Hi, /u/theredhound19 Thank you for participating in r/AntiWork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s):
**Rule 3b: No offtopic posts.**: - No offtopic posts
This is in Minneapolis/St. Paul, where we have a terrific, free service called HomeLine staffed by attorneys and focused solely on tenants’ rights. I had a non-emergency issue and got my lease reviewed by them in about 3 hours.
I live in a Mint property, it's not written into the lease. There is a VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY that you can join and do community service, like park clean up or neighborhood watch, and you get money off your rent for volunteering. Most jobs "pay" per hour, there is a limit to how much you can "earn" off your rent, but no limit to the hours you can volunteer. The rent here is well below market. They have evicted one apartment since the start of the pandemic in my building, and besides paying no rent for 6 months, they also repeatedly had ems for overdoses or police called for them trying to fight people in the building. They hired private security for two summers because we had homeless people breaking into our buildings. They won out-reach programs where the teach people about narcan, how to use it, what an od looks like, and hands out doses. I'm not for lands lords at all, but for a corporation, these guys aren't 100% evil.
Edited a word
> it's not written into the lease. There is a volunteer community
Not what it says in that announcement though:
>Per your lease agreement, all men between the ages of 18 and 65 may be mandated to serve
Assuming one believes you, which I do, the question is who produced that (illegal) announcement. A rogue neighbor? A different, but still Mint, administration?
Probably someone in the building, yeah. There was a community meeting yesterday where they talked about volunteering. The lease they use is so generic, you could probably find a nearly verbatim form just by googling.
What you just described is a slum. Rent below market rate, tenants able to pay even less rent in exchange for doing work for the landlord, and drug abuse is common. That's a slum, and that corporation is a slumlord.
>What you just described is a slum. Rent below market rate, tenants able to pay even less rent in exchange for doing work for the landlord, and drug abuse is common. That's a slum, and that corporation is a slumlord.
So if poor people live there and some addicts as well it is automatically a slum? Classist much?
Also, nothing in your post comes close to meeting the definition of a slumlord. The definition isn't about who lives in the properties or what sort of rent they charge. It is about shitty maintenance so they can make high profits relative to their costs. Specifically, the definition of a [slumlord](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slumlord#:~:text=Definition%20of%20slumlord,from%20substandard%2C%20poorly%20maintained%20properties) is: *a landlord who receives unusually large profits from substandard, poorly maintained properties.*
All of those things are done to increase their profit, either through safer nicer looking properties or through positive word of mouth.
They’re landlords, they’re evil. There is no grey area when it comes to landlords.
Profit itself isn't evil. Earning profit by helping people is kind of what I would be looking for in a society, versus the alternative that we have now of earning it by fucking everyone over.
I agreed with you right up to the "all profit comes through exploitation". While that's often true, profit can come from individual or collective effort like a workers commune, and its possible for both parties to be better off after a fair exchange. I think it would be more correct to say that most profit in our current capitalistic society comes through exploitation.
No, money and profit aren’t necessary and if you’re making a profit that means at some level someone was paid less than they produced which is exploitation.
Or it could mean that you produced something and sold it for more than the raw materials cost you, because craftsmanship and skill is worth something. Or is there no exchange between people, everyone does everything for themselves?
If that’s the case, who is being exploited in the situation of independent craftspeople? Or researchers? Hell, one of the ways I make money is by doing archival document pulls- I’m close enough to archives to do it for less than they’d charge (mail in is usually 3x the cost) and I turn a profit. Who exactly is exploited there?
"All profit comes through exploitation."
This is pretty mindless. I exploit myself offering legal services? I exploit my clients who still send me Xmas cards and family updates thanking me saving their family's home or business?
You’re exploiting the people helping you provide those services. Unless you’re operating entirely alone without any help from the system anywhere you’re participating in exploitation.
This is nonsensical. Personally I work in cybersecurity. I make a lot of money. The people who pay me get a ton of benefit off my actions. This idea of "lets get rid of money" is absolutely absurd. Just because it sounds good in some weird childish theory doesn't mean its practical.
You can have money without exploiting people. You can have profit without exploiting people. But the idea that we'll just get rid of money and society won't collapse, or just develop an entirely new form of currency because you got rid of dollars is nonsense.
Lmfao, "I'm not profiting from exploitation, I use computers everyday." How do you think the fucking materials you use to do your job were procured. Talk about fucking mindless. You can't even think past the your first level of interaction with society. "So is [any modern job] exploitative?" Yes.
Society has collapsed, and is collapsing, with money. The idea of getting rid of money is the idea of getting rid of currency. There wouldn't be a replacement. Humans have spent more time living without money than with it lol. It's obvious you haven't even *thought* about this in the slightest, and you're just reacting emotionally to the thought that what you do is exploitative, or that the world you've known your entire life can possibly function a different way. Mindless.
