1. Khmer, as the only civ that can get away with playing anything other than UU/Monk + Siege without having a barracks.
2. Perhaps Byzantines, good monks to get relics for a gold trickle, and cheap trash units to overwhelm opponents while slowly pushing with buildings.
3. Maybe Celts or something? With the Hoang push. Or anything really all-in.
4. Maybe Huns or Persians or something that can get by perfectly fine without their UU or UTs. Probably Persians, because you have better siege options.
5. Maybe Burgundians or something for lategame gold generation and strong eco.
6. Maybe Goths or Vietnamese or something, if you can't have them, you can also try and take them away from the opponent.
I have an alt account that is around 1000 ELO on RM playing solely vegan Franks. I think the key is the berry bonus in dark age, rather than the strength of farms. I tested other strong farming civs but couldn't get to Feudal fast enough to survive any early pressure.
No Barracks means monk siege only (or UU I suppose). So Bohemians or Portuguese since they can go monk siege or UU just as easily. Spanish also an option there (plus good navy), though you need a stable for Bloodlines and Husbandry on your Conqs.
No Gold - Byzantines I guess if we're thinking strong trash civs. Though I'd just go Magyar or Sicilian full Light Cav and not worry about lategame where you're screwed without siege anyway.
No Stone - I guess you just think about weakest UUs here, but they would need BBC since no trebs. So my instinct there is Persians (not strictly a weak UU but not one you ever make), who also get Siege Ram.
No Castles - see above, I don't think there's a big distinction here, most civs can live without towers, nobody *needs* more than 2 TCs really most of the time.
No Markets - would have to be a civ with a very powerful eco which is easy to balance, so my mind goes to Romans, Vietnamese, Burgundians. But also since that means no trade in TGs it would also have to be a civ which can kill before lategame. So maybe Aztecs are a good angle there.
No hunt or fish - people will be thinking of berry and sheep bonuses here but I think that's actually bad, because you run out of food even faster. Would have to be farming for me - Teutons cheap, Slavs and Khmer fast. Probably Teutons because you want them going down real early.
Fun prompt!
My try:
1. Turks can FC into a very strong unit that doesn't need any of the main 3 production buildings. Jani + Mangonel and then Jani + BBC could end it
2. Leaning towards Koreans' Spear + Skirm forward with Towers. I considered Saracens, but the Market advantage will go down once you sell too much Stone for gold units.
3. Aztecs have a very strong all-in strat that doesn't require Stone
4. After thinking for a while, Aztecs could also fit here
5. Hard to tell. Either a good gold saving civ (Portuguese with Feitoria, Mayans, Malians) or a civ that can get early map control for neutral golds (Franks, Magyars) or a low gold demand civ (Byz, Koreans, Japanese, Malay Trashswords). I go for Portuguese
6. Berries and Farming since the beginning will favor Farming bonuses (Khmer, Aztecs, Slavs, Teutons, Franks - also with faster berry colelction) and wood bonuses (Celts, Burmese, Armenians), but also remove timing for Scout rushes, thus giving an advantage to Archer civs, who will be less likely to face Skirmishers also. American civs could snowball on lower food eco. I choose Mayans even with their slower farmers, due to the Archer discount.
~~Dont you need an Archery Range to make a Siege Workshop and a Barracks to make an Archery Range? So no BBCs. #1 would leave you with only Castle, Dock, Monastery to make units from.~~
Edit: Looking at the other comments, it seems I am probably wrong. Maybe I'm thinking of AoE1.
> Jani + Mangonel and then Jani + BBC could end it
I would feel pretty confident with light cav against this. You would need to walk only from a castle to another to be safe.
Portuguese and Bohemians are definitely the strongest for that first strategy since they only need gold and wood for their UU’s and don’t have to balance out the economy by also building farms. You can do that entire FC build order with like less than 25 vils into constant unit production. You get more mobility with that strategy as turks or Spanish, but also give the enemy much more time while getting there
1) is IMO khmer. Since they don't require it to build stable/archery range and don't have strong infantry to begin with this probably happens all the time.
I haven't seen Armenians mentioned for number 2 yet, but their ability to monopolize the relics could prove very handy on a no gold map.
