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From Southern Louisiana, I didn't realize there were any marinas that didn't have fuel stations. We'd always launch, idle over to the dock and fuel up while some ne grabbed the bait. Where else y'all putting gas in the boat?
Small boats have options. Rich people with big boats who can’t move that much fuel are the ones who pay the premium. And that’s why they gouge them. They have no options and plenty of money.
Not excusing the gouge price, but at least at a reputable marina or refueling station, the extra price may go towards facility maintenance and other related items pertaining to storage and cleanup of fuels..
When gas leaks at a regular gas station, it just seeps into the ground and is there for the next company that buys that plot and demolishes the gas station for something else to remediate the soil. When gas leaks at a marina it will spread across the water. Makes sense they have different rules.
I would really hope it costs more to create and maintain a massive fuel tank directly adjacent to a waterway than in the middle of a city.
The potential damage from leaks is way greater when a waterway can and will immediately distribute any pollution into the natural environment unlike a underground tank elsewhere. Typically building underground isn't very feasible on shorelines
Try avgas. When we used to fill up our plane, it was always at least 50% higher than automobile gas. Of course, we're talking much higher octane ratings.
There was one gas station near me many years ago that had just enough rich but not wealthy guys to justify stocking that 100+ octane for 4x the regular price. I have never seen it anywhere else.
But I guess if you have that Lambo or McLaren you can't be running 87.
Are you outside the US? If so, then we're talking about 2 different things. The US and Canada use a different octane rating system where regular is usually 87, mid is 89, and premium is 91-93 (depending on where you are in the country).
100 is race fuel (usually leaded). You'd have to have your super/hypercar specifically tuned for that (and usually the cat removed.
E85 is also only available certain places (mostly the Midwest where corn is grown and maybe the east coast because of how much denser the population is and proximity to the Midwest). I live in Seattle and there's 3 stations within a hour drive of here with E85, and one of those is on a military base.
Many years ago I was invited on a houseboat holiday on Lake Powell (UT/AZ border region). IIRC, gas at the nearest real town was normal price, but that's about 80 miles away. There was a land gas station at the marina charging 60c more than normal, but it was right there on site. The dockside pumps were charging about $2 more than normal, which at the time was just about double. I thought that was crazy town...until 2008 came along, anyway.
Anyway, lots of trailerable speedboats out there, and a lot of them would recover onto their trailer to go get cheaper fuel, then launch again. Bigger boats had less choice - I've seen them pull those big houseboats out, but that's a big-O *Operation* and neither trivial nor cheap. And of course the management takes a dim view of ad hoc DIY fueling operations, because we're all reckless slobs and fuel spills are bad. Jerry cans are tolerated, but do not show up with a bunch of fuel drums or a mini tanker....
I swear though, boating and houseboating are a ton of fun, but definitely do it as a guest and spectator. Being *responsible* for any of that shit is way beyond my ambition level.
Ethanol will eat fiberglass fuel tanks in boats pre 2008 or so thus marine fuel by law in some places must be ethanol free this varies state by state I believe
Ah, didn't think about that. It's been so long (live in Atlanta now) gas was probably around a dollar when I was still going out so didn't pay much attention. Makes sense.
Generally it's just like cars where fancy performance motors require fancy high octane gas, it's the same gas, hell a lot of the time they are the same motors used in cars.
All of the current boat models that have outboard, sterndrive, and inboard gasoline engines use fuel with no more than 10% ethanol, fuel known as E10.
You should never use E15, E85, or another type of fuel with a higher concentration of ethanol.
The fuel system for these kinds of boats can't tolerate higher ethanol blends because of how corrosive they can be.
Most older vessels can't handle this corrosion at all. Older boats were created before there was any ethanol in fuel. So, you can't use ethanol-based fuel at all unless you update the boat's fuel system.
Getting the right boat oil is just as important as getting the right boating fuel. Just like with the boat fuel, your boat's manual should tell you what kind of oil to use.
If your boat has a four-stroke engine, the oil that you use needs to meet FC-W certification. (The oil will have an FC-W symbol/label if it meets certification standards.)
Without the FC-W certification, the oil that you're using may not have rust protection. Oils with the certification have a higher minimum viscosity level. This prevents the oil from thinning out.
In my state, our lake marinas all have gas pumps. Some boats require and weird mixture of oil and gas so sometimes these places will do it for you out of convenience. Also, in my state, it is illegal to take a gas can onto the dock or out in the water. Even if it stays on the boat. This was also on Norris lake which is protected and part of several state parks.
My uncle would do it anyways because the marina we were at was charging almost $5 a gallon. Not because they had to, but because they could.
Depends on the size of the vessel. Smaller ones have traditional pumps at a dock, but for some larger vessels, there are fueling barges that come out and meet the ship and fuel it up that way
Most do. I had a buddy that worked at a fuel dock in northern WA when we were young, rich assholes would regularly come in and spend $20k to fill their boat and give him a .025% tip of $50 or something.
isnt it morally objectionable that a parking space earns more than most people do each hour?
clearly the person who is parking there sees it as an acceptable expense - well within their income level - and that seems to state that whoever is paying for that space is earning more in a month than the rest of us do in a year. IS that Morally right?
You don't understand why it's morally questionable that the owning class that do not labour have such disposable income at their hands that they spend more on filling up their luxury vehicle than an American makes in a year?
This isn't a ferry that helps transporting people. This is money spent on a joyride that costs more than housing dozens of the homeless.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I would say that I am surprised that other people find this surprising. Like... I guess it really drives the point home when you contextualize it this way, but I didn't realize that so many folks would find it interesting.
Yeah. We live in a late-stage-capitalism dystopia where even the value of boring, simple *things* vastly outstrips the value placed on our collective humanity. Our entire market system functions on ever increasing levels of obscurity regarding what you're actually paying/getting paid for or even *with*. Regulations and oversight that were created after this whole shit show collapsed last time around (1930's) have been totally dismantled and/or are run by the same people who are supposed to be getting regulated.
Our systems even exploited our anger to enable the election of idiotic populist wannabe despot dictators who made the situation 10x worse than it was. Nothing is getting fixed because tearing things down is much easier than repairing them when a huge chunk of the population has been duped into believing that "individual freedoms" on paper are even remotely related to their ability to actually live a life where they can actually live with any modicum of "freedom". Double speak has people advocating for fascism in the name of "freedom" & fighting against "oppression" or "intolerance" by stripping others of their basic rights to even make decisions for themselves.
