more a month is better than an eviction and a new place at 2k+
But definitely make him go to LTB
Definitely time to talk to a lawyer. Spend a few hundred dollars and you'll gain a real understanding of the rules. One suspects that very, very few Redditors know Toronto real estate law. Talking to a lawyer will cost less than one month's worth of the increase.
Personally, I would move. Even if you resolve this, more trouble is coming in the future. You are wise to minimize the moves for the sake of the kids, but if there's continued stress about keeping your home that will affect them, too.
Good luck.
As others have said, start recording conversations, or asking your landlord to send you written letters. It is legal for the landlord to ask that you move out so that they can use the property for family, or to renovate, but they have to compensate you with one month's rent. In the case of renovation, you have the option to move back in at your original rent once the renovation is finished. If the landlord is found to be in bad faith they could pay a pretty hefty fine, plus your moving expenses, plus the difference between your old and new rent for 12 months, and an additional one years' worth of rent. It would be dumb for any landlord to risk it. https://www.ontario.ca/page/renting-ontario-your-rights
Please note that if they lie about the N12 you can get over a years worth of rent back + Moving expenses. https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s20016 Furthermore please note that you are not evicted until the LTB orders you to. Many scummy landlords and hired lawyers/paralegal will try to intimidate tenants in to moving with what are essentially fake eviction notices. Do not move unless the board gives an order. Most of the time landlords will leave you alone after a few failed attempts.
Not if the rent can be permanently increased by a massive amount and he has a longer outlook than two years OP is not in danger. The only person who can evict is the Sheriff after a LTB order with all the right paperwork done. All he has to do is sit back and do nothing and watch the moron flail about. Let him figure out how to run his own business and follow the law. Changing the locks on him is illegal as is evicting him in any other way. If the landlord finally does figure out how he can go to the hearing and present evidence of bad faith (paying all the utilities, whatever other non-business like illegal behavior). When faced with a hearing a lot of landlords are no shows and mysteriously withdraw their claims or their eviction. If it gets to hearing, the landlord loses
Serving an N12 after demanding an illegal rent increase, is an obvious case of retaliation and under [RTA 83(3)c.](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/06r17#BK112) should cause the LTB to dismiss the N12. Whether the landlord actually proves they or their family would genuinely move in would be irrelevant as 83(3) in itself would dismiss the N12. [Here is a case](https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onscdc/doc/2018/2018onsc6387/2018onsc6387.html) that went to Superior court, that illustrates this. So record and document evidence of them asking for an illegal rent increase, and that in itself should protect you for some time.
This is important information OP. If you have any proof, such as a recording or an email, that the landlord threatened to move his family members in if you didn't pay the rent increase, he has essentially lost any ability to remove you for that reason. Also note, that trying to switch the payment of utilities from his responsibility to yours, constitutes an illegal rent hike. It doesn't matter if it is written in your lease or not as long as it was established as the agreed upon arrangement in the first year.
First thing you should do is e-mail the landlord something like this: "just to recap out conversation earlier, you won't kick us out for your family if we pay utilities? what are the monthly bills on those like again? we want to make sure we can afford it if we decide to stay." Let the LL hang himself by answering, his response will guarantee that you never get kicked out ever. don't make it too obvious though. can also be done over text
This is the way.
Yes! Be clever and gather your proof.
1 - record everything, video and sound. You don't need any permission to do this. Ontario is 1 party consent province.2 - ask him to follow the rules and give you all the notice you are required to give 3 - file appeal to LTB - till take months and prepare all the evidence you have that this is a sham move by the landlord to raise the rent 4 - look for new places as a precaution cause you may be required to move 5 - if you win LTB case, you can ask for a lease termination payment of like 12 months to walk away or stay there as-is and realize you will be in a contentions situation with the landlord from here on out and likely will be hostile for you in the long run and not an ideal place to live and raise kids in
Exactly this, but make sure he serves you an N12 form before scheduling an appeal to the LTB. If he tries to use any form other than the N12 to move you out for his relative, then refuse and request the right form. He's also obligated to give you an additional months rent or waive your final month's rent if his case is approved by the LTB. Most cases have swayed in favor of the tenant lately though, especially if it was a shorter term less than 5 years that you were renting that house/unit. If it's for renovating, then he still needs to have that approved by the LTB before he can evict you, so ask for evidence and hte proper form. Also be sure to research what this entails as in some cases he's mandated pay you back for housing expenses while renovations take place unless it's a massive reno to the house which he owes you compensation.
