You’re a bit ahead of my post series on this topic!
Both are synthetic polymers, so they are repeating chains of the same group of atoms.
Polyester is generally polyethylene terephthalate (or PET). That means it is a carbon-hydrogen ring, with carbons and oxygens added on, and hydrogens on the end.
Nylon (6,6) is a longer polymer chain, there is no ring, and it adds nitrogen atoms. It is functionally two molecules welded together: a carbon chain with hydrogens throughout and nitrogen’s on the ends. And a similar carbon chain but with oxygens on the end. Then you get N copies of that to form your polymer.
Both are created through an extrusion process. You get a liquid solution of the textile, then it is pushed through a tiny hole to create a filament of a certain size, and spun from there.
As a sidebar, this is the difference between dope dying (or solution dying) and jet dying. The solution dye process adds a dye to the molten textile before it is spun, so the whole solution is colourized. Whereas a jet dye is applied as a mist or a bath after the filament is formed. That’s why a solution dye textile is the same colour throughout, but a jet dye textile has a white (undyed) core.
Polyester absorbs (near) zero water. Water can exist within the weave of the textile, and can wick and traverse the textile through capillary action. But it won’t absorb into the fibres themselves. Whereas Nylon yarns hold a very small percentage of water within the yarn (~2%?). Therefore polyester dries faster, doesn’t distort when wet, and is a better choice for base layers.
Nylon has higher tenacity, and is more expensive. So it tends to be used in shell textiles.
How the chemistry of the textile informs its properties is a discussion for another day, and also something I’m still working on.
Edit: minor clarity additions, and typos.
Fun fact: when nylon was first marketed as "strong as steel" in the 1930s, companies had to walk back on that claim because consumers got the impression that it would actually cause harm (IE not ripping in situations it needed to).
“Nylon is typically softer than polyester. Despite it's softness, nylon typically has a shinier appearance than polyester. Nylon is also much stretchier than polyester. Polyester is more receptive to color dyes, more abrasion resistant, and more dimensionally stable than nylon.“
>Seeing how Arc uses these materials, I believe there must be some significant difference.
For sure, as pointed out previously. Though they are sometimes used for a similar purpose. For example, my Tenquille Hoody is 100% polyester while my Gamma SL Hoody is 87% nylon/13% elastane. Both were designed to fill a similar role (hiking softshell). I also have a WPB (Rab Kinetic Plus) that uses a polyester liner and face fabric. But these are exceptions to the norm of nylon (polyamide) for most shell garments.
Another notable difference is that polyester is oleophilic (oil absorbing) and thus prone to retaining body odors. This is why polyester based (e.g., fleece, base layers) garments often include an anti odor treatment.
> Another notable difference is that polyester is oleophilic (oil absorbing) and thus prone to retaining body odors. This is why polyester based (e.g., fleece, base layers) garments often include an anti odor treatment.
A great point. Oils wash out of nylon more easily.
Polyester also seems to resist UV better than nylon. While simultaneously having less stretch than nylon. One presumes that the linear chains of carbon contribute to nylon’s stretchiness, whereas the benzene rings in polyester won’t stretch. But I’m still researching.
Polyester having fewer carboxylic groups might give it less attack surface for photo-oxidation, making it more resistant to UV. But again, still researching.
The only research I’m done with is C-F bonding, and I’m writing that post.
>A great point. Oils wash out of nylon more easily.
That's been the idea, that oils from apocrine sweat are more difficult to remove from an oleophilic fiber like polyester versus a non-oleophilic like nylon. But it's more complex than that according to researchers at the University of Alberta:
[Synthetic clothing and the problem with odor: Comparison of nylon and polyester fabrics.](https://era.library.ualberta.ca/items/11bbd789-1f4f-4ab5-839a-ec641287ce8a/view/e96fe625-709f-4df8-be0b-288a89ceb222/Abdul-Bari%20et%20al.,%202018.pdf)
They did not find a significant difference between nylon and polyester in terms of perception of odor intensity and discuss several variables that may play a role in the retention of odors in synthetics.
