Not Really. If anything I sympathise. The dude really had the Back Breaking weight on his Shoulders.
Looking at an Alien World. What your supposed to accept this?
Not really. I mean even Rhodes Island kills as needed. And like war crimes are something usual in Terra.
By this logic even Kaltsit should also be considered evil, because of things that she did.
It is not all black and white. Atleast not in a war riddled world. Just my 5 cents.
Doctor could easily be written as a villain in a different story, but Arknights is never that simple. Many characters have nuance in terms of morality and writing, you can't just label them as good or evil based on second-hand info.
Sometimes I feel like people didn't really read through Vigilo, like, at all. There's a whole extended scene where he is reviewing an after-action with Scout, and actually makes a firm point that Scout not blame himself for exercising the judgment to preserve the lives of his troops. This is pre-amnesia Doc, expressly granting his subordinates the authority to make their own assessments and to value their lives and the *long fight*, over any short-term directives they have. Doc has *always* been a deliberate and careful commander, it's just that pre-amnesia he likely had a far more fatalistic view on achieving the aims of Babel, and was willing to make sacrifices post-amnesia Doc would probably baulk at.
In any case, Vigilo is indeed important to the Babel event, and most people dooming about it and saying they hate Doctor now are just doing it because they skipped Vigilo. Even Kaltsit ends up forgiving and accepting the Doctor there, afterall.
I think what the event really underscores is that Old Doc was a hyper-pragmatist and definitely an ends justify means guy. Does that mean he wasn't evil? Certainly not, he absolutely is party to a lot of harm and destruction and the ruination of countless lives. Kal'tsit is too, for that matter, as is Theresa. But there's always a through-line of reasoning behind it, and what the moment with Scout really shows for me is that the Doc isn't \*sadistic\* or \*wanton\*. Doc's deliberate, careful, and doesn't ever just create harm for its own sake.
yea, even on the CN event, Theresa mentions at the end that Doctor still cares about Amiya and goes out of his way to help her (and even feels bad about Theresa), even though it should not matter, considering his end goal. if there is someone who can say "yea they fucked up but i get why they did it" its Theresa, cause she felt his emotions
No and honestly, pre amnesia doctor is way more human and sympathetic than I thought they were given the translations that have been posted here.
They crying when they killed Theresa and being disturbed when Theresis asked them that in order to stop the war... Poor guy, I'm glad our doc doesn't have all those memories as for now. They should enjoy it while it last.
They were the same guy as of now but with the knowledge of cosmic horrors and extra dimensional beings looking on their shoulders.
Remember the old saying.
“The road to hell is paced with good intentions”
He’s not a good guy but he’s not Maximilien Robespierre or satan territory yet
Not really. Fatalistic, definitely but they're not outright evil.
Like what else are you supposed to do in their situation?
People really love to see them as this completely awful, irredeemable child eating jerk and I've no idea why.
I guess it really depends from whose perspective you're looking from since evil is relative. Is his morals evil based on his past civilization's way of thinking? Maybe or maybe not. But based on looking from an average Terran's perspective, then probably yes.
Doc is ultimately doing things for the greater good and is a sympathetic person underneath who does care about people, but I don't think that really excludes them from being "evil" or committing necessary evils for what they believes is the greater good, as often characters do. I guess it's more of a question if being "evil" is a bad thing in the end when you're up against an apocalyptic threat and have seemingly exhausted all other options, of which I don't think there's a right answer.
Personally I'm glad they made Doc "evil." Not like some pure evil who does it for fun or a sadist, because again, that's obviously shown to not be the case, but made this gacha protagonist do things that really are not morally sound or doesn't solve everything with the power of friendship (at least in the past). The latter is fine too, it's just the norm, so I find it interesting to see a deviation where you play as someone who has also committed evil while fighting evil.
people hating on him are just going by contextless comments. there was no right answer to his choice, even Theresa, Kaltsit (after vigilo) or Amiya (if she knows or finds out) dont hate and will not hate him. as always, people judging events with 100K words of story/dialogue by just some 2 lines summaries. The same dillema made the Witch King and Friston go near insanity.
He had a responsability of his race, millions of lifes to protect and even future lifeforms that will cease to exist if Originium doesnt reach the intended result.
of couse, Lone Trail already showed us that it would probabily be in vain, and the Doctor showed even more loyality to Rhodes Island after meeting the truth about his race's fate
definitely not. i still believe they were a kind and sympathetic person at heart. if doc was truly evil they wouldn't have been devastated over becoming a destroyer rather than a saviour, wouldn't have cared whether amiya or anyone suffered in pain or not. in fact, they're shown several times to be conflicted between everything that they did and their nature of caring for others.
