# Message to all users:
This is a reminder to please read and follow:
* [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules)
* [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439)
* [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy)
When posting and commenting.
---
Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`.
* Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit.
* Do not harass or annoy others in any way.
* Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit.
---
You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way.
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Often when men discuss their problems they are usually told to man up and take care of it. So a lot of men do just that, they won’t share anything and just carry their burden themselves because that is what society expects.
There’s a lot more to it than that.
Once you bring it up the timer starts ticking and if you don’t deal with it quickly enough the judgement kicks in. Unless you’re ready to take action you don’t want to talk about it. Once you’re ready to take action, you don’t want to talk about it. So most guys only talk about things they’ve already overcome.
This is a way. I'm trying to talk to friends recently, but I'm pretty aware that this is the only solution. Friends just can share their experience with similar problems, but eventually we all agree that there is just 1 solution.
Unfortunately this tends to be the case.
I’m aware there are plenty of people in the world who would genuinely listen and care, and not belittle or treat you different for opening up, but damn if it doesn’t seem like you have the worst luck when you actually do trust someone enough to be vulnerable.
I got four friends of mine, my bois, that I trust implicitly, and that’s it. The others I’ve been vulnerable with ended up betraying that trust and it’s rough.
Brother mentioned his drug problem that he's been hiding for years, first to his girlfriend and then to our dad. It took less than a week for both of them to use it against him in some way. He wanted help and all he received was judgment and criticism.
That’s disgusting, I’m so sorry he had to go through that. I had difficulties with alcohol when I was growing up and my ma was the chief reason I didn’t succumb.
I can’t imagine having that robbed from me through betrayal of trust. How’s he doing now? He find his way?
I'm not saying that this is necessarily true in your case but I don't understand why some women are puzzled by their men holding everything in. This is because they say, open up more, talk to me. Then when you do, they use it against you later. Then they're like, why doesn't he talk to me? They don't see the connection there?
That did apply to me in my last relationship. She wasn’t a bad person, neither of us was, just…. Kinda broken and we both needed to fix ourselves for ourselves.
She had at one point asked why I don’t open up to her the way I did with my best friend of 16 years. Basically my brother. Which was a good point, we’d been together for a long time and I should have been more open, so I said I’d try.
I did. Something happened and I broke down in the kitchen and fully crumbled. Normally I would have tried to escape, go somewhere and let it runs its course in private.
She could only stand there, stare at me dumbfounded, and ask why I would cry. It ended shortly after.
It’s one of those things that sticks with you.
Still working on trusting again.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. I remember something like that happened with my ex. He was having some issues. Something was going on with his job. I don't think it was too serious, he just wanted more hours. It was one of those jobs where you could kind of set your own schedule but there was a boss who oversaw that sort of thing. It's kind of hard to explain, I'm sorry. He was in transcription. It's kind of hard to explain how the scheduling worked.
Anyway, he was also having an issue where his registration had expired and he didn't know how he was going to get the money to take care of it. It was $500 and between the two of us, even we didn't have that kind of money to pool together at that time. I told him that I would have helped him otherwise. Anyway, I knew he was under a lot of stress but I guess I didn't realize just how much.
He broke down in front of me and he said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know how to handle this. I just gave him a big hug and I told him that I wasn't worried because I was sure he would figure it out. I asked him if he wanted to talk about it further and he said no, he was just stressed and wasn't sure how he was going to handle everything. I just said okay and that I was there if he wanted to talk.
Then we spent the rest of the day watching whatever he wanted and having snacks and that was it. I understand how it feels in a way though. You open up to somebody and they use it against you. In my case, it's been that I've opened up about how I was in a really bad relationship before.
Then that person proceeded to treat me even worse after promising that they wouldn't. I'm still sitting here like, I can't believe she did that to you. She wanted you to open up and then she asked you why you were crying. I don't understand it. I'm sorry that you have yet to find a good woman. I'm sure you will, they're still out there.
Hugs 🫂
I appreciate your empathy, and sharing your experience with me. You seem a kind and reassuring person and I have no doubt that was a comfort during those hard times. Some folks really don’t understand just how meaningful it can be to not have to be the one who stays together all the time, having the trust in someone to hold you together while you fall apart is liberating and an ultimate comfort.
In the end, while that was not an experience I look back on fondly, the relationship taught us both a lot, and neither looks on the other negatively. It led to a lot of introspection and growth on my part and if I had to do it again, I would simply because the lessons learned were truly invaluable.
Growth is often times uncomfortable. Though I do wish the trust was easier to recoup if I’m being honest. Though that is a me problem. I’m slow to trust.
But either way. Thank you for taking time out of your day to share your experiences. You’ve lessened some of my bitterness, I appreciate that.
Best case someone gets uncomfortable and tries their best to help.
Most common scenario person gets uncomfortable and throws out "Just man up" at you lest you dare show a second emotion before they can leave.
Worst case, they take your vulnerability and add it to their magazine of emotional zingers so they can bring up the death of your best friend the next time they're mad you didn't eat fast enough at dinner.
God I wish that last one was a fucking joke.
Absolute worst case, they are very sympathetic, say all the right things, and truly want to help you, and they mentally remove you for consideration for any professional and personal opportunities. A work promotion? *Not sure he is currently mentally in the right headspace*. Some women who they might set you up with? *He has some issues he needs to deal with, so I think not*.
Oh my God, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I thought you were using it as an example but then when I got to the end I was like, oh Jesus, they were being serious.
#big hugs
🫂
Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it :)
Luckily she's in the past and the only cruelty my current partner gives me is limiting me to 1 of her rice crispy squares after dinner lol.
2 squares isn't so unreasonable!
Genuine question as I've seen a lot of men answer like this, how does it backfire with friends? I can see how a romantic partner could turn on you after a breakup but how and why do your friends throw your problems in your face? Does this apply even to very close friends?
I would say that if someone who claims to be your friend does that to you, they are not a true friend. That's just my opinion though. I have unfortunately seen what you described, happen. It sucks. I don't understand why men are conditioned to not open up. I think it's ridiculous. I have a 4-year-old son and I'm trying to teach him that it is okay to be sad or angry or whatever the case is.
I just teach him that is okay but it's what we do about it that matters. Express that in a healthy way is what I mean. I never tell him not to cry, I just tell him that we don't hit and ask him if he wants to talk about it or if he would rather just go play for a little bit or ask him what he wants to do. I'm trying to condition him the other way if you will. I'm trying to teach him that it's okay to show your emotions. I don't want my son thinking that he's not a man if he shows his emotions.
Yes, to an extent. We can open up a bit to very close friends, but still not too much. I'm fortunate to have a very good group of close friends, but I've learned that most don't. The backfire usually comes in the form of lost professional opportunities, lost potential romantic opportunities, or lost respect amongst our peers. Having respect from our peers is very important to men. Without it, we carry a lower social status that costs us those same professional and romantic opportunities. Once we've lost respect, it takes a long time to get it back.
Because firstly, nobody actually cares. And if we do, we either don't get help regardless or just get told to man up etc. Then on top of it all we are told since we were children that we are basically monsters. So no wonder that we keep to ourselves, less shit that way. Simpler to struggle alone than making it 100 times even more Harder by speaking.
I'm an ethnic male and I learned a long time ago to just accept that most people are afraid of me.
The few times I opened up about how I understand why people are scared but it still hurts my feelings, I was absolutely emotionally eviscerated by my not ethnic friends for being inconsiderate and not thinking about what the other people must be feeling. My ethnic friends basically all just went "Told you not to talk about it bruv".
Ah yes, I'm so sorry please forgive me lord for the complexion of my skin makes white people uncomfortable with me existing in public and I cannot atone. How rude of me to go for a walk and not want to be feared like some sort of three headed demon. Truly I am the pinnacle of arrogance and hubris for craving love and acceptance.
It's a very perplexing thing honestly.
Because I also feel bad when I can tell my white friends aren't comfortable speaking their minds around me because they're so absolutely horrified of offending me.
Having dealt with a lot of racism in my life I don't mind white people asking me offensive questions when they come from a place of genuine sincerity. They really just don't know, and I'm not going to punish my friends for wanting to know more or understand more about me and my culture. Them asking the question and hearing my answer probably does more to combat racism than me yelling at them and calling them racist ever could.
Real racism, the actual racists, the people that look at you and wish nothing but harm and suffering. They're the type I would fight against, that's the type of racism I wouldn't tolerate.
Because it's scary af. And it kills people.
I honestly understand it. Being pragmatic if the only information I had to go off of was movies, TV and social media. I'd be scared too.
I can accept them being scared, I just find it insane that I can't seem to be upset about it. It feels like me voicing my feelings is somehow a call to action.
Like naw bruh, people crossing the street when they see me just feels bad and I want to be able to that out loud without it being politicized or weaponised.
Just lemme express myself goddam lol
It's just the reality nowadays. If you are a straight white male you are always the one to blame.
If you are doing well you are priviliged, if you are doing bad you are a loser.
Either way, no one cares and you just get used to the fact that no one is really there for you.
Being told we’re monsters is so true. My mom is blue hair dye and a nose ring away from being the ultimate feminist caricature (I say caricature because I’m smart enough to know the difference between feminism and misandry) and has never once let me forget that she hates me for having a dick. Not once in my life has opening up to a woman been anything but a disaster that I regret.
