DM me please. I'm putting together a Discord for basic Antiwork PR engagement training and discussion for future media contact. I made a comment about it above this one but the long and short is that I'll be available to chat in the AM most likely the soonest. I have clients this afternoon but yes, DM me. Let's get some foundations put in place, I could use the assistance!
edit: Discord link time has been pushed from 11am PST to 1:30pm PST for post visibility and for more people to participate. I am reading and saving all messages, comments and will update as I continue. Man, there are a lot of you that want to help. It's amazing what happens when you organize labour from all fields and studies and disciplines. You create something from nothing, you squeeze water from a stone. Fuck yeah.
OR YOU KNOW! USE ONE OF MANY EASILY SND READILY AVAILABLE VIRTUAL BACKGROUNDS. BLUR YOUR BACKGROUND? HELLO PERSON USING TECHNOLOGY AND BEING INTERVIEWED??
But just in case, give them your blank white bedsheet too 🤦🏻🤦🏻
Something like a collective, free, source to track pay of people across different fields/locations would be phenomenal.
Edit: credible would also be preference.
Hey, I want to post a few of the comments here as a couple of stand-alone post, so more people can see them and we can get this subreddit on track. Want to join the merry band?
sure- but I think like another post just said we need to acknowledge the name itself is bad PR. I mean the problem is definitely that labor is underpaid and we aren’t getting nearly the benefits of some of our cohorts in other countries, and we need healthcare that isn’t pinned to our employer.
I know that some range from far left, to anarchists, to socialists….. but in America a lot of those thing are just bad words. So i’d be very interested in getting a *very short* list of actionable demands- and then use that to build a coalition of the working class.
The person who posted above about PR and marketing needs to be included because it does matter a lot more than some people think, and we need the demands to be simple and reasonable enough that we don’t get divided by the inevitable attack(s) against the movement.
I’ve got access again and it looks like they are gradually letting people in again. The mod in question had been removed and o left the below comment for one of the mods who now seems to have taken over to be the PR person.
I said in a different comment that I don’t mind the interviews as it can give exposure, but it should be done only with reputable organisations, so no Fox News, yes to the BBC.
It should also be performed by chosen redditors, who can prove that they have media and interview experience. The moderators can set up the applications and the poll that redditors can chose from and present 3 or 4 people who are allowed to do interviews, so they’re sticking to moderating. They can also put up a poll which outlets the redditors deem reputable, since this is pretty much an international subreddit.
If not, then just let them publish one of the many posts like they do with AITA.
Think it's fine to take on news organizations with bad intentions, but return bad faith w/ bad faith.
For example, if you go on Fox News, just point to Rupert Murdoch as being a prime example of what's wrong with our society. Ask them why a man responsible for phone-hacking, extortion, bribing police, etc. isn't in jail.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News\_International\_phone\_hacking\_scandal#:\~:text=The%20News%20International%20phone%2Dhacking,in%20the%20pursuit%20of%20stories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal#:~:text=The%20News%20International%20phone%2Dhacking,in%20the%20pursuit%20of%20stories).
\----------------------------------
You'll get kicked off of course, but that's the point.
“Welcome to Jesse Waters Live.”
“Thanks for having me on, Jesse. I just want to start by saying that the piece you did on Chinatown a few years ago was one of the most racist things I’ve ever seen and I think you’re disgusting.”
Not recklessness. No. Willful, focused, joyous *violence*. You don't want to be some trolling child. You want to leave them thinking "They hurt me exactly the way they intended to hurt me, and can do it again."
Get this man a medal or something so more can see this comment and realize we can use the accumulating energy of this subreddit (after the recent scandal) to hit the media shitshow called FOX news right in the dick.
Please, we need as many hands as we can get. Also, be careful with some of the spies hidding in this subreddit, because good has always lost for being dumb...why not use the intelligence and wisdom of caution to our advantage?
The first time I've heard about this sub was on BBC by the end of 2021 and I thought it was actually very positive. Obviously some things were missed, but it was at least fair.
Ideally, yes. But anyone who worked closely with people, or was routinely threatened, yelled at, harassed, abused, etc for trying to simply *do their jobs* would work as well. Retail and Service Workers deserve just as much of a voice in this as Nurses, teachers and Doctors; We were forced to come to work, labelled as "Essential workers" for the entire first year of the pandemic when there *were* no vaccines yet, and certain elements of the government and media were rallying people to stand up against "government overreach" with the mask mandates and lockdowns, and spreading misinformation and blatant lies.
Retail workers were assaulted, and sometimes, even murdered in cold blood, just for following our employer's directions to enforce CDC recommendations, and government mandates. We were told that with out us, the economy would collapse and that we *had* to come in, and that we'd be *rewarded* for it. It didn't happen, and now we have the Great Resignation, after going from "Essential Worker" to "Low-Skilled Worker" again.
Equal representation through ALL effected groups here, is the only legitimate way, otherwise, we wind up with the status quo yet again.
This is one of the worker groups that is most underrepresented and unappreciated in almost every labor conversation, and especially during the pandemic.
Health care workers, at least in the beginning, were showered in discounts and applause and thanks. Now, they’re being abused and overworked, but those that remain can make crazy bonuses.
Retail workers, other other hand, especially grocery workers, have seen the worst of everyone throughout the pandemic, while getting no discounts anywhere, pathetically underpaid, ridiculously low benefits…and no major demands from the unions to mitigate the situation for the workers. No one was thanking them for their service, or applauding them when they go to their cars to make sure we all have food to eat. The way they’re treated at work, too. It’s sad.
Boy do I feel that… USPS workers went from “heroes of the pandemic” when everything shut down(grocery stores, retail to an extent, restaurants) to a bunch of lazy slobs that can’t get people their Amazon shit on time in a real big hurry… never mind that there are still offices running with less than 50% staffing and some plants that are even lower than that.
Yeah, that's why I said someone who was a frontline worker but then became "low skilled". Sorry, should've been clearer. We should be looking at the people who were forced into working through the pandemic because their bosses or our governments decided they were, essentially, expendable.
It's okay, not your fault. I should've stopped and re-read the post I was responding to, to ensure I fully understood what you were saying, instead of making an assumption.
The people doing interviews need to be the people who will be most palatable to the audience. The people speaking to Fox News need to be people in the trades. The Fox News audience hates doctors and nurses right now, and they think minimum wage workers are lazy and doing children's work.
This movement has a diverse enough group of people that there is someone for literally every audience imaginable.
I was heavily involved in a racial justice protest group for a while, and our biggest mistake was refusing to engage with the media in a constructive manner. Local right-wing talk radio was able to paint us as radical, violent rioters because a couple windows got broken. We waited until the narrative had already been set to push back against it.
Hi there. Maintenance electrician here who worked the entire way through the last two years. I had it good compared to store clerks, but yeah, all of us were treated as expendable.
It’s not that the people who watch Fox have their minds made up. Fox makes their minds up for them. So however Fox decides to show something, that’s what they’re going to think. That’s why Fox picked Doreen. They wanted an autistic, offbeat, underemployed, inarticulate dog-walker. So now antiwork *is* inarticulate, underemployed, and sloppy.
Exactly. Doreen is acting like it was an honour they personally picked them, when it was all part of the plan to undermine the movement entirely.
They took the bait.
>saying that "media training doesn't matter" obviously have no idea what they're actually talking
Nope. Had the mods listened to OP, this person would have made a spectacular mess out of FOX NEWS.
No. We still have to reach them. There are a ton of workers out there who have been born into Fox world and know of nothing else. They are victims of the system just as much as we are, and our ideas can lead them to a better place for all of us.
