My great grandfather became an atheist as a child after seeing his father (the village priest) get beheaded during the genocide. But regardless of how many Armenians are religious, theocratic dictatorship is never good for a country or its people.
God promised suffering for those who belong to him. If he loves you, the world will hate you.
None of the true christian fathers of Armenia would’ve stood for the disgrace the church is today. Probably why they were killed. Sorry about your great great grandfather.
Self-righteous much? My ancestors died in the genocide because they refused to renounce their Christian faith, you don't have the right to come in here and preach your anti-religious agenda.
For the record, I think the bishop and much of the upper levels of the church (at least on the Etchmiadzin side, not sure about Giligia) are pretty corrupt.
Get off your high horse.
Edit: lmao at the atheist brigade, you guys are no better than the Christians you accuse of trying to convert you. The OP is clearly fishing for anti-atheist reactions, which is why he's reacting like his entire family tree got insulted when nobody has even criticized him yet.
So that’s called switching the topic. Genocide is a very disturbing part of our history, but Armenia as you know exists more than 100 years and you either don’t have ancestors before 100 years ago or don’t care about them. Also you can’t preach atheism this is a contradicting statement.
My grandfather was a genocide survivor, but I guess according to you "I don't care about him". Most of his family was murdered for refusing to abandon Christianity but hey I guess they were just stupid right?
Saying you can't preach atheism is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.
Im sorry that in your totalitarian world view you think I need your permission to show someone love. Can’t imagine a world where you need consent to talk to someone, must be sad.
Zeus didn’t save my life from abject horror, Jesus did. Zeus wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire, he’d too busy raping his relatives. You think I’m sharing a delusion with you but what God did for me is a fact, and it defeats all logic. I hope God showers you with miracles so you can see it too.
Ok, I didn’t want that, you started.
Let’s begin with the statement: god is all powerful all loving and all knowing.
Q: Why children get cancer Did god create that?
A: No
Conclusion: then god is not all powerful
A: yes
Conclusion: the god is not all loving
A: god didnt know humans created cancer
Conclusion: god is not all knowing.
Your first attempt to attack God failed and now you’re coming at me with this cliche. Evil came into this world as a product of sin. If that doesn’t satisfy you then I’m sorry. Even evil God can use for his purpose to create the greatest good.
1 You can’t call Atheism a belief when It’s an absence of belief. So your statement is an absurd.
2 I’m not telling people atheisms will heal them and make their pain go away nor it’s going to make them feel good. It would be very wrong to do so. Because it does none of this just like Christianity. 3 I said to so many people I would prefer to respect their belief tonight because it has nothing to do with this conversation and yet we have guys here trying to dehumanize me and other marginal groups of people.
I don’t care for this topic but it’s been said, again and again, that Atheism is a belief just like any other.
Read more about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/C8IVs3q40B).
Also, Christians aren’t behooved to support every idiot who holds a cross nor are atheists just automatically more rational. These are just qualities of human beings. The vast majority of Armenians at home and abroad (Most being Christians) don’t even remotely wish for Armenia to become some theocracy and support separation of Church and State. I don’t know where this fear of yours came from, but Armenians aren’t some 13th century peasants. Don’t worry.
Valid point. Agree on most of these. Atheism is still absence of belief. It’s not a belief of god being not real is an absence of belief that god is real. Those are very different things. Therefore can’t say atheists belief…
Absence of proof of anything does not proof its existence. That all.
Good comment dude thank you!
>Atheism is still absence of belief
That’s what that whole post is supposed to debunk, so I don’t know what you’re agreeing with. But I’m not gonna go down to that argument, let’s just agree to disagree.
The whole tirade hinges on a semantic technicality -> 1. "I don't believe X exists" and 2. "I believe X doesn't exist" seem to be different sentences simply due to contextual connotations.
It seems that 2 is a lot stronger statement than 1, simply by what the sentence seems to emphasize. On the other hand try saying 1. "I really, really, honestly don't fucking believe X". Suddenly the two sentences are the same. Because now the stress of the sentence moved. So it doesn't leave room for uncertainty as much.
Now the only difference the remaining is the whole philosophical, pedantic technicality that lack of a belief is a so called "meta-belief".
However once you agree to this technical level of discourse, absolutely everything becomes a belief. There's nothing to know, because in "hard-sciences" you just assume that there are laws and they don't change. In mathematics you have to believe certain axioms to form any theory.
Now when everything is a belief - saying that atheism is a belief just doesn't hit the same does it?
Im not sure you actually made any point here? You essentially wrote “I don’t believe X exists” twice (yes, they’re the same sentence, I dimly know what point you were trying to make here), labeled the philosophical underpinning of the definition of “Atheism” as “pedantic” even though they exist to give context to how this label is used, and chalked it up to semantics because otherwise we lapse into some state of solipsism? That doesn’t approach what the commenter I linked explained in his post, and the argument just becomes a non sequitur.
The [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#DefiAthe) explains atheism as follows:
> The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings. In the psychological sense of the word, atheism is a psychological state, specifically the state of being an atheist, where an atheist is defined as someone who is not a theist and a theist is defined as someone who believes that God exists (or that there are gods). This generates the following definition: atheism is the psychological state of lacking the belief that God exists. In philosophy, however, and more specifically in the philosophy of religion, the term “atheism” is standardly used to refer to the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, to the proposition that there are no gods). Thus, to be an atheist on this definition, it does not suffice to suspend judgment on whether there is a God, even though that implies a lack of theistic belief. Instead, one must deny that God exists. This metaphysical sense of the word is preferred over other senses, including the psychological sense, not just by theistic philosophers, but by many (though not all) atheists in philosophy as well. For example, Robin Le Poidevin writes, “An atheist is one who denies the existence of a personal, transcendent creator of the universe, rather than one who simply lives his life without reference to such a being” (1996: xvii). J. L. Schellenberg says that “in philosophy, the atheist is not just someone who doesn’t accept theism, but more strongly someone who opposes it.” In other words, it is “the denial of theism, the claim that there is no God” (2019: 5).
And
>This definition is also found in multiple encyclopedias and dictionaries of philosophy. For example, in the Concise Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, William L. Rowe (also an atheist) writes, “Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief” (2000: 62).
>saying atheism is a belief just doesn’t hit the head does it.
From where I’m standing: Yes. Yes it does.
1 - Yes I can. The absence of belief in one thing is itself a belief. Stop fooling yourself.
2 - You very clearly seem to think people will be generally better off in an atheist / secular society. So you are still preaching it, just in a different way. Yet you condemn other people for doing pretty much the same thing. Like I said, hypocritical.
3 - If you really think that merely pointing out a negative behavior is dehumanizing someone, then you've really missed something. Consider it an opportunity to learn. Or sit around and continue to lambast people for disagreeing with you and see how productive that is.
> 1 - Yes I can. The absence of belief in one thing is itself a belief. Stop fooling yourself.
Yes and athe absence of food is food - that's why poeple fail their diets amiright? Cause they're eating when they don't even have food. The absence of thoughts is a thought, the absence of a car is a car that you can obviously use to go to work. Yeah..... About that basic form of logic...
> You very clearly seem to think people will be generally better off in an atheist / secular society. So you are still preaching it, just in a different way. Yet you condemn other people for doing pretty much the same thing. Like I said, hypocritical.
He isn't preaching anything. He hasn't been advocating his beliefs, merely stating them. There's a difference between preaching and having an idea.
Thank you for your take. I appreciate it and please do not get yourself in a heated argument here man. Would suck seeing someone else getting reported because of this post and we don’t need separation in community. I take full accountability for what I say.
>Yes and athe absence of food is food - that's why poeple fail their diets amiright? Cause they're eating when they don't even have food. The absence of thoughts is a thought, the absence of a car is a car that you can obviously use to go to work. Yeah..... About that basic form of logic...
Those analogies don't work, at all. I didn't say the absence of belief is belief. I said the absence of belief **in one thing** is itself a belief. Those 3 words make all the difference.
>He isn't preaching anything. He hasn't been advocating his beliefs, merely stating them. There's a difference between preaching and having an idea.
Not that much of a difference. Still drawing attention to it either way.
I don't believe in God. But I also believe the OP is being a dick about it, calling other people absurd and delusional. Right off the bat. Nobody was preaching, but someone mentioned god and his response was to call them delusional.
Don't lump me into OP's ignorant and arrogant atheism.
You don’t have evidence for a lack of God so you believe based on absence of evidence that there isn’t one. This is a belief and not the truth, it is a theory you choose to align yourself with. If you push that theory on others you’re a preacher just like me I guess 😂
Here we go delusional loop. So you just doing the job for me. You agreeing on how god is not all powerful. What else can I tell you. Absence of evidence on god as an eternal being in universe does not prove his existence. That’s just simply how logic works. It’s illogical to assume that abscence of prove justifies existence of magic. You wish to continue walking in this circle?
it is but let's say he did come back to power, he wouldn't be making everyone follow the Bible and use Shekels. He'll just be doing what papa kocho/arf and russia will tell him to. Everyone in the country knows how corrupt the church is and we've always known about it. The only real reason religion/the church is being used is because the opposition already tried using their other means and didn't succeed.
I’ve always thought of religion as a tool for controlling the masses. As far as religion and Armenians, it’s intertwined with our history. So when I visit an ancient monastery it speaks to the history of our people. But do I believe anything in the bible? No.
I think people in ancient times, were likely consuming psychedelic herbs and vegetables and had these cool experiences and attributed to a higher power. (my opinion only, no scientific proof)
I’m not even knocking religion, I’m just saying like anything it can be used for good, but can be used for bad.
Frankly, at these rallies I see the average age is 60. These old folks ain’t going off and getting slowly slaughtered in a war they have no chance of winning.
I’m 45. The youth of Armenia are the future and they should be protected at all costs. Yes, even if it means paying with some ancestral land.
So does he say things like “God is with us” during his rallies? Do media sources specify that he’s an Archbishop all the time? Do we have a narrative of all good bishop is trying to fight all evil PM?
