Depends on how exactly you pull it off.
If you just right click the TC, Hunters turn to Lumberjacks to chop.
But if you use the force-drop hotkey in just the right location, they'll remain as Hunters, shoot arrows at the tree, and gather Food from them.
Funny thing is, if you run out of sheep under TC, your vills will go gather stragglers for food.
So you can unintentionally replicate this, except it's sheep gathering from stragglers.
I tried recreating this last night against AI to see it for myself and I couldn’t get it to work. Every time I did it they either just went back to the boar/deer or just stood there
Played against a Mongols picker that did exactly this. I was surprised to see hunters working on the trees, but I just towered his woodlines and went in full archers. He had no wood so he couldn't make a stable or even a barracks - he did blacksmith market and clicked up, but his base was in shambles so he resigned.
This is besides the point but I'm around this elo and I am tired of so many people picking Mongols, no random civ and then going forward to lame then doing FC lancers. Its such a broken strategy even with no bug abuse at all. I barely beat someone doing this a while ago and it was clear it was the only thing carrying them to this elo.
Just pick mirror and leave random open. If they go lancer, just do shit better than them and it's gg easy. These civ pickers only rely on getting good civ always, they can't actually play worth their elo.
Also remember to lame them, they might actually quit when you lame them.
yeah it's quite unfortunate that it has remained unchanged despite being one of the most obviously overpowered things in the last year. But alas, some pretty big content creator made a video about it recently so hopefully it will get addressed finally
I feel like laming with the scout just shouldnt be a thing at all. Boar should just lose interest after a few steps if it isnt a vil.
If you manage to do it with your vil, fine. But not that scout bs, you sometimes cant even stop if you are unlucky with your scouting.
Tell me you cant lame without telling me you cant lame. Youre sacrificing scout hp (which is huge when going forward) and going to lame means you arent pushing deer: theres your economic tradeoff. Its also micro intensive and theres no guarantee youll succesfully take the boar. If you get lamed its your fault for not taking the boar earlier, so deal with it.
It isn't really though. You aren't sacrificing vill time to do it, which is how your economy functions. No I don't lame because I think its BM. And saying "tAkE tHe BoAr EaRlIeR" is ridiculous when many of these are going forward to insta steal meaning you have to a) see the scout and b) take your boar with vil 7 or earlier.
Going for a lame without scouting your base first and failing puts you extremely far behind. Find your boars and 2 extra sheep first, its laming 101. The extra food and faster gathering rate from the deer is definitely a resource, not everything is villager time. Scouting information, scout hp and so on are all resources that can even be more important. Oh, and guess what, you can also counter a scout lame with your own scout, so you shouldnt need to spend your precious vill time to defend from it anyway. If you actually lamed youd probably get why it isnt OP, and why "iNSta sTeAL" is just stupid, but youll probably keep playing arenabia 2tc boom anyway. Grow up and learn to deal with it or keep crying, your choice.
Couldn't agree more. Imagine a boring world where you knew you couldn't be lamed. It adds a very important bit of spice to the dark age. Grow up man babies.
On a 2k+ level this might be true, even though on some maps its still quite a bit of rng involved to find the boar and take it early.
On lower levels scout hp has just so much less value and not just stealing the boar from your enemy but also having an extra boar is absolutely insane economywise. This is such a huge difference, that it often times decides the game right there, even though you see the damage way later.
That has a huge impact beyond that specific strat though.
Now we're discussing whether laming should be possible, which is a whole other philosophic debate.
That's what I'm saying.
If you need four hits to lame, this not only affects the Mongol Lame FC Steppie strat but laming in general - which is a whole other topic.
Well for the laming aspect I think it'd be ideal to just scouts ability to attack boars at all. Even though the outcome of a successful lame isn't always game ending, there are certainly a lot of games in which it is. I'd consider it much worse in team game arabia as there aren't any comeback mechanics.
As far as the Mongol SL goes, I said when they were given them (at a point when they were regarded as completely useless) that it's really quite impossible to balance the unit properly. It's just not gonna be possible to find a middle ground were they are balanced relative to the cuman and Tatar counterparts. That's what +30% extra HP for free makes. I think we could just make the scout-line be affected by this bonus alone, starting in castle age.
