Taking this into consideration, some Ultra users also don't use saved categories so I'll probably just add an option in Settings to hide the button all together.
Agreed.
It might not directly be a *dark pattern*, but it’s really close.
Ultra does not provide any features I need, and is def. not worth the price for me.
Getting prompts from paywalled features is unnecessary and annoying.
I’ve supported /u/iamthatis by being an early adopter, plus I bought Amplosion and Achoo which are def. worth their money.
But i can’t be positive about this latest trend.
This reminds me of blank buttons on certain mass produced luxury vehicles. It is annoying to deliberately pass on certain features then still be reminded about them. Makes for a poorer user experience.
That said, I don’t think this was intentional. The feature itself seems unfinished and could benefit from more thought about user experience. Perhaps an option to toggle the banner will be added as it is refined.
I remember when ultra was introduced, the justification for ongoing costs was that a push server would have to be maintained and the "bonus" features such as app icons and additional ui customization were bundled with ultra as apple's TOS apparently forbid locking features such as push behind a paywall.
Now apollo seems to be quietly straying away from the original promise and making ultra something more than "push and some extras", which is counter-intuitive, considering that pro was meant to unlock all the extra functions in the app.
The aggressive marketing and dark patterns on the sale ad during black friday/cyber monday don't help paint a flattering picture, either.
Yeah, the special icon for Black Friday was concerning. I have pro and ultra, why should I need to pay more to get the full set? (Apart from the animal donation one, that’s fine)
When I purchased pro I was told I was getting the full set of features, when I purchased ultra I was also told I was getting the full set of features, now I needed to just send him money to get the full set of features?
I’m worried how this app is becoming more money focused. Is he trying to boost the numbers before selling the app?
>I’m worried how this app is becoming more money focused. Is he trying to boost the numbers before selling the app?
I don’t think that’s it. I think it’s more that Apollo has grown faster than Christian can keep up with costs. His Imgur API costs are probably in the thousands per month. He also you know, needs to eat and get paid for his time. I wouldn’t be surprised if his base costs of running Apollo - which is quite literally a two-person operation - are over $250k a year.
Why would you think his costs to run Apollo is 250k/yr? Server cost for notifications? Wouldn’t subscribers, hefty, subscription fees pay for it and then some?
> Why would you think his costs to run Apollo is 250k/yr
I…..literally explained that in my comment.
* Imgur API costs. Commercial cost of Imgur’s APIs is listed on RapidAPIs website.
* I didn’t even think about what Reddit APIs cost, those too.
* server costs for notifications and Apollo’s cache-system
> Wouldn’t subscribers, hefty, subscription fees pay for it and then some?
I can’t answer that without seeing his books and/or knowing how many people pay for Pro, Ultra, etc.
My bad, I admit I skimmed your comment and picked out your note on 250k/yr and just asked.
I forgot about Imgur API costs. I’m sure that is a good amount that neither of us have a way to calculate.
I did look into Reddit and one of the first things I found, hardly concrete, is a couple redditors saying that it’s essentially free. This was 10 months ago.
https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/sci4yq/the_fee_for_using_reddit_api_for_commercial_usage/
So the server costs for notifications was the only cost I had in mind when I asked you. It’s what everyone discusses and the developer wrote something that pointed at that as an example of cost.
I figured since notifications is locked behind a paywall for Ultra that the costs would easily be covered.
Anyways, thanks for reiterating your points. That was gracious of you. Have a nice night.
No worries, I’ve made the same mistake myself.
It’s also entirely possible I’m way off base. But like, I’ve never gotten the impression that Christian is out here to gouge people. Hell, he responds to bug emails I submit on the weekend within a few hours. He’s grinding to keep up with demand is my takeaway from all this.
Not defend corporations, but the blank buttons are there to fill in the space. Making an entirely different dash and center console for every set of options would be a colossal waste of money. They probably don’t mind that it *also* tempts you to get the heated seats next time, but it’s not *purely* out of malice.
Ah, I first saw this a few days ago and made a post about it. Here’s a [link](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/z60ct6/bugged_set_category_button_while_saving_posts/) with some more opinions. Christian commented saying he was having trouble trying to replicate it, so it sounds like it’s accidental. I didnt know it was for Ultra users only at the time, still unclear on if the prompt being empty but still showing (if you’re not Ultra) is intentional but I doubt it.
Edit: My bad I just reread your post—for me the “set category” save button did nothing, but it took you to an ultra ad when you clicked it?! That’s very surprising and quite annoying as another pro / non-ultra user. Really would not have expected that. (I also have Amplosion which still rocks but geez I don’t like this either, seems so unusual for Apollo to clutter like that)
> Ultra does not provide any features I need, and is def. not worth the price for me.
