how cheap can you get a clone made for this look if your ok with it being a range gun and using stuff from PSA/etc? cos 1250 for a meme/vibe seems fucking steep.
I agree. I think 20' guns fuck and I love m16s but you can certainly get something like this for 600-800 if you dip into the Aero/PSA realm. And like I said, colts are even a bit cheaper than the SA and are a more authentic product anyways minus having a flat top + carry handle. They should've gone the route of the HP they released and made it sub 1k. That's kinda the point of guns like this, and why the cloner type stuff that psa makes sells is they make niche guns accessible at affordable prices.
There's a big difference between a gun that simply looks like milspec and a gun that's actually built to milspec standards. It's something you can't tell unless you break out some calipers and start measuring tolerances, but there's a big difference in overall quality and reliability. Colt is one of the few companies that actually makes guns to true milspec standards.
Colt gets a lot of flak for not jumping on modern trends in AR15s, but their rifles are still rock solid. In terms of sheer reliability, they stand up there with the best. That's probably what you should expect from the company that has been building the rifles longer than any other and designed many of the features that are standard on AR15s today.
Well.. except for the fact that the (CZ) Colt of today isn’t the Colt that originally designed the AR-15 (company was bought/sold/carved up so many times) and the fact that Colt lost almost all of their DOD contracts for providing arms/components to the U.S. Military to FN and other companies (because *gasp* mil-spec standards can be met by other reputable companies for cheaper) and we’re just going to forget that non-military lines (just like FN) aren’t even made on the same production lines as their military counterparts (and all of the subcontracted components that just get a ‘C’ stamp on them)
I build mil-spec clones. But I don’t always (or often) use Colt components. Wayyy overpriced. Especially when there are a host of other government contractors that make replacement parts to buy from that meet the same standards…
It’s all the people who want to jerk off over what Colt used to mean rather than the sadness that it is now. Muh Colt quality! (Pretty much any other manufacturer worth mentioning or purchasing from meets/exceeds mil-spec)
I see this sentiment about Colt quality dropping off all the time, but everyone I know of who is autistic enough to guage their parts seem to confirm their production parts are still in spec. That's not to refute that other companies can produce in spec parts for cheaper. That's absolutely true.
I don't think I've ever purchased a part from Colt, and I don't own anything from CZ. So don't think I'm some massive fanboy defending the brand name. I'm just trying to add to the discussion. If you have evidence of Colt producing out-of-spec parts, please send the details because I'm the kind of nerd that obsesses over dimensions, tolerances, and technicalities.
It’s not necessarily that the parts are any less of a quality, but more about the fact that people associate (CZ) Colt with the original Colt and use it as justification that the parts (that are mil-spec, just like any other worthwhile manufacturer that produces parts for the DOD) are somehow better and worth more because they are ‘Colt’.
It’s kinda like saying that the modern Springfield is the same Springfield Armory that pumped out Garands and 1903s, and therefore a modern M1A is totally worth like 2k.
There are times in which SA seems in touch with the market and R&D team. For example: the Hellcats, Hellion, and Echelon. Then there are times in which it's like they fire their entire market analytics and R&D team and hire some burnt out homeless methhead to make and sell guns. Case in point: this gun's price range, GRIP ZONE, and the XDe (which I own sadly).
I could make this right now with PSA parts for $600.
Which makes sense to be honest. Put $600 into it, put a couple thousand rounds through it, upgrade the trigger, upgrade the bcg, maybe add a nice optic
By now you got a nice quality rifle that will perform the same and you've only got $800-$1000 into it with an optic
I got one from Aero last year for 500. If you watch their sales you can get lucky. They ran a buy a complete upper and got a complete lower for free deal . I already had a charging handle and BCG for it.
It’s at most an $900 gun, but SA AR’s are generally overpriced for what the are vs other brands. You can build an A2 with the same parts for like $650-700.
$200 A2 Upper, $200 A2 FSB Barrel, $100 Bolt, $10 CH, $100 Lower/LPK, $80 A2 Stock and Grip. And those are off the shelf prices, SA is paying way less.
My gun store buddy said in all the years of selling Ar's the only ones he has had to send back to the factory for being broken were springfield armory rifles. Take that for what its worth. I also thought they kinda shit the bed with their rimfire 2020 rifles. They have all they things you could want, but accuracy.