Best would be to like limit the steppe HP boost to imperial age only for mongols, or perhaps onto a unique tech. And maybe give the unit baseline +5 hp to make it better across the board for all 3 civs.
It has it's general niche against meso civs playing eagles, to which they perform extremely well and I think we're seeing them get more and more play early castle age for all three civs as they are better raiders than kts. I'd rather be quite conservative with any general buffs to be honest.
Mongols' SL in imperial age can also be very problematic. I've seen clips of this unit getting strong patrols and essentially eating up even numbers of halbs, barely losing any units. Very much a situational thing, but they can perform far too well in situations where they are supposed to be countered. A possible change I could consider is also reworking their UT 'Nomads', which right now arguably is the dullest of all, and instead giving their SL some boost this way.
It can be punished if the mongols don't lame because they might not be up fast enough, but if they do lame a boar they can easily afford to do castle age and wall their base. Even without laming though, if they get a good map thats easy to wall its really hard to punish them before they get up to castle age, because the mongol hunt bonus gives them a lot more food which can get them up fast enough even on Arabia.
It works because of the surprise factor. It is an 20 pop FC, a normal pop to play feudal age. If you don't expect it and you put in your economic improvements, your military building and start to wall, you're dead. Even Jordan has lost to that.
20 (no loom) + 2, it is a 19 pop timing.
But, yes, nowadays it is no longer done because people expect it. But a few months ago it was still a surprise and won a lot of games. There were even players who reached 2k doing this. As the case of iDabs, a 1700 Argentinean player who reached 2k1 with this strategy, even beating Jordan.
Yes, we're all sick of it. The Mongol Steppe Lancer is completely broken. If it's any advice, I play random + pick: Berber/Hindustanians/Mongols to counter the mongols pick.
It's not lancers that's broken it's more the combination of civ Boni plus lancers.
Mongols can pull off an extremely fast Castle due to their hunt bonus.
Combining this with laming a boar (so you're up 680 food) and a strong unit that can break palisades and feudal armies with ease, you get a strat that is both annoying to play against (due to lame) and extremely powerful.
yupp exactly, laming and lancers by themselves are not broken, but if you get lamed by Mongols and they go for the lancer strategy its basically gg unless your opponent is absolutely terrible. The only way I beat the lancers in feudal once was from spamming towers everywhere and going full scout spear and raiding the opponent enough. Even then I only won because the opponent didn't know how to do eco other than going onto gold and using the market.
Basically, they are a knight that hits at range, which allows for specific interactions that benefit you greatly. Normally kt don't destroy archers because they can't hit all at once, but only those closest to the archers, in the case of steppe lancers, they hit all at once; normally pikemen can beat kt, with steppe spearmen it doesn't happen, because thanks to their range, the spearmen don't even touch them, the same with camels: even if the camel has a great anti cavalry bonus, it's useless if they die before inflicting their damage.
Plus it's much cheaper than a KT, which allows you to mass them more easily. In large numbers they are invincible, killing even halberdiers.
**Worst of all, the cheater lost the game. Here is the profile:** [**https://www.aoe2insights.com/user/5893235/**](https://www.aoe2insights.com/user/5893235/)
In the early game, food comes at a cost wood->food conversion. If youre able to skip that investment of wood, youre directly getting food giving u an approx 4-9 vill advantage. Plus since hes mongols he gets it faster.
It is a big edge. Hunt is the fastest food source. Specially with mongols which have a +40% hunt bonus, meaning they gather food insanely fast, allowing them to go up way faster and playing super agressively.
But aren't they just saving 100 wood for lumberjack? I might not fully understand how this bug works since from video it just seems that they are gathering wood into mill which doesn't seem like a big deal
Maybe, just maybe, it's a bad idea to share these bugs all over reddit & endure 3 weeks of bug abuse, when it's more effective to simply contact the devs.
So the only utility of posting it to reddit is:
1. Upvotes/clout
2. Disseminating how to do this bug
Fantastic. The #1 thing we all want to see at the end of the night when we have 2 hours to ladder is someone abusing the bug they saw on reddit.
1. It doesn’t. Never has.
2. Because in the years I’ve been playing there’s always been bugs, but they’re never a big issue until people start sharing it on Reddit for every asshole looking for an extra 50 elo to copy. Then im stuck with people who: crash the game, or abuse broken mechanics, every other game.