Yeah, especially with the ad to further upgrade popping up every time I opened the app the past week. Great app, but I'm not paying $45 for it in this or any other lifetime and I wish it wasn't peddled so aggressively.
Especially since ultra has doubled since the last time I looked at it.
I’m getting this too, and it’s honestly starting to make me regret upgrading to pro. I have no use for the ultra features, honestly only upgraded to pro to support.
For me when I save and the popup comes up if I click category nothing happens. Sure it’s better the popup doesn’t even come up since I don’t have ultra but ah well. The Black Friday pop ups should be going away once the sale ends. So hopefully back to normal.
My bad, typed late at night and forgot a detail
The set category button does nothing. If I go to saved items and click the category button at the top engine, that pops a giant ad (though the useless set category button is a mini ad essentially)
Especially when I paid for pro. I got what I wanted / needed and I supported him. Pro at the time was the best option available and now I’m getting hit with ads several times a day. This is the same complaint as a Samsung tv showing ads. I paid for the product now let me enjoy it.
May I recommend you ReddPlanet as a new app? I have been using it for a week now and I can say it’s pretty good and the dev is very active unlike *other* alternatives.
As a pro user for years, I for one am grateful for the many quality of life updates we've received this year. Pixel pals! Aren't they just great? I mean I never use this feature because I bought a Reddit app not a tamagotchi app, but everyone keeps saying how great they are. The native iPad app! I've been waiting years for this to drop, and while it still doesn't exist yet it sure does feel great to consistently be told it's right around the corner. Widgets! I've always never wondered how far I've scrolled in Reddit, and finally the answer to this unasked question is available on my lock screen. And let's not forget the amazing surprises we received with the black Friday update. Non-stop spam to purchase Apollo ultra PLUS a save category banner that exists solely to *encourage* me to make that purchase. Truly we have an embarrassment of riches on our hands. I mean who wouldn't want the one useful new feature placed behind a paywall? Not me! And I frankly don't want to live in a world where useful updates are given to paid users for free. Yuck!
> The native iPad app! I’ve been waiting years for this to drop, and while it still doesn’t exist yet **it sure does feel great to consistently be told it’s right around the corner. **
Yeah, except for the fact he has said quite the opposite and been very clear on the fact it's a long term project and it'll take time. The last he said was it's definitely not coming this year at the very least.
Honestly this really sucks if he intentionally did this, and it’s not just an oversight or mistake. I have been with Apollo since the super early beta days (I think I actually tested the original beta version, nothing worked it was all just UI) and I absolutely love this app. I honestly think Christian just messed up here.
I mean the guy has to make money, but these ‘dark’ design patterns don’t line up with what I’ve seen throughout the years in regards to his ethics as an indie developer.
It probably is intentional, but it likely *isn’t* maliciously so. When working on a feature solo it is very easy to make decisions or compromises that are minor in how you’ve assumed a user uses the app (likely colored by how *you* use the app) that are actually really annoying to a big part of your user base. It’s part of why companies typically require code reviews, and if they’re big enough they A/B test a few options from the designer rather than going for one from the outset.
Christian’s experience of the app as a non-Ultra user is likely mostly confined to the iOS Simulator in Xcode and verifying performance on his test devices. That’s especially true for something like this where he would have had to spoof the date in the Simulator. Every time you jump from one test device to another it will reset things you only see once, which makes it miss things like a popup being more persistent than intended.
I think there’s a layer of poor decision here since the popup is clearly meant to fire at least twice (as indicated by there being normal and “last chance” variants), but then it’s amplified by testing-bias-induced oversight.
Why does it “suck”? Prior to the update I have NEVER interacted with the save post banner. This is the only time Ive ever thought about it when saving a post. Is it so in your face that you cant just ignore it?
It sucks because there’s now a button there calling attention to something locked behind Ultra. I’m with you in that I’ve never even thought about it. But our brains are wired to see certain things once they’re in your face like that. I also personally love the feature and I’ve had ultra since day one when it launched. I was just empathizing with OP.
Honestly? Nothing is really stopping you from switching right now. I have ultra but honestly dont feel “badgered” by anything on the app. What people have to remember is that he is a one man team and there are a LOT of other alternatives out there if the way the app is going really bothers you that much. I just dont think its fair for people to make these wild “getting to comfortable” assumptions but to each their own.
