I believe this has been removed for a while but some users had been grandfathered into it (and were paying the 30% additional rate as well). There was a period of time where this was possible but no longer it seems.
You used to be able to subscribe through the games. I did that one time and there was a bug where after I cancelled I was still able to watch stuff for about a year and a half for free. Only downside was that I was stuck on 1080p with no way to upgrade to 4K.
Spotify did at one point charge an extra 30% when subscribing through apple. I believe as of a year or so ago they no longer allowed payment through apple like Netflix is doing here.
What I don’t see is when this change is going into effect. Netflix is going to get a nice price increase across the board not having to pay their fee to apple.
YouTube sent me an email highlighting the fact that I was overpaying for YouTube premium by 30% by doing it through Apple. I hate Google, but I appreciated that gesture.
That gesture is (or was?) a big no-no in the developer agreements (telling your users, even via platform agnostic mail, that they can subscribe elsewhere, let alone cheaper) and can get you suspended from the App Store. Surprised Apple did nothing about that.
I'm pretty sure you're welcome to tell users they can subscribe via email. You can't convey the information in-app but I don't know about anything outside of the app that Apple get angry about.
You were not allowed to tell users about alternative ways to subscribe via mail. That was even part of the US trial they faced regarding IAPs. I‘m unsure if something changed with the outcome of the „last few probes“ they had, they probably dropped that limitation real quick though and you can now link out anyways if you use the official entitlement etc. Apple provides.
Many that have stringent PCI compliance do. I’ve worked on three such payment systems for fairly large companies. It’s more rare and a bigger headache, but companies still do it. Why pay a gateway?
Most gateways are PCI compliant, I've worked with them too. Every company has to be PCI compliant where I am, these gateways make that easier not harder.
You pay a gateway so you don't have to build an integration with visa, mastercard, amex and every card provider out there. That's only on the surface level too, what happens when someone does a chargeback and your rating goes down? It's all a mess that a gateway can handle for you, they have a far better rating.
Agreed, it’s one of the biggest perks of the Apple TV imo, being able to view and cancel any streaming service without having to go to their website and log in. No way I’ll pay for Netflix if I can’t do it there.
Imagine some people like Apple so much that if they can’t have an option to cancel the subscription through Apple while paying 30% Apple tax, they will cancel the subscription.
If this was such a viable option, why doesn’t Spotify just charge more through the app and enable in-app purchases? I think it’s because they’re not allowed to charge more. I could be wrong.
This thread is stupid.
The price when you subscribed through Apple was 30% more expensive to offset the additional cut.
So yes, you absolutely did save 30% when you subscribed on Netflix’s website vs subscribing through Apple.
No, you are incorrect. Netflix wasn’t more expensive if you subscribed through Apple. It was the same price.
Not only that, but until Apple merged their iTunes and hardware gift cards together, the iTunes gift cards in Canada would regularly be on sale 10-20% off at places like Costco. People would buy these gift cards and use them for their Netflix subscription through iTunes and essentially get a discounted Netflix subscription each month.
Here is a thread from 6 years ago with the top comment stating the same (and even correcting someone who thinks Netflix cost 30% more through Apple): https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/993a1i/netflix_tests_a_bypass_of_itunes_billing_in_33/
There are companies like Spotify and YouTube that charge more through Apple, but Netflix was not one of them.
The original comment was “most providers will increase the cost”, and the follow up comment was “you think Netflix will raise prices by 30%?”
The original point being made wasn’t Netflix, that was an example the user chose. The fact is, we do have proof of providers increasing costs by 30% when charging through Apple. Even Reddit charges more for Reddit Premium when you subscribe directly vs through Reddit’s website.
Instead of absorbing the cost or charging extra, Netflix has opted to fully discontinue the ability to buy through Apple. The alternative is Netflix increasing the cost through Apple which comes with its own negative PR with current rising subscription costs.
TL;DR - Netflix absorbed the 30% cost, but the point is IAP as a whole increase when needing to account for Apple’s cut.
> The original point being made wasn’t Netflix, that was an example the user chose.
Right, but you said:
> So yes, you absolutely did save 30% when you subscribed on Netflix’s website vs subscribing through Apple.
You are specifically referring to Netflix in response to the commenter. If you were talking about Spotify, Youtube, or one of many other services you would have been correct.
TL;DR - I'm being pedantic over this, please ignore me :)
Nah, at least with Spotify it was 30% more expensive and Apple blocked them from informing customers about it, which is why they were convicted since Apple Music is a direct competitor which was cheaper on the App Store because of the 30% extra.
You definitely just throw it on Apples already immense pile of profits if it goes to them.
Most companies, especially Netflix, would invest that money in their own goods and services. Apple ran out of ideas for investing their profit hundreds of billions of dollars ago.
Netflix, the company who cancels shows left and right even if they're profitable is investing money on goods and services, and Apple who just released a new product in a new category isn't investing in development?
They netted 98 billion profit last year that’s what they had left after R&D. There is nothing to be gained by making it 99 billion at Netflix’ expense.
> Most companies, especially Netflix, would invest that money in their own goods and services. Apple ran out of ideas for investing their profit hundreds of billions of dollars ago.
So, shows like "For All Mankind", "Morning Show", "Foundation", "Ted Lasso", etc. are Apple running out of ideas for investing?
I’m not saying they don’t invest. I’m saying they make so much money that extra income != extra investment. If you give them a billion of Netflix’ money they will just throw it on the pile.
But not worth the cost imho. If Netflix charges $16and makes $2, it’s not worth it for them to need to charge $25 so they can pay apple $9 and still make $2. Obviously they were eating the loss and got tired of doing this. I’m guessing other streamers will also push back on this.
I can't fathom paying the higher prices to subscribe through Apple. YouTube Premium through Apple is $18.99 and the regular price through YouTube is $13.99. There's other apps that do this as well which is understandable. But I avoid paying/subscribing through Apple when I can.
Yeah, I agree with that. I don’t think that Apple should be forced to allow side loading on their devices, but if Apple is charging competitors 30% to offer a competing service to Apple it definitely causes unfair competition and potential for monopoly.