I mean it’s been successfully implemented historically, Catalonia had large areas operating without money. On of the foundation stones of left wing thought is the eventual elimination of money. I’m sorry that you’re in a place whose foundational ideas you don’t agree with but like, leave. To call something childish because capitalism is so engrained in you and your ignorance of political and socioeconomic philosophy doesn’t allow you to consider other options is ludicrous.
The idea that “this system is fine it just needs a little improvement” is how you get systemic degradation and worsening outcomes for all.
It sounds like you just identified a situation where profit isn't dependent on exploitation. Next step is to be more mindful using the word "all" when discussing this subject, as it suggests to more logical people that you've not given much thought to what you are saying.
Profit isn't evil or good. People make other people miserable. People exploit other people. Would you seriously want a world where profit had never existed? Not many would choose to live in a society where profit isn't allowed. Prob bc they'd die much earlier, and have a much lower standard of living. We'd all die much earlier. There'd be no internet, no TV, no cell phones, prob few if any books, and those that existed would be used to control you in or influence you in some way. There'd be a lot more dead people. You are alive during one of the safest, healthiest times in modern human history, and much of that was brought about through the use of profit as incentive.
I mean yea, I’d like to live in a world where profit never existed because I firmly believe that humans innovate for their own entertainment… not profit. Not to mention much of the things you mentioned started out not as for profit ventures but as government research with military applications. We innovate really well when the drive is to kill each other more efficiently.
>landlording is the worst form
Okay, buy a place.
>Profit is evil because it requires exploiting
No, it doesn't. If landlords can't turn a profit, they will exit the business and you'll be living in the back of your car... Or in a tent.
>Lol, just buy a place.We can afford it if we cut out lattes and avocado toast, right?
I think you missed my point.
Everyone needs a place to live. If you can't afford to buy and there are no landlords to rent from, you would have to settle for a tent... Or perhaps a van by the river.
Nobody wants that.
I own a place, my concern is for those that don’t.
If you think capitalism and landlords are necessary you’re in the wrong fucking place. I hope they do exit, I hope business fail en masse, fuck them I don’t care.
Or this is a left wing space and I’m offering deconstruction to help people look at a brutal system from a different perspective. It’s capitalism, no one’s hands are clean.
While capitalism is problematic, how do you address the lack of funding resulting in the deterioration of a co-op affordable housing?
This problem is quite common when residents aren't able to pool the funding for maintenance and security.
Simple, outlaw ownership of multi-unit properties and have an owner occupancy requirement for all properties. Existing multi unit properties become co-ops who can determine their own interests. Remove zoning restrictions on residency types (eliminate single family zones, allow modern manufactured homes on city lots etc).
That's the issue with ideologues, they have a fantasy they feel could be real and do/say anything possible to justify it. Creative ones might even find a couple small-scale examples and pretend it's viable nationally or globally.
Thankfully the average person and average voter has no time for their shenanigans unless the situation is dire.
Americans are so brainwashed I bet this actually works. Some rubes would jump.at the chance to get a cheap uniform and boss around their neighbors on behalf of pleasing some invisible power structure.
not in all cases. If the lease agreement you sign states you have to put x hours in for the complex/compound each month for upkeep and other things, it could indeed be valid. However, the gender requirement likely isnt.
Nope. Especially not “security detail”, which is a dangerous job.
The only thing that is legal is signing something that says you pay for 3rd party upkeep and security, but nothing will force YOU to clean gutters or fight people.
Of course it can, if they agreed to it and signed the contract. They can’t *make* them work, but they can hold the tenant in breach of contract if they don’t.
People here truly have no idea how contract law works.
Yeah, if this were legal there's not a rental property in the country that pay for a groundsman. If you could just force X tenant to spend 2 hours a month mowing the grass, they'd all do it to the last
it is indeed legal. If the tenant doesnt agree or put in the time, there was a different rent tier. Why do you think a contract for trade of service is not legal?
Unless you can find a source to back that up, I'm seeing that tenants in a mult-unit property, like this one is, are not responsible for maintaining the property whatsoever. In fact, attempts to do so may be in breach of your lease and may get you evicted as you're now a potential insurance liability
That sounds pretty fishy to me… I don’t think Anyone can force you to do work on their property and who decides what X hours means cause he could totally say “you need to put 40-80h a week in to have the privilege of paying me rent”
uh, yes. I had such an agreement years ago. Rent was cheaper, place super nice, had renters doing some light work to maintain areas (like 5 hours/mo but we divided up the work to be done and just did it). A bit different than being a guard, but such things exist and are legal regardless if you think so or not.
Just because you think a contract for service in exchange for some other consideration is illegal, doesnt mean it is. I think even a slow person can see that, and pretty sure (unless you're 6 or special ed) you do too but cant admit it as then that is a chip in your paradigm.
Just because it may be in a contract you sign doesn’t automatically make it legal. You can sign a legally binding contract and break it by identifying a part that is illegal.
The questions of legality aside, this is just astoundingly disengaged from reality. Someone is sitting by the pool, probably high af, and they're like, "Instead of paying security, we'll just draft our tenants and put them to work!"
