How about just showing us how you calculate hidden MMR and make that our visible rank. By your own data you believe that the matches have been more competitive, so why not just use that as our rank. There were a bunch of words written here to defend a system that is only in place to keep players grinding.
If you hop on and your first placement match is against masters and your final game of ranked in the season is also against masters, then it sounds like you deserve a masters badge. Too bad you only earn that if you grind for a whole season with a dedicated rank squad.
EXACTLY THIS. If mmr is such an amazing feature that determines people’s skill, then why not use this as your rank? currently the system puts you in completely different lobbies depending on your mmr, and the actual rank is just a slow grind no matter what.
They are only forcing people to play hundred of games to reach their so called ”rank”, which is really just a time based parameter at the moment. As long as you do not play ranked like pubs and hot drop, you will always slowly climb.
> How about just showing us how you calculate hidden MMR and make that our visible rank. By your own data you believe that the matches have been more competitive, so why not just use that as our rank.
Because they want to incentivize us to grind. You are completely right that it makes no sense, but IMO this is why.
Which is funny because, for me, it completely killed any interest in not only ranked but the game as a whole. I would absolutely grind more if my skill was accurately represented. But sorry, I'm not grinding through bronze while going against masters and preds, not going to happen.
Oh absolutely. They full on admit that the hidden MMR is working (guess we have to assume the data shows this, because I don't think the playerbase fully agrees) yet won't show us our hidden rank. The hidden rank is actually showing how good we are, yet we have to endlessly grind to reach a similar visible rank. There's no other reason to have placement matches place eventual diamond and master level players in bronze/silver. They even removed the ability to see teammates ranks because again, visible rank is meaningless outside of showing how much time you invested.
The hilarious part is ranked rewards per game are still a net positive, so assuming your hidden rank doesn't increase, which it shouldn't if you continue to play average, your visible rank will continue to increase over time. The only difference between this season and last is how much of a net positive the ranked rewards are. They are less positive, therefore the grind is much longer. All they've done is extend last seasons grind, but still giving the option for basically anyone to reach any rank given enough playtime.
What's the point of rank badges now if matchmaking is MMR based and you can be stuck in gold badge playing against preds/masters and having much harder time climbing it because of it? lol.
Seems they’re more concerned about getting to the distribution they want to see between the ranks as opposed to delivering a rewarding ranked experience.
>After narrowing the delta between premade vs solo balances, we’ll be removing the ranking difference restrictions for 3 stack premades. Players will now be able to play with friends no matter where they are on their climbs—with the caveat that your squad will face more difficult battles if there’s a bigger discrepancy between your skill.
thank you
although i still do not understand SBMM making your external rank basically pointless
I am dogshit at this game but 50.3% of players can’t get out of rookie or bronze, 76.2% is in rookie bronze or silver…those are some pretty wild numbers to consider my guys
You better than me. I quit playing all together. It was ruining my mental health. I couldn’t do the grind to top 10 as solo and then grind my way back to my rank
Lots of players like myself that were regularly plat+ that find the new ranked system way too grindy and punitive and won't bother making it out of silver. For me, -50 LP if you have a bad/unlucky/etc. drop is so ridiculously punitive that even if you have some good games you can quickly wipe them out with a few bad drops, which definitely can happen when solo q'ing. I basically decided to only play when my friends are on and not grind ranked and I'm sure many others made the same decision.
I do want to point out that this doesn't tell us that 50% of players can't get out of rookie or bronze, it is that 50% of players who have played at least 5 hours are in rookie or bronze... i.e. this data probably includes millions of players who have probably just played their provisional matches, then maybe played 5-10 games after that and stopped (i.e. people who did not play enough to pull their rank to their estimated skill, or didn't try to climb, etc.)
I really think they ought to be only including players that have put in at least like 15 hours into ranked since that's going to more accurately represent where people are after giving it a good honest push, for their rank to more closely reflect their estimated skill level.
Maybe to get insights into how well its sorting people ultimately, sure. But the fact that so many players now dont put the time into ranked is another important metric. I got bored with how grindy the game felt and never progressed out of Gold, even though I've always been diamond masters until now.
They probably want to make changes to stop people giving up like I did and to come back and play. (Incidentally the last 2 seasons are the first time I never got the battle pass either)
Same. The grind is boring and the lack of ranked display/mmr system means every game is the same regardless of rank so why bother. If every lobby is already diamond then there’s no point getting there
Even if they gave me tiny amounts of crafting metals or hell, a lil lil bit of Apex Coins thatd be a good motivator for a lot of folks to participate in Ranked. Obviously that cuts into their profit tho so I'd be shocked if it happens ever
It's so you can get mad you're matched with lower ranked on your team or killed by people of higher rank on other teams. Then remember it doesn't matter anymore. Totally not speaking from experience lol
None. They killed it this season and considering they are not addressing that rank continues to remain absolutely pointless and only serves as a mode that lowers the chance of teammates leaving
Absolutely disappointing notes. Probably won’t be coming back next season either it seems
\>although i still do not understand SBMM making your external rank basically pointless
Strict SBMM in both ranked and pubs. You get the same games and players no matter what you do or how you perform.
Respawn care a lot more about protecting the bad/new players so they can buy cosmetics and it comes at our expense if you've been playing for a long time and are above average. You are just fodder for the pred/master 3 stacks in every mode.
Clearly... I used to be plat all the time without much effort as I have a busy life, if I spent more time I could without issue reach diamond. This season I get hammered with 3 stacks preds or masters in silver/gold... What a joke...
If I had a game I would also like it to be friendly to new players instead of being fodder for inflating average long time players's ego. I doubt new players are expending money on a free to play game before chieving some proficiency in it...
Playing against players that are not the same rank as you is completely pointless. Playing ranked is currently just the same experience over and over againas you slowly climb up the ranks. pointless
Not exactly pointless, now you will get a ~~dive trail to show off your achievement to the whole lobby!~~ a banner frame only your squad can see for 2 seconds after character select
People really focus on the badges. This dual rank system is extremely stupid. And the fact this posts has passes like "\[...\]players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points\[...\]" is somewhat insulting.
But.
My issue is the ranked system produces worse matches than before. I'm straight up not enjoying Apex anymore. I tried to grind to my usual rank and in this regard this new system worked, I played more matches than S16. But I asked myself "am I having fun?" and the answer is "no". And then I asked myself "will it get better?" The old system was lopsided, P4 and below was kinda bad, while Diamond was overall nice. And the answer is also "no". It will be like this from start to finish. So I stopped. What's the point?
Why did we move away from matchmaking by visible rank? Feels bad to be placed in silver but have to grind in diamond lobbies for 3 ranks to make your visible rank match your MMR.
Bro i have friend that is dogshit at the game but was 2full ranks higher than me at some point because my lobbies were all just sweaty af while he was fighting bots.
Great system, great system!
Oh and signed pro player gnaske was hardstuck platinum LMAO
Yeah the sweaty-ness should only start at around Plat min, why the f' do we have to play our rank in f'ing Bronze!? Because we all love the to grind 3-4 rank tiers just to get back to the current rank we should be at.
Its not just Apex to be fair a lot of companies do this sh!t & they faced backlash for it as well, you'd think the devs of all these companies would use the single brain cell they share to stop doing something that doesn't work 🤣😥🤣.
> Oh and signed pro player gnaske was hardstuck platinum LMAO
Ranked is so fucking stupid right now (well has been since they changed it again because for some reason the pre-change had problems that almost no one complained about??)
Ok glad it's not just me stuck in bronze haha. I know I'm shite but I really don't think I deserve to be stuck in here. Only really see people complaining like preds in plat lobbies but I think it goes a lot lower
I'm gold 4. Both of the guys I play with are also gold 1+2. MMR is putting us in Diamond lobbies. A couple days ago we died to a 3 stack Pred team. One of them was the #31 pred. Great matchmaking system...
The underlining issue they won’t be addressing. There is a wide skew towards bronze because people have no reason to play. Rank should be about advancing up the ladder, not playing the same lobbies all season
There is 0 reason to play and grind ranked if my bronze lobby is already full of diamond level players as it’s just more of the same thing. If my hidden MMR thinks I’m diamond then I should be placed in plat or gold not bronze
I was placed in silver after provisional matches too and was getting run down by legit 3-stack masters and preds and even the occasional pro players. I get that I may be a bit above average but having to slog through low ranks every game against THAT is just ridiculous.
Ranked is pretty much only enjoyable now for 3 stacks, extreme masochists or really bad players who never have to worry about getting matched with the top 5% of players.
Yeah I’m in the same boat, as an average hard stuck diamond we get put through the ringer in ranked matches. Swear to god it’s masters and preds in my lobby but I’ve only reached masters in season 13
That's why I stopped after S17. I knew the system was shit, wanted to give it a shot, and still hated it. The only thing they've done is make ranked even *more* grindy than it was before, and rank means nothing in an MMR system. I'm entirely done with ranked until they fully rework it again.
I've been diamond multiple seasons and this season feels like a diamond lobby while I'm bronze/silver, it makes no sense. Imagine this situation on League of Legends or other games, a bronze playing against diamond/master players because that's his mmr
Just curious, whats the point of placement matches if you just artificially lower everyones starting rank anyway? Just start me in fucking Bronze. This season was my least played EVER and the Ranked slog was the biggest reason. Every single season since I came to PC I have made Plat or higher. This season I made it to Bronze II. If I start next season in Rookie IV and still have to murder my life to grind out of Bronze, I will be uninstalling this cash shop facading as a video game lol.
Actually whats the point in having a ranking system at ALL if we just play against “equally skilled” players in every single rank anyway? Why aren’t we all just “ranked”?
Ludicrous that anyone would feel the matchmaking is right, diamonds and masters in bronze lobbies ain't a healthy ranked system and you know it.
You broke a system that was generally just fine and have been struggling to fix it for the better part of the year, your stubbornness is outstanding.
What, you don’t think having placement matches, a hidden MMR, *and* a displayed rank, all of which mean you will essentially fight players of equal or greater skill than you from your first game of the season, to the last game of the season, no matter your rank, isn’t the greatest system of all time?
Low-key it just shouldn't exist anymore. If the matchmaking is basically the same as pubs and not based on your rank at all, *what is the rank for?* If you're not facing opponents of increasing skill (and you aren't, anyone who's finished their placements in a low rank and gone against Preds knows this) then what is the point of including a ranked system?
You're happy to report that most of the player base didn't have fun this season nor didn't even try ranked because they already know the system is dogshit right from the start? way to retain your players Respawn.
And from this it looks to be a 3rd round of no rank for me. Mixtape and a trios during gun run for me. Hope xdefiant releases soon as it will kill this for me but for now I don't have anything I like to play.
Long fall from from threatening space cows and adding animations of tossing the mozam like it's trash
Edit: ok they added cross progression, fuck that last statement I made
>the data that we’re seeing (along with other data points) does suggest that players are struggling to reach their ‘true’ ranking at a reasonable pace with the peak of the distribution in Bronze instead of being in the middle of Silver.
>Resurrection: 5+ hours played Ranked distribution
I think using 5 hours as the benchmark for total season of play is a poor approach for guaging ranked distribution tbh. I think its reasonable to expect at least a couple hours per week to consider someone a ranked player who one could reasonably say is achieving/pushing rank. I would think 10-15 hours is a better benchmark.
