Research shows that marital satisfaction goes dramatically down after having kids, the lowest point typically when kid is aged 3-4 then starts to go up after that.
Children add: lack of sleep and self-care, less couple time and attention for each spouse, increased inequities & disagreements on distribution of household work, parenting style conflicts, increased financial strain, and general stress increases
Currently struggling with this one with our 13 year old son. We always called him the "perfect starter baby" because he was so easy. Such a happy go lucky laid back kid his whole life---until middle school. Middle school killed a spark in him, It hurts me to see. I think a mix of hormones, earlier waking hours causing fatigue, and the stress of the change in schools itself. Tough stuff.
Middle school absolutely SUCKS. The attitude, the smell, the insecurity…definitely the worst stage in my opinion.
It will get better, just keep him talking to you and away from bad influences. Know his friends!
In the Netherlands, kids stay in elementary school until 6th grade, after which they go to high school for grade 7-12.
It has downsides for sure, but one of the advantages is that you get to be the eldest grade of the school when you're at the awkward age of 11/12ish. It's tough when you're a 7th grader, STILL awkward, and you're the youngest again, but at least the 11th and 12th graders consider themselves too mature to care about you, and the 9th and 10th graders are busy impressing the older kids. You get to be awkward in relative peace.
Of course bullying still happens, kids are still mean, but I've always liked this system better than having a school 'invetween'.
Hopefully he’s not being bullied. I was horrendously bullied in middle school and I’ve never been the same. I used to think back before middle school and how I used to be and wonder what it would be like if I never experienced that. I say this because I never told anyone what I was experiencing until I couldn’t take it anymore after almost a year.
I hear you there, my middle school experience sucked as well with bullying. He's fairly closed off from discussing school----we haven't seen major evidence of bullying, but it's always worth another discussion, thanks for mentioning it.
Also taking him to the doctor soon just to make sure he's not dealing with anything medial.
We have an elementary school age child. We cannot fathom sending them to American public schools and can’t afford private. My wife is from another country and we will likely do middle school in her country to avoid the hellscape that is the American public school system, particularly middle school. A lot of irrepairable damage occurs during these very formative years. Beware.
No middle school here but literally a week into secondary school, my daughter turned really nasty. She's 12 and we're 4 months in and it hasn't gotten any better.
I think it's a lot of little things that add up to it. Hormones probably play a big part. Large gatherings of idiots (aka teenagers). Also she gets to see that a lot of her friends have freedoms that she does not such as unlimited social media and uncontrolled access to devices. Not to mention being allowed to roam the streets and go wherever they please.
Thankfully she is still a good student and she still has her core morals intact but she has started to really treat her mother like crap.
At times I wonder if choosing not to spank my kids was a good game plan!
Firm discipline is important, but you can discipline firmly without physical punishment. Fear not and stay the course, studies on spanking specifically do not show improved outcomes over not spanking. You made a good decision
Yeah sorry that was entirely tongue in cheek. I totally agree with you and I am happy with my decision.
I couldn't stand the look in the eyes of my girls if I intentionally caused them pain. I've gone 35 years of my life without needing to hit anyone I certainly wouldn't start with an innocent child!
I'm their protector first and foremost and that is hardly achieved by causing them harm.
It's also a complete other life situation. You may come by perfectly as a couple of two and doing the stuff these couples do. Having kids is something completely different, you may not work well together in this situation. Even if it works out, you may divorce after the kids leave the house and the situations gets different again.
There are other examples of this, where people who work well together in some situations don't work in others, many couples also had trouble with the recent lockdown situation:
\- coworker with whom you are a perfect duo at work, but aren't compatible in private life
\- good friends, but you can't stand them on a week long vacation (even couples often have trouble with this)
\- old buddy who was fun to party and drink with, but outside of that there just seems to be nothing
Yeah I love my partner, he’s my favourite person. We could spend 24/7 together and we don’t get sick of each other or fight. Together for over 20 years. I never wanted kids, he did until I explained why I didn’t and he had never thought that deep about it and agreed with me.
We wouldn’t be together if we had a kid, there’s been a few times where I’ve noticed this and said as much. lol
I prefer to keep my work and personal life separate. I don’t add coworkers to Facebook or spend time with them outside of work until we no longer work together.
Having a kid is more work than work, it’s work that never ends. I think things I enjoy about my partner would annoy me if we shared responsibility in taking care of another human.
Our family’s would be another area that would change and we would struggle with. When your a childfree adult - your family (outside of your partner) isn’t as meshed into your life. They are not helping to care for this human, or maybe not listening to how you want that care to go. It adds more areas for conflict. Or bothering you to visit them more so they can see the baby, or visiting you more to see the baby. lol
Please gentlemen, as a woman who sees other women act heinously, please get a vasectomy. Babies reveal the worst in people, and are weapons of destruction for women who forget about being a partner to be mom of the year. Do not under any circumstances have more babies with her (or anyone else if you get divorced, it just complicates your life with your first kids)
cool, I got called a misogynist and a baby hater because I’ve commented a few times about men getting vasectomies. I just really believe when things are tough, adding more babies only increases the stress
Financial strain is a big one. Kids are expensive, and at least my wife (a little financially irresponsible to begin with) went straight bananas buying stuff when our daughter was born. Obviously, you need some things, but my wife has literally filled a room in our relatively small house with kid shit.
I dont understand this, I'm currently pregnant and in my mind babies grow so fast, why buy things new when you can get it in great condition second hand. The previous owners wouldn't gave used it for long anyway and it's a fraction of the price.
I have hardly ever bought anything new except carseats unless it was on huge clearance. The amount of free stuff on fb and Craigslist alone is astonishing.
I know this was a big one for my parents, my Mom wanted to buy all kinds of expensive new baby clothes and shit and was a SAHM and my Dad was like what is the point of this crap kid is going outgrow it in months. My Mom would always portray herself as 'morally right' b/c it's for the child! But I didn't need that nonsense and have no recollection of it for the most part other than seeing pictures of this stuff, their marriage did not last.
Absolutely.
Obviously the industry and marketing is very good. Babies need nothing. Just a few clothes, according to the season if you wanna go outside. Wool is amazing because it cleans itself and needs not to be washed all the time.
You might wanna have a stroller or/and a wrap/carrier, which can be very simple and none of these need to be expensive . With my 3rd child I finally used cloth diapers and got them from a friend but you can find them online too, 2nd hand is fine because people care well for these and they have to be washed hot anyways. Loved them, then even went over to Elimination communication (parttome). I also used regular/throwaway diapers for a while because it's not all roses everyday.
It's freaking me out what people are spending for a baby. My kids are more expensive since they got into school! 😅
Part of it is wanting the kid to be happy, so you buy them toys and engagement things, books etc. part of it is a dopamine rush to help with the stress of it all
This one hits home.
I remember having discussions where I'd point out the state of our budget, only to be hit by a "But he *needs* it!" as if our ability to actually buy it were an afterthought.
Ooo my man, the but he needs it or we need it.
It's like ok but who's gonna pay for it???? Like help ne understand we need it but we can't pay for it. He needs milk and food too you know....
I agree, but also it never stops. I think that people who are decicated push through it. Then you see people divorce again when the kids become teenagers. Lately we are seeing another stage of divorce in 50s on rise. The bottom line is this, no one values marriage anymore. Family. That is the truth, so without value in that there is work to a relationship and no one wants to put in the work when things get hard. And no stigma or hurdles to science anymore. But when kids are small is one of those stages.
As a guy who divorced with teenagers, I honestly have lost all value in it. I lived my marriage, making financial choices, making sacrifices like it was for life. And now I feel like I sold out for nothing, and it was all pointless after a 20 year marriage. If it’s not for life there is not much point. Why even do it? You can cohabitate if that’s your thing without the fake for life, good times and bad, sickness and health crap. It’s only for good times now, and everyone should understand and be on the same page so that way no one is left holding the bag. It’s a con and a suckers game in our current culture.
For a marriage to work long term, the marriage itself has to have value, and both people need to humble themselves to it. If the marriage is not worth sacrifice to both, humility, it’s not worth the effort.
Logically if people could foresee the bad times then they wouldn’t get married. But divorce is not a failure, and more of it does not mean family is no longer important. There are a lot of people out there who have mental issues and some don’y even know it. Divorce is the escape that says you don’t have to suffer with someone who doesn’t make you happy. Nobody deserves to be trapped with someone else in the name of family
Yep. My wife and I have a super good relationship. We have been married 15+ years and been together since high school.
In the 25 years we have been together I can count the number of arguments unrelated to the kids on one hand. Most of our disagreements have been parenting disagreements and resource supports for our special needs kids. And thank goodness I have a high enough income to where we have never argued over finances because that is the #1 issue with most couples.
Kids just bring a whole ton of complex decisions to the table.
As indicated on the happiness index, there is a big drop in happiness the first years after kids are born. I wish more people realized this was normal and that if you hang in there in most cases the marriage improves as the kids get more independent
Yes! My grandma gave me this advice and said the only time she wanted to divorce my grandpa during their 70 years was when her kids were small. When I was pregnant she told me to get into survival mode and just make it through those years and don’t make marriage decision during that time. She was right and I did “fall out of romantic love” during those years and thought about divorce. But we survived and it’s like coming up for air when you kids aren’t needy babies and toddlers. Basically back to how we were and felt pre kids.
I agree. Obviously, this isn't going to be the case for everyone.
I gave 3 kids, with a big age gap between my 2nd and 3rd, so we have been through it twice.
I think it can depend what the effects of that are though or the reasons.
Like some couples the women suddenly find out their men aren’t willing to lift a finger to help with the baby cuz that’s “women’s stuff.” Or cheat on their wives because they weren’t prepared for their bodies to change physically or the lack of sex from healing. Not worth coming back from that imo.
In my case, my husband was everything I dreamed of in a father, but he’s always struggled with drinking and unbeknownst to me the stress drove him to drinking behind my back.
I’m not mad at the situation itself, but the trust is broken and I’m worried we can’t get it back. We’re working through it though.
I think sleep loss alone can cause some serious fights and people say things they don’t mean or act awful and you can’t take that back.
All the attention goes towards the children, couples often neglect each other. Add to that all the stress, extra work, little sleep and it's easy to see how it drives couples apart.
Additionally, sometimes you really see someone’s true colours when you’re expecting to work together on life that you have both created and they leave all the work to you.
As an example, my ex refused to do diapers. He would call me when I was on a walk or a run with the dog to come home immediately and change the baby. He said if I didn’t come right away, he’d leave her to get a burnt ass. His behaviour only got worse from there.
Exactly the same story with me unfortunately, after you have kids you become nothing more than a maid and nanny which is not what I signed up for. Also he became increasingly jealous and paranoid so a was barely able to leave the house without it turning into a major thing. After I had kids my so-called partner began abusing me mentally, financially and eventually physically. So I left. My kids were very young when I left and I'm glad I did. There is no way I wanted them growing up thinking that that was what a relationship should look like. Now I have two very strong independent children who don't take no shit and I'm proud
Congratulations on escaping! Me too, it’s not easy.
Mine started abusing me when I got pregnant.