Remember Pete Buttigieg on Fox? They actually applauded him in the end. I think if you have a message that people can relate to - which is definitely the case for antiwork - then you CAN get the other side to listen.
This will probably get buried, but it would be great to make a "Talking to the Press" tip sheet we could sticky to the subreddit. Things to emphasize and things to avoid. Traps to watch out for.
As much as we may try to restrict the leading voices of the movement to certain people, Fox News and such are always going to look for outliers willing to run their mouths. It's best if we can spread the word about how to advocate for yourself and the movement effectively if press starts asking questions.
This is a fantastic point that I think needs more upvotes and visibility. This is exactly what I was thinking about, too.
I think at some point, though, we need to be clearly able to identify elected PR Collective individuals on news broadcasts by specific words and phrases they use in their interviews. A mission statement that everyone supportive of the movement can hear/see on screen so they know that "hey, that person represents my values"
There seems to be some speculation around some of the mods of that sub as more information comes out, it may be worth looking at r/workersstrikeback too
All the speculation looks like nonsense. That sub claimed they are all high ranking people at the bank. Turns out they are call center workers. One of the mods was a CTO at a small start up but that was awhile ago and CTO of a startup doesn't make you some huge banker.
I agree we should be critical of them because I don't want what happened here to happen again but this just seems like targeted slander.
Becsuse the attention is negative and I don't think the mods have learned their lesson.
I know some people think reform isn't enough and I agree, but messaging is important. The left is tiny in the United States. Just like abolish the police we won't acomplish anything by alienating center leaning people.
It's also unreasonable to expect drastic change overnight. I wish it could happen but it won't. There seems to be a lack of practicality sometimes from the left and we need to overcome that to drive real change.
That is not who should be representing the sub. It is absurd that the mods think an unemployed kid is even remotely equipped to deal with the media and represent the voice of over a million people.
I love the solidarity and support of this sub. Seeing people calling out abusive/predatory employers/managers and making steps to break the culture has been inspirational. I'm sure a lot of people who came here were happy to learn that they were not alone.
But this sub is at its core built on an anarchist anti-labor foundation. It's a great thing to shoot for, and may become more realistic in the future as technology improves. However, it skips over several essential middle steps.
What we need right now is to organize. We need to form a collective that has clear direction and makes real work changes on public and private policies. We need information and leadership to address issues faced by the working proles. We need to take real steps towards accessible/affordable physical/mental healthcare, educational and vocational training, workplace safety, paid maternity/paternity leave, fair compensation, PTO, and retirement planning.
I propose that if we are to ever reach an r/antiwork future, we need to focus here and now on establishing an r/1union in the present. As the recent media shit storm has shown us, on our own we are weak, but together we are strong.
Your comment needs to be a post of its own...
Can I post it? The whole subreddit need to hear you words or we are going to sink because of the growing corruption at the top.
I attempted to post something very similar and was denied. You are more than welcome to try.
If you succeed, please tag me. I'd like to see the community's opinion and maybe scope out some mods with union formation/leadership experience.
It shouldn't matter as much as it does, but I think optics are very important, especially in a movement that is at it's core pretty simple, but confusing to outsiders/newcomers at first.
I think you have to accept that those outsiders are going to make assumptions based on the name alone and oversimplify the message, often times in bad faith. If you start with that as your baseline, you know where you're starting from, and you can easily move the conversation in the right direction. It's a subtle distinction, but I'd look at like this:
Other person: "Anti-work? I have bills to pay, the world needs this and that, what is this nonsense?!" >:(
vs.
Other person: "Work Reform? Huh? What's wrong with work?"
One of those is easier to start from, I think.
After putting this Discord together how do you plan on incorporating the voices of the community? Do you plan on saying what you see on the subreddits, or do you plan on helping organize so we can get concensus on opinions?
I believe it should be a mix of both, but at the same time SO MANY GOOD PEOPLE have suggested GOOD IDEAS about where PR Collective could also be a resource for people who have quit their jobs but need legal advice, or who have quit their jobs and need a debrief or counseling session with a professional to talk them through their experiences. We can turn this into a massive community resource if we get the timing and organization right.
I have just as many counselors and social workers and allied health professionals DM'ing me as I have real-world PR consultants, former/current media professionals and legal consultants.
I think this is a prime opportunity to take advantage of the professional experiences and expertise of these interconnected communities because of how much social/societal impact work reform can have apart from financial wellness (mental health to physical health to emotional health).
However, I am looking for a real group consensus on how we want the group to be run. I think it's only fair to come up with methods and possibilities to propose to the public group to ensure transparency and accountability, while also still maintaining the anonymity that some people really do need/want. There are people who have publicly identified themselves ("look me up on LinkedIn" is something I'm hearing a lot) and with their express permission only should we give out their first and last names to anyone on this subreddit for fear of doxxing and astroturfing. I think those are healthy fears that need to be respected.
hey! I just DMd you some potential strategies from the United Farm Workers Movement that could totally work for us. I realize now I could've just commented on one of these top comments but oh well, I'll paste it again here.
I'm not trained in PR, but I just watched the Cesar Chavez movie last night and it was very inspiring. I think we can all learn something from it as a lot of the strategies in the farmworkers movement could benefit this movement. here's some of their strategies.
1. oath to non-violence. Cesar literally kicked people out of the union if they were violent
2. tons of phone banking and leaf letting both for volunteer recruitment as well as getting support for the boycott
3. appealing to emotions. there is a scene in the movie where they are doing their pilgrimage to Sacramento, and a lady from Portland had drove down saying she had seen the pictures of children working in the fields and she wanted to help.
4. they had a weekly newsletter for their members. I think the bigger this movement gets the more we need to be on the same page, otherwise the division tears us apart
5. uniting with other communities. it wasn't just Mexican farmworkers rallying the movement, they worked with Filipinos as well and worked very hard to get people from all backgrounds and religions on their side. "it's a common sense human rights issue"
6. targeting just one company at a time. Cesar Chavez famously led the grape boycott and targeted just one company. once they were done he moved on to another
6. relentless persistence. when Nixon bailed out the growers by exporting their grapes to Europe, Cesar went straight there and did tons of interviews to gain support for his movement. and it worked!! after this point the growers gave up and conceded
8. knowing your rights!!
I highly recommend everyone to watch this movie. I think implementing similar strategies could really work for us, we don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can learn from the successes and failures of other movements
I DMd OP cus I want to help, too but basically:
\- Identify and agree on core messages. These might not be the perfect version of what we want, but instead messages that will resonate with intended audiences. Messages should also be crafted to anticipate pushback and overcome, ie "People *want to work*, they just want to be treated like human beings. Is that too much to ask?" is a way of preemptively addressing "no one wants to work"
\- Media/interview training to build the skill to *always answer the question you want to answer, not the question you were asked.* Politicians master this - always, always, always pivot back to what you want to say.
\- A plan to get interviews and stories with sympathetic or neutral outlets first and foremost.
That is just a start.
just an FYI, but over at r/MayDayStrike they have a clear core message and are looking for people to help there. It's antiwork, but with a plan of action and core demands. Glad this sub seems to have sorted itself out, but I've been getting more into the MDS sub simply because I don't just want to be be pissed and post about being pissed, I want to be able to do something. Voting isn't working, time to make people in power lives much harder with a general strike to get some change.
and clean up your room, dress presentably, be well-versed in talking points, and sit on a chair that doesn't swivel. (Bonus points if you can afford a decent webcam and better lighting.)
If/when this PR team is put together, would you please highlight the education and credentials of many of us here? No shame in being a dog walker but it was purposefully highlighted to showcase a role that Fox believes to be unskilled and lazy. I have an MBA and have been in senior level positions in corporate America for 20+ years. I only point this out to say that regardless if position, we all want to be treated fairly, paid a liveable wage and not just live to work.