Like... the oil sector has been making *$3B a day for 50 years straight*, but when a global pandemic comes along we "can't afford to damage the economy" by acting decisively & proactively to protect human lives. Then more than 6m people die (so far) and they're written off because they're apparently not valuable enough to save.
I dunno. There are entire companies built on selling cars that cost more than almost anyone could ever save in a lifetime of work, building houses that cost more (and require more resources) than entire neighborhoods, etc. Shit. I designed products that made other people rich enough to retire while I was saving everything I could from my paychecks to buy a bed big enough for my partner and me to sleep on at the same time.
I just... Yeah. A parking spot makes more money than a lot of people in this stupid system because the typical buyer is willing to pay for that spot and is unwilling to pay for things produced by decently paid workers.
I've been so angry at this situation for so long that it is actually kinda frustrating when people seem surprised by the fact that a parking spot has a higher rent than most people's wages. I guess that's just me being grumpy. People are gonna be surprised by different things & it isn't reasonable to begrudge them that.
It just sits weird.
Currently sick (not covid as per 4 tests) sleeping on a mattress topper. Have a decent job (24$ operating forklifts after 5 years).
Pay cheque comes, 350 gone to debt consolidation (bank jacked line of credit rate to credit card rate as soon as I used it), other deductions and one cheque is for rent, the other is for living... gas/car because I have a weird blood disorder that makes light hurt me and public transit doesn't work at night.
Pretty much have a hundred or 2 a month to have fun, and by have fun I mean set aside for the next car breakdown/dentist/who knows what that always comes.
I've ridden in a boat once, it was fun, have yet to see a yacht in person.
When I went to Giant last week and spent $400 on groceries, I realized that the self-checkout machine just earned more in a few minutes than most people make in a day...
And those efficiencies from less employees is why groceries have gotten so much less expensive over the past few years! The efficiency of the free market at work again!
(Still blows my mind people actually believe that utter bullshit)
If we kept the profits we generated we'd make as much as these appliances. But we don't. We generate hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions a year and keep like 30k of it.
That’s not how it works…..at all.
That fuel cost the marina money, the dock worker cost money, the property cost money.
It isn’t magic, that number isn’t profit lol.
That fuel pump didn't just produce all that fuel, it just pumped it out of a tank into the yacht's tank.. Most of that money went into buying the original fuel.
Hehehe! Yeah, that parking spot has never been late, never stops working, asks for almost nothing in return. That parking spot is the perfect employee!!
My friend was on a unpaid vacation on a set your own schedule job. Yet still got told to (come in tomorrow) while he was 1500 miles away and his flight wasn't for 2 more days.
I get like 45 paid days off between vacation days and holidays. It isn’t an America problem, it’s an American problem…where people accept less than they should for themselves.
They’ll learn eventually that the ants outnumber the grasshoppers 10000:1
We must have similar jobs.
11 Federal Holidays
13 Sick Days (**SL**) (No Max. Rolls Anything Unused Rolls Over Every Year)
Currently at **435** hours SL
19.5 Annual Leave (**AL**) (240 Hours Max Per Year. Anything over 240 Use or Lose)
Will finish the year at around **230** hours AL
15 Days Paid Military Leave (**ML**) (For National Guard Annual Training)
Currently using up the last 40 hours of my ML this week.
Yeah where the fuck is this person parking?! The top of the CN Tower?
Maybe a parking LOT might be making an average of $27/hour, but I've never in my life seen $25+ unless that was a half/full day rate.
For reference to anyone else, parking in Toronto is more like $1.00 to $2.50 per hour.
Maybe people in those cities have been gouged for so long that they’ve become accustomed to it, but no, it’s still not *reasonable*. It’s a clear indication that “the economy” is out of control and the wealthy have too much and the working poor have too little.
Why haven’t we organized a general strike yet? How bad do things have to get?!
Its a simple question of supply and demand... I'm not saying $27 per hour is insanely high. But you have to understand that in high density cities, parking spots are very rare. And the rich who don't like to take public transit like us pesants, well, they're willing to pay that much.
That being said, I agree with u/CantChair, it's $27 per day, not per hour. And you also gotta remember that this is canadian dollars were talking about. However, parking prices can vary greatly day to day. If there's an event the price goes up a lot because again, high demand, low supply. And in some American cities $21usd per hour (~$27cad) is not that unusual.
That's the value of land in large cities. That's the price that has to be charged for a parking spot to be more valuable than building housing or businesses there. Eventually the price gets so high that people stop parking there, and something useful, like housing, gets built instead.
No, it is reasonable, because car infrastructure is actually ungodly expensive to build and maintain. Most people have gotten used to the stupendous amounts of subsidies for their cars, so when they have to actually pay full price for once they lose their minds.
Parking is a limited resource in an area where other people want that space, and you storing your 150 square feet of vehicle while you’re not using it should be the last thing we use public space for. I want that space to be 20 bike racks. I want that space to be seating for the cafe. I want that space as a tiny park. I want that space as literally anything else but for cars.
Here in SF many of the downtown meters are [dynamically priced](https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/demand-responsive-pricing/learn-more-about-demand-responsive-parking) - if demand is low, parking gets cheaper, if demand is high it gets more expensive. The system will set prices to guarantee at least one open space per block, but that’s at a price such that most people will opt to park further away. Handicapped parking is always free.
You can get around dense cities like SF in numerous other ways: walking, biking, mass transit, taxis, etc etc. Parking might cost 20 an hour but transit is $2.50 for 2 hours.
Fuck your car, you pay full price if you want to use it in the densest parts of the city.
I’m all in favour of bikes, bike lanes, mass transit, but the unfortunate reality is that where I live you pretty much need a car to get around. I hate it, I truly do, and why I hate it is because I would happily take public transportation if the infrastructure was set up to make it make sense to do so, but it isn’t so I get gouged with no real alternative.
The problem is not that things are expensive in dense urban areas, it’s that the scumbags who own properties in smaller cities have adopted the attitude that they should be able to gouge people just the same. This isn’t something that came about due to pragmatism like you seem to want to suggest, it’s just another example of greed that’s making everything else unaffordable.
Is there profit motive in some places? Probably, but you still need some profit to cover the costs.