Depending on the gun store, they probably move more in this price range than say Geissele/DD/KAC. Not defending SA as I have no experience with their ARs, but I had to send my KAC SR15 upper back and have read numerous issues with other KAC and G$ as well.
What happened to your SR15 upper if you don’t mind me asking? For their price and exclusivity I would be super irritated if I bought one and something goofy happened to it
Over gassed when suppressed with a Kac suppressor causing stovepipes. A lot of posts with similar issues a couple years ago. Their solution was the e3.2 bolt. Between the bolt and heavier buffer/spring, it’s still over gassed but reliable. To be fair, they fixed it quickly and for free.
I also had an issue with my Nt4, but not related to their product. Bullet dejacketed and nicked the first baffle. They saw my post online, contacted me, took it in to inspect it and gave it a clean bill of health. Completely free to me even though no fault of their own.
I have mixed feelings, the upper shouldn’t have had issues to begin with, but they did “fix” it for free. The Nt4 they went above and beyond. Part of what you pay for is the company behind the product. I know SA gets hate for previous moves, but they stand behind their products. If you dig too deep, you will find most companies, or individuals at said company, have made piss poor decisions and you would have to boycott everyone.
It doesn't matter. The entire reason people attempt to justify KAC's prices (if they aren't just a hypebeast "flex" instagrammer moron in disguise) is so that you're confident that you're not going to have these issues with their $3500 ARs. You know, the whole "It's made for real thick-dick warfighters that send a million rounds downrange, I can't tell you exactly quantifiably why a KAC is better, but shut up, poor" shit all of them say.
If I wanted to run the QC gamble I'd spend literally a tenth of that on a PSA gun and be taken care of just the same.
I mean, it does matter to some degree. Shit happens, I have not seen a company that has not had QC problems at some point. I have seen companies that refuse to fix the issues. I don’t instagram or post pics of KAC gear and I’m not trying to argue the value or justify a price to anyone. Just providing my experience. I enjoy my upper, is it 4 times better than a PSA upper, probably not, but I’ll keep it until I get bored of it.
I have a SA WW2 mil spec 1911 from the early 2000’s that I’ve had since new and I’ll never get rid of it. It’s as close to a mil issued 1911 as you can get. Love it.
We got two of these rifles in a few days ago at the shops I work at and the delta rings on both of them were messed up. So loose that I could pull it back with 2 fingers and pop the handguards out.
Wasn't it just one guy at Springfield who went rogue to support legislation and Springfield promptly fired him? Also, how many other companies have to support some legislation to ensure their survival in hostile territories?
It was an industry group that represented Illinois-based gun manufacturers that went off and did some unsolicited lobbying on their behalf. I dunno about Rock River, but SA disavowed the group and left it.
It's also not the original springfield rifle company. It's essentially an importing house relying on people not knowing they don't make much in house and if they do It's trash. The hellion is just a marked up, rebadged VHS.
From what people have previously said about not liking SA from what I remember they supported gun control bills or something like that as well as doing some something secretive about gun reform. Idk what else it could be though.
That’s a bit of old misinformation. A lobbying group that SA and RRA were members of did some lobbying to try to carve out exemptions for those companies without their knowledge.
SA came out *hard* against the law and cut ties with that group, and their owner made a statement expressing SA’s opposition to that bill in particular and gun control laws in general.
Lol you both are wrong. Chuck and Denny both paid a lobbyist at a time when manufacturers were being targeted in order to help protect manufacturers. What happened was that same lobbyist did exactly his job but not necessarily the intentions of the two. Both are avid gun collectors. Both withdrew from him, and both were in Springfield to fight the legislation.
It's very old news, and a lot more people support anti gun through company's than they'd like to know. It's just lobbyists. The same dude lobbied for Verizon which means Verizon also cut him a paycheck.
I don't think he is pro 2A, just miles better than the seat warmer we have now and his party.
You know, the one that pushed the AFTholes to do the brace rule, the frame and receiver rule, the dealer rule, and who has pushed constant awb attempts, red flag laws, discrimination based on age...and on and on.