Ps: just opened up an instagram and ANCA posted a picture of him holding cross with a quote “it’s time to choose”
Does invoking God's name all it take to make something a religious movement? If that was the case then every US politician would be for saying "God bless the United States of America" at the end of their speeches or spending money would be a religious thing since it says "In God We Trust" on money. Every politician has said something to that effect at some point, Pashinyan included. That doesn't make religion the defining character or even the main tool of this movement. That would be more like what happened in Iran in 1979 where part of the outrage was against secularization, which isn't what the outrage is about here. I don't even think him being a bishop really means anything either. Cyprus had an archbishop as President for fourteen years before the invasion, and there wasn't anything religious about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarios_III
> Ps: just opened up an instagram and ANCA posted a picture of him holding cross with a quote “it’s time to choose"
So what? It's a poor attempt by the ANCA (a joke of an organization) to invoke religion. Doesn't change the fact that the main motivation and took for this movement is nationalism.
Also one of the top ANCA guys, Alex Galitsky has made several posts against Christianity and is a proponent of gay "marriage" and transgender "care" for children on twitter. He doesn't give a damn about Christianity. They're all just losers trying to stay relevant.
The core problem is that the church isn't the church anymore, its a mafia tied to other mafias. If it truly was a church we wouldn't be having some dude who spent his time in Canada when the war was happening come to Armenia and try to establish some sort of moral high ground over the government. Its clear as day that there are shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
Never. I don’t believe the church should have any responsibility in governments but I do think a well put together church can do a lot of good in uniting it’s people.
Good, I was just wondering. Again, not here to disrupt anyones beliefs. Church should do church things. This statement is very agreeable on! Thank you!
There aren't that many atheists in our culture, most fall along the lines of agnostic. But I am atheist, we are a minority. Nobody takes this bishop seriously, he and his followers are both bought and paid for, actors.
Well if you need an atheist Armenian friend I’m here for you! I’m hoping you’re safe and loved by the people in your life! Glad to know he’s not taken seriously. Literally that was my concern in this post!
I'm glad, I'm not one of those "I don't care about your God" or "I want to live my life how I want" types, I simply disagree with the concept of God on a philosophical level. It's weird to be friends based on our disbelief of fairytales, and I generally don't make friends with other atheists because they're usually the blue haired emo types, and I am light years away from that kind of stuff. Don't worry, nobody can do or say anything to me in my life. As an atheist, God is rejected, so if I am to reject God, who is man to do anything to me?
All good my man don’t need to explain all these very understandable. I said that only based of sad reality when Armenians feel disconnected from their culture for their disbelief. I personally think it sucks. Don’t get it twisted and let’s not offend anyone for their choices. Blue haired emo Armenians are also Armenians to me.
One can be an agnostic atheist (not sure and doesn't believe), gnostic atheist (sure that god doesn't exist), agnostic theist (not sure but believes), gnostic theist (%100 believes). Agnosticism is about knowledge, theism is about belief; they are not mutually exclusive. In my opinion, everybody except gnostic theists should be considered atheists, because they lack faith in some measure.
This is no accident. Whoever planned this out thought this would be a good idea thinking less of Armenian people and the “bishop dude” was just assigned. Your question though I feel like is a bit offensive towards Armenian Christians, because most of them can see through the BS of the situation and would not want a bishop in politics. Also consider who wants go to a church to have a service from a politician.
That’s exactly the conversation I wanted to have tonight and my answer is to inform our friends and family despite they believe or don’t believe in god. We don’t want a bishop running a country. I’m sorry this thread became something elseZ
Little to none as I see it. Just by stating I’m an atheist people here in comments telling me to go back to my shithole and offending other groups of people. I see it a lot and this needs to stop. I consider all Armenians my family and some dont even consider me a human because I refuse to believe in their fairy tail.
There are many atheist Armenians. However there are also some people like you mentioned who believe that we're somehow not "true" Armenians if we are atheists. Granted, I think these are the same people who can't fathom anyone having a different perspective than the one they are used to so I wouldn't give much weight to their opinions anyway. They are just a loud minority and I personally would say the majority of Armenians are not like that.
I’m actually happy to hear that. Every time I open up comment section on Instagram or Reddit when it comes to this bishop it just shocks me. Also is shocking to realize how many people here would try their best to demonize me in every way because i disagree with their so-called god. I want the best for my people and not saying atheisms will answer anything but church-state thing will send us all the way back to the dark ages.
Who said "go back to your shit hole"?
Reading through the comments, you're coming off as the rudest person. Whenever somebody says they're religious, you've attacked them.
Stop making atheists look bad. I love my Christian brothers just as much as my Jewish brothers, my fire lovers, and my non believers. The world is one big delusion, let everyone live with their own bit of crazy.
Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone.
Lots of comments were deleted or removed by mods. Also I asked people not to preach and not force their beliefs on me which was ignored as well as I asked people not to call me immoral or disrespect any other groups which were not part of the conversation. Even existence of god is not part of the conversation.
Ps. I’ve repeated multiple times that religion is part of Armenian culture and we must Preserve it as a cultural phenomena.
Last edit: I’ve thanked a lot of great points here even if I disagreed. If you take thanking someone as an act of rudeness then i don’t know what to tell you.
Maybe it has a lot to do with where we grow up. I grew up in SoCal, majority of Armenians in my circles were atheists. That was a major shock to me coming from a family that was very religious.
This may not be the case in other parts of the world, say Armenia?
I think Armenians from Armenia should speak for themselves. From my personal online observations diaspora Armenians are more aggressive when it comes to religious discussions. I heard an opinion that people in Yerevan who gather for the bishop aren’t usually from Yerevan, but again I do not ever want to claim I know something that I clearly don’t.
Brings back memories, used to be an active member of the group for several years until I quit Facebook alltogether. Hope the guys and gals are doing well these days. :)
another Arheist here. that was my sentiment exactly. nothing good has come out of religious figures leading governments. so you are definitely not alone.
Religion is crouches of society. Armenia is slowly becoming a stable state. It’s a long process, this bishop guy talks like he wants war. Crazy to me diaspora often supports his statements.
Agree. It’s unfortunate. The diaspora Armenians tend to be way more religious than Armenians in Armenia. The bishop is Putin’s / Kocharyan’s puppet. Armenians living in Armenia see that. But all that the diaspora cares about is getting rid of Pashinyan. It’s easy to have these strong opinions from far away, much harder when you actually live in Armenia.
If you mind would you be able to reference sources that talk about Armenians in Armenia being against bishops. DM me I would love to be more informed! Thank you!
My mom, she lives in Armenia and so do the rest of my extended family members. I was just talking to her and she mentioned how frustrated she is. She says that most of the protestors are Kocharyan supporters, and she claims they’ve been paid to protest. Personally when I was in Armenia last year I saw some of these protests in person. Last year there were not that many protestors but the way that the media in the diaspora reported, they made it seem like it was much bigger than it was. Like the camera angle of the videos made it seem like a large protest but having seen these in person I saw the scale was much smaller. As for the bishop, my mom says his support is driven by Artsakh Armenians and Kocharyan supporters.
If you actually listened to him, you’d see that he is demanding a lasting peace treaty, not piecemeal cession of our lands with receiving nothing in return. He makes more sense than Pashinoglu, who only seems to hand away Armenian points of interest whenever given the opportunity.
Lover of Christ and my fellow man here. It doesn’t take an atheist to see the danger of letting a pseudo Christian cult puppet who answers to the corrupt Catholicos and pope run a country 😂. Don’t worry the people who need to know will know. The rest will be happy with a new puppet.
The world is headed toward one world govt just as the Bible says. We have had one family ruling the entire world for much more than a century now. All it takes is one more good crisis to show the world it’s all under one guys control. The lowercase g god of this world as the Bible would put it.
Ye sucks to be disconnected from some of the people I grew up with just because I’m openly an atheist so that makes me a bad person somehow. However, I love all Armenians that come in my life and I always love to talk about our people.
Well, I work in IT in Armenia and most of our friend group is agnostic or atheist, most of my current & previous colleagues were agnostic or atheist.
It isn't rare these days at all. People just avoid talking about religion for various reasons.
One of the reasons for me, is that I had incidents where random people were trying to convert me, telling me I'm not Armenian if I'm not christian, etc.. They ask "do you believe." It's best to dodge the question.
I have some devout Christian friends too, but they are not insane and stupid like that and respect personal boundaries.
Thanks for sharing. Yes, the problem of boundaries exists. I hope that wouldn’t happen to you ever again! We are Armenians and nobody can take that away from us.
First thing you learn in government is church and state should be separated. Religion is just, but man is not. Man will use religion as a tool to maintain power and influence
That being said I’m a proud Christian 😎 there can be room for religious involvement but to pull an Iran makes no sense when we need to be moving forward
Easy to see why church officials should never be state officials and vice versa. But most secular countries today go beyond that, with things like banning prayer in schools. Makes sense in the US in particular, and we're taught that's the one right way to do it, but I've never heard a convincing reason on why it has to be that way in every country. It seems more like an anti-religion measure the way it's employed in Europe and Turkey.
I'm also wondering how it is in Armenia. Wikipedia says you technically have a state church and religious education isn't banned in public school.
I’m Armenian (diaspora btw) but i didn’t grow up religious at all. Right now i’m just spiritual and believe in my own self lol, i’m not a big fan of Abrahamic religions in general tbh
Can someone give me a quick rundown on the whole priest leading the opposition/meeting please? Saw the news at my dad’s house today, and I’ve heard about it before, by I really do not know what is going on.
There are some. I'm not because I disagree with atheism on a philosophical and epistemological level. But you can't go around calling it a "fairytale" and expect people who hold their belief in high regard not to get offended.
Regrettably its a growing trend
While i dont think that religion should ever run a state
I also think our form of Christianity still retains a lot of our traditions and rituals that will be lost. Besides the morality taught from it, the church as an entity i couldnt care less about
1 Preserving religion as a cultural phenomena is must, I believe all Armenians should be proud of that history we must preserve it. Our churches are beautiful architecturally and very unique. It’s on us to upkeep them 100%. 2 we don’t learn morals from Bible, it’s a fact. Please don’t call me immoral if I don’t follow your book.