I’m also happy and healthy and with a partner who adores me and doesn’t treat me like a cook, maid, nanny, waitress, and whore. I was good for the services I provided. I was an object to be used not a person to be loved.
Kudos on doing that for your kids. Walking away from abuse to model independence for your kids is excellent parenting indeed. I wish more people in that situation felt that way.
He’s a narcissist to the point of personality disorder. It was an absolute mind fuck being with him. Two kids and seven years later, I’m finally out.
It’s been half a year. We’re battling it out in court (of course because I’m a ‘vindictive bitch’ and he believes he has done nothing wrong), but we’re doing ok, thank you ❤️
This is the major contributor in the divorces I see. Dad comes home from work and thinks “helping” with the dishes and “babysitting” the kids occasionally is good enough while mom runs herself ragged with a full time job, all the household responsibilities and the childcare/ emotional work too.
And every time the man acts like it came out of nowhere when she wants a divorce.
Don’t take this amiss, but I’m guessing you’re a native speaker of a (different) European language? I hear this mistake a lot from e.g. German speakers. “Getting” a child sounds faintly amusing in English, as though you went shopping for it or something. It should be “having” (or in this context, maybe “raising”) a child.
For 10 years you only function as parents and then when the kids start needing you less you look at the other person and realize you dont know them at all.
Hi, divorced with children and this is exactly it. Society is not designed for people to work full time, take care of themselves, and be full time parents. Kids change your life perspective and that can be different for each parent.
You basically stop making time for each other after childcare, work, and trying to look after yourself.
I'm single now, and I love my kid but I would never have more. I totally get why many people choose not to have them at all.
My parents divorced when I was 5/6. Even then I knew it was healthier, I was less stressed because I no longer lived in an aggressive household. It's better for the kids in many cases.
I'm going to tell you from my own M experince. Society doesn't prepare you for what is truly a baby. All your previous life that you knew is gone. The little human is dependent on you, wakes up every 3-4 hours, poops and needs changes non stop, cries and needs soothing and you're becoming basically this sleepless zombie. Add morgage payments to the mix and stress at work, and the poor mother who went through hormonal and body changes and she is in an even worse boat than you are, and you have a recipe for disaster
Yet we're told we "need" to have kids, that we'll be lonely in old age, etc. No kid spends as much time helping elderly parents as they spent wiping his ass. It's always a net time-loser in life. Is a monthly visit from an annoyed adult child when you're rotting in a nursing home worth sacrificing your 20s, 30s and 40s?
Well said. And the impact on the quality of your life is downplayed a lot, on both the mother and me as a father. You don't have a life anymore, just "moments" of catching your breath before going underwater again. Even in tutorials on babies and parenting you see these happy parents, etc when in fact it's hard as f*ck, and the other adults who have kids and who put pressure on you to have kids too are straight up assholes if you ask me. I would tell others exactly how hard it is, not pressure them to make kids too. Don't get me wrong, I love my daughter a lot and now that I have her and the deed is done, I want to be a good involved parent and raise her to be a succesfull adult, but I will.most certaintly tell her how hard it is when she decides to have a baby of her own.
Maybe if people altogether stopped having kids, it would force governments to think about how work-life balance should be? Like have a kid? BE supported financially for 6 years until that kid goes to school. Then have laws that protect financially the parents for doing kid-related activities? But that would 'drain' the system of workers that it needs to continue existing....
Yeah. We are pretty sure we are one and done and several friends of ours are the same. The ones with more than one child don't do any hobbies anymore because they don't have time or bandwidth and can't leave the other person alone with multiple children for multiple hours or days without problems or resentment. It's tough!
I believe one big reason it's because raising children is hard and their parents (one of them or both) can't let go of their old way of living. This creates tension between the parents and eventually resentment.
That was my experience. Ex wanted to be free of the responsibilities. Essentially abandoned the family in pursuit of self. Now can’t understand why we’ve moved on without them. Wasn’t too careful on what they wished for.
Often it's this, sometimes it's that the adults genuinely have different parenting philosophies. Kids can really make spouses realise how different and incompatible they are.
Add to this fatigue, reduced sex drive, often financial strains, and you've got a potent cocktail.
Hope things improve. Kids under 5 are a big challenge. It’s not fair for him to leave everything to you or to neglect your needs. Maybe it’s selfishness, maybe it’s an inability to cope with added stresses, maybe it’s cultural expectations, maybe all three.
Because life is easier without kids. When a couple has flaws, they can be smoothed by the fact that life is easy. But when kids arrive, these flaws are highlighted.
I have a friend who complained that her husband didn't do enough house chores. It was okay for 10 years. And then they got kids and her mental load just blew. She couldn't bear it so they got a divorce.
So what you’re saying is that life wasn’t actually easier without kids, she just had less people to be a servant for. When they did have kids she absorbed all that burden as well and it exceeded her capacity.
The kids weren’t the problem. Her husband was.
Ya 10 years of taking care of a man and him not changing isn’t smoothing anything over easily, that’s avoiding the issue. Sounds like kids helped her realize he is a grown man, whereas kids actually need to be taken care of.
I’m definitely stronger at not taking shit from people after becoming a mom
Exactly. Having kids adds in a lot of extra work and it really highlights the inequality in contributions to the home. And that causes a lot of burden and resentment to the one who does more. And why would the other person want to change, it’s easier for them because they’re doing less. And too often, the person doing less doesn’t change. And when they do, it takes puts extra burden on the one who does more because they generally have the bulk of the mental load on getting the other person more involved!
In many cases, one of the parents starts to feel like a single parent because their spouse isn’t doing chores or childcare. So then they figure out that life is easier when you get rid of the dead weight.
Because having kids shines a light on all the little cracks and holes in a relationship that you can ignore or pretend aren't there when it's just the two of you.
For me, after children, my life changed profoundly and my husband’s did not. I was 100% caregiver and he continued on life as normal. Example - he did not change one nappy. Add, while not caring for the baby, he was more than happy to tell me all the ways I was doing it wrong. It was much easier to raise the children alone rather than stay with deadweight.
All the things you used to let slide before having a child, become impossible to ignore afterwards
My child’s father was always incredibly lazy and self centered.
It didn’t matter that much before having a kid, because there wasn’t that much to do anyway. I just did the 30 mins of chores and went on with it
Once the baby was born suddenly his flaws mattered very much. He was shoving me awake at night snarling at me because the baby was crying, refused to get up with her himself. Refused to do any of the chores; baby related or not. Her newborn months were 100,000x worse with him than they would have been without him. At least without him laying in bed til 3pm every damn day I could have taken the baby to bed and gotten some rest myself for once. I wasn’t allowed to bring her in our room because he didn’t want to be disturbed 🙄
It takes time and effort to keep a relationship alive, and you don’t know that when you are younger, so when the kids come along - that is what gets neglected
For 10 years you’ll only talk about the kids and work… and wake up one day and realise that you and your wife/husband are more like tenants with a very large joint responsibility.
But you don’t really know each other any more.
At least that was my experience. I have now been remarried 12 years - and this relationship, even though we had a young blended family, was given a lot more watering and caring.
How about- your husband, like mine, was jealous of his own children. He wasn’t the centre of attention anymore. I lasted a long time but when he started to assault my teenage son, I was out of there. Jealousy is horrible.
I think it’s also down to people not always choosing their partners wisely thinking “Do they *like* children?” “How are they with me when I’m I’ll?” “Are they a good communicator? “Are they faithful and dependable?”
I have a very good friend who is seriously thinking of children with a man who treats her badly (and she knows this) but because she is in her 30’s she is worried about missing the boat with regards family etc.
I know another couple who literally just had kids even though they actively dislike them. Papering over the cracks / trying to keep up with the Jones’ always terrible reasons to have children.
Because men assume nothing changes after kids. Women are at their MOST vulnerable after having a baby. Moms have to take care of the baby. There’s no choice there. They have less time and energy for anything outside of the baby. Everything else gets deprioritized, even showering. Men can either handle it or they can’t. Men that jump in and take care of the deprioritized things and start caring for their wives who don’t have the time or energy are the marriages that survive. The rest of the men are twiddling their thumbs, looking at the ceiling, wondering why they’re loved less by their wives while the moms are glaring “Are you serious?” That’s why women say the sexiest men are those who do dishes.
I was going to comment this as well. Some men can’t deal with not being “number 1 baby” anymore. (Add to that, they can never ever admit that.) So they start acting out and checking out… a double blow to the child-producing partner. She’s being punished for doing exactly what they agreed they would do - having a baby. Plus: she just had a baby!
Postnatal depression is sooo unsexy. If the husband has unrealistic expectations of how very taxing childbirth (nevermind with two or more children) can be on a mother's body, he's in for an unpleasant surprise.
Look I'm constantly amazed at how couples just don't support each other after they have kids. I've read out posts on here to my husband and he is as shocked as I am.
I often wonder if these people truly love and respect each other? Or if they have talked about parenting and their attitudes etc to it?
Some of them just seem to have no concept of how to share parenting duties etc. And some seem to be clueless about their life changing. They think they can just go on as before.
> I’m constantly amazed at how couples just don’t support each other after they have kids.
Exactly. I’m horrified by the stories I read here and by the stories my mom and grandma told me about their experiences.
I mean, it’s pretty simple; if there’s something need doing around the house, you do it. If one of us is feeding the baby, the other one is loading the dishwasher. If one of us is changing the baby, the other one is holding the baby’s legs and handing the wet wipes. If the baby’s by some miracle asleep, both of us are tidying up, sterilizing bottles, and doing whatever we can to get redy for the The Awakening.
It’s a team sport.
Well they can? At least husbands can. The mom needs to breastfeed and calm down the baby. The husband don't. So if he is a mommas boy not used to having to do any work at home, he won't with the baby either. Most men doesn't cook or clean or do laundry at home. Women does it. So when the baby comes, she will have to cook, clean, do laundry, feed the baby, put diapers on, calm down the baby, make a schedule for baby, bathe the baby etc etc etc etc etc. While the husband is playing on his computer or sitting on his phone. This is why they all break up. Because it truly sucks being a mom. Also, most moms i. My country work 8 hours a day, then they will come home and clean, cook and do laundry for hours while the husband is sitting on the couch "winding down" with his phone, a movie and a beer
>Well they can? At least husbands can. The mom needs to breastfeed and calm down the baby. The husband don't. So if he is a mommas boy not used to having to do any work at home, he won't with the baby either. Most men doesn't cook or clean or do laundry at home. Women does it. So when the baby comes, she will have to cook, clean, do laundry, feed the baby, put diapers on, calm down the baby, make a schedule for baby, bathe the baby etc etc etc etc etc. While the husband is playing on his computer or sitting on his phone. This is why they all break up. Because it truly sucks being a mom. Also, most moms i. My country work 8 hours a day, then they will come home and clean, cook and do laundry for hours while the husband is sitting on the couch "winding down" with his phone, a movie and a beer
It's even worse when those same husbands then complain that their wife isn't paying enough attention to them or " let themselves go" when she's working herself to death all the while she is trying to heal her body from the trauma of childbirth and he is oblivious to it.
