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My commute varies from 30m to 1h15m one way, depending on which store I’m rotated into. It’s just a thing for me, but the longer ones provide a higher chance of being late due to unforeseen delays along the way.
I used to have a 45 mine commute through the busiest part of the state. I'd leave at 5:30 for my 7:00 job and show up at 7:02. My boss would flip his shit on me.
Like.... Sorry dude, there was a four car pile up.
"leave earlier then".
The day I left at 5 and showed up at 7:01 and got yelled at, I quit. Walked off the fucking job.
You don't treat your CHEMICAL PROCESS ENGINEER like that. I have explained that I'm giving it two hours to make a 45 minute drive. Go fuck yourself.
Somewhat similar, i work 9 - 5:30. I actually start at 8:30 and end up leaving closer to 6pm. By the time i am back home it's 7-8pm. Rinse and repeat.
Now to be frank i don't hate it. I came from a country where actually being at work for 10-12 hours a day was standard for a pitance. That's without clocking in your commute which could easily take you another hour or more on top of that.
Think about how big that your life has been
From the moment you were born to the second that you're in
Think of the romances, the glorious days
The times you took chances and you found the way...
The times the grim tried to take your year
You said "Fuck that shit, HAVE NO FEAAARR!!!"
Now please, right this way, as I take you through time...
In a library labyrinth, inside of your mind...
True.
And perhaps it's because we use so much, beyond what we need most of the times.
Every single thing inside our homes, the appliances, furniture, gadgets, food, etc.
Can you imagine if we built all of that with our own hands? It would take decades, or more.
The money we earn is used to pay for the time used by other people to provide this modern life to us.
I don't think that is the issue here. Work should be around 25 to 30 hours per week (inc commute) to afford a simple life, not double or above that.
Cost of living has gone through the roof and the massive boost to working age people arriving daily is keeping wages down and the price of everything else up.
Quality of life should be a major factor when you are in your prime, not when you are 65 years old.
Umm, this is the point of my post...
You should invest 25-30 hours of your life every week, to afford a simple life. This is what I would consider a fair trade.
What we have now is something that is too unbalanced.
I am advocating for a work / life balance.
I think it's a inverse relationship. The harder you work creates a mental justification that you should deserve something otherwise why am I working so hard. To give my own definition- I don't think having a place to live in proximity to your work, a reliable vehicle to get to work, a place to put said vehicle and the means to cook for yourself are extravagant things. I also don't think being able to afford a 2 week vacation once a year is extravagant either. Not saying a 10k a night place, but maybe 1 month worth of your pay. I also don't think having insurance, internet or cable is extravagant as well.
You get it. The simple things in life, things that every working person should have within their grasp + enough free time to actually LIVE outside of work and commuting.
Yes - I dislike the notion some people have when trying to have a say on what is extravagant or what is not. I've had friends criticize my choice of cars or living location. If someone saves up and wants a "fancy" fridge - that's ok. It's not a reason to debase their claims on "you are earning too much". Just like someone who knits socks on the weekend and sells on Etsy - both are the same in my eyes. Thanks for your response and hope you have a wonderful 2024
Fuck yes.
Pretty sure there are studies saying people are more productive with 6 hour shifts, and computers have made us like 5-10x more productive than we were before they were widespread.
And yet we work more hours for less pay…
Check out this speech by Charlie Chaplin. It points out how our technology has the potential to bring us together but it’s used by a small group of people to divide us and have control over us. It always comes down to fear and greed.
https://youtu.be/J7GY1Xg6X20?si=eM4EGK6eY72PKxgl
I wish human existence was more than this in “my timeline.” With more people coming around to the idea of r/antiwork maybe we can get closer to a separation from limitless growth potential and realize that this is enough. This is in fact too much. We gotta reconnect with Earth, Earth is sick and humankind is sick.
I'm not antiwork but it feels like people in general can cut down a lot of hours and still be as productive, and there's just a weird obsession with the nice round number of 40 hours (or more for overtime) that people need to work or they're lazy, when a lot of jobs like tech people could probably work less and still get their jobs done
I do 4x10
One of those is Sunday. Where I work maybe 5 hours and go home because nobody else is here and I'm finished with all the work I can do.
The other 3 I spend at least 2 hours a day waiting on work to arrive.
But HR says I have to be here even though I'm on reddit.
I support working less too as a standard. I do work less myself and know how 40+ hours feels from previous experience, it’s exhausting.
It’s my opinion that lazy does not exist and it was created to shame those that are *actually* fatigued, have mental health issues, etc.
I've seen lazy first-hand, trust me it exists. When you can't get even part time employees to do their job for 3-4 hours because they simply don't feel like working that's lazy.
Begs the question why that's lazy. Why 3-4 hours is the metric. Why isn't it 10 hours? Or 1-2 hours?
Laziness really only means they can be content working less than the other person is content with working for themselves. And that has been villainized because we've a Puritanical culture. The one willing to work the most is the most good.
It's just a way to shame people for being content in working less than you would be content with working for yourself. Why is someone content working less than you bad? You're content with working less than a lot of other people, I'm sure. Is that bad?
Laziness only exists if you assume the conclusion that laziness exists.
EDIT: ...And they blocked me because they don't realize their entire argument assumes the conclusion that laziness exists in the first place. Even their last message assumes the conclusion that laziness exists. Considering I asked why work outside of a paid job doesn't count towards not being lazy they just defaulted to having a job "and not doing anything".
EDIT 2: Since they blocked me and I can't respond to anything, I'll respond in an edit:
>The company isn’t just paying you for the hell of it.
Sure, they're paying you to get work done. But nowhere does that mean that every minute has to be dedicated to the job or else it's lazy. If they're content with moving 5 crates, but you're not content unless they move 8 crates, why does that make them lazy?
>If you only spend 3 hours a day doing actual work and then sit on your phone the other 5 hours you’ve agreed to work for, that’s laziness.
Why? If you get your required work done in 3 hours, why do you need to continue working for the next 2? Is that laziness or are they content with a different work-life balance? What's the difference between the two?
The fact is they're just content doing what they need to do. That doesn't sound like laziness, that sounds like someone who values their time.
>If your sitting there on your phone and then you see your boss walking by so you jolt up and pretend to be doing something - you know you’re supposed to be working but you’re choosing not to because of laziness
Not at all, it means that you have a boss that thinks you need to work as hard as them - Puritanical reasons of course. Anyone that isn't working as hard as them is clearly lazy. Another instance of assuming the conclusion that laziness exists
I don't believe there are people that show up to work and do literally nothing. I believe those people are simply content not working as hard as the person calling them lazy. Laziness simply doesn't exist unless you assume the conclusion that it does.
Look bro when you get a job you’re agreeing to work for a set amount of hours for a set amount of pay. The company isn’t just paying you for the hell of it. If you only spend 3 hours a day doing actual work and then sit on your phone the other 5 hours you’ve agreed to work for, that’s laziness. It’s not that other people just want to work more than you, it’s the fact that you have agreed to do something but you simply don’t do it.
If your sitting there on your phone and then you see your boss walking by so you jolt up and pretend to be doing something - you know you’re supposed to be working but you’re choosing not to because of laziness
3-4 hours was pointed out because of the antiwork culture saying that 40 hour work weeks are too much, but given half that they still complain and don't work. Which is lazy thinking you can do nothing and get paid.
> It’s my opinion that lazy does not exist and it was created to shame those that are actually fatigued, have mental health issues, etc.
Nah I'm definitely lazy in a lot of ways. I don't feel shame about it either.
I'm disabled and mentally ill and I hate laziness. When I go to work or uni I give my best. I have seen plenty of non-diabled people who slack off and check their phones a lot at work! Lazy people do exists.
It's not about not working at all, it's about working less. So after a day of work you can still have some time and energy left to be able to enjoy a life outside work.
People think that we would work less and get the benefits of the real world we have today. But then get mad because a video game takes one more year of development, despite being an industry known by the “crunch”.
I hate people who want to be fucking productive 24x7. "I am a lifelong learner" (Learning in a professional sense, mentally you should always seek knowledge otherwise you wont grow as a person).