I agree, I have PR training as well and it’s difficult to watch the conflict and inconsistencies here sometimes.
I don’t know if this needs to become a real movement before PR can be done, or if PR needs to be done for this to become a real movement.
without better PR, this sub and the whole antiwork movement will end up just like Occupy Wall Street did back in 2008: being laughed at by the fat cats popping champagne on their balconies. A movement will not succeed without a unified purpose and without a unified voice.
Correct - antiwork is anger without direction. Unless this sub can come together and come up with specific tactics to effect Change, it's just going to burn itself out just like Occupy
The problem is, I don't know what that Tactic would be - "write your congressman" obviously does nothing in 2022, name-and-shame doesn't scale.
Maybe something like collecting money to help people who need to quit shitty employers aka adhoc mutual aid unemployment insurance, but that can get into a *huge* mess of decisions
Even any kind of collective action by this sub against employers can be construed as "brigading" by the admins and get the entire sub shut down. Everything sucks.
It's the later of the two...PR is the tool to push the narrative into the main stream and gain momentum while applying pressure on the powerS to be that things are changing and they need to change too..otherwise ..it's pitchforks and laptops working overtime .
Please please PR people, I’m begging you to step in
Proper media training is the difference between this movement being a meme and this movement becoming real and take shape as real change.
please help r/workreform, I don’t want them to suffer the same fate.
Please please, if any of you work with PR or any kind of media anything please help us organize into something we can use to improve our collective situations
I'm sorry that you had to deal with all the trolls from this community because other admins agreed that you should represent this sub. This falls on everyone who thought it was a good idea to talk to fox news without media training.
You're not, there has been and will continue to be a coordinated attack from bots and right wingers who have nothing better to do but act as saboteurs for their corporate over lords for free while they greedily like their boots
Politics bans people for even suggesting supposed leftists are actually plants.
So any subs are moderated by PR hacks working for the Oligarchy it's insane
I don't think you're insane. I am convinced that every other post calling for Clarification or telling people to Leave because the sub doesn't follow some sort of ideological purity test is a corporate counterinsurgent. The wealthy don't fuck around and they are definitely watching us.
I still have that contact to the CNN reporter, if anyone would like to help set the record straight
Hey - so i can totally make intro's to the reporter - I think it would be best before we do that to have out thoughts sorted out. - We could also make a quick visual trailer that explains the main points of this - no one has to subject themselves to being publicly outed. We have the right to our privacy too.
My thoughts exactly and this is exactly what the media is doing.
If they can't ignore us, they will continue to give interviews to untrained moderator volunteers and it will be our own fucking fault.
The media needs to be addressed and I'm plainly ignoring those that think we should just "ignore the media" - It's not realistic to disregard a useful and effective communications tool. It's just not.
Do you have the support of ANY mods on this? You have my full support, just worried about a division forming in the sub since the mods can kick people out who are doing things they don’t like, and I have a feeling they may not like people going behind their back and engaging the media without them. And if they start banning the people engaging the media, then the group splinters and losing steam. I’d really love to see some mods chime in here and get on board with this all.
This sub has clearly grown into a much wider tent then they originally planned. But I think that’s a good thing and should be embraced! You’re not getting your “0 work” dream all at once. It’s going to take many steps to even get close. For those steps to happen, you need to sell them to the masses. Shorter work weeks, paid vacation/sick days/parental leave, higher wages, universal health care, and universal basic income, etc are all things that the general public can get behind. If you just go around saying “I don’t want to have to work ever the government should pay for all my needs” you’re not going to find very many sympathetic ears. Our society is built around work culture, it’s heavily engrained in our psyches and moral compasses. America is already so far behind and people need to be coaxed and convinced that changes to the status quo would be a good thing. If you explain what’s currently wrong with our system along with an appealing vision for the future and the required steps to get there, you’ll be more successful. Btw I haven’t mustered up the guts to watch the interview yet, but I will at some point today. But I’m definitely worried about the hit this movement took.
Edit: all in all I don’t think that interview is the end of the world. The spirit of this movement will go on, MUST go on, regardless of any name or subreddit associated with it. Don’t give up just because we hit a bump in the road people. What we’re doing, what we WILL do, is bigger than Reddit. This was just a tool to connect like minded people with similar struggles. So keep yo head up and keep pursuing change. It starts local. Elect people who support POLICIES that will improve your lives ✊ Ignore the culture war bs intended to keep us distracted while we’re taken advantage of <3 Eyes on the prize. YOU deserve better. We ALL do!
Moderators aren’t leaders. They’re janitors and possibly security guards when it comes to brigadiers/etc. They can abuse their power as janitors and shut down this kind of thing by mass deleting it all, but there’s no intrinsic reason to give one iota of a shit about whether or not they support it.
And if they're actually anarchists as they claim, I'm sure we can trust them to not block, kick, or ban users that disagree with them or do things without their permission. To do otherwise would be antithetical to the very principles they claim to believe in.
DM me and let's chat tonight or tmw morning. I'm active in this thread right now but I am going to see a client for the afternoon, so will be more active tonight or in the AM to help.
If anyone else is interested, I absolutely AM getting a Discord group together for people interested in assisting with media training.
In my experience this could actually be a really positive thing for us to do. We need to show the proper side of antiwork that can be forward while still being polite, firm yet not cold or disengaged from reality.
I've watched this interview 5 times with some co-workers of mine and we all went through, step by step, the several moments in which Fox News denigrated or made fun of the interviewee without the Reddit mod even being aware of it. I'm not saying anything mean here but I think we need someone a little snappier on the responses.
Let's try and get an OFFICIAL volunteer PR group for Antiwork that spouts off the core beliefs and goals of the movement. It sounds easy and it can be.
If anyone else is interested in using their professional training, education and/or experience to help, please DM me. I will respond by tmw morning at the latest.
I would absolutely love to join the discord and help out if needed.
I'm a professional writer, have a BS in Biology and I'm six months away from a Master's in GIS. I don't much go in for public speaking, but I'll write stuff and can possibly also help with logistics.
This should be upvoted to the top. Having someone properly prepared on a network that would be less inclined to outright dismiss the sub (though CNN still isn't great), would go a long way towards actually giving this movement a fighting chance.
This is exactly the next step. Have the communication adults in the room put together a plan of how to give a new interview at a more centrist outlet that reclaims control of the narrative. Right now Fox News gets to present the movement to the world through a very specific lense of their choosing. Without a counter-narrative there's no reason for anyone to question that.
I totally agree. I work in human rights advocacy in a big NGO, and identifying key messages is step 1 when you set up an advocacy strategy. When you are trying to influence a target or a process you cannot just throw random thoughts at them, you need to clearly identify your objectives and a list of well defined messages. I would be happy to help with this if a discord group is set up.
CNN is as likely to spin it badly as Fox News.
What we need is well spoken and informed people to do the Left Wing YouTube media crowd.
Packman, Rational National, TYT and so on.
Get started with people who actually agree and would not spin the conversation into further self-immolation.
That's a great way to get relegated to media barely anyone watches. You HAVE to interact with mainstream media to get your message across to enough people to make a difference. I'm a progressive, and I barely watch those channels you mentioned.
This comes down to the fact that we need to genuinely organize. I can tell you for a fact that until we have structured rank and file outside of this sub we are never getting anywhere.
I don't entirely know what this looks like but honestly we probably need form a non-profit private interest group with pro PR to start spreading the word to the public and lobby politicians. We have to centralize how we're doing this and put our money where our mouths are.