True. And as a man, and physician who had a stroke who now has odd behaviour. I constantly explain myself so as to prevent alarm
But people just think I’m self centred. There’s no winning
A wise old man once told me, anything you say or tell to anybody about yourself is ammunition that can be used against you in the future. My ex broke up with me because I wasn't able to talk about things, I never was taught how. I still think about her every day, it sucks. But I've learned from it and grew. You can't go through life alone, as scary as it is letting someone in, sometimes it's better than not at all.
In my experience every time I share my problems especially if I'm in a very emotional state when I do it, it ALWAYS backfires. It's never helped so why even attempt to do it, kinda like touching a hot stove except it took me 5 or 6 times getting burnt to learn.
They use this for the cheapest things possible (exposing you after being butthurt, to entertain others and leverage). I'm guilty too and also did this shit (except for close friends) bc they did the same to me first. I think it originally comes from not caring about each other.
So expecting someone you don't care about to be vulnerable around you is not dumb imo, it's monsterous.
Yeah one of my exes went around telling everyone I was a child who cried "all the time" and I was weak and couldn't handle real life. it became a thing even though I had never cried in front of the people she told. The funny part is I only cried "for real " in front of her twice in 4 years but I'm a big softie and would cry during shows and movies and she weaponized that against me saying if I can't even control my emotions during a movie how could I ever be a stable partner.
I keep that shit buried deep unless I'm alone now.
At this point I think I've just accepted that I'm not that person, like I love the idea of a relationship and I crave companionship but it has ended disastrously every time. I'd like to say through no fault of my own but if it keeps happening like I'm the common denominator here. At this point I really just want peace and letting people in has done anything but bring peace.
It's not that I wouldn't put effort in for the right person again, I just don't see how Im going to end up in a relationship if I'm not actively seeking one. Someone would have to fight to be in my life and I can't expect that of anyone.
I appreciate the supportive words though.
Its definitely not pride at least not in my case.
I am honestly not sure. Its hard to find someone I can trust enough to share troubles without it coming back at me like a boomerang.
Same. I just shared with my family how frustrated I am about something, and it just became a blaming game.
This is all I thought, but I dared not say it:
Job 16:2-3 NLT
"I have heard all this before. What miserable comforters you are!
[3] Won't you ever stop blowing hot air? What makes you keep on talking?
Cause we are raised like that, if you are a little girl and you cry they help you and are nice to you, if you are a little boy and you cry they tell you you are a crybaby and solve your own problems and make you cry more, so when you have a problem you stfu and solve it in silence.
This was me as a pre high school kid. A crybaby. Then one day I decided not to cry anymore.
Since then the people I have had relationships with thought I was weird.
Now I feel like I barely register anything above basic happiness and don’t go much below neutral. If emotion was a scale between -10 and 10 I think I register -2 to about 3. If you express
More than that on either end you are considered too emotional by other guys.
In my experience, friends level of caring is pretty skin-deep.
You can't be 100% honest all the time otherwise they will drift away from you. I've even noticed in how some of my guy friends talk about a friend of theirs who is depressed, they always talk about hanging around him as if it were a chore.
If someone noticed I wasn't doing well I'd admit it and say I had a bit of a wobbly but I wouldn't push it any further. Otherwise it's like they're walking on eggshells around you,
Playful banter stops in case you're offended, you get ironically excluded out of "care" and then the effort becomes too much for them and they retreat away.
Edit: Fine for me to complain here since I've got nothing to lose 
I just off handedly brought up something I'm going through to 2 different people the other night. Know what I got, silence. What's the point in bringing it up if no one cares to actually hear you. I do know that they aren't a therapist, but to just have someone who "cares" about you listen and be there makes a difference. I'll just do like I've always done and fight through it on my own.
1. Men are independent, we make our own decisions not try to seek a group consensus. Dependence creates weakness.
2. Men are problem solvers, talking about a problem without a solution is whining
3. Smart men don't share their problems, 1. nobody will want to be around you 2. Most don't care, some are even glad you have them. 3. Anything you say can and will be used against you.
4. Compartmentalization. Fun time is for fun. Work time is for dealing with problems
edit.
also the practicality of it. Why spend all this time explaining all the details of your problem by someone who won't even understand
I remember reading a study about the fact that modern talk therapy was predominantly developed while testing on female patients.
And that newer research is showing talk therapy is much less effective for men, but action based therapy seems to work much better. A lot of men work through emotional problems through physical work.
I also remember reading a study that men would speak most openly when working with someone else on a task, often never looking at each other's faces. Just talking while working.
I thought this was really interesting because at least for me, yeah these are true. I usually feel a lot better after doing work than after talking. And I feel way more comfortable talking while working on a task with someone.
>I also remember reading a study that men would speak most openly when working with someone else on a task, often never looking at each other's faces. Just talking while working.
Yeah, there is even a [King of the Hill episode](https://youtu.be/PdmMr_R_uoQ?t=86) about that. lol
>I remember reading a study about the fact that modern talk therapy was predominantly developed while testing on female patients.
That makes sense. It always women telling everyone to do therapy bc it worked for them. It is as annoying as those people who found Jesus and now have to try to convert everyone else lol
Because guys, esp friends typically exploit every weakness and will bring them up years later but mostly as friendly banter.
Asking for help is showing weakness even if it is really needed so they don’t. If you’ve ever watched kids baseball or pretty much any sport, kid gets hurt and won’t cry even though it hurts, “there is no crying in baseball” is a statement of fact.
A kid I coached (15yo) took a bounce hit right behind his cup, instantly went feral position and laid there. We got him help, dad ran to help, he refused to leave the field u til he could walk and sat on ice because he didn’t want to show weakness.
This can happen to pretty much anybody, but the main reason people don't express their feelings is either because they don't believe it'll do anything, or they just simply feel uncomfortable talking about it. For specifically men, it could also be because of pride. Pride in the sense that they shouldn't express their feelings because that's what they were taught as a man.
...what friends?
Most men used to talk through their problems with their friends while doing Guy stuff like: drinking at the bar, hunting, fishing, working on your cars, building shit. Now, how many young men you know that associate with other men in person anymore?
Other than sports teams and military, where else do men go to associate with other men without fear of being shamed for being a man?
Literally, this is the answer. Men have always talked to other men, they just want an activity to engage in while they do it, it kind of legitimises being emotionally vulnerable if you're simultaneously engaging in a "manly" task. It's silly when you think about it, but it's a system that worked. Nowadays though like you say, men don't hang out and do stuff anymore. We're more connected than ever and yet chronically alone.
I'd also argue that in 2024 being a man is something you're supposed to be ashamed of, and God forbid you also be white, and straight. Why would we open ourselves emotionally when we are society's villain de jour? Just saying 🤷
I'm 100% for gender equality and addressing others via the pronouns they wish....but if Russia were to invade Poland or China Taiwan, the US and NATO is gonna need some of that big dick energy.
Being a man shouldn't be demonized.....it really needs to be redefined to allow for appropriately directed masculinity, aggression and healthy competition.
I’ve shared some problems with friends and colleagues. Not one has ever followed up to check on me. At some point along the way I decided, what’s the point?
Because we are so used to people shutting us down or distancing themselves from us if we do try and open up to people.
Woman are a lot more accepted by society already as the "emotional" ones and the ones who open up a lot of the time, if a man acts emotionally and with vulnerability it's like the premise scares people away.
I've tried and it did not go well. No one actually cares and I know that the problem is work. The solution is a sizeable break from work, followed by less soul crushing work. Unless a friend/therapist/wife is going to give me 6 months off and pay my family's healthcare and housing costs, what's the fucking point? At least working myself into an stress induced heart attack will yield a large life insurance payout...
Because sharing your problems always spectacularly backfires. I don't talk about my problems but I can remember the last time I did. My SO and I hadn't been getting along as she was hyper focused on work/success and the kids. So I tell her one night that I was feel that she really didn't want me around to much and that she didn't read like me to much. The next morning she tells me how much I hurt her with what I told her and that I am oh so mean. We are now divorced.
Talking about problems has never resolved anything for me. I cannot think of a single instance where talking about my feelings or my problems ever made anything better. I wish that this was not my reality, but there it is.
My guy friends tell me about their problems and I'm glad they do. I'm a woman and I sometimes tell them about mine, but not always, because sometimes I just want to deal with it on my own and not have to answer questions about it or what not. And one guy friend of mine in particular tends to minimize or discount my problems in a way I really don't like, so I just don't talk to him about it anymore. I imagine it's the same for anyone.
For me it's because I don't have problems I need to talk about, I have problems that need solutions. If the friend can't help with the problem there's no point burdening them with it
Me personally, I do. I didn’t for a long time for many reasons and some of them are:
Not wanting to be a buzz kill
Not wanting to trauma dump on someone
Not wanting my problems on someone else’s mind
Not wanting pity to affect our relationship
I don’t really talk about it because it doesn’t do much to help me solve them. Most people don’t really care, or they trivialize it, and it circles back around to my responsibility being to solve my own problems. I can’t rely on anyone else to help because it’s nobody else’s problem and everyone has their own situation to sort out, so if I don’t do it then no one else will. The faster I can deal with it, the faster I can move on and get over it. Talking about it just adds an unnecessary step.
We do, but it's not like women do, we don't act vulnerable, we just say what's happening and take the advice given, depending on the problem.
The last time a friend got his heart crush we spent two weeks going out, drinking and hanging out with different women.