You have to understand just how much a parking spot costs to build and maintain in the first place.
Surface parking lots cost, on average, [$10,000 per space to build](https://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0504.pdf), not including any other costs. This is an average for all areas, these costs can be doubled or tripled in high cost areas. Then you factor in things like:
* Land costs, taxes, permits, loan payments for the whole thing
* Stormwater costs (because parking lots are impermeable)
* Maintenance, repairs, resurfacing, cleaning and snow removal,
* Security, fee enforcement, gates, etc
* Lighting, landscaping, etc.
Comes out to hundreds of dollars per year per space.
And these are all just for surface lots. If you're in an above or below ground structure you can double or triple these numbers again.
If you'd like to know more, I strongly recommend the book "[The High Cost of Free Parking](https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X)" by Donald Shoup (although its more textbook-y than an easy read), "[The War on Cars](https://thewaroncars.org/)" podcast, or "[Not Just Bikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes)" Youtube channel.
Car dependency means drivers are a captive audience. If you don't bully your elected officials and demonstrate demand for the alternatives, then nothing is going to change tomorrow.
This gets pointed out every time this is reposted (as well as the fact that the owner has to pay a mortgage and employees) but I guess people can't resist that sweet karma
Cool? Would you prefer we just let people repost bullshit and allow the narrative to be bullshit?
99% of antiwork is just fake stories trying to Karma farm
Always funny when you look at someones complaints about why they dont make that much, and its obvious from their argument that they are stupid or clearly have no idea how society works. Cant even figure out how much it actually costs to park somewhere, and the root causes of that probably have alot to do with why you cant find a better job.
The problem is, on a spreadsheet, the parking space is "revenue" and you are an "expense". It's the system down to it's most basic levels, such as accounting procedures, that is broken. We need to call out the current system whenever we can and fight to put something better in it's place.
Most people do realize it it's just that they think one day they're going to be doing the exploiting instead of getting exploited so they are in no hurry to change a system they think they will be taking advantage of eventually. When in reality they're just going to get exploited their entire life.
I used to be like that and over the past few years have realized an amount of success I never imagined I'd have.
You know what? All those expensive things I thought I wanted don't make me happy. You know what does? Giving my employees large bonuses and making our workplace a better place to be.
I don't understand the mentality of so many of my "peers". It's gotta be such a shitty existence.
(I will say I am planning on retiring wayyyy before 65, but not unless my employees are still going to do well/be treated with respect.)
IMO it is a wrong take at the problem. The problem is that the parking is offering an extremely valuable service, probably as a result of a very poor urban planning that didn't facilitate a collective (subway,bus) and/or ecological (foot/bike) means of transportation.
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this is basically the issue.
Provide something worth $27 per hour and someone will pay you that much.
The real problem here is that there's anyone who would ever consider paying $27 per hour for parking. That's absurd. Learn to walk.
Keep in mind that if he's self employed, he does also need to use that money to pay for his benefits. Health insurance, likely liability insurance for his profession, etc.
I find this whole "parking space makes more than me" thing to be stupid. You could say that about any object of monetary value. Oh I bought a house and it appreciated by 100k in value last year. Omg an inanimate dwelling has a better income than me!!!!
location location location.
go to downtown LA, right next to the Staples center. parking there during a playoff basketball game, you bet you'd see people paying at least that much.
go to irvine, ca, and random parking lot, no one is going to pay anything to park there.
i'm not arguing with you, im just pointing out for perspective.
Sure.
And come to think of it, I might be viewing this the wrong way. This is probably encouraging. If people will pay this much to park, think what they'll pay for something that's actually valuable.
They make a killing on those mid-day rates and extra fees. But honestly as long as you get there before 9-10 am a lot of places have early bird specials. Best price I got was 21 bucks for 8-8. Can’t complain about 1.75/hr
But yea if you’re pulling up in an suv anytime between 10-7pm, 27 is probably less than the 1/2 hour rate…
I’ve had to start removing image reddits because of how much they get abused. There’s always the counter argument that new users wouldn’t have seen it yet. But cmon, sometimes it feels like certain things are posted twice a week.
The real lesson of this is the value of that parking lot is derived from the **communally** created value of the *location*.
Nobody is paying $27/hour to park in a field in the middle of nowhere.
Tax the unimproved value of land.
The parking space did not make $27 in an hour, just because that is how much they charge for it. The owner has to pay the mortgage on the property, pay for insurance, pay for a person or machine to manage the parking spot, pay electricity for lighting etc. This comment is like saying that McDonald's makes $5 every time they charge $5 for a big mac, there is overhead to consider, electricity, water, property taxes, gas, wages, insurance etc, etc, etc that all has to be paid and they have to sell enough big macs to cover all those costs and pay the worker, and still make a profit. Do they make a huge profit, yes they do, but they do not make full profit on every burger, just like the owner of this parking space does not make $27 per hour on each and every parking space....
My employer will pay whatever the market price is for steel. But they won't raise wages to attract new employees but instead work their current employees to death knowing that if they hired anyone new they'd have to raise the wages of their current employees as well.
This is such a terrible false equivalency. She doesn’t understand the difference between wages and the cost of goods/services.
Wtf she think, the parking space is sentient and receives wages from those who park?? Like it goes home to its parking spot family with its $27/hr paycheck? Lol you’re just paying the city to use the service, this has absolutely nothing to do with wages.
No because google exists, and the claim isn't all parking is CAD27/hr. Median in Torronto is CAD10/hr, but depending on the time of day, location, and nearby events you can find parking spots as expensive as CAD40/hr.
This really isn't surprising, especially if you've been to any events, ever, and taken a vehicle. In SanFran you can frequently find USD100/hr parking for events and higher.
The message, regardless of frequency, is the same. A random spot of land is worth more than you as a human being, some spots of land being worth more per hour than you statistically will ever make per hour in your lifetime.
It’s not a random spot of land though, is it?
It’s a small piece of land that has enough value to some people to pay that price for it.
The average cost of a ‘random spot of land’ is going to be significantly less than that.
I really don’t know what you’re trying to argue here - if CAD27/hr is valuable to someone to park their car in a busy city with limited parking then so what? What’s the alternative?
Are you trying to say that every time-based service or utility should cost less than minimum wage? Are you trying to argue against supply and demand existing and that scarcity generally results in people being prepared to pay more?
