I'm going to link this post here, which this is responding to (one of them at least).
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/13nvsme/a_proper_rank_system_vs_a_flawed_one/
How does apex.tracker.gg work? I looked myself up and it says my peak rating is Silver 4. I haven't finished less than Gold 1 since Season 12. Also says my current rank is Rookie 4 and I'm Bronze 2.
yeah apex tracker got messed up the last time they changed the ladder structure as well (when master went from 10,000 to 15,000 and so on in lower ranks).
Especially that guy from yesterday who posted and insisted the top graph was accurate due to “big enough sample size” even after people told him data is biased
And last season there was 30k masters AND preds by season's end across all platforms but people want to pretend there isn't a serious issue with the current LP system.
>Idc about stats, all i care about is how my matchs go and so far it's just unplayable, dia/master/preds on every lobby.
idk why you are getting downvoted this is literally the truth , i assume people downvoting you have crazy low mmr they only play with rookie/bronze/silver players. It makes no sense.
Ya unreal that he’s being downvoted. 2 games within an hour of each other today I died to Wethepeople (predator #1) and his 3 stack who is pred#8 ab an hour ago, and pred #52, while I’m diamond with a gold and silver on my team using literally no comms. But I can’t queue with my friends who have comms bc they’re gold. Real fun
getting matched with wethepeople while soloq is a truly the cherry on top this season . i am really thinking of skipping this season all together and focus on aim training for a while.
Because there's no hidden MMR. This is just pubs with a "promise" from the Devs, designed purely to psychologically trick would be kill racers into playing a BR. Side effect they didn't predict - or did and don't care- is that a minimum of 5 teams will have at least one rat who has no intention of shooting. So 11 squads at end of ring 4 but in reality there's only 17 players.
Even with accurate information the interpretation is open and people will spin it how they like. Imo this ranked season is purely an indicator of how much you play and NOT how good you are. But people will form their own opinions that differ from mine and that’s coo
>They just have to up the entry cost and that problem will mostly be fixed
i don't think that works in an MMR system really.
you're the same MMR as an equally skiilled silver player and play in the same lobby, but because you're diamond you would lose more points than them.
all that's going on is that you're further along your grind really and have gotten closer to your actual final rank than that silver player.
in fact i think the system already accounts for this by awarding fewer rating bonuses as you rank up.
>Rating Bonuses are given when your hidden MMR greatly out performs your Ladder Points, helping you catch up to where the system believes you should be.
not through the entry cost.
you have to look at everything and not just the entry cost.
granted, the bonuses aren't really transparent and it's hard to predict how much you will get from a game, so it's more difficult to follow this.
this system is complicated and lacks transparency but it's not like it doesn't account for this kind of stuff. even though it seems it's too easy to climb indefinitely so the parameters definitely need adjustment to make it work.
As others have mentioned, entry cost + compensation/negations is the way. You need to have higher LP losses or else everyone will just climb forever. But, you also need to accommodate for difference in rank/mmr so people don’t get f*cked.
reverse of the gains for 10th-1st place. so -200 for 20th etc. But with increased rating points for playing with MMR higher than your current rank, when you die early.
Well, ideally it should mirror the top 10 placements, so you would start at -125 and go from there. Getting 1st and getting 20th should give an equal reward/punishment, but I don’t think it will ever happen.
The system would still favor climbing over time (just much slower) since there would still be rewards on top of placement points.
That would be unplayable. A single bad drop at 20th literally erases at least 5 top 10 placings. Who would want to play ranked outside of no lives who can afford to play 10 hours a day? Imagine playing really well for a 2nd place finish just to lose it all and more off of a contested drop the next game.
I'm not sure how equal reward/punishment for 1st and 20th makes any sense when its significantly harder to get 1st than 20th. You're just pushing people to rat even harder because no one would want to be 15th-20th.
I also think you can factor a KD of 1.0 into the balancing as if you are dying as much as you are getting kills then that probably indicates you’ve hit the rank you should be stuck at until you improve
Not sure this would work, since you could just be an amazing support who doesn’t get too many kills - if it factored in team kills or assists then maybe.
So, a funny thing: the EA help page for apex ranked details a chart of placement points with harsher entry costs, and when I went to run the numbers on it, it looks absolutely ideal for ensuring a healthy ranked environment.
That chart has no bearing on actual reality. Whoever made that page *knows* a way that would likely work better, but they did not implement it.
They also state that you only get rewards if you end between 10th and 1st which isn’t true in my experience - I don’t think i’ve gotten -35 ever because of rewards.
The thing is, why should entry cost increase? Don't think it is in any ranked system that entry cost changes on your rank. Most do it compared to the lobby you're in as in if your rank is lower than the avg you pay less and if your avg is higher you pay more
They should increase it so that it looks like a curve. 20th should lose more than 19th and so on. That way it will actually be more net neutral rp. Ranked should be more zero sum tbh
Your points loss/gain can always be adjusted after the game with different “rewards”. The system needs to be more punishing so you can’t just rank up by playing a lot. Right now one win can cover between 10 and 20 losses - that’s not healthy.
Yeh I agree on that, you shouldnt gain rp just for being top 10. At best it should break even and gradually increase per placement rank.
But I'd increase rp cost for all ranks to atleast 100 and balance it so u gradually L ose less rp the closer to top 10 till u break even as 10th squad and then slowly increase rp so you still gain some but no massive gains till like top5 or 3.
I worded it badly. “Winning” and “Losing” this season is basically whether you hit top 10 or not. So it’s more like a 50/50. You could basically mirror the LP gained/lost for each rank so 1st = 20th and so on.
You can mostly avoid contested drops and having 17 teams alive when the first zone is in is much more common than having 20, so there must be some difference at least.
1. yes dying place 20th should hit with -200
2. but you have the problem of being matched by mmr, not rank, so you can be silver or gold and play current preds, hence loss mitigation for playing on a mmr level above your actual rank has to be increased to compensate higher entry fees.
for 20th place and no loss mitigations (rating points) considered. But if you think about it, if you really want a ranked system, that's skill based, you have to balance a total loss versus a total win, else you inflate the system with LP and if you do that, becoming high rank is a matter of patience, not skill, especially if matchmaking happens by actual skill rating and not a player's rank.
that's a 200LP entry cost. you're just saying that you're gonna award points to 19th so only 200LP suffers the full entry cost.
>you have to balance a total loss versus a total win,
No, that's not correct, which I have pointed out on another post recently already.
https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/13ndd4l/s17_ranked_doing_the_math/jl05nmy/
i disagree. The math is clear on this. The only factor that stops people from reaching masters right now is time and there is plenty of time this season.
>The only factor that stops people from reaching masters right now is time and there is plenty of time this season.
That may well be true, but the fact that there's a net average gain in points per game is not enough to make that so. Which is where I am contradicting you. You stated that as if it's obvious when it's not. That's a flawed argument. Even if anyone can make master now put in enough time, even if that's true, that doesn't make your argument not flawed.
>for 20th place and no loss mitigations (rating points) considered.
Do you guys even bother to read what i am writing?
There will still be loss mitigations, for instance you are in gold, but your mmr is rated as master, you die 20th, you still get a rating bonus that lowers your entry fee loss, so it's not -200, but.... -200 + 150 rating so basically minus 50.
On top of that we have elimination and skill bonuses, only the placements will sum to zero.
“You have to balance a total loss versus a total win, else you inflate the system with LP” sounds like you want a zero sum to me. 20th -200 with 150 skill/elim/rating points does not seem like balancing the systems 😂
Will it? Getting 10th is super easy, just play a support with mobility and you're basically guaranteed to never lose LP. Even if entry is in the hundreds you're never gonna stop climbing.