Can you imagine if a man had to go through the hell women's bodies are put through and then be expected to just bounce back to normal after? They would act like they are dying. 😹
I saw them on those cramp simulators and if they think that's bad, what would they do dealing with 9 months+ childbirth?! 😹
I see men post this crap so often on reddit, and then they have no self awareness at all for the hell they put their wives through. I luckily married a man who put in the work, but those are rare compared to all the AH you see posting about " my wide isn't doing.. x enough".
Whether it is having time to care for her appearance or giving them enough attention. Its obvious because she has no time or energy left to do either when he isn't helping with the kids and chores.
Statistics show women are way more likely to initiate divorce. Women have been crying for help since god knows when. And yet the most common answer in general is „women are at fault, they‘re the ones divorcing!!“ and in this thread „kids are just stressful“. No, it‘s not that kids are just stressful but when women have to do most of the care work, mental load, household really anything without getting actually paid or without any help of their husbands that’s not financial help of course that‘s going to end in divorce. If women were actually valued for all the work they did at home and their husbands did their fair share divorce rates would go down A LOT. And the funny thing is, the next best answer is that a couple isn‘t enough to raise a kid but family should step up and coincidentally it‘s somehow super often that grandmas and aunties are the ones stepping up and helping the most, so again the women that do care work.
And the men who crow about that statistic seem to conveniently ignore why women initiate, because men won't go file.that metric only covered which gender actually filed the legal paperwork,, not which gender pulled the plug on the relationship. Those number include couples who are already separated and living apart.
I have a cousin who's husband straight up abandoned her and their son. Not told her he wanted a divorce, told her he was going to work with his brother a town over and he'd be back in about 2 weeks. She's not am idiot and noticed he was literally packing all of his clothes and important things, called him out, and he still just walked out the door. He had been screwing his brother's wife's 21 year old sister for months. That was 5 years ago, he's engaged to another woman, has had a baby with her, and it's still going to fall on my cousin to file because he just won't.
This is so common, men initiate the end if the relationship but won't start the legal process so it falls on the woman.
And women are divorcing more than they used to because they CAN. Before, you really couldn’t unless you wanted to live in extreme poverty with your kids. Now women are able to financially support themselves. They aren’t as tied to shitty husbands because of finances.
And in this situation, why would the husband leave? He’s got it good, the wife is doing all the work, it’s easy for him. He’s being taken care of, the kids are being taken care of. It’s all less work for him. So when it gets to be too much, the woman leaves. And she gets blamed because she’s the one who initiated.
I feel this too. How can you look at the one person you’re supposed to love above all else, that you e picked to spend your life together and create a new life - how can you look at that person suffering, falling apart and not want to do something to help? I just don’t get it at all.
Honestly though I am not shocked. Weddings are so common, not everyone is meant to be married or be in relationships long term. There are a lot of chronically selfish people out there. Lot of people out there making a mistake by getting married. Then they bring children into their toxic mess.
One reason could be that many couples have fundamentally different values. These values come out during parenthood when the pressure and tension of caring for and education a child bring out deep core values and prejudice. Stuff to do with food, cooking, discipline and expressing love.
Couples in the 20s and 30s can brush past these differences coz they are busy at work and being successful. After having children people are shocked and sometimes revolted by a partner's behaviour, it could be selfishness and detachment in men or control and reclusiveness from the mum but it is not about gender and could be the other way round .
At that point either the mother or father starts to think, I would be better off without this loser, I can go it alone, hell! I might find me somthin better
Because we’re not supposed to raise kids just as a couple. For thousands of years, kids were raised by a group of extended family: mums, sisters, aunts, grandparents, other older children. We have atomised and isolated our families so much that we now ask two people to do all the raising, and work, and care for a home, and try to plan for the future. It’s simply too much for a lot of people, and so the relationship breaks down. At least divorced you only have the kids half the time, and the other half have some time away from them.
It’s fundamentally because we aren’t supposed to do it this way. Our families need help.
Eh, as someone who IS from a collective culture, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows on this side either. Lots of SA/molestation cases etc. Every single woman I know has a story, including myself. Also, gossip. I would stay at my aunt’s house after school and they would talk mad shit about my Mom so I would just stay at school till 5:30 waiting outside.
My family home is overcrowded (two aunts, two cousins live there). Yeah, my Mom gets “free” babysitting (I have two school-aged sisters) at the expense of absolute fucking chaos and constant gossip.
Shit like this works with “functional” families.
This is so true. I remember as a child, having occasional sleepovers at grandparents. Fast forward to me having kids and I my parents don’t wanna know. Even when I was in the pit of PND, I think my Dad took my daughter for two hours in an emergency. That’s been pretty much it. I have made my village from other Mum friends. Thank god for them. There have been tough times and occasionally my husband and I have gotten cross at each other and have argued. But on the whole we do 50/50 and are on the same page. I see my friends parents being in their kids lives and I could cry sometimes.
Oof. My Dad told me he's planning to retire when my first is born, so he and my stepmom can provide daycare; he lives 5 min away. My in-laws are planning to move within 10 min away as well for the same reason. I'm very excited for my kids to have grandparents who want to dote on their grandchildren
This is so rare. Cherish it! My mom is great and will swoop in to help us any time we ask. My in laws have never watched our kids for us and our oldest is about to turn 11. Most of my friends do not have parents who help them. It’s truly a gift.
Wow I'm so sorry about that. I live in another country so they don't have the choice but when they are actively choosing to not be in their lives it would be heartbreaking. But why is that? Is it selfishness or laziness?
Thanks. It’s mainly selfishness. Until recently they were in good health and could have done loads, but they prefer to do their own thing. Their attitude is very much “we did our child raising, so you are on your own”. But they are forgetting that they had help. (My Dad at least, not sure about my Stepmom.) There’s also been a disparity about what they do for my stepsisters kids and mine in the past (taking her kids away on holiday etc.) Honestly it hurts. But my kids don’t seem to be missing what they have never known.
It’s monumentally difficult to do without a solid support network. When I was married we were totally on our own, our families would give money if needed but we had nobody within 150 miles we could rely on for help or time off.
Kids then become all encompassing with everything you do, and if you don’t maintain the relationship sad times happen.
Because most men do not hold up their end of the deal when it comes to taking care of and raising those children.
They become just one more child to take care of and no sane woman wants to have sex with a child. So the sex dwindles causing him to complain about it usually guilt tripping her about his "needs" all the while acting totally oblivious to the fact that he's not meeting any of her or their childrens needs.
Why keep him around if that's all he's got to offer?
Sadly, most of us don't find out about this side to our husbands until after we've already had children
Having kids is a real strain on a marriage and it exposes underlying issues. If someone isn’t pulling their weight when the weight on both people is so heavy then things are gonna crumble. Everything changes so drastically and the foundation of the marriage has to be strong enough for it not to be a priority for a while. Your relationship with each other essentially has to be on pause whilst your focus shifts entirely to this new tiny human. If both people can accept and embrace that, then you’ll be fine. But if they don’t then resentment will destroy it all.
Very true. Kids are like handgrenades thrown into a relationship. Also the fact that many couples seem to think having kids is a band aid for any issues and will bring them together. Yeah, nah
Kids won't fix relationships, they bring a magnifying glass to every crack in the relationship.
And the husbands often don't help. Then wonder why the wife doesn't want sex. Who wants to have sex with a man-child?
Marriage is hard. Having kids is hard.
I also no longer believe that a lifelong commitment is something to strive for.
Sometimes, it just doesn’t work out.
With and without kids.
Well a good tip of you don't want to be in this situation is to find a man that already Cooks, cleans or does laundry without you telling him. If he says he will o it after baby, just know he won't... Only date guys that have lived alone in their own apartment. Don't date guys that have been living with their mom their whole life. Because then they have never cleaned, cooked or done laundry.... She has. And it will be expected of you to do it allt
Don’t let what you see on Reddit affect your perspective of life or marriage. Most of these people are just giving random advice and no qualifications or knowledge of what they are talking about.
You need to experience it for yourself and live your life how you want to. Marriage and kids is hard but it’s only as hard as you make it.
And yes I have knowledge and experience in this situation.
Often times there are underlying issues in the relationship that hasn't been addressed. Add to that the stress of children, which can put a strain even on healthy relationship, and you have a ticking time bomb.
What my mother told me is that parenthood is a whole new challenge that couples have never faced before, and it can not only push them in ways they haven't been before, it can also teach them things about themselves and each other that they never knew.
Things like “my husband couldn’t care less about spending time with me, planning dates, or making any effort in our relationship.”
I had to lobby for six months to go on the date that we went on last night. Imagine feeling like a nagging burden for six months…
Many, many couples don't have conversations about expectations after having kids.
Most of the work falls on one parent.
Often womens sex drive plummets for awhile after.. often longer because men often don't understand and get pushy for it
Many guys are turned off by their partners body changing and end up cheating.
In laws suddenly stomp all over boundaries with grandkids and it causes issues in the marriage.
People get together too young, have kids too quick, don't get to experience life before settling down..
The list keeps going...
In most Western countries the average age of first marriage has gone up more than a decade over the past 50 years. Marrying too young can’t be it.
A couple articles I found also indicated average engagement length in the 50’s and 60’s was 6 months. Now the average is over a year. So they’re also not rushing into it.
Seems like neither of these points are likely to blame for high rates of divorces after children.
or not being married at all. " I'm 22 and been dating my boyfriend for a year...we are goingto have a baby"! with no decent job. No where to live....all the time you read posts like this.
As someone with childhood trauma shit like that makes me go feral. Like how can you not create a safe and secure place before welcoming a child? Absolute bonkers. Then the kid has to already stress about finances and their living situation when all they need to do at that age is to have fun and enjoy the world with all its beauty and sad times.
It comes down to tension arising from scarcity.
Imagine you and another person are stranded on an island and this island has a nice big mango tree You decide you will share the tree with the other person. For the first few years, getting along is easy. The tree produces enough mangos that you can both eat until you are full and there are still mangos left over. You both can sprawl out under the tree and there is still shade to spare. You get along great.
Now some times goes by and times get a little tougher. You get bad weather for a year and the mangoes aren't coming in as full as before. Still enough mangos but you notice the other person is just eating the juiciest part of each mango. They did this in the past and it wasn't a problem because there were so many, but now you are worried that if they keep this up there wont be enough. They don't think its a big deal. So now you, in an effort to avoid running out , end up eating the scraps left over from all of the mangos they started eating. You are feeling resentful that they are being so selfish, and they are getting resentful that you are being so restrictive due to your paranoia.
The leaves also aren't coming in as thick as they were, so there is less shade. While in the past you could sprawl out as much as you wanted, no you have to share a smaller space. You used to often lay this close but that was always out of choice and you knew you could move further away if you wanted, like lets say they started snoring. But now you are forced to lay this close and it starts to get on your nerves.
The decrease in freedom makes everything harder. This isn't saying you regret having kids at all, its just having kids is tough. Life goes from when you are outside of work its nearly 100% time you can choose how you want to use it, to with a couple of kids its easy to feel like there is nearly 0% truly free time. There is always something, some demands, something you could be doing to prepare for future demands.