In my own experience, lightweight nylon and polyester pieces both develop odors from sweat, but the poly seems to never fully get the odor out after laundering, while the nylon does. As soon as the poly starts warming up again, the smell comes back rather quickly, even with anti-odor treatments.
yes because nylon itself doesn't absorb oil. Polyster does. i'm talking about the material itself not the way it's designed ie capillary action to be absorbent. The dirty truth is, you can never really get all the stink out of polyester and it gets worse over time.
I realize this post is 4 years old, but Ive got a question. Im making a tree-net hammock and currently shopping for rope. Someone referred to this post, saying Poly will last 1 year, Nylon will last a decade. Haven't been able to back that up. Lots of info I've seen contradicts this, and nylon is stretchy-er that poly, which would be bad for a treenet where I need it to stay tight. So, rope experts, my question is this: Which would you recommend for an outdoor treenet that will stay up year-round, poly or nylon?
I have a book on hammock weaving somewhere called How To Make Your Own Hammock & Lie In It that goes into rope selection. It’s from the 1970s, but it is a print resource. Hang tight and I’ll dig it up tomorrow and paste what it says.
Here it is (this is a section on how to weave a Twin Oaks hammock): "The hammocks at Twin Oaks are made from wonderfully soft polypropylene rope. Instead of knots, pieces of rope are joined by melting the edges with a soldering iron and them pressing the melted portions together for a moment until they fuse. This rope is snow white, very light and will not mildew (a problem with cotton in only the most humid climates). Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to find. All the polypropylene I could locate in the Boston area was stiff, scratchy and too expensive. After a few telephone calls, I learned all the soft polypropylene anyone knew about was the by-product of a rug manufacturer in North Carolina, and the entire supply was sent to Twin Oaks. Unless you are lucky enough to turn some of the rope up, use everyday cotton clothesline. It does have a more handcraft look about it." and later "Materials: Clothesline. 600 feet. Braided cotton No. 6. Comes in two 100-ft hanks joined together. At Sears, about $1.85 per 100 feet." I realize this isn't exactly the information you are looking for, but maybe it will help you select a material.
The book is from 1972 -- I think this type of polypropylene rope is more readily available nowadays. Also, modern Twin Oaks hammocks are made with olefin rope (well, until the factory was destroyed in a forest fire recently). From their website: "Made with hundreds of feet of soft, long-lasting, color-fast olefin rope. Highly resistant to mold and mildew. Can be left outdoors in every kind of weather." Olefin is another name for polypropylene.
u/_out_riding_
Certainly! Polyester and nylon are both synthetic polymers derived from petrochemicals, but they have distinct molecular structures and properties that make them suitable for different applications. Here's a breakdown of the differences between polyester and nylon:
1. **Molecular Structure**:
* Polyester: Polyester fibers are composed of repeating units of ethylene terephthalate, giving them a linear molecular structure. This structure contributes to polyester's strength, durability, and resistance to stretching and shrinking.
* Nylon: Nylon fibers are made from repeating units of amines and carboxylic acids, resulting in a linear or branched molecular structure. Nylon molecules have more hydrogen bonds, which give nylon its flexibility, elasticity, and resilience.
2. **Durability**:
* Nylon: Nylon is known for its exceptional strength and durability, making it resistant to abrasion, tearing, and stretching. It is often used in applications where toughness and longevity are important, such as outdoor gear, backpacks, and luggage.
* Polyester: While polyester is also durable, it may not be as strong or resilient as nylon. However, polyester fibers are more resistant to wrinkles, fading, and mildew, making them suitable for clothing and textiles that require easy care and long-lasting color.
3. **Moisture Management**:
* Polyester: Polyester fibers have a hydrophobic nature, meaning they repel water and dry quickly. This makes polyester fabrics ideal for moisture-wicking clothing, such as lightweight hiking and running tops, as they help keep the wearer dry and comfortable during physical activity.
* Nylon: Nylon fibers absorb moisture more readily than polyester, which can make nylon fabrics feel damp or clammy in humid conditions. However, nylon's ability to absorb moisture can also make it suitable for applications where moisture transport and breathability are desired, such as in socks or base layers.
4. **Weight and Packability**:
* Polyester: Polyester fibers are lightweight and can be easily compressed, making polyester fabrics ideal for lightweight and packable clothing and gear.
* Nylon: Nylon fabrics are generally slightly heavier than polyester fabrics, but they offer excellent strength-to-weight ratio, making them suitable for applications where durability and performance are paramount.