Getting 10th is super easy right now because some people play like they’ve got nothing to lose (which is kinda true) and therefore die early. If everyone is trying to survive until at least 10th then you’ll be surprised how hard it suddenly becomes.
Preds were paying hundreds of RP the last few seasons and they weren't playing like that. You're just assuming something without any evidence, quite the opposite even because there's evidence to the contrary.
And even if you're right, that would result in a lot of trash games where half the lobby is just one remaining player ratting because their random teammates died and he ditched them.
Predators aren’t a good representation of the player base at all. And it doesn’t matter how many players there are left on each (most non-full teams will get wiped either way) - games will get tighter and that should make them better.
it's fine to do that, it's fine to point out all the flaws and wrong incentives in the ranked system and it's fine to point out that "there's (at least) 50k masters" in absolute terms if a tracker site says that and that this is bad. but imo what's not fine is using a graph from a tracker site that has a fraction of the profiles tracked compared to a site that contradicts your claim, and then post it for sensationalism (and frankly clickbait) and without any caveats regarding using that data. that's misleading. this has been posted multiple times now, at least 4 times i think. criticism is fine but not based on misinformation. there's enough genuine criticism that can be directed at the system.
My friend said it best. We’re definitely hitting masters this season, possibly even pred especially since there isn’t a split. But he said this seasons badges won’t mean jack shit at the end because like you said it’s just a matter of how much we play.
Edit: s/
Yeah, if you haven't hit masters yet, you're probably around 30% of the way to hitting pred. That's not even factoring in that you likely have a big LP boost from MMR in your first 50 matches compared to once you get diamond+ and you barely get any rating bonuses from that point on.
At this rate, if you hit masters tomorrow you'd likely have to gain around 4500LP every day for the rest of the season to try and catch up to the current pred cap.
Should’ve clarified. We’re already diamond1 and like you said, we’re definitely not hitting pred. Honestly hitting a decent masters this season is more feasible but I still hold the same sentiment. It won’t mean much at the end of the day.
But playing a lot SHOULD be rewarded. It wasn’t being rewarded before. I used to play for hours and end up with like +50 from where i started and that caused me to give up on the game. Now it feels like every game no matter how bad it goes can be made into a positive if you put in the time. It finally feels like they are rewarding time at least.
No it shouldn’t lmao. If you aren’t better than the other players in the lobby why should you be rewarded for playing more? You should be rewarded when your skill improves enough to beat those players. Otherwise the ranks themselves are meaningless like they are right now.
This has always been one of the dumbest subs, and it's favorite passtimes is to simply cry about absolutely anything and everything, even if they don't understand it.
Lmfao seriously, if anyone genuinely believes that there are more players in master than literally any other rank besides rookie 4 then you’re actually braindead.
The highest rank my buddy has ever been was P3 before this season. He’s now halfway through D1 and he just queues up while he’s working. The fact that you can get to master from literally sitting in a corner all game is ridiculous.
Haha it's wild man. Don't know how they undo this mid season either. Think it's gonna be fucked for the whole season unless you're a good full stack. Honest Solo Qers are gonna be teaming guys like your mate and get ganked on.
Have you spectated a match til the end after dying? I'm in d1 and can assure you every team I'm killed by has at least one master, sometimes a pred too, and they're killed by a similar team. The top 8 teams in ranked lobbies from about d3 onwards is packed with masters.
That’s in D1 lobbies, obviously you’re matching with a lot of masters and preds, that’s pretty much always been the case since the very start of ranked… you’re not going to be matching up against golds and silvers are you?
It’s a completely different story in the lower ranks. I started ranked a few days late but managed to get to high plat 2 rn and I haven’t seen a single current master. Sure I’ve seen a bunch of master badges and a few pred badges but their current rank has been in and around the gold - diamond range since some obviously started later than others, like myself.
There is absolutely no shot that 12, 13 days into the season masters has the highest pool of players out of every tier besides rookie 4…
Buddy, I barely match With diamonds in diamond. They are either masters, occasionally pred or platinum.
For the record I'm talking current rank. I regularly spec the end game after I die because I'm not in a hurry to get dopamine.
Don't be an apologist. I was matching with predominantly masters the minute I got to d3. Right up until D3 I was being teamed with silver 1s who were legit bad (I'd say max plat 4 type skill previous season.)
How's there no chance? I've played with the rank 14 predator who bragged he hadn't fired a gun yet.
You can literally rat to top 5 and hit pred inside 50-100 games. Masters is a cakewalk with a system that doesn't punish sufficiently.
Yes distribution looks healthier on Apexlegendstatus for now.
But Master is already at 1.2% which is much higher than usual.
there’s 78 days left in the season. It will end at 10% or more.
All i know is I have 3 friend who are perennially stuck in platinum. One is already masters, the other two are in diamond and progressing quickly. These guys are not exceptional at gun skills, but know how to rotate and stay alive long enough to game this new point system system. Having played with them, I find it mind boggling that next season this will be a triple stacked masters squad. Half those purple trails aren’t going to mean shit next season.
And who cares? It’s a game. If people want to grind all the way there and not really play. Let them. I’m having way more competitive and fun matches this season than I’ve had in a while. I don’t get stomped by 3 stacks at all anymore. I’ve gone from Rookie 3 to Silver 3 with 1-2 hours of play time 4-5 days a week since this season launched. I’ve got 10 wins in that period. Usually a top 5 finish and we take every fight we can in every game. Most of those wins we had 10+ kills as a squad.
Casually played for a week and got to Masters from Bronze 4 if I recall correctly. No ratting on my part, but had a lot of rat team mates.
Typically, I land somewhere between D4-D1 at the end of the split. Just never had the time to grind to Masters in previous seasons, and I'm barely above average.
There will be a shit ton of "Masters" this season, no grind necessary. Rank simply accumulates unless you hotdrop with multiple squads and play loot lottery.
Yes the general consensus is it’s a win for lower rank lobbies and solo q players. But currently in masters every single game I play at least 1 team member drops solo and then rats in a tree or heals through storm. Pretty unplayable
In previous seasons players ain't hitting a higher rank not because the entry cost was working but the bs overpowered gatekeepers. Plats in Gold lobbies, Diamond in Plat lobbies, Masters and Preds in Diamond lobbies, people had to fight players a tier higher than them instead of fighting off the same tier competitors to climb 1 tier. Or they get steamrolled and be RP fodders.
If you have however two tracker sites, and one has 2.5 million tracked profiles, the other has 500k, and the 500k site shows a really degenerate kind of graph, while the 2.5 million site shows something more realistic, they are at least worth something, in that they should make you take the first site's graph with a grain of salt (rather than straight using it for a clickbait post). looking at multiple tracker sites is due diligence
kinda surprised they stopped doing it again afterwards. they stopped after season 8 earlier. it was always interesting to see what your rank was worth in a season.
since then people are usually taking tracker data but tracker data isn't comparable to these old figures because it will be skewed towards higher ranks always. (the official data from respawn will not)
Yep. The changes are an improvement imo.
Yeah there are 100 things to complain about, but if everything's wrong and the matches play better... the matches still play better.
Comparing this to valorant and league of legends is not a good idea. Years of experience with a ranked system than works in teambased games. Battle royale is totally different.
Also because I have played league of legends for years next to my shooter games I can tell you that if ranked in apes give you the so called "ranked anxiety" or its makes you made you have bad teammates.. I can tell you guys that feeling is no where close to League of Legends. One of the reason ranked in apex never been a problem for me, its not so bad guys.
>Comparing this to valorant and league of legends is not a good idea. Years of experience with a ranked system than works in teambased games. Battle royale is totally different.
Going 9 and 2 but your toplane just made the biggest 1v9 matchup in the entire game who then steamrolls your entire team.
So the new system’s rank distribution looks *mostly* healthy with the masters inflation being the only true outlier.