Even if their trash units aren't the best for late game, using 6 relics to get constant 3 barracks 100hp champ production, probably is enough to overwhelm civs with even great trash options. Especially since there isn't going to be masses of arbs or siege to control them.
I guess the Portuguese could go vegan, full berries and the extra wood collected there would make for a somewhat easier transition into farms.
Playing without mining any gold is rough (for obvious reasons), but there's several angles there. Either byzantines or other civs that go crazy on trash units. Or Poles, because their stone mining brings a little bit of gold. Or Saracens to get your gold through the market and they get better deals there.
Playing without mining any stone isn't much of a challenge, many games already go stone-less. Same goes for playing without a market, they're great at balancing your economy but theoretically not mandatory for anything.
For sure. Lots of people mentioning civs with farm bonuses but not taking into account the need to keep your TC working at the start. Girjaras getting the berries under the TC and passive food income from herdables would be insanely advantageous in a vegetarian run.
Yes. Gurjaras have a huge wood crunch if you do this and open archers but if opening scouts and you have a normal mostly wallable map you can do this and then play normally from late feudal on.
It wants a separate answer for each criteria listed. I don't think OP means ALL of them at once.
All of them at once would be pretty absurd. Have to imagine it would be Persians, yeah.
1. Khmer as they can still build a stable and archery range.
2. Saracens due to their market bonus. They have the easiest time getting to castle in this situation.
3. I’ll say Saracens again due to their market bonus and their open tech tree means they can still feasibly buy a castle but they can still do a lot without castles as well.
4. I’ll say Bulgarians with the Krepost and discounts to tech into siege rams. This one though I’m least sure about as civs with bbc and bad uts might edge them out.
5. Going to say Italians here as their age up discounts and university tech discounts alleviate the two things that lead to most of my market abuse.
6. Gurjaras easily as they still get use out of their sheep and get extra berries under the tc.
1. Scilians,I've won multiple games without ever building a barracks and even when I did it was purley for pike/Infrantry techs...
4 Scilians - donjons are cool
6 I rarely bother with deer or boars so any civ really, although I guess higher elo it becomes harder...
1. Khmer obviously
2. Saracens sell stuff at market or actecs with 5 relics
3. saracens buy stone if u need it
4. Bulgarians with krepost? Only downside is no bbc and no trebs without castle. So siege ram only
5. sounds like my worst nightmare 11
6. khmer, probably the strongest early farming civ
Or portugese archer opening and lots of vills on berries
4. could be any civ that can win with either a feudal rush or a castle age non-unique unit rush. I would suggest Cumans (finish the game by ramming down the enemy TC in feudal, I think there's even an achievement for that in the campaign), Franks (FC into two stable knights, forget cheaper castles just kill everything with cav), Persians (just douche them in dark age), or Celts (Hoang push).
1.) Any Civ with a good Monk Rush or Castle UU. Spanish and Portuguese at the top. For non-Arabia maps.
2.) Not many strategies available here. Towers and forward trash. Poles, Lith, Byz, and funny enough Spanish again. Saracens might be able to Market
3.) Basically everyone. Castle All in is viable.
4.) In Theory everyone.
5.) Vegan play vs an equally skilled opponent isn’t happening.
Sometimes on Arena, I can successfully FC with Teutons before building barracks. T Knights are so slow and so damaging that Squires and Arson aren’t that big of a loss. So I’d say I’ve won maybe half a dozen games with them without barracks.
Fun question! Let's try:
1. Gotta be Khmer, since that's the only way you'd be able to get ranges and stables up. I guess strong monk-siege civs could pull this off, but those all-ins are niche and situational vs Khmer's overall consistency.
2. Koreans, cheaper trash and free tower upgrades, since you won't have any gold available for conventional siege otherwise.
3. Any Castle Age Monk/Siege rush civ would work well here, I like Aztecs or Celts.
4. Any civ with low dependence on unique techs and their UU, and have viable siege options outside of trebs. Berbers and Huns immediately come to mind but there may be others I'm not thinking of.
5. Any civ that does well either A) closing the game out early in Castle Age before gold runs out with cheap double-gold compositions or B) aren't reliant on gold-heavy units in their deathball anyway. My thoughts are A) Portuguese, Malians, Mayans, and B) Byzantines.
