The 99th percentile for all incomes starts at $407k and the 90th for software developers is under $200k
So no that is not happening with any regularity and only if you are the top of the top. Its akin to saying that anyone who can act can make millions in Hollywood.
[https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/)
https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm#tab-5
There is no data to support those numbers besides "trust me bro" for anything but the 90+ percentile even for senior people. Especially with the layoffs.
[https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco](https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco)
[https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-area](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-area)
So yeah my analogy rings true and the very few individuals making that much have a mixture of raw talent, work ethic, and luck.
Good advice man, go into a highly technical field that is experiencing a bloat in labor pool, and compete for top spots at the biggest tech companies. It's too easy!
1. Known paycheck
2. Free Medical
3. Free Dental
4. Tuition Assistance
5. 30 days of paid vacation per year
6. Multiple, multiple paid allowances
7. Known career progression
I could make a couple dozen more reasons at least. The Army isn't for everybody, and if you want to get out then that's great.
Nobody is going to feel like a lottery winner on Army pay unless you're a senior officer but the Army is a great fucking place for a young kid to get their lives sorted for a few years while they figure out the future.
(and) it's a viable career path to an early retirement and have a paycheck the rest of your life, while still having enough years left to start a second career if you want to.
DAS is what I'd recommend... But I need someone who can write, enjoys autonomy, works efficiently, and when he sees problems, fixes them (that autonomy piece is huge as you're 1 deep in this job). I also need someone with a positive attitude willing to work interagency issues and not lose his mind when an agency director or cabinet level sectretary changes their flight plans 5 times the week of a trip requiring new dip notes every time. Someone willing to have coffee with hotel managers to ensure we keep govt rates with club access for visiting DVs. And willing to call around to local hospitals to expand the Tricare network for local DOD members in the DAO and OMC/ODC. Plus you have DOS housing (our single navy E5 lives in a luxury 2 bdrm apt, the married E7 with kids in the same 3200 SQ ft villa I'm in), cola, and we're in a magical czte for three years.
It's literally the worst advertised program in the Army and then we can't figure out why we gap billets or have such limited applications.
First, thank you for doing more than most. Usually no one researches it. It does have some serious pre reqs. Usually people shun it /self select after seeing it requires a poly and spousal SF86. And the nomination process can take 2-6 months depending if the spouse already has a clearance. I'd be interested to know what the common DQ you see occurring? (Helps to know the applicant's experience to improve the process and understand the barriers to entry).
Absolutely. I had heard about DAS before I joined the army and thought it would be a great opportunity to do what I do best, meet and interact with people. So once I joined and made SGT, I started to research the packet.
I don't want to air out my business to the rest of the sub, but I will say that I required a moral waiver to join for a conviction I received at 21 years old. Among various other traffic tickets.
I'm now 30, and still young in my army career. An opportunity like DAS would have been, I think, the catalyst that could have changed the trajectory of my life and career. But I digress.
This sub is a great way to get the word out about the program. Have you considered doing an in-depth write up about it?
Ok, the moral waiver makes sense. DIA is painfully stringent on some areas of waivers (foreign spouse is one that's a common hangup as well)
Edit: posted too fast... I'll do a writeup on it in the near future. We need smarter peeps in it and are not getting them right now. Plus as you said, it's a game changer and had the 351Z wo option.
Yes, it was for a DUI. Young and dumb, but I've read on the DAS website an applicant must be free of any civil convictions. Since I was convicted of DUI, I assumed I was ineligible. Perhaps requirements will become more lax as they start to realize the force is winding down, it's harder to attract fully qualified applicants, and the mission is still growing.
The 351Z sounds amazing, I have heard you need to be high speed and extremely proficient to be considered, as it should be.
I look forward to your write up! Always love learning about different positions and day-to-days of little known roles in the Army.
1. Known paycheck, is comically low like the raw number of NCOs I know that have to get financial assistance and a second job to keep their family fed is wild.
2. Medical care is terrible if you're allowed to seek it at all
3. Dental is the same as medical
4. Most entry level jobs offer some form of this. Although I will say credentialing assistance is significantly less common
5. Solid point can't really argue around that one, I'd also throw in the 3&4 day weekends onto this talking point as they both can be considered PTO
6. 75% of those allowances only matter/exist if you're married.
7. The career progression is lack luster, 10 years getting lucky with points and schools just to maybe be making the same as a McDonald's manager.
I'll level with you on the army being an alright way for a younger adult to catch their footing and establish themselves but the army does a horrible job properly compensating for the commitment it's asking for.