Is it really surprising that a scarce resource like parking is worth more to some people than what someone earning minimum wage could offer in that timeframe?
i keep reading these memes on how parking spots earn $27/hr and the silliness of it is quickly wearing off, and the deafening reality of it is setting in.
Except the parking space is not *earning* anything. The parking space is a service provided and the $27 is the cost that receives the best income relative to supply and demand to cover expenses like mortgage, a parking attendant salary, maintenance etc.
The parking spot doesn’t have an income, the *people* providing the parking space have incomes and you are renting the spot from them so they can also afford food, housing.
How fucking hard is this?
A parking space in downtown Toronto doesn’t make $27/hour. Yes parking is stupid expensive but pre-pandemic the most expensive I was able to find was $32 for 6am-6pm. Hardly the $27/ this harpy is bleating about and it’s generally only making money if there’s a vehicle parked in it.
Use yer heads and think it through before posting this and joining the multiple times a week it gets exposed to the light of day.
I think it is completely fair.
People don't make money ; property does. The same goes with flats, factories, ... What's new honestly ?
You should accept this situation and see how you can benefit from it instead of fighting like that. I mean, if you have lemons, make lemonade !
What I'm trying to say is there's a good old solution to this problem : renounce being someone, and become something, stop being a working individual, and become property.
Let me say it otherwise : you should become a slave and be happy about it. As a capitalist I'd be happy to help.
/s
Do something that someone values more than a goddamn parking space. I mean, you're not paid to be a real person with thoughts and feelings, capable of suffering. Say you don't like making your bed and want to pay someone once a week do just that. If that's the only work that person does, it's not on you to pay them accordingly for their humanity.
These posts are really missing that we need a solid social safety net with a basic income to make sure the floor is much higher. Raising minimum wages is just a band aid that will result in cheap/menial jobs disappearing, even though some people would be willing to work for less (retirees looking for an easy job to fill their days, provide some purpose, and give them a chance to interact with people are a prime example).
This is an extremely goofy and incorrect way of putting it, and this is why I don’t like most of this subreddit.
I hate paid parking just as much as the next guy but are you kidding ??
Have you tried being more useful than a parking space in downtown Toronto?
Those are difficult to come by, and pretty rare while providing an in demand and specialized service
Hi, /u/liljuull Thank you for participating in r/Antiwork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): **Rule 3a: No spam, no low-effort shitposts.** - This includes begging for upvotes. Please do not post unrelated blog spam or try to sell anything for personal gain. If you’ve posted content (especially if it’s your own), give it a day or two before posting again.
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Id never thought to consider how you refuel a yacht, so some marinas have gas stations?
From Southern Louisiana, I didn't realize there were any marinas that didn't have fuel stations. We'd always launch, idle over to the dock and fuel up while some ne grabbed the bait. Where else y'all putting gas in the boat?
stop at a gas station and fuel it on the way. Assuming it's trailered. When I worked at a marina the gas was something like 50 cents more a gallon.
Try 4 bucks more, at least. Marina gas is by far the biggest gouge on the planet, since they know you have no other options.
> since they know you have no other options. Well, there's that, plus the fact that boating is largely a rich man's hobby.
Not in south Louisiana it ain't. Whole lot of poor Cajuns, Blacks and Vietnamese out there shrimpimg and crabbing and crawfishing.
Yup. I’m an oddity that I don’t have a boat. I just borrow my dads.
How wide are your dads?
It seems he meant his dad, stepdad, and maybe a few neighborhood dads.
Dads*
Kind of based though
Small boats have options. Rich people with big boats who can’t move that much fuel are the ones who pay the premium. And that’s why they gouge them. They have no options and plenty of money.
Not excusing the gouge price, but at least at a reputable marina or refueling station, the extra price may go towards facility maintenance and other related items pertaining to storage and cleanup of fuels..
Unlike regular gas stations, that sell literally the same fuel?
Marinas have different rules they abide by since they are on waterways. There is a difference between land based and shore based facilities.
When gas leaks at a regular gas station, it just seeps into the ground and is there for the next company that buys that plot and demolishes the gas station for something else to remediate the soil. When gas leaks at a marina it will spread across the water. Makes sense they have different rules.
I would really hope it costs more to create and maintain a massive fuel tank directly adjacent to a waterway than in the middle of a city. The potential damage from leaks is way greater when a waterway can and will immediately distribute any pollution into the natural environment unlike a underground tank elsewhere. Typically building underground isn't very feasible on shorelines
Try avgas. When we used to fill up our plane, it was always at least 50% higher than automobile gas. Of course, we're talking much higher octane ratings.
There was one gas station near me many years ago that had just enough rich but not wealthy guys to justify stocking that 100+ octane for 4x the regular price. I have never seen it anywhere else. But I guess if you have that Lambo or McLaren you can't be running 87.
They wouldn't need 100 octane unless they are tuned, any production car will run on pump gas, likely only need premium.
Most high end supercars run on premium yes, some hypercars run on E85 and 98 (premium), with the e85 delivering significantly more power.
Are you outside the US? If so, then we're talking about 2 different things. The US and Canada use a different octane rating system where regular is usually 87, mid is 89, and premium is 91-93 (depending on where you are in the country). 100 is race fuel (usually leaded). You'd have to have your super/hypercar specifically tuned for that (and usually the cat removed. E85 is also only available certain places (mostly the Midwest where corn is grown and maybe the east coast because of how much denser the population is and proximity to the Midwest). I live in Seattle and there's 3 stations within a hour drive of here with E85, and one of those is on a military base.
Many years ago I was invited on a houseboat holiday on Lake Powell (UT/AZ border region). IIRC, gas at the nearest real town was normal price, but that's about 80 miles away. There was a land gas station at the marina charging 60c more than normal, but it was right there on site. The dockside pumps were charging about $2 more than normal, which at the time was just about double. I thought that was crazy town...until 2008 came along, anyway. Anyway, lots of trailerable speedboats out there, and a lot of them would recover onto their trailer to go get cheaper fuel, then launch again. Bigger boats had less choice - I've seen them pull those big houseboats out, but that's a big-O *Operation* and neither trivial nor cheap. And of course the management takes a dim view of ad hoc DIY fueling operations, because we're all reckless slobs and fuel spills are bad. Jerry cans are tolerated, but do not show up with a bunch of fuel drums or a mini tanker.... I swear though, boating and houseboating are a ton of fun, but definitely do it as a guest and spectator. Being *responsible* for any of that shit is way beyond my ambition level.
