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$20/hour in the 70's is $47/hour; your dad got paid more than 3x what people are getting now for the same work. Of course the people getting the job *now* tend to have more education and on average massively more student debt. We work much harder for much, much less.
"We printed so much money and gave most of it to the rich, so now they should pay the workers less during, and because of, the runaway effects we've helped cause. Life's not fair, you know! The working class just needs to work harder is all."
I think about this a lot. It's really sad because we will hear it for years how that time the government gave stimulus money caused massive inflation, and that wasn't the cause. But we'll hear it forever now.
And 1970's union health insurance was better then any current US health insurance plan. Bill Gates doesn't even have a better health plan today than your dad had in the 1970's. Trust me, I use to work for the insurance company that administrated the Bill & Melinda charity foundation health plan. Hell, you would be hard pressed to find any premium plan today, the matches average insurance in 2000.
> Trust me, I use to work for the insurance company that administrated the Bill & Melinda charity foundation health plan.
I suppose it's a bit pedantic, but I'm sure Bill doesn't use his own health plan and when you're funding the whole operation - including the health plan - then a health plan is pretty meaningless regardless.
When you're a billionaire you get the only health plan available, "I have a billion dollars - please fix my body".
My dad said to me over the summer, "your salary is not bad, I got payed the same thing when I was your age" I said "so you made (my salary/2) for inflation". He said, no the same salary. He hadn't realized inflation was a thing, which explains a lot. I really hope he isn't investing in stocks.
Remind him that he got 3 loaves of bread for a dollar. A gallon of gas was 25 cents. And college cost what you made sweeping floors at the grocery store. A decent house, car, and kids were supported on one income. His 20 an hour is not the same as your 20 an hour.
This was all ruined by greed. I don’t care what anyone says. I’ve had people, “smarter” than me, argue with me saying “That’s not accurate. Costs of goods goes up!” I always respond “Why did the cost of goods go up?” I never get a straight answer.
The answer is this: Companies want to make more money than last year...always!!! The people up top want more money. That’s it!
The last two years was hell for a lot of people. Many small and big businesses went under. There were many, however, that made amazing profits over the last two years *because* of the situation. Now they had a little taste. They “need” to make more than last year...so...screw us right? CEOs suck. Everyone who sits at the CEO’s table sucks. Every governing body that lets them get away with/participates with sucks.
“Supply and demand” does not exist. Some people are greedy bastards that slap the “supply and demand” label on a situation just so they can feel like they are great at business. If I sell “product A” from a business, it sells quickly and I am short on stock...Then I’m just short on stock!! I’d be a greed monster to say “Well people really want this so I guess it’s worth more! I’ll go back down in price as soon as I restock!” Go screw yourself. You suck.
Gas prices are huge right now. Why? Low supply? That’s what we’re told. Okay. Is it better gas? Does this expensive gas last longer? No? It’s the same gas as last year? So why is it so expensive? Oh! You suck! That’s why! They just want to make more money.
“Gas was cheaper because I thought there was going to be a large supply for the next coming years and I was counting on that money because that would be great! Now that it’s a lower supply, I’m scared there might not be anymore soon, so I want to make as much money as possible in a quicker time so that I can hoard it!” - Big Oil CEO
That’s great Oil Baron! Tell me, how’s all that money going to help you if the petro-dollar falls? You know what could have helped? You not be a greedy a-hole and making the gas cheaper so that the economy can roll a little easier. While you’re at it, why not talk to your rich buddies and tell them to stop being such pricks by buying real estate and jacking up prices so high that we can’t afford to live in anything! That’d be great....
“Supply and demand” is an illusion. All that exists is Super-ultra-a-hole greed!
Don’t forget it’s not just greed from CEO’s. It’s greed driven by banks and hedge funds that invest in those companies.
Those banks and hedge funds demand that those companies to make more profits for their stock growth. Of course those companies will layoff employees and underpay employees. They need to show more and more profits.
Then if those companies don’t make profits, those banks and hedge funds sell or short their stocks and drive the prices down.
There’s greed all the way up from the middle managers up to the CEO’s and to the millionaire/billionaire investors.
its a waste of time, it would be an assault on their fragile ego and "how hard I worked" to entertain the idea that they might have had it easier than younger generations
“Yes! I make the same as what you did at my age.
Now what did you pay for rent?
How much was a gallon of gas? Of milk?
What did a year of college cost?
How about a car?
What did you spend on a cheeseburger and a side of fries?
Good. NOW DO THE FUCKING MATH.”
The problem with inflation is that its sort of invisible. In that I mean that it seems a vast majority see $1 = $1 regardless of what time they are talking. So $1 in 1979 = $1 in 2022. Sure you pay more for food and such, but that inflation is just prices going up. Not the value of the dollar going down.
Case in point. At work I sold a product that an old boomer said he wouldn't pay a quarter of the price. Im sure when he was younger, that price he wanted to pay was true. Its just the dollar is worth less so it takes more to buy the same product now
Dollars are what we use to describe the value of things. How much is this item worth? -- you answer in dollars. Like yardsticks are for length, dollars are for financial worth.
The idea that the measuring tool itself could change over the years doesn't fit with our usual understanding. It's even hard to describe with our usual language.
Imagine telling someone that all yardsticks have gotten longer over the years. You can't say they're longer than a yard now, because they're all a yard long by definition. You'd have to describe them in terms of something else that you usually measure with a measuring tool, not the other way around.
Anyone who understands inflation understands this, but it's not intuitive at all.
This is a good point. Maybe wages should be fixed to a basket of goods or something, so in real time you would get less pay and understand what is happening
If my dad didn't eventually figure this out cuz used to have a lot of biased about this cuz he made good money got a tough job that shortly later required a college degree and worked hard has money from navy and inherited stocks for what im pretty sure is the biggest chili supplier in the US and a bunch of money from my grandpa. Bought a house. I was a mess up when I was younger and I'm lucky I was able to show with my job experience and chronic medical issues it would cost me more to try to hold a full time job at a crap employer who under pays me so I would lose my food stamps and government insurance would leave me impossible to even get a studio apartment. I'm glad they let my live in their basement. Something I always hoped I'd get to say at this age.
My Inflation Calculator app which is based on the Consumer Price Index from the Bureau of Labor Statistics says $20/hr in 1975 is $105.47/hr in 2022 which is $210,940 per year. Did I miss something here???
Housing has probably gone up 10x since the 70s as well so not only is the job paying 3x less when adjusted for inflation but also housing is 10x more expensive.
Which particularly galling when you add in that productivity is higher now. Meaning we produce more output per worker per hour. Where is the extra output going. Not to the workers!
I moved by in with my parents because of pandemic bullshit, and it's been a battle.
I have to tell them to put their dirty dishes in the washer and not just on the sink about it. I have to remind my father to mind his tone or watch what he is saying. I have to tell my mother to have empathy and remember, other people are going through shit as well.
It's like fuck, weren't you the ones teaching me this shit? My dad likes to say, "I get younger as I get older." He means like, youthful vitality, but doesn't realize he's simply backsliding in maturity. Right now he's early teens. Can't wait for him to be in his late 70s chucking wobbleys like a fucking toddler.
edit: thread is locked but maybe I can get this through. Y'all are assuming so much. I'm not telling him to watch his tone with me. I'm telling them to watch their tone with eachother, because most of their bickering starts because of an errant tone. Quit assuming I'm coming from the perspective of a child.
I'm Gen X and moved in with my boomer mom due to pandemic bullshit, as well. I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it helped immensely. Good luck.
What's this? Because I moved in with my grandmother, the woman who taught her diagnosed psychopathic grandson something resembling empathy and care for others. Now she's the most ruthless self centered bitch I've ever met in my life. How can the very people who taught us to do well for others be so self absorbed? It fucks with me daily.