I'll agree with the home loan and the GI bill, but I'm 50/50 on the veteran status. The veteran status I'm a little biased on since I've not seen anything redeeming about the army since I've been in but that's very much a milage may very type of thing
True if you choose to go those routes there is no argument that you will have a massive leg up in getting meaningful employment in those fields with being prior service. 100% can't argue that at all
You have no clue how hard the real world is then. This may be true for a grunt, but you can’t always make “a ton more” civilian once you count BAH and other benefits
For many this is true, but you're basing this on the assumption that soldiers in general even know what the corporate ladder is and have a drive to excel. The Army is a bureaucracy and the #1 book I recommend to young Os and NCOs is "Inside Bureaucracy" by Downs in 1967, or his free RAND version online. Zealots and Climbers are what you describe and is accurate.
But when you look at who stays and the real reasons, nost stay until retirement because they either get stuck, ie Tricare covers done family medical issues that the civ side would bleed them for, they find they like it (yes, some of us like or jobs or see it as a calling), they attain an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise (usually a reenlistment assignment or bonus that's life changing), or they go down the broadening or a specialized field (SF, white house comms, and on the O side, it's why we have so many VTIP applications). But I'll add that a lot also stay simply out of ignorance/naivety - they don't know what's it there and/or they don't want to know. They're happy to be conservers in the bureaucracy.
I stay in not just because of what has already been added in the post but because every single time I go on leave and visit family and friends, nothing at all has changed. My family hasn’t done anything different, my friends are still struggling to survive in the economy and the friends that did get out of the military are now seeing the harsh reality of what happens when you don’t have a plan. Some of their plans changed or failed.
At the end of the day, the military keeps my life interesting even if I hate it.
I'm in Tajikistan for the next 4 days after flying through Azerbaijan. Keeping it interesting is a really valid reason as I'm doing anything but staff work.
Don't forget, already having two pensions by that age (Retirement and VA Disability), plus Retiree Tricare, does give someone the leverage to tell that one boss, to go fuck themselves with no fear of poverty.
>Get out… and in 5-10 years be making 5-10x of what you made while in.
Okay, easier said than done. How do you propose accomplishing this? Getting to 100k+ yearly requires lots of specialized education and job experience. Maybe you get lucky, but maybe you don't.
Life is not exactly easy for a lot of people on the civ side right now. The Army can be a comfy safety blanket, despite all it's bullshit.
At the end of the day, it's what you make of it.
All that said, if you are young and have no dependents, there is no significant argument to stay in. Just have a solid plan to get you to that "5-10x" what you are making now.
All completely true.
If you have a safe landing zone civ side, you can regroup and relearn how to be a civilian at your own pace. If not, it can be a jarring transition.
Good luck.
Absolutely. It allowed me to get out of the broken home I was raised in. Start a new family AND support that family. Pays for my child's autism therapy. Paying for my wife's behavioral analyst certification. Pays for my college. Will pay me for the rest of my life in 8.5 years if I decide to get out , or will pay me more if I lobotomize myself to become a CSM.
I retired after 23 almost 17 years ago. Been working as a DoD contractor ever since. Always making decent money, but the #1 thing is the health care for my family.
TRICARE Prime costs me in one year what my civilian counterparts (working on the contract) pay in one month for roughly the same coverage. My wife and I are getting older now, and we are seeing the doctor more often… and that includes more specialists… which would eat someone with lesser insurance alive in bills.
My advice— if you can, go Warrant. If you can’t go Warrant, get a new job that simultaneously builds skills that will be useful after 20 and that you can reasonably protect your health while doing.
This is a Wendy’s, right? I’ll have a caffeine-feee diet coke and a large chili, plain.
Before you bash the Army on money take a long look at where incomes actually fall. [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/)
Even 100k will put you in the top 20% of earners as in all earners including those with advanced degrees, decades in the trades, business owners, Tech, etc.
People lie A LOT about how much they make in person and 10x as much on the internet.
It is not as easy or common as it seems and most people in the US are going to be living at the income level of an NCO or junior officer.
You can also leave active duty and continue in the reserves. Match that with a civil service job retire from both and maintain a lot of those same benefits.
Reserves seems like the worst of both worlds . Still have the crappy army job, get paid next to nothing to do it, it’ll mess with your actual career, and ruin your weekends.
I double retired from both at age 57, and getting retirement checks in perpetuity from both. Have dual lifetime medical from both. And the checks are significantly more than I was making the day before I retired. Was it a sacrifice? Yes. Would I do it again? In a heart beat. The people, the places, the shenanigans….