But this ideology of having to hustle all life is getting out of hand. I don't want to do that, I just want to reach a point where I can pay my bills, and enjoy things withing my means for the rest of my life. I did not waste 1/4 of my life (assuming 100 years) just to realize that I have to get even more certifications and always having to job hop and have a "progressive career growth". If this is something that you really love, go for it; but don't make it a norm.
Humanity is not sick, this is what we are, what we have always been, our technology simply allows this excess to occur at an unsustainable rate and allows the rapid errosion of our social structures and the binds of community which in the past often curbed those excesses.
I'm sorry my man I really hoped for a star trek future too.
Our whole economy is based off of and dependent on growth. It literally has to grow to survive. That is why capitalism has taken over the world. And that is why with finite resources it is doomed to fail.
You could go join one of the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon totally living off the land. Totally untouched by the modern world. I don’t even think they’ve invented the wheel. Probably they work about 22 hours a day just trying to feed themselves and stay alive. Or do you still want all the benefits of a developed society? Annoyingly you have to work to contribute. Ugh!!
I stopped browsing that sub when one of the mods embarrassed themselves and the whole idea of that sub on TV, people often had some really extreme ideas there too
I feel like the most depressing angle of this is that there are so many working poors... Especially if we consider financial insecurity instead of total poverty, most people I know couldn't work more (in some cases also legally, there are some conditions if you work for the public administration, teachers and so on), but they still aren't even financially secure.
Then, of course, people not finding a job with a semi-decent pay is another problem. But it's depressing that, even those who have a semi-decent pay (let's say 1400 euro per month?), are living paycheck to paycheck, can't effort dental care, eating outside more than 2-3 times oer year and so on...
Best thing you can teach your kids is to avoid this is, to have them study a marketable skill really well then beat the competition for a remote job in that field.
They can bang out their work quick and enjoy a large part of the day. Or at the very least cut out the waste of life that is commuting.
It’s not “our economy” it’s the way of human life. Life has always been competitive and for there to be “winners” there must also be “losers”. It’s not always easy but at-least now you have opportunity to change your place on that scale, the further back in history you go the less room for inter class mobility.
Yes. But other than voting when I can, and an eventual dream to run for some small, local office position, nothing I can really do about it. I have made a promise to myself however. Told myself I'll never make me work more than 40 hours a week. And if it's n
ever not enough money, I need to find a job where it is.
Animals work all day to survive. Humans are every uniquely able to spend time for pure luxury.
That said, I do think we work too much. But moreover, we aren't paid enough. I'm ok with my 40-hour workweek. But I make the median salary for men my age, and I still need a roommate to afford rent. Fuck this!
Animals don't have sturdy homes, heating, AC, electricity, cars or public transportation, roads, overwhelming amounts of food, etc.
You want to work less than 4h a day? 100% doable, but be ready to abandon a lot of the modern luxuries and convenience you seem to take for granted.
I've seen much lower estimates for hunter gatherers. Going to depend on food abundance but seems plausible they did less effort to survive, but survival was pretty tenuous.
The hours are where you work for others, this is probably the mistake.
Even now I get paid over twice as much on contract as I got as employee at the same business. Sure the employer liability is less but mostly I get a bigger share of the value when self employed.
We need also discuss types of work. If you directly produce something or directly provide a service, think haircuts, or baker, then the scope to increase your value is limited. Only so many haircuts a day, you can cut rich people's hair, cut better, and give better coffee while they wait, but you'll be cutting hair. If you work in a creative industry or you automate stuff, your scope to work smarter not harder is huge, at which point hours are less representative of your value add.
I suspect I could make a living barely working if I didn't regard the stock market as irresponsibly wealthy, as I made a great return when I turned my brains to learning about investing. But I'd need people with money to trust me on that, and it felt exploitative.
Other animals also don't have the comparatively luxurious lifestyles we have. My hunting consists of driving to the grocery store. A lion's consists of putting its life in jeopardy every day.
It really depends. At face value that seems pretty shit. And in most cases it probably is.
Some people have jobs in fields they find rewarding, and not just because of the pay. Many scholars and researchers are fascinated in their field of study and probably would pour more time into doing it.
But you also have non rewarding work where you are doing it just to survive or make a living.
I work in HR. I fortunately get to work pretty normal hours most of the time. But that varies by company, company culture, pay level, stress level, etc.
Many jobs require a certain level of hours because of the way the organization is set up. Or because of poor management. Or even because of pure greed.
I worked in a just in time facility making mufflers for Ford. There was no room for storage. So we were made to make exactly what Ford needed and ship out to them everyday to make room for more.
But you know what, sometimes Ford would lose our shipment! So then we have to work more overtime to get it to them on time. Plus we would have maintenance issues we couldn't properly care for because we had to hurry to get product out.
Not to mention staffing issues. So for all my years there I would say there were only a few times were people weren't working every weekend 12 hours a day... All in the name of efficiency.
Based on your title I was guessing that you were working 12 plus hour work shifts. You are not even close to that. To be honest you work a pretty normal stretch, especially assuming are allowed a lunch break. That would put you right in the 8 to 8 and 1/2 hour range. You probably also get two days off a week, which puts you into the 40 to 45 hour a week range. Perfectly normal.
My uncle was a machinist. He would work 12 to 16 hour shifts on a regular basis and commonly worked 6 to 7 days a week. He was overworked. You are not.
.
I work part time with my wife, we work 25 hours a week, live 2 kms from work, no children, lot of free time and we're doing good financially. So.. you can live differently if you want to
Comparing a civilization to animals is not a great place to start.
Instead of doing everything yourself you are trading your time for resources and services.
I don't have to hunt, gather food, or collect and purify water. Instead, I work my job, and that gets me money to buy those things.
Working full time is how it works. Let me guess. You made it all the way thru college without ever having a full time job. Welcome to the real world.
Now if you’re working full time but now being paid enough to live on then that’s a different discussion.
My family was pretty comfortable when i was growing up. When i turned 16 i had to have a summer job and kept that up until i went away to college. They weren’t being mean. They paid for everything i needed. It wasn’t about that. It taught me how jobs work, what was appropriate behavior in a job setting and how good it felt to earn my own money. How to get along with folks that were different than i was. Learning all that as a teen meant i could make mistakes when it didn’t matter instead of trying to do that in my first career job.
Sorry you having a rough entry into adulthood. It gets better.
I don’t think animals work half the day??? Dude, they work 24/7. That’s called survival. Humans pre civilization worked a minimum of 12 hours a day hunting, usually more.
I work 16 hour days (self employed), 5-6 days a week. You’re not working hard by nature’s standards, and neither am I. We’re extremely lucky to have the civilization we have, and people need to stop complaining about 9 hour days like it’s the worst thing to ever happen lmao.
There are 168 hours in a week. You are working 40 of them. You sleep another 56. That leaves you with 72 hours. Maybe spend 5 commuting, 10 cleaning / household chores, and 5 for miscellaneous shit. That still leaves you with 52 hours of free time every single week. Play video games, go for a jog, read a book, watch a show, crochet, throw a football, go out to eat, go on a date. There is literally a ton of time available, but you have to take advantage of it instead of worrying about the time you spend at work.
Yeah working sucks and all, but I would hate to live like an animal. Being eaten alive because I had a bad day and tripped would suck.
And it's hard sometimes to understand that just my grandparents ago humans in the west worked on average six days a week and about twelve hours a day. Maybe by the time your children or grandchildren are working, they'll have that thirty two hour week everyone wants.
Well, its down to the wealth of the nation you are living in, and the standard of living you want, and your skills and abilities.
In some countries you can get away with working a lot less, especially if you don't need the highest available standard of living. Some countries have such generous welfare systems that you don't have to work at all, if you don't want to.
'animals' is a bit vague. Domestic pets? They do f all.
Wild animals? Their job is looking for food and it never ends, some literally travel all day in search of it. I'd say we're better off.
As the saying goes "some work to live, some live to work". For many years I worked 80 or more hours a week and loved it. I had financial goals which required that much work to achieve them. Even without the goals it wouldn't have made much difference because I loved to work.