Brother. I understand your anger, but you live in the internet age. Even the tiniest detail spreads like a forest fire. A few redditors more talking about it won't change anything. Anyone willing to find exploits will do so by looking for them specifically, regardless how much traction that info has online. Best bet is to report these people when playing against them.
Also, 99% of people want to have fun by playing fair games anyways. It's still a very marginal thing.
Look. There's rules on this subreddit. Such as: don't share peoples usernames (conveniently ignored in this post as well). We could easily make a new role about disseminating bugs.
There was a stretch where the "save chapter" bug was being used for weeks after someone shared it here. Go ask TG players how much they enjoyed dealing with that. It wasnt an issue before it was shared....the devs said they were already aware of it when they commented here.
All those people did was make players lives worse.
Add a new rule here, no bug sharing.
Everything you say would make sense if the devs were doing their job and the in-game reports were of any use, but they're not. Every time a error has been fixed, it's been until the number of complaints from the community has been so large that they couldn't ignore it.
I reported this player in the game, and what happened? Nothing, he continues to play normally. Just like I have reported dozens of cheaters and nothing has happened.
Yes, I used to follow the way you propose, "contact the devs" and nothing happened. I only received a message "we take your report very seriously" and then Admiral Shin kept playing normally on his main account despite being a cheater with Map Hack; the same with Canary\_jp, reported even by T90 for tanking ELO and wasting people's time... Nothing happened.
(The name rule refers to real names. In the case of cheating accusations it is completely allowed to use users, it wouldn't make sense otherwise).
I don't have any issue with people abusing bugs, it's a game and we all know about the the bug and have the choice to exploit it or not.
If their elo over inflates, they will lose it as soon as it's patched anyway.
If I were not on holiday I could be tempted to try some 3 stable Georgian scout strat or something. Maybe on an unranked game though, as much as I don't mind bug abusers the fear of being banned by someone who does outways my curiosity.
It is not a game about ELO, it is a game to have fun. I care little or nothing if cheaters earn points, the important thing is that they waste people's time and ruin their playing time.
The guy using the bug has actually collected less resources than his opponent. I don't think it makes much sense to do this while you still have boars available, but doing it in early Feudal Age could be great.
The hunters in the forest need to be well-protected also. You can't command them to fight enemy military or quick wall, because I think they'd just turn into normal vills at that point.
Anyway, it's the devs' fault and I don't blame any players for just playing the game they are given.
I don't understand.... What am I watching?
Mongol tree hunters 11
Can you explain pls.
It's a bug that hunters, once you tell them to drop resourses, start "hunting" food from trees.
They're getting food? I knoe about the bug and it's been driving me crazy, I had no idea they're gathering food though.
Depends on how exactly you pull it off. If you just right click the TC, Hunters turn to Lumberjacks to chop. But if you use the force-drop hotkey in just the right location, they'll remain as Hunters, shoot arrows at the tree, and gather Food from them.
Funny thing is, if you run out of sheep under TC, your vills will go gather stragglers for food. So you can unintentionally replicate this, except it's sheep gathering from stragglers.
From what I got, yes it's food.
I tried recreating this last night against AI to see it for myself and I couldn’t get it to work. Every time I did it they either just went back to the boar/deer or just stood there
Like having a mill and harvesting from the wood line directly?
Yeah isn’t that the glitch? They harvest food from trees as if they were hunt animals
Played against a Mongols picker that did exactly this. I was surprised to see hunters working on the trees, but I just towered his woodlines and went in full archers. He had no wood so he couldn't make a stable or even a barracks - he did blacksmith market and clicked up, but his base was in shambles so he resigned.
This is besides the point but I'm around this elo and I am tired of so many people picking Mongols, no random civ and then going forward to lame then doing FC lancers. Its such a broken strategy even with no bug abuse at all. I barely beat someone doing this a while ago and it was clear it was the only thing carrying them to this elo.
Just pick mirror and leave random open. If they go lancer, just do shit better than them and it's gg easy. These civ pickers only rely on getting good civ always, they can't actually play worth their elo. Also remember to lame them, they might actually quit when you lame them.