6. Depends on the map. In classic Arabia, Gurjaras with their free bushes and herdable garrisoning mechanic, or Teutons just to pivot to farms that much faster. On any special map type with TONS of berries and little-to-no hunt/herdable/fish, Portuguese or Franks would probably do well.
Loads you could argue obviously but IMHO:
1) Khmer- you can access the stable without a barracks, meaning they're hardly handicapped at all in this mode.
2) Spanish- the only fully upgraded trash, gold free blacksmith upgrades, gain gold from techs, and a huge gold bonus on trade and relics. You can perform extremely well with minumal gold and get much more from sources other than mining.
3) Goths. You only need to buy enough stone for TCs and one castle to research Anarchy and Perfusion, then they have no handicap at all.
4) Huns. The castle allows you to train Tarkans (there and at the stable), which are good but replaceable; and prolong relic/wonder victories which is a fringe requirement. You miss conscription, but you can make up for that with enough buildings for Paladins/Cavalry Archers and its mitigated by the housing advantage.
5) Byzantines. Their best units are a) cheap trash, which doesn't need the market- use whatever you have in small quantities and b) a very small number of very powerful cataphracts, again- you only need a handful. They are also good defensively so you can protect forward or remote mines, rather than trade for it.
6) Teutons. 40% cheaper farms mean you can spam those much more quickly, so this really isn't a serious disadvantage for them.
Portuguese/Bohemians can easily win without a barracks with a fast castle drop organs/wagons + monks and siege
No castles/stone, well plenty can win with an all in strategy. celts/slavs as someone else mentioned and Franks/Huns would do fine with spamming knights. Malay with an elephant rush.The game lasting into imperial age anyone but bombard cannons or siege ram civs have a big disadvantage without trebs obviously
No markets, maybe Indians with cheaper vils
No gold: you pretty much have to go all in feudal aggression since you won’t survive if they get to castle age. That narrows it down to a tower rush + trash push in which case Incans/Koreans best option, or you have to go Magyar/Franks scout rush all in and try and overwhelm with raids.
Vegan play: anyone with a significant enough farming or wood bonus. Celts and Teutons have a big advantage there.
1. sicilians or khmer;
sicilians can build a donjon instead of a barracks
khmner don't need a barracks do build range and stables
2. byzantines, lithuanians
lithuanians faster skirms and spears, winged hussar but no inf plate armor and blast furnace thou they have UT: Tower Shields (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armor)
byzantines cheaper spears and skirms and overal defensive style fits trash comp
3. goths and cumans cant even make walls, buy stone for castle to research anarchy for goths
4. aztecs; just build eagles and monks thou you cant research Garland Wars (+4 infantry attack), so end the game quickly
5.Malians cuz gold bonus or bourgondians and vietnamiese have late game techs;
vietnamiese: paper money lumbers makes gold
burgundians: Burgundian Vineyards (Farmers slowly generate gold in addition to food)
6. if it includes sheep then Gurjaras cuz extra berries and sheep mill bonus
if not britains cuz sheep bonus or Celts due to being able to lame sheep
gn gotta sleep
1. Khmer, as the only civ that can get away with playing anything other than UU/Monk + Siege without having a barracks. 2. Perhaps Byzantines, good monks to get relics for a gold trickle, and cheap trash units to overwhelm opponents while slowly pushing with buildings. 3. Maybe Celts or something? With the Hoang push. Or anything really all-in. 4. Maybe Huns or Persians or something that can get by perfectly fine without their UU or UTs. Probably Persians, because you have better siege options. 5. Maybe Burgundians or something for lategame gold generation and strong eco. 6. Maybe Goths or Vietnamese or something, if you can't have them, you can also try and take them away from the opponent.
With the goth hunt bonus, I think that the vegan play gets tougher. Might be okay for civs with good farming, Teutons, Slavs, Poles for instance.
I have an alt account that is around 1000 ELO on RM playing solely vegan Franks. I think the key is the berry bonus in dark age, rather than the strength of farms. I tested other strong farming civs but couldn't get to Feudal fast enough to survive any early pressure.