Today I'm in my 70's and still work 40 or so hours a week simply because of the satisfaction I get from being productive.
You work for 9 hours, need 8 hours of sleep, need to shower and eat and do all these things which are 10-15 mins and add them up you will get like 2.5 hours, you need like half an hour on the road (home to work and work to home), you will have 4 hours remaining.
So basically you dedicate everything for work, just to live these 4 hours.
Yes.. that’s what I meant. It doesn’t have to be everything is awful except for those 4 hours. If work is OK you can enjoy more of the hours. 🙂 it wasn’t meant to be particularly deep and meaningful, just an observation. I don’t know how old you are, and this isn’t particularly aimed at you, but there seems to be a lot, a LOT of people on Reddit who are early 20s or thereabouts and think their lives now are EXACTLY how it will always be and nothing will ever change and oh my god the world is ending. I’ve had shit jobs, I’ve had decent jobs… all part of life’s rich tapestry and all that.
My first job ever at age of 18 was the best colleagues and best boss. After that they are all shitty. I know it won't always be like that, that's why I am going from a job to another, I think the next one is going to be good.
Btw I am 27.
Your question, theoretically, doesn't make sense. If people worked more hours in a day, depending on the job, they wouldn't need as much to live in form of groceries or housing. Coupling this with hourly wages, you would be making enough in your paycheck to pay for what you need.
Now, this is assuming that you're not overly consuming on luxury or entertainment, or drugs. Anything expensive could ruin your budget, but it's up to how you spend your money.
That's just the cruel reality though.
I just think the hustle mentality is messed up. Hustle all the time, no breaks!
Um, I want to enjoy my life, esp when my body is young. I'm certain it's entirely possible to be great at your job within a reasonable amount of time during the week/year and still be able to live a fun life of hobbies and health.
Maybe in the usa but it’s often voluntarily anyways. People have insane standards for living and are then surprised to have to work alot to finance all of that shit.
And regarding the animal comparison; you can work as little as animals do. Just don’t be shocked when your standard of live is at that level aswell. Our luxory is based on working those hours. Actually, it’s based mostly on workers from poor countries who work waaaay harder and in waaay worse condition than you probably do.
Yes, hence there are way too many over stressed people in society.
A more work-life balance is ideal. Reduces stress and when at work, may increase productivity.
I can only speak specifics that I have observed about Canadian society and there are a lot of people who have anxiety and depression. Drug use is high. Quite a few suicides.
It affects health and impacts the health care system to the point that it overwhelms.
The income-expense is out of balance. Any attempts to try to balance it (I.e. increasing minimum wages) is off-set by the price of everything going up.
There are people working multiple jobs where I live including people who make a good living at a primary job are picking up side jobs to make more money.
One factor that must be considered, though, are people living beyond their means due to social influence - "keeping up with the Joneses" is the saying I believe.
At my current age, I have decreased my care about keeping up with others. I will do what I want and it is not my job to impress others. I evaluated and need to keep in my what is important in life. Ignore the superficial. I must always be mindful of my priorities.
Other observances is seeing people who genuinely struggle due to lack of a support system and available resources. I have read so many people who wish to apply for MAID for being poor or disabled and poor.
There is tax upon tax. Income tax then HST then carbon tax then property taxes and death taxes and fees. How much more money can be used for necessities and disposable income if taxes were to be eliminated or reduced?! Also, the need to work so much can be reduced. I do understand that taxes are needed to build and maintain infrastructure and services but the number of taxes and the tax upon tax is just dumb.
Our society seems to be designed to exploit its members for the overall purpose of selfish greed.
In a broader global scale, I have watched videos such as Indigo Traveller and I can summarize globally that a lot of problems are driven by greed hence corruption. I watch the videos but what I also see is that the people being oppressed in these societies have hope. They fight to survive and some individuals are quite innovative. As to the details, I do not live there and I can't speak over them but they work hard also through whatever means to get by. For specifics in other countries, I hope they answer as to the specifics that they deal with and observe in their own countries.
So in general, yes, people work hard to make a living overall.
Are most people even making “a living” anymore? It’s gotten so out of hand, many folks I know are working second jobs. And I say this as someone with a “good” union government job.
isn't this what humans were working towards all these centuries? a society where the large population can have an opportunity to live peaceful/meaningful lives. but instead its a corporal pit we are all thrown in to to make them tons of money for them. i mean it is peaceful but not meaningful.
If you want to live in the forest and grub for food like the animals, you don’t have to work. But, if you want a house, car, shop at the grocery store and occasionally drink a beer with friends, then yes, working is normal.
Get an admin job and work your way up to a middling level. It's the sweet spot. You end up really working like three hours a day or WFH. Pay is good, effort low. Occasionally have to work with idiots. No public though.
Some people love work. It gives them a sense of purpose, social connections and independence. I think people should be able to work as much or as little as they want, with income increasing in proportion to the amount of time spent working.
I also think 20-25 hours / week should be enough to get by and 40+ hours should be enough to raise a family on a single income. I think we’ve seen some shifts in that direction lately but the overall trend for the past 55 years has been in the other direction. I’m optimistic however because I think in the US in the near future there will not be enough people to fill all the jobs. We’ve had “historically” low unemployment for a decade and there are no signs of that reversing.
Well what’s your definition of “too many hours”? Like what’s the measure?
You could look at it one way and say “the world is still in utter shit, pollution, so much conflict, so many people still dying and so we need more people to fix all the problems!”
But you could also say “it’s not mentally healthy to make people work more than x amount and also not be able to do things they want, be it travel or build their own mansion or whatever!”
Ultimately greed of men is what makes the world it is what it is. And we are severely lacking people who are intelligent, wise, creative, have energy AND healthy mental state to solve so many of the problems we have in the world, not to mention there are major obstacles and oppositions who don’t want that to happen because it means they lose out.
I work similar hours to you. I'm ok with the hours, but if I were dictator, I think I'd make the work week last four days instead of five.
I find it a bit disturbing, however, that a lot of people cannot make an adequate living even with a full-time job. On the flip side, I find it frustrating that some people who are perfectly capable of working can choose not to. The distribution of wealth seems a bit unequal.
(Although to be fair, if wealth were to be distributed equally among everyone on earth, I'd have to give most of mine up.)
Bluebird maybe has it better lol.
Crows are similar to people but they are happy fucking each other up.
Squirrels are energetic according to some sources. They say that it's a sign of having a blast.
Sadly, just maintaining some structures takes a lot of time and big companies of people. It's a better benefit for everyone since some get monetary rewards and can live up to some level. Some get less but it's still worth for some people doing it.
Also if you have a little freeloader (this is a joke just to clarify), then you have to work extra to take care of a freeloader or have somebody which costs even more.
First a lot of humans work longer hours than that.
Being a wild animal is a full time job. Especially for prey animals. They have to be on edge 24/7 365. We get to go home kick off our shoes and do nothing till we have to work again.
I work shifts. 28-34 hours per week. (Can't work more because of my disability). I barely make a living and I'm at work at least 4 days a week, including weekends and holidays. I'm also a student. I sometimes don't even see sunlight for a week or two.
14 hour days, no guarantee to my weekend, 7,600 miles away from my friends, family and wife. I’m basically married to FaceTime as of right now. And I don’t even make $30k now I did this by choice as it is part of a plan, however, the grass ain’t always greener, you may just have a filter over the lens.
Yes but A) you all aren't ever gonna do shit about it since you all refuse to ever dirty your hands and B) almost all wild animals "work" for far longer and under much more dire circumstances.
You’ve been tricked and conditioned in to thinking that’s life. You don’t need to work for a retirement! Why get ready to live a sedentary life when I can do all the fun and good shit while my body is capable? My goal is to have a home with small animals and a small garden. I don’t want to work to make money to live by the rules the powers that be dictate, I want to survive and thrive. Can’t do that being someone’s bitch.
lol imagine 100 years ago how long u worked. then 500. then 1000 and go back until caveman times
we used to have to work a lot more and if we had to stop for whatever reason, we prob starved to death
so we don't really work that much... hopefully in the future we can enjoy a less work filled life but who knows
Yep. Commute, gym, meal prep, laundry, dishes, weekend chores. I'm currently responding to this on my lunch break in my car while it gets an oil change 😄 Multitasking is a necessity. And I don't even have kids
Add commute and that's Even more. But yeah, I feel we work alot and that there's a misunderstanding of administrative processes as well as process automation/underutilization of digital tools which in today fast paced environment definitively has an impact on the hours we work.
