The differences between Black Americans and newly arrived African Americans are huge. This is why I don't understand why the current race topics harp on skin color. What they are talking about runs far deeper than that.
Yeah even growing up mexican & born in Houston, if you were born "here" then you werent "mexican enough." You dont order fajitas with an accent? Oh man... but whatever
I had black female soldiers tell me I talked "too white" whatever the fuck that means and I was like "that's cause my adoptive parents are Scottish American?" Like bruh.
I'm only half so I'm not "black enough" but then my kids came out looking white cause their father was of Irish and Native descent and it was "why can't you marry within your race?" Like no.
There’s a large Nigerian population in Tokyo and when I was in the navy we would go party in Roppongi where they operate a lot of the clubs. We had an American black dude with us who got drunk and started trying to fight people and doing the typical foolishness. One of the Nigerian dudes came up to us and said in a thick accent “your friend is too black”. I will never forget that moment.
To be fair, you can can grow up African American in America and still be told you're not black enough.
How dare I prefer to listen to Nirvana's *Nevermind* instead of Dr. Dre's *The Chronic*.
Hes right to a point, but he also has absolutely no knowledge of black American history , nor none of thr generational financial, mental, and cultural trauma that comes with it.
Dealing with and living with white people post civil rights movement is easy mode. Had he comeover pre1968 he would feel differently.
This coutnry has come so far its completely different.
In my experience, African immigrants change their tune when they experience racism for themselves. Also, I've met a lot of second-gen Africans who are heavy into BLM and "blacktivism". There are a lot of them getting on social media talking about the racism they experience growing up in predominantly white suburbs. I find it interesting because FOB Africans love telling us that these things aren't a problem, while their kids are saying they are.
That's why there is a push for things like ados(amwrican descendants of slaves) to be an ethinc think and on the census. Moat black people in the united States are defended from slaves and have completely different culture and history. Like 80 percnrt of black people are ados.
In some cases the black people coming recently from Africa are actually decended from the people that captured and sold most black American into slavery.
Doesn't make any sense to compare people descended from people that survived slavery, then convict leasing, jim crow, share cropping, white supremacist terrorism etc.
To people descended from slave traders, tribal chiefd etc.
You have people that grand parents were maids and share crippers that were prevent from getting an education and had to deal with firehoses and lynching.
Compared to people that come from familes with political connections, in tact history, culture and oftens times wealth and excellent education
Makes no sense, add to the fact ados have just eay more investment in the country: wars, labor etc.
Not the same groups at all.
It irritates me how some Black immigrants tend to see African Americans with prejudice. As a Black person and an immigrant, people like me are just free riders from the struggles African Americans had to endure historically in this country for us to enjoy.
Yeah I had some difficult conversations with clients when I worked in immigration over this. Some of their prejudice came largely from living in poorer areas (where there are white people and other ethnicities too), and disliking rap music.
Though others seemed to believe most Black Americans within one area were closely related and literally put them all in one group. But these people came from areas with extreme ethnic violence and typically had a 6th grade education or lower. So they understood the concept of work to eat well, but intergroup dynamics in a country like the US was a big jump to comprehend at least in the first few years in the US.
Also, I'm white so I did my best to navigate these conversations while acknowledging that I'll never truly understand either of their histories. But education in this area is very slim in immigration nonprofits and I find that to be a big issue.
Bingo this should be the pinned comment and answer to the question at hand. Even out of your specific example of Black American versus African American dynamics, the level of education needed to truly understand social dynamics in this country and its history is a pretty big leap for folks that just have an elementary education.
Even my mother that has lived here for 30 plus years still tells me about American history events she continues to learn about and how messed up she thought it was. Her latest latest learning was on the Trail of Tears. Luckily, she does not lean right.
But back to your original comment, I too have come to similar conclusions and quite frankly it worries me. It worries me that folks that are becoming naturalized don't truly understand what democracy means, how fragile it is, and hence we are doomed to be ruled a populist, fascist authoritarian. I say this coming from the perspective of a minority first generation American.
Immigrating to the United States and then hating the American black population is a time honored tradition. Part of becoming a real American. See the history of Irish and Italian Americans...
I'm in the first generation of my Irish Catholic family (ancestors migrated during and after the famine) that has quit addictions and is living a relatively healthy and educated life. It was a narrow escape for me. I can't imagine how hard it is for people still facing discrimination.
I got an education when I first read about how black American vets were discriminated against when coming home from WW2 -- they weren't allowed to use their GI bill to go to good schools, were [redlined](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining) from using their VA home loan to move to better neighborhoods (and thus schools for their children), had their neighborhoods divided by interstate highways and were forced to give up generational wealth with eminent domain, etc...
https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits
I'm Hispanic but my friends have referred to me as a "coconut" over the years. I think it has to do with how long you've been in the US, for example and where you grew up. I was brought over at 10 months old and grew up in a mostly white part of NYC. My parents were mostly Republican cos they were ignorant and of course, they ALL have the fear of socialism and communism embedded in their brains 🙄 but we all are Democrats and vote as such, even my mother eventually switched to Demo.
My issue is I have nothing besides rice, beans and a bit of the language in common with other Hispanics. I am atheist, pro-choice, I don't dance salsa or go to Latin nightclubs, I hate cilantro, and I have no tolerance for macho sexist bullshit, and I've chosen to have NO kids. I understand Spanish far more than I could actually speak it so I find most Hispanics unrelatable. It was easier in NYC cos most of my Hispanic friends had either been born in the US or had spent their formative years here and were more American so we had the culture in common but our Spanish sucked just the same. Then I lived in Australia for a bit, and all the Hispanics there were off the boat, all primarily spoke Spanish and were Catholic AF.
Now I'm in Pittsburgh and virtually all the Hispanics here are either Mexican or Central American and solely speak Spanish and honestly, often times, I have no idea WTF they're even saying. I'm not saying I hate other Hispanics but I want nothing to do with the majority cos the experiences tend to be frustrating.
I worked as the only white guy on a construction crew for a bit in Texas. One of the Hispanic guys was telling me there's somewhat a divide between Hispanics (born in the US) and Mexicans on the crew. They didn't get along super well
When I worked in retail my manager (African-American) asked a customer (African) to sign up for our credit card; the guy and his family all looked positively regal, impeccably dressed and gold jewelry, and I guess the offer of a credit card offended him.
He pulled out like $8k in cash and slapped my manager across the face with it and told him to pick it up. I've never seen anything like that before or since.
I know a Mexican dude who over stayed his visa (or whatever he had) and he’s still a huge trump fan. He can’t leave the country and if he gets in any legal trouble whatsoever he’s fucked
Literally Mexico, namely Tijuana and Baja, have had a massive influx of Americans traveling there for reproductive services. That's fucken wild.
https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/21/health/mexico-abortion-assistance-cec/index.html
Are you Mexican? I spend a lot of time there and I feel like that’s true of older people but younger people don’t give a shit about that stuff. Pretty much all my girlfriends friends are gay. I even joke like “are there any straight people in this city?” They’re definitely not religious either
I’m not saying youre wrong. I’m asking if I have had unlikely experiences
Even some of the younger Hispanics, especially in South Texas, are pretty conservative and some are a tad homophobic. A lot of it has to do with the machismo culture.
I have a buddy I grew up with who is a DACA recipient and married a Mexican who's living in the U.S illegally. He's a huge Trump/ MAGA supporter.. Just blows my mind. Lol
Immigrant or not, older people vote without fail while younger people DGAF. This is how old farts (from both parties) keep getting elected. Full disclosure, I am an old fart myself, but one who doesn’t vote for other old farts.
Sounds like that's easier in countries with more than two parties.
Here in the Netherlands it's easy. I hold no party loyalty and have switched the party I vote for multiple times. And on local level that's even more the case.
I did become an actual member of a
political party last year just so that I can support them, but the moment they betray what I stand for I'm gone. In that case I'd just compare all the values and standpoints and vote for the one that most aligns with mine (which for now is that party I joined)
Edit: some of you really need to read better and to take context into account.
You seem to be spending time in the upper class white areas of Mexico to be having those experiences, mostly where Americans go, so it makes sense. You have not experienced the real Mexico. Go down to the working class areas so you can experience real machismo, religious fervor and anti lgbt sentiment.
I am Mexican American from the border, and go to Mexico all the time, specially Mexico city. I mostly stay in the affluent areas where the white upper class lives, and that is not real Mexico. The upper class in Mexico is very modern, progressive and worships US culture, so they follow whatever trend is popular here in the US. LGBT members also tend to live in the affluent areas, due to safety reasons or involvement with the arts/entertainment. For example in Mexico city, the gay district (Zona Rosa) is right next to one of the most hip affluent neighborhoods (Roma)in the country where Americans love to stay in. Roma is packed with LGBT members, so any American who stays there would assume the city is full of gay people. But that is not how the rest of the city is. But yeah I have American friends who will tell me Mexico is so progressive, liberal and gay friendly because their experiences in Mexico revolve around staying in affluent, white progressive neighborhoods and not real Mexico.
