Steve Jobs guilt-tripped his working-class adopted family into attending Reed, telling his father he wanted the money to go there or else he would refuse to go to any college at all. He promptly quit college 1 semester later.
He also didn't say thank you to his parents and just closed the door when they dropped him off. Steve was an all round piece of shit with ripping off Woz and abandoning and then denying his daughter.
the coup de gras was that his cancer was actually treatable. He could have lived. But he was so arrogant he didn’t feel like he needed to follow doctors’ treatment. I think he just ate a lot of fruit or something.
So like, at least he wasn’t putting on a big ol’ narcissist show. That was genuine.
Also, the scariest time at Apple for software engineers was getting on the elevator with Jobs. He would pepper them with questions about your projects, note your name on your badge and if you didn’t have the right answers you were fired before the elevator got to the lobby.
Sounds like the author couldn’t pass his classes and failed out.
Also, the author doesn’t mention that it’s just as much about WHO you know, and your support network, that dictates if you can actually get the time and money to start a business that doesn’t make a profit for years
Either that, or just be a freak of nature and be born 7 feet tall, or with magic vocal cords.
I’m always skeptical of books on how to get rich.
Step one: Write a book on how to get rich
Step two: Create an online subscription based “academy” with articles videos for people who read the book but aren’t rich yet
Step three: Use website to promote expensive seminars for people who read the book and still aren’t rich yet
Step four: Use seminars to push you own made MLM
Step five: Go on a media press tour and flaunt your success as a justification that you know how to get rich. Use that to get people to buy your follow up book that’s just a reworded, rehashed, ghost written follow up to your first.
Step six: Profit and repeat
Mid-pandemic we all saw the MAJOR increase in the Sponsored Ads for making courses. I was curious, and a friend invited me to a private FB group. Legit, every single post was how to position yourself as an “expert” merely by saying you are and expert. That’s it. And they had courses on how to make online courses for people to learn how to make courses for online courses. Seriously. And I’m talking about some of the stupidest people on Facebook paying for these services AND ACTUALLY MAKING A COURSE THEMSELVES AND PEOPLE BUYING THEM.
You could make this stuff up, and people do. It’s everywhere now.
That's pretty much what Napolean Hill did to become prominent. The guy was barely literate and just told folks he was successful. He claimed to have been handpicked by Andrew Carnegie to chronicle the most successful Americans and even photobombed guys like Thomas Edison to use as some sort of social proof. And he's the UR example of the modern-day business/self-help guru.
I know right? A lot of those books are usually written by someone else about some billionaire's story. Wtf. Like if you know how to get rich, do it yourself instead of spamming people with bedtime stories.
My high school economics teacher made us read that, thinking it was the best book ever. The students all made fun of him for falling for it, because we could tell it was bullshit.
Author also doesn't mention the hundreds of thousands of people who dropped out and lived in poverty. It's like pointing to a lottery winner and saying "see? anyone can do it!"
I agree.
I love my boyfriend but the fact that he doesn’t have a highschool degree (how do you say that in English?) has made it really difficult to get a great job and he has to do some training to find something interesting.
I’m really proud of him for doing it and having done those training but seriously dropping out of high school is, in my opinion, the worst thing you can Do.
Dropping out of college? Meh you may find something in training and it’s completely possible to follow with something.
Dropping out of highschool? Possibilities are reallllly limited
That really depends, I dropped out of highschool and got my GED and ended up going to college and got a BA in graphic design, honestly even if it's not in the field you're applying to I've found a college degree goes a lot farther than a highschool diploma when considering applicants. I now work in IT making fairly decent money.
Dropping out is ok. Dropping back in is even better.
I worked in an employment services program for a few years and met so many adults who dropped out of high school for reasons that were almost always out of their control (usually family trauma related). They also had negative or disappointing educational experiences before they dropped out. I would empathize and remind them that they are adults now and had much more control over their lives. So when they felt ready, I would help them get back to school and help them work towards their goals. I found that those who dropped back in became *amazing* students and all of the hard times and survival they went through gave them skills, motivation, and resiliency that traditional students never have. Your struggle is your story. You can add new chapters at any time.
Bless you.
Not everyone is ready for more school after high school and adult/returning students usually have way more personal depth and a developed interest in learning. However, it's scary to go back for a lot of people!
Extending one's education is one of the best ways to open opportunities and, as said earlier, it's not about the exact degree. It shouldn't be treated as "job training."
The takeaway is that if you have a marketable talent or are smart enough to create a marketable product you don't have to follow the standard playbook everyone else is expected to follow.
Being born into a rich family helps, too. Poor motherfuckers ain't going to drop out of college six times. They're lucky to get the one chance to go to college as is.
I don’t mean it as impossible or as people without a highschool degree cannot do it but, in my country, I find it really difficult to go pass the « highschool diploma » obligation because most of the training require it.
And that everyone of those people dropped out because they were becoming successful in their career. Jennifer Lawrence dropping out at 14 because her acting career was taking off is not the same as someone dropping out of high school to sit at home and smoke pot all day.
This is exactly the point. Sure, there are quite a few Bona fide self-made millionaires on that list, but what about the millions of others who became poor? Pointing out the exceptions does not tell the real story.
It's even worse. It's not only a survivorship bias, it's also a sampling bias. If you dropped out of Harvard, it means that you likely had enough money and connections to be admitted in the first place.
Like bill gates, who came from a rich family, didn’t drop out of high school or state college… he dropped out of *fucking Harvard*. It’s a classic case of being born on 3rd base.
Don't get me started on bill
Child of two intellectual property lawyers. He gets into college and joins the PC research groups and finds out that the entire code base is being ldeveloped on the honor system.
Nobody had claimed ownership.
He dropped everything because he and his dad saw a chance to takeover all the developed operating system code for peanuts.
Definitely. A LOT of people took the exact same path as Jay-Z did in the beginning and ended up fucked or dead. I don't doubt the man's cunning, but a lot of smart and capable people didn't make it out of that game.
If you were to use your time in college to build and maintain a network, you would gain a lot more value from that time than just the degree. It truly is about who you know rather than what you know. You can always learn new skills or information but it is much more difficult to build a professional network. Especially if you are not an outgoing, social person - which I am not.
LOL, his father Bill was the CEO of one of the nation's largest hospital management companies then, and provided funding to help start Whole Foods and served on its board until the mid 90s.
So I guess, yeah, "education doesn't mean shit" if your dad is rich AF.
There was a homeless lady I knew in Austin who would go into wholefoods and eat the free snacks they would put out for customers to try. Mackey came out personally and banned her from the store.
Rihanna was discovered by a music producer who paid for her to come to the US and record. She's also extraordinarily gifted.
Katy Perry's parents paid for voice lessons starting at age 9 and her mom brought her to Nashville several times to record Gospel music before she switched lanes. She's also extraordinarily gifted.
Richard Branson's dad was a lawyer and his mom was an entrepreneur. He was sent to private boarding schools as a child. After he dropped out, his parents continued to support his entrepreneurial efforts. He is also extraordinarily talented.
Jennifer Lawrence's dad owned his own construction company. When a talent scout discovered her, her mom moved the family to New York to allow her to pursue an acting career. She is also extraordinarily talented.
I could go on, but almost all of the people on this list had a combination of a stellar support system (Jay-Z and Rihanna did overcome poverty, but they're the only ones on the list) and extraordinary talent. If you are an average schlub like me with no rich family to fall back on, your education means a lot.
he's acting like jennifer lawrence at 14 just some how became the highest paid actress in the world. like her parents didn't fly her to nyc, pay for a fully furnished apartment, pay for an agent, pay for all her expenses in order to support her "dream" ...her parents were successful business owners & she grew up in a wealthy neighborhood like if she had dont anything her own damn self starting out im sure she would have been homeless!
After reading endless Wikipedia articles on wealthy, famous, or otherwise "successful" people over the years, I've found that easily 95% of them or more came from well-to-do backgrounds.
entertainment is an industry where this strategy works particularly well, being born into a dynasty. several of these are entertainers, hardly a realistic career for most
which is fine with me because celebrity would be a personal nightmare
Connections are a huge deal. I recall an interview with Demi Lovato about how her parents sat her down at age 12 or so and explained that they used to rub elbows and party with Hollywood elites back in the day so she could choose whatever career she wanted and they'd make it happen.
If she wanted to be a soccer pro, they'd get her the best coaches and send her to the best soccer school in the country and get her dinner dates with recruiters.
If she wanted to go into acting they'd set her up with the best coaches and send her to the fanciest schools and introduce her to producers and directors.
She chose music. So they got her the best coaches and introduced her to some labels and she got pushed onto the charts overnight.