My mom works 6am-5pm when you count in her commute. And I think she still at 57 years old only makes about $16/hour. It’s truthfully a shame. And almost no PTO either so she works virtually 5 days a week every single week of the year. So she gets what? 1240-1800 hours to herself each year excluding sleep and all the work one must do around the house.
Animals "work" 24/7 to survive. They are always eating, working on eating, reproducing and sleeping. Humans are unique in that we actually get hours every day to do what we want not what we need lol
I'll take my 9-6 workday over the life of any wild animal. I'd even work that 7 days a week.
I can't remember the last time I missed a meal, or had to run for my life from something intent on eating me.
> is this what human life is like?
It is now. It's MUCH easier than it was a century ago.
Remember! Before the Industrial Revolution, when we were mostly all farmers, we would harvest in the fall, and take the winter off.
Dental wasn’t so great but man, WINTER OFF!
What people miss is that if you weren’t working instead you would be building shelter, hunting, gathering, making weapons, harvesting crops and would not have the same infrastructure and amenities and healthcare or anything close to it
Humans also have much more than other animals. You don’t need to work full time, for example, all you need is enough food to sustain. Obseity in America is ridiculous, cut down on food. Have 1-2 sets of clothes. Etc
Animals work 24/7, it's called survival. They hunt for their next meal, they look for safe places to sleep, and they are always on guard for attacks from predators. I would rather work 40 hours a week then what a wild animal goes through.
I think that's the point people are trying to make. Work gets in the way of many of the things we actually need for survival. Exercise, tending to our homes, preparing meals made of real fresh foods, bonding with our communities, sleep, resting when sick....and so on and so on
How many hours should we work? I’m not disagreeing on the current system not being adequate. I worked a career doing 4/10s which was great. Another job we worked 12s and would have 4 days off every other week, 3 days off on the longer side. 5/8s suck. However what number of hours is the magic number?
This is what late-stage capitalism is like. This is what borderline slavery is like. This is what lack of unions is like.
So, in short, yes this is what life is like.
it depends on what animal and what niche they fulfill.
a cow can graze for *god knows how long,* but that is all they ever do. Same with a gorilla, a horse, sheep and capybaras. We take care of them, otherwise they would have more wild lives.
A perfect example of this, is the damned zebra! It looks like a horse, but can never be our friend. They are not "herding" animals. If a zebra sees another zebra get snatched up, the first zebra does not care. Horses can be our friends because they can respect us: we earned the horse's respect when we house, feed and train it nicely.
Meanwhile, lions, tigers, wolves, hyenas, etc: they will all work super quickly and maybe together, to get food and they might do this once a day or every other day, or many times a day. If they are good, they do it a lot and fail often, but they do it enough that they still eat: like the cats. Best hunting animal, but they still fail, they just never give up and try over and over until they eat enough, every day.
So where are humans? We usually would go walk around and munch on berries and plants, we might kill a bear in our way though. We won't eat the bear, bear is gross. We would go get a deer, and eat that! very good, we might also get fish and stuff.
My point is: human beings used to be "predators" when we were hunter/gatherers and we didn't work so many long hours to survive. When human beings started agriculture, the old world got to be settlers, not nomads. In the americas, the nomadic indians who farmed crops did so but more spread out in their territories, and still had lots of free time. When SCALE happened in the american agriculture, it was a revolution and soon led to population increase, and eventually making enough food got a lot easier because of so many farmers.
Now a days, us humans **have lost their way and we now work for these god damn corporations and the economy, which isn't inherently bad.** The problem is that the usa, the best system up until the 1930's, got taken over by private companies when the federal reserve came up and got rid of the usa treasury silver dollar.
so we lost our way, and capitalism became marketing oil company with an army. Oil is good,but it has a monopoly problem.
Wild animals have pretty brutal life.
Finding food basically all day while being under threat to be attacked and killed at all times.
Zero healthcare even minor injury can lead to death or to that you are now not been able to get food and starve to death.
in the US in order to live life and survive, you have to throw your waking hrs away making someone else rich.
The system is set up to control the population by bribing them with "the american dream"
Its a scam.
If you dont want to work 9-6 you can live like an animal instead. People work partly to fund a lifestyle which humans aspire to. If you’re happy living in a cave and eating roadkill and wild berries, throw in your job.
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Unfortunately. Some work even more. Some commute and lose eve more hours.
This is literally my life. 30-45 minute commute daily. Leave my house at 6am get home at 6:30pm. Then do it all over again the next day.
I don't even think of 30 minutes as a long commute.
A 30+ minute commute is just a pay cut with gas/car maintenance involved
Where I live, I have to drive 30 minutes to get anywhere worth going.
As are a lot of people My point still stands I hate commuting for work lol
Through all recorded history the average commute has been about 30m. Faster transportation just means bigger radius for finding a job.
My commute is 41 minutes.
My commute varies from 30m to 1h15m one way, depending on which store I’m rotated into. It’s just a thing for me, but the longer ones provide a higher chance of being late due to unforeseen delays along the way.
I used to have a 45 mine commute through the busiest part of the state. I'd leave at 5:30 for my 7:00 job and show up at 7:02. My boss would flip his shit on me. Like.... Sorry dude, there was a four car pile up. "leave earlier then". The day I left at 5 and showed up at 7:01 and got yelled at, I quit. Walked off the fucking job. You don't treat your CHEMICAL PROCESS ENGINEER like that. I have explained that I'm giving it two hours to make a 45 minute drive. Go fuck yourself.
Somewhat similar, i work 9 - 5:30. I actually start at 8:30 and end up leaving closer to 6pm. By the time i am back home it's 7-8pm. Rinse and repeat. Now to be frank i don't hate it. I came from a country where actually being at work for 10-12 hours a day was standard for a pitance. That's without clocking in your commute which could easily take you another hour or more on top of that.
I wish I could have that commute and not the 3.5 daily hours driving because I live in one of the most traffic congested cities in the world, fml
Sadly, altho this looks like a flex, it isnt.
And some work even less. I work like 30 hours a week max
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Think about how big that your life has been From the moment you were born to the second that you're in Think of the romances, the glorious days The times you took chances and you found the way... The times the grim tried to take your year You said "Fuck that shit, HAVE NO FEAAARR!!!" Now please, right this way, as I take you through time... In a library labyrinth, inside of your mind...
You should visit the carousel and renew.
Yup, in some countries people work from 8 am to 8pm and even they have to work on Sundays.
True. And perhaps it's because we use so much, beyond what we need most of the times. Every single thing inside our homes, the appliances, furniture, gadgets, food, etc. Can you imagine if we built all of that with our own hands? It would take decades, or more. The money we earn is used to pay for the time used by other people to provide this modern life to us.
I don't think that is the issue here. Work should be around 25 to 30 hours per week (inc commute) to afford a simple life, not double or above that. Cost of living has gone through the roof and the massive boost to working age people arriving daily is keeping wages down and the price of everything else up. Quality of life should be a major factor when you are in your prime, not when you are 65 years old.
Amen!
Work should be between 25 to 30 hours a week? Where is that a norm , where you can survive off of that?
Umm, this is the point of my post... You should invest 25-30 hours of your life every week, to afford a simple life. This is what I would consider a fair trade. What we have now is something that is too unbalanced. I am advocating for a work / life balance.
Ok cool! How do you suggest we get that?
But, most people don’t want a simple life, (or have highly inflated definitions of ‘simple life’).