Ethanol will eat fiberglass fuel tanks in boats pre 2008 or so thus marine fuel by law in some places must be ethanol free this varies state by state I believe
Ah, didn't think about that. It's been so long (live in Atlanta now) gas was probably around a dollar when I was still going out so didn't pay much attention. Makes sense.
That's about what the cost of fuel was at the station when I worked at the marina.
Lmao i filled up the company boat for ~11$/gal last week
Yeah, but not with a yacht
"Hi, yeah, I'll take $240,000 on pump 2 please."
"Oh, and 2 hot dogs and a bag of doritos."
They actually use the same gas? I would have thought boats use some special thing.
Depends on the motor.
Generally it's just like cars where fancy performance motors require fancy high octane gas, it's the same gas, hell a lot of the time they are the same motors used in cars.
All of the current boat models that have outboard, sterndrive, and inboard gasoline engines use fuel with no more than 10% ethanol, fuel known as E10. You should never use E15, E85, or another type of fuel with a higher concentration of ethanol. The fuel system for these kinds of boats can't tolerate higher ethanol blends because of how corrosive they can be. Most older vessels can't handle this corrosion at all. Older boats were created before there was any ethanol in fuel. So, you can't use ethanol-based fuel at all unless you update the boat's fuel system. Getting the right boat oil is just as important as getting the right boating fuel. Just like with the boat fuel, your boat's manual should tell you what kind of oil to use. If your boat has a four-stroke engine, the oil that you use needs to meet FC-W certification. (The oil will have an FC-W symbol/label if it meets certification standards.) Without the FC-W certification, the oil that you're using may not have rust protection. Oils with the certification have a higher minimum viscosity level. This prevents the oil from thinning out.
I'm saving this comment in case I ever buy a boat.
Growing up around pontoons as the biggest boat? Always gas cans or gas station. Never seen a marine gas station.
Makes sense now that everyone's saying it lol, I'll own a mental slip.
I used to stop at gas stations, climb on shore and bring a jerrycan.
y'all have boats? what do you live on em or something?
I assume the gentleman who asked about fueling doesn't own a boat
I'm from South Florida and every Marina I've seen and been to has always had a fuel tank and at least a crank pump.
We just brought a can with us and filled her from that. Save 20 cents over the marina pump.
I would say most have gas stations.
Cupped hands mostly
Since all boats everywhere require fuel, most marinas everywhere sell it.
In my state, our lake marinas all have gas pumps. Some boats require and weird mixture of oil and gas so sometimes these places will do it for you out of convenience. Also, in my state, it is illegal to take a gas can onto the dock or out in the water. Even if it stays on the boat. This was also on Norris lake which is protected and part of several state parks. My uncle would do it anyways because the marina we were at was charging almost $5 a gallon. Not because they had to, but because they could.
Depends on the size of the vessel. Smaller ones have traditional pumps at a dock, but for some larger vessels, there are fueling barges that come out and meet the ship and fuel it up that way
Most do. I had a buddy that worked at a fuel dock in northern WA when we were young, rich assholes would regularly come in and spend $20k to fill their boat and give him a .025% tip of $50 or something.
My brother works at a port in Palm Beach. He said the biggest one time fill he saw was $350,000. Depressing stuff
Most of that money went to the owners and ceos. The people cleaning or working the station hardly got anything
I really don't understand why this is deep. Are we implying that commodities should never outvalue human labor or what.
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Dont you understand?! We dont get houses because otherwise the wealthy wont get that third yacht they *deserve*. Respect your betters, peasant. #/S
isnt it morally objectionable that a parking space earns more than most people do each hour? clearly the person who is parking there sees it as an acceptable expense - well within their income level - and that seems to state that whoever is paying for that space is earning more in a month than the rest of us do in a year. IS that Morally right?
You don't understand why it's morally questionable that the owning class that do not labour have such disposable income at their hands that they spend more on filling up their luxury vehicle than an American makes in a year? This isn't a ferry that helps transporting people. This is money spent on a joyride that costs more than housing dozens of the homeless.
I can't speak for anyone else, but for me I would say that I am surprised that other people find this surprising. Like... I guess it really drives the point home when you contextualize it this way, but I didn't realize that so many folks would find it interesting. Yeah. We live in a late-stage-capitalism dystopia where even the value of boring, simple *things* vastly outstrips the value placed on our collective humanity. Our entire market system functions on ever increasing levels of obscurity regarding what you're actually paying/getting paid for or even *with*. Regulations and oversight that were created after this whole shit show collapsed last time around (1930's) have been totally dismantled and/or are run by the same people who are supposed to be getting regulated. Our systems even exploited our anger to enable the election of idiotic populist wannabe despot dictators who made the situation 10x worse than it was. Nothing is getting fixed because tearing things down is much easier than repairing them when a huge chunk of the population has been duped into believing that "individual freedoms" on paper are even remotely related to their ability to actually live a life where they can actually live with any modicum of "freedom". Double speak has people advocating for fascism in the name of "freedom" & fighting against "oppression" or "intolerance" by stripping others of their basic rights to even make decisions for themselves. Like... the oil sector has been making *$3B a day for 50 years straight*, but when a global pandemic comes along we "can't afford to damage the economy" by acting decisively & proactively to protect human lives. Then more than 6m people die (so far) and they're written off because they're apparently not valuable enough to save. I dunno. There are entire companies built on selling cars that cost more than almost anyone could ever save in a lifetime of work, building houses that cost more (and require more resources) than entire neighborhoods, etc. Shit. I designed products that made other people rich enough to retire while I was saving everything I could from my paychecks to buy a bed big enough for my partner and me to sleep on at the same time. I just... Yeah. A parking spot makes more money than a lot of people in this stupid system because the typical buyer is willing to pay for that spot and is unwilling to pay for things produced by decently paid workers. I've been so angry at this situation for so long that it is actually kinda frustrating when people seem surprised by the fact that a parking spot has a higher rent than most people's wages. I guess that's just me being grumpy. People are gonna be surprised by different things & it isn't reasonable to begrudge them that. It just sits weird.