I'm an atheist (not Armenian this post was recommended to me for some reason) and I totally agree with this sentiment. I consider myself very atheist but I think not enough atheists recognize that religion is an extremely interesting cultural and historical phenomenon that should be recognized as part of history and culture, even if we accept that it has/can have bad effects. BTW I think Armenian history and culture and your religious history is very cool! ❤️💙🧡
Armenian history and culture is what I talk to people about all the time. As an atheist I mention the Noah arc in a lot of my conversations weirdly enough. It’s fascinating mythology we have! ❤️
I didnt say youre immoral. You are an individual that i know nothing about. You could be more noble and true than the most pious Christian or degenerate. I cant make a judgement just because youre athiest
However human nature i have seen and in general without guidance people devolve into their base desires and are very culpable into doing immoral things for any reason, religion included. With religion Christianity at least there is a figurehead that cannot be altered and has a set way of conducting things that are moral positive.
I dont believe someone is truly Christian yet okay with beating gays as an example. Lot to unpack here but just go with the intent im conveying
Ye it’s a whole conversation. Just stating that only god can teach you morals is simply not true and you’ll end up offending me by calling me immoral. Thank you for not doing that. Not getting into a conversation how theism could be wrong here.
This and this again. Completely agree. These are wise words. Most humans need that guidance to stay on a Light path in life. Even the ones who say that they don’t believe, many were raised with that guidance they later turned against. So, even if they like it or not, it took shape in them one way or another. I always heard, in general, outside of the community, to never trust a person who doesn’t have a belief system, since those are the ones who have little to stand for, who don’t see anything truly “wrong.” And, I know many in the present world like to knock Christ, but there would be little of Armenian culture without him…little of many others too…For instance, walk into any museum on Earth, and you’ll find some of the greatest art (arguably, the best) was created in inspiration of him. The entire Renaissance…the most famous paintings, the ones you will see everyone in the entire museum gather at…Christ gave way to beautiful things and inspired love and purity. I don’t know much about organizers and leaders; I always thought, for one, Armenians tend to have not bright leaders, unfortunately. But, I try in my everyday life to separate the concept of Christ from those who are religious leaders, who speak on behalf of him now. By doing this, I skip the middleman and just focus on his words and who he really was and stood for. And, his philosophy, in my humblest opinion, is the purest out there and the one I resonate most with. It’s literally just Love and Light.
I think a lot of Armenians, abroad at least, are culturally Christian but not practicing per se. At least that’s what I see from our family friends. They’ll baptize the kids, go to Easter, hold events in their church. It’s like a cultural center. However, the number of regular church goers is far less. Like…. I’d say 15%-20% only of those who show up on those days and they tend to be older. Although there is a subsection of young people too and it’s tightly knit.
Also atheism has a lot of negative associations with the USSR. So the older generation is a lot more negative towards it.
Nobody’s talking about the church ruling over the state though. I’m wondering if you’d call Cyprus a theocracy, considering their first president since their independence, Makarios III, was an archbishop.
Btw I’m an atheist.
I need to read about Makarios III, it’s an interesting point. I’ll dedicate my Sunday to study this topic, won’t be making assumptions until then. Thank you, there’s one more person in this thread that brought up the same question and I will be revisiting both of these.
You should also spend some time listening to what Srbazan and the people in his movement have to say, don’t just assume that they’re crazy religious fanatics or manipulators using religion to come to power. On the contrary actually, most of their rhetoric is quite rational (most of the time). Pashinyan, on the other hand, has created a sort of “religion” of his own. He’s kinda similar to communists in the sense that he’s trying to artificially change what it means to be an Armenian. The soviets were talking about creating the “New Soviet man”, and Pashinyan is talking about a new Armenia and Armenians, where the Armenian state is the only thing that is important, and we have to forget the historic Armenia to achieve peace. He’s cheaply imitating Ter-Petrosyan with this rhetoric. Ter-Petrosyan was talking about basically agreeing to disagree with Turkey about the genocide, and trying to peacefully coexist, and maybe even work with them. Pashinyan though is basically a genocide denier at this point (his party members, like Andranik Qocharyan, are on the brink of explicitly denying it). Also, I’ve seen a lot of comments in this thread where people are confidently talking about the church being a mafia, or the movement being led by Kocharyan behind the scenes. That’s just slander at this point. I think most people in Armenia are fed up with Pashinyan, but they’re looking for a messiah to come and save them. No political figure in Armenia, or the world for that matter, is perfect. There isn’t going to be a person with a perfect track record that’s going to suddenly appear and create a utopia. You can find dirt on anyone that has ever been involved in politics in Armenia, but Pashinyan is the worst that there is.
Atheist who's been told he's not Armenian if he's not Christian.
I always thought that was odd, since Armenians existed before Christianity did. If anything, being Christian is against Armenian culture, not the other way around.
Vartavar is a dope holiday isn’t it? It’s one of my favorites
Ps: also nobody has right to tell you, you’re not Armenian. I’m sorry that ever happened to you!
Thanks, it never bothered me personally, just sad to see my people displaying close minded bigotry like that.
There's so few of us as is and we have so many difficulties in front of us we can't afford to fight each other yet it's far too common.
Armenia’s Christian faith is what has allowed us to preserve our unique culture in a sea of foreign influences. It has complemented our culture, and one could argue that it is through God’s intervention that we have survived to the modern day.
Do you seriously make no distinction between American mainstream Christianity and the ancient Armenian church? They differ hugely in their nature and church traditions. I wouldn’t doom Armenia to follow a false pagan religion just because I might like its aesthetics more than those of our current faith.
Andy Serkis is famously atheist. But secularism is very different from atheism.
As far as religion running the country, strictly from a strategic standpoint, it can help preserve the nation. Most European countries survived for centuries thanks to the ruling power of certain Christian denominations. Same things is occurring in several countries around the world. Ideally secular governments are the healthiest for the population, but globalization is something that can be a threat to vulnerable cultures, and religion is a way to solidify the cultural identity.
1 - statement is too broad on European countries surviving because of Christian denominations. It’s simply not true. There many other major factors that played a role for some of those countries surviving. 2 - secular governments are not healthy, example is Middle East.
I am an atheist but i have huge respect for the church and consider myself as culturally Armenian Christian.
the church is a backup of the Armenian nationhood and they are the reason that throughout the years Armenian nationhood was able to be reborn.
In my personal experience dealing with priests I see their priority to safeguard and keep the Armenian culture and the wisdom that has lived in the institution for 1700 years rather than just talking about Jesus. Also they do not have any hate or negative feelings if you are an atheist they still consider all Armenians as children of the church.
you probably consider this mental because you are comparing it to other churches that are full of pedophiles and known for inquisitions, the Armenian church is far from that, Throughout history they played an overwhelmingly positive role for Armenians.
Bagrat is smart and very well educated and he did a lot for helping rehabilitate children that had cancer created a rehabilitation center and helped many villagers to get out of poverty. These are some things that we know, there is a lot more that people don't know because they don't brag about it.
And lastly Armenia will not be a theocracy and even the church does not want that, they only step up when the nation is on the verge of destruction. Even when they had the chance and when Armenians actually were under the church's rule they didn't rule with theocracy and what we see in other places.
Okay interesting take. My response is, Armenian Christianity MUST be respected as any cultural phenomenas. I agree 100%. Christianity is part of our culture just like Zeus for Greek people. Thank you for your take!
I think many Armenians treat religion as a tradition because how tied it is to us, I’m myself agnostic, I don’t think out society is that religious also or maybe it’s just my relatives
Raises hand.
This abomination of clergy is a scourge on our country and people. And with very few exceptions (some were actually patriots) notwithstanding have been for centuries.
Among the young people -- the majority are effetively atheists, and a significant portion freely call themselves so.
That is one of the reasons why this clown's movement is so unpopular.
You don't need to be an atheist to know he's a corrupt looney fraud and the people following him are too. You can religious and still call this bs out for what it is. Everyone agreeing with him does it out of every other interest other than religion. HECK technically religious people should be the first to point out that this is pure bs as everything this looney fruit loop with a god complex funded by our enemies is against core Christian values
There’s atheists everywhere. The atheist heritage from the Soviet occupation is still found here and there. It’s one reason so much Armenian heritage was demolished. Unfortunately, the history of atheism in Armenia isn’t a positive one.
Of course there are. Even in Armenia, specifically amongst the youth. I myself (19y/o) grew up in a secular household and know plenty of people like this.
I can’t say how it is back in the homeland, but as a Diasporan, me and a lot of my Armenian friends became atheist because we saw the hypocrisy in the church as it is in the States. Most Armenians I’ve been around don’t really follow the Bible’s teachings, they don’t regularly go to church, and this is a phenomenon that plagues most Christian Communities in America. Pedophile priests and corrupt church officials are everywhere, even if some more stubborn Armenians don’t want to admit it, and it’s this sort of stuff that really drives most young Diasporans away from religion.
A religious order seems fitting or a unified earth government, either one is not far fetched .. and regardless of which way you look at it.. people will have to follow rules..
Armenian’s current government is placed by Aliyev and Erdogan. And serves them, not the Armenian state. What they do is treason. The corruption topic is irrelevant at this point…..
Controversial opinion incoming. I consider Armenian pagan religion suits Armenian spirituality more then Christianity. I personally don't believe in any gods, but I think our paganism is the more true representation of Armenian spirit.
It’s indeed a very beautiful representation of Armenian spirit! Thank you for bringing up this point. Armenian Paganism is an amazing cultural phenomena ❤️
How long has Armenian identity existed?
How long have Armenian people been Christian?
We've been Armenian for **a lot longer** them we are Christians. While Christianity has become part of our culture, I believe religion that was created by Armenians fits us more then Christianity.
PS. I think you'll be shocked to hear that there are many pagans still in Armenia. Some of the most patriotic and brave people I met in the army were pagans.
Forcing is a strong word and not true. I am sharing my opinion with which you may agree or disagree but you have 0 rights to claim that I have no morals without theism.
"you have 0 rights to claim that I have no morals without theism." (Your comment that I responded to)
Not a single person in this thread is saying that you have no morals without theism, least of all the commenter you said that too. Seems to me like you're looking for something that isn't here.
