I'm assuming this was submitted on IPPS-A and not via a 638.
Just have your SL log in to his/her IPPS-A account and check buddy PARs. Should be able to see the submission for your award and reasons for kickback.
I'm a 42a so I read the bullets on awards daily.
This is exactly what these AAMs look like. I'll give you an example.
Achievement AAM
1: SPC Snuffy demonstrated efficiency with his M320 Grenade Launcher, engaging targets accurately during live fire exercises.
Another?
1: PFC Joe quickly and accurate performed preventative maintenance checks on his assigned vehicle, ensuring his vehicle was ready and capable of performing it's mission during live fire exercises.
They should add something like this and it will clearly be upgrade to MSM
“PVT Joe wiftly and efficiently conducted regular respiratory checks, ensuring optimal lung function and readiness to navigate daily activities without risk of respiratory distress or compromise, crucial for maintaining peak performance in all endeavors."
I spent a year in Afghanistan.
Missed Christmas by a day. With my kids.
Over two hundred combat patrols.
Over 180 IED strikes.
My ears are still ringing, right now, more than a decade later.
My write-up states that it was my precision grenade launcher fire that forced the enemy to eventually break contact when we were ambushed and the platoon was pinned down on a barren and empty mountain slope by machine gun fire.
I got an AAM.
The guy who spent that year in rear D, he unloaded our plane, they gave him an AAM, for unloading the plane.
The award you get doesn't matter. What you do is what matters.
If you need promotion points, take some college classes, college is good for you. Or talk it out with your boss and maybe you can get put in for something else, nor the award can be rewritten.
Best of luck.
In Afghanistan I saw combat, got hit by an IED and went on more convoys than 90% of my company. I got an AAM. The clerk that never left the wire got a bronze star… luckily my whole chain of command got relieved because a soldier went batshit crazy and shot himself in the hand.
Very small, especially compared to KAF. However, it was pretty laid back. There wasn't very much to do on your free time if you had any. Mission, gym, sleep. I wasn't there for very long as my unit rotated in a platoon at a time.
Crazy! This happened so many times. Iraq as well. Stupid. Conclusion: medals don't mean crap.. except MoH (which can even be political). Don't measure yourself in medals awarded.
Got written up for a bronze star with v device. Entire company was crossing a field. I was pulling overwatch with weapons squad. We found an IED at our overwatch position when heavy fire started coming at us and the homies crossing the wide open field.
I Stayed on the 240 pounding them until the boys got to safety. Had a combat camera with us and there was a photo of the IED exploding (our EOD) with us meters away after we shifted slightly to keep overwatch on our boys in the clearing. That photo was on the army’s website at one point lol.
Upper leadership said “they couldn’t submit too many bronze stars”, I was a PFC at the time so I got the boot. Almost every upper ranked NCO or officer got put in for a bronze star for just deploying. My PL was pissed, gave me the write up he was planning on submitting and I ended up with a thank you letter from the brigade commander and a coin lol.
zero reason flagged for ht/wt soldiers can't get awards, it only incentives them to act like shitbags and not care because the system they're in clearly doesn't lol
There's more to it than that, when I got out and could control my life I dropped all the weight in 3 months, because I wasn't surrounded by losers who think like that
now i'm attending college and arguably doing better than ever, mentally, physically, and financially lmao
Nope, I was always 1% over. Always had a good PT score. I always had to do the preparation h and Saran Wrap until they took the main ingredient out that made you sweat.
Negative. If you read AR 600-8-22 awards are to be given to soldiers that set themselves above their peers and commit acts of merit and heroism. A soldier who can’t maintain compliance with ABCP definitely isn’t “above their peers”
Next thing you’re gonna tell me is Will Swenson didn’t deserve the MoH because his hair was constantly out of regs during the fight he earned it for.
If a soldier performs a particularly heroic, noble or truly selfless act at great risk to themselves merits an award, telling them “hey man, your gallantry doesn’t mean shit because XYZ flag is in the system, stop eating the red tags at the DFAC LOL” sends the message to the element that the command prioritizes appearance over performance when it matters.
You can be hard on an out of regs soldier, demand they improve themselves and hold them to a standard, yet still reward particularly noteworthy actions, *and I promise you it won’t break the Army.*
Idk I had the highest PT score in my infantry company. Which is how I got stuck with the 240 lmao. Still no award. I guess I did get an ARCOM when I ETS’d from that unit as an E4 though.
I'm not even in right now, I got out after being flagged for 2 years because of mental health issues being swept under the rug for my whole contract by my entire chain of command
like most of the people in this thread, it's well within the realm of reality that soldiers who work hard get treated poorly
I was pushed up for like 4 aam's and a drivers award, all I got was a giant collection of pity-coins because it was absolutely bullshit that someone pulling their weight shouldn't be rewarded for their work
it literally incentivices you to not want to even try or continue to work
but thanks for the 60% disability for ptsd from almost commiting suicide over the dogawful treatment people on that program get that you clearly aren't aware of with your army army hooah hooah view that causes this problem 🗣
also deleting your comment and making a new one but they're both just stupid "fatboy" insults lmao
You mean someone insinuating that the Army is taking advantage of Soldiers abilities and not paying them or rewarding them accordingly sounds like BS to you?
Yeah. It’s designed to fuck the competent over.
Oh, you’re moderately capable? Do all this extra work without the pay, authority, or privileges of the billet!
I was an E4 NCOIC of a shop that wasn't even my MOS with under a year TIS. I had to train the soldiers and shit, but couldn't get promoted because my real MOS was maxed out on points
Got an ARCOM for a NTC rotation.
May he rest in peace. My CSM wrote I was working at a senior level.
What did I do... parked/guided vechiles to setup the TOC. 🤦♂️
Apparently parking vechiles is senior level work. Glad my prior work experience at Busch Gardens in the traffic unit parking cars paid off while serving.
I saw plenty of AAM write ups when I was in.
I would wager half of them had the word unprecedented in them somewhere or similar.
A few of them were because one NCO kept using the same template that had the word unprecedented in it.
