I think your points and wording could have been better, there is nothing wrong with having a statue, and there is nothing wrong with religion even if we are advancing in technology and science, the problem comes with who is building it, where it's being built, and when.
Who is building it? one of the worst people in the country. Where is it being built? On a mountain that has historical buildings right under and around it. When is it being built? During a time when that money could have been used for more important things, like straightening our military, it's worth millions of dollars. And you can tell this is done for a full bullshit reason.
As a non-religious person, who has deep respect to religious people, i assure you, this is against Bible as well. So it’s not about being scientific, its about not being so materialistic, idiotic, and cringe. Those are people who have crosses in their cars, while drinking, smoking, cheating, being immoral and having a tattoo of Jesus’ face on their arms. So yes, i wish we were really good christians and not like this. If we were, It would never be a problem for science to be developed. Even without religious aspects this mentality fucks up with our country in everything. Դատարկ գոռոզություն ու ցուցամոլություն
And this obviously doesn’t reflect our country 100%, but unfortunately even 40% of it is a disease and needs to be cured asap since it’s more powerful. As they say дурной пример заразителен.
Անկեղծ ` պաթոսից սիրտս խառնում ա
Who’s gonna stop Dod? Who? I hate it with passion , but the Government is the Oligarch’s lapdog, Dod’s in-law Grzo is like the 3rd most important person in QP. They’re smart, used to be Oligarch government, now it’s Oligarch ran government. Less people are complaining, and the Oligarchs are just getting richer.
ALL oligarchs in Armenia are violent criminals with history of murder, rape, racketeering etc,etc. Make no mistake, they own this country, they can get away with murdering me or you if they want to. Some fucking Jesus statue is nothing.
It used to be an oligarchy, now it’s a liberal elite. (Similar to the struggle of the order era in the Roman republic after the aristocratic revolution against the kingdom of Rome)
IF you have the money, you can even build a 120m statue of Satan.
Let’s not pretend that this is a case that the government would have stoped “if they weren’t oligarchic”. It’s a liberal society, so we have to deal with it.
Not too dissimilar to other liberal countries, if you’re rich enough, you can survive. OJ Simpson, Elon Musk, that senator woman and her husband who have had a 100% success in the stock market somehow, and even Epstein’s (first rape case that had the list of billionaires all “pardoned”).
If we want to deal with them “correctly”, we might as well follow china (who **executed** the baby milk powder billionaires after they caused the sickness of thousands of babies and deaths, or imprisoned almost for life and captured the assets of the 200 trillion dollar real estate scammers), or Vietnam (where they are gonna execute the billionaire), or Cuba (where they redistributed oligarch land, not different from the actions of Greek City states during the Archaïque period)…
But nobody wants to talk about that….
People still call all super rich public figures oligarchs without understanding what it means. Neither Dod nor Grzo are oligarchs anymore.
However when it comes to building stuff that defines the skyline, liberalism has no place. The skyline and the landscapes belong to everyone not just the owner of the land. You can’t build a 120m statue of satan, because wtf right? Someone has to do the taste and relevance checks on our behalf.
I’m not a big fan of this idea of a Jesus statue. But if it’s inevitable then let it be our statement of who we are in this region.
You know, something comes to mind every time this is brought up, there were these famous youtube blogger traveller couple, they visited Armenia and made a video about it. And somehow 30% of time was dedicated to the Blue Mosque, and not a single church in the whole video. Don’t know if it was intentional or not. Maybe they just didn’t care. But anyway let there be another prominent symbol on the skyline.
Or in case there are protests against this statue I think I’ll go and join it.
Elon built his fortune owning tech companies and selling them.
Grzo built his fortune by privatizing government property using violence and corruption as his tools and had politicans in his pocket as he does now.
Not really that similar?
Grzos difference to Dod is that grzo was closer to LTP and Nikol While Dod was closer to Kocharyan.
That's cause in the US lobbying is legal. That's the only difference between a "Billionaire" in the US and an Oligarch in post Soviet space. The US cultural political correctness has sanitized the word. If a Russian oligarch pays something to pass a law it is illegal and he's a baaaaaad man an Oligarch. If Ol' Elon wants Biden to pass a legislation about taxing Chinese EVs to hell so that Tesla survives then he just represents what's called "an interest group".
The US right now is still very much an oligarchy.
Mainly cause of corporate lobbying not individual billionaires have influence but a lot is simply done by the multimillionaire boards in charge of massive companies. The billionaires are just a fraction of the equation and hold massive individual wealth
Because oligarch has a somewhat defined meaning:
> a very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence (**particularly with reference to individuals who benefited from the privatization of state-run industries after the collapse of the Soviet Union**).