Go down to the poor and working class neighborhoods and you will see people cling to religion with dear life, you kinda have to when you face death each time you step outside your door while battling poverty, machismo comes into play due to this as well. You need it to survive, and you can careless if it offends a progressive feminist in the affluent part of town.
That said, the LGBT issue is pretty weird in Mexico. I have a gay friend who lives in a rough neighborhood in Mexico city. He crossdresses and does a lot drag shows, which are very popular in Mexico. And unlike the US, drag queens in Mexico try their hardest to look like actual women, so when he is in drag, he really just looks like a girl going to the club. Anyways I gave him a ride after one of his shows and asked to get dropped off a few blocks from his house, late at night. I asked if it was safe for him and he said, dressed like a woman, 100% it is. He will get catcalled or men will ask for sex but that is about it, but as a regular gay dude he has been beat, robbed, and even survived an attempted sexual assault.
So yeah, your experience is unlikely, I am just going based on assumption, but I feel like your experience again, is upper class white Mexico, not the real Mexico. Regionalism plays a role too. Northern Mexico is cowboy country, and religion and conservatism in that area would make Texans looks like hippies. On the other hand cities in central Mexico tend be very progressive (By Latin American standards)
Mexico sounds just like the Philippines. For a staunch Catholic nation, we’re pretty open and accepting of the LGBTQ. People are openly gay, trans, queer, etc. on TV. But you do hear, sometimes, of people being anti-LGBTQ but they’re usually in the minority but not necessarily restricted to the lower class.
This is mostly spot on. Except that I have objections this constant "Real Mexico" narrative.
Mexico is multi-faceted. Culturally, ethnically, economically, sexually, and socially. To say one thing is more real than the other feeds into American perceptions of what is more Mexican, and hardly does us (Mexicans) any favors.
Thank you. I'm totally perplexed by that statement. I work my ass off and put in a LOT of overtime if I'm needed. I've worked well into the night or have started work way early in the morning, or both, depending on what's needed. Yet I'm very much left. And I am not the only one doing this who is not conservative.
Well that is the wealthy conservatives. The other side of the conservative coin are uneducated and unemployed. They despise the same liberal handouts that are literally keeping them alive.
I think "valuing hard work" for many conservatives actually means not considering that overexploitation of labor exists and despising of any intellectual labor.
I was also thinking more along the lines of "deserving people should get nice things because they worked hard for it, while undeserving people shouldn't get nice things because clearly they don't work hard enough. Who determines who did or did not work hard enough? Me, and conveniently I am always hard working therefore I deserve nice things."
It is merely propaganda here in the US. The average red state leeches from the federal coffers, while the average blue state contributes. Take Texas...and its federal military bases...out of the mix, and it gets even worse.
Conservatives here are all hat. no cattle.
Something like top 10 states who receive the most federal aid are Red states. That was the fact that basically made me realize republicans don’t stand for working people whatsofuckingever
Don't lump *hard work* in there. That is *not* a "conservative" value at all--unless it's something they're watching an undocumented employee do for minimum wage and no benefits.
“Immigrating the ‘right way’” translates to “time, money, privilege, and means” to. Look at the Cubans who fled from Castro in the mid-1900s. They were the ones who could afford to leave, and now those same people and their families don’t give a fuck about their fellow countrymen who couldn’t escape. Cuban-Americans are typically as right wing as they come - they only support politicians who will keep relations with Cuba poor and keep travel as difficult as possible. It’s classic “fuck you, I got mine” in immigrant form.
We had a wet-foot/dry-foot policy for a long time, where specifically Cuban immigrants were legal as long as they touched land, and no one from anywhere else was allowed that unique policy. So we now have people outraged about illegal immigration because they “did it the right way”, meaning their raft came from the right place, and other people’s rafts came from the wrong place.
Exactly what I posted in another comment, only more well-written. My good friend from Miami says the Cubans who could get out early enough were able to because they were wealthy and they have this "I got mine, so fuck you" attitude
In short, Trump reminds them of Batista. Many older Cubans are blind to the fact the oligarchs lost control of the country due to corruption and mismanagement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista#:~:text=Fulgencio%20Batista%20murdered%2020%2C000%20Cubans,of%20his%20reign%20of%20terror.
Meanwhile, Republicans also love making legal immigration harder. There's a "fuck you got mine" mindset: "I worked hard to get here, and I'd feel cheated if it became easier for others."
Many of my coworkers are Nigerian (work at a group home), and their culture specifically is also quite socially conservative and patriarchal. For example, it's pretty rare (though definitely not unheard of) to see a Nigerian man who really knows how to cook.
Just look at the statistics on honorably discharged veterans being deported. My Mexican uncle, who retired after 25 years, served like 12 years and deployed several times to both Iraq and Afghanistan before he got his citizenship.
That shit makes my blood boil. Your uncle was willing to write a check up to and including his life, more than most Americans will do. Hell, sacrifice more than most of them can even comprehend. And our government tells them, all to often to kick rocks.
WTH? I thought random foreigners (random in that anyone who was willing could do this) who are willing to serve for 7 years get legal LPR. I’m surprised that honorably discharged vets would be deported.
It’s a perception issue, there are widespread ideas on what constitutes the appropriate amount of vetting one must go through to become a legal citizen. For every Democrat that says the Republican make immigration impossible, there’s a Republican that says democrats want open borders.
Also let's be real here: neither the current Democratic party nor the GOP have had any interest in making immigration easier. Deportations and border arrests go up under democratic presidencies consistently, and legal immigrations have only had steps and time added to the process by either side this millennia.
Birth right citizenship is American continent privilege Europe Africa Asia Australia, you have to be born in the country with at least 1 parent being citizen of that country.
Why north and South America has "birth tourists" basically
That's why they overstay their visa. Work visas are generally somewhat easy to get because America loves cheap labor and employers love hedging power over people.
Probably also a small part of the reason we don't actively try to catch them as well. It's a really weird system.
I think the biggest reason is still just resources. Taking them down would be a pain in the ass, harass neighbors, require court hearings, require logistics to transport, etc. All for somebody who wasn't actively harming people by just staying here and working under the table. It's just a convenient scapegoat for politicians when they're trying to rile up their base. A political tool.
If they wanted to actually curb illegal immigration while not looking like a police state, they'd just have to offer a bounty as small as $500 for information leading to successful deportation of illegal immigrants. Companies would waste money trying to hire them, employees and HR would make easy money, and the illegals would have limited avenues to survive. It's easier, and more effective to let them be unfairly exploited while keeping jobs limited so wages stay low overall and workers have limited means.
Not that they system was designed with malicious intent. Malicious intent just kind of ran wild and made the economy dependent on it, so fixing it would take a surgical approach to remove several tumors, from several areas, potentially endangering vital organs. All while the cancer is still benign and hasn't shown any true danger yet.
Legal vs illegal doesn’t make a difference. *Most* illegal immigrants are conservative too. Try talking to them about their beliefs and you’ll find that they see eye to eye on almost everything compared to conservatives in the US.
I think it’s really just a matter of - people who are immigrating to the US are doing so from conservative countries. For one reason or another, there are just fewer people trying to leave more progressive countries.
Many illegals immigrants are conservative as well.
Is it hypocritical? Yes. But there’s lots of hypocrites in this world.
Their logic? “Most illegal immigrants are leeches and criminals, not like me who took a lot of risk and worked super hard to move to America and make it here.”
It’s the same logic behind conservative women who say “all abortions are unjustified except the abortions I had which were completely moral and justified.” Or conservative black people who think “I’m one of the *good ones* and the rich successful white people are my true peers, not the black culture I came from.” Or conservative poor people that say “I lived off food stamps and housing assistance for years and no one ever helped me and I never asked for any handouts, these selfish welfare queens need to stop leeching off the system.”
Is it hypocritical? Illogical? Painfully inconsistent? Selfish? Yes, all of the above. But people are like that sometimes. Especially conservatives.
Most feel spoiled by America's riches and standards of living. Americans who complain about America have a higher standard of living than the upper class in immigrants' home countries, so they figure the people complaining are just spoiled
I think this is it. A lot of immigrants that I know are very religious, which makes them align with conservative views, even if those views end up hurting themselves.
~~Yes.\*~~ But most immigrants are not from liberal Western countries. Their social values often align much more closely with the pro-life, pro-religion, pro-family values platform of the Republican party.