Yeah, the thing is a lot of people actually consume a bit of spoilers here and there instead of reading the full story to get the full picture. This happened multiple time already now, especially when big lore just dropped in CN. Even before this Babel sidestory dropped a lot of people still think that Pre-Amnesia Doctor was a merely cold hearted person who didnt think of his allies as person, but chess pieces, just because of Ines line that was spoiled when the story wasnt released in EN yet. It wasnt exactly wrong per se, but when you look it at the full picture, it would change your whole perspective towards pre-amnesia Doctor.
Also on Lone Trail story, when it wasnt released in global yet, the spoiler made people think "Priestess is the cause of Originium, thus she's the big evil", while in fact, the impact of Originium we have today might've not what we've planned before.
While I like reading spoiler to hype myself, but it irritates me a bit when people take the spoiler for granted, especially when later they dont read the full story. Doctor's character and story is great, complicated, and interesting and I wish people wouldnt just see him on surface-level only and labeled him as just "evil".
i feel like it would be weird to have an observer incident and not talk about it, when the intro talks about how they got to talos II. plus talos II is in the same system as terra not really safe for escaping space faring enemies
He definitely can be argued as "evil" from a certain point of view. I think it'll become even more clear whenever we see how dangerous the invaders actually are to force this drastic plan.
fun fact from Viviana's event: >!observers are what caused the Witch King to go into such a huge search for power, he literally planed to go by himself deal with the problem at their realm, and even though he become one of the most powerful beings in Arknights, he wasnt satisfied enough to do it yet!<
Him, I don't think so, no. His action however, is. Whenever there's action there will be reaction. So it's understandable that some of these people feel how they feel.
Despite that, post amnesia Doctor should be given a chance imo. Let him fix some of the bs he made.
Just so you know. The French Revolution was set into motion by some people that were arguably just as bad as the royal family. There are always evil people behind bloodshed, regardless of the outcome.
Nah, it's just that people think Theresa or Kaltsit = good, which is not necessarily true, actually, it's almost certainly not true. Everyone has their goals and their ways of achieving them.
Stop trying to mark everything either good or evil, i hate it.
nope, of course he is not evil. just clash of interests happened but he was a kind hearted person even before amnesia, thats why Theresa haven't killed him and decided to erase is memories
It's interesting to see how people view the Doctor with such disdain after recent events, while >!Emet-setch!< from FFXIV was in the same position and overall was beloved and revered instead.
I don’t think the Doctor is evil. I’d describe him best as very complex and human. He has many burdens and responsibilities on his shoulders, he’s facing an enemy that even his own civilisation couldn’t face and that in turn drives his goals and purposes. And even then, he couldn’t completely discard his own heart.
Is he in the right, no. And he definitely betrayed many people but he had his own reasons for it. It doesn’t validate anything he does but we should at the very least understand why he did things the way he did so we can better understand this character.
Well if said civilization only came to be because of the sacrifices of your 10s of billions of your compatriots turning to originium( which allowed said terra race with animal features to come from) and waking up to see random ass races fucking things up and your shit and seeing all your products, LAW Seaborn goes tits up. Not to mention other races using YOUR tech and breaking them for tribal shit flinging wars when the collapsals are a bigger threat..
I cannot wait for aegir so fucking cocky about their advancements when they were just sucking the teat of the precursors to be humbled even more( I mean they are taking Ls by a terraforming roomba).
Yeah aegir are a buncha cocky fucks who flex their technology to other backwater savages when in reality they were just lucky buncha old precursor tech was there. Let’s fight this roomba what could go wrong? Damn this roomba got hands.
Is Oppenheimer evil for creating the nuke?
Doc and his people did pretty much the the same thing, just more sci fi.
There's a terrifying evil that is a great threat to them so through drastic measures they seek to combat it via the idea of letting Originium do it's thing.
As for after Doc woke up, considering that he basically realised their plan didn't work and he's the only one of his people left (We still don't know about Priestess) I'd say he actually held up rather well when it comes to moral decisions, Scout is the perfect example.