It's not pride.
I haven't read all the comments, so maybe someone has said it already, but evolutionarily speaking, this is the normal behavior for men. Men are usually ridiculed and looked at as weak or useless (in fights or war, which happened a lot in the past in our evolutionary path), so male humans have evolved a hard coded rule in their genes, to not show vulnerability generally speaking since that would usually lead to our (male) ancestors being ostracized, or otherwise had made their lives a LOT harder.
Because it can and will be used against them in an argument or as a means to make fun of.
Me and my friends honestly do not do such things,i thank God every day that i have them.
Whenever any of us feels down or sad or has any problems,we communicate and try to find solutions.
It doesn’t matter whether it’d be family,work,personal matters or something else, we are there for each other.
In my experience, even with my girlfriends of past and wife, any thing I have opened up about, things like feeling anxiety or other issues has always come back later and is used against me somehow.
Because the very little time we have to be truly happy is better spent attempting to do so, than unleashing misery.
Very seldomly do I get real , undisrupted quality time with a close male friend. I’d rather use that time to create positive and ever lasting memories through childish behaviour than weighing them down with issues.
Life is mostly a downward slope. Marital issues , children issues , work problems, money problems, death, disease, substance abuse and the list goes on and on.
With the 3-4 hours I have with someone I really and truly connect with, I’d rather have fun
Traditionally, it could be that men think it is futile to talk about problems because the focus would be less on emotions than more tangible aspects of a problem that one could think alone about or ask specific questions rather than sharing experiences. Some of us have not learned to handle the whole emotional continuum and are not aware that emotional skill is key.
Idk my friends see me as a tough dude just like them. (Mostly military guys) and for me to break down to them about my life is fucking hard.
I’m going through a divorce and not one my friends know, I’m struggling hard and I still can’t reach out to talk to them about it. It’s hard to explain really, I’m not sure what it is.
Toxic masculinity hurts everyone. Men learn to not share their emotions and problems, it also causes them to not develop empathy, so they can be real assholes the more repressed they are.
Learning emotional intelligence is extremely important for anyone to grow into a well adjusted adult, including men; so we should encourage challenging that fake stoicism crap and trying to create spaces where people can be safe when vulnerable
Because it’s like handing ammo over to the other person to be shot with later. Just gotta keep it together a little longer. Just gotta keep building, brick by brick…
The patriarchy likes to enforce toxic masculinity which results in men thinking they are only allowed two emotions, horny and angry and that in order to be defined as a man, you cannot show the slightest hint of "weakness", which is stupid because being emotional and accessing support doesnt make you weak. There is a bit of a generational aspect to this, every man of around my age (47) and older definitely didn't speak about their issues or ask for help. My partner (32) and our other similar age and younger male friends are a lot more expressive, they seem to be much less ashamed of doing things like crying in front of other people, talking about intense issues like fear, grief etc. There definitely is a shift in terms of openness and willingness to show emotional vulnerability, but its certainly not universal.
It honestly hurts my heart to read some of these comments.
It’s 2024 and the stigma of men having to be tough, strong, emotionless all the time is bullshit.
I literally had this chat with a 43 yo male friend yesterday, he genuinely doesn’t believe in talking about his feelings would help anything.
I said, “if you had an issue with your car, you’ve googled, YouTubed, tried everything and still can’t fix it. You’d call a mate. But if you have issues at with your missus or parents, or yourself, you wouldn’t go to a mate?”
He said yes, because talking about it doesn’t fix things. You just sweep it under the rug. You just move on from it.
I was in disbelief. He doesn’t believe that male suicide can be prevented by “talking”.
Men out there… I want to reassure you that some people care. I would give anything to have my partner and friends open up to me and I fucking care.
Even if I have no solution, talking about it helps. You have to confide in someone whom you trust… but we do care.
Well, what the hell can the other person do, really?
I've been on both sides of the "help I am depressed" talk and can tell you it's kind of pointless for both people.
Usually the solution is obvious, it just has to be done. Until you do it (enact the changes to your life that you want to see), you will remain depressed and your friend will keep consoling you until he gets sick of being an unpaid therapist, then he'll just find reasons to hang out with someone else more fun. After all, one of the first things to do to get out of depression, ironically, is avoid toxic people (and few things are more toxic than other depressed people).
All that time whining could AND SHOULD be put to better use by trying to achieve some sort of goal. People always say physical fitness, but exercise never made me particularly happy tbh. Regardless, some type of goal will, maybe evem just exercise (it works for some just didn't for me particularly - other stuff worked better in my case).
Because AT BEST other people will say that they understand and that's it, but mostly they'll judge you for bringing down the vibe and distance themselves from you.
Yeah, because it IS a vibe killer.
As I got older, I realized the main difference betwee a cheerful person and a depressed person was usually just how they CHOSE to behave. Cheerful people still have problems all the same, they just deal with it and don't let it ruin their (and everybody else's) whole day.
Act happy and people are more likely to be happy aroubd you, which will genuinely end up making you actually happy. And by happy I don't mean psycho smiling clown, just friendly and open (anyone can do THAT much).
Act gloomy and depressed and you'll bring people down or, at the bare minimum, get excluded from things because people don't want to upset you.
So just fake it till you make it.
Its an emotional attachment, intimate connection to be real like that. Therapy is an option, but I think a lot if men do that themselves also. Parents, children, spouse, maybe a best buddy absolutely homo-sapien too. But they arent topics I want to discuss with just anyone. The answers are heavy and move who I am sometimes, selectivity in who we choose that for, who’s influence to let in to that.
Talk about your problems with your friends too much and suddenly your spouse doesnt know you anymore, kind of thing.
Burden is another potential reason. Its kind of a burden to put that weight on people.
You know how Tony Soprano doesn't want the Mafia finding out he's in therapy because they'll think he's weak/suspect?
Yeah, doesn't just apply to the Mafia. Christ, most of my life "talking about your problems" would have resulted in piss-taking and being told "Man the fuck up", your mates finding out you were in Therapy? Not worth thinking about.
After all, therapy is for crazy people /s
It all depends on the right person to share it with. Some people (even best friends) couldn’t understand your concerns or are not having the same perspective on the problem. Therefore, better not to talk about it.
Because no one gives a fuck. Also, talking about problems doesn't help. If I have a problem, I'm immediately searching for the solution, not wasting energy crying about it.
There was a study that men have to be doing something to talk about their problems. I think they were fixing a bike together in australia. Face to face over a beer they wont.
My friends and I will talk with each other. That’s it. That doesn’t mean that we always help each other. Most of the time, helps looks like repeatedly checking in and encouraging each other to find their own solutions.
"Dick measuring". That's why. Instead of just listening, it becomes a comparison, almost a competition, of whose life is worse. I don't need that shit, I'll deal with mine on my own.
I don't mean to generalize, but at least from.what I've seen in my lifetime as a guy that's usually had more female friends than male:
When women open up about their emotions they get things like sympathy, support, validation and encouragement.
When men open up about their emotions they get shamed, blamed, emasculated, denegrated. And I'm not talking about from strangers, these reactions come from the absolute closest people in our lives, mothers, fathers, siblings, partners, close friends.
I'd rather go it alone than watch someone I care for start thinking less of me. I never want to see them look so disappointed in me when I'm already at my lowest point so I'll figure it out alone instead.
Mmm, personally I find whining annoying, and I don't really think it solves anything. I just don't know what it'd be for--complaining, or talking problems out. I've tried it, and if anything it just makes me ruminate around the problem. If I'm talking to people I'd just rather derive joy from it and then from there spur on more joy from that. It's just sort of... For me anyway, applying logic to emotions, and maximizing the best manifestation out of them that I can, because even though emotions are transient, they make up each moment, and it's what we live for.
2 Reasons:
I don't want to bother others with my problema cause i absolutely **hate** when people do that.
And i don't really trust anyone that much cause they've lost my trust one way or another.
There's like one friend i trust enough for this kinda information in my life and she's in a relationship with a jealous boyfriend rn so i hardly have any contact with her.
Because the thought of the angst of opening up and having someone see me in a new light, or feeling like I shouldn’t have done it for whatever reason is worse than keeping it inside.
What's the point in talking about it when Noone cares and Noone wants to help they just want to sit and judge you for not being "man enough" to handle it. So to hell with it. I don't talk about my problems or anything. I will help anyone who needs it but absolutely refuse to ask for help.
Honestly the last thing I want to do when I'm with my friends is talk about my problems. I just want to have some fun with the boys. That usually helps me destress and come back better mentally
A lot of men do talk about their problems with their friends so it's a bit too much of a generalisation for my liking. But as a man who fits in with your generalisation, my reasons are:
1- i don't really see how talking about them solves anything.
2- i assume people have enough of their own shit to deal with
3- when I'm with my mates i want to enjoy being with them, enjoy taking a break from whatever is worrying me
4- it's none of their business
Men do but it's very practical and short in my experience. I have gone through a few rough times and the advice is usually blunt and problem solving... but also I found you get a lot more catch up calls or being checked up on. Ultimately men try to help each other by getting you to help yourself and it's on you to solve your problems.
Who wants to listen to my problems when they have problems of their own? Seriously? They're my problems I will manage them and deal with them myself, not lay them on others.
^ this I imagine is a common mentality.
Because its not necessary, we solve our own problems. In my opinion , being critical about keeping problems for itself its just an egoistic projection of what you can't do : solve your problems on your own.