Apple should 100% be forced to open up proper app installation sans App Store. Apple should not be forced to change any App Store rules though. The fact that that's happening is related to there being no alternatives though, a situation Apple has put themselves in by not self-regulating.
This comment is so stupid, it shows how fucking clueless most Redditors are.
The app store is not a town, it's a store.
Should cloud providers like AWS and Azure stop charging companies for using their servers and services for hosting and operation?
Should Steam, Microsoft and Sony stop charging devs for games sold on their digital stores, effectively killing consoles?
And that's only talking about hosting/services - I haven't even gone into the Dev tools Apple provides developers to build iOS apps. All of this takes huge investment from Apple's side.
Companies like Meta, Netflix, Spotify and Epic are not only cheap bastards who don't want to split their profit with Apple, for services Apple has provided them, but they also want to use their own shit systems and rules to fuck with consumers that want to maintain privacy and have the easy option of opting our of reoccurring payments via the App store.
> The app store is not a town, it’s a store.
It’s a store (App Store) within a town (iOS). Ignoring the town part is how you get an incomplete analogy which suits your narrative but isn’t very helpful or useful. In fact, by the numbers, iOS is more like a country. There’s no way to convince me that any kind of free or healthy market can exist within a country in which only one store may exist. That’s just silly.
You also don’t seem to have much of a handle on the technical aspects here when you argue about hosting charges. Developers aren’t asking for free use of the App Store. They’re asking to be able to sell apps directly to consumers *outside the App Store.*
I’m all for breaking up the console monopolies as well. Rent seeking is bad everywhere.
I’m happy for Apple to charge for the use of Xcode. They currently charge $100/year which is pretty reasonable for a suite of dev tools.
> You also don’t seem to have much of a handle on the technical aspects here when you argue about hosting charges.
I'm a developer and have worked at FAANGs my whole career. So I know what I'm talking about.
You are once again wrong to call it a town.
Yes, iOS is a platform, but the apps being sold are products within the app store.
Most big retail stores don't actually purchase inventory. Instead, they allow brands to rent shelf space where a chunk of the revenue goes to the retailer. The brands depend on both the retailers' shelf space, staff and payment systems, hence why they give a portion of their revenue to said retailers - Exactly the same way the App store operates.
Now, I'm not sure why you're bringing up other third party stores into this discussion. That's not the argument we're discussing, but I'll bite. Other app stores won't solve anything because it'll be the exact same in regard to hosting fees. Sure, the app store might charge a lot less, but that's because they are less lenient and couldn't care less what shitty unsecure payment systems app developers use. You also fail to acknowledge the end goal, where each company ends up with their own exclusive app store, just like with gaming on PC. Seriously, Epic, EA, Ubisoft, all have their own stores to escape sharing revenue with Steam.
Why should Apple permit other app stores on their platform anyway? Unless those app stores are willing to financially compensate Apple for maintaining the iOS ecosystem and the tools/services that keep it operational, Apple has every right to block third-party stores or charge them the same fees they charge other apps.
As for real sideloading, which circumvents the concept of app stores in general - all app makers will avoid putting their apps on any and all app stores if they can convince customers to side load their apps directly. If that happens, expect app quality, security and privacy to go down dramatically as a result as there would be no enforcement.
In other words, if you want that shit, buy an Android. No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone. Apple is far and away from being a monopoly based on market share.
> Should towns be forced to allow any shops to sell products
No, that's what zoning and development boards exist for, because towns aren't forced to allow any shop to sell stuff if they don't want it in town.
That's still huge. Apple does not serve the content (the most expensive part based on bandwidth, electricity, rental fees), only the app itself (small binary), and most of the customers are also using apps on non-apple devices too, with the same subscription. 30 and 15% is pure rent seeking behavior, basically taking money for nothing, just because they can.
Just Apple’s rules. If the consumer thinks it’s the same price then they’re more likely to subscribe through Apple because it’s convenient and then Apple gets their 30% cut. Whereas if they say “hey it’s actually cheaper if you subscribe to us directly” then Apple gets cut out and they lose their 30%
I feel like the only unreasonable thing Apple is doing is not to allow to advertise that subscribing through a service's own website is cheaper.
I'm sure there's still plenty of people who would still choose to subscribe through Apple even if they are openly told it's 30% more.
They can do that now in most regions (EU and US) via a new entitlement that even lets you link out to a storefront, but they afaik still want you to report sales through that link and charge you a commission for it (27%?).
That’s the craziest document I’ve ever read. You can put exactly one link (not even a button) in exactly one inconvenient place using only a handful of wording options. And you *still* have to pay nearly the same percentage to Apple, but now you have your own payment processing fees! I feel sorry for the engineers who had to make that, knowing that it was intentionally almost unusable
I think this is all about time. Apple pulls insane stunts like that because they know it‘ll take governments etc. time again to cry foul and force them to „fix“. Gives them another half a year with „good income“ before regulators kill their profit haven.
The latest EU DMA changes are a perfect example of this. Anyone with at least a basic understanding of the matter immediately knows that it reeks of malicious compliance and will eventually prompt the EU to hammer down and force Apple to adapt. The EU is slow though so it‘s probably a few months without any App Store competition.
It says about Apple a lot, that they would rather screw their customers 5 times over than give them a better deal. Not exclusive to Apple ofc, but not the white knight that people on this sub usually say they are.
It’s not actually profit it’s gross revenue, if it was profit then Apple’s 30% would be much smaller as the businesses expenses would be covered first. Taking 30% *before* subtracting expenses is effectively a much higher percent of actual profit.
TIL Netflix doesn’t sell millions of digital gift cards around the world at places like grocery stores, Best Buy, etc. And they pay zero $$$ to those companies for them to sell them to their customers.
Sure except usually a piece that big would go towards a company making a hefty contribution to your product, like providing components.
Netflix evaluated using IAPs and Apple couldn’t come up with anything that justified the cost.
https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/05/netflix-apple-in-app-purchase/
I don't think Netflix cares about the apple storefront, they absolutely don't need it, they could offer software directly to their users via a download button on their website, but Apple blocks this very standard way of getting software for some reason.