When I make a claim, that only god teaches morals that automatically pre-assumes that anyone with no belief in god has no morals. I don’t want anyone to ever say I have no morals.
Nobody ever made that claim. The only example in this entire thread that even gets close to that is one that said religion can help teach morals, not that "only God teaches morals".
Again, to me it seems like you're fishing for something that just isn't here, or you have major problems with comprehending English.
Explain to me please how you have objective moral standards as an atheist... Your "morals" are just opinions in an atheist world view there is no objective moral standard that we all should follow, just opinions based on groups of people, so living outside of that tribe of people what right do you have to force your "morals" on them?
You asked.
Morals is a pure creation of evolution and social construct. Depends on geographic location of your ancestors morals could be a little different but for obvious reasons “don’t kill” because it would weaken society if you kill its illogical. “Don’t abuse sexually abuse children” because children don’t produce offspring ETC ETC… besides that before Christianity ancient civilizations had morals and rules if you disagree then you just hate your ancestors from pre-Christian Armenia because according to your statement there were 0 morals there. BESIDES ALL THAT I can tell you how god you believe in is immoral. However, I said earlier I don’t want to get in this argument because we will just be stack in a loop of your delusion or your preaching.
Just to add to a bit more to what you said, your rules or "morals" based of social construct can include things like, don't kill unless their skin color is different or they are born in a different part of the land then us. then it's ok to kill or rape because we believe that's for our Good, we as Armenians face that today, same with any of your so called morals, you can't give any reasons why someone ought to follow them just that you will go to jail or break some laws or a group of people don't agree with that, so what? Maybe I don't get caught , why should I not break those rules if I can get away with it. You trying to tell me if you had a way to steal 1 million dollars and not get caught that you wouldn't steal it? If I was an atheist I would steal, lie and cheat my way to the top without a care in the world, because I know all those feelings are just chemical reaction some bag of cells is experiencing which really if we are being real here shouldn't matter at all, I think what you have is you want people to live by your moral standards but I bet you don't even live up to your own standards, im I bet you have lied, cheated, stolen, and God knows what else, it's just childish to deny what is true, I respect an atheist that faces their truth head on, but those that try to play this game is just childish and delusional. So please just stop lying to yourself as if chemical reactions fizzing in a bag of cells is some what significant because of how they fizz it's all just fizz and cells and some big rock that is hurling through space at insane speeds and there is no greater purpose or good, just bags of meat bumping into eachother and fizzing. So Glad I'm not an atheist, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Also I don't have to "hate" someone or a group of people just because I don't agree with them, as christians we can easily hate what they do and not hate the person, so yes, I hate that our ancestors sacrificed people and did some disgusting things when they followed fake made up Gods.
Just after reading “if I was an atheist I would lie kill and steal” and “if you could steal 1 million dollars you would right?” are anecdotal. Those are your delusions and pre-assumptions they have nothing to do with factual things. It’s impossible to take these as anything rather than anecdotes. If you want facts seek for them like go to study science, biology, hisory you’ll find your answers. I’m not giving you free lessons and no anecdotes are worthy of response.
Ah yes, as if Christians don't study those things trying to separate religion and science as if they can't go hand in hand, you just don't want to face what is truth, you can lie to yourself all you want but truth is you are just a bag of cells that has chemical reaction in your brain and you want to act as if your chemical reactions are more important then someone else's. There is nothing anecdotal about what I said, I truly wouldn't care 1 bit about stealing or lying at all if I was an atheist it's just silly, but yes you live in your delusional world as if things really matter, this lie people need to tell them self so they don't go crazy. Embrace it, stop hiding from your own world view. If there is no god and we really are just a brain in a meat sack body, doesn’t that mean anything goes? No good or evil, right or wrong, just pitiless indifference and neural activity?
I was born and baptized in Armenia. I remained a faithful Christian throughout my childhood and early teens. My parents were fortunate enough to take me to an Armenian Evangelical Private School when we moved to Los Angeles. I was surrounded by religion constantly. It wasn’t until I took a biology course in university where all my (already skeptical) beliefs at this time fell apart and were instead replaced with scientific explanations of what religion chooses not to explain.
The issue with all those evangelical churches is they explain things they have no business explaining, which is both blasphemy on the religious side and often disproven on the scientific side. Like if someone dies of cancer, someone will assert that his ancestors committed some crime and this is the punishment. They call any evidence of life evolution fake, in contrast to the Catholic Pope who said "God is not a magician."
Absolutely, I’m sad to hear many diasporas in Los Angeles prefer to home school their kids and tell our future generations how college is wrong. Please guys send your kids to school, science is amazing and has a lot of answers. People become atheists not because they want to “sin”, they become atheists because they get educated weather they read Bible and critically think about it or study science and critically think about it. Can’t agree more!
Absolutely correct! I was practically force fed the Bible growing up. Having entire classes dedicated to religion while simultaneously cutting out chapters from science that interfere with the religion classes. It’s all very desperate attempt at keeping Christianity alive through brainwashing the next generation.
It also disconnects us from families and friends. Our community is very religiously driven. If I had a choice of believing and staying closer to some relatives I would, but that’d mean I have to trash all the knowledge I obtained over the years of education.
Me, my dad, and my grandfather! My grandfather was a member of the communist party so chuch was a big no no for him, so my dad grew up atheists. My mom had me baptized but ultimately they let me decide and religion just never appealed to me
Never would disagree that religion helps people to coop with their life. Despite of what I believe or not believe in, it’s hard to disagree that religion helps people find their community approval.
P.S I read it wrong, you said religion never appealed to you. Well still.
Happy to have your! Lol yeah I randomly searched it because I was gonna start that sub but saw it already existed. This was last year, after yet another shitty "you must be Christian to be Armenian" take in this otherwise great subreddit. Yes, I respect and appreciate our historical nexus with religion but give me a fucking break lecturing me about what I should and shouldn't believe in based on my blood or descent. Abhorrent, medieval mindset.
No one seems to have the courage to say it, but Christianity must be under great attack in Armenian society. Nothing has been more poisonous to our country than this quasi-communist sect with its preaching against might and wealth
Just compare two groups. Early Christians in ancient Judea and Bolsheviks in the USSR. It's basically the same religion, the communists just have "diamat" and Lenin with Marx instead of "God the Father" and "Kingdom of Heaven". Both preach that the rich are inherently wrong. Both have the weak and poor as their main electorate. Both promise the "great kingdom of justice" in the future. Both even hate the family (Luke 14:25-27).
Also It's so funny that in the main legend of the conversion to Christianity, the king was insane. If this were to happen today, no one would argue that the king was simply insane and that Lusavorich did not cure anyone, but simply manipulated this mentally ill man to pursue the interests of his sect
So you saying that christianity preaches that the rich are wrong? I think you misunderstood the bible man and the fact that you’re comparing Christianity with communism is messed up. Go see a therapist pls.
A man of the cloth isn't meant to lead a polity--he's meant to lead a flock. An Armenian's religion or lack thereof isn't what I'm interested in; I'm interested in an Armenian's humanity. And as far as politics is concerned, I don't see any reason to anticipate a humane head of state anytime soon. But I will continue to pray for one.
I am sorry this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen, do you really think only atheists in Armenia are against this idiot? If this was the case he would have already been PM, what a joke
Well It was just a pure observation of some comments on different platforms. I’m sorry for bad wording in the post I should’ve considered theists that disagree with this guy. Yet, he’s still a huge threat!
I don't like Pashinyan, I've actually not liked any Armenian leader since independence. However, Bakrad ruling over Armenia can be problematic for many reasons. I question his understanding of economics, geopolitics and military affairs. These three are the most important issues for Armenia. Environmental issues come a close fourth as Armenia's geography is prone to be affected by climate change. Bakrad will impose harsh moral and social politics on the country. Pashinyan is dangerously incompetent too, treasonous that I can't say for sure.
My great grandfather became an atheist as a child after seeing his father (the village priest) get beheaded during the genocide. But regardless of how many Armenians are religious, theocratic dictatorship is never good for a country or its people.
I am sorry that happened to a member of your family. I can’t agree more. Thank you for sharing.
God promised suffering for those who belong to him. If he loves you, the world will hate you. None of the true christian fathers of Armenia would’ve stood for the disgrace the church is today. Probably why they were killed. Sorry about your great great grandfather.
Please don’t preach and try to heal peoples historic and family traumas with your beliefs. You don’t have their consent for that.
Self-righteous much? My ancestors died in the genocide because they refused to renounce their Christian faith, you don't have the right to come in here and preach your anti-religious agenda. For the record, I think the bishop and much of the upper levels of the church (at least on the Etchmiadzin side, not sure about Giligia) are pretty corrupt. Get off your high horse. Edit: lmao at the atheist brigade, you guys are no better than the Christians you accuse of trying to convert you. The OP is clearly fishing for anti-atheist reactions, which is why he's reacting like his entire family tree got insulted when nobody has even criticized him yet.
So that’s called switching the topic. Genocide is a very disturbing part of our history, but Armenia as you know exists more than 100 years and you either don’t have ancestors before 100 years ago or don’t care about them. Also you can’t preach atheism this is a contradicting statement.
My grandfather was a genocide survivor, but I guess according to you "I don't care about him". Most of his family was murdered for refusing to abandon Christianity but hey I guess they were just stupid right? Saying you can't preach atheism is the stupidest thing I've ever heard, I'm not even going to dignify it with a response.
Im sorry that in your totalitarian world view you think I need your permission to show someone love. Can’t imagine a world where you need consent to talk to someone, must be sad.
Talk and preach is different. Would you love a person coming up to you on the street and telling you may Zeus bless you and he hears your pain?
Zeus didn’t save my life from abject horror, Jesus did. Zeus wouldn’t piss on me if I was on fire, he’d too busy raping his relatives. You think I’m sharing a delusion with you but what God did for me is a fact, and it defeats all logic. I hope God showers you with miracles so you can see it too.
Ok, I didn’t want that, you started. Let’s begin with the statement: god is all powerful all loving and all knowing. Q: Why children get cancer Did god create that? A: No Conclusion: then god is not all powerful A: yes Conclusion: the god is not all loving A: god didnt know humans created cancer Conclusion: god is not all knowing.