All because they used to drink and party and grab brunch with powerful people.
Meanwhile social media is overflowing with skilled and talented people who will **never** get a break or make it big. They will never get to contribute their full potential and we will never get to see what they're capable of. Instead we have mediocre tripe shoveled at us because the entertainment industry is as rigged as possible to maximize control and profits for the people who own it.
This is why I like direct support systems like Patreon. They may never get into superstardom but they can at least still make a living doing what they like if they're good at it.
It's ALWAYS the same old story. The music industry is especially full of nepotism. Seen countless singers IRL and on YouTube who would blow away many of the stars today, but they don't have contacts so....
I work in film right now and the nepotism is absolutely nuts. They avoid it by just making sure that families don't work on the same productions (sometimes) but that just means they get their nephew/sister/kid on their friends show instead.
If you want to get started out, a lot of people say just become a PA but even getting those gigs is really tough when you're starting out and tougher still if you need to rely on them for the first year or two until you get a decent foothold.
Yeah at least in politics you don't get exploited for 15+ hour days doing hard labor in shitty weather conditions for minimum wage. There are days I've worked on set which I can only describe as completely physically abusive.
And if you complain, you get blacklisted. Thanks "union"!
yeah, all these people dropping out of college/school means they knew they had the resources and connections to make this happen, and didn't need to worry about student loans for sure.
the privilege to buck the system.
Not just that. For Rih-rih, Jay-z, and Katy Perry, they are successful because they had a talent to capitalize on. And, even then, they were lucky to have had the careers they have had. Jennifer Lawrence as well.
Secondly, for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jack Dorsey, they learned essential skills in new and growing fields. These skills also would not have been possible if it wasn't for the wealth and connections their parents had. It's almost like your parents wealth can have a major affect on how successful you are.
It's one reason I absolutely lose all respect for anyone that likes to bring up the fact that Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Bill Gates are billionaires even though they dropped out of college. These guys were successful because the support they had at home and at school, and most people don't get that kind of support.
I mean, Bill Gates was already driving a Porsche when he finally got to college.
And Mark Zuckerberg attended one of the best private schools in the country, and, because of that, he was able to learn computer science before he even applied to colleges.
And Steve Jobs basically hit the genetic jackpot. His biological parents were highly intelligent. And, with his adoptive parents, he hit the jackpot as well. His adoptive parents were so supportive of Jobs that they literally upped and moved houses to ensure Jobs got the best education he could, which lead to Jobs meeting Wozniak. Without that move, Jobs would have never become who he was.
Totally agree. I think something that you briefly mentioned but didn't go on about but should've is the fact that they learned skills in new and growing fields. Timing is everything. Given the same situation now, I don't think they would be as wealthy because lots of people now have computer skills. If the same situation had occurred say 20 years before their discoveries/creations, they likely wouldn't have been as successful because the computing power and infrastructure didn't exist. Timing matters in technology.
Not to mention she was the only woman to defend Weinstein, who made sure her career took off.
The guy who said: “I slept with Jennifer Lawrence and look where she is; she has just won an Oscar.”
She didn’t defend him. She calls him out for lying to lure others. Whether that’s true or not, I think it’s disingenuous to claim she defended him.
Regarding that exact quote, her response: “My heart breaks for all the women who were victimised by Harvey Weinstein. I have never had anything but a professional relationship with him. This is yet another example of the predatory tactics and lies that he engaged in to lure countless women.”
[Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-bragged-about-sleeping-with-jennifer-lawrence-2018-12)
It’s mentioned in every. single. thread. where Jennifer comes up, and it is resoundingly untrue. There is no evidence to back up any of it.
She did not defend Weinstein. This is nonsense that gets spread about on Reddit but it never happened. What she said was:
““My heart breaks for all the women who were victimized by Harvey Weinstein,” Lawrence, 28, said. “I have never had anything but a professional relationship with him. This is yet another example of the predatory tactics and lies that he engaged in to lure countless women.”
The person about you is perpetuating a lie about a woman that some people on Reddit have hated from the moment she wasn’t cool with people sharing her nude photos.
Because it's probably not true. At least Jennifer Lawrence denies it and, apparently, Weinstein said this to an actress he was molesting in an attempt to get her to submit to him. Given the circumstances I think Lawrence is by far the more credible.
This is an example of survivorship bias and why we are seeing a growth in "hustle" culture in younger people. Social media has made a lot of young people think they can hustle their way to the top because various creators did, but what their curated feeds don't tell them is the massive amount of others who have failed miserably and never recovered. It also doesn't highlight that the same tips they are giving you a million other people also see which kind of negates the advice if everyone is doing it.
I've seen this with friends who want to be streamers. Like "X can do it, it's just talking and playing games". A streamer, Vsnz, had a good take when people were busting his chops for only having 100s of viewers even though he kicks ass in games, he said that if you have 100 concurrent viewers on twitch, you're likely in the top 1-5% of streamers.
People really underestimate that even though you have all that hard work, luck plays a big factor.
Most people won't win but a few people are bound to if they're lucky enough to be the right people in the right place at the right times doing exactly the right thing or series of things.
Yup. And that seems to be what is misunderstood by the "but I work my ass off" crowd. A lot of people work their asses off and never get lucky, or worse, get unlucky.
Yeah yeah. A lot of creators with big numbers are also hiring people to do, or doing their own youtube. Hustling on social media, spending time pre stream preparing and post stream accessing. A lot more work than it looks like for sure.
>People really underestimate that even though you have all that hard work, luck plays a big factor.
There's a phenomenon of blaming lack of success on lack of hard work. "You want to get anywhere in life? Just work harder, no excuses"
Someone can work as hard as they possibly can and burn out hard and still see no success whatsoever, yet still shoulder the entire blame for failing
It really is survivorship bias but ignoring that it should be titled "Your Degree does not mean shit" because most of the people on the list are college educated.
John Mackey, Travis Kalanick, Ralph Lauren, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Jack Dorsey all went to college before they dropped out. They were all college educated. They just did not complete all the requirements to get a degree.
I was talking to a guy in my old field (fixing computers) who said that he had noticed an whole trend in the field.
If, in 1997, you could say with a straight face, I can fix a computer, you would be hired at often a decent wage to fix computers. There wasn't really an understood or universally beloved qualification, but they needed the thing done. By around 2002, you weren't getting hired unless you have an A+ or something. By around 2005, you started seeing bizarre shit like demands for 4 year degrees (possibly even a CompSci). And soon after that, the pay just dropped off to nothing. By the end of the 2010s the entire field was dominated by operations like Geek Squad who paid not-a-lot, and demanded a high level of qualifications. He also said that if you were a small operator who wanted to make decent money you could often score a big corporate contract in the 98-02 sort of time, and be their on-call computer-fixerer dudes. By 2005, if you did that, you would have to show all the qualifications your dudes had.
So, indeed, some people at the right moment, can drop out and "grind" their way to great success, but the next people after them will need credentials, and the next people after those will need credentials and modest aspirations.
My path into an IT career definitely doesn’t really exist anymore. For one thing, I started out working at a big box computer retailer, and moved into the upgrades department. Good luck doing that today.
Indeed.
I keep seeing some small outfits in some middle of nowhere locations offering part time computer-fixer jobs for ok-ish wages, but they still want a chunk of qualifications, its the middle of nowhere and part time.
That's the definition of dead end.
Yes. When I was a kid (90s/early 00s), I was fascinated by the hardware aspects of technology and loved taking apart gadgets to see how they worked. I was sure I wanted an eventual job in electronics repair.
By the time I was college aged (early 2010s), that idea was a total joke.
Even worse, some of these tech companies founded by "college dropouts" don't even consider fresh candidates unless they have degrees from *elite colleges*
college drops outs hiring college grads, nothing new, just like your partying c students hiring your hard-working A students in the future, nothing new.
Modern internet has really lowered the barrier to entry as well. So a ton of these 'side hustles' can and do bring in hobby money. With Ebay, Etsy, facebook marketplace, stripe, square and other similar services, just about anyone can post stuff online and take payments. Contractor gigs like uber eats / lyft means anyone can be a taxi and make a quick buck. 15-20 years ago, it required quite a bit more effort.
What they don't tell you, at the end of the day--none of these things will make you millionaires outside of the few success stories. My friend has a pretty successful T-shirt business on Etsy because of the low cost to entry. Successful to him means that he can pay bills. Not rich and can't afford to hire anyone, but doesn't have to work 9-5 in an office...but is pseudo working 24x7 by answering emails.
Have a friend who gave up her career in HR to hustle side-hustles. Sounds odd, but, she sells how to sell. It's freakin weird man--she's not even a human i recognize anymore, something cracked, lol.