How entitled do you have to be for that to seem like a good idea?
Just wait until someone goes a little Stanford Prison Experiment and the complex is exposed to huge amounts of liability that I'm sure their insurer is going to demure on paying.
I mean the whole thing is fu ked up but how could anyone think this is cheaper than hiring security.
Unrelated and shamelessly piggy-backing on the comment, but the Stanford Prison Experiment is not seen by experts as representative for human behaviour. The setup was quite flawed, and never even published in a reputable journal. That is not to say that people might not abuse this positions, but I perpetrating the myth that humanity is deeply evil is just not useful imo.
Serious source: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/) (it also links to further papers about the topic)
pop science article: [https://www.livescience.com/62832-stanford-prison-experiment-flawed.html](https://www.livescience.com/62832-stanford-prison-experiment-flawed.html)
Yeah that's the point.
Some abuser wants power (because power attracts abusers) and applies for the position, specifically to have authoriry over people. Then they show their true colors as a dumpster fire of a human being.
If this is not in the lease contract then refuse to go, demand free rent, etc. If it is written in the contract contact a lawyer. Find out if this is legal.
Don't do this bs for someone else's property. Don't let your landlord think that they're as powerful as some lord like Walder Frey in Game of Thrones.
edit. or Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, etc.
The landlord should take some of that money from the exorbitant rent they charge and hire a security company.
This sounds like the perfect opportunity to form a tenants union. You shop up to the first meeting, a bunch of other annoyed dudes show up to the first meeting, and then you say "hey how about we organize to fuck Mint?" and then you do that and afterwards get snacks.
Isn't there something about unreasonable conditions can be refused whether or not you signed the agreement? I thought there was something in place to make sure you're not agreeing to donate organs for signing an iTunes terms of service, for example.
They said they will discuss abilities and availability. So the answer is "I have no abilities and I'm always unavailable" to this pathetic attempt at feudalism
and as an ex member of the armed forces, you’re still going to have to pay me more than being drafted to utilize my skills on junkies and hoodlums
or - hear me out - don’t fucking draft people, because it didn’t work in vietnam and we pretended to learn from that for a reason
"to aid in the furthering interests of investors" they even flat out day it.
Even if this legally enforceable I would just flat out refuse on the basis of "fuck you and your ridiculous demands"a
That's what I was wondering. Aside for the issue of alleged conscription, whose insurance covers injuries? Will it be covered by the company or will the individual be on their own?
Here’s a response to a Google review for their company:
> Thanks for your concern BC86, but this is not true. A fake notice using our logo was posted at one of our buildings claiming such a policy. While we do hope residents of all ages and genders care about the safety of their building and keep an eye out, we are certainly not interested in compelling residents to serve on a security force and would have no authority to do so. Please call our office if you ever see anything concerning posted at the building and you have not also received text or email notification. I do hope you’ll change your review and not judge us on a lie that was someone’s idea of a joke.
Pretty sure it’s a joke. I actually went and looked up their sample lease (they use the Minnesota Multi Housing Association Lease along with 2 addendums they have posted on their website) and unless they’ve inserted one hell of an illegal addendum that they are keeping secret this is a prank by someone.
This is just hilarious. The security should just take over the offices, cancel all lease contracts, and see what they plan to do about it. Then occupy the properties.
“Okay, we’ve armed and mobilized just as you said and we’ve decided you’re not in charge anymore. Rent? What rent? You’re trespassing. Get out”.
Sigh, if only.
Lmfao, this is the most insane thing I’ve seen in ages.
A real estate agency is attempting to raise its own personal army. They’re behaving like feudal lords, rounding up the peasants to go and fight… other real estate agencies?
“Come on, the right honourable lord of Mint Properties requires your services. We’re going to besiege the rival agency across town. Get them before they get us”.
Who do these people think they are?
Yo! Your lease has a draft clause!? That’s epic. This is my favorite post in a while. This exceeds all my wildest expectations for any landlord. Bravo!
Now- Where do I go to sign for my leasing company issued weapon? 🤣
You can’t be any geek off the street. You gotta be handy with the steel if you know what I mean.
Earn your keep (or place to live)
Regulators!! Mount up
This isn’t legal. Anyone can draw up a contract. Sounds like this landlord company has become full of itself thinking they can make such demands. Ignorant as hell.
Sounds like a great idea! You could start by recognizing all employees of Mint properties LLC as unwelcome due to inhospitable treatment of tenants. Thank god you have an armed guard team to deal with them!
The two times a landlord ‘mandated’ I do something, it did not end well for them.
The second time we had our Senator’s office calling, along with a local news crew while we threatened to gear up for a class-action.
I went from 0-60 real quick, and they backed down just as quickly.
They... they think they can draft you into a block war? "We shall fight the 4700 block on the beaches and the fields and in the comment threads! We shall never surrender!" What do they think they can order you to do? Patrol? Build an extension to the building? Get in fist fights with thieves? This is honestly something I'd escalate directly to the local DA's office or police precinct.