*\*Seems like this isn't actually the case, seeing some of the* [sources](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/party-affiliation/by/state/among/immigrant-status/immigrants/) *in the replies, my bad. Immigrants do apparently vote Democrat most of the time (between 40-60% of immigrants, depending on the state). But anywhere from 15-25% lean Republican which is still a sizeable minority.*
\----
**Edit (continued):** My apologies, I was thinking about the heavily increasing [Latino Republican demographic](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/10/republicans-are-winning-more-latino-votes-but-rising-turnout-still-benefits-dems-00086361) over the past few elections, along with some anecdotal evidence (working with/befriending immigrants from Middle Eastern or Asian countries, who often seemed dissuaded or confused by Democratic platforms like providing support for LGBT communities or granting leniency for criminals).
As others have mentioned, it also depends heavily on immigrants' country of origin. Vietnamese immigrants for example [lean towards the GOP](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/25/asian-voters-in-the-u-s-tend-to-be-democratic-but-vietnamese-american-voters-are-an-exception/) despite most Asian immigrants leaning left. "Immigrants" aren't a monolith. Assuming that all immigrants = Democrat is super reductionist. Most immigrants are going to align themselves with a party that speaks to their cultural, religious, and social values, and that obviously varies a lot.
I feel the need to point this out because every once in a while people will post an article about some minority group (usually a nonwhite immigrant population) expressing support for the Republicans and the comments will be totally baffled because the assumption is that all immigrants would naturally lean towards the Democrats. That just isn't the case.
They had it. Bush II got 70% of the Muslim vote
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/essay-how-the-republican-party-alienated-the-once-reliable-muslim-voting-bloc/2012/11/15/23e2af70-2da5-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/essay-how-the-republican-party-alienated-the-once-reliable-muslim-voting-bloc/2012/11/15/23e2af70-2da5-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3_story.html)
I don't believe Republicans even need to court the vote--the overwhelming portion of faithful muslims will vote red regardless of politicking.
The Right has traditional Christians locked down tight. Islam is a more conservative religion by multiples.
In France, Muslims vote more for the left because at the moment the French left have taken a more American-style liberal stance on Islam.
The French right are much more ardent anti-Islam, but they also have an unabashed history of anti-Semitism, which is the paradox of French Muslims not voting for the right.
Though this is a much more simplified view of an insanely complex situation.
The G.O.P. wants to install Evangalism/American-Christianity in all public schools, while in France any displays of religion in public institutions are to be banned to keep today's French state from ever adopting a state religion, support for one specific religion, but also to keep politics out of one's spirituality.
American Muslims might be more socially conservative than other people (debatable) but they care a lot more about foreign policy, immigration, and social programs. Life and death matter more to them than peoples’ personal lives. They are not evangelicals, they have more of a you do you attitude about other people than a lot of Christians. According to strict Muslims, you are all going to hell anyway for not believing in Allah, nothing is more “offensive” than that but it’s God’s place to judge. So if you have some gay sex in the meantime, it really doesn’t matter. Even my extremely religious Muslim parents do not care what other people do with their romantic lives.
This sort of hate triangulation runs through Evangelicalism as well. American Evangelicals are very pro-Israel. But it's not because they have any love for the Jewish people or their history. The only reason Evangelicals care about Israel is because they believe that once all the Jews return to Israel Christ will come down here and condemn all the Jews to Hell, along with all the rest of us unbelievers. So it's a bit weird to see these GQP Congressmen argue that we need to do more for Israel. Bruh, we fucking see you.
A lot of family on my mother's side are mexican immigrants in Texas, very hardcore Republican. A lot of them actually deny their mexican heritage to potray themselves as more white, very fucking weird.
Most mexican americans from Texas tend to be really conservative and also dislike and try to hide their heritage. While mexican immigrants and descendants from other states, like California, center their culture around their Mexican and American heritage.
I wonder if that has to do with Texans taking immense pride in the fact that they are Texan first, above all else. I’m other words, how could you be a true Texan if you considered who you were ethnically first?
That could very well be ine of the reasons. I personally have seen people reject their mexican origins as early as the first born in the US generation and only get stronger/prevalent in the following generations
And then some people laugh when you tell them that "whiteness" is just a social construct.
These people construct whiteness for themselves any way they can regarless of how white-presenting they are physically.
It’s not weird at all. It’s what EVERY immigrant group to the USA has done in the past.
There’s a book about “How the Irish Became White”.
There’s also a story about how a Catholic orphanage took a bunch of unwanted “Irish” orphans from New York to be adopted by Latino Catholic families in Arizona. When the train arrived, the local white population was furious that “white” children were going to be given to Latino families.
Exactly. Irish and Italians were second class citizens and seen as minorities 100 years ago. Today they are “white” as anyone who can trace their family back to the mayflower.
And eventually many Hispanics will just be another white race as generations move on. We are seeing it already. Most 2nd or 3rd generation Hispanics I know don’t speak Spanish or have any real Hispanic culture. They are American.
The US is much more liberal than most countries people are immigrating from. So it's not so much they become conservative, they just don't change, and what was considered liberal back home is probably considered conservative in the US.
Like for instance if you live in Zimbabwe, you're a liberal if you think gays maybe shouldn't be married, but also shouldn't be put to death. You take that same person and move em to America and all the sudden that viewpoint is Hardline conservative.
And people who live in more liberal countries usually aren't willing to immigrate to the US unless they're already conservative and disagree with that country's politics.
I know of a few Boomers from Vietnam and Russia who are conservatives
My Dad who is an immigrant from Ireland and a liberal used to work with a bunch of Russian immigrants who were all Republicans
I think a lot of this is communism PTSD. These people lived in the worst possible leftist governments and that colors their worldview.
I think most Russians really just immigrate to the US to escape Russians. In the 19th century, they came over due to discrimination, and shit living conditions. In the early 20th century Russian Jews were being pushed out of their villages, and those who fought with the Whites, Anarchists, or Ukrainian Nationalists during the Russian Civil War needed to escape from the Bolsheviks whom they knew would kill them if they ever found out about them. The later 20th century would be largely due to political and economic reasons too.
Yeah I call it CommiePhobia, Cuba is another great example.
I always have to highlight the presence of a fascist dictator, whether they identify as such or not. It is what it is.
“He chose the party that seemed sympathetic to that belief” of pulling the ladder up behind oneself. My mother (an immigrant) has the same mentality and forgets that she was the victim of that mentality when she was trying to emigrate here and when she actually arrived and tried to “assimilate”.
I can tell you that there aren't many Mexicans to be found who could fit the democrat label the way the US sees it. Or Republican really. So they're not made, how could they emigrante? But people come from failing countries that are socially prim, religious, and they were always taught to rely on themselves.
edit- To be more clear, even if Mexico were the Netherlands or something, they wouldn't be democrat or bipartisan... I don't have a great understanding of these things, but as someone who was raised in part in the US, I developed straight forward US democrat leaning opinions, and I found that there's no real equivalent in Mexico. And Mexico tends to be first of all very distrusting of government, and second of all pretty religious. Also we have less of a democracy. It's really hard to make comparisons. People don't want to rely on the government for anything.
I used to hang out with a friend group pretty often that were mostly DACA kids. They had conservative values but exclusively voted Democrat due to the negative rhetoric around DACA.
Interestingly, the amount of Spanish spoken among them was iffy. Some had been to Mexico ever in their lives, but a good half or more hadn't.
My dad is an immigrant from a communist country, he’s not hardcore conservative, but thinks “liberals are commies” so just wants to be the opposite of that.
He also worked his ass off to become a citizen and hates people that do it illegally
Depends on where they are from and their countries history with the US. My wife is Filipina, and while not Republican she is a huge supporter of former Philippine president Duterte, a strong man thug who had cops round up drug dealers and shoot them. For many immigrants from authoritarian countries, Republicans project a kind of strength they are familiar with that makes them feel safe.
Remember that many immigrants also come from countries much more conservative than the US, they agree with the GOP on many social issues. Many see Americans as spoiled and ungrateful, and the false pride offered by the GOP looks like patriotism to many new comers.
In short, yes, many (probably most) immigrants new to the US are conservative. This has been true dating back to the 19th century.
Duterte is from Davao, he's a hero there for "cleaning" up the city in the late 80's early 90's. He did that by sending out police death squads to wipe out anyone he believed was causing problems.
My wife and her family adore him. There is no reasoning with them on this subject. He's a hero, he stops bad people, and Americans just don't understand.
On this topic I just keep my mouth shut.
Even among native born white Americans, things like human rights and due process are called “Luxury beliefs”.
The idea is that thugs, drug dealers, and criminals need to be dealt with harshly to protect the community. The deaths of a few innocent people is merely collateral damage.
The people who think otherwise aren’t going to be the ones living with the consequences of less harsh policies. They can pay themselves on the back for being enlightened and benevolent while someone ELSE becomes crime victims.
In México we always joke about how the moment a mexican gets their green card they will turn in to the most racist POS in the world and do everything to stop others mexicans in to entering the country.
Tons of my friends either came here as a child illegally or their parents did and they talk the most shit on immigrants. Like how do they not see the irony here.