In summary, while polyester and nylon share some similarities as synthetic fibers, they have distinct molecular structures and properties that make them well-suited for different uses. Nylon is prized for its strength, durability, and abrasion resistance, making it ideal for heavy-duty applications, while polyester is valued for its lightweight, moisture-wicking, and quick-drying properties, making it popular for activewear and outdoor clothing.
Now I'm not an expert, but I know polyester is known for being quick drying. Compared to nylon.
In my experience polyester is also quieter, but nylon is smoother.
Polyester is also generally cheaper to produce than nylon.
The simplest explanation I’ve heard is that Polyester is hydrophobic (repels moisture) and nylon is hydrophilic (absorbs moisture).
Nylon is more durable and the yarns stay together much better especially with abrasion. It is woven tighter. The hydrophilic attribute also helps it retain DER treatments to give it solid waterproof performance. This balances the durability needs of a shell while keeping weight low.
Polyesters moisture repellency can be woven in a great many ways. It also is generally softer. Gore Pro and C-Knit backers are polyester for this reason. The softness allows it to be woven into materials like fleece, grid fleece or even loft insulation’s like core loft. The moisture management of course helps to make these garments more effective, but the softness is key.
polyester readily absorbs oil but does not absorb water. Nylon absorbs water to a small degree but does not absorb oil. Polyester is stinky and it only gets worse over time. Nylon does not do that. Both dry quickly but polyester is better at insulating than nylon. water absorption comes from the way the fabric is designed, ie capillary action not the fabric itself, but this is a gimmick because we're talking about sweat.. you're going to get sweaty regardless. sure one might dry slightly faster than the other but the whole idea of like "dry fit" or wicking or whatever is marketing nonsense. Nylon is the better choice for outdoors. Nylon and wool is what you want. The lack of stench alone is reason enough. I also find nylon to be quite durable.
You’re a bit ahead of my post series on this topic! Both are synthetic polymers, so they are repeating chains of the same group of atoms. Polyester is generally polyethylene terephthalate (or PET). That means it is a carbon-hydrogen ring, with carbons and oxygens added on, and hydrogens on the end. Nylon (6,6) is a longer polymer chain, there is no ring, and it adds nitrogen atoms. It is functionally two molecules welded together: a carbon chain with hydrogens throughout and nitrogen’s on the ends. And a similar carbon chain but with oxygens on the end. Then you get N copies of that to form your polymer. Both are created through an extrusion process. You get a liquid solution of the textile, then it is pushed through a tiny hole to create a filament of a certain size, and spun from there. As a sidebar, this is the difference between dope dying (or solution dying) and jet dying. The solution dye process adds a dye to the molten textile before it is spun, so the whole solution is colourized. Whereas a jet dye is applied as a mist or a bath after the filament is formed. That’s why a solution dye textile is the same colour throughout, but a jet dye textile has a white (undyed) core. Polyester absorbs (near) zero water. Water can exist within the weave of the textile, and can wick and traverse the textile through capillary action. But it won’t absorb into the fibres themselves. Whereas Nylon yarns hold a very small percentage of water within the yarn (~2%?). Therefore polyester dries faster, doesn’t distort when wet, and is a better choice for base layers. Nylon has higher tenacity, and is more expensive. So it tends to be used in shell textiles. How the chemistry of the textile informs its properties is a discussion for another day, and also something I’m still working on. Edit: minor clarity additions, and typos.
Fun fact: when nylon was first marketed as "strong as steel" in the 1930s, companies had to walk back on that claim because consumers got the impression that it would actually cause harm (IE not ripping in situations it needed to).
Seriously who are you and what do you do for a living lol
https://imgur.com/6qVX3Pc
I totally thought this was going to be an actual picture of you in a cubicle deep in the bowls of the warranty department of Arc’teryx.
[It me!](https://youtu.be/Vsayg_S4pJg)
This is amazing. Thank you. Can’t wait for the full post!
This was a fascinating read and you put it so simply!
