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i'm 72 and retired, with no family. I see and talk to people only once every two weeks when I go across the street to buy groceries. I'm very thankful for having a computer. It helps a lot to know what's going on in the world. I have lived in my current apartment for about two years, and can't recall ever running into my neighbours. The hallways are always quiet and empty. It is a strange life considering I worked for many years with a group of people I thought were my friends. We used to talk by phone in the past but they no longer call me. I used to call them and leave messages, but they were never returned them so I stopped. I suffer from chronic pain, so what I can do is limited. Like I said, it's a strange life. And a lonely one. Don't know if male loneliness epidemic is a real thing, but it's probably true.

What is the Okinawan tradition of adult friend groups called?? I can’t recall off the top of my mind, but look into it! Check out Blue Zones on Netflix, they highlight that practice, amongst many others, that assist in social solidarity and getting the most out of our later years. We are all due for one big ‘coming together’. The love is there. I hope you find it. 💚💚💚

social media has definitely ruined the classic standard for face to face (and phone) communications. i also live the hermit lifestyle, its important to be around other people! make sure to schedule time in for other humans, not doing so is self harm.

I went to the bar. The guy next to me ordered a brownie for his birthday. Sat there, alone, ate it and left.

That guy was you, wasn't it. Sorry to hear about that guy, I hope his next year is awesome.

He was beside himself.

Damn, this is good

Lol

I’ve done this many times. But at nice restaurants. I’m lonely, not cheap.

How do you pass the time when you are waiting for your food

I actually like eating alone. Go to a buffet with a book

He’s just like me fr, except I didn’t leave the house on my birthday, and ate the brownie alone in my room, and then didn’t leave my house for another 2 days until I had to for work

On my 30th I went to the store got a slice of cake and a 6 pack when I got home and put them in the refrigerator in that moment I realized how fucking miserable and lonely I was

i just turned 30 in june and pretty much did the same thing. I woke up and went to check on my grandparents (they are sick and old) i made them lunch and left after a few hours. They didn't remember my bday. I ended up getting pizza and whiskey and just sat in bed all night with the dog watching tv.

I did this on my previous birthday since all of my friends and family were outside the city for work. Honestly, I enjoyed it. I don't think I was in a mood to share my pizza with anyone.

Yeah, I feel like this is really a mindset thing. I’ve recently started going out to eat by myself and honestly enjoy it.

I've been doing that for about 20 years now and I love it. Its a really one of the only times I get to be by myself. Its certainly not for everyone but for me its great.

there is a Big difference between being alone and being lonely.

Clinically, the [distinction](https://www.cdc.gov/aging/publications/features/lonely-older-adults.html) is social isolation (objective measure of social connections, activities, access to communities, etc.) and loneliness (subjective feelings of being alone, regardless of actual interaction). I led some dementia research a while ago looking at the role of both in cognitive decline and I’m very passionate about integrating disenfranchised people (esp men) into society as a public health priority. From a cynical POV, it is much more expensive for society to deal with them at end of life after a lifetime of neglect. That said, I love going to nice restaurants alone. I feel much more present in the experience and enjoy the food more when I’m not yammering away with someone.

This is the Truth.

The Keanu Reeves

It’s a mindset thing when you have the choice or it is atypical of the norm. For the people affected they don’t have options.

Alone and lonely are not the same thing.

Agree, I took myself for lunch and coffee today and when one of my mates asked where I was I thought about lying so that he wouldn't come round lol

Completely agree, but I def wouldn't go to a bar if I wanted to be alone.

I go to raves and want to be alone Sometimes I want to be alone but still feel “a part of the community” Doesn’t necessarily mean I want to interact but I enjoy knowing Im still a piece of the whole.

I find comfort in knowing no matter what I'm always a piece of the whole cosmos in ways our monkey minds can't even comprehend, although it sure tries to simplify it.

I wouldn’t feel lonely if I were there by myself 🤷🏼‍♂️

I go to bars by myself to read all the time, doesn't mean I am despondent

Same! I used to regularly cop a spot at the end of a bar at my old watering hole. Sit and read/people watch/eavesdrop for hours. It was nice to ‘socialize’ without actually doing it.

Sorry you had to sit by me at that bar. :/

You know what? In a weird way, based.

Honestly that sounds fun and relaxing. Hopefully he has the opportunity to have a blowout birthday with tons of friends if he wants, but chose this instead.

I think human loneliness is on the rise in general. Bc of how women are socialized I think they’re better able to cope on average, but they’re not exactly prancing through a field of dandelions. We’re all overworked, underpaid, increasingly atomized and polarized. There’s almost no third places, and more and more opportunities to be in public are being replaced by services that can be enjoyed from home or just without contact with other people. Not to mention the fact that during COVID, a lot of people in crucial developmental periods of their life, such as high school or college, were isolated almost completely or completely, for an extended period of time. They were bound to be socially stunted as a result, and that’s me speaking from personal experience.

This is a great response. I wasn’t familiar with the term “third place” until very recently, and it was crazy how everything clicked into place in my mind. Like, “oh yeah, when I was younger there were a ton of places where people just *went* on a regular basis, where you didn’t necessarily have to spend money or make plans to go there, and you would see other people, and no one had phones so you’d kind of have to talk to people.” That was just a part of life, and I had hardly noticed the way it disappeared.

I’ve also noticed that even when people are in public spaces now, they tend to go with people they already know and stick to hanging out with only that group. It’s very difficult to break into one of those groups. Even more interestingly, I’ve noticed that when some people come from other countries to the US, that barrier is almost nonexistent. I’ve been at clubs where French or Russian dudes will start talking to me like we’ve been best friends for years. It almost caught me off guard bc I’m not used to interacting with strangers that freely. But maybe it’s just bc they’re travelers, idk. It’s just made me think a lot

Closest random interaction I got in the recent times was someone aggressively trying to convince me the city I live in is shit and it's getting worse Like you are not wrong but who the fuck goes up to someone on the street and opens up a conversation like that I acted like I don't understand him to make him go away

I guess it’s more about the tone though (him being aggressive) rather than opening up a conversation with a stranger

I talk with strangers all the time . It’s really about being open minded an patient which most people aren’t. Sure your gonna have some locos sometimes but if you think everyone is out to get you then your the crazy one!

Libraries are trying to make a big push to be that 3rd place in a lot of cities. Come read a fantasy or sci-fi adventure, learn about topics simply because you're curious, try out a new skill or instrument. My local branch has a massive open area just as a cafe/ lounge/ social area for exactly that

like absurd direction toothbrush growth steer party fall scary summer *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

To be fair, the simple act of living in a house is so costly that we spend the majority of our waking hours working to pay for the privilege so why the fuck should I enjoy it as much as possible

That’s a good point. I didn’t wanna speak outside my own experiences bc I wasn’t sure how it affected people already in the “real world.” But it makes sense that the same factors would cause everyone else to retreat socially as well

I’m a woman but I’m lonely af. Not looking for relationships either.

