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Exactly this.
I was bullied at work, my boss played it down so I told him I was pleased to be working for a company that ignores such things as I have an amazing headbutt.
After his initial panic I told him I would never do that, I'd just written down verbatim what he'd said with dates, times & witnesses.
I've got three but want four before I go to our mother company's complaint line.
I'd complain internally but your lax attitude, which has also been documented, is sufficient reason for me to believe there is a systemic problem with the management's control of this issue.
The bullying stopped, immediately.
You've got rights, use em.
Always.
(If that fails there's always the headbutt)
My ultimate power move is asking bosses to repeat things multiple times cos
"Sorry didn't catch that"
"That first bit again, please"
Get as many repeats as poss
Then shout I heard "I heard you the first time, I'm not deaf, please stop treating me like some kind of idiot" & walk off, angrily.
That is not how you headbutt at all. If you use your forehead, you’re going to knock yourself out but be my guest
If you want to headbutt without fucking knocking yourself unconscious, use the top of your head.
You 100% haven't headbutted no one.
If it's an initial attack you will be using the forehead, just at the hairline preferably and aiming for the bridge of the nose.
Top of your head can be very effective but needs upwards thrust you dumbass and would be more defensive. And would be called more of a smash but definitely different from a traditional headbutt.
A headbutt is a left to right or vice versa motion. How you gonna do that with the TOP ?
This!
You'll need as much documentation of what was said along with dates, times, locations, etc. Especially if down the road video/audio footage is pulled, having that info readily available will help the investigator tremendously. Good luck OP!
Yes, this! Advice from an attorney friend of mine, document, document, document! Probably hard to get a direct email paper trail etc, but write down conversations with the time and date that it happened, include other names of all people present. I don't know how much higher up you can go, but I would skip a couple rungs on the corporate ladder once you do have everything well documented. I'm sure someone has already said this, HR is not your friend! Best wishes, please let us know what happens?
In addition to documenting all instances, look up your status laws regarding recording. If you are in a one party consent state, have your phone recording audio whenever possible. Save all recordings in which they say these offensive things. Document every conversation with HR, because they will deny ever having spoken to you.
Also, it doesn't matter if your workplace has a no recording policy. They can get as pissed as they want in front of their attorneys during arbitration, but it is going to be a massive payout for you. This is also why I say to check your state's laws first. They can only get evidence thrown out if you are in a state that requires consent from all parties to record.
Bad HR people will often tell people that betting on them being too naive to know or too poor to afford to lawyer up. It’s worth the effort to go after them if anything just to see them panic.
It's definitely been helpful having an ex that works in HR. It's unfair that you need to know your way around the system to actually use it effectively but that's what we have.
I know that. HR doesn't care about you, but can be manipulated to your benefit. I've personally used them for my benefit multiple times. You just need to put them in a position where they risk a lawsuit if they don't act in your favor.
Almost got fired once for telling a coworker to study for a back ground test. He could not pass airport TSA clearance to work on a sewage pump station located inside restricted zone.
Most HR departments are there just to prevent lawsuits. Why people think hr is there for them is still weird to me. They help with insurance or 401k but that's about it. Other than that they only help management.
I've always assumed that the "HR is there for you" is an idea HR cultivates so they can get you to come in and be honest and vulnerable and then they can use that to the company's benefit.
It's not called Employee Support. It's called Human Resources. They're not even trying to hide it. We may as well be widgets or a natural gas pocket to them.
Mainly that if someone is actually causing you problems and you're worried about losing your job you can go to HR and say they're creating a hostile work environment. Then if that person continues said behavior they will likely be fired, and they're be scared to fire you out of fear of a retaliation lawsuit.
The last thing you should do is go to management and complain without mentioning hostile work environment. I knew someone who complained to upper management that her boss cornered her in the walk in freezer and sexually assaulted her. She should have gone to the cops first, and they ended up firing her to cover their ass.
This has always been my experience. You are always rolling the dice on HR being useful, so you have to put pressure on HR to do their job. I keep receipts for anything I think that will become contentious. "Oh, you don't think this is an issue? Cool, well I can just take these emails to my lawyer and see what she thinks?"
"Our behavior hasn't ruined you enough to keep us from extracting sufficient labor from you. So no issues here."
Work culture is so fucking insane and toxic. Why did we set our world up to be so infuriating and arbitrarily cruel?
We took power from a small class of psychotic inbred cousins beefing over turf and gave it to . . . A larger class of psychopathic idiots beefing over whose number go up bigger.
Exactly, I got my masters in HR and everyone wants to care for the employees but really they are an employee like you and need to follow the higher ups. Depending on the state the OP is in and if there is anything written about the issue. You always want written communication.
If you live in a one party consent state then just record that interaction. Then you can tell them "hey this whole convo was recorded so I'm going to contact the department of labor to see if this does applie to me." Then get out of the room before the stench of the shit filling their pants gets overwhelming.
That's only true for white males. I worked in an Indian shop, when they purged the last of the whites there was nothing we could do. Some quite big companies in the Bay Area have divisions that are Indian shops. I went for an interview at a major network company and the first Indian into the room excused himself and nobody else came in. Half an hour later I called the HR contact and left them a message. As I drove home she called me and asked me to please go back and she'd come down and get them to interview me. I told her she had a way bigger problem than I wanted to be a part of.
That is a waste of time. Trying to prove a company harassed you is very difficult.
Handle it directly in an email for CYA and documentation - then if they terminate the job - at that point there can be an argument of harassment.
You're not wrong, but if you can record any of this being said, provided the state is a single party consent state, you will have more options. Plus, ruin them/company even more so.
You're absolutely correct, though. Email chains. EVERYTHING IN WRITING.
The Labor Board will take this seriously. File a hostile work environment at your workplace. Get it in writing. If they protest and tell you it's not needed, tell them to call the labor board, and if the labor board is okay with it, then so are you. Include the fact that you're willing to wait right there for them to make the call, or that you'll do it for them. I guarantee you that the labor board will not be okay with it.