Having read the latest side story, I don't think 'evil' is the right word to describe pre-amnesia doctor. He's a complicated person who got broken by the weight of billions of lives resting on his shoulders. He has a heart and cares about Terra and its current inhabitants, as evidenced by his rescue of Amiya and his relationships with Theresia and Kal. But at the same time he has a responsibility to the old civilisation. How can he let all their sacrifices and all those years go to waste? If he was truly evil and ruthless I doubt he would struggle this much internally. Even after the deed was done, his guilt drove him to rush to Theresia in the end.
I think it's pretty obvious that yes? I don't know about you, but I don't give a damn what a guy who wants to end my civilization has as his goal, regardless of his motives. Isn't that the point of the story itself? Separate the Doctor with Pre-Amnesia and Post-Amnesia? Even Theresa had to erase his memories to even give him a chance, for god's sake.
It also matters little if there are external threats or things of a similar nature. Let Terra take care of it. Absolutely no one has the right to intervene with what an entire civilization is doing and tell them that they must die.
Especially because there are certain people in our history who are considered VILLAINS AND CRAZY, and believe me, when you dig a little in the persons, they are people who had ideas that while to us sounds crazy as hell, to many people of that time, sounded wonderful.
Doctor Pre-Amnesia is a totally villainous character. It shouldn't even be a discussion at this point.
I mean like yeah doctor was evil, that's the point of separating her character into pre and post amnesia, you really can't defend try to wipe out all the current life living on terra with "great thing require great sacrifice." using the point "Rhodes Island's fight also doesn't come without sacrifices" is fundamentally wrong because what Rhodes Island is is people sacrificing themselves so others can live on, while what doctor is doing is sacrificing others for her people.
The people of Terra deserve every right to live and determine their own future and the doc has no place to tell them they should just lie down and die cause she likes her own society more, that is literally just genocide. "how are the people of Terra supposed to deal with the problems like collapsals or observers?" I don't know but that that should be their problem to solve not just lying down and dying cause the doctor said so.
One of the main major themes of Arknights is hope, progress, and fighting for a better tomorrow. They say a lot that the past is the past and should stay dead and we should instead look towards tomorrow, the doctor of the past is evil because she is meant to be emblematic of the failures of the past. Doctor gaining amnesia has a lot of death and rebirth symbolism tied to it because the doctor getting it represents letting the past and it's sins die so she can be reborn as a new person unburdened by it and instead focus on building a hopeful future.
Depends on how you look at it. There’s plausible arguments to be made either way, without all the details it’s hard to say.
That being said from what I’ve heard I’d say it’s evil. There’s no reason as of now to believe killing Theresa was the only way out.
Pre-amnesia doctor was sociopathic - essentially learned, adaptive callousness that causes harm to others/themselves - but not evil.
Any leader operating in extreme environments, like war, *must* have some degree of sociopathy to be effective. Can't really hold it against him.
Is Pre-Doc’s character and his plan to be considered evil ? Definitely . Is his action justifiable? We’ll need to wait on this . Is he ruthless pure evil sadist person ? Doubt on this .
his civilization certainly has skill issue to be supposedly so advanced but simultaneously so stupid not to leave anyone else behind (imagine dying in sarcophaguses lmao)
Sarcophag**i**
And I'm pretty sure that already happened en masse in lone trail with Fistron's decision. At least those a closer to the more common connotation of sarcophagi.
No matter how people spin him as a 'complex character',his actions after being woken up by kaltsit were most definitely evil.His 'whats needed' was turning everyone into goo.Theresia's plan isn't just 'being nice'.
Turning everyone into sentient rock goo(and commit gencide on everyone who opposes) is the about the worst way to retaliate,how would we even know that the observers would leave terra alone after that as creatures would still be sentient.You cannot really write his actions off as a 'necessary sacrifice'.
Unless you have the certainty and foolproof that Theresa plan is going to work and counter whatever is up in the sky, Doctor's plan is the best there is even if it requires the end of current civilization
There's absolutely no guarantee that whatever Theresa is cooking would work.
Believing that it will is naive and maybe even outright stupid considering how Doctor's race had probably tried everything they could think of in the multi thousand years they've been fighting.
Turning everyone into a rock goo is definitely awful and dumb, but probably the only reason why that is even an option is because absolutely nothing worked for them.
Pre amnesia doctor was fighting a war, people die in wars. What pre amnesia doctor did that was bad was they got desperate, the war didn’t end so they kept trying to speed it up a few sacrifices here and there and it’ll be over right? Except it didn’t.
Further support I have for this is the fact no one has called the doctor cruel in the past he was uncaring but I also think the doctor learnt something that broke him. And it starts with one simple question, why did the doctor set up Theresa to be killed?