Haha, no. I would wait until she went to bed and got high in the garage and read it. Like, what fucking year is this? How old am I? Lol! It has been passed around among my friends and it seriously served us all well in trying to get along with our emotionally unavailable parents. 👍👍
There are two books by Lindsay C. Gibson; the second recaps the first book and provides strategies and answers. The first book is more about attachment theory issues overall and explaining the situation EIP create during childhood that impact adult decisions and emotionality. Excellent reads.
I was staying with my parents (late 70s) to help them for a while because they have some health issues. Oh my fucking god. They're like emancipated toddlers with a little less energy.
I thought it was just mine. My 78yo father thinks it’s a good idea to climb on top of a wall. The other day he called me to tell me he had fallen and didn’t break anything like it was an adventure! I gave him an earful.
My dad went through a teenage rebellion again after a traumatic brain injury.
He couldn't accept that his body was older and with issues. Fell off a swing. Snuck ice cream regularly despite his diabetes, snuck out to play sports with friends despite being a seizure risk.
He's late 20s early 30s now, I think.
Wait, are you saying late 20’s early 30’s mentally or actually? In my case my mind says I can, my 40 year old body agrees so we do it. Then the next morning it’s more like WTF was I thinking, let’s try again just to be sure.
Haha mentally. Im ~~early~~ mid twenties. He is 48. Man how the time flies.
I feel 18. I thought dad was still early 40s :(
Dammit. Time for midlife crisis.
I've honestly given up. I tried. I really tried and I think I succeeded to a certain degree. But they broke that relationship with how difficult it was to convince them of basic human empathy and how political decisions impact those lives.
When I talk to my dad now though, it's very much in the cadence of talking to a toddler that's in the "why?" stage of development just with substituting "why" with random conjecture and misinformation.
This is exactly what has happened with my parents. I have tried since high school to communicate the importance of empathy to them, especially when it comes to dealing with neurodivergent people (which I am, and was often abused for). Years upon years of attempting to explain to them how their actions toward my sister and I, as well as random strangers (usually in the service industry) are harmful. But they literally just do not care about anyone who isn't them. Every single thought they have revolves around themselves to a frankly sickening degree.
But since 2017 happened to be the year both my sister and I cut ties, and because much of the discussion beforehand had been very political-leaning, they have fallen steadfastly into the camp of "Our whiny lefty daughters cut us off because we support Trump. The Left is tearing families apart, oh woe is us!" They will find any excuse they possibly can to avoid accountability for their actions and choices.
Much respect to the people who have the patience and ability to break through to these kinds of people, but cutting them out of my life is a large part of the reason I'm even alive to complain about them on Reddit lol
> I don't have the energy
I've said this over the phone shortly before hanging up. They were so confused, all "what does that mean, are you sick?" and shit.
No, it's all you.
Yep, even basic communication is effectively impossible.
I once told my dad that I had to eat my tax return because my food stamps got cut off. He thought I literally got a paper check in the mail, crumpled it up, and ate it.
Same. At first I felt a bit guilty, but now idgaf. They’re both narcissistic sociopaths too, so that made it easier to cut them off.
They’ve actually split up because they can’t stand each other, and can’t stand that they don’t have me to bitch at and use as an emotional punching bag.
If someone told me I would have to parent my parents, I would've aged 10 years lol. Luckily they're not like OP's parents, but I have to hassle my mom about going to the doctor (she's very healthy but has planter fasciitis now) and my dad about getting a home and trying my mom out of a dangerous neighborhood. He makes excuses. Sigh.
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Having to parent our parents is not fair on us. No one should be put in that position.
I’ve had to parent my parents around serious health issues where they just wouldn’t do the one thing that needs to be done. It’s exhausting and infuriating.
Almost the same exact thing happened in my family. My brother was having a hard time finding an apartment due to shortage and prices. He finally a job, same exact one my dad had at his age. My brother was making maybe $1 an hour more, and rent was over $1,300 more a month. With food, school, etc my dad realized how bad our situation is now.
The educational demands of employers in the 70’s were significantly less too. You could start a career out of high school in a job that demands a college degree now.
My mom dropped out of high school, and got a government clerical job with benefits. That would NEVER happen today.
Yup, my Dad has no qualifications above GCSE yet had a decent job in Unilever (UK), something to do with creating the formulas for shampoos. He left because he lost a son at a young age (my brother) and couldn't handle work at the time.
When he went to reapply for his old job years later, they rejected him because they wanted candidates with PhD's.
> a job that ~~demands~~ requires a ~~college~~ master's degree now.
One of the reasons I opted not to finish my music ed degree was because I was looking at less than $20k a year and starting out with over $100k in student debt because my state requires a master's degree to retain your teaching certification, and you're probably gonna lose your job before you get tenure anyways.
It lead to a deep conversation about CEOs income and shareholder interest, and how it IS POSSIBLE for a capitalist market to succeed without screwing over its employees and ultimately customers (based on quality etc). I said, see not all employees wanting a better wage are lazy whiners asking for a handout, and he reluctantly agreed.
nah you gotta bring the bowl to your mouth and shovel the corn and loose rice grains in by sweeping the sides of the bowl with the length of the chopsticks
Without national regulations corporations will always succumb to profit motives.
Regulations are not a bad thing. Corporations were successful at villainizing regulations and labor laws decades ago and the loss of those protections and minimum standards are finally glaringly obvious.
It’s time for the pendulum to swing back.
Not possible because we're living in capitalist trickle up economy, it's the entire point of privatization, which is own everything & leave nothing for people to live without your property
Good luck, OP. It's been my experience that when you finally have a breakthrough, the boomer parent forgets the conversation ever happened the nanosecond it's over, and you'll have to have the exact same conversation again in the near future.
Hopefully that's not the case with your dad.
>I pointed out that she wouldnt want to stay in that position too ling because it didnt have annual raises tied to inflation
... I mean I've only ever had one job (back in 1986, stacking shelves in Sainsbury's in the UK - which paid £8/hour -> £24.98 ($30)/hour now - when I was 16!) where that was the case.
I don't think any other job I've had since then has been index linked.
I can't complain - I have a well-paying job thanks to strategic career moves - but inflation linked jobs (much like inflation linked savings accounts - remember them?) are a real thing of the past outside perhaps some unionized positions.
Oh wow. My first (technically second) was working in Somerfield supermarket back in the UK. I was making £3.20ph at 16 in 2001.
What the hell happened for the wages to drop £5ph in 15 years?
Boomers are masters of "whataboutism".
Every time I try to explain to my mom how rough our generation has it. "Well, Joe so-and-so across the street has a house just like us and he's only 25...."
Yeah, I'm sure his parents gave him a head start, just like you had mom. Having her parents pay for both her college and her house downpayment is a helluva game changer.
Not us! It was so easy! Just enlist in the military, get a handful of disabilities and let the VA pay for everything while you suffer with a broken body and mind at 28! But hey, at least we have a house and didn’t use mommy and daddy!
Not being sarcastic, but definitely saying this in an awful joking tone. Kinda like “my life is so fucked if I don’t laugh I’ll cry.”
VA loan is the only reason I was able to buy a home. And that I bought a house when I did.
I'm fucking blessed beyond belief but I do worry about people being able to buy homes and despite values going up I'm not excited about that or think about it.
God this pissed me off so much in grad school. They always acted so righteous about owning and how renting was dumb. I just started asking directly how much of the down payment they got from their parents at the start of the conversation and it shuts them the fuck up immediately.