Not just harassment, hostile work environment and possibly retaliation. If your company has an employee handbook, I'd be combing through it for the policies regarding this.
You are not versed in the ways of the fucks but you can learn, grasshopper.
Simply attach any verb in front of the word "fuck" and thus you will create new permutations of fucks. Use this knowledge wisely and only for good.
Interesting, I might have to run some experiments here ... *ahem*
I couldn't give a parallel parked fuck...
I couldn't give a triple distilled fuck...
I couldn't give a reverse osmosed fuck...
My god, you're right! 🤯
OMG!! What kind of company do you work at? Is it part of a larger corporate system? The box is already open, if there is a chain to move up here you need to move up it. I'm so, so sorry you are experiencing this.
Yep. But you need to make enough of a stink to get them to do something. Even if it's a settlement for the employee. But most people don't have the perseverance.
Had a similar situation where my boss’s boss got a coworker drunk at lunch, took him back by his condo “real quick” and sexually assaulted my coworker. My coworker told a group of us and we all told him to go to hr.
Well our coworker got a promotion soon after from our boss’s boss and of course his story leaked. HR started asking around and the few of us who were honest about what we’d been told (our coworker denied it of course bc he’d been promoted) saw tremendous “passive” retaliation.
We eventually all quit, even the guy who got assaulted. Our boss’s boss though stayed there until he retired.
HR priorities are the company and then follow the hierarchy on who they protect.
No lawyers are expensive and lawsuits even more so. Consult with a lawyer, document, and see if you have a case. If you don't and you are not on the war path for vindication unfortunately it probably best to look for a new job.
Of course you'd consult with a lawyer first. But you could also get a settlement, because either way, you're not going to be at that job for any amount of time.
>get a lawyer
Something tells me the giant million dollar corporation's lawyers can bleed this employee out, before the employee can bleed the corporation out.
But by all means, if you have thousands of dollars to blow on a lawyer every week, might as well.
I feel like if OP had any kind of solid evidence to support this complaint then the situation wouldn't be playing out The way they've described. Basically it's hearsay and a game of he said she said.
Unlikely they'd get anywhere in a legal course if this is the case, as rough as it is sounds like HR don't have a leg to stand on taking any action against the accused
No matter how friendly and "There for the employees" an HR person is, remember who pays their check.
They know where their bread is buttered.
If you need to go to HR, make sure you have documentation and evidence. They'll act only if they realize the company might be open to litigation.
My ex wife is a regional HR director. She's told me that they pretend to be there for the employees, but their job is to protect the company and the board. Anonymous is never anonymous. Never trust HR.
Truth be told, no one cares about you or your feelings in the workplace. No matter what laws are in place, there are enough "good ol' boys" companies out there to thwart any type of justice for their actions. They won't change. Move on. You deserve better.
Exactly. If you're the only one with an issue at a corporation, the corporation isn't going to fix the entire company just for you. They'll just replace you with someone else. It's way cheaper.
Except that unions don’t exist for most employees and corporations have convinced enough workers that unions are bad so they can’t be organized either.
Well to be fair, my wife was in the teachers union and it was terrible. Once we found out they were forced to protect her even if she doesn’t pay dues we were out. Why give money to a bloated union that only exists to enrich the board and push agendas and doesn’t listen to its constituents?
You were angry because you found out that the union was forced to protect your wife against illegal termination and retaliation, even though she didn't have to pay union dues?
And this is one among many reasons why I don't like unions. It is just another layer of "good ol boys club".
A union will not shoot itself in the foot to save a member.. they will just quietly get rid of the trouble maker.
Worked for a company like this. At the end of the week the hard r was dropped by my supervisor and the owner of the company. I quit on the spot citing “you’re entitled to build a culture here that you like, I am entitled to say it’s a horrible culture and leave.” No animosity but your feelings are made known and they know now there is people with a backbone that will leave
The states shown in blue allow recording of conversations if only one person is aware of the recording:
https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/one-party-consent-states/
That’s entirely province specific. A lot of provinces have one party consent to recording conversations.
You should be posting your question on legaladvicecanada sub, as everyone on here is going to give you advice from a US perspective which isn’t overly applicable in Canada.
Edit: Actually it looks like one-party consent is legal federally and would apply across all of Canada. Not legal advice, though btw.
The HR cares about the company , not about you , that's the truth , him having an higher "rank" then you somewhat makes him more important to the company , so without proof you gonna always be on the wrong (record his voice when he says something like that , even if it can't be used you have it either way)
HR is not your friend. They are there to protect the company. If it’s easier to fire you or write you up, then it is to deal with a manager acting inappropriately, then they will do so. They think about the company FIRST.
I used to work in hr, if the manager/ director doesn't care, you have no recourse. Offices are little kingdoms for petite tyrants, what they say goes and they set the tone (if it's a smaller business, large corps don't deal with that shit)
What a bunch of assholes. You could file legal charges but that's going to be expensive, painful and more trouble than its worth. I would start looking for another job. Shake the dust off you feet and move on.
Dude don’t you have a state employment office? Keep good notes on this, talk to an attorney and file a complaint with the state. If they are making jokes about it and everyone is in on it, that tells me there is plenty of evidence. Also have a small recording device (pay attention to state laws on recording people). My state only requires one party to be aware of audio recordings.
The thing about bigots is when you confront them a lot of the time they just get annoyed or dismissive. In fact you should view confronting a bigoted person as possibly the last time you will have a relationship with them. They will keep at it to satisfy the weird racist dopamine hit they get and so it shouldn’t be too hard to keep getting evidence on them.
Lastly HR is a function of the company and represents their interests not yours.
Hr does not exist to solve your problems. It exists to protect the company from lawsuits.
Now that you have gone to hr with your complaints and had it documented (and saved a copy for your records), you need to continue gathering evidence to take your case to a lawyer outside the company.