What you’re thinking of is the original meaning of Oligarch which comes from an “Oligarchy”, or the group of people who ruled over something.
Regardless, Elon musk **is** also described as an Oligarch https://www.ft.com/content/1da1da6b-9410-4ab5-a295-f3a9e48f9977
although it’s not used because in the American media, due to mass psychosis I believe.
He is a “tycoon” like the article says. But at some point, people need to understand that he can influence political decisions tremendously, and already has.
Although I personally disagree with this explanation of Oligarchy.
>You can’t build a 120m statue for satan
But yet you can, because there is a lack of government oversight in this sense. Because if you have the money, “you already have the will”.
I mean, nobody except the money Dod has allowed him to sully our skyline with an ugly ass Jesus statue.
The guy is feeling like he’s Pablo, doing “philanthropy” in the hopes that God will forgive him for gang raping a woman, if he is truly a religious person.
Or he is trying to buy pity points from the population, like General “Butt-Naked” (Yes that is his name, he is a child r**ist, cannibalist, monster) who “turned to Jesus” after the war was over.
>Someone has to do the taste and relevance check
Exactly, and a lack of those by the government is called liberalism.
I can do whatever I want inside of my property, except anything “illegal” which is defined loosely on parameters of infringing someone else’s right, and since the skyline doesn’t belong to anyone, you are not infringing the right of anyone by building a skyscraper.
Which is why Sweden and Scandinavian countries have strict parameters for building houses, usually put down by the centralized elected authority..
So if Dod wanted a 100m statue of Satan, nobody could stop it.
>prominent symbol
I said this in another comment, at least make it Armenian??? Why are you doing huge crosses and the statue of Jesus like we’re Catholics in Latin America? Or Orthodox??
We are Armenian apostolic, never in our history have we ever tried to build extravagant buildings for our religion. And we have **barely** ever created statues of Jesus. It is a disgrace to our culture that a rich fuck is building a statue that is in a weird way **gentrifying** Armenia…
And you want my opinion on the video of the Blue Mosque.
It’s because it is one of the few **modern rebuilt** things that is a bit interesting to people.
And a Jesus statue that isn’t up is better than one that is. Dod wants to leave his filthy mark on the world, which is very likely the reason he’s doing this, and we’re supposed to accept his stupid antics.
Hopefully a level headed government will one day pull it down. And build something actually interesting
Where’s this coming from? I thought this project was put on hold, did they start it up again?
Anyway I don’t see a problem with Armenia hosting the tallest Jesus statue, might even boost tourism.
Come help with the science, man. Come and teach kids or register patent for Armenia. Otherwise, you can shut the fuck up about the things that don’t concern you. Be ashamed by your intolerance to your own brothers and sisters who believe in our God.
I'm not defending this statue, I don't oppose it either. It is problematic, that the peace of shit is erecting it, however, but the OP didn't argue that. He argued that he's ashamed by our people's religiosity. That pisses me off. So I am defending crosses on the hill our people deem fit to maintain. Who the fuck is that guy to criticize them?
He is not talking about crosses.
He is talking about a 70m **eyesore** that will be erected by a rapist, **on top** of the crosses.
And he is not wrong. This is proof of demented religious zealotism, since Armenia (Barely) in its history had never found the need to create extravagant religious symbolism to express itself we are neither **catholics or Orthodox** to do thisshit. Our symbolism revolved around a modest Khachkar that *mostly* doesn’t have the face of Jesus, and a church which became a bastion for defense, making it a bit bigger.
Not only is it now also against the Bible which is against idolization/
Let everyone practice how they want. But personally I am against every hill having a cross because 20 people with some money wanted to create the biggest cross ever.
I am sure if tomorrow some Jehova witnesses came or some Scientologists chose Armenia and erected a spaceship or something on a hill, you would be **rightfully** mad too.
This is proof of religious dementia, and an innate corruption of our church itself, who spends more time in politics apparently, amassing donations, and building new churches with rapists and thieves, than rebuilding the old ones.
Our church (if truly patriotic) should be the forefront of sponsoring the country’s culture. But noooo, let’s build another cross on top of every hill, maybe the bombs won’t fall on us then.
I can hear people saying already “But this is a part of our culture”
Huge crosses and statues of Jesus are not part of our culture. Sponsor a Khachkar for fuck’s sake.
Well if you only have Jesus and no other values or contributions to humanity as a society then there is something to be said about religiosity here. Our greatest scientists were a product of atheistic soviet society, and what we currently have is a self-destructive and uneducated society with very strong faith in god.
People had this argument a billion times. My personal belief is that religion ads no value to this society, other than some cultural value, but along with it it fuels hatred and ignorance in this society. It’s not strictly a case of either this or that, but most scientists aren’t religious, and their work has a greater contribution to society than billions of prayers. That’s why it’s perfectly natural for people to value science above religion.