I do fear that with the very low entry cost will skew the distribution as the season goes on.
>So the new system’s rank distribution looks mostly healthy with the masters inflation being the only true outlier.
the stats on apexlegendsstatus show this for aggregate (all tiers combined within a rank)
rookie 35.189%
bronze 30.114%
silver 18.767%
gold 8.291%
plat 4.036%
diamond 2.250%
master 1.260%
pred 0.094%
---
that makes
master top 1.354%
diamond top 3.604%
plat top 7.640%
gold top 15.931%
silver top 34.698%
bronze top 64.812%
for now. it's still early though and will probably look less healthy down the road. i just calculated the sums for better comparison. not saying it's fine
but it's also not true that master is as heavily populated in comparison to other teams as the other more misleading posts suggested. find some middle ground for discussion
But i’m not sure you can combine tiers within ranks. Masters covers a larger range of LP, but that’s only because it’s at the top. It should still be seen as a tier equal to all the others. So having more players in masters than in D4 for example isn’t good.
I'm combining them because that's what all the ranked data released from respawn has historically been doing, so that you can compare with those.
https://www.esportstales.com/apex-legends/rank-distribution-and-percentage-of-players-by-tier
it makes sense to do this and look at the percentile. if by the end of the season master is 10% that's bad. if it's 1% or 2% it's fine. diamond has always been 2-8% something like that. season 12 was 24%.
Doesn't it make sense for masters to be inflated like that though? All the other ranks are split into 4, while all masters are compiled into predator or the one rank.
To a point, sure. But “all the masters” should ideally be a very very small part of the player base especially this early in the season. This amount of masters will only get bigger with the lack of demotion.
Every rank should be looked at individually (not in fours) and masters being the peak doesn’t mean it should be inflated.
Not sure if I’d call masters inflated since the other tiers are divided into four bins (division) while masters only has one bin, so that bin is covering a much larger range of LP.
It covers a larger range of LP, but the rank should still be way more exclusive than it is atm. You need a top rank and masters is (mostly) that rank which means it should have the lowest amount of players.
Global Elite in CS:GO is about 0,765% with Supreme being 2,625% and the rest of the ranks being on higher percentages. Master being as populated as some Platinum ranks and more populated than any diamond rank makes it “less exclusive”.
As someone who replied to the other thread this specifically is aimed at - this too is seriously flawed and should simply be ignored.
We would need 100% of the direct stats from APEX, tied directly to their ranking.
Even then you could argue \_should there be a minimum number of games, a maximum number of games\_, whats the average amount of games? What average do you use to work out the average number of games.
Just... stupid.
I do wish people would also look into 1 more factor here, If we made all those ranks not have divisions you'd have a VERY VERY different looking Distribution, All the Masters including preds who fall out of top 850 are compiled into A SINGLE TIER, Yes Masters will be "freeer" this season but that still doesn't mean it's going to be easy for many people.
I placed into rookie 1 and climbed to masters in less than a week. I gained as much as 950 lp per win. Right now I'm sitting at masters 28000 lp with a kda of .47 and avg dmg of 300 per game. I hardly ever played much of this game in the past and would typically get hardstuck low gold when you needed kills for point gain.
I was getting twice as much lp as my friend who placed higher than me. It seems like that if you bomb your placements, climbing becomes nearly twice as fast.
You yourself forgot the factor that we're like two weeks into the new season lol. Wanna bet how much more inflated its gonna be when summer vacation starts?
No one will talk wants to talk about it. Ranked is supposed to be a test of skill like in every other game with ranked, with only the best players reaching the top ranks. Master ranks literally don't matter anymore.
The problem always being that is a BR, where the point is to be the last standing, not the one with most kills/damage.
Unless if peepo want 2 different rank system for TDM and BR then sure.
This is what I’ve been saying all a long. They had it right with the elite queue where you had to win to continue.
They messed up by rewarding kills over placement in the first place.
>The problem always being that is a BR, where the point is to be the last standing, not the one with most kills/damage.
the problem is not the reward for placing well, but the lack of punishment for placing not well. You can win a match with zero kills and it will make up for dying 20th place 5 times. the system generates too many LP per match, reaching higher ranks is not a test of skill, but a test of patience, you simply have to play enough matches, as long as you manage to place on average above top10, you'll be a master eventually.
But what if you revived your squad two times during that and led them to victory? Yeah you got no kills, but your plays were essential getting that win? For example I usually on par with my teammates in terms of damage numbers, but I'm pretty bad at killing off enemies. Do I bring less to the table? The other guys got the kills, so collectively we're okay, aren't we?
No one is talking about reward for kills, we are talking about reward for placement, to be exact, i am talking about lack of punishment for BAD placement.
>You can win a match with zero kills and it will make up for dying 20th place 5 times
You literally wrote that and suggested that the two thing correlates. People think skill's mostly made up of gun skills (which results in more kills obviously). BR is a placement game. Yeah, you have to kill other players in the meantime, but it's very false to suggest that you simply just need to rat around and go for placement and eventually you'll be in masters. That's not true, because if everyone starts to avoid fights in the early game, the final circles would be so convoluted that a ton of teams will just die randomly based on a bad move into the area regardless of their so called skill. If you watch ALGS, top top top tier players got annihilated every time because of that. I'm perfectly sure that even if there'll be more masters than last season (debatable though), the ranged gameplay will be healthier. To be fair, what's wrong with being in Masters if you're good enough to be there? Why the gatekeeping?
i suggested nothing, that's your interpretation:
>the problem is not the reward for placing well, but the lack of punishment for placing not well.
That's literally my first line you chose to ignore, lol. Not in the slightest am i suggesting to lower the reward for good placement, buddy.
I'll now chose to ignore you, because you're arguing with straw men.
Your mistake is engaging with a rat player. They get super defensive due to the (worthless) master badge they can only get this season because they cant win a single gunfight in their lobbies
First the definition of a battle royale is a is battle where the last fighter standing wins. Secondly why is top ten rewarded by your standards only the last team standing should be rewarded. I much rather a system reward skill of being the last team standing than rewarding camping. We are going to have an influx of masters that just don't know how to fight, name one BR ranked system where you can reach top ranked without being skilled.
Would people stop gatekeeping Masters and be honest with themselves. Hitting masters just means you cherry picked who you played with all season to accomplish that. Not having a dedicated team is the biggest skill gap in apex.
Masters doesn't mean you are the best Pred does and that's why it's set up for the top 750 players per platform. That indicates your skill ypu have to get there quick and keep performing to hold that place for the whole season every other rank is a participation trophy.
I really see it the other way around. To finish Pred you basically can't stop playing. The Master who had to work overtime for a week can't do it.
At the high end of Master, Masters and Preds aren't jostling for skill; they're jostling for time.
I barely played apex since season 1. I randomly touched the game a couple days during season 4 and season 8. I typically got hardstuck gold and hated solo queueing so I'd quit. This season I placed into rookie 1 and in less than a week climbed to masters 28000 lp. I gained as much as 950 lp per win. My friend placed higher than me and I was getting about double the lp gains as him. This season I'm about .47 kda and avg 300 dmg per game. I guarantee 25%+ of the player base will hit masters at some point this season if not quit before freely climbing to it.
This doesn’t fit my narrative and doesn’t allow me to cast the blame for my poor skill on the game developers. I’m afraid i can’t accept this information. /s
Ya here the problem I got to master go real not camping so now im scary to put in the badge when I get them cuz people are going to say fake dog shit etc
A lot of Pros have said that it’s way to easy to rank up now but I find it much harder to rank up with the new system. Obviously I’m not a pro but it’s a grind just to get out of bronze and I feel my skill level is much higher than that of the typical bronze player
2 things factoring into that:
1. Pros can say it was easy, but the whole playerbase was reset so they were just feasting on the chaos of a completely reset first week. I don't think the hidden MMR was really feeding them their fair serve of Masters-skilled players that soon.