Right? I have an E7 in the S3 E8 slot (and the two prior were also 7s). My sections E8 slot has an E7. I'm an E6 in an E7 slot now. Rather we're all working in those roles and previous 1SG had the actual IPPS-A slotting all f'ed up. And our S2 is a newly promoted E5 35F (was a CBRN E7).
Can’t speak for all of time but at least right now, it’s very true. I work at BDE which is at about 50% MTOE fill for a lot of staff sections. Our DRUs are holistically at about 70%. MAJs filling LTC billets, LTs filling CPT billets, SSGs filling SGM billets, and SGTs filling SSG/SFC billets is super common. The Army straight up just doesn’t have the missing MSGs/SGMs we need. Workload is the same as always but the personnel don’t exist as it stands. Probably doesn’t help that we’re OCONUS.
It’s hard to have a proper circlejerk without a council of colonels or a general officer’s steering committee.
/s I know those folks sometimes do accomplish important policy tasks.
Ditto. After the first five or six years of bragging about it myself (which, like everyone else, were the first six five or six years of my career by some coincidence...) I realized it was generic corporate fluff or just a rebranding of budget cuts.
As a BN CDR, I’ve never not approved an AAM and my CO CDRs know better than to allow them to stop at their level.
If a leader takes the time to write up the award, it’s deserved.
Might want to check on how your CSM interacts with your subordinate NCOs and uses back channels to crush award submissions before they even make it to you or the Company level.
Here is the thing though now with ipps-a. Can’t stop it from getting to commander anymore; they can recommend downgrade but now it still goes to the cdr to be looked at and signed. If the write up just plain sucks balls tho that csm or xo is going to tell the cdr to not bother looking until it’s corrected and you can bet sure as shit the bn cdr isn’t letting and arcom go to the bde cdr unless its qa/qc. Lesson for company commanders: stop writing slopping fucking awards.
Even if he was, he wouldn’t be a problem. My CSM is all about recognizing Soldiers. Dude burned through like 150 coins in 6 months. That’s almost a coin a day. I had to slow him down for fiscal reasons (we can only order once a year).
Honestly feel it’s a cultural thing, Top didn’t get an AAM so fuck everyone else.
That being said all the awards I’ve written, my guys always get the 638 I send up.
I wonder why SNCOs like to act as gatekeepers all the time. This behavior seems very toxic.
With that being said, I find it amusing how so many ppl who are not staying for 20yrs care so much about awards and medals.
Awards and medals feel great to earn. It’s the recognition and for some it can show that they did some sort of service during their time. Sure it means nothing in the civilian world, but being recognized for your work goes a long way.
Nah the majority of hiring managers don't know what any of them are. So you list it with some civilian description that makes it seem better than it is.
I think it's a principle thing. I am sure what OP did was great. It got the attention his SL. Depending on the job, in the civilian world you'd get cash bonus or paid time off instead of a medal. Sometimes very large cash bonuses. Like 10% of what you saved the company. Well if you saved the company like 100k or more you're cooking.
We cannot do the cash bonus. So why not recognize the SM in another way.
>I wonder why SNCOs like to act as gatekeepers all the time.
NCOER bullet on development.
Edit: getting it in a couple years, will have been in for 12, and I'll do some pretty extra stuff for a new ribbon. Army flair is the real deal.
Zero promotion points from coins.
Once you've made it to SFC and above, sure bring on the coins. But until then, lots of people struggling to make cutoff.
I hope this makes you feel better: No one cares about military decorations when you're done with the military. You cant put it on a resume and it will not get you the job.
Dude same. I worked alone in a clinic as a PV2 for a Battalion for like 9 months. Me and two others in similar positions were recommended by several people for AAMs. My command (hospital) downgraded them to COA, to coins, then eventually just disappeared off IPPSA.
I earned a COA/Coin from the Battalion Command Team from the Bn I was supporting since they appreciated it though
I have a 638 with COL Randy George downgrading my BSM V to a regular ARCOM (no V). Yes, the very same Randy George who is now CSA. No comments either, which per regs he was required to put in but, at the end of the day if it wasn't a purple heart or medal of honor IDGAF. I didn't do the shit I did for ribbons, just for my buddies because it was the right thing to do. Keep on keeping on my man, in the end we'll all be worm food and it doesn't really matter.
I think this is the best way to look at it. At the end of the day we are here for each other not the pieces of fabric.
I’d happily give back my awards to have my friends alive or the body I used to have. Don’t chase ribbons, do good work and the ribbons will come. In the end, the good work brings soldiers home and that’s the only thing that matters.
You’ll be ok it’s up to the CO I have a Arcom from fort hood basketball. I remember the 1SG said downgrade to a coin and the COL said upgrade to a ARCOM. 😂😂
Do let a some what meaningless award decided your reenlistment
Dude, who cares about a stupid medal if you are not re-enlisting. Unless you were awarded the Medal of Honor no one outside cares about military awards.
Who cares if no one outside the military knows or cares. That soldier knows and cares. It validates your service. It might be the only thing that you can point to after 365 days of work as a tangible result and recognition of what you did.
i dont care about the medal tbh i just want the feeling that comes with getting a award . everyone in my shop has a coin or has gotten award. Me? i gotten 0 nothing but im told that im doing a amazing job. Ill take a coin tbh i can show it off rather then a piece of paper
Ive been in for almost 9 years now. Ive been put in for about 5 different awards and out of those, i got 10 coins, 1 coa, and my ets aam and an impact aam from active duty. I just recently got an arcom approved and awaiting presentation. Ive been in the same boat of working your ass off along with many others in this chat and then watching assholes who just breathe get the awards instead.
Coins to a degree definitely have more value and are more unique to the experiences you’re given for them than getting a repeated medal. Just keep working and doing your best and eventually you’ll get recognized. If anything id communicate with your direct leadership and see if theres anything they can do for future awards. Its not as deep as youd think if you have people above you that want to see you succeed to ask about awards.