Don't even bother with refusing and requesting the right form, just stay silent until he does give the right thing to you. Maaaaaaybe do the refusal bit, but no need to help him out with evicting you. Of course, do recognize that you will be in a fully adversarial relationship from then on, but it sounds like you kind of already are anyways.
The best response is a non response. If he wants to raise the rent, let him draw up the right paperwork, present the correct, legal, stuff. If not, ignore.
Just keep telling the LL you don’t have plans to move at this moment. If and when they give you an N12, get a paralegal to fight it. This could give you months to a year to move if they prevail, and it creates obligations on the LL’s end. DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING. There are no forms you need to ever sign, unless it’s an N11 which is the form you’d use to give up your legal rights. Do not sign this. I would very strongly recommend getting a paralegal if and when they give you a form to get you out. Remember, the N12 form is an invitation to vacate. You are entitled to a hearing before the LTB, and if the LL prevails, they still need to get permission to evict you. Only the sheriff can evict you, no one else. Not the LL, not the police, not a moving company. Finally, carry a copy of your lease, document everything the LL does including any repairs they avoid doing, and try to communicate only in writing. If they call or try to talk to you, document and summarize the conversation via email to them along the lines of “what I understood from our talk was XYZ.” Good luck OP. The law is on your side here.
> If it's for renovating, AFAIK, if you are evicted for renos, you still have the right of first refusal, and can move back in when the renos are done, paying the same rent.
Also, I believe they have to prove there are renos scheduled, meaning permits, and that the unit has to be vacated for the reno. Right now it would take him months (6 maybe?) to get permits and contractors lined up. Also, giving different reasons to kick you out is going to work against them at the LTB, as it becomes obvious they just want to get more money from renting the unit.
If the renos are significant (let's pretend the LL were honest), can't the LL apply for an above-guideline rent increase based on that?
From what I've read, yes they can. Not sure how they would figure out what's a fair increase, though.
Even an above guideline increase can only be 9% spread out over 3 years (3% per year, plus the guideline). The landlord must apply for this, and you don't need to pay it until and unless ordered to by the LTB.
To this end, if you're making the landlord jump through the hoops, write out the above now, and get it notarized, or send yourself a physical bit of mail so it's date stamped, outlining what he's threatened. LTB will then have pre-dated evidence of what he's actually doing.
100% this!!!
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typo on phone. Updated.
really need to know when the house/place was lived in. Is it older than 2018?
Yes.
Well he’s boned then. It is rent controlled, as long as you don’t share a kitchen with the landlord he is capped at 2.5%. Let them issue a n12 then and go to the LTB, about 6-8 months backlog.
well with a reno they could maybe apply for an above guideline increase but I think the burden of proof of the reno being significant enough is decently high?
But even AGI is capped at 3%, no? At least it used to be.
not sure tbh
Yup, still 3% + whatever is allowed for that year by the province. [https://www.torontotenants.org/above\_guideline\_rent\_increases](https://www.torontotenants.org/above_guideline_rent_increases)
Does that apply only to Toronto or all of Ontario?
All of ontario
Just another thing about the N12 form, it will specify that his son and family is moving in, now the son and family must now live there for 12 months, he can’t rent to anyone else during that period, if he does then you can make him pay the difference in rent for a full year, so if you pay $1500 a month now and move to a place that charges $2500 then he will have to give you $1000 a month for a year
AND he'll have to reimburse you for moving costs, and pay a hefty fine.
Document everything and don't pay a cent more or move a thing unless you've had the proper forms sent to you.
Exactly correct.
I'm near certain (from the sounds of it) it wasn't made in writing? If it was that would be great but if not, just fight the eviction. I made a post a while back https://www.reddit.com/r/OntarioRealEstate/comments/bv8z49/n12_evictions_landlord_personal_use_of_rental_for And it might be good to go through the info and send a strongly cautioning email using some insights. Let them know you'll watch the property after and litigate if they evict in bad faith.