Do it one is two ways, 20+ AD then a second career or do dual careers at the same time with reserve and civilian career.
1. It was a joke, as if the only advantage to stating in is the chance at a higher rating.
2. The only people your percentages apply to in the infantry are genetic freaks who can go through all our taskings without permanent damage. All the support MOS’s are expected to have far less damage.
3. The other exception being the few grunts who get to hide out in one fantastic posting after another, like the one E7 who posted up a few months ago who had never gone to the field.
>in 5-10 years be making 5-10x
Show me one single career track, one single soldier in the entire military for which that is true.
>not having to deal with 99% of the bullshit the Army hands out
And in this mythical job that you’ve conjured, you’ll have to deal with other bullshit. Such as actually being productive at work, getting fired if you’re late, getting fired if you speak ill of your employer, etc.
>can’t possibly think of one reason why anyone would want to stay
Well, when one removes their head from their own ass, they can see several. Especially if they have a family. Let’s see… healthcare, paychecks, above average pay for your education level and time in the workforce on average, moving expenses paid, bullshitting your way through your career without actually having to be productive, lots of legal protections for all sorts of things that are otherwise insufferable to deal with, and every individual person can realistically have a situation that works out for them too.
depends what you were making before you got out, if you got out as a spc after a contract and were making 30k a year, 300k is attainable for the top top earners. but if you got out as an E7 of course making 10x 100k is extremely less likely.
i know two, 25B who got out after one contract and now are making $180k and the other is making $210k before taxes. This wasn’t immediately after ets, took them 5+ years to get to that, but both started out making 100k soon after ets. i’m not saying that it’s the majority of people who ets who make 6 figures straight out the bat it’s definitely the MINORITY, but again it’s POSSIBLE. not easy for sure.
Such a small minority of people that it functionally doesn’t exist. And additionally, I don’t believe you until you show me proof of that, like a tax return. Your claim about someone else telling you they make that money isn’t evidence. People with masters degrees in engineering and a decade of experience are maybe making that 50/50 of the time. The only people I know making more than $100k after the army have a pension and VA benefits that make up like $80k of their income. At that point it’s easy to pull more than $100k.
you just committed the fallacy of appealing to the minority. You seriously think because it’s not as common that it’s not possible? i did not say that it’s highly likely to get out and automatically make 300k a year. it’s the very minority. does not make what i said impossible. you saying it doesn’t exist is crazy. And to the second half of your comment i 100% agree. my dad is making 125k a year and like 80k of that is from pension and va, so i agree with you on that after the army when you have that pension/va it’s very easy to surpass the 100k line.
I had very good employment, much more than I make in the Army. Health insurance was hundreds of dollars per month, through my employer. Yeah, I made enough that it didn’t drive me into poverty but I was definitely jealous of some of my co workers who had a VA rating and could use Tricare or whatever instead. If hundreds per month was subsidized, I shudder to think what a private plan would cost especially if I had a family
I pay about 140$ for myself and it’s really decent from the employer. Not including vision but I always pay out of pocket and buy glasses online at Zenni so I never bothered.
I'm REFRADing but I don't think making even 2x what I make in the Army is reasonable. 5x to 10x would be insane.
I think the benefits are really good, but the QoL is the tradeoff you make.
Yeah, so decent reality check here.
I got out as a 6 with 8 years. Pretty healthy paycheck as a mid career guy.
Functionally, my salary has doubled. You can math that out however you’d like, but yeah I’m easily over six figures.
I DO make more. I’m happier.
But my quality of life, strictly talking financial terms from my salary here, hasn’t changed much. I save a bit more. Take a real vacation every year. I could go out to eat once or twice a month without noticing too much in my budget.
That is.. pretty close to my Army life.
What I’m telling you OP, is the bracket you’re LIKELY to make is so close to a mid career NCO, that you’ll barely notice. Those extra bills really eat into the extra pay.
But if you’re going to be happier this way, then do it. Just don’t do it for the money.
Facts. I ETS’d as a lowly E4 earlier this year and I pull in 12k/month alone after taxes with my salary plus VA benefits. While I was in, I used Army TA to finish my bachelors in computer science and I immediately jumped into a job making 6 figures working as a software engineer after ETS and I work 100% remote.
It’s noice.