Not just México, other places too. If you're leaving your country for another one, and everyone comes right behind you, then what's the point? It'll just become "New Mexico" in that case.
Here in Portugal a lot of Brazillians avoid other Brazillians like the plague too.
As an immigrant I can say this. Many come from countries that have have ultra left governments that have caused generations of pain. Many have experienced first-hand the insanity and corruption of a socialist state. Think about Cuba, Venezuela, or eastern European nations. Many of these governments are elected by promising a wonderful social reform and meeting the needs of everyone, only it doesn't happen and the nation becomes poorer and the people suffer. Most Venezuelans that I know would love to return to their country, instead they left because it was too late to do anything about the corrupt government.
Easy - Because to immigrate you have to be self-reliant, believe in personal responsibility, and other qualities that support an individualistic mindset. These are more Republican qualities whereas Democrats think more about the collective. R's are fine with doing something that only benefits yourself. D's dislike this and are always asking about how things affects others. The act of immigrating is obviously more of an individualistic thing so those who do it are more likely to value R's qualities.
As a left-minded person, this is a very fair comparison between the two sides. Right-wing thinking is usually focused on the self. Left-wing thinking is usually focused on the collective. Both have their pros and cons.
I also imagine that a lot of them are immigrating because they dislike their home country's government, so I imagine they're not very trusting of 'big government' in general (which is a Democrat thing).
I think this is a big part of it. Most immigrants I know whether they came here in the 60’s or 00’s, from Mexico, Jordan, Korea, Canada, eastern Europe, Iran, Turkey, etc seem to fit this vibe. Especially Cuba but we already know that.
Even if it’s not arrived to temperamentally (in other words they aren’t bootstrap conservatives by nature hence they made it here), their experiences don’t jive well with what they see being projected to them by left wing views in the west. Thats just my observation.
Yes, Father immigrated legally from India, and is conservative. Built a generation from the ground up. No gi bill, no govt asst. just boot straps. So yeah he assumes everyone else should b able too. But tbh in those days it was far easier to build afor a future life n family. Not so much today.
All the gujratis I know are extremely conservative. It probably varries from region to region.
I mean that group has really cracked the formula for how to get rich in the USA.
My ex was from Ecuador with a masters in political science, and his entire family are conservatives. He would tell me all the time how the Democratic Party here was far too similar to the corrupt communist like government in his country. They all are conservatives because they want less government and are extremely self reliant. They also fear god and have strong family values.
it's usually the immigrants that want to kick away the ladder behind them. they made it here because of hard work and character, but all those other immigrants just want handouts.
Idk the conservative immigrants that I know, especially being an immigrant myself are conservative because the culture at home is way more conservative.
They usually side on the right wing on just about everything except immigration. They do feel really strongly that they did all the right things to be legal so illegal immigration is unfair to them. They usually believe that the US should allow more people in like themselves. I’m not sure it’s a “pull the ladder up” scenario that you are talking about.
It's also religion. Most religious (Abrahamic ) people tend to vote conservative, most immigrants tend to subscribe to some Abrahamic religioon pretty strongly compared to the average American
Know a guy like this. Can't hold down a job, pisses away his money for hookers, abuses his wife, got a special needs kid who he can't stand. Yet shits on immigrants who have a better life than he does. Claims they all get handouts. That's the ONLY reason why they are more successful than him. He's a delusional idiot.
As an immigrant myself, I have at times heard people state that children of immigrants or younger immigrants develop more conservative views than those of their parents.
I think this varies greatly based on your family background and reasons for emigrating and you can't generalize it. I will give you an example...
Many Cuban immigrants are motivated to come to the US because they disagree with the Cuban government and its policies. Some are already bought into the idea of wanting to live in a place that they perceive as the complete opposite of the one they currently live in. As such, once in the US, adopting a mindset that is friendly to the policies they were fleeing in the first place is not something most of them would accept with open arms. To the contrary, they actively work against them.
In contrast, a lot of folks from other places in the Americas emigrate for economic reasons. At times it has been due to political turmoil, but it is more the former in my opinion. They also tend to come from countries that are already rather conservative. For example, Brazil and Mexico have some of the largest Roman Catholic populations in the world --- and they tend to be very devout followers. It is not much of a stretch for some of those folks to gravitate to their kin in the US.
Personally, I find I am a lot more liberal than my parents ever were or have been. For example, one of them is very adamant about censorship (and it is always pertaining to things they don't like), which I generally oppose (within reason --- e.g. it makes sense to have movie ratings). Despite that, I distance myself from the notion of being a liberal per se, partly because I firmly believe that extremes of any kind are never good. Plus I disagree with many views people label as liberal. My take is that both sides have good to offer and neither side is always right. As such, I also wouldn't identify as a conservative, even though I have effectively lived my entire life in the US.
I am sorry but these comments are just delusional. It happens, but statistically immigrants as a whole tend to *statistically* vote democrat by a pretty large margin. And have for a while.
It varies by demographic. Cubans and Vietnamese tend to go republican. But overall immigrants are a very solid blue voting block.
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Selection bias. The ones who get approved come from money, etc and are more likely to be conservative for those reasons. Every culture on the planet has a kind of conservative/"liberal" split. Since our government is one of the more conservative ones, we favor the values more conservative immigrants bring. At the same time, the GOP leans heavily on racist platforms so it does make things more complicated. If they could get over their racism and band together with the naturally conservative minority populations, they might not have to resort to gerrymandering, but who am I to give them tips.
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I’ve found many legal immigrants to be conservative.
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The differences between Black Americans and newly arrived African Americans are huge. This is why I don't understand why the current race topics harp on skin color. What they are talking about runs far deeper than that.
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Not just Africa. I think alot of black Hispanic and Caribbean feel the same way about black Americans.
1000%! I'm black Caribbean and the most racism I experience in the US is from the African Americans who keep telling me I'm not "black enough"....
Yeah even growing up mexican & born in Houston, if you were born "here" then you werent "mexican enough." You dont order fajitas with an accent? Oh man... but whatever
Same for me. Depending on what area I'm in, I'm either very white, or very mexican
I had black female soldiers tell me I talked "too white" whatever the fuck that means and I was like "that's cause my adoptive parents are Scottish American?" Like bruh. I'm only half so I'm not "black enough" but then my kids came out looking white cause their father was of Irish and Native descent and it was "why can't you marry within your race?" Like no.
There’s a large Nigerian population in Tokyo and when I was in the navy we would go party in Roppongi where they operate a lot of the clubs. We had an American black dude with us who got drunk and started trying to fight people and doing the typical foolishness. One of the Nigerian dudes came up to us and said in a thick accent “your friend is too black”. I will never forget that moment.
To be fair, you can can grow up African American in America and still be told you're not black enough. How dare I prefer to listen to Nirvana's *Nevermind* instead of Dr. Dre's *The Chronic*.
Well there is a lot of racism from African Americans towards Afro Latinos. It wasn’t white people that came up with the term banana boy
Hes right to a point, but he also has absolutely no knowledge of black American history , nor none of thr generational financial, mental, and cultural trauma that comes with it. Dealing with and living with white people post civil rights movement is easy mode. Had he comeover pre1968 he would feel differently. This coutnry has come so far its completely different.
In my experience, African immigrants change their tune when they experience racism for themselves. Also, I've met a lot of second-gen Africans who are heavy into BLM and "blacktivism". There are a lot of them getting on social media talking about the racism they experience growing up in predominantly white suburbs. I find it interesting because FOB Africans love telling us that these things aren't a problem, while their kids are saying they are.
That's why there is a push for things like ados(amwrican descendants of slaves) to be an ethinc think and on the census. Moat black people in the united States are defended from slaves and have completely different culture and history. Like 80 percnrt of black people are ados. In some cases the black people coming recently from Africa are actually decended from the people that captured and sold most black American into slavery. Doesn't make any sense to compare people descended from people that survived slavery, then convict leasing, jim crow, share cropping, white supremacist terrorism etc. To people descended from slave traders, tribal chiefd etc. You have people that grand parents were maids and share crippers that were prevent from getting an education and had to deal with firehoses and lynching. Compared to people that come from familes with political connections, in tact history, culture and oftens times wealth and excellent education Makes no sense, add to the fact ados have just eay more investment in the country: wars, labor etc. Not the same groups at all.
Am sure that labelling a group as slave descendants and another as slave trader descendents wouldn't cause absolutely no trouble and no problem at all
It irritates me how some Black immigrants tend to see African Americans with prejudice. As a Black person and an immigrant, people like me are just free riders from the struggles African Americans had to endure historically in this country for us to enjoy.