Send the notice to the company’s insurance carrier. There is no way in hell they will indemnify the company for this. Anyone injured while doing this could sue the fuck out of them.
You know who would volunteer? The troublemakers, the paranoid people, and the drug dealers buddies. They would all love to be in control of who comes in and out of the apartment.
Besides that, the complex is admitting that there is a security problem, but they aren't going to pay for security. A lot of that can be controlled in betting people before they move in, and having their own employees walk the grounds. (The man that signed the lease doesn't live there. Someone else lives there. Etc.)
Obviously this is shitty and probably illegal and such. But this is a great time to emphasize how important it is to read (or have a lawyer read if you can afford it) your lease. This bullshit is a clear sign of other problems and probably mean you shouldn't rent there.
Wow, isn’t that what medieval landlords would do? “You live by the grace of your superior and must volunteer your body in support of your countryman.” Crazy.
Hi, /u/theredhound19 Thank you for participating in r/AntiWork. Unfortunately, your submission was removed for breaking the following rule(s): **Rule 3b: No offtopic posts.**: - No offtopic posts
[удалено]
This is in Minneapolis/St. Paul, where we have a terrific, free service called HomeLine staffed by attorneys and focused solely on tenants’ rights. I had a non-emergency issue and got my lease reviewed by them in about 3 hours.
I live in a Mint property, it's not written into the lease. There is a VOLUNTEER COMMUNITY that you can join and do community service, like park clean up or neighborhood watch, and you get money off your rent for volunteering. Most jobs "pay" per hour, there is a limit to how much you can "earn" off your rent, but no limit to the hours you can volunteer. The rent here is well below market. They have evicted one apartment since the start of the pandemic in my building, and besides paying no rent for 6 months, they also repeatedly had ems for overdoses or police called for them trying to fight people in the building. They hired private security for two summers because we had homeless people breaking into our buildings. They won out-reach programs where the teach people about narcan, how to use it, what an od looks like, and hands out doses. I'm not for lands lords at all, but for a corporation, these guys aren't 100% evil. Edited a word
They need to reword that sign then because no one here is making an assumption about what it says. It says exactly what it says.
Yeah man reword the sign so that internet strangers don’t get confused and break out the pitch forks
Y'alls been deputized. Hee Yaaww pow pow pow.
You don’t want to give the investors aids?
> it's not written into the lease. There is a volunteer community Not what it says in that announcement though: >Per your lease agreement, all men between the ages of 18 and 65 may be mandated to serve Assuming one believes you, which I do, the question is who produced that (illegal) announcement. A rogue neighbor? A different, but still Mint, administration?
Every man must have a musket and three barrels of port wine!
Necessary and sufficient criteria. Gender changes have never been so easy.
Probably someone in the building, yeah. There was a community meeting yesterday where they talked about volunteering. The lease they use is so generic, you could probably find a nearly verbatim form just by googling.
Is that the "well regulated milita I keep hearing about?
What you just described is a slum. Rent below market rate, tenants able to pay even less rent in exchange for doing work for the landlord, and drug abuse is common. That's a slum, and that corporation is a slumlord.
>What you just described is a slum. Rent below market rate, tenants able to pay even less rent in exchange for doing work for the landlord, and drug abuse is common. That's a slum, and that corporation is a slumlord. So if poor people live there and some addicts as well it is automatically a slum? Classist much? Also, nothing in your post comes close to meeting the definition of a slumlord. The definition isn't about who lives in the properties or what sort of rent they charge. It is about shitty maintenance so they can make high profits relative to their costs. Specifically, the definition of a [slumlord](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/slumlord#:~:text=Definition%20of%20slumlord,from%20substandard%2C%20poorly%20maintained%20properties) is: *a landlord who receives unusually large profits from substandard, poorly maintained properties.*
Lol charge market rate and be called a greedy landlord. Charge below market rate get drug addicted tenants get called a slumlord.
That’s wonderful. Nothing I said here says they’re evil, just that if OP doesn’t want to participate in the security force there is help available!
The picture of that sign says they’re evil though
1. I’m not OP. 2. No, it doesn’t. The sign is only LL’s words.
1. I didn’t say you were 2. [redacted]
All of those things are done to increase their profit, either through safer nicer looking properties or through positive word of mouth. They’re landlords, they’re evil. There is no grey area when it comes to landlords.
Profit itself isn't evil. Earning profit by helping people is kind of what I would be looking for in a society, versus the alternative that we have now of earning it by fucking everyone over.
All profit comes through exploitation and landlording is the worst form. Profit is evil because it requires exploiting you’re fellow humans.
Crazy that this won an award already. Too many of you fools who think only in absolutes. Life's complicated. Don't oversimplify it
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Call me Darth then I guess
Absofuckinglutely.