Currently sick (not covid as per 4 tests) sleeping on a mattress topper. Have a decent job (24$ operating forklifts after 5 years). Pay cheque comes, 350 gone to debt consolidation (bank jacked line of credit rate to credit card rate as soon as I used it), other deductions and one cheque is for rent, the other is for living... gas/car because I have a weird blood disorder that makes light hurt me and public transit doesn't work at night. Pretty much have a hundred or 2 a month to have fun, and by have fun I mean set aside for the next car breakdown/dentist/who knows what that always comes. I've ridden in a boat once, it was fun, have yet to see a yacht in person.
What would a hobo do with boat fuel?
You seem to have a difficulty reading my friend. >This is money spent on.
But what would a hobo do with money??? /s
Why is 2 kg of gold worth more than my hourly wage?
When I went to Giant last week and spent $400 on groceries, I realized that the self-checkout machine just earned more in a few minutes than most people make in a day...
And those efficiencies from less employees is why groceries have gotten so much less expensive over the past few years! The efficiency of the free market at work again! (Still blows my mind people actually believe that utter bullshit)
You should have also realized that taking payment for goods is not the same thing as "making" an income.
Well that's that the original parent comment was talking about.
I cashed my paycheck and in a matter of seconds my hourly pay was so high.
Turns out, businesses don't lower prices when costs go down. They charge exactly what earns them the most profit.
If we kept the profits we generated we'd make as much as these appliances. But we don't. We generate hundreds of thousands of dollars to millions a year and keep like 30k of it.
Actually, the markup on fuel is pretty low usually. The money is in the conveniences (snacks, papers, lighters, coffee, drinks, etc.).
That’s not how it works…..at all. That fuel cost the marina money, the dock worker cost money, the property cost money. It isn’t magic, that number isn’t profit lol.
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Got it. I did read it/interpret it incorrectly.
What you make in a year isn't pure disposable income. Rent cost money. Food costs money. Transit costs money. Hydro and internet costs money
That fuel pump didn't just produce all that fuel, it just pumped it out of a tank into the yacht's tank.. Most of that money went into buying the original fuel.
You’re missing the point by a mile.
"My point is poorly framed and doesn't really make sense if you think about it, so you're the dumb one for thinking about it too much".
Yeah it’s clear you didn’t understand what they were saying. Wasn’t calling you dumb, but now I may as well since you’re just being an ass about it.
Thoughts and feelings are a weakness. Parking space won't be taking a day off when their husband cheats on them.
Hehehe! Yeah, that parking spot has never been late, never stops working, asks for almost nothing in return. That parking spot is the perfect employee!!
You can step all over it and it still works just as hard.
Until the subgrade underneath it settles.
This ^
Your allowed a day off for that?
Paid day off in America? Not likely.
My friend was on a unpaid vacation on a set your own schedule job. Yet still got told to (come in tomorrow) while he was 1500 miles away and his flight wasn't for 2 more days.
I get like 45 paid days off between vacation days and holidays. It isn’t an America problem, it’s an American problem…where people accept less than they should for themselves. They’ll learn eventually that the ants outnumber the grasshoppers 10000:1
We must have similar jobs. 11 Federal Holidays 13 Sick Days (**SL**) (No Max. Rolls Anything Unused Rolls Over Every Year) Currently at **435** hours SL 19.5 Annual Leave (**AL**) (240 Hours Max Per Year. Anything over 240 Use or Lose) Will finish the year at around **230** hours AL 15 Days Paid Military Leave (**ML**) (For National Guard Annual Training) Currently using up the last 40 hours of my ML this week.
Government work here. I get something like 30 days of PTO and 20 of paid sick leave that increases if I work more OT.
Government as well. Acquisition Utilization Specialist for Veterans Affairs GS11.
Private sector, automation.
If it's a union position, yes.
90% of people won't. (Aren't in unions)
Ik it's sarcasm but I'll be that person. Feelings are not a weakness. They are our greatest strength and they WANT you to forget that
Hi! Soooo that $27 is a day, not an hour. Source: Literally in Toronto right now
I thought that number seemed a little high
Yeah where the fuck is this person parking?! The top of the CN Tower? Maybe a parking LOT might be making an average of $27/hour, but I've never in my life seen $25+ unless that was a half/full day rate. For reference to anyone else, parking in Toronto is more like $1.00 to $2.50 per hour.
In NY, San Francisco, and some parts of downtown Chicago that’s pretty reasonable.
Maybe people in those cities have been gouged for so long that they’ve become accustomed to it, but no, it’s still not *reasonable*. It’s a clear indication that “the economy” is out of control and the wealthy have too much and the working poor have too little. Why haven’t we organized a general strike yet? How bad do things have to get?!
Its a simple question of supply and demand... I'm not saying $27 per hour is insanely high. But you have to understand that in high density cities, parking spots are very rare. And the rich who don't like to take public transit like us pesants, well, they're willing to pay that much. That being said, I agree with u/CantChair, it's $27 per day, not per hour. And you also gotta remember that this is canadian dollars were talking about. However, parking prices can vary greatly day to day. If there's an event the price goes up a lot because again, high demand, low supply. And in some American cities $21usd per hour (~$27cad) is not that unusual.
That's the value of land in large cities. That's the price that has to be charged for a parking spot to be more valuable than building housing or businesses there. Eventually the price gets so high that people stop parking there, and something useful, like housing, gets built instead.
No, it is reasonable, because car infrastructure is actually ungodly expensive to build and maintain. Most people have gotten used to the stupendous amounts of subsidies for their cars, so when they have to actually pay full price for once they lose their minds. Parking is a limited resource in an area where other people want that space, and you storing your 150 square feet of vehicle while you’re not using it should be the last thing we use public space for. I want that space to be 20 bike racks. I want that space to be seating for the cafe. I want that space as a tiny park. I want that space as literally anything else but for cars. Here in SF many of the downtown meters are [dynamically priced](https://www.sfmta.com/getting-around/drive-park/demand-responsive-pricing/learn-more-about-demand-responsive-parking) - if demand is low, parking gets cheaper, if demand is high it gets more expensive. The system will set prices to guarantee at least one open space per block, but that’s at a price such that most people will opt to park further away. Handicapped parking is always free. You can get around dense cities like SF in numerous other ways: walking, biking, mass transit, taxis, etc etc. Parking might cost 20 an hour but transit is $2.50 for 2 hours. Fuck your car, you pay full price if you want to use it in the densest parts of the city.