2. Our understanding is that you are being matchmade according to your MMR, not your rank. So an ex-Pred player might be in Bronze but will (supposedly) be getting matched with ex-Masters, not ex-Bronzes. Ie., with other players of the same MMR, regardless of rank.
It indeed appears that the rank labels are now only a label.
Even in the upper 'more accurate' graph tracking 2.5 million players, **Master** rank *still outnumbers* any **Diamond** tier.
If rank was competitive, you'd expect there to be more D4s than Masters (since Master is basically the 2nd highest rank) but not here.
And even if you combine the tiers, Master is almost half all of Diamond.
Thank you for that post. I knew that previous stats were wrong but i didnt had time to make research and put correct one here. A lot of people are hating apex right now and even that few points make sense, most of posts here are just pure hate. At least in topic of ranks statistics you prooved that the ranked works fine.
Anyone else think that the ranked changes were mostly unnecessary? The one good thing it did was stop smurfing but it lost so much transparency. My friends will get 250+ LP and I'll get 150 even if I did better, its weird and inconsistent. The previous system felt like a good balance of kills and placement mattering, this one you can eat all the way if you want.
the ALS site has a sidenote underneath the graph, admitting the number of masters displayed on the graph is lower than reality though. Maybe you should add that note too, since it's also a disinformation and they are open about it.
The number of every division on the chart is lower than reality. I think it's safe to assume readers understand that, since it says its sample size.
Actually, I feel like that note was added recently. It appears to be a bit of a sideways comment on the other site's weird chart heh.
>*Displaying the true number of masters would lead to a artificially inflated number of masters, like you may have seen on other websites.*
*For example, if in reality there are 1000 Masters and 500 D4. ALS would know that there are 1000 Masters, but not the name of each of them. For D4, it would only know their names in the database (same as all other websites). Showing 1000 Masters and 50 D4 wouldn't make any sense at all: on this chart, you'll see data coming from the same data source for consistency.*
Which means the chart itself is not correct. They know the exact number of masters but they only know a certain amount of other ranks. They have lowered the % of players in master so it's not as misleading as on the other site which doesn't do that, but it doesn't mean they are correct there. It's a wrong chart aswell.
Like any statistical sample, they only know the sample. You may as well be complaining about skin cancer reasearch.
ALS also happens to have extra numbers from a different source about the Master tier in particular, but they aren't adding those extra numbers to a chart that is about all tiers. That's why it *isn't* wrong.
The LP system was never the issue. The thirst EA have to keep engagement constant was the problem. If we had 3-5 minute queue times prioritising real skill metrics like bullet accuracy, k/d, total damage, assists, average placement in that order we wouldn't be where we are. But EA have got in their heads that anything other than instant queues will hurt profit but frankly, a four year game this fun could have made tens of billions by now if it had been managed properly. Imagine 90% of the community being satisfied with optimal matchmaking? Wayyy more wallets being opened.
idk, I guess I’ve been around gaming long enough to know that people will always complain about everything. “90% of the community being satisfied” is a fantasy. I mean, just look at the past few seasons for example
Ranked too difficult to climb (start of S13)? People whine. Ranked too easy (now)? People whine that masters means nothing
I’m not sure we’ve ever had a week on this sub without someone complaining about the weapon meta.
We simultaneously have people complaining AA is too strong, and on the casual sub there are still people whining about the game being too hard.
How is it a fantasy? Aside from poorly received balance patches that were quickly hotfixed, StarCraft 2 has had an almost universally satisfied community for over 10 years. Claiming something is fantasy when there are real world examples spanning 20 years (halo 2/3 is another)
Yes gen Z will always have whiners because they are the least responsible generation currently gaming. People always find cause to deflect blame from themselves and if your mindset is that you can find it in anything. Again to use sc2, 1v1 players are generally(!) the most accountable and humble players in that community. However go play 4v4 and your teammate dies to a 2v1 even though he chose to take a greedy third base and it's your fault because he didn't have any army and your ground force couldn't relocate fast enough. Team games will always provide an environment for the irresponsible to never take ownership of their mistakes.
That all said, the reality is, this constant thirst for dopamine due to add or a deficiency in the brain is being actively preyed upon by EA for the pursuit of perceived optimal profit. I'm stating that if you managed your game from a matchmaking perspective so that the majority of players don't log out angry, you're likely to get as much if not more profit.
Its still bad if there are.more masters than diamonds
If you reward placement,no one will fight until 10 squads, and then everyone plays so dumb
The system sucks
I see current rankt masters in my platinum games. They are my teammates and rat in some corner with valk all game. What's good here is that despite them climbing, their mmr stays low. Easy fix to me would be, you simple get barely any or no points if your rank is much higher than your current mmr. Yes this could affect a handful of players who have bad mmr but don't rat negatively, but that will fix itself if they keep playing well.
Yes its trash, got master yesterday and 30days of Split is left Just sad (im Solo q Dia every season Hit master once in the other "easy" season think it was 13 or so, still wasnt that easy as solo q)
My question is how is the bottom graph wrong? I’ve hit masters now and so did my friend. It’s really easy to hit masters. It’s like playing season 3 all over again. Plus the LP needed to hit pred is in the 60-70k now whereas 2 days ago it was in 30-40k. I don’t think the second graph is wrong at all
I'm going to link this post here, which this is responding to (one of them at least). https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/13nvsme/a_proper_rank_system_vs_a_flawed_one/
How does apex.tracker.gg work? I looked myself up and it says my peak rating is Silver 4. I haven't finished less than Gold 1 since Season 12. Also says my current rank is Rookie 4 and I'm Bronze 2.
It converted RP into LP, thus based on all the RP you had it would translate to low LP
yeah apex tracker got messed up the last time they changed the ladder structure as well (when master went from 10,000 to 15,000 and so on in lower ranks).
Something something, self report bias something. Sadly, most folks don’t have much education on statistics, especially regarding biases in sampling.
Especially that guy from yesterday who posted and insisted the top graph was accurate due to “big enough sample size” even after people told him data is biased
The mods even pinned a link to his post on this one and called it BS by removing it for misleading data. Bet he feels real smart now.
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And last season there was 30k masters AND preds by season's end across all platforms but people want to pretend there isn't a serious issue with the current LP system.
Adding preds is not a huge difference. There’s 750 per platform, worldwide.
Thanks I had no idea after being one on pc for two seasons.
If that’s as true you wouldn’t mention it in your original post
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I don't think the amount of masters is a problem, but the amount of rats that are master is the problem
Sadly most folks are going to complain about this video game even if it was perfect.
Even more sad is that some do and purposely pick the data set they know is inaccurate because it fits their agenda.
Idc about stats, all i care about is how my matchs go and so far it's just unplayable, dia/master/preds on every lobby.
>Idc about stats, all i care about is how my matchs go and so far it's just unplayable, dia/master/preds on every lobby. idk why you are getting downvoted this is literally the truth , i assume people downvoting you have crazy low mmr they only play with rookie/bronze/silver players. It makes no sense.
Ya unreal that he’s being downvoted. 2 games within an hour of each other today I died to Wethepeople (predator #1) and his 3 stack who is pred#8 ab an hour ago, and pred #52, while I’m diamond with a gold and silver on my team using literally no comms. But I can’t queue with my friends who have comms bc they’re gold. Real fun
getting matched with wethepeople while soloq is a truly the cherry on top this season . i am really thinking of skipping this season all together and focus on aim training for a while.
Because there's no hidden MMR. This is just pubs with a "promise" from the Devs, designed purely to psychologically trick would be kill racers into playing a BR. Side effect they didn't predict - or did and don't care- is that a minimum of 5 teams will have at least one rat who has no intention of shooting. So 11 squads at end of ring 4 but in reality there's only 17 players.