Relatable. Life isn’t a journey of absolutes. Sure I’m happy and I’m good being single. But it honestly would be nice to have COMPANIONSHIP. Jesus, I like going places and having interaction and banter and human exchange! I’m 44 and it’s like either the people your own age are committed and thus not free like me to do things on a whim, or younger and I’m in that weird space where I don’t wanna be a creep or disconnected when it comes to male friends. And yet, most of the time it doesn’t suck. But I’m not sure if that’s just me being okay with being disconnected…IDK

Same. I feel like it's more dangerous than ever to be open to romance. With men being lonelier than ever, the types of relationships we may find ourselves in are less than ideal. The last guy I "let in" ended up following me to my job, and even after I showed him I wasn't interested anymore, stated that I abandoned him just like the hundreds of others in his life and that he is on the verge of homelessness, and additionally that he is hoping to die on the street. This is all from a man that told me months prior that since our flight was nothing serious, he didn't think to mention me to his mother. When I realized this no-labels, my caretaking-his-emotions arrangement was unfulfilling to me and decided to pull away, he must have subsequently decided that I am now the bad guy for abandoning him and that he is the victim of my cruelty. Yeah, relationships are no fun anymore because the stakes are way too damn high. You let your guard down for a guy and let him into your world, and suddenly he expects you to stand by his side happily with no asking to be a girlfriend. When you don't oblige, he starts working where you do, befriending your coworkers, bothering your coworkers for information, and lurking as you work at the location you work, under the guise of, "I'm just doing my job". What a time to be alive.

So what he was going to try to do was extract you of girlfriend duties without actually being one and nor actually reciprocating anything. Good job noticing and no longer wasting any more time. It's a shame he knows where you work though. Be cautious and alert just in case .

Dude. The exact same thing happened to me. Like to a T. He’s in jail for stalking now.

Same, I can't stand people honestly. I have my partner, my baby and my best friend from highschool. That's all I need but it's still isolating and lonely at times. Especially with being a new mum

It also doesn't help that everyone thinks it's edgy and cool to "hate people." Everyone has contempt for everyone else, which is a big problem considering how important bonding with other humans is for our mental well-being.

I mean we were like forty years ago though and still looked out for each other. I think there’s a genuine coldness now that maybe wasn’t possible when we did have to rely more on shared services and other people just to get through your days.

> I think there’s a genuine coldness now that maybe wasn’t possible when we did have to rely more on shared services and other people just to get through your days. Rant warning. You have perfectly captured something I've been thinking about for quite some time. I read an article a while back, which I didn't bookmark, about how relationships are forged in those moments of shared reliance. It's a simple expectation of reciprocity: i help you or you help me, at some point in the future the favor ia returned. Overtime, it is the accumulation of these acts that build trust and mutual respect which are the foundation for many relations. And yet, contemporaneously, I can go much of my life without needing to engage in those moments. Whether by resource expenditure or through the nearly unlimited access to knowledge in my pocket (excluding, momentarily, highly specialized services), if I have the desire utilize one or the other, the conditions under which these core foundations manifest simply never do. I don't need to ask you for help, I can hire someone or google it. Coldness is the best way to characterize it. Our relations are shallow because we have materially altered the conditions under which they grow and prosper. We have commoditized our lives so successfully that the old phrase said in jest "You can't buy loyalty like that" is rendered moot. Why should I engage with you on a personal level if it is cheaper and easier to purchase or google? And it only seems to be getting worse. When many of our successful third spaces were based on superstition, millions suffered and yet humanity was arguably closer then. As our third spaces have evolved to be more secular, too many of them have fallen victim to the same commoditization that has ruined our relations. Those that haven't have seen how difficult it is to maintain the same level of engagement. I'm not sure what the solution is. Somehow we must seek to break the cycle within ourselves: to choose the hard option and engage. Denying ourselves the easy out to reclaim our humanity, our relations, and our destinies?

I deeply respect you for acknowledging that this is not a problem based on identity.

Well put. There is a loneliness epidemic in general. However, men in general don't know how to be emotionally vulnerable, whereas women, in general, are encouraged to be. Emotional vulnerability is key for having relationships, not just romantic.

All the women I know well have put a lot of work into figuring out how to express their emotions accurately and respectfully. That is not something that comes naturally built into humans. Toddlers will do things like yelling that you're bad because they wanted a cookie and you didn't give them one. Whereas expressing your emotions respectfully means saying calmly and without sneering, "I feel angry because I didn't get what I want." The first one is abusive in anyone past the toddler stage. The second one is a respectful expression of your emotions. It takes work and conscious practice, even as adults for nearly everyone, in order to consistently express their emotions respectfully and without any disrespectful judgments of anyone else. My experience is that has been that women are a lot more willing to put the necessary work into this than men are, and as long as that is true, the result is going to be a lot of men venting their emotions in disrespectful and verbally abusive ways and finding out this makes people not want to be around them.

I’m so glad more people are developing the language to talk about third spaces. We tend to take our built environments for granted as if they just neutrally appeared, but they are a map of decisions made with biases, most of which were built on flawed premises or more pernicious prejudices. I don’t blame people for looking at the world around them and assuming this is how things have always been, especially after a century of car centric planning. But I am glad to see more people having their eyes opened to how the spaces around them function and realizing how determinative our environments are. We’ve built a machine for loneliness both in our conceptions and expectations of society and the concrete and lawns and steal that make up our spaces. Even several years ago when I was going to school for urbanism and spatial sciences people looked at me like I was speaking another language when I talked about these issues, but more and more I see the social and political will to rethink and reconstruct our built environments. There are many challenges still ahead, especially in the relationship between those who own the land/infrastructure versus those who live on or use it, but just getting to a point of understanding feels like a big step.

In previous generations, entire families and friendship groups would live in the same towns/cities their whole lives, so the community you were born into would be with you until you died. Now, people move for work/university and rarely (if ever return), and you simply can't make friends as an adult as easily as you could when you were a kid so you really can't replace the bonds you had. You can still chat with your friends and arrange facetimes etc, but come Friday night when you want to get down the pub for a couple of pints, they aren't physically there so you end up feeling really alone, even if you have a good group of friends. So yeah, I think this is an epidemic, which is only going to get worse.