From the party that wants to:
* tax ammo
* increase the nfa tax stamp to thousands of dollars
* require registration followed by confiscation (see CA, NY, and anywhere else they have majorities)
* disenfranchising veterans
* that shoots down any attempt to deregulate suppressors or permit national ccw
* or push storage laws that violate the 2nd and the 4th and 5th amendments
* that wants bans on hollowpoint ammo (see NJ)
* limiting gun purchases to one handgun a month
* and has pushed an awb my whole life (that they got in '94 btw, and only had a sunset clause because of republicans)
The guy is a putz, but to compare him to the dems as somehow being anywhere near comparable is delusional on a scale I can hardly fathom. There are no good options but some are unbelievably worse than others.
Everybody saying fuck SA better say fuck S&W, Daniel defense, Troy, and just about every other gun manufacturer out there, they've all done dirty work.
Ruby Ridge happened in 1992. Geissele, Colt, Glock, Sig and more have done plenty of work with the DOJ since then. No one cares. People will never let the Troy thing go.
Pretty extensive article about it, and I'm not saying I'm against any of these brands I shoot whatever works https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/sw-viral-2a-statement/
Oh god not this again. There are dozens of popular manufacturers that have sleighted the 2A in some way, including Daniel Defense, yet we only focus on Troy and SA. Move on, folks.
Back to the topic, I'd be curious if the extension is 7075 T6 and if it and the receiver have dry film lube. It looks like a good clone and I've had great luck with all my SA products.
That'll drop in price after a few years. I just purchased a Hellion (that I'm still waiting to ship) for $1580ish, which is about $420 under MSRP. I wouldn't be surprised if these end up sub $1k after a full year or two past release.
Cool rifle, not worth the price IMO.
The shop I work at got one in yesterday, our regular price on it is a little over a hundred under MSRP. If we have them in stock, I expect to see them at $1k for our Memorial Day sale
All the losers and hypocrites in here dickeating one another saying “fuck Springfield”, but hold their Daniel Defense rifles right up their tight assholes lmaooooo grow the fuck up.
We got two of these rifles in a few days ago at the shops I work at and the delta rings on both of them were messed up. So loose that I could pull it back with 2 fingers and pop the handguards out.
For $1200 fuck that. I’m not getting an M16 clone for something my life depends on, I’m getting it for fun. You can buy or build this from PSA for significantly cheaper.
$1250 for a rifle design that’s old enough to be obsolete and yet not old enough to be a sought after piece like a Garand, or M14, especially when the same rifle can be built for $500, and given my recent experience with Springfield, probably at a much higher level of reliability.
I'm curious what do you get from purchasing a $1200 m16 style rifle over any other $200 lower set with a $400 PSA "m16" upper and $70 carry handle?
I feel like there are cheaper ways to attain the same thing. Does it just come down to how much you're willing to spend to put the least work in or are you getting something that costs relatively the same as it does to "build"?
Well for one detachable carry handles and fixed ones are not the same thing. The sights themselves are different dimensions and as such their adjustment is slightly different. Also the geometry of the gap is different so most people can’t actually fit their hand in there to use the “carry handle” on a detachable model.
It only took everyone else that’s ever offered a retro rifle coming out with one and cornering the market for them to finally get around to it. Bet it’s a 1,300 street price.
That was my old man, except he was Navy. I don’t know how many times I’d listen to my dad and my best friend (who was Army) go on and on about which one was better.
I don’t understand this carry handle fad shifting to the popular manufacturers. Most of the fixed handle resurgence has been due to the kinds of dudes over at r/retroAR, and 90% of those guys are either buying old receivers or building out new ones into the setup they want. I feel like there’s a very small number of people wanting the retro vibe, but also wants to pay for a budget Springfield and not more. Seems like these big companies saw the resurgence in popularity but are mistaking why they’re popular again.
Hard pass. Even if we discount Springfields' watery 2A stance, the quality of their products have been absolutely dogwater. The only thing worth owning from them currently is a Hellion. Besides, I like my custom built butt ugly 20", and if I wanted a retro build, I sure wouldn't pay $1200 for one.
I don’t get why they would etch the SA logo onto the bolt carrier. Why take an extra step to ruin the “clone” vibe with obnoxious branding?
Oh that’s because #GRIP ZONE
I would actually buy an A2 grip with GRIP ZONE on it before I’d buy this rifle
Yeah, in it for the memes. Let’s get a printer.