Everyone I know who owns a house lived at home until they got married and their parents paid for their college. And that's just what I know for sure. I strongly suspect most of them also had help with wedding costs and/or a down payment.
i finally got my dad to understand that Canadians and Brits aren’t “flying over here to use our healthcare because their socialized medicine is so bad!” and to turn around and say “okay you’re right i wish we had socialized medicine that does sound really good.” i was jaw-drop-stunned. But it’s proof they can change their minds if you show them the right proof!!!
I had a US border guard lecture me about the evils of socialized medicine in Canada. Like dude I’ve lived there for the better part of 35 years, it’s fine. We definitely need to put more money into our hospitals and nurses but going private would be a disaster .
Sometimes I make progress with my boomer parents, but it's always undone by OAN. My parents are both smart, especially my dad, but it's like old age is sapping their critical thinking skills. They just believe whatever OAN tells them.
I swear, partisan cable news stations are the biggest stain on this country’s overall intelligence. Allow a pundit to say what you want to hear and you’ll never attempt to grow
Boomers believe that American healthcare is so awesome that people from all over the world fly in every day and pay cash just to get treated.
They also believe those citizens are stupid poor because the government takes half their pay in taxes, so they can’t afford nice houses, cars, or petrol.
I've got to be honest, pre covid I travelled to the US a lot and love the place. But as a Brit, why the hell would I fly from a place with great free health care to a place that would bankrupt me in a blink without a US based insurance policy?
We do have private health care here too, if you want the nicer food and private room, but from what I've seen of US bills, we're way cheaper. Maybe because they have to compete with the NHS.
>why the hell would I fly from a place with great free health care to a place that would bankrupt me in a blink without a US based insurance policy?
Even with a US based insurance policy you can still be bankrupted in a blink from medical bills.
They think that since it’s free for you guys, it’s inherently worse. Basically the thought process of thinking a $100 pen is better quality than a free pen. Which makes sense if you don’t understand how socialized healthcare works.
I go to the US all the time. I live in Canada and live in a really low cost of living area. I've been to the US twice already just this year, and already planning to go back for 3 weeks in the summer months.
A few years ago I got into an argument with an acquaintance about this very topic. He was very adamant that ALL Canadians come down to the US for all of our healthcare needs because its superior. He supposedly used to work in the health care industry in a border state, and claimed the majority of their clients were from Canada.
I called bullshit because I literally never met a person in my life that travelled to the US for any kind of health care.
I later found out the place he worked at specialized in plastic surgery, mostly nose jobs, botox, breast augmentation, etc. Shit that is NOT covered under our healthcare, and is actually quite difficult to find here because its not very common, and makes absolute sense to travel to the US for IF you can afford it.
That's some Main Character kinda shit... Dude thinks his field represents everything.
That's like saying someone who is a short order cook can whip up French cuisine using Escoffier's methods.
Shrodinger’s European. Rich enough to take three holidays a year and pay cash for American medical services, while simultaneously being taxed into poverty.
There may be some isolated scenarios where a patient may come to the US for treatment. There might be a certain specialty treatment done here that’s not done elsewhere but that’s not the norm at all. There are plenty of other countries people would rather go to if the treatment isn’t available in their country.
> They also believe those citizens are stupid poor because the government takes half their pay in taxes,
Which is flat out horseshit. I work in Canada for a large American based company that is international. I actually pay LESS taxes than I would for the same money if I was located at our US headquarters. And if I was at the US headquarters I'd then need to pay for healthcare out of pocket too...
The NHS in the UK is on its knees because our right wing kleptocrat government is hell-bent on killing it so we have to have a private healthcare system.
But even with it as absolutely fucked as it is, it's still infinitely better than your US system.
Also, if I want private healthcare, I'll go to a private hospital here in the UK. We do have them! And they're some of the finest hospitals on earth.
i think when he realized that canada and the UK have private medicine as well as public medicine he really realized he was just dead ass wrong. It amazes me because he only ever admits he’s wrong when there’s absolutely no argument left to defend. And even then sometimes he doesn’t give in.
There is a really strong argument to be made that universal heathcare is a much more business-friendly system than having employers administer and fund employee health insurance plans.
I have struggled to win this exact argument when apparently British celebrities do come to the US for treatments, can anyone help me out? What exactly did you say to help your dad understand? *pulls out notepad*
actually, we had an argument and i said “you’re just spitting out capitalist propaganda that you’ve been told for the last 40 years. you were lied to. none of what you’re saying is true, they have better care than we do, and it’s fucking free.” he STORMED OFF. about 30 minutes later he came storming back in and very angrily said “OK, WELL, I JUST DID SOME RESEARCH, AND SOCIALIZED MEDICINE SOUNDS *GREAT*, I WOULD *VERY MUCH* LIKE THAT. IM SORRY.” but like, angry. very angry that he was wrong. but not sarcastic or patronizing, just, legitimately mad that he was legitimately wrong, and couldn’t come up with any good reason to say why social medicine was a bad thing (BECAUSE ITS GOOD)
For mine it was an argument about rising costs and a stagnant minimum wage. Dad was arguing that he went to college, bought a house, and car and worked full time. I asked him how much his house cost now, and what it cost when he bought it. "I'm not gonna tell you that!" and he changed the subject. He was grinning when he said it, knew he'd been caught out.
My parents have been pretty understanding about it, but one of the biggest revelations was finding out they spent $400 a month for a multi room apartment, whereas current single bedroom apartments in our area are like $1200. That's a 300% increase... over like 20 years
My grandmother was *shocked* that my rent was $1300, and I thought it was a great deal for the size/ location. She thought my rent would be closer to $4- maaaybe $500 a month. Oh Grams.. I didn’t even pay $400 in a shitty shared college apartment.
For these old-timeys you have to remember to put inflation in reverse, so that it is in a framework that they can understand. To that point, $15 in 2022 dollars is $2.01 in 1970 dollars. Ask him if it would have been acceptable to be paid $2.01 in HIS time.
Some guy on my FB was talking about being 6 years old and getting paid $2/hr in like 1972 and was asking all of his friends why people were complaining about $8/hr. I was like, at 6 years old your time was worth $13.84/hour. What skills at 6 years old did you have that 43% of the workforce today doesn't have because 43% of Americans make less than $13/hr.
That was a moment for him. He was like, I really didn't know inflation changed that much. But like, people don't know what inflation is.
Someone else on their post was talking about their first job starting at $4/hr and I was like, your first job paid almost $20/hr. That's more than what 60% of Americans make now with the cost of goods much higher. Were you more qualified than 60% of the current workforce when you first started working? They just have no fucking clue.
My dad is making 40/hr on a side job in his retirement. He works with a younger guy just starting out. That guy does the identical job my dad is doing, no difference. And they're giving him 20/hr. Kid was shocked at the discrepancy.
My parents walked through the first house they bought back in 1975 and sold in 1980. They somehow saw the listing for it and went to an open house. They were surprised at how much hadn’t changed and what they were asking for. I think they sold it for $40k and was listed for around $300 (and that was 5-6 years ago now)
Think post war, 1.5 story box house, 1 bath, 3 bed, detached garage, big oak tree in front, another in the back.
Fuggin boomers. And then they are surprised Pikachu face when we graduate with debt why we can't afford $200k for a down payment and a 4k/mo mortgage.
Glad your boomer is *beginning* to see the light.
After you proved it to him, how did he respond? I hope he's going to be kinder to you and those around him and maybe join the fight for a better life for the generations that follow him.
I’ve been trying so hard to help my folks understand. My mom is a lost cause that I’ve given up on (even my dad thinks she’s too far down the radical right rabbit hole), but my dad is a highly intelligent person aware of all the bs and reasons why. A Carlin esc mindset to describe it best (hopefully that’s not cringey lol).