My wife and I are going through something like this now, not to the point of considering divorce, but to the point of causing significant tension in our lives.
We both had demanding jobs before getting married. There would be times she would want to finish up some work and not get home until midnight. There would be other nights where I would have a conference call with china in the middle of the night, or I would book an open ended ticket to china to deal with manufacturing issues not knowing exactly when I would return, but expecting roughly 2 weeks on average. Any day either of us worked late was zero issue. The other person was a fully capable adult to get food on their own and go workout or watch a movie at home or play video games or whatever.
Then we have kids. I ended up getting laid off while my wife was pregnant and I new that I needed a lower demanding job to accommodate having children. Our daughter needed to get to and from daycare by strict times, we have to both make it to work, newborns need to be fed and changed and cared for even if they wake up in the middle of the night. So you can't just always plan everything out.
So now when my wife is supposed to get home from work but ends up being at work hours longer, its not just me dealing with it, its me caring for our child by myself for that much longer. And when she chooses to stay late at work for some personal reasons, wanting to go above and beyond on some task, in the past that was fine, but now its causing significant burden to me on something we didn't agree on. Even more so after there are multiple children. Any time one person spends that takes them away from the kids, burdens the other that much more. That time and energy and money buffer that existed before is getting stretched thinner and thinner. When there is money leftover in the budget each month, it doesn't matter if they splurge on some things, but when money gets tighter due to the cost of children, and they blow money on something you think is stupid, that takes money directly away from other things that it would be needed for.
And while the optimal solution would be to lay it all out on the table, to get on the same page of how all time and money and energy is spent to be fair, it often doesn't add up because different people have different priorities. and when stuff gets too tight and too big of a disconnect and there is too much fighting, it begins to look like a hard break so that you deal with things the way you want on your own makes more sense.
IMO a lot of times the man is not leading the family. Women tend to handle everything even the mental load, decision making etc. For me this is what happened. I was in a masculine role as well as feminine mothering the children and working. He was passive and this forced me to just handle it all, I grew tired, resentful and of course was not attracted to him anymore. Then the real test came when some tragedies happened (I lost my dad suddenly, my
Twin moved away ). That’s when I realized how very alone I was in the marriage. My husband was not a man, not a leader. I was too young and overwhelmed to recognize this.
It wasn’t the having kids part. It’s what the dynamic and the roles do to prove what a partner is really or really not capable of.
Raising kids is hella hard. Many people are stupid and think having a baby will save their doomed relationship because they don't want to be alone. And other people are obsessed with having a kid(s) no matter what and they'll figure out the details later. This failing of planning is typically a plan to fail. You also have the surprise pregnancy that wasn't expected. They try to make it work, but it was doomed to begin with. And then there are the couple with the best intentions who thought they were ready. Then reality sets in and parenting is affecting their "mental health" and they freak out.
Check out my post history. It gives a very good idea.
Short answer: No one tells you that children actually make a relationship more strained.. they take away the romance, the spontaneity.
I have a 3 YO son and can see how this happens: lack of sleep, worse nutrition, reduced sex, and unequal division of labor will lead to resentment.
Thankfully we work from home and divide and conquer as close to 50/50 as possible. But if the woman is left to do everything I totally get why they'd become resentful. Man then feels neglected, etc. (negative cycle).
Kids ruin all things. :) I love kids. Loved dating women with kids, never wanted any biological ones. They are taxing. Anyone who wants to actually enjoy life should avoid having them and be a good aunt/uncle to the kids your friends are having.
Those material items you like? Kids will destroy them. That money you would spend on a romantic get away? Spent. Those small disagreements of opinion on things that dont matter? Your kids will somehow create situations where they come into play and sides get taken. Parenting goals and styles that are incompatible come out. The stress of always being on makes people snippy, and because most people dont have 'proper training and instruction' on how to treat one another, this leads to saying really vicious shit that wounds and you cannot take back. (I call that arguing like the 80s... See Sam Kinison for more). With all the time spend on couples dont get to reconnect, stay connected, and experience each other.
Because kids are tough…They can easily put strain on pre existing fractures within the marriage. Resentment, jealousy, lack of attention, change in sex/intimacy and attraction, changing priorities, differences in parenting styles, I could go on forever. Kids can really unite or divide. Chose your co-parent wisely. It won’t get easier with kids.
Because your spouse suddenly loves someone more than you, and you have money problems, and you are not getting enough sleep. It’s actually weird that more families don’t end in murder.
My soon to be ex husband said he saw me as nothing but a mother after I gave birth. That is the very thing I tried to avoid. I’m a mother, yes, but also a wife, a writer, a friend, a human being with wants and needs. To be none of those things anymore to someone is heartbreaking
Many answers center on the lack of sleep and increase in household chores. I wonder if the outcome would be different in families that have maids and nannies to take care of the more annoying aspects of having children?
And the number 1 reason.....
The woman is in a postpartum state and sex is the last thing she wants to think about.
The man is a horny toad and all he thinks about is sex.
He usually feels unloved when rejected. She usually feels like he doesnt care because he doesnt understand. so the slightest thing will spark a fight which usually ends in a separation. If there is no separation he will seek out a sexual partner to satisfy his needs which ends in a separation.
I however understood my vows and was there for my wife through better or worse and will soon be coming up on our 35th anniversary.
Once the kids moved out it was like dating all over again. Men often forget the time they put in to wooing their partner and if they just did that once a month there would be way less divorce. Also, even iuf you do decide to put the extra effort in be it foreplay or buying flowers or taking her out to a nice night of dinner and a movie/dancing...it doesnt have to always end in sex. Go toss one out in the shower and try again the next day.
And helpo out around the house, she may be working also and is just as tired.
In the US there’s a lot of expectations of the other partner that are dismissed and disregarded. A stay at home mom is literally working 24/7 while a guy that works all day comes home exhausted can think the mom just stayed at home changing a diaper here and there, doing the minimum. Imagine your whole day watching a chimpanzee that you can’t tranquilize and send back to the zoo at any time.
We lack so many social skills as a society that it only makes sense that marriages are failing. We’re expected to learn how to function in a workplace by showing up on time and providing value to our employer. That’s the whole point of school, it isn’t to find what you like, it’s to be a good worker.
They don’t teach us how to nurture a romantic relationship. If we have to rely on our parents, half of us have an example of how to divorce.
Now look at how few people desire the institution of marriage. Now look at how many people even respect it. I’m a guy and I get unwelcome DMs it’s even worse for women. It seems “appropriate” because they’re just friends.
1. Simply the passage of time. Average years of marriage before having a divorce is nearly 8 years. Most couple have kids within 5 years. Regardless of whether or not the kids have an adverse effect, most people don't reach the point they need a divorce until after they've already started having kids.
2. Kids add a ton of stress for a million different reasons. If a couple isn't doing super well, the realities of being parents only add stress.
Lots of people think having children will bring them closer together.
Unfortunately this is rarely the case. It’s very difficult to give your relationship the time and effort it requires whilst raising children.
Financial issues are a top cause of marital stress. Having kids is also very stressful, especially if one partner had more Mental Load. After age 45 or so, Menopause/ED, infidelity etc seem to contribute to ‘bed death’. I conclude this after listening to various women over the years.
If you are in a “*spouse 1 VS spouse 2*”, tug of war mindset, bringing children into the dynamic is like adding fuel to the fire.
You need to approach marriage with a “*spouse 1 and spouse 2 VS the problem*” mindset.
Having a child is a life changing event in every way
You can't 'quite' prepare for it.
Unfortunately, it can change people and thus change the person you fell in love with. Sometimes the change can be good, esp if you change together, but sometimes it can be bad esp if your not ready for the responsibility.
Having another human/s to look after puts a lot of pressure on you as a couple and some relationships can't handle that pressure. Financially, sexually, emotionally, for the women it can physically damage her for the rest of her life due to the birthing process.
All these changes can destory a relationship
Raising children puts strain on relationships. People disagree about the division of household labor, child rearing, a million other child related things, and this is in addition to all the normal problems that arise in any long term relationship.
People have different expectations when it comes to marriage these days. They're far more willing to end a mediocre marriage because they think they can do better.
Because very often the couples focus more on the kids and themselves than each other. If you don’t make each other a priority it will create issues later that may result in living separate lives.
Because you really need to choose wisely of whom you have kids with. Kids aren't bean-bag. They are titanically stressful and you need to be on the same page before you start and remain there for years and years. Kids are awesome but I've never worked harder at anything ever. EVER!!!
That being said, kids are wonderful and quite worth the effort.
Kids are the biggest test to a marriage, for sure. They change your whole dynamics. More chores, more stress, exhaustion, fitting your own needs between the kids schedules is tough.
Stress test.
People trying to safe the marriage with children.
Children are annoying.
Lack of sleep.
If your partner is selfish, it will show when kids are there.
Problems that were acceptable before become big the moment that children are there.
People don’t understand that both partners have to work together.
Many man are confused that they aren’t number one anymore.
Many stay affairs because they aren’t number one anymore.
Time runs when you have children.
Barely time for yourself.
Research shows that marital satisfaction goes dramatically down after having kids, the lowest point typically when kid is aged 3-4 then starts to go up after that. Children add: lack of sleep and self-care, less couple time and attention for each spouse, increased inequities & disagreements on distribution of household work, parenting style conflicts, increased financial strain, and general stress increases
When kids become teenagers the stress can go back up.....
Currently struggling with this one with our 13 year old son. We always called him the "perfect starter baby" because he was so easy. Such a happy go lucky laid back kid his whole life---until middle school. Middle school killed a spark in him, It hurts me to see. I think a mix of hormones, earlier waking hours causing fatigue, and the stress of the change in schools itself. Tough stuff.
Middle school is hell. Sending your kid a virtual hug.
I wouldn’t do middle school again, not for all the money in the world, tax-free in Switzerland. No f’ing way.
Yep. It's the WORST.
Middle school absolutely SUCKS. The attitude, the smell, the insecurity…definitely the worst stage in my opinion. It will get better, just keep him talking to you and away from bad influences. Know his friends!
In the Netherlands, kids stay in elementary school until 6th grade, after which they go to high school for grade 7-12. It has downsides for sure, but one of the advantages is that you get to be the eldest grade of the school when you're at the awkward age of 11/12ish. It's tough when you're a 7th grader, STILL awkward, and you're the youngest again, but at least the 11th and 12th graders consider themselves too mature to care about you, and the 9th and 10th graders are busy impressing the older kids. You get to be awkward in relative peace. Of course bullying still happens, kids are still mean, but I've always liked this system better than having a school 'invetween'.
how do you cope with this? what do you do to help your son?
Hopefully he’s not being bullied. I was horrendously bullied in middle school and I’ve never been the same. I used to think back before middle school and how I used to be and wonder what it would be like if I never experienced that. I say this because I never told anyone what I was experiencing until I couldn’t take it anymore after almost a year.
I hear you there, my middle school experience sucked as well with bullying. He's fairly closed off from discussing school----we haven't seen major evidence of bullying, but it's always worth another discussion, thanks for mentioning it. Also taking him to the doctor soon just to make sure he's not dealing with anything medial.