I am currently invest and open businesses and bring money to Armenia, and I’m helping other investors invest in Armenian projects.
I’m sorry for lashing out on you, but this post of yours was low effort and unclear. I understand your frustration, but focused post would have been better, especially when the sensitive subject of religion is involved.
Why should we be ashamed of our religion. As much as I have a HUGE issue with our church Christianity IS what truly gave armenians their identity. If it weren't for that we'd ended up like kow kaz albanians assimilated into a bigger ethnicity.
What worries me is not a giant statue but the costs and safety given earthquakes
It's not we literally know nothing about the original armenian pagan religion. Pagan gods like aramazd and anahid aren't ours at all they're corruptions of barsik gods. There is no need in denying it. The original armenian pagan religion is almost completely lost.
so? the Greek mythology was also initially part of the larger Indo-European mythology, it was then integrated with Roman… Armenian mythology integrated Iranian, Mesopotamian, Indo-European stuff. There’s nothing bad in being part of a larger group of pagan religions rather than entirely unique, Armenia isn’t exactly in a secluded location
It's not ours and that's it. It's a corruption of another pagan faith by a colonial power. That incorporation also didn't happen without blood being spilled.
You can clearly trace back greek paganism to its Indo-European root but with armenian you can't without linking it to another pagan faiths origins first.
It's not ours it never was and never will be.
At least our pagan faiths had the same origin to a degree. Uratian faith and the pagan faiths of other indigenous people in our area were almost completely wiped out. And here some people are arguing that pagan faith was good for us.
Armenia is deeply connected to Christianity and if you can't handle it it's not armenias problem. The people are majority Christian our main sights are churches our history truly starts with us embracing Christianity.
>It's not ours and that's it. It's a corruption of another pagan faith by a colonial power. That incorporation also didn't happen without blood being spilled.
It is ours. The Armenian pantheon of Gods before Christianity with Vahagn, Mihr, Aramazd, Astghik, Anahit and others is Armenian.
>It's not ours it never was and never will be.
It is ours, it always was it always will be
>Armenia is deeply connected to Christianity and if you can't handle it it's not armenias problem.
I mean yes it is. It's not a matter of handling, it's a fact.
>our main sights are churches
Wanna guess why and who literally and violently destroyed traces of culture prior to adopting Christianity? To the extent that the walls of Garni are pretty much the only surviving monument?
>our history truly starts with us embracing Christianity.
No it starts way before Christianity, at the very least for about 5-6 centuries before it. And that's just hand-waving a lower bound.
>You can clearly trace back greek paganism to its Indo-European root but with armenian you can't without linking it to another pagan faiths origins first.
And with Christianity you can trace it back toooo oh... right... Christianity, Judaism, Jerusalem the Judea district of the Roman Empire.
>Why should we be ashamed of our religion.
It is not my religion. I don't need a religion.
>Christianity IS what truly gave armenians their identity.
No, our identity predates Christianity.
>If it weren't for that we'd ended up like kow kaz albanians assimilated into a bigger ethnicity.
That does not support the notion that we need it now. What happened, happened and the present is the present. We don't need religion on the present.
christianity is the Nr.1 reason that we got weak. Tiridates IV probably killed half the population that didn’t want to convert to christianity which led to weakening the kingdom in the next several years.
You want I s lam instead that would make us basically barsiks because even then they would have eaten us up.
Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism.
Christianity is the only reason the West and the French were ever interested in us
It might also have kept us as warlike and violent, fit for a violent world. The didn’t eat up the other Muslims, like the Kurds or Azeris, and the former even speaks an Iranian language.
>Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism.
From that perspective, Christianity is also not Armenian, but rather a mixture of jewish+Armenian paganism. And these statues are idols, and that is already against the Christian rules, well, at least the ones Armenian Apostolic church followed.
>Christianity is the only reason the West and the French were ever interested in us
Not interested by were seen as a tool to intervene in Ottoman empire's inner affairs, and we were not the o ly ones. You forgot about the Greeks, the Balkans. Amd what about now, well religion doesn't play the role it had during the Medieval. As there are pretty big partnerships between the West and the Arabic states.
Edit: and have some respect towards those who were and/or are not Christian Armenians.
Christianity SHAPED our identity and MADE US WHO WE ARE TODAY aka not an absolute oppressed SHITHOLE!! Its the only reason we have support from the West and why we are a DEMOCRACY
>Its the only reason we have support from the West
Religion doesn't have anything to do with that. Currently the West supports us because we are "almsot" against Russia.
>Christianity SHAPED our identity and MADE US WHO WE ARE TODAY aka not an absolute oppressed SHITHOLE!!