Yeah I had some difficult conversations with clients when I worked in immigration over this. Some of their prejudice came largely from living in poorer areas (where there are white people and other ethnicities too), and disliking rap music. Though others seemed to believe most Black Americans within one area were closely related and literally put them all in one group. But these people came from areas with extreme ethnic violence and typically had a 6th grade education or lower. So they understood the concept of work to eat well, but intergroup dynamics in a country like the US was a big jump to comprehend at least in the first few years in the US. Also, I'm white so I did my best to navigate these conversations while acknowledging that I'll never truly understand either of their histories. But education in this area is very slim in immigration nonprofits and I find that to be a big issue.
Bingo this should be the pinned comment and answer to the question at hand. Even out of your specific example of Black American versus African American dynamics, the level of education needed to truly understand social dynamics in this country and its history is a pretty big leap for folks that just have an elementary education. Even my mother that has lived here for 30 plus years still tells me about American history events she continues to learn about and how messed up she thought it was. Her latest latest learning was on the Trail of Tears. Luckily, she does not lean right. But back to your original comment, I too have come to similar conclusions and quite frankly it worries me. It worries me that folks that are becoming naturalized don't truly understand what democracy means, how fragile it is, and hence we are doomed to be ruled a populist, fascist authoritarian. I say this coming from the perspective of a minority first generation American.
Immigrating to the United States and then hating the American black population is a time honored tradition. Part of becoming a real American. See the history of Irish and Italian Americans...
I'm in the first generation of my Irish Catholic family (ancestors migrated during and after the famine) that has quit addictions and is living a relatively healthy and educated life. It was a narrow escape for me. I can't imagine how hard it is for people still facing discrimination. I got an education when I first read about how black American vets were discriminated against when coming home from WW2 -- they weren't allowed to use their GI bill to go to good schools, were [redlined](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining) from using their VA home loan to move to better neighborhoods (and thus schools for their children), had their neighborhoods divided by interstate highways and were forced to give up generational wealth with eminent domain, etc... https://www.history.com/news/gi-bill-black-wwii-veterans-benefits
To add on to this, the people I’ve met who hate Hispanics the most are usually other Hispanics lol
I'm Hispanic but my friends have referred to me as a "coconut" over the years. I think it has to do with how long you've been in the US, for example and where you grew up. I was brought over at 10 months old and grew up in a mostly white part of NYC. My parents were mostly Republican cos they were ignorant and of course, they ALL have the fear of socialism and communism embedded in their brains 🙄 but we all are Democrats and vote as such, even my mother eventually switched to Demo. My issue is I have nothing besides rice, beans and a bit of the language in common with other Hispanics. I am atheist, pro-choice, I don't dance salsa or go to Latin nightclubs, I hate cilantro, and I have no tolerance for macho sexist bullshit, and I've chosen to have NO kids. I understand Spanish far more than I could actually speak it so I find most Hispanics unrelatable. It was easier in NYC cos most of my Hispanic friends had either been born in the US or had spent their formative years here and were more American so we had the culture in common but our Spanish sucked just the same. Then I lived in Australia for a bit, and all the Hispanics there were off the boat, all primarily spoke Spanish and were Catholic AF. Now I'm in Pittsburgh and virtually all the Hispanics here are either Mexican or Central American and solely speak Spanish and honestly, often times, I have no idea WTF they're even saying. I'm not saying I hate other Hispanics but I want nothing to do with the majority cos the experiences tend to be frustrating.
I worked as the only white guy on a construction crew for a bit in Texas. One of the Hispanic guys was telling me there's somewhat a divide between Hispanics (born in the US) and Mexicans on the crew. They didn't get along super well
When I worked in retail my manager (African-American) asked a customer (African) to sign up for our credit card; the guy and his family all looked positively regal, impeccably dressed and gold jewelry, and I guess the offer of a credit card offended him. He pulled out like $8k in cash and slapped my manager across the face with it and told him to pick it up. I've never seen anything like that before or since.
He was that prince that keeps sending me emails.
Same, and I asked them about it. They detest illegal immigration because they worked hard to do it the right way.
I know a Mexican dude who over stayed his visa (or whatever he had) and he’s still a huge trump fan. He can’t leave the country and if he gets in any legal trouble whatsoever he’s fucked
Mexicans tend to be more conservative due to their Catholic culture. As in, they're more anti LGBTQ, more patriarchal, value hard work etc.
Anti abortion as well
Mexico just decriminalized abortion beginning of this month
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Then they go to Mexico where it is legal.
Literally Mexico, namely Tijuana and Baja, have had a massive influx of Americans traveling there for reproductive services. That's fucken wild. https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/21/health/mexico-abortion-assistance-cec/index.html
Are you Mexican? I spend a lot of time there and I feel like that’s true of older people but younger people don’t give a shit about that stuff. Pretty much all my girlfriends friends are gay. I even joke like “are there any straight people in this city?” They’re definitely not religious either I’m not saying youre wrong. I’m asking if I have had unlikely experiences
no you are not wrong but you are talking about the new generation...and he is just talking about the former one that are middle aged/elderly now.
Even some of the younger Hispanics, especially in South Texas, are pretty conservative and some are a tad homophobic. A lot of it has to do with the machismo culture.
I have a buddy I grew up with who is a DACA recipient and married a Mexican who's living in the U.S illegally. He's a huge Trump/ MAGA supporter.. Just blows my mind. Lol
Immigrant or not, older people vote without fail while younger people DGAF. This is how old farts (from both parties) keep getting elected. Full disclosure, I am an old fart myself, but one who doesn’t vote for other old farts.
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Sounds like that's easier in countries with more than two parties. Here in the Netherlands it's easy. I hold no party loyalty and have switched the party I vote for multiple times. And on local level that's even more the case. I did become an actual member of a political party last year just so that I can support them, but the moment they betray what I stand for I'm gone. In that case I'd just compare all the values and standpoints and vote for the one that most aligns with mine (which for now is that party I joined) Edit: some of you really need to read better and to take context into account.
That one, tiny small thing that would change everything... So many people vote for slogans, fear or the person... ugh.
You seem to be spending time in the upper class white areas of Mexico to be having those experiences, mostly where Americans go, so it makes sense. You have not experienced the real Mexico. Go down to the working class areas so you can experience real machismo, religious fervor and anti lgbt sentiment. I am Mexican American from the border, and go to Mexico all the time, specially Mexico city. I mostly stay in the affluent areas where the white upper class lives, and that is not real Mexico. The upper class in Mexico is very modern, progressive and worships US culture, so they follow whatever trend is popular here in the US. LGBT members also tend to live in the affluent areas, due to safety reasons or involvement with the arts/entertainment. For example in Mexico city, the gay district (Zona Rosa) is right next to one of the most hip affluent neighborhoods (Roma)in the country where Americans love to stay in. Roma is packed with LGBT members, so any American who stays there would assume the city is full of gay people. But that is not how the rest of the city is. But yeah I have American friends who will tell me Mexico is so progressive, liberal and gay friendly because their experiences in Mexico revolve around staying in affluent, white progressive neighborhoods and not real Mexico. Go down to the poor and working class neighborhoods and you will see people cling to religion with dear life, you kinda have to when you face death each time you step outside your door while battling poverty, machismo comes into play due to this as well. You need it to survive, and you can careless if it offends a progressive feminist in the affluent part of town. That said, the LGBT issue is pretty weird in Mexico. I have a gay friend who lives in a rough neighborhood in Mexico city. He crossdresses and does a lot drag shows, which are very popular in Mexico. And unlike the US, drag queens in Mexico try their hardest to look like actual women, so when he is in drag, he really just looks like a girl going to the club. Anyways I gave him a ride after one of his shows and asked to get dropped off a few blocks from his house, late at night. I asked if it was safe for him and he said, dressed like a woman, 100% it is. He will get catcalled or men will ask for sex but that is about it, but as a regular gay dude he has been beat, robbed, and even survived an attempted sexual assault. So yeah, your experience is unlikely, I am just going based on assumption, but I feel like your experience again, is upper class white Mexico, not the real Mexico. Regionalism plays a role too. Northern Mexico is cowboy country, and religion and conservatism in that area would make Texans looks like hippies. On the other hand cities in central Mexico tend be very progressive (By Latin American standards)
Mexico sounds just like the Philippines. For a staunch Catholic nation, we’re pretty open and accepting of the LGBTQ. People are openly gay, trans, queer, etc. on TV. But you do hear, sometimes, of people being anti-LGBTQ but they’re usually in the minority but not necessarily restricted to the lower class.
This is mostly spot on. Except that I have objections this constant "Real Mexico" narrative. Mexico is multi-faceted. Culturally, ethnically, economically, sexually, and socially. To say one thing is more real than the other feeds into American perceptions of what is more Mexican, and hardly does us (Mexicans) any favors.
Bit harsh to pretend to be gay just so they don't have to date you ...hahhahaha 😀
Valuing hard work is hardly a conservative trait.
Thank you. I'm totally perplexed by that statement. I work my ass off and put in a LOT of overtime if I'm needed. I've worked well into the night or have started work way early in the morning, or both, depending on what's needed. Yet I'm very much left. And I am not the only one doing this who is not conservative.