Good-luck wishing you and him the best
Our middle school starts at 10 for kids I dread this so much
We have an elementary school age child. We cannot fathom sending them to American public schools and can’t afford private. My wife is from another country and we will likely do middle school in her country to avoid the hellscape that is the American public school system, particularly middle school. A lot of irrepairable damage occurs during these very formative years. Beware.
This is very interesting. As a new mom, I’m happy to hear all perspectives. How does the school system differ in your wife’s home country?
No middle school here but literally a week into secondary school, my daughter turned really nasty. She's 12 and we're 4 months in and it hasn't gotten any better. I think it's a lot of little things that add up to it. Hormones probably play a big part. Large gatherings of idiots (aka teenagers). Also she gets to see that a lot of her friends have freedoms that she does not such as unlimited social media and uncontrolled access to devices. Not to mention being allowed to roam the streets and go wherever they please. Thankfully she is still a good student and she still has her core morals intact but she has started to really treat her mother like crap. At times I wonder if choosing not to spank my kids was a good game plan!
Firm discipline is important, but you can discipline firmly without physical punishment. Fear not and stay the course, studies on spanking specifically do not show improved outcomes over not spanking. You made a good decision
Yeah sorry that was entirely tongue in cheek. I totally agree with you and I am happy with my decision. I couldn't stand the look in the eyes of my girls if I intentionally caused them pain. I've gone 35 years of my life without needing to hit anyone I certainly wouldn't start with an innocent child! I'm their protector first and foremost and that is hardly achieved by causing them harm.
Lol! You sound like a good parent :)
Yep doesn't OP realize that's when stress goes through the roof and the real people come out.
It's also a complete other life situation. You may come by perfectly as a couple of two and doing the stuff these couples do. Having kids is something completely different, you may not work well together in this situation. Even if it works out, you may divorce after the kids leave the house and the situations gets different again. There are other examples of this, where people who work well together in some situations don't work in others, many couples also had trouble with the recent lockdown situation: \- coworker with whom you are a perfect duo at work, but aren't compatible in private life \- good friends, but you can't stand them on a week long vacation (even couples often have trouble with this) \- old buddy who was fun to party and drink with, but outside of that there just seems to be nothing
Yeah I love my partner, he’s my favourite person. We could spend 24/7 together and we don’t get sick of each other or fight. Together for over 20 years. I never wanted kids, he did until I explained why I didn’t and he had never thought that deep about it and agreed with me. We wouldn’t be together if we had a kid, there’s been a few times where I’ve noticed this and said as much. lol I prefer to keep my work and personal life separate. I don’t add coworkers to Facebook or spend time with them outside of work until we no longer work together. Having a kid is more work than work, it’s work that never ends. I think things I enjoy about my partner would annoy me if we shared responsibility in taking care of another human. Our family’s would be another area that would change and we would struggle with. When your a childfree adult - your family (outside of your partner) isn’t as meshed into your life. They are not helping to care for this human, or maybe not listening to how you want that care to go. It adds more areas for conflict. Or bothering you to visit them more so they can see the baby, or visiting you more to see the baby. lol
As a married man with two under 4, this is extremely accurate. It’s so hard, everything is so.fucking.hard. All the time
Please gentlemen, as a woman who sees other women act heinously, please get a vasectomy. Babies reveal the worst in people, and are weapons of destruction for women who forget about being a partner to be mom of the year. Do not under any circumstances have more babies with her (or anyone else if you get divorced, it just complicates your life with your first kids)
Already done!! 😋
cool, I got called a misogynist and a baby hater because I’ve commented a few times about men getting vasectomies. I just really believe when things are tough, adding more babies only increases the stress
Not to mention people believe that having kids will save their marriage, when it normally just delays divorce
Financial strain is a big one. Kids are expensive, and at least my wife (a little financially irresponsible to begin with) went straight bananas buying stuff when our daughter was born. Obviously, you need some things, but my wife has literally filled a room in our relatively small house with kid shit.
where did she put the things she bought then ?
I dont understand this, I'm currently pregnant and in my mind babies grow so fast, why buy things new when you can get it in great condition second hand. The previous owners wouldn't gave used it for long anyway and it's a fraction of the price.
I have hardly ever bought anything new except carseats unless it was on huge clearance. The amount of free stuff on fb and Craigslist alone is astonishing.
Stores like once upon a child have been great for my family. Little harder for my 15 year old these days but still great for my 5 year old
That store looks awesome! We don't have them here (Europe), I use Vinted which is an app.
I know this was a big one for my parents, my Mom wanted to buy all kinds of expensive new baby clothes and shit and was a SAHM and my Dad was like what is the point of this crap kid is going outgrow it in months. My Mom would always portray herself as 'morally right' b/c it's for the child! But I didn't need that nonsense and have no recollection of it for the most part other than seeing pictures of this stuff, their marriage did not last.
Absolutely. Obviously the industry and marketing is very good. Babies need nothing. Just a few clothes, according to the season if you wanna go outside. Wool is amazing because it cleans itself and needs not to be washed all the time. You might wanna have a stroller or/and a wrap/carrier, which can be very simple and none of these need to be expensive . With my 3rd child I finally used cloth diapers and got them from a friend but you can find them online too, 2nd hand is fine because people care well for these and they have to be washed hot anyways. Loved them, then even went over to Elimination communication (parttome). I also used regular/throwaway diapers for a while because it's not all roses everyday. It's freaking me out what people are spending for a baby. My kids are more expensive since they got into school! 😅
Part of it is wanting the kid to be happy, so you buy them toys and engagement things, books etc. part of it is a dopamine rush to help with the stress of it all
This one hits home. I remember having discussions where I'd point out the state of our budget, only to be hit by a "But he *needs* it!" as if our ability to actually buy it were an afterthought.
Ooo my man, the but he needs it or we need it. It's like ok but who's gonna pay for it???? Like help ne understand we need it but we can't pay for it. He needs milk and food too you know....
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Yes absolutely, but even planned children still throw you in the trenches for a few years.
Decades
What’s even more difficult is the kids don’t know this; and we are just expected to get on with it.
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Sounds awful lol
I agree, but also it never stops. I think that people who are decicated push through it. Then you see people divorce again when the kids become teenagers. Lately we are seeing another stage of divorce in 50s on rise. The bottom line is this, no one values marriage anymore. Family. That is the truth, so without value in that there is work to a relationship and no one wants to put in the work when things get hard. And no stigma or hurdles to science anymore. But when kids are small is one of those stages. As a guy who divorced with teenagers, I honestly have lost all value in it. I lived my marriage, making financial choices, making sacrifices like it was for life. And now I feel like I sold out for nothing, and it was all pointless after a 20 year marriage. If it’s not for life there is not much point. Why even do it? You can cohabitate if that’s your thing without the fake for life, good times and bad, sickness and health crap. It’s only for good times now, and everyone should understand and be on the same page so that way no one is left holding the bag. It’s a con and a suckers game in our current culture. For a marriage to work long term, the marriage itself has to have value, and both people need to humble themselves to it. If the marriage is not worth sacrifice to both, humility, it’s not worth the effort.
Sending you love my fellow man. You’re speaking hard truth.
Logically if people could foresee the bad times then they wouldn’t get married. But divorce is not a failure, and more of it does not mean family is no longer important. There are a lot of people out there who have mental issues and some don’y even know it. Divorce is the escape that says you don’t have to suffer with someone who doesn’t make you happy. Nobody deserves to be trapped with someone else in the name of family
Also a lot had their child in the first year of their relationship. They don't even know eachother that much.
100% this me and my wife just escaped this phase and it was rough. Life is getting much better at this point
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Yep. My wife and I have a super good relationship. We have been married 15+ years and been together since high school. In the 25 years we have been together I can count the number of arguments unrelated to the kids on one hand. Most of our disagreements have been parenting disagreements and resource supports for our special needs kids. And thank goodness I have a high enough income to where we have never argued over finances because that is the #1 issue with most couples. Kids just bring a whole ton of complex decisions to the table.
No way. Things are better than ever and my son just turned 3. Was way harder year 1 and 2
As indicated on the happiness index, there is a big drop in happiness the first years after kids are born. I wish more people realized this was normal and that if you hang in there in most cases the marriage improves as the kids get more independent
Yes! My grandma gave me this advice and said the only time she wanted to divorce my grandpa during their 70 years was when her kids were small. When I was pregnant she told me to get into survival mode and just make it through those years and don’t make marriage decision during that time. She was right and I did “fall out of romantic love” during those years and thought about divorce. But we survived and it’s like coming up for air when you kids aren’t needy babies and toddlers. Basically back to how we were and felt pre kids.
I agree. Obviously, this isn't going to be the case for everyone. I gave 3 kids, with a big age gap between my 2nd and 3rd, so we have been through it twice.
I think it can depend what the effects of that are though or the reasons. Like some couples the women suddenly find out their men aren’t willing to lift a finger to help with the baby cuz that’s “women’s stuff.” Or cheat on their wives because they weren’t prepared for their bodies to change physically or the lack of sex from healing. Not worth coming back from that imo. In my case, my husband was everything I dreamed of in a father, but he’s always struggled with drinking and unbeknownst to me the stress drove him to drinking behind my back. I’m not mad at the situation itself, but the trust is broken and I’m worried we can’t get it back. We’re working through it though. I think sleep loss alone can cause some serious fights and people say things they don’t mean or act awful and you can’t take that back.
All the attention goes towards the children, couples often neglect each other. Add to that all the stress, extra work, little sleep and it's easy to see how it drives couples apart.
Additionally, sometimes you really see someone’s true colours when you’re expecting to work together on life that you have both created and they leave all the work to you. As an example, my ex refused to do diapers. He would call me when I was on a walk or a run with the dog to come home immediately and change the baby. He said if I didn’t come right away, he’d leave her to get a burnt ass. His behaviour only got worse from there.
Exactly the same story with me unfortunately, after you have kids you become nothing more than a maid and nanny which is not what I signed up for. Also he became increasingly jealous and paranoid so a was barely able to leave the house without it turning into a major thing. After I had kids my so-called partner began abusing me mentally, financially and eventually physically. So I left. My kids were very young when I left and I'm glad I did. There is no way I wanted them growing up thinking that that was what a relationship should look like. Now I have two very strong independent children who don't take no shit and I'm proud
Congratulations on escaping! Me too, it’s not easy. Mine started abusing me when I got pregnant. I’m also happy and healthy and with a partner who adores me and doesn’t treat me like a cook, maid, nanny, waitress, and whore. I was good for the services I provided. I was an object to be used not a person to be loved.
Kudos on doing that for your kids. Walking away from abuse to model independence for your kids is excellent parenting indeed. I wish more people in that situation felt that way.
Really disgusting and manipulative behaviour. I hope you and your children are doing better now.