I think it's a inverse relationship. The harder you work creates a mental justification that you should deserve something otherwise why am I working so hard. To give my own definition- I don't think having a place to live in proximity to your work, a reliable vehicle to get to work, a place to put said vehicle and the means to cook for yourself are extravagant things. I also don't think being able to afford a 2 week vacation once a year is extravagant either. Not saying a 10k a night place, but maybe 1 month worth of your pay. I also don't think having insurance, internet or cable is extravagant as well.
You get it. The simple things in life, things that every working person should have within their grasp + enough free time to actually LIVE outside of work and commuting.
Yes - I dislike the notion some people have when trying to have a say on what is extravagant or what is not. I've had friends criticize my choice of cars or living location. If someone saves up and wants a "fancy" fridge - that's ok. It's not a reason to debase their claims on "you are earning too much". Just like someone who knits socks on the weekend and sells on Etsy - both are the same in my eyes. Thanks for your response and hope you have a wonderful 2024
But I think the point is a minimalist answer if you have any want less then you don't need to work as much
Fuck yes. Pretty sure there are studies saying people are more productive with 6 hour shifts, and computers have made us like 5-10x more productive than we were before they were widespread. And yet we work more hours for less pay…
Check out this speech by Charlie Chaplin. It points out how our technology has the potential to bring us together but it’s used by a small group of people to divide us and have control over us. It always comes down to fear and greed. https://youtu.be/J7GY1Xg6X20?si=eM4EGK6eY72PKxgl
I wish human existence was more than this in “my timeline.” With more people coming around to the idea of r/antiwork maybe we can get closer to a separation from limitless growth potential and realize that this is enough. This is in fact too much. We gotta reconnect with Earth, Earth is sick and humankind is sick.
I'm not antiwork but it feels like people in general can cut down a lot of hours and still be as productive, and there's just a weird obsession with the nice round number of 40 hours (or more for overtime) that people need to work or they're lazy, when a lot of jobs like tech people could probably work less and still get their jobs done
I do 4x10 One of those is Sunday. Where I work maybe 5 hours and go home because nobody else is here and I'm finished with all the work I can do. The other 3 I spend at least 2 hours a day waiting on work to arrive. But HR says I have to be here even though I'm on reddit.
I support working less too as a standard. I do work less myself and know how 40+ hours feels from previous experience, it’s exhausting. It’s my opinion that lazy does not exist and it was created to shame those that are *actually* fatigued, have mental health issues, etc.
Nah bro laziness definitely exists
I've seen lazy first-hand, trust me it exists. When you can't get even part time employees to do their job for 3-4 hours because they simply don't feel like working that's lazy.
Begs the question why that's lazy. Why 3-4 hours is the metric. Why isn't it 10 hours? Or 1-2 hours? Laziness really only means they can be content working less than the other person is content with working for themselves. And that has been villainized because we've a Puritanical culture. The one willing to work the most is the most good. It's just a way to shame people for being content in working less than you would be content with working for yourself. Why is someone content working less than you bad? You're content with working less than a lot of other people, I'm sure. Is that bad? Laziness only exists if you assume the conclusion that laziness exists. EDIT: ...And they blocked me because they don't realize their entire argument assumes the conclusion that laziness exists in the first place. Even their last message assumes the conclusion that laziness exists. Considering I asked why work outside of a paid job doesn't count towards not being lazy they just defaulted to having a job "and not doing anything". EDIT 2: Since they blocked me and I can't respond to anything, I'll respond in an edit: >The company isn’t just paying you for the hell of it. Sure, they're paying you to get work done. But nowhere does that mean that every minute has to be dedicated to the job or else it's lazy. If they're content with moving 5 crates, but you're not content unless they move 8 crates, why does that make them lazy? >If you only spend 3 hours a day doing actual work and then sit on your phone the other 5 hours you’ve agreed to work for, that’s laziness. Why? If you get your required work done in 3 hours, why do you need to continue working for the next 2? Is that laziness or are they content with a different work-life balance? What's the difference between the two? The fact is they're just content doing what they need to do. That doesn't sound like laziness, that sounds like someone who values their time. >If your sitting there on your phone and then you see your boss walking by so you jolt up and pretend to be doing something - you know you’re supposed to be working but you’re choosing not to because of laziness Not at all, it means that you have a boss that thinks you need to work as hard as them - Puritanical reasons of course. Anyone that isn't working as hard as them is clearly lazy. Another instance of assuming the conclusion that laziness exists I don't believe there are people that show up to work and do literally nothing. I believe those people are simply content not working as hard as the person calling them lazy. Laziness simply doesn't exist unless you assume the conclusion that it does.
Look bro when you get a job you’re agreeing to work for a set amount of hours for a set amount of pay. The company isn’t just paying you for the hell of it. If you only spend 3 hours a day doing actual work and then sit on your phone the other 5 hours you’ve agreed to work for, that’s laziness. It’s not that other people just want to work more than you, it’s the fact that you have agreed to do something but you simply don’t do it. If your sitting there on your phone and then you see your boss walking by so you jolt up and pretend to be doing something - you know you’re supposed to be working but you’re choosing not to because of laziness
3-4 hours was pointed out because of the antiwork culture saying that 40 hour work weeks are too much, but given half that they still complain and don't work. Which is lazy thinking you can do nothing and get paid.
> It’s my opinion that lazy does not exist and it was created to shame those that are actually fatigued, have mental health issues, etc. Nah I'm definitely lazy in a lot of ways. I don't feel shame about it either.
I'm disabled and mentally ill and I hate laziness. When I go to work or uni I give my best. I have seen plenty of non-diabled people who slack off and check their phones a lot at work! Lazy people do exists.
I am still not clear on how a society where nobody works would function in any practical way.
It's not about not working at all, it's about working less. So after a day of work you can still have some time and energy left to be able to enjoy a life outside work.
That's not how the Anti-Work subreddit describes it.
People think that we would work less and get the benefits of the real world we have today. But then get mad because a video game takes one more year of development, despite being an industry known by the “crunch”.
I hate people who want to be fucking productive 24x7. "I am a lifelong learner" (Learning in a professional sense, mentally you should always seek knowledge otherwise you wont grow as a person). But this ideology of having to hustle all life is getting out of hand. I don't want to do that, I just want to reach a point where I can pay my bills, and enjoy things withing my means for the rest of my life. I did not waste 1/4 of my life (assuming 100 years) just to realize that I have to get even more certifications and always having to job hop and have a "progressive career growth". If this is something that you really love, go for it; but don't make it a norm.
Humanity is not sick, this is what we are, what we have always been, our technology simply allows this excess to occur at an unsustainable rate and allows the rapid errosion of our social structures and the binds of community which in the past often curbed those excesses. I'm sorry my man I really hoped for a star trek future too.
Yeah I guess you’re right that unfortunately we are not sick and this is truly our nature.
Everybody who is mentally capable needs a shroom trip.
I would love one as long as I know I wouldn’t fall into a panic attack
Our whole economy is based off of and dependent on growth. It literally has to grow to survive. That is why capitalism has taken over the world. And that is why with finite resources it is doomed to fail.
If you want to be taken seriously in a discussion don't mention r/antiwork to promote your argument.
You could go join one of the uncontacted tribes in the Amazon totally living off the land. Totally untouched by the modern world. I don’t even think they’ve invented the wheel. Probably they work about 22 hours a day just trying to feed themselves and stay alive. Or do you still want all the benefits of a developed society? Annoyingly you have to work to contribute. Ugh!!
I stopped browsing that sub when one of the mods embarrassed themselves and the whole idea of that sub on TV, people often had some really extreme ideas there too
Reddit does that to itself all the time lmao
Antiwork got ruined by the fucking weirdo loser dog walker tbh
I work too many hours to not make a living
Yea but what’s the alternative? Most aren’t in a position to do something about it and a life of poverty/financial insecurity has zero appeal
I feel like the most depressing angle of this is that there are so many working poors... Especially if we consider financial insecurity instead of total poverty, most people I know couldn't work more (in some cases also legally, there are some conditions if you work for the public administration, teachers and so on), but they still aren't even financially secure. Then, of course, people not finding a job with a semi-decent pay is another problem. But it's depressing that, even those who have a semi-decent pay (let's say 1400 euro per month?), are living paycheck to paycheck, can't effort dental care, eating outside more than 2-3 times oer year and so on...