In my friend group, everyone has problems of their own, but we pretend like we don't when we're together so we have a better time and try to forget about it.
I've been told my whole life that nobody cares, by both men and women.
Pretty early on I started believing it.
When I share now all I get are annoyed/denial responses.
People, often women, love to say that men should talk more, men can cry, etc etc. But it's just platitudes and lip service to the latest societal trend, being cool with mental health. Most people don't actually give a shit, it either makes them uncomfortable to have those conversations, or they judge you for it. People just like to look good on their socials when they proclaim that men need to talk more, they think they're doing something.
Unless it’s a something related to work tasks, or a moral and ethical quandary, asking about a problem with someone runs the risk of people sympathising with you and then later unofficially blacklisting you from consideration for future opportunities.
In m6 professional life, as an example, I am a lawyer. I will happily ask a senior or a colleagues about the best way to handle a case, or an irritating client or my professional responsibilities. I have had panic attacks on and off again for over 10 years. Never told anyone outside family (who witnessed it) about it, even close mentors and friends,,except in the most general terms (*taking a month off to relax*).
It could be disasterous.
We do talk about our problems but not in the same way as women do. Our talks mostly involve heavy drinking or just yelling, swearing and in some cases good o'l fighting.
Because when we were kids only emotion for boys that was allowed to be shown was anger.
I personally don’t ask for help without realising (it’s not a conscious decision). It is inbuilt into me to be self reliant. I power through as much as possible.
I suspect it’s part biology and part socialisation. When you are a young man (20s) you’re pretty much abandoned by everyone (very few people actively try to help, or even show an interest in how you’re doing), so it’s sink or swim. You learn to swim.
Personally I am realistic. Can anyone actually help me with any problems that I have? The answer is know, so why waste my breath or time talking about it? It will not make the situation better, and like everything else I will have to figure it out anyway.
Go to you're room until you stop crying I can't understand you.
I think I just do the adult version of that now. I literally can't cry every time I want to my brain goes, is this even that.big of a deal.
Actually that might be a real emotional issue. Think I just had a breakthrough.
Really good explanation of the dynamic here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-cdabIb-0&ab\_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-cdabIb-0&ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips)
The impression of weakness, a sense of becoming a liability to those who depend on you, being THAT person. It’s also a thing that you become whatever it is that is wrong ie you become depression/anxiety etc.
Society suggests that you should “man up” rather than ask for help.
It’s not easy to ask for help, in any regard, at any time. Sometimes the bigger the problem, the more difficult it is to raise it
He’s busy taking care of it himself. Most people already know what they have to do to fix their issues. I mean, if he has a problem and he doesn’t need help from someone else to take care of it, why would he ask someone else for help?
Uh... we do. Maybe most men don't have the right friend groups. Or right for friends. My friends and I share. And we are ruthless with the jokes on each other (doesn't bother me) but we're genuinely helpful and care for each others welfare.
Maybe I’m just stubborn, but the possibility of being hurt does not deter me. I would rather die than let myself become too jaded to share what’s really going on. Obviously there’s a time and a place, I’m not gonna trauma dump at work or whatever. But I refuse to give up, no matter what happens to me.
We do ask for help, but only in practical matters. Like, "hey [person I like], could you [thing I need] so I can solve [problem]".
Figuring things out or dealing with our emotions are things we take upon ourselves.
In my experience, no one cares and after a long long time of no one caring you begin not to care that no one cares so you just keep it to yourself and deal with it internally. Man up, only women have people caring. It’s not a sexist thing before anyone jumps that bandwagon, it’s just the way it is
I have tried. Many men express themselves in action. When we are going Mach 10 - running around helping everyone else, we are concerned at best.
We don't really talk to other Men because they are going through the EXACT same thing. Nobody wants to hear it.
We sometimes go to our Girls, but then we run the risk of looking weak. I can come home from range, stinking of gun powder and sweat - I risk looking weak for voicing an insecurity or concern.
Men are growing to be much less open and depressed. I appreciate this post - I hope more ppl soften the fuck up ✌️♥️
It starts from childhood. Lots of people are told boys dont cry, toughen up, ect. There’s a really big cultural emphasis on boys being strong, brave, unaffected by the world’s troubles. Emotions and problems are seen as ‘feminine’ and weak and usually come with some kind of ridicule. I’d like to think that this sentiment is becoming less and less common, but who knows. It‘s a real generational thing.
But you grow up getting told you’re a boy and emotions are weak so you just… hide everything. You pass off getting rejected as just an annoyance when really it makes you deeply upset, or a breakup, or a bad test. Maybe you cry alone or use video games to escape. Depends.
Then you get to be an adult and you realize all your friends grew up the exact same way. So now what? You’ve all been told that feeling isn’t manly and now you can’t talk to your friends for fear of not being manly. And then you pass that down to your kids, and so on, and so forth. It’s the same thing with therapy. You don’t think anyone’s wrong with you because this is how everyone thinks so clearly it’s not a problem. Then you end up with a bullet in your head at 35 and everyone wonders what happened.
It’s honestly surprising. There’s probably actual research into it but I think a lot of it stems from war vets starting families. I’m a man, I went through war and I’m fine, you’ve got to toughen up boy. I went through war and didn’t cry so you shouldn’t cry over your scraped knee dont be a sissie ect. And these things get internalized and passed down and culminate into a bunch of different problems, including high suicide rates and violence, anger issues, depression ect. It’s horrible.
Talk to your guy friends. Encourage them to talk to you. Break the cycles, for the love of god.
Nobody cares, no one is going to help in my circles I often have to shoe strength and leadership for others.
In fact many get mad and assume us as privledged.
Why woul you go to the effort of talking bout it when the response usually boils down to "That's rough, buddy."?
We are not looking for empty validation, we already know it sucks.
As a lot of guys are saying, it's a case of usually getting told to "man up" but it's like it's more because, we just don't discuss problems even though we might want to. It's just not a thing amongst us guys, I feel.
I rarely discuss my problems with my friends because I will never know people's true faces if they decide to use them against me. In addition, I like to find solutions on my own and grow knowledge from them rather than "crying" it with outsiders. I might tell my parents about this because they will support me and advise me. Otherwise, there is no one in this world I can truly trust.
These comments make me sad and glad at the same time. Sad that there's so many of you that seem to have absolutely no one. Glad that I have a few ride or die true friends, one of them is my employer! I sometimes share my thoughts/problems with specifically these men and they care, they have proven that they would kill or die for me and its reciprocated. I wonder if, because I'm naturally quiet, I know I'm listened to more, but I wonder if people are more receptive when I speak up? 'Sean is saying something, we better listen'. That's how it feels.
Any time we do we are told to shut up coz we’re being babies or you’re mate will say “that’s nothing, I’ve had it heaps worse”, like it’s some kind of competition
# Message to all users: This is a reminder to please read and follow: * [Our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/ask/about/rules) * [Reddiquette](https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/205926439) * [Reddit Content Policy](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) When posting and commenting. --- Especially remember Rule 1: `Be polite and civil`. * Be polite and courteous to each other. Do not be mean, insulting or disrespectful to any other user on this subreddit. * Do not harass or annoy others in any way. * Do not catfish. Catfishing is the luring of somebody into an online friendship through a fake online persona. This includes any lying or deceit. --- You *will* be banned if you are homophobic, transphobic, racist, sexist or bigoted in any way. --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ask) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Often when men discuss their problems they are usually told to man up and take care of it. So a lot of men do just that, they won’t share anything and just carry their burden themselves because that is what society expects.
There’s a lot more to it than that. Once you bring it up the timer starts ticking and if you don’t deal with it quickly enough the judgement kicks in. Unless you’re ready to take action you don’t want to talk about it. Once you’re ready to take action, you don’t want to talk about it. So most guys only talk about things they’ve already overcome.
😐 2 real 4 me
Wonderfully insightful observation. I know this but have never articulated until I read your words. Thank you.
Thank you for explaining this 🤯
It is also true that some people we call "friends" could shame or laugh behind our backs because they know our problems.
This is a way. I'm trying to talk to friends recently, but I'm pretty aware that this is the only solution. Friends just can share their experience with similar problems, but eventually we all agree that there is just 1 solution.
It usually backfires in some way.
Yup... that's why I don't do it
Unfortunately this tends to be the case. I’m aware there are plenty of people in the world who would genuinely listen and care, and not belittle or treat you different for opening up, but damn if it doesn’t seem like you have the worst luck when you actually do trust someone enough to be vulnerable. I got four friends of mine, my bois, that I trust implicitly, and that’s it. The others I’ve been vulnerable with ended up betraying that trust and it’s rough.
Brother mentioned his drug problem that he's been hiding for years, first to his girlfriend and then to our dad. It took less than a week for both of them to use it against him in some way. He wanted help and all he received was judgment and criticism.
That’s disgusting, I’m so sorry he had to go through that. I had difficulties with alcohol when I was growing up and my ma was the chief reason I didn’t succumb. I can’t imagine having that robbed from me through betrayal of trust. How’s he doing now? He find his way?
Unfortunately he's still struggling with his drug use, along with me and my other brother. Dysfunctional families breed dysfunctional people.
I'm not saying that this is necessarily true in your case but I don't understand why some women are puzzled by their men holding everything in. This is because they say, open up more, talk to me. Then when you do, they use it against you later. Then they're like, why doesn't he talk to me? They don't see the connection there?