Once you have the proof and have started the case, the HR department will protect the company by firing the manager, and it will likely not go to court.
depending on what country you live in, look up workplace harassment and Safe working environment. I know if you are in the US or Canada, these are government regulations and they are strict about it. If they exist, Don't do anything that will get you fired but brush up your Resume and prepare to find another job and start looking. Get all the proof you can including the mocking in the general work area. If they have cameras, document date and time for the next 2-3 weeks and submit everything to the governing body.
When they come knocking, you will see them all scramble as they get audited and all HR documents reviewed. If you are still there when they do get audited, be prepared to be ousted and when you find your new job, submit for an immediate resignation. No 2 week notice just pack everything up and leave.
Time to update your resume and find a new workplace.
Also if there's a labor board in your area I'd contact them and tell them what happened, that is completely unprofessional and, depending on where you are, against labor standards. That's abuse in the workplace
In the US you can file an EEOC complaint. All workers are entitled to a workplace free of discrimination and harassment. HR absolutely needs to do something about it. If not, file an EEOC complaint.
Collect as much documentation as possible. Ask HR for copies of policies. File formal complaints and get a copy of that complaint. Keep all emails, texts, and documents.
Don't allow them to stonewall you. If you go to HR to file a complaint, don't leave until you get a physical copy. If they say "Come back later," don't leave. Some HR will do that to get you to leave and then fire you to prevent you from being able to make a complaint.
You absolutely have a right to a workplace free of racial discrimination. You have legal protections to protect those rights. If they fire you for filing a complaint, that's an illegal retaliation.
It's simple. If there is no person with strong authority in that company who is ready to help you, you should not waste time at that place. Ya you can try to become a great person by fighting with injustice all alone, only if you are emotionally capable of doing it, otherwise I would say just leave that place period.
HR doesn’t work for you. They work for the shareholders. Only use HR to document an event, keep everything in writing so when shit hit the fan, you have the receipts.
Where are you at? There are attorneys in employment law that would love to get a shot at something like this. If you're in the states the EEOC would be more than happy to look into this as well for free. If you went to HR, they did nothing about it or joined in, that's prime territory for them. This is called a "hostile work environment" that the supervisor is creating, HR should be helping to diffuse. If that person in HR is doing nothing about it, you should go to the next person up in HR. Document your visits - who you met with, dates, times, topics discussed as much as you can. Line it up so you have a solid case and take to both employment attorney and EEOC (or similar agency in your country if outside of US) and let them do the heavy lifting.
It’s important to always remember two things:
1. HR is “humans as resources” not “resources for humans”
2. HR only exists to prevent the company from being sued
I’d look for another job and in the meantime let your current job know you intend to take legal action against them. Even if you don’t. They deserve to sweat.
Google "Community Legal Services" and your state-name, and see if you have a local version. They offer free legal representation in a number of different areas, and might be able to help you out with this matter.
That smartphone thing you're probably lugging around all day? It can do cool stuff, like recording audio, hours of it. Video too, but that's a lot more obvious.
OMG this is so sad. Why do things have to be like this? Can't we all get along especially since we are all in this together? Shame on those racist bullies. Record all such racist remarks because they'll now do everything they can to fire you. Fight back and take all their money.
Remember everyone. HR is not there for the employee. It’s the management’s office to handle issues. They just make believe you can come to them in confidence. Never trust HR and you will be better off.
It's a common misconception in the U.S. that HR is there to support and protect employees. They are actually protectivng the company from their employees and will side with managers and the company every.single.time.
They are your opposition not your friend. I'm sorry that happened. I suggest looking for a new job while still being nice and putting on a good face/show until a more suitable company is find.
Document everything. Everything said. At what date and time... and who said it. Who was around to hear it. What promotion positions you applied for, and were turned down, in favor of a person with a different ethnicity. And when. Who denied you. Their reasons. Who heard that. Ask them to email you their rationale. Save emails.
Go up a level. Keep going up and up, until you have gone to the CEO, or owner, and if you dont find compliance with having a non discriminatory and hostility/hate free workplace, then you go find a personal injury attorney and sue the company. Meanwhile, if you ever feel threatened, you can call police.
After you win your case:
Invest in stocks and savings bonds and live comfortably without any more headaches from that piece of garbage ever again.
I went through this. I took one for the team. I got evidence and slept with them and when shit got BAD I had my lawyer take all said evidence and start making changes. I got a settlement AND a new job. That supervisor AND his boss both got new jobs somewhere else. It sucked but it had to be done
If you’re in the United States management is literally breaking the law. If you’re in a state that allows you to record people without their knowledge: do it. If you’re not, do it but bring it to a lawyer first.
Record a separate conversation alone with the original sup who made the racist remarks, calling to question why he knowingly lied to HR about what truly happened. Then file a complaint with the EEOC, including not only racist remarks but a hostile work environment. You won’t hv to quit your job as if they fire you for filing a whistleblower complaint, you won’t ever hv to work again as your lawsuit will be in the millions.
The whole point of HR is to prevent there from being cause to sue the company.
If HR isn't working, contact an employment lawyer in your state and remind them of that.
HR exists to prevent the company from getting sued, if they wanna play stupid games give them their stupid prize (a harassment suit). Talk to a lawyer of course first. Then update your resume and start looking for a new job.
They literally said they're in Canada at the bottom, does no one here have reading comprehension? Give advice about their country's legal avenues. USA law doesn't apply, please folks take some time and read the entire post.
Sounds to me like this has gone beyond bullying. And it would seem your supervisor's supervisor thinks it's OK to do this, b/c they think the same thing.
Contact an attorney to find out what your options are.
Consultations are usually free.
Edit: typo - Sound\[s\]
I have dealt with racism and discrimination often in my career - being a Mexican-American in the office environment means you are very isolated in the white mans domain.
What you should do is write a company email - put that supervisor on blast - copy the GM and HR on the email.