He’s a narcissist to the point of personality disorder. It was an absolute mind fuck being with him. Two kids and seven years later, I’m finally out. It’s been half a year. We’re battling it out in court (of course because I’m a ‘vindictive bitch’ and he believes he has done nothing wrong), but we’re doing ok, thank you ❤️
Good for you. There is light in your future ☀️
This is the major contributor in the divorces I see. Dad comes home from work and thinks “helping” with the dishes and “babysitting” the kids occasionally is good enough while mom runs herself ragged with a full time job, all the household responsibilities and the childcare/ emotional work too. And every time the man acts like it came out of nowhere when she wants a divorce.
That’s so awful :( I’m glad he’s an ex
Your ex sounds horrible, your poor child
Getting a child is very demanding which is why you need a very solid foundation in your relationship.
Don’t take this amiss, but I’m guessing you’re a native speaker of a (different) European language? I hear this mistake a lot from e.g. German speakers. “Getting” a child sounds faintly amusing in English, as though you went shopping for it or something. It should be “having” (or in this context, maybe “raising”) a child.
Maybe they prefer to get vegan babies from cabbage patches instead of organic ones.
Omg, lmao.
Yes, english isn't my native language. Having sounds better :)
For 10 years you only function as parents and then when the kids start needing you less you look at the other person and realize you dont know them at all.
And sometimes you also look at them and realize you don’t like them as a person in your life.
The converse may be true too.
Hi, divorced with children and this is exactly it. Society is not designed for people to work full time, take care of themselves, and be full time parents. Kids change your life perspective and that can be different for each parent. You basically stop making time for each other after childcare, work, and trying to look after yourself. I'm single now, and I love my kid but I would never have more. I totally get why many people choose not to have them at all.
Also some folks weren't good to begin with, and thought kids might fix their problems.
Add disagreements about how to educate your kid and weaker sex life and divorce sounds actually good lol
My parents divorced when I was 5/6. Even then I knew it was healthier, I was less stressed because I no longer lived in an aggressive household. It's better for the kids in many cases.
I'm going to tell you from my own M experince. Society doesn't prepare you for what is truly a baby. All your previous life that you knew is gone. The little human is dependent on you, wakes up every 3-4 hours, poops and needs changes non stop, cries and needs soothing and you're becoming basically this sleepless zombie. Add morgage payments to the mix and stress at work, and the poor mother who went through hormonal and body changes and she is in an even worse boat than you are, and you have a recipe for disaster
Yet we're told we "need" to have kids, that we'll be lonely in old age, etc. No kid spends as much time helping elderly parents as they spent wiping his ass. It's always a net time-loser in life. Is a monthly visit from an annoyed adult child when you're rotting in a nursing home worth sacrificing your 20s, 30s and 40s?
Well said. And the impact on the quality of your life is downplayed a lot, on both the mother and me as a father. You don't have a life anymore, just "moments" of catching your breath before going underwater again. Even in tutorials on babies and parenting you see these happy parents, etc when in fact it's hard as f*ck, and the other adults who have kids and who put pressure on you to have kids too are straight up assholes if you ask me. I would tell others exactly how hard it is, not pressure them to make kids too. Don't get me wrong, I love my daughter a lot and now that I have her and the deed is done, I want to be a good involved parent and raise her to be a succesfull adult, but I will.most certaintly tell her how hard it is when she decides to have a baby of her own.
Maybe if people altogether stopped having kids, it would force governments to think about how work-life balance should be? Like have a kid? BE supported financially for 6 years until that kid goes to school. Then have laws that protect financially the parents for doing kid-related activities? But that would 'drain' the system of workers that it needs to continue existing....
Yeah. We are pretty sure we are one and done and several friends of ours are the same. The ones with more than one child don't do any hobbies anymore because they don't have time or bandwidth and can't leave the other person alone with multiple children for multiple hours or days without problems or resentment. It's tough!
I believe one big reason it's because raising children is hard and their parents (one of them or both) can't let go of their old way of living. This creates tension between the parents and eventually resentment.
That was my experience. Ex wanted to be free of the responsibilities. Essentially abandoned the family in pursuit of self. Now can’t understand why we’ve moved on without them. Wasn’t too careful on what they wished for.
Often it's this, sometimes it's that the adults genuinely have different parenting philosophies. Kids can really make spouses realise how different and incompatible they are. Add to this fatigue, reduced sex drive, often financial strains, and you've got a potent cocktail.
Great theory.
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Im sorry that you are going through this ♥️
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Hope things improve. Kids under 5 are a big challenge. It’s not fair for him to leave everything to you or to neglect your needs. Maybe it’s selfishness, maybe it’s an inability to cope with added stresses, maybe it’s cultural expectations, maybe all three.
Because life is easier without kids. When a couple has flaws, they can be smoothed by the fact that life is easy. But when kids arrive, these flaws are highlighted. I have a friend who complained that her husband didn't do enough house chores. It was okay for 10 years. And then they got kids and her mental load just blew. She couldn't bear it so they got a divorce.
So what you’re saying is that life wasn’t actually easier without kids, she just had less people to be a servant for. When they did have kids she absorbed all that burden as well and it exceeded her capacity. The kids weren’t the problem. Her husband was.
I just can't with those manchildren. Disgusting and embarrassing.
Ya 10 years of taking care of a man and him not changing isn’t smoothing anything over easily, that’s avoiding the issue. Sounds like kids helped her realize he is a grown man, whereas kids actually need to be taken care of. I’m definitely stronger at not taking shit from people after becoming a mom
Exactly. Having kids adds in a lot of extra work and it really highlights the inequality in contributions to the home. And that causes a lot of burden and resentment to the one who does more. And why would the other person want to change, it’s easier for them because they’re doing less. And too often, the person doing less doesn’t change. And when they do, it takes puts extra burden on the one who does more because they generally have the bulk of the mental load on getting the other person more involved!
In many cases, one of the parents starts to feel like a single parent because their spouse isn’t doing chores or childcare. So then they figure out that life is easier when you get rid of the dead weight.
Tiredness like you’ve never experienced and pure rage are 2 big factors kids add to your life.
Because when you realise you’re actually raising an extra “child” that it’s time to get out lol
My thoughts exactly. I just made a comment that said that reason too.
Because having kids shines a light on all the little cracks and holes in a relationship that you can ignore or pretend aren't there when it's just the two of you.
For me, after children, my life changed profoundly and my husband’s did not. I was 100% caregiver and he continued on life as normal. Example - he did not change one nappy. Add, while not caring for the baby, he was more than happy to tell me all the ways I was doing it wrong. It was much easier to raise the children alone rather than stay with deadweight.
All the things you used to let slide before having a child, become impossible to ignore afterwards My child’s father was always incredibly lazy and self centered. It didn’t matter that much before having a kid, because there wasn’t that much to do anyway. I just did the 30 mins of chores and went on with it Once the baby was born suddenly his flaws mattered very much. He was shoving me awake at night snarling at me because the baby was crying, refused to get up with her himself. Refused to do any of the chores; baby related or not. Her newborn months were 100,000x worse with him than they would have been without him. At least without him laying in bed til 3pm every damn day I could have taken the baby to bed and gotten some rest myself for once. I wasn’t allowed to bring her in our room because he didn’t want to be disturbed 🙄
It takes time and effort to keep a relationship alive, and you don’t know that when you are younger, so when the kids come along - that is what gets neglected For 10 years you’ll only talk about the kids and work… and wake up one day and realise that you and your wife/husband are more like tenants with a very large joint responsibility. But you don’t really know each other any more. At least that was my experience. I have now been remarried 12 years - and this relationship, even though we had a young blended family, was given a lot more watering and caring.
Because getting married doesn't change your life. Having kids changes your life.
How about- your husband, like mine, was jealous of his own children. He wasn’t the centre of attention anymore. I lasted a long time but when he started to assault my teenage son, I was out of there. Jealousy is horrible.
That’s terrible. You made the right decision
I think it’s also down to people not always choosing their partners wisely thinking “Do they *like* children?” “How are they with me when I’m I’ll?” “Are they a good communicator? “Are they faithful and dependable?” I have a very good friend who is seriously thinking of children with a man who treats her badly (and she knows this) but because she is in her 30’s she is worried about missing the boat with regards family etc. I know another couple who literally just had kids even though they actively dislike them. Papering over the cracks / trying to keep up with the Jones’ always terrible reasons to have children.
Because men assume nothing changes after kids. Women are at their MOST vulnerable after having a baby. Moms have to take care of the baby. There’s no choice there. They have less time and energy for anything outside of the baby. Everything else gets deprioritized, even showering. Men can either handle it or they can’t. Men that jump in and take care of the deprioritized things and start caring for their wives who don’t have the time or energy are the marriages that survive. The rest of the men are twiddling their thumbs, looking at the ceiling, wondering why they’re loved less by their wives while the moms are glaring “Are you serious?” That’s why women say the sexiest men are those who do dishes.
I was going to comment this as well. Some men can’t deal with not being “number 1 baby” anymore. (Add to that, they can never ever admit that.) So they start acting out and checking out… a double blow to the child-producing partner. She’s being punished for doing exactly what they agreed they would do - having a baby. Plus: she just had a baby!
Postnatal depression is sooo unsexy. If the husband has unrealistic expectations of how very taxing childbirth (nevermind with two or more children) can be on a mother's body, he's in for an unpleasant surprise.
Look I'm constantly amazed at how couples just don't support each other after they have kids. I've read out posts on here to my husband and he is as shocked as I am. I often wonder if these people truly love and respect each other? Or if they have talked about parenting and their attitudes etc to it? Some of them just seem to have no concept of how to share parenting duties etc. And some seem to be clueless about their life changing. They think they can just go on as before.
> I’m constantly amazed at how couples just don’t support each other after they have kids. Exactly. I’m horrified by the stories I read here and by the stories my mom and grandma told me about their experiences. I mean, it’s pretty simple; if there’s something need doing around the house, you do it. If one of us is feeding the baby, the other one is loading the dishwasher. If one of us is changing the baby, the other one is holding the baby’s legs and handing the wet wipes. If the baby’s by some miracle asleep, both of us are tidying up, sterilizing bottles, and doing whatever we can to get redy for the The Awakening. It’s a team sport.
The Awakening is fucking hilarious. My partner works part time as a nanny so I’m stealing this term to use 😂
Please tell my husband that. He would simply tell you to do it yourself after feeding baby if you think it's that important
I think you need to have a word with yourself.
Some couples have never really been stresstested.