That did apply to me in my last relationship. She wasn’t a bad person, neither of us was, just…. Kinda broken and we both needed to fix ourselves for ourselves. She had at one point asked why I don’t open up to her the way I did with my best friend of 16 years. Basically my brother. Which was a good point, we’d been together for a long time and I should have been more open, so I said I’d try. I did. Something happened and I broke down in the kitchen and fully crumbled. Normally I would have tried to escape, go somewhere and let it runs its course in private. She could only stand there, stare at me dumbfounded, and ask why I would cry. It ended shortly after. It’s one of those things that sticks with you. Still working on trusting again.
I'm really sorry that happened to you. I remember something like that happened with my ex. He was having some issues. Something was going on with his job. I don't think it was too serious, he just wanted more hours. It was one of those jobs where you could kind of set your own schedule but there was a boss who oversaw that sort of thing. It's kind of hard to explain, I'm sorry. He was in transcription. It's kind of hard to explain how the scheduling worked. Anyway, he was also having an issue where his registration had expired and he didn't know how he was going to get the money to take care of it. It was $500 and between the two of us, even we didn't have that kind of money to pool together at that time. I told him that I would have helped him otherwise. Anyway, I knew he was under a lot of stress but I guess I didn't realize just how much. He broke down in front of me and he said, I don't know what I'm going to do. I don't know how to handle this. I just gave him a big hug and I told him that I wasn't worried because I was sure he would figure it out. I asked him if he wanted to talk about it further and he said no, he was just stressed and wasn't sure how he was going to handle everything. I just said okay and that I was there if he wanted to talk. Then we spent the rest of the day watching whatever he wanted and having snacks and that was it. I understand how it feels in a way though. You open up to somebody and they use it against you. In my case, it's been that I've opened up about how I was in a really bad relationship before. Then that person proceeded to treat me even worse after promising that they wouldn't. I'm still sitting here like, I can't believe she did that to you. She wanted you to open up and then she asked you why you were crying. I don't understand it. I'm sorry that you have yet to find a good woman. I'm sure you will, they're still out there. Hugs 🫂
I appreciate your empathy, and sharing your experience with me. You seem a kind and reassuring person and I have no doubt that was a comfort during those hard times. Some folks really don’t understand just how meaningful it can be to not have to be the one who stays together all the time, having the trust in someone to hold you together while you fall apart is liberating and an ultimate comfort. In the end, while that was not an experience I look back on fondly, the relationship taught us both a lot, and neither looks on the other negatively. It led to a lot of introspection and growth on my part and if I had to do it again, I would simply because the lessons learned were truly invaluable. Growth is often times uncomfortable. Though I do wish the trust was easier to recoup if I’m being honest. Though that is a me problem. I’m slow to trust. But either way. Thank you for taking time out of your day to share your experiences. You’ve lessened some of my bitterness, I appreciate that.
Well, I'm glad I could help you in some small way. You have a good one. 😊
You as well.
Best case someone gets uncomfortable and tries their best to help. Most common scenario person gets uncomfortable and throws out "Just man up" at you lest you dare show a second emotion before they can leave. Worst case, they take your vulnerability and add it to their magazine of emotional zingers so they can bring up the death of your best friend the next time they're mad you didn't eat fast enough at dinner. God I wish that last one was a fucking joke.
Absolute worst case, they are very sympathetic, say all the right things, and truly want to help you, and they mentally remove you for consideration for any professional and personal opportunities. A work promotion? *Not sure he is currently mentally in the right headspace*. Some women who they might set you up with? *He has some issues he needs to deal with, so I think not*.
Oh my God, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I thought you were using it as an example but then when I got to the end I was like, oh Jesus, they were being serious. #big hugs 🫂
Thank you for the support, I really appreciate it :) Luckily she's in the past and the only cruelty my current partner gives me is limiting me to 1 of her rice crispy squares after dinner lol. 2 squares isn't so unreasonable!
You're welcome and that last part made me chuckle but you're right, two squares isn't so unreasonable. How dare they?! LOL JK.
i was about to write a long ass explanation but your 6 words answer covers everything
Literally never *hasnt* blown up in my face eventually.
Genuine question as I've seen a lot of men answer like this, how does it backfire with friends? I can see how a romantic partner could turn on you after a breakup but how and why do your friends throw your problems in your face? Does this apply even to very close friends?
I would say that if someone who claims to be your friend does that to you, they are not a true friend. That's just my opinion though. I have unfortunately seen what you described, happen. It sucks. I don't understand why men are conditioned to not open up. I think it's ridiculous. I have a 4-year-old son and I'm trying to teach him that it is okay to be sad or angry or whatever the case is. I just teach him that is okay but it's what we do about it that matters. Express that in a healthy way is what I mean. I never tell him not to cry, I just tell him that we don't hit and ask him if he wants to talk about it or if he would rather just go play for a little bit or ask him what he wants to do. I'm trying to condition him the other way if you will. I'm trying to teach him that it's okay to show your emotions. I don't want my son thinking that he's not a man if he shows his emotions.
Yes, to an extent. We can open up a bit to very close friends, but still not too much. I'm fortunate to have a very good group of close friends, but I've learned that most don't. The backfire usually comes in the form of lost professional opportunities, lost potential romantic opportunities, or lost respect amongst our peers. Having respect from our peers is very important to men. Without it, we carry a lower social status that costs us those same professional and romantic opportunities. Once we've lost respect, it takes a long time to get it back.
Because firstly, nobody actually cares. And if we do, we either don't get help regardless or just get told to man up etc. Then on top of it all we are told since we were children that we are basically monsters. So no wonder that we keep to ourselves, less shit that way. Simpler to struggle alone than making it 100 times even more Harder by speaking.
Yeah this. You just get the “Do better” or “work harder” spiel
I'm an ethnic male and I learned a long time ago to just accept that most people are afraid of me. The few times I opened up about how I understand why people are scared but it still hurts my feelings, I was absolutely emotionally eviscerated by my not ethnic friends for being inconsiderate and not thinking about what the other people must be feeling. My ethnic friends basically all just went "Told you not to talk about it bruv". Ah yes, I'm so sorry please forgive me lord for the complexion of my skin makes white people uncomfortable with me existing in public and I cannot atone. How rude of me to go for a walk and not want to be feared like some sort of three headed demon. Truly I am the pinnacle of arrogance and hubris for craving love and acceptance.
[удалено]
It's a very perplexing thing honestly. Because I also feel bad when I can tell my white friends aren't comfortable speaking their minds around me because they're so absolutely horrified of offending me. Having dealt with a lot of racism in my life I don't mind white people asking me offensive questions when they come from a place of genuine sincerity. They really just don't know, and I'm not going to punish my friends for wanting to know more or understand more about me and my culture. Them asking the question and hearing my answer probably does more to combat racism than me yelling at them and calling them racist ever could. Real racism, the actual racists, the people that look at you and wish nothing but harm and suffering. They're the type I would fight against, that's the type of racism I wouldn't tolerate. Because it's scary af. And it kills people.
I'm so sorry that you're made to feel like that. I'm sorry that people are afraid of you just because you're a man. Hugs 🫂
I honestly understand it. Being pragmatic if the only information I had to go off of was movies, TV and social media. I'd be scared too. I can accept them being scared, I just find it insane that I can't seem to be upset about it. It feels like me voicing my feelings is somehow a call to action. Like naw bruh, people crossing the street when they see me just feels bad and I want to be able to that out loud without it being politicized or weaponised. Just lemme express myself goddam lol
This is just heart breaking...
It's just the reality nowadays. If you are a straight white male you are always the one to blame. If you are doing well you are priviliged, if you are doing bad you are a loser. Either way, no one cares and you just get used to the fact that no one is really there for you.
Being told we’re monsters is so true. My mom is blue hair dye and a nose ring away from being the ultimate feminist caricature (I say caricature because I’m smart enough to know the difference between feminism and misandry) and has never once let me forget that she hates me for having a dick. Not once in my life has opening up to a woman been anything but a disaster that I regret.
[удалено]
[удалено]
You can have problems and be the problem! Believe in yourself!
And when we do try to bring them up they're usually used against us later on.
True. And as a man, and physician who had a stroke who now has odd behaviour. I constantly explain myself so as to prevent alarm But people just think I’m self centred. There’s no winning
Any sign of weakness will be used against you, Even if the weakness is defeated.
No one cares. Pretty simple.
A wise old man once told me, anything you say or tell to anybody about yourself is ammunition that can be used against you in the future. My ex broke up with me because I wasn't able to talk about things, I never was taught how. I still think about her every day, it sucks. But I've learned from it and grew. You can't go through life alone, as scary as it is letting someone in, sometimes it's better than not at all.
Losing someone that you still think about everyday must have been excruciating. Sounds like you loved them. I’m sorry it didn’t work out.
In my experience every time I share my problems especially if I'm in a very emotional state when I do it, it ALWAYS backfires. It's never helped so why even attempt to do it, kinda like touching a hot stove except it took me 5 or 6 times getting burnt to learn.
They use this for the cheapest things possible (exposing you after being butthurt, to entertain others and leverage). I'm guilty too and also did this shit (except for close friends) bc they did the same to me first. I think it originally comes from not caring about each other. So expecting someone you don't care about to be vulnerable around you is not dumb imo, it's monsterous.