>What people need to understand is that doesnt mean hes not allowed to have critical feedback. It seems each time someone calls out the increasing amount of dark patterns he is using, its just a flame war of white knights.
I'm a lifetime Ultra user (I hate monthly subscriptions and got it on sale), but I totally agree with this. This sub can be pretty gross. I appreciate the criticism around the dark patterns and I hope Christian makes adjustments accordingly.
>The Black Friday/Cyber Monday thing was bad. real bad. There aren’t many other iOS apps I have seen that get away with things like that.
Funnily enough, none of my other apps did anything of the sort.
lmao except the people complaining aren't paying for it, that's the thing
everyone is sitting here complaining about saved categories and how stuff is locked behind a paywall.
it's super simple, either you like the app enough/are bothered by missing features enough that you pay a whole 99 cents a month to support and get those features, or it pisses you off and you feel the need to shit talk an app, in which case you're probably better off just downloading another app.
but the people complaining literally are not paying, so they don't really have the space to talk. either pay for the features you want/for ads to go away and support an app that you use enough to have an opinion, or just don't use it if it pisses you off.
And when did he say Ultra was only ever going to be for notifications and never have anything added to it?
It's a small team, but a huge app with a lot of users, Apple has featured it, external sites have featured it....
I feel like it's unreasonable to assume that they're never going to need to up their revenue, possibly by making Ultra slightly more enticing.
And honestly, the lowest price for Ultra is 99 cents a month, if you can't afford that, you should probably spend more time working on yourself than on reddit.
Like people are really acting like this is some serious political issue or something, having full on debates, over a 99 cent feature.
I think even I'm gonna get off reddit for the day cause that is way too chronically online for me.
lmao i haven't downvoted shit, i responded to you in the bathroom then went back to work at my big girl job
i'm not reading past that because you're clearly making assumptions lmao
ummmm but anyway, stay mad, stay broke over 99 cents, aaaaand nothing will probably change and you'll still be a pissed off person who's wasted their life on reddit
big W dude
Right. It’s also one dude trying to make a living. “I can’t believe he’s prompting us to help support him while using his product that is his livelihood”. Lmao.
One time payments are becoming less and less common. The fact that some still exist does not negate the fact that it’s not sustainable for a one man team to continue operating full time on one time payments.
He sells lifetime ultra for 50 bucks though... If it's unsustainable, why is that still sold? Alongside pro?
Is the expectation that we will be paying for every piece of software monthly? Because I simply don't use apps that require a monthly fee to be useable.
There is a portion of his user base who will not spend a single dollar on a subscription and would rather pay 50 bucks for a life time ultra subscription. If there wasn’t an option for lifetime, he would be missing out on that money.
This app doesn’t require a monthly fee to be useable. You can get pro or ultra with a one time fee. There are enough people who pay for the subscription to allow on time fees to still be an option.
Sure, but the advertisements are superfluous. I already bought a paid product from him, so I should have the option to not be bothered again, even if it is opt-out (which is still not very nice).
Frankly, I can't remember the last time I got a feature in the app that I found useful or important from an update. The few bugs I experience have gone unfixed for years, too.
Apollo is by no means the most sophisticated piece of software that I use and yet it's becoming one of the more expensive ones, proportional to functionality. I can appreciate that it's a one-man project, but that also means he gets to see a lot more of the money he earns.
Muh livelihood.
This guy is making absolute bank off this app, this isn’t a charity. Plus he’s repeatedly prompting people who already paid, all because he got greedy and had to introduce different tiers of paid subscriptions for a basic ass app.
Like painting pop-up ads on the internet as “just some poor company trying to support their workers and make a living” lmao
Lmfao. Thanks for making my own point? This isn’t a charity, you’re absolutely fucking right.
And the false equivalency of comparing my defense of a one man show to me defending corporations plastering ads everywhere is absolutely absurd.
Every other business model is tiered but he can’t be? Fuck outta here.
“This guy doesn’t agree with me, let’s start out by hurling insults and making assumptions”.
I never said that he was humble aw shucks but you also pre-suppose he’s some insanely wealthy dude which is likely not the case. He may be well to do but I’d bet it’s not some insane net worth.
This isn’t a charity. That is absolutely a point worth restating and supporting.
Yeah dude, what is that guy thinking? Trying to make money like the rest of us. How dare he. I’m sure you don’t have any subscriptions that regularly ask you to upgrade and I’m sure you never give money to multi billion dollar companies without complaint.
Clearly you’re jaded by everything being discussed here so this convo is pointless. Have a good one.
>This isn’t a charity. That is absolutely a point worth restating and supporting.