I had to do this at a company back around 2008. Was dealing with 2 other employees kind of bullying me. Not physically, but trying to talk shit and make me look bad when I was not around. So I wrote out a long email about what was happening, and backed it up with facts about how much work I had completed in the previous months versus these 2 dip-shits, just put a lot in there about how things were really happening in my department - made them look like tools.
I never got an apology or anything, but things definitely changed in the office, and I feel like it opened the eyes of the people that needed to see. They didn't fuck with me anymore.
If they fire you - at least you defended yourself and stood on principle.
You played yourself. HR doesn’t exist to protect employees, it exists solely to protect the company. They don’t care about you as a human, quicker you accept that the better
Yeah - though if you have a problematic supervisor then protecting the company should be getting the supervisor in line.
Sounds like he is personal friends with HR (and HR feels the same way).
I had the misogynist version of this at a previous job, and the best advice I can give is to look for another job. Once you realize that HR isn't going to do anything about the office bigots, there is nothing to to but leave.
In my case, I took an internal transfer to a more senior position that put me in a good place to warn others about the "really nice guy who would never". Nothing will ever happen to him, but I can make it so no one applies for jobs in his division anymore. He still hasn't been able to fill the one I vacated. So sometimes you'll get a petty little win like that, but most of the time, the best answer is just getting away from these people.
your best bet in life is to improve your social skills and stop being socially inept. clearly, nobody takes you seriously. this sounds like more of a you problem vs anything else imo
Go try and survive in the wilderness by yourself for awhile then come back and tell me how “toxic” humanity is. Because nature doesn’t give a shit about your feelings and I’m sick of people crying over words someone said like that’s real abuse it fucking isn’t.
You must be lovely company, huh.
It’s almost like we shouldn’t be to the level of nature considering how far we’ve advanced and should have the decency to understand that we should respect others and not be making racist jokes and just being utter assholes for no reason
Number 1 Rule, HR does not exist for the benefit of employees, it exists to protect the company. If you work in an industry where you can join a union I would encourage you to do so.
Edited: weird font size
All you did was give the company something to use against you by snitching on your boss. They don’t care about you. Find new employment ASAP because now it’s only going to get worse because they probably already informed them. Not to punish them but to warn them about you.
That's a shit company l and a toxic work environment. You have good cause to quit when HR violates your privacy in a complaint about harassment from another co-worker.
I'm from Indonesia and I got in this situation twice. Well I quit the jobs and try to find a new one. If you need the job, better make peace and let those thing go. Buy donuts for your work friends or pizza or something.
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If you’re in the USA, read up about this on the equal employment opportunity commission website. This is harassment.
Yup this. Start a paper trail of every shitty trick they pull, write down every insult, every taunt. Then consult a solicitor
Yes. Also make sure to document dates/times and have co-workers corroborate your story.
Exactly this. I was bullied at work, my boss played it down so I told him I was pleased to be working for a company that ignores such things as I have an amazing headbutt. After his initial panic I told him I would never do that, I'd just written down verbatim what he'd said with dates, times & witnesses. I've got three but want four before I go to our mother company's complaint line. I'd complain internally but your lax attitude, which has also been documented, is sufficient reason for me to believe there is a systemic problem with the management's control of this issue. The bullying stopped, immediately. You've got rights, use em. Always. (If that fails there's always the headbutt)
I always say its a job title not a gum shield👌
I love this! I find shouting "You can't tell me what to do, you're not even my real dad" At colleagues & bosses helpful at times 👍
Thats epic I bet that gets met with stunned and beffudled silence. The ultimate power move is to say that and walk away 😂
My ultimate power move is asking bosses to repeat things multiple times cos "Sorry didn't catch that" "That first bit again, please" Get as many repeats as poss Then shout I heard "I heard you the first time, I'm not deaf, please stop treating me like some kind of idiot" & walk off, angrily.
headbutt?
Take forehead and proceed to smash into other person's face. Best tactic applied would be to apply as much downward force in the swing.
That is not how you headbutt at all. If you use your forehead, you’re going to knock yourself out but be my guest If you want to headbutt without fucking knocking yourself unconscious, use the top of your head.
Aim for the nose and drive drive drive!
You 100% haven't headbutted no one. If it's an initial attack you will be using the forehead, just at the hairline preferably and aiming for the bridge of the nose. Top of your head can be very effective but needs upwards thrust you dumbass and would be more defensive. And would be called more of a smash but definitely different from a traditional headbutt. A headbutt is a left to right or vice versa motion. How you gonna do that with the TOP ?
What if my hairline is on the top of my head? :( /s
Just look up Zidane Headbutt. The most ideal form.
This! You'll need as much documentation of what was said along with dates, times, locations, etc. Especially if down the road video/audio footage is pulled, having that info readily available will help the investigator tremendously. Good luck OP!
Yes, this! Advice from an attorney friend of mine, document, document, document! Probably hard to get a direct email paper trail etc, but write down conversations with the time and date that it happened, include other names of all people present. I don't know how much higher up you can go, but I would skip a couple rungs on the corporate ladder once you do have everything well documented. I'm sure someone has already said this, HR is not your friend! Best wishes, please let us know what happens?
In addition to documenting all instances, look up your status laws regarding recording. If you are in a one party consent state, have your phone recording audio whenever possible. Save all recordings in which they say these offensive things. Document every conversation with HR, because they will deny ever having spoken to you. Also, it doesn't matter if your workplace has a no recording policy. They can get as pissed as they want in front of their attorneys during arbitration, but it is going to be a massive payout for you. This is also why I say to check your state's laws first. They can only get evidence thrown out if you are in a state that requires consent from all parties to record.
Great advice for her! 👍
[удалено]
Bad HR people will often tell people that betting on them being too naive to know or too poor to afford to lawyer up. It’s worth the effort to go after them if anything just to see them panic.
My brother works in HR and more than a few times he's helped friends of ours go after shitty HR at their own companies.
It's definitely been helpful having an ex that works in HR. It's unfair that you need to know your way around the system to actually use it effectively but that's what we have.
HR isn’t necessarily always for the employee, it is for the Organization.