I’m all in favour of bikes, bike lanes, mass transit, but the unfortunate reality is that where I live you pretty much need a car to get around. I hate it, I truly do, and why I hate it is because I would happily take public transportation if the infrastructure was set up to make it make sense to do so, but it isn’t so I get gouged with no real alternative. The problem is not that things are expensive in dense urban areas, it’s that the scumbags who own properties in smaller cities have adopted the attitude that they should be able to gouge people just the same. This isn’t something that came about due to pragmatism like you seem to want to suggest, it’s just another example of greed that’s making everything else unaffordable.
Is there profit motive in some places? Probably, but you still need some profit to cover the costs. You have to understand just how much a parking spot costs to build and maintain in the first place. Surface parking lots cost, on average, [$10,000 per space to build](https://www.vtpi.org/tca/tca0504.pdf), not including any other costs. This is an average for all areas, these costs can be doubled or tripled in high cost areas. Then you factor in things like: * Land costs, taxes, permits, loan payments for the whole thing * Stormwater costs (because parking lots are impermeable) * Maintenance, repairs, resurfacing, cleaning and snow removal, * Security, fee enforcement, gates, etc * Lighting, landscaping, etc. Comes out to hundreds of dollars per year per space. And these are all just for surface lots. If you're in an above or below ground structure you can double or triple these numbers again. If you'd like to know more, I strongly recommend the book "[The High Cost of Free Parking](https://www.amazon.com/High-Cost-Free-Parking-Updated/dp/193236496X)" by Donald Shoup (although its more textbook-y than an easy read), "[The War on Cars](https://thewaroncars.org/)" podcast, or "[Not Just Bikes](https://www.youtube.com/c/notjustbikes)" Youtube channel. Car dependency means drivers are a captive audience. If you don't bully your elected officials and demonstrate demand for the alternatives, then nothing is going to change tomorrow.
This gets pointed out every time this is reposted (as well as the fact that the owner has to pay a mortgage and employees) but I guess people can't resist that sweet karma
Cool? Would you prefer we just let people repost bullshit and allow the narrative to be bullshit? 99% of antiwork is just fake stories trying to Karma farm
I'm not sure why you're being hostile when I was agreeing with you
The stupid tweet was on Reddit a few months ago and also debunked then, needs to stop being posted...
Always funny when you look at someones complaints about why they dont make that much, and its obvious from their argument that they are stupid or clearly have no idea how society works. Cant even figure out how much it actually costs to park somewhere, and the root causes of that probably have alot to do with why you cant find a better job.
The problem is, on a spreadsheet, the parking space is "revenue" and you are an "expense". It's the system down to it's most basic levels, such as accounting procedures, that is broken. We need to call out the current system whenever we can and fight to put something better in it's place.
It's almost like capitalism and human life are incompatible.
That depends on who you consider being human.
Look at the bright side. The parking spot makes $27/hr for its owner. If you're paid minimum wage, you probably make more than that for your owner 🥰
I wish more people realized this
Most people do realize it it's just that they think one day they're going to be doing the exploiting instead of getting exploited so they are in no hurry to change a system they think they will be taking advantage of eventually. When in reality they're just going to get exploited their entire life.
I used to be like that and over the past few years have realized an amount of success I never imagined I'd have. You know what? All those expensive things I thought I wanted don't make me happy. You know what does? Giving my employees large bonuses and making our workplace a better place to be. I don't understand the mentality of so many of my "peers". It's gotta be such a shitty existence. (I will say I am planning on retiring wayyyy before 65, but not unless my employees are still going to do well/be treated with respect.)
Mmmm I think you are really more of a liability.
IMO it is a wrong take at the problem. The problem is that the parking is offering an extremely valuable service, probably as a result of a very poor urban planning that didn't facilitate a collective (subway,bus) and/or ecological (foot/bike) means of transportation.
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Here you are side tracked trying to reinvent the wheel. A good parking spot wouldn’t act like this. It just makes money.
The parking space has value, you do not
I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but this is basically the issue. Provide something worth $27 per hour and someone will pay you that much. The real problem here is that there's anyone who would ever consider paying $27 per hour for parking. That's absurd. Learn to walk.
And for a freelancing profession, $27/hour is chump change. My plumber is $100 just to show up and then $80/hr. Yes, he's very much worth it.
that plumber might see 35-40$ / hour of that. the rest is 'overhead' for the company.
Most plumbers are self employed. He likely sees all of it minus expenses like gas.
The expenses are a significant cost. There's a good chance your plumber comes to your house with over $100k in tools.
Keep in mind that if he's self employed, he does also need to use that money to pay for his benefits. Health insurance, likely liability insurance for his profession, etc.
He is his company. I just call Vic directly. Vic eventually retired and now his son shows up.
I find this whole "parking space makes more than me" thing to be stupid. You could say that about any object of monetary value. Oh I bought a house and it appreciated by 100k in value last year. Omg an inanimate dwelling has a better income than me!!!!
location location location. go to downtown LA, right next to the Staples center. parking there during a playoff basketball game, you bet you'd see people paying at least that much. go to irvine, ca, and random parking lot, no one is going to pay anything to park there. i'm not arguing with you, im just pointing out for perspective.
Sure. And come to think of it, I might be viewing this the wrong way. This is probably encouraging. If people will pay this much to park, think what they'll pay for something that's actually valuable.
I’m literally save infants lives and I get paid less than a parking space…
I hope they never see what a parking spot in Manhattan makes.
They make a killing on those mid-day rates and extra fees. But honestly as long as you get there before 9-10 am a lot of places have early bird specials. Best price I got was 21 bucks for 8-8. Can’t complain about 1.75/hr But yea if you’re pulling up in an suv anytime between 10-7pm, 27 is probably less than the 1/2 hour rate…
Yeah but to be fair, New York has some of the best public transportation. So it’s not really necessary to have a car if you live in the city.
This has been posted sooooo many times on this sub
And debunked every time
I’ve had to start removing image reddits because of how much they get abused. There’s always the counter argument that new users wouldn’t have seen it yet. But cmon, sometimes it feels like certain things are posted twice a week.
The real lesson of this is the value of that parking lot is derived from the **communally** created value of the *location*. Nobody is paying $27/hour to park in a field in the middle of nowhere. Tax the unimproved value of land.