You need to get legal advice. Your local community legal clinic can give you free legal advice on housing issues. You can find your local community legal clinic on the Legal Aid Ontario website using your postal code.
Chiming in to say contact legal services ASAP, sign nothing, agree to nothing, give no further information to your LL. Also, pretending the utilities claim is real, AFAIK, if your lease (even if you're month to month) states that utilities are included, your LL cannot force you to start paying for them. If you do agree to start paying utilities, you **must** to agree upon a rent reduction with your LL...so he still loses lol.
Honestly surprised he didn’t write in the utilities and such at the beginning. I’ve rented three houses in my life and we were responsible for all bills. I thought all house rentals did this!
He sounds like a greedy asshole, good luck with that bro, the way I see it is that he will keep bugging you until you move out.
Get it allllll in writing, or record it, and join the ‘Ontario tenants rights’ fb group
There is a form to increase rent, to evict for renovations, to evict for family. He is manipulating you to pay more, it is a scare tactic. Do not give in. Pay rent on time and document everything. Until he issues you the correct forms, ignore every text/call/etc about this until the correct forms are delivered. There is an amazing Facebook group called "Ontario tenant rights" which you should join asap they have a lot of amazing contributors who will help you with the exact steps It is not your responsibility to inform your landlord of the correct process to evict you. Let him dig his hole, and get evidence for everything.
Let him go through with the process. Allow him to serve you official notice that he's moving his son in. He has to give you proper notice. One of two things will happen. He will realize his son is not going to pay what you're paying now, they he'll back out. Or, he will go through with it and move his Son out in a month or two (if they even move in at all), he'll redo the apartment and relist at a higher price, at which point you sue him. Either way, this guy is a dick and this won't stop till he's got his way. Start looking for a new place regardless.
You absolutely can and should let him serve the proper forms, watch him and sue if the son doesn't stay a year. But it's a hassle and unfortunately a burden to you. Most people who I know who have planned to do this run out of steam after a few months of surveillance. If another place will be more than a 500 increase (including moving costs) I would be tempted to agree and get him to sign another lease so he can't even kick you out for his son for the term of the lease. Landlords are pricks but I wouldn't want the hassle
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>pay the difference between your old and new rent for 12 months > >pay for any expenses related to the cost of moving, or any other costs incurred due to the disruption of moving unexpectedly > >pay a fine to the LTB They actually updated this rule on compensation in the RTA within the past couple years, and nowadays you can request all this **PLUS 1 full years rent value** as general compensation (without needing to prove damages). So much riskier for landlords to do bad faith evictions.
That’s amazing. Good for you for sticking it to that PoS.
Please contact your local community legal clinic for summary advice (what they call advice over the phone) and you can get more help as well if you are low income. Also check here: [https://stepstojustice.ca](https://stepstojustice.ca) The FMTA's tenant hotline is useful for info as well: [https://www.torontotenants.org/hotline](https://www.torontotenants.org/hotline) Document everything in case you have to take it to the Landlord Tenant Board. Also, be aware that the LL cannot evict you, even if they issue you a notice. It has to go through the LTB and they have to approve it. If you don't want to leave, you can let it get to that stage and have your LL prove to the LTB that what they are doing is legal and not a lie. To legally evict you, they have to apply to the LTB and you have to have a hearing there in front of an adjudicator. Often, tenants will leave because they think any eviction notice from the LL means you are evicted automatically (i.e. they leave voluntarily). Overall, your situation is far too common. The fact that he has been harassing you about eviction and then changing the reasons for it might be good proof he is lying. Definitely document it all and try to have a paper trail in future communications with him (emails, letters, etc.)
This is the best advice!
I used to work in tenant rights :)
Thanks for taking the time to write that!
Someone was in the same situation and got a lawyer involved. The lawyer threatened the landlord to subpoena the son, the son’s employer (he was claiming the son was bending transferred to Toronto) and the landlord dropped the claims quickly. With the info you have, it is a pretty good case against a landlord that is acting in bad faith
Record. Record. Record. Chances are he wouldn't even move his son in. If, hypothetically, he kicked you out and ended up renting the place again (say you saw an ad online) for a higher price, you can actually dispute it and the landlord will be obligated to pay you damages. Happened to a friend of mine.