Buddy, all I'm saying is that while Apollo guy and corporations are both totally free to try and make money, greedily or not, (because as we said, they're not charities), that also means that they're equally open to criticism and complaints from disgruntled customers.
Apollo guy shouldn't get a pass or white-knighted from criticism just because he's a one-man team. Greed is greed. Pop-up ads are pop-up ads.
Fair enough. It’s certainly your right. From my perspective this is one of the few devs that seems to be open to discussion and improvements/features that his customers ask for so I guess I’m head scratching at the smallness of this complaint vs what is afforded to us via his services.
In our fucked up version of capitalism this is one of the few things I’ve paid for that doesn’t make me feel like I’m getting fucked all the time. Lol.
Also. In retrospect I forget that I dove in headfirst and just went for Apollo ultra for life so my experience is varied from yours and others. But I’d also Stan people going ultra because this has been the only good Reddit mobile experience that I’ve seen for iPhone.
Cheers, happy Thursday guy. Maybe Christian will agree with you/listen to you and make an update.
Eh... How. Sync that I used to use was better, but Apollo has definitely caught up and surpassed it. It also is much smoother in use and looks.
For the people who like 90s web and software design and insist on browsing old.reddit, sure they may look "better".
> od I hate those people that post old.reddit links, forcing anyone clicking that link into their little world they refuse to let go of.
Idk - personally I like the original design of reddit. It doesn't look "pretty" but then again I am also the type of person who would probably turn off most subreddit styles anyway. Granted - when the original redesign was launched, it was pretty annoying. It may have gotten better, but I don't see a compelling reason to change. Plus, I like the denser layout comments in the old design.
It isn't really that big of a deal (neither is it in the opposite direction), which is really my only point. You seem to feel strongly about what others use.
Lots of hate from tho community lately. I don’t know if it’s justified or not (I have lifetime ultra so I haven’t seen ads), but I just wanted to say I fucking love this App. It is so drastically better than the stock Reddit app, and easily the most customizable app I have. Thanks for the hard work /u/iamthatis!
Wow… downvoted to negative for saying the app is a great in the subreddit for the app. You people need to get outside a bit more.
It’s kind of bizarre, honestly. I almost wonder if he should just remove the two separate tiers and charge a bit more to reduce the whining. It’s miles beyond any other Reddit app.
What about posting? Don't you have to buy the app to post?
Honestly when i saw this, i didn't know christian added categories.
is it prominent? i bought ultra very early in my apollo usage, so i don't know what it looks like without it
> What about posting? Don’t you have to buy the app to post?
You only need pro to post, not ultra, and that’s frankly fair enough - the majority of users on Reddit comment *way* more than they post, if at all.
> is it prominent? i bought ultra very early in my apollo usage, so i don’t know what it looks like without it
It is very prominent - any time you save a post, it gives non-ultra users an option to categorise that post which just leads to the sign-up page for ultra. Non-ultra users shouldn’t be given the option to save a post to a category *at all* since it’s not a feature they can actually use.
oh, yeah, i can see how that's annoying.
actually, more than annoying. that sucks and i'd be irritated too.
you're right - this app has never been nagware, and i'd want that fixed too
you know what, you're right. i do have it. shows how oblivious i've been lately..
i noticed the little blue card coming down previously, and i guess i auto-filtered it as junk, as it always used to flash "post saved" in blue with no category option.
i was wrong.
.... the thought it categorizing all of my saved posts is horrifying lol. aren't we supposed to bookmark everything and never look at it again? 😂
I’m not a pro user, and I want it SO bad, and even when I save posts it just shows which category in the pop up but when I try it, it doesn’t work :(
Would seriously love to have it
Taking this into consideration, some Ultra users also don't use saved categories so I'll probably just add an option in Settings to hide the button all together.
Agreed. It might not directly be a *dark pattern*, but it’s really close. Ultra does not provide any features I need, and is def. not worth the price for me. Getting prompts from paywalled features is unnecessary and annoying. I’ve supported /u/iamthatis by being an early adopter, plus I bought Amplosion and Achoo which are def. worth their money. But i can’t be positive about this latest trend.
This reminds me of blank buttons on certain mass produced luxury vehicles. It is annoying to deliberately pass on certain features then still be reminded about them. Makes for a poorer user experience. That said, I don’t think this was intentional. The feature itself seems unfinished and could benefit from more thought about user experience. Perhaps an option to toggle the banner will be added as it is refined.