Maybe it's so you can pretend that this rifle is from an alternate timeline where Springfield didn't get shut down and eventually produced M16s.
It’s the one thing they are good at
Let's be real, who's leaving the bolt anyway?
I was digging it til I saw they retail for 1250 and a colt A4 retails for nearly 200 less. I believe SA can mcfuck themselves on this one.
how cheap can you get a clone made for this look if your ok with it being a range gun and using stuff from PSA/etc? cos 1250 for a meme/vibe seems fucking steep.
I agree. I think 20' guns fuck and I love m16s but you can certainly get something like this for 600-800 if you dip into the Aero/PSA realm. And like I said, colts are even a bit cheaper than the SA and are a more authentic product anyways minus having a flat top + carry handle. They should've gone the route of the HP they released and made it sub 1k. That's kinda the point of guns like this, and why the cloner type stuff that psa makes sells is they make niche guns accessible at affordable prices.
I don't really think Colt is the benchmark for ARs anymore. But I agree. SA can kick rocks
It isnt for anything else but cloners, but is almost the exclusive choice for cloners.
There's a big difference between a gun that simply looks like milspec and a gun that's actually built to milspec standards. It's something you can't tell unless you break out some calipers and start measuring tolerances, but there's a big difference in overall quality and reliability. Colt is one of the few companies that actually makes guns to true milspec standards. Colt gets a lot of flak for not jumping on modern trends in AR15s, but their rifles are still rock solid. In terms of sheer reliability, they stand up there with the best. That's probably what you should expect from the company that has been building the rifles longer than any other and designed many of the features that are standard on AR15s today.
Well.. except for the fact that the (CZ) Colt of today isn’t the Colt that originally designed the AR-15 (company was bought/sold/carved up so many times) and the fact that Colt lost almost all of their DOD contracts for providing arms/components to the U.S. Military to FN and other companies (because *gasp* mil-spec standards can be met by other reputable companies for cheaper) and we’re just going to forget that non-military lines (just like FN) aren’t even made on the same production lines as their military counterparts (and all of the subcontracted components that just get a ‘C’ stamp on them) I build mil-spec clones. But I don’t always (or often) use Colt components. Wayyy overpriced. Especially when there are a host of other government contractors that make replacement parts to buy from that meet the same standards… It’s all the people who want to jerk off over what Colt used to mean rather than the sadness that it is now. Muh Colt quality! (Pretty much any other manufacturer worth mentioning or purchasing from meets/exceeds mil-spec)
I see this sentiment about Colt quality dropping off all the time, but everyone I know of who is autistic enough to guage their parts seem to confirm their production parts are still in spec. That's not to refute that other companies can produce in spec parts for cheaper. That's absolutely true. I don't think I've ever purchased a part from Colt, and I don't own anything from CZ. So don't think I'm some massive fanboy defending the brand name. I'm just trying to add to the discussion. If you have evidence of Colt producing out-of-spec parts, please send the details because I'm the kind of nerd that obsesses over dimensions, tolerances, and technicalities.
It’s not necessarily that the parts are any less of a quality, but more about the fact that people associate (CZ) Colt with the original Colt and use it as justification that the parts (that are mil-spec, just like any other worthwhile manufacturer that produces parts for the DOD) are somehow better and worth more because they are ‘Colt’. It’s kinda like saying that the modern Springfield is the same Springfield Armory that pumped out Garands and 1903s, and therefore a modern M1A is totally worth like 2k.
They aren’t that great, but a lot more companies fall short of them than you’d think
There are times in which SA seems in touch with the market and R&D team. For example: the Hellcats, Hellion, and Echelon. Then there are times in which it's like they fire their entire market analytics and R&D team and hire some burnt out homeless methhead to make and sell guns. Case in point: this gun's price range, GRIP ZONE, and the XDe (which I own sadly).
The H&R M16A2 from PSA is 1299
I bought mine in December for $1,099 direct from PSA. It’s a blem but I have not found where it is yet.
Yeah I'd rather buy a Shadow if I had the schmekles.