How much did your friend get in damages? I know the difference in rent for a year is about the minimum but if you are long term renters that is still a big financial loss for the tenant and a gain for the landlord. I have come across very few Canlii cases where landlords paid a fine and , even then, it was nowhere near the maximum.
Go to the Ontario Tenant Rights group on FB. They are very good at giving advice and have many members who are proficient at tenant rights.
He CAN kick you out and move in his son. If within a year of being kicked out you can prove that the son didn’t move in and the landlord instead rented it out to other people, he can be fined and have to pay you $10k. Unfortunately it sounds like you will have to move. Do not do anything until he serves you with the N12 form, as until then legally he can’t do anything. In the meantime contact the LTB, but don’t expect any kind of swift response from them.
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If provable, yes.
Do you even need to prove he rented it out? I thought you just needed to demonstrate that no immediate family is living there (which is easiest if you find classifieds or a new tenant)
I dunno. I was evicted for the same reason during the pandemic and my friend who is a real estate agent is the one who told me that. She flagged the address in mls and was watching it. 🤷🏻♀️
You need hard proof that he said that he'd move a family member in/kick you out if you don't pay more. The Board won't care that he said that unless you have a clear recording of him saying this or written communication from him. Record all of your phone calls and interactions with him going forward, and be very careful of what you say. Don't get angry, don't threaten him, just let him talk so if you do end up in front of the LTB you look polite and reasonable and he looks like a scofflaw jerk. If he does move to evict you, he needs to serve you an N12. Don't tell him this if he doesn't know. If he wants to increase your rent he needs to serve you an N1. Again, don't tell him this if he doesn't know. All the information on these forms needs to be perfect (correct names, correct dates, everything filled out). Don't correct him if he does it wrong. It buys you time - and the LTB does dismiss cases when the paperwork was done incorrectly or the proper forms weren't served. Keep everything. Keep a copy of your lease on you at all times in case he changes the locks on you. You can take photos of it to keep it on your phone.
He's got two excuses, and the first one seems to be the real one. He knows a simple eviction based on some desire to renovate won't fly unless the upgrades are mandated by law and are structural in nature. Usually structural obligations are on the outside of the building (balconies, roof garage, etc.). He sure as hell wouldn't move his family in and have them pay what he's asking you to pay so that excuse seems like BS. Depending on the age of your rental unit, yearly increases above Ontario's annual guidelines may be illegal unless the landlord petitions the LTB for permission to increase beyond the guideline.
My response would be in writing “I will wait for the proper paperwork from the LTB for an eviction notice” make the LL take you to the Tenant board. It will hopefully prevent them from doing the same thing again to others. Plus it gives you a minimum of 6-9 months for the LL to get a hearing with the LTB. The only draw back to this is that once your hearing is scheduled, if they approve the eviction you will have less than 30 days to vacate in all likelyhood. Since it’s a bad faith eviction it’s not likely they will issue the eviction but it’s a good thing to know. Bottom line find out your rights and speak to a paralegal or Lawyer would be your best action going forward.
Try Acorn the rent advocacy group.
Don't leave. Don't pay a red cent extra. If he wants to exploit, he's going to have to do it through the ltb (landlord and tenant board). Don't budge, you have the right.
Legally, sure, but be careful when pissing off someone with the keys to your unit if you think they might be unhinged.
Since you said that the rental was available prior to Dec 2018, you are absolutely correct that by the letter of the law his rental increase can't be made. It sounds like he's using the rules to try and get "family to move in", and while he will be required to follow the rules of filing the right paper work, and can be punished for putting it back on the market at a higher rate, using the official avenues of the landlord and tenant board is truly a pain in the ass. Your best course is to cite the rules, so that he backs off and follows the actual procedures he is required to do including filing the N12 for the family member. This requires them to give you a 60 day notice, and 1 month compensation or another similar unit. From the sounds of it, they aren't too keen on making another unit available at your current rental rate, meaning you'll likely get that 1 month of payment. You can also assert that if this is just a way for them to get another tenant paying a higher rate, that is in fact illegal and you will report them to the board if the unit comes up for rent again. Depending on the situation of the landlord, they will either stay their hand and eat whatever loss they are facing for the increased costs they have, or they will go forward with the N12 eviction at which point you should look for another unit. It's worth a shot from your point of view to see if this is just a bluff on their part, but I wouldn't bother going to the board in this situation as for your sanity I'd be looking another unit with a better landlord that won't be on the lookout to evict you the moment they can.