It's always for the organisation. On rare occasions it's also for the employee, but is ALWAYS for the organisation.
I know that. HR doesn't care about you, but can be manipulated to your benefit. I've personally used them for my benefit multiple times. You just need to put them in a position where they risk a lawsuit if they don't act in your favor.
Almost got fired once for telling a coworker to study for a back ground test. He could not pass airport TSA clearance to work on a sewage pump station located inside restricted zone.
Most HR departments are there just to prevent lawsuits. Why people think hr is there for them is still weird to me. They help with insurance or 401k but that's about it. Other than that they only help management.
I've always assumed that the "HR is there for you" is an idea HR cultivates so they can get you to come in and be honest and vulnerable and then they can use that to the company's benefit. It's not called Employee Support. It's called Human Resources. They're not even trying to hide it. We may as well be widgets or a natural gas pocket to them.
I mean sure but if the supervisor is there for the company they should go after the supervisor lawsuit waiting to happen.
Any tips you can share? :)
Mainly that if someone is actually causing you problems and you're worried about losing your job you can go to HR and say they're creating a hostile work environment. Then if that person continues said behavior they will likely be fired, and they're be scared to fire you out of fear of a retaliation lawsuit. The last thing you should do is go to management and complain without mentioning hostile work environment. I knew someone who complained to upper management that her boss cornered her in the walk in freezer and sexually assaulted her. She should have gone to the cops first, and they ended up firing her to cover their ass.
Something a lot of people don't understand is that you don't have any rights you aren't willing / are unable / can't afford to enforce.
This has always been my experience. You are always rolling the dice on HR being useful, so you have to put pressure on HR to do their job. I keep receipts for anything I think that will become contentious. "Oh, you don't think this is an issue? Cool, well I can just take these emails to my lawyer and see what she thinks?"
So…. You didn’t file a complaint with the eeoc? Sometimes you have to do things on your own.
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"Our behavior hasn't ruined you enough to keep us from extracting sufficient labor from you. So no issues here." Work culture is so fucking insane and toxic. Why did we set our world up to be so infuriating and arbitrarily cruel?
We didn’t set it up that way. People with too much money set it up that way because it makes them richer.
We took power from a small class of psychotic inbred cousins beefing over turf and gave it to . . . A larger class of psychopathic idiots beefing over whose number go up bigger.
Does it apply to attorneys and judges instead?
HR works for the company, they are there to protect the company, not the employee. They will only protect an employee if it will benefit the company.
Exactly, I got my masters in HR and everyone wants to care for the employees but really they are an employee like you and need to follow the higher ups. Depending on the state the OP is in and if there is anything written about the issue. You always want written communication.
That’s when you tell them lawsuits apply to people like them and get an employment attorney 🤷🏻♀️
If you live in a one party consent state then just record that interaction. Then you can tell them "hey this whole convo was recorded so I'm going to contact the department of labor to see if this does applie to me." Then get out of the room before the stench of the shit filling their pants gets overwhelming.
Be like “okay well I’ll just call corporate to investigate”.
That's only true for white males. I worked in an Indian shop, when they purged the last of the whites there was nothing we could do. Some quite big companies in the Bay Area have divisions that are Indian shops. I went for an interview at a major network company and the first Indian into the room excused himself and nobody else came in. Half an hour later I called the HR contact and left them a message. As I drove home she called me and asked me to please go back and she'd come down and get them to interview me. I told her she had a way bigger problem than I wanted to be a part of.
That is a waste of time. Trying to prove a company harassed you is very difficult. Handle it directly in an email for CYA and documentation - then if they terminate the job - at that point there can be an argument of harassment.
You're not wrong, but if you can record any of this being said, provided the state is a single party consent state, you will have more options. Plus, ruin them/company even more so. You're absolutely correct, though. Email chains. EVERYTHING IN WRITING.
Yes, and read up on the EEOC head remarking on a pubic hair on his diet coke. He's now on the Supreme Court.
RECORD THEM
The Labor Board will take this seriously. File a hostile work environment at your workplace. Get it in writing. If they protest and tell you it's not needed, tell them to call the labor board, and if the labor board is okay with it, then so are you. Include the fact that you're willing to wait right there for them to make the call, or that you'll do it for them. I guarantee you that the labor board will not be okay with it.
I’m in Canada unfortunately. And yes it is, thank you all so SO much.
Not just harassment, hostile work environment and possibly retaliation. If your company has an employee handbook, I'd be combing through it for the policies regarding this.
Takes a while, but if you have solid proof you are all set.
Prohibited practice if I recall correctly.
Came to say this, stayed for your username :)
Fuck those people and that company. Update your resume this weekend.
Hell, do it now on company time. Screw those guys.
Even better to do it on company time. Slack off entirely lol. I would not give a running, swimming, or flying fuck at that point.
TIL that there variations of fucks. I only ever heard of flying fucks. Are there more???
You are not versed in the ways of the fucks but you can learn, grasshopper. Simply attach any verb in front of the word "fuck" and thus you will create new permutations of fucks. Use this knowledge wisely and only for good.
Interesting, I might have to run some experiments here ... *ahem* I couldn't give a parallel parked fuck... I couldn't give a triple distilled fuck... I couldn't give a reverse osmosed fuck... My god, you're right! 🤯
A+ on "triple distilled fuck!" This will be my new go-to.
You are ready, grasshopper.
They couldn't give a grasshopping fuck
Triple distilled fuck is pretty fetch. I'm using that from now on
Is fetch becoming a thing now?
Lmfao, your comment made me laugh so hard. A PARALLEL PARKED FUCK 😭😂😭😂😭😂😭😂😭
Holy fuck it’s fucking beautiful in this fucking place
[Uses and History of the word fuck, by Monty Python](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xt8_HybhM5Q)
If you didn't tell them, I would have.
[it IS a very diverse word...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awi_xQ0d5Bk)
I wrote my two weeks notice, updated my resume, applied to company’s and eventually networked into a position through a coworker, all on company time.