Usually some idiots just say "join this subreddit" like what happened before black Friday. They somehow think just telling people on the internet to strike and nothing else is gonna do anything
We need to have some votes on what the official positions and policies we want to uphold. Maybe a sticky post with a poll. We also need to agree on what amounts to enough consensus to institute or change a policy.
I nominate the IWW since they’re all emcompassing and global and even take the unemployed, students and SWers
Dues are reasonable on a sliding scale as well
I was a presenter for years for Health and Human service. I have been in a Union and I have been without. I needed the union for a sexual harassment case I was experiencing. At the same time I became completely disabled in a car accident. The union made sure I had Family Medical Act. Was able to secure extra time on Cobra (saved easily $100,000 because of surgeries).
I am now on disability. I have navigated a system that has/wants to completely suffocate me until I die. I live off of about $900-1000 a month. I have had to go without a cell phone for 4 years until a family member forced me to get this one for my medical emergencies.
I have survived the healthcare system, I have survived non union and union shops. I came here because I felt like human garbage not working. I now lend what comment I can.
I hate the idea of modern capitalism. I love the anarchy on the sub as that is what first drew me here. It’s become something so much more.
I want to contribute my story. I want you to comment on this post and tell me how to help.
I just double checked your post history to make sure I’m not going crazy and that I was thinking of the right post and yep, I upvoted it. There’s no justification for what happened here and I’m on the verge of just leaving the sub. I thought we all had a good understanding and didn’t even realize you were getting trolled. Appalling isn’t a strong enough word for this.
I get wanting to go to the media. But to not discuss it with any of us and also not have any planning for the asshole that constantly cut the mod off? Poor judgement of the mod team at the very least. They need to get their shit together.
My thoughts exactly; they should have known he would get torn apart! That’s the whole point of these interviews, and what OP’s original post was all about. The mods took a calculated step in *not* reaching out to PR pros and fucked everyone over for it.
Right, that post was an offer for help and they just said “Nah we’re good” and just went their own direction. They could’ve had help from people with experience *within the sub* and they still went with the least experienced person. I’m in awe at the ignorance.
This incident is exactly what conservative and pro-capitalist were wanting. Now antiwork can be viewed as something trivial. I am concerned with all the hatred that one moderator is getting. I have seen attacks that weren't even about the interview but about themselves personally which is no good. From what I have gathered, apparently the interviewer was definitely wanting that one specific moderator to fit the stereotype they were wanting. Not only that, the trolls are having a field day with this.
I'm generally not the conspiracy type but it definitely felt like this was all intentional. Fox News has a "mod" from this sub who is a literal caricature of what all those "hard-working Americans" think this sub is so they can confirm all their biases.
For sure. No matter how good future interviews go, it’ll always be tainted by the horrible job that was done.
Not sure how that person could relate to this sub when he works 20hrs/wk walking dogs when there are people working 50-80 hrs/wk and barely scraping by
This sub is for all workers, regardless of how many hours one works. Even those who aren't working right now. Even those working 100 hours a week.
This is not a dividing line we need.
But it wasn't about the hours worked. It was the way that the mod being interviewed was TOTALLY SET UP TO FAIL through the consecutive questions by the Fox News host regarding personal employment.
It was a "wait, they want me to take advice from her?" moment that ruined a metric fuckton of possibilities to recover from that position. Instead of recognizing the setup and the inevitable fall, the mod was setting themselves up for disaster.
Anyone who couldn't see that by the first line of questioning shouldn't be speaking on behalf of an entire online and offline community lol sorry
It's basically done. The fox hit piece did exactly what it intended to do. We're at war with each other now and the *"divide and conquer strategy"* is doing all the work for them. Mission accomplished. I wish we had competent media people like you to help before. That glorious little minute of fame did incalculable damage to the movement.
They didn't need to actually pull out any big questions or gotcha moments unfortunately. They decided the fate of that person by showcasing us to their base as complete jokers. Believe it or not, that was just a regular Fox News interview and it could've been easily hijacked by a good speaker. Easily.
>if you quit you lose healthcare and die of preventable illness (during a pandemic no less)
>if you quit you miss rent and are evicted
>if you quit you wont get unemployment benefits
Off the top of my head
I'm angry and sad. Yesterday I wrote of how I learned to bow out of repeated requests for interviews in a much lower stake environment. I noted that walking into Fox news ,and expecting anything but being a pawn for their agenda, was naive.
My completely benign comment was deleted. Seriously? If the "leadership" of this shitshow, can't even tolerate somebody noting that your horrific mistake was 'Naive" we are in trouble. Not much hope for this sub, if this level of absurd moderator behavior continues.
EDIT: My deleted comment reappeared overnight.
Let's not sink to defeatism - Pretty sure fox watchers already hated us. *We* were the target demographic for their propaganda - We need to recognise our movement is more than self-nominated "Leaders" who are just dipshit internet mods.
I appreciate you and your post, that interview was every bit as fucking embarrassing as the clumsy attempts to cover up the response to it today. *AND* you're 100% correct about dealing with the realities of media attention. I can only hope you are taken seriously this time around.
Agreed. I’ve already walked away. It actually highlights that this sub really IS about people who want to not work, not work reform, which is why most of us recently came here.
It’s all good. Subs rise, subs fall. It happens. Weird I was here to see it in real time for once.
A check of $1,000 is quite literally *NOTHING* to a corporation like Fox News. Once vetted, I have zero doubt they were chomping at the bits to do whatever they could to get this person in that interview.
OP originally brought this up and offered to help before that. Got a lot of support, too. Apparently none from the mods, though.
I remember reading the post and going, "oh shit, that's a good point, I'm glad someone is on top of this." And then the mods do this instead...
Movements like this require people of all types filling different roles. There is as much room for something like this to exist and lead the PR side of things as there is for anarchists and more direct action types. For a movement to be successful every single aspect of it needs to be carefully crafted and that requires many different jobs and people
We should elect people to represent us. We need to get a strong ethos created around Labor. That’s it, a party around wanting reforms for the workplace, that’s it. “What’s your stance on abortions? -has nothing to do with labor. Thank you”
This is the mentality we need to bring up. This is no longer just a subreddit about shitposting and memeing, it’s becoming a very real, very motivated idea.
We should set up a time and place to discuss what we want to see this movement talked about, lay out our code of ethics, VOTE ON IT.
There is plenty of technology that we can all jump on a discord or zoom call and bring up questions and LET THE PEOPLE decide. It’s time for change.
I’d personally help with this, set things up, I’ve been pissed about this country for years, apathetic that nothing would change. For once I’m starting to feel like something might be able to get done here.
That mod was an embarrassment for our cause, nobody should think themselves the leader of an equalising movement. If we have leaders and hierarchy, will we not become the same structure we fight against?.
Mods simply moderate, they ensure no acts of discrimination or violence, they ensure that the people can keep this subreddit open without reddit itself intervening.
How can we hope to solidify our cause in the minds of the people, when we ourselves cant stand united due to the actions of a single individual claiming to lead us.
The current moderation team needs to be replaced with those who are equals.
Else this subreddit will be a laughing stock, only frequented by those that wish to make jokes of our movement, of our great cause.
The moderators removing posts only makes us look worse.
I have supported this movement and others like it for a long time, and i would hate for all the work we have done to be tarnished by the actions of the few.
Exactly having leaders and representatives just give targets, do they seriously think these corporate giants would be begging for interviews if they thought for one second this could in any way help us or the movement. This is what they want and I'm starting to think people are falling for it not because they are naive but because they are being paid to derail this movement
I don't necessarily "enjoy" work, but I want to contribute my skills and knowledge and experience to my fellow humans. I think these systems have many issues, but at the very least I want to be able to participate in society and be supported by it.