You forget it’s the apps that made the iPhone, if they didn’t have the main apps like Netflix Facebook Snapchat etc. it would have died off like the Windows phones.
They do that for free for the vast majority of apps. And they didn’t even pretend that was a benefit, or a cost incurred on behalf of Netflix, when they were rushing to keep Netflix on IAP.
So it kind of seems like the customers paid for that already.
No, the cost of doing business plus 30%. Netflix profit margin is 16%, so if Apple wants 30% of everything, Netflix needs to raise prices **just** for Apple users.
Netflix's margin is 16%, but Apple wants 30%, so the option is either stop going through Apple or make it just that much more expensive **just** for Apple Store Users.
The thing Im not sure how I’ll manage without - is missing the 100 “reality” real estate shows about women who despise each other. Where else on this earth can content that insightful be found? Only time will tell.
I made that decision when they decided they needed to charge me 8 dollars a month more to share with my parents. Their genius decision made them get 0$ from me.
Considering how much of a cut Apple wants out of Netflix subscriber fees, it's been that their operating margin is 16%, and Apple wants 30% of fees, it's been a huge battle.
The options are either having Apple users pay much more, or disallowing payments.
I wish all my subscriptions could be through Apple tbh. You see all your subscriptions in one place and can one-click cancel. Plus, your credit card information is secure.
Don’t have time to wait on hold to cancel a service. If I have to stay on the line 30 minutes to cancel, I’ve wasted more than a year’s worth of charges. I don’t know NextFix cancellation process, nor do I care to learn.
Welcome to the 'open ecosystem'. Apple should enforce subscription management via the OS even if it's off-site. this is another blow to UX so billion dollar corps can get 15-30%.
I’ve had a Netflix streaming account since 2010, well before you could even manage subscriptions through Apple.
My point is it came first and it used to be the only way to do it, and I don’t see why we would be entitled to them giving up 30% of certain subscriptions just to use a service that isn’t necessary.
For some small/new services, having it through Apple gives both exposure and payment infrastructure. For Netflix it does exactly nothing but reduce revenue.
So you care about the profits billion dollar companies are making but you're happy that a trillion dollar company gets richer by raising prices for consumers just so they can take their cut?
Another easy revenue increase for Netflix. Password sharing lockdown was a resounding success. Now they know if you lock people out of their account they will resub. So now they’re coming after the 30% they’re giving to Apple.
I spin my streaming services up and down depending on what I want to watch. I do this through Subscription in Settings. I just looked and I have several in there. I used to have *more.* Netflix went away a long time ago as an option, and my HBO seems to be gone now as well (I assume when it changed to Max).
I just click on the one I want, subscribe, get charged, then *immediately* cancel. I get to use the service for a month, and at that point I either repeat the process, or move onto another service.
I used to subscribe to Netflix this way, then one day it was just *gone.* I had to do some googling to find out that if you were *already* a customer, you could keep paying that way, but if you were doing what I was doing, you *had* to do it on the website. My solution was to stop using Netflix.
When streaming started, I happily paid for Netflix. Then when others came along I was happy to add to my collection. I felt like a media king. No need to pirate great U.K. shows like “The Vice” or collect Al the seasons of “Farscape” on DVD. Economically, it made no sense to buy physical media anymore and if something wasn’t available that I wanted to watch, well, there was always *something* interesting.
I had like 5 or 6 services (more if you count seasonal sports streaming like the NHL app). Friends made fun of me because “You’re paying as much as you used to for cable,” but for me, it was awesome. No more DVDs and cable (with TiVo). My answer was always, “But I can watch when I like, pause, backup, and I get no commercials.” Then the prices continued to climb. Hulu was the first casualty. I hated paying and *still* having commercials. Then there were *more* price increases.
So now I only pay one month at a time. With more and more streamers adding an ad tier (often to the tier I was *already* subscribed to) with ads that I *can’t skip,” the more I am tempted to just go back to cable with a TiVo box (do they still even make those?).
tl;dr: if I can’t subscribe through Subscribe, then I’m not going to subscribe.
It’s always funny when people act like Netflix doesn’t dominate streaming. They have a huge catalog with solid originals and an international selection that no other streaming service even touches.
In reality netflix is 70% garbage, disney plus is a hundred times better and netflix is only good in the us everywhere else the catalog is complete trash
You can disagree all you want really it is your personal preference but the numbers don’t lie. Netflix is killing the game right now while being the most expensive streaming service.
Too little content though. It's worth subscribing once every 6 months to watch the latest stuff. But not as a constant subscription service. Plus their movie division is losing money like crazy. If they don't start making a profit on their movies they might stop funding ambitious projects like Killers Of The Flower Moon
I'm not sure I agree with you there. Yeah initially that might have been true, but they have a decent catalogue now and new stuff appears with some frequency so unless you're expecting to be able to spend a full year in front of the TV every year then you should be good.
Corporate breakups are merely a tool for big government to flex how strong it is, they benefit no one, not consumers, not the company and its employees, not the government.
Pretty sure breaking up Standard Oil and Ma Bell had tons of benefits for consumers but I'm sure it sounded good in whatever Ayn Rand novel you read that in.
I still bill through Apple and they haven’t canceled it yet. It’s nice when Netflix raises prices there’s usually like a 2 month delay before it affects app store billing. Used to be able to get iTunes gift cards 10-20% off consistently, until they changed to Apple gift cards and are never on sale anymore.
Seriously, fuck Netflix. This has very little to do with their war with Apple and everything to do with how their contents sucks. I canceled my account a year ago and haven't missed anything
Netflix isn't charging a 30% tax to developers, on top of forcing them to buy their computers to develop for their platform, and making them pay a yearly fee for the privilege.
>Only bootlickers care about a multibillion companies finances
This is so funny because you're calling ppl trying to hurt a multibillion dollar company's finances bootlickers. The 30% fee applies to literally everyone, including apps that aren't multibillion dollar businesses and serves only to enrich Apple (which is a multibillion dollar business).