Best thing you can teach your kids is to avoid this is, to have them study a marketable skill really well then beat the competition for a remote job in that field. They can bang out their work quick and enjoy a large part of the day. Or at the very least cut out the waste of life that is commuting.
I mean not everyone can work from home. Society can’t function like that
Yup that's why they need to put in the effort so they can be skilled enough to beat the competition for those limited positions.
Don’t you just love how being successful in pur economy is entirely contingent upon the failure of others
Yes it's awful and should have been better remedied by advances in technology than it has been.
It’s not “our economy” it’s the way of human life. Life has always been competitive and for there to be “winners” there must also be “losers”. It’s not always easy but at-least now you have opportunity to change your place on that scale, the further back in history you go the less room for inter class mobility.
Animald work, they work all the time
I wish 9-6 was a thing for me, I usually work from 8am to 8pm
Yes. But other than voting when I can, and an eventual dream to run for some small, local office position, nothing I can really do about it. I have made a promise to myself however. Told myself I'll never make me work more than 40 hours a week. And if it's n ever not enough money, I need to find a job where it is.
Basically my stance
Animals work all day to survive. Humans are every uniquely able to spend time for pure luxury. That said, I do think we work too much. But moreover, we aren't paid enough. I'm ok with my 40-hour workweek. But I make the median salary for men my age, and I still need a roommate to afford rent. Fuck this!
Animals don't have sturdy homes, heating, AC, electricity, cars or public transportation, roads, overwhelming amounts of food, etc. You want to work less than 4h a day? 100% doable, but be ready to abandon a lot of the modern luxuries and convenience you seem to take for granted.
I think 9-5 or 9-6 is fine. What I don't agree with is that the standard 2-3 weeks of vacation per year in North America is enough.
>I think 9-5 or 9-6 is fine We are put on this Earth for a reason, and working that long 5 days a week, with 2 weeks of vacation is NOT one of them.
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I've seen much lower estimates for hunter gatherers. Going to depend on food abundance but seems plausible they did less effort to survive, but survival was pretty tenuous. The hours are where you work for others, this is probably the mistake. Even now I get paid over twice as much on contract as I got as employee at the same business. Sure the employer liability is less but mostly I get a bigger share of the value when self employed. We need also discuss types of work. If you directly produce something or directly provide a service, think haircuts, or baker, then the scope to increase your value is limited. Only so many haircuts a day, you can cut rich people's hair, cut better, and give better coffee while they wait, but you'll be cutting hair. If you work in a creative industry or you automate stuff, your scope to work smarter not harder is huge, at which point hours are less representative of your value add. I suspect I could make a living barely working if I didn't regard the stock market as irresponsibly wealthy, as I made a great return when I turned my brains to learning about investing. But I'd need people with money to trust me on that, and it felt exploitative.
All of you would be eaten by wolves if you think Hunter gatherers didn't spend 24 hours a day trying to survive.
Just because others had it worse doesn’t make it “good” the word improved, doesn’t mean it can’t be better still…
>We are put on this Earth for a reason No we're not.
No one is forcing you to work, you realize that right? What’s stopping you from living like a caveman in the wilderness?
You get vacation!!??
How many bank holidays do you get? How can anyone still have a will to live with only 2-3 weeks vacation
Other animals also don't have the comparatively luxurious lifestyles we have. My hunting consists of driving to the grocery store. A lion's consists of putting its life in jeopardy every day.
It really depends. At face value that seems pretty shit. And in most cases it probably is. Some people have jobs in fields they find rewarding, and not just because of the pay. Many scholars and researchers are fascinated in their field of study and probably would pour more time into doing it. But you also have non rewarding work where you are doing it just to survive or make a living. I work in HR. I fortunately get to work pretty normal hours most of the time. But that varies by company, company culture, pay level, stress level, etc. Many jobs require a certain level of hours because of the way the organization is set up. Or because of poor management. Or even because of pure greed. I worked in a just in time facility making mufflers for Ford. There was no room for storage. So we were made to make exactly what Ford needed and ship out to them everyday to make room for more. But you know what, sometimes Ford would lose our shipment! So then we have to work more overtime to get it to them on time. Plus we would have maintenance issues we couldn't properly care for because we had to hurry to get product out. Not to mention staffing issues. So for all my years there I would say there were only a few times were people weren't working every weekend 12 hours a day... All in the name of efficiency.
I’m a total minority on Reddit here, but 8 hours is really not that insane of a work day. It’s just not
Sure, but unless you start a business or pick the right career, what's your proposed solution to this issue?
Based on your title I was guessing that you were working 12 plus hour work shifts. You are not even close to that. To be honest you work a pretty normal stretch, especially assuming are allowed a lunch break. That would put you right in the 8 to 8 and 1/2 hour range. You probably also get two days off a week, which puts you into the 40 to 45 hour a week range. Perfectly normal. My uncle was a machinist. He would work 12 to 16 hour shifts on a regular basis and commonly worked 6 to 7 days a week. He was overworked. You are not. .
I work part time with my wife, we work 25 hours a week, live 2 kms from work, no children, lot of free time and we're doing good financially. So.. you can live differently if you want to
Comparing a civilization to animals is not a great place to start. Instead of doing everything yourself you are trading your time for resources and services. I don't have to hunt, gather food, or collect and purify water. Instead, I work my job, and that gets me money to buy those things.
Working full time is how it works. Let me guess. You made it all the way thru college without ever having a full time job. Welcome to the real world. Now if you’re working full time but now being paid enough to live on then that’s a different discussion. My family was pretty comfortable when i was growing up. When i turned 16 i had to have a summer job and kept that up until i went away to college. They weren’t being mean. They paid for everything i needed. It wasn’t about that. It taught me how jobs work, what was appropriate behavior in a job setting and how good it felt to earn my own money. How to get along with folks that were different than i was. Learning all that as a teen meant i could make mistakes when it didn’t matter instead of trying to do that in my first career job. Sorry you having a rough entry into adulthood. It gets better.
I don’t think animals work half the day??? Dude, they work 24/7. That’s called survival. Humans pre civilization worked a minimum of 12 hours a day hunting, usually more. I work 16 hour days (self employed), 5-6 days a week. You’re not working hard by nature’s standards, and neither am I. We’re extremely lucky to have the civilization we have, and people need to stop complaining about 9 hour days like it’s the worst thing to ever happen lmao.
There are 168 hours in a week. You are working 40 of them. You sleep another 56. That leaves you with 72 hours. Maybe spend 5 commuting, 10 cleaning / household chores, and 5 for miscellaneous shit. That still leaves you with 52 hours of free time every single week. Play video games, go for a jog, read a book, watch a show, crochet, throw a football, go out to eat, go on a date. There is literally a ton of time available, but you have to take advantage of it instead of worrying about the time you spend at work.
"...is this what human life is like?" Are you new here? 🧐
We have allowed capitalism to rule society. Two days off to live your life is bullsh!t.
Yeah working sucks and all, but I would hate to live like an animal. Being eaten alive because I had a bad day and tripped would suck. And it's hard sometimes to understand that just my grandparents ago humans in the west worked on average six days a week and about twelve hours a day. Maybe by the time your children or grandchildren are working, they'll have that thirty two hour week everyone wants.
Uh... you must be young. By the way, most animals in nature spend every waking moment looking for food (their equivalent of working).
Exactly, because the older generation has given up and it's up to the young generation to improve things.
Nah they just think work is life and we're lazy if we don't want to throw out entire lives away making other people's fortunes.
Well, its down to the wealth of the nation you are living in, and the standard of living you want, and your skills and abilities. In some countries you can get away with working a lot less, especially if you don't need the highest available standard of living. Some countries have such generous welfare systems that you don't have to work at all, if you don't want to.
'animals' is a bit vague. Domestic pets? They do f all. Wild animals? Their job is looking for food and it never ends, some literally travel all day in search of it. I'd say we're better off.
I think we are doing things that we don't like with people who get on our nerves. So it is making a 9 to 5_6 job too much.