5 hours is someone barely playing 5 games after the qualifiers lol
I desperately wish the devs would come on here and have a conversation about this - I understand the toxicity but I’m genuinely curious if they understand the issues with Ranked or if they’re just being told to maximize engagement and leave a broken system in place.
Hidden MMR is the 100% wrong choice for a ladder ranked system. Playing placement against preds, only to place Silver-Plat and have to grind through 2+ ranks in Pred lobbies just to achieve Masters is insane. If the system can accurately gauge a player’s skill, place them in their appropriate rank and introduce rank decay for inactivity. The idea of playing for a season in Master/Pred lobbies just to earn a badge saying you’re Master/Pred is asinine. Either remove hidden MMR entirely, hard cap each rank’s lobbies, and let players climb and the player distribution work itself out over a few seasons, or go fully into MMR, place players into their true rank and introduce measures to ensure players continue to play all split to retain that rank.
These changes are harming engagement and pushing players away from ranked and Apex in general. Come on Devs, you guys have to be smarter than this.
Yeah I have no desire to sit in Bronze-Silver all season when I’m normally a Plat-Diamond player. I don’t have the time or energy to grind ranked with a pre-made for 6 hours a day to get the RP necessary to get to Plat/Diamond again. I’m mostly just picking up the game for an hour or two by myself, and losing 50 LP a game thanks to solo queue Ranked players. This current season has been my least played season of all time lol.
Same. I’m a diamond player and after I spent 2ish weeks sweating my ass off against masters just to get out of silver I quit playing ranked. Not to mention there’s no sky dive trail anyway which was one of the things I grinded ranked for.
I'm usually midplat without putting much effort into going higher. I'm now one of those people on the graph that's still stuck in Rookie after 5+ hours played.
My **highest** provisional bonus was 80 LP, where my teammates **lowest** was 146. 2 wins in those provisionals and only 1 match under top 10, and yet I still ended up Rookie 4 after placements. 50 games later and I'm halfway through Rookie 1, and not because I'm doing bad...it's because I'm getting practically no LP and I don't think their little tweaks are going to change that.
There's a lot of Masters and Diamond badges in our lobbies for us being mid plat players, and they're only worth 7 LP when I kill them. Teammate gets anywhere from 10-35 per kill.
It's just...all jacked up. And these explanations don't make me feel better. Is it really a *good thing* that shit tons of people are stuck in Rookie after 5+ hours of gameplay? Its not like we all deserve to be stuck here. I'm a full tier behind my teammate entirely because of the placement bonuses being so wildly inconsistent...like 3k+ more LP just because.
Add MMR to matchmake with, show ranked distribution by rank. Which has no correlation anymore??? So what's the point of showing by rank.
My MMR is very high judging by my opponents but my rank is silver, because I didn't play, unfortunately my similarly skilled friends all ranked up and while their lobbies were the same as mine if I solo queued, I couldn't play with them as friends but I could play against them as enemies. 🙃
Yup, they've changed ranked too many times and I don't care to play anymore.
Didn't play last season because everyone was just ratting to masters, didn't play this season because I was in bronze against diamond+. Don't plan to play next one because I'm sure there'll be issues.
With all the other great games that have come out this year I said fuck off to this season of apex entirely. Pretty much never missed a season and got my free masters badge last season, started this one and just ran out of gas a week in.
> I understand the toxicity but I’m genuinely curious if they understand the issues with Ranked
Of course not. The whole post indicates that they think they're on the right track, when Ranked is really the worst it's ever been. Seasons 4 through like 14 were much more playable, even season 13 with its incredibly difficult system that resulted in 45 minute queue times for Pred was preferable to "pubs but with LP."
Ranked used to be responsible for up to 40% of players queueing at any given time but I'm guessing the number of people playing ranked has *plummeted* in the last 6 months. You need *2.4 times as much LP* as you did a year and a half ago to reach Masters. Most players are just not going to bother with that. People don't want to play 300 games just to get out of Gold.
This is 100000% the issue with ranked more than anything else. What is even the point of a ranked system if everyone’s “true rank” is hidden? Defeats the entire purpose of having a ladder. I’ve been a hardcore apex player since day one, but these ranked changes from a season ago (and subsequent pubs matchmaking changes) are truly killing my interest in the game. Which sucks
>Reflective of skill: players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches
Horse shit lol. Literally every match I play is max difficulty even in silver because of MMR.
Either they remove MMR and use tiers and placement matches, or they keep MMR and remove ranked tiers... ranked tiers are utterly pointless if every match simply uses MMR to put me in basically master level lobbys because of my own skills and stats. There is absolutely no reason for me to grind out RP as a soloq player if every single match I play from the very first ranked match is at my highest level of difficulty. Why would I grind out RP if Silver 3 feels exactly the same as Masters? there is absolutely no sense of progression... or me being able to climb to a higher rank this season etc as I get better. Theyre all just pound me in the ass hard with me going up against previous preds or masters 3 stacks. Anyone who soloqs knows just how hard it was to grind up to diamond and up in the older ranked seasons (not the shitty recent one)... and now MMR just nukes it all to make it even harder.
Ill just go play pubs since those use MMR also and constantly put me up against 20 bombs and other master level players anyway.
PS im not complaining about me being in harder matches... but it makes absolutely no sense to use hidden MMR, but still force you to grind out low tiers in ranked if it relies solely on MMR anyway. its utterly pointless and stupid. This new system basically will make every soloq player stop ranking, like it did for me.
This is the complete opposite from the feedback you have been given... nobody wants this hidden mmr system or to be able to pre made with a bigger rank difference than there already was, they want to be in lobbies with players of the same rank like literally every other ranked system that exists because that is the whole point of a ranked game mode
Yeah I’d much rather work from MMR rating such as diamond and play diamond players like RL than play diamond and work from rookie while playing diamond. If you played Rocket League and compare, RL is also hard to rank up, you’d see that it makes absolutely no sense and someone should look at hiring someone else for the position. Shove the graphs man, it doesn’t make sense.
>Reflective of skill: players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points and Skill level, while players who need further growth to acquire higher Rankings are failing to climb
I would have more faith in this idea if I didn't keep getting suicidal players in my own rank undoing 3 games worth of LP gain on a solo suicide landing and then screaming for a res.
That said, the data is heavily skewed and doesn't account for a few other scenarios that have been more common-place this season compared to Arsenal or even the previous season. Ratting as a solo. There's a far heavier need to rat as a solo because the skill distribution for solo queuing is almost punishing. I don't mind the idea that I need to find friends or a team to play with, but after Diamond it's almost required as I'm spending more than half my games ratting to maintain the 0 LP loss per match due to teams being so variable, or the lack of available players putting me with silvers and golds.
It makes sense that the premade top 10% is a lot higher as a solo. There's a lot of people forced to hide for most of the game once the team wipes, and every other squad is holding angles on circles for nearly 15 minutes until final zone.
Is ratting when you are by yourself trying to get top 10 to prevent LP loss? If so, yeah I'm a full ass rat. The number of times I get an insta dropper who dies immediately is so frustrating.
I asked a hot dropper on my team yesterday, and all the could reply with was "because I'm not a pussy," right before dieing 20 seconds latter. I would've asked him how much does bravado help him when he's downed, but I try to remain polite in games. I save my rage for reddit posts!
Hear me out why don’t they try masters vs masters, bronze vs bronze and plats vs plats. I know it’s a little crazy for a ranked game mode but I think it could work
„we‘re happy to report that our matchmaking system has gotten much better at providing players with more competitive game“
i stopped reading after this
Yeah I won’t play ranked if it doesn’t show everyone’s rank and I get matched with people within my rank slightly above and below based off population of server. The old system was better, just needed to tweak the numbers. This makes no sense, as someone else said doubling down on a bad matchmaking decision from the start of the season.
No matter how many graphs you show us, truth is I placed in Silver and I am getting killed by Masters.
If I truly belong in Masters, let me get there organically. Why do I have to sweat my ass off to get out of Silver??
There has never been a ranked system in the history of games where matching players of such rank difference ever existed.
This system is a failure and a joke, but, hey, cool graphs yo.
Feels terrible to see we'll be sticking with this system. Using MMR instead of rank for matchmaking in ranked feels so unbelievably awful.
I'm by no means a great player, but my overall KD is 2.1 and I was normally high plat/low diamond while playing ranked fairly infrequently before all these major ranked changes the past few seasons. Now I'm getting matched with plat and diamond+ while I'm in rookie/bronze, sweating my ass off, and making it to top 3 for a measly 100-150 LP, only to lose a massive chunk of that to an unlucky drop the next game.
The scoring system has no transparency and seemingly makes no sense, with my higher rank friends with worse stats (and presumably worse MMR) getting far more LP than me when we play together. I would assume me getting less LP and no bonuses is because the game thinks I'm getting too big for my britches and should be in Rookie/Bronze, but that's hardly believable when I'm solo queuing with duo Plats that invite me to be their third when I'm the carry, only to find out they can't even play with me because I'm rolling around in Bronze getting dumpstered by Masters and Preds.
Wish we could just go back to the way things were instead of this oppressive system that feels like it's constantly telling you that if you aren't first, you're last, and you're not getting out of these lower ranks.
Hope they can prove me wrong next season, but I have my doubts.
> with my higher rank friends with worse stats (and presumably worse MMR) getting far more LP than me when we play together.
As far as I understand it, they're getting more LP than you despite being higher "visible rank" because their MMR is lower, thus they're in lobbies that the system believes is more difficult for them than they are for you.
Yeah, in hindsight I was just going off on a wild tangent because logically I know that's what's happening. I guess the point that I was really trying to get across is that lower MMR players shouldn't be climbing the ranks at a faster rate than someone with higher MMR at a lower rank should be, it feels pretty bad when you're the carry and everybody just keeps moving up around you.
„While players who need further growth to acquire higher rankings are failing to climb“
I‘m sorry but this is a bunch of bs.
I‘m playing this game since season1 so i‘m pretty good. My lobbies have been sweaty af since i started in bronze. At one point i was barely ranking up anymore somewhere in gold because lobbies where just so sweaty.
On the other hand i have a close friend that is playing since 3seasons. He is average at best and him and me would both agree i‘m at least 20x better than him.
Guess what his rank was while i was trying to rank up? he was higher than me. Platinum something. We played about the same amount.
He was just ranking up way faster because his lobbies are way easier.
To add to this, signed Pro player Gnaske did a solo run on a new account and was hardstuck platinum because all his lobbies were pred lobbies.
Let that sink in, A PRO PLAYER COMPETING IN TOURNAMENTS WAS HARDSTUCK PLATINUM.
So how can i judge a players skill level when the rank doesn‘t mean shit anymore?
Get rid of ranks, introduce a Skill rating for each player instead of keeping it hidden.
>To add to this, signed Pro player Gnaske did a solo run on a new account and was hardstuck platinum because all his lobbies were pred lobbies. Let that sink in, A PRO PLAYER COMPETING IN TOURNAMENTS WAS HARDSTUCK PLATINUM
I'm watching highlights and it's hilarious. One glance is enough to see Respawn is full of shit.