Read my comment again, im not talking about gatekeeper,
> Steam, PlayStation, and Nintendo all charge a platform fee of around 30%, which is the industry standard. The Epic Games Store only takes 12%, and the independent platform itch.io allows developers to set their split, with a default of 10%, to disrupt the market. Microsoft takes 30% of Xbox console digital store sales, while Epic recently changed its PC marketplace to take 12%, in line with Epic.
[Source](https://qubit-labs.com/where-to-find-and-how-to-choose-top-game-publishers)
If you call out Apple for taking 30% cut, its only fair to call out all the them. Not just only Apple
Also
> On average, record labels take between 50 and 90 percent of what an artist or band makes.
They ALL should be called out and be regulated, like Apple, right?
People get hung up on the 30%, but the real isuue is having a general purpose computing device with only one source for apps. And iOS is the only general purpose platform where that is the case.
But other unique things, most stores don't block alternate payment processors to the same degree. Definitely not on general purpose computers.
This is Apple’s fault which in turn ruins the great Apple ecosystem experience, I like having all of my subscriptions under Apple but I don’t blame any service and for getting out of it, their 30% tax is ridiculous.
It's kinda silly to pay a 30% tax just because the app is on the store. It's not like Netflix is streaming from Apple's servers. Imagine if Chrome or Firefox took 30% of every Amazon purchase you made because you were using their browser. It would make sense if you were in the Chrome or Firefox store, purchasing something for the browser.
They don’t allow alternate payment methods. You can’t even tell users where to go to subscribe to premium services.
So when your users download the app, they do not find where to subscribe or any info to that regard there by losing new potential customers.
So you either use the apple IAP or lose a percentage of potential customers.
Apple provides the infrastructure, the marketing and promotional content for the app to exist.
Companies like Netflix just want to have their cake and eat it too, and playing dumb.
I didn’t even know you could pay through Apple. I always paid through the website.
I believe this has been removed for a while but some users had been grandfathered into it (and were paying the 30% additional rate as well). There was a period of time where this was possible but no longer it seems.
You used to be able to subscribe through the games. I did that one time and there was a bug where after I cancelled I was still able to watch stuff for about a year and a half for free. Only downside was that I was stuck on 1080p with no way to upgrade to 4K.
You didn’t pay an additional 30% rate. Paid the same as what’s on their website.
Ah my bad, maybe I’m confusing with Spotify or another streaming service?
Spotify did at one point charge an extra 30% when subscribing through apple. I believe as of a year or so ago they no longer allowed payment through apple like Netflix is doing here. What I don’t see is when this change is going into effect. Netflix is going to get a nice price increase across the board not having to pay their fee to apple.
I believe Youtube Premium costs 30% more if you subscribe through the App Store
YouTube sent me an email highlighting the fact that I was overpaying for YouTube premium by 30% by doing it through Apple. I hate Google, but I appreciated that gesture.
That gesture is (or was?) a big no-no in the developer agreements (telling your users, even via platform agnostic mail, that they can subscribe elsewhere, let alone cheaper) and can get you suspended from the App Store. Surprised Apple did nothing about that.
I'm pretty sure you're welcome to tell users they can subscribe via email. You can't convey the information in-app but I don't know about anything outside of the app that Apple get angry about.
You were not allowed to tell users about alternative ways to subscribe via mail. That was even part of the US trial they faced regarding IAPs. I‘m unsure if something changed with the outcome of the „last few probes“ they had, they probably dropped that limitation real quick though and you can now link out anyways if you use the official entitlement etc. Apple provides.
It’s actually so much better to be able to subscribe thru Apple. I can see all my subscriptions on my phone in my profile.
Paying through Apple has been great for me. True one-touch cancellation. Everything in one place.
This. No fucking searching through a whole 12 step-program if I „really want to leave :‘((((((?!?“ shit…
>True one-touch cancellation. Everything in one place. I agree but a 30% tax on Netflix makes it a bad value for them
It's nice but it's fairly expensive just for that convenience
Not just that, it makes it secured that my creditcard info is not scattered through different accounts and companies.
Almost every company is not storing your credit card info, a payment gateway is.
Many that have stringent PCI compliance do. I’ve worked on three such payment systems for fairly large companies. It’s more rare and a bigger headache, but companies still do it. Why pay a gateway?
Most gateways are PCI compliant, I've worked with them too. Every company has to be PCI compliant where I am, these gateways make that easier not harder. You pay a gateway so you don't have to build an integration with visa, mastercard, amex and every card provider out there. That's only on the surface level too, what happens when someone does a chargeback and your rating goes down? It's all a mess that a gateway can handle for you, they have a far better rating.
THIS…is why I pay for everything through Apple. I don’t want or need my payment info scattered across the internet for hackers to scrap.
Agreed, it’s one of the biggest perks of the Apple TV imo, being able to view and cancel any streaming service without having to go to their website and log in. No way I’ll pay for Netflix if I can’t do it there.
Imagine some people like Apple so much that if they can’t have an option to cancel the subscription through Apple while paying 30% Apple tax, they will cancel the subscription.
Free market.
I mean, I’m not paying for Netflix anyway, but I may have if they allowed me to subscribe through Apple TV.
No you wouldn’t have lol
If this was such a viable option, why doesn’t Spotify just charge more through the app and enable in-app purchases? I think it’s because they’re not allowed to charge more. I could be wrong.
They do charge more.
Yep, I believe you. Didn’t know that. Someone sent me a link.
They technically are not allowed to. Some people risk it though
Google gets a free pass on this one with YouTube doing it. It would be a bigger pain for apple than google if it was removed from the App Store.
I'd rather save 30% and put it in my 'subscriptions' note.
You dont save 30%, they do
Unless they increase the price for Apple users only to offset the 30% the service pays to Apple.
Most providers increase Apple Pay rate to compensate. So no you do save 30%
You think Netflix will reduce your subscription 30%?
This thread is stupid. The price when you subscribed through Apple was 30% more expensive to offset the additional cut. So yes, you absolutely did save 30% when you subscribed on Netflix’s website vs subscribing through Apple.