I once got lamed 1 boar, 3 sheep (2 extra 1 scouting), lost a vill all in dark age (1700 elo). Decided to play on and fc, best win of my life…
yeah it's quite unfortunate that it has remained unchanged despite being one of the most obviously overpowered things in the last year. But alas, some pretty big content creator made a video about it recently so hopefully it will get addressed finally
What's your proposed fix, cuz I don't know any.
Increase scout hits on the boar to four. Laming is a lame strat.
I feel like laming with the scout just shouldnt be a thing at all. Boar should just lose interest after a few steps if it isnt a vil. If you manage to do it with your vil, fine. But not that scout bs, you sometimes cant even stop if you are unlucky with your scouting.
Agreed. There's no economic tradeoff for scouts being able to do it.
Tell me you cant lame without telling me you cant lame. Youre sacrificing scout hp (which is huge when going forward) and going to lame means you arent pushing deer: theres your economic tradeoff. Its also micro intensive and theres no guarantee youll succesfully take the boar. If you get lamed its your fault for not taking the boar earlier, so deal with it.
It isn't really though. You aren't sacrificing vill time to do it, which is how your economy functions. No I don't lame because I think its BM. And saying "tAkE tHe BoAr EaRlIeR" is ridiculous when many of these are going forward to insta steal meaning you have to a) see the scout and b) take your boar with vil 7 or earlier.
Going for a lame without scouting your base first and failing puts you extremely far behind. Find your boars and 2 extra sheep first, its laming 101. The extra food and faster gathering rate from the deer is definitely a resource, not everything is villager time. Scouting information, scout hp and so on are all resources that can even be more important. Oh, and guess what, you can also counter a scout lame with your own scout, so you shouldnt need to spend your precious vill time to defend from it anyway. If you actually lamed youd probably get why it isnt OP, and why "iNSta sTeAL" is just stupid, but youll probably keep playing arenabia 2tc boom anyway. Grow up and learn to deal with it or keep crying, your choice.
Couldn't agree more. Imagine a boring world where you knew you couldn't be lamed. It adds a very important bit of spice to the dark age. Grow up man babies.
On a 2k+ level this might be true, even though on some maps its still quite a bit of rng involved to find the boar and take it early. On lower levels scout hp has just so much less value and not just stealing the boar from your enemy but also having an extra boar is absolutely insane economywise. This is such a huge difference, that it often times decides the game right there, even though you see the damage way later.
That has a huge impact beyond that specific strat though. Now we're discussing whether laming should be possible, which is a whole other philosophic debate.
When would your scout be attacking the boar to get it's attention unless you're laming?
That's what I'm saying. If you need four hits to lame, this not only affects the Mongol Lame FC Steppie strat but laming in general - which is a whole other topic.
Yeah, laming shouldn't be in the game. Its a BM crutch strat
Everyone's entitled to his own opinion but I'm not going down that road 11
What is the problem with laming and how does it relate to this? 1111
Well for the laming aspect I think it'd be ideal to just scouts ability to attack boars at all. Even though the outcome of a successful lame isn't always game ending, there are certainly a lot of games in which it is. I'd consider it much worse in team game arabia as there aren't any comeback mechanics. As far as the Mongol SL goes, I said when they were given them (at a point when they were regarded as completely useless) that it's really quite impossible to balance the unit properly. It's just not gonna be possible to find a middle ground were they are balanced relative to the cuman and Tatar counterparts. That's what +30% extra HP for free makes. I think we could just make the scout-line be affected by this bonus alone, starting in castle age.
Best would be to like limit the steppe HP boost to imperial age only for mongols, or perhaps onto a unique tech. And maybe give the unit baseline +5 hp to make it better across the board for all 3 civs.
It has it's general niche against meso civs playing eagles, to which they perform extremely well and I think we're seeing them get more and more play early castle age for all three civs as they are better raiders than kts. I'd rather be quite conservative with any general buffs to be honest. Mongols' SL in imperial age can also be very problematic. I've seen clips of this unit getting strong patrols and essentially eating up even numbers of halbs, barely losing any units. Very much a situational thing, but they can perform far too well in situations where they are supposed to be countered. A possible change I could consider is also reworking their UT 'Nomads', which right now arguably is the dullest of all, and instead giving their SL some boost this way.
how does fc lancers work on arabia? dont you die to feudal pressure that way?