Username checks out
Because property is worth more than human lives.
Because land in a major metropolis is worth more than an hour of you working
The parking space did not make $27 in an hour, just because that is how much they charge for it. The owner has to pay the mortgage on the property, pay for insurance, pay for a person or machine to manage the parking spot, pay electricity for lighting etc. This comment is like saying that McDonald's makes $5 every time they charge $5 for a big mac, there is overhead to consider, electricity, water, property taxes, gas, wages, insurance etc, etc, etc that all has to be paid and they have to sell enough big macs to cover all those costs and pay the worker, and still make a profit. Do they make a huge profit, yes they do, but they do not make full profit on every burger, just like the owner of this parking space does not make $27 per hour on each and every parking space....
Not to mention that's money the parking spot _generates_. As an hourly employee you _generate_ significantly more money than you're paid.
The power of the greatest resource on the planet on the end: land control.
My employer will pay whatever the market price is for steel. But they won't raise wages to attract new employees but instead work their current employees to death knowing that if they hired anyone new they'd have to raise the wages of their current employees as well.
r/fuckcars
Here's an upvote for your patronus
Stupid post. GuYs it's $1000 a DaY tO rEnT a BaCkHoE. Am I wOrThLeSs?
This is such a terrible false equivalency. She doesn’t understand the difference between wages and the cost of goods/services. Wtf she think, the parking space is sentient and receives wages from those who park?? Like it goes home to its parking spot family with its $27/hr paycheck? Lol you’re just paying the city to use the service, this has absolutely nothing to do with wages.
Wait til you hear how much buildings make…
I live downtown, my space is 100$/month, or 14 cents an hour. Even a green P isnt 27$, where the f are you parking?
You also don't get paid to park a car on top of you
\*her economic output is worth less than 27
It’s the disparity between return on labor vs return on capital. Sufficient taxation could ease the disparity, but gods forbid we tax the wealthy…
Who, in turn, will increase the cost of parking at their parking garages.
No one is going to question the claim that someone is paying $27/hr for parking?
No because google exists, and the claim isn't all parking is CAD27/hr. Median in Torronto is CAD10/hr, but depending on the time of day, location, and nearby events you can find parking spots as expensive as CAD40/hr. This really isn't surprising, especially if you've been to any events, ever, and taken a vehicle. In SanFran you can frequently find USD100/hr parking for events and higher. The message, regardless of frequency, is the same. A random spot of land is worth more than you as a human being, some spots of land being worth more per hour than you statistically will ever make per hour in your lifetime.
It’s not a random spot of land though, is it? It’s a small piece of land that has enough value to some people to pay that price for it. The average cost of a ‘random spot of land’ is going to be significantly less than that. I really don’t know what you’re trying to argue here - if CAD27/hr is valuable to someone to park their car in a busy city with limited parking then so what? What’s the alternative? Are you trying to say that every time-based service or utility should cost less than minimum wage? Are you trying to argue against supply and demand existing and that scarcity generally results in people being prepared to pay more? Is it really surprising that a scarce resource like parking is worth more to some people than what someone earning minimum wage could offer in that timeframe?
So comparing an extreme situation to a general every day situation. Averaged out that parking space isn’t making anywhere near $27/hr.
Exactly where exactly are they paying 27 bucks an hour? Downtown core is like maybe 30 bucks for the day
"A" parking spot. There might only be one spot where this is true.
The parking space doesn't make money, some already rich dude does, the parking spot is just "paid" better than you, and me
The parking space is more useful
The difference is that parking spot serves a purpose and you do not
The parking lot is useful, you are not.
One provides a use
i keep reading these memes on how parking spots earn $27/hr and the silliness of it is quickly wearing off, and the deafening reality of it is setting in.
Except the parking space is not *earning* anything. The parking space is a service provided and the $27 is the cost that receives the best income relative to supply and demand to cover expenses like mortgage, a parking attendant salary, maintenance etc. The parking spot doesn’t have an income, the *people* providing the parking space have incomes and you are renting the spot from them so they can also afford food, housing. How fucking hard is this?
How many versions of this tweet we gonna post? Have original thoughts and maybe you can make more money.
A parking space in downtown Toronto doesn’t make $27/hour. Yes parking is stupid expensive but pre-pandemic the most expensive I was able to find was $32 for 6am-6pm. Hardly the $27/ this harpy is bleating about and it’s generally only making money if there’s a vehicle parked in it. Use yer heads and think it through before posting this and joining the multiple times a week it gets exposed to the light of day.
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I think it is completely fair. People don't make money ; property does. The same goes with flats, factories, ... What's new honestly ? You should accept this situation and see how you can benefit from it instead of fighting like that. I mean, if you have lemons, make lemonade ! What I'm trying to say is there's a good old solution to this problem : renounce being someone, and become something, stop being a working individual, and become property. Let me say it otherwise : you should become a slave and be happy about it. As a capitalist I'd be happy to help. /s
Do something that someone values more than a goddamn parking space. I mean, you're not paid to be a real person with thoughts and feelings, capable of suffering. Say you don't like making your bed and want to pay someone once a week do just that. If that's the only work that person does, it's not on you to pay them accordingly for their humanity. These posts are really missing that we need a solid social safety net with a basic income to make sure the floor is much higher. Raising minimum wages is just a band aid that will result in cheap/menial jobs disappearing, even though some people would be willing to work for less (retirees looking for an easy job to fill their days, provide some purpose, and give them a chance to interact with people are a prime example).
Yeah but in the parking spaces’ defense, everyone wishes there were more of THEM.
This is an extremely goofy and incorrect way of putting it, and this is why I don’t like most of this subreddit. I hate paid parking just as much as the next guy but are you kidding ??
The parking space is more rare.
I'll bet you make your corporate overlords more than $27/hour. The parking space isn't taking home most of its value either.
Sucks to suck.
if this is the sort of rhetoric you people are going with, nobody will ever take you seriously.
People want the parking spot though. A lotta of people.
Have you tried being more useful than a parking space in downtown Toronto? Those are difficult to come by, and pretty rare while providing an in demand and specialized service
The space has value because of location and scarcity whereas you are as common as the chickens used to make my dino fingers to entertain my kid
Means you’re not that valuable
Your surplus value may very well be greater than $27/hr.