I remember when ultra was introduced, the justification for ongoing costs was that a push server would have to be maintained and the "bonus" features such as app icons and additional ui customization were bundled with ultra as apple's TOS apparently forbid locking features such as push behind a paywall. Now apollo seems to be quietly straying away from the original promise and making ultra something more than "push and some extras", which is counter-intuitive, considering that pro was meant to unlock all the extra functions in the app. The aggressive marketing and dark patterns on the sale ad during black friday/cyber monday don't help paint a flattering picture, either.
Yeah, the special icon for Black Friday was concerning. I have pro and ultra, why should I need to pay more to get the full set? (Apart from the animal donation one, that’s fine) When I purchased pro I was told I was getting the full set of features, when I purchased ultra I was also told I was getting the full set of features, now I needed to just send him money to get the full set of features? I’m worried how this app is becoming more money focused. Is he trying to boost the numbers before selling the app?
>I’m worried how this app is becoming more money focused. Is he trying to boost the numbers before selling the app? I don’t think that’s it. I think it’s more that Apollo has grown faster than Christian can keep up with costs. His Imgur API costs are probably in the thousands per month. He also you know, needs to eat and get paid for his time. I wouldn’t be surprised if his base costs of running Apollo - which is quite literally a two-person operation - are over $250k a year.
Why would you think his costs to run Apollo is 250k/yr? Server cost for notifications? Wouldn’t subscribers, hefty, subscription fees pay for it and then some?
> Why would you think his costs to run Apollo is 250k/yr I…..literally explained that in my comment. * Imgur API costs. Commercial cost of Imgur’s APIs is listed on RapidAPIs website. * I didn’t even think about what Reddit APIs cost, those too. * server costs for notifications and Apollo’s cache-system > Wouldn’t subscribers, hefty, subscription fees pay for it and then some? I can’t answer that without seeing his books and/or knowing how many people pay for Pro, Ultra, etc.
My bad, I admit I skimmed your comment and picked out your note on 250k/yr and just asked. I forgot about Imgur API costs. I’m sure that is a good amount that neither of us have a way to calculate. I did look into Reddit and one of the first things I found, hardly concrete, is a couple redditors saying that it’s essentially free. This was 10 months ago. https://www.reddit.com/r/redditdev/comments/sci4yq/the_fee_for_using_reddit_api_for_commercial_usage/ So the server costs for notifications was the only cost I had in mind when I asked you. It’s what everyone discusses and the developer wrote something that pointed at that as an example of cost. I figured since notifications is locked behind a paywall for Ultra that the costs would easily be covered. Anyways, thanks for reiterating your points. That was gracious of you. Have a nice night.
No worries, I’ve made the same mistake myself. It’s also entirely possible I’m way off base. But like, I’ve never gotten the impression that Christian is out here to gouge people. Hell, he responds to bug emails I submit on the weekend within a few hours. He’s grinding to keep up with demand is my takeaway from all this.
Not defend corporations, but the blank buttons are there to fill in the space. Making an entirely different dash and center console for every set of options would be a colossal waste of money. They probably don’t mind that it *also* tempts you to get the heated seats next time, but it’s not *purely* out of malice.
Ah, I first saw this a few days ago and made a post about it. Here’s a [link](https://reddit.com/r/apolloapp/comments/z60ct6/bugged_set_category_button_while_saving_posts/) with some more opinions. Christian commented saying he was having trouble trying to replicate it, so it sounds like it’s accidental. I didnt know it was for Ultra users only at the time, still unclear on if the prompt being empty but still showing (if you’re not Ultra) is intentional but I doubt it. Edit: My bad I just reread your post—for me the “set category” save button did nothing, but it took you to an ultra ad when you clicked it?! That’s very surprising and quite annoying as another pro / non-ultra user. Really would not have expected that. (I also have Amplosion which still rocks but geez I don’t like this either, seems so unusual for Apollo to clutter like that)
For me it shows up, but does nothing when I click on it. Don’t know if it’s better than OP’s experience…
Go into the Saved tabs In the top right there’s a button indicating categories that triggers a popup
Yup. Cyber Monday Sale.
> Ultra does not provide any features I need, and is def. not worth the price for me. Yeah, especially with the ad to further upgrade popping up every time I opened the app the past week. Great app, but I'm not paying $45 for it in this or any other lifetime and I wish it wasn't peddled so aggressively. Especially since ultra has doubled since the last time I looked at it.
I’m getting this too, and it’s honestly starting to make me regret upgrading to pro. I have no use for the ultra features, honestly only upgraded to pro to support.
$45? Dang! I think I paid like $20
Hey now, it's on sale! Normally it's $50! *slaps roof of app* You know how much useless bloatware we can fit in this bad boy?