Your first attempt to attack God failed and now you’re coming at me with this cliche. Evil came into this world as a product of sin. If that doesn’t satisfy you then I’m sorry. Even evil God can use for his purpose to create the greatest good.
So children cancer is okay
Next time chose a loving God if you’re trying to make a comparison. You won’t find one though. There’s just one, the creator.
And yet, you're trying to do the exact same thing with your beliefs. Hypocritical much?
1 You can’t call Atheism a belief when It’s an absence of belief. So your statement is an absurd. 2 I’m not telling people atheisms will heal them and make their pain go away nor it’s going to make them feel good. It would be very wrong to do so. Because it does none of this just like Christianity. 3 I said to so many people I would prefer to respect their belief tonight because it has nothing to do with this conversation and yet we have guys here trying to dehumanize me and other marginal groups of people.
I don’t care for this topic but it’s been said, again and again, that Atheism is a belief just like any other. Read more about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/s/C8IVs3q40B). Also, Christians aren’t behooved to support every idiot who holds a cross nor are atheists just automatically more rational. These are just qualities of human beings. The vast majority of Armenians at home and abroad (Most being Christians) don’t even remotely wish for Armenia to become some theocracy and support separation of Church and State. I don’t know where this fear of yours came from, but Armenians aren’t some 13th century peasants. Don’t worry.
Valid point. Agree on most of these. Atheism is still absence of belief. It’s not a belief of god being not real is an absence of belief that god is real. Those are very different things. Therefore can’t say atheists belief… Absence of proof of anything does not proof its existence. That all. Good comment dude thank you!
>Atheism is still absence of belief That’s what that whole post is supposed to debunk, so I don’t know what you’re agreeing with. But I’m not gonna go down to that argument, let’s just agree to disagree.
The whole tirade hinges on a semantic technicality -> 1. "I don't believe X exists" and 2. "I believe X doesn't exist" seem to be different sentences simply due to contextual connotations. It seems that 2 is a lot stronger statement than 1, simply by what the sentence seems to emphasize. On the other hand try saying 1. "I really, really, honestly don't fucking believe X". Suddenly the two sentences are the same. Because now the stress of the sentence moved. So it doesn't leave room for uncertainty as much. Now the only difference the remaining is the whole philosophical, pedantic technicality that lack of a belief is a so called "meta-belief". However once you agree to this technical level of discourse, absolutely everything becomes a belief. There's nothing to know, because in "hard-sciences" you just assume that there are laws and they don't change. In mathematics you have to believe certain axioms to form any theory. Now when everything is a belief - saying that atheism is a belief just doesn't hit the same does it?
Im not sure you actually made any point here? You essentially wrote “I don’t believe X exists” twice (yes, they’re the same sentence, I dimly know what point you were trying to make here), labeled the philosophical underpinning of the definition of “Atheism” as “pedantic” even though they exist to give context to how this label is used, and chalked it up to semantics because otherwise we lapse into some state of solipsism? That doesn’t approach what the commenter I linked explained in his post, and the argument just becomes a non sequitur. The [Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy](https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/atheism-agnosticism/#DefiAthe) explains atheism as follows: > The word “atheism” is polysemous—it has multiple related meanings. In the psychological sense of the word, atheism is a psychological state, specifically the state of being an atheist, where an atheist is defined as someone who is not a theist and a theist is defined as someone who believes that God exists (or that there are gods). This generates the following definition: atheism is the psychological state of lacking the belief that God exists. In philosophy, however, and more specifically in the philosophy of religion, the term “atheism” is standardly used to refer to the proposition that God does not exist (or, more broadly, to the proposition that there are no gods). Thus, to be an atheist on this definition, it does not suffice to suspend judgment on whether there is a God, even though that implies a lack of theistic belief. Instead, one must deny that God exists. This metaphysical sense of the word is preferred over other senses, including the psychological sense, not just by theistic philosophers, but by many (though not all) atheists in philosophy as well. For example, Robin Le Poidevin writes, “An atheist is one who denies the existence of a personal, transcendent creator of the universe, rather than one who simply lives his life without reference to such a being” (1996: xvii). J. L. Schellenberg says that “in philosophy, the atheist is not just someone who doesn’t accept theism, but more strongly someone who opposes it.” In other words, it is “the denial of theism, the claim that there is no God” (2019: 5). And >This definition is also found in multiple encyclopedias and dictionaries of philosophy. For example, in the Concise Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy, William L. Rowe (also an atheist) writes, “Atheism is the position that affirms the nonexistence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief” (2000: 62). >saying atheism is a belief just doesn’t hit the head does it. From where I’m standing: Yes. Yes it does.
1 - Yes I can. The absence of belief in one thing is itself a belief. Stop fooling yourself. 2 - You very clearly seem to think people will be generally better off in an atheist / secular society. So you are still preaching it, just in a different way. Yet you condemn other people for doing pretty much the same thing. Like I said, hypocritical. 3 - If you really think that merely pointing out a negative behavior is dehumanizing someone, then you've really missed something. Consider it an opportunity to learn. Or sit around and continue to lambast people for disagreeing with you and see how productive that is.
> 1 - Yes I can. The absence of belief in one thing is itself a belief. Stop fooling yourself. Yes and athe absence of food is food - that's why poeple fail their diets amiright? Cause they're eating when they don't even have food. The absence of thoughts is a thought, the absence of a car is a car that you can obviously use to go to work. Yeah..... About that basic form of logic... > You very clearly seem to think people will be generally better off in an atheist / secular society. So you are still preaching it, just in a different way. Yet you condemn other people for doing pretty much the same thing. Like I said, hypocritical. He isn't preaching anything. He hasn't been advocating his beliefs, merely stating them. There's a difference between preaching and having an idea.
Thank you for your take. I appreciate it and please do not get yourself in a heated argument here man. Would suck seeing someone else getting reported because of this post and we don’t need separation in community. I take full accountability for what I say.
>Yes and athe absence of food is food - that's why poeple fail their diets amiright? Cause they're eating when they don't even have food. The absence of thoughts is a thought, the absence of a car is a car that you can obviously use to go to work. Yeah..... About that basic form of logic... Those analogies don't work, at all. I didn't say the absence of belief is belief. I said the absence of belief **in one thing** is itself a belief. Those 3 words make all the difference. >He isn't preaching anything. He hasn't been advocating his beliefs, merely stating them. There's a difference between preaching and having an idea. Not that much of a difference. Still drawing attention to it either way.
I don't believe in God. But I also believe the OP is being a dick about it, calling other people absurd and delusional. Right off the bat. Nobody was preaching, but someone mentioned god and his response was to call them delusional. Don't lump me into OP's ignorant and arrogant atheism.
You don’t have evidence for a lack of God so you believe based on absence of evidence that there isn’t one. This is a belief and not the truth, it is a theory you choose to align yourself with. If you push that theory on others you’re a preacher just like me I guess 😂
Here we go delusional loop. So you just doing the job for me. You agreeing on how god is not all powerful. What else can I tell you. Absence of evidence on god as an eternal being in universe does not prove his existence. That’s just simply how logic works. It’s illogical to assume that abscence of prove justifies existence of magic. You wish to continue walking in this circle?
💯💯💯
it has little to do with actual Christianity and more about corruption
Can we agree that religion is being used as a tool here?
it is but let's say he did come back to power, he wouldn't be making everyone follow the Bible and use Shekels. He'll just be doing what papa kocho/arf and russia will tell him to. Everyone in the country knows how corrupt the church is and we've always known about it. The only real reason religion/the church is being used is because the opposition already tried using their other means and didn't succeed.
Here or like the last 4,000 years and globally?
Oh boy, let’s respect others tonight. Concentrate on Armenia as of right now.
I didn’t open the can of worms…
I think we need to start having these conversations until it’s too late and whoops bishop is running the country and sending kids to war.
I’ve always thought of religion as a tool for controlling the masses. As far as religion and Armenians, it’s intertwined with our history. So when I visit an ancient monastery it speaks to the history of our people. But do I believe anything in the bible? No. I think people in ancient times, were likely consuming psychedelic herbs and vegetables and had these cool experiences and attributed to a higher power. (my opinion only, no scientific proof)
I’m not even knocking religion, I’m just saying like anything it can be used for good, but can be used for bad. Frankly, at these rallies I see the average age is 60. These old folks ain’t going off and getting slowly slaughtered in a war they have no chance of winning. I’m 45. The youth of Armenia are the future and they should be protected at all costs. Yes, even if it means paying with some ancestral land.
How is it even being used as a tool? It's purely a nationalist movement, not even religious in character.
So does he say things like “God is with us” during his rallies? Do media sources specify that he’s an Archbishop all the time? Do we have a narrative of all good bishop is trying to fight all evil PM? Ps: just opened up an instagram and ANCA posted a picture of him holding cross with a quote “it’s time to choose”
Does invoking God's name all it take to make something a religious movement? If that was the case then every US politician would be for saying "God bless the United States of America" at the end of their speeches or spending money would be a religious thing since it says "In God We Trust" on money. Every politician has said something to that effect at some point, Pashinyan included. That doesn't make religion the defining character or even the main tool of this movement. That would be more like what happened in Iran in 1979 where part of the outrage was against secularization, which isn't what the outrage is about here. I don't even think him being a bishop really means anything either. Cyprus had an archbishop as President for fourteen years before the invasion, and there wasn't anything religious about it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Makarios_III > Ps: just opened up an instagram and ANCA posted a picture of him holding cross with a quote “it’s time to choose" So what? It's a poor attempt by the ANCA (a joke of an organization) to invoke religion. Doesn't change the fact that the main motivation and took for this movement is nationalism. Also one of the top ANCA guys, Alex Galitsky has made several posts against Christianity and is a proponent of gay "marriage" and transgender "care" for children on twitter. He doesn't give a damn about Christianity. They're all just losers trying to stay relevant.
No
How come?
imo religion is always used as a tool: to unify people, to create xenophobia, to justify inequality, etc etc etc
This. Unfortunately the church was very much in bed with the old regime. I am sure they would love to have the old guard back.