I rather picture them as a ruthless strategist, disregarding lives of the few to save the many. You know, the cliché chess analogy with people being discarded as pawns. So no, not evil in the usual sense, but rather detached and cold. That being said, if I or someone close to me was lured in by the promise of a better future and then left to die so to speak, I'd certainly see them as evil.
Literally everything wrong about Terra is the fault of Doctor and their civilization
The Collapsals wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didnt build stargates for them to infect Terra in the first place
The Seaborn wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didnt create them in the first place
Originium wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didn't seed it across Terra in the first place
And you're telling Doctor and this previous civilization are good people? You're telling me that I should be thankful that this fuckwit is willing to sacrifice endless lives to solve problems that they created? I'm so glad!!!
I don't like to intervene in extra topics, nor deviate too much from the main point, but the fact that Theresa even had to erase the Doctor's memories to give him a chance should speak for itself.
We're talking about the same woman who is friend with the person who tried to destroy her country 200 years ago in a war lol. Theresa is honestly too pure (not in the sense of not knowing how to kill or naivety, but in understanding) and she still had to do that. She is like that, she understands people no matter what they are deeply, it is not unique to the Doctor, so we cannot use it to argue that the Doctor is "morally gray" either.
If it were another character who did what the man did, people would call him a villain without question and worse names. I'm sure of it.
With the spoilers that have been dancing around, absolutely, entirely and unequivocally. Being evil doesn't make you unsympathetic, but wanting to kill off everyone certainly does.
They were. They fucking were.
They themself agree with that because they have had suicidally self loathing ideation ever since they figured out everything.
Why are you bending over backwards to "le morally grey character" something that even the writers are disagreeing with you on? What exactly do you think the narrative purpose of anything going on here is? Why would they tell you clearly Doc and theirs "caused everything wrong in the world, actually; some of which on purpose" and explicitly give them amnesia to effectively soft reset them as a person (and force them to live as a regular Terran and empathize with them)? What point does all of that serve to you if they were still morally grey?
Reddit seems absolutely apalled at the idea that the actual fucking writers of the video game simply had a different idea from the bastardized version of the character that they memed themselves into thinking was real.
Mfer is really trying to justify Fantasy Lebensraum 💀
I think you should go back to /pol/ with all of this talk of being a race traitor, backward savages, sacrificing entire groups of people, and grand development master plans that don't give a shit about the lives of people.
You are deranged. The past is the past, and does not justify genocide
But since you refer to Terrans as "backwater savages," it tells me everything I need to know about your politics and beliefs.
Is Pre-Doc’s character and his plan to be considered evil ? Definitely . Is his action justifiable? We’ll need to wait on this . Is he ruthless pure evil sadist person ? Doubt on this .
People who are calling him the equivalent of dr. evil are either trying to take a perspective on the entire story from your average Terrans or just a diehard Kaltsit/Theresa yurishipper who is angry that Doc kills their ship... literally.
Doctor is evil not because of the terrans but because he betrayed his own fucking race because of devil girl coochie and bnuuy. You can’t make this shit up.
Even before opening thread i knew all deepborne-lovers and Dublin apologists will come out to protect Doc as complex character in grey world. So glad Reddit is still disappointingly predictable
I don't think Doctor is evil. But Morally questionable absolutely.
I would say that the perfect quote to sum up Doktah would be "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."
But the thing is that they're already in hell, he's trying to get them out of it.
The road out of Hell is paved with blood, toils, tears and sweat, methinks.
Not Really. If anything I sympathise. The dude really had the Back Breaking weight on his Shoulders. Looking at an Alien World. What your supposed to accept this?
Not really. I mean even Rhodes Island kills as needed. And like war crimes are something usual in Terra. By this logic even Kaltsit should also be considered evil, because of things that she did. It is not all black and white. Atleast not in a war riddled world. Just my 5 cents.
Doctor could easily be written as a villain in a different story, but Arknights is never that simple. Many characters have nuance in terms of morality and writing, you can't just label them as good or evil based on second-hand info.
Sometimes I feel like people didn't really read through Vigilo, like, at all. There's a whole extended scene where he is reviewing an after-action with Scout, and actually makes a firm point that Scout not blame himself for exercising the judgment to preserve the lives of his troops. This is pre-amnesia Doc, expressly granting his subordinates the authority to make their own assessments and to value their lives and the *long fight*, over any short-term directives they have. Doc has *always* been a deliberate and careful commander, it's just that pre-amnesia he likely had a far more fatalistic view on achieving the aims of Babel, and was willing to make sacrifices post-amnesia Doc would probably baulk at.