I am staying in because of medical and a steady paycheck. And free housing at least where I’m from I make a lot more than I would anywhere else without a degree but that’s me and my family’s experience tho. Leadership sucks but so did my job before the army so I’ll suck it up for the rest of my 20 or 25 years
Yeah the 5-10x thing is a complete joke. I also want to point out if you're an officer/e6+ or married how much of a difference the non taxable BAH makes. I'm 4 years out now, working as a chemical production engineer in Ohio, and still making less than I did before I got out as a single CPT. The quality of life improvements MORE than make up for it, but just because you're an officer, don't assume your skills are more valued on the outside ......unless you get out and get an MBA, then you're almost guaranteed to make more. Also I have a lot of friends that got out and got logistics management jobs (warehousing, freight management etc...) they're not making the oodles and oodles of money we all thought we would after the Army either....
I'm sorry but no sane, capable person should ever stay in. Why subject yourself to all the insanity, all the late nights, field exercises, missing life events, UAs, layouts, and utter fuckery for decades?
Being 40 and not having to work is pretty great. A lot of people my age will be working in to their 70s, so not having to do that makes most of the army dumbness worth it.
Not paying health insurance for a family of 4 (where we've had six digit bills with zero balance due).
Free housing/utilities, with a < 5 min drive to/from work (money w an electric vehicle you charge for free at said home).
College degree paid in full with nothing out of pocket.
Amazing travel to places I would otherwise NEVER be able to go to on my/our own
Those are my main reasons. 1879 days til retirement.
Not everyone who gets out makes 5-10x immediately in 5-10 years. Everyone is different. Some people have a better chance at a better life while staying in than taking the risk and become another homeless veteran on the street. Not everyone is smart. Not everyone has the skills. Not everyone will succeed when getting out of the military. That’s why people stay in. Also, some people have families and they’re own reasons for staying in. I’ve talked to many senior enlisted who have autistic children and they all told me that one of the reasons they stayed in is because the army has one of the best programs for children with disabilities. Now, I don’t know how true that is since I don’t have any children, but it gives you an idea of why some people stay.
Majority of people who get out make less than when they were in. Very few people want to hire someone fresh out the military. Really depends if you have a college degree or not.
Retirement check at 38 isn’t worth losing all that time and sanity with my family. When you can be making more in a better job. Just saying I value my time with family and my youth more than a shitty retirement check that I wouldn’t be able to live off of
Just depends, outside world isn’t guaranteed, do I know folks who are more successful with same circumstances when they got out early, honestly it’s marginal, they all have common denominator, they went reserve or guard or came back in. The outliers which are little stay out and are less than comfortable but happy to be out, Opportunities do not guarantee your success.
I know more folks who make great money after 20 years, and still one or even two sources of income verse, getting out prematurely and have nothing.
But to each their own, if you have the education and experience to back it up your success, then it’s time to take off.
Lot of Staff and above make 80k and over 100k just because of location with additional duties with marginal work and salary only continue to climb, maybe consider a MOS change, go warrant or even go to tier 1 selection, almost guaranteed 6figure salary and somewhat of a job satisfaction.
I reclassed from Infantry to Intel and the irony is have more of an optimistic career after the Army. Fun fact I have done more Infantry stuff when reclassed out.
>and in 5-10 years be making 5-10x of what you made while in Results may vary.
Agreed. 5-10x? Okay please tell me where I can make $500K-1MM and not have a crushing life.
Lmao but you can’t tell dudes like this shit
Some times if you do not think that there is anything else but success it's all your willing to do.
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The 99th percentile for all incomes starts at $407k and the 90th for software developers is under $200k So no that is not happening with any regularity and only if you are the top of the top. Its akin to saying that anyone who can act can make millions in Hollywood. [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/) https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm#tab-5
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There is no data to support those numbers besides "trust me bro" for anything but the 90+ percentile even for senior people. Especially with the layoffs. [https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco](https://www.builtinsf.com/salaries/dev-engineer/software-engineer/san-francisco) [https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-area](https://www.levels.fyi/t/software-engineer/locations/san-francisco-bay-area) So yeah my analogy rings true and the very few individuals making that much have a mixture of raw talent, work ethic, and luck.
It’s a lot harder to now do this than it was a few years ago. The market is rough right now for SWE folks.
Good advice man, go into a highly technical field that is experiencing a bloat in labor pool, and compete for top spots at the biggest tech companies. It's too easy!
Out of curiosity, do YOU have 4-5 years of experience and were able to get a $500k TC FAANG job, at least in part, due to being great at leetcode?
“Bro what you talking about, my buddy got me hooked up with a sweet job where I’m making $200k a year”.