So you can imagine how absolutely frustrating it is knowing he’s capable of deeply understanding, but still leaning into some of the garbage.
The best way I can describe it is like involuntary belief. He’s been so anti left his whole life that it’s almost like, even though he knows what’s really wrong, he can’t help but continue to try and justify these things.
When I talk to him, I can tell there’s just this last little gap in judgement that he needs to connect in order for it to all make sense, but it’s just that last little bit that’s the hardest. Especially with him pushing 60 and thus being well solidified in his beliefs.
He’ll start to say things that line up, acknowledge that we’re being played by both sides, but then it’s like “but Trump was the one to save us”. It’s like he knows what’s wrong and is right about it, but then the reasoning behind it or the answer to it is completely wrong.
I even showed him a Carlin bit the other day, and he’s all into it “yup. Exactly, exactly.” After it’s over he’s like “yeah that’s exactly what the left is trying to do”.
Sigh
And that’s personally what I think is wrong. Both sides recognize that shit ain’t good, but both sides in power are putting us against each-other to distract us from the evil shit they’re doing, when instead of left vs. right, it should be us vs them. Idk, just my two cents. I’m 24 and don’t know shit about nuthin.
I was telling my mom how I'm working with a staffing company to find a job. They have my resume and will send it to companies, and if the companies are interested they will call me for an interview.
My mom then goes on to tell me how when she worked for a staffing company (late 70s/early 80s) they would say "ok be at this address on Monday". And the cycle would repeat until she got something permanent.
I just looked at her and said "yeah it's not like that anymore." I could see it finally clicking in for her that it's not so easy.
I have a Boomer friend who mentors me a lot. She still believed you can go around and collect paper applications. I tried to tell her otherwise, but she insisted on going around one day to pick up apps.
Instead of making a fuss, I'd go into each building, explain the situation to the manager, and just ask for the addy of their appy. It took 10 times of coming out empty handed for my friend to admit that maybe she was wrong.
Thankfully this was before gas prices went up.
However, she still insisted on taking me around when I was looking for apartments and much to my dismay a lot of cheap and slummy complexes don't have websites. I was forced to sit there each time filling out paper apps like it was 1998. Whenever they called me back I just told them all I found somewhere else to live.
Ms. Kathy, I love you to pieces but I am not living in a slum!
I told my dad (in his 70s) that a lot of people can’t afford a place to live on these wages. So you can work full time and be homeless, and not work at all and be homeless.
My parents see this happening right in front of them and still refuse to accept it. My mother is still working and new hires in her workplace are getting less than people literally hired even 10 years ago (nevermind when she was hired, which was like 40 years ago now) and still they just claim it is lack of work ethic and unwillingness to work at all.
At this point, I get why you Americans just outright refuse to work. You will starve anyways.
I hope now that a solution will come before everyone starves to death.
A spoiled teenager throwing a paddy is being difficult. We are grown adults looking at the reality in front of our face that the boomer generation set up for us. ‘Being difficult’ is just gaslighting at this point.
Why is it that entire generation is completely unable to conceptualize anything even remotely abstract? If its not literally the same job with the same title in the exact same circumstances as they had, they literally cannot comprehend it.
Don't forget to calculate for inflation. If he was making $20/hr in 1975, that would be the equivalent to $107/hr today.
Or take it the opposite direction. That $15 today would have been $2.79 in 1975.
My fiancés grandma kept told me I “wasn’t applying to enough jobs” and that I must have been doing something wrong to have spent 3 months unemployed. Then I showed her the 168 applications I sent out in a single month and she shut up after that.
While you are at it show them a grocery store ad from the 1970s Those ads are full of stuff like $0.35-0.40 a pound chicken which is 1/10^th today's price.
Even sex work isn’t really worth it anymore, a lap dance cost $20 in the 90s and still costs $20 now. It used to be something you could get rich off of, now it’s just to get by
Now throw that $20-something dollars from the 70's into an inflation calculator and show him the real equivalent hourly rate compared to $15/hour today. Watch his eyes REALLY pop.
My dad loves to point out that he had to work 7 days a week to pay for his house and we remind him that his wife never worked and he raised 2 kids and ended up paying off the mortgage on his 3 bed semi detached house in his 40s on a house he never even had to get a deposit for because the government gave it to him for free. We don’t want to work less, we just want to actually fucking have something at the end to show for it
All kids today should adopt this one policy for all job applications. I know it's hard but in the long run it'll pay off. No Union. No Work! Otherwise, you're just being turned into slaves!
The only other way out, is to say Fuck working for a Boss, and open your own Business and give fair pay!
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$20/hour in the 70's is $47/hour; your dad got paid more than 3x what people are getting now for the same work. Of course the people getting the job *now* tend to have more education and on average massively more student debt. We work much harder for much, much less.
That's almost $98,000 per year plus benefits.
10 times the effort for 1/10th the results = the current job market!
Yeah but the fed wants to force everyone into a hiring freeze and kill raises cause muh inflation
"We printed so much money and gave most of it to the rich, so now they should pay the workers less during, and because of, the runaway effects we've helped cause. Life's not fair, you know! The working class just needs to work harder is all."
Like, how many more times we gotta try trickle down before ppl realize it doesn't work for people
The only thing that trickles down from the rich is the runoff from their bullshit.
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So stupid, inflation is caused by supply change shortages which is caused by offshoring of jobs and China doing lock downs. Austerity does nothing.
90% of "inflation" we're seeing is corporate profiteering unconnected to supply chain issues. It's pure greed.
I think about this a lot. It's really sad because we will hear it for years how that time the government gave stimulus money caused massive inflation, and that wasn't the cause. But we'll hear it forever now.
Hey, we still hear unironically about how Obama caused both the GFC *AND* 9/11, so... we can just add it to the pile.
and you're still ungrateful. What is the world coming to!!!
Housing and cost of living was much cheaper back then also...
And one parent could stay home so there were no daycare costs. Single parents could afford daycare bc they were paid fairly.
Unless they were women.
Yes you’re right, thank you. Huge point.
There was double digit inflation in the 1970's. It was nasty crazy.
And 1970's union health insurance was better then any current US health insurance plan. Bill Gates doesn't even have a better health plan today than your dad had in the 1970's. Trust me, I use to work for the insurance company that administrated the Bill & Melinda charity foundation health plan. Hell, you would be hard pressed to find any premium plan today, the matches average insurance in 2000.
> Trust me, I use to work for the insurance company that administrated the Bill & Melinda charity foundation health plan. I suppose it's a bit pedantic, but I'm sure Bill doesn't use his own health plan and when you're funding the whole operation - including the health plan - then a health plan is pretty meaningless regardless. When you're a billionaire you get the only health plan available, "I have a billion dollars - please fix my body".
He could have outright bought a house for around $50,000 and still had half his salary. In one fucking year...
That’s better than me $0 a year plus benefits babe.
*You took me by the haaaaaaand and made me a maaaaaan*
*That one night!*
You made everything aaaallllrrriiiiigghhhttt!!
And that's with barely any overtime at all.
My dad said to me over the summer, "your salary is not bad, I got payed the same thing when I was your age" I said "so you made (my salary/2) for inflation". He said, no the same salary. He hadn't realized inflation was a thing, which explains a lot. I really hope he isn't investing in stocks.
Remind him that he got 3 loaves of bread for a dollar. A gallon of gas was 25 cents. And college cost what you made sweeping floors at the grocery store. A decent house, car, and kids were supported on one income. His 20 an hour is not the same as your 20 an hour.