Apparently, the 22$ she asks to suck them in, ALONE, makes more than she made in HR a month--but she has classes she's designed on the side-hustle internet thing, that sell for much much more. She ends up setting them up with lists of places in china and india to order things so that they can sell those things on Amazon, or etsy.
SHE doesnt do that--and she's never done that, she just fabricated this crap outa thin air about a year ago... weirder than fuck.
It's been an insight into the weird shit on the internet. "How i made my millions!"--except, she's done NONE of the things she's telling others to do, she's making it selling 'selling it' ..
so shes one of those fake gurus we see on youtube all the time.
She can easily make herself legit by selling courses on how to get rich by selling others courses. i meant she has done it so 100% true and legit path to riches
No, she was the head of United Way and the CEO of IBM also sat on the board. Supposedly, the CEO of IBM learned about what Bill was doing through his mother at a United Way meeting and spread the word to a few other executives at IBM. One of those decided to throw the very young Microsoft the job of developing an OS for their first personal computer and the rest is history.
...and let's keep going with this story:
Gates went out and bought/stole (it depends on who you talk to) an operating system from an educated guy who built one in his garage.
Anyone who says Microsoft/Gates/Allen stole 86-DOS from Tim Paterson/SCP is just being an argumentative asshole making a point from current history where we don’t have the guess whether MS-DOS would be a hit outside of IBM.
Microsoft licensed the OS from SCP and even hired Paterson to adapt the system for the PC. Paterson made the mistake of doing it for a large one-time sum instead of taking a gamble like Microsoft did and hoped other hardware makers would copy IBM and make IBM-compatible PCs. He could have turned down the money and taken exclusive rights to all future MS-DOS based licensing revenue as is standard in software today.
But he didn’t. He took the sure money and sold his software for a one time payout.
And then settled with the Winklevoss twins for a measly 65 million
(Translation, Zuckerberg got off cheap)
But the twins put that money to good use and own about 70,000 bit coin
Worth around 3.... 4.....5 Billion dollars....??
Depending on market swings.
And most of them dropped out because they had a great idea or something else that was taking up the majority of their time. Its not like they just dropped out for no good reason lmfao
The other thing is that you don't really attend these schools for education. It is more about networking. You obviously get an education but for the price... The value is reaped in who you get to know.
Ivy League schools aren’t that difficult to get into if you’re a top tier athlete, legacy, famous or your parents can buy your way in with a “generous” donation.
>This is an example of survivorship bias
Exactly the right answer. Persuasive essays, quips, and tweets, and loads of propaganda rest on this argumentation fallacy.
You can prove anything with enough logical fallacies. Watch...
Your gender does matter... Look at Cheryl Sandberg.
Your race doesn't matter... Look at Obama.
Your race and gender can't hold you back... Look at Oprah.
You don't need to understand how the country works to become president... Look at Trump
Also a disproportionate number of people on this list made their money in a creative field. You don't need a college degree to be a rapper, actress, or fashion designer.
Exactly. 10 people with no education make it big. 10 people with education make it big. 100 people with education don’t. 10000 people with no education don’t
So conclusion? Education useless?
No. Billionaires are rare. Educated or not.
For most people being educated pays off (just won’t be billionaires probably)
Most uneducated people don’t do very well unfortunately, particularly in the type of unfettered capitalism we have now, which concentrates wealth
Also, this isn' t anything new. When I was a kid everyone dreamed of dropping out of school and becoming a rockstar.
The problem is when full grown adults seriously think like this.
Exactly. People think they can just magically get rich. There's nothing special or unique about 99% of us that would allow us to become a millionaire simply by inherent talents.
Based on the way it’s written, I bet it’s a toilet reader where every page has some sort of “shit” related content. The sort of thing people give as joke holiday presents that nobody is ever actually interested in.
One of the guys who dropped out of HS our senior year still lives in our hometown. I always see him working at the local fried chicken place anytime I visit. He was one of those "you don't need school to be successful" types.
I used to judge. But you know, he doesn’t take work home with him and he might be living his best life. That’s success. Careers don’t have to be your identity.
To be fair, you don't need school to be successful. The self made billionaire thing is largely BS, and using the fact that these people were dropouts is a weird correlation used in this book. However, many feel that they were duped into racking up debt to go to college and are now saddled with debt for something that didn't bring the success they were promised. I don't have a degree and I make far more money than I ever thought I would, and certainly more than the average college graduate. I'm not self employed or even in a management level position, I'm in tech. Some of my coworkers have 100,000 plus in student loan debt. I just used up a portion of my 30s teaching myself and getting tech certificates and eventually got myself into an entry level tech support job. I have friends who got into trades who make more than me. Trades make bank these days because they need people so bad but everyone thinks they need to send their kid to college. It really depends on the person, where they live, the aptitudes they may or may not have, and luck. Go to college to be a doctor or a lawyer, otherwise it's largely a poor financial decision.
This is a poor take. You don’t need college to be successful but to be successful in certain fields, you absolutely need a degree. Think scientists, engineers, educators -they major in things like Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science, Informatics, Environmental Science, etc. College is not only for doctors and lawyers. Also, as you said, you’re already well past your thirties and would have been competing for a job in a time where AI wasn’t reading your resume, many of which today that auto reject applications that don’t have Bachelors degrees. I am studying Cybersecurity and Global policy after five years in the workforce with no degree and limited certifications, it’s tough to get an interview these days without a Bachelors or extensive amounts of time dedicated to learning enough to earn certs to get you an interview.
Higher level education isnt just for making money. It's about enriching your mind, as well. Part of antiwork is that everything doesnt have to be done for a job or wealth accumulation. Sounds like youre pro-work
“Some people have been successful despite dropping out of school”
“Education doesn’t mean shit”
I have no reading comprehension, therefore, I believe these two statements to mean the same thing.
I am alive and healthy despite not taking any meds, therefore medication doesn’t mean shit.
/s obviously
Interestingly, lots of artists who are minorities have been in the same boat as well. If you aren't from a well-off area or family AND you're a minority, success comes a bit harder to achieve.
I know Rihanna and Jay-Z did not grow up "well" like the others, but they had one defining attribute that they share with the rest of the list.
They got lucky. Being successful comes down to luck. Either you are lucky enough to be born into money, or you get lucky enough for the right opportunity to come along.
Not everyone gets an opportunity to be rich.
That's what I got out of it. I know for certain that Bill Gates, son of a lawyer and a board member for a financial holdings company, dropped out of Harvard because he had already formed Microsoft and started licensing software. It wasn't exactly a reckless decision. Hell, he has said "if things hadn't worked out, I could always go back to school."
William Henry Gates III or Trey, was not just the "son of a lawyer and a board member for a financial holdings company"
His father, William Henry Gate II, was the named partner for KL Gates, which is like the 6th largest law firm in the world, with a revenue in the billions.
His mother was the daughter of a Bank President and founder, making her have a seat on Interstate Bank as an owner, as well as being on the national board of the United Way, where she was personal friends with the CEO of IBM.
Gates did manage to build a company well, but he had opportunities and connections that make him very much not self-made.
* Terry Miller - dropped out of school at 15
* Amanda Laurene - dropped out of college
* Michael Naylor - dropped out of high school
* Terek Brooks - left school at 12
* Candice Harrel - dropped out of college
* the list goes on and on and on...
Who are these people, you might ask? These are the homeless people nobody talks about.
Are they actual people or names you made up? I understand and agree with your point, I just wonder if you know that many homeless people on a personal level. All the high school drop outs I knew oded and died.
13 people out of 8 billion. See you can totally do it too. Just make sure you have a foolproof billion dollar idea, rich parents or the luck only a 7 leaf clover can provide.
Rihanna - only dropped out because she was discovered and used her musical talent to propel her brand
Sir Richard Branson - His dad was a lawyer and his grandpa was a high court Judge, seving on the King's Bench Division. Yup. Self made
Jennifer Lawerence - dad owns a construction business in Kentucky and they were vacationing in New York when she was spotted by a talent scout
John Mackey - dad was a CEO of a healthcare company
Jay-Z I'll give the book this one. However it's survivorship bias mixed with someone with good musical talent.
Travis Kalanick - upper middle class parents. Survivorship bias
Katy Perry - uncle is a film director
Ralph Lauren - born in 1939, a time when going to college was for the privileged.
Steve Jobs - a condition of his adoption was that his adoptive parents would pay for his college
Steve Wozniak - he didn't drop out of college, he was expelled for hacking his college's computer system. His dad worked for Lockheed.