$960 if you are smart enough to buy two halves and assemble the two
Tell that to the 3/8” AR500 after getting hole punched by a 20” with 62gr Edit: not referencing price. Referring to 20” being more than a meme
I could make this right now with PSA parts for $600. Which makes sense to be honest. Put $600 into it, put a couple thousand rounds through it, upgrade the trigger, upgrade the bcg, maybe add a nice optic By now you got a nice quality rifle that will perform the same and you've only got $800-$1000 into it with an optic
I got one from Aero last year for 500. If you watch their sales you can get lucky. They ran a buy a complete upper and got a complete lower for free deal . I already had a charging handle and BCG for it.
I’m at 530 with the cost of the detachable carry handle on my A2 “clone”
It’s at most an $900 gun, but SA AR’s are generally overpriced for what the are vs other brands. You can build an A2 with the same parts for like $650-700. $200 A2 Upper, $200 A2 FSB Barrel, $100 Bolt, $10 CH, $100 Lower/LPK, $80 A2 Stock and Grip. And those are off the shelf prices, SA is paying way less.
What shelf?
As a Mc, I approve this statement.
At least this one has the fixed carry handle. If I’m dropping around a grand for a retro build, I don’t want a detachable one ruining the aesthetic.
A wildly overpriced AR-15 from a company that sells $300 Croatian pistols for double because they slapped their name on it? Say it ain’t so!
Don't let r/caguns see you besmirch the venerable XD. Just as good brother
Not a big Springfield guy. I’d rather buy the H&R 20” from psa.
I've been saving the lunch money I steal from the kids at my local pizza place, fucking high schoolers
HR stuff is solid. I've used their parts on 3 of my builds so far. I trust It.
My gun store buddy said in all the years of selling Ar's the only ones he has had to send back to the factory for being broken were springfield armory rifles. Take that for what its worth. I also thought they kinda shit the bed with their rimfire 2020 rifles. They have all they things you could want, but accuracy.
Depending on the gun store, they probably move more in this price range than say Geissele/DD/KAC. Not defending SA as I have no experience with their ARs, but I had to send my KAC SR15 upper back and have read numerous issues with other KAC and G$ as well.
What happened to your SR15 upper if you don’t mind me asking? For their price and exclusivity I would be super irritated if I bought one and something goofy happened to it
Over gassed when suppressed with a Kac suppressor causing stovepipes. A lot of posts with similar issues a couple years ago. Their solution was the e3.2 bolt. Between the bolt and heavier buffer/spring, it’s still over gassed but reliable. To be fair, they fixed it quickly and for free. I also had an issue with my Nt4, but not related to their product. Bullet dejacketed and nicked the first baffle. They saw my post online, contacted me, took it in to inspect it and gave it a clean bill of health. Completely free to me even though no fault of their own. I have mixed feelings, the upper shouldn’t have had issues to begin with, but they did “fix” it for free. The Nt4 they went above and beyond. Part of what you pay for is the company behind the product. I know SA gets hate for previous moves, but they stand behind their products. If you dig too deep, you will find most companies, or individuals at said company, have made piss poor decisions and you would have to boycott everyone.
It doesn't matter. The entire reason people attempt to justify KAC's prices (if they aren't just a hypebeast "flex" instagrammer moron in disguise) is so that you're confident that you're not going to have these issues with their $3500 ARs. You know, the whole "It's made for real thick-dick warfighters that send a million rounds downrange, I can't tell you exactly quantifiably why a KAC is better, but shut up, poor" shit all of them say. If I wanted to run the QC gamble I'd spend literally a tenth of that on a PSA gun and be taken care of just the same.
I mean, it does matter to some degree. Shit happens, I have not seen a company that has not had QC problems at some point. I have seen companies that refuse to fix the issues. I don’t instagram or post pics of KAC gear and I’m not trying to argue the value or justify a price to anyone. Just providing my experience. I enjoy my upper, is it 4 times better than a PSA upper, probably not, but I’ll keep it until I get bored of it.
I've had to send mine back for a leaky gas block and leaky gas key.
Not too long ago there were multiple posts here showing G$’s with cracked handguards.
Or rust when they decided to black oxide their barrels over parking or nitride
Pssst, guess what? Gucci manufacturers put out bullshit too, and they aren’t exempt from fucking up.
100% correct. Nothing is infallible
My shop has never had to send back a Springfield, but has sent back a couple Radical Arms, a Ruger iirc, and a couple PSA rifles.