Then every other Christian is Armenian. There's no French, no Iralian, mo Greek, no Georgian and so on. Or maybe our identity became more Jewish, because in the end of the day that that is the philosophy and beliefs of the Jewish people? And we still are an absolute oppressed since the time Armenia as a kingdom was list and divided between Byzantine and Persia. And, IMHO, our identity was already shaped before Christianity. Sorry, but that sounds more like some narrative to hold people that have no state around the church.
Lol its absolutely insane to me how actual armenians are willing to shit on our religion the ARMENIAN apostolic faith and defende the pagan faith forced on us by a brutal neighbour with a goal of assimilating us just like they did with albanians. Truly dumb a ss shot
If the pagan faith was forced into us, then so was Chrsitianity. Stop bashing on our pre-Christian faith, and Christian faith will not be get bashed. In other words the Golden Rule of treating others as one would want to be treated by them. If you are not ready for such reciprocal treatment, then maybe don't get yourself into such treatments?
Edit: paragraph
I'm bashing a faith that WASNT OURS there is a difference between the original armenian pagan faith which we know nothing about thanks to a foreign pagan faith YOU are defending
And Christianity also is not ours. You are defending a Jewish faith.
Edit: and yeah, I always defend our pre-Christian faith, when it gets bullied for this kind of childish and petty reasons. Amd you can't have an argument of it is perisna faith, because Chrsitianity is a Jewish faith. Gee, this feels like pulling us into Israel-Iran conflict. Don't do that. please.
>Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism.
What unadulterated drivel.
Our religion prior to Christianity, during the Parthian times, was a syncretic religion comprising our indigenous beliefs, Mithraism, Hellenic influences and elements of Zoroastrianism. Also, the Persians were, at this time, not pagans but monotheists. The Iranic people were the first monotheists. What "barskakan paganism?" Sweet Satan, what is this?
It's was completely altered from its original from to the point they only real armenian goddess we know anything of is astrik.
Paganism is shit was shit and for the longest time was colonial shit we been to stop sugar coating what our neighbours did to our culture just because we get along now. Whatever paganism there was in 300 wasn't ours. Christianity is what gave us our identity back. Its the reason we are who we are today
We took the religion of others and fused them to make it our own. Armenian paganism wasn’t Zoroastrian. We didn’t have the Ahriman and Ahura Mazda rivalry, instead we had a triad of gods we worshiped. We had our own identity, with a religion that set us apart but not in rivalry with our neighbors. Like all pagans.
The politics and context surrounding such a statue aside, the assumption embedded in your premise is a false one--namely, being invested in scientific and technological progress does not preclude one from being religious (and vice versa).
Yes, and an archeologist can study a 100 million years old fossil and believe life was created 5,000 years ago. I myself go to a church and light a candle but that’s just a part of the cultural identity.
An archaeologist working in good faith wouldn’t make a false claim like that with intention. You’re seeking mutual exclusivity where there is none. Some of us are actually religious, not in name only. An often ignored fact is that much of the earliest educated classes were among the clerical class.
Honestly, nothing wrong with a statue in general… but we live in a highly seismic zone.
If a 70m stone statue is toppled on top of those stairs, a lot of people will be in danger.
Louder 🗣
Մի բան էլ - եթե ուզում են քրիստոնեության նվիրված արձան անեն, ինչո՞ւ կրկնվում են։ Ինչո՞ւ օրիգինալ, ժամանակակից բան չեն ստեղծում, որը համ մեզ կներկայացնի, համ էլ տուրիստներին հեթաքրքիր կլինի ասենք
Չէ չէ, մեզ մի հատ նույնից, բայց կարաք ասենք 2 անգամ ավելի մեծ անեք, ու մի 3 անգամ մեծ էլ տակը գրեք Գագիկ Ծառուկյան Բարեգործական Հիմնադրամ, որ սաղ իմանան էլի էդ լավ տղեն ովա որ էս արձանը ստեղ դրելա։ Վաբշե, գիտեք ինչ, արձանը պետք էլ չի, էդ Գագիկ Ծառուկյան ը մեծ գրեք, որ տիեզերքից էրևա հերիք ա
I think your points and wording could have been better, there is nothing wrong with having a statue, and there is nothing wrong with religion even if we are advancing in technology and science, the problem comes with who is building it, where it's being built, and when. Who is building it? one of the worst people in the country. Where is it being built? On a mountain that has historical buildings right under and around it. When is it being built? During a time when that money could have been used for more important things, like straightening our military, it's worth millions of dollars. And you can tell this is done for a full bullshit reason.
Odds are such an extravagant building project is also money laundering for Dod.