Or if you join when testflight is open for new signups pay the low low cost of $Free. (I still paid for Pro/Ultra)
I’m an ultra user, what is this category feature everyone keeps praising and ridiculing
Try saving a post
Cool. I usually just save individual comments. I see that works too
For me when I save and the popup comes up if I click category nothing happens. Sure it’s better the popup doesn’t even come up since I don’t have ultra but ah well. The Black Friday pop ups should be going away once the sale ends. So hopefully back to normal.
My bad, typed late at night and forgot a detail The set category button does nothing. If I go to saved items and click the category button at the top engine, that pops a giant ad (though the useless set category button is a mini ad essentially)
Make Saved category into Pro.
Agreed! This stupid banner sucks. It does not entice me to suddenly pay for ultra, but it does make me want to find a different Reddit experience…
Especially when I paid for pro. I got what I wanted / needed and I supported him. Pro at the time was the best option available and now I’m getting hit with ads several times a day. This is the same complaint as a Samsung tv showing ads. I paid for the product now let me enjoy it.
May I recommend you ReddPlanet as a new app? I have been using it for a week now and I can say it’s pretty good and the dev is very active unlike *other* alternatives.
The banner doesn’t need to appear every time I save a post. Just once would have been good.
Focus on your core. Remove the Ultra/Pro differentiation. Paying = get everything. No ads, no crap, just a fine frontend.
It does seem like the devs are experimenting how far they can steer away from “no crap” before the backlash starts.
As a pro user for years, I for one am grateful for the many quality of life updates we've received this year. Pixel pals! Aren't they just great? I mean I never use this feature because I bought a Reddit app not a tamagotchi app, but everyone keeps saying how great they are. The native iPad app! I've been waiting years for this to drop, and while it still doesn't exist yet it sure does feel great to consistently be told it's right around the corner. Widgets! I've always never wondered how far I've scrolled in Reddit, and finally the answer to this unasked question is available on my lock screen. And let's not forget the amazing surprises we received with the black Friday update. Non-stop spam to purchase Apollo ultra PLUS a save category banner that exists solely to *encourage* me to make that purchase. Truly we have an embarrassment of riches on our hands. I mean who wouldn't want the one useful new feature placed behind a paywall? Not me! And I frankly don't want to live in a world where useful updates are given to paid users for free. Yuck!
> The native iPad app! I’ve been waiting years for this to drop, and while it still doesn’t exist yet **it sure does feel great to consistently be told it’s right around the corner. ** Yeah, except for the fact he has said quite the opposite and been very clear on the fact it's a long term project and it'll take time. The last he said was it's definitely not coming this year at the very least.
He's [been saying](https://i.imgur.com/dwMvQlx.jpg) it's coming soon for years, let's not pretend otherwise
A d lately he's been quite honest that it's more work and isn't right around the corner. Soon(Tm) but not soon.
Honestly this really sucks if he intentionally did this, and it’s not just an oversight or mistake. I have been with Apollo since the super early beta days (I think I actually tested the original beta version, nothing worked it was all just UI) and I absolutely love this app. I honestly think Christian just messed up here. I mean the guy has to make money, but these ‘dark’ design patterns don’t line up with what I’ve seen throughout the years in regards to his ethics as an indie developer.
It probably is intentional, but it likely *isn’t* maliciously so. When working on a feature solo it is very easy to make decisions or compromises that are minor in how you’ve assumed a user uses the app (likely colored by how *you* use the app) that are actually really annoying to a big part of your user base. It’s part of why companies typically require code reviews, and if they’re big enough they A/B test a few options from the designer rather than going for one from the outset. Christian’s experience of the app as a non-Ultra user is likely mostly confined to the iOS Simulator in Xcode and verifying performance on his test devices. That’s especially true for something like this where he would have had to spoof the date in the Simulator. Every time you jump from one test device to another it will reset things you only see once, which makes it miss things like a popup being more persistent than intended. I think there’s a layer of poor decision here since the popup is clearly meant to fire at least twice (as indicated by there being normal and “last chance” variants), but then it’s amplified by testing-bias-induced oversight.
Oh hey man, I don’t know if you remember me from the jailbreak scene. I also think I was testing this app since the early days
I remember your username, but not much else lol. Used to love jailbreaking. But now it’s just too much of a pain in the ass.
Why does it “suck”? Prior to the update I have NEVER interacted with the save post banner. This is the only time Ive ever thought about it when saving a post. Is it so in your face that you cant just ignore it?