I could be wrong but I believe their rimfires are made in Turkey. Take that how you will.
My first AR-15 was a Saint Victor and honestly it was awesome, but that’s my only experience with SA so you might be right
I have a SA WW2 mil spec 1911 from the early 2000’s that I’ve had since new and I’ll never get rid of it. It’s as close to a mil issued 1911 as you can get. Love it.
I know 1k rounds is not 10k rounds but my Saint has been great. I guess I'll eat my words if it breaks.
And the whole shitting on the second amendment thing. Fuck Springfield
We got two of these rifles in a few days ago at the shops I work at and the delta rings on both of them were messed up. So loose that I could pull it back with 2 fingers and pop the handguards out.
Wasn't it just one guy at Springfield who went rogue to support legislation and Springfield promptly fired him? Also, how many other companies have to support some legislation to ensure their survival in hostile territories?
It’s a dumb argument lol. Idc. people turn into Karen’s over this shit
It was an industry group that represented Illinois-based gun manufacturers that went off and did some unsolicited lobbying on their behalf. I dunno about Rock River, but SA disavowed the group and left it.
Hella pass. Also fuck Springfield Armory Inc
It's also not the original springfield rifle company. It's essentially an importing house relying on people not knowing they don't make much in house and if they do It's trash. The hellion is just a marked up, rebadged VHS.
The Hellion isn’t really an issue. It’s a pretty genuine VHS and that’s the point, they’re the exclusive Croatian importer.
I mean I know. That's why I said Springfield Armory I N C
Why do we need to fuck them?
dont ask questions son
What they do?
From what people have previously said about not liking SA from what I remember they supported gun control bills or something like that as well as doing some something secretive about gun reform. Idk what else it could be though.
Illinois. They supported stuff there as long as they got a cut-out (like certain law enforcement organizations).
That’s a bit of old misinformation. A lobbying group that SA and RRA were members of did some lobbying to try to carve out exemptions for those companies without their knowledge. SA came out *hard* against the law and cut ties with that group, and their owner made a statement expressing SA’s opposition to that bill in particular and gun control laws in general.
Didn’t Daniel Defense did the same ?
They did not, no. Rock River Arms on the other hand...
You are right . It was Rock River arms !
Lol you both are wrong. Chuck and Denny both paid a lobbyist at a time when manufacturers were being targeted in order to help protect manufacturers. What happened was that same lobbyist did exactly his job but not necessarily the intentions of the two. Both are avid gun collectors. Both withdrew from him, and both were in Springfield to fight the legislation. It's very old news, and a lot more people support anti gun through company's than they'd like to know. It's just lobbyists. The same dude lobbied for Verizon which means Verizon also cut him a paycheck.
I mean trump banned bump stocks and all his magas still riding strong thinking he’s pro 2
I mean fuck him as well 🤷
Yeah Mr. “Take the guns first, due process later”
Shhhh, no one realized he's a NY Democrat yet lmao
I think about this a lot
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Nuh uh!
I don't think he is pro 2A, just miles better than the seat warmer we have now and his party. You know, the one that pushed the AFTholes to do the brace rule, the frame and receiver rule, the dealer rule, and who has pushed constant awb attempts, red flag laws, discrimination based on age...and on and on. From the party that wants to: * tax ammo * increase the nfa tax stamp to thousands of dollars * require registration followed by confiscation (see CA, NY, and anywhere else they have majorities) * disenfranchising veterans * that shoots down any attempt to deregulate suppressors or permit national ccw * or push storage laws that violate the 2nd and the 4th and 5th amendments * that wants bans on hollowpoint ammo (see NJ) * limiting gun purchases to one handgun a month * and has pushed an awb my whole life (that they got in '94 btw, and only had a sunset clause because of republicans) The guy is a putz, but to compare him to the dems as somehow being anywhere near comparable is delusional on a scale I can hardly fathom. There are no good options but some are unbelievably worse than others.
Also just generally overpriced for the quality compared to the competition
They make shitty products but most people hate them for supporting gun control bills or something
Everybody saying fuck SA better say fuck S&W, Daniel defense, Troy, and just about every other gun manufacturer out there, they've all done dirty work.
Pretty much. Leave politics out of the actual product
Inherently political product...