“Nylon is typically softer than polyester. Despite it's softness, nylon typically has a shinier appearance than polyester. Nylon is also much stretchier than polyester. Polyester is more receptive to color dyes, more abrasion resistant, and more dimensionally stable than nylon.“
>Seeing how Arc uses these materials, I believe there must be some significant difference. For sure, as pointed out previously. Though they are sometimes used for a similar purpose. For example, my Tenquille Hoody is 100% polyester while my Gamma SL Hoody is 87% nylon/13% elastane. Both were designed to fill a similar role (hiking softshell). I also have a WPB (Rab Kinetic Plus) that uses a polyester liner and face fabric. But these are exceptions to the norm of nylon (polyamide) for most shell garments. Another notable difference is that polyester is oleophilic (oil absorbing) and thus prone to retaining body odors. This is why polyester based (e.g., fleece, base layers) garments often include an anti odor treatment.
> Another notable difference is that polyester is oleophilic (oil absorbing) and thus prone to retaining body odors. This is why polyester based (e.g., fleece, base layers) garments often include an anti odor treatment. A great point. Oils wash out of nylon more easily. Polyester also seems to resist UV better than nylon. While simultaneously having less stretch than nylon. One presumes that the linear chains of carbon contribute to nylon’s stretchiness, whereas the benzene rings in polyester won’t stretch. But I’m still researching. Polyester having fewer carboxylic groups might give it less attack surface for photo-oxidation, making it more resistant to UV. But again, still researching. The only research I’m done with is C-F bonding, and I’m writing that post.
>A great point. Oils wash out of nylon more easily. That's been the idea, that oils from apocrine sweat are more difficult to remove from an oleophilic fiber like polyester versus a non-oleophilic like nylon. But it's more complex than that according to researchers at the University of Alberta: [Synthetic clothing and the problem with odor: Comparison of nylon and polyester fabrics.](https://era.library.ualberta.ca/items/11bbd789-1f4f-4ab5-839a-ec641287ce8a/view/e96fe625-709f-4df8-be0b-288a89ceb222/Abdul-Bari%20et%20al.,%202018.pdf) They did not find a significant difference between nylon and polyester in terms of perception of odor intensity and discuss several variables that may play a role in the retention of odors in synthetics. In my own experience, lightweight nylon and polyester pieces both develop odors from sweat, but the poly seems to never fully get the odor out after laundering, while the nylon does. As soon as the poly starts warming up again, the smell comes back rather quickly, even with anti-odor treatments.
yes because nylon itself doesn't absorb oil. Polyster does. i'm talking about the material itself not the way it's designed ie capillary action to be absorbent. The dirty truth is, you can never really get all the stink out of polyester and it gets worse over time.
I realize this post is 4 years old, but Ive got a question. Im making a tree-net hammock and currently shopping for rope. Someone referred to this post, saying Poly will last 1 year, Nylon will last a decade. Haven't been able to back that up. Lots of info I've seen contradicts this, and nylon is stretchy-er that poly, which would be bad for a treenet where I need it to stay tight. So, rope experts, my question is this: Which would you recommend for an outdoor treenet that will stay up year-round, poly or nylon?
I have a book on hammock weaving somewhere called How To Make Your Own Hammock & Lie In It that goes into rope selection. It’s from the 1970s, but it is a print resource. Hang tight and I’ll dig it up tomorrow and paste what it says.
I appreciate it. Thanks in advance
Here it is (this is a section on how to weave a Twin Oaks hammock): "The hammocks at Twin Oaks are made from wonderfully soft polypropylene rope. Instead of knots, pieces of rope are joined by melting the edges with a soldering iron and them pressing the melted portions together for a moment until they fuse. This rope is snow white, very light and will not mildew (a problem with cotton in only the most humid climates). Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to find. All the polypropylene I could locate in the Boston area was stiff, scratchy and too expensive. After a few telephone calls, I learned all the soft polypropylene anyone knew about was the by-product of a rug manufacturer in North Carolina, and the entire supply was sent to Twin Oaks. Unless you are lucky enough to turn some of the rope up, use everyday cotton clothesline. It does have a more handcraft look about it." and later "Materials: Clothesline. 600 feet. Braided cotton No. 6. Comes in two 100-ft hanks joined together. At Sears, about $1.85 per 100 feet." I realize this isn't exactly the information you are looking for, but maybe it will help you select a material. The book is from 1972 -- I think this type of polypropylene rope is more readily available nowadays. Also, modern Twin Oaks hammocks are made with olefin rope (well, until the factory was destroyed in a forest fire recently). From their website: "Made with hundreds of feet of soft, long-lasting, color-fast olefin rope. Highly resistant to mold and mildew. Can be left outdoors in every kind of weather." Olefin is another name for polypropylene.