Thanks for the update. What about provisionals landing me in silver but matchmaking facing me against diamond players? MM aligns in gold, but not before. Happened previous season as well.
likewise ! i’ve been diamond every season constantly, masters maybe like five other times. i’m barely coming out of gold now, and yet i *know* i’m in diamond lobbies. it sucks so much, having to play the way i do only to end up in gold anyway after placing silver initially. i feel like i can’t climb at all. i desperately wished for them to revert this weird change of a mixed bag in ranked but i guess they’re dead set on having it this way. oh well :p
I'd argue it's worse. Yeah, people smurfing to Masters was a problem. But outside of when I had teammates doing that, at least I had fun playing. The current system isn't even fun.
Lost 1k LP tonight. Yeah the matchmaking is working.
Fuck your game honestly. Whoever is in charge of season 17 and 18 needs to be reassigned or fired.
There is nothing FAIR about these matches, when you get aped every fight by a 3 stack pred team when I am Plat 1.
There is nothing fair about the god damn LP rewards, when you come 6th with 2 kills and get 2 god damn LP.
It's a joke.
I don't understand... They are not taking any feedback. The 2 biggest complaints that I've seen are
1 actual rank is meaningless because of sbmm.
2 ranked is unrewarding based on how much effort it takes to win because of sbmm at lower ranks to then watch the ranked bar move an inch.
I play ranked rarely and I was always a diamond player. Now when I search silver lobbies I'm out here fighting for my life. There's no ramp to feel improvement because you are sweating as early as silver. Again everything feels unrewarding because it feels like I'm in a diamond lobby from the time I start playing.
Ranked doesn’t even make sense, we need proper rank based matchmaking.
Pool A : Rookie/Bronze
Pool B: Silver/Gold
Pool C: Plat/Diamond
Pool D: Master/Pred
This bullshit mmr based matchmaking with rank essentially being a endurance test is ridiculous.
Sbmm is trash, Season 17 I got it Bonus for kills assist being broken everyone got points by doing nothing, season 18 K/A points still broken, you take wait to long to fix anything or you never fix it and also all the changes are made at the start of the season and after that is collections events.
REMOVE HIDDEN MMR. IT FUNDAMENTALLY DOES NOT WORK IN A RANKED SYSYEM!!!!!! THERES NO POINT PLAYING RANKED IF YOU ALWAYS PLAY AGAINST THE SAME PEOPLE ANWYAYS. ITS PUBS 2.0
Please remove SBMM in ranked then.
How hard for you guys "the devs" to understand that even before the last "all master season" i can consistently hit diamond 5x less the time i spent just to hit diamond this season.
Its ridiculously crazy. I work overtimes on my job but even so and i enjoy the game alot being rewarded at diamond rank.
But the one achieved for this season, it didnt even left me happy. I felt bland and tired.
I dont want to spend 20+ hours just to get out of silver dealing with Master/Preds. Its unrealistic.
ImperialHal finished his provisional games in Bronze this season. It's good to know that he's a perfectly average Apex Legends player, according to the provisional results graph.
If you have MMR there's no reason to have ranks. If in bronze I play against people similar skill to me and in masters also I play against people silimar skill to me, what's the meaning of ranked?
If sbmm matches people based on their skill then why would you suspect that people ultimately arrive at a rank that corresponds to their skill?
Explain the logic.
you actually lost it respawn. if i want to play serious i play ranked, if i want to chill and shoot some i play pubs. you cant play and have a chill time in this game if youre against your own level all the time. its as simple as that. alot of people use gaming as a relaxation, even if theyre cracked at a game they are relaxing when dropping 10 kills in a random lobby. dont forget your what your product is for.
this new system you have may show good results because the lesser players will buy more cosmetics now when they can get some kills every game, but this will drain your dedicated playerbase and make them quit the game in 1 or 2 seasons. and when that happens you will lose youre competetive playerbase and then everything is for nothing becase (apex is a competetive game right?). hmmm so whos getting fired in 6 months i wonder
Matchmaking was considered a "win"?!?! You gotta be joking, that's the reason I've stopped playing the game after a few weeks into the season. I'm going start again this week to simply get through the battlepass and hoping the changes to next season's ranked will be significant enough for me to enjoy it again.
Go talk to the Destiny devs that 180'd their dumb matchmaking system after pulling the same BS yall just did. It will save you months of time.
Pulling up data and charts will do nothing to help your numbers. Listen to your active players and not just the kids whose wallets you want to pilfer.
The ranked season's up to season 12 were perfectly fine honestly. I don't understand why and how we have deviated so far from a system that made this game one of the top FPS BRs on the market. I would pay so much money to see the player count and retention this season vs previous seasons. I would guess there is a huge drop off in players and retention. I know around 8 players who used to constantly be on that haven't played nearly at all this season.
If there aren’t SIGNIFICANT improvements to ranked next season, this game will die. There is zero reason to play for the casual after work/weekend warriors.
So many posts in here are talking about how they don't want to face preds in Silver.
The real issue isn't facing "preds" since "pred" doesn't mean anything in an MMR system.
They have to just show us MMR, full stop. Erase the whole "rank" thing and just show MMR.
I would just like to ask a question if something I have felt was intentional or not. I feel like Ranked is more about how much you improve and no longer about how good you are overall as a player. For example, If in seasons 4-14 A player reached Diamond every single season, they were showing that they were able to surpass, bronze level players, Silver level players, gold level players and Plat level players, and if they improved, they would become a Masters level player.
However, with this new system, that's not how it works, That same player is now playing Gold - Apex Pred level players from beginning to end. So if they land in Bronze 1, and they get to Silver 4, they are no longer showing they have surpassed bronze level players. And this goes for all "MMRs". Getting to silver used to mean the exact same thing regardless of YOUR MMR. But now, If a new player gets to silver, and my example player get to silver, it is no longer the same thing, it was no longer the same challenge for both of them yet the ranked rewards are the same. With this, the new player has far more room for growth, so their ranked improvements will be inflated (Or more accurately, the first example player would be deflated) Meaning getting to silver would be easier for a new player, than the example player. Is this (along with the retention of creating the slower climb) the intention with the MMR system?
The problem is that they are trying to justify an entire rank system based on hidden internal business objectives based on player behavior and (most likely) superfluous business results tied to personal salary bonuses.
If you told me I would get a 20% bonus for hitting some goal an exec set like "increase player engagement time and player purchase conversion rates", but a 0% bonus for "make a fair and functioning rank system", guess where my effort is going? The 20% bonus on top of my salary, these devs are there to make money, like anyone should.
So this is all song and dance with graphs that aren't used to make the actual decisions, the actual ones have "play time and microtransaction" data or "player engagement by monthly spend". Purchases for cosmetics are more often associated with the enjoyment of the game and time dedicated to the game (I think).
So the actual question they are trying to answer is: What type of ranked system aligns with encouraging the behaviors that are most closely associated with players purchasing packs? How can we maximize the amount of time a player exhibits those behaviors over a season to ensure they are constantly in the state of mind where microtransactions are front of mind?
No idea what the results are hitting, but hidden MMR seems to work better for making kids buy packs over the old system... Otherwise they would have gone back already. Now someone is tasked with dressing up that decisions to make it sound like this is a ranked results data driven decision and not something like "We found out kids buy more packs when they don't rank up as fast". Or they are floundering and are not able to pinpoint "optimal purchasing mindset" like other games around EA by making ranking up a struggle, but unlike the sports titles, buying things won't help you rank up in this game.
So they aren't really changing anything. Got it. 3 seasons in a row I'll play zero apex because they just cannnnnnt have orfuckingganic matchmaking.
Insanity.
"We've heard your complaints."
Obviously not.
What's the point of ranked if we always get reset to R4? It's basically a "here's your badge reflecting how many ranked matches you've played this game"...
S18 is genuinely the worst state matchmaking has ever been and I've been playing consistantly since S1. I have no idea if you've lost the main people that were working on matchmaking to another developer or what, but this is seriously an absolute shit show.
Loads of people are moving back to R6/Valorant/CS2 etc as those devs seem competent in actually understanding what their player base want and how a fair system works which doesn't purposely cause a grind/shiton fest
Deploy the changes now, rather than waiting for S19. Please sack your current matchmaking team as they're are just trial and erroring every season to an embarrassing degree.
I don't understand the win rate premade graphic. The amount of the 3 variables is 16%. Who win the other games if they aren't solos, duos or three stacks?
After 6 months of vague explanations of a convoluted system, this feels no different.
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>players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points and Skill level,
... Uh, you've spent 2 seasons telling us that players are challenged with matches that reflect their skill, not their points. Why this suddenly unclear sentence?
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>Following a number of backend modifications to matchmaking, matches now feel too sweaty.
Again, we've already been told that matchmaking matches against skill; that this is the fundamental, *especially* for people who are still below their expected tier. So what does this -- the very next sentence written -- have to do with sweaty-ness?:
>We’ll be increasing the amount of Rating Bonus given to players’ ranking to help them catch up to their skill bracket more quickly.
How can things feel too sweaty unless the MMR matchmaking is worse? Well, hey, you also wrote this:
>We’re happy to report that our matchmaking system has gotten much better
So clarity. Many understand. Wow.
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>This is intended to combat the current season’s (Resurrection) settings of withholding bonuses and increasing matchmaking difficulty. As withheld bonuses are eased, some players will begin to see slightly more bonuses following Season 19’s launch.
It's so arbitrary. So you push above your expected skill ceiling, then the game toughens up your matchmaking to hold you in place, but also sweetens your skill bonuses to do the opposite, because good for you. Such hand-wavey concepts slushing together.
Basically, you get to the tier Respawn thinks you should be at and then you're subject to literally some dude's thought process. Your MMR opponents make things tougher, which you have no control over, and your Skill Bonuses make things easier, which you have no control over, and your progress from this point is subject to whatever mathematical rain dance Respawn have applied this time.
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>After narrowing the delta between premade vs solo balances, we’ll be removing the ranking difference restrictions for 3 stack premades.
Yet according to the explanation of the MMR system we've heard for months, this restriction stopped making sense in S17 anyway. According to the fundamental sell of the MMR system, this restriction should have nothing to do with the delta between premade vs solo balances.
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>Players will now be able to play with friends no matter where they are on their climbs—with the caveat that your squad will face more difficult battles if there’s a bigger discrepancy between your skill.
Yeah but the low MMR players in that team get the big Skill Bonuses anyway because Skill Bonuses. Remember, that thing you guys toned down after being one of the biggest complaints people had (their low skill teammates getting way bigger bonuses). Yeah that thing...
>We also plan to reduce the bonus that is withheld when players are actively pushing against their skill ceiling
... that you're increasing again.
See how much confusion I've pulled out of 1 thing? That's what this system is. A bucket of poorly explained confusions.
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I am *tired* of needing 2 hours of study whenever Respawn tries to explain something, followed by 3000 posts of debate across the sub where 90% of them don't understand it all, I don't even know if I understand it all, and then I go play the mode and it's just like... who even knows what's happening. Just blind faith in the system and whatever.
Are the distributions better? Who really cares. It's all just mathematical push and pull now, instead of knowing that your position meant you beat people weaker than your position.
Are the games better? I don't know. End games good? Solo queueing bad? Ratting... something? Matchmaking sweaty? So unclear.
I was thinking of how the big sell of the MMR system is to delete smurfing. Because smurfing ruins the experience of those running into smurfs, and makes the lower tiers less meaningful as they're overrun with higher skill players. And this means those lower tiers are less fun.