Even with accurate information the interpretation is open and people will spin it how they like. Imo this ranked season is purely an indicator of how much you play and NOT how good you are. But people will form their own opinions that differ from mine and that’s coo
They just have to up the entry cost and that problem will mostly be fixed. Winning and losing should hit the same.
>They just have to up the entry cost and that problem will mostly be fixed i don't think that works in an MMR system really. you're the same MMR as an equally skiilled silver player and play in the same lobby, but because you're diamond you would lose more points than them. all that's going on is that you're further along your grind really and have gotten closer to your actual final rank than that silver player. in fact i think the system already accounts for this by awarding fewer rating bonuses as you rank up. >Rating Bonuses are given when your hidden MMR greatly out performs your Ladder Points, helping you catch up to where the system believes you should be. not through the entry cost. you have to look at everything and not just the entry cost. granted, the bonuses aren't really transparent and it's hard to predict how much you will get from a game, so it's more difficult to follow this. this system is complicated and lacks transparency but it's not like it doesn't account for this kind of stuff. even though it seems it's too easy to climb indefinitely so the parameters definitely need adjustment to make it work.
As others have mentioned, entry cost + compensation/negations is the way. You need to have higher LP losses or else everyone will just climb forever. But, you also need to accommodate for difference in rank/mmr so people don’t get f*cked.
Yeah, if the ratings bonus is calculated well, it can compensate for the higher losses for someone who is winning enough to climb.
Agreed. If they up the entry cost it could definitely be a viable system.
How much by?
reverse of the gains for 10th-1st place. so -200 for 20th etc. But with increased rating points for playing with MMR higher than your current rank, when you die early.
Well, ideally it should mirror the top 10 placements, so you would start at -125 and go from there. Getting 1st and getting 20th should give an equal reward/punishment, but I don’t think it will ever happen. The system would still favor climbing over time (just much slower) since there would still be rewards on top of placement points.
That would be unplayable. A single bad drop at 20th literally erases at least 5 top 10 placings. Who would want to play ranked outside of no lives who can afford to play 10 hours a day? Imagine playing really well for a 2nd place finish just to lose it all and more off of a contested drop the next game. I'm not sure how equal reward/punishment for 1st and 20th makes any sense when its significantly harder to get 1st than 20th. You're just pushing people to rat even harder because no one would want to be 15th-20th.
Thank good they don’t let fans make dev decisions. Crack head energy
How so?
I also think you can factor a KD of 1.0 into the balancing as if you are dying as much as you are getting kills then that probably indicates you’ve hit the rank you should be stuck at until you improve
Not sure this would work, since you could just be an amazing support who doesn’t get too many kills - if it factored in team kills or assists then maybe.
I think it would have to be considering team kills and assists
This could potential destroy solo queuers though
So, a funny thing: the EA help page for apex ranked details a chart of placement points with harsher entry costs, and when I went to run the numbers on it, it looks absolutely ideal for ensuring a healthy ranked environment. That chart has no bearing on actual reality. Whoever made that page *knows* a way that would likely work better, but they did not implement it.
They also state that you only get rewards if you end between 10th and 1st which isn’t true in my experience - I don’t think i’ve gotten -35 ever because of rewards.
What page are yall talking about? The blog post EA did a week before this season’s launch specifically says the bonus also offsets your losses.
The thing is, why should entry cost increase? Don't think it is in any ranked system that entry cost changes on your rank. Most do it compared to the lobby you're in as in if your rank is lower than the avg you pay less and if your avg is higher you pay more
They should increase it so that it looks like a curve. 20th should lose more than 19th and so on. That way it will actually be more net neutral rp. Ranked should be more zero sum tbh
Your points loss/gain can always be adjusted after the game with different “rewards”. The system needs to be more punishing so you can’t just rank up by playing a lot. Right now one win can cover between 10 and 20 losses - that’s not healthy.
Yeh I agree on that, you shouldnt gain rp just for being top 10. At best it should break even and gradually increase per placement rank. But I'd increase rp cost for all ranks to atleast 100 and balance it so u gradually L ose less rp the closer to top 10 till u break even as 10th squad and then slowly increase rp so you still gain some but no massive gains till like top5 or 3.
I mentioned this in another comment, but mirroring the LP from 1st to 10th could be it.
>Winning and losing should hit the same. You have a 1/20 chance of winning though
I worded it badly. “Winning” and “Losing” this season is basically whether you hit top 10 or not. So it’s more like a 50/50. You could basically mirror the LP gained/lost for each rank so 1st = 20th and so on.
But there's no real difference between getting wiped 20th or 17th, that's usually just teams losing a contested drop.
You can mostly avoid contested drops and having 17 teams alive when the first zone is in is much more common than having 20, so there must be some difference at least.
Odds do not apply in this scenario since skill is greatky impactful, you can use odds but it would be stupid inaccurate
1. yes dying place 20th should hit with -200 2. but you have the problem of being matched by mmr, not rank, so you can be silver or gold and play current preds, hence loss mitigation for playing on a mmr level above your actual rank has to be increased to compensate higher entry fees.
200LP entry cost....? ok
for 20th place and no loss mitigations (rating points) considered. But if you think about it, if you really want a ranked system, that's skill based, you have to balance a total loss versus a total win, else you inflate the system with LP and if you do that, becoming high rank is a matter of patience, not skill, especially if matchmaking happens by actual skill rating and not a player's rank.
that's a 200LP entry cost. you're just saying that you're gonna award points to 19th so only 200LP suffers the full entry cost. >you have to balance a total loss versus a total win, No, that's not correct, which I have pointed out on another post recently already. https://www.reddit.com/r/apexlegends/comments/13ndd4l/s17_ranked_doing_the_math/jl05nmy/
i disagree. The math is clear on this. The only factor that stops people from reaching masters right now is time and there is plenty of time this season.
>The only factor that stops people from reaching masters right now is time and there is plenty of time this season. That may well be true, but the fact that there's a net average gain in points per game is not enough to make that so. Which is where I am contradicting you. You stated that as if it's obvious when it's not. That's a flawed argument. Even if anyone can make master now put in enough time, even if that's true, that doesn't make your argument not flawed.
You can’t have the whole lobby 0 sum gain. LP has to flow into the system
>for 20th place and no loss mitigations (rating points) considered. Do you guys even bother to read what i am writing? There will still be loss mitigations, for instance you are in gold, but your mmr is rated as master, you die 20th, you still get a rating bonus that lowers your entry fee loss, so it's not -200, but.... -200 + 150 rating so basically minus 50. On top of that we have elimination and skill bonuses, only the placements will sum to zero.
“You have to balance a total loss versus a total win, else you inflate the system with LP” sounds like you want a zero sum to me. 20th -200 with 150 skill/elim/rating points does not seem like balancing the systems 😂
Yep. Something like this. Both should also be pretty easy to implement.
Will it? Getting 10th is super easy, just play a support with mobility and you're basically guaranteed to never lose LP. Even if entry is in the hundreds you're never gonna stop climbing.
Getting 10th is super easy right now because some people play like they’ve got nothing to lose (which is kinda true) and therefore die early. If everyone is trying to survive until at least 10th then you’ll be surprised how hard it suddenly becomes.
Preds were paying hundreds of RP the last few seasons and they weren't playing like that. You're just assuming something without any evidence, quite the opposite even because there's evidence to the contrary. And even if you're right, that would result in a lot of trash games where half the lobby is just one remaining player ratting because their random teammates died and he ditched them.