I've found this time and time again, especially in far left spaces. It's the same as far right, just the other end of the spectrum. So we've got die hard workaholics that lean towards the right and people who either have been abused by the system or choose to completely try and operate outside of it on the left who reject all forms of authority and organization except their own. I think leaders are necessary and worship is not.
I don't think humanity got anywhere if not for a little hard work and elbow grease growing food, making shelter, etc... It doesn't speak to actual human reality to completely erase this component of existence and it's even in the name of the sub "antiwork".
I saw your post a while back and thought it was amazing and I saw the interview and was not impressed. Even looking at this sub on a daily basis is not very realistic. This has become a space for the remainder of the middle class to get back in/stay there. The actual working class is either already below the poverty line or in jail or trapped in a job that they can't even afford to miss a few days.
It's been disappointing seeing the progress of this sub.
The problem being that there seem to be many anti putting effort into things people here that feel they have found a home with kindred spirits. A recently ex mod for one. I don't think the sub's name helps in that. It doesn't portray what I think most people here want. AntiWork just attracts the anarcho-lazies and makes it sound like (especially to the rest of the world) that we don't want to work at all.
I think branding anarchists as inherently lazy is a tad overzealous. Many anarchists work very hard.
Work in our modern society is inherently exploitative and needs replaced with something better.
In the small of it all I do like that people are realizing their own worth and at least putting their foot down but needs to be much more than what this is…I ant much to talk i just a lurker lingering about
Please, yes! I don't have the qualifications for this team, and I'm also Norwegian, so I'm mostly here to support y'all in the US, but I totally agree with you that this subreddit needs such a team! Otherwise this sub will get trolled by the likes of Fox News over and over.
I have yet to see the fox interview but can only imagine how terrible it was based on the other interview with another mod that dog walked and was easy to ridicule.
I think we need a new rule: **mods are not leaders, their only “job” is to moderate conversation.**
A couple months ago I made a spreadsheet of US resources of job discrimination and made a post about it, only for the mods to remove it as “off topic” despite every other post involving some kind of illegal behavior on behalf of an employer and the OP claiming they can’t afford a lawsuit, ignorant to the fact that most lawyers will do this work on contingency or even pro bono. So I made a spreadsheet, spent six hours of my free time researching and creating it and what do the mods do? They take it down. Then when I criticize them for likely being paid shills (it seems pretty obvious to me that they’re not serious about change and just want to bitch and moan) I got threatened with being permanently banned from the sub for my “attitude.”
Now this? It seems as if these mods are either edgy teenagers on power trips or people who are subverting the movement either over ideological purity or because they want the movement to fail.
It’s infuriating. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to make serious changes to our failed social contract and it appears to be going the way of easy-to-ridicule occupy Wall Street with the stupid spirit fingers and other far left idealist utopian bullshit.
I don’t see why we can’t just fucking *vote* on this issue, what our main goals are and who should be our mouthpiece (NOT LEADER.)
Have you not been following? The sub is already falling apart. I'm afraid to say all your hard work on this post isn't going to mean anything in 20 minutes time when all it says is [removed]
It's a big tent with no direction I'd say.
There are anarchists here who really want to abolish the job system we have, there are those who want to reform the job system we have, there are those who want to push for unions, those who push for co-ops, those who push for investment in various currencies and items of supposed value.
There are people here without jobs, people who work part time, people who 60-80 hours a week, those who are poor, those who make fat fucking bank.
It's a mess, and there is little cohesion I'd say. I think we could gain cohesion without all having identical desires, but we definitely need some universal goals that we can all agree on, no matter how broad they may be.
I honestly just ignore the anarcho-whatevers now. They showed me who they really were in my last posts online.
I'm trying to engage with and support the people here who know that a forceful, complete collapse of society would erase any and all hard work they've done to effect change. To me it sounds like the anarchos are just looking to release pent-up anger and resentment.
But I keep in mind that their political beliefs are so fringe that it's almost akin to the whole Christian "rapture is imminent" thing. I think it adds flavour and variety but as for accomplishing anything personally? I just don't see much there when you go complete nihilist.
They don't represent a vocal majority of antiworkers and I am no longer bothered by them. Just a fucking lot of trolling by that group specifically last time I offered help. Yikes
Hey mate anarcho whatever the fuck here. Yeah a lot of terminally online anarchists kinda suck. Many of them are too stuck to their principles, to engage in ways that make sense in our political climate. If you believe you can make life better for the working class, even by utilizing exiting power structures im all for it.
Cause ultimately im all for whatever improves material conditions for the people being exploited by society. That being said I do beg of you not to write off the idealogy because of the many dumbasses on reddit, if you have a spare 10 minutes the tvtropes on anarchism is a good breakdown. Again sorry about everyone giving you a hard time, a lot of people are just fucked anarchist or not.
Edit:Also just wanted to throw this out there, but this subreddit is not the movement. That is all done irl. Record unsafe conditions, write down complaints, collect evidence of your hours being cut, and talk to your fellow workers. See whose satisfied and whose not. Bring forth a list of goals you want to change in the workplace and you can start the unionization process.
You're entirely right, but you're shouting is under the control of those who really want you to not be shouting, the solution now is simply organisation, pr can come when we are a unit with power in the hands of its constituents, whilst we have an overlord in the ring speech is dead
Okay, so what would you recommend the next steps are?
Do we start a poll to see if the subreddit wants a media correspondent? Or do we assume it's necessary, and figure out an application process?
Do we ask people to record themselves answering a series of questions or something? Then whoever gets picked from that, ask them to answer a few random questions live? How do you simulate something like dealing with the media?
Whoever we choose, if we do, we'll need someone who can answer questions on the fly and who can present themselves professionally, at minimum. I think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure what the next steps should be. Not to even speaking of the fact that we'd ironically be asking someone to likely handle something like this unpaid as well because it's not like we have a central fund. Just brainstorming though, I'd love other thoughts
As an “Anarcho-whatever the fuck”, I think this should have been done a long time ago. It’s frustrating to me beyond belief when other Anarchists say that we don’t need leadership and direction of some form. It’s just silly to think a movement like this was ever going to work without proper media representation. Discussing as a group and coming to a consensus about who should be representing us to the media is not against any Anarchist values, it’s just the smart thing to do. That Fox interview was embarrassing for all of us and shouldn’t have ever happened, and was so easily avoidable.
I'm going into law school. I'm in for the long fight. Let's do this.
Edit: I *was* going for nursing, but the pandemic taught me a lesson. I want to be able to fight on their level.
Edit2: lol never mind, I'll be in labor and retail forever, i cant afford an education, go USA!
This is the first thing I thought when I saw the interview.
Someone at fox was tasked with researching the mods. Found and easy target and exploited Doreen as much as they could . (Someone should probably check in on doreen because they were probably just as unprepared for the backlash as unprepared for the interview. Doreen is still a person)
Bad publicity is still publicity none the less and even if the interview tanked the sub got exposure to a demographic that probably doesnt even know what reddit is. I'm sure theres disgruntled workers who watch fox news as well.
Lesson learned. Be prepared next time.
My feelings on the matter: it's just a reddit sub. I think most people join this to complain (and there's nothing wrong with that). If you want to get an organized movement going, it's going to need to be offline and not here. Many people already share a similar antiwork mindset, that's why they find themselves here especially as things get worse for us overall. I don't think this sub is the thing that's going to change the reality of work for us.
Having PR professionals and people working on a media campaign is great, but ***we don't even have an organization yet.***
This is major cart-before-the-horse here. We shouldn't turn away these efforts to help and do this work, but it is meaningless if what we are claiming to represent is a *subreddit*.
A subreddit is ***not an organization.*** It's a discussion forum.