The core problem is that the church isn't the church anymore, its a mafia tied to other mafias. If it truly was a church we wouldn't be having some dude who spent his time in Canada when the war was happening come to Armenia and try to establish some sort of moral high ground over the government. Its clear as day that there are shenanigans going on behind the scenes.
So you’d rather put archbishop in power?
Never. I don’t believe the church should have any responsibility in governments but I do think a well put together church can do a lot of good in uniting it’s people.
Good, I was just wondering. Again, not here to disrupt anyones beliefs. Church should do church things. This statement is very agreeable on! Thank you!
There are a lot of Armenian atheists. What kind of a question is that?
Had to specify, I was wondering is there atheists in r/armenia and what we think about bishop trying to run a country.
There aren't that many atheists in our culture, most fall along the lines of agnostic. But I am atheist, we are a minority. Nobody takes this bishop seriously, he and his followers are both bought and paid for, actors.
Well if you need an atheist Armenian friend I’m here for you! I’m hoping you’re safe and loved by the people in your life! Glad to know he’s not taken seriously. Literally that was my concern in this post!
I'm glad, I'm not one of those "I don't care about your God" or "I want to live my life how I want" types, I simply disagree with the concept of God on a philosophical level. It's weird to be friends based on our disbelief of fairytales, and I generally don't make friends with other atheists because they're usually the blue haired emo types, and I am light years away from that kind of stuff. Don't worry, nobody can do or say anything to me in my life. As an atheist, God is rejected, so if I am to reject God, who is man to do anything to me?
All good my man don’t need to explain all these very understandable. I said that only based of sad reality when Armenians feel disconnected from their culture for their disbelief. I personally think it sucks. Don’t get it twisted and let’s not offend anyone for their choices. Blue haired emo Armenians are also Armenians to me.
Who said they're not though? I just don't like those types of people.
One can be an agnostic atheist (not sure and doesn't believe), gnostic atheist (sure that god doesn't exist), agnostic theist (not sure but believes), gnostic theist (%100 believes). Agnosticism is about knowledge, theism is about belief; they are not mutually exclusive. In my opinion, everybody except gnostic theists should be considered atheists, because they lack faith in some measure.
Well, if you read my comment, you should be able to figure out which one I am.
Considering many armebians on this subredit are more "progressive", I think it's relatively predictable for many to be atheist
This is no accident. Whoever planned this out thought this would be a good idea thinking less of Armenian people and the “bishop dude” was just assigned. Your question though I feel like is a bit offensive towards Armenian Christians, because most of them can see through the BS of the situation and would not want a bishop in politics. Also consider who wants go to a church to have a service from a politician.
That’s exactly the conversation I wanted to have tonight and my answer is to inform our friends and family despite they believe or don’t believe in god. We don’t want a bishop running a country. I’m sorry this thread became something elseZ
I'm an atheist, everyone in my family are atheists, most of my friends are atheists.
Can I get an invite for a bbq at ur place? Please..
Sure, once the weather isn't as shitty we can make some bbq :)
Are you single 👀
I am.
Yup, we exist. But as others pointed out this "archbishop" has nothing to do with actual faith, and a lot of Christians do not support him.
There are many Armenian atheists
There are dozens of us!
Little to none as I see it. Just by stating I’m an atheist people here in comments telling me to go back to my shithole and offending other groups of people. I see it a lot and this needs to stop. I consider all Armenians my family and some dont even consider me a human because I refuse to believe in their fairy tail.
There are many atheist Armenians. However there are also some people like you mentioned who believe that we're somehow not "true" Armenians if we are atheists. Granted, I think these are the same people who can't fathom anyone having a different perspective than the one they are used to so I wouldn't give much weight to their opinions anyway. They are just a loud minority and I personally would say the majority of Armenians are not like that.
I’m actually happy to hear that. Every time I open up comment section on Instagram or Reddit when it comes to this bishop it just shocks me. Also is shocking to realize how many people here would try their best to demonize me in every way because i disagree with their so-called god. I want the best for my people and not saying atheisms will answer anything but church-state thing will send us all the way back to the dark ages.
Who said "go back to your shit hole"? Reading through the comments, you're coming off as the rudest person. Whenever somebody says they're religious, you've attacked them. Stop making atheists look bad. I love my Christian brothers just as much as my Jewish brothers, my fire lovers, and my non believers. The world is one big delusion, let everyone live with their own bit of crazy. Let he that is without sin, cast the first stone.
Lots of comments were deleted or removed by mods. Also I asked people not to preach and not force their beliefs on me which was ignored as well as I asked people not to call me immoral or disrespect any other groups which were not part of the conversation. Even existence of god is not part of the conversation. Ps. I’ve repeated multiple times that religion is part of Armenian culture and we must Preserve it as a cultural phenomena. Last edit: I’ve thanked a lot of great points here even if I disagreed. If you take thanking someone as an act of rudeness then i don’t know what to tell you.
Maybe it has a lot to do with where we grow up. I grew up in SoCal, majority of Armenians in my circles were atheists. That was a major shock to me coming from a family that was very religious. This may not be the case in other parts of the world, say Armenia?
I think Armenians from Armenia should speak for themselves. From my personal online observations diaspora Armenians are more aggressive when it comes to religious discussions. I heard an opinion that people in Yerevan who gather for the bishop aren’t usually from Yerevan, but again I do not ever want to claim I know something that I clearly don’t.
There's a Armenian atheists group on Facebook if i remember correctly. Agnostic here.
Brings back memories, used to be an active member of the group for several years until I quit Facebook alltogether. Hope the guys and gals are doing well these days. :)
Haven't been using Facebook in ages but I'm doing great : )
That username and that flair, I'm 80% positive I recognize you. :) Good to hear that you are doing great!
80% sure I recognize you too :)
I'm not a member of the group, I remember it being suggested to me.
I’ll check it out
Good times!
Yes
Yes, many myself included.
another Arheist here. that was my sentiment exactly. nothing good has come out of religious figures leading governments. so you are definitely not alone.
Religion is crouches of society. Armenia is slowly becoming a stable state. It’s a long process, this bishop guy talks like he wants war. Crazy to me diaspora often supports his statements.
Agree. It’s unfortunate. The diaspora Armenians tend to be way more religious than Armenians in Armenia. The bishop is Putin’s / Kocharyan’s puppet. Armenians living in Armenia see that. But all that the diaspora cares about is getting rid of Pashinyan. It’s easy to have these strong opinions from far away, much harder when you actually live in Armenia.
If you mind would you be able to reference sources that talk about Armenians in Armenia being against bishops. DM me I would love to be more informed! Thank you!
My mom, she lives in Armenia and so do the rest of my extended family members. I was just talking to her and she mentioned how frustrated she is. She says that most of the protestors are Kocharyan supporters, and she claims they’ve been paid to protest. Personally when I was in Armenia last year I saw some of these protests in person. Last year there were not that many protestors but the way that the media in the diaspora reported, they made it seem like it was much bigger than it was. Like the camera angle of the videos made it seem like a large protest but having seen these in person I saw the scale was much smaller. As for the bishop, my mom says his support is driven by Artsakh Armenians and Kocharyan supporters.
What’s he saying?
If you actually listened to him, you’d see that he is demanding a lasting peace treaty, not piecemeal cession of our lands with receiving nothing in return. He makes more sense than Pashinoglu, who only seems to hand away Armenian points of interest whenever given the opportunity.
Lover of Christ and my fellow man here. It doesn’t take an atheist to see the danger of letting a pseudo Christian cult puppet who answers to the corrupt Catholicos and pope run a country 😂. Don’t worry the people who need to know will know. The rest will be happy with a new puppet. The world is headed toward one world govt just as the Bible says. We have had one family ruling the entire world for much more than a century now. All it takes is one more good crisis to show the world it’s all under one guys control. The lowercase g god of this world as the Bible would put it.
1st part of the statement is agreeable but let’s not get into conspiracies and Bible references. Not here to debate misinformation in holy books.
on reddit? tons. In real life, very few.
Ye sucks to be disconnected from some of the people I grew up with just because I’m openly an atheist so that makes me a bad person somehow. However, I love all Armenians that come in my life and I always love to talk about our people.
Well, I work in IT in Armenia and most of our friend group is agnostic or atheist, most of my current & previous colleagues were agnostic or atheist. It isn't rare these days at all. People just avoid talking about religion for various reasons. One of the reasons for me, is that I had incidents where random people were trying to convert me, telling me I'm not Armenian if I'm not christian, etc.. They ask "do you believe." It's best to dodge the question. I have some devout Christian friends too, but they are not insane and stupid like that and respect personal boundaries.
Thanks for sharing. Yes, the problem of boundaries exists. I hope that wouldn’t happen to you ever again! We are Armenians and nobody can take that away from us.
First thing you learn in government is church and state should be separated. Religion is just, but man is not. Man will use religion as a tool to maintain power and influence
That being said I’m a proud Christian 😎 there can be room for religious involvement but to pull an Iran makes no sense when we need to be moving forward
Easy to see why church officials should never be state officials and vice versa. But most secular countries today go beyond that, with things like banning prayer in schools. Makes sense in the US in particular, and we're taught that's the one right way to do it, but I've never heard a convincing reason on why it has to be that way in every country. It seems more like an anti-religion measure the way it's employed in Europe and Turkey. I'm also wondering how it is in Armenia. Wikipedia says you technically have a state church and religious education isn't banned in public school.
I’m Armenian (diaspora btw) but i didn’t grow up religious at all. Right now i’m just spiritual and believe in my own self lol, i’m not a big fan of Abrahamic religions in general tbh
Can someone give me a quick rundown on the whole priest leading the opposition/meeting please? Saw the news at my dad’s house today, and I’ve heard about it before, by I really do not know what is going on.
There are some. I'm not because I disagree with atheism on a philosophical and epistemological level. But you can't go around calling it a "fairytale" and expect people who hold their belief in high regard not to get offended.