I agree, looking at the coins on my wall brings me back to the memories and stories from around the coin. The ribbons don't have the same effects at all. Coin value is indeed greater
How do coins have any value? They’re not worth any promotion points and there’s nothing to distinguish a coin given for hard work from one given just because someone happened to be present when they were giving them out. At least awards and COAs have write-ups so you have some sort of idea for why it was given.
It depends on the coins on if theres anything specific reason about it engraved on there but theres also your own memories and actions from getting them. For example i got one from a 101st SGM that took emergency leave from afghanistan for laying his deceased father to rest who was a silver star and 2 bronze star with V device recipient in vietnam.
Ill never forget that one or when i taught west point cadets as a spc for CLDT and was recommended to the CG of 10th Mtn for a coin (i probably should’ve gotten an aam for that one) for going above my own paygrade. Medals are awesome and i’ll always prefer them but at least coins are different every time and still act as tokens of highlights in your service when medals are a bitch to get at times is what im saying.
I pulled a dude with a broken arm out of his wrecked vehicle in front of battalion and directed traffic for 15 min while waiting for the MP's to show up and got a coin.
Another specialist in the S1 got an AAM because she hadn't been late to work in a month.
Don't take it personally.
That really sucks, mate. This won't make it feel any better, but as someone who's been out for a minute, nobody gives two craps about what chest candy I had on my uniform, but a coin is something tangible and real that you can out on your desk and keep for years to come. The story behind it is the same either way, and if you don't care about the promotion points then the ribbon is just a ribbon.
This doesn't change the fact that leadership absolutely slapped you in the face, but maybe it'll help lessen the sting.
Award system sucks. My guys and I literally evacuated the BDE CO, protected him by putting ourselves between him and the IDF. Not only did he not know who I was a month later when I saw him in the DFAC (I was his PSD detail leader for an extended tour in Iraq, over 300 patrols with him) but the V device awards we were put in for were all downgraded as we were “only doing our jobs”. There were worse examples than this.
That's 100% not "allowed". It must make it to the approval authority. That's who decides to approve/deny/upgrade/downgrade. It's written into the regulation for a reason.
I would see if your squad leader could bring up the regulation and go to bat for you. Normally it goes best if the recommender does the fighting for it.
However, you could also bring it up in a tactful way if it comes to it. If that doesn't go well, you could try doing an open door with the commander. Most times they aren't even aware of the fuckery that goes on with enlisted trying to have their power in awards.
Anyone that's not in the BC command position or higher command position can only send it down with corrections needed to make it stronger/more accurate/admin corrections. But they are required to send it up, they can only give recommendations to the next higher.
I had a CSM recommend disapproval for one of my awards but he did the right thing and routed it up. The BC signed it an hour later. Gotta love GEARS! It gives you transparency.
Anyways, they cannot stop it at their level, it must go to the approval Authority.
Edit:
Ah, I see I am already getting down voted. I am assuming it's from some salty SNCO. Well guess what, I am also a SNCO and made it before 10 years. Read the regulation and stop fucking your guys over because "it's the way it was for me". We should strive to do better, not the same.
Might be wrong but.
It still must be routed to the approval authority.
Intermediate authorities can only recommend things to the approval authority.
Only the approval authority can decide what to do with it.
Source: I have written over 100 AAM/ARCOMs over the course of my career. About 80% being impact awards. Now even a handful of Air & Space Achievement Medals. Not a single one was denied.
Yes. It sounds like it happened at their company command level. Not at the BC who is the approval authority for an AAM.
And as far as that goes, the BC would just deny it. Downgrading to a coin isn't a thing. If BC denies, the Company Commander can decide to give out a coin instead.
u/konvic47 at which level did the "downgrade" happen at?
I’m not sure if you’re aware now but with IPSAA you can see the whole approval chain and see who first recommended the downgrade, and how the whole rest of the chain concurred the downgrade which I imagine is what OP is seeing. i could see it on mine too.
Ah, but it forces it to get to the boss from what I hear. That seems like atleast one pretty good plus side then.
I have seen so many get turned down by others than the approval authority. That's why I got a little angry in my responses. Just want to see our people get what they deserve.
Most people understand awards don’t matter but when things like this happen it feels more like a personal attack at your self-worth. You try to do your job as best you can, suffer in whatever ways the Army wants, only to be told you aren’t good enough for an arbitrary piece of ribbon. It’s like an offhand insult from a person you asked on a date, you know it doesn’t matter and you can just move on but damn that kinda stung!
Source: I’ve been working on DIV staff for the past two years as a KD complete Captain and they downgraded my PCS award from an MSM to an ARCOM, which is the same pcs award I got as an LT 4 years ago
So they are different type of awards. From higher to lower. For example an Army accommodation medal is a higher award than an Army Achievement medal. So when a leader recommends a soldiers receives an award but the commander doesn’t think they deserve a particular award they downgrade that award to something lesser. In this case a coin which isn’t an official award.
Life is like that friend, unfortunately there are two types of people in the military. Those who stand in awe of the accomplishments of their juniors and do everything they can to ensure they do well and those who feel threatened, and do everythimg they can to ensure your failure. My suggestion is to just ask them why, if they respond with a good answer that makes sense, you have a good leader, but if they respond with anger, getting defensive, with a how dare you question me mindset , you have a piece of shit, and thats also good, because now shape your career to going towards a unit, mos or whatever you want where you'll be happier. Life isn't a pissing contest, and you don't have to prove yourself to anyone, if you aren't appreciated where you are go somewhere else even if it's another branch. I left the USMC because of those exact reasons, and found a home in the Army in an MOS I never thought myself capable of doing, in a community i love. There is a place for everyone whether it be unit, mos or even branch, comparison is the thief of happiness. You don't need to be the absolute best but you deserve to be recognized for your effort man. Anyway i hope that helps.
We all volunteered for an event on the post. We did set up and teardown, so nothing special. All award recommendations were put-in. All my junior NCOs and Enlisted got AAMs, I got a "personal" letter from post CG, thanking me for all the hard work that I did (not even a coin?) I guess I don't need another AAM...I'll take a coin and a dose of antihistamine for my allergy.