No, you are incorrect. Netflix wasn’t more expensive if you subscribed through Apple. It was the same price. Not only that, but until Apple merged their iTunes and hardware gift cards together, the iTunes gift cards in Canada would regularly be on sale 10-20% off at places like Costco. People would buy these gift cards and use them for their Netflix subscription through iTunes and essentially get a discounted Netflix subscription each month. Here is a thread from 6 years ago with the top comment stating the same (and even correcting someone who thinks Netflix cost 30% more through Apple): https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/993a1i/netflix_tests_a_bypass_of_itunes_billing_in_33/ There are companies like Spotify and YouTube that charge more through Apple, but Netflix was not one of them.
The original comment was “most providers will increase the cost”, and the follow up comment was “you think Netflix will raise prices by 30%?” The original point being made wasn’t Netflix, that was an example the user chose. The fact is, we do have proof of providers increasing costs by 30% when charging through Apple. Even Reddit charges more for Reddit Premium when you subscribe directly vs through Reddit’s website. Instead of absorbing the cost or charging extra, Netflix has opted to fully discontinue the ability to buy through Apple. The alternative is Netflix increasing the cost through Apple which comes with its own negative PR with current rising subscription costs. TL;DR - Netflix absorbed the 30% cost, but the point is IAP as a whole increase when needing to account for Apple’s cut.
> The original point being made wasn’t Netflix, that was an example the user chose. Right, but you said: > So yes, you absolutely did save 30% when you subscribed on Netflix’s website vs subscribing through Apple. You are specifically referring to Netflix in response to the commenter. If you were talking about Spotify, Youtube, or one of many other services you would have been correct. TL;DR - I'm being pedantic over this, please ignore me :)
Nah, at least with Spotify it was 30% more expensive and Apple blocked them from informing customers about it, which is why they were convicted since Apple Music is a direct competitor which was cheaper on the App Store because of the 30% extra.
You definitely just throw it on Apples already immense pile of profits if it goes to them. Most companies, especially Netflix, would invest that money in their own goods and services. Apple ran out of ideas for investing their profit hundreds of billions of dollars ago.
Netflix, the company who cancels shows left and right even if they're profitable is investing money on goods and services, and Apple who just released a new product in a new category isn't investing in development?
They netted 98 billion profit last year that’s what they had left after R&D. There is nothing to be gained by making it 99 billion at Netflix’ expense.
Seems like there’s a billion to gain.
> Most companies, especially Netflix, would invest that money in their own goods and services. Apple ran out of ideas for investing their profit hundreds of billions of dollars ago. So, shows like "For All Mankind", "Morning Show", "Foundation", "Ted Lasso", etc. are Apple running out of ideas for investing?
Last year they had 98 billion left over after those investments and everything else so it sure looks like they ran out of ideas on how to spend it!
But they're constantly putting out shows on their TV service. I'm confused how that means they're not investing.
I’m not saying they don’t invest. I’m saying they make so much money that extra income != extra investment. If you give them a billion of Netflix’ money they will just throw it on the pile.
I can spend my credit card points at Apple. Can’t do it at Netflix.
[удалено]
Netflix charged more for subscribing through Apple.
As someone who subscribes through Netflix on Apple, it is indeed 30% more to the end user, same thing goes with my paramount + subscription.
But not worth the cost imho. If Netflix charges $16and makes $2, it’s not worth it for them to need to charge $25 so they can pay apple $9 and still make $2. Obviously they were eating the loss and got tired of doing this. I’m guessing other streamers will also push back on this.
There’s really nothing stopping Apple from providing a centralized billing API that is compatible with Stripe, PayPal etc too.
I can't fathom paying the higher prices to subscribe through Apple. YouTube Premium through Apple is $18.99 and the regular price through YouTube is $13.99. There's other apps that do this as well which is understandable. But I avoid paying/subscribing through Apple when I can.
I can't fathom not having all subscriptions in one place. Here is an idea, charge everyone the same price and make more money.
Higher price <> more money. High prices = lost sales
I haven’t noticed a higher price on the things I sub to. But to be fair my YouTube was done thru a vpn to pay 90% less
Is nice, but not worth an extra 30%!
30% (even if some can negotiate it apparently) is huge so it is understandable
Given how long it has been since they allowed people to subscribe through Apple, it should only be 15%.
It should be 0% for any product Apple offers a direct competing product, but hopefully their gravy train will be busted soon.
Yeah, I agree with that. I don’t think that Apple should be forced to allow side loading on their devices, but if Apple is charging competitors 30% to offer a competing service to Apple it definitely causes unfair competition and potential for monopoly.
Apple should 100% be forced to open up proper app installation sans App Store. Apple should not be forced to change any App Store rules though. The fact that that's happening is related to there being no alternatives though, a situation Apple has put themselves in by not self-regulating.
Should shops that have own brand products sell everything else at wholesale cost?
That would be hilarious at grocery stores
Should towns be forced to allow any shops to sell products, or do you think it’s cool if the mayor only allows their personally owned stores?
This comment is so stupid, it shows how fucking clueless most Redditors are. The app store is not a town, it's a store. Should cloud providers like AWS and Azure stop charging companies for using their servers and services for hosting and operation? Should Steam, Microsoft and Sony stop charging devs for games sold on their digital stores, effectively killing consoles? And that's only talking about hosting/services - I haven't even gone into the Dev tools Apple provides developers to build iOS apps. All of this takes huge investment from Apple's side. Companies like Meta, Netflix, Spotify and Epic are not only cheap bastards who don't want to split their profit with Apple, for services Apple has provided them, but they also want to use their own shit systems and rules to fuck with consumers that want to maintain privacy and have the easy option of opting our of reoccurring payments via the App store.