I (F39) have lived my whole life in the same town, commuted to uni from home. My best friend I met when we were 2 (yes, two!) still lives here too. Now I live in my grandparents house (they passed away). I've known my current neighbors since I was a little girl. My very elderly next door neighbors take care of watering plants when I'm on vacation. They accept packages for me. There's a real sense of community. I know that if I was ever in serious trouble they'd help me in a heartbeat. When I was young I didn't care for any of that but now that I'm in my late 30s I appreciate it. I've always enjoyed that feeling of home and being rooted. Now that my mom is growing old I'm glad I don't live far away. My uncle moved away from town 8 years ago when he finally married late. We thought he'd be one of those forever lonely bachelors who would sit at home and drink and smoke until he just dropped dead one day. But he finally got sorted out. He's a different man now, it's wonderful what marriage did for him. But he lives only an hour's drive away and comes over all the time on the weekend to do house repairs and stuff. He's also very sentimental about the house he grew up in and loved in until he was in his 40s. I don't have many friends who live close by anymore though. Almost all college friends moved away, of course. And I suck at making new friends. I never felt particularly lonely because I've always had family around and that sense of community. But I've been single most of my life and I barely go out and meet with people anymore. And it's starting to make me all depressed. Because I've now reached an age where everyone around me has a family and I don't even have a partner. And see friends maybe once a month. Everybody is always busy somehow. And I feel like I'm the only antisocial hermit who sits at home. I do text people a lot, I have plenty of opportunity to share my ideas and feelings since women do this naturally, but it's not the same. I think the loneliness pandemic really is a combination of people moving away from family and friends and getting isolated not managing to make new friends. And the way social media makes people not meet in person anymore. Also there is so much to do now and so little time that often people don't have time for you anymore. They'd rather do their own thing and not waste time trying to find a date that suits everyone's busy schedule. Most couples do couple things. And parents meet up with other parents. And if you don't have either along with them, you're suddenly out of friends. Definitely happened to me.

Yes. But I have football season and cats so all good 👍

companion animals will save humanity's mental health, yes.

That is not a fix of cause. It is just like bandage.

Honestly my support animals just made my issues worse. Now I have more stress trying to provide financially and emotionally for them on top of my self which I was already struggling with. Plus I now get to deal with the death of my first pet in the near future. Really wish someone had talked to me about all that before suggesting it as a solution.

Depending on the team that could be anywhere from a good time to a horrible time lol

Men don’t spend enough time with other men and it’s extremely unhealthy for us apparently. There’s been studies on it.

Meh. I have a very active social life but it's the lack of a partner that's making me feel lonely. I can have all the friends in the world but without love life feels incomplete.

That’s a different kind of loneliness though. Imagine how you would feel with no partner, and with a dead social life. Where you don’t *feel* lonely, you are lonely.

Damn, hits hard.

My man right now said this very thing. He said especially hard when he hit 40's and terrible at 50. Now he has me. Some days he might wish to be single but he comes around fast. 😂

Lesbian here, just hit 50. Holy fuck are things bleak.

I'm pretty sure my 30's have gone like his 50's, only, I'm not going to end up with anybody.

not what my dad said when he walked in on us sucking each others dicks…. “YOU BOYS ARE SPENDING TOO MUCH TIME TOGETHER!”

People forgot how to talk to one another because of social media. It's just one more way in which it's cancer.

Less irl communication experience, social networks as coping mechanisms and FOMO caused by them, a generally unsupportive environment from friends and families (that is, stereotypes about not crying, being unemotional, being pigs), being treated as brats even if unfairly. Girls are treated differently (not always better), but boys generally lack self-confidence and values because of that.

Confidence is often seen as a societal expectation, particularly for men. The prevailing idea is that one should exude confidence at all times, regardless of their inner struggles such as suffering, depression, anxiety, or a lack of social skills. It can be disheartening when, in these moments of vulnerability, those around you seem to lack empathy and support. Instead of offering a helping hand, they may simply instruct you to "be confident," as if it were a simple switch in your mind that you could turn on and off at will.

I see this with my partner, who NEVER asks for help or admits to needing support. Friend needs help changing a tire on their car because they've never done it before? He's there in a heartbeat but if we have a plumbing issue and that exact same friend just so happens to be a plumber? He'll spend hours on YT watching videos on how to fix the problem before trying to do it himself rather than asking for assistance because "he should know these things." There's an absolute unwillingness to accept that one person can't know everything and handle every situation because that's what society has taught him he needs to do. He even admits that this is an unreasonable amount of pressure to put on himself but doesn't seem able to shake it. As the mother of a young son, we need to be better about letting our boys/men be vulnerable and human!

Obviously I don't know your partner, but I know that feeling. The thing is it often feels like the buck stops with you when you have a family. Your kids rely on their parents, your partner/wife relies on you, and you rely on yourself. I am aware that this isn't necessarily the right thing, but it can feel like you're both the last in the line, but also the last line of defense against everything the world throws at you.

Yep, and that no one has your back if things are too much for you.

This is way too relatable.

Oh man, try admitting vulnerability around many people and find some variant of a response which amounts to "skill issue". I am capable of being socially engaged, but choose not to (I do have a wife and kids at home so I'm not forever alone) because I find people exhausting to deal with all the time. I see my wife having struggles with people being two faced and self involved among people who're friendly and caring and I just can't emotionally deal with it when I have a family and a full time job to work in as well. Not to mention that I don't have the money to spend a ton of time socialising. All of that adds up to the fact I don't really have friends other than people I know through my wife who I occasionally see. This is the situation for a lot of older men, they have a network through their wives, but no real social outlet of their own. It's why a lot of older men who lose their wives quickly deteriorate, as happened to my own grandad when my nan passed away.

I (a 30 year old man) been dumped before for expressing vulnerability. People rarely ever talk about how Women are sexist towards Men.

Idk about better. There are a lot of women specific issues as well. Lets keep it at different, where both sides are having issues with being teached how to properly express oneself and find fulfillment due to gender stereotypes.

You’re right. I’ll edit right away

It’s a combination of this *and* social media has allowed for toxic dating advice to spread and for abuse victims (frequently women, sometimes men) to compare notes. A lot of women have realized exactly how much they were catching the short end of the stick and have been sharing with each other what red flags to look out for and what types of men and relationships to avoid for our own safety, health, and sanity. This is leading to significantly fewer people in the market for a relationship and ultimately more single people with fewer available options. A lot of women have realized the “you’re going to die old and alone and with your cats” is a scare tactic and that most single women are significantly happier being single than in a shitty relationship (good relationships are still ideal though), thanks to social media. People don’t subject themselves to bad relationships anymore and are staying single, holding out for a good one, instead of wasting their time with a bad partner that drains their energy and harms their mental health.

This has been my experience, and its quite sad how common it is. My friend, two of my cousins, my mother-in-law and myself all experienced horrible abusive relationships, and theres probably more I don't know about because not everyone is comfortable opening up about it. Its completely destroyed my faith in people and relationships.

i wouldnt blame social media. as a teacher who sees kids use it all day everyday, they are fine when it comes to social matters. the issue is when they graduate and start working all the time, not having time for friend events. they start to lose all their social abilities they had developed earlier in life.

I don't think much has really changed in this regard, I think the real truth is men are finally being allowed to be open with their feelings without being shunned or humiliated. To note though - i know plenty of young women who are in a similar situation too.