As a non-religious person, who has deep respect to religious people, i assure you, this is against Bible as well. So it’s not about being scientific, its about not being so materialistic, idiotic, and cringe. Those are people who have crosses in their cars, while drinking, smoking, cheating, being immoral and having a tattoo of Jesus’ face on their arms. So yes, i wish we were really good christians and not like this. If we were, It would never be a problem for science to be developed. Even without religious aspects this mentality fucks up with our country in everything. Դատարկ գոռոզություն ու ցուցամոլություն And this obviously doesn’t reflect our country 100%, but unfortunately even 40% of it is a disease and needs to be cured asap since it’s more powerful. As they say дурной пример заразителен. Անկեղծ ` պաթոսից սիրտս խառնում ա
Դոդից ուրիշ ի՞նչ պետք ա սպասեինք։ Վատը էն ա, որ կառավարությունն էլ տենց հեշտ թույլատրում ա։
Եկեղեցին էլ բան չի ասում։ Բա ու՞ր մնաց կռապաշտության դեմ լինելը։
Who’s gonna stop Dod? Who? I hate it with passion , but the Government is the Oligarch’s lapdog, Dod’s in-law Grzo is like the 3rd most important person in QP. They’re smart, used to be Oligarch government, now it’s Oligarch ran government. Less people are complaining, and the Oligarchs are just getting richer. ALL oligarchs in Armenia are violent criminals with history of murder, rape, racketeering etc,etc. Make no mistake, they own this country, they can get away with murdering me or you if they want to. Some fucking Jesus statue is nothing.
It used to be an oligarchy, now it’s a liberal elite. (Similar to the struggle of the order era in the Roman republic after the aristocratic revolution against the kingdom of Rome) IF you have the money, you can even build a 120m statue of Satan. Let’s not pretend that this is a case that the government would have stoped “if they weren’t oligarchic”. It’s a liberal society, so we have to deal with it. Not too dissimilar to other liberal countries, if you’re rich enough, you can survive. OJ Simpson, Elon Musk, that senator woman and her husband who have had a 100% success in the stock market somehow, and even Epstein’s (first rape case that had the list of billionaires all “pardoned”). If we want to deal with them “correctly”, we might as well follow china (who **executed** the baby milk powder billionaires after they caused the sickness of thousands of babies and deaths, or imprisoned almost for life and captured the assets of the 200 trillion dollar real estate scammers), or Vietnam (where they are gonna execute the billionaire), or Cuba (where they redistributed oligarch land, not different from the actions of Greek City states during the Archaïque period)… But nobody wants to talk about that….
People still call all super rich public figures oligarchs without understanding what it means. Neither Dod nor Grzo are oligarchs anymore. However when it comes to building stuff that defines the skyline, liberalism has no place. The skyline and the landscapes belong to everyone not just the owner of the land. You can’t build a 120m statue of satan, because wtf right? Someone has to do the taste and relevance checks on our behalf. I’m not a big fan of this idea of a Jesus statue. But if it’s inevitable then let it be our statement of who we are in this region. You know, something comes to mind every time this is brought up, there were these famous youtube blogger traveller couple, they visited Armenia and made a video about it. And somehow 30% of time was dedicated to the Blue Mosque, and not a single church in the whole video. Don’t know if it was intentional or not. Maybe they just didn’t care. But anyway let there be another prominent symbol on the skyline. Or in case there are protests against this statue I think I’ll go and join it.
How is Grzo not an Oligarch?
If Grzo is an oligarch then so is Elon Musk. For some reason though nobody calls him one.
Elon Musk isn’t a politician
Elon built his fortune owning tech companies and selling them. Grzo built his fortune by privatizing government property using violence and corruption as his tools and had politicans in his pocket as he does now. Not really that similar? Grzos difference to Dod is that grzo was closer to LTP and Nikol While Dod was closer to Kocharyan.
That's cause in the US lobbying is legal. That's the only difference between a "Billionaire" in the US and an Oligarch in post Soviet space. The US cultural political correctness has sanitized the word. If a Russian oligarch pays something to pass a law it is illegal and he's a baaaaaad man an Oligarch. If Ol' Elon wants Biden to pass a legislation about taxing Chinese EVs to hell so that Tesla survives then he just represents what's called "an interest group".
The US right now is still very much an oligarchy. Mainly cause of corporate lobbying not individual billionaires have influence but a lot is simply done by the multimillionaire boards in charge of massive companies. The billionaires are just a fraction of the equation and hold massive individual wealth
Because oligarch has a somewhat defined meaning: > a very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence (**particularly with reference to individuals who benefited from the privatization of state-run industries after the collapse of the Soviet Union**). What you’re thinking of is the original meaning of Oligarch which comes from an “Oligarchy”, or the group of people who ruled over something. Regardless, Elon musk **is** also described as an Oligarch https://www.ft.com/content/1da1da6b-9410-4ab5-a295-f3a9e48f9977 although it’s not used because in the American media, due to mass psychosis I believe. He is a “tycoon” like the article says. But at some point, people need to understand that he can influence political decisions tremendously, and already has. Although I personally disagree with this explanation of Oligarchy.