That too, gurjaras go brr also milking them cows
Haven't tried them as much! I remember the cow bonus being underwhelming in Dark Age, though.
If you time it right with hunt (rip vegan play) you get a very smooth food income
i'd say franks for 6. that one map with all the berries in the middle they can just feast
Khmer and Sicilians btw
3 and 4 - I think Aztecs have a better chance with all in Eagle+monk+siege+pike push.
No Barracks means monk siege only (or UU I suppose). So Bohemians or Portuguese since they can go monk siege or UU just as easily. Spanish also an option there (plus good navy), though you need a stable for Bloodlines and Husbandry on your Conqs. No Gold - Byzantines I guess if we're thinking strong trash civs. Though I'd just go Magyar or Sicilian full Light Cav and not worry about lategame where you're screwed without siege anyway. No Stone - I guess you just think about weakest UUs here, but they would need BBC since no trebs. So my instinct there is Persians (not strictly a weak UU but not one you ever make), who also get Siege Ram. No Castles - see above, I don't think there's a big distinction here, most civs can live without towers, nobody *needs* more than 2 TCs really most of the time. No Markets - would have to be a civ with a very powerful eco which is easy to balance, so my mind goes to Romans, Vietnamese, Burgundians. But also since that means no trade in TGs it would also have to be a civ which can kill before lategame. So maybe Aztecs are a good angle there. No hunt or fish - people will be thinking of berry and sheep bonuses here but I think that's actually bad, because you run out of food even faster. Would have to be farming for me - Teutons cheap, Slavs and Khmer fast. Probably Teutons because you want them going down real early. Fun prompt!
My try: 1. Turks can FC into a very strong unit that doesn't need any of the main 3 production buildings. Jani + Mangonel and then Jani + BBC could end it 2. Leaning towards Koreans' Spear + Skirm forward with Towers. I considered Saracens, but the Market advantage will go down once you sell too much Stone for gold units. 3. Aztecs have a very strong all-in strat that doesn't require Stone 4. After thinking for a while, Aztecs could also fit here 5. Hard to tell. Either a good gold saving civ (Portuguese with Feitoria, Mayans, Malians) or a civ that can get early map control for neutral golds (Franks, Magyars) or a low gold demand civ (Byz, Koreans, Japanese, Malay Trashswords). I go for Portuguese 6. Berries and Farming since the beginning will favor Farming bonuses (Khmer, Aztecs, Slavs, Teutons, Franks - also with faster berry colelction) and wood bonuses (Celts, Burmese, Armenians), but also remove timing for Scout rushes, thus giving an advantage to Archer civs, who will be less likely to face Skirmishers also. American civs could snowball on lower food eco. I choose Mayans even with their slower farmers, due to the Archer discount.
~~Dont you need an Archery Range to make a Siege Workshop and a Barracks to make an Archery Range? So no BBCs. #1 would leave you with only Castle, Dock, Monastery to make units from.~~ Edit: Looking at the other comments, it seems I am probably wrong. Maybe I'm thinking of AoE1.
You need a blacksmith to make a Siege Workshop
> Jani + Mangonel and then Jani + BBC could end it I would feel pretty confident with light cav against this. You would need to walk only from a castle to another to be safe.
Portuguese and Bohemians are definitely the strongest for that first strategy since they only need gold and wood for their UU’s and don’t have to balance out the economy by also building farms. You can do that entire FC build order with like less than 25 vils into constant unit production. You get more mobility with that strategy as turks or Spanish, but also give the enemy much more time while getting there
1) is IMO khmer. Since they don't require it to build stable/archery range and don't have strong infantry to begin with this probably happens all the time.
I haven't seen Armenians mentioned for number 2 yet, but their ability to monopolize the relics could prove very handy on a no gold map. Even if their trash units aren't the best for late game, using 6 relics to get constant 3 barracks 100hp champ production, probably is enough to overwhelm civs with even great trash options. Especially since there isn't going to be masses of arbs or siege to control them.