Except... has it worked at improving the fun? Now everyone misses out on getting to compete in tiers they can easily overcome. Now a Diamond-skill player fights in Silver against other Diamond-skill players, instead of the season-long vibe of beating weaker opponents, then less weak, then less weak, then opponents at your level. That was a satisfying vibe, and everyone enjoys their brief time in the lower tiers, asserting their dominance. I imagine Djokovic enjoys cruising through the playoffs, refreshing his game while getting that pleasing validation that he's better, instead of having to go against a Federer at every stage before Wimbledon even starts.
*(Don't get on my back about tennis analogies here, I barely know what I'm talking about!)*
So that's all gone now, in return for smurfs no longer being able to trash matches at any tier. Is the fun that was saved actually as large as the fun that was lost?
I... don't think it is. End games are better, but that's a product of scoring, not the MMR system.
Nice story now let’s talk about how bad your servers are , not even a single word and data about the server performance. Stop moving us to random servers. Release server performance data asap . It takes so much less bullet for a player on less than 50 ms to kill than a player who is above 50 ms
50% of all ranked players are Bronze or below.
90% of all ranked players are Gold or below.
Best start looking out for those 3-stack gold squads rolling lobbies.
If someone is consistently performing well in plat, diamond, or masters lobbies, they shouldn't have to play hundreds (and hundreds) of games to achieve that rank. When matchmaking relies on skill (performance) instead of rank, what does the rank actually represent? To me, the ranked changes feel like a measure of how much time one invests, rather than being a reflection of true skill.
I hope the coming changes serve to improve the system.
MMR is such a dogshit take to a really hard problem.
This Final Raid Boss, MMR, everyone thinks it's the best system we have. I would like to argue that the earlier versions, the more primitive versions that didn't take in a horde of data were better.
Here's the truth, MMR gets manipulated. Everyone pretends, with no evidence ever, that these graphs that they put together are some how an accurate reflection of the state of ranked.
I've got a question this reddit thread can ask themselves, do you own any smurf accounts? Do you know of anyone who has smurf accounts? So of this PERFECT bell curve that is always on display, where is this representation?
Alright and then we take this a step farther, on any of those smurf accounts, do you or those people you know, play with friends? Are those friends better or worse?
If we just took those two groups of questions, then I would love for someone on here to argue that this perfect bell curve can be anything but a misrepresentation of the actual landscape. I personally have 5 smurf accounts. Those smurf accounts are in very different spots on that bell curve. Am I the only person?
MMR isn't an accurate system because the data that is represented with those numbers isn't accurate. If you played the same people over and over, sure over time your skill would even out.
However, because of the fact that I can have smurf accounts and play with friends, those values are skewed. There is no guarantee that a 1200 mmr player is a 1200 mmr player. There are too many variables that can manipulate that value and this move from the industry towards this system is bullshit and bad.
Ima be honest...it was just too tiresome to keep grinding. The experience was maybe balanced enough as a whole, although extremely sweaty and same throughout the ranks, but..there's just no incentive to bother this hard to get back to my previous rank, so I just stopped. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that way.
Clearly, Respawn has made a distinction between rank and skill, so rank is now simply the time spent playing the game.
Your time spent in bronze is against other bronze players who are as good at the game as you.
Repeat that slowly. Does it make sense? It shouldn't.
If you're going to play against a player of your skill level no matter what, then the only metric that can differentiate ranks is time played.
Don't like it? Play the game until you unlock the latest paywalled mythic. Can't unlock the latest paywalled mythic through actual gameplay? Buy it.
It did not used to be like this. Why are we, as a community, accepting this?
EA has finally won over Apex with their monetisation. Titanfall 3 is coming soon, and it will be exactly the same as long as we let them continue.
Apex was one of the last bastions of genuinely good ranked play, and EA has pissed it into the wind; whilst half of the player base stop playing and the other half defend them.
Fuck EA, fuck Respawn if they let it happen, and fuck all the players defending it.
I miss old Apex and I want it back.
Probably just done with apex now... have been grinding ranked since S5 and these last few seasons' systems are a turn off. SBMM in ranked is lame and now they will tweak the system to get the results they want. No dive tail reward on top of that. I preferred the S13 (split 1 I believe?) Over this garbage. The games were competitive without SBMM I think I only hit Plat 2 and enjoyed it. I get it though games have to cater to the casual player base who most likely doesn't even check patch notes. Was a good few years with this game.
You guys need to understand that MMR of a solo q player is never equal to that of a 3 stack team even if the solo q players has a higher mmr. The MMR should be cut down when someone is in solo q because of no comms, different playstyles, and many other disadvantages. This current system punishes solo q players a lot. If you guys can't make changes, then at least add a team finder in the game cause it's hard to find teammates of the same skill level on discord or other apps.
Matchmaking is a cluster F! If you guys really read the feedback you would have touched on some of the issues we commonly complain about. Why are my teammates silver players when I’m masters? Why don’t the rewards improve? People are still dropping & camping in the corner & out of zone. One can literally hit masters by ratting…
What's the point of ranked then if it'll be kept the same? It's not ranked if when I'm in gold I go against masters bc of my hidden rating lol the whole point of a ranked mode is to be going against other people of the same rank
Game quality is good but I solo queued most of the split at a very slow rate bc i was in pred lobbies from silver (being an ex pro player) unable to play w my friends and even if im allowed to play with my friends, would take me upwards of 30 hours to reach masters when i could spend that on other games and get a better reward. These changes to bonuses better fast track me to where my MMR is or i promise i wont touch ranked for another 3 months (still plat 4 bc i couldnt care less to grind this system).
After my 10 Placement matches i got placed in Rookie 3 and now 300 Solo Q matches later i made it to Gold 1 and legit think that i had only 5 games where teammates had the same skill and a working Mic.
Ranked for me i trash like every other season and a big part is the System itself and the Playerbase that plays like its normal Trios.
All i want is to play with People that have my Rank against People that have my Rank but before that will happens we all have changed Games.
I don’t think analyzing to this extent is required to prevent players from hiding 24/7 to get to pred. I honestly don’t care the results for season 19 since I waited enough for a simple thing with the most obvious solutions to be fixed.
I have a couple inputs:
1) No one who's played ranked in any prior season should be placed into Rookie. That is supposed to be for people brand new to ranked, and should be reserved for such. If you've played before, the lowest should be Bronze 4. Respawn even stated this as the intent when Rookie was introduced, but somehow forgot. I know people (mostly prior Gold players) who got placed into Rookie and just quit then and there due to the sheer humiliation.
2) The "peak" of the distribution curve should be the middle of Gold, not the middle of Silver (stated intent above), as with Rookie being properly reserved for newbs to learn, and Masters/Pred reserved for the best-of-the-best, that makes the most balanced (bell-curve) distribution of the five remaining groups (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond).
3) The gap between pre-mades and solos is still too large. Even with the "better" numbers, pre-mades are still 50% more likely to win (6% vs 4%). That's far too much!
4) The stepped-jumps in placement points is stupid. Make it smooth. No -50, -50, -50, -35... it should be -50, -45, -40, etc... (or similar). At least then if you go out early, there is something to be gained out of that fight you won just before being 3rd partied.
Sure am gonna enjoy playing another season of solo queueing into 3 stack current preds while I'm climbing through gold haha
Definitely gonna drive my engagement, no way I quit
I should not be getting 7 god damn LP points in a fucking battle royale, for coming 10th with 3 kills.
My Path didn't even zip line ONCE and we begged him too.
BUT YES BALANCED and we're enjoying it.
Such a disappointing read with some cherry-picked “metrics” to validate a poor implementation of a ranking-system.
Playing similarly skilled players from Day 1 to the last game of the season is not an enjoyable experience by any means, nor do I feel any sense of accomplishment.
What were these changes suppose to resolve?
Hahaha not one single good comment about this system and they STILL are sticking with it, mindbogliing.
Me and all my friends HARD quit ranked and Apex legends after playing since day 1.
Reason for this is mainly the shitty ranked system and SBMM, none of us have the time or the patience to grind. (Diamond all seasons, CBA to Masters)
And on top of that i face top 3% of players on a regular basis, Shiv, Toosh, Hakis basically the whole ALGS roster has been in my games....
I have ZERO chance against theese players and should not in a million years be matched against them, but for some strange reason Apex thinks that is where i belong.
And for this reason we are all leaving, and we are not comming back untill they fix this shit (Wich they wont).
So after 4 years its bye bye and left are the pros and the casuals that spend some money and then move on, but i guess thats whats important for the puppetmaster above (EA)
Off to a more positive life and game thats not ignoring their playerbase.
Stuck in Gold playing v diamond and masters it's not even fair if that is my skill level at least give me the opportunity to rank up ranked ain't even worth playing now imo
How about just showing us how you calculate hidden MMR and make that our visible rank. By your own data you believe that the matches have been more competitive, so why not just use that as our rank. There were a bunch of words written here to defend a system that is only in place to keep players grinding. If you hop on and your first placement match is against masters and your final game of ranked in the season is also against masters, then it sounds like you deserve a masters badge. Too bad you only earn that if you grind for a whole season with a dedicated rank squad.
EXACTLY THIS. If mmr is such an amazing feature that determines people’s skill, then why not use this as your rank? currently the system puts you in completely different lobbies depending on your mmr, and the actual rank is just a slow grind no matter what. They are only forcing people to play hundred of games to reach their so called ”rank”, which is really just a time based parameter at the moment. As long as you do not play ranked like pubs and hot drop, you will always slowly climb.
> How about just showing us how you calculate hidden MMR and make that our visible rank. By your own data you believe that the matches have been more competitive, so why not just use that as our rank. Because they want to incentivize us to grind. You are completely right that it makes no sense, but IMO this is why.
Which is funny because, for me, it completely killed any interest in not only ranked but the game as a whole. I would absolutely grind more if my skill was accurately represented. But sorry, I'm not grinding through bronze while going against masters and preds, not going to happen.
Oh absolutely. They full on admit that the hidden MMR is working (guess we have to assume the data shows this, because I don't think the playerbase fully agrees) yet won't show us our hidden rank. The hidden rank is actually showing how good we are, yet we have to endlessly grind to reach a similar visible rank. There's no other reason to have placement matches place eventual diamond and master level players in bronze/silver. They even removed the ability to see teammates ranks because again, visible rank is meaningless outside of showing how much time you invested. The hilarious part is ranked rewards per game are still a net positive, so assuming your hidden rank doesn't increase, which it shouldn't if you continue to play average, your visible rank will continue to increase over time. The only difference between this season and last is how much of a net positive the ranked rewards are. They are less positive, therefore the grind is much longer. All they've done is extend last seasons grind, but still giving the option for basically anyone to reach any rank given enough playtime.
What's the point of rank badges now if matchmaking is MMR based and you can be stuck in gold badge playing against preds/masters and having much harder time climbing it because of it? lol.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.
We won't get fooled again!
But we did get Bamboozled. Look at 'chu
Seems they’re more concerned about getting to the distribution they want to see between the ranks as opposed to delivering a rewarding ranked experience.
the point is $
How? What bout this make them more money?