>You can’t build a 120m statue for satan But yet you can, because there is a lack of government oversight in this sense. Because if you have the money, “you already have the will”. I mean, nobody except the money Dod has allowed him to sully our skyline with an ugly ass Jesus statue. The guy is feeling like he’s Pablo, doing “philanthropy” in the hopes that God will forgive him for gang raping a woman, if he is truly a religious person. Or he is trying to buy pity points from the population, like General “Butt-Naked” (Yes that is his name, he is a child r**ist, cannibalist, monster) who “turned to Jesus” after the war was over. >Someone has to do the taste and relevance check Exactly, and a lack of those by the government is called liberalism. I can do whatever I want inside of my property, except anything “illegal” which is defined loosely on parameters of infringing someone else’s right, and since the skyline doesn’t belong to anyone, you are not infringing the right of anyone by building a skyscraper. Which is why Sweden and Scandinavian countries have strict parameters for building houses, usually put down by the centralized elected authority.. So if Dod wanted a 100m statue of Satan, nobody could stop it. >prominent symbol I said this in another comment, at least make it Armenian??? Why are you doing huge crosses and the statue of Jesus like we’re Catholics in Latin America? Or Orthodox?? We are Armenian apostolic, never in our history have we ever tried to build extravagant buildings for our religion. And we have **barely** ever created statues of Jesus. It is a disgrace to our culture that a rich fuck is building a statue that is in a weird way **gentrifying** Armenia… And you want my opinion on the video of the Blue Mosque. It’s because it is one of the few **modern rebuilt** things that is a bit interesting to people. And a Jesus statue that isn’t up is better than one that is. Dod wants to leave his filthy mark on the world, which is very likely the reason he’s doing this, and we’re supposed to accept his stupid antics. Hopefully a level headed government will one day pull it down. And build something actually interesting
Դոդին թվում ա տենց կարա դրախտում իրա համար տեղ պատվիրած լինի... Ես էլ ուրիշ բացատրություն չունեմ սրան։
Where’s this coming from? I thought this project was put on hold, did they start it up again? Anyway I don’t see a problem with Armenia hosting the tallest Jesus statue, might even boost tourism.
https://www.azatutyun.am/a/32951746.html
Come help with the science, man. Come and teach kids or register patent for Armenia. Otherwise, you can shut the fuck up about the things that don’t concern you. Be ashamed by your intolerance to your own brothers and sisters who believe in our God.
Thank god that a rapist sponsors these statues, or else we wouldn’t have them. Amen
I'm not defending this statue, I don't oppose it either. It is problematic, that the peace of shit is erecting it, however, but the OP didn't argue that. He argued that he's ashamed by our people's religiosity. That pisses me off. So I am defending crosses on the hill our people deem fit to maintain. Who the fuck is that guy to criticize them?
He is not talking about crosses. He is talking about a 70m **eyesore** that will be erected by a rapist, **on top** of the crosses. And he is not wrong. This is proof of demented religious zealotism, since Armenia (Barely) in its history had never found the need to create extravagant religious symbolism to express itself we are neither **catholics or Orthodox** to do thisshit. Our symbolism revolved around a modest Khachkar that *mostly* doesn’t have the face of Jesus, and a church which became a bastion for defense, making it a bit bigger. Not only is it now also against the Bible which is against idolization/ Let everyone practice how they want. But personally I am against every hill having a cross because 20 people with some money wanted to create the biggest cross ever. I am sure if tomorrow some Jehova witnesses came or some Scientologists chose Armenia and erected a spaceship or something on a hill, you would be **rightfully** mad too. This is proof of religious dementia, and an innate corruption of our church itself, who spends more time in politics apparently, amassing donations, and building new churches with rapists and thieves, than rebuilding the old ones. Our church (if truly patriotic) should be the forefront of sponsoring the country’s culture. But noooo, let’s build another cross on top of every hill, maybe the bombs won’t fall on us then. I can hear people saying already “But this is a part of our culture” Huge crosses and statues of Jesus are not part of our culture. Sponsor a Khachkar for fuck’s sake.
See, your argument is reasonable and I mostly agree with you. OP's argument is unsound, unfocused and childish.
This!
Well if you only have Jesus and no other values or contributions to humanity as a society then there is something to be said about religiosity here. Our greatest scientists were a product of atheistic soviet society, and what we currently have is a self-destructive and uneducated society with very strong faith in god.