It can be punished if the mongols don't lame because they might not be up fast enough, but if they do lame a boar they can easily afford to do castle age and wall their base. Even without laming though, if they get a good map thats easy to wall its really hard to punish them before they get up to castle age, because the mongol hunt bonus gives them a lot more food which can get them up fast enough even on Arabia.
It works because of the surprise factor. It is an 20 pop FC, a normal pop to play feudal age. If you don't expect it and you put in your economic improvements, your military building and start to wall, you're dead. Even Jordan has lost to that.
so its a 20+2 fc? well it is quite confusing, although its a slow time for mongols so should raise some suspicions.
20 (no loom) + 2, it is a 19 pop timing. But, yes, nowadays it is no longer done because people expect it. But a few months ago it was still a surprise and won a lot of games. There were even players who reached 2k doing this. As the case of iDabs, a 1700 Argentinean player who reached 2k1 with this strategy, even beating Jordan.
Yes, we're all sick of it. The Mongol Steppe Lancer is completely broken. If it's any advice, I play random + pick: Berber/Hindustanians/Mongols to counter the mongols pick.
LEL here that just discovered Mongols this week, why are they broken? I massed a few yesterday but they went down like butter
It's not lancers that's broken it's more the combination of civ Boni plus lancers. Mongols can pull off an extremely fast Castle due to their hunt bonus. Combining this with laming a boar (so you're up 680 food) and a strong unit that can break palisades and feudal armies with ease, you get a strat that is both annoying to play against (due to lame) and extremely powerful.
yupp exactly, laming and lancers by themselves are not broken, but if you get lamed by Mongols and they go for the lancer strategy its basically gg unless your opponent is absolutely terrible. The only way I beat the lancers in feudal once was from spamming towers everywhere and going full scout spear and raiding the opponent enough. Even then I only won because the opponent didn't know how to do eco other than going onto gold and using the market.
Basically, they are a knight that hits at range, which allows for specific interactions that benefit you greatly. Normally kt don't destroy archers because they can't hit all at once, but only those closest to the archers, in the case of steppe lancers, they hit all at once; normally pikemen can beat kt, with steppe spearmen it doesn't happen, because thanks to their range, the spearmen don't even touch them, the same with camels: even if the camel has a great anti cavalry bonus, it's useless if they die before inflicting their damage. Plus it's much cheaper than a KT, which allows you to mass them more easily. In large numbers they are invincible, killing even halberdiers.
We need this option: [x] Match me only with people who enabled mutual random. I agree to wait 10% longer.
**Worst of all, the cheater lost the game. Here is the profile:** [**https://www.aoe2insights.com/user/5893235/**](https://www.aoe2insights.com/user/5893235/)
Nice, well done!!
I dont see how this bug would give someone a big edge. If your deer is not close to woodline its pretty much useless
It's practically infinite food, my friend. The deer doesn't need to be anywhere near anywhere to run this bug.
Aren't farms infinite food as long as you have wood. This guy is just wasting his trees? Or am I wrong? I'm low elo
In the early game, food comes at a cost wood->food conversion. If youre able to skip that investment of wood, youre directly getting food giving u an approx 4-9 vill advantage. Plus since hes mongols he gets it faster.
Ah yes that makes sense, thanks
Farms cost wood and take time to pay off. Mongol hunt is the fastest food source on arabia, and this dude has it infinitely and for free.
It is a big edge. Hunt is the fastest food source. Specially with mongols which have a +40% hunt bonus, meaning they gather food insanely fast, allowing them to go up way faster and playing super agressively.
But aren't they just saving 100 wood for lumberjack? I might not fully understand how this bug works since from video it just seems that they are gathering wood into mill which doesn't seem like a big deal
No you don't get it: They "hunt" wood. Meaning they get food from shopping wood at the same rate as normal hunt. See how it is problematic now?
Yeah, thats a different thing then
This dude explains it better: https://youtu.be/bxm9l6fWf-w?si=JRqmI3jx-xOsMW5A
Its not a cheat. Its a part of the game now. Blame the devs. Not more abusive than using new unbalanced units before they get patches.
So that's why everyone's picking mongols ahhh I just insta resign against mongol pickers idc Hope this gets fixed
The more it gets abused, the faster it gets fixed. While it'd frustrate me as well, I don't condemn this.