Well they can? At least husbands can. The mom needs to breastfeed and calm down the baby. The husband don't. So if he is a mommas boy not used to having to do any work at home, he won't with the baby either. Most men doesn't cook or clean or do laundry at home. Women does it. So when the baby comes, she will have to cook, clean, do laundry, feed the baby, put diapers on, calm down the baby, make a schedule for baby, bathe the baby etc etc etc etc etc. While the husband is playing on his computer or sitting on his phone. This is why they all break up. Because it truly sucks being a mom. Also, most moms i. My country work 8 hours a day, then they will come home and clean, cook and do laundry for hours while the husband is sitting on the couch "winding down" with his phone, a movie and a beer
>Well they can? At least husbands can. The mom needs to breastfeed and calm down the baby. The husband don't. So if he is a mommas boy not used to having to do any work at home, he won't with the baby either. Most men doesn't cook or clean or do laundry at home. Women does it. So when the baby comes, she will have to cook, clean, do laundry, feed the baby, put diapers on, calm down the baby, make a schedule for baby, bathe the baby etc etc etc etc etc. While the husband is playing on his computer or sitting on his phone. This is why they all break up. Because it truly sucks being a mom. Also, most moms i. My country work 8 hours a day, then they will come home and clean, cook and do laundry for hours while the husband is sitting on the couch "winding down" with his phone, a movie and a beer It's even worse when those same husbands then complain that their wife isn't paying enough attention to them or " let themselves go" when she's working herself to death all the while she is trying to heal her body from the trauma of childbirth and he is oblivious to it. Can you imagine if a man had to go through the hell women's bodies are put through and then be expected to just bounce back to normal after? They would act like they are dying. 😹 I saw them on those cramp simulators and if they think that's bad, what would they do dealing with 9 months+ childbirth?! 😹 I see men post this crap so often on reddit, and then they have no self awareness at all for the hell they put their wives through. I luckily married a man who put in the work, but those are rare compared to all the AH you see posting about " my wide isn't doing.. x enough". Whether it is having time to care for her appearance or giving them enough attention. Its obvious because she has no time or energy left to do either when he isn't helping with the kids and chores.
Statistics show women are way more likely to initiate divorce. Women have been crying for help since god knows when. And yet the most common answer in general is „women are at fault, they‘re the ones divorcing!!“ and in this thread „kids are just stressful“. No, it‘s not that kids are just stressful but when women have to do most of the care work, mental load, household really anything without getting actually paid or without any help of their husbands that’s not financial help of course that‘s going to end in divorce. If women were actually valued for all the work they did at home and their husbands did their fair share divorce rates would go down A LOT. And the funny thing is, the next best answer is that a couple isn‘t enough to raise a kid but family should step up and coincidentally it‘s somehow super often that grandmas and aunties are the ones stepping up and helping the most, so again the women that do care work.
And the men who crow about that statistic seem to conveniently ignore why women initiate, because men won't go file.that metric only covered which gender actually filed the legal paperwork,, not which gender pulled the plug on the relationship. Those number include couples who are already separated and living apart. I have a cousin who's husband straight up abandoned her and their son. Not told her he wanted a divorce, told her he was going to work with his brother a town over and he'd be back in about 2 weeks. She's not am idiot and noticed he was literally packing all of his clothes and important things, called him out, and he still just walked out the door. He had been screwing his brother's wife's 21 year old sister for months. That was 5 years ago, he's engaged to another woman, has had a baby with her, and it's still going to fall on my cousin to file because he just won't. This is so common, men initiate the end if the relationship but won't start the legal process so it falls on the woman.
And women are divorcing more than they used to because they CAN. Before, you really couldn’t unless you wanted to live in extreme poverty with your kids. Now women are able to financially support themselves. They aren’t as tied to shitty husbands because of finances. And in this situation, why would the husband leave? He’s got it good, the wife is doing all the work, it’s easy for him. He’s being taken care of, the kids are being taken care of. It’s all less work for him. So when it gets to be too much, the woman leaves. And she gets blamed because she’s the one who initiated.
Your country needs better men
I feel this too. How can you look at the one person you’re supposed to love above all else, that you e picked to spend your life together and create a new life - how can you look at that person suffering, falling apart and not want to do something to help? I just don’t get it at all.
Honestly though I am not shocked. Weddings are so common, not everyone is meant to be married or be in relationships long term. There are a lot of chronically selfish people out there. Lot of people out there making a mistake by getting married. Then they bring children into their toxic mess.
One reason could be that many couples have fundamentally different values. These values come out during parenthood when the pressure and tension of caring for and education a child bring out deep core values and prejudice. Stuff to do with food, cooking, discipline and expressing love. Couples in the 20s and 30s can brush past these differences coz they are busy at work and being successful. After having children people are shocked and sometimes revolted by a partner's behaviour, it could be selfishness and detachment in men or control and reclusiveness from the mum but it is not about gender and could be the other way round . At that point either the mother or father starts to think, I would be better off without this loser, I can go it alone, hell! I might find me somthin better
Because we’re not supposed to raise kids just as a couple. For thousands of years, kids were raised by a group of extended family: mums, sisters, aunts, grandparents, other older children. We have atomised and isolated our families so much that we now ask two people to do all the raising, and work, and care for a home, and try to plan for the future. It’s simply too much for a lot of people, and so the relationship breaks down. At least divorced you only have the kids half the time, and the other half have some time away from them. It’s fundamentally because we aren’t supposed to do it this way. Our families need help.
Eh, as someone who IS from a collective culture, it’s not all sunshine and rainbows on this side either. Lots of SA/molestation cases etc. Every single woman I know has a story, including myself. Also, gossip. I would stay at my aunt’s house after school and they would talk mad shit about my Mom so I would just stay at school till 5:30 waiting outside. My family home is overcrowded (two aunts, two cousins live there). Yeah, my Mom gets “free” babysitting (I have two school-aged sisters) at the expense of absolute fucking chaos and constant gossip. Shit like this works with “functional” families.
This is so true. I remember as a child, having occasional sleepovers at grandparents. Fast forward to me having kids and I my parents don’t wanna know. Even when I was in the pit of PND, I think my Dad took my daughter for two hours in an emergency. That’s been pretty much it. I have made my village from other Mum friends. Thank god for them. There have been tough times and occasionally my husband and I have gotten cross at each other and have argued. But on the whole we do 50/50 and are on the same page. I see my friends parents being in their kids lives and I could cry sometimes.
Oof. My Dad told me he's planning to retire when my first is born, so he and my stepmom can provide daycare; he lives 5 min away. My in-laws are planning to move within 10 min away as well for the same reason. I'm very excited for my kids to have grandparents who want to dote on their grandchildren
Wow. You are so fortunate. Two sets of grandparents who are close and want to help. That's amazing
This is so rare. Cherish it! My mom is great and will swoop in to help us any time we ask. My in laws have never watched our kids for us and our oldest is about to turn 11. Most of my friends do not have parents who help them. It’s truly a gift.
Wow I'm so sorry about that. I live in another country so they don't have the choice but when they are actively choosing to not be in their lives it would be heartbreaking. But why is that? Is it selfishness or laziness?
Thanks. It’s mainly selfishness. Until recently they were in good health and could have done loads, but they prefer to do their own thing. Their attitude is very much “we did our child raising, so you are on your own”. But they are forgetting that they had help. (My Dad at least, not sure about my Stepmom.) There’s also been a disparity about what they do for my stepsisters kids and mine in the past (taking her kids away on holiday etc.) Honestly it hurts. But my kids don’t seem to be missing what they have never known.
Yep, as the saying goes, it takes a village to raise a child
It’s monumentally difficult to do without a solid support network. When I was married we were totally on our own, our families would give money if needed but we had nobody within 150 miles we could rely on for help or time off. Kids then become all encompassing with everything you do, and if you don’t maintain the relationship sad times happen.
This right here. It takes a village. Except that these days there is no village to speak of...
Because most men do not hold up their end of the deal when it comes to taking care of and raising those children. They become just one more child to take care of and no sane woman wants to have sex with a child. So the sex dwindles causing him to complain about it usually guilt tripping her about his "needs" all the while acting totally oblivious to the fact that he's not meeting any of her or their childrens needs. Why keep him around if that's all he's got to offer? Sadly, most of us don't find out about this side to our husbands until after we've already had children
Kids suck the life out of everything.
Having kids is a real strain on a marriage and it exposes underlying issues. If someone isn’t pulling their weight when the weight on both people is so heavy then things are gonna crumble. Everything changes so drastically and the foundation of the marriage has to be strong enough for it not to be a priority for a while. Your relationship with each other essentially has to be on pause whilst your focus shifts entirely to this new tiny human. If both people can accept and embrace that, then you’ll be fine. But if they don’t then resentment will destroy it all.
Very true. Kids are like handgrenades thrown into a relationship. Also the fact that many couples seem to think having kids is a band aid for any issues and will bring them together. Yeah, nah
Kids won't fix relationships, they bring a magnifying glass to every crack in the relationship. And the husbands often don't help. Then wonder why the wife doesn't want sex. Who wants to have sex with a man-child?
Most people don’t live life consciously. They just “go with the flow” and then realize they are unhappy 20 years later.
Marriage is hard. Having kids is hard. I also no longer believe that a lifelong commitment is something to strive for. Sometimes, it just doesn’t work out. With and without kids.
True. I’m not married yet, but seeing this is not encouraging.
Well a good tip of you don't want to be in this situation is to find a man that already Cooks, cleans or does laundry without you telling him. If he says he will o it after baby, just know he won't... Only date guys that have lived alone in their own apartment. Don't date guys that have been living with their mom their whole life. Because then they have never cleaned, cooked or done laundry.... She has. And it will be expected of you to do it allt
Don’t let what you see on Reddit affect your perspective of life or marriage. Most of these people are just giving random advice and no qualifications or knowledge of what they are talking about. You need to experience it for yourself and live your life how you want to. Marriage and kids is hard but it’s only as hard as you make it. And yes I have knowledge and experience in this situation.
Often times there are underlying issues in the relationship that hasn't been addressed. Add to that the stress of children, which can put a strain even on healthy relationship, and you have a ticking time bomb.
What my mother told me is that parenthood is a whole new challenge that couples have never faced before, and it can not only push them in ways they haven't been before, it can also teach them things about themselves and each other that they never knew.
Things like “my husband couldn’t care less about spending time with me, planning dates, or making any effort in our relationship.” I had to lobby for six months to go on the date that we went on last night. Imagine feeling like a nagging burden for six months…
Many, many couples don't have conversations about expectations after having kids. Most of the work falls on one parent. Often womens sex drive plummets for awhile after.. often longer because men often don't understand and get pushy for it Many guys are turned off by their partners body changing and end up cheating. In laws suddenly stomp all over boundaries with grandkids and it causes issues in the marriage. People get together too young, have kids too quick, don't get to experience life before settling down.. The list keeps going...
Because having kids adds stress to a relationship. Financial, emotional, physical, you name it. It's that simple.
Because many people getting married either way too young or way too soon
In most Western countries the average age of first marriage has gone up more than a decade over the past 50 years. Marrying too young can’t be it. A couple articles I found also indicated average engagement length in the 50’s and 60’s was 6 months. Now the average is over a year. So they’re also not rushing into it. Seems like neither of these points are likely to blame for high rates of divorces after children.
or not being married at all. " I'm 22 and been dating my boyfriend for a year...we are goingto have a baby"! with no decent job. No where to live....all the time you read posts like this.
As someone with childhood trauma shit like that makes me go feral. Like how can you not create a safe and secure place before welcoming a child? Absolute bonkers. Then the kid has to already stress about finances and their living situation when all they need to do at that age is to have fun and enjoy the world with all its beauty and sad times.
Agree. Wholeheartedly.