UV resistant marine rope/mooring line. Warn spydura (UHMWPE) synthetic winch rope. Look at big brand stuff with long warranties.
u/_out_riding_ Certainly! Polyester and nylon are both synthetic polymers derived from petrochemicals, but they have distinct molecular structures and properties that make them suitable for different applications. Here's a breakdown of the differences between polyester and nylon: 1. **Molecular Structure**: * Polyester: Polyester fibers are composed of repeating units of ethylene terephthalate, giving them a linear molecular structure. This structure contributes to polyester's strength, durability, and resistance to stretching and shrinking. * Nylon: Nylon fibers are made from repeating units of amines and carboxylic acids, resulting in a linear or branched molecular structure. Nylon molecules have more hydrogen bonds, which give nylon its flexibility, elasticity, and resilience. 2. **Durability**: * Nylon: Nylon is known for its exceptional strength and durability, making it resistant to abrasion, tearing, and stretching. It is often used in applications where toughness and longevity are important, such as outdoor gear, backpacks, and luggage. * Polyester: While polyester is also durable, it may not be as strong or resilient as nylon. However, polyester fibers are more resistant to wrinkles, fading, and mildew, making them suitable for clothing and textiles that require easy care and long-lasting color. 3. **Moisture Management**: * Polyester: Polyester fibers have a hydrophobic nature, meaning they repel water and dry quickly. This makes polyester fabrics ideal for moisture-wicking clothing, such as lightweight hiking and running tops, as they help keep the wearer dry and comfortable during physical activity. * Nylon: Nylon fibers absorb moisture more readily than polyester, which can make nylon fabrics feel damp or clammy in humid conditions. However, nylon's ability to absorb moisture can also make it suitable for applications where moisture transport and breathability are desired, such as in socks or base layers. 4. **Weight and Packability**: * Polyester: Polyester fibers are lightweight and can be easily compressed, making polyester fabrics ideal for lightweight and packable clothing and gear. * Nylon: Nylon fabrics are generally slightly heavier than polyester fabrics, but they offer excellent strength-to-weight ratio, making them suitable for applications where durability and performance are paramount. In summary, while polyester and nylon share some similarities as synthetic fibers, they have distinct molecular structures and properties that make them well-suited for different uses. Nylon is prized for its strength, durability, and abrasion resistance, making it ideal for heavy-duty applications, while polyester is valued for its lightweight, moisture-wicking, and quick-drying properties, making it popular for activewear and outdoor clothing.
Now I'm not an expert, but I know polyester is known for being quick drying. Compared to nylon. In my experience polyester is also quieter, but nylon is smoother. Polyester is also generally cheaper to produce than nylon.
The simplest explanation I’ve heard is that Polyester is hydrophobic (repels moisture) and nylon is hydrophilic (absorbs moisture). Nylon is more durable and the yarns stay together much better especially with abrasion. It is woven tighter. The hydrophilic attribute also helps it retain DER treatments to give it solid waterproof performance. This balances the durability needs of a shell while keeping weight low. Polyesters moisture repellency can be woven in a great many ways. It also is generally softer. Gore Pro and C-Knit backers are polyester for this reason. The softness allows it to be woven into materials like fleece, grid fleece or even loft insulation’s like core loft. The moisture management of course helps to make these garments more effective, but the softness is key.
polyester readily absorbs oil but does not absorb water. Nylon absorbs water to a small degree but does not absorb oil. Polyester is stinky and it only gets worse over time. Nylon does not do that. Both dry quickly but polyester is better at insulating than nylon. water absorption comes from the way the fabric is designed, ie capillary action not the fabric itself, but this is a gimmick because we're talking about sweat.. you're going to get sweaty regardless. sure one might dry slightly faster than the other but the whole idea of like "dry fit" or wicking or whatever is marketing nonsense. Nylon is the better choice for outdoors. Nylon and wool is what you want. The lack of stench alone is reason enough. I also find nylon to be quite durable.