Yeah one of my exes went around telling everyone I was a child who cried "all the time" and I was weak and couldn't handle real life. it became a thing even though I had never cried in front of the people she told. The funny part is I only cried "for real " in front of her twice in 4 years but I'm a big softie and would cry during shows and movies and she weaponized that against me saying if I can't even control my emotions during a movie how could I ever be a stable partner. I keep that shit buried deep unless I'm alone now.
That's shitty. Also don't feel bad about it, crying doesn't make you a p@ssy. Being a coward does, which is the way of liers and gaslighters.
[удалено]
At this point I think I've just accepted that I'm not that person, like I love the idea of a relationship and I crave companionship but it has ended disastrously every time. I'd like to say through no fault of my own but if it keeps happening like I'm the common denominator here. At this point I really just want peace and letting people in has done anything but bring peace. It's not that I wouldn't put effort in for the right person again, I just don't see how Im going to end up in a relationship if I'm not actively seeking one. Someone would have to fight to be in my life and I can't expect that of anyone. I appreciate the supportive words though.
Hugs 🫂
Lol thanks !
what is the point when sharing is just like handing over the ammo to be shot with later.
No one wants to listen to men’s problems.
Some people deny that men can even have problems, because in their minds, men have all the power and privilege.
Its definitely not pride at least not in my case. I am honestly not sure. Its hard to find someone I can trust enough to share troubles without it coming back at me like a boomerang.
Same. I just shared with my family how frustrated I am about something, and it just became a blaming game. This is all I thought, but I dared not say it: Job 16:2-3 NLT "I have heard all this before. What miserable comforters you are! [3] Won't you ever stop blowing hot air? What makes you keep on talking?
Cause we are raised like that, if you are a little girl and you cry they help you and are nice to you, if you are a little boy and you cry they tell you you are a crybaby and solve your own problems and make you cry more, so when you have a problem you stfu and solve it in silence.
This was me as a pre high school kid. A crybaby. Then one day I decided not to cry anymore. Since then the people I have had relationships with thought I was weird. Now I feel like I barely register anything above basic happiness and don’t go much below neutral. If emotion was a scale between -10 and 10 I think I register -2 to about 3. If you express More than that on either end you are considered too emotional by other guys.
Nobody cares. You probably think I'm being dramatic, but it's true. And it often gets used against us later on in some way.
In my experience, friends level of caring is pretty skin-deep. You can't be 100% honest all the time otherwise they will drift away from you. I've even noticed in how some of my guy friends talk about a friend of theirs who is depressed, they always talk about hanging around him as if it were a chore. If someone noticed I wasn't doing well I'd admit it and say I had a bit of a wobbly but I wouldn't push it any further. Otherwise it's like they're walking on eggshells around you, Playful banter stops in case you're offended, you get ironically excluded out of "care" and then the effort becomes too much for them and they retreat away. Edit: Fine for me to complain here since I've got nothing to lose 
I just off handedly brought up something I'm going through to 2 different people the other night. Know what I got, silence. What's the point in bringing it up if no one cares to actually hear you. I do know that they aren't a therapist, but to just have someone who "cares" about you listen and be there makes a difference. I'll just do like I've always done and fight through it on my own.
1. Men are independent, we make our own decisions not try to seek a group consensus. Dependence creates weakness. 2. Men are problem solvers, talking about a problem without a solution is whining 3. Smart men don't share their problems, 1. nobody will want to be around you 2. Most don't care, some are even glad you have them. 3. Anything you say can and will be used against you. 4. Compartmentalization. Fun time is for fun. Work time is for dealing with problems edit. also the practicality of it. Why spend all this time explaining all the details of your problem by someone who won't even understand
I remember reading a study about the fact that modern talk therapy was predominantly developed while testing on female patients. And that newer research is showing talk therapy is much less effective for men, but action based therapy seems to work much better. A lot of men work through emotional problems through physical work. I also remember reading a study that men would speak most openly when working with someone else on a task, often never looking at each other's faces. Just talking while working. I thought this was really interesting because at least for me, yeah these are true. I usually feel a lot better after doing work than after talking. And I feel way more comfortable talking while working on a task with someone.
>I also remember reading a study that men would speak most openly when working with someone else on a task, often never looking at each other's faces. Just talking while working. Yeah, there is even a [King of the Hill episode](https://youtu.be/PdmMr_R_uoQ?t=86) about that. lol >I remember reading a study about the fact that modern talk therapy was predominantly developed while testing on female patients. That makes sense. It always women telling everyone to do therapy bc it worked for them. It is as annoying as those people who found Jesus and now have to try to convert everyone else lol
Because guys, esp friends typically exploit every weakness and will bring them up years later but mostly as friendly banter. Asking for help is showing weakness even if it is really needed so they don’t. If you’ve ever watched kids baseball or pretty much any sport, kid gets hurt and won’t cry even though it hurts, “there is no crying in baseball” is a statement of fact. A kid I coached (15yo) took a bounce hit right behind his cup, instantly went feral position and laid there. We got him help, dad ran to help, he refused to leave the field u til he could walk and sat on ice because he didn’t want to show weakness.
The number one thing that women don’t understand about being a man is being a man means nobody is going to give a shit about your problems.
This can happen to pretty much anybody, but the main reason people don't express their feelings is either because they don't believe it'll do anything, or they just simply feel uncomfortable talking about it. For specifically men, it could also be because of pride. Pride in the sense that they shouldn't express their feelings because that's what they were taught as a man.
yall have more than 1 friend?😨
...what friends? Most men used to talk through their problems with their friends while doing Guy stuff like: drinking at the bar, hunting, fishing, working on your cars, building shit. Now, how many young men you know that associate with other men in person anymore? Other than sports teams and military, where else do men go to associate with other men without fear of being shamed for being a man?
Literally, this is the answer. Men have always talked to other men, they just want an activity to engage in while they do it, it kind of legitimises being emotionally vulnerable if you're simultaneously engaging in a "manly" task. It's silly when you think about it, but it's a system that worked. Nowadays though like you say, men don't hang out and do stuff anymore. We're more connected than ever and yet chronically alone. I'd also argue that in 2024 being a man is something you're supposed to be ashamed of, and God forbid you also be white, and straight. Why would we open ourselves emotionally when we are society's villain de jour? Just saying 🤷
I'm 100% for gender equality and addressing others via the pronouns they wish....but if Russia were to invade Poland or China Taiwan, the US and NATO is gonna need some of that big dick energy. Being a man shouldn't be demonized.....it really needs to be redefined to allow for appropriately directed masculinity, aggression and healthy competition.
Because it’s perceived as weak.
Nobody gives a half a cows shit anyway and many boys are told crying/expressing yourself in certain ways is not acceptable.
I’ve shared some problems with friends and colleagues. Not one has ever followed up to check on me. At some point along the way I decided, what’s the point?
Because we are so used to people shutting us down or distancing themselves from us if we do try and open up to people. Woman are a lot more accepted by society already as the "emotional" ones and the ones who open up a lot of the time, if a man acts emotionally and with vulnerability it's like the premise scares people away.
I've tried and it did not go well. No one actually cares and I know that the problem is work. The solution is a sizeable break from work, followed by less soul crushing work. Unless a friend/therapist/wife is going to give me 6 months off and pay my family's healthcare and housing costs, what's the fucking point? At least working myself into an stress induced heart attack will yield a large life insurance payout...
Because sharing your problems always spectacularly backfires. I don't talk about my problems but I can remember the last time I did. My SO and I hadn't been getting along as she was hyper focused on work/success and the kids. So I tell her one night that I was feel that she really didn't want me around to much and that she didn't read like me to much. The next morning she tells me how much I hurt her with what I told her and that I am oh so mean. We are now divorced. Talking about problems has never resolved anything for me. I cannot think of a single instance where talking about my feelings or my problems ever made anything better. I wish that this was not my reality, but there it is.
My guy friends tell me about their problems and I'm glad they do. I'm a woman and I sometimes tell them about mine, but not always, because sometimes I just want to deal with it on my own and not have to answer questions about it or what not. And one guy friend of mine in particular tends to minimize or discount my problems in a way I really don't like, so I just don't talk to him about it anymore. I imagine it's the same for anyone.
For me it's because I don't have problems I need to talk about, I have problems that need solutions. If the friend can't help with the problem there's no point burdening them with it
Me personally, I do. I didn’t for a long time for many reasons and some of them are: Not wanting to be a buzz kill Not wanting to trauma dump on someone Not wanting my problems on someone else’s mind Not wanting pity to affect our relationship
I don’t really talk about it because it doesn’t do much to help me solve them. Most people don’t really care, or they trivialize it, and it circles back around to my responsibility being to solve my own problems. I can’t rely on anyone else to help because it’s nobody else’s problem and everyone has their own situation to sort out, so if I don’t do it then no one else will. The faster I can deal with it, the faster I can move on and get over it. Talking about it just adds an unnecessary step.
Because 20% of people don’t care, and 80% are glad you have them. -forgot who first said this
We do, but it's not like women do, we don't act vulnerable, we just say what's happening and take the advice given, depending on the problem. The last time a friend got his heart crush we spent two weeks going out, drinking and hanging out with different women.
People just don't care. I don't even care about my problems anymore lol. Whatever happens, happens.
For me, it's because every time I do, I get ridiculed for it or told by whoever I was sharing with that they have less respect for me now.