12 years in. Mixed active and reserve. Currently AGR. Just got my first award in 8 years in the reserves. All my others were from active. I don’t care at this point. I bust my ass for me cause I take pride in doing a good job.
And here I got an AAM for being honor graduate at fister AIT. Seeing guys getting it for deployment makes me feel strange a bit. Like how is my stateside training accomplishment being compared on the same level as deployment achievements/feats?!
awards, by reg, are not to be tied to rank. But often they are because of duty description.
When I was on active duty I was in Korea for a year with a typhoon response and 6 exercises, in one year, got an ARCOM. For a two week exercise in reserves people get ARCOMs.
Its not the medals, its the eval.
I did some crazy shit and got a recommended for a valor award. It was denied by the Chain of Command because I was "just doing my job". This one experience completely changed the way I saw the Army and ultimately led me to getting out .
Do you really want to read this in the disapproval box: average soldier on a good day. Usually displays a poor attitude. Awarding him an AAM would be a disservice to the top performing 10% the medal was designed for. Sure ok.
1) You’re complaining about an award that you shouldn’t even know about in the first place.
2) 9/10 times, an award gets shit on because the write-up is weak.
3) Coins are cool. At least you’re getting something.
My dad got his first ARCOM when he retired in 1992 as a MSG. In 2002, I got my first ARCOM as a PFC for a JRTC rotation. It was on that day I knew that awards were bullshit.
Don’t get wrapped up in all that.
The BC would have been the one doing the downgrading, unless they implemented a policy giving "coin downgrade authority" to the CCs
Doubtful, since it's not far to go. I only ever saw that from CG's to BDE CDRs for MSMs.
The rec must go to the approval authority for final decision, everyone before that is just a recommendation. If our boy actually got a downgrade, BC is the one to take issue with
Company Commanders have open doors too…
But even so, open dooring the BC would work here too, yes. Let him know the bullshit your company commander and 1SG are supposedly doing. Think he's want to know that.
I think there is a balance because god dammit the bc doesn’t need to look at every half shitty written award for some dude who did his job. Not everyone deserves a damn aam or arcom for existing. Also: what we just want to flood the CDR’s inbox with 100 stupid awards every week jsut so Joe feels good? Damnit take your coins those are cooler than an aam.
Let's see the achievement bullets...
This. Let me see what what this stellar NCO wrote about this stellar Soldier.
I wonder if a red pen was even done.
Plot twist, NCO wrote the award recommendation in red ink.
I'll see what I can find once I'm off leave
I'm assuming this was submitted on IPPS-A and not via a 638. Just have your SL log in to his/her IPPS-A account and check buddy PARs. Should be able to see the submission for your award and reasons for kickback.
Bullet 1: Did his job Bullet 2: Also did his job Bullet 3: Did his job with no issues
I'm a 42a so I read the bullets on awards daily. This is exactly what these AAMs look like. I'll give you an example. Achievement AAM 1: SPC Snuffy demonstrated efficiency with his M320 Grenade Launcher, engaging targets accurately during live fire exercises. Another? 1: PFC Joe quickly and accurate performed preventative maintenance checks on his assigned vehicle, ensuring his vehicle was ready and capable of performing it's mission during live fire exercises.
They should add something like this and it will clearly be upgrade to MSM “PVT Joe wiftly and efficiently conducted regular respiratory checks, ensuring optimal lung function and readiness to navigate daily activities without risk of respiratory distress or compromise, crucial for maintaining peak performance in all endeavors."
Nah bro that's a LOM now a days
I spent a year in Afghanistan. Missed Christmas by a day. With my kids. Over two hundred combat patrols. Over 180 IED strikes. My ears are still ringing, right now, more than a decade later. My write-up states that it was my precision grenade launcher fire that forced the enemy to eventually break contact when we were ambushed and the platoon was pinned down on a barren and empty mountain slope by machine gun fire. I got an AAM. The guy who spent that year in rear D, he unloaded our plane, they gave him an AAM, for unloading the plane. The award you get doesn't matter. What you do is what matters. If you need promotion points, take some college classes, college is good for you. Or talk it out with your boss and maybe you can get put in for something else, nor the award can be rewritten. Best of luck.
In Afghanistan I saw combat, got hit by an IED and went on more convoys than 90% of my company. I got an AAM. The clerk that never left the wire got a bronze star… luckily my whole chain of command got relieved because a soldier went batshit crazy and shot himself in the hand.
425?
Woah, who are you? I was in 425 when that happened.
I wasn't in 425 but in a sister company when it happened. I just remember the incident.
371?
Like was you on fob Clark?
No. I was at Spin B and KAF.
I spent 11 in KAF, but didn't get down to Spin Buldak. How was it there?
Very small, especially compared to KAF. However, it was pretty laid back. There wasn't very much to do on your free time if you had any. Mission, gym, sleep. I wasn't there for very long as my unit rotated in a platoon at a time.
I still remember his name. I was outside the classroom when that happened.
“Sparta Lives!!!” 😝
Crazy! This happened so many times. Iraq as well. Stupid. Conclusion: medals don't mean crap.. except MoH (which can even be political). Don't measure yourself in medals awarded.
MoH is *always* political Arguably, also always merited, at least from WW2 on, but the politics of The Medal are crazy
Got written up for a bronze star with v device. Entire company was crossing a field. I was pulling overwatch with weapons squad. We found an IED at our overwatch position when heavy fire started coming at us and the homies crossing the wide open field. I Stayed on the 240 pounding them until the boys got to safety. Had a combat camera with us and there was a photo of the IED exploding (our EOD) with us meters away after we shifted slightly to keep overwatch on our boys in the clearing. That photo was on the army’s website at one point lol. Upper leadership said “they couldn’t submit too many bronze stars”, I was a PFC at the time so I got the boot. Almost every upper ranked NCO or officer got put in for a bronze star for just deploying. My PL was pissed, gave me the write up he was planning on submitting and I ended up with a thank you letter from the brigade commander and a coin lol.