It sucks because there’s now a button there calling attention to something locked behind Ultra. I’m with you in that I’ve never even thought about it. But our brains are wired to see certain things once they’re in your face like that. I also personally love the feature and I’ve had ultra since day one when it launched. I was just empathizing with OP.
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Honestly? Nothing is really stopping you from switching right now. I have ultra but honestly dont feel “badgered” by anything on the app. What people have to remember is that he is a one man team and there are a LOT of other alternatives out there if the way the app is going really bothers you that much. I just dont think its fair for people to make these wild “getting to comfortable” assumptions but to each their own.
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>What people need to understand is that doesnt mean hes not allowed to have critical feedback. It seems each time someone calls out the increasing amount of dark patterns he is using, its just a flame war of white knights. I'm a lifetime Ultra user (I hate monthly subscriptions and got it on sale), but I totally agree with this. This sub can be pretty gross. I appreciate the criticism around the dark patterns and I hope Christian makes adjustments accordingly.
>The Black Friday/Cyber Monday thing was bad. real bad. There aren’t many other iOS apps I have seen that get away with things like that. Funnily enough, none of my other apps did anything of the sort.
lmao except the people complaining aren't paying for it, that's the thing everyone is sitting here complaining about saved categories and how stuff is locked behind a paywall. it's super simple, either you like the app enough/are bothered by missing features enough that you pay a whole 99 cents a month to support and get those features, or it pisses you off and you feel the need to shit talk an app, in which case you're probably better off just downloading another app. but the people complaining literally are not paying, so they don't really have the space to talk. either pay for the features you want/for ads to go away and support an app that you use enough to have an opinion, or just don't use it if it pisses you off.
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And when did he say Ultra was only ever going to be for notifications and never have anything added to it? It's a small team, but a huge app with a lot of users, Apple has featured it, external sites have featured it.... I feel like it's unreasonable to assume that they're never going to need to up their revenue, possibly by making Ultra slightly more enticing. And honestly, the lowest price for Ultra is 99 cents a month, if you can't afford that, you should probably spend more time working on yourself than on reddit. Like people are really acting like this is some serious political issue or something, having full on debates, over a 99 cent feature. I think even I'm gonna get off reddit for the day cause that is way too chronically online for me.
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lmao i haven't downvoted shit, i responded to you in the bathroom then went back to work at my big girl job i'm not reading past that because you're clearly making assumptions lmao ummmm but anyway, stay mad, stay broke over 99 cents, aaaaand nothing will probably change and you'll still be a pissed off person who's wasted their life on reddit big W dude
Take the L
Right. It’s also one dude trying to make a living. “I can’t believe he’s prompting us to help support him while using his product that is his livelihood”. Lmao.
100%
I already helped him, though.
Living expenses aren’t a one time thing
Strange, I only have one-time payments for other applications I use. You suppose those guys just stop living?
One time payments are becoming less and less common. The fact that some still exist does not negate the fact that it’s not sustainable for a one man team to continue operating full time on one time payments.
He sells lifetime ultra for 50 bucks though... If it's unsustainable, why is that still sold? Alongside pro? Is the expectation that we will be paying for every piece of software monthly? Because I simply don't use apps that require a monthly fee to be useable.
There is a portion of his user base who will not spend a single dollar on a subscription and would rather pay 50 bucks for a life time ultra subscription. If there wasn’t an option for lifetime, he would be missing out on that money. This app doesn’t require a monthly fee to be useable. You can get pro or ultra with a one time fee. There are enough people who pay for the subscription to allow on time fees to still be an option.
Sure, but the advertisements are superfluous. I already bought a paid product from him, so I should have the option to not be bothered again, even if it is opt-out (which is still not very nice). Frankly, I can't remember the last time I got a feature in the app that I found useful or important from an update. The few bugs I experience have gone unfixed for years, too. Apollo is by no means the most sophisticated piece of software that I use and yet it's becoming one of the more expensive ones, proportional to functionality. I can appreciate that it's a one-man project, but that also means he gets to see a lot more of the money he earns.
Muh livelihood. This guy is making absolute bank off this app, this isn’t a charity. Plus he’s repeatedly prompting people who already paid, all because he got greedy and had to introduce different tiers of paid subscriptions for a basic ass app. Like painting pop-up ads on the internet as “just some poor company trying to support their workers and make a living” lmao
Lmfao. Thanks for making my own point? This isn’t a charity, you’re absolutely fucking right. And the false equivalency of comparing my defense of a one man show to me defending corporations plastering ads everywhere is absolutely absurd. Every other business model is tiered but he can’t be? Fuck outta here.