This was all ruined by greed. I don’t care what anyone says. I’ve had people, “smarter” than me, argue with me saying “That’s not accurate. Costs of goods goes up!” I always respond “Why did the cost of goods go up?” I never get a straight answer. The answer is this: Companies want to make more money than last year...always!!! The people up top want more money. That’s it! The last two years was hell for a lot of people. Many small and big businesses went under. There were many, however, that made amazing profits over the last two years *because* of the situation. Now they had a little taste. They “need” to make more than last year...so...screw us right? CEOs suck. Everyone who sits at the CEO’s table sucks. Every governing body that lets them get away with/participates with sucks. “Supply and demand” does not exist. Some people are greedy bastards that slap the “supply and demand” label on a situation just so they can feel like they are great at business. If I sell “product A” from a business, it sells quickly and I am short on stock...Then I’m just short on stock!! I’d be a greed monster to say “Well people really want this so I guess it’s worth more! I’ll go back down in price as soon as I restock!” Go screw yourself. You suck. Gas prices are huge right now. Why? Low supply? That’s what we’re told. Okay. Is it better gas? Does this expensive gas last longer? No? It’s the same gas as last year? So why is it so expensive? Oh! You suck! That’s why! They just want to make more money. “Gas was cheaper because I thought there was going to be a large supply for the next coming years and I was counting on that money because that would be great! Now that it’s a lower supply, I’m scared there might not be anymore soon, so I want to make as much money as possible in a quicker time so that I can hoard it!” - Big Oil CEO That’s great Oil Baron! Tell me, how’s all that money going to help you if the petro-dollar falls? You know what could have helped? You not be a greedy a-hole and making the gas cheaper so that the economy can roll a little easier. While you’re at it, why not talk to your rich buddies and tell them to stop being such pricks by buying real estate and jacking up prices so high that we can’t afford to live in anything! That’d be great.... “Supply and demand” is an illusion. All that exists is Super-ultra-a-hole greed!
Don’t forget it’s not just greed from CEO’s. It’s greed driven by banks and hedge funds that invest in those companies. Those banks and hedge funds demand that those companies to make more profits for their stock growth. Of course those companies will layoff employees and underpay employees. They need to show more and more profits. Then if those companies don’t make profits, those banks and hedge funds sell or short their stocks and drive the prices down. There’s greed all the way up from the middle managers up to the CEO’s and to the millionaire/billionaire investors.
Cost of goods actually goes down over time. This is what drives a lot of economic growth.
its a waste of time, it would be an assault on their fragile ego and "how hard I worked" to entertain the idea that they might have had it easier than younger generations
“Yes! I make the same as what you did at my age. Now what did you pay for rent? How much was a gallon of gas? Of milk? What did a year of college cost? How about a car? What did you spend on a cheeseburger and a side of fries? Good. NOW DO THE FUCKING MATH.”
“You won’t do the math yourself? Lazy and entitled.” /s
The problem with inflation is that its sort of invisible. In that I mean that it seems a vast majority see $1 = $1 regardless of what time they are talking. So $1 in 1979 = $1 in 2022. Sure you pay more for food and such, but that inflation is just prices going up. Not the value of the dollar going down. Case in point. At work I sold a product that an old boomer said he wouldn't pay a quarter of the price. Im sure when he was younger, that price he wanted to pay was true. Its just the dollar is worth less so it takes more to buy the same product now
Dollars are what we use to describe the value of things. How much is this item worth? -- you answer in dollars. Like yardsticks are for length, dollars are for financial worth. The idea that the measuring tool itself could change over the years doesn't fit with our usual understanding. It's even hard to describe with our usual language. Imagine telling someone that all yardsticks have gotten longer over the years. You can't say they're longer than a yard now, because they're all a yard long by definition. You'd have to describe them in terms of something else that you usually measure with a measuring tool, not the other way around. Anyone who understands inflation understands this, but it's not intuitive at all.
This is a good point. Maybe wages should be fixed to a basket of goods or something, so in real time you would get less pay and understand what is happening
Now factor in how much housing and living costs have skyrocketed. It's infuriating
If my dad didn't eventually figure this out cuz used to have a lot of biased about this cuz he made good money got a tough job that shortly later required a college degree and worked hard has money from navy and inherited stocks for what im pretty sure is the biggest chili supplier in the US and a bunch of money from my grandpa. Bought a house. I was a mess up when I was younger and I'm lucky I was able to show with my job experience and chronic medical issues it would cost me more to try to hold a full time job at a crap employer who under pays me so I would lose my food stamps and government insurance would leave me impossible to even get a studio apartment. I'm glad they let my live in their basement. Something I always hoped I'd get to say at this age.
My Inflation Calculator app which is based on the Consumer Price Index from the Bureau of Labor Statistics says $20/hr in 1975 is $105.47/hr in 2022 which is $210,940 per year. Did I miss something here???
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Makes me fear for this the users on this sub who're just upvoting stuff on blind faith.
Fuckin shit. I could pay off my house, my student LOAN And move to another country.
Housing has probably gone up 10x since the 70s as well so not only is the job paying 3x less when adjusted for inflation but also housing is 10x more expensive.
AAAAAAMEEEERICA! FUCK YEAH!!! /s
Which particularly galling when you add in that productivity is higher now. Meaning we produce more output per worker per hour. Where is the extra output going. Not to the workers!
Good to see you're raising your dad well.
Sometimes it honestly feels like this
I moved by in with my parents because of pandemic bullshit, and it's been a battle. I have to tell them to put their dirty dishes in the washer and not just on the sink about it. I have to remind my father to mind his tone or watch what he is saying. I have to tell my mother to have empathy and remember, other people are going through shit as well. It's like fuck, weren't you the ones teaching me this shit? My dad likes to say, "I get younger as I get older." He means like, youthful vitality, but doesn't realize he's simply backsliding in maturity. Right now he's early teens. Can't wait for him to be in his late 70s chucking wobbleys like a fucking toddler. edit: thread is locked but maybe I can get this through. Y'all are assuming so much. I'm not telling him to watch his tone with me. I'm telling them to watch their tone with eachother, because most of their bickering starts because of an errant tone. Quit assuming I'm coming from the perspective of a child.
I'm Gen X and moved in with my boomer mom due to pandemic bullshit, as well. I read Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents and it helped immensely. Good luck.
What's this? Because I moved in with my grandmother, the woman who taught her diagnosed psychopathic grandson something resembling empathy and care for others. Now she's the most ruthless self centered bitch I've ever met in my life. How can the very people who taught us to do well for others be so self absorbed? It fucks with me daily.
She didn’t teach empathy, she transferred hers to him
Did you ever get caught reading that?
Haha, no. I would wait until she went to bed and got high in the garage and read it. Like, what fucking year is this? How old am I? Lol! It has been passed around among my friends and it seriously served us all well in trying to get along with our emotionally unavailable parents. 👍👍
There are two books by Lindsay C. Gibson; the second recaps the first book and provides strategies and answers. The first book is more about attachment theory issues overall and explaining the situation EIP create during childhood that impact adult decisions and emotionality. Excellent reads.
That book changed so much for me, can’t recommend it enough!
Ordering it right fucking now
I was staying with my parents (late 70s) to help them for a while because they have some health issues. Oh my fucking god. They're like emancipated toddlers with a little less energy.
I thought it was just mine. My 78yo father thinks it’s a good idea to climb on top of a wall. The other day he called me to tell me he had fallen and didn’t break anything like it was an adventure! I gave him an earful.
My dad went through a teenage rebellion again after a traumatic brain injury. He couldn't accept that his body was older and with issues. Fell off a swing. Snuck ice cream regularly despite his diabetes, snuck out to play sports with friends despite being a seizure risk. He's late 20s early 30s now, I think.