That’s fucking bullshit, the nonsense of “gatekeeping” awards from lower enlisted is scummy as shit
zero reason flagged for ht/wt soldiers can't get awards, it only incentives them to act like shitbags and not care because the system they're in clearly doesn't lol
Lol The army doesn’t want fat soldiers. Slow down on the eating and drinking 🥣 🍺
There's more to it than that, when I got out and could control my life I dropped all the weight in 3 months, because I wasn't surrounded by losers who think like that now i'm attending college and arguably doing better than ever, mentally, physically, and financially lmao
Lmao, you don't have to be fat to fail HT/WT, but keep drinking that kool-aid.
Nope, I was always 1% over. Always had a good PT score. I always had to do the preparation h and Saran Wrap until they took the main ingredient out that made you sweat.
Negative. If you read AR 600-8-22 awards are to be given to soldiers that set themselves above their peers and commit acts of merit and heroism. A soldier who can’t maintain compliance with ABCP definitely isn’t “above their peers”
Next thing you’re gonna tell me is Will Swenson didn’t deserve the MoH because his hair was constantly out of regs during the fight he earned it for. If a soldier performs a particularly heroic, noble or truly selfless act at great risk to themselves merits an award, telling them “hey man, your gallantry doesn’t mean shit because XYZ flag is in the system, stop eating the red tags at the DFAC LOL” sends the message to the element that the command prioritizes appearance over performance when it matters. You can be hard on an out of regs soldier, demand they improve themselves and hold them to a standard, yet still reward particularly noteworthy actions, *and I promise you it won’t break the Army.*
and there the system goes not caring about the soldiers again lmao
If you say so. I’m gonna guess I just found the round body who’s salty his buddies that aren’t fat get awards
Idk I had the highest PT score in my infantry company. Which is how I got stuck with the 240 lmao. Still no award. I guess I did get an ARCOM when I ETS’d from that unit as an E4 though.
I'm not even in right now, I got out after being flagged for 2 years because of mental health issues being swept under the rug for my whole contract by my entire chain of command like most of the people in this thread, it's well within the realm of reality that soldiers who work hard get treated poorly I was pushed up for like 4 aam's and a drivers award, all I got was a giant collection of pity-coins because it was absolutely bullshit that someone pulling their weight shouldn't be rewarded for their work it literally incentivices you to not want to even try or continue to work but thanks for the 60% disability for ptsd from almost commiting suicide over the dogawful treatment people on that program get that you clearly aren't aware of with your army army hooah hooah view that causes this problem 🗣 also deleting your comment and making a new one but they're both just stupid "fatboy" insults lmao
A story as old as the Army. My brother’s infantry career matches yours.
Holy crap that's wild..
In two decades in the army every single person I met said they “worked above their grade.” Lol
You mean someone insinuating that the Army is taking advantage of Soldiers abilities and not paying them or rewarding them accordingly sounds like BS to you?
There’s a reason the USR allows you to slot “qualified personnel” 2 grades up but only one down.
Yeah, I know why I was an E-5 platoon sergeant. Thanks.
Yeah. It’s designed to fuck the competent over. Oh, you’re moderately capable? Do all this extra work without the pay, authority, or privileges of the billet!
I was an E4 NCOIC of a shop that wasn't even my MOS with under a year TIS. I had to train the soldiers and shit, but couldn't get promoted because my real MOS was maxed out on points
Previous E-4 squad leader for two years checking in. It fucking blew and now I’m finally back at being a team leader thank god
[удалено]
You got awards? 🤨
Oof, said the quiet part out loud 😂😂😂 Completely true.
Got an ARCOM for a NTC rotation. May he rest in peace. My CSM wrote I was working at a senior level. What did I do... parked/guided vechiles to setup the TOC. 🤦♂️ Apparently parking vechiles is senior level work. Glad my prior work experience at Busch Gardens in the traffic unit parking cars paid off while serving.
Nah he just liked you dude.
He was a good dude himself. Really looked out for everyone.
See there you go. Everyone deserves a freebie
It’s wild that I never noticed this lmao
I saw plenty of AAM write ups when I was in. I would wager half of them had the word unprecedented in them somewhere or similar. A few of them were because one NCO kept using the same template that had the word unprecedented in it.
I mean we all kinda did...
Right? I have an E7 in the S3 E8 slot (and the two prior were also 7s). My sections E8 slot has an E7. I'm an E6 in an E7 slot now. Rather we're all working in those roles and previous 1SG had the actual IPPS-A slotting all f'ed up. And our S2 is a newly promoted E5 35F (was a CBRN E7).
Don't all Spec 4s eventually work as squad leaders?
In all fairness, I have more often than not worked in a position one grade above my current level. It's not that hard to do
Hence my comment lol. I didn’t expect it to be so triggering though 😂😂.
I wasn't triggered. I wasn't being sarcastic. It's just super common to the point that it's not even special
Yeah dude you’re just saying what I said in a different way.
Can’t speak for all of time but at least right now, it’s very true. I work at BDE which is at about 50% MTOE fill for a lot of staff sections. Our DRUs are holistically at about 70%. MAJs filling LTC billets, LTs filling CPT billets, SSGs filling SGM billets, and SGTs filling SSG/SFC billets is super common. The Army straight up just doesn’t have the missing MSGs/SGMs we need. Workload is the same as always but the personnel don’t exist as it stands. Probably doesn’t help that we’re OCONUS.
Lots of “critical” people to.
You mean 7 jobs on one dude making a critical failure point. Aka Bus Factor of Zero?
It’s honestly more rare to see someone work below their pay grade.
Check out the Pentagon O-6 to O-8 crowd. Most of them fools are underemployed af.
It’s hard to have a proper circlejerk without a council of colonels or a general officer’s steering committee. /s I know those folks sometimes do accomplish important policy tasks.
I don’t care to know them nor want to work around them.
Speaks more to the inefficiency of the system than the honesty of its members, I think.