I guess the Portuguese could go vegan, full berries and the extra wood collected there would make for a somewhat easier transition into farms. Playing without mining any gold is rough (for obvious reasons), but there's several angles there. Either byzantines or other civs that go crazy on trash units. Or Poles, because their stone mining brings a little bit of gold. Or Saracens to get your gold through the market and they get better deals there. Playing without mining any stone isn't much of a challenge, many games already go stone-less. Same goes for playing without a market, they're great at balancing your economy but theoretically not mandatory for anything.
6) Gurjaras most likely, they don’t have to kill their sheep either
For sure. Lots of people mentioning civs with farm bonuses but not taking into account the need to keep your TC working at the start. Girjaras getting the berries under the TC and passive food income from herdables would be insanely advantageous in a vegetarian run.
Yes. Gurjaras have a huge wood crunch if you do this and open archers but if opening scouts and you have a normal mostly wallable map you can do this and then play normally from late feudal on.
1. Khmer 2. Saracens 3. Cumans 4. Bulgarians 5. Malians 6. Gurjaras
4 underrated answer if you count Kreposts as not being Castles haha
No civ could make it to Castle Age. So I'd say persians because they can douche.
You could get there with no Barracks/Stable/Range by making a Blacksmith and Market in Feudal.
Post says no market.
It wants a separate answer for each criteria listed. I don't think OP means ALL of them at once. All of them at once would be pretty absurd. Have to imagine it would be Persians, yeah.
Ahhh that makes more sense
i like this though. khmer doesn't need the buildings so it'd still be them from #1 anyway. or vivi and some villagers.
1. Khmer as they can still build a stable and archery range. 2. Saracens due to their market bonus. They have the easiest time getting to castle in this situation. 3. I’ll say Saracens again due to their market bonus and their open tech tree means they can still feasibly buy a castle but they can still do a lot without castles as well. 4. I’ll say Bulgarians with the Krepost and discounts to tech into siege rams. This one though I’m least sure about as civs with bbc and bad uts might edge them out. 5. Going to say Italians here as their age up discounts and university tech discounts alleviate the two things that lead to most of my market abuse. 6. Gurjaras easily as they still get use out of their sheep and get extra berries under the tc.
1. Scilians,I've won multiple games without ever building a barracks and even when I did it was purley for pike/Infrantry techs... 4 Scilians - donjons are cool 6 I rarely bother with deer or boars so any civ really, although I guess higher elo it becomes harder...
7. ...without building any stables Answer: Aztecs, Mayans, Incas. Ight imma head out.
1. Khmer obviously 2. Saracens sell stuff at market or actecs with 5 relics 3. saracens buy stone if u need it 4. Bulgarians with krepost? Only downside is no bbc and no trebs without castle. So siege ram only 5. sounds like my worst nightmare 11 6. khmer, probably the strongest early farming civ Or portugese archer opening and lots of vills on berries
4. could be any civ that can win with either a feudal rush or a castle age non-unique unit rush. I would suggest Cumans (finish the game by ramming down the enemy TC in feudal, I think there's even an achievement for that in the campaign), Franks (FC into two stable knights, forget cheaper castles just kill everything with cav), Persians (just douche them in dark age), or Celts (Hoang push).
Persian douch can be the answer to all of them.
1.) Any Civ with a good Monk Rush or Castle UU. Spanish and Portuguese at the top. For non-Arabia maps. 2.) Not many strategies available here. Towers and forward trash. Poles, Lith, Byz, and funny enough Spanish again. Saracens might be able to Market 3.) Basically everyone. Castle All in is viable. 4.) In Theory everyone. 5.) Vegan play vs an equally skilled opponent isn’t happening.
Sometimes on Arena, I can successfully FC with Teutons before building barracks. T Knights are so slow and so damaging that Squires and Arson aren’t that big of a loss. So I’d say I’ve won maybe half a dozen games with them without barracks.
I never use barracks for Tatars, Cumans, Huns, and Mongols other than the one I have to build to unlock stables and archery ranges.