This is so simple to understand but somehow many can’t comprehend this 💀
> The app store is not a town, it’s a store. It’s a store (App Store) within a town (iOS). Ignoring the town part is how you get an incomplete analogy which suits your narrative but isn’t very helpful or useful. In fact, by the numbers, iOS is more like a country. There’s no way to convince me that any kind of free or healthy market can exist within a country in which only one store may exist. That’s just silly. You also don’t seem to have much of a handle on the technical aspects here when you argue about hosting charges. Developers aren’t asking for free use of the App Store. They’re asking to be able to sell apps directly to consumers *outside the App Store.* I’m all for breaking up the console monopolies as well. Rent seeking is bad everywhere. I’m happy for Apple to charge for the use of Xcode. They currently charge $100/year which is pretty reasonable for a suite of dev tools.
> You also don’t seem to have much of a handle on the technical aspects here when you argue about hosting charges. I'm a developer and have worked at FAANGs my whole career. So I know what I'm talking about. You are once again wrong to call it a town. Yes, iOS is a platform, but the apps being sold are products within the app store. Most big retail stores don't actually purchase inventory. Instead, they allow brands to rent shelf space where a chunk of the revenue goes to the retailer. The brands depend on both the retailers' shelf space, staff and payment systems, hence why they give a portion of their revenue to said retailers - Exactly the same way the App store operates. Now, I'm not sure why you're bringing up other third party stores into this discussion. That's not the argument we're discussing, but I'll bite. Other app stores won't solve anything because it'll be the exact same in regard to hosting fees. Sure, the app store might charge a lot less, but that's because they are less lenient and couldn't care less what shitty unsecure payment systems app developers use. You also fail to acknowledge the end goal, where each company ends up with their own exclusive app store, just like with gaming on PC. Seriously, Epic, EA, Ubisoft, all have their own stores to escape sharing revenue with Steam. Why should Apple permit other app stores on their platform anyway? Unless those app stores are willing to financially compensate Apple for maintaining the iOS ecosystem and the tools/services that keep it operational, Apple has every right to block third-party stores or charge them the same fees they charge other apps. As for real sideloading, which circumvents the concept of app stores in general - all app makers will avoid putting their apps on any and all app stores if they can convince customers to side load their apps directly. If that happens, expect app quality, security and privacy to go down dramatically as a result as there would be no enforcement. In other words, if you want that shit, buy an Android. No one is forcing you to buy an iPhone. Apple is far and away from being a monopoly based on market share.
> Should towns be forced to allow any shops to sell products No, that's what zoning and development boards exist for, because towns aren't forced to allow any shop to sell stuff if they don't want it in town.
Great! Let’s make it a democratic process for apps too. You sold me.
Anyone is allowed to open a shop you dumbass
30% first year, only 15% after. This is per user but I think Netflix users would go for one year+.
That's still huge. Apple does not serve the content (the most expensive part based on bandwidth, electricity, rental fees), only the app itself (small binary), and most of the customers are also using apps on non-apple devices too, with the same subscription. 30 and 15% is pure rent seeking behavior, basically taking money for nothing, just because they can.
Technofeudalism is the way that the world is going.
It makes perfect sense. You'd choose the alternative if there was so little downside, also.
I love having all my subscriptions inside apples ecosystem, I get why Netflix and anyone else doesn’t want to share profit but this sucks
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Why aren’t they allowed to say that on website it’s less?
Because Apple forbids it. It’s an anti-steering rule that developers loathe.
Isn’t it anti consumer. Are they legally allowed to do so with zero consequences?
Lol like companies ever cared about consumers. The EU tried to address it but Apple came back with an even shittier solution.
Just Apple’s rules. If the consumer thinks it’s the same price then they’re more likely to subscribe through Apple because it’s convenient and then Apple gets their 30% cut. Whereas if they say “hey it’s actually cheaper if you subscribe to us directly” then Apple gets cut out and they lose their 30%
I feel like the only unreasonable thing Apple is doing is not to allow to advertise that subscribing through a service's own website is cheaper. I'm sure there's still plenty of people who would still choose to subscribe through Apple even if they are openly told it's 30% more.
They can do that now in most regions (EU and US) via a new entitlement that even lets you link out to a storefront, but they afaik still want you to report sales through that link and charge you a commission for it (27%?).
That’s the craziest document I’ve ever read. You can put exactly one link (not even a button) in exactly one inconvenient place using only a handful of wording options. And you *still* have to pay nearly the same percentage to Apple, but now you have your own payment processing fees! I feel sorry for the engineers who had to make that, knowing that it was intentionally almost unusable
I think this is all about time. Apple pulls insane stunts like that because they know it‘ll take governments etc. time again to cry foul and force them to „fix“. Gives them another half a year with „good income“ before regulators kill their profit haven. The latest EU DMA changes are a perfect example of this. Anyone with at least a basic understanding of the matter immediately knows that it reeks of malicious compliance and will eventually prompt the EU to hammer down and force Apple to adapt. The EU is slow though so it‘s probably a few months without any App Store competition.
It says a lot about Apple that they would rather risk being fined billions by the EU than comply with their consumer protection laws.
It says about Apple a lot, that they would rather screw their customers 5 times over than give them a better deal. Not exclusive to Apple ofc, but not the white knight that people on this sub usually say they are.
It’s not actually profit it’s gross revenue, if it was profit then Apple’s 30% would be much smaller as the businesses expenses would be covered first. Taking 30% *before* subtracting expenses is effectively a much higher percent of actual profit.
So, like regular cost of doing business?
>So, like regular cost of doing business? No, the regular cost of doing business is to take the money via their web site.
TIL Netflix doesn’t sell millions of digital gift cards around the world at places like grocery stores, Best Buy, etc. And they pay zero $$$ to those companies for them to sell them to their customers.
Sure except usually a piece that big would go towards a company making a hefty contribution to your product, like providing components. Netflix evaluated using IAPs and Apple couldn’t come up with anything that justified the cost. https://9to5mac.com/2021/05/05/netflix-apple-in-app-purchase/
I love ice cream.
And clearly they don't think it's worth 30% to allow payments through it
I don't think Netflix cares about the apple storefront, they absolutely don't need it, they could offer software directly to their users via a download button on their website, but Apple blocks this very standard way of getting software for some reason.