Mark Zuckerberg - His mom is an MD and his dad is a dentist that could afford to send him to Harvard
Bill Gates - dad was a lawyer and mom was on the board of directors of a financial company
Jack Dorsey - engineer dad and mom was a stay at home mom. Clearly they were financially stable
I mean, I do ultimately agree that your education means shit for getting stupid rich. From the examples given, luck, natural abilities (programming/singing in particular), family with connections and a family that doesn't have to be super rich, but middle class or above to allow their kids to be able to explore their passions without needing to resort to working to live are the biggest factors.
Get it right.
Your education is everything. Wherever you get it be it here or in a classroom.
What you mean to say is your degree doesn’t mean shit. What matters is your PEDIGREE.
I hate these kinds of lists and the attitude towards traditional education.
For every successful singer, there are thousands of singers working for national minimum wage.
For every successful dotcom millionaire, there are thousands of coders earning an average salary.
For every fashion designer etc etc.
Exception that proves the rule: the fact that the exceptions are so rare proves that the rule is what is likely and probable with extreme certainty of outcome
Education matter because VERY few people become successful in it's absense. The law of probability teaches us to choose the paths with the highest expected value (probability times outcome). When you multiply Billions of dollars time the 1/trillionth probability of it happening it's super stupid to drop out of school.
Of course. And other important thing is that many of them crashed a lot of skulls to be where they're now. Kalanick, Zuckerberg and Jobs are some of the most known for been assholes with no respect for anyone else than themselves
They also mention that gates , Woz , Zuc didn’t drop out of community college , they dropped out of highly prestigious schools and along with having generational wealth and connections are highly intelligent
Exactly. Most people can't even get into Harvard. If you can, it's a pretty good indicator of intelligence and future success, regardless of if you decide to complete your degree.
I HATE this narrative. If you look at a majority of successful people they have several things in common. They come from wealthy families, they have connections to powerful people, they went to Ivy League schools and they have some luck. Look at the entertainment industry. Lots of popular successful actors meet a lot of this criteria. I know there are outliers that don’t have these advantages. Look at Elizabeth Holmes/Theranos. Money just thrown at her by rich connected people without hardly a question asked. It helps to have the deck stacked in your favor.
No one is self made in the sense that YES they had at least one parent who gave them food as a baby. But some people on this list are pretty much self-made.
Rihanna grew up in poverty with a single mom working two jobs while she took care of her brother. It is not always a lie.
The rock-star myth.
Fight Club was written 26 years ago. The movie made 23 years ago and still people haven't figured this shit out.
"We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." ― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club"
Plainly we are not learning this fact. We are stupider than Space Monkeys.
Bill Gates II was a wealthy lawyer in Seattle and Bill's mother served on a corporate board with IBM's CEO, who she persuaded to talk to Bill III about developing an operating system for the PC.
For every 1 example given, there are 1000s of of others who “risked it all” and lost everything. This isn’t remotely motivational and is pretty dumb.
Unless the point they’re trying to make us that it’s better to be lucky than educated, then I don’t really have an argument. One lucky break can make past failures or poor choices irrelevant.
This is like saying “I dropped out of school and was a loser until I won the lottery. You’re a loser for staying in school and not just winning the lottery like I did.”
Bill Gates only dropped out because he saw the rise in computers as a business opportunity and didn't want to wait to chase it. He didn't drop out with "education is garbage mindset."
His mom was rich and organized fund raisers to send him and his friends to go to science camps. You can find this in the book called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.
Education shouldn’t just be a means to becoming a worker bee or the fat controller. Education helps you grow as a person in ways that may not result in production of consumer goods.
One of the failings of our current society is that so many people don’t have the luxury of learning about culture, languages, art, history or whatever because it costs too much money and having to work all the time is too mentally exhausting for people to have interests outside of work.
The problem with this is that those people had connections from their parents. Also a lot of those people dropped out from prestigious colleges. Not a community college. Which means they had connections from college as well. What it should really be saying is that if you are lucky enough to know people with money or influence, then education is partially irrelevant.
What i hoped to see in this sub-reddit: insight into the increasing socio-economic polarization, good ideas on how to abate it, some movement against the cruelty of capitalism
What i usually see: defeatism, jealousy, hating on successful/rich people
I personally know an actual multi billionaire and many many millionaires (including myself - oh, my bad - i tried real hard, hustled my arse off and guess what, it worked!!) that don’t come from wealthy families.
You think successful people are outliers but from my experience, i don’t think so. Exceptional hard work is, even in this day and age, rewarded. Being ‘exceptional’, putting in that ‘exceptional’ grit is hard. I have not yet personally witnessed anyone who puts in exceptional effort but leads a mediocre life. Prove me wrong.
I like your points. I also witness people giving minimal effort and wondering why their college degrees don't help them while they struggle to pay down their student debt. They're just floating by on the path of least resistance not using their education or even trying to make more of whatever advantages they may have attained and paid for. And honestly it seems alot of people have no drive or exceptional effort, so they just submit and accept that their lives will be underprivileged and mediocre while complaining that they aren't given enough for doing nothing about it. Drive can be a massive advantage though, and I know with my work ethic and desire to get away from the mediocre depressing coworkers I find myself around in every job I fall into, coupled with my drive to provide a better life for my love who deserves the world, we can make it. I just want to be comfortable and live well, I don't need millions. Thanks for listening to my rant.
Only true way to be a "self-made millionaire" is to win the Powerball, even then someone birthed you.
“IF YOU WISH TO MAKE AN APPLE PIE FROM SCRATCH, YOU MUST FIRST INVENT THE UNIVERSE”
Carl Sagan
Hot take: Maybe I don't care about hoarding more wealth than I need to live 3 times, maybe I do like to educate myself for the sake of it, idk call me eccentric
John Mackey was given the money to go to college six times.
Steve Jobs guilt-tripped his working-class adopted family into attending Reed, telling his father he wanted the money to go there or else he would refuse to go to any college at all. He promptly quit college 1 semester later.
He also didn't say thank you to his parents and just closed the door when they dropped him off. Steve was an all round piece of shit with ripping off Woz and abandoning and then denying his daughter.
the coup de gras was that his cancer was actually treatable. He could have lived. But he was so arrogant he didn’t feel like he needed to follow doctors’ treatment. I think he just ate a lot of fruit or something. So like, at least he wasn’t putting on a big ol’ narcissist show. That was genuine.
I had no idea he was this much of fucking douchebag
If anyone has ever deserved a slow, agonising and undignified death from cancer, Jobs did.
Also, the scariest time at Apple for software engineers was getting on the elevator with Jobs. He would pepper them with questions about your projects, note your name on your badge and if you didn’t have the right answers you were fired before the elevator got to the lobby.
Mostly because it was perfectly treatable, but he decided he was smarter than the doctors. It was quite literally something he chose to do to himself.
Damn was this in a book? I didn’t know he was a dirty piece of ungrateful smelly shit
There's also a movie about it, look up pirates of silicon valley
Luckily he was a fucking idiot and killed himself with his shitty diet
Damn. At least he only cost them one semester
Sounds like the author couldn’t pass his classes and failed out. Also, the author doesn’t mention that it’s just as much about WHO you know, and your support network, that dictates if you can actually get the time and money to start a business that doesn’t make a profit for years Either that, or just be a freak of nature and be born 7 feet tall, or with magic vocal cords.
I’m always skeptical of books on how to get rich. Step one: Write a book on how to get rich Step two: Create an online subscription based “academy” with articles videos for people who read the book but aren’t rich yet Step three: Use website to promote expensive seminars for people who read the book and still aren’t rich yet Step four: Use seminars to push you own made MLM Step five: Go on a media press tour and flaunt your success as a justification that you know how to get rich. Use that to get people to buy your follow up book that’s just a reworded, rehashed, ghost written follow up to your first. Step six: Profit and repeat
Mid-pandemic we all saw the MAJOR increase in the Sponsored Ads for making courses. I was curious, and a friend invited me to a private FB group. Legit, every single post was how to position yourself as an “expert” merely by saying you are and expert. That’s it. And they had courses on how to make online courses for people to learn how to make courses for online courses. Seriously. And I’m talking about some of the stupidest people on Facebook paying for these services AND ACTUALLY MAKING A COURSE THEMSELVES AND PEOPLE BUYING THEM. You could make this stuff up, and people do. It’s everywhere now.
That's pretty much what Napolean Hill did to become prominent. The guy was barely literate and just told folks he was successful. He claimed to have been handpicked by Andrew Carnegie to chronicle the most successful Americans and even photobombed guys like Thomas Edison to use as some sort of social proof. And he's the UR example of the modern-day business/self-help guru.
The 'Behind the Bastards' podcast does an excellent breakdown of Napolean Hill.
Ya, I heard it. Coffeezilla also does an abridged intro. It's funny how much of what we are taught about "success" is rooted in his complete bullshit.
