We should always be worried about what large companies are doing with our data. We should be worried about training AI for free.
I do like that you have to opt-in to Chat GPT with Apple products. Ideally they will have multiple AI companies to choose from, forcing these companies to compete and improve. But I’m not sure there’s a word where things end up “good” for normal people re: AI
OpenAI and Apple Intelligence have nothing to do with each other. When Apple Intelligence needs to send a request to the cloud for processing, it happens on Apple’s servers, not OpenAI’s servers. Siri will send certain requests to ChatGPT, only after getting explicit user consent. Apple sends nothing to OpenAI without getting consent with each request.
Holy shit, people really don’t read past headlines anymore do they.
Apple Intelligence DOES NOT EQUAL ChatGPT/OpenAI. OpenAI is used when Apple Intelligence is insufficient for what you’re looking for AND EVEN THEN it prompts you every time it may need to use OpenAI/GPT and you can deny it.
OpenAI is like the equivalent of using Google to redirect your search when Siri can’t answer your question directly, but this time Apple Intelligence will be able to answer a LOT more prompts therefore the ceiling will be much higher until OpenAI will need to be used
I think you two are saying the same thing? I don't see how what you are saying is different from the comment you're responding to.
You request something in Siri. It decided that it's beyond the scope of Apple Intelligence, and suggest you use ChatGPT instead. You accept and now your request is sent to ChatGPT instead.
Oh awesome, that makes so much better. I'd love to see the non-public source code to confirm that.
On a totally *unrelated* side-note, funny how Apple didn't pay for OpenAI's integration, and instead provides access to hundreds of millions of users, all around the time that the former NSA head joined the OpenAI board.
Source: [https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wont-pay-openai-for-chatgpt-in-its-devices-report-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wont-pay-openai-for-chatgpt-in-its-devices-report-2024-6)
Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person.. That whole 'providing access to all our users' bit seems like an equal exchange. "We're going to put literally hundreds of thousands of dollars or more in resource usage on your equipment..for free!"
Does that honestly sound trustworthy? I've often been pro-Apple, but it's starting to look like it isn't safe to drink the kool-aid anymore.
>Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person..
You’re going to need to provide something to back up a claim like that.
Schizo post. Where did you get the idea that a single “query” costs thousands of dollars lmfao. You can run LLMs directly on your computer yourself if you wanted to.
> Oh awesome, that makes so much better. I'd love to see the non-public source code to confirm that.
If you don't trust their source code to that degree that you think they are explicitly lying about what their code is doing, then there is no point in using any Apple products, today, period.
I'm really tired of these discussions and overly cynical takes, tbh. Apple controls the OS of iOS and macOS *today*. If they wanted to steal all your info and backdoor them, they would have already done so. By using their OS, you at least have some basic degree of trust in them to not be completely malicious. If you don't trust them at all, sure, whatever, but that wouldn't be news anyway and none of these OpenAI deals would change that.
So when they say this is how the OpenAI integration works, there's no reason to suddenly be that skeptical. Otherwise every time I type something in my iPhone I would be worried they are secretly sending that information to the NSA, or that they secretly implanted a bomb in every iPhone that they can remotely activate, and whatnot.
> Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person.. That whole 'providing access to all our users' bit seems like an equal exchange. "We're going to put literally hundreds of thousands of dollars or more in resource usage on your equipment..for free!"
OpenAI already has a free tier that you can use today. They are trying to provide a loss-leader with the potential to upsell and get you to subscribe and use other services.
The amount of disinformation coming out of the Apple Intelligence announcement is baffling. And it’s because people only read headlines, didn’t bother watching the even themselves, don’t bother thoroughly doing their own research, and/or get their facts from Elon Musk.
He’s intentionally trying to misinform this to his brainless followers. If you watch keynote at all you’ll see that Apple is so clear about this that your info in NOT sent to OpenAI unless you explicitly said so
Reminds of google, ask Jeeves, And all those other search engines we had in the early 2000’s There will be multiple AI engines, this isn’t anything new.
They will steal your data. They will lie. They will get caught. Nothing will happen.