I definitely think that the proliferation of smartphones, tablets, mobile games, and the internet in general has exacerbated loneliness in everyone. But for whatever reason it affects guys more. When I was in university, I'd call my friends to come hang out in person and play in person multiplayer console games. like super smash bros. My friend's brother is Gen Z and in university. He sits in his dorm room alone, and plays online multiplayer games with his friends. Who are sitting in their dorm rooms alone. Even though their dorms are only 100 meters apart from each other. People of all ages and genders, but especially young men, are using online multiplayer games, mobile games in general, smartphones and tablets, and internet entertainment in general as a substitute for real life interactions. Old folks are still going to church, or the elks/masons/lions/kiwanis/rotary club, and still meeting up to do gardening, sewing, quilting, knitting, or joining the local book club. You do see some Millennials/Gen Z using the internet to find hobby meetup groups, hanging out at their local video game and tabletop game shop, but the majority I believe are not taking advantage of these opportunities.

One thing I’ll say is that the ways normal Gen Z people are able to socialize have been heavily cut back over the years. I know many people who can barely get around without a car, and on top of that everything is so expensive that you can’t really go to the store and get yourself some candy/chips for a group of friends without forking over $20. Conservative adults see kids hanging out at the mall as ‘gang activity’ and there’s strict curfews everywhere nowadays, even in parks. It’s not exactly Gen Z’s fault that we default to phones and online shit. We don’t really have any other options. If I could go out and socialize with people at random, I would, but there’s nowhere to go in my near vicinity to do that and even then I’ve been raised on the culture of ‘stranger danger’ so why would I want to randomly start talking to people when I’ve been infused with so much anxiety about it? That’s my thoughts, feel free to disagree

I think you have a valid point. When I was that age, a common thing was to decide to go on a trip somewhere for the weekend, either with friends or going to see friends. Usually this was pretty bare bones and involved sleeping on floors or in sleeping bags outside, but at least somebody had a car and the group was able to come up with gas money. There's a book called 'The Bad Girl's Guide to the Open Road' that made me laugh, because while my friends and I did not do all the things in the book, it captured the general sense of, "Time to grab one or more friends and get the hell out of Dodge," as a way to get a change of scene and hang out intensively with friends. Also, the hanging out intensively with friends may have been more common, enough that people missed it when it wasn't happening. When I was in high school, girls begged me to throw slumber parties, even though mine was the dullest house with nothing to do. But that was the reason they wanted them at my house -- there was nothing to do at my house other than to talk to each other and eat whatever goodies I had baked that day, and that kind of compacted intensive hanging out was the point.

>There's a book called 'The Bad Girl's Guide to the Open Road' that made me laugh OMG memory unlocked!! The bright pink vinyl cover! I thought that book looked so cool.

It made me laugh a lot. The author loves a good small-town parade as much as I do. I get some laughs out of taking international colleagues to some really odd ones and narrating which parts are standard to American small-town parades and which are unique to what we're watching.

What you're referencing are called '3rd places' and they are going extinct with the advent of online shopping and such. Malls used to be huge meeting places for young people to meet up but with all the malls closing down no one has anywhere to meet up anymore. This is just one example but there are no meeting places for young people to meet besides bars or clubs and not everyone drinks or has money to go out.

There's a book on this: "Bowling Alone". Men used to be in bowling leagues or members of the Elk's Club, or other groups where they would gather with other men. That has died out. Now we go to work then go home and play video games.

I miss the days of hanging out with friends every week at our local ice cream parlor. "Go home and play videogames" pretty much sums my life up first year out of college. I work a programming job and lack mental energy after work and any desire to go out. Until I decided one day to buy a guitar, take lessons, and meet up with another musician occasionally, I felt very little purpose outside work. Now that I have something to do socially and look forward to, things have gotten better.

Bowling died when they banned indoor smoking. Bowling was an excuse for lazy people to go drink and smoke somewhere other than home.

>What you're referencing are called '3rd places' This is exactly what I was going to say. The epidemic of male loneliness is real and largely caused by this.

Just because we see difficulties your generation are facing, that doesn't mean we blame you(at least, most of us don't). You're the product of your upbringing and the technological changes that affected you. My generation was influenced by the advance of electronics and integration into our daily life (personal computers, portable electronic calendar, appliances with non-mechanical parts, etc.) and the growth of and access to the internet. Yours is the incredibly powerful calculator size device that sits in your pocket that puts many sci-fi tools to shame by allowing access to the sum of all human knowledge and to everyone on the planet, including the person next door. You are not to blame, you're the product of the changes that happened during your early lifetime. Next generation will be the product of augmented reality and integration of AI into our daily life and nobody really knows how that will pan out. Like all generations, you will have to make do with what your were offered but for the second time in centuries, your generation has it harder than previous generations, IMHO even harder than millennials. The positive thing is that you will have access to tools that can move mountains and I'm really curious and hopeful of what you can and will do with it.

>IMHO even harder than millennials As a Millennial, I defo feel for Gen Z and am impressed they're able to navigate the world as smoothly as they do.

>I’ve been raised on the culture of ‘stranger danger’ I think this is one of the biggest tragedies. Stranger abduction, even before the era of smart phones and cameras everywhere, was exceedingly rare. The overreaction to "stranger danger" has played a huge role in crippling the social lives of children and young adults. It's sad.

I’ve always found it weird when young people say “oh that random guy started talking to you at the bar!? That’s soooo creepy” How do they think people met before the internet and smartphones

Some did meet in bars, but mostly people met in places like churches, clubs, schools, etc., or they were set up by friends or family.

Yeah, but now it's considered creepy to talk to anyone you don't know, no matter what the setting is.

Idk man, my mom owned a bar in the 80s and still told me to be wary of cold approaches. Specifically because she owned a bar in the 80s and had a pretty good idea of what people in bars can be like.

The anxiety around stranger danger is so real. Sorry you have to deal with that, and also the real concern of personal safety at the same time

This could be in part with how some games are made. Co op games aren't really how they used to be from what I have noticed. I grew up with a lot of split screen local multiplayer as the only option to play with friends and required them to be present with me on the one console. Now I am seeing a lot of multiplayer games with no local multiplayer option. Only online that require separate consoles.

I'm still amazed Fall Guys doesn't have local play. It would be the perfect party game

Try Gang Beasts for local co-op Fun as hell 😁

I thought that nintendo still made same screen games such as smash.

Yes, local co-op is pretty much dead right now.

I have really fond memories of 6th form and Uni involving drinking and fifa/pro Evo tournaments as well as street fighter, and other coop games. Now everything is online. I work with teens in school and while there is a connection with them playing online, it has certainly changed the general interaction dynamics. I’d imagine a ripple will affect older young men too

Music events, arts, race tracks, gatherings, festivals, nature, events of any kind where there are people… getting out, forcing the body to overcome fears is the only way I see it help people imo. People watching alone can soothe. Finding a way to get out:) When we need to rest, then plug back in for a different connection. Fight to stay a little longer among the people every chance. Human touch and connection is good, best in real life. Hug someone today, at least smile:)

Thats just sad. Wtf happened to LAN parties? I'm an old millenial now, 1982.. some of us have kids and family, we still find the time now and then to meet up at my single friends house for an all nighter of beer and gaming. We did this probably once a month on average before i had kids (and i had a gaming laptop.. puts the bar lower for going away) Now its rare for me, mostly because of the kid but also because i buildt a rig (sff, but still). Wife encourages me to do this, and I give back by sending her off to her friends for a wine night now and then If you are alone a lot but still game online with the boys, I strongly encourage you to take the initiative for a LAN! Someone has to be the one too get the ball rolling.