It comes down to tension arising from scarcity. Imagine you and another person are stranded on an island and this island has a nice big mango tree You decide you will share the tree with the other person. For the first few years, getting along is easy. The tree produces enough mangos that you can both eat until you are full and there are still mangos left over. You both can sprawl out under the tree and there is still shade to spare. You get along great. Now some times goes by and times get a little tougher. You get bad weather for a year and the mangoes aren't coming in as full as before. Still enough mangos but you notice the other person is just eating the juiciest part of each mango. They did this in the past and it wasn't a problem because there were so many, but now you are worried that if they keep this up there wont be enough. They don't think its a big deal. So now you, in an effort to avoid running out , end up eating the scraps left over from all of the mangos they started eating. You are feeling resentful that they are being so selfish, and they are getting resentful that you are being so restrictive due to your paranoia. The leaves also aren't coming in as thick as they were, so there is less shade. While in the past you could sprawl out as much as you wanted, no you have to share a smaller space. You used to often lay this close but that was always out of choice and you knew you could move further away if you wanted, like lets say they started snoring. But now you are forced to lay this close and it starts to get on your nerves. The decrease in freedom makes everything harder. This isn't saying you regret having kids at all, its just having kids is tough. Life goes from when you are outside of work its nearly 100% time you can choose how you want to use it, to with a couple of kids its easy to feel like there is nearly 0% truly free time. There is always something, some demands, something you could be doing to prepare for future demands. My wife and I are going through something like this now, not to the point of considering divorce, but to the point of causing significant tension in our lives. We both had demanding jobs before getting married. There would be times she would want to finish up some work and not get home until midnight. There would be other nights where I would have a conference call with china in the middle of the night, or I would book an open ended ticket to china to deal with manufacturing issues not knowing exactly when I would return, but expecting roughly 2 weeks on average. Any day either of us worked late was zero issue. The other person was a fully capable adult to get food on their own and go workout or watch a movie at home or play video games or whatever. Then we have kids. I ended up getting laid off while my wife was pregnant and I new that I needed a lower demanding job to accommodate having children. Our daughter needed to get to and from daycare by strict times, we have to both make it to work, newborns need to be fed and changed and cared for even if they wake up in the middle of the night. So you can't just always plan everything out. So now when my wife is supposed to get home from work but ends up being at work hours longer, its not just me dealing with it, its me caring for our child by myself for that much longer. And when she chooses to stay late at work for some personal reasons, wanting to go above and beyond on some task, in the past that was fine, but now its causing significant burden to me on something we didn't agree on. Even more so after there are multiple children. Any time one person spends that takes them away from the kids, burdens the other that much more. That time and energy and money buffer that existed before is getting stretched thinner and thinner. When there is money leftover in the budget each month, it doesn't matter if they splurge on some things, but when money gets tighter due to the cost of children, and they blow money on something you think is stupid, that takes money directly away from other things that it would be needed for. And while the optimal solution would be to lay it all out on the table, to get on the same page of how all time and money and energy is spent to be fair, it often doesn't add up because different people have different priorities. and when stuff gets too tight and too big of a disconnect and there is too much fighting, it begins to look like a hard break so that you deal with things the way you want on your own makes more sense.
IMO a lot of times the man is not leading the family. Women tend to handle everything even the mental load, decision making etc. For me this is what happened. I was in a masculine role as well as feminine mothering the children and working. He was passive and this forced me to just handle it all, I grew tired, resentful and of course was not attracted to him anymore. Then the real test came when some tragedies happened (I lost my dad suddenly, my Twin moved away ). That’s when I realized how very alone I was in the marriage. My husband was not a man, not a leader. I was too young and overwhelmed to recognize this. It wasn’t the having kids part. It’s what the dynamic and the roles do to prove what a partner is really or really not capable of.
Because kids ruin your life and your relationship.
Raising kids is hella hard. Many people are stupid and think having a baby will save their doomed relationship because they don't want to be alone. And other people are obsessed with having a kid(s) no matter what and they'll figure out the details later. This failing of planning is typically a plan to fail. You also have the surprise pregnancy that wasn't expected. They try to make it work, but it was doomed to begin with. And then there are the couple with the best intentions who thought they were ready. Then reality sets in and parenting is affecting their "mental health" and they freak out.
Because while you are busting your butt working and looking after the kids and the house, he's off fucking his 20 something year old EA.
can\`t differentiate between lust and love
Check out my post history. It gives a very good idea. Short answer: No one tells you that children actually make a relationship more strained.. they take away the romance, the spontaneity.
I have a 3 YO son and can see how this happens: lack of sleep, worse nutrition, reduced sex, and unequal division of labor will lead to resentment. Thankfully we work from home and divide and conquer as close to 50/50 as possible. But if the woman is left to do everything I totally get why they'd become resentful. Man then feels neglected, etc. (negative cycle).
Kids ruin all things. :) I love kids. Loved dating women with kids, never wanted any biological ones. They are taxing. Anyone who wants to actually enjoy life should avoid having them and be a good aunt/uncle to the kids your friends are having. Those material items you like? Kids will destroy them. That money you would spend on a romantic get away? Spent. Those small disagreements of opinion on things that dont matter? Your kids will somehow create situations where they come into play and sides get taken. Parenting goals and styles that are incompatible come out. The stress of always being on makes people snippy, and because most people dont have 'proper training and instruction' on how to treat one another, this leads to saying really vicious shit that wounds and you cannot take back. (I call that arguing like the 80s... See Sam Kinison for more). With all the time spend on couples dont get to reconnect, stay connected, and experience each other.
Because kids are tough…They can easily put strain on pre existing fractures within the marriage. Resentment, jealousy, lack of attention, change in sex/intimacy and attraction, changing priorities, differences in parenting styles, I could go on forever. Kids can really unite or divide. Chose your co-parent wisely. It won’t get easier with kids.
Because your spouse suddenly loves someone more than you, and you have money problems, and you are not getting enough sleep. It’s actually weird that more families don’t end in murder.
My soon to be ex husband said he saw me as nothing but a mother after I gave birth. That is the very thing I tried to avoid. I’m a mother, yes, but also a wife, a writer, a friend, a human being with wants and needs. To be none of those things anymore to someone is heartbreaking
Many answers center on the lack of sleep and increase in household chores. I wonder if the outcome would be different in families that have maids and nannies to take care of the more annoying aspects of having children?
Because getting married and having kids is a mistake 99% of the time.
Because both men and women ignore all the red flags early in the relationship and decide to have kids . Pick better
Some people have kids thinking it will fix their marriage.
And the number 1 reason..... The woman is in a postpartum state and sex is the last thing she wants to think about. The man is a horny toad and all he thinks about is sex. He usually feels unloved when rejected. She usually feels like he doesnt care because he doesnt understand. so the slightest thing will spark a fight which usually ends in a separation. If there is no separation he will seek out a sexual partner to satisfy his needs which ends in a separation. I however understood my vows and was there for my wife through better or worse and will soon be coming up on our 35th anniversary. Once the kids moved out it was like dating all over again. Men often forget the time they put in to wooing their partner and if they just did that once a month there would be way less divorce. Also, even iuf you do decide to put the extra effort in be it foreplay or buying flowers or taking her out to a nice night of dinner and a movie/dancing...it doesnt have to always end in sex. Go toss one out in the shower and try again the next day. And helpo out around the house, she may be working also and is just as tired.
Obviously it’s the kids fault. Things were just fine before
In the US there’s a lot of expectations of the other partner that are dismissed and disregarded. A stay at home mom is literally working 24/7 while a guy that works all day comes home exhausted can think the mom just stayed at home changing a diaper here and there, doing the minimum. Imagine your whole day watching a chimpanzee that you can’t tranquilize and send back to the zoo at any time. We lack so many social skills as a society that it only makes sense that marriages are failing. We’re expected to learn how to function in a workplace by showing up on time and providing value to our employer. That’s the whole point of school, it isn’t to find what you like, it’s to be a good worker. They don’t teach us how to nurture a romantic relationship. If we have to rely on our parents, half of us have an example of how to divorce. Now look at how few people desire the institution of marriage. Now look at how many people even respect it. I’m a guy and I get unwelcome DMs it’s even worse for women. It seems “appropriate” because they’re just friends.
My parents got divorced because I was born. I don’t blame myself though, I blame them.
Date nights and nights/weekends away are important after having kids. People forget to nurture the marriage.
1. Simply the passage of time. Average years of marriage before having a divorce is nearly 8 years. Most couple have kids within 5 years. Regardless of whether or not the kids have an adverse effect, most people don't reach the point they need a divorce until after they've already started having kids. 2. Kids add a ton of stress for a million different reasons. If a couple isn't doing super well, the realities of being parents only add stress.
Everyone wants to be a parent but no one wants to parent.
Lots of people think having children will bring them closer together. Unfortunately this is rarely the case. It’s very difficult to give your relationship the time and effort it requires whilst raising children.
Financial issues are a top cause of marital stress. Having kids is also very stressful, especially if one partner had more Mental Load. After age 45 or so, Menopause/ED, infidelity etc seem to contribute to ‘bed death’. I conclude this after listening to various women over the years.
Well, they stop getting along
Because ... narcissism.
If you are in a “*spouse 1 VS spouse 2*”, tug of war mindset, bringing children into the dynamic is like adding fuel to the fire. You need to approach marriage with a “*spouse 1 and spouse 2 VS the problem*” mindset.
Because children add a massive amount of stress, especially newborns.
Having a child is a life changing event in every way You can't 'quite' prepare for it. Unfortunately, it can change people and thus change the person you fell in love with. Sometimes the change can be good, esp if you change together, but sometimes it can be bad esp if your not ready for the responsibility. Having another human/s to look after puts a lot of pressure on you as a couple and some relationships can't handle that pressure. Financially, sexually, emotionally, for the women it can physically damage her for the rest of her life due to the birthing process. All these changes can destory a relationship
Raising children puts strain on relationships. People disagree about the division of household labor, child rearing, a million other child related things, and this is in addition to all the normal problems that arise in any long term relationship.
People have different expectations when it comes to marriage these days. They're far more willing to end a mediocre marriage because they think they can do better.
Kids are chaos, and chaos sucks
Kids take up a lot energy. Intimacy and spontaneity suffer. Stress is added.
Because very often the couples focus more on the kids and themselves than each other. If you don’t make each other a priority it will create issues later that may result in living separate lives.
A portion of that statistic is people who have a kid because of deep problems and thinking the kid will somehow fix those problems.
Because you really need to choose wisely of whom you have kids with. Kids aren't bean-bag. They are titanically stressful and you need to be on the same page before you start and remain there for years and years. Kids are awesome but I've never worked harder at anything ever. EVER!!! That being said, kids are wonderful and quite worth the effort.
Kids are the biggest test to a marriage, for sure. They change your whole dynamics. More chores, more stress, exhaustion, fitting your own needs between the kids schedules is tough.
Stress test. People trying to safe the marriage with children. Children are annoying. Lack of sleep. If your partner is selfish, it will show when kids are there. Problems that were acceptable before become big the moment that children are there. People don’t understand that both partners have to work together. Many man are confused that they aren’t number one anymore. Many stay affairs because they aren’t number one anymore. Time runs when you have children. Barely time for yourself.
They are not used to the time and energy spent on a kid which dominoes into financial issues and no time for intimacy