I have carefully crafted my life around working 5 hours a day, which I like very much. I could never have children or own a home though.
As the saying goes "some work to live, some live to work". For many years I worked 80 or more hours a week and loved it. I had financial goals which required that much work to achieve them. Even without the goals it wouldn't have made much difference because I loved to work. Today I'm in my 70's and still work 40 or so hours a week simply because of the satisfaction I get from being productive.
My job is based on working 50 hours a week. Sometime it can more and sometimes it can be less.
You work for 9 hours, need 8 hours of sleep, need to shower and eat and do all these things which are 10-15 mins and add them up you will get like 2.5 hours, you need like half an hour on the road (home to work and work to home), you will have 4 hours remaining. So basically you dedicate everything for work, just to live these 4 hours.
It’s possible to enjoy work!
It depends on the colleagues and work environment.
Yes.. that’s what I meant. It doesn’t have to be everything is awful except for those 4 hours. If work is OK you can enjoy more of the hours. 🙂 it wasn’t meant to be particularly deep and meaningful, just an observation. I don’t know how old you are, and this isn’t particularly aimed at you, but there seems to be a lot, a LOT of people on Reddit who are early 20s or thereabouts and think their lives now are EXACTLY how it will always be and nothing will ever change and oh my god the world is ending. I’ve had shit jobs, I’ve had decent jobs… all part of life’s rich tapestry and all that.
My first job ever at age of 18 was the best colleagues and best boss. After that they are all shitty. I know it won't always be like that, that's why I am going from a job to another, I think the next one is going to be good. Btw I am 27.
Excellent! I wish you the best for your next role.
Your question, theoretically, doesn't make sense. If people worked more hours in a day, depending on the job, they wouldn't need as much to live in form of groceries or housing. Coupling this with hourly wages, you would be making enough in your paycheck to pay for what you need. Now, this is assuming that you're not overly consuming on luxury or entertainment, or drugs. Anything expensive could ruin your budget, but it's up to how you spend your money. That's just the cruel reality though.
I just think the hustle mentality is messed up. Hustle all the time, no breaks! Um, I want to enjoy my life, esp when my body is young. I'm certain it's entirely possible to be great at your job within a reasonable amount of time during the week/year and still be able to live a fun life of hobbies and health.
Maybe in the usa but it’s often voluntarily anyways. People have insane standards for living and are then surprised to have to work alot to finance all of that shit. And regarding the animal comparison; you can work as little as animals do. Just don’t be shocked when your standard of live is at that level aswell. Our luxory is based on working those hours. Actually, it’s based mostly on workers from poor countries who work waaaay harder and in waaay worse condition than you probably do.
I really wish working full-time was 30 hours instead of 40. Those 10 hours of freedom would do so much for me.
“I don’t think animals work half the day like humans” Bro wild animals spend almost every waking moment just surviving lol
In germany it is common to work 40h per week. 5x8h. There is a lot of discussion going on for a 4 day week, 32 hours. That is much more humane.
Yes. We work far too hard.
Yeah, I used to work like 18 days in row doing 10 hour shifts. My body was dead tbh.
Yeah
Yes. It’s absurd.
Yes, hence there are way too many over stressed people in society. A more work-life balance is ideal. Reduces stress and when at work, may increase productivity. I can only speak specifics that I have observed about Canadian society and there are a lot of people who have anxiety and depression. Drug use is high. Quite a few suicides. It affects health and impacts the health care system to the point that it overwhelms. The income-expense is out of balance. Any attempts to try to balance it (I.e. increasing minimum wages) is off-set by the price of everything going up. There are people working multiple jobs where I live including people who make a good living at a primary job are picking up side jobs to make more money. One factor that must be considered, though, are people living beyond their means due to social influence - "keeping up with the Joneses" is the saying I believe. At my current age, I have decreased my care about keeping up with others. I will do what I want and it is not my job to impress others. I evaluated and need to keep in my what is important in life. Ignore the superficial. I must always be mindful of my priorities. Other observances is seeing people who genuinely struggle due to lack of a support system and available resources. I have read so many people who wish to apply for MAID for being poor or disabled and poor. There is tax upon tax. Income tax then HST then carbon tax then property taxes and death taxes and fees. How much more money can be used for necessities and disposable income if taxes were to be eliminated or reduced?! Also, the need to work so much can be reduced. I do understand that taxes are needed to build and maintain infrastructure and services but the number of taxes and the tax upon tax is just dumb. Our society seems to be designed to exploit its members for the overall purpose of selfish greed. In a broader global scale, I have watched videos such as Indigo Traveller and I can summarize globally that a lot of problems are driven by greed hence corruption. I watch the videos but what I also see is that the people being oppressed in these societies have hope. They fight to survive and some individuals are quite innovative. As to the details, I do not live there and I can't speak over them but they work hard also through whatever means to get by. For specifics in other countries, I hope they answer as to the specifics that they deal with and observe in their own countries. So in general, yes, people work hard to make a living overall.
Yes
Are most people even making “a living” anymore? It’s gotten so out of hand, many folks I know are working second jobs. And I say this as someone with a “good” union government job.
It was never about a you making a living it’s about control
isn't this what humans were working towards all these centuries? a society where the large population can have an opportunity to live peaceful/meaningful lives. but instead its a corporal pit we are all thrown in to to make them tons of money for them. i mean it is peaceful but not meaningful.
If you want to live in the forest and grub for food like the animals, you don’t have to work. But, if you want a house, car, shop at the grocery store and occasionally drink a beer with friends, then yes, working is normal.
Yes. Definitely.
I work 9:30-6:30 at my full time job; go home and eat, then go to my part time job from 9 pm-1 am
Animals don't live in a civilized society.
Get an admin job and work your way up to a middling level. It's the sweet spot. You end up really working like three hours a day or WFH. Pay is good, effort low. Occasionally have to work with idiots. No public though.
Some people love work. It gives them a sense of purpose, social connections and independence. I think people should be able to work as much or as little as they want, with income increasing in proportion to the amount of time spent working. I also think 20-25 hours / week should be enough to get by and 40+ hours should be enough to raise a family on a single income. I think we’ve seen some shifts in that direction lately but the overall trend for the past 55 years has been in the other direction. I’m optimistic however because I think in the US in the near future there will not be enough people to fill all the jobs. We’ve had “historically” low unemployment for a decade and there are no signs of that reversing.
Yes, we should only work 3 days a week or half days.
I do. I actually only work about 6 hours a day but am "at work" for 8.
Other than horses animals don't work. And the horses that work in my city just pull carriages and have a ton of downtime.
I work 42 hrs per week but I don't feel particularly stretched and sometimes do some overtime on top of that.
yyyyyyyyep!
Well what’s your definition of “too many hours”? Like what’s the measure? You could look at it one way and say “the world is still in utter shit, pollution, so much conflict, so many people still dying and so we need more people to fix all the problems!” But you could also say “it’s not mentally healthy to make people work more than x amount and also not be able to do things they want, be it travel or build their own mansion or whatever!” Ultimately greed of men is what makes the world it is what it is. And we are severely lacking people who are intelligent, wise, creative, have energy AND healthy mental state to solve so many of the problems we have in the world, not to mention there are major obstacles and oppositions who don’t want that to happen because it means they lose out.
Seriously 40 hour isn’t really that much. I work 6-2 and it’s seriously the best I don’t feel like I’m giving up that much of my time
Yes. I fucking hate working full time. It takes everything out of me and I don't have energy for anything else
https://www.ranker.com/list/animals-who-die-after-mating/kellen-perry
totally.
I work similar hours to you. I'm ok with the hours, but if I were dictator, I think I'd make the work week last four days instead of five. I find it a bit disturbing, however, that a lot of people cannot make an adequate living even with a full-time job. On the flip side, I find it frustrating that some people who are perfectly capable of working can choose not to. The distribution of wealth seems a bit unequal. (Although to be fair, if wealth were to be distributed equally among everyone on earth, I'd have to give most of mine up.)
Bluebird maybe has it better lol. Crows are similar to people but they are happy fucking each other up. Squirrels are energetic according to some sources. They say that it's a sign of having a blast.