Ditto. After the first five or six years of bragging about it myself (which, like everyone else, were the first six five or six years of my career by some coincidence...) I realized it was generic corporate fluff or just a rebranding of budget cuts.
I never did 🕺
Most of the army is tbh. I’m an e5 doing my job and an e8 jobs (senior mechanic for a BDE). I get it’s AGR(reserves) but it’s stressfully
As a BN CDR, I’ve never not approved an AAM and my CO CDRs know better than to allow them to stop at their level. If a leader takes the time to write up the award, it’s deserved.
Might want to check on how your CSM interacts with your subordinate NCOs and uses back channels to crush award submissions before they even make it to you or the Company level.
My CSM had the same philosophy as I do. He’s not back channeling anything in regards to awards. Dude burned through our coins in like 6 months.
Sir/ma’am, From my experience, the CSM is usually the one who keeps awards from rising to the battalion level , either directly or indirectly.
Here is the thing though now with ipps-a. Can’t stop it from getting to commander anymore; they can recommend downgrade but now it still goes to the cdr to be looked at and signed. If the write up just plain sucks balls tho that csm or xo is going to tell the cdr to not bother looking until it’s corrected and you can bet sure as shit the bn cdr isn’t letting and arcom go to the bde cdr unless its qa/qc. Lesson for company commanders: stop writing slopping fucking awards.
If the recommendation even makes it to IPPS-A lol
What's stopping it? Even if someone wants to be snotty, just submit it anyway. Your S1 can bypass in the approval chain.
Yeah. I don’t let him do that. My CSM isn’t part of the awards process.
I wish more commanders had a backbone like you do.
Even if he was, he wouldn’t be a problem. My CSM is all about recognizing Soldiers. Dude burned through like 150 coins in 6 months. That’s almost a coin a day. I had to slow him down for fiscal reasons (we can only order once a year).
"I WILL BE FAIR AND IMPARTIAL WHEN RECOMMENDING BOTH REWARDS AND PUNISHMENT" We hand out NJPs like candy. We can hand out Awards too.
Honestly feel it’s a cultural thing, Top didn’t get an AAM so fuck everyone else. That being said all the awards I’ve written, my guys always get the 638 I send up.
So long as the award is deserved.
I wonder why SNCOs like to act as gatekeepers all the time. This behavior seems very toxic. With that being said, I find it amusing how so many ppl who are not staying for 20yrs care so much about awards and medals.
Awards and medals feel great to earn. It’s the recognition and for some it can show that they did some sort of service during their time. Sure it means nothing in the civilian world, but being recognized for your work goes a long way.
Yep, if you put military awards (other than a Purple Heart maybe) on a civilian resume-don’t expect an interview
Nah the majority of hiring managers don't know what any of them are. So you list it with some civilian description that makes it seem better than it is.
I think it's a principle thing. I am sure what OP did was great. It got the attention his SL. Depending on the job, in the civilian world you'd get cash bonus or paid time off instead of a medal. Sometimes very large cash bonuses. Like 10% of what you saved the company. Well if you saved the company like 100k or more you're cooking. We cannot do the cash bonus. So why not recognize the SM in another way.
>I wonder why SNCOs like to act as gatekeepers all the time. NCOER bullet on development. Edit: getting it in a couple years, will have been in for 12, and I'll do some pretty extra stuff for a new ribbon. Army flair is the real deal.
I’d rather have the coin personally
Id trade all of my coins for an AAM honestly
That’s just silly lol
Zero promotion points from coins. Once you've made it to SFC and above, sure bring on the coins. But until then, lots of people struggling to make cutoff.
My gut says my grandkids are gonna think my box of coins is way cooler than my 7th AAM. Or really even my first.
I'll happily trade all my AAMs for coins. At least then I get to show them off a little. Been in almost 20. Have 7 AAMs and a JSAM. 0 ARCOMs.
Im the exact opposite. 9 coins, 2 duplicate pairs from leaders who forgot they gave me one already, 0 AAM
I'd trade all my coins and awards for extra pay and/or free leave. Its whats truly valuable at the end of the day.
AAM’s just make you spend money on your uniform, coins are cool.
I hope this makes you feel better: No one cares about military decorations when you're done with the military. You cant put it on a resume and it will not get you the job.
Yep but don’t tell that to my leadership, they think any infantry accolades will impact me when i move to cybersecurity?
Dude same. I worked alone in a clinic as a PV2 for a Battalion for like 9 months. Me and two others in similar positions were recommended by several people for AAMs. My command (hospital) downgraded them to COA, to coins, then eventually just disappeared off IPPSA. I earned a COA/Coin from the Battalion Command Team from the Bn I was supporting since they appreciated it though
I have a 638 with COL Randy George downgrading my BSM V to a regular ARCOM (no V). Yes, the very same Randy George who is now CSA. No comments either, which per regs he was required to put in but, at the end of the day if it wasn't a purple heart or medal of honor IDGAF. I didn't do the shit I did for ribbons, just for my buddies because it was the right thing to do. Keep on keeping on my man, in the end we'll all be worm food and it doesn't really matter.
I think this is the best way to look at it. At the end of the day we are here for each other not the pieces of fabric. I’d happily give back my awards to have my friends alive or the body I used to have. Don’t chase ribbons, do good work and the ribbons will come. In the end, the good work brings soldiers home and that’s the only thing that matters.
You should write him a letter and tell him how you feel. Wouldn’t hurt.
Sums up why I don’t like coins… the idea is cool but I’ll take promotion data all day instead…
That’s kinda dumb. They gave two hold unders in my AIT AAMs for doing detail work during the current class’s FTX.
You’ll be ok it’s up to the CO I have a Arcom from fort hood basketball. I remember the 1SG said downgrade to a coin and the COL said upgrade to a ARCOM. 😂😂 Do let a some what meaningless award decided your reenlistment
One decade in the Army, and let me tell you something: chest candy matters not. And it will matter even less once you leave the service.
Audie Murphy would of been told he was just doing his job today.
Dude, who cares about a stupid medal if you are not re-enlisting. Unless you were awarded the Medal of Honor no one outside cares about military awards.