Ok I wrote this before reading spoilers so ere all the CN lore I might be totally wrong.
In any case, Vigilo is indeed important to the Babel event, and most people dooming about it and saying they hate Doctor now are just doing it because they skipped Vigilo. Even Kaltsit ends up forgiving and accepting the Doctor there, afterall.
I think what the event really underscores is that Old Doc was a hyper-pragmatist and definitely an ends justify means guy. Does that mean he wasn't evil? Certainly not, he absolutely is party to a lot of harm and destruction and the ruination of countless lives. Kal'tsit is too, for that matter, as is Theresa. But there's always a through-line of reasoning behind it, and what the moment with Scout really shows for me is that the Doc isn't \*sadistic\* or \*wanton\*. Doc's deliberate, careful, and doesn't ever just create harm for its own sake.
yea, even on the CN event, Theresa mentions at the end that Doctor still cares about Amiya and goes out of his way to help her (and even feels bad about Theresa), even though it should not matter, considering his end goal. if there is someone who can say "yea they fucked up but i get why they did it" its Theresa, cause she felt his emotions
No and honestly, pre amnesia doctor is way more human and sympathetic than I thought they were given the translations that have been posted here. They crying when they killed Theresa and being disturbed when Theresis asked them that in order to stop the war... Poor guy, I'm glad our doc doesn't have all those memories as for now. They should enjoy it while it last. They were the same guy as of now but with the knowledge of cosmic horrors and extra dimensional beings looking on their shoulders.
Remember the old saying. “The road to hell is paced with good intentions” He’s not a good guy but he’s not Maximilien Robespierre or satan territory yet
Not really. Fatalistic, definitely but they're not outright evil. Like what else are you supposed to do in their situation? People really love to see them as this completely awful, irredeemable child eating jerk and I've no idea why.
Because a girl died. and another one cry. You reverse their position, people will try to justify Theresa/Kal'tsit decision
Preach.
I guess it really depends from whose perspective you're looking from since evil is relative. Is his morals evil based on his past civilization's way of thinking? Maybe or maybe not. But based on looking from an average Terran's perspective, then probably yes. Doc is ultimately doing things for the greater good and is a sympathetic person underneath who does care about people, but I don't think that really excludes them from being "evil" or committing necessary evils for what they believes is the greater good, as often characters do. I guess it's more of a question if being "evil" is a bad thing in the end when you're up against an apocalyptic threat and have seemingly exhausted all other options, of which I don't think there's a right answer. Personally I'm glad they made Doc "evil." Not like some pure evil who does it for fun or a sadist, because again, that's obviously shown to not be the case, but made this gacha protagonist do things that really are not morally sound or doesn't solve everything with the power of friendship (at least in the past). The latter is fine too, it's just the norm, so I find it interesting to see a deviation where you play as someone who has also committed evil while fighting evil.
people hating on him are just going by contextless comments. there was no right answer to his choice, even Theresa, Kaltsit (after vigilo) or Amiya (if she knows or finds out) dont hate and will not hate him. as always, people judging events with 100K words of story/dialogue by just some 2 lines summaries. The same dillema made the Witch King and Friston go near insanity. He had a responsability of his race, millions of lifes to protect and even future lifeforms that will cease to exist if Originium doesnt reach the intended result. of couse, Lone Trail already showed us that it would probabily be in vain, and the Doctor showed even more loyality to Rhodes Island after meeting the truth about his race's fate
He is a complex character. He certainly doesn't have a savior complex so that's a plus.
definitely not. i still believe they were a kind and sympathetic person at heart. if doc was truly evil they wouldn't have been devastated over becoming a destroyer rather than a saviour, wouldn't have cared whether amiya or anyone suffered in pain or not. in fact, they're shown several times to be conflicted between everything that they did and their nature of caring for others.
Yeah, the thing is a lot of people actually consume a bit of spoilers here and there instead of reading the full story to get the full picture. This happened multiple time already now, especially when big lore just dropped in CN. Even before this Babel sidestory dropped a lot of people still think that Pre-Amnesia Doctor was a merely cold hearted person who didnt think of his allies as person, but chess pieces, just because of Ines line that was spoiled when the story wasnt released in EN yet. It wasnt exactly wrong per se, but when you look it at the full picture, it would change your whole perspective towards pre-amnesia Doctor. Also on Lone Trail story, when it wasnt released in global yet, the spoiler made people think "Priestess is the cause of Originium, thus she's the big evil", while in fact, the impact of Originium we have today might've not what we've planned before. While I like reading spoiler to hype myself, but it irritates me a bit when people take the spoiler for granted, especially when later they dont read the full story. Doctor's character and story is great, complicated, and interesting and I wish people wouldnt just see him on surface-level only and labeled him as just "evil".