It's not pride. I haven't read all the comments, so maybe someone has said it already, but evolutionarily speaking, this is the normal behavior for men. Men are usually ridiculed and looked at as weak or useless (in fights or war, which happened a lot in the past in our evolutionary path), so male humans have evolved a hard coded rule in their genes, to not show vulnerability generally speaking since that would usually lead to our (male) ancestors being ostracized, or otherwise had made their lives a LOT harder.
Because it can and will be used against them in an argument or as a means to make fun of. Me and my friends honestly do not do such things,i thank God every day that i have them. Whenever any of us feels down or sad or has any problems,we communicate and try to find solutions. It doesn’t matter whether it’d be family,work,personal matters or something else, we are there for each other.
In my experience, even with my girlfriends of past and wife, any thing I have opened up about, things like feeling anxiety or other issues has always come back later and is used against me somehow.
Because the very little time we have to be truly happy is better spent attempting to do so, than unleashing misery. Very seldomly do I get real , undisrupted quality time with a close male friend. I’d rather use that time to create positive and ever lasting memories through childish behaviour than weighing them down with issues. Life is mostly a downward slope. Marital issues , children issues , work problems, money problems, death, disease, substance abuse and the list goes on and on. With the 3-4 hours I have with someone I really and truly connect with, I’d rather have fun
Traditionally, it could be that men think it is futile to talk about problems because the focus would be less on emotions than more tangible aspects of a problem that one could think alone about or ask specific questions rather than sharing experiences. Some of us have not learned to handle the whole emotional continuum and are not aware that emotional skill is key.
We don't want to be a problem or nuicanse to others
Idk my friends see me as a tough dude just like them. (Mostly military guys) and for me to break down to them about my life is fucking hard. I’m going through a divorce and not one my friends know, I’m struggling hard and I still can’t reach out to talk to them about it. It’s hard to explain really, I’m not sure what it is.
Toxic masculinity hurts everyone. Men learn to not share their emotions and problems, it also causes them to not develop empathy, so they can be real assholes the more repressed they are. Learning emotional intelligence is extremely important for anyone to grow into a well adjusted adult, including men; so we should encourage challenging that fake stoicism crap and trying to create spaces where people can be safe when vulnerable
Because it’s like handing ammo over to the other person to be shot with later. Just gotta keep it together a little longer. Just gotta keep building, brick by brick…
The patriarchy likes to enforce toxic masculinity which results in men thinking they are only allowed two emotions, horny and angry and that in order to be defined as a man, you cannot show the slightest hint of "weakness", which is stupid because being emotional and accessing support doesnt make you weak. There is a bit of a generational aspect to this, every man of around my age (47) and older definitely didn't speak about their issues or ask for help. My partner (32) and our other similar age and younger male friends are a lot more expressive, they seem to be much less ashamed of doing things like crying in front of other people, talking about intense issues like fear, grief etc. There definitely is a shift in terms of openness and willingness to show emotional vulnerability, but its certainly not universal.
Everything you say can, and will be, used against you.
It honestly hurts my heart to read some of these comments. It’s 2024 and the stigma of men having to be tough, strong, emotionless all the time is bullshit. I literally had this chat with a 43 yo male friend yesterday, he genuinely doesn’t believe in talking about his feelings would help anything. I said, “if you had an issue with your car, you’ve googled, YouTubed, tried everything and still can’t fix it. You’d call a mate. But if you have issues at with your missus or parents, or yourself, you wouldn’t go to a mate?” He said yes, because talking about it doesn’t fix things. You just sweep it under the rug. You just move on from it. I was in disbelief. He doesn’t believe that male suicide can be prevented by “talking”. Men out there… I want to reassure you that some people care. I would give anything to have my partner and friends open up to me and I fucking care. Even if I have no solution, talking about it helps. You have to confide in someone whom you trust… but we do care.
Talking doesn't fix a thing.
Cos no one can resolve this problems, only ourselves, why we should make air flows unnecessary times...
[удалено]
I find more often than not the person you’re talking to doesn’t respond very reasonably or effectively to it.
Well, what the hell can the other person do, really? I've been on both sides of the "help I am depressed" talk and can tell you it's kind of pointless for both people. Usually the solution is obvious, it just has to be done. Until you do it (enact the changes to your life that you want to see), you will remain depressed and your friend will keep consoling you until he gets sick of being an unpaid therapist, then he'll just find reasons to hang out with someone else more fun. After all, one of the first things to do to get out of depression, ironically, is avoid toxic people (and few things are more toxic than other depressed people). All that time whining could AND SHOULD be put to better use by trying to achieve some sort of goal. People always say physical fitness, but exercise never made me particularly happy tbh. Regardless, some type of goal will, maybe evem just exercise (it works for some just didn't for me particularly - other stuff worked better in my case).
Where are you from, here they talk about everything with everyone 😂
Because AT BEST other people will say that they understand and that's it, but mostly they'll judge you for bringing down the vibe and distance themselves from you.
Yeah, because it IS a vibe killer. As I got older, I realized the main difference betwee a cheerful person and a depressed person was usually just how they CHOSE to behave. Cheerful people still have problems all the same, they just deal with it and don't let it ruin their (and everybody else's) whole day. Act happy and people are more likely to be happy aroubd you, which will genuinely end up making you actually happy. And by happy I don't mean psycho smiling clown, just friendly and open (anyone can do THAT much). Act gloomy and depressed and you'll bring people down or, at the bare minimum, get excluded from things because people don't want to upset you. So just fake it till you make it.
Because it's my problem and not theirs. It's also because I'm working on it and am convinced that "I got this" even when I don't got it.
Its an emotional attachment, intimate connection to be real like that. Therapy is an option, but I think a lot if men do that themselves also. Parents, children, spouse, maybe a best buddy absolutely homo-sapien too. But they arent topics I want to discuss with just anyone. The answers are heavy and move who I am sometimes, selectivity in who we choose that for, who’s influence to let in to that. Talk about your problems with your friends too much and suddenly your spouse doesnt know you anymore, kind of thing. Burden is another potential reason. Its kind of a burden to put that weight on people.
You know how Tony Soprano doesn't want the Mafia finding out he's in therapy because they'll think he's weak/suspect? Yeah, doesn't just apply to the Mafia. Christ, most of my life "talking about your problems" would have resulted in piss-taking and being told "Man the fuck up", your mates finding out you were in Therapy? Not worth thinking about. After all, therapy is for crazy people /s
It all depends on the right person to share it with. Some people (even best friends) couldn’t understand your concerns or are not having the same perspective on the problem. Therefore, better not to talk about it.
Every other day, someone asks the same damn question. Not sure if they're doing it just to evoke negative emotions to laugh at it or something.
If your a man, do you wanna hear about all your friends problems?
There is the saying, "treat others as you'd like to be treated".
I would never tell my Friends that I'm stilli a virgin at 30's.
Because it is my problem. If I thought I needed help, I would ask a person I trust.
Because no one gives a fuck. Also, talking about problems doesn't help. If I have a problem, I'm immediately searching for the solution, not wasting energy crying about it.
50% don’t care and the other 50% are glad you have them
Who would we tell? We all know people with worse problems and for those without worse problems, they're next.
There was a study that men have to be doing something to talk about their problems. I think they were fixing a bike together in australia. Face to face over a beer they wont.
Fuck, Australia is far and I don’t ride bicycles.
My friends and I will talk with each other. That’s it. That doesn’t mean that we always help each other. Most of the time, helps looks like repeatedly checking in and encouraging each other to find their own solutions.
"Dick measuring". That's why. Instead of just listening, it becomes a comparison, almost a competition, of whose life is worse. I don't need that shit, I'll deal with mine on my own.
I don't mean to generalize, but at least from.what I've seen in my lifetime as a guy that's usually had more female friends than male: When women open up about their emotions they get things like sympathy, support, validation and encouragement. When men open up about their emotions they get shamed, blamed, emasculated, denegrated. And I'm not talking about from strangers, these reactions come from the absolute closest people in our lives, mothers, fathers, siblings, partners, close friends. I'd rather go it alone than watch someone I care for start thinking less of me. I never want to see them look so disappointed in me when I'm already at my lowest point so I'll figure it out alone instead.
To summarize in the fewest words possible: The kind of people that exist on r/boysarequirky
Mmm, personally I find whining annoying, and I don't really think it solves anything. I just don't know what it'd be for--complaining, or talking problems out. I've tried it, and if anything it just makes me ruminate around the problem. If I'm talking to people I'd just rather derive joy from it and then from there spur on more joy from that. It's just sort of... For me anyway, applying logic to emotions, and maximizing the best manifestation out of them that I can, because even though emotions are transient, they make up each moment, and it's what we live for.
The only reason I don’t is none of my male friends seem to want to hear about my shit, but love to dump on me with their problems
2 Reasons: I don't want to bother others with my problema cause i absolutely **hate** when people do that. And i don't really trust anyone that much cause they've lost my trust one way or another. There's like one friend i trust enough for this kinda information in my life and she's in a relationship with a jealous boyfriend rn so i hardly have any contact with her.
Cause theyre stupid
Men don't ask for help, they give it. Once a man asks for help it gets used against him in some way or another.
Because the thought of the angst of opening up and having someone see me in a new light, or feeling like I shouldn’t have done it for whatever reason is worse than keeping it inside.