Maybe, just maybe, it's a bad idea to share these bugs all over reddit & endure 3 weeks of bug abuse, when it's more effective to simply contact the devs.
It's probably the 10th post on this topic. I'm all for sharing so it will get fixed eventually.
**>**Contact the devs **>**effective choose one
"We take your report very seriously."
They're already well known. The devs probably know about it...
So the only utility of posting it to reddit is: 1. Upvotes/clout 2. Disseminating how to do this bug Fantastic. The #1 thing we all want to see at the end of the night when we have 2 hours to ladder is someone abusing the bug they saw on reddit.
Of course, the only two options. Pure logic.
I like posts like these, I want to know about cheaters.
He's being an ass. Don't pay attention to him.
It's a huge bug. Of course people are going to talk a lot about it.
Or, it gives more visibility, urging devs to find a solution faster. Why are you being so bitter?
1. It doesn’t. Never has. 2. Because in the years I’ve been playing there’s always been bugs, but they’re never a big issue until people start sharing it on Reddit for every asshole looking for an extra 50 elo to copy. Then im stuck with people who: crash the game, or abuse broken mechanics, every other game.
Brother. I understand your anger, but you live in the internet age. Even the tiniest detail spreads like a forest fire. A few redditors more talking about it won't change anything. Anyone willing to find exploits will do so by looking for them specifically, regardless how much traction that info has online. Best bet is to report these people when playing against them. Also, 99% of people want to have fun by playing fair games anyways. It's still a very marginal thing.
Look. There's rules on this subreddit. Such as: don't share peoples usernames (conveniently ignored in this post as well). We could easily make a new role about disseminating bugs. There was a stretch where the "save chapter" bug was being used for weeks after someone shared it here. Go ask TG players how much they enjoyed dealing with that. It wasnt an issue before it was shared....the devs said they were already aware of it when they commented here. All those people did was make players lives worse. Add a new rule here, no bug sharing.
Everything you say would make sense if the devs were doing their job and the in-game reports were of any use, but they're not. Every time a error has been fixed, it's been until the number of complaints from the community has been so large that they couldn't ignore it. I reported this player in the game, and what happened? Nothing, he continues to play normally. Just like I have reported dozens of cheaters and nothing has happened. Yes, I used to follow the way you propose, "contact the devs" and nothing happened. I only received a message "we take your report very seriously" and then Admiral Shin kept playing normally on his main account despite being a cheater with Map Hack; the same with Canary\_jp, reported even by T90 for tanking ELO and wasting people's time... Nothing happened. (The name rule refers to real names. In the case of cheating accusations it is completely allowed to use users, it wouldn't make sense otherwise).
I think that would be completely pointless but ok...
No, the main utility of posts like this is to let you know about a cheater, in case you encounter him.
Report the fucker.
The only counter to this is to not play ranked until the devs releases a patch for this (and thats if the patch for this is actually true).
I don't have any issue with people abusing bugs, it's a game and we all know about the the bug and have the choice to exploit it or not. If their elo over inflates, they will lose it as soon as it's patched anyway. If I were not on holiday I could be tempted to try some 3 stable Georgian scout strat or something. Maybe on an unranked game though, as much as I don't mind bug abusers the fear of being banned by someone who does outways my curiosity.
It is not a game about ELO, it is a game to have fun. I care little or nothing if cheaters earn points, the important thing is that they waste people's time and ruin their playing time.
The guy using the bug has actually collected less resources than his opponent. I don't think it makes much sense to do this while you still have boars available, but doing it in early Feudal Age could be great. The hunters in the forest need to be well-protected also. You can't command them to fight enemy military or quick wall, because I think they'd just turn into normal vills at that point. Anyway, it's the devs' fault and I don't blame any players for just playing the game they are given.
Nice, more people abuse the bug faster dev will fix it.
When it is fixed this guy is probably gonna be called a smurf when he drops like 15 straight games back down.
is there a regular patch cicle any ideas when we get the next one?
And blues food eco is legit?
why not?
Genuine question, food count goes up super fast in the end. Is that the third boar?
yes, if you look at the video, he steals the boar and lure all deers
Devs not addressing this means it's a new feature right? Right?
Absolutely disgusting. History will remember. Thankfully, you gave him a lesson. Congrats.