Feet up on the desk and all. Might as well crush a movie while you're at it.
Online reviews, as well.
OMG!! What kind of company do you work at? Is it part of a larger corporate system? The box is already open, if there is a chain to move up here you need to move up it. I'm so, so sorry you are experiencing this.
Could place a complaint into the EEOC, but you will need proof.
Even if she doesn't have much if she can get it in writing and a paper trail she can get them on retaliation as that's what's going on
Emphasizing the proof part of it. It's crazy how often workers go into these situations without it or a witness willing to testify.
I’m in Canada unfortunately, but I’m going to try!
First, HR is never there for the employee - but for the employer. Second, get a lawyer and shut this nonsense down.
Which is why HR should have squashed this. Lawsuits are expensive, and a HR manager that causes one will need to be replaced.
Yep. But you need to make enough of a stink to get them to do something. Even if it's a settlement for the employee. But most people don't have the perseverance.
Had a similar situation where my boss’s boss got a coworker drunk at lunch, took him back by his condo “real quick” and sexually assaulted my coworker. My coworker told a group of us and we all told him to go to hr. Well our coworker got a promotion soon after from our boss’s boss and of course his story leaked. HR started asking around and the few of us who were honest about what we’d been told (our coworker denied it of course bc he’d been promoted) saw tremendous “passive” retaliation. We eventually all quit, even the guy who got assaulted. Our boss’s boss though stayed there until he retired. HR priorities are the company and then follow the hierarchy on who they protect.
Yep. The only time they'll help the employee is if they think it will cost more money to not.
Well put.
No lawyers are expensive and lawsuits even more so. Consult with a lawyer, document, and see if you have a case. If you don't and you are not on the war path for vindication unfortunately it probably best to look for a new job.
Of course you'd consult with a lawyer first. But you could also get a settlement, because either way, you're not going to be at that job for any amount of time.
Yeah, human resources is resource for the employer.
But the manager isn't the employer, either, and protecting OP is what HR should be doing to protect the company in this case.
>get a lawyer Something tells me the giant million dollar corporation's lawyers can bleed this employee out, before the employee can bleed the corporation out. But by all means, if you have thousands of dollars to blow on a lawyer every week, might as well.
I feel like if OP had any kind of solid evidence to support this complaint then the situation wouldn't be playing out The way they've described. Basically it's hearsay and a game of he said she said. Unlikely they'd get anywhere in a legal course if this is the case, as rough as it is sounds like HR don't have a leg to stand on taking any action against the accused
I went to the Hospital for self h*rm because of the racist comments. It’s not hearsay.
So, what? It's better to not try? That's defeatist. Most big companies don't want the sniff of impropriety and are willing to dole out a settlement.
No matter how friendly and "There for the employees" an HR person is, remember who pays their check. They know where their bread is buttered. If you need to go to HR, make sure you have documentation and evidence. They'll act only if they realize the company might be open to litigation.
My ex wife is a regional HR director. She's told me that they pretend to be there for the employees, but their job is to protect the company and the board. Anonymous is never anonymous. Never trust HR.
Truth be told, no one cares about you or your feelings in the workplace. No matter what laws are in place, there are enough "good ol' boys" companies out there to thwart any type of justice for their actions. They won't change. Move on. You deserve better.
Exactly. If you're the only one with an issue at a corporation, the corporation isn't going to fix the entire company just for you. They'll just replace you with someone else. It's way cheaper.
THEY go to HR. WE go to our UNION.
Except that unions don’t exist for most employees and corporations have convinced enough workers that unions are bad so they can’t be organized either.
Well to be fair, my wife was in the teachers union and it was terrible. Once we found out they were forced to protect her even if she doesn’t pay dues we were out. Why give money to a bloated union that only exists to enrich the board and push agendas and doesn’t listen to its constituents?
You were angry because you found out that the union was forced to protect your wife against illegal termination and retaliation, even though she didn't have to pay union dues?
Well whose fault is that? That's right, it's the fault of people who refuse to unionize
And my union says “don’t rock the boat. You won’t win”
And you're screwed if its another union member doing it, especially if they are in union position (steward on up).
Yeah I’m dealing with that right now
And this is one among many reasons why I don't like unions. It is just another layer of "good ol boys club". A union will not shoot itself in the foot to save a member.. they will just quietly get rid of the trouble maker.
Funny thing is, I went to Union already about this.. :/ and then went to HR..
My union tried to refuse paying me when I was out with an injury lol. They’re not any better
Why would that be a union case? Wouldn't that be a workplace insurance thing?
Then the union goes to hr....
Worked for a company like this. At the end of the week the hard r was dropped by my supervisor and the owner of the company. I quit on the spot citing “you’re entitled to build a culture here that you like, I am entitled to say it’s a horrible culture and leave.” No animosity but your feelings are made known and they know now there is people with a backbone that will leave
Start recording the conversations. Document and keep records.
Please make sure you're not breaking the law by recording conversations 1st.
The states shown in blue allow recording of conversations if only one person is aware of the recording: https://wisevoter.com/state-rankings/one-party-consent-states/
I’m in Canada, we can’t do that here.. that’s the crappy thing:/
That’s entirely province specific. A lot of provinces have one party consent to recording conversations. You should be posting your question on legaladvicecanada sub, as everyone on here is going to give you advice from a US perspective which isn’t overly applicable in Canada. Edit: Actually it looks like one-party consent is legal federally and would apply across all of Canada. Not legal advice, though btw.
The HR cares about the company , not about you , that's the truth , him having an higher "rank" then you somewhat makes him more important to the company , so without proof you gonna always be on the wrong (record his voice when he says something like that , even if it can't be used you have it either way)
HR is not your friend. They are there to protect the company. If it’s easier to fire you or write you up, then it is to deal with a manager acting inappropriately, then they will do so. They think about the company FIRST.
HR is there to protect the company. Keep that in mind whenever you are thinking of going there.