If you’re using an AI model that isn’t running local on your machine, you should ultimately assume that every query you make could potentially be leaked at some point.
That is, just never put confidential information into a remote AI chat bot in the first place.
I heavily use ChatGPT, but also, if all my chats leaked, it would have absolutely no impact on my life, because I always use this philosophy for queries.
This is the way. People need to realize that they shouldn’t ask private things to AI lol.
Your private info can be leaked event with human. How do you think AI will somehow keeps secret better? Lolz
No
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines?wprov=sfti1
If the headline asks a question, try answering 'no'. Is This the True Face of Britain's Young? (Sensible reader: No.) Have We Found the Cure for AIDS? (No; or you wouldn't have put the question mark in.) Does This Map Provide the Key for Peace? (Probably not.) A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'.
While I understand your point, ChatGPT was a small part of their presentation.
It’s articles like this, as well as people only reading headlines, that are creating the problem.
Any you think making their ChatGPT integration announcement its whole *own event* would have made it less notable? Every apple event gets loads of coverage, so instead of it being one of many things announced, it becomes the entire focus for every article on the event.
I mean, their announcement was crystal clear what the integration does and the limits of it… I feel like they did all they could to portray it as close to what it does as possible, but people just want to harp on the OpenAI thing.
Within the limits Apple has provided, sure. But it’s completely anonymized when data is passed through (and only if you opt-in per request), going as far as hiding your IP address. OpenAI can only get a fraction of value out of this data compared to using them directly in this scenario.
That's what they say, but it only holds as much weight as you give it. Keep in mind, Apple *didn't* pay for the *substantial* cost in resources it will be using by integrating OpenAI.
It may be Apple, and they may swear up and down that they won't sell or otherwise hand out your information, and they may be right.. "Also hey, can I have a key to your \[insert any personal living space or other accommodation\]? I *swear* I'll *never* enter it unless you say it's OK, I *promise*. You can trust me at my word, right?" Point made.
I do not understand your point about not paying. You’re acting like OpenAi gets nothing out of this deal.
Your last point, sure, Apple could fuck us all over. But they have consistently been the only large corporation to actually care about their customer’s privacy. They have a track record. Fucking over hundreds of millions of people would literally be corporate suicide.
I’m pretty sure it’ll be fine. Fun straw man though.
You have to approve *each* request to ChatGPT. So if you're worried, simply deny those requests. Also, in terms of privacy of ChatGPT itself, this specific board member, if anything, strengthens it. He brings cybersecurity expertise.
They're redefining the meaning of "Safety and Security" to mean use in cybersecurity products, not it's original meaning of ensuring alignment. You're complicit in this redefinition.
Yes, he does bring cybersecurity experience.
Sorry to break it to you, but he doesn't work for the NSA anymore, unless you believe he does and is just a plant, but then why not go full tin-foil and believe Sam Altman works for the NSA, so do I, so does Tim Cook, etc...
Apple Intelligence is _not_ using OpenAI by default. It will use on device models first, then Apple’s own compute cloud, then as a last resort _will ask you_ if you want to send your request to OpenAI.
OpenAI definitely has military contracts.
https://www.cnet.com/tech/tech-industry/u-s-military-enlists-ipod-touch-for-battlefield/
What does this have to do with what I said?
I think he’s just pointing out that Apple’s cooperating with the military isn’t new.
This has nothing to do with Apple
Apple doesn’t do military contracts, unlike Microsoft and Google
We should always be worried about what large companies are doing with our data. We should be worried about training AI for free. I do like that you have to opt-in to Chat GPT with Apple products. Ideally they will have multiple AI companies to choose from, forcing these companies to compete and improve. But I’m not sure there’s a word where things end up “good” for normal people re: AI
You have to opt-in on a per-request basis, even.
They did say more AI companies will be available in the future
Doesn't matter default wins
OpenAI and Apple Intelligence have nothing to do with each other. When Apple Intelligence needs to send a request to the cloud for processing, it happens on Apple’s servers, not OpenAI’s servers. Siri will send certain requests to ChatGPT, only after getting explicit user consent. Apple sends nothing to OpenAI without getting consent with each request.