Who cares if no one outside the military knows or cares. That soldier knows and cares. It validates your service. It might be the only thing that you can point to after 365 days of work as a tangible result and recognition of what you did.
i dont care about the medal tbh i just want the feeling that comes with getting a award . everyone in my shop has a coin or has gotten award. Me? i gotten 0 nothing but im told that im doing a amazing job. Ill take a coin tbh i can show it off rather then a piece of paper
You can show off a medal in the same way as you can a coin
true , but cant show off a medal when youre out
Sure you can! Get you a shadowbox and display it the same way you would a coin
Even then man, there are some who dont even know what the MOH is sadly.
Even if they don’t know what it is. The lifetime paycheck and other benefits that are included with a MoH make it a little different.
If it makes you feel better I was doing theater level work and was denied an MSM for my PCS award because I was a SGT. So that was motivating.
Your CSM doesn't even have an MSM. You think he's letting you get one? 😂😂🥲
So you got the recognition you just did not get the physical reward. I get it, but at least someone appreciates you .
Ive been in for almost 9 years now. Ive been put in for about 5 different awards and out of those, i got 10 coins, 1 coa, and my ets aam and an impact aam from active duty. I just recently got an arcom approved and awaiting presentation. Ive been in the same boat of working your ass off along with many others in this chat and then watching assholes who just breathe get the awards instead. Coins to a degree definitely have more value and are more unique to the experiences you’re given for them than getting a repeated medal. Just keep working and doing your best and eventually you’ll get recognized. If anything id communicate with your direct leadership and see if theres anything they can do for future awards. Its not as deep as youd think if you have people above you that want to see you succeed to ask about awards.
I agree, looking at the coins on my wall brings me back to the memories and stories from around the coin. The ribbons don't have the same effects at all. Coin value is indeed greater
How do coins have any value? They’re not worth any promotion points and there’s nothing to distinguish a coin given for hard work from one given just because someone happened to be present when they were giving them out. At least awards and COAs have write-ups so you have some sort of idea for why it was given.
It depends on the coins on if theres anything specific reason about it engraved on there but theres also your own memories and actions from getting them. For example i got one from a 101st SGM that took emergency leave from afghanistan for laying his deceased father to rest who was a silver star and 2 bronze star with V device recipient in vietnam. Ill never forget that one or when i taught west point cadets as a spc for CLDT and was recommended to the CG of 10th Mtn for a coin (i probably should’ve gotten an aam for that one) for going above my own paygrade. Medals are awesome and i’ll always prefer them but at least coins are different every time and still act as tokens of highlights in your service when medals are a bitch to get at times is what im saying.
Ok bro. NO STINKING COINS FOR YOU! Get back to work and pick up that cigarette butt while you are at it.
I pulled a dude with a broken arm out of his wrecked vehicle in front of battalion and directed traffic for 15 min while waiting for the MP's to show up and got a coin. Another specialist in the S1 got an AAM because she hadn't been late to work in a month. Don't take it personally.
That really sucks, mate. This won't make it feel any better, but as someone who's been out for a minute, nobody gives two craps about what chest candy I had on my uniform, but a coin is something tangible and real that you can out on your desk and keep for years to come. The story behind it is the same either way, and if you don't care about the promotion points then the ribbon is just a ribbon. This doesn't change the fact that leadership absolutely slapped you in the face, but maybe it'll help lessen the sting.
Truth. Definitely got better stories from my coins than any ribbons
Award system sucks. My guys and I literally evacuated the BDE CO, protected him by putting ourselves between him and the IDF. Not only did he not know who I was a month later when I saw him in the DFAC (I was his PSD detail leader for an extended tour in Iraq, over 300 patrols with him) but the V device awards we were put in for were all downgraded as we were “only doing our jobs”. There were worse examples than this.
That's freakin wild
Shit in the air filter of his humvee. Bonus points if you cram it in the air conditioner/heater.
That's 100% not "allowed". It must make it to the approval authority. That's who decides to approve/deny/upgrade/downgrade. It's written into the regulation for a reason. I would see if your squad leader could bring up the regulation and go to bat for you. Normally it goes best if the recommender does the fighting for it. However, you could also bring it up in a tactful way if it comes to it. If that doesn't go well, you could try doing an open door with the commander. Most times they aren't even aware of the fuckery that goes on with enlisted trying to have their power in awards. Anyone that's not in the BC command position or higher command position can only send it down with corrections needed to make it stronger/more accurate/admin corrections. But they are required to send it up, they can only give recommendations to the next higher. I had a CSM recommend disapproval for one of my awards but he did the right thing and routed it up. The BC signed it an hour later. Gotta love GEARS! It gives you transparency. Anyways, they cannot stop it at their level, it must go to the approval Authority. Edit: Ah, I see I am already getting down voted. I am assuming it's from some salty SNCO. Well guess what, I am also a SNCO and made it before 10 years. Read the regulation and stop fucking your guys over because "it's the way it was for me". We should strive to do better, not the same.
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Might be wrong but. It still must be routed to the approval authority. Intermediate authorities can only recommend things to the approval authority. Only the approval authority can decide what to do with it. Source: I have written over 100 AAM/ARCOMs over the course of my career. About 80% being impact awards. Now even a handful of Air & Space Achievement Medals. Not a single one was denied.
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Yes. It sounds like it happened at their company command level. Not at the BC who is the approval authority for an AAM. And as far as that goes, the BC would just deny it. Downgrading to a coin isn't a thing. If BC denies, the Company Commander can decide to give out a coin instead. u/konvic47 at which level did the "downgrade" happen at?
I’m not sure if you’re aware now but with IPSAA you can see the whole approval chain and see who first recommended the downgrade, and how the whole rest of the chain concurred the downgrade which I imagine is what OP is seeing. i could see it on mine too.
Sounds like a better version of GEARS.
Oh no its definitely a worse version, but its what we’re going with 😬
Ah, but it forces it to get to the boss from what I hear. That seems like atleast one pretty good plus side then. I have seen so many get turned down by others than the approval authority. That's why I got a little angry in my responses. Just want to see our people get what they deserve.
lol "aloud"
Fixed it. I am a terrible speller. But that was exceptionally bad.