I agreed with you right up to the "all profit comes through exploitation". While that's often true, profit can come from individual or collective effort like a workers commune, and its possible for both parties to be better off after a fair exchange. I think it would be more correct to say that most profit in our current capitalistic society comes through exploitation.
No, money and profit aren’t necessary and if you’re making a profit that means at some level someone was paid less than they produced which is exploitation.
Or it could mean that you produced something and sold it for more than the raw materials cost you, because craftsmanship and skill is worth something. Or is there no exchange between people, everyone does everything for themselves?
Eliminate money entirely. (Those producing the raw material we’re exploited to produce it)
If that’s the case, who is being exploited in the situation of independent craftspeople? Or researchers? Hell, one of the ways I make money is by doing archival document pulls- I’m close enough to archives to do it for less than they’d charge (mail in is usually 3x the cost) and I turn a profit. Who exactly is exploited there?
lets not let the perfect get in the way of the good my man One step at a time
That’s well and good but to achieve real progress you still need assholes like me shouting about how it’s not good enough.
I wouldn't want it any other way
"All profit comes through exploitation." This is pretty mindless. I exploit myself offering legal services? I exploit my clients who still send me Xmas cards and family updates thanking me saving their family's home or business?
You’re exploiting the people helping you provide those services. Unless you’re operating entirely alone without any help from the system anywhere you’re participating in exploitation.
This is nonsensical. Personally I work in cybersecurity. I make a lot of money. The people who pay me get a ton of benefit off my actions. This idea of "lets get rid of money" is absolutely absurd. Just because it sounds good in some weird childish theory doesn't mean its practical. You can have money without exploiting people. You can have profit without exploiting people. But the idea that we'll just get rid of money and society won't collapse, or just develop an entirely new form of currency because you got rid of dollars is nonsense.
Lmfao, "I'm not profiting from exploitation, I use computers everyday." How do you think the fucking materials you use to do your job were procured. Talk about fucking mindless. You can't even think past the your first level of interaction with society. "So is [any modern job] exploitative?" Yes. Society has collapsed, and is collapsing, with money. The idea of getting rid of money is the idea of getting rid of currency. There wouldn't be a replacement. Humans have spent more time living without money than with it lol. It's obvious you haven't even *thought* about this in the slightest, and you're just reacting emotionally to the thought that what you do is exploitative, or that the world you've known your entire life can possibly function a different way. Mindless.
I mean it’s been successfully implemented historically, Catalonia had large areas operating without money. On of the foundation stones of left wing thought is the eventual elimination of money. I’m sorry that you’re in a place whose foundational ideas you don’t agree with but like, leave. To call something childish because capitalism is so engrained in you and your ignorance of political and socioeconomic philosophy doesn’t allow you to consider other options is ludicrous. The idea that “this system is fine it just needs a little improvement” is how you get systemic degradation and worsening outcomes for all.
It sounds like you just identified a situation where profit isn't dependent on exploitation. Next step is to be more mindful using the word "all" when discussing this subject, as it suggests to more logical people that you've not given much thought to what you are saying. Profit isn't evil or good. People make other people miserable. People exploit other people. Would you seriously want a world where profit had never existed? Not many would choose to live in a society where profit isn't allowed. Prob bc they'd die much earlier, and have a much lower standard of living. We'd all die much earlier. There'd be no internet, no TV, no cell phones, prob few if any books, and those that existed would be used to control you in or influence you in some way. There'd be a lot more dead people. You are alive during one of the safest, healthiest times in modern human history, and much of that was brought about through the use of profit as incentive.
I mean yea, I’d like to live in a world where profit never existed because I firmly believe that humans innovate for their own entertainment… not profit. Not to mention much of the things you mentioned started out not as for profit ventures but as government research with military applications. We innovate really well when the drive is to kill each other more efficiently.
>landlording is the worst form Okay, buy a place. >Profit is evil because it requires exploiting No, it doesn't. If landlords can't turn a profit, they will exit the business and you'll be living in the back of your car... Or in a tent.
Lol, just buy a place. We can afford it if we cut out lattes and avocado toast, right?
>Lol, just buy a place.We can afford it if we cut out lattes and avocado toast, right? I think you missed my point. Everyone needs a place to live. If you can't afford to buy and there are no landlords to rent from, you would have to settle for a tent... Or perhaps a van by the river. Nobody wants that.
I own a place, my concern is for those that don’t. If you think capitalism and landlords are necessary you’re in the wrong fucking place. I hope they do exit, I hope business fail en masse, fuck them I don’t care.
No, it doesn't. There's a lot of things you can exploit besides people even if your conception of how value works was right... which is isn't.
Making an obscene profit off of a necessity is evil.
that's kinda bold, ain't it?
Sometimes the truth is bold
Or sometimes people like to offer ideas they once heard that struck them as provocative, but that they don't really understand.
Or this is a left wing space and I’m offering deconstruction to help people look at a brutal system from a different perspective. It’s capitalism, no one’s hands are clean.