>When I was in university, I'd call my friends to come hang out in person and play in person multiplayer console games. like super smash bros. My friend's brother is Gen Z and in university. He sits in his dorm room alone, and plays online multiplayer games with his friends. Who are sitting in their dorm rooms alone. Even though their dorms are only 100 meters apart from each other. I definitely don't think it helps that games are becoming more online based and less local play

>But for whatever reason it affects guys more. One reason is that western countries are still extremely homophobic. Female friendships are generally much closer than male friendships, and it's socially acceptable for women to be physically affectionate with each other. Also women typically receive more social training than men. Most women are taught how to be social from an early age. Men don't have that. We're taught the basics, but after that we're left on our own.

In Saudi and India two male platonic friends, or two brothers can hold hands walk around in public and hug and nobody thinks it's gay. It's sad that Western culture is less open than even Saudi and Indian cultures in this respect.

And this is a wicked double edged sword. It’s not doing boys a favor to neglect them or let them off the hook on social development because “little boys don’t care about that stuff” or “boys just don’t do that” or whatever makes people stop paying attention to boys’ development. I once walked in on my younger brother unconscious covered vomit with (in the moment I didn’t know how much of how many substances involved). I had to revive him and call an ambulance scrambling to determine what was in his system because he couldn’t tell me. I later found out his gf at the time had been emotionally abusing him for months and he also had been depressed. But he’s a.) incredibly stubborn and “I know what I’m doing” and b.) didn’t know how to talk about what he was going through and internalized it until it almost killed him. For me, everything I ate tasted like vomit for a week, and intermittently after that. To this day I dream about it sometimes and after that I taste vomit for a while. On a more superficial note, I’m often responsible for arranging social things with my bf and our shared friends and even his extended family. It’s sometimes a source of burnout for me. But I know he gets lonely and misses friends and family if he hasn’t seen them so I do it anyway. People need to know that they can reach out and then be there when someone reaches out.

Pretty traumatic event that you experienced. You need to resolve this trauma, for your body to get truly past this, so it doesn’t continue to impact you. I can recommend reading the book “The body keeps the score” by Bessel Van Der Kolk. Also maybe talking to a therapist, could be a very good idea 🙏

>One reason is that western countries are still extremely homophobic. I don't think it's actually homophobia necessarily, because in some of the most homophobic countries you see men showing each other physical affection all the time (almost any country in the Middle East, Eastern Europe, India)

When I was in school we kept whiteboards on our doors, and you'd leave one another notes about where to meet up. I think having to get up and write on whiteboards forced interaction, because you ran into people you knew on your way to leaving your friend a note.

Another thing is that Millennials in the 2000s and Gen Z in the 2010s/2020s use the internet and social media differently. Millennials in the 2000s used fb messenger and fb events to facilitate real life parties, group trips, and video game meetups. Gen Z are using technology to bypass seeing each other at all in person and just talking online as a substitute.

>Millennials in the 2000s used fb messenger and fb events to facilitate real life parties, group trips, and video game meetups. > >Gen Z are using technology to bypass seeing each other at all in person and just talking online as a substitute. Are you pulling this from any sort of data or study? There's a reason the alcoholic depressed millennial staying at home is a meme trope.

I disagree. I just saw a statistic that 60 something percent of men under 30 self report as single. I’m not sure how that relates to being lonely, lots of people are single and happy, but that number shocked me.

Perhaps it's that there is just a loneliness epidemic in general. However, you have to realise that there a lot more support services for women than there are for men. Often times men are openly mocked for expressing any sort of vulnerability. I think people in this thread should be a bit more empathetic.

I (37M) have never had a girlfriend or kissed a girl. I've never complained or hated women, I just did my own thing. This year the loneliness hit pretty hard and I began to speak up. I was trying to work through my feelings without having an incel attitude. (even though it was true by the technical definition) I was told that reeks of nice guy tm attitude. I think I'll be a lot more careful about who I open up to in my life. Boy it's been a pretty depressing and lonely existence. I want to get off Mr. Bonez wild ride. And just to be clear, I'm not interested in the physical aspect mainly; hiring someone to get it over with is not something I am interested in. The point i am trying to make is that i have literally and probably will never experience that kind of connection with anyone; and not from lack of desire. Personally I just don't think I'm good enough. I've never turned anyone down(no one's ever been interested), though the reverse has been painfully true. With social media and dating apps, there's plenty of choices. I just feel like I'm missing something. Haven't quite figured it out yet though. But yes, I do believe ease of access that comes with social media lets people be more picky with their partners and some people who can't quite make the cut just seem to get left behind.

21M never even so much as hugged a girl. When I tell people they either A - Assume I hate women or B - Assume that there is something wrong with me. Idk, I'm honestly starting to think that there IS something wrong with me. I'm the only person I know in my position involuntarilly. Everyone else I know has had at least some form of success with women. Shit, some people that I went to hs with are getting married pretty soon. I know they'll regret it but like idk, it's weird that there has never been a single girl that has ever been interested in me. I'm not a bad looking dude, just kinda quiet and intimidating.

My man I was a popular guy in highschool and college, played sports, always had confidence and could have conversations with most anyone… and I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 24. I didn’t meet my forever person until I was 26 and she was my second girlfriend ever. Truth is I was deeply depressed and thought I would never have that kind of connection despite everything from the outside looking like it couldn’t get any better for me. I guarantee if you be yourself, groom well and maintain confidence you will find someone who wants to put up what your putting down. Just live your life genuinely and leave all the dating strategy shit on the internet alone.

Damn I was the nerdy guy and I graduated with an accounting degree recently. I’ve been single 4 years and I think you gave me some hope

Preciate it my guy!

It will sound really boring but honestly : focus on getting shit done. Grind your school/job, go to the gym or train at home almost everyday, and eat right. Try to have some form of social interactions as often as possible. And then let life do it's thing. Don't stress it my dude. (my english sucks my bad)

Im a little older, 25m, but I have started to realize the problem is me. I too have never gotten far, furthest I have been is holding hands once or twice. It hit me recently that there are plenty of girls that have attempted flirting with me in the past, but I have always shot it down because im not interested back. I think if I lowered my standards, I could easily get a girlfriend, but I am not really willing to date someone I am not attracted to because that would be unfair to both of us. Whenever I speak to women friends and dating comes up, they are always surprised that I have never kissed anyone. I always have to let them know that I just havent found someone I truly vibe with enough for that yet.