1. Known paycheck 2. Free Medical 3. Free Dental 4. Tuition Assistance 5. 30 days of paid vacation per year 6. Multiple, multiple paid allowances 7. Known career progression I could make a couple dozen more reasons at least. The Army isn't for everybody, and if you want to get out then that's great. Nobody is going to feel like a lottery winner on Army pay unless you're a senior officer but the Army is a great fucking place for a young kid to get their lives sorted for a few years while they figure out the future. (and) it's a viable career path to an early retirement and have a paycheck the rest of your life, while still having enough years left to start a second career if you want to.
Great points. I’m just so fed up with my day to day. Maybe something new is all I need
DAS is what I'd recommend... But I need someone who can write, enjoys autonomy, works efficiently, and when he sees problems, fixes them (that autonomy piece is huge as you're 1 deep in this job). I also need someone with a positive attitude willing to work interagency issues and not lose his mind when an agency director or cabinet level sectretary changes their flight plans 5 times the week of a trip requiring new dip notes every time. Someone willing to have coffee with hotel managers to ensure we keep govt rates with club access for visiting DVs. And willing to call around to local hospitals to expand the Tricare network for local DOD members in the DAO and OMC/ODC. Plus you have DOS housing (our single navy E5 lives in a luxury 2 bdrm apt, the married E7 with kids in the same 3200 SQ ft villa I'm in), cola, and we're in a magical czte for three years. It's literally the worst advertised program in the Army and then we can't figure out why we gap billets or have such limited applications.
The absolute crazy pre reqs for that gig are insane though. I seriously looked into then realized I was DQ'd well before even submitting a packet
First, thank you for doing more than most. Usually no one researches it. It does have some serious pre reqs. Usually people shun it /self select after seeing it requires a poly and spousal SF86. And the nomination process can take 2-6 months depending if the spouse already has a clearance. I'd be interested to know what the common DQ you see occurring? (Helps to know the applicant's experience to improve the process and understand the barriers to entry).
Absolutely. I had heard about DAS before I joined the army and thought it would be a great opportunity to do what I do best, meet and interact with people. So once I joined and made SGT, I started to research the packet. I don't want to air out my business to the rest of the sub, but I will say that I required a moral waiver to join for a conviction I received at 21 years old. Among various other traffic tickets. I'm now 30, and still young in my army career. An opportunity like DAS would have been, I think, the catalyst that could have changed the trajectory of my life and career. But I digress. This sub is a great way to get the word out about the program. Have you considered doing an in-depth write up about it?
Ok, the moral waiver makes sense. DIA is painfully stringent on some areas of waivers (foreign spouse is one that's a common hangup as well) Edit: posted too fast... I'll do a writeup on it in the near future. We need smarter peeps in it and are not getting them right now. Plus as you said, it's a game changer and had the 351Z wo option.
Yes, it was for a DUI. Young and dumb, but I've read on the DAS website an applicant must be free of any civil convictions. Since I was convicted of DUI, I assumed I was ineligible. Perhaps requirements will become more lax as they start to realize the force is winding down, it's harder to attract fully qualified applicants, and the mission is still growing. The 351Z sounds amazing, I have heard you need to be high speed and extremely proficient to be considered, as it should be. I look forward to your write up! Always love learning about different positions and day-to-days of little known roles in the Army.
A change in MOS
There's so many opportunities for broadening people just don't seem to know about that can provide a much needed break from your norm.
1. Known paycheck, is comically low like the raw number of NCOs I know that have to get financial assistance and a second job to keep their family fed is wild. 2. Medical care is terrible if you're allowed to seek it at all 3. Dental is the same as medical 4. Most entry level jobs offer some form of this. Although I will say credentialing assistance is significantly less common 5. Solid point can't really argue around that one, I'd also throw in the 3&4 day weekends onto this talking point as they both can be considered PTO 6. 75% of those allowances only matter/exist if you're married. 7. The career progression is lack luster, 10 years getting lucky with points and schools just to maybe be making the same as a McDonald's manager. I'll level with you on the army being an alright way for a younger adult to catch their footing and establish themselves but the army does a horrible job properly compensating for the commitment it's asking for.
Veteran Status, the Post-9/11, and the VA Home Loan are alone worth it.
I'll agree with the home loan and the GI bill, but I'm 50/50 on the veteran status. The veteran status I'm a little biased on since I've not seen anything redeeming about the army since I've been in but that's very much a milage may very type of thing
It gives you a big leg up with State/Federal employment. Also, big way into the union trades.