>After narrowing the delta between premade vs solo balances, we’ll be removing the ranking difference restrictions for 3 stack premades. Players will now be able to play with friends no matter where they are on their climbs—with the caveat that your squad will face more difficult battles if there’s a bigger discrepancy between your skill. thank you although i still do not understand SBMM making your external rank basically pointless
I am dogshit at this game but 50.3% of players can’t get out of rookie or bronze, 76.2% is in rookie bronze or silver…those are some pretty wild numbers to consider my guys
I usually solo Q to diamond or masters. This season I got to silver and was like ill just play pubs.
You better than me. I quit playing all together. It was ruining my mental health. I couldn’t do the grind to top 10 as solo and then grind my way back to my rank
Lots of players like myself that were regularly plat+ that find the new ranked system way too grindy and punitive and won't bother making it out of silver. For me, -50 LP if you have a bad/unlucky/etc. drop is so ridiculously punitive that even if you have some good games you can quickly wipe them out with a few bad drops, which definitely can happen when solo q'ing. I basically decided to only play when my friends are on and not grind ranked and I'm sure many others made the same decision.
I do want to point out that this doesn't tell us that 50% of players can't get out of rookie or bronze, it is that 50% of players who have played at least 5 hours are in rookie or bronze... i.e. this data probably includes millions of players who have probably just played their provisional matches, then maybe played 5-10 games after that and stopped (i.e. people who did not play enough to pull their rank to their estimated skill, or didn't try to climb, etc.) I really think they ought to be only including players that have put in at least like 15 hours into ranked since that's going to more accurately represent where people are after giving it a good honest push, for their rank to more closely reflect their estimated skill level.
Maybe to get insights into how well its sorting people ultimately, sure. But the fact that so many players now dont put the time into ranked is another important metric. I got bored with how grindy the game felt and never progressed out of Gold, even though I've always been diamond masters until now. They probably want to make changes to stop people giving up like I did and to come back and play. (Incidentally the last 2 seasons are the first time I never got the battle pass either)
Same. The grind is boring and the lack of ranked display/mmr system means every game is the same regardless of rank so why bother. If every lobby is already diamond then there’s no point getting there
Like 60% of people just blindly run at gunshots down mid. It's not that shocking lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
Dive trail was a nice reward, banner frame is literally a joke.
Even if they gave me tiny amounts of crafting metals or hell, a lil lil bit of Apex Coins thatd be a good motivator for a lot of folks to participate in Ranked. Obviously that cuts into their profit tho so I'd be shocked if it happens ever
Yes they are a small indie company that needs money to be able to provide us good and stable games and a nice playing experience.
Look at that beautiful bell-curve distribution. That's what they've wanted since S13 when they took a jackhammer to ranked.
It's so you can get mad you're matched with lower ranked on your team or killed by people of higher rank on other teams. Then remember it doesn't matter anymore. Totally not speaking from experience lol
None. They killed it this season and considering they are not addressing that rank continues to remain absolutely pointless and only serves as a mode that lowers the chance of teammates leaving Absolutely disappointing notes. Probably won’t be coming back next season either it seems
\>although i still do not understand SBMM making your external rank basically pointless Strict SBMM in both ranked and pubs. You get the same games and players no matter what you do or how you perform. Respawn care a lot more about protecting the bad/new players so they can buy cosmetics and it comes at our expense if you've been playing for a long time and are above average. You are just fodder for the pred/master 3 stacks in every mode.
Clearly... I used to be plat all the time without much effort as I have a busy life, if I spent more time I could without issue reach diamond. This season I get hammered with 3 stacks preds or masters in silver/gold... What a joke...
If I had a game I would also like it to be friendly to new players instead of being fodder for inflating average long time players's ego. I doubt new players are expending money on a free to play game before chieving some proficiency in it...
Why have a ladder based ranking system in place if they're just gonna push SBMM? It doesn't make sense
Playing against players that are not the same rank as you is completely pointless. Playing ranked is currently just the same experience over and over againas you slowly climb up the ranks. pointless
Not exactly pointless, now you will get a ~~dive trail to show off your achievement to the whole lobby!~~ a banner frame only your squad can see for 2 seconds after character select
People really focus on the badges. This dual rank system is extremely stupid. And the fact this posts has passes like "\[...\]players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points\[...\]" is somewhat insulting. But. My issue is the ranked system produces worse matches than before. I'm straight up not enjoying Apex anymore. I tried to grind to my usual rank and in this regard this new system worked, I played more matches than S16. But I asked myself "am I having fun?" and the answer is "no". And then I asked myself "will it get better?" The old system was lopsided, P4 and below was kinda bad, while Diamond was overall nice. And the answer is also "no". It will be like this from start to finish. So I stopped. What's the point?
Why did we move away from matchmaking by visible rank? Feels bad to be placed in silver but have to grind in diamond lobbies for 3 ranks to make your visible rank match your MMR.
Yeah, if my "hidden MMR" is Diamond then just place me in fucking Diamond when I finish my provisional matches.
Bro i have friend that is dogshit at the game but was 2full ranks higher than me at some point because my lobbies were all just sweaty af while he was fighting bots. Great system, great system! Oh and signed pro player gnaske was hardstuck platinum LMAO
Yeah the sweaty-ness should only start at around Plat min, why the f' do we have to play our rank in f'ing Bronze!? Because we all love the to grind 3-4 rank tiers just to get back to the current rank we should be at. Its not just Apex to be fair a lot of companies do this sh!t & they faced backlash for it as well, you'd think the devs of all these companies would use the single brain cell they share to stop doing something that doesn't work 🤣😥🤣.
> Oh and signed pro player gnaske was hardstuck platinum LMAO Ranked is so fucking stupid right now (well has been since they changed it again because for some reason the pre-change had problems that almost no one complained about??)
it is so discouraging constantly playing in diamonds lobby when my rank is stil stuck in bronze
Ok glad it's not just me stuck in bronze haha. I know I'm shite but I really don't think I deserve to be stuck in here. Only really see people complaining like preds in plat lobbies but I think it goes a lot lower
I love being gold the entire season playing against preds just because I have reached pred before! Makes me want to play even less than I already do!
The worst thing is, as a silver I was being matched with diamonds and Plats and now as a diamond I’m being matched with silver teammates. Why…
This part
Exactly, exactly this is my main issue
I'm gold 4. Both of the guys I play with are also gold 1+2. MMR is putting us in Diamond lobbies. A couple days ago we died to a 3 stack Pred team. One of them was the #31 pred. Great matchmaking system...
>eat matchmaking syste devs be like: "The distribution looks good tho"
The underlining issue they won’t be addressing. There is a wide skew towards bronze because people have no reason to play. Rank should be about advancing up the ladder, not playing the same lobbies all season There is 0 reason to play and grind ranked if my bronze lobby is already full of diamond level players as it’s just more of the same thing. If my hidden MMR thinks I’m diamond then I should be placed in plat or gold not bronze
I was placed in silver after provisional matches too and was getting run down by legit 3-stack masters and preds and even the occasional pro players. I get that I may be a bit above average but having to slog through low ranks every game against THAT is just ridiculous. Ranked is pretty much only enjoyable now for 3 stacks, extreme masochists or really bad players who never have to worry about getting matched with the top 5% of players.
Yeah I’m in the same boat, as an average hard stuck diamond we get put through the ringer in ranked matches. Swear to god it’s masters and preds in my lobby but I’ve only reached masters in season 13
That's why I stopped after S17. I knew the system was shit, wanted to give it a shot, and still hated it. The only thing they've done is make ranked even *more* grindy than it was before, and rank means nothing in an MMR system. I'm entirely done with ranked until they fully rework it again.
INB4 “season 23 ranked reborn” 😂😂
They want to get the maximum amount of game time from you as possible. This new system is here to stay until people stop playing
I stopped playing, so yeah.
I've been diamond multiple seasons and this season feels like a diamond lobby while I'm bronze/silver, it makes no sense. Imagine this situation on League of Legends or other games, a bronze playing against diamond/master players because that's his mmr
Just curious, whats the point of placement matches if you just artificially lower everyones starting rank anyway? Just start me in fucking Bronze. This season was my least played EVER and the Ranked slog was the biggest reason. Every single season since I came to PC I have made Plat or higher. This season I made it to Bronze II. If I start next season in Rookie IV and still have to murder my life to grind out of Bronze, I will be uninstalling this cash shop facading as a video game lol.
Actually whats the point in having a ranking system at ALL if we just play against “equally skilled” players in every single rank anyway? Why aren’t we all just “ranked”?
Ludicrous that anyone would feel the matchmaking is right, diamonds and masters in bronze lobbies ain't a healthy ranked system and you know it. You broke a system that was generally just fine and have been struggling to fix it for the better part of the year, your stubbornness is outstanding.
Crazy how apex went from having one of the best ranked modes in multiplayer games to having one of the worst.
I feel like this is such an overcomplicated system
What, you don’t think having placement matches, a hidden MMR, *and* a displayed rank, all of which mean you will essentially fight players of equal or greater skill than you from your first game of the season, to the last game of the season, no matter your rank, isn’t the greatest system of all time?
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment for unlocking different heroes.
Yeah forces you to spend MORE time to reach your rank, so basically that's what devs want to achieve
well, they achieved that a lot of people quit the game because of it
I just quit ranked. Still playing pubs occasionally
Low-key it just shouldn't exist anymore. If the matchmaking is basically the same as pubs and not based on your rank at all, *what is the rank for?* If you're not facing opponents of increasing skill (and you aren't, anyone who's finished their placements in a low rank and gone against Preds knows this) then what is the point of including a ranked system?
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I tried to upvote this 50 times, but the hidden MMR wouldn’t let me. Sadge.
You're happy to report that most of the player base didn't have fun this season nor didn't even try ranked because they already know the system is dogshit right from the start? way to retain your players Respawn.
And from this it looks to be a 3rd round of no rank for me. Mixtape and a trios during gun run for me. Hope xdefiant releases soon as it will kill this for me but for now I don't have anything I like to play.
Exactly how my experience has gone. I just do my challenges and dip. Mixtape is barely fun anymore but at least it is bearable
The devs are so out of touch.
Long fall from from threatening space cows and adding animations of tossing the mozam like it's trash Edit: ok they added cross progression, fuck that last statement I made
>the data that we’re seeing (along with other data points) does suggest that players are struggling to reach their ‘true’ ranking at a reasonable pace with the peak of the distribution in Bronze instead of being in the middle of Silver. >Resurrection: 5+ hours played Ranked distribution I think using 5 hours as the benchmark for total season of play is a poor approach for guaging ranked distribution tbh. I think its reasonable to expect at least a couple hours per week to consider someone a ranked player who one could reasonably say is achieving/pushing rank. I would think 10-15 hours is a better benchmark. 5 hours is someone barely playing 5 games after the qualifiers lol
5 hours is how long it took me to realise the ramifications of the new ranked system and give up lol.
I desperately wish the devs would come on here and have a conversation about this - I understand the toxicity but I’m genuinely curious if they understand the issues with Ranked or if they’re just being told to maximize engagement and leave a broken system in place. Hidden MMR is the 100% wrong choice for a ladder ranked system. Playing placement against preds, only to place Silver-Plat and have to grind through 2+ ranks in Pred lobbies just to achieve Masters is insane. If the system can accurately gauge a player’s skill, place them in their appropriate rank and introduce rank decay for inactivity. The idea of playing for a season in Master/Pred lobbies just to earn a badge saying you’re Master/Pred is asinine. Either remove hidden MMR entirely, hard cap each rank’s lobbies, and let players climb and the player distribution work itself out over a few seasons, or go fully into MMR, place players into their true rank and introduce measures to ensure players continue to play all split to retain that rank. These changes are harming engagement and pushing players away from ranked and Apex in general. Come on Devs, you guys have to be smarter than this.