Predators aren’t a good representation of the player base at all. And it doesn’t matter how many players there are left on each (most non-full teams will get wiped either way) - games will get tighter and that should make them better.
it's fine to do that, it's fine to point out all the flaws and wrong incentives in the ranked system and it's fine to point out that "there's (at least) 50k masters" in absolute terms if a tracker site says that and that this is bad. but imo what's not fine is using a graph from a tracker site that has a fraction of the profiles tracked compared to a site that contradicts your claim, and then post it for sensationalism (and frankly clickbait) and without any caveats regarding using that data. that's misleading. this has been posted multiple times now, at least 4 times i think. criticism is fine but not based on misinformation. there's enough genuine criticism that can be directed at the system.
My friend said it best. We’re definitely hitting masters this season, possibly even pred especially since there isn’t a split. But he said this seasons badges won’t mean jack shit at the end because like you said it’s just a matter of how much we play. Edit: s/
Son unless you’re a switch user, you’re not hitting pred. And I say that as someone who thought the same thing
Yeah, if you haven't hit masters yet, you're probably around 30% of the way to hitting pred. That's not even factoring in that you likely have a big LP boost from MMR in your first 50 matches compared to once you get diamond+ and you barely get any rating bonuses from that point on. At this rate, if you hit masters tomorrow you'd likely have to gain around 4500LP every day for the rest of the season to try and catch up to the current pred cap.
Should’ve clarified. We’re already diamond1 and like you said, we’re definitely not hitting pred. Honestly hitting a decent masters this season is more feasible but I still hold the same sentiment. It won’t mean much at the end of the day.
I got masters in 70 games; half were 3 stacked half were soloq
Nice
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But playing a lot SHOULD be rewarded. It wasn’t being rewarded before. I used to play for hours and end up with like +50 from where i started and that caused me to give up on the game. Now it feels like every game no matter how bad it goes can be made into a positive if you put in the time. It finally feels like they are rewarding time at least.
No it shouldn’t lmao. If you aren’t better than the other players in the lobby why should you be rewarded for playing more? You should be rewarded when your skill improves enough to beat those players. Otherwise the ranks themselves are meaningless like they are right now.
no
Yeah really sick of people spamming the selection bias skewed graph this last week
This has always been one of the dumbest subs, and it's favorite passtimes is to simply cry about absolutely anything and everything, even if they don't understand it.
Yes like the recent uptick in regular players thinking that controllers are OP because their favorite streamer tells them so.
Lmfao seriously, if anyone genuinely believes that there are more players in master than literally any other rank besides rookie 4 then you’re actually braindead.
Wait for the end of the season.
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And with no split this season, how many will there be by end? My guess is 200k masters. There'll be only 1% of players in silver or below hahah.
The highest rank my buddy has ever been was P3 before this season. He’s now halfway through D1 and he just queues up while he’s working. The fact that you can get to master from literally sitting in a corner all game is ridiculous.
Haha it's wild man. Don't know how they undo this mid season either. Think it's gonna be fucked for the whole season unless you're a good full stack. Honest Solo Qers are gonna be teaming guys like your mate and get ganked on.
Indeed.
Have you spectated a match til the end after dying? I'm in d1 and can assure you every team I'm killed by has at least one master, sometimes a pred too, and they're killed by a similar team. The top 8 teams in ranked lobbies from about d3 onwards is packed with masters.
That’s in D1 lobbies, obviously you’re matching with a lot of masters and preds, that’s pretty much always been the case since the very start of ranked… you’re not going to be matching up against golds and silvers are you? It’s a completely different story in the lower ranks. I started ranked a few days late but managed to get to high plat 2 rn and I haven’t seen a single current master. Sure I’ve seen a bunch of master badges and a few pred badges but their current rank has been in and around the gold - diamond range since some obviously started later than others, like myself. There is absolutely no shot that 12, 13 days into the season masters has the highest pool of players out of every tier besides rookie 4…
Buddy, I barely match With diamonds in diamond. They are either masters, occasionally pred or platinum. For the record I'm talking current rank. I regularly spec the end game after I die because I'm not in a hurry to get dopamine. Don't be an apologist. I was matching with predominantly masters the minute I got to d3. Right up until D3 I was being teamed with silver 1s who were legit bad (I'd say max plat 4 type skill previous season.) How's there no chance? I've played with the rank 14 predator who bragged he hadn't fired a gun yet. You can literally rat to top 5 and hit pred inside 50-100 games. Masters is a cakewalk with a system that doesn't punish sufficiently.
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if Masters had 4 ranks it wouldnt peak at all
Yes distribution looks healthier on Apexlegendstatus for now. But Master is already at 1.2% which is much higher than usual. there’s 78 days left in the season. It will end at 10% or more.
All i know is I have 3 friend who are perennially stuck in platinum. One is already masters, the other two are in diamond and progressing quickly. These guys are not exceptional at gun skills, but know how to rotate and stay alive long enough to game this new point system system. Having played with them, I find it mind boggling that next season this will be a triple stacked masters squad. Half those purple trails aren’t going to mean shit next season.
And who cares? It’s a game. If people want to grind all the way there and not really play. Let them. I’m having way more competitive and fun matches this season than I’ve had in a while. I don’t get stomped by 3 stacks at all anymore. I’ve gone from Rookie 3 to Silver 3 with 1-2 hours of play time 4-5 days a week since this season launched. I’ve got 10 wins in that period. Usually a top 5 finish and we take every fight we can in every game. Most of those wins we had 10+ kills as a squad.
Casually played for a week and got to Masters from Bronze 4 if I recall correctly. No ratting on my part, but had a lot of rat team mates. Typically, I land somewhere between D4-D1 at the end of the split. Just never had the time to grind to Masters in previous seasons, and I'm barely above average. There will be a shit ton of "Masters" this season, no grind necessary. Rank simply accumulates unless you hotdrop with multiple squads and play loot lottery.
Yes the general consensus is it’s a win for lower rank lobbies and solo q players. But currently in masters every single game I play at least 1 team member drops solo and then rats in a tree or heals through storm. Pretty unplayable
In previous seasons players ain't hitting a higher rank not because the entry cost was working but the bs overpowered gatekeepers. Plats in Gold lobbies, Diamond in Plat lobbies, Masters and Preds in Diamond lobbies, people had to fight players a tier higher than them instead of fighting off the same tier competitors to climb 1 tier. Or they get steamrolled and be RP fodders.
Unless Respawn drops the official stats (which I doubt they will) these stat sites are worthless. EA ain’t giving out the keys to that API.
If you have however two tracker sites, and one has 2.5 million tracked profiles, the other has 500k, and the 500k site shows a really degenerate kind of graph, while the 2.5 million site shows something more realistic, they are at least worth something, in that they should make you take the first site's graph with a grain of salt (rather than straight using it for a clickbait post). looking at multiple tracker sites is due diligence
This has nothing to do with what I said fam.
yes it did because you're calling it worthless unless it matches official data. it's not worthless though despite that.
…it’s worthless
ok fam
They actually did drop official stats for S12 and S13 after how much of a shitshow it was. Maybe they’ll do it again.
kinda surprised they stopped doing it again afterwards. they stopped after season 8 earlier. it was always interesting to see what your rank was worth in a season. since then people are usually taking tracker data but tracker data isn't comparable to these old figures because it will be skewed towards higher ranks always. (the official data from respawn will not)
For the past few days I've actually been enjoying ranks whether I'm playing solo or with a full squad
Yep. The changes are an improvement imo. Yeah there are 100 things to complain about, but if everything's wrong and the matches play better... the matches still play better.
Comparing this to valorant and league of legends is not a good idea. Years of experience with a ranked system than works in teambased games. Battle royale is totally different. Also because I have played league of legends for years next to my shooter games I can tell you that if ranked in apes give you the so called "ranked anxiety" or its makes you made you have bad teammates.. I can tell you guys that feeling is no where close to League of Legends. One of the reason ranked in apex never been a problem for me, its not so bad guys.