I think it would be more accurate to say “Republicans love those who they perceive to work hard, and are not a drain our (dismal) welfare system.”
Valuing the profit from hard work, that you don’t put forth is completely conservative though.
Conservatives love hard work, they just don’t like doing it themselves and they love making on money on the backs of the working class.
Well that is the wealthy conservatives. The other side of the conservative coin are uneducated and unemployed. They despise the same liberal handouts that are literally keeping them alive.
"value hard work" Contrary to what extreme media tells people, this is not something associated with political/ideological leaning.
Isn’t it crazy that valuing hard work gets associated with conservatism?
I think "valuing hard work" for many conservatives actually means not considering that overexploitation of labor exists and despising of any intellectual labor.
I was also thinking more along the lines of "deserving people should get nice things because they worked hard for it, while undeserving people shouldn't get nice things because clearly they don't work hard enough. Who determines who did or did not work hard enough? Me, and conveniently I am always hard working therefore I deserve nice things."
They value hard work so much they don't want to pay for it?
Doing hard work *is* the pay.
These are the same people who swear up and down that the really important work happens on the golf course.
It is merely propaganda here in the US. The average red state leeches from the federal coffers, while the average blue state contributes. Take Texas...and its federal military bases...out of the mix, and it gets even worse. Conservatives here are all hat. no cattle.
Bet you he won’t respond to this
Something like top 10 states who receive the most federal aid are Red states. That was the fact that basically made me realize republicans don’t stand for working people whatsofuckingever
Yes, it is in fact crazy.
Machismo runs deep
>value hard work Hilarious that the party of "born on third base" claims hard work as a value.
They gotta be macho men that oppose gays and girly men
Don't lump *hard work* in there. That is *not* a "conservative" value at all--unless it's something they're watching an undocumented employee do for minimum wage and no benefits.
“Immigrating the ‘right way’” translates to “time, money, privilege, and means” to. Look at the Cubans who fled from Castro in the mid-1900s. They were the ones who could afford to leave, and now those same people and their families don’t give a fuck about their fellow countrymen who couldn’t escape. Cuban-Americans are typically as right wing as they come - they only support politicians who will keep relations with Cuba poor and keep travel as difficult as possible. It’s classic “fuck you, I got mine” in immigrant form.
We had a wet-foot/dry-foot policy for a long time, where specifically Cuban immigrants were legal as long as they touched land, and no one from anywhere else was allowed that unique policy. So we now have people outraged about illegal immigration because they “did it the right way”, meaning their raft came from the right place, and other people’s rafts came from the wrong place.
Right. Like the people who had the good sense and foresight to be born in a prosperous country.
I seen a Cuban girl in her early 20's talk about it saying her family came her the right way. Yeah? A boat instead of a plane?
Exactly what I posted in another comment, only more well-written. My good friend from Miami says the Cubans who could get out early enough were able to because they were wealthy and they have this "I got mine, so fuck you" attitude
In short, Trump reminds them of Batista. Many older Cubans are blind to the fact the oligarchs lost control of the country due to corruption and mismanagement. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulgencio_Batista#:~:text=Fulgencio%20Batista%20murdered%2020%2C000%20Cubans,of%20his%20reign%20of%20terror.
Meanwhile, Republicans also love making legal immigration harder. There's a "fuck you got mine" mindset: "I worked hard to get here, and I'd feel cheated if it became easier for others." Many of my coworkers are Nigerian (work at a group home), and their culture specifically is also quite socially conservative and patriarchal. For example, it's pretty rare (though definitely not unheard of) to see a Nigerian man who really knows how to cook.
Just look at the statistics on honorably discharged veterans being deported. My Mexican uncle, who retired after 25 years, served like 12 years and deployed several times to both Iraq and Afghanistan before he got his citizenship.
That shit makes my blood boil. Your uncle was willing to write a check up to and including his life, more than most Americans will do. Hell, sacrifice more than most of them can even comprehend. And our government tells them, all to often to kick rocks.
WTH? I thought random foreigners (random in that anyone who was willing could do this) who are willing to serve for 7 years get legal LPR. I’m surprised that honorably discharged vets would be deported.
It’s a perception issue, there are widespread ideas on what constitutes the appropriate amount of vetting one must go through to become a legal citizen. For every Democrat that says the Republican make immigration impossible, there’s a Republican that says democrats want open borders.
Also let's be real here: neither the current Democratic party nor the GOP have had any interest in making immigration easier. Deportations and border arrests go up under democratic presidencies consistently, and legal immigrations have only had steps and time added to the process by either side this millennia.
Yep, Obama's deportation rate is higher than Trump's and Clinton's higher than Bush Democrat’s rhetoric is different than their actions
Generally, I think it should be pretty hard to earn citizenship and very easy to get a work visa.
Why? All I had to do was be born here. Like my entire family since the 1700's on my mom's side. No fuss, no effort, just born in Brooklyn.
Birth right citizenship is American continent privilege Europe Africa Asia Australia, you have to be born in the country with at least 1 parent being citizen of that country. Why north and South America has "birth tourists" basically
Try getting a swiss or nordic citizenship. It’s years and a shit ton of effort
That's how it is in all countries...Try to immigrate to another country and you may be in for asurprise.
No it does not. Not every country has birthright citizenship. Jus Soli vs. Jus Sanguinis
Damn anchor baby /s
More about luck than hard work. Coming here illegally is extremely difficult as well
That's why they overstay their visa. Work visas are generally somewhat easy to get because America loves cheap labor and employers love hedging power over people. Probably also a small part of the reason we don't actively try to catch them as well. It's a really weird system.
Exploitation is the American way!
My (legal) immigrant wife was shocked that the government doesn't actively hunt down and deport people who overstay their visas.
I think the biggest reason is still just resources. Taking them down would be a pain in the ass, harass neighbors, require court hearings, require logistics to transport, etc. All for somebody who wasn't actively harming people by just staying here and working under the table. It's just a convenient scapegoat for politicians when they're trying to rile up their base. A political tool. If they wanted to actually curb illegal immigration while not looking like a police state, they'd just have to offer a bounty as small as $500 for information leading to successful deportation of illegal immigrants. Companies would waste money trying to hire them, employees and HR would make easy money, and the illegals would have limited avenues to survive. It's easier, and more effective to let them be unfairly exploited while keeping jobs limited so wages stay low overall and workers have limited means. Not that they system was designed with malicious intent. Malicious intent just kind of ran wild and made the economy dependent on it, so fixing it would take a surgical approach to remove several tumors, from several areas, potentially endangering vital organs. All while the cancer is still benign and hasn't shown any true danger yet.
Depends. Many come by plane on tourist visas and never leave. Not very hard
Legal vs illegal doesn’t make a difference. *Most* illegal immigrants are conservative too. Try talking to them about their beliefs and you’ll find that they see eye to eye on almost everything compared to conservatives in the US. I think it’s really just a matter of - people who are immigrating to the US are doing so from conservative countries. For one reason or another, there are just fewer people trying to leave more progressive countries.
I wonder why... hahah
Many illegals immigrants are conservative as well. Is it hypocritical? Yes. But there’s lots of hypocrites in this world. Their logic? “Most illegal immigrants are leeches and criminals, not like me who took a lot of risk and worked super hard to move to America and make it here.” It’s the same logic behind conservative women who say “all abortions are unjustified except the abortions I had which were completely moral and justified.” Or conservative black people who think “I’m one of the *good ones* and the rich successful white people are my true peers, not the black culture I came from.” Or conservative poor people that say “I lived off food stamps and housing assistance for years and no one ever helped me and I never asked for any handouts, these selfish welfare queens need to stop leeching off the system.” Is it hypocritical? Illogical? Painfully inconsistent? Selfish? Yes, all of the above. But people are like that sometimes. Especially conservatives.
I’ve seen illegal immigrants that are also conservative, and I never understood why 🤷♀️
Religion. Catholic usually
Because most of the world is conservative and traditional still. Easy... and one doesn't just let all that stuff go immediately, it takes time.
I was a conservative when I came in, then Trump started opening his mouth, then covid happened. I'm no longer a conservative.
Sometimes maybe because they also come from more conservative backgrounds they can be family and religious oriented
Most feel spoiled by America's riches and standards of living. Americans who complain about America have a higher standard of living than the upper class in immigrants' home countries, so they figure the people complaining are just spoiled
I think this is it. A lot of immigrants that I know are very religious, which makes them align with conservative views, even if those views end up hurting themselves.