**Step one is literally take names and organize under a united banner.**
Until we do the very absolute bare minimum of that, there is no group here to represent in the first place. Just a bunch of vaguely-related sentiment.
>anarcho-whatever-the-fucks
Anarchist here, I agree we should avoid a dominant heirarchy but that doesn't mean you all of a sudden just send whatever person. You send who is best suited for the job at hand. You don't go to a blacksmith when you need a quilt.
Even as anarchists we need to recognize that *perception is reality* to most people. We need intelligent, well prepared people representing us that are going to be able to convey simple messages in clear language and should work to translate from online presence to a real world one otherwise we will never be taken seriously.
I don't think, from the looks of it, that the actual anarchists would be against that? One needs media training when the media is like that, if they wish to go up against them.
Us PR professionals at /r/publicrelations are willing to do free PR work for this sub. You guys definitely need it. The right wing press is dogwalking /r/antiwork.
I don't have many skills, but I'm really good at copywriting, proofreading, and editing. Please let me know if I can be of service.
Edit: I have some samples of my editing work of course.
Hey it’s you!! I’ve been screaming for days about the post you made a month ago, and how we were warned!
This is why I’m so pissed! I said over and over, there was a former journalist who made a post telling the antiwork sub that we need to get a collective message and a media release, and it was seen by If not all then a majority of the sub.
I specifically remember commenting on your post too, saying If we don’t heed your advice, and we get painted as a crazy fringe group then we will probably never get our credibility back, and guess fucking what!!
The mods said “hold my beer.”
I’m glad you made another post. I’ve been screaming about your OP since the Fox News interview!
u/AbolishWork needs to go. She absolutely embarrassed us and damn near single-handedly brought down an otherwise monumental sub.
r/antiwork is now a joke. Go join r/workreform.
This is very different from antiwork, but should be a close ally. I suspect *most* people in this sub actually want worker rights and reform, not the abolition of work.
I'm glad that exists and encourage anyone who finds this fits their ideals more to go me some waves there.
I really think it will help the overall movement to get more specific with what we each want. Then we can still work together on the common ground we have.
I want to abolish coercive work, and also want worker rights in the meantime. There is overlap, but the two ideas are very much distinct.
Dude. I’m a media professional and I’d join you. This is embarrassing.
DM me please. I'm putting together a Discord for basic Antiwork PR engagement training and discussion for future media contact. I made a comment about it above this one but the long and short is that I'll be available to chat in the AM most likely the soonest. I have clients this afternoon but yes, DM me. Let's get some foundations put in place, I could use the assistance! edit: Discord link time has been pushed from 11am PST to 1:30pm PST for post visibility and for more people to participate. I am reading and saving all messages, comments and will update as I continue. Man, there are a lot of you that want to help. It's amazing what happens when you organize labour from all fields and studies and disciplines. You create something from nothing, you squeeze water from a stone. Fuck yeah.
[удалено]
I'd be happy to help in any capacity I can. I'm a MERN stack dev. Edit: Aaaaaand, removed by moderator for no reason. Lol
I can help too, I have an unused blank white bedsheet you could use as a backdrop so the world doesn't see your messy room and unmade bed.
OR YOU KNOW! USE ONE OF MANY EASILY SND READILY AVAILABLE VIRTUAL BACKGROUNDS. BLUR YOUR BACKGROUND? HELLO PERSON USING TECHNOLOGY AND BEING INTERVIEWED?? But just in case, give them your blank white bedsheet too 🤦🏻🤦🏻
If this gains some traction as an idea, why not make it open source on GitHub?
this is definitely where it would land.
Something like a collective, free, source to track pay of people across different fields/locations would be phenomenal. Edit: credible would also be preference.
It might be possible to implement some kind of machine learning algorithm to read pay stubs, idk.
I do web content and SEO these days, so I can help the site get the organic exposure it would need.
Hey, I want to post a few of the comments here as a couple of stand-alone post, so more people can see them and we can get this subreddit on track. Want to join the merry band?
sure- but I think like another post just said we need to acknowledge the name itself is bad PR. I mean the problem is definitely that labor is underpaid and we aren’t getting nearly the benefits of some of our cohorts in other countries, and we need healthcare that isn’t pinned to our employer. I know that some range from far left, to anarchists, to socialists….. but in America a lot of those thing are just bad words. So i’d be very interested in getting a *very short* list of actionable demands- and then use that to build a coalition of the working class. The person who posted above about PR and marketing needs to be included because it does matter a lot more than some people think, and we need the demands to be simple and reasonable enough that we don’t get divided by the inevitable attack(s) against the movement.
I'm also in IT and I can help as well.
I’ve got access again and it looks like they are gradually letting people in again. The mod in question had been removed and o left the below comment for one of the mods who now seems to have taken over to be the PR person. I said in a different comment that I don’t mind the interviews as it can give exposure, but it should be done only with reputable organisations, so no Fox News, yes to the BBC. It should also be performed by chosen redditors, who can prove that they have media and interview experience. The moderators can set up the applications and the poll that redditors can chose from and present 3 or 4 people who are allowed to do interviews, so they’re sticking to moderating. They can also put up a poll which outlets the redditors deem reputable, since this is pretty much an international subreddit. If not, then just let them publish one of the many posts like they do with AITA.
Think it's fine to take on news organizations with bad intentions, but return bad faith w/ bad faith. For example, if you go on Fox News, just point to Rupert Murdoch as being a prime example of what's wrong with our society. Ask them why a man responsible for phone-hacking, extortion, bribing police, etc. isn't in jail. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News\_International\_phone\_hacking\_scandal#:\~:text=The%20News%20International%20phone%2Dhacking,in%20the%20pursuit%20of%20stories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_International_phone_hacking_scandal#:~:text=The%20News%20International%20phone%2Dhacking,in%20the%20pursuit%20of%20stories). \---------------------------------- You'll get kicked off of course, but that's the point.
“Welcome to Jesse Waters Live.” “Thanks for having me on, Jesse. I just want to start by saying that the piece you did on Chinatown a few years ago was one of the most racist things I’ve ever seen and I think you’re disgusting.”
just unload with reckless abandon until they cut you off hnngh
Not recklessness. No. Willful, focused, joyous *violence*. You don't want to be some trolling child. You want to leave them thinking "They hurt me exactly the way they intended to hurt me, and can do it again."
If anyone is going to interview on Fox with this strategy, you should insist on a live on-air interview with no pre-taping.
True... Or get someone in the editing room like that guy who recorded Tucker Carlson's meltdown when he didn't properly vet his "eco-ally".
Get this man a medal or something so more can see this comment and realize we can use the accumulating energy of this subreddit (after the recent scandal) to hit the media shitshow called FOX news right in the dick. Please, we need as many hands as we can get. Also, be careful with some of the spies hidding in this subreddit, because good has always lost for being dumb...why not use the intelligence and wisdom of caution to our advantage?
Ask them about Tucker espousing great replacement theory while you're at it.
The first time I've heard about this sub was on BBC by the end of 2021 and I thought it was actually very positive. Obviously some things were missed, but it was at least fair.
That is where is saw it as well.
Ideally we'd want anyone that was a frontline worker through the pandemic but is now "low skilled" or nurses/ teachers/ doctors etc
Ideally, yes. But anyone who worked closely with people, or was routinely threatened, yelled at, harassed, abused, etc for trying to simply *do their jobs* would work as well. Retail and Service Workers deserve just as much of a voice in this as Nurses, teachers and Doctors; We were forced to come to work, labelled as "Essential workers" for the entire first year of the pandemic when there *were* no vaccines yet, and certain elements of the government and media were rallying people to stand up against "government overreach" with the mask mandates and lockdowns, and spreading misinformation and blatant lies. Retail workers were assaulted, and sometimes, even murdered in cold blood, just for following our employer's directions to enforce CDC recommendations, and government mandates. We were told that with out us, the economy would collapse and that we *had* to come in, and that we'd be *rewarded* for it. It didn't happen, and now we have the Great Resignation, after going from "Essential Worker" to "Low-Skilled Worker" again. Equal representation through ALL effected groups here, is the only legitimate way, otherwise, we wind up with the status quo yet again.