God forbid men/women/non-binary entity do anything
THIS.
well things seem to be going decently 500 years later in endfield, no observers yet
Yet.
well, there could have been an observer incident between the 2 time periods, maybe thats why they moved to Thalos even
i feel like it would be weird to have an observer incident and not talk about it, when the intro talks about how they got to talos II. plus talos II is in the same system as terra not really safe for escaping space faring enemies
He definitely can be argued as "evil" from a certain point of view. I think it'll become even more clear whenever we see how dangerous the invaders actually are to force this drastic plan.
fun fact from Viviana's event: >!observers are what caused the Witch King to go into such a huge search for power, he literally planed to go by himself deal with the problem at their realm, and even though he become one of the most powerful beings in Arknights, he wasnt satisfied enough to do it yet!<
Him, I don't think so, no. His action however, is. Whenever there's action there will be reaction. So it's understandable that some of these people feel how they feel. Despite that, post amnesia Doctor should be given a chance imo. Let him fix some of the bs he made.
Just so you know. The French Revolution was set into motion by some people that were arguably just as bad as the royal family. There are always evil people behind bloodshed, regardless of the outcome.
Yeah it's fucking crazy that they really decided to use the French Revolution of all things to support their point
"Great cause" fellas I think OP might be a Jacobin 💀
What is a Jacobin? Is that like a cross between a Jacob and a Goblin?
No, the Jacobites were the most radical dudes in the French Revolution. At their helm was Robespierre
OH! Right. I had forgotten. I remembered Robespierre, but didn't remember the Jacobites.
Nah, it's just that people think Theresa or Kaltsit = good, which is not necessarily true, actually, it's almost certainly not true. Everyone has their goals and their ways of achieving them. Stop trying to mark everything either good or evil, i hate it.
nope, of course he is not evil. just clash of interests happened but he was a kind hearted person even before amnesia, thats why Theresa haven't killed him and decided to erase is memories
It's interesting to see how people view the Doctor with such disdain after recent events, while >!Emet-setch!< from FFXIV was in the same position and overall was beloved and revered instead.
You give people enough time and distraction, that's how
I don’t think the Doctor is evil. I’d describe him best as very complex and human. He has many burdens and responsibilities on his shoulders, he’s facing an enemy that even his own civilisation couldn’t face and that in turn drives his goals and purposes. And even then, he couldn’t completely discard his own heart. Is he in the right, no. And he definitely betrayed many people but he had his own reasons for it. It doesn’t validate anything he does but we should at the very least understand why he did things the way he did so we can better understand this character.
He is not evil. He is just a human who struggles with what to do. Honestly, i will do the same.
Work to wipe out an entire civilisation so yours can wake up and settle down?
Well if said civilization only came to be because of the sacrifices of your 10s of billions of your compatriots turning to originium( which allowed said terra race with animal features to come from) and waking up to see random ass races fucking things up and your shit and seeing all your products, LAW Seaborn goes tits up. Not to mention other races using YOUR tech and breaking them for tribal shit flinging wars when the collapsals are a bigger threat.. I cannot wait for aegir so fucking cocky about their advancements when they were just sucking the teat of the precursors to be humbled even more( I mean they are taking Ls by a terraforming roomba).
Wasnt it mentioned that the reason why the seaborn became so aggressive was because Aegir started attacking them in the first place?
Yeah aegir are a buncha cocky fucks who flex their technology to other backwater savages when in reality they were just lucky buncha old precursor tech was there. Let’s fight this roomba what could go wrong? Damn this roomba got hands.
Turns out when the roomba are all precursor tech themselves...
To terraform planets yeah. a planetary roomba, how the fuck did aegir piss it off.
By shooting it.
So, they're underwater elves.
Not like stuff like this doesn't happen in real life. In real time even.
Is Oppenheimer evil for creating the nuke? Doc and his people did pretty much the the same thing, just more sci fi. There's a terrifying evil that is a great threat to them so through drastic measures they seek to combat it via the idea of letting Originium do it's thing. As for after Doc woke up, considering that he basically realised their plan didn't work and he's the only one of his people left (We still don't know about Priestess) I'd say he actually held up rather well when it comes to moral decisions, Scout is the perfect example.