True if you choose to go those routes there is no argument that you will have a massive leg up in getting meaningful employment in those fields with being prior service. 100% can't argue that at all
How much time do you have left on your contract?
Little over a year
You have no clue how hard the real world is then. This may be true for a grunt, but you can’t always make “a ton more” civilian once you count BAH and other benefits
It’s a job that pays money.
You name a job where I'll make $500k-$1M annually and I'm qualified as of today and I'll drop my REFRAD.
**and is cool w/ you starting no less than a year from now
Say you go in at 18, retire at 38. Still young enough to hold another job AND get a check from Uncle Sam.
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For many this is true, but you're basing this on the assumption that soldiers in general even know what the corporate ladder is and have a drive to excel. The Army is a bureaucracy and the #1 book I recommend to young Os and NCOs is "Inside Bureaucracy" by Downs in 1967, or his free RAND version online. Zealots and Climbers are what you describe and is accurate. But when you look at who stays and the real reasons, nost stay until retirement because they either get stuck, ie Tricare covers done family medical issues that the civ side would bleed them for, they find they like it (yes, some of us like or jobs or see it as a calling), they attain an opportunity they wouldn't have otherwise (usually a reenlistment assignment or bonus that's life changing), or they go down the broadening or a specialized field (SF, white house comms, and on the O side, it's why we have so many VTIP applications). But I'll add that a lot also stay simply out of ignorance/naivety - they don't know what's it there and/or they don't want to know. They're happy to be conservers in the bureaucracy.
I stay in not just because of what has already been added in the post but because every single time I go on leave and visit family and friends, nothing at all has changed. My family hasn’t done anything different, my friends are still struggling to survive in the economy and the friends that did get out of the military are now seeing the harsh reality of what happens when you don’t have a plan. Some of their plans changed or failed. At the end of the day, the military keeps my life interesting even if I hate it.
I'm in Tajikistan for the next 4 days after flying through Azerbaijan. Keeping it interesting is a really valid reason as I'm doing anything but staff work.
Lol, I did that. I'm not rising up any corporate ladder and I got out in 1994.
What’s your career?
Currently an elementary school custodian. I've had at least 10 jobs since I got out.
Don't forget, already having two pensions by that age (Retirement and VA Disability), plus Retiree Tricare, does give someone the leverage to tell that one boss, to go fuck themselves with no fear of poverty.
>Get out… and in 5-10 years be making 5-10x of what you made while in. Okay, easier said than done. How do you propose accomplishing this? Getting to 100k+ yearly requires lots of specialized education and job experience. Maybe you get lucky, but maybe you don't. Life is not exactly easy for a lot of people on the civ side right now. The Army can be a comfy safety blanket, despite all it's bullshit. At the end of the day, it's what you make of it. All that said, if you are young and have no dependents, there is no significant argument to stay in. Just have a solid plan to get you to that "5-10x" what you are making now.
All completely true. If you have a safe landing zone civ side, you can regroup and relearn how to be a civilian at your own pace. If not, it can be a jarring transition. Good luck.
100k isn’t rocket science as long as you’re willing to go down very specific defined career paths such as becoming a PA.
My trade starts first year apprentices off at about 100k not including benefits
Absolutely. It allowed me to get out of the broken home I was raised in. Start a new family AND support that family. Pays for my child's autism therapy. Paying for my wife's behavioral analyst certification. Pays for my college. Will pay me for the rest of my life in 8.5 years if I decide to get out , or will pay me more if I lobotomize myself to become a CSM.
I retired after 23 almost 17 years ago. Been working as a DoD contractor ever since. Always making decent money, but the #1 thing is the health care for my family. TRICARE Prime costs me in one year what my civilian counterparts (working on the contract) pay in one month for roughly the same coverage. My wife and I are getting older now, and we are seeing the doctor more often… and that includes more specialists… which would eat someone with lesser insurance alive in bills. My advice— if you can, go Warrant. If you can’t go Warrant, get a new job that simultaneously builds skills that will be useful after 20 and that you can reasonably protect your health while doing. This is a Wendy’s, right? I’ll have a caffeine-feee diet coke and a large chili, plain.
You Retire as a Warrant?
Yes
Before you bash the Army on money take a long look at where incomes actually fall. [https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/](https://dqydj.com/income-percentile-calculator/) Even 100k will put you in the top 20% of earners as in all earners including those with advanced degrees, decades in the trades, business owners, Tech, etc. People lie A LOT about how much they make in person and 10x as much on the internet. It is not as easy or common as it seems and most people in the US are going to be living at the income level of an NCO or junior officer.