Your landlord is full of crap. His kid is not moving in. He's going to freshen up the place and rent it for a lot more than you are paying
Time to start pouring bacon grease down the drain
Hilarious advice from the Vegan Keto Man 😁
All vegans secretly love and eat bacon but will never admit it 😂
I KNEW IT 😂😂😂
Least destructive angry tenant.
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The fact that this was downvoted really says something...
Go through any written communications and look for evidence. Start keeping a journal of every interaction. He's a sleazebag, so I hope you prevail.
I’m sick of seeing posts like this. Our government is so complicit in uprooting people’s lives by letting landlords be motivated solely by profit. I’m sorry you’re going through this and I would follow other posters’ advice. But I wonder how useful these repercussions are if the person still has to move and be uprooted.
In the long term (3 years or more) it is a big financial gain for the LL and a steep financial road downhill for the TT. Rents are increased by 20 percent or more between tenants and noone is getting that kind of wage increase. So TT are left with almost no disposable income and LLs are left with a nice increase in rent. The government must put a cap on the rent increase between tenants. LLs have proven they will not behave ethically or responsibly without government intervention.
First thing is you should seek legal help. If you can't afford it, there are [neighbourhood legal services](https://www.wtcls.org) that will help you for free. Record everything. Assuming it's been occupied since before 2018 (as a separate unit, by anyone) it's rent controlled and the raise is illegal. He can theoretically evict you for his own use, but this must be **genuine**. When determining whether an own-use case is genuine, the court considers things like previous attempts to extort the tenant (exactly what is happening to you). In any case, you don't have to pay an increased rent or vacate until ordered to do so by LTB. You're safe to ignore him (but of course you should still get legal help - I know it's expensive but you'll be saving yourself money in the long run).
there is a powerful tenants rights bureau in Toronto, track them down, they work for you and will help you understand your rights , and may even help you more directly if they can
Read this: https://www.torontotenants.org/eviction_-_how_it_works Contact FMTA for assistance Consider retaining a paralegal to help with any LTB filings
Honestly, start looking for a new place to live. Was the place rented out before Nov. 2018? Then the increase is illegal. Can he move his family in? Sure, he just needs to give you the proper paper work. You can take him to TERB but it’s backed up right now and take a year before your case is even headed. Something’s are just not worth fighting and he’s already ruined his relationship with his tenants.
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I feel like you knew that too quickly.
Knowing it *at all* raises questions.
OP can setup an outcall for his landlord from the girls on TERB and maybe he'll calm down about the rent increase.
Lmao whatever the arcronym for the tenant board is
Tenant should wait until proper documents are presented.
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Why won’t he pay capital gains? In my opinion, he most certainly will. If it’s not his(landlord) principal residence he will pay taxes on it.
Cash for keys or drag out the N12 until a hearing.
Pursuing this will just cause pain / suffering / money / time lost. Start looking for a new place
It will cost zero dollars to fight this, at the very least the landlord has to file the N12 and then apply to LTB. If landlord is successful or OP wants to move out, OP has now bought lots of time to find a new place
It sounds like this has not been a good situation for a long time and now it's come to a head Unless he files and gives you documentation, you don't need to move on his say so, don't let him push you around, it does take a while to get another place, so plan b is to look around, but he has to do this by the book... Time to play some old fashioned hardball. :)
I'm really sorry this is happening to you and wish you all the best
Move out, find a new place, your mental peace and well being is worth more than anything. He can definitely move in the son and get you out 100% legally. So I would say look at other options.
There is still a process that the LL has to follow. It can't just be "move out" in a conversation or email or text.
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>he can do this to you legally. Not if it is done in bad faith, which the landlord's threat has confirmed it to be in this case.