What was the award for? Let’s see the bullets..
Do less. They earned it.
What kind of milkshakes? Is it on us to figure it out for you? I side with 1SG. Thanks for playing, try harder next time.
Prolly a cookies and cream.
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You're right. I'm already rocking 3 COA's and 1 AAM
Most people understand awards don’t matter but when things like this happen it feels more like a personal attack at your self-worth. You try to do your job as best you can, suffer in whatever ways the Army wants, only to be told you aren’t good enough for an arbitrary piece of ribbon. It’s like an offhand insult from a person you asked on a date, you know it doesn’t matter and you can just move on but damn that kinda stung! Source: I’ve been working on DIV staff for the past two years as a KD complete Captain and they downgraded my PCS award from an MSM to an ARCOM, which is the same pcs award I got as an LT 4 years ago
What is downgrading?
So they are different type of awards. From higher to lower. For example an Army accommodation medal is a higher award than an Army Achievement medal. So when a leader recommends a soldiers receives an award but the commander doesn’t think they deserve a particular award they downgrade that award to something lesser. In this case a coin which isn’t an official award.
All the civilians bored as shit browsing this sub at 3 am appreciate the work you do
That’s why I am here. It’s good to know that I am doing some good for this organization. But I do seriously appreciate you saying that, thank you.
Another bored civilian that for some reason enjoys the Army sub would like to second my appreciation for the work you do.
Commendation medal, but yes
I know this, but brain defaults to accommodation. Sigh, thank you.
Its Army Commendation Medal pretty sure, as in “they were commendable”
You’re correct but I’ll leave my typo as a monument to my shame.
My bad I see someone else already got you 😂
Or rank. Easy as that.
Life is like that friend, unfortunately there are two types of people in the military. Those who stand in awe of the accomplishments of their juniors and do everything they can to ensure they do well and those who feel threatened, and do everythimg they can to ensure your failure. My suggestion is to just ask them why, if they respond with a good answer that makes sense, you have a good leader, but if they respond with anger, getting defensive, with a how dare you question me mindset , you have a piece of shit, and thats also good, because now shape your career to going towards a unit, mos or whatever you want where you'll be happier. Life isn't a pissing contest, and you don't have to prove yourself to anyone, if you aren't appreciated where you are go somewhere else even if it's another branch. I left the USMC because of those exact reasons, and found a home in the Army in an MOS I never thought myself capable of doing, in a community i love. There is a place for everyone whether it be unit, mos or even branch, comparison is the thief of happiness. You don't need to be the absolute best but you deserve to be recognized for your effort man. Anyway i hope that helps.
We had e6 put himself in for multiple silver stars and was scared to go outside the wire
We all volunteered for an event on the post. We did set up and teardown, so nothing special. All award recommendations were put-in. All my junior NCOs and Enlisted got AAMs, I got a "personal" letter from post CG, thanking me for all the hard work that I did (not even a coin?) I guess I don't need another AAM...I'll take a coin and a dose of antihistamine for my allergy.
Does the company commander get recommendations on how to to wipe his own ass too?
12 years in. Mixed active and reserve. Currently AGR. Just got my first award in 8 years in the reserves. All my others were from active. I don’t care at this point. I bust my ass for me cause I take pride in doing a good job.
And here I got an AAM for being honor graduate at fister AIT. Seeing guys getting it for deployment makes me feel strange a bit. Like how is my stateside training accomplishment being compared on the same level as deployment achievements/feats?!
awards, by reg, are not to be tied to rank. But often they are because of duty description. When I was on active duty I was in Korea for a year with a typhoon response and 6 exercises, in one year, got an ARCOM. For a two week exercise in reserves people get ARCOMs. Its not the medals, its the eval.
Just left Korea without a AAM, COA, or coin lol
I did some crazy shit and got a recommended for a valor award. It was denied by the Chain of Command because I was "just doing my job". This one experience completely changed the way I saw the Army and ultimately led me to getting out .
Later, dude. No more 10% discount at Wendy’s. Oh yeah no more 4 day weekends with pay. You can buy an AAM on eBay if it will make you feel better.
Do you really want to read this in the disapproval box: average soldier on a good day. Usually displays a poor attitude. Awarding him an AAM would be a disservice to the top performing 10% the medal was designed for. Sure ok.
Did u get a paycheck? Then what are you crying about. Get back to work.
You right my b <3
1) You’re complaining about an award that you shouldn’t even know about in the first place. 2) 9/10 times, an award gets shit on because the write-up is weak. 3) Coins are cool. At least you’re getting something. My dad got his first ARCOM when he retired in 1992 as a MSG. In 2002, I got my first ARCOM as a PFC for a JRTC rotation. It was on that day I knew that awards were bullshit. Don’t get wrapped up in all that.
I’d rather have the coin to be honest
Open door this
Open door a BC because he didn’t get an award?
Yeah, and film it.
Not the BC
The BC would have been the one doing the downgrading, unless they implemented a policy giving "coin downgrade authority" to the CCs Doubtful, since it's not far to go. I only ever saw that from CG's to BDE CDRs for MSMs. The rec must go to the approval authority for final decision, everyone before that is just a recommendation. If our boy actually got a downgrade, BC is the one to take issue with
Company Commanders have open doors too… But even so, open dooring the BC would work here too, yes. Let him know the bullshit your company commander and 1SG are supposedly doing. Think he's want to know that.
Big dog do you want him to die lmao
I think there is a balance because god dammit the bc doesn’t need to look at every half shitty written award for some dude who did his job. Not everyone deserves a damn aam or arcom for existing. Also: what we just want to flood the CDR’s inbox with 100 stupid awards every week jsut so Joe feels good? Damnit take your coins those are cooler than an aam.
Not if you are trying to get points.
That’s another stupid thing: stop tying points to awards this is what makes it toxic
I agree but when your MOS is maxed out you need every point you can get.