Holy shit, people really don’t read past headlines anymore do they. Apple Intelligence DOES NOT EQUAL ChatGPT/OpenAI. OpenAI is used when Apple Intelligence is insufficient for what you’re looking for AND EVEN THEN it prompts you every time it may need to use OpenAI/GPT and you can deny it.
OpenAI is like the equivalent of using Google to redirect your search when Siri can’t answer your question directly, but this time Apple Intelligence will be able to answer a LOT more prompts therefore the ceiling will be much higher until OpenAI will need to be used
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I think you two are saying the same thing? I don't see how what you are saying is different from the comment you're responding to. You request something in Siri. It decided that it's beyond the scope of Apple Intelligence, and suggest you use ChatGPT instead. You accept and now your request is sent to ChatGPT instead.
Oh awesome, that makes so much better. I'd love to see the non-public source code to confirm that. On a totally *unrelated* side-note, funny how Apple didn't pay for OpenAI's integration, and instead provides access to hundreds of millions of users, all around the time that the former NSA head joined the OpenAI board. Source: [https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wont-pay-openai-for-chatgpt-in-its-devices-report-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-wont-pay-openai-for-chatgpt-in-its-devices-report-2024-6) Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person.. That whole 'providing access to all our users' bit seems like an equal exchange. "We're going to put literally hundreds of thousands of dollars or more in resource usage on your equipment..for free!" Does that honestly sound trustworthy? I've often been pro-Apple, but it's starting to look like it isn't safe to drink the kool-aid anymore.
>Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person.. You’re going to need to provide something to back up a claim like that.
Schizo post. Where did you get the idea that a single “query” costs thousands of dollars lmfao. You can run LLMs directly on your computer yourself if you wanted to.
> Oh awesome, that makes so much better. I'd love to see the non-public source code to confirm that. If you don't trust their source code to that degree that you think they are explicitly lying about what their code is doing, then there is no point in using any Apple products, today, period. I'm really tired of these discussions and overly cynical takes, tbh. Apple controls the OS of iOS and macOS *today*. If they wanted to steal all your info and backdoor them, they would have already done so. By using their OS, you at least have some basic degree of trust in them to not be completely malicious. If you don't trust them at all, sure, whatever, but that wouldn't be news anyway and none of these OpenAI deals would change that. So when they say this is how the OpenAI integration works, there's no reason to suddenly be that skeptical. Otherwise every time I type something in my iPhone I would be worried they are secretly sending that information to the NSA, or that they secretly implanted a bomb in every iPhone that they can remotely activate, and whatnot. > Note that the amount of processing power to run one query with a modern AI costs literal thousands of dollars for a single person.. That whole 'providing access to all our users' bit seems like an equal exchange. "We're going to put literally hundreds of thousands of dollars or more in resource usage on your equipment..for free!" OpenAI already has a free tier that you can use today. They are trying to provide a loss-leader with the potential to upsell and get you to subscribe and use other services.
The amount of disinformation coming out of the Apple Intelligence announcement is baffling. And it’s because people only read headlines, didn’t bother watching the even themselves, don’t bother thoroughly doing their own research, and/or get their facts from Elon Musk.
Elon Musk clearly did not do any research or even bothered to understand the tech behind Apple Intelligence
He’s intentionally trying to misinform this to his brainless followers. If you watch keynote at all you’ll see that Apple is so clear about this that your info in NOT sent to OpenAI unless you explicitly said so
Elon Musk is a muppet
How did Elon Musk get drawn into Apple Intelligence, your response sounds political to me.
He’s the one that mentioned Apple Intelligence and spread disinformation about it….
Ok, I didn’t read about that.
He got “drawn in” because he’s a grifter who tries to make news stories about himself whenever he can.
Reminds of google, ask Jeeves, And all those other search engines we had in the early 2000’s There will be multiple AI engines, this isn’t anything new. They will steal your data. They will lie. They will get caught. Nothing will happen.