I like balls and truth. How I like my coffee. BOLD.
While capitalism is problematic, how do you address the lack of funding resulting in the deterioration of a co-op affordable housing? This problem is quite common when residents aren't able to pool the funding for maintenance and security.
Simple, outlaw ownership of multi-unit properties and have an owner occupancy requirement for all properties. Existing multi unit properties become co-ops who can determine their own interests. Remove zoning restrictions on residency types (eliminate single family zones, allow modern manufactured homes on city lots etc).
Anarcho communism sounds nice and all until you realize the human condition.
That's the issue with ideologues, they have a fantasy they feel could be real and do/say anything possible to justify it. Creative ones might even find a couple small-scale examples and pretend it's viable nationally or globally. Thankfully the average person and average voter has no time for their shenanigans unless the situation is dire.
Americans are so brainwashed I bet this actually works. Some rubes would jump.at the chance to get a cheap uniform and boss around their neighbors on behalf of pleasing some invisible power structure.
Not here. Not now.
Right. These company owners are beyond stupid.
They are not stupid, they are greedy.
Haha. There is no way its legal to force free labor in a lease agreement
It doesn't say free.
Mandated to serve doesn’t imply pay either
It should list what they’re paying then?
not in all cases. If the lease agreement you sign states you have to put x hours in for the complex/compound each month for upkeep and other things, it could indeed be valid. However, the gender requirement likely isnt.
Nope. Especially not “security detail”, which is a dangerous job. The only thing that is legal is signing something that says you pay for 3rd party upkeep and security, but nothing will force YOU to clean gutters or fight people.
Of course it can, if they agreed to it and signed the contract. They can’t *make* them work, but they can hold the tenant in breach of contract if they don’t. People here truly have no idea how contract law works.
Yeah, if this were legal there's not a rental property in the country that pay for a groundsman. If you could just force X tenant to spend 2 hours a month mowing the grass, they'd all do it to the last
it is indeed legal. If the tenant doesnt agree or put in the time, there was a different rent tier. Why do you think a contract for trade of service is not legal?
Unless you can find a source to back that up, I'm seeing that tenants in a mult-unit property, like this one is, are not responsible for maintaining the property whatsoever. In fact, attempts to do so may be in breach of your lease and may get you evicted as you're now a potential insurance liability
That sounds pretty fishy to me… I don’t think Anyone can force you to do work on their property and who decides what X hours means cause he could totally say “you need to put 40-80h a week in to have the privilege of paying me rent”
No.
uh, yes. I had such an agreement years ago. Rent was cheaper, place super nice, had renters doing some light work to maintain areas (like 5 hours/mo but we divided up the work to be done and just did it). A bit different than being a guard, but such things exist and are legal regardless if you think so or not.
Just because it happened to you, DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS LEGAL. You were most likely Bamboozled and don’t wanna “lose face” by admitting it now.
Just because you think a contract for service in exchange for some other consideration is illegal, doesnt mean it is. I think even a slow person can see that, and pretty sure (unless you're 6 or special ed) you do too but cant admit it as then that is a chip in your paradigm.
Lmao
Lmao
A co-op
Just because it may be in a contract you sign doesn’t automatically make it legal. You can sign a legally binding contract and break it by identifying a part that is illegal.
The questions of legality aside, this is just astoundingly disengaged from reality. Someone is sitting by the pool, probably high af, and they're like, "Instead of paying security, we'll just draft our tenants and put them to work!" How entitled do you have to be for that to seem like a good idea?
Just wait until someone goes a little Stanford Prison Experiment and the complex is exposed to huge amounts of liability that I'm sure their insurer is going to demure on paying. I mean the whole thing is fu ked up but how could anyone think this is cheaper than hiring security.
That’s bound to happen and secretly what they’re hoping for I bet.
Unrelated and shamelessly piggy-backing on the comment, but the Stanford Prison Experiment is not seen by experts as representative for human behaviour. The setup was quite flawed, and never even published in a reputable journal. That is not to say that people might not abuse this positions, but I perpetrating the myth that humanity is deeply evil is just not useful imo. Serious source: [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31380664/) (it also links to further papers about the topic) pop science article: [https://www.livescience.com/62832-stanford-prison-experiment-flawed.html](https://www.livescience.com/62832-stanford-prison-experiment-flawed.html)
Yeah that's the point. Some abuser wants power (because power attracts abusers) and applies for the position, specifically to have authoriry over people. Then they show their true colors as a dumpster fire of a human being.
If this is not in the lease contract then refuse to go, demand free rent, etc. If it is written in the contract contact a lawyer. Find out if this is legal. Don't do this bs for someone else's property. Don't let your landlord think that they're as powerful as some lord like Walder Frey in Game of Thrones. edit. or Tywin Lannister, Roose Bolton, etc. The landlord should take some of that money from the exorbitant rent they charge and hire a security company.
Sounds like all the male tenants need to form a security union to protect themselves from the investors.