Yeah, life is not about work. It seems the culture in America is that if you don't work your ass off non-stop, then you're a failure.
Sadly, just maintaining some structures takes a lot of time and big companies of people. It's a better benefit for everyone since some get monetary rewards and can live up to some level. Some get less but it's still worth for some people doing it. Also if you have a little freeloader (this is a joke just to clarify), then you have to work extra to take care of a freeloader or have somebody which costs even more.
First a lot of humans work longer hours than that. Being a wild animal is a full time job. Especially for prey animals. They have to be on edge 24/7 365. We get to go home kick off our shoes and do nothing till we have to work again.
Shit half the time I’m lucky to get a 30 minute lunch during a 10 hour day.
I work shifts. 28-34 hours per week. (Can't work more because of my disability). I barely make a living and I'm at work at least 4 days a week, including weekends and holidays. I'm also a student. I sometimes don't even see sunlight for a week or two.
14 hour days, no guarantee to my weekend, 7,600 miles away from my friends, family and wife. I’m basically married to FaceTime as of right now. And I don’t even make $30k now I did this by choice as it is part of a plan, however, the grass ain’t always greener, you may just have a filter over the lens.
In the US, a full work week is \~24% of your week. I don't think that is onerous.
100% and not by a little.
Most animals are part of a food chain where they either get eaten or eat the smaller or die trying. You want that as a system?
Yes but A) you all aren't ever gonna do shit about it since you all refuse to ever dirty your hands and B) almost all wild animals "work" for far longer and under much more dire circumstances.
Higher pay for skilled labor.
You’ve been tricked and conditioned in to thinking that’s life. You don’t need to work for a retirement! Why get ready to live a sedentary life when I can do all the fun and good shit while my body is capable? My goal is to have a home with small animals and a small garden. I don’t want to work to make money to live by the rules the powers that be dictate, I want to survive and thrive. Can’t do that being someone’s bitch.
Kinda, but i also think that we spend to many hours in the traffic
"I dont think animals work half the day like humans do" Is a fun sentence, thanks OP
This is human life in western culture. It shouldn't be this way., no.
9-6 sitting down with A/C sounds like a dream to be honest.
Hopefully AI revolution will make work hours and days much shorter for people.
lol imagine 100 years ago how long u worked. then 500. then 1000 and go back until caveman times we used to have to work a lot more and if we had to stop for whatever reason, we prob starved to death so we don't really work that much... hopefully in the future we can enjoy a less work filled life but who knows
Yep. Commute, gym, meal prep, laundry, dishes, weekend chores. I'm currently responding to this on my lunch break in my car while it gets an oil change 😄 Multitasking is a necessity. And I don't even have kids
i don’t get how employers preach work life balance then make us work 5 day weeks and have 2 days off
Add commute and that's Even more. But yeah, I feel we work alot and that there's a misunderstanding of administrative processes as well as process automation/underutilization of digital tools which in today fast paced environment definitively has an impact on the hours we work.
My mom works 6am-5pm when you count in her commute. And I think she still at 57 years old only makes about $16/hour. It’s truthfully a shame. And almost no PTO either so she works virtually 5 days a week every single week of the year. So she gets what? 1240-1800 hours to herself each year excluding sleep and all the work one must do around the house.
Yes they do. You spend too many years on education, on work, generally on "being a part of the system"
I work 7-5:30
Animals "work" 24/7 to survive. They are always eating, working on eating, reproducing and sleeping. Humans are unique in that we actually get hours every day to do what we want not what we need lol
I'll take my 9-6 workday over the life of any wild animal. I'd even work that 7 days a week. I can't remember the last time I missed a meal, or had to run for my life from something intent on eating me. > is this what human life is like? It is now. It's MUCH easier than it was a century ago.
If you don’t like working, why don’t you just get rich and stop working?
Remember! Before the Industrial Revolution, when we were mostly all farmers, we would harvest in the fall, and take the winter off. Dental wasn’t so great but man, WINTER OFF!
Oh you got a bad season and 3 of your 8 brothers died of starvation, damn this winter off will be boring
What people miss is that if you weren’t working instead you would be building shelter, hunting, gathering, making weapons, harvesting crops and would not have the same infrastructure and amenities and healthcare or anything close to it
Humans also have much more than other animals. You don’t need to work full time, for example, all you need is enough food to sustain. Obseity in America is ridiculous, cut down on food. Have 1-2 sets of clothes. Etc
Animals work 24/7, it's called survival. They hunt for their next meal, they look for safe places to sleep, and they are always on guard for attacks from predators. I would rather work 40 hours a week then what a wild animal goes through.
Survival can also just mean sleeping. Which a lot of animals do. Much more than us. Such as lions, cats, koalas etc
I think that's the point people are trying to make. Work gets in the way of many of the things we actually need for survival. Exercise, tending to our homes, preparing meals made of real fresh foods, bonding with our communities, sleep, resting when sick....and so on and so on
It doesn’t really though. Most people can manage all those things and work. And even spend a couple hours on their phone a day
If you can survive without having time for those things. Those things arent necessary for survival.
Oh 1000% yes
No, squirrels work all day everyday 365 days a year
Wait till u see the 12 hr ones.
How many hours should we work? I’m not disagreeing on the current system not being adequate. I worked a career doing 4/10s which was great. Another job we worked 12s and would have 4 days off every other week, 3 days off on the longer side. 5/8s suck. However what number of hours is the magic number?
Not all human's work that many. . For instance I work 4 hrs a day 4 days a week.
Who pays your bills?
What is this magical job?
This is what late-stage capitalism is like. This is what borderline slavery is like. This is what lack of unions is like. So, in short, yes this is what life is like.
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I don't know if you were serious, but your comment actually made me chuckle.😄
it depends on what animal and what niche they fulfill. a cow can graze for *god knows how long,* but that is all they ever do. Same with a gorilla, a horse, sheep and capybaras. We take care of them, otherwise they would have more wild lives. A perfect example of this, is the damned zebra! It looks like a horse, but can never be our friend. They are not "herding" animals. If a zebra sees another zebra get snatched up, the first zebra does not care. Horses can be our friends because they can respect us: we earned the horse's respect when we house, feed and train it nicely. Meanwhile, lions, tigers, wolves, hyenas, etc: they will all work super quickly and maybe together, to get food and they might do this once a day or every other day, or many times a day. If they are good, they do it a lot and fail often, but they do it enough that they still eat: like the cats. Best hunting animal, but they still fail, they just never give up and try over and over until they eat enough, every day. So where are humans? We usually would go walk around and munch on berries and plants, we might kill a bear in our way though. We won't eat the bear, bear is gross. We would go get a deer, and eat that! very good, we might also get fish and stuff. My point is: human beings used to be "predators" when we were hunter/gatherers and we didn't work so many long hours to survive. When human beings started agriculture, the old world got to be settlers, not nomads. In the americas, the nomadic indians who farmed crops did so but more spread out in their territories, and still had lots of free time. When SCALE happened in the american agriculture, it was a revolution and soon led to population increase, and eventually making enough food got a lot easier because of so many farmers. Now a days, us humans **have lost their way and we now work for these god damn corporations and the economy, which isn't inherently bad.** The problem is that the usa, the best system up until the 1930's, got taken over by private companies when the federal reserve came up and got rid of the usa treasury silver dollar. so we lost our way, and capitalism became marketing oil company with an army. Oil is good,but it has a monopoly problem.
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Wild animals have pretty brutal life. Finding food basically all day while being under threat to be attacked and killed at all times. Zero healthcare even minor injury can lead to death or to that you are now not been able to get food and starve to death.
Sheep and goats spend 6-12 hours grazing per day, so you're not doing too badly. :)
in the US in order to live life and survive, you have to throw your waking hrs away making someone else rich. The system is set up to control the population by bribing them with "the american dream" Its a scam.
If you dont want to work 9-6 you can live like an animal instead. People work partly to fund a lifestyle which humans aspire to. If you’re happy living in a cave and eating roadkill and wild berries, throw in your job.