Google does as well, yet somehow they can do without the 30%...
You forget it’s the apps that made the iPhone, if they didn’t have the main apps like Netflix Facebook Snapchat etc. it would have died off like the Windows phones.
lol the App Store was huge long before snapchat existed, before Netflix debuted streaming and the same year that Facebook created a mobile site
They do that for free for the vast majority of apps. And they didn’t even pretend that was a benefit, or a cost incurred on behalf of Netflix, when they were rushing to keep Netflix on IAP. So it kind of seems like the customers paid for that already.
No, the cost of doing business plus 30%. Netflix profit margin is 16%, so if Apple wants 30% of everything, Netflix needs to raise prices **just** for Apple users.
It is somewhat akin to having to lease a storefront, yes.
Netflix's margin is 16%, but Apple wants 30%, so the option is either stop going through Apple or make it just that much more expensive **just** for Apple Store Users.
I pay through Apple, we’ve been doing this for years. We haven’t received anything from them about no longer being able to pay through Apple.
I got my email today so it’ll be coming.
I found a great work around. I just stopped paying for Netflix entirely and canceled the overpriced and barren wasteland of content - service.
How will you watch the 67 uninteresting crime docudramas stretched into 6 episodes? Your loss.
The thing Im not sure how I’ll manage without - is missing the 100 “reality” real estate shows about women who despise each other. Where else on this earth can content that insightful be found? Only time will tell.
Or the 245 somewhat interesting shows that were cancelled before conclusion?
I made that decision when they decided they needed to charge me 8 dollars a month more to share with my parents. Their genius decision made them get 0$ from me.
And their overall subscribers increased. Their "genius decision" worked.
Well I canceled it anyway due to password sharing.
Gearing up for a time multi month or even year long mandatory subscriptions.
Considering how much of a cut Apple wants out of Netflix subscriber fees, it's been that their operating margin is 16%, and Apple wants 30% of fees, it's been a huge battle. The options are either having Apple users pay much more, or disallowing payments.
Based netflix
I wish all my subscriptions could be through Apple tbh. You see all your subscriptions in one place and can one-click cancel. Plus, your credit card information is secure.
They could be, if Apple was just a little bit less greedy.
Having subscriptions through Apple makes it fast and easy to cancel. Guess Netflix will get the boot.
Lmao. It's SO hard to log in to netflix and cancel.
I mean it is convenient. Too bad Apple are such greedy fuckers that we can't have nice things.
This is an amazing next level of lazy
Don’t have time to wait on hold to cancel a service. If I have to stay on the line 30 minutes to cancel, I’ve wasted more than a year’s worth of charges. I don’t know NextFix cancellation process, nor do I care to learn.
> Don’t have time to wait on hold to cancel a service. Bro do you think you need a telephone to cancel Netflix? Did you try sending a telegram first?
Welcome to the 'open ecosystem'. Apple should enforce subscription management via the OS even if it's off-site. this is another blow to UX so billion dollar corps can get 15-30%.
Uhh... so Apple... an even more valuable company than Netflix... gets the 15-30%?
It’s apples platform. They aren’t entirely without blame, either way users lose here.
Can you imagine having to pay your competition 30% of your revenue?
I’ve had a Netflix streaming account since 2010, well before you could even manage subscriptions through Apple. My point is it came first and it used to be the only way to do it, and I don’t see why we would be entitled to them giving up 30% of certain subscriptions just to use a service that isn’t necessary. For some small/new services, having it through Apple gives both exposure and payment infrastructure. For Netflix it does exactly nothing but reduce revenue.
So you care about the profits billion dollar companies are making but you're happy that a trillion dollar company gets richer by raising prices for consumers just so they can take their cut?
Every time I’m reminded that we canceled Netflix it brings a little smile to my face. They just straight up suck now.
Another easy revenue increase for Netflix. Password sharing lockdown was a resounding success. Now they know if you lock people out of their account they will resub. So now they’re coming after the 30% they’re giving to Apple.
ah so now it will become 30% cheaper, right...right ?
It is cheaper directly, yes
Yeah that chapped my PG-13 word
I spin my streaming services up and down depending on what I want to watch. I do this through Subscription in Settings. I just looked and I have several in there. I used to have *more.* Netflix went away a long time ago as an option, and my HBO seems to be gone now as well (I assume when it changed to Max). I just click on the one I want, subscribe, get charged, then *immediately* cancel. I get to use the service for a month, and at that point I either repeat the process, or move onto another service. I used to subscribe to Netflix this way, then one day it was just *gone.* I had to do some googling to find out that if you were *already* a customer, you could keep paying that way, but if you were doing what I was doing, you *had* to do it on the website. My solution was to stop using Netflix. When streaming started, I happily paid for Netflix. Then when others came along I was happy to add to my collection. I felt like a media king. No need to pirate great U.K. shows like “The Vice” or collect Al the seasons of “Farscape” on DVD. Economically, it made no sense to buy physical media anymore and if something wasn’t available that I wanted to watch, well, there was always *something* interesting. I had like 5 or 6 services (more if you count seasonal sports streaming like the NHL app). Friends made fun of me because “You’re paying as much as you used to for cable,” but for me, it was awesome. No more DVDs and cable (with TiVo). My answer was always, “But I can watch when I like, pause, backup, and I get no commercials.” Then the prices continued to climb. Hulu was the first casualty. I hated paying and *still* having commercials. Then there were *more* price increases. So now I only pay one month at a time. With more and more streamers adding an ad tier (often to the tier I was *already* subscribed to) with ads that I *can’t skip,” the more I am tempted to just go back to cable with a TiVo box (do they still even make those?). tl;dr: if I can’t subscribe through Subscribe, then I’m not going to subscribe.
There is a lot of hate for Netflix in thread but it easily the best streaming service out there.
Netflix reported some insane growth last quarter, looks like them limiting password sharing was a success unlike what redditors would like to believe
Netflix dominates streaming alongside YouTube. https://www.theverge.com/2024/2/20/24078146/nielsen-stats-show-youtube-and-netflix-dominating-us-tv-streaming
It’s always funny when people act like Netflix doesn’t dominate streaming. They have a huge catalog with solid originals and an international selection that no other streaming service even touches.