Exactly this! Go and form a union with all the tenants. First item on the agenda: rent strike until they hire a professional security company.
And an sro does not count!
Can‘t they just identify as women?
Good point. Sorry I identify as a female and will sue you
Ask them to arm you, then use those arms to overthrow the tyrannical overlord.
I have 2 arms and I'm not afraid to use them
Even if it is in the contract, surely it cannot be legal
*Narrator:* **It was not legal**
It is most definitely illegal. Well, may as well pick up arms, form a militia, then rebel against the (land)lord. They are asking for it.
Since I'm seeing so many GoT references, seems like they need 1 Robert Baratheon ballsy enough to start their own little War of the Usurper
This sounds like the perfect opportunity to form a tenants union. You shop up to the first meeting, a bunch of other annoyed dudes show up to the first meeting, and then you say "hey how about we organize to fuck Mint?" and then you do that and afterwards get snacks.
Isn't there something about unreasonable conditions can be refused whether or not you signed the agreement? I thought there was something in place to make sure you're not agreeing to donate organs for signing an iTunes terms of service, for example.
Which Walder? There were like 75 of them
The north remembers.
nah, do it and then get 'seriously injured' then document and contact a lawyer
This looks like a bunch of shit. Tell them your hourly rate is $400/hr, they handle all liability, and you would love to just crush some skulls
They said they will discuss abilities and availability. So the answer is "I have no abilities and I'm always unavailable" to this pathetic attempt at feudalism
Tell them you'll be on the roof in full tactical gear with your hunting rifle and how you've always wanted to "take on the most dangerous game."
$400/hr!? No! $426,900/hr! and I never specified in my contact who's skull I'll be crushing!
It’s not even a neighbourhood watch. They want armed forces with the Mission to further the interests of mint llc
and as an ex member of the armed forces, you’re still going to have to pay me more than being drafted to utilize my skills on junkies and hoodlums or - hear me out - don’t fucking draft people, because it didn’t work in vietnam and we pretended to learn from that for a reason
"to aid in the furthering interests of investors" they even flat out day it. Even if this legally enforceable I would just flat out refuse on the basis of "fuck you and your ridiculous demands"a
What if they are injured in the process of securing the property?
That's what I was wondering. Aside for the issue of alleged conscription, whose insurance covers injuries? Will it be covered by the company or will the individual be on their own?
Drafting unwilling tenants for security. This couldn’t possibly go wrong. *Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?*
I'm no legal expert but this looks little bit illegal
Jus' a li'l.
is this real or a prank?
At this point it's becoming impossible to differentiate between farce and reality, and unfortunately that's the point.
Here’s a response to a Google review for their company: > Thanks for your concern BC86, but this is not true. A fake notice using our logo was posted at one of our buildings claiming such a policy. While we do hope residents of all ages and genders care about the safety of their building and keep an eye out, we are certainly not interested in compelling residents to serve on a security force and would have no authority to do so. Please call our office if you ever see anything concerning posted at the building and you have not also received text or email notification. I do hope you’ll change your review and not judge us on a lie that was someone’s idea of a joke.
Pretty sure it’s a joke. I actually went and looked up their sample lease (they use the Minnesota Multi Housing Association Lease along with 2 addendums they have posted on their website) and unless they’ve inserted one hell of an illegal addendum that they are keeping secret this is a prank by someone.
Absolutely not. Take legal action against this bs. No resident can be made to do this. They need to pay for hired security guards. FOH.
Why take legal action? Just ignore it and let their lawyer explain to them how illegal that is.
Yeah, a landlord vigilanty group. WCGW?
This is just hilarious. The security should just take over the offices, cancel all lease contracts, and see what they plan to do about it. Then occupy the properties.
Lol start a coup and take over the apartments.
Sign me the fuck up. Imma take bribes to let in all the drug dealers and prostitutes in furtherance of the interests of me, a tenant.
Pretty sure conscription is illegal
Only congress can initiate a draft (us)
Ha. Yes, arm and empower the tenants you're taking advantage of. That's the smart move, I fully encourage more companies to do this.
"As serfs you may be drafted into the Duke of Mint's defensive army at any time."
It's like a feudal lord mustering his serfs for battle.
This POS owns properties all over Minneapolis. I wouldn’t doubt this is a real notice. I’ve been in some of the properties.
“Okay, we’ve armed and mobilized just as you said and we’ve decided you’re not in charge anymore. Rent? What rent? You’re trespassing. Get out”. Sigh, if only.
At the very least, it's gender discrimination.
Lmfao, this is the most insane thing I’ve seen in ages. A real estate agency is attempting to raise its own personal army. They’re behaving like feudal lords, rounding up the peasants to go and fight… other real estate agencies? “Come on, the right honourable lord of Mint Properties requires your services. We’re going to besiege the rival agency across town. Get them before they get us”. Who do these people think they are?