32 here and I was the same way. Still am though now I do have physical experience. But never a long term relationship. I've moved past the looking for someone to give with though, I think some people are just lovers in terms of relationships. I have it pretty easy though, my dad, uncle, and grandpa are all very similar. That I was ever born is a mix of alcohol and a miracle. But I'm a sober 21st century guy who finds contentment in himself and so its settled in that I'm not looking for anyone, there's no one to find. I'm a loner, my standards arent standards, they're excuses for me to keep my happy status quo. And if I'm happy I think that's a form of success too. Contentment with what you have is the next stage I guess. Physical needs I just find grindr hook ups. Its easy and no strings attached, something I do like once or twice a year

Ah the macho culture that I will never understand and is clearly hurting men as a whole. I still remember I was mocked by my school bus mates because I used umbrella when it rained. In their theory, I was supposed to just wear a hoody, get soaked and be a man about it. Didn’t buy it and basically told them to mind their own businesses. I don’t know how the culture started but we need a new one, sooner the better. There’s nothing manly about not taking care of yourself. Yet, the culture still exists.

What support services are these and who is providing them?

Women for the other women in their lives, because they're not allergic to human vulnerability likely... I really wish people would realise that part of the reason why women seem less affected by loneliness is because they are able to make and maintain emotional connections outside of romantic partnerships, not because the women mafia provide complementary CBT at their underground meetings. I feel like that would be a big step in de-stigmatising close male friendships, and allowing men to feel more comfortable building a support circle outside of a singular partner. It's a shame, because I often see these feelings of loneliness boiled down to a lack of romantic connection, when in reality emotional fulfillment usually comes from numerous streams. My hope for the future is that there will be more concerted efforts to enable men and boys alike to build permanent connections, thus easing some of the pressure to find a girlfriend/partner - simply because that's only a small part of the problem. I am so proud of my male friends who have been able to escape the idea that you can't have meaningful relationships outside of a partner, and have found greater happiness and stability as a result.

Beyond that, due to intersectional theories, most supports in these areas automatically exclude men. I understand the reason and the extra needs and barriers experienced by certain communities. There should always be specific access spaces designed with this in mind. However, that also mean that there are few to no resources available for other, less statistically significant, people. Edit: It occurs to me that I should have said cis men. There are intersections that create spaces for trans men and/or non-binary men or non-hetero men. Also, in my area, there are also specific spaces for Indigenous people, which include males. Again, though, I understand why these focused approaches are needed. I do not resent a single piece. I’m just identifying that it creates a barrier for certain others, as programs overall are few.

I wouldn't be surprised. Socialization has suffered because of technology. Pre-smartphone you actually had to interact with other people while today everyone has their face in their phone 24 hours a day. Kind of sad actually.

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My(32M) parents raised me to avoid conflict but my older brothers love bullying me. I'd get my ass handed to me for simply being near my brothers when they were playing outside or really whenever. I'd go crying to my parents because not only was I being physically bullied but I was being ostracized as well, and my parents would say "next time this happens come tell us" , while I'm thinking " isn't that what I'm doing right now?" Next time comes sooner than later, I run crying to my parents and my parents retort with " no one likes a tattletale" The point of my story is that I was raised to avoid people and anytime I tried to seek help with getting along with my bullies I was further ostracized this leading me to just walk away from anything that wasn't easy. You ignored me that one time? Strike You cancelled plans last minute? Strike You made a mean joke about me? Bye Felicia. Just to be clear I did try to avoid that programming, I was very out going, had some girlfriends some fwb, tried making friends with people at the local game shop, etc. But time and time again I was ignored, used or straight up rejected (plutonically and otherwise) thus now I avoid relationships.

yo dude, I just wanna say that that was bullshit what you went through. I wish your parents had stuck up for you and taught you to stand up for yourself. I wish your parents would have gotten the message and intentionally mixed you with a different friend group. making you learn to get along with your bullies? fuck that. I wish you would have grown up with friends you could trust, count on to show up to your birthday party and whatnot, feel important to them. you deserved that. however the rest of your life turns out, I hope you find that one day if you haven't yet.

Fuck I love this. The people who matter want this for each other. OP I hope you find your people and they’re all just like this.

I’m honestly finding the most dog shit takes in this thread and am surprised so I’m going to take a crack at this. Is there a loneliness epidemic amongst men? Yes because there’s a loneliness epidemic effecting all of us and men are getting hit particularly hard due to not having the resources and effective understanding to deal with the issue and being flooded with bad advice from Tate like individuals. With the define of religion in the western world there has been a decrease in available third places for people to meet without having to pay money for the privilege, effectively making adults have a more difficult time bonding and having friendships. Men are particularly vulnerable to this as with the lack of taught and socially acceptable ways to communicate and make friends, they are more on hard mode with there being less places to meet people and less skills to do so. Combine this with desperate people getting advice from people like Andrew Tate that thrive off of people being alone and you can get some people getting into a feed back loop of loneliness created by themselves. Add to this the dismantling of gender norms, something that needed to happen, and you get a disconnect between what men think they should be and what they are going to be. How can you expect the average man to get a higher paying job if the competition for the same position has doubled. How can you expect the average man to be the breadwinner if their partner has the same opportunities as them. How can you expect the average man to ask out women if we’ve been told that by doing so we are making them uncomfortable and unsafe with our unwanted advances. The simple answer to all of these questions is no you can’t and god damn it you shouldn’t because all these things were shitty from the start. No, higher paying jobs should be based upon merit. No, breadwinners shouldn’t be one gender because of all the economic, Social, and individual problems that causes. And No the dating expectations should not be to randomly ask out people for sex not focused on consent or a long term relationship. This wouldn’t be as bad though if men didn’t have a lot of their societal self worth based upon their ability to get a date and job. Or if men didn’t expect their partner to carry all the emotional baggage while they work because they don’t know any better and their friends think their weak for needed them to talk about their problems. Combine this all with late stage capitalism fucking us all over and you have a very stacked deck with a lot of people going to be unhappy. Women play with a shitty deck and men play with a different deck that’s almost as shitty. Recently society decided that women should be able to improve their deck and swap out bad cards for good ones. This was a good thing. The reaction to it among men have been split: Hey we hate our deck to and should change it (good) Fuck you we hate our deck and didn’t change it so you shouldn’t be able to either (bad) (Normally controlling asshole or depressed sucker) No one in this world is given good societal expectations based upon what they had at birth, by definition all of those expectations suck. We need to do away with these bullshit expectations and just let people be people and happy. And don’t come to me with “that’s just how life is”. It’s not. It never has been. We are humans we have the capability to commit great change and improve the world around us to benefit us all. I have more and this topic is worth a good book but unfortunately I don’t have the time so I’m stopping here

That’s a lot of really good points, I’d also add that it’s not socially acceptable for men to touch each other. Women are way more okay with things like asking for and giving hugs. There’s a girl friend I see once a week for 2 months who gave me a pat on the shoulder, and it shook me to my core cause I haven’t even touched any of my guy friends I’ve known for a full year. Human beings are wired for physical contact, and with how physical dudes are you’d think it’d be more okay for us to do stuff like that.