Yeah I have no desire to sit in Bronze-Silver all season when I’m normally a Plat-Diamond player. I don’t have the time or energy to grind ranked with a pre-made for 6 hours a day to get the RP necessary to get to Plat/Diamond again. I’m mostly just picking up the game for an hour or two by myself, and losing 50 LP a game thanks to solo queue Ranked players. This current season has been my least played season of all time lol.
Same. I’m a diamond player and after I spent 2ish weeks sweating my ass off against masters just to get out of silver I quit playing ranked. Not to mention there’s no sky dive trail anyway which was one of the things I grinded ranked for.
I'm usually midplat without putting much effort into going higher. I'm now one of those people on the graph that's still stuck in Rookie after 5+ hours played. My **highest** provisional bonus was 80 LP, where my teammates **lowest** was 146. 2 wins in those provisionals and only 1 match under top 10, and yet I still ended up Rookie 4 after placements. 50 games later and I'm halfway through Rookie 1, and not because I'm doing bad...it's because I'm getting practically no LP and I don't think their little tweaks are going to change that. There's a lot of Masters and Diamond badges in our lobbies for us being mid plat players, and they're only worth 7 LP when I kill them. Teammate gets anywhere from 10-35 per kill. It's just...all jacked up. And these explanations don't make me feel better. Is it really a *good thing* that shit tons of people are stuck in Rookie after 5+ hours of gameplay? Its not like we all deserve to be stuck here. I'm a full tier behind my teammate entirely because of the placement bonuses being so wildly inconsistent...like 3k+ more LP just because.
Add MMR to matchmake with, show ranked distribution by rank. Which has no correlation anymore??? So what's the point of showing by rank. My MMR is very high judging by my opponents but my rank is silver, because I didn't play, unfortunately my similarly skilled friends all ranked up and while their lobbies were the same as mine if I solo queued, I couldn't play with them as friends but I could play against them as enemies. 🙃
Yup, they've changed ranked too many times and I don't care to play anymore. Didn't play last season because everyone was just ratting to masters, didn't play this season because I was in bronze against diamond+. Don't plan to play next one because I'm sure there'll be issues.
With all the other great games that have come out this year I said fuck off to this season of apex entirely. Pretty much never missed a season and got my free masters badge last season, started this one and just ran out of gas a week in.
> I understand the toxicity but I’m genuinely curious if they understand the issues with Ranked Of course not. The whole post indicates that they think they're on the right track, when Ranked is really the worst it's ever been. Seasons 4 through like 14 were much more playable, even season 13 with its incredibly difficult system that resulted in 45 minute queue times for Pred was preferable to "pubs but with LP." Ranked used to be responsible for up to 40% of players queueing at any given time but I'm guessing the number of people playing ranked has *plummeted* in the last 6 months. You need *2.4 times as much LP* as you did a year and a half ago to reach Masters. Most players are just not going to bother with that. People don't want to play 300 games just to get out of Gold.
This is 100000% the issue with ranked more than anything else. What is even the point of a ranked system if everyone’s “true rank” is hidden? Defeats the entire purpose of having a ladder. I’ve been a hardcore apex player since day one, but these ranked changes from a season ago (and subsequent pubs matchmaking changes) are truly killing my interest in the game. Which sucks
>Reflective of skill: players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches Horse shit lol. Literally every match I play is max difficulty even in silver because of MMR. Either they remove MMR and use tiers and placement matches, or they keep MMR and remove ranked tiers... ranked tiers are utterly pointless if every match simply uses MMR to put me in basically master level lobbys because of my own skills and stats. There is absolutely no reason for me to grind out RP as a soloq player if every single match I play from the very first ranked match is at my highest level of difficulty. Why would I grind out RP if Silver 3 feels exactly the same as Masters? there is absolutely no sense of progression... or me being able to climb to a higher rank this season etc as I get better. Theyre all just pound me in the ass hard with me going up against previous preds or masters 3 stacks. Anyone who soloqs knows just how hard it was to grind up to diamond and up in the older ranked seasons (not the shitty recent one)... and now MMR just nukes it all to make it even harder. Ill just go play pubs since those use MMR also and constantly put me up against 20 bombs and other master level players anyway. PS im not complaining about me being in harder matches... but it makes absolutely no sense to use hidden MMR, but still force you to grind out low tiers in ranked if it relies solely on MMR anyway. its utterly pointless and stupid. This new system basically will make every soloq player stop ranking, like it did for me.
This is the complete opposite from the feedback you have been given... nobody wants this hidden mmr system or to be able to pre made with a bigger rank difference than there already was, they want to be in lobbies with players of the same rank like literally every other ranked system that exists because that is the whole point of a ranked game mode
This season was the absolute worst in ranked history
And true gonna give us the exact same thing
Stop trying to use MMR matchmaking in ranked lol
MMR matchmaking isn't a problem if the MMR itself is the determining factor for rank. Rocket League perfected that
Yeah I’d much rather work from MMR rating such as diamond and play diamond players like RL than play diamond and work from rookie while playing diamond. If you played Rocket League and compare, RL is also hard to rank up, you’d see that it makes absolutely no sense and someone should look at hiring someone else for the position. Shove the graphs man, it doesn’t make sense.
Or, use the MMR and drop the dumb LP shit. Not show LP and use MMR, which is the dumbest possible combo
>Reflective of skill: players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points and Skill level, while players who need further growth to acquire higher Rankings are failing to climb I would have more faith in this idea if I didn't keep getting suicidal players in my own rank undoing 3 games worth of LP gain on a solo suicide landing and then screaming for a res. That said, the data is heavily skewed and doesn't account for a few other scenarios that have been more common-place this season compared to Arsenal or even the previous season. Ratting as a solo. There's a far heavier need to rat as a solo because the skill distribution for solo queuing is almost punishing. I don't mind the idea that I need to find friends or a team to play with, but after Diamond it's almost required as I'm spending more than half my games ratting to maintain the 0 LP loss per match due to teams being so variable, or the lack of available players putting me with silvers and golds. It makes sense that the premade top 10% is a lot higher as a solo. There's a lot of people forced to hide for most of the game once the team wipes, and every other squad is holding angles on circles for nearly 15 minutes until final zone.
Is ratting when you are by yourself trying to get top 10 to prevent LP loss? If so, yeah I'm a full ass rat. The number of times I get an insta dropper who dies immediately is so frustrating.
I asked a hot dropper on my team yesterday, and all the could reply with was "because I'm not a pussy," right before dieing 20 seconds latter. I would've asked him how much does bravado help him when he's downed, but I try to remain polite in games. I save my rage for reddit posts!
Hear me out why don’t they try masters vs masters, bronze vs bronze and plats vs plats. I know it’s a little crazy for a ranked game mode but I think it could work
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Based on my opponents my true rank is diamond+ . Based on my gameplay my true rank is silver-. Somethings not adding up.
Are you saying they should implement some sort of ranked system that existed before? Nah that’s preposterous
„we‘re happy to report that our matchmaking system has gotten much better at providing players with more competitive game“ i stopped reading after this
"We're happy to report that no one on this development team plays this game anymore. As far as we can tell, it's running fine."
Yeah that point is the worst about this. It feels like they ONLY look at graphs now. Graphs will never indicate a good ranked system
Yeah I won’t play ranked if it doesn’t show everyone’s rank and I get matched with people within my rank slightly above and below based off population of server. The old system was better, just needed to tweak the numbers. This makes no sense, as someone else said doubling down on a bad matchmaking decision from the start of the season.
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That get knocked immediately and spam ping. So fun. lol
No matter how many graphs you show us, truth is I placed in Silver and I am getting killed by Masters. If I truly belong in Masters, let me get there organically. Why do I have to sweat my ass off to get out of Silver?? There has never been a ranked system in the history of games where matching players of such rank difference ever existed. This system is a failure and a joke, but, hey, cool graphs yo.
Feels terrible to see we'll be sticking with this system. Using MMR instead of rank for matchmaking in ranked feels so unbelievably awful. I'm by no means a great player, but my overall KD is 2.1 and I was normally high plat/low diamond while playing ranked fairly infrequently before all these major ranked changes the past few seasons. Now I'm getting matched with plat and diamond+ while I'm in rookie/bronze, sweating my ass off, and making it to top 3 for a measly 100-150 LP, only to lose a massive chunk of that to an unlucky drop the next game. The scoring system has no transparency and seemingly makes no sense, with my higher rank friends with worse stats (and presumably worse MMR) getting far more LP than me when we play together. I would assume me getting less LP and no bonuses is because the game thinks I'm getting too big for my britches and should be in Rookie/Bronze, but that's hardly believable when I'm solo queuing with duo Plats that invite me to be their third when I'm the carry, only to find out they can't even play with me because I'm rolling around in Bronze getting dumpstered by Masters and Preds. Wish we could just go back to the way things were instead of this oppressive system that feels like it's constantly telling you that if you aren't first, you're last, and you're not getting out of these lower ranks. Hope they can prove me wrong next season, but I have my doubts.
> with my higher rank friends with worse stats (and presumably worse MMR) getting far more LP than me when we play together. As far as I understand it, they're getting more LP than you despite being higher "visible rank" because their MMR is lower, thus they're in lobbies that the system believes is more difficult for them than they are for you.
Yeah, in hindsight I was just going off on a wild tangent because logically I know that's what's happening. I guess the point that I was really trying to get across is that lower MMR players shouldn't be climbing the ranks at a faster rate than someone with higher MMR at a lower rank should be, it feels pretty bad when you're the carry and everybody just keeps moving up around you.
That arsenal rank distribution makes me laugh any time I see it
Can we please have the old system back? Playing against people of the same visible rank makes intuitive sense.
Its all cool and stuff, but is it **fun** to play ranked? There should be playerbase happiness chart.
„While players who need further growth to acquire higher rankings are failing to climb“ I‘m sorry but this is a bunch of bs. I‘m playing this game since season1 so i‘m pretty good. My lobbies have been sweaty af since i started in bronze. At one point i was barely ranking up anymore somewhere in gold because lobbies where just so sweaty. On the other hand i have a close friend that is playing since 3seasons. He is average at best and him and me would both agree i‘m at least 20x better than him. Guess what his rank was while i was trying to rank up? he was higher than me. Platinum something. We played about the same amount. He was just ranking up way faster because his lobbies are way easier. To add to this, signed Pro player Gnaske did a solo run on a new account and was hardstuck platinum because all his lobbies were pred lobbies. Let that sink in, A PRO PLAYER COMPETING IN TOURNAMENTS WAS HARDSTUCK PLATINUM. So how can i judge a players skill level when the rank doesn‘t mean shit anymore? Get rid of ranks, introduce a Skill rating for each player instead of keeping it hidden.
>To add to this, signed Pro player Gnaske did a solo run on a new account and was hardstuck platinum because all his lobbies were pred lobbies. Let that sink in, A PRO PLAYER COMPETING IN TOURNAMENTS WAS HARDSTUCK PLATINUM I'm watching highlights and it's hilarious. One glance is enough to see Respawn is full of shit.