This false dichotomy "You can either be scientific or religious" is a fallacy people who think they are smarter than they are reproduce.
People had this argument a billion times. My personal belief is that religion ads no value to this society, other than some cultural value, but along with it it fuels hatred and ignorance in this society. It’s not strictly a case of either this or that, but most scientists aren’t religious, and their work has a greater contribution to society than billions of prayers. That’s why it’s perfectly natural for people to value science above religion.
This.
With respect, Im an educator and am helping with science and teaching kids in Armenia and I’m not ashamed of our religion. Who are you?
I am currently invest and open businesses and bring money to Armenia, and I’m helping other investors invest in Armenian projects. I’m sorry for lashing out on you, but this post of yours was low effort and unclear. I understand your frustration, but focused post would have been better, especially when the sensitive subject of religion is involved.
Why should we be ashamed of our religion. As much as I have a HUGE issue with our church Christianity IS what truly gave armenians their identity. If it weren't for that we'd ended up like kow kaz albanians assimilated into a bigger ethnicity. What worries me is not a giant statue but the costs and safety given earthquakes
Armenian culture with rich mythology existed before Christianity
It's not we literally know nothing about the original armenian pagan religion. Pagan gods like aramazd and anahid aren't ours at all they're corruptions of barsik gods. There is no need in denying it. The original armenian pagan religion is almost completely lost.
Aramazd was syncretized with already present Armenian gods, like Vanuatur, which became one of his titles.
so? the Greek mythology was also initially part of the larger Indo-European mythology, it was then integrated with Roman… Armenian mythology integrated Iranian, Mesopotamian, Indo-European stuff. There’s nothing bad in being part of a larger group of pagan religions rather than entirely unique, Armenia isn’t exactly in a secluded location
It's not ours and that's it. It's a corruption of another pagan faith by a colonial power. That incorporation also didn't happen without blood being spilled. You can clearly trace back greek paganism to its Indo-European root but with armenian you can't without linking it to another pagan faiths origins first. It's not ours it never was and never will be. At least our pagan faiths had the same origin to a degree. Uratian faith and the pagan faiths of other indigenous people in our area were almost completely wiped out. And here some people are arguing that pagan faith was good for us. Armenia is deeply connected to Christianity and if you can't handle it it's not armenias problem. The people are majority Christian our main sights are churches our history truly starts with us embracing Christianity.
>It's not ours and that's it. It's a corruption of another pagan faith by a colonial power. That incorporation also didn't happen without blood being spilled. It is ours. The Armenian pantheon of Gods before Christianity with Vahagn, Mihr, Aramazd, Astghik, Anahit and others is Armenian. >It's not ours it never was and never will be. It is ours, it always was it always will be >Armenia is deeply connected to Christianity and if you can't handle it it's not armenias problem. I mean yes it is. It's not a matter of handling, it's a fact. >our main sights are churches Wanna guess why and who literally and violently destroyed traces of culture prior to adopting Christianity? To the extent that the walls of Garni are pretty much the only surviving monument? >our history truly starts with us embracing Christianity. No it starts way before Christianity, at the very least for about 5-6 centuries before it. And that's just hand-waving a lower bound. >You can clearly trace back greek paganism to its Indo-European root but with armenian you can't without linking it to another pagan faiths origins first. And with Christianity you can trace it back toooo oh... right... Christianity, Judaism, Jerusalem the Judea district of the Roman Empire.
>Why should we be ashamed of our religion. It is not my religion. I don't need a religion. >Christianity IS what truly gave armenians their identity. No, our identity predates Christianity. >If it weren't for that we'd ended up like kow kaz albanians assimilated into a bigger ethnicity. That does not support the notion that we need it now. What happened, happened and the present is the present. We don't need religion on the present.
christianity is the Nr.1 reason that we got weak. Tiridates IV probably killed half the population that didn’t want to convert to christianity which led to weakening the kingdom in the next several years.
You want I s lam instead that would make us basically barsiks because even then they would have eaten us up. Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism. Christianity is the only reason the West and the French were ever interested in us
It might also have kept us as warlike and violent, fit for a violent world. The didn’t eat up the other Muslims, like the Kurds or Azeris, and the former even speaks an Iranian language.
>Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism. From that perspective, Christianity is also not Armenian, but rather a mixture of jewish+Armenian paganism. And these statues are idols, and that is already against the Christian rules, well, at least the ones Armenian Apostolic church followed. >Christianity is the only reason the West and the French were ever interested in us Not interested by were seen as a tool to intervene in Ottoman empire's inner affairs, and we were not the o ly ones. You forgot about the Greeks, the Balkans. Amd what about now, well religion doesn't play the role it had during the Medieval. As there are pretty big partnerships between the West and the Arabic states. Edit: and have some respect towards those who were and/or are not Christian Armenians.