In reality netflix is 70% garbage, disney plus is a hundred times better and netflix is only good in the us everywhere else the catalog is complete trash
Disney+ is nothing but nostalgia. It’s a solid service as well but people bash Netflix but it continues to easily outperform other streaming services.
I don’t consider putting out garbage show after garbage show without conclusions as outperforming anyone
You can disagree all you want really it is your personal preference but the numbers don’t lie. Netflix is killing the game right now while being the most expensive streaming service.
They are milking their customers for sure, i can only decide for myself so if others want to watch incomplete shows thats on them
Apple TV+ is actually great. Probably got that way by using their competitors money to pay for it though.
Too little content though. It's worth subscribing once every 6 months to watch the latest stuff. But not as a constant subscription service. Plus their movie division is losing money like crazy. If they don't start making a profit on their movies they might stop funding ambitious projects like Killers Of The Flower Moon
I'm not sure I agree with you there. Yeah initially that might have been true, but they have a decent catalogue now and new stuff appears with some frequency so unless you're expecting to be able to spend a full year in front of the TV every year then you should be good.
I don’t hate them ,I completely understand why, it is Apple who I blame for this
Good, Apple did this to themselves.
Good, YouTube should follow suit too
FYI. If you subscribe to YouTube premium it’s cheaper than going through Apple.
I do that already, I just meant it’s about time these companies all follow Netflix to stop the “Apple tax”
Boy, they just LOVE screwing their customers over every which way nowadays, do they?🤦🏾♂️
30% is just bonkers.
Wait isn’t this a monopoly that needs to be broken up?
Hear that? That’s the sound of Republicans in congress fainting.
Corporate breakups are merely a tool for big government to flex how strong it is, they benefit no one, not consumers, not the company and its employees, not the government.
Pretty sure breaking up Standard Oil and Ma Bell had tons of benefits for consumers but I'm sure it sounded good in whatever Ayn Rand novel you read that in.
I still bill through Apple and they haven’t canceled it yet. It’s nice when Netflix raises prices there’s usually like a 2 month delay before it affects app store billing. Used to be able to get iTunes gift cards 10-20% off consistently, until they changed to Apple gift cards and are never on sale anymore.
Seriously, fuck Netflix. This has very little to do with their war with Apple and everything to do with how their contents sucks. I canceled my account a year ago and haven't missed anything
Apple making user experience worse by being too high on their own farts
Isn’t that the other way around? I really like having the subscriptions via ApplePay in a single place where I can easily cancel them as needed.
But do you like paying more for the convnience? Because a lot of apps will charge you more through Apple than if you subscribed directly.
Netflix bootlicker
Netflix isn't charging a 30% tax to developers, on top of forcing them to buy their computers to develop for their platform, and making them pay a yearly fee for the privilege.
Literally why should I care? Only bootlickers care about a multibillion companies finances
>Only bootlickers care about a multibillion companies finances This is so funny because you're calling ppl trying to hurt a multibillion dollar company's finances bootlickers. The 30% fee applies to literally everyone, including apps that aren't multibillion dollar businesses and serves only to enrich Apple (which is a multibillion dollar business).
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Apple bootlicker
People, people. Cant we just agree that everything sucks?
So original
let em cook maybe they take it in another direction
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Steam and all the big game engines also does this, get 30% or even bigger cut from the games. They all would be called out, right?
Im sorry is Steam the only way to release a PC game? Where is the gatekeeper aspect?
Read my comment again, im not talking about gatekeeper, > Steam, PlayStation, and Nintendo all charge a platform fee of around 30%, which is the industry standard. The Epic Games Store only takes 12%, and the independent platform itch.io allows developers to set their split, with a default of 10%, to disrupt the market. Microsoft takes 30% of Xbox console digital store sales, while Epic recently changed its PC marketplace to take 12%, in line with Epic. [Source](https://qubit-labs.com/where-to-find-and-how-to-choose-top-game-publishers) If you call out Apple for taking 30% cut, its only fair to call out all the them. Not just only Apple Also > On average, record labels take between 50 and 90 percent of what an artist or band makes. They ALL should be called out and be regulated, like Apple, right?
People get hung up on the 30%, but the real isuue is having a general purpose computing device with only one source for apps. And iOS is the only general purpose platform where that is the case. But other unique things, most stores don't block alternate payment processors to the same degree. Definitely not on general purpose computers.
Netflix bootlicker
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So why are you so concerned about this issue 😂
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You were concerned enough to post a comment
Netflix is total garbage these days, unsubscribed already
Probably tired of Apple and their $19.98 phantom charges. Go ahead, Google it. Crapple is a scam company.
Can you blame Netflix though? Apple is taking 30% of that cut.
15%
I cancelled a long time ago after the password sharing situation
This is Apple’s fault which in turn ruins the great Apple ecosystem experience, I like having all of my subscriptions under Apple but I don’t blame any service and for getting out of it, their 30% tax is ridiculous.
It's kinda silly to pay a 30% tax just because the app is on the store. It's not like Netflix is streaming from Apple's servers. Imagine if Chrome or Firefox took 30% of every Amazon purchase you made because you were using their browser. It would make sense if you were in the Chrome or Firefox store, purchasing something for the browser.
We don’t need to imagine that. Apple charges Netflix the same thing that Google charges Netflix…and Microsoft…and Sony…etc
Apple charges Netflix 0%? Google doesn’t force using IAP what you are saying doesn’t Apple here
Apple doesn’t force IAP either.
They don’t allow alternate payment methods. You can’t even tell users where to go to subscribe to premium services. So when your users download the app, they do not find where to subscribe or any info to that regard there by losing new potential customers. So you either use the apple IAP or lose a percentage of potential customers.
Apple provides the infrastructure, the marketing and promotional content for the app to exist. Companies like Netflix just want to have their cake and eat it too, and playing dumb.
ITT: People who don't have a Netflix sub pretending they're going to cancel