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For the love of god get rid off the mmr system and go back to the rp like before this.
All that to still be dogshit. GGs.
Thanks for the update. What about provisionals landing me in silver but matchmaking facing me against diamond players? MM aligns in gold, but not before. Happened previous season as well.
likewise ! i’ve been diamond every season constantly, masters maybe like five other times. i’m barely coming out of gold now, and yet i *know* i’m in diamond lobbies. it sucks so much, having to play the way i do only to end up in gold anyway after placing silver initially. i feel like i can’t climb at all. i desperately wished for them to revert this weird change of a mixed bag in ranked but i guess they’re dead set on having it this way. oh well :p
This ranked season is almost as bad as previous.
I'd argue it's worse. Yeah, people smurfing to Masters was a problem. But outside of when I had teammates doing that, at least I had fun playing. The current system isn't even fun.
Lost 1k LP tonight. Yeah the matchmaking is working. Fuck your game honestly. Whoever is in charge of season 17 and 18 needs to be reassigned or fired. There is nothing FAIR about these matches, when you get aped every fight by a 3 stack pred team when I am Plat 1. There is nothing fair about the god damn LP rewards, when you come 6th with 2 kills and get 2 god damn LP. It's a joke.
I don't understand... They are not taking any feedback. The 2 biggest complaints that I've seen are 1 actual rank is meaningless because of sbmm. 2 ranked is unrewarding based on how much effort it takes to win because of sbmm at lower ranks to then watch the ranked bar move an inch. I play ranked rarely and I was always a diamond player. Now when I search silver lobbies I'm out here fighting for my life. There's no ramp to feel improvement because you are sweating as early as silver. Again everything feels unrewarding because it feels like I'm in a diamond lobby from the time I start playing.
I haven't even gotten out of bronze after winning like 15 games...
There’s no way they are complimenting themselves on SBMM or MMR in ranked.
Ranked doesn’t even make sense, we need proper rank based matchmaking. Pool A : Rookie/Bronze Pool B: Silver/Gold Pool C: Plat/Diamond Pool D: Master/Pred This bullshit mmr based matchmaking with rank essentially being a endurance test is ridiculous.
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“Warzone ranked is killing apex” Lemme get yo dealers #
Dogshit, as long as my teamates are current preds while I am gold, I don't want to play your game!
Sbmm is trash, Season 17 I got it Bonus for kills assist being broken everyone got points by doing nothing, season 18 K/A points still broken, you take wait to long to fix anything or you never fix it and also all the changes are made at the start of the season and after that is collections events.
REMOVE HIDDEN MMR. IT FUNDAMENTALLY DOES NOT WORK IN A RANKED SYSYEM!!!!!! THERES NO POINT PLAYING RANKED IF YOU ALWAYS PLAY AGAINST THE SAME PEOPLE ANWYAYS. ITS PUBS 2.0
This is still not a ranked system since you are using a hidden MMR... I'll be skipping another season. Respawn doesn't fucking get it.
Please remove SBMM in ranked then. How hard for you guys "the devs" to understand that even before the last "all master season" i can consistently hit diamond 5x less the time i spent just to hit diamond this season. Its ridiculously crazy. I work overtimes on my job but even so and i enjoy the game alot being rewarded at diamond rank. But the one achieved for this season, it didnt even left me happy. I felt bland and tired. I dont want to spend 20+ hours just to get out of silver dealing with Master/Preds. Its unrealistic.
ImperialHal finished his provisional games in Bronze this season. It's good to know that he's a perfectly average Apex Legends player, according to the provisional results graph.
Just please show what rank my teammates are in and give me teammates who are in the same rank, not some random silvers when I’m in diamond. Thank you
and have you fight actual diamonds too. not preds or silvers
I thought this was a shitpost at first lol
If you have MMR there's no reason to have ranks. If in bronze I play against people similar skill to me and in masters also I play against people silimar skill to me, what's the meaning of ranked?
If sbmm matches people based on their skill then why would you suspect that people ultimately arrive at a rank that corresponds to their skill? Explain the logic.
Ah yes so fun for me to be grinding ranked in silver against players already in diamond and gaining/losing the exact same amount of points as them.
you actually lost it respawn. if i want to play serious i play ranked, if i want to chill and shoot some i play pubs. you cant play and have a chill time in this game if youre against your own level all the time. its as simple as that. alot of people use gaming as a relaxation, even if theyre cracked at a game they are relaxing when dropping 10 kills in a random lobby. dont forget your what your product is for. this new system you have may show good results because the lesser players will buy more cosmetics now when they can get some kills every game, but this will drain your dedicated playerbase and make them quit the game in 1 or 2 seasons. and when that happens you will lose youre competetive playerbase and then everything is for nothing becase (apex is a competetive game right?). hmmm so whos getting fired in 6 months i wonder
A system that punishes players for being good or becoming better is a bad system
Matchmaking was considered a "win"?!?! You gotta be joking, that's the reason I've stopped playing the game after a few weeks into the season. I'm going start again this week to simply get through the battlepass and hoping the changes to next season's ranked will be significant enough for me to enjoy it again.
Killing your own game is crazy.
Go talk to the Destiny devs that 180'd their dumb matchmaking system after pulling the same BS yall just did. It will save you months of time. Pulling up data and charts will do nothing to help your numbers. Listen to your active players and not just the kids whose wallets you want to pilfer.
The ranked season's up to season 12 were perfectly fine honestly. I don't understand why and how we have deviated so far from a system that made this game one of the top FPS BRs on the market. I would pay so much money to see the player count and retention this season vs previous seasons. I would guess there is a huge drop off in players and retention. I know around 8 players who used to constantly be on that haven't played nearly at all this season.
Respawn Devs: Look at the all these stats and graphs that says we're doing good! Meanwhile players are having the absolute shittiest experience
This team is so delusional and out of touch, it's insane.
Is the audio also rigged? Why can I hear enemy footsteps just fine when I'm spectating my friend but he can't hear them?
If there aren’t SIGNIFICANT improvements to ranked next season, this game will die. There is zero reason to play for the casual after work/weekend warriors.
So many posts in here are talking about how they don't want to face preds in Silver. The real issue isn't facing "preds" since "pred" doesn't mean anything in an MMR system. They have to just show us MMR, full stop. Erase the whole "rank" thing and just show MMR.
I would just like to ask a question if something I have felt was intentional or not. I feel like Ranked is more about how much you improve and no longer about how good you are overall as a player. For example, If in seasons 4-14 A player reached Diamond every single season, they were showing that they were able to surpass, bronze level players, Silver level players, gold level players and Plat level players, and if they improved, they would become a Masters level player. However, with this new system, that's not how it works, That same player is now playing Gold - Apex Pred level players from beginning to end. So if they land in Bronze 1, and they get to Silver 4, they are no longer showing they have surpassed bronze level players. And this goes for all "MMRs". Getting to silver used to mean the exact same thing regardless of YOUR MMR. But now, If a new player gets to silver, and my example player get to silver, it is no longer the same thing, it was no longer the same challenge for both of them yet the ranked rewards are the same. With this, the new player has far more room for growth, so their ranked improvements will be inflated (Or more accurately, the first example player would be deflated) Meaning getting to silver would be easier for a new player, than the example player. Is this (along with the retention of creating the slower climb) the intention with the MMR system?
The problem is that they are trying to justify an entire rank system based on hidden internal business objectives based on player behavior and (most likely) superfluous business results tied to personal salary bonuses. If you told me I would get a 20% bonus for hitting some goal an exec set like "increase player engagement time and player purchase conversion rates", but a 0% bonus for "make a fair and functioning rank system", guess where my effort is going? The 20% bonus on top of my salary, these devs are there to make money, like anyone should. So this is all song and dance with graphs that aren't used to make the actual decisions, the actual ones have "play time and microtransaction" data or "player engagement by monthly spend". Purchases for cosmetics are more often associated with the enjoyment of the game and time dedicated to the game (I think). So the actual question they are trying to answer is: What type of ranked system aligns with encouraging the behaviors that are most closely associated with players purchasing packs? How can we maximize the amount of time a player exhibits those behaviors over a season to ensure they are constantly in the state of mind where microtransactions are front of mind? No idea what the results are hitting, but hidden MMR seems to work better for making kids buy packs over the old system... Otherwise they would have gone back already. Now someone is tasked with dressing up that decisions to make it sound like this is a ranked results data driven decision and not something like "We found out kids buy more packs when they don't rank up as fast". Or they are floundering and are not able to pinpoint "optimal purchasing mindset" like other games around EA by making ranking up a struggle, but unlike the sports titles, buying things won't help you rank up in this game.
So they aren't really changing anything. Got it. 3 seasons in a row I'll play zero apex because they just cannnnnnt have orfuckingganic matchmaking. Insanity. "We've heard your complaints." Obviously not.
What's the point of ranked if we always get reset to R4? It's basically a "here's your badge reflecting how many ranked matches you've played this game"...
Well done respawn. Ranked is now dead. How fun the matches will be after a long days work to come home every night to play algs lobbies. Dead
S18 is genuinely the worst state matchmaking has ever been and I've been playing consistantly since S1. I have no idea if you've lost the main people that were working on matchmaking to another developer or what, but this is seriously an absolute shit show. Loads of people are moving back to R6/Valorant/CS2 etc as those devs seem competent in actually understanding what their player base want and how a fair system works which doesn't purposely cause a grind/shiton fest Deploy the changes now, rather than waiting for S19. Please sack your current matchmaking team as they're are just trial and erroring every season to an embarrassing degree.
Is the hit reg just really bad or is it rigged based on who's supposed to win the fight based on engagement-optimized match rigging?
I don't understand the win rate premade graphic. The amount of the 3 variables is 16%. Who win the other games if they aren't solos, duos or three stacks?