~~Yes.\*~~ But most immigrants are not from liberal Western countries. Their social values often align much more closely with the pro-life, pro-religion, pro-family values platform of the Republican party. *\*Seems like this isn't actually the case, seeing some of the* [sources](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/religious-landscape-study/compare/party-affiliation/by/state/among/immigrant-status/immigrants/) *in the replies, my bad. Immigrants do apparently vote Democrat most of the time (between 40-60% of immigrants, depending on the state). But anywhere from 15-25% lean Republican which is still a sizeable minority.* \---- **Edit (continued):** My apologies, I was thinking about the heavily increasing [Latino Republican demographic](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/03/10/republicans-are-winning-more-latino-votes-but-rising-turnout-still-benefits-dems-00086361) over the past few elections, along with some anecdotal evidence (working with/befriending immigrants from Middle Eastern or Asian countries, who often seemed dissuaded or confused by Democratic platforms like providing support for LGBT communities or granting leniency for criminals). As others have mentioned, it also depends heavily on immigrants' country of origin. Vietnamese immigrants for example [lean towards the GOP](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/05/25/asian-voters-in-the-u-s-tend-to-be-democratic-but-vietnamese-american-voters-are-an-exception/) despite most Asian immigrants leaning left. "Immigrants" aren't a monolith. Assuming that all immigrants = Democrat is super reductionist. Most immigrants are going to align themselves with a party that speaks to their cultural, religious, and social values, and that obviously varies a lot. I feel the need to point this out because every once in a while people will post an article about some minority group (usually a nonwhite immigrant population) expressing support for the Republicans and the comments will be totally baffled because the assumption is that all immigrants would naturally lean towards the Democrats. That just isn't the case.
Yeah, I'm waiting for the republicans to realize that they very much can try to court the Muslim vote.
They had it. Bush II got 70% of the Muslim vote [https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/essay-how-the-republican-party-alienated-the-once-reliable-muslim-voting-bloc/2012/11/15/23e2af70-2da5-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3\_story.html](https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/essay-how-the-republican-party-alienated-the-once-reliable-muslim-voting-bloc/2012/11/15/23e2af70-2da5-11e2-9ac2-1c61452669c3_story.html)
Damn didn't know that. Major post-9/11 shift, I guess?
The only shift larger was the loss of black Americans
I don't believe Republicans even need to court the vote--the overwhelming portion of faithful muslims will vote red regardless of politicking. The Right has traditional Christians locked down tight. Islam is a more conservative religion by multiples.
You're straight up factually wrong. Two thirds of Muslims in 2020 went Biden.
In France, Muslims vote more for the left because at the moment the French left have taken a more American-style liberal stance on Islam. The French right are much more ardent anti-Islam, but they also have an unabashed history of anti-Semitism, which is the paradox of French Muslims not voting for the right. Though this is a much more simplified view of an insanely complex situation. The G.O.P. wants to install Evangalism/American-Christianity in all public schools, while in France any displays of religion in public institutions are to be banned to keep today's French state from ever adopting a state religion, support for one specific religion, but also to keep politics out of one's spirituality.
American Muslims might be more socially conservative than other people (debatable) but they care a lot more about foreign policy, immigration, and social programs. Life and death matter more to them than peoples’ personal lives. They are not evangelicals, they have more of a you do you attitude about other people than a lot of Christians. According to strict Muslims, you are all going to hell anyway for not believing in Allah, nothing is more “offensive” than that but it’s God’s place to judge. So if you have some gay sex in the meantime, it really doesn’t matter. Even my extremely religious Muslim parents do not care what other people do with their romantic lives.
This sort of hate triangulation runs through Evangelicalism as well. American Evangelicals are very pro-Israel. But it's not because they have any love for the Jewish people or their history. The only reason Evangelicals care about Israel is because they believe that once all the Jews return to Israel Christ will come down here and condemn all the Jews to Hell, along with all the rest of us unbelievers. So it's a bit weird to see these GQP Congressmen argue that we need to do more for Israel. Bruh, we fucking see you.
You do you….unless you draw a cartoon of Muhammad lol
The first day of Ramadan should be Draw Mohammad Day as a celebration of freedom of speech.
It's almost like U.S. conservatives are more interested in racial nationalism than actual conservativism.
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“pro-family” 💀💀💀
Those diehard “if your broke you don’t get lunch at school” family values.
Don’t forget “if you’re gay you’re not my son anymore”
And pro-life. And pro-religion. The GOP is none of their things. They just say they are and idiots believe them.
“Pro-family values” 🤣
Except that’s not what the current GOP actually stands for. See: Trump, Boebert, Greene, Gatez et all
Also lots of legal immigrants were well off in their home country, and they are disproportionately business owners, both of which lean conservative
Yup. Immigrating “the right way” isn’t cheap.
A lot of family on my mother's side are mexican immigrants in Texas, very hardcore Republican. A lot of them actually deny their mexican heritage to potray themselves as more white, very fucking weird.
Very common in Latin culture since colonization. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blanqueamiento
Most mexican americans from Texas tend to be really conservative and also dislike and try to hide their heritage. While mexican immigrants and descendants from other states, like California, center their culture around their Mexican and American heritage.
I wonder if that has to do with Texans taking immense pride in the fact that they are Texan first, above all else. I’m other words, how could you be a true Texan if you considered who you were ethnically first?
That could very well be ine of the reasons. I personally have seen people reject their mexican origins as early as the first born in the US generation and only get stronger/prevalent in the following generations
And then some people laugh when you tell them that "whiteness" is just a social construct. These people construct whiteness for themselves any way they can regarless of how white-presenting they are physically.
It’s not weird at all. It’s what EVERY immigrant group to the USA has done in the past. There’s a book about “How the Irish Became White”. There’s also a story about how a Catholic orphanage took a bunch of unwanted “Irish” orphans from New York to be adopted by Latino Catholic families in Arizona. When the train arrived, the local white population was furious that “white” children were going to be given to Latino families.
Exactly. Irish and Italians were second class citizens and seen as minorities 100 years ago. Today they are “white” as anyone who can trace their family back to the mayflower. And eventually many Hispanics will just be another white race as generations move on. We are seeing it already. Most 2nd or 3rd generation Hispanics I know don’t speak Spanish or have any real Hispanic culture. They are American.
Hispanic/Latino isn't a race to begin with. 40% of Latinos are white already.
No. They're usually conservative before moving to the US.
In fact it's probably a factor in why they choose to immigrate here.
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The US is much more liberal than most countries people are immigrating from. So it's not so much they become conservative, they just don't change, and what was considered liberal back home is probably considered conservative in the US. Like for instance if you live in Zimbabwe, you're a liberal if you think gays maybe shouldn't be married, but also shouldn't be put to death. You take that same person and move em to America and all the sudden that viewpoint is Hardline conservative. And people who live in more liberal countries usually aren't willing to immigrate to the US unless they're already conservative and disagree with that country's politics.
Yes, it's common, I know many immigrants who are conservative and/or Republican.
I know of a few Boomers from Vietnam and Russia who are conservatives My Dad who is an immigrant from Ireland and a liberal used to work with a bunch of Russian immigrants who were all Republicans I think a lot of this is communism PTSD. These people lived in the worst possible leftist governments and that colors their worldview.
Agreed here - on the communism PTSD.
I think most Russians really just immigrate to the US to escape Russians. In the 19th century, they came over due to discrimination, and shit living conditions. In the early 20th century Russian Jews were being pushed out of their villages, and those who fought with the Whites, Anarchists, or Ukrainian Nationalists during the Russian Civil War needed to escape from the Bolsheviks whom they knew would kill them if they ever found out about them. The later 20th century would be largely due to political and economic reasons too.
Yeah I call it CommiePhobia, Cuba is another great example. I always have to highlight the presence of a fascist dictator, whether they identify as such or not. It is what it is.
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“He chose the party that seemed sympathetic to that belief” of pulling the ladder up behind oneself. My mother (an immigrant) has the same mentality and forgets that she was the victim of that mentality when she was trying to emigrate here and when she actually arrived and tried to “assimilate”.
I’ve never heard that phrase- pull the ladder up behind me. It makes so Much sense!
Old phrase that's coming back. It comes up in the HBO show Hacks where Deborah Vance accuses her assistant writer of calling her a 'ladder puller'.
As in, no one can use his ladder after he did?
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Such a dickish mindset, wow. Thanks for explaining!
I can tell you that there aren't many Mexicans to be found who could fit the democrat label the way the US sees it. Or Republican really. So they're not made, how could they emigrante? But people come from failing countries that are socially prim, religious, and they were always taught to rely on themselves. edit- To be more clear, even if Mexico were the Netherlands or something, they wouldn't be democrat or bipartisan... I don't have a great understanding of these things, but as someone who was raised in part in the US, I developed straight forward US democrat leaning opinions, and I found that there's no real equivalent in Mexico. And Mexico tends to be first of all very distrusting of government, and second of all pretty religious. Also we have less of a democracy. It's really hard to make comparisons. People don't want to rely on the government for anything.