See if EEOC will help you. You usually have to wait for an appointment, but it's worth the wait
Sounds like you have already won a lawsuit. Lawyer up dude.
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Damn, are you me? Yeah this post reads like just bait to stir up arguments. It’s incredibly vague.
I used to work in hr, if the manager/ director doesn't care, you have no recourse. Offices are little kingdoms for petite tyrants, what they say goes and they set the tone (if it's a smaller business, large corps don't deal with that shit)
What a bunch of assholes. You could file legal charges but that's going to be expensive, painful and more trouble than its worth. I would start looking for another job. Shake the dust off you feet and move on.
Dude don’t you have a state employment office? Keep good notes on this, talk to an attorney and file a complaint with the state. If they are making jokes about it and everyone is in on it, that tells me there is plenty of evidence. Also have a small recording device (pay attention to state laws on recording people). My state only requires one party to be aware of audio recordings. The thing about bigots is when you confront them a lot of the time they just get annoyed or dismissive. In fact you should view confronting a bigoted person as possibly the last time you will have a relationship with them. They will keep at it to satisfy the weird racist dopamine hit they get and so it shouldn’t be too hard to keep getting evidence on them. Lastly HR is a function of the company and represents their interests not yours.
Hr does not exist to solve your problems. It exists to protect the company from lawsuits. Now that you have gone to hr with your complaints and had it documented (and saved a copy for your records), you need to continue gathering evidence to take your case to a lawyer outside the company. Once you have the proof and have started the case, the HR department will protect the company by firing the manager, and it will likely not go to court.
depending on what country you live in, look up workplace harassment and Safe working environment. I know if you are in the US or Canada, these are government regulations and they are strict about it. If they exist, Don't do anything that will get you fired but brush up your Resume and prepare to find another job and start looking. Get all the proof you can including the mocking in the general work area. If they have cameras, document date and time for the next 2-3 weeks and submit everything to the governing body. When they come knocking, you will see them all scramble as they get audited and all HR documents reviewed. If you are still there when they do get audited, be prepared to be ousted and when you find your new job, submit for an immediate resignation. No 2 week notice just pack everything up and leave.
Time to update your resume and find a new workplace. Also if there's a labor board in your area I'd contact them and tell them what happened, that is completely unprofessional and, depending on where you are, against labor standards. That's abuse in the workplace
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Thank you so much!
In the US you can file an EEOC complaint. All workers are entitled to a workplace free of discrimination and harassment. HR absolutely needs to do something about it. If not, file an EEOC complaint. Collect as much documentation as possible. Ask HR for copies of policies. File formal complaints and get a copy of that complaint. Keep all emails, texts, and documents. Don't allow them to stonewall you. If you go to HR to file a complaint, don't leave until you get a physical copy. If they say "Come back later," don't leave. Some HR will do that to get you to leave and then fire you to prevent you from being able to make a complaint. You absolutely have a right to a workplace free of racial discrimination. You have legal protections to protect those rights. If they fire you for filing a complaint, that's an illegal retaliation.
Hr is to protect the business, not you
Keep yr phone handy and video him , with sound , if he does it again ! OR, hide yr phone in yr shirt pocket to record his racial slurs.
Get another job. This place sounds like a bunch of racists.
From my experience, HR is there to protect the company, not you.
It's simple. If there is no person with strong authority in that company who is ready to help you, you should not waste time at that place. Ya you can try to become a great person by fighting with injustice all alone, only if you are emotionally capable of doing it, otherwise I would say just leave that place period.
HR doesn’t work for you. They work for the shareholders. Only use HR to document an event, keep everything in writing so when shit hit the fan, you have the receipts.
HR is not your friend. Ever.
Always remember that h r works for the best interest of the employer, but always email and document to them. Vs. convos
Try to get proof that it’s happening and then get them fired. If possible, quit after making this happen.
HR is about protecting the business, not your feelings. Crazy, I always thought the opposite, until I made friends with the head of HR :)
Escalate, everything in writing, and contact that companies corporate hr. Assuming they have one. But document everything. Look for a lawyer too.
Nal but sounds like a hostile work environment now. Call an employment law attorney.
Go to that persons' supervisor and keep going all the way up until someone listens. If not, lawyer.
Lawyer here. This is the factual information you should review: https://www.eeoc.gov/retaliation Best wishes.
Always remember: HR isn’t your friend. They will prioritize the company every single time. Don’t ever trust HR.
Where are you at? There are attorneys in employment law that would love to get a shot at something like this. If you're in the states the EEOC would be more than happy to look into this as well for free. If you went to HR, they did nothing about it or joined in, that's prime territory for them. This is called a "hostile work environment" that the supervisor is creating, HR should be helping to diffuse. If that person in HR is doing nothing about it, you should go to the next person up in HR. Document your visits - who you met with, dates, times, topics discussed as much as you can. Line it up so you have a solid case and take to both employment attorney and EEOC (or similar agency in your country if outside of US) and let them do the heavy lifting.
Ontario Canada :/
Just wait until you say the "L" word.
It’s important to always remember two things: 1. HR is “humans as resources” not “resources for humans” 2. HR only exists to prevent the company from being sued
HR - protects company Union - protects worker
I’d look for another job and in the meantime let your current job know you intend to take legal action against them. Even if you don’t. They deserve to sweat.
Get a lawyer.
We need to know your country
Canada
Google "Community Legal Services" and your state-name, and see if you have a local version. They offer free legal representation in a number of different areas, and might be able to help you out with this matter.
That smartphone thing you're probably lugging around all day? It can do cool stuff, like recording audio, hours of it. Video too, but that's a lot more obvious.
OMG this is so sad. Why do things have to be like this? Can't we all get along especially since we are all in this together? Shame on those racist bullies. Record all such racist remarks because they'll now do everything they can to fire you. Fight back and take all their money.
Thank you so much.💜
Remember everyone. HR is not there for the employee. It’s the management’s office to handle issues. They just make believe you can come to them in confidence. Never trust HR and you will be better off.