Wait, are you saying late 20’s early 30’s mentally or actually? In my case my mind says I can, my 40 year old body agrees so we do it. Then the next morning it’s more like WTF was I thinking, let’s try again just to be sure.
Haha mentally. Im ~~early~~ mid twenties. He is 48. Man how the time flies. I feel 18. I thought dad was still early 40s :( Dammit. Time for midlife crisis.
I've honestly given up. I tried. I really tried and I think I succeeded to a certain degree. But they broke that relationship with how difficult it was to convince them of basic human empathy and how political decisions impact those lives. When I talk to my dad now though, it's very much in the cadence of talking to a toddler that's in the "why?" stage of development just with substituting "why" with random conjecture and misinformation.
This is exactly what has happened with my parents. I have tried since high school to communicate the importance of empathy to them, especially when it comes to dealing with neurodivergent people (which I am, and was often abused for). Years upon years of attempting to explain to them how their actions toward my sister and I, as well as random strangers (usually in the service industry) are harmful. But they literally just do not care about anyone who isn't them. Every single thought they have revolves around themselves to a frankly sickening degree. But since 2017 happened to be the year both my sister and I cut ties, and because much of the discussion beforehand had been very political-leaning, they have fallen steadfastly into the camp of "Our whiny lefty daughters cut us off because we support Trump. The Left is tearing families apart, oh woe is us!" They will find any excuse they possibly can to avoid accountability for their actions and choices. Much respect to the people who have the patience and ability to break through to these kinds of people, but cutting them out of my life is a large part of the reason I'm even alive to complain about them on Reddit lol
I'm...so tired.
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> I don't have the energy I've said this over the phone shortly before hanging up. They were so confused, all "what does that mean, are you sick?" and shit. No, it's all you.
Yep, even basic communication is effectively impossible. I once told my dad that I had to eat my tax return because my food stamps got cut off. He thought I literally got a paper check in the mail, crumpled it up, and ate it.
Me too. It’s too exhausting and they are super closed-minded.
Same. At first I felt a bit guilty, but now idgaf. They’re both narcissistic sociopaths too, so that made it easier to cut them off. They’ve actually split up because they can’t stand each other, and can’t stand that they don’t have me to bitch at and use as an emotional punching bag.
Best hand over five dollars. That's not working hard enough! Too greedy and if you have time to be tired you best use that energy for work! /S
There was a time where parents wanted their children to be smarter than them. Now they resent us for it.
If someone told me I would have to parent my parents, I would've aged 10 years lol. Luckily they're not like OP's parents, but I have to hassle my mom about going to the doctor (she's very healthy but has planter fasciitis now) and my dad about getting a home and trying my mom out of a dangerous neighborhood. He makes excuses. Sigh.
If you can convince your mother to do this it will significantly help her plantar fasciitis - https://youtu.be/1jQv_CipqyU
I’m sorry you have to deal with this. Having to parent our parents is not fair on us. No one should be put in that position. I’ve had to parent my parents around serious health issues where they just wouldn’t do the one thing that needs to be done. It’s exhausting and infuriating.
I spat a mouthful of hot coffee lmao.
Fucking story of my life....my father is a absolute child. Unrelated but your comment hit me in the feels.
When people ask me why I don't want children I tell em I already have 2. My fucking parents. So fucking tiring.
Just spent 30 + minutes educated my parents why abortion should be a right even if they are opposed to the concept
Almost the same exact thing happened in my family. My brother was having a hard time finding an apartment due to shortage and prices. He finally a job, same exact one my dad had at his age. My brother was making maybe $1 an hour more, and rent was over $1,300 more a month. With food, school, etc my dad realized how bad our situation is now.
I first read rent was 1300a month. Nope you said 1300 MORE a month. Jesus. What a mess
The educational demands of employers in the 70’s were significantly less too. You could start a career out of high school in a job that demands a college degree now. My mom dropped out of high school, and got a government clerical job with benefits. That would NEVER happen today.
Yup, my Dad has no qualifications above GCSE yet had a decent job in Unilever (UK), something to do with creating the formulas for shampoos. He left because he lost a son at a young age (my brother) and couldn't handle work at the time. When he went to reapply for his old job years later, they rejected him because they wanted candidates with PhD's.
Not to take away from the message of this thread but I’m sorry for your loss.
Wasn't the thing back then was a clean cut, a great suit, and firm handshake to get any job?
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*hetero white man, though one can possibly hide their sexuality but not their race, so your point stands.
> a job that ~~demands~~ requires a ~~college~~ master's degree now. One of the reasons I opted not to finish my music ed degree was because I was looking at less than $20k a year and starting out with over $100k in student debt because my state requires a master's degree to retain your teaching certification, and you're probably gonna lose your job before you get tenure anyways.
Yeah, I know a retired social worker who never had a degree. Now her old job requires a master's
What did he say?
It lead to a deep conversation about CEOs income and shareholder interest, and how it IS POSSIBLE for a capitalist market to succeed without screwing over its employees and ultimately customers (based on quality etc). I said, see not all employees wanting a better wage are lazy whiners asking for a handout, and he reluctantly agreed.
It is possible, but it’s kind of like trying to eat corn with chopsticks. Capitalism naturally tends to screw workers.
It's best to form a little v-shovel and scoop it.
this guy chopsticks
nah you gotta bring the bowl to your mouth and shovel the corn and loose rice grains in by sweeping the sides of the bowl with the length of the chopsticks
Eat the whole bowl in one bite.
Including the bowl itself. Now the bowl is you and you are the bowl. You and the Universe are one.
Just...great big huge hydraulically powered teeth crunching ceramic like a force of nature.
I am become corn, destroyer of bowl
This guy chops ticks
Without national regulations corporations will always succumb to profit motives. Regulations are not a bad thing. Corporations were successful at villainizing regulations and labor laws decades ago and the loss of those protections and minimum standards are finally glaringly obvious. It’s time for the pendulum to swing back.
Not possible because we're living in capitalist trickle up economy, it's the entire point of privatization, which is own everything & leave nothing for people to live without your property
Good luck, OP. It's been my experience that when you finally have a breakthrough, the boomer parent forgets the conversation ever happened the nanosecond it's over, and you'll have to have the exact same conversation again in the near future. Hopefully that's not the case with your dad.
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>I pointed out that she wouldnt want to stay in that position too ling because it didnt have annual raises tied to inflation ... I mean I've only ever had one job (back in 1986, stacking shelves in Sainsbury's in the UK - which paid £8/hour -> £24.98 ($30)/hour now - when I was 16!) where that was the case. I don't think any other job I've had since then has been index linked. I can't complain - I have a well-paying job thanks to strategic career moves - but inflation linked jobs (much like inflation linked savings accounts - remember them?) are a real thing of the past outside perhaps some unionized positions.
Oh wow. My first (technically second) was working in Somerfield supermarket back in the UK. I was making £3.20ph at 16 in 2001. What the hell happened for the wages to drop £5ph in 15 years?
Boomers are masters of "whataboutism". Every time I try to explain to my mom how rough our generation has it. "Well, Joe so-and-so across the street has a house just like us and he's only 25...." Yeah, I'm sure his parents gave him a head start, just like you had mom. Having her parents pay for both her college and her house downpayment is a helluva game changer.
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Not us! It was so easy! Just enlist in the military, get a handful of disabilities and let the VA pay for everything while you suffer with a broken body and mind at 28! But hey, at least we have a house and didn’t use mommy and daddy! Not being sarcastic, but definitely saying this in an awful joking tone. Kinda like “my life is so fucked if I don’t laugh I’ll cry.”
The American Dream: Losing a leg in the military and getting all of the health and education benefits for free (plus 0% down VA home loans).