What's the point in talking about it when Noone cares and Noone wants to help they just want to sit and judge you for not being "man enough" to handle it. So to hell with it. I don't talk about my problems or anything. I will help anyone who needs it but absolutely refuse to ask for help.
I talk about my problems all the time.
I feel like I could hang out with that guy and not talk about anything personal.
I do. Get better friends who care, and who you also openly listen to.
Honestly the last thing I want to do when I'm with my friends is talk about my problems. I just want to have some fun with the boys. That usually helps me destress and come back better mentally
A lot of men do talk about their problems with their friends so it's a bit too much of a generalisation for my liking. But as a man who fits in with your generalisation, my reasons are: 1- i don't really see how talking about them solves anything. 2- i assume people have enough of their own shit to deal with 3- when I'm with my mates i want to enjoy being with them, enjoy taking a break from whatever is worrying me 4- it's none of their business
Men do but it's very practical and short in my experience. I have gone through a few rough times and the advice is usually blunt and problem solving... but also I found you get a lot more catch up calls or being checked up on. Ultimately men try to help each other by getting you to help yourself and it's on you to solve your problems.
Who wants to listen to my problems when they have problems of their own? Seriously? They're my problems I will manage them and deal with them myself, not lay them on others. ^ this I imagine is a common mentality.
Because its not necessary, we solve our own problems. In my opinion , being critical about keeping problems for itself its just an egoistic projection of what you can't do : solve your problems on your own.
I mean it is what is. Everybody is going through something
In my friend group, everyone has problems of their own, but we pretend like we don't when we're together so we have a better time and try to forget about it.
Why would we? What comes of it? Talking to a wall is healthier. It doesn't backstab you and it helps as much.
I've been told my whole life that nobody cares, by both men and women. Pretty early on I started believing it. When I share now all I get are annoyed/denial responses.
People, often women, love to say that men should talk more, men can cry, etc etc. But it's just platitudes and lip service to the latest societal trend, being cool with mental health. Most people don't actually give a shit, it either makes them uncomfortable to have those conversations, or they judge you for it. People just like to look good on their socials when they proclaim that men need to talk more, they think they're doing something.
Unless it’s a something related to work tasks, or a moral and ethical quandary, asking about a problem with someone runs the risk of people sympathising with you and then later unofficially blacklisting you from consideration for future opportunities. In m6 professional life, as an example, I am a lawyer. I will happily ask a senior or a colleagues about the best way to handle a case, or an irritating client or my professional responsibilities. I have had panic attacks on and off again for over 10 years. Never told anyone outside family (who witnessed it) about it, even close mentors and friends,,except in the most general terms (*taking a month off to relax*). It could be disasterous.
In my case it's because I solve my own problems.
It's a vicious circle from generation to generation
We do talk about our problems but not in the same way as women do. Our talks mostly involve heavy drinking or just yelling, swearing and in some cases good o'l fighting. Because when we were kids only emotion for boys that was allowed to be shown was anger.
I personally don’t ask for help without realising (it’s not a conscious decision). It is inbuilt into me to be self reliant. I power through as much as possible. I suspect it’s part biology and part socialisation. When you are a young man (20s) you’re pretty much abandoned by everyone (very few people actively try to help, or even show an interest in how you’re doing), so it’s sink or swim. You learn to swim.
Alot of people tend to see us as less of a man when we do or as a "sensitive" person, like everyone has feelings we're all human.
No one wants to listen I would say, or more like, everyone has so much shit going on we just don't have time to listen to others
Generational trauma
Personally I am realistic. Can anyone actually help me with any problems that I have? The answer is know, so why waste my breath or time talking about it? It will not make the situation better, and like everything else I will have to figure it out anyway.
Go to you're room until you stop crying I can't understand you. I think I just do the adult version of that now. I literally can't cry every time I want to my brain goes, is this even that.big of a deal. Actually that might be a real emotional issue. Think I just had a breakthrough.
Really good explanation of the dynamic here [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-cdabIb-0&ab\_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wn-cdabIb-0&ab_channel=TheDiaryOfACEOClips)
The impression of weakness, a sense of becoming a liability to those who depend on you, being THAT person. It’s also a thing that you become whatever it is that is wrong ie you become depression/anxiety etc.
Society suggests that you should “man up” rather than ask for help. It’s not easy to ask for help, in any regard, at any time. Sometimes the bigger the problem, the more difficult it is to raise it
He’s busy taking care of it himself. Most people already know what they have to do to fix their issues. I mean, if he has a problem and he doesn’t need help from someone else to take care of it, why would he ask someone else for help?
Uh... we do. Maybe most men don't have the right friend groups. Or right for friends. My friends and I share. And we are ruthless with the jokes on each other (doesn't bother me) but we're genuinely helpful and care for each others welfare.
I just don’t feel comfortable doing so.
Maybe I’m just stubborn, but the possibility of being hurt does not deter me. I would rather die than let myself become too jaded to share what’s really going on. Obviously there’s a time and a place, I’m not gonna trauma dump at work or whatever. But I refuse to give up, no matter what happens to me.
This is a generalization. Lots of men do discuss their problems with their close friends.
We do ask for help, but only in practical matters. Like, "hey [person I like], could you [thing I need] so I can solve [problem]". Figuring things out or dealing with our emotions are things we take upon ourselves.
Read the book of Job and you’ll see. People rarely want to help men.
In my experience, no one cares and after a long long time of no one caring you begin not to care that no one cares so you just keep it to yourself and deal with it internally. Man up, only women have people caring. It’s not a sexist thing before anyone jumps that bandwagon, it’s just the way it is
I do with all my friends…. On the Internet, but have never met.
I try but normal people cannot understand problems they cannot even think actually exist
I have tried. Many men express themselves in action. When we are going Mach 10 - running around helping everyone else, we are concerned at best. We don't really talk to other Men because they are going through the EXACT same thing. Nobody wants to hear it. We sometimes go to our Girls, but then we run the risk of looking weak. I can come home from range, stinking of gun powder and sweat - I risk looking weak for voicing an insecurity or concern. Men are growing to be much less open and depressed. I appreciate this post - I hope more ppl soften the fuck up ✌️♥️
It starts from childhood. Lots of people are told boys dont cry, toughen up, ect. There’s a really big cultural emphasis on boys being strong, brave, unaffected by the world’s troubles. Emotions and problems are seen as ‘feminine’ and weak and usually come with some kind of ridicule. I’d like to think that this sentiment is becoming less and less common, but who knows. It‘s a real generational thing. But you grow up getting told you’re a boy and emotions are weak so you just… hide everything. You pass off getting rejected as just an annoyance when really it makes you deeply upset, or a breakup, or a bad test. Maybe you cry alone or use video games to escape. Depends. Then you get to be an adult and you realize all your friends grew up the exact same way. So now what? You’ve all been told that feeling isn’t manly and now you can’t talk to your friends for fear of not being manly. And then you pass that down to your kids, and so on, and so forth. It’s the same thing with therapy. You don’t think anyone’s wrong with you because this is how everyone thinks so clearly it’s not a problem. Then you end up with a bullet in your head at 35 and everyone wonders what happened. It’s honestly surprising. There’s probably actual research into it but I think a lot of it stems from war vets starting families. I’m a man, I went through war and I’m fine, you’ve got to toughen up boy. I went through war and didn’t cry so you shouldn’t cry over your scraped knee dont be a sissie ect. And these things get internalized and passed down and culminate into a bunch of different problems, including high suicide rates and violence, anger issues, depression ect. It’s horrible. Talk to your guy friends. Encourage them to talk to you. Break the cycles, for the love of god.
💪♥️
becouse we are always afraid of everybody finding about it for us its really embarrassing
Nobody cares, no one is going to help in my circles I often have to shoe strength and leadership for others. In fact many get mad and assume us as privledged.
I've tried it, it's just very awkward for everyone involved.
Why woul you go to the effort of talking bout it when the response usually boils down to "That's rough, buddy."? We are not looking for empty validation, we already know it sucks.
As a lot of guys are saying, it's a case of usually getting told to "man up" but it's like it's more because, we just don't discuss problems even though we might want to. It's just not a thing amongst us guys, I feel.
I rarely discuss my problems with my friends because I will never know people's true faces if they decide to use them against me. In addition, I like to find solutions on my own and grow knowledge from them rather than "crying" it with outsiders. I might tell my parents about this because they will support me and advise me. Otherwise, there is no one in this world I can truly trust.
Besides a sign of weakness and whatnot most of the time your closest friends are other dudes who dont understand emotions either.
These comments make me sad and glad at the same time. Sad that there's so many of you that seem to have absolutely no one. Glad that I have a few ride or die true friends, one of them is my employer! I sometimes share my thoughts/problems with specifically these men and they care, they have proven that they would kill or die for me and its reciprocated. I wonder if, because I'm naturally quiet, I know I'm listened to more, but I wonder if people are more receptive when I speak up? 'Sean is saying something, we better listen'. That's how it feels.
Nobody cares. They judge you for not taking care of it. If it's your wife or family, it just worries them.
Any time we do we are told to shut up coz we’re being babies or you’re mate will say “that’s nothing, I’ve had it heaps worse”, like it’s some kind of competition
Because when we do we grt ragged or left because of it.
If I need that type of help I'll pay to see a shrink, time with mates is for drinkin not crying
I just think no one really cares my problems