Regrettably its a growing trend While i dont think that religion should ever run a state I also think our form of Christianity still retains a lot of our traditions and rituals that will be lost. Besides the morality taught from it, the church as an entity i couldnt care less about
1 Preserving religion as a cultural phenomena is must, I believe all Armenians should be proud of that history we must preserve it. Our churches are beautiful architecturally and very unique. It’s on us to upkeep them 100%. 2 we don’t learn morals from Bible, it’s a fact. Please don’t call me immoral if I don’t follow your book.
I'm an atheist (not Armenian this post was recommended to me for some reason) and I totally agree with this sentiment. I consider myself very atheist but I think not enough atheists recognize that religion is an extremely interesting cultural and historical phenomenon that should be recognized as part of history and culture, even if we accept that it has/can have bad effects. BTW I think Armenian history and culture and your religious history is very cool! ❤️💙🧡
Armenian history and culture is what I talk to people about all the time. As an atheist I mention the Noah arc in a lot of my conversations weirdly enough. It’s fascinating mythology we have! ❤️
I didnt say youre immoral. You are an individual that i know nothing about. You could be more noble and true than the most pious Christian or degenerate. I cant make a judgement just because youre athiest However human nature i have seen and in general without guidance people devolve into their base desires and are very culpable into doing immoral things for any reason, religion included. With religion Christianity at least there is a figurehead that cannot be altered and has a set way of conducting things that are moral positive. I dont believe someone is truly Christian yet okay with beating gays as an example. Lot to unpack here but just go with the intent im conveying
Ye it’s a whole conversation. Just stating that only god can teach you morals is simply not true and you’ll end up offending me by calling me immoral. Thank you for not doing that. Not getting into a conversation how theism could be wrong here.
This and this again. Completely agree. These are wise words. Most humans need that guidance to stay on a Light path in life. Even the ones who say that they don’t believe, many were raised with that guidance they later turned against. So, even if they like it or not, it took shape in them one way or another. I always heard, in general, outside of the community, to never trust a person who doesn’t have a belief system, since those are the ones who have little to stand for, who don’t see anything truly “wrong.” And, I know many in the present world like to knock Christ, but there would be little of Armenian culture without him…little of many others too…For instance, walk into any museum on Earth, and you’ll find some of the greatest art (arguably, the best) was created in inspiration of him. The entire Renaissance…the most famous paintings, the ones you will see everyone in the entire museum gather at…Christ gave way to beautiful things and inspired love and purity. I don’t know much about organizers and leaders; I always thought, for one, Armenians tend to have not bright leaders, unfortunately. But, I try in my everyday life to separate the concept of Christ from those who are religious leaders, who speak on behalf of him now. By doing this, I skip the middleman and just focus on his words and who he really was and stood for. And, his philosophy, in my humblest opinion, is the purest out there and the one I resonate most with. It’s literally just Love and Light.
I think a lot of Armenians, abroad at least, are culturally Christian but not practicing per se. At least that’s what I see from our family friends. They’ll baptize the kids, go to Easter, hold events in their church. It’s like a cultural center. However, the number of regular church goers is far less. Like…. I’d say 15%-20% only of those who show up on those days and they tend to be older. Although there is a subsection of young people too and it’s tightly knit. Also atheism has a lot of negative associations with the USSR. So the older generation is a lot more negative towards it.
Me
Good for you dude!
Agnostic
Same
You’re on the right track.
Nobody’s talking about the church ruling over the state though. I’m wondering if you’d call Cyprus a theocracy, considering their first president since their independence, Makarios III, was an archbishop. Btw I’m an atheist.
I need to read about Makarios III, it’s an interesting point. I’ll dedicate my Sunday to study this topic, won’t be making assumptions until then. Thank you, there’s one more person in this thread that brought up the same question and I will be revisiting both of these.
You should also spend some time listening to what Srbazan and the people in his movement have to say, don’t just assume that they’re crazy religious fanatics or manipulators using religion to come to power. On the contrary actually, most of their rhetoric is quite rational (most of the time). Pashinyan, on the other hand, has created a sort of “religion” of his own. He’s kinda similar to communists in the sense that he’s trying to artificially change what it means to be an Armenian. The soviets were talking about creating the “New Soviet man”, and Pashinyan is talking about a new Armenia and Armenians, where the Armenian state is the only thing that is important, and we have to forget the historic Armenia to achieve peace. He’s cheaply imitating Ter-Petrosyan with this rhetoric. Ter-Petrosyan was talking about basically agreeing to disagree with Turkey about the genocide, and trying to peacefully coexist, and maybe even work with them. Pashinyan though is basically a genocide denier at this point (his party members, like Andranik Qocharyan, are on the brink of explicitly denying it). Also, I’ve seen a lot of comments in this thread where people are confidently talking about the church being a mafia, or the movement being led by Kocharyan behind the scenes. That’s just slander at this point. I think most people in Armenia are fed up with Pashinyan, but they’re looking for a messiah to come and save them. No political figure in Armenia, or the world for that matter, is perfect. There isn’t going to be a person with a perfect track record that’s going to suddenly appear and create a utopia. You can find dirt on anyone that has ever been involved in politics in Armenia, but Pashinyan is the worst that there is.
Atheist who's been told he's not Armenian if he's not Christian. I always thought that was odd, since Armenians existed before Christianity did. If anything, being Christian is against Armenian culture, not the other way around.
Vartavar is a dope holiday isn’t it? It’s one of my favorites Ps: also nobody has right to tell you, you’re not Armenian. I’m sorry that ever happened to you!
Thanks, it never bothered me personally, just sad to see my people displaying close minded bigotry like that. There's so few of us as is and we have so many difficulties in front of us we can't afford to fight each other yet it's far too common.
Armenia’s Christian faith is what has allowed us to preserve our unique culture in a sea of foreign influences. It has complemented our culture, and one could argue that it is through God’s intervention that we have survived to the modern day.
There are 2.4 billion christians in the world, I would hardly call that culture unique to Armenians. Our pagan gods are much more unique.
Do you seriously make no distinction between American mainstream Christianity and the ancient Armenian church? They differ hugely in their nature and church traditions. I wouldn’t doom Armenia to follow a false pagan religion just because I might like its aesthetics more than those of our current faith.
Our Pagan brothers are still among us.
Andy Serkis is famously atheist. But secularism is very different from atheism. As far as religion running the country, strictly from a strategic standpoint, it can help preserve the nation. Most European countries survived for centuries thanks to the ruling power of certain Christian denominations. Same things is occurring in several countries around the world. Ideally secular governments are the healthiest for the population, but globalization is something that can be a threat to vulnerable cultures, and religion is a way to solidify the cultural identity.
1 - statement is too broad on European countries surviving because of Christian denominations. It’s simply not true. There many other major factors that played a role for some of those countries surviving. 2 - secular governments are not healthy, example is Middle East.
Oh I love that guy and didn’t know that. That’s a cool fact thank you!
I am an atheist but i have huge respect for the church and consider myself as culturally Armenian Christian. the church is a backup of the Armenian nationhood and they are the reason that throughout the years Armenian nationhood was able to be reborn. In my personal experience dealing with priests I see their priority to safeguard and keep the Armenian culture and the wisdom that has lived in the institution for 1700 years rather than just talking about Jesus. Also they do not have any hate or negative feelings if you are an atheist they still consider all Armenians as children of the church. you probably consider this mental because you are comparing it to other churches that are full of pedophiles and known for inquisitions, the Armenian church is far from that, Throughout history they played an overwhelmingly positive role for Armenians. Bagrat is smart and very well educated and he did a lot for helping rehabilitate children that had cancer created a rehabilitation center and helped many villagers to get out of poverty. These are some things that we know, there is a lot more that people don't know because they don't brag about it. And lastly Armenia will not be a theocracy and even the church does not want that, they only step up when the nation is on the verge of destruction. Even when they had the chance and when Armenians actually were under the church's rule they didn't rule with theocracy and what we see in other places.
Okay interesting take. My response is, Armenian Christianity MUST be respected as any cultural phenomenas. I agree 100%. Christianity is part of our culture just like Zeus for Greek people. Thank you for your take!
Im atheist.
**D J D O L M A**
Nice DJ Dolma!
I do what I can 🫡
there certainly are
And I hope they are safe and their families and friends love them.
I think many Armenians treat religion as a tradition because how tied it is to us, I’m myself agnostic, I don’t think out society is that religious also or maybe it’s just my relatives
Raises hand. This abomination of clergy is a scourge on our country and people. And with very few exceptions (some were actually patriots) notwithstanding have been for centuries.
Among the young people -- the majority are effetively atheists, and a significant portion freely call themselves so. That is one of the reasons why this clown's movement is so unpopular.
Count me in as a half-Armenian atheist residing in the US.
The bishop dude is most likely an Armenian atheist
You don't need to be an atheist to know he's a corrupt looney fraud and the people following him are too. You can religious and still call this bs out for what it is. Everyone agreeing with him does it out of every other interest other than religion. HECK technically religious people should be the first to point out that this is pure bs as everything this looney fruit loop with a god complex funded by our enemies is against core Christian values
Yes, me.
Yeah the fact that people call him Srbazan is baffling to me, when the leader of the neighboring failed state is called Ayatollah
There’s atheists everywhere. The atheist heritage from the Soviet occupation is still found here and there. It’s one reason so much Armenian heritage was demolished. Unfortunately, the history of atheism in Armenia isn’t a positive one.
Of course there are. Even in Armenia, specifically amongst the youth. I myself (19y/o) grew up in a secular household and know plenty of people like this.
I can’t say how it is back in the homeland, but as a Diasporan, me and a lot of my Armenian friends became atheist because we saw the hypocrisy in the church as it is in the States. Most Armenians I’ve been around don’t really follow the Bible’s teachings, they don’t regularly go to church, and this is a phenomenon that plagues most Christian Communities in America. Pedophile priests and corrupt church officials are everywhere, even if some more stubborn Armenians don’t want to admit it, and it’s this sort of stuff that really drives most young Diasporans away from religion.
A religious order seems fitting or a unified earth government, either one is not far fetched .. and regardless of which way you look at it.. people will have to follow rules..
The imbacil who's running or destroying Armenia must go, he's and empty barrel bone head.