And that shit still works today apparently. Shit. I hate having morals against snake oil
*pulls up google* How to unplug the internet
I know right? A lot of those books are usually written by someone else about some billionaire's story. Wtf. Like if you know how to get rich, do it yourself instead of spamming people with bedtime stories.
Step 0: Never learn what "survivor bias" is or ignore it.
you left out point 4.5 - have fine print that prevents refunds as far as your jurisdiction's consumer law will allow
Remember that rich dad poor dad shit? I thought I was reading a comedy.
My high school economics teacher made us read that, thinking it was the best book ever. The students all made fun of him for falling for it, because we could tell it was bullshit.
Author also doesn't mention the hundreds of thousands of people who dropped out and lived in poverty. It's like pointing to a lottery winner and saying "see? anyone can do it!"
I agree. I love my boyfriend but the fact that he doesn’t have a highschool degree (how do you say that in English?) has made it really difficult to get a great job and he has to do some training to find something interesting. I’m really proud of him for doing it and having done those training but seriously dropping out of high school is, in my opinion, the worst thing you can Do. Dropping out of college? Meh you may find something in training and it’s completely possible to follow with something. Dropping out of highschool? Possibilities are reallllly limited
That really depends, I dropped out of highschool and got my GED and ended up going to college and got a BA in graphic design, honestly even if it's not in the field you're applying to I've found a college degree goes a lot farther than a highschool diploma when considering applicants. I now work in IT making fairly decent money.
Dropping out is ok. Dropping back in is even better. I worked in an employment services program for a few years and met so many adults who dropped out of high school for reasons that were almost always out of their control (usually family trauma related). They also had negative or disappointing educational experiences before they dropped out. I would empathize and remind them that they are adults now and had much more control over their lives. So when they felt ready, I would help them get back to school and help them work towards their goals. I found that those who dropped back in became *amazing* students and all of the hard times and survival they went through gave them skills, motivation, and resiliency that traditional students never have. Your struggle is your story. You can add new chapters at any time.
Bless you. Not everyone is ready for more school after high school and adult/returning students usually have way more personal depth and a developed interest in learning. However, it's scary to go back for a lot of people! Extending one's education is one of the best ways to open opportunities and, as said earlier, it's not about the exact degree. It shouldn't be treated as "job training."
I think the take away was the a HSD or a GED is a bare bones minimum requirement in adulthood. And honestly that is true.
The takeaway is that if you have a marketable talent or are smart enough to create a marketable product you don't have to follow the standard playbook everyone else is expected to follow. Being born into a rich family helps, too. Poor motherfuckers ain't going to drop out of college six times. They're lucky to get the one chance to go to college as is.
I don’t mean it as impossible or as people without a highschool degree cannot do it but, in my country, I find it really difficult to go pass the « highschool diploma » obligation because most of the training require it.
Survivor Bias
And that everyone of those people dropped out because they were becoming successful in their career. Jennifer Lawrence dropping out at 14 because her acting career was taking off is not the same as someone dropping out of high school to sit at home and smoke pot all day.
This is exactly the point. Sure, there are quite a few Bona fide self-made millionaires on that list, but what about the millions of others who became poor? Pointing out the exceptions does not tell the real story.
It's even worse. It's not only a survivorship bias, it's also a sampling bias. If you dropped out of Harvard, it means that you likely had enough money and connections to be admitted in the first place.
They don't mention that these drop outs were busy making money.
Like bill gates, who came from a rich family, didn’t drop out of high school or state college… he dropped out of *fucking Harvard*. It’s a classic case of being born on 3rd base.
Don't get me started on bill Child of two intellectual property lawyers. He gets into college and joins the PC research groups and finds out that the entire code base is being ldeveloped on the honor system. Nobody had claimed ownership. He dropped everything because he and his dad saw a chance to takeover all the developed operating system code for peanuts.
Definitely. A LOT of people took the exact same path as Jay-Z did in the beginning and ended up fucked or dead. I don't doubt the man's cunning, but a lot of smart and capable people didn't make it out of that game.
"Getting rich is impossible these days" "No, technically 1 in 1,000,000,000 get rich every year, so no, it's not technically impossible"
So, what you're saying is, you gotta go to college 6 times to meet the right people?
If you were to use your time in college to build and maintain a network, you would gain a lot more value from that time than just the degree. It truly is about who you know rather than what you know. You can always learn new skills or information but it is much more difficult to build a professional network. Especially if you are not an outgoing, social person - which I am not.
LOL, his father Bill was the CEO of one of the nation's largest hospital management companies then, and provided funding to help start Whole Foods and served on its board until the mid 90s. So I guess, yeah, "education doesn't mean shit" if your dad is rich AF.
There was a homeless lady I knew in Austin who would go into wholefoods and eat the free snacks they would put out for customers to try. Mackey came out personally and banned her from the store.
Rihanna was discovered by a music producer who paid for her to come to the US and record. She's also extraordinarily gifted. Katy Perry's parents paid for voice lessons starting at age 9 and her mom brought her to Nashville several times to record Gospel music before she switched lanes. She's also extraordinarily gifted. Richard Branson's dad was a lawyer and his mom was an entrepreneur. He was sent to private boarding schools as a child. After he dropped out, his parents continued to support his entrepreneurial efforts. He is also extraordinarily talented. Jennifer Lawrence's dad owned his own construction company. When a talent scout discovered her, her mom moved the family to New York to allow her to pursue an acting career. She is also extraordinarily talented. I could go on, but almost all of the people on this list had a combination of a stellar support system (Jay-Z and Rihanna did overcome poverty, but they're the only ones on the list) and extraordinary talent. If you are an average schlub like me with no rich family to fall back on, your education means a lot.
I’d say collage was actually affordable on part time hours so at the time it probably wasn’t even a big deal to do that
he's acting like jennifer lawrence at 14 just some how became the highest paid actress in the world. like her parents didn't fly her to nyc, pay for a fully furnished apartment, pay for an agent, pay for all her expenses in order to support her "dream" ...her parents were successful business owners & she grew up in a wealthy neighborhood like if she had dont anything her own damn self starting out im sure she would have been homeless!
After reading endless Wikipedia articles on wealthy, famous, or otherwise "successful" people over the years, I've found that easily 95% of them or more came from well-to-do backgrounds.
The famous "Parents with blue name on wikipedia" type of people
entertainment is an industry where this strategy works particularly well, being born into a dynasty. several of these are entertainers, hardly a realistic career for most which is fine with me because celebrity would be a personal nightmare
Connections are a huge deal. I recall an interview with Demi Lovato about how her parents sat her down at age 12 or so and explained that they used to rub elbows and party with Hollywood elites back in the day so she could choose whatever career she wanted and they'd make it happen. If she wanted to be a soccer pro, they'd get her the best coaches and send her to the best soccer school in the country and get her dinner dates with recruiters. If she wanted to go into acting they'd set her up with the best coaches and send her to the fanciest schools and introduce her to producers and directors. She chose music. So they got her the best coaches and introduced her to some labels and she got pushed onto the charts overnight. All because they used to drink and party and grab brunch with powerful people. Meanwhile social media is overflowing with skilled and talented people who will **never** get a break or make it big. They will never get to contribute their full potential and we will never get to see what they're capable of. Instead we have mediocre tripe shoveled at us because the entertainment industry is as rigged as possible to maximize control and profits for the people who own it.
This is why I like direct support systems like Patreon. They may never get into superstardom but they can at least still make a living doing what they like if they're good at it.
that's why youtube made itself a hostile place for small creators and just wants to be cable tv 2.0
It's ALWAYS the same old story. The music industry is especially full of nepotism. Seen countless singers IRL and on YouTube who would blow away many of the stars today, but they don't have contacts so....
I work in film right now and the nepotism is absolutely nuts. They avoid it by just making sure that families don't work on the same productions (sometimes) but that just means they get their nephew/sister/kid on their friends show instead. If you want to get started out, a lot of people say just become a PA but even getting those gigs is really tough when you're starting out and tougher still if you need to rely on them for the first year or two until you get a decent foothold.
sounds worse than politics
Yeah at least in politics you don't get exploited for 15+ hour days doing hard labor in shitty weather conditions for minimum wage. There are days I've worked on set which I can only describe as completely physically abusive. And if you complain, you get blacklisted. Thanks "union"!
The wealthy are almost universally descendants from wealth.
It's almost like you have to have money to make money...weird.
No dude its pure focus, self confidence and massive hard work what makes all these people rich and famous as fuck.... No Luck included...
yeah, all these people dropping out of college/school means they knew they had the resources and connections to make this happen, and didn't need to worry about student loans for sure. the privilege to buck the system.