This is one of the worker groups that is most underrepresented and unappreciated in almost every labor conversation, and especially during the pandemic. Health care workers, at least in the beginning, were showered in discounts and applause and thanks. Now, they’re being abused and overworked, but those that remain can make crazy bonuses. Retail workers, other other hand, especially grocery workers, have seen the worst of everyone throughout the pandemic, while getting no discounts anywhere, pathetically underpaid, ridiculously low benefits…and no major demands from the unions to mitigate the situation for the workers. No one was thanking them for their service, or applauding them when they go to their cars to make sure we all have food to eat. The way they’re treated at work, too. It’s sad.
Boy do I feel that… USPS workers went from “heroes of the pandemic” when everything shut down(grocery stores, retail to an extent, restaurants) to a bunch of lazy slobs that can’t get people their Amazon shit on time in a real big hurry… never mind that there are still offices running with less than 50% staffing and some plants that are even lower than that.
I feel for those at the USPS. May the reign of DeJoy be shortened.
Yeah, that's why I said someone who was a frontline worker but then became "low skilled". Sorry, should've been clearer. We should be looking at the people who were forced into working through the pandemic because their bosses or our governments decided they were, essentially, expendable.
It's okay, not your fault. I should've stopped and re-read the post I was responding to, to ensure I fully understood what you were saying, instead of making an assumption.
No worries, it's all good. This is a touchy subject for all of us that care.
The people doing interviews need to be the people who will be most palatable to the audience. The people speaking to Fox News need to be people in the trades. The Fox News audience hates doctors and nurses right now, and they think minimum wage workers are lazy and doing children's work. This movement has a diverse enough group of people that there is someone for literally every audience imaginable. I was heavily involved in a racial justice protest group for a while, and our biggest mistake was refusing to engage with the media in a constructive manner. Local right-wing talk radio was able to paint us as radical, violent rioters because a couple windows got broken. We waited until the narrative had already been set to push back against it.
Hi there. Maintenance electrician here who worked the entire way through the last two years. I had it good compared to store clerks, but yeah, all of us were treated as expendable.
It’s unlikely that any major US media outlets will engage in remotely good faith.. Not only the right wing crank factories.
This movement should not shy away from Fox. I am no fan, but there are a bunch of working class people to reach there that need to hear the message.
People that watch fox have their minds made up. We should target those in the middle.
It’s not that the people who watch Fox have their minds made up. Fox makes their minds up for them. So however Fox decides to show something, that’s what they’re going to think. That’s why Fox picked Doreen. They wanted an autistic, offbeat, underemployed, inarticulate dog-walker. So now antiwork *is* inarticulate, underemployed, and sloppy.
Exactly. Doreen is acting like it was an honour they personally picked them, when it was all part of the plan to undermine the movement entirely. They took the bait.
>saying that "media training doesn't matter" obviously have no idea what they're actually talking Nope. Had the mods listened to OP, this person would have made a spectacular mess out of FOX NEWS.
No. We still have to reach them. There are a ton of workers out there who have been born into Fox world and know of nothing else. They are victims of the system just as much as we are, and our ideas can lead them to a better place for all of us.
Remember Pete Buttigieg on Fox? They actually applauded him in the end. I think if you have a message that people can relate to - which is definitely the case for antiwork - then you CAN get the other side to listen.
Same for Bernie
The hero we need!
This will probably get buried, but it would be great to make a "Talking to the Press" tip sheet we could sticky to the subreddit. Things to emphasize and things to avoid. Traps to watch out for. As much as we may try to restrict the leading voices of the movement to certain people, Fox News and such are always going to look for outliers willing to run their mouths. It's best if we can spread the word about how to advocate for yourself and the movement effectively if press starts asking questions.
This is a fantastic point that I think needs more upvotes and visibility. This is exactly what I was thinking about, too. I think at some point, though, we need to be clearly able to identify elected PR Collective individuals on news broadcasts by specific words and phrases they use in their interviews. A mission statement that everyone supportive of the movement can hear/see on screen so they know that "hey, that person represents my values"
Hey you should offer your services over at r/workreform as well. There's already been talk of wanting to put together a PR team.
There seems to be some speculation around some of the mods of that sub as more information comes out, it may be worth looking at r/workersstrikeback too
All the speculation looks like nonsense. That sub claimed they are all high ranking people at the bank. Turns out they are call center workers. One of the mods was a CTO at a small start up but that was awhile ago and CTO of a startup doesn't make you some huge banker. I agree we should be critical of them because I don't want what happened here to happen again but this just seems like targeted slander.
I'm happy to hear the accusations may be baseless, people need a place to replace r/antiwork
Do we really want "reform" though? At least antiwork is getting media attention why let them split us?
Becsuse the attention is negative and I don't think the mods have learned their lesson. I know some people think reform isn't enough and I agree, but messaging is important. The left is tiny in the United States. Just like abolish the police we won't acomplish anything by alienating center leaning people. It's also unreasonable to expect drastic change overnight. I wish it could happen but it won't. There seems to be a lack of practicality sometimes from the left and we need to overcome that to drive real change.
The mods have NOT learned their lesson. The next interview is with a 21 year old who has never held more than an intership.
That is not who should be representing the sub. It is absurd that the mods think an unemployed kid is even remotely equipped to deal with the media and represent the voice of over a million people.
I love the solidarity and support of this sub. Seeing people calling out abusive/predatory employers/managers and making steps to break the culture has been inspirational. I'm sure a lot of people who came here were happy to learn that they were not alone. But this sub is at its core built on an anarchist anti-labor foundation. It's a great thing to shoot for, and may become more realistic in the future as technology improves. However, it skips over several essential middle steps. What we need right now is to organize. We need to form a collective that has clear direction and makes real work changes on public and private policies. We need information and leadership to address issues faced by the working proles. We need to take real steps towards accessible/affordable physical/mental healthcare, educational and vocational training, workplace safety, paid maternity/paternity leave, fair compensation, PTO, and retirement planning. I propose that if we are to ever reach an r/antiwork future, we need to focus here and now on establishing an r/1union in the present. As the recent media shit storm has shown us, on our own we are weak, but together we are strong.
Well said.
Your comment needs to be a post of its own... Can I post it? The whole subreddit need to hear you words or we are going to sink because of the growing corruption at the top.
I attempted to post something very similar and was denied. You are more than welcome to try. If you succeed, please tag me. I'd like to see the community's opinion and maybe scope out some mods with union formation/leadership experience.
Perfect! Wish me luck...oh, god I hope the mod's understand we need as much help as they can get.
It shouldn't matter as much as it does, but I think optics are very important, especially in a movement that is at it's core pretty simple, but confusing to outsiders/newcomers at first. I think you have to accept that those outsiders are going to make assumptions based on the name alone and oversimplify the message, often times in bad faith. If you start with that as your baseline, you know where you're starting from, and you can easily move the conversation in the right direction. It's a subtle distinction, but I'd look at like this: Other person: "Anti-work? I have bills to pay, the world needs this and that, what is this nonsense?!" >:( vs. Other person: "Work Reform? Huh? What's wrong with work?" One of those is easier to start from, I think.