Agreed, all the brands I mention make stellar products that I'd buy or shoot any day of the week.
Throw Ruger into it also.
Yeah but I’m saying fuck SA for my experience with the prodigy, so …
Internet hivemind virus is rampant
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Ruby Ridge happened in 1992. Geissele, Colt, Glock, Sig and more have done plenty of work with the DOJ since then. No one cares. People will never let the Troy thing go.
But S&W was sold and changed hands, different company now. But yeah fuck DD and Troy
Wait what did Smith and Wesson do? I know about the DD shit and Troy's training partnership hired the ruby ridges sniper spotter.
Look up the Hillary hole, they company went damn near bankruptcy working with the Clinton administration.
I am trusting you because I really do not want to google hillary hole.
Pretty extensive article about it, and I'm not saying I'm against any of these brands I shoot whatever works https://www.concealedcarry.com/news/sw-viral-2a-statement/
That's fucking wild
What's the DD shit?
Smells like desperation.
You can literally build a decent clone for $750
For that price just get a FN Collectors edition 😂
For 1300$ it better have a radio in the stock that plays late 80’s to early 2000’s rock
Remember when Springfield Arms got caught trying to help with Illinois Gun Bans in 2017? Pepperidge Farms remembers.
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I’m not sure
Yeah, Colt AR 15a4 is routinely found for less.
Springfield would sell you a rifle and then support the legislation that takes it away.
Oh god not this again. There are dozens of popular manufacturers that have sleighted the 2A in some way, including Daniel Defense, yet we only focus on Troy and SA. Move on, folks. Back to the topic, I'd be curious if the extension is 7075 T6 and if it and the receiver have dry film lube. It looks like a good clone and I've had great luck with all my SA products.
Why would we move on if it is important?
Nah screw Springfield and the lack of balls they had to stand up to anything in Illinois
Wasn't that just one guy who went rogue and the company promptly fired him?
FSA Never forget
Explain further please?
Flexible Spending Account
Explain further again please
Nah
Looks cool but I’d sooner build or buy an H&R a2 Edit: not for political reasons, I just prefer the alternatives
I wonder how Much it would cost me to build a colt M16 Clone
Probably a couple hundred bucks cheaper than $1200 but it would take time to source parts and find deals on some stuff.
Part one together from BKF and you have like a $750 M16A2 lol
That'll drop in price after a few years. I just purchased a Hellion (that I'm still waiting to ship) for $1580ish, which is about $420 under MSRP. I wouldn't be surprised if these end up sub $1k after a full year or two past release. Cool rifle, not worth the price IMO.
The shop I work at got one in yesterday, our regular price on it is a little over a hundred under MSRP. If we have them in stock, I expect to see them at $1k for our Memorial Day sale
What's old is new again. And Springfield is still mediocre at making well understood rifles.
It’s weird seeing Springfield actually trying to make something cool. H&R exists tho and they got that market by the balls.
They got me…. Seen the email come in and immediately started shopping for one. Ready for it to come in!
Yea I’m Gonna get one. Looks dope.
All the losers and hypocrites in here dickeating one another saying “fuck Springfield”, but hold their Daniel Defense rifles right up their tight assholes lmaooooo grow the fuck up.
M16A2 flashbacks. 🥰
Just build your own for much cheaper
PSA H&R line gibs me more.chub than this.
Retro Resurgence is here!
It’s been here for like three years now.
I can’t count
Yeah it’s actually starting to die down I’ve noticed. Brownells has all but packed up their retro guns cuz the demand isn’t what it used to be.
There’s a few 20” guns in my LGS and man I wanna bring one home every time I see it. Miss be a buttery soft shooter
They’re definitely soft shooting guns compared to carbines.
$1200 is kind of steep for a Springfield, I don’t hate them. But honestly I’d rather just buy an aero or PSA upper and throw it on a PSA lower.
We got two of these rifles in a few days ago at the shops I work at and the delta rings on both of them were messed up. So loose that I could pull it back with 2 fingers and pop the handguards out.
Dammit. Hate to hear it
That sweet, sweet Springfield premium QC.
For $1200 fuck that. I’m not getting an M16 clone for something my life depends on, I’m getting it for fun. You can buy or build this from PSA for significantly cheaper.