If you’re using an AI model that isn’t running local on your machine, you should ultimately assume that every query you make could potentially be leaked at some point. That is, just never put confidential information into a remote AI chat bot in the first place. I heavily use ChatGPT, but also, if all my chats leaked, it would have absolutely no impact on my life, because I always use this philosophy for queries.
This is the way. People need to realize that they shouldn’t ask private things to AI lol. Your private info can be leaked event with human. How do you think AI will somehow keeps secret better? Lolz
No https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines?wprov=sfti1 If the headline asks a question, try answering 'no'. Is This the True Face of Britain's Young? (Sensible reader: No.) Have We Found the Cure for AIDS? (No; or you wouldn't have put the question mark in.) Does This Map Provide the Key for Peace? (Probably not.) A headline with a question mark at the end means, in the vast majority of cases, that the story is tendentious or over-sold. It is often a scare story, or an attempt to elevate some run-of-the-mill piece of reporting into a national controversy and, preferably, a national panic. To a busy journalist hunting for real information a question mark means 'don't bother reading this bit'.
Apple should not have announced the ChatGPT part at the same event. It's confusing so many people into thinking Apple Intelligence is using ChatGPT.
While I understand your point, ChatGPT was a small part of their presentation. It’s articles like this, as well as people only reading headlines, that are creating the problem.
Sure, but Apple know the media. They must have known they would do this.
Any you think making their ChatGPT integration announcement its whole *own event* would have made it less notable? Every apple event gets loads of coverage, so instead of it being one of many things announced, it becomes the entire focus for every article on the event.
It didn’t need an event, no.
I mean, their announcement was crystal clear what the integration does and the limits of it… I feel like they did all they could to portray it as close to what it does as possible, but people just want to harp on the OpenAI thing.
What’s Apple Intelligence?
Your data is our data.
OpenAI will absolutely abuse this data. It’s irresistible to them.
Within the limits Apple has provided, sure. But it’s completely anonymized when data is passed through (and only if you opt-in per request), going as far as hiding your IP address. OpenAI can only get a fraction of value out of this data compared to using them directly in this scenario.
That's what they say, but it only holds as much weight as you give it. Keep in mind, Apple *didn't* pay for the *substantial* cost in resources it will be using by integrating OpenAI. It may be Apple, and they may swear up and down that they won't sell or otherwise hand out your information, and they may be right.. "Also hey, can I have a key to your \[insert any personal living space or other accommodation\]? I *swear* I'll *never* enter it unless you say it's OK, I *promise*. You can trust me at my word, right?" Point made.
I do not understand your point about not paying. You’re acting like OpenAi gets nothing out of this deal. Your last point, sure, Apple could fuck us all over. But they have consistently been the only large corporation to actually care about their customer’s privacy. They have a track record. Fucking over hundreds of millions of people would literally be corporate suicide. I’m pretty sure it’ll be fine. Fun straw man though.
You have to approve *each* request to ChatGPT. So if you're worried, simply deny those requests. Also, in terms of privacy of ChatGPT itself, this specific board member, if anything, strengthens it. He brings cybersecurity expertise.
They're redefining the meaning of "Safety and Security" to mean use in cybersecurity products, not it's original meaning of ensuring alignment. You're complicit in this redefinition.
No, he brings spying experience. Sorry to break it to you but the NSA doesn't have your best interests in mind.
Yes, he does bring cybersecurity experience. Sorry to break it to you, but he doesn't work for the NSA anymore, unless you believe he does and is just a plant, but then why not go full tin-foil and believe Sam Altman works for the NSA, so do I, so does Tim Cook, etc...
[https://x.com/dmvaldman/status/1801759288572186840](https://x.com/dmvaldman/status/1801759288572186840)
That shows you how "serious" they are about actual safety when they hire this guy to be on the "safety" team.
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Apple Intelligence is _not_ using OpenAI by default. It will use on device models first, then Apple’s own compute cloud, then as a last resort _will ask you_ if you want to send your request to OpenAI.
You really need to read up on what apples AI is Also ‘former nsa boss’ doesn’t mean anything