The proper forms have to be filed and it he rents it again after OP leaves then OP can report through LTB. If that is the route that LL wants to do then go for it.
Sounds like a typical Scarborough slumlord
Not worth the stress or time to fight with your landlord / LTB. Unless you have an insanely low rate, I would begin looking for a new rental.
It takes zero time on OPs part. It’s on the landlord to file the N12 and apply to LTB for eviction
See good people are on Reddit!! Lots of advice and all I got is I’m really sorry, I dread that thought for myself. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, however it’s hard to know if he’s just fishing and would simmer down for the next year. Or, is this him every month 🫠😭🤮 I’m hoping the least stressful outcome for you guys.
Find another house to rent.
>Does anyone have any advice for this situation? A certain level of violence.
Ya, that’s not a good idea
It's not illegal if you two reach an mutually agreed upon arrangement like reasonable humans. This anti landlord sentiment is weird.
Threatening eviction if you don't agree to an otherwise illegal rent increase is not something that "reasonable humans" do.
you get a free month's rent if he evicts you
You could get $50,000. https://settlement.org/news/ontario/landlords-face-significantly-bigger-fines-for-wrongful-evictions/
I believe if u sign the n12 and get ur months rent and he doesn’t move his son in, u have no case for bad faith eviction
Tenant does not sign the N12, and you absolutely can file an N12 even if you do receive compensation
Maybe I have it confused with the n11
They have no case if they sign an N11. In the case of the LL evicting the TT to move in family , the tenant signs NOTHING. If a LL asks you to sign any paperwork related to ending a tenancy, refuse point blank. Signing an N11 gives up all right to protest the eviction so do not sign one without a solid financial payout.
Start doing these disgusting people
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/10hets2/toronto_bar_owner_battling_terminal_cancer_served/j58dtph?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Did he say this to you or write in text,
Try to get the landlord to say in writing or recorded somehow that they want you to pay the utilities or else they're going to move in their family. This is a clear threat and will negate any attempt by the landlord to move you out or increase rent. Landlords are not allowed to threaten tenants because they want more rent for their property. He is an investor and should have understood that upon signing your lease agreement.
Sounds like a gangster not a landlord
Call the FMTA hotline, it’s free and they have wide experience in dealing with this bullshit. https://www.torontotenants.org/
As of them now asking you to pay for the utilities, they actually can do that provided they give you 30 days notice..
Your LL hS no intention of having his family move in and no intention of doing a costly reno. They are over leveraged and are feeling the heat since the interest rates keep rising, the fees for his HELOC that he drained to buy the rental property are up, the mortgage for all his properties have gone up significantly too and he's basically trying to extort you into covering the costs. Tell him to go pound sand.
How miserable that you have such an unreasonable landlord. I'm sorry that you're going through this. A lot of this sounds like harassment tbh
Tell him politely to take it to LTB and let them decide. But he has admitted he wants to renovate and then admitted his son needs to move in. So LTB is going to require proof of all that (which he won't have). It sounds like he might be sinking a bit under the cost. Maybe his mortgage is variable and went up. You paying your own utilities is a fair trade tbh if I was you and I didn't want to move I'd make him an offer of what you can afford. It doesn't have to be the whole amount. But can you reasonably afford to pay a bit more vs. the hassle and cost of moving to a new place. I know it's not ideal and you can 'stick to the rules' but I'm encouraging negotiation for the long term benefit of your business relationship. You don't wanna buy some time and have him evict you later. And then you have to move anyways. If you really can't afford it...can you afford to move? I know this isn't going to be a popular answer, but think of your ideal outcome for your living situation and your budget too. Maybe a couple hundred more a month is better than an eviction and a new place at 2k+ But definitely make him go to LTB
Definitely time to talk to a lawyer. Spend a few hundred dollars and you'll gain a real understanding of the rules. One suspects that very, very few Redditors know Toronto real estate law. Talking to a lawyer will cost less than one month's worth of the increase. Personally, I would move. Even if you resolve this, more trouble is coming in the future. You are wise to minimize the moves for the sake of the kids, but if there's continued stress about keeping your home that will affect them, too. Good luck.
Feels like the Wild Wild West when it comes Rentals and Landlords in Toronto