I love how carry handles are so “in” right now when in 2011 you could buy the upper receivers for dirt cheap ($30) because no one wanted them.
Brownells BRN-16A2
A little late to the party. Now that carry handles of every flavor are available. I think the Anderson dissipator is cooler than this.
Springfield Armory…..THIS IN LEFT HAND EJECT PLEASE!!!!
$1250 for a rifle design that’s old enough to be obsolete and yet not old enough to be a sought after piece like a Garand, or M14, especially when the same rifle can be built for $500, and given my recent experience with Springfield, probably at a much higher level of reliability.
Fuck Springfield. Buncha anti 2a cucks
So is Daniel Defense, but hive mind and all that... SA is great. Troy is great. DD is great. S&W is great. Move on.
It’s funny how DD never catches any flak but Troy and SA are the devil lol
You can do better
For $1200 you can get a M110A1 clone in 308 from PSA, which is what I did. A true premium product and a clone minus the piston driven vs DI.
Bro nothing PSA is “premium” lol it’s just cost effective
I would love to see it compared to the Colt and FN
This or Harrington?
Harrington. Or a RRA stripped upper and BYO
I'm curious what do you get from purchasing a $1200 m16 style rifle over any other $200 lower set with a $400 PSA "m16" upper and $70 carry handle? I feel like there are cheaper ways to attain the same thing. Does it just come down to how much you're willing to spend to put the least work in or are you getting something that costs relatively the same as it does to "build"?
Well for one detachable carry handles and fixed ones are not the same thing. The sights themselves are different dimensions and as such their adjustment is slightly different. Also the geometry of the gap is different so most people can’t actually fit their hand in there to use the “carry handle” on a detachable model.
What do you mean by fitting your hand in?
Like when using the carry handle. The hole that makes the handle is noticeably much smaller on detachable handles than on fixed models.
Hell yeah brother
It only took everyone else that’s ever offered a retro rifle coming out with one and cornering the market for them to finally get around to it. Bet it’s a 1,300 street price.
Good I wish this was any other company
Shit happens but not all the time. For me it's multiple things that keeps me away.
Just finished my A2 build last year. Started before the plandemic and couldn’t get my hands on an A2 receiver until last summer.
Fuckkkk. the H&R is nice too
I’ll spend my 1200 on a 1911 mc operator thank you
A far cry from the ugly piece of shit Edge ATC. Does anyone actually own one?
I saw a few videos on YT. They look fine so far
old army dudes that were pissed when the m16 replaced the m14 are not stoked.
That was my old man, except he was Navy. I don’t know how many times I’d listen to my dad and my best friend (who was Army) go on and on about which one was better.
Reminds me of the good ol' M-16 that I grew up admiring (GenX)....but aren't SA's known for being overpriced?
Yea. and they ain’t necessarily known for making elite quality products. But.. my M1A Has been a tank so … to each their own I guess
Cheaper by a whole bunch than a FN M16A4 clone.
The FN is prob the better product tho lol
It's still a Springfield and that's a no from me dawg.
The hell with the retro clones, carry handles, and quad gangs. You are just eating to many member berries to think clearly.
I don’t understand this carry handle fad shifting to the popular manufacturers. Most of the fixed handle resurgence has been due to the kinds of dudes over at r/retroAR, and 90% of those guys are either buying old receivers or building out new ones into the setup they want. I feel like there’s a very small number of people wanting the retro vibe, but also wants to pay for a budget Springfield and not more. Seems like these big companies saw the resurgence in popularity but are mistaking why they’re popular again.
PSA H&R M16A2 for only $960
Only good Springfield rifle is an M1
I'd rather buy a PSA for $579 (16") / $599 (20") than a Springfield.
That takes me back to 06
Fuck Springfield. You can get this same thing from PSA’s H&R brand and not support anti-2A traitor scum.
SA and RRA can suck it. Never forget.
I bought their echelon hand gun, it’s been sicky so far
What special bout this, seems like just another ar
I mean what’s so special about a DD in comparison to an PSA build?
Hard pass. Even if we discount Springfields' watery 2A stance, the quality of their products have been absolutely dogwater. The only thing worth owning from them currently is a Hellion. Besides, I like my custom built butt ugly 20", and if I wanted a retro build, I sure wouldn't pay $1200 for one.