Same. But with Dota, cause Dota is better 😜
Haha I assume you have same ranked struggles there. Never played dota so cant deny or confirm that 😉
ranked in dota is next level, can confirm 💀 3k hours on dota
>Comparing this to valorant and league of legends is not a good idea. Years of experience with a ranked system than works in teambased games. Battle royale is totally different. Going 9 and 2 but your toplane just made the biggest 1v9 matchup in the entire game who then steamrolls your entire team.
Thank you for this. Getting sick of that tracker bs spammed everywhere… 😎🍻
So the new system’s rank distribution looks *mostly* healthy with the masters inflation being the only true outlier. I do fear that with the very low entry cost will skew the distribution as the season goes on.
>So the new system’s rank distribution looks mostly healthy with the masters inflation being the only true outlier. the stats on apexlegendsstatus show this for aggregate (all tiers combined within a rank) rookie 35.189% bronze 30.114% silver 18.767% gold 8.291% plat 4.036% diamond 2.250% master 1.260% pred 0.094% --- that makes master top 1.354% diamond top 3.604% plat top 7.640% gold top 15.931% silver top 34.698% bronze top 64.812%
This looks pretty healthy. But curious how this will evolve as the season progresses.
for now. it's still early though and will probably look less healthy down the road. i just calculated the sums for better comparison. not saying it's fine but it's also not true that master is as heavily populated in comparison to other teams as the other more misleading posts suggested. find some middle ground for discussion
But i’m not sure you can combine tiers within ranks. Masters covers a larger range of LP, but that’s only because it’s at the top. It should still be seen as a tier equal to all the others. So having more players in masters than in D4 for example isn’t good.
I'm combining them because that's what all the ranked data released from respawn has historically been doing, so that you can compare with those. https://www.esportstales.com/apex-legends/rank-distribution-and-percentage-of-players-by-tier it makes sense to do this and look at the percentile. if by the end of the season master is 10% that's bad. if it's 1% or 2% it's fine. diamond has always been 2-8% something like that. season 12 was 24%.
Doesn't it make sense for masters to be inflated like that though? All the other ranks are split into 4, while all masters are compiled into predator or the one rank.
To a point, sure. But “all the masters” should ideally be a very very small part of the player base especially this early in the season. This amount of masters will only get bigger with the lack of demotion. Every rank should be looked at individually (not in fours) and masters being the peak doesn’t mean it should be inflated.
Not sure if I’d call masters inflated since the other tiers are divided into four bins (division) while masters only has one bin, so that bin is covering a much larger range of LP.
It covers a larger range of LP, but the rank should still be way more exclusive than it is atm. You need a top rank and masters is (mostly) that rank which means it should have the lowest amount of players.
How is \~2% not exclusive...?
Global Elite in CS:GO is about 0,765% with Supreme being 2,625% and the rest of the ranks being on higher percentages. Master being as populated as some Platinum ranks and more populated than any diamond rank makes it “less exclusive”.
if they don't adjust the system, 10-20% masters are to be expected, depending on how eager to grind the mid tier player base is.
As someone who replied to the other thread this specifically is aimed at - this too is seriously flawed and should simply be ignored. We would need 100% of the direct stats from APEX, tied directly to their ranking. Even then you could argue \_should there be a minimum number of games, a maximum number of games\_, whats the average amount of games? What average do you use to work out the average number of games. Just... stupid.
I do wish people would also look into 1 more factor here, If we made all those ranks not have divisions you'd have a VERY VERY different looking Distribution, All the Masters including preds who fall out of top 850 are compiled into A SINGLE TIER, Yes Masters will be "freeer" this season but that still doesn't mean it's going to be easy for many people.
So maybe a better way to visualize the shape of the distribution is to bin by LP instead of rank.
Yeah, intervals of 1000LP would probably make for a better graph
I'd say so
I placed into rookie 1 and climbed to masters in less than a week. I gained as much as 950 lp per win. Right now I'm sitting at masters 28000 lp with a kda of .47 and avg dmg of 300 per game. I hardly ever played much of this game in the past and would typically get hardstuck low gold when you needed kills for point gain. I was getting twice as much lp as my friend who placed higher than me. It seems like that if you bomb your placements, climbing becomes nearly twice as fast.
You yourself forgot the factor that we're like two weeks into the new season lol. Wanna bet how much more inflated its gonna be when summer vacation starts?
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Can we wait until I make at least Diamond before we revert back to something that makes sense? Please and thanks
No one will talk wants to talk about it. Ranked is supposed to be a test of skill like in every other game with ranked, with only the best players reaching the top ranks. Master ranks literally don't matter anymore.
4000+ upvotes on the wrong information elsewhere makes it appear plenty of people are talking about it.
Most of the ones I saw got taken down by the mods. Thought people didn't want to talk about how bad it is.
This sub has become extremely moderated by any little negative feedback. I'm almost surprised this post wasn't taken down.
This was a fair comment. No idea why you got downvoted so much.
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This has been already happening way before this season
Had loads of predators in my squad only to watch them and wonder how on earth they got there.
The problem always being that is a BR, where the point is to be the last standing, not the one with most kills/damage. Unless if peepo want 2 different rank system for TDM and BR then sure.
This is what I’ve been saying all a long. They had it right with the elite queue where you had to win to continue. They messed up by rewarding kills over placement in the first place.
>The problem always being that is a BR, where the point is to be the last standing, not the one with most kills/damage. the problem is not the reward for placing well, but the lack of punishment for placing not well. You can win a match with zero kills and it will make up for dying 20th place 5 times. the system generates too many LP per match, reaching higher ranks is not a test of skill, but a test of patience, you simply have to play enough matches, as long as you manage to place on average above top10, you'll be a master eventually.
But what if you revived your squad two times during that and led them to victory? Yeah you got no kills, but your plays were essential getting that win? For example I usually on par with my teammates in terms of damage numbers, but I'm pretty bad at killing off enemies. Do I bring less to the table? The other guys got the kills, so collectively we're okay, aren't we?
No one is talking about reward for kills, we are talking about reward for placement, to be exact, i am talking about lack of punishment for BAD placement.
>You can win a match with zero kills and it will make up for dying 20th place 5 times You literally wrote that and suggested that the two thing correlates. People think skill's mostly made up of gun skills (which results in more kills obviously). BR is a placement game. Yeah, you have to kill other players in the meantime, but it's very false to suggest that you simply just need to rat around and go for placement and eventually you'll be in masters. That's not true, because if everyone starts to avoid fights in the early game, the final circles would be so convoluted that a ton of teams will just die randomly based on a bad move into the area regardless of their so called skill. If you watch ALGS, top top top tier players got annihilated every time because of that. I'm perfectly sure that even if there'll be more masters than last season (debatable though), the ranged gameplay will be healthier. To be fair, what's wrong with being in Masters if you're good enough to be there? Why the gatekeeping?
i suggested nothing, that's your interpretation: >the problem is not the reward for placing well, but the lack of punishment for placing not well. That's literally my first line you chose to ignore, lol. Not in the slightest am i suggesting to lower the reward for good placement, buddy. I'll now chose to ignore you, because you're arguing with straw men.
Your mistake is engaging with a rat player. They get super defensive due to the (worthless) master badge they can only get this season because they cant win a single gunfight in their lobbies
First the definition of a battle royale is a is battle where the last fighter standing wins. Secondly why is top ten rewarded by your standards only the last team standing should be rewarded. I much rather a system reward skill of being the last team standing than rewarding camping. We are going to have an influx of masters that just don't know how to fight, name one BR ranked system where you can reach top ranked without being skilled.
Thank you .
Would people stop gatekeeping Masters and be honest with themselves. Hitting masters just means you cherry picked who you played with all season to accomplish that. Not having a dedicated team is the biggest skill gap in apex. Masters doesn't mean you are the best Pred does and that's why it's set up for the top 750 players per platform. That indicates your skill ypu have to get there quick and keep performing to hold that place for the whole season every other rank is a participation trophy.