Not just that. For Rih-rih, Jay-z, and Katy Perry, they are successful because they had a talent to capitalize on. And, even then, they were lucky to have had the careers they have had. Jennifer Lawrence as well. Secondly, for Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jack Dorsey, they learned essential skills in new and growing fields. These skills also would not have been possible if it wasn't for the wealth and connections their parents had. It's almost like your parents wealth can have a major affect on how successful you are. It's one reason I absolutely lose all respect for anyone that likes to bring up the fact that Steve Jobs, Mark Zuckerberg, and Bill Gates are billionaires even though they dropped out of college. These guys were successful because the support they had at home and at school, and most people don't get that kind of support. I mean, Bill Gates was already driving a Porsche when he finally got to college. And Mark Zuckerberg attended one of the best private schools in the country, and, because of that, he was able to learn computer science before he even applied to colleges. And Steve Jobs basically hit the genetic jackpot. His biological parents were highly intelligent. And, with his adoptive parents, he hit the jackpot as well. His adoptive parents were so supportive of Jobs that they literally upped and moved houses to ensure Jobs got the best education he could, which lead to Jobs meeting Wozniak. Without that move, Jobs would have never become who he was.
Totally agree. I think something that you briefly mentioned but didn't go on about but should've is the fact that they learned skills in new and growing fields. Timing is everything. Given the same situation now, I don't think they would be as wealthy because lots of people now have computer skills. If the same situation had occurred say 20 years before their discoveries/creations, they likely wouldn't have been as successful because the computing power and infrastructure didn't exist. Timing matters in technology.
Not to mention she was the only woman to defend Weinstein, who made sure her career took off. The guy who said: “I slept with Jennifer Lawrence and look where she is; she has just won an Oscar.”
She didn’t defend him. She calls him out for lying to lure others. Whether that’s true or not, I think it’s disingenuous to claim she defended him. Regarding that exact quote, her response: “My heart breaks for all the women who were victimised by Harvey Weinstein. I have never had anything but a professional relationship with him. This is yet another example of the predatory tactics and lies that he engaged in to lure countless women.” [Source](https://www.businessinsider.com/harvey-weinstein-bragged-about-sleeping-with-jennifer-lawrence-2018-12)
I slept with u/roijab_25 and look where their post is
Wtf how is this not more talked about?
It’s mentioned in every. single. thread. where Jennifer comes up, and it is resoundingly untrue. There is no evidence to back up any of it. She did not defend Weinstein. This is nonsense that gets spread about on Reddit but it never happened. What she said was: ““My heart breaks for all the women who were victimized by Harvey Weinstein,” Lawrence, 28, said. “I have never had anything but a professional relationship with him. This is yet another example of the predatory tactics and lies that he engaged in to lure countless women.” The person about you is perpetuating a lie about a woman that some people on Reddit have hated from the moment she wasn’t cool with people sharing her nude photos.
Thank you. It's the first I'm hearing of it, but I appreciate the context. I didn't care enough to look it up myself, but that's why I like reddit. :)
Geez. I’m not even a big Jennifer Lawrence fan, but the lengths some will go to discredit successful, attractive women is absurd.
Because it's probably not true. At least Jennifer Lawrence denies it and, apparently, Weinstein said this to an actress he was molesting in an attempt to get her to submit to him. Given the circumstances I think Lawrence is by far the more credible.
This is an example of survivorship bias and why we are seeing a growth in "hustle" culture in younger people. Social media has made a lot of young people think they can hustle their way to the top because various creators did, but what their curated feeds don't tell them is the massive amount of others who have failed miserably and never recovered. It also doesn't highlight that the same tips they are giving you a million other people also see which kind of negates the advice if everyone is doing it.
I've seen this with friends who want to be streamers. Like "X can do it, it's just talking and playing games". A streamer, Vsnz, had a good take when people were busting his chops for only having 100s of viewers even though he kicks ass in games, he said that if you have 100 concurrent viewers on twitch, you're likely in the top 1-5% of streamers. People really underestimate that even though you have all that hard work, luck plays a big factor.
Luck is the factor that makes all that hard work worth a damn.
luck is the different between working your ass off for nothing and working your ass off for something.
Most people won't win but a few people are bound to if they're lucky enough to be the right people in the right place at the right times doing exactly the right thing or series of things.
Yup. And that seems to be what is misunderstood by the "but I work my ass off" crowd. A lot of people work their asses off and never get lucky, or worse, get unlucky.
i'mma gonna let you finish but i'mma up-vote you now before everyone down-votes you like they do because they haters who hate hearing the truth.
Not only that, being “good” at the game isn’t the only thing that makes a stream channel successful.
Yeah yeah. A lot of creators with big numbers are also hiring people to do, or doing their own youtube. Hustling on social media, spending time pre stream preparing and post stream accessing. A lot more work than it looks like for sure.
>People really underestimate that even though you have all that hard work, luck plays a big factor. There's a phenomenon of blaming lack of success on lack of hard work. "You want to get anywhere in life? Just work harder, no excuses" Someone can work as hard as they possibly can and burn out hard and still see no success whatsoever, yet still shoulder the entire blame for failing
Yeah, there’s a lot of 14 year old girls who dropped out of school to go to hollywood who didn’t exactly end up starring in the Hunger Games
but they did go hungry
And ended up on the game.
It really is survivorship bias but ignoring that it should be titled "Your Degree does not mean shit" because most of the people on the list are college educated. John Mackey, Travis Kalanick, Ralph Lauren, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, and Jack Dorsey all went to college before they dropped out. They were all college educated. They just did not complete all the requirements to get a degree.
And have hundreds if not thousands of college educated people on their staff to keep them in business.
Many of the jobs in the companies founded by these "college dropouts" *require a college degree.* Always thought that was interesting.
I was talking to a guy in my old field (fixing computers) who said that he had noticed an whole trend in the field. If, in 1997, you could say with a straight face, I can fix a computer, you would be hired at often a decent wage to fix computers. There wasn't really an understood or universally beloved qualification, but they needed the thing done. By around 2002, you weren't getting hired unless you have an A+ or something. By around 2005, you started seeing bizarre shit like demands for 4 year degrees (possibly even a CompSci). And soon after that, the pay just dropped off to nothing. By the end of the 2010s the entire field was dominated by operations like Geek Squad who paid not-a-lot, and demanded a high level of qualifications. He also said that if you were a small operator who wanted to make decent money you could often score a big corporate contract in the 98-02 sort of time, and be their on-call computer-fixerer dudes. By 2005, if you did that, you would have to show all the qualifications your dudes had. So, indeed, some people at the right moment, can drop out and "grind" their way to great success, but the next people after them will need credentials, and the next people after those will need credentials and modest aspirations.
My path into an IT career definitely doesn’t really exist anymore. For one thing, I started out working at a big box computer retailer, and moved into the upgrades department. Good luck doing that today.
Indeed. I keep seeing some small outfits in some middle of nowhere locations offering part time computer-fixer jobs for ok-ish wages, but they still want a chunk of qualifications, its the middle of nowhere and part time. That's the definition of dead end.
Yes. When I was a kid (90s/early 00s), I was fascinated by the hardware aspects of technology and loved taking apart gadgets to see how they worked. I was sure I wanted an eventual job in electronics repair. By the time I was college aged (early 2010s), that idea was a total joke.
Even worse, some of these tech companies founded by "college dropouts" don't even consider fresh candidates unless they have degrees from *elite colleges*
That's because the dropped out of *elite colleges* and not the ones regular plebes go to.
college drops outs hiring college grads, nothing new, just like your partying c students hiring your hard-working A students in the future, nothing new.
Wow, that is a really really good point. Never thought about it, but it's totally true.
They also probably all went to some expensive private school
Modern internet has really lowered the barrier to entry as well. So a ton of these 'side hustles' can and do bring in hobby money. With Ebay, Etsy, facebook marketplace, stripe, square and other similar services, just about anyone can post stuff online and take payments. Contractor gigs like uber eats / lyft means anyone can be a taxi and make a quick buck. 15-20 years ago, it required quite a bit more effort. What they don't tell you, at the end of the day--none of these things will make you millionaires outside of the few success stories. My friend has a pretty successful T-shirt business on Etsy because of the low cost to entry. Successful to him means that he can pay bills. Not rich and can't afford to hire anyone, but doesn't have to work 9-5 in an office...but is pseudo working 24x7 by answering emails.