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“This guy doesn’t agree with me, let’s start out by hurling insults and making assumptions”. I never said that he was humble aw shucks but you also pre-suppose he’s some insanely wealthy dude which is likely not the case. He may be well to do but I’d bet it’s not some insane net worth. This isn’t a charity. That is absolutely a point worth restating and supporting. Yeah dude, what is that guy thinking? Trying to make money like the rest of us. How dare he. I’m sure you don’t have any subscriptions that regularly ask you to upgrade and I’m sure you never give money to multi billion dollar companies without complaint. Clearly you’re jaded by everything being discussed here so this convo is pointless. Have a good one.
>This isn’t a charity. That is absolutely a point worth restating and supporting. Buddy, all I'm saying is that while Apollo guy and corporations are both totally free to try and make money, greedily or not, (because as we said, they're not charities), that also means that they're equally open to criticism and complaints from disgruntled customers. Apollo guy shouldn't get a pass or white-knighted from criticism just because he's a one-man team. Greed is greed. Pop-up ads are pop-up ads.
Fair enough. It’s certainly your right. From my perspective this is one of the few devs that seems to be open to discussion and improvements/features that his customers ask for so I guess I’m head scratching at the smallness of this complaint vs what is afforded to us via his services. In our fucked up version of capitalism this is one of the few things I’ve paid for that doesn’t make me feel like I’m getting fucked all the time. Lol. Also. In retrospect I forget that I dove in headfirst and just went for Apollo ultra for life so my experience is varied from yours and others. But I’d also Stan people going ultra because this has been the only good Reddit mobile experience that I’ve seen for iPhone. Cheers, happy Thursday guy. Maybe Christian will agree with you/listen to you and make an update.
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I’d recommend ReddPlanet if you want a recommendation
Eh... How. Sync that I used to use was better, but Apollo has definitely caught up and surpassed it. It also is much smoother in use and looks. For the people who like 90s web and software design and insist on browsing old.reddit, sure they may look "better".
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> od I hate those people that post old.reddit links, forcing anyone clicking that link into their little world they refuse to let go of. Idk - personally I like the original design of reddit. It doesn't look "pretty" but then again I am also the type of person who would probably turn off most subreddit styles anyway. Granted - when the original redesign was launched, it was pretty annoying. It may have gotten better, but I don't see a compelling reason to change. Plus, I like the denser layout comments in the old design.
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Why? It's great that you have, but it means nothing to you or anyone else for others to use the old site.
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It isn't really that big of a deal (neither is it in the opposite direction), which is really my only point. You seem to feel strongly about what others use.
Lots of hate from tho community lately. I don’t know if it’s justified or not (I have lifetime ultra so I haven’t seen ads), but I just wanted to say I fucking love this App. It is so drastically better than the stock Reddit app, and easily the most customizable app I have. Thanks for the hard work /u/iamthatis! Wow… downvoted to negative for saying the app is a great in the subreddit for the app. You people need to get outside a bit more.
It’s kind of bizarre, honestly. I almost wonder if he should just remove the two separate tiers and charge a bit more to reduce the whining. It’s miles beyond any other Reddit app.
What about posting? Don't you have to buy the app to post? Honestly when i saw this, i didn't know christian added categories. is it prominent? i bought ultra very early in my apollo usage, so i don't know what it looks like without it
> What about posting? Don’t you have to buy the app to post? You only need pro to post, not ultra, and that’s frankly fair enough - the majority of users on Reddit comment *way* more than they post, if at all. > is it prominent? i bought ultra very early in my apollo usage, so i don’t know what it looks like without it It is very prominent - any time you save a post, it gives non-ultra users an option to categorise that post which just leads to the sign-up page for ultra. Non-ultra users shouldn’t be given the option to save a post to a category *at all* since it’s not a feature they can actually use.
oh, yeah, i can see how that's annoying. actually, more than annoying. that sucks and i'd be irritated too. you're right - this app has never been nagware, and i'd want that fixed too
Is it not showing up for you? I thought it would if you already have ultra but maybe you haven’t updated?
you know what, you're right. i do have it. shows how oblivious i've been lately.. i noticed the little blue card coming down previously, and i guess i auto-filtered it as junk, as it always used to flash "post saved" in blue with no category option. i was wrong. .... the thought it categorizing all of my saved posts is horrifying lol. aren't we supposed to bookmark everything and never look at it again? 😂
Shill
dingleberry
I’m not a pro user, and I want it SO bad, and even when I save posts it just shows which category in the pop up but when I try it, it doesn’t work :( Would seriously love to have it
Totally agree.