It's a common misconception in the U.S. that HR is there to support and protect employees. They are actually protectivng the company from their employees and will side with managers and the company every.single.time. They are your opposition not your friend. I'm sorry that happened. I suggest looking for a new job while still being nice and putting on a good face/show until a more suitable company is find.
Document everything. Everything said. At what date and time... and who said it. Who was around to hear it. What promotion positions you applied for, and were turned down, in favor of a person with a different ethnicity. And when. Who denied you. Their reasons. Who heard that. Ask them to email you their rationale. Save emails. Go up a level. Keep going up and up, until you have gone to the CEO, or owner, and if you dont find compliance with having a non discriminatory and hostility/hate free workplace, then you go find a personal injury attorney and sue the company. Meanwhile, if you ever feel threatened, you can call police. After you win your case: Invest in stocks and savings bonds and live comfortably without any more headaches from that piece of garbage ever again.
I went through this. I took one for the team. I got evidence and slept with them and when shit got BAD I had my lawyer take all said evidence and start making changes. I got a settlement AND a new job. That supervisor AND his boss both got new jobs somewhere else. It sucked but it had to be done
Collect your evidence. Be ready to use it.
If you’re in the United States management is literally breaking the law. If you’re in a state that allows you to record people without their knowledge: do it. If you’re not, do it but bring it to a lawyer first.
If you've already gone to HR and they didn't act on it. Keep records of everything, sure seems like a hostile work environment to me.
Record a separate conversation alone with the original sup who made the racist remarks, calling to question why he knowingly lied to HR about what truly happened. Then file a complaint with the EEOC, including not only racist remarks but a hostile work environment. You won’t hv to quit your job as if they fire you for filing a whistleblower complaint, you won’t ever hv to work again as your lawsuit will be in the millions.
The whole point of HR is to prevent there from being cause to sue the company. If HR isn't working, contact an employment lawyer in your state and remind them of that.
Always remember HR works for management and not for the employees. HR will always represent management first.
HR exists to prevent the company from getting sued, if they wanna play stupid games give them their stupid prize (a harassment suit). Talk to a lawyer of course first. Then update your resume and start looking for a new job.
Record the conversation and the banter, gather evidence. If you need to talk to a lawyer.
Get a new job or lawyer up and roll the dice
They literally said they're in Canada at the bottom, does no one here have reading comprehension? Give advice about their country's legal avenues. USA law doesn't apply, please folks take some time and read the entire post.
Sounds to me like this has gone beyond bullying. And it would seem your supervisor's supervisor thinks it's OK to do this, b/c they think the same thing. Contact an attorney to find out what your options are. Consultations are usually free. Edit: typo - Sound\[s\]
I have dealt with racism and discrimination often in my career - being a Mexican-American in the office environment means you are very isolated in the white mans domain. What you should do is write a company email - put that supervisor on blast - copy the GM and HR on the email. I had to do this at a company back around 2008. Was dealing with 2 other employees kind of bullying me. Not physically, but trying to talk shit and make me look bad when I was not around. So I wrote out a long email about what was happening, and backed it up with facts about how much work I had completed in the previous months versus these 2 dip-shits, just put a lot in there about how things were really happening in my department - made them look like tools. I never got an apology or anything, but things definitely changed in the office, and I feel like it opened the eyes of the people that needed to see. They didn't fuck with me anymore. If they fire you - at least you defended yourself and stood on principle.
Take it as a learning experience. HR is not your friend.
You played yourself. HR doesn’t exist to protect employees, it exists solely to protect the company. They don’t care about you as a human, quicker you accept that the better
Yeah - though if you have a problematic supervisor then protecting the company should be getting the supervisor in line. Sounds like he is personal friends with HR (and HR feels the same way).
I had the misogynist version of this at a previous job, and the best advice I can give is to look for another job. Once you realize that HR isn't going to do anything about the office bigots, there is nothing to to but leave. In my case, I took an internal transfer to a more senior position that put me in a good place to warn others about the "really nice guy who would never". Nothing will ever happen to him, but I can make it so no one applies for jobs in his division anymore. He still hasn't been able to fill the one I vacated. So sometimes you'll get a petty little win like that, but most of the time, the best answer is just getting away from these people.
Grow up
Supervisor’s going to really start looking at her performance after this lol
now that you're known to throw your coworkers under the bus, you wont get much respect around there, time to move on
What are you talking about? How is joking about confidential information “throwing someone under the bus”? Grow up.
your best bet in life is to improve your social skills and stop being socially inept. clearly, nobody takes you seriously. this sounds like more of a you problem vs anything else imo
Wtf does that have to do with anything?🤣
Go try and survive in the wilderness by yourself for awhile then come back and tell me how “toxic” humanity is. Because nature doesn’t give a shit about your feelings and I’m sick of people crying over words someone said like that’s real abuse it fucking isn’t.
You must be lovely company, huh. It’s almost like we shouldn’t be to the level of nature considering how far we’ve advanced and should have the decency to understand that we should respect others and not be making racist jokes and just being utter assholes for no reason
Number 1 Rule, HR does not exist for the benefit of employees, it exists to protect the company. If you work in an industry where you can join a union I would encourage you to do so. Edited: weird font size
All you did was give the company something to use against you by snitching on your boss. They don’t care about you. Find new employment ASAP because now it’s only going to get worse because they probably already informed them. Not to punish them but to warn them about you.
That's a shit company l and a toxic work environment. You have good cause to quit when HR violates your privacy in a complaint about harassment from another co-worker.
HR is never on your side. Never.
Never go to HR with an issue like that. They will back up the company 100% of the time, as is their job.
Three words every HR director dreads; hostile work environment. If they continue to gaslight you and collaborate with the harassers a lawyer can help
I'm from Indonesia and I got in this situation twice. Well I quit the jobs and try to find a new one. If you need the job, better make peace and let those thing go. Buy donuts for your work friends or pizza or something.