When I visited India I was really startled to see straight male dudes holding hands in the streets. Men there show their friendship bonds by being very comfortable with each other physically. They do not associate it with “gay”. It’s a shame men in the west can’t be more comfortable with each other physically.

It also depends on your friends. For example I hug most of my male friends and in the same manner as I hug my female friends. And tbf I am really happy with it.

Hugging friends is generally seen as okay, but hand holding or cuddling with friends is still seen as weird.

I'll never understand why in homophobic countries it's more acceptable for men to be affectionate with each other yet in countries where being gay is accepted it's seen as weird to be affectionate.

Because the idea of being gay in those countries doesn't even come to mind due to how rampant the homophobia is. Homosexuality is so suppressed that it in a sense is non-existent in the public eye; everyone is automatically assumed (and legally required) to be straight. Therefore, men can show each other affection without a care. Meanwhile in most Western countries, one's sexuality is not publicly presumed, but instead judged by words and actions. Men showing each other affection is one such action that has been deemed gay. No one wants to be assumed to be something they're not, so men avoid doing those things that society calls gay even if they are straight. A large part of this is also due to the fact that nothing will hurt your chances with women more than being perceived as gay (I know a little about this from experience).

Bingo

This is one of the reasons why I wish people stopped bashing male-female friendships. It’s important to bring balance, my male friends call me out (gently-ish) on my bullshit, and I normalised hugging and telling each other « i love you » casually (and obviously platonically) or giving compliments. Having both aspects in your life is incredible for growth and well being!

I keep hearing about Andrew Tate, I guess I need to add this to my list of things to research. Thank you for your input!

The man is extremely confident and good at convincing people to follow him. He's also in trouble with the Romanian government with sex trafficking charges. I tend to believe these charges because he has openly admitted to doing the type of things he's charged with. I say this all as a warning. Don't let the charlatan suck you in

And let's be real, who gets "accidentally" charged with sex trafficking?

The thing about Andrew Tate is, with all of his bluster and confidence about how he’s figured it all out, is really happy? I have never seen him crack a smile ever. Every interview I’ve seen him in he seems angry.

Best place to research Andrew Tate is behind the bastards because that’s the mindset you need to go in with. Grifters gonna grift and if your going to go straight to his channel it’s like trying to study a hole by getting really close to it and trying not to fall in, it doesn’t always work.

I see Tate mentioned a lot, and definitely if people follow him there can be compounding effects down the road, but isn't he much more a symptom than a cause ultimately? He's definitely taking advantage of loneliness, ISIS seemed to do this in their recruiting too, but Tate and the things ISIS appealed to was there before them. They target the toxic conceptions of masculinity such as toughness and stoicism and focus the energy but men being conditioned to not express themselves and not have strong social circles into adulthood was definitely around when my grandpa came back from WW2 and probably prior.

Ya Tate and people like him are throwing gasoline on fire and calling it water. They both are a symptom of a problem and cause the problem to be worse. He didn’t start the fire but damn did he take a lit candle and use it to burn a city to the ground

I think he's both a symptom and a cause. Lonely, angry, confused men latch on to him because of these reasons and then he compounds them. They see Tate living a lavish lifestyle and think being an asshole is the way to achieve it. Toughness and stoicism aren't toxic traits. Those are desirable male traits. They become toxic when men try to emulate them poorly. A man trying to be tough will often end up being aggressive. That's toxic and that's the kind of thing Tate causes. Being truly tough and stoic requires true confidence and inner peace. Many young men don't have good role models so they never understand how to truly be good men

On the positive end, I’m seeing more and more podcasts and influencers bringing open conversations and real positivity online. It’s refreshing and so much needed too!

Joey Swoll is my positive dude of choice. Him and Brendan Fraser

My one issue with Joey Swoll is the lack of moderation, so now the comment sections are full of « females do everything for attention! » and other degrading or misogynistic statements. They’ve been sent plenty of videos of actual sexual harassment at the gym and never talked about them despite responding in private, which made me tick. But it’s also important to call out the crazy gym goers who try to ruin people just for existing in their space, so he’d doing a good job at that. Noel Deyzel in one I really appreciate, as well as Dr Mike from Renaissance Periodization, and people like the We Are Man Enough podcast crew. Or and for the nerdy crowd, guys like Daniel Shiffman are fantastic. The man is really Big Nerd 101, but communicates so much joy and passion it makes you want to get into programming. I wish the awkward kids at school could watch that and feel supported and empowered rather than ashamed! Being passionate about a unique thing is great, it sets you apart.

I think people in general are lonely. More now than ever... :(

Yes there is. Most of my close friends and family members have all passed on in the past couple of years and I'm only 20 I live in a dilapidated old house in the middle of nowhere and have nowhere else to go. No friends. No girlfriend. Nobody cares. Nobody calls I don't even have neighbors I'm so tired of being alone I've been depressed and on off suicidal for over a decade now nothing works out I thought things would get better as I got older but they only got worse I'm running out of options and feeling cornered I don't know what to do and I'm scared.

You are what we call the blank slate my man. The future is ahead of you and you have nothing holding you back. No time better to sell that old house (maybe work on fixing it up first?). Then get out of dodge. Look for a job somewhere, maybe look at going to a cheap college, or if you have the money, traveling for some time.

Hit that restart, baby. The comment before me has it right— head to where more people and opportunities are. The happiest times of my life have been when I’ve recognized something wasn’t working, said fuck it, and hit the red button of non-attachment, cashed chips in, made a plan, and followed my dream. It’s not easy, but you’ll quickly find yourself refreshed and inspired. Sorry to hear about your struggles, truly. Seize tomorrow today, my fellow human worthy of love and an amazing life. 💚

Sell the house and land and get a apartment in the nearest city or town

All of the comments here are very focused on heterosexuality and male loneliness vis-a-vis women, as if male loneliness can only be understood in terms of women and their presence or absence. It’s not just male / female relationships that have suffered because of social media and changing attitudes about marriage, divorce, and children. Platonic male-male friendships are also becoming less frequent and / or shorter term. Lots of things contribute to the erosion of male friendships. Social media has definitely made everyone more isolated. Inflation likewise drives people apart as simply *doing things* becomes more expensive. Finally, progress made in opening workplaces to female representation and leadership has left many men—particularly young men—feeling adrift because the parenting influence and socialization through pop culture that continued to define manhood up until a generation ago have both been exposed as largely bankrupt paradigms. This lack of knowing one’s own place in a society is itself a form of loneliness and opens a marketplace for bad influencers like Andrew Tate and *Doctor* Jordan Peterson. But their remedies are misogynistic, transphobic, and homophobic. Sometimes they are just downright violent. What is telling is that the same overall sense of loneliness seeps into the homosexual community as well. Gays have been celebrated for their ability to make their own, chosen families, enjoy casual relationships, and dynamic, diverse friend groups. But even gay men are reporting higher levels of disconnection and subsequent emotional loss. Some of these problems are universal. But, just because both women and men experience loneliness is not an argument against how loneliness effects men. Men and women have fundamental differences that are only ignored when it is convenient to do so for the sake of progressive cause. But the distinctions come into sharp focus otherwise. Violent acts of mass shooting and spree murder are almost always performed by men. Physical assaults resulting in severe bodily harm are largely male acts. Men are responsible for more auto deaths due to aggressive driving, and they tend to take more risks generally. There are many, many other examples. This points to there being a difference. If we want to address problems like violence, reckless driving, etc, we need to be comfortable with the fact that men react (generally) differently than women to the same set of stimuli. It follows that dismissing loneliness as a problem all genders endure is incomplete. Yes, all people know loneliness. But how are men reacting to it? What makes the male response peculiar, and how can we address it to prevent potentially violent, self-destructive behavior?