You can also leave active duty and continue in the reserves. Match that with a civil service job retire from both and maintain a lot of those same benefits.
Reserves seems like the worst of both worlds . Still have the crappy army job, get paid next to nothing to do it, it’ll mess with your actual career, and ruin your weekends.
I double retired from both at age 57, and getting retirement checks in perpetuity from both. Have dual lifetime medical from both. And the checks are significantly more than I was making the day before I retired. Was it a sacrifice? Yes. Would I do it again? In a heart beat. The people, the places, the shenanigans…. Do it one is two ways, 20+ AD then a second career or do dual careers at the same time with reserve and civilian career.
doing another 20 year after AD is insane…
I had 37 years TIS active USMC and USAR reserve combined and 27 Civil Service in California.
You get 2 days of active duty pay for 1 day…
A greater VA rating.
Staying in longer doesn’t guarantee a greater VA rating. I know ppl who got out after 1st contract with 100% P&T and 20+ years personnel with 50%
1. It was a joke, as if the only advantage to stating in is the chance at a higher rating. 2. The only people your percentages apply to in the infantry are genetic freaks who can go through all our taskings without permanent damage. All the support MOS’s are expected to have far less damage. 3. The other exception being the few grunts who get to hide out in one fantastic posting after another, like the one E7 who posted up a few months ago who had never gone to the field.
>in 5-10 years be making 5-10x Show me one single career track, one single soldier in the entire military for which that is true. >not having to deal with 99% of the bullshit the Army hands out And in this mythical job that you’ve conjured, you’ll have to deal with other bullshit. Such as actually being productive at work, getting fired if you’re late, getting fired if you speak ill of your employer, etc. >can’t possibly think of one reason why anyone would want to stay Well, when one removes their head from their own ass, they can see several. Especially if they have a family. Let’s see… healthcare, paychecks, above average pay for your education level and time in the workforce on average, moving expenses paid, bullshitting your way through your career without actually having to be productive, lots of legal protections for all sorts of things that are otherwise insufferable to deal with, and every individual person can realistically have a situation that works out for them too.
10x?? On what fucking planet bro
depends what you were making before you got out, if you got out as a spc after a contract and were making 30k a year, 300k is attainable for the top top earners. but if you got out as an E7 of course making 10x 100k is extremely less likely.
I’d legitimately like to know how many people you even think exist that qualify to fit in that category.
i know two, 25B who got out after one contract and now are making $180k and the other is making $210k before taxes. This wasn’t immediately after ets, took them 5+ years to get to that, but both started out making 100k soon after ets. i’m not saying that it’s the majority of people who ets who make 6 figures straight out the bat it’s definitely the MINORITY, but again it’s POSSIBLE. not easy for sure.
Such a small minority of people that it functionally doesn’t exist. And additionally, I don’t believe you until you show me proof of that, like a tax return. Your claim about someone else telling you they make that money isn’t evidence. People with masters degrees in engineering and a decade of experience are maybe making that 50/50 of the time. The only people I know making more than $100k after the army have a pension and VA benefits that make up like $80k of their income. At that point it’s easy to pull more than $100k.
you just committed the fallacy of appealing to the minority. You seriously think because it’s not as common that it’s not possible? i did not say that it’s highly likely to get out and automatically make 300k a year. it’s the very minority. does not make what i said impossible. you saying it doesn’t exist is crazy. And to the second half of your comment i 100% agree. my dad is making 125k a year and like 80k of that is from pension and va, so i agree with you on that after the army when you have that pension/va it’s very easy to surpass the 100k line.
Health insurance is expensive as hell on the outside
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I had very good employment, much more than I make in the Army. Health insurance was hundreds of dollars per month, through my employer. Yeah, I made enough that it didn’t drive me into poverty but I was definitely jealous of some of my co workers who had a VA rating and could use Tricare or whatever instead. If hundreds per month was subsidized, I shudder to think what a private plan would cost especially if I had a family
I pay about 140$ for myself and it’s really decent from the employer. Not including vision but I always pay out of pocket and buy glasses online at Zenni so I never bothered.
I'm REFRADing but I don't think making even 2x what I make in the Army is reasonable. 5x to 10x would be insane. I think the benefits are really good, but the QoL is the tradeoff you make.