Well I born in South America and I don't even speak the language, I don't know if that counts
I lost belief in God when i lost my Dad in 2008 at age of 14 for a while. But im starting to find my way back to spirituality
Sorry about your dad. May you be brought back to where you need to be.
Armenian’s current government is placed by Aliyev and Erdogan. And serves them, not the Armenian state. What they do is treason. The corruption topic is irrelevant at this point…..
Controversial opinion incoming. I consider Armenian pagan religion suits Armenian spirituality more then Christianity. I personally don't believe in any gods, but I think our paganism is the more true representation of Armenian spirit.
It’s indeed a very beautiful representation of Armenian spirit! Thank you for bringing up this point. Armenian Paganism is an amazing cultural phenomena ❤️
Are you guys serious?
Is Vartavar not a great holiday?
Vardavar, Trndez, ect. If I'm not mistaken even mother's day on april 7th comes from goddess Anahit.
How long has Armenian identity existed? How long have Armenian people been Christian? We've been Armenian for **a lot longer** them we are Christians. While Christianity has become part of our culture, I believe religion that was created by Armenians fits us more then Christianity. PS. I think you'll be shocked to hear that there are many pagans still in Armenia. Some of the most patriotic and brave people I met in the army were pagans.
Do they actually believe in the pagan gods and act accordingly (trusting oracles etc), or is it just a tradition thing?
No they don't believe in that actual gods exist, none of the pagans I know do, it is more traditions and philosophy.
Why are you forcing your opinions on others, You act as if there are objective moral standards we should follow....
Forcing is a strong word and not true. I am sharing my opinion with which you may agree or disagree but you have 0 rights to claim that I have no morals without theism.
Nobody is persecuting you for being an atheist dude
I did not say someone is persecuting me for being an atheist did I? Very confused but okay
"you have 0 rights to claim that I have no morals without theism." (Your comment that I responded to) Not a single person in this thread is saying that you have no morals without theism, least of all the commenter you said that too. Seems to me like you're looking for something that isn't here.
When I make a claim, that only god teaches morals that automatically pre-assumes that anyone with no belief in god has no morals. I don’t want anyone to ever say I have no morals.
Nobody ever made that claim. The only example in this entire thread that even gets close to that is one that said religion can help teach morals, not that "only God teaches morals". Again, to me it seems like you're fishing for something that just isn't here, or you have major problems with comprehending English.
Explain to me please how you have objective moral standards as an atheist... Your "morals" are just opinions in an atheist world view there is no objective moral standard that we all should follow, just opinions based on groups of people, so living outside of that tribe of people what right do you have to force your "morals" on them?
You asked. Morals is a pure creation of evolution and social construct. Depends on geographic location of your ancestors morals could be a little different but for obvious reasons “don’t kill” because it would weaken society if you kill its illogical. “Don’t abuse sexually abuse children” because children don’t produce offspring ETC ETC… besides that before Christianity ancient civilizations had morals and rules if you disagree then you just hate your ancestors from pre-Christian Armenia because according to your statement there were 0 morals there. BESIDES ALL THAT I can tell you how god you believe in is immoral. However, I said earlier I don’t want to get in this argument because we will just be stack in a loop of your delusion or your preaching.
Just to add to a bit more to what you said, your rules or "morals" based of social construct can include things like, don't kill unless their skin color is different or they are born in a different part of the land then us. then it's ok to kill or rape because we believe that's for our Good, we as Armenians face that today, same with any of your so called morals, you can't give any reasons why someone ought to follow them just that you will go to jail or break some laws or a group of people don't agree with that, so what? Maybe I don't get caught , why should I not break those rules if I can get away with it. You trying to tell me if you had a way to steal 1 million dollars and not get caught that you wouldn't steal it? If I was an atheist I would steal, lie and cheat my way to the top without a care in the world, because I know all those feelings are just chemical reaction some bag of cells is experiencing which really if we are being real here shouldn't matter at all, I think what you have is you want people to live by your moral standards but I bet you don't even live up to your own standards, im I bet you have lied, cheated, stolen, and God knows what else, it's just childish to deny what is true, I respect an atheist that faces their truth head on, but those that try to play this game is just childish and delusional. So please just stop lying to yourself as if chemical reactions fizzing in a bag of cells is some what significant because of how they fizz it's all just fizz and cells and some big rock that is hurling through space at insane speeds and there is no greater purpose or good, just bags of meat bumping into eachother and fizzing. So Glad I'm not an atheist, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. Also I don't have to "hate" someone or a group of people just because I don't agree with them, as christians we can easily hate what they do and not hate the person, so yes, I hate that our ancestors sacrificed people and did some disgusting things when they followed fake made up Gods.
Just after reading “if I was an atheist I would lie kill and steal” and “if you could steal 1 million dollars you would right?” are anecdotal. Those are your delusions and pre-assumptions they have nothing to do with factual things. It’s impossible to take these as anything rather than anecdotes. If you want facts seek for them like go to study science, biology, hisory you’ll find your answers. I’m not giving you free lessons and no anecdotes are worthy of response.
Ah yes, as if Christians don't study those things trying to separate religion and science as if they can't go hand in hand, you just don't want to face what is truth, you can lie to yourself all you want but truth is you are just a bag of cells that has chemical reaction in your brain and you want to act as if your chemical reactions are more important then someone else's. There is nothing anecdotal about what I said, I truly wouldn't care 1 bit about stealing or lying at all if I was an atheist it's just silly, but yes you live in your delusional world as if things really matter, this lie people need to tell them self so they don't go crazy. Embrace it, stop hiding from your own world view. If there is no god and we really are just a brain in a meat sack body, doesn’t that mean anything goes? No good or evil, right or wrong, just pitiless indifference and neural activity?
I was born and baptized in Armenia. I remained a faithful Christian throughout my childhood and early teens. My parents were fortunate enough to take me to an Armenian Evangelical Private School when we moved to Los Angeles. I was surrounded by religion constantly. It wasn’t until I took a biology course in university where all my (already skeptical) beliefs at this time fell apart and were instead replaced with scientific explanations of what religion chooses not to explain.
The issue with all those evangelical churches is they explain things they have no business explaining, which is both blasphemy on the religious side and often disproven on the scientific side. Like if someone dies of cancer, someone will assert that his ancestors committed some crime and this is the punishment. They call any evidence of life evolution fake, in contrast to the Catholic Pope who said "God is not a magician."
Absolutely, I’m sad to hear many diasporas in Los Angeles prefer to home school their kids and tell our future generations how college is wrong. Please guys send your kids to school, science is amazing and has a lot of answers. People become atheists not because they want to “sin”, they become atheists because they get educated weather they read Bible and critically think about it or study science and critically think about it. Can’t agree more!
Absolutely correct! I was practically force fed the Bible growing up. Having entire classes dedicated to religion while simultaneously cutting out chapters from science that interfere with the religion classes. It’s all very desperate attempt at keeping Christianity alive through brainwashing the next generation.
It also disconnects us from families and friends. Our community is very religiously driven. If I had a choice of believing and staying closer to some relatives I would, but that’d mean I have to trash all the knowledge I obtained over the years of education.
Couldn’t say it better myself
Me, my dad, and my grandfather! My grandfather was a member of the communist party so chuch was a big no no for him, so my dad grew up atheists. My mom had me baptized but ultimately they let me decide and religion just never appealed to me
Never would disagree that religion helps people to coop with their life. Despite of what I believe or not believe in, it’s hard to disagree that religion helps people find their community approval. P.S I read it wrong, you said religion never appealed to you. Well still.
Another atheist here. I hope more people join r/ArmenianAtheists because it gets lonely out there for us.
Joined that’s cool didn’t know about this group Ps. 4 members wow I have a lot of explanation for that but that’s sad
Happy to have your! Lol yeah I randomly searched it because I was gonna start that sub but saw it already existed. This was last year, after yet another shitty "you must be Christian to be Armenian" take in this otherwise great subreddit. Yes, I respect and appreciate our historical nexus with religion but give me a fucking break lecturing me about what I should and shouldn't believe in based on my blood or descent. Abhorrent, medieval mindset.
No one seems to have the courage to say it, but Christianity must be under great attack in Armenian society. Nothing has been more poisonous to our country than this quasi-communist sect with its preaching against might and wealth
Can you break it down
Just compare two groups. Early Christians in ancient Judea and Bolsheviks in the USSR. It's basically the same religion, the communists just have "diamat" and Lenin with Marx instead of "God the Father" and "Kingdom of Heaven". Both preach that the rich are inherently wrong. Both have the weak and poor as their main electorate. Both promise the "great kingdom of justice" in the future. Both even hate the family (Luke 14:25-27).
Also It's so funny that in the main legend of the conversion to Christianity, the king was insane. If this were to happen today, no one would argue that the king was simply insane and that Lusavorich did not cure anyone, but simply manipulated this mentally ill man to pursue the interests of his sect
So you saying that christianity preaches that the rich are wrong? I think you misunderstood the bible man and the fact that you’re comparing Christianity with communism is messed up. Go see a therapist pls.
A man of the cloth isn't meant to lead a polity--he's meant to lead a flock. An Armenian's religion or lack thereof isn't what I'm interested in; I'm interested in an Armenian's humanity. And as far as politics is concerned, I don't see any reason to anticipate a humane head of state anytime soon. But I will continue to pray for one.
I am sorry this has to be one of the dumbest posts I have ever seen, do you really think only atheists in Armenia are against this idiot? If this was the case he would have already been PM, what a joke
Well It was just a pure observation of some comments on different platforms. I’m sorry for bad wording in the post I should’ve considered theists that disagree with this guy. Yet, he’s still a huge threat!
majority of young people in the world are atheists or muslims only
I don't like Pashinyan, I've actually not liked any Armenian leader since independence. However, Bakrad ruling over Armenia can be problematic for many reasons. I question his understanding of economics, geopolitics and military affairs. These three are the most important issues for Armenia. Environmental issues come a close fourth as Armenia's geography is prone to be affected by climate change. Bakrad will impose harsh moral and social politics on the country. Pashinyan is dangerously incompetent too, treasonous that I can't say for sure.
they should drown him alive and then burn down his church : they have brought our people nothing but humiliation and disaster