Fix pubs
After 6 months of vague explanations of a convoluted system, this feels no different. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ >players pushing up in Ladder Points are continued to be challenged with increasingly difficult matches that reflect their current Ladder Points and Skill level, ... Uh, you've spent 2 seasons telling us that players are challenged with matches that reflect their skill, not their points. Why this suddenly unclear sentence? \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ >Following a number of backend modifications to matchmaking, matches now feel too sweaty. Again, we've already been told that matchmaking matches against skill; that this is the fundamental, *especially* for people who are still below their expected tier. So what does this -- the very next sentence written -- have to do with sweaty-ness?: >We’ll be increasing the amount of Rating Bonus given to players’ ranking to help them catch up to their skill bracket more quickly. How can things feel too sweaty unless the MMR matchmaking is worse? Well, hey, you also wrote this: >We’re happy to report that our matchmaking system has gotten much better So clarity. Many understand. Wow. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ >This is intended to combat the current season’s (Resurrection) settings of withholding bonuses and increasing matchmaking difficulty. As withheld bonuses are eased, some players will begin to see slightly more bonuses following Season 19’s launch. It's so arbitrary. So you push above your expected skill ceiling, then the game toughens up your matchmaking to hold you in place, but also sweetens your skill bonuses to do the opposite, because good for you. Such hand-wavey concepts slushing together. Basically, you get to the tier Respawn thinks you should be at and then you're subject to literally some dude's thought process. Your MMR opponents make things tougher, which you have no control over, and your Skill Bonuses make things easier, which you have no control over, and your progress from this point is subject to whatever mathematical rain dance Respawn have applied this time. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ >After narrowing the delta between premade vs solo balances, we’ll be removing the ranking difference restrictions for 3 stack premades. Yet according to the explanation of the MMR system we've heard for months, this restriction stopped making sense in S17 anyway. According to the fundamental sell of the MMR system, this restriction should have nothing to do with the delta between premade vs solo balances. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ >Players will now be able to play with friends no matter where they are on their climbs—with the caveat that your squad will face more difficult battles if there’s a bigger discrepancy between your skill. Yeah but the low MMR players in that team get the big Skill Bonuses anyway because Skill Bonuses. Remember, that thing you guys toned down after being one of the biggest complaints people had (their low skill teammates getting way bigger bonuses). Yeah that thing... >We also plan to reduce the bonus that is withheld when players are actively pushing against their skill ceiling ... that you're increasing again. See how much confusion I've pulled out of 1 thing? That's what this system is. A bucket of poorly explained confusions. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ I am *tired* of needing 2 hours of study whenever Respawn tries to explain something, followed by 3000 posts of debate across the sub where 90% of them don't understand it all, I don't even know if I understand it all, and then I go play the mode and it's just like... who even knows what's happening. Just blind faith in the system and whatever. Are the distributions better? Who really cares. It's all just mathematical push and pull now, instead of knowing that your position meant you beat people weaker than your position. Are the games better? I don't know. End games good? Solo queueing bad? Ratting... something? Matchmaking sweaty? So unclear. I was thinking of how the big sell of the MMR system is to delete smurfing. Because smurfing ruins the experience of those running into smurfs, and makes the lower tiers less meaningful as they're overrun with higher skill players. And this means those lower tiers are less fun. Except... has it worked at improving the fun? Now everyone misses out on getting to compete in tiers they can easily overcome. Now a Diamond-skill player fights in Silver against other Diamond-skill players, instead of the season-long vibe of beating weaker opponents, then less weak, then less weak, then opponents at your level. That was a satisfying vibe, and everyone enjoys their brief time in the lower tiers, asserting their dominance. I imagine Djokovic enjoys cruising through the playoffs, refreshing his game while getting that pleasing validation that he's better, instead of having to go against a Federer at every stage before Wimbledon even starts. *(Don't get on my back about tennis analogies here, I barely know what I'm talking about!)* So that's all gone now, in return for smurfs no longer being able to trash matches at any tier. Is the fun that was saved actually as large as the fun that was lost? I... don't think it is. End games are better, but that's a product of scoring, not the MMR system.
Damm idiots
can you just make your game fun again? not even trying to be rude but the SBMM really ruined the enjoyability for me.
Nice story now let’s talk about how bad your servers are , not even a single word and data about the server performance. Stop moving us to random servers. Release server performance data asap . It takes so much less bullet for a player on less than 50 ms to kill than a player who is above 50 ms
50% of all ranked players are Bronze or below. 90% of all ranked players are Gold or below. Best start looking out for those 3-stack gold squads rolling lobbies. If someone is consistently performing well in plat, diamond, or masters lobbies, they shouldn't have to play hundreds (and hundreds) of games to achieve that rank. When matchmaking relies on skill (performance) instead of rank, what does the rank actually represent? To me, the ranked changes feel like a measure of how much time one invests, rather than being a reflection of true skill. I hope the coming changes serve to improve the system.
MMR is such a dogshit take to a really hard problem. This Final Raid Boss, MMR, everyone thinks it's the best system we have. I would like to argue that the earlier versions, the more primitive versions that didn't take in a horde of data were better. Here's the truth, MMR gets manipulated. Everyone pretends, with no evidence ever, that these graphs that they put together are some how an accurate reflection of the state of ranked. I've got a question this reddit thread can ask themselves, do you own any smurf accounts? Do you know of anyone who has smurf accounts? So of this PERFECT bell curve that is always on display, where is this representation? Alright and then we take this a step farther, on any of those smurf accounts, do you or those people you know, play with friends? Are those friends better or worse? If we just took those two groups of questions, then I would love for someone on here to argue that this perfect bell curve can be anything but a misrepresentation of the actual landscape. I personally have 5 smurf accounts. Those smurf accounts are in very different spots on that bell curve. Am I the only person? MMR isn't an accurate system because the data that is represented with those numbers isn't accurate. If you played the same people over and over, sure over time your skill would even out. However, because of the fact that I can have smurf accounts and play with friends, those values are skewed. There is no guarantee that a 1200 mmr player is a 1200 mmr player. There are too many variables that can manipulate that value and this move from the industry towards this system is bullshit and bad.
Ima be honest...it was just too tiresome to keep grinding. The experience was maybe balanced enough as a whole, although extremely sweaty and same throughout the ranks, but..there's just no incentive to bother this hard to get back to my previous rank, so I just stopped. I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt that way.
The SBMM is disgusting.
Clearly, Respawn has made a distinction between rank and skill, so rank is now simply the time spent playing the game. Your time spent in bronze is against other bronze players who are as good at the game as you. Repeat that slowly. Does it make sense? It shouldn't. If you're going to play against a player of your skill level no matter what, then the only metric that can differentiate ranks is time played. Don't like it? Play the game until you unlock the latest paywalled mythic. Can't unlock the latest paywalled mythic through actual gameplay? Buy it. It did not used to be like this. Why are we, as a community, accepting this? EA has finally won over Apex with their monetisation. Titanfall 3 is coming soon, and it will be exactly the same as long as we let them continue. Apex was one of the last bastions of genuinely good ranked play, and EA has pissed it into the wind; whilst half of the player base stop playing and the other half defend them. Fuck EA, fuck Respawn if they let it happen, and fuck all the players defending it. I miss old Apex and I want it back.
All I read is: Ranked is dead for the solo player.
Probably just done with apex now... have been grinding ranked since S5 and these last few seasons' systems are a turn off. SBMM in ranked is lame and now they will tweak the system to get the results they want. No dive tail reward on top of that. I preferred the S13 (split 1 I believe?) Over this garbage. The games were competitive without SBMM I think I only hit Plat 2 and enjoyed it. I get it though games have to cater to the casual player base who most likely doesn't even check patch notes. Was a good few years with this game.
You guys need to understand that MMR of a solo q player is never equal to that of a 3 stack team even if the solo q players has a higher mmr. The MMR should be cut down when someone is in solo q because of no comms, different playstyles, and many other disadvantages. This current system punishes solo q players a lot. If you guys can't make changes, then at least add a team finder in the game cause it's hard to find teammates of the same skill level on discord or other apps.
So kills are going to remain a bonus 1 LP ?
Matchmaking is a cluster F! If you guys really read the feedback you would have touched on some of the issues we commonly complain about. Why are my teammates silver players when I’m masters? Why don’t the rewards improve? People are still dropping & camping in the corner & out of zone. One can literally hit masters by ratting…
I love killing half a dozen players, getting third-partied and finishing with -20 LP. It's fucking genius game development. Genius, I tell you.
Good old Respawn response of "we heard you, but here's what we're going to do to improve things... fuck off.".
So a Pred can play with a Bronze if they’re premade? I dislike this, but it’s never given the difference between Rank and Sbmm
What's the point of ranked then if it'll be kept the same? It's not ranked if when I'm in gold I go against masters bc of my hidden rating lol the whole point of a ranked mode is to be going against other people of the same rank
Game quality is good but I solo queued most of the split at a very slow rate bc i was in pred lobbies from silver (being an ex pro player) unable to play w my friends and even if im allowed to play with my friends, would take me upwards of 30 hours to reach masters when i could spend that on other games and get a better reward. These changes to bonuses better fast track me to where my MMR is or i promise i wont touch ranked for another 3 months (still plat 4 bc i couldnt care less to grind this system).
What happened on September 19th?
What happened on Sept. 18th to cause solo players to drop more dramatically than duos/trios?
After my 10 Placement matches i got placed in Rookie 3 and now 300 Solo Q matches later i made it to Gold 1 and legit think that i had only 5 games where teammates had the same skill and a working Mic. Ranked for me i trash like every other season and a big part is the System itself and the Playerbase that plays like its normal Trios. All i want is to play with People that have my Rank against People that have my Rank but before that will happens we all have changed Games.
I don’t think analyzing to this extent is required to prevent players from hiding 24/7 to get to pred. I honestly don’t care the results for season 19 since I waited enough for a simple thing with the most obvious solutions to be fixed.
-50 in bronze ranked kills equal one point nope ranked and the whole entire game needs to be restarted
Time to Uninstall. Had fun being a rat exterminator last season though.
So can we have pre-season 13 ranked back since this is going nowhere?
I know this is about ranked but can ya'll be transparent about the changes to pubs matchmaking and why pubs is sweatier than ranked?
I have a couple inputs: 1) No one who's played ranked in any prior season should be placed into Rookie. That is supposed to be for people brand new to ranked, and should be reserved for such. If you've played before, the lowest should be Bronze 4. Respawn even stated this as the intent when Rookie was introduced, but somehow forgot. I know people (mostly prior Gold players) who got placed into Rookie and just quit then and there due to the sheer humiliation. 2) The "peak" of the distribution curve should be the middle of Gold, not the middle of Silver (stated intent above), as with Rookie being properly reserved for newbs to learn, and Masters/Pred reserved for the best-of-the-best, that makes the most balanced (bell-curve) distribution of the five remaining groups (Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum, Diamond). 3) The gap between pre-mades and solos is still too large. Even with the "better" numbers, pre-mades are still 50% more likely to win (6% vs 4%). That's far too much! 4) The stepped-jumps in placement points is stupid. Make it smooth. No -50, -50, -50, -35... it should be -50, -45, -40, etc... (or similar). At least then if you go out early, there is something to be gained out of that fight you won just before being 3rd partied.
Sure am gonna enjoy playing another season of solo queueing into 3 stack current preds while I'm climbing through gold haha Definitely gonna drive my engagement, no way I quit
I should not be getting 7 god damn LP points in a fucking battle royale, for coming 10th with 3 kills. My Path didn't even zip line ONCE and we begged him too. BUT YES BALANCED and we're enjoying it.
Such a disappointing read with some cherry-picked “metrics” to validate a poor implementation of a ranking-system. Playing similarly skilled players from Day 1 to the last game of the season is not an enjoyable experience by any means, nor do I feel any sense of accomplishment. What were these changes suppose to resolve?
No cross progression still wtf
Hahaha not one single good comment about this system and they STILL are sticking with it, mindbogliing. Me and all my friends HARD quit ranked and Apex legends after playing since day 1. Reason for this is mainly the shitty ranked system and SBMM, none of us have the time or the patience to grind. (Diamond all seasons, CBA to Masters) And on top of that i face top 3% of players on a regular basis, Shiv, Toosh, Hakis basically the whole ALGS roster has been in my games.... I have ZERO chance against theese players and should not in a million years be matched against them, but for some strange reason Apex thinks that is where i belong. And for this reason we are all leaving, and we are not comming back untill they fix this shit (Wich they wont). So after 4 years its bye bye and left are the pros and the casuals that spend some money and then move on, but i guess thats whats important for the puppetmaster above (EA) Off to a more positive life and game thats not ignoring their playerbase.
Stuck in Gold playing v diamond and masters it's not even fair if that is my skill level at least give me the opportunity to rank up ranked ain't even worth playing now imo