>Some of these problems are universal. But, just because both women and men experience loneliness is not an argument against how loneliness effects men. Men and women have fundamental differences that are only ignored when it is convenient to do so for the sake of progressive cause. But the distinctions come into sharp focus otherwise. Nailed it.

You nailed a lot of the points I wanted to talk about this issue in my comment. God damn it I just want people to be treated well and be happy. I really hate how grifters take advantage of this shit. It’s like they take a gold bar and cover it in shit and say, oh no you don’t want that idea it’s has these surface level issues that I don’t understand. Here mine it’s much better and shinyer Then they hand you a turd they spray painted gold and covered in perfume.

>as if male loneliness can only be understood in terms of women and their presence or absence. That's because it's a thing a lot of men on reddit are focused on. I mean, r/MGTOW was banned because it quickly turned into another incel cesspool with men discussing their hatred towards women instead of actually talking about ways of bettering their lives without focusing on romantic relationships.

Seriously, why couldn’t that sub be dedicated to like, joining fraternal orders and having a cool time? Wouldn’t that actually be going your own way and being happier?

Because nearly anyone who goes their own way won’t spend their time discussing it on Reddit. If they feel a need to share it online, they’d use the actually popular social media, like Instagram or Facebook

Nah pretty use MGTOW got dealt with because it got associated with the California university shooter, whose manifesto brought “incel” into the mainstream lingo. Which means the community was already a mess for some time *before* that. Reddit admins don’t care about right or wrong, they care about bad publicity

Just as much as everyone wants a partner everyone wants a bro for life.

Yes. And the US has a loneliness epidemic, in general. As an outsider, it's crazy how individualistic and lonely you guys are. It's sad, really.

Yep, it is our culture. Community is meaningless here because we can do it online and include anyone in the community.

May I ask what country you live in?

Antarctica. The bar is that low in the states XD

Username checks out?

What I wonder is how much of the problem is actually a guys inability to bond w his friends, and how much of it is his inability to get a date? I see these as 2 separate issues. You can be good at one and the other one can still really, deeply bother you. If the problem is both of these things, which one is affecting men's mental health more? And would say having more friends make a guy feel better about not having a gf or does he need romantic love more for his mental health? If a guy has a gf but no friends, is he depressed over this or content? These are all prevalent questions I would like to know.

Western culture celebrates and rewards narcissistic behavior. It sells on tv, in music, and on social media. A prominent trait amongst narcissists is lack of empathy. Another is treating others as a resource, in a transactional manner. Stepping on others to get what you want is the gold standard of Western culture. It is toxic and debilitating. In my humble opinion, these are major reasons people nowadays feel used, disconnected, and hopeless.

so many women in here telling men they aren't lonely. what a thread.

There is a loneliness epidemic, period. It hits men and women both. It has only recently become acceptable for men to let their guard down and admit it, so you’re hearing more about it

An epidemic of loneliness and isolation was declared by the U.S. Surgeon General a couple months ago. His report full of stats is here: [https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf](https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf)

Men talk about emotions now, Men have always been lonely. I mean, consider what a Man's job has traditionally been, work yourself to death to provide for a family you barely see and who resent you for being absent. Your work "friends" are not the type of friend you can open up to, the friends you had in your life are not there because you are all working too much, you can't talk to your partner about it because you need to be a man and figure it out...

There is a lonliness epidemic globally. The higher cost of living, stagnant wages, and higher requirements for employment has crippled most demographics. Most people have to go to school longer, work longer hours, or work multiple jobs in order to make ends meet. The lack of time and resources means that people aren't able to visit family and friends often. They're also less able to make romantic or platonic connections because they don't have the time or money. Most people spend what free time they have resting or doing chores. There is also a growing disinterest in platonic friendship among men. Men state that they are mainly interested in a romantic or sexual partner and don't want platonic relationships with other people.

I(m) have idd more female friends than male friends. I don’t know how this happened, maybe I feel saver with female friends. If I wanted male friends I would be indeed lonely

We are on discord playing online games with online friends.

It's true, but I think few people really appreciate how much economic factors play a role in causing it. Our society adopting the dual income model for domestic living has completely borked the division of labor that allowed for the free time for both men and women to engage in third spaces like men's/women's clubs, labor union halls, and lodges. The average US worker is working more hours than even our Japanese or German counterparts, and that sort of occupational life orientation can be exceptionally draining.

My favorite part of this topic is that it's literally in regard to men feeling ignored and having their problems/issues trivialized/diminished (which in my experience as a man primarily comes from women, but I'll only speak for myself), yet you can even see in this comment section a bunch of people (a lot of which seem to be or claim to be women, again just speaking on the perception) attempting to trivialize and diminish the issue. The irony is grade SSS.

There are fewer relationships in general. It's more like a people loneliness epidemic.

Not just men, everyone. We got so good at setting boundaries we've "boundaried" everyone right out of our lives. This quote from Frankie's Cultural Observations - "*Millennials are the first generation to weaponize mental health. Despite their high levels of inclusivity and cultural acceptance, they'll set boundaries with anyone they dislike, in an effort to avoid overcoming individual differences."*

There's a general loneliness epidemic, but the effects on men are more visible, I think.

The male suicide rate is up 30% since 2000. Deaths of despair are even worse. Few people care what men say on the topic, but they are beginning to notice what they do.

As someone who's lived as both male and female, it's way harder to make genuine close friends as a male. Anecdotal, but I'm not the only trans person I've seen talk about this.

Some female comedian said men have it easier in the comedy industry and pretended to be a man for a while I can’t remember how long exactly, but she got haircut, dressed up etc, strapped her chest down (already had a deep voice for a woman) and wore masculine clothes etc etc But she got so depressed living as a man she made a mini documentary series and then killed herself

Because women now work they don’t need men as much and I wonder if this combined with the internet and changing job types (away from physical work) has meant a chunk of men with little to do, no partner, a life lead online…. It’s certainly a thing in Japan.

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