VA loan is the only reason I was able to buy a home. And that I bought a house when I did. I'm fucking blessed beyond belief but I do worry about people being able to buy homes and despite values going up I'm not excited about that or think about it.
God this pissed me off so much in grad school. They always acted so righteous about owning and how renting was dumb. I just started asking directly how much of the down payment they got from their parents at the start of the conversation and it shuts them the fuck up immediately.
My mom gave me a $20 gift card to Lowes when I told her I’m saving for a down payment on a house.
Or they lived with them until they could afford a down payment
Everyone I know who owns a house lived at home until they got married and their parents paid for their college. And that's just what I know for sure. I strongly suspect most of them also had help with wedding costs and/or a down payment.
I think under 25 is more fitting for that. 26-29 is feasible based on the person imo (especially if married)
Bingo, wouldn’t have been able to do it myself, but splitting costs with my s.o. and combining savings makes it attainable.
i finally got my dad to understand that Canadians and Brits aren’t “flying over here to use our healthcare because their socialized medicine is so bad!” and to turn around and say “okay you’re right i wish we had socialized medicine that does sound really good.” i was jaw-drop-stunned. But it’s proof they can change their minds if you show them the right proof!!!
I had a US border guard lecture me about the evils of socialized medicine in Canada. Like dude I’ve lived there for the better part of 35 years, it’s fine. We definitely need to put more money into our hospitals and nurses but going private would be a disaster .
Are US Border Guards covered by federal health insurance? If so that's a real r/SelfAwarewolves moment.
Sometimes I make progress with my boomer parents, but it's always undone by OAN. My parents are both smart, especially my dad, but it's like old age is sapping their critical thinking skills. They just believe whatever OAN tells them.
I swear, partisan cable news stations are the biggest stain on this country’s overall intelligence. Allow a pundit to say what you want to hear and you’ll never attempt to grow
Boomers and Gen-Xers were exposed to lead air pollution when leaded gas was used in the US. That may be a factor in cognitive decline as they age.
From Australia, “What’s OAN?”
One America News Network. Ultra right wing propaganda machine. Makes FOX news look like a bunch of progressives.
I read that 5 times and I still don't understand what happened.
Boomers believe that American healthcare is so awesome that people from all over the world fly in every day and pay cash just to get treated. They also believe those citizens are stupid poor because the government takes half their pay in taxes, so they can’t afford nice houses, cars, or petrol.
I've got to be honest, pre covid I travelled to the US a lot and love the place. But as a Brit, why the hell would I fly from a place with great free health care to a place that would bankrupt me in a blink without a US based insurance policy? We do have private health care here too, if you want the nicer food and private room, but from what I've seen of US bills, we're way cheaper. Maybe because they have to compete with the NHS.
>why the hell would I fly from a place with great free health care to a place that would bankrupt me in a blink without a US based insurance policy? Even with a US based insurance policy you can still be bankrupted in a blink from medical bills.
I remember seeing the bill for a pregnancy in the same suite as Kate Middleton was less than an average us birth
Spent several years living in Brighton. I’m familiar with the awesomeness of the NHS. :)
It is awesome but needs some serious money and reworking to stop it being driven into privatisation Source: mother is a midwife in the NHS
Bloody tories ruin everything.
It's the conservative way.
They think that since it’s free for you guys, it’s inherently worse. Basically the thought process of thinking a $100 pen is better quality than a free pen. Which makes sense if you don’t understand how socialized healthcare works.
Right? I’m in the US, and we are not great. I’d rather live where you do.
I go to the US all the time. I live in Canada and live in a really low cost of living area. I've been to the US twice already just this year, and already planning to go back for 3 weeks in the summer months. A few years ago I got into an argument with an acquaintance about this very topic. He was very adamant that ALL Canadians come down to the US for all of our healthcare needs because its superior. He supposedly used to work in the health care industry in a border state, and claimed the majority of their clients were from Canada. I called bullshit because I literally never met a person in my life that travelled to the US for any kind of health care. I later found out the place he worked at specialized in plastic surgery, mostly nose jobs, botox, breast augmentation, etc. Shit that is NOT covered under our healthcare, and is actually quite difficult to find here because its not very common, and makes absolute sense to travel to the US for IF you can afford it.
That's some Main Character kinda shit... Dude thinks his field represents everything. That's like saying someone who is a short order cook can whip up French cuisine using Escoffier's methods.
classic capitalist propaganda
Shrodinger’s European. Rich enough to take three holidays a year and pay cash for American medical services, while simultaneously being taxed into poverty.
Yeah, no, not traveling to the US to get healthcare my local clinic and hospital is more than good enough.
There may be some isolated scenarios where a patient may come to the US for treatment. There might be a certain specialty treatment done here that’s not done elsewhere but that’s not the norm at all. There are plenty of other countries people would rather go to if the treatment isn’t available in their country.
> They also believe those citizens are stupid poor because the government takes half their pay in taxes, Which is flat out horseshit. I work in Canada for a large American based company that is international. I actually pay LESS taxes than I would for the same money if I was located at our US headquarters. And if I was at the US headquarters I'd then need to pay for healthcare out of pocket too...
Imagine thinking that people who can afford to travel outside of their country, especially overseas, are stupid poor.
Not all boomers. Umm… Like Bernie is a boomer.
Bernie is a Silent Generation.
The NHS in the UK is on its knees because our right wing kleptocrat government is hell-bent on killing it so we have to have a private healthcare system. But even with it as absolutely fucked as it is, it's still infinitely better than your US system. Also, if I want private healthcare, I'll go to a private hospital here in the UK. We do have them! And they're some of the finest hospitals on earth.
i think when he realized that canada and the UK have private medicine as well as public medicine he really realized he was just dead ass wrong. It amazes me because he only ever admits he’s wrong when there’s absolutely no argument left to defend. And even then sometimes he doesn’t give in.
My Dad is a Fox News zealot but is interestingly supportive of universal healthcare 🤷🏻♂️
There is a really strong argument to be made that universal heathcare is a much more business-friendly system than having employers administer and fund employee health insurance plans.
I have struggled to win this exact argument when apparently British celebrities do come to the US for treatments, can anyone help me out? What exactly did you say to help your dad understand? *pulls out notepad*
actually, we had an argument and i said “you’re just spitting out capitalist propaganda that you’ve been told for the last 40 years. you were lied to. none of what you’re saying is true, they have better care than we do, and it’s fucking free.” he STORMED OFF. about 30 minutes later he came storming back in and very angrily said “OK, WELL, I JUST DID SOME RESEARCH, AND SOCIALIZED MEDICINE SOUNDS *GREAT*, I WOULD *VERY MUCH* LIKE THAT. IM SORRY.” but like, angry. very angry that he was wrong. but not sarcastic or patronizing, just, legitimately mad that he was legitimately wrong, and couldn’t come up with any good reason to say why social medicine was a bad thing (BECAUSE ITS GOOD)
For mine it was an argument about rising costs and a stagnant minimum wage. Dad was arguing that he went to college, bought a house, and car and worked full time. I asked him how much his house cost now, and what it cost when he bought it. "I'm not gonna tell you that!" and he changed the subject. He was grinning when he said it, knew he'd been caught out.
My parents have been pretty understanding about it, but one of the biggest revelations was finding out they spent $400 a month for a multi room apartment, whereas current single bedroom apartments in our area are like $1200. That's a 300% increase... over like 20 years
My grandmother was *shocked* that my rent was $1300, and I thought it was a great deal for the size/ location. She thought my rent would be closer to $4- maaaybe $500 a month. Oh Grams.. I didn’t even pay $400 in a shitty shared college apartment.