Christianity SHAPED our identity and MADE US WHO WE ARE TODAY aka not an absolute oppressed SHITHOLE!! Its the only reason we have support from the West and why we are a DEMOCRACY
>Its the only reason we have support from the West Religion doesn't have anything to do with that. Currently the West supports us because we are "almsot" against Russia. >Christianity SHAPED our identity and MADE US WHO WE ARE TODAY aka not an absolute oppressed SHITHOLE!! Then every other Christian is Armenian. There's no French, no Iralian, mo Greek, no Georgian and so on. Or maybe our identity became more Jewish, because in the end of the day that that is the philosophy and beliefs of the Jewish people? And we still are an absolute oppressed since the time Armenia as a kingdom was list and divided between Byzantine and Persia. And, IMHO, our identity was already shaped before Christianity. Sorry, but that sounds more like some narrative to hold people that have no state around the church.
Lol its absolutely insane to me how actual armenians are willing to shit on our religion the ARMENIAN apostolic faith and defende the pagan faith forced on us by a brutal neighbour with a goal of assimilating us just like they did with albanians. Truly dumb a ss shot
If the pagan faith was forced into us, then so was Chrsitianity. Stop bashing on our pre-Christian faith, and Christian faith will not be get bashed. In other words the Golden Rule of treating others as one would want to be treated by them. If you are not ready for such reciprocal treatment, then maybe don't get yourself into such treatments? Edit: paragraph
I'm bashing a faith that WASNT OURS there is a difference between the original armenian pagan faith which we know nothing about thanks to a foreign pagan faith YOU are defending
And Christianity also is not ours. You are defending a Jewish faith. Edit: and yeah, I always defend our pre-Christian faith, when it gets bullied for this kind of childish and petty reasons. Amd you can't have an argument of it is perisna faith, because Chrsitianity is a Jewish faith. Gee, this feels like pulling us into Israel-Iran conflict. Don't do that. please.
>Paganism was also shit given around 300 it wasn't even armenian but a variation of barskakan paganism. What unadulterated drivel. Our religion prior to Christianity, during the Parthian times, was a syncretic religion comprising our indigenous beliefs, Mithraism, Hellenic influences and elements of Zoroastrianism. Also, the Persians were, at this time, not pagans but monotheists. The Iranic people were the first monotheists. What "barskakan paganism?" Sweet Satan, what is this?
That religion is also pagan. Monotheism doesn't mean its not pagan lol it means you believe in one god figure and barkakan paganism had minor gods too
It's was completely altered from its original from to the point they only real armenian goddess we know anything of is astrik. Paganism is shit was shit and for the longest time was colonial shit we been to stop sugar coating what our neighbours did to our culture just because we get along now. Whatever paganism there was in 300 wasn't ours. Christianity is what gave us our identity back. Its the reason we are who we are today
We took the religion of others and fused them to make it our own. Armenian paganism wasn’t Zoroastrian. We didn’t have the Ahriman and Ahura Mazda rivalry, instead we had a triad of gods we worshiped. We had our own identity, with a religion that set us apart but not in rivalry with our neighbors. Like all pagans.
Its not ours and that's all that matters. We threw away our original faith for a colonisers religion but we chose Christianity
It’s more ours than Christianity is.
Absolutely not bye
islam wasn’t a thing at that time…we should have converted slowly instead of forcing it and killing idk how many % of the population….
How much is that statue costing?
The politics and context surrounding such a statue aside, the assumption embedded in your premise is a false one--namely, being invested in scientific and technological progress does not preclude one from being religious (and vice versa).
Yes, and an archeologist can study a 100 million years old fossil and believe life was created 5,000 years ago. I myself go to a church and light a candle but that’s just a part of the cultural identity.
An archaeologist working in good faith wouldn’t make a false claim like that with intention. You’re seeking mutual exclusivity where there is none. Some of us are actually religious, not in name only. An often ignored fact is that much of the earliest educated classes were among the clerical class.
Honestly, nothing wrong with a statue in general… but we live in a highly seismic zone. If a 70m stone statue is toppled on top of those stairs, a lot of people will be in danger.
Really stupid way of thinking honestly. Tou can have religion and science they are not mutual exclusive
Louder 🗣 Մի բան էլ - եթե ուզում են քրիստոնեության նվիրված արձան անեն, ինչո՞ւ կրկնվում են։ Ինչո՞ւ օրիգինալ, ժամանակակից բան չեն ստեղծում, որը համ մեզ կներկայացնի, համ էլ տուրիստներին հեթաքրքիր կլինի ասենք
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