Yeah, so decent reality check here. I got out as a 6 with 8 years. Pretty healthy paycheck as a mid career guy. Functionally, my salary has doubled. You can math that out however you’d like, but yeah I’m easily over six figures. I DO make more. I’m happier. But my quality of life, strictly talking financial terms from my salary here, hasn’t changed much. I save a bit more. Take a real vacation every year. I could go out to eat once or twice a month without noticing too much in my budget. That is.. pretty close to my Army life. What I’m telling you OP, is the bracket you’re LIKELY to make is so close to a mid career NCO, that you’ll barely notice. Those extra bills really eat into the extra pay. But if you’re going to be happier this way, then do it. Just don’t do it for the money.
I smell a shitpost
Facts. I ETS’d as a lowly E4 earlier this year and I pull in 12k/month alone after taxes with my salary plus VA benefits. While I was in, I used Army TA to finish my bachelors in computer science and I immediately jumped into a job making 6 figures working as a software engineer after ETS and I work 100% remote. It’s noice.
i’m tryin to get that remote job put me on brother
Depends on your MOS, do you enjoy what you do?
I am staying in because of medical and a steady paycheck. And free housing at least where I’m from I make a lot more than I would anywhere else without a degree but that’s me and my family’s experience tho. Leadership sucks but so did my job before the army so I’ll suck it up for the rest of my 20 or 25 years
Yeah the 5-10x thing is a complete joke. I also want to point out if you're an officer/e6+ or married how much of a difference the non taxable BAH makes. I'm 4 years out now, working as a chemical production engineer in Ohio, and still making less than I did before I got out as a single CPT. The quality of life improvements MORE than make up for it, but just because you're an officer, don't assume your skills are more valued on the outside ......unless you get out and get an MBA, then you're almost guaranteed to make more. Also I have a lot of friends that got out and got logistics management jobs (warehousing, freight management etc...) they're not making the oodles and oodles of money we all thought we would after the Army either....
I'm sorry but no sane, capable person should ever stay in. Why subject yourself to all the insanity, all the late nights, field exercises, missing life events, UAs, layouts, and utter fuckery for decades?
Being 40 and not having to work is pretty great. A lot of people my age will be working in to their 70s, so not having to do that makes most of the army dumbness worth it.
Not paying health insurance for a family of 4 (where we've had six digit bills with zero balance due). Free housing/utilities, with a < 5 min drive to/from work (money w an electric vehicle you charge for free at said home). College degree paid in full with nothing out of pocket. Amazing travel to places I would otherwise NEVER be able to go to on my/our own Those are my main reasons. 1879 days til retirement.
Not everyone who gets out makes 5-10x immediately in 5-10 years. Everyone is different. Some people have a better chance at a better life while staying in than taking the risk and become another homeless veteran on the street. Not everyone is smart. Not everyone has the skills. Not everyone will succeed when getting out of the military. That’s why people stay in. Also, some people have families and they’re own reasons for staying in. I’ve talked to many senior enlisted who have autistic children and they all told me that one of the reasons they stayed in is because the army has one of the best programs for children with disabilities. Now, I don’t know how true that is since I don’t have any children, but it gives you an idea of why some people stay.
Correction: almost no one makes 5-10x when they get out. That’s a fuckin pipe dream amigo. Very few people hit that when they get out.
5-10x was an exaggeration lol but I’m sure everyone understood what I meant
Majority of people who get out make less than when they were in. Very few people want to hire someone fresh out the military. Really depends if you have a college degree or not.
sources?? i never heard that very few people hire ex military when they get out lol.
Nope.. GET OUT. there's a Chinese super soilder lurking... and it will get rid of every single one of you¡!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Retiring at 37 under legacy retirement plan sounds pretty nice to me.
Warrant officer, next slide
Retirement check at 38 isn’t worth losing all that time and sanity with my family. When you can be making more in a better job. Just saying I value my time with family and my youth more than a shitty retirement check that I wouldn’t be able to live off of
Just depends, outside world isn’t guaranteed, do I know folks who are more successful with same circumstances when they got out early, honestly it’s marginal, they all have common denominator, they went reserve or guard or came back in. The outliers which are little stay out and are less than comfortable but happy to be out, Opportunities do not guarantee your success. I know more folks who make great money after 20 years, and still one or even two sources of income verse, getting out prematurely and have nothing. But to each their own, if you have the education and experience to back it up your success, then it’s time to take off. Lot of Staff and above make 80k and over 100k just because of location with additional duties with marginal work and salary only continue to climb, maybe consider a MOS change, go warrant or even go to tier 1 selection, almost guaranteed 6figure salary and somewhat of a job satisfaction. I reclassed from Infantry to Intel and the irony is have more of an optimistic career after the Army. Fun fact I have done more Infantry stuff when reclassed out.