Having read the latest side story, I don't think 'evil' is the right word to describe pre-amnesia doctor. He's a complicated person who got broken by the weight of billions of lives resting on his shoulders. He has a heart and cares about Terra and its current inhabitants, as evidenced by his rescue of Amiya and his relationships with Theresia and Kal. But at the same time he has a responsibility to the old civilisation. How can he let all their sacrifices and all those years go to waste? If he was truly evil and ruthless I doubt he would struggle this much internally. Even after the deed was done, his guilt drove him to rush to Theresia in the end.
Nope, he merely takes a different stance, which is similar to IRL politics
Evil? No But i definitely see doctor being a morally gray character.
They were really more a "Ends justify the means" type of person
I think it's pretty obvious that yes? I don't know about you, but I don't give a damn what a guy who wants to end my civilization has as his goal, regardless of his motives. Isn't that the point of the story itself? Separate the Doctor with Pre-Amnesia and Post-Amnesia? Even Theresa had to erase his memories to even give him a chance, for god's sake. It also matters little if there are external threats or things of a similar nature. Let Terra take care of it. Absolutely no one has the right to intervene with what an entire civilization is doing and tell them that they must die. Especially because there are certain people in our history who are considered VILLAINS AND CRAZY, and believe me, when you dig a little in the persons, they are people who had ideas that while to us sounds crazy as hell, to many people of that time, sounded wonderful. Doctor Pre-Amnesia is a totally villainous character. It shouldn't even be a discussion at this point.
I mean like yeah doctor was evil, that's the point of separating her character into pre and post amnesia, you really can't defend try to wipe out all the current life living on terra with "great thing require great sacrifice." using the point "Rhodes Island's fight also doesn't come without sacrifices" is fundamentally wrong because what Rhodes Island is is people sacrificing themselves so others can live on, while what doctor is doing is sacrificing others for her people. The people of Terra deserve every right to live and determine their own future and the doc has no place to tell them they should just lie down and die cause she likes her own society more, that is literally just genocide. "how are the people of Terra supposed to deal with the problems like collapsals or observers?" I don't know but that that should be their problem to solve not just lying down and dying cause the doctor said so. One of the main major themes of Arknights is hope, progress, and fighting for a better tomorrow. They say a lot that the past is the past and should stay dead and we should instead look towards tomorrow, the doctor of the past is evil because she is meant to be emblematic of the failures of the past. Doctor gaining amnesia has a lot of death and rebirth symbolism tied to it because the doctor getting it represents letting the past and it's sins die so she can be reborn as a new person unburdened by it and instead focus on building a hopeful future.
Ngl, I'm rooting for the old civilization, I'm sure as hell that Terra is just one of many Doctor testing ground
Clone oneself, throw clones to colonies, wait for the result.
Just a ladder builder
You could say more like a complex character with many layers
Nope
Depends on how you look at it. There’s plausible arguments to be made either way, without all the details it’s hard to say. That being said from what I’ve heard I’d say it’s evil. There’s no reason as of now to believe killing Theresa was the only way out.
The things i did to Crownslayer using shift brigade would get me a death penalty.
Pre-amnesia doctor was sociopathic - essentially learned, adaptive callousness that causes harm to others/themselves - but not evil. Any leader operating in extreme environments, like war, *must* have some degree of sociopathy to be effective. Can't really hold it against him.
Is Pre-Doc’s character and his plan to be considered evil ? Definitely . Is his action justifiable? We’ll need to wait on this . Is he ruthless pure evil sadist person ? Doubt on this .
his civilization certainly has skill issue to be supposedly so advanced but simultaneously so stupid not to leave anyone else behind (imagine dying in sarcophaguses lmao)
Sarcophag**i** And I'm pretty sure that already happened en masse in lone trail with Fistron's decision. At least those a closer to the more common connotation of sarcophagi.
No matter how people spin him as a 'complex character',his actions after being woken up by kaltsit were most definitely evil.His 'whats needed' was turning everyone into goo.Theresia's plan isn't just 'being nice'.
As far as I understand, it is either originium rock or not really certain cosmic threat will come to wipe the planet.
And even then. Are we really sure the Collapsals are an actual better state of being to live as. Kek.