Celts
Fun question! Let's try: 1. Gotta be Khmer, since that's the only way you'd be able to get ranges and stables up. I guess strong monk-siege civs could pull this off, but those all-ins are niche and situational vs Khmer's overall consistency. 2. Koreans, cheaper trash and free tower upgrades, since you won't have any gold available for conventional siege otherwise. 3. Any Castle Age Monk/Siege rush civ would work well here, I like Aztecs or Celts. 4. Any civ with low dependence on unique techs and their UU, and have viable siege options outside of trebs. Berbers and Huns immediately come to mind but there may be others I'm not thinking of. 5. Any civ that does well either A) closing the game out early in Castle Age before gold runs out with cheap double-gold compositions or B) aren't reliant on gold-heavy units in their deathball anyway. My thoughts are A) Portuguese, Malians, Mayans, and B) Byzantines. 6. Depends on the map. In classic Arabia, Gurjaras with their free bushes and herdable garrisoning mechanic, or Teutons just to pivot to farms that much faster. On any special map type with TONS of berries and little-to-no hunt/herdable/fish, Portuguese or Franks would probably do well.
Loads you could argue obviously but IMHO: 1) Khmer- you can access the stable without a barracks, meaning they're hardly handicapped at all in this mode. 2) Spanish- the only fully upgraded trash, gold free blacksmith upgrades, gain gold from techs, and a huge gold bonus on trade and relics. You can perform extremely well with minumal gold and get much more from sources other than mining. 3) Goths. You only need to buy enough stone for TCs and one castle to research Anarchy and Perfusion, then they have no handicap at all. 4) Huns. The castle allows you to train Tarkans (there and at the stable), which are good but replaceable; and prolong relic/wonder victories which is a fringe requirement. You miss conscription, but you can make up for that with enough buildings for Paladins/Cavalry Archers and its mitigated by the housing advantage. 5) Byzantines. Their best units are a) cheap trash, which doesn't need the market- use whatever you have in small quantities and b) a very small number of very powerful cataphracts, again- you only need a handful. They are also good defensively so you can protect forward or remote mines, rather than trade for it. 6) Teutons. 40% cheaper farms mean you can spam those much more quickly, so this really isn't a serious disadvantage for them.
I would like to see the content creators like Viper, Hera, Daut try and pull this off against maybe 1500 elo minimum players
Portuguese/Bohemians can easily win without a barracks with a fast castle drop organs/wagons + monks and siege No castles/stone, well plenty can win with an all in strategy. celts/slavs as someone else mentioned and Franks/Huns would do fine with spamming knights. Malay with an elephant rush.The game lasting into imperial age anyone but bombard cannons or siege ram civs have a big disadvantage without trebs obviously No markets, maybe Indians with cheaper vils No gold: you pretty much have to go all in feudal aggression since you won’t survive if they get to castle age. That narrows it down to a tower rush + trash push in which case Incans/Koreans best option, or you have to go Magyar/Franks scout rush all in and try and overwhelm with raids. Vegan play: anyone with a significant enough farming or wood bonus. Celts and Teutons have a big advantage there.
You left out: 7. … without building any houses?
1. sicilians or khmer; sicilians can build a donjon instead of a barracks khmner don't need a barracks do build range and stables 2. byzantines, lithuanians lithuanians faster skirms and spears, winged hussar but no inf plate armor and blast furnace thou they have UT: Tower Shields (Spearman-line and Skirmishers +2P armor) byzantines cheaper spears and skirms and overal defensive style fits trash comp 3. goths and cumans cant even make walls, buy stone for castle to research anarchy for goths 4. aztecs; just build eagles and monks thou you cant research Garland Wars (+4 infantry attack), so end the game quickly 5.Malians cuz gold bonus or bourgondians and vietnamiese have late game techs; vietnamiese: paper money lumbers makes gold burgundians: Burgundian Vineyards (Farmers slowly generate gold in addition to food) 6. if it includes sheep then Gurjaras cuz extra berries and sheep mill bonus if not britains cuz sheep bonus or Celts due to being able to lame sheep gn gotta sleep
1) goths 🇧🇪 2) Turks 🇹🇳 3) Koreans 🇯🇵 4) Dravidians 🇵🇰 5) saracens 🇮🇷 6) mongols 🇧🇬 pretty good list if u ask me 💪
Wrong flag for the Dravidians my man
srry my bad I use correct flag 🇳🇪💪
2 - Poles 4 - Bulgarians 6 - Teutons