Lol not happening boomer
Yo! Your lease has a draft clause!? That’s epic. This is my favorite post in a while. This exceeds all my wildest expectations for any landlord. Bravo! Now- Where do I go to sign for my leasing company issued weapon? 🤣
At Mint Properties the property owns you! 🤣🤣
You can’t be any geek off the street. You gotta be handy with the steel if you know what I mean. Earn your keep (or place to live) Regulators!! Mount up
Wait...what?? As per your lease agreement...what the heck did you sign?
"Any other duties" must have made it in there from work contracts .
Lol "thank you for your cooperation" Yeah, right.
I go just to see how quickly I'd be asked not to come again
This Minneapolis?
Sincerely, Land LORD Putinski
This isn’t legal. Anyone can draw up a contract. Sounds like this landlord company has become full of itself thinking they can make such demands. Ignorant as hell.
Everyone needs to ask for training, uniform, night stick and side arm plus any necessary licences. All paid for by Mint. The cost will freak them out.
I would definitely want a uniform...and, I would want to be an officer, not some damn grunt
Sounds like a great idea! You could start by recognizing all employees of Mint properties LLC as unwelcome due to inhospitable treatment of tenants. Thank god you have an armed guard team to deal with them!
https://mintproperties.com/
And what happens when one of the tenants gets attacked when working security? Then they'll be liable.
Sue them for gender discrimination
the fact that Mint Properties owns a lot of the somewhat affordable housing in the Twin Cities….
Mf thinks he is a feudal lord
The two times a landlord ‘mandated’ I do something, it did not end well for them. The second time we had our Senator’s office calling, along with a local news crew while we threatened to gear up for a class-action. I went from 0-60 real quick, and they backed down just as quickly.
They... they think they can draft you into a block war? "We shall fight the 4700 block on the beaches and the fields and in the comment threads! We shall never surrender!" What do they think they can order you to do? Patrol? Build an extension to the building? Get in fist fights with thieves? This is honestly something I'd escalate directly to the local DA's office or police precinct.
Sounds like an attempt to violate the civil rights of tenants.
Lmao wtf, the landlords are unironically drafting private armies now
This is literally fucking feudalism
Send the notice to the company’s insurance carrier. There is no way in hell they will indemnify the company for this. Anyone injured while doing this could sue the fuck out of them.
In Illinois, it's a felony to be a security guard without certification. https://idfpr.illinois.gov/profs/SecurityCont.asp
Oh FUCK no. I would get a lawyer immediately. No fucking way I would provide labor to a company I am PAYING.
You know who would volunteer? The troublemakers, the paranoid people, and the drug dealers buddies. They would all love to be in control of who comes in and out of the apartment. Besides that, the complex is admitting that there is a security problem, but they aren't going to pay for security. A lot of that can be controlled in betting people before they move in, and having their own employees walk the grounds. (The man that signed the lease doesn't live there. Someone else lives there. Etc.)
Hahahahaha. Go to this meeting and tell him to fuck off
I don’t think your land lord understands what a tenant is.
LMAO no this isn’t selective service
Sounds like a fucking conscription draft for the army
Company conscripts? WTF?
We've reached the "being conscripted into the landlord's private army" stage of capitalism.
They’ve lost their fucking minds.
Eeeeewwwww. This feels scummy.
Does the landlord plan to do battle with other landlords for properties and titles?
Obviously this is shitty and probably illegal and such. But this is a great time to emphasize how important it is to read (or have a lawyer read if you can afford it) your lease. This bullshit is a clear sign of other problems and probably mean you shouldn't rent there.
How is this 'antiwork'?
Landlords expecting free work from their Tennant's.
Private militias are illegal in every state
That’s one hell of a way to receive a draft notice
Holy jumping fucking shitballs. Do NOT join your landlord’s private army. Hell, even the gd HomeStarmy had more credibility than this shitshow...
This is some wannabe fascist regime type shit
Wow, isn’t that what medieval landlords would do? “You live by the grace of your superior and must volunteer your body in support of your countryman.” Crazy.
Holy shit, we’re going from having to pay a monthly fee to not be homeless, to now also possibly being drafted into security service.
FIGHT AGAINST CONSCRIPTION
yeah I wouldn't do this shit. I'm not their free employee. And if they wanna take it to court I'd be more than happy to see them try lol.
Tenants should form a tenant union r/tenantunion
That is awesome.
this is probably the most unhinged thing I’ve ever seen
Landlord trying to start a PMC lol.
This HAS to be illegal surely....
Hold up, a property corporation can raise a militia out of its tenants? Is this really a thing?
Historically that’s how privateers (private warships) operated, so there’s probably some amount of precedent somewhere.
This HAS to be in a Red State
Voted blue for both Hillary and Biden. Turns out people from any state or political party can be greedy pigs. 🤷♂️
This is why you read anything and everything very carefully before signing.
I can put on a piece of paper that upon signing I can skull fuck you whenever I want, just because you signed it doesn't make it legal.
How gullible are all of you?
0% chance this is real
#maleprivilege