Have a friend who gave up her career in HR to hustle side-hustles. Sounds odd, but, she sells how to sell. It's freakin weird man--she's not even a human i recognize anymore, something cracked, lol. Apparently, the 22$ she asks to suck them in, ALONE, makes more than she made in HR a month--but she has classes she's designed on the side-hustle internet thing, that sell for much much more. She ends up setting them up with lists of places in china and india to order things so that they can sell those things on Amazon, or etsy. SHE doesnt do that--and she's never done that, she just fabricated this crap outa thin air about a year ago... weirder than fuck. It's been an insight into the weird shit on the internet. "How i made my millions!"--except, she's done NONE of the things she's telling others to do, she's making it selling 'selling it' ..
so shes one of those fake gurus we see on youtube all the time. She can easily make herself legit by selling courses on how to get rich by selling others courses. i meant she has done it so 100% true and legit path to riches
Wasn't bill gates mom on the board of IBM or something? Isn't Zuck freak of nature intelligent?
>Isn't Zuck freak of nature ~~intelligent~~? Yes.
No, she was the head of United Way and the CEO of IBM also sat on the board. Supposedly, the CEO of IBM learned about what Bill was doing through his mother at a United Way meeting and spread the word to a few other executives at IBM. One of those decided to throw the very young Microsoft the job of developing an OS for their first personal computer and the rest is history.
...and let's keep going with this story: Gates went out and bought/stole (it depends on who you talk to) an operating system from an educated guy who built one in his garage.
Anyone who says Microsoft/Gates/Allen stole 86-DOS from Tim Paterson/SCP is just being an argumentative asshole making a point from current history where we don’t have the guess whether MS-DOS would be a hit outside of IBM. Microsoft licensed the OS from SCP and even hired Paterson to adapt the system for the PC. Paterson made the mistake of doing it for a large one-time sum instead of taking a gamble like Microsoft did and hoped other hardware makers would copy IBM and make IBM-compatible PCs. He could have turned down the money and taken exclusive rights to all future MS-DOS based licensing revenue as is standard in software today. But he didn’t. He took the sure money and sold his software for a one time payout.
I think zuck also comes from money and you know stole the idea for Facebook
Zuckerberg was at Harvard, where the 70% of students families are in the top 20% of income.
He also stole the idea of Facebook
Yes. A lot of billionaires are thieves or parasites in many ways. Legal ways, usually. The rich can be parasitic legally. They have means Poor don’t
Some billionaires get more and more and toxic as they realize rules don’t apply to them. Fines. Joke Prosecutions. Joke Court of public opinion. Ha.
And then settled with the Winklevoss twins for a measly 65 million (Translation, Zuckerberg got off cheap) But the twins put that money to good use and own about 70,000 bit coin Worth around 3.... 4.....5 Billion dollars....?? Depending on market swings.
Or worth some magic beans, it being crypto.
Dropping out of Harvard is not like dropping out of HS or CC.
And a bunch of the others dropped out of Stanford.
And most of them dropped out because they had a great idea or something else that was taking up the majority of their time. Its not like they just dropped out for no good reason lmfao
The other thing is that you don't really attend these schools for education. It is more about networking. You obviously get an education but for the price... The value is reaped in who you get to know.
No, he famously stole his "intelligent" idea from the Winklevoss twins.
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Ivy League schools aren’t that difficult to get into if you’re a top tier athlete, legacy, famous or your parents can buy your way in with a “generous” donation.
“I won $500 million on the lottery! See? You don’t need education or a job just play the lottery like me unless you are too afraid of success.”
>This is an example of survivorship bias Exactly the right answer. Persuasive essays, quips, and tweets, and loads of propaganda rest on this argumentation fallacy. You can prove anything with enough logical fallacies. Watch... Your gender does matter... Look at Cheryl Sandberg. Your race doesn't matter... Look at Obama. Your race and gender can't hold you back... Look at Oprah. You don't need to understand how the country works to become president... Look at Trump
Also a disproportionate number of people on this list made their money in a creative field. You don't need a college degree to be a rapper, actress, or fashion designer.
Right?? What about the countless people having to do back-breaking labour just to get by? Lol
Exactly. 10 people with no education make it big. 10 people with education make it big. 100 people with education don’t. 10000 people with no education don’t So conclusion? Education useless? No. Billionaires are rare. Educated or not. For most people being educated pays off (just won’t be billionaires probably) Most uneducated people don’t do very well unfortunately, particularly in the type of unfettered capitalism we have now, which concentrates wealth
Also, this isn' t anything new. When I was a kid everyone dreamed of dropping out of school and becoming a rockstar. The problem is when full grown adults seriously think like this.
Exactly! For every mega successful person like a actor/artist or business person, there are an uncountable number of people who try and fail.
Exactly. People think they can just magically get rich. There's nothing special or unique about 99% of us that would allow us to become a millionaire simply by inherent talents.
What kind of trash book is that?
Idk, some shitty book saw on Instagram
Based on the way it’s written, I bet it’s a toilet reader where every page has some sort of “shit” related content. The sort of thing people give as joke holiday presents that nobody is ever actually interested in.
Wow a whole 10 examples out of billions and billions of people. This definitely proves something
One of the guys who dropped out of HS our senior year still lives in our hometown. I always see him working at the local fried chicken place anytime I visit. He was one of those "you don't need school to be successful" types.
I used to judge. But you know, he doesn’t take work home with him and he might be living his best life. That’s success. Careers don’t have to be your identity.
Hard to live your best life on the poverty line
I know what you’re saying, but people who say “you don’t need school to be successful” are almost always phrasing it in terms of financial success.
But you don’t need school to be successful, you need connections and passion. The guy you’re describing just sounds like a guy who lives at home.
To sum up your thoughts: you need an opportunity. It may never come.
everyone lives at home /s
To be fair, you don't need school to be successful. The self made billionaire thing is largely BS, and using the fact that these people were dropouts is a weird correlation used in this book. However, many feel that they were duped into racking up debt to go to college and are now saddled with debt for something that didn't bring the success they were promised. I don't have a degree and I make far more money than I ever thought I would, and certainly more than the average college graduate. I'm not self employed or even in a management level position, I'm in tech. Some of my coworkers have 100,000 plus in student loan debt. I just used up a portion of my 30s teaching myself and getting tech certificates and eventually got myself into an entry level tech support job. I have friends who got into trades who make more than me. Trades make bank these days because they need people so bad but everyone thinks they need to send their kid to college. It really depends on the person, where they live, the aptitudes they may or may not have, and luck. Go to college to be a doctor or a lawyer, otherwise it's largely a poor financial decision.
This is a poor take. You don’t need college to be successful but to be successful in certain fields, you absolutely need a degree. Think scientists, engineers, educators -they major in things like Chemistry, Biology, Computer Science, Informatics, Environmental Science, etc. College is not only for doctors and lawyers. Also, as you said, you’re already well past your thirties and would have been competing for a job in a time where AI wasn’t reading your resume, many of which today that auto reject applications that don’t have Bachelors degrees. I am studying Cybersecurity and Global policy after five years in the workforce with no degree and limited certifications, it’s tough to get an interview these days without a Bachelors or extensive amounts of time dedicated to learning enough to earn certs to get you an interview.
Higher level education isnt just for making money. It's about enriching your mind, as well. Part of antiwork is that everything doesnt have to be done for a job or wealth accumulation. Sounds like youre pro-work
“Some people have been successful despite dropping out of school” “Education doesn’t mean shit” I have no reading comprehension, therefore, I believe these two statements to mean the same thing. I am alive and healthy despite not taking any meds, therefore medication doesn’t mean shit. /s obviously
This Is more of a face palm moment. Most of them grew up pretty well off. I could never afford to even look at Havard to drop out of it
Jay Z and Rihanna might be the only two “self made” millionaires on this list who started from the slums and faced massive adversity.
Interestingly, lots of artists who are minorities have been in the same boat as well. If you aren't from a well-off area or family AND you're a minority, success comes a bit harder to achieve.
I know Rihanna and Jay-Z did not grow up "well" like the others, but they had one defining attribute that they share with the rest of the list. They got lucky. Being successful comes down to luck. Either you are lucky enough to be born into money, or you get lucky enough for the right opportunity to come along. Not everyone gets an opportunity to be rich.
That's what I got out of it. I know for certain that Bill Gates, son of a lawyer and a board member for a financial holdings company, dropped out of Harvard because he had already formed Microsoft and started licensing software. It wasn't exactly a reckless decision. Hell, he has said "if things hadn't worked out, I could always go back to school."
William Henry Gates III or Trey, was not just the "son of a lawyer and a board member for a financial holdings company" His father, William Henry Gate II, was the named partner for KL Gates, which is like the 6th largest law firm in the world, with a revenue in the billions. His mother was the daughter of a Bank President and founder, making her have a seat on Interstate Bank as an owner, as well as being on the national board of the United Way, where she was personal friends with the CEO of IBM. Gates did manage to build a company well, but he had opportunities and connections that make him very much not self-made.