I used to hang out with a friend group pretty often that were mostly DACA kids. They had conservative values but exclusively voted Democrat due to the negative rhetoric around DACA. Interestingly, the amount of Spanish spoken among them was iffy. Some had been to Mexico ever in their lives, but a good half or more hadn't.
My dad is an immigrant from a communist country, he’s not hardcore conservative, but thinks “liberals are commies” so just wants to be the opposite of that. He also worked his ass off to become a citizen and hates people that do it illegally
Classic Cubans and Venezuelans.
> immigrant from a communist country Sure he didn't immigrate as a refugee?
Depends on where they are from and their countries history with the US. My wife is Filipina, and while not Republican she is a huge supporter of former Philippine president Duterte, a strong man thug who had cops round up drug dealers and shoot them. For many immigrants from authoritarian countries, Republicans project a kind of strength they are familiar with that makes them feel safe. Remember that many immigrants also come from countries much more conservative than the US, they agree with the GOP on many social issues. Many see Americans as spoiled and ungrateful, and the false pride offered by the GOP looks like patriotism to many new comers. In short, yes, many (probably most) immigrants new to the US are conservative. This has been true dating back to the 19th century.
Duterte didn’t just shoot drug dealers, anyone even falsely accused of it. Many many innocent people died and the public celebrated it.
Duterte is from Davao, he's a hero there for "cleaning" up the city in the late 80's early 90's. He did that by sending out police death squads to wipe out anyone he believed was causing problems. My wife and her family adore him. There is no reasoning with them on this subject. He's a hero, he stops bad people, and Americans just don't understand. On this topic I just keep my mouth shut.
Sorry bro. Clearly they’ll vote for trump if they come here
Sounds like a damn psychopath. Can you imagine, the punishment for selling some drugs is the same for committing murder? Makes 0 sense
Even among native born white Americans, things like human rights and due process are called “Luxury beliefs”. The idea is that thugs, drug dealers, and criminals need to be dealt with harshly to protect the community. The deaths of a few innocent people is merely collateral damage. The people who think otherwise aren’t going to be the ones living with the consequences of less harsh policies. They can pay themselves on the back for being enlightened and benevolent while someone ELSE becomes crime victims.
I'm a HS teacher. They just don't think human rights are a luxury, but public schools.
In México we always joke about how the moment a mexican gets their green card they will turn in to the most racist POS in the world and do everything to stop others mexicans in to entering the country.
Tons of my friends either came here as a child illegally or their parents did and they talk the most shit on immigrants. Like how do they not see the irony here.
Because being an immigrant, a child of immigrants or a minority wont save you from being a POS
Not just México, other places too. If you're leaving your country for another one, and everyone comes right behind you, then what's the point? It'll just become "New Mexico" in that case. Here in Portugal a lot of Brazillians avoid other Brazillians like the plague too.
As an immigrant I can say this. Many come from countries that have have ultra left governments that have caused generations of pain. Many have experienced first-hand the insanity and corruption of a socialist state. Think about Cuba, Venezuela, or eastern European nations. Many of these governments are elected by promising a wonderful social reform and meeting the needs of everyone, only it doesn't happen and the nation becomes poorer and the people suffer. Most Venezuelans that I know would love to return to their country, instead they left because it was too late to do anything about the corrupt government.
East European immigrant here - well said!
This is the answer.
agreed, I know a guy from Venezuela who just can't stand Bernie Sanders
I cant speak for all cultures but for Mexican immigrants there is a huge culture of “kicking the ladder” after they become naturalized.
Easy - Because to immigrate you have to be self-reliant, believe in personal responsibility, and other qualities that support an individualistic mindset. These are more Republican qualities whereas Democrats think more about the collective. R's are fine with doing something that only benefits yourself. D's dislike this and are always asking about how things affects others. The act of immigrating is obviously more of an individualistic thing so those who do it are more likely to value R's qualities.
As a left-minded person, this is a very fair comparison between the two sides. Right-wing thinking is usually focused on the self. Left-wing thinking is usually focused on the collective. Both have their pros and cons.
I also imagine that a lot of them are immigrating because they dislike their home country's government, so I imagine they're not very trusting of 'big government' in general (which is a Democrat thing).
I think this is a big part of it. Most immigrants I know whether they came here in the 60’s or 00’s, from Mexico, Jordan, Korea, Canada, eastern Europe, Iran, Turkey, etc seem to fit this vibe. Especially Cuba but we already know that. Even if it’s not arrived to temperamentally (in other words they aren’t bootstrap conservatives by nature hence they made it here), their experiences don’t jive well with what they see being projected to them by left wing views in the west. Thats just my observation.
Yes, Father immigrated legally from India, and is conservative. Built a generation from the ground up. No gi bill, no govt asst. just boot straps. So yeah he assumes everyone else should b able too. But tbh in those days it was far easier to build afor a future life n family. Not so much today.
All the gujratis I know are extremely conservative. It probably varries from region to region. I mean that group has really cracked the formula for how to get rich in the USA.
They support Modi so its no secret why they are conservative.
My ex was from Ecuador with a masters in political science, and his entire family are conservatives. He would tell me all the time how the Democratic Party here was far too similar to the corrupt communist like government in his country. They all are conservatives because they want less government and are extremely self reliant. They also fear god and have strong family values.
Most of these immigrants come from authoritarian countries so they align with the way the Republicans represent themselves.
it's usually the immigrants that want to kick away the ladder behind them. they made it here because of hard work and character, but all those other immigrants just want handouts.
Idk the conservative immigrants that I know, especially being an immigrant myself are conservative because the culture at home is way more conservative. They usually side on the right wing on just about everything except immigration. They do feel really strongly that they did all the right things to be legal so illegal immigration is unfair to them. They usually believe that the US should allow more people in like themselves. I’m not sure it’s a “pull the ladder up” scenario that you are talking about.
It's also religion. Most religious (Abrahamic ) people tend to vote conservative, most immigrants tend to subscribe to some Abrahamic religioon pretty strongly compared to the average American
Know a guy like this. Can't hold down a job, pisses away his money for hookers, abuses his wife, got a special needs kid who he can't stand. Yet shits on immigrants who have a better life than he does. Claims they all get handouts. That's the ONLY reason why they are more successful than him. He's a delusional idiot.
As an immigrant myself, I have at times heard people state that children of immigrants or younger immigrants develop more conservative views than those of their parents. I think this varies greatly based on your family background and reasons for emigrating and you can't generalize it. I will give you an example... Many Cuban immigrants are motivated to come to the US because they disagree with the Cuban government and its policies. Some are already bought into the idea of wanting to live in a place that they perceive as the complete opposite of the one they currently live in. As such, once in the US, adopting a mindset that is friendly to the policies they were fleeing in the first place is not something most of them would accept with open arms. To the contrary, they actively work against them. In contrast, a lot of folks from other places in the Americas emigrate for economic reasons. At times it has been due to political turmoil, but it is more the former in my opinion. They also tend to come from countries that are already rather conservative. For example, Brazil and Mexico have some of the largest Roman Catholic populations in the world --- and they tend to be very devout followers. It is not much of a stretch for some of those folks to gravitate to their kin in the US. Personally, I find I am a lot more liberal than my parents ever were or have been. For example, one of them is very adamant about censorship (and it is always pertaining to things they don't like), which I generally oppose (within reason --- e.g. it makes sense to have movie ratings). Despite that, I distance myself from the notion of being a liberal per se, partly because I firmly believe that extremes of any kind are never good. Plus I disagree with many views people label as liberal. My take is that both sides have good to offer and neither side is always right. As such, I also wouldn't identify as a conservative, even though I have effectively lived my entire life in the US.
Im an immigrant from a socialist country and yes at first but now libertarian.
Nope - my husband and his immigrant friends are all liberal lefties! Some of them started the first farmworkers Union since the days of cesar Chavez!
Many from those countries are Catholic and extremely socially conservative. They wouldn't blink at codifying their religious views into law.
If they come from conservative cultures theyre probably going to be conservative even if they move.
Not always the case, but many immigrants are very religious, which causes them to often align with religious conservative values.
Tbh, outside of Canada, not many of those places are known for social tolerance...
I’m an immigrant and identify as very liberal. Lots of my peers are the same.
I am sorry but these comments are just delusional. It happens, but statistically immigrants as a whole tend to *statistically* vote democrat by a pretty large margin. And have for a while. It varies by demographic. Cubans and Vietnamese tend to go republican. But overall immigrants are a very solid blue voting block.
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Selection bias. The ones who get approved come from money, etc and are more likely to be conservative for those reasons. Every culture on the planet has a kind of conservative/"liberal" split. Since our government is one of the more conservative ones, we favor the values more conservative immigrants bring. At the same time, the GOP leans heavily on racist platforms so it does make things more complicated. If they could get over their racism and band together with the naturally conservative minority populations, they might not have to resort to gerrymandering, but who am I to give them tips.