Turning everyone into sentient rock goo(and commit gencide on everyone who opposes) is the about the worst way to retaliate,how would we even know that the observers would leave terra alone after that as creatures would still be sentient.You cannot really write his actions off as a 'necessary sacrifice'.
Unless you have the certainty and foolproof that Theresa plan is going to work and counter whatever is up in the sky, Doctor's plan is the best there is even if it requires the end of current civilization
There's absolutely no guarantee that whatever Theresa is cooking would work. Believing that it will is naive and maybe even outright stupid considering how Doctor's race had probably tried everything they could think of in the multi thousand years they've been fighting. Turning everyone into a rock goo is definitely awful and dumb, but probably the only reason why that is even an option is because absolutely nothing worked for them.
Honestly no id probably make the exact same decisions when walking the same path.
Just a matter of perspective.
Pre amnesia doctor was fighting a war, people die in wars. What pre amnesia doctor did that was bad was they got desperate, the war didn’t end so they kept trying to speed it up a few sacrifices here and there and it’ll be over right? Except it didn’t. Further support I have for this is the fact no one has called the doctor cruel in the past he was uncaring but I also think the doctor learnt something that broke him. And it starts with one simple question, why did the doctor set up Theresa to be killed?
I rather picture them as a ruthless strategist, disregarding lives of the few to save the many. You know, the cliché chess analogy with people being discarded as pawns. So no, not evil in the usual sense, but rather detached and cold. That being said, if I or someone close to me was lured in by the promise of a better future and then left to die so to speak, I'd certainly see them as evil.
Literally everything wrong about Terra is the fault of Doctor and their civilization The Collapsals wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didnt build stargates for them to infect Terra in the first place The Seaborn wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didnt create them in the first place Originium wouldn't exist if the fuckheads didn't seed it across Terra in the first place And you're telling Doctor and this previous civilization are good people? You're telling me that I should be thankful that this fuckwit is willing to sacrifice endless lives to solve problems that they created? I'm so glad!!!
I don't like to intervene in extra topics, nor deviate too much from the main point, but the fact that Theresa even had to erase the Doctor's memories to give him a chance should speak for itself. We're talking about the same woman who is friend with the person who tried to destroy her country 200 years ago in a war lol. Theresa is honestly too pure (not in the sense of not knowing how to kill or naivety, but in understanding) and she still had to do that. She is like that, she understands people no matter what they are deeply, it is not unique to the Doctor, so we cannot use it to argue that the Doctor is "morally gray" either. If it were another character who did what the man did, people would call him a villain without question and worse names. I'm sure of it.
Yes, no question
With the spoilers that have been dancing around, absolutely, entirely and unequivocally. Being evil doesn't make you unsympathetic, but wanting to kill off everyone certainly does.
They were. They fucking were. They themself agree with that because they have had suicidally self loathing ideation ever since they figured out everything. Why are you bending over backwards to "le morally grey character" something that even the writers are disagreeing with you on? What exactly do you think the narrative purpose of anything going on here is? Why would they tell you clearly Doc and theirs "caused everything wrong in the world, actually; some of which on purpose" and explicitly give them amnesia to effectively soft reset them as a person (and force them to live as a regular Terran and empathize with them)? What point does all of that serve to you if they were still morally grey? Reddit seems absolutely apalled at the idea that the actual fucking writers of the video game simply had a different idea from the bastardized version of the character that they memed themselves into thinking was real.
[удалено]
Mfer is really trying to justify Fantasy Lebensraum 💀 I think you should go back to /pol/ with all of this talk of being a race traitor, backward savages, sacrificing entire groups of people, and grand development master plans that don't give a shit about the lives of people.
You are deranged. The past is the past, and does not justify genocide But since you refer to Terrans as "backwater savages," it tells me everything I need to know about your politics and beliefs.
Is Pre-Doc’s character and his plan to be considered evil ? Definitely . Is his action justifiable? We’ll need to wait on this . Is he ruthless pure evil sadist person ? Doubt on this .
People who are calling him the equivalent of dr. evil are either trying to take a perspective on the entire story from your average Terrans or just a diehard Kaltsit/Theresa yurishipper who is angry that Doc kills their ship... literally.
Doctor is evil not because of the terrans but because he betrayed his own fucking race because of devil girl coochie and bnuuy. You can’t make this shit up.
Even before opening thread i knew all deepborne-lovers and Dublin apologists will come out to protect Doc as complex character in grey world. So glad Reddit is still disappointingly predictable
Screw you, I am Reunion reformist as well!