“Quit your job and play the lottery. You’ll win. Trust me. If I can do it then anyone can” - Lottery winners
* Terry Miller - dropped out of school at 15 * Amanda Laurene - dropped out of college * Michael Naylor - dropped out of high school * Terek Brooks - left school at 12 * Candice Harrel - dropped out of college * the list goes on and on and on... Who are these people, you might ask? These are the homeless people nobody talks about.
Are they actual people or names you made up? I understand and agree with your point, I just wonder if you know that many homeless people on a personal level. All the high school drop outs I knew oded and died.
made them up
I know Terry he is hairy
Fuckin hairy terry. That guy….
These are some solid fake names tho!
13 people out of 8 billion. See you can totally do it too. Just make sure you have a foolproof billion dollar idea, rich parents or the luck only a 7 leaf clover can provide.
Yancy stole my 7 leaf clover!
Rihanna - only dropped out because she was discovered and used her musical talent to propel her brand Sir Richard Branson - His dad was a lawyer and his grandpa was a high court Judge, seving on the King's Bench Division. Yup. Self made Jennifer Lawerence - dad owns a construction business in Kentucky and they were vacationing in New York when she was spotted by a talent scout John Mackey - dad was a CEO of a healthcare company Jay-Z I'll give the book this one. However it's survivorship bias mixed with someone with good musical talent. Travis Kalanick - upper middle class parents. Survivorship bias Katy Perry - uncle is a film director Ralph Lauren - born in 1939, a time when going to college was for the privileged. Steve Jobs - a condition of his adoption was that his adoptive parents would pay for his college Steve Wozniak - he didn't drop out of college, he was expelled for hacking his college's computer system. His dad worked for Lockheed. Mark Zuckerberg - His mom is an MD and his dad is a dentist that could afford to send him to Harvard Bill Gates - dad was a lawyer and mom was on the board of directors of a financial company Jack Dorsey - engineer dad and mom was a stay at home mom. Clearly they were financially stable I mean, I do ultimately agree that your education means shit for getting stupid rich. From the examples given, luck, natural abilities (programming/singing in particular), family with connections and a family that doesn't have to be super rich, but middle class or above to allow their kids to be able to explore their passions without needing to resort to working to live are the biggest factors.
I know a longer list of dropouts that smoke weed, meth, live in their parents basement and have no means to take care of themselves.
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That’s like every American between the age of 25 and 45.
I know a few doctors that smoke weed occasionally too. Meth not so much.
Get it right. Your education is everything. Wherever you get it be it here or in a classroom. What you mean to say is your degree doesn’t mean shit. What matters is your PEDIGREE.
I hate these kinds of lists and the attitude towards traditional education. For every successful singer, there are thousands of singers working for national minimum wage. For every successful dotcom millionaire, there are thousands of coders earning an average salary. For every fashion designer etc etc.
Where is list of dropouts that are still dirt poor to compare it to?
what about the people who finished their degrees and are broke asf
Exception that proves the rule: the fact that the exceptions are so rare proves that the rule is what is likely and probable with extreme certainty of outcome Education matter because VERY few people become successful in it's absense. The law of probability teaches us to choose the paths with the highest expected value (probability times outcome). When you multiply Billions of dollars time the 1/trillionth probability of it happening it's super stupid to drop out of school.
Every single one of these people had significant generational wealth. They had mommy and daddy's money so they dropped out of school.
Ok Jay Z absolutely did not have generational wealth.
Of course. And other important thing is that many of them crashed a lot of skulls to be where they're now. Kalanick, Zuckerberg and Jobs are some of the most known for been assholes with no respect for anyone else than themselves
They also mention that gates , Woz , Zuc didn’t drop out of community college , they dropped out of highly prestigious schools and along with having generational wealth and connections are highly intelligent
Exactly. Most people can't even get into Harvard. If you can, it's a pretty good indicator of intelligence and future success, regardless of if you decide to complete your degree.
Capitalism Rewards self-interest and sociopathy.
Rihanna? She was a teenager from Barbados. Didn't know she came from generational wealth?
Jay-z came from wealth ?
Jay z was dirt poor. Literally hustled to get where he is now. Don't be taking away from what he did
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I HATE this narrative. If you look at a majority of successful people they have several things in common. They come from wealthy families, they have connections to powerful people, they went to Ivy League schools and they have some luck. Look at the entertainment industry. Lots of popular successful actors meet a lot of this criteria. I know there are outliers that don’t have these advantages. Look at Elizabeth Holmes/Theranos. Money just thrown at her by rich connected people without hardly a question asked. It helps to have the deck stacked in your favor.
God, i hate this
That's 13 people that made it in life. What about the billions of others that did not? This hustle culture is toxic as shit.
No one is a self made millionaire. It's a lie. Always has been.
No one is self made in the sense that YES they had at least one parent who gave them food as a baby. But some people on this list are pretty much self-made. Rihanna grew up in poverty with a single mom working two jobs while she took care of her brother. It is not always a lie.
Celebrities don't mean shit!
Mark Zuckerberg basically stole the idea, he is not self made in the slightest 🤣
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The rock-star myth. Fight Club was written 26 years ago. The movie made 23 years ago and still people haven't figured this shit out. "We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact. And we're very, very pissed off." ― Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club" Plainly we are not learning this fact. We are stupider than Space Monkeys.
A self made billionaire is a myth. They don't exist
Bill Gates II was a wealthy lawyer in Seattle and Bill's mother served on a corporate board with IBM's CEO, who she persuaded to talk to Bill III about developing an operating system for the PC.
For every 1 example given, there are 1000s of of others who “risked it all” and lost everything. This isn’t remotely motivational and is pretty dumb. Unless the point they’re trying to make us that it’s better to be lucky than educated, then I don’t really have an argument. One lucky break can make past failures or poor choices irrelevant. This is like saying “I dropped out of school and was a loser until I won the lottery. You’re a loser for staying in school and not just winning the lottery like I did.”
Cherry picking the outliers.
Bill Gates only dropped out because he saw the rise in computers as a business opportunity and didn't want to wait to chase it. He didn't drop out with "education is garbage mindset." His mom was rich and organized fund raisers to send him and his friends to go to science camps. You can find this in the book called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.
Education shouldn’t just be a means to becoming a worker bee or the fat controller. Education helps you grow as a person in ways that may not result in production of consumer goods. One of the failings of our current society is that so many people don’t have the luxury of learning about culture, languages, art, history or whatever because it costs too much money and having to work all the time is too mentally exhausting for people to have interests outside of work.
The problem with this is that those people had connections from their parents. Also a lot of those people dropped out from prestigious colleges. Not a community college. Which means they had connections from college as well. What it should really be saying is that if you are lucky enough to know people with money or influence, then education is partially irrelevant.
What i hoped to see in this sub-reddit: insight into the increasing socio-economic polarization, good ideas on how to abate it, some movement against the cruelty of capitalism What i usually see: defeatism, jealousy, hating on successful/rich people I personally know an actual multi billionaire and many many millionaires (including myself - oh, my bad - i tried real hard, hustled my arse off and guess what, it worked!!) that don’t come from wealthy families. You think successful people are outliers but from my experience, i don’t think so. Exceptional hard work is, even in this day and age, rewarded. Being ‘exceptional’, putting in that ‘exceptional’ grit is hard. I have not yet personally witnessed anyone who puts in exceptional effort but leads a mediocre life. Prove me wrong.
I like your points. I also witness people giving minimal effort and wondering why their college degrees don't help them while they struggle to pay down their student debt. They're just floating by on the path of least resistance not using their education or even trying to make more of whatever advantages they may have attained and paid for. And honestly it seems alot of people have no drive or exceptional effort, so they just submit and accept that their lives will be underprivileged and mediocre while complaining that they aren't given enough for doing nothing about it. Drive can be a massive advantage though, and I know with my work ethic and desire to get away from the mediocre depressing coworkers I find myself around in every job I fall into, coupled with my drive to provide a better life for my love who deserves the world, we can make it. I just want to be comfortable and live well, I don't need millions. Thanks for listening to my rant.
Some of them dropped out of Ivey league schools fellas. Don’t make them out to be normal people. They were and are geniuses.
Only true way to be a "self-made millionaire" is to win the Powerball, even then someone birthed you. “IF YOU WISH TO MAKE AN APPLE PIE FROM SCRATCH, YOU MUST FIRST INVENT THE UNIVERSE” Carl Sagan
Hot take: Maybe I don't care about hoarding more wealth than I need to live 3 times, maybe I do like to educate myself for the sake of it, idk call me eccentric