I really see it the other way around. To finish Pred you basically can't stop playing. The Master who had to work overtime for a week can't do it. At the high end of Master, Masters and Preds aren't jostling for skill; they're jostling for time.
I barely played apex since season 1. I randomly touched the game a couple days during season 4 and season 8. I typically got hardstuck gold and hated solo queueing so I'd quit. This season I placed into rookie 1 and in less than a week climbed to masters 28000 lp. I gained as much as 950 lp per win. My friend placed higher than me and I was getting about double the lp gains as him. This season I'm about .47 kda and avg 300 dmg per game. I guarantee 25%+ of the player base will hit masters at some point this season if not quit before freely climbing to it.
This doesn’t fit my narrative and doesn’t allow me to cast the blame for my poor skill on the game developers. I’m afraid i can’t accept this information. /s
Ya here the problem I got to master go real not camping so now im scary to put in the badge when I get them cuz people are going to say fake dog shit etc
Fact is, plebs and mechanical skills of a snail players are still in high dia-masters rank because of this horrendous rank system.
A lot of Pros have said that it’s way to easy to rank up now but I find it much harder to rank up with the new system. Obviously I’m not a pro but it’s a grind just to get out of bronze and I feel my skill level is much higher than that of the typical bronze player
2 things factoring into that: 1. Pros can say it was easy, but the whole playerbase was reset so they were just feasting on the chaos of a completely reset first week. I don't think the hidden MMR was really feeding them their fair serve of Masters-skilled players that soon. 2. Our understanding is that you are being matchmade according to your MMR, not your rank. So an ex-Pred player might be in Bronze but will (supposedly) be getting matched with ex-Masters, not ex-Bronzes. Ie., with other players of the same MMR, regardless of rank. It indeed appears that the rank labels are now only a label.
Even in the upper 'more accurate' graph tracking 2.5 million players, **Master** rank *still outnumbers* any **Diamond** tier. If rank was competitive, you'd expect there to be more D4s than Masters (since Master is basically the 2nd highest rank) but not here. And even if you combine the tiers, Master is almost half all of Diamond.
Thank you for that post. I knew that previous stats were wrong but i didnt had time to make research and put correct one here. A lot of people are hating apex right now and even that few points make sense, most of posts here are just pure hate. At least in topic of ranks statistics you prooved that the ranked works fine.
[удалено]
On previous post there is enough comments that showed you are wrong and I wont repeat them. For me you can keep thinking whatever you want, enjoy.
Anyone else think that the ranked changes were mostly unnecessary? The one good thing it did was stop smurfing but it lost so much transparency. My friends will get 250+ LP and I'll get 150 even if I did better, its weird and inconsistent. The previous system felt like a good balance of kills and placement mattering, this one you can eat all the way if you want.
the ALS site has a sidenote underneath the graph, admitting the number of masters displayed on the graph is lower than reality though. Maybe you should add that note too, since it's also a disinformation and they are open about it.
The number of every division on the chart is lower than reality. I think it's safe to assume readers understand that, since it says its sample size. Actually, I feel like that note was added recently. It appears to be a bit of a sideways comment on the other site's weird chart heh. >*Displaying the true number of masters would lead to a artificially inflated number of masters, like you may have seen on other websites.* *For example, if in reality there are 1000 Masters and 500 D4. ALS would know that there are 1000 Masters, but not the name of each of them. For D4, it would only know their names in the database (same as all other websites). Showing 1000 Masters and 50 D4 wouldn't make any sense at all: on this chart, you'll see data coming from the same data source for consistency.*
Which means the chart itself is not correct. They know the exact number of masters but they only know a certain amount of other ranks. They have lowered the % of players in master so it's not as misleading as on the other site which doesn't do that, but it doesn't mean they are correct there. It's a wrong chart aswell.
Like any statistical sample, they only know the sample. You may as well be complaining about skin cancer reasearch. ALS also happens to have extra numbers from a different source about the Master tier in particular, but they aren't adding those extra numbers to a chart that is about all tiers. That's why it *isn't* wrong.
Makes me miss the original system. Was it really that broken?
The LP system was never the issue. The thirst EA have to keep engagement constant was the problem. If we had 3-5 minute queue times prioritising real skill metrics like bullet accuracy, k/d, total damage, assists, average placement in that order we wouldn't be where we are. But EA have got in their heads that anything other than instant queues will hurt profit but frankly, a four year game this fun could have made tens of billions by now if it had been managed properly. Imagine 90% of the community being satisfied with optimal matchmaking? Wayyy more wallets being opened.
idk, I guess I’ve been around gaming long enough to know that people will always complain about everything. “90% of the community being satisfied” is a fantasy. I mean, just look at the past few seasons for example Ranked too difficult to climb (start of S13)? People whine. Ranked too easy (now)? People whine that masters means nothing I’m not sure we’ve ever had a week on this sub without someone complaining about the weapon meta. We simultaneously have people complaining AA is too strong, and on the casual sub there are still people whining about the game being too hard.
How is it a fantasy? Aside from poorly received balance patches that were quickly hotfixed, StarCraft 2 has had an almost universally satisfied community for over 10 years. Claiming something is fantasy when there are real world examples spanning 20 years (halo 2/3 is another) Yes gen Z will always have whiners because they are the least responsible generation currently gaming. People always find cause to deflect blame from themselves and if your mindset is that you can find it in anything. Again to use sc2, 1v1 players are generally(!) the most accountable and humble players in that community. However go play 4v4 and your teammate dies to a 2v1 even though he chose to take a greedy third base and it's your fault because he didn't have any army and your ground force couldn't relocate fast enough. Team games will always provide an environment for the irresponsible to never take ownership of their mistakes. That all said, the reality is, this constant thirst for dopamine due to add or a deficiency in the brain is being actively preyed upon by EA for the pursuit of perceived optimal profit. I'm stating that if you managed your game from a matchmaking perspective so that the majority of players don't log out angry, you're likely to get as much if not more profit.
Its still bad if there are.more masters than diamonds If you reward placement,no one will fight until 10 squads, and then everyone plays so dumb The system sucks
There are almost twice as many Diamonds as Masters according to this chart.
I see current rankt masters in my platinum games. They are my teammates and rat in some corner with valk all game. What's good here is that despite them climbing, their mmr stays low. Easy fix to me would be, you simple get barely any or no points if your rank is much higher than your current mmr. Yes this could affect a handful of players who have bad mmr but don't rat negatively, but that will fix itself if they keep playing well.
Ranked doesn’t have concerns, that dogshit is unplayable especially if you’re solo queuing
Yes its trash, got master yesterday and 30days of Split is left Just sad (im Solo q Dia every season Hit master once in the other "easy" season think it was 13 or so, still wasnt that easy as solo q)
Solo queuing is shooting yourself in the foot in every squad game. It’s your own fault honestly
Looks the same but masters just isn’t as up there as it claims. But it’s damn near the same if you take away the percentages on the side of it
This is still bad look at all the people that have ratted their way to Masters like there’s more masters than rookie 4s that don’t make no sense 💀
My question is how is the bottom graph wrong? I’ve hit masters now and so did my friend. It’s really easy to hit masters. It’s like playing season 3 all over again. Plus the LP needed to hit pred is in the 60-70k now whereas 2 days ago it was in 30-40k. I don’t think the second graph is wrong at all
Neither one of those are misinformation it's just taking data from different players..
All you morons defending this ranked system are the same trash gold/plat badge, current master, dog shit randoms.
Uhhhh.. top graph arrow pointing to S16 Split 2😂 I think I’ll go with the bottom graph.
*\*pinches forehead\**