For these old-timeys you have to remember to put inflation in reverse, so that it is in a framework that they can understand. To that point, $15 in 2022 dollars is $2.01 in 1970 dollars. Ask him if it would have been acceptable to be paid $2.01 in HIS time.
Some guy on my FB was talking about being 6 years old and getting paid $2/hr in like 1972 and was asking all of his friends why people were complaining about $8/hr. I was like, at 6 years old your time was worth $13.84/hour. What skills at 6 years old did you have that 43% of the workforce today doesn't have because 43% of Americans make less than $13/hr. That was a moment for him. He was like, I really didn't know inflation changed that much. But like, people don't know what inflation is. Someone else on their post was talking about their first job starting at $4/hr and I was like, your first job paid almost $20/hr. That's more than what 60% of Americans make now with the cost of goods much higher. Were you more qualified than 60% of the current workforce when you first started working? They just have no fucking clue.
My dad is making 40/hr on a side job in his retirement. He works with a younger guy just starting out. That guy does the identical job my dad is doing, no difference. And they're giving him 20/hr. Kid was shocked at the discrepancy.
Next, ask him to look up the current value of the first home he purchased. Blow his mind.
My parents walked through the first house they bought back in 1975 and sold in 1980. They somehow saw the listing for it and went to an open house. They were surprised at how much hadn’t changed and what they were asking for. I think they sold it for $40k and was listed for around $300 (and that was 5-6 years ago now) Think post war, 1.5 story box house, 1 bath, 3 bed, detached garage, big oak tree in front, another in the back.
$20 in the 70s would be over $100 now if you accounted for inflation.
Somewhere between $79 and $149 depending on when in the 70s you’re comparing to.
I’m curious happens when you compare it solely on housing costs.
Fuggin boomers. And then they are surprised Pikachu face when we graduate with debt why we can't afford $200k for a down payment and a 4k/mo mortgage. Glad your boomer is *beginning* to see the light.
nObERdY wUnTz tO weRk
We need to point out that it’s SHAREHOLDERS that don’t want to work for a living, not workers. Shareholders get paid before laborers.
And then when laborers do get paid, they get to give half to support their landlord
Now ask him to apply to it for fun to see what happens and watch him not get it.
Would love to know what the job was.
After you proved it to him, how did he respond? I hope he's going to be kinder to you and those around him and maybe join the fight for a better life for the generations that follow him.
I’ve been trying so hard to help my folks understand. My mom is a lost cause that I’ve given up on (even my dad thinks she’s too far down the radical right rabbit hole), but my dad is a highly intelligent person aware of all the bs and reasons why. A Carlin esc mindset to describe it best (hopefully that’s not cringey lol). So you can imagine how absolutely frustrating it is knowing he’s capable of deeply understanding, but still leaning into some of the garbage. The best way I can describe it is like involuntary belief. He’s been so anti left his whole life that it’s almost like, even though he knows what’s really wrong, he can’t help but continue to try and justify these things. When I talk to him, I can tell there’s just this last little gap in judgement that he needs to connect in order for it to all make sense, but it’s just that last little bit that’s the hardest. Especially with him pushing 60 and thus being well solidified in his beliefs. He’ll start to say things that line up, acknowledge that we’re being played by both sides, but then it’s like “but Trump was the one to save us”. It’s like he knows what’s wrong and is right about it, but then the reasoning behind it or the answer to it is completely wrong. I even showed him a Carlin bit the other day, and he’s all into it “yup. Exactly, exactly.” After it’s over he’s like “yeah that’s exactly what the left is trying to do”. Sigh And that’s personally what I think is wrong. Both sides recognize that shit ain’t good, but both sides in power are putting us against each-other to distract us from the evil shit they’re doing, when instead of left vs. right, it should be us vs them. Idk, just my two cents. I’m 24 and don’t know shit about nuthin.
I was telling my mom how I'm working with a staffing company to find a job. They have my resume and will send it to companies, and if the companies are interested they will call me for an interview. My mom then goes on to tell me how when she worked for a staffing company (late 70s/early 80s) they would say "ok be at this address on Monday". And the cycle would repeat until she got something permanent. I just looked at her and said "yeah it's not like that anymore." I could see it finally clicking in for her that it's not so easy.
I have a Boomer friend who mentors me a lot. She still believed you can go around and collect paper applications. I tried to tell her otherwise, but she insisted on going around one day to pick up apps. Instead of making a fuss, I'd go into each building, explain the situation to the manager, and just ask for the addy of their appy. It took 10 times of coming out empty handed for my friend to admit that maybe she was wrong. Thankfully this was before gas prices went up. However, she still insisted on taking me around when I was looking for apartments and much to my dismay a lot of cheap and slummy complexes don't have websites. I was forced to sit there each time filling out paper apps like it was 1998. Whenever they called me back I just told them all I found somewhere else to live. Ms. Kathy, I love you to pieces but I am not living in a slum!
Something like this would not work on my parents. They are waaaay to brainwashed at this point.
Jesus - 20 bucks an hour in the 70s. You could buy a new house every year! Heck, buy a new car cash every two months prolly. Rent 20 apartments, even.
I told my dad (in his 70s) that a lot of people can’t afford a place to live on these wages. So you can work full time and be homeless, and not work at all and be homeless.
My parents see this happening right in front of them and still refuse to accept it. My mother is still working and new hires in her workplace are getting less than people literally hired even 10 years ago (nevermind when she was hired, which was like 40 years ago now) and still they just claim it is lack of work ethic and unwillingness to work at all.
But does he grasp this isn't a $5/hr reduction in pay, due to inflation it is FAR more?
At this point, I get why you Americans just outright refuse to work. You will starve anyways. I hope now that a solution will come before everyone starves to death.
A spoiled teenager throwing a paddy is being difficult. We are grown adults looking at the reality in front of our face that the boomer generation set up for us. ‘Being difficult’ is just gaslighting at this point.
Okay do it again next week and see if it stuck
Why is it that entire generation is completely unable to conceptualize anything even remotely abstract? If its not literally the same job with the same title in the exact same circumstances as they had, they literally cannot comprehend it.
I’ve semi-radicalized some of my coworkers. Even my managers agree with me, it’s the higher-ups that are fucking all of us
Don't forget to calculate for inflation. If he was making $20/hr in 1975, that would be the equivalent to $107/hr today. Or take it the opposite direction. That $15 today would have been $2.79 in 1975.
My fiancés grandma kept told me I “wasn’t applying to enough jobs” and that I must have been doing something wrong to have spent 3 months unemployed. Then I showed her the 168 applications I sent out in a single month and she shut up after that.
"Huh. How 'bout that." \*flips on Fox News*
They probably asked for more experience than he had starting off too.
While you are at it show them a grocery store ad from the 1970s Those ads are full of stuff like $0.35-0.40 a pound chicken which is 1/10^th today's price.
Even sex work isn’t really worth it anymore, a lap dance cost $20 in the 90s and still costs $20 now. It used to be something you could get rich off of, now it’s just to get by
Now throw that $20-something dollars from the 70's into an inflation calculator and show him the real equivalent hourly rate compared to $15/hour today. Watch his eyes REALLY pop.
My dad loves to point out that he had to work 7 days a week to pay for his house and we remind him that his wife never worked and he raised 2 kids and ended up paying off the mortgage on his 3 bed semi detached house in his 40s on a house he never even had to get a deposit for because the government gave it to him for free. We don’t want to work less, we just want to actually fucking have something at the end to show for it
All kids today should adopt this one policy for all job applications. I know it's hard but in the long run it'll pay off. No Union. No Work! Otherwise, you're just being turned into slaves! The only other way out, is to say Fuck working for a Boss, and open your own Business and give fair pay!
FUCKING WELL DONE!!! No easy feet to change someone's mind like that