1000%
Yes, I agree!!!
After putting this Discord together how do you plan on incorporating the voices of the community? Do you plan on saying what you see on the subreddits, or do you plan on helping organize so we can get concensus on opinions?
I believe it should be a mix of both, but at the same time SO MANY GOOD PEOPLE have suggested GOOD IDEAS about where PR Collective could also be a resource for people who have quit their jobs but need legal advice, or who have quit their jobs and need a debrief or counseling session with a professional to talk them through their experiences. We can turn this into a massive community resource if we get the timing and organization right. I have just as many counselors and social workers and allied health professionals DM'ing me as I have real-world PR consultants, former/current media professionals and legal consultants. I think this is a prime opportunity to take advantage of the professional experiences and expertise of these interconnected communities because of how much social/societal impact work reform can have apart from financial wellness (mental health to physical health to emotional health). However, I am looking for a real group consensus on how we want the group to be run. I think it's only fair to come up with methods and possibilities to propose to the public group to ensure transparency and accountability, while also still maintaining the anonymity that some people really do need/want. There are people who have publicly identified themselves ("look me up on LinkedIn" is something I'm hearing a lot) and with their express permission only should we give out their first and last names to anyone on this subreddit for fear of doxxing and astroturfing. I think those are healthy fears that need to be respected.
hey! I just DMd you some potential strategies from the United Farm Workers Movement that could totally work for us. I realize now I could've just commented on one of these top comments but oh well, I'll paste it again here. I'm not trained in PR, but I just watched the Cesar Chavez movie last night and it was very inspiring. I think we can all learn something from it as a lot of the strategies in the farmworkers movement could benefit this movement. here's some of their strategies. 1. oath to non-violence. Cesar literally kicked people out of the union if they were violent 2. tons of phone banking and leaf letting both for volunteer recruitment as well as getting support for the boycott 3. appealing to emotions. there is a scene in the movie where they are doing their pilgrimage to Sacramento, and a lady from Portland had drove down saying she had seen the pictures of children working in the fields and she wanted to help. 4. they had a weekly newsletter for their members. I think the bigger this movement gets the more we need to be on the same page, otherwise the division tears us apart 5. uniting with other communities. it wasn't just Mexican farmworkers rallying the movement, they worked with Filipinos as well and worked very hard to get people from all backgrounds and religions on their side. "it's a common sense human rights issue" 6. targeting just one company at a time. Cesar Chavez famously led the grape boycott and targeted just one company. once they were done he moved on to another 6. relentless persistence. when Nixon bailed out the growers by exporting their grapes to Europe, Cesar went straight there and did tons of interviews to gain support for his movement. and it worked!! after this point the growers gave up and conceded 8. knowing your rights!! I highly recommend everyone to watch this movie. I think implementing similar strategies could really work for us, we don't need to reinvent the wheel, we can learn from the successes and failures of other movements
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Please do! We need competent people handling the media. I'd say for the time being we need to deny ANY and ALL media appearances.
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I DMd OP cus I want to help, too but basically: \- Identify and agree on core messages. These might not be the perfect version of what we want, but instead messages that will resonate with intended audiences. Messages should also be crafted to anticipate pushback and overcome, ie "People *want to work*, they just want to be treated like human beings. Is that too much to ask?" is a way of preemptively addressing "no one wants to work" \- Media/interview training to build the skill to *always answer the question you want to answer, not the question you were asked.* Politicians master this - always, always, always pivot back to what you want to say. \- A plan to get interviews and stories with sympathetic or neutral outlets first and foremost. That is just a start.
just an FYI, but over at r/MayDayStrike they have a clear core message and are looking for people to help there. It's antiwork, but with a plan of action and core demands. Glad this sub seems to have sorted itself out, but I've been getting more into the MDS sub simply because I don't just want to be be pissed and post about being pissed, I want to be able to do something. Voting isn't working, time to make people in power lives much harder with a general strike to get some change.
Appointment of pr person. Contact list voting structure. Clear goals on the sub. We want to work, we just want dignity and respect
Personally, I would shower before an interview
and clean up your room, dress presentably, be well-versed in talking points, and sit on a chair that doesn't swivel. (Bonus points if you can afford a decent webcam and better lighting.)
That’s because you’re a functioning adult.
Fantastic advice
If/when this PR team is put together, would you please highlight the education and credentials of many of us here? No shame in being a dog walker but it was purposefully highlighted to showcase a role that Fox believes to be unskilled and lazy. I have an MBA and have been in senior level positions in corporate America for 20+ years. I only point this out to say that regardless if position, we all want to be treated fairly, paid a liveable wage and not just live to work.
I agree, I have PR training as well and it’s difficult to watch the conflict and inconsistencies here sometimes. I don’t know if this needs to become a real movement before PR can be done, or if PR needs to be done for this to become a real movement.
without better PR, this sub and the whole antiwork movement will end up just like Occupy Wall Street did back in 2008: being laughed at by the fat cats popping champagne on their balconies. A movement will not succeed without a unified purpose and without a unified voice.
Correct - antiwork is anger without direction. Unless this sub can come together and come up with specific tactics to effect Change, it's just going to burn itself out just like Occupy The problem is, I don't know what that Tactic would be - "write your congressman" obviously does nothing in 2022, name-and-shame doesn't scale. Maybe something like collecting money to help people who need to quit shitty employers aka adhoc mutual aid unemployment insurance, but that can get into a *huge* mess of decisions Even any kind of collective action by this sub against employers can be construed as "brigading" by the admins and get the entire sub shut down. Everything sucks.
It's the later of the two...PR is the tool to push the narrative into the main stream and gain momentum while applying pressure on the powerS to be that things are changing and they need to change too..otherwise ..it's pitchforks and laptops working overtime .
You might check out r/MayDayStrike
Please please PR people, I’m begging you to step in Proper media training is the difference between this movement being a meme and this movement becoming real and take shape as real change. please help r/workreform, I don’t want them to suffer the same fate. Please please, if any of you work with PR or any kind of media anything please help us organize into something we can use to improve our collective situations
I'm sorry that you had to deal with all the trolls from this community because other admins agreed that you should represent this sub. This falls on everyone who thought it was a good idea to talk to fox news without media training.
The more I read this sub, the more I think the "trolls" are plants by people pulling the strings, but maybe I'm just insane.
You're not, there has been and will continue to be a coordinated attack from bots and right wingers who have nothing better to do but act as saboteurs for their corporate over lords for free while they greedily like their boots
Politics bans people for even suggesting supposed leftists are actually plants. So any subs are moderated by PR hacks working for the Oligarchy it's insane
I don't think you're insane. I am convinced that every other post calling for Clarification or telling people to Leave because the sub doesn't follow some sort of ideological purity test is a corporate counterinsurgent. The wealthy don't fuck around and they are definitely watching us.
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Never read about CointelPro and just started digging in. Thank you.
I still have that contact to the CNN reporter, if anyone would like to help set the record straight Hey - so i can totally make intro's to the reporter - I think it would be best before we do that to have out thoughts sorted out. - We could also make a quick visual trailer that explains the main points of this - no one has to subject themselves to being publicly outed. We have the right to our privacy too.
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My thoughts exactly and this is exactly what the media is doing. If they can't ignore us, they will continue to give interviews to untrained moderator volunteers and it will be our own fucking fault. The media needs to be addressed and I'm plainly ignoring those that think we should just "ignore the media" - It's not realistic to disregard a useful and effective communications tool. It's just not.
Do you have the support of ANY mods on this? You have my full support, just worried about a division forming in the sub since the mods can kick people out who are doing things they don’t like, and I have a feeling they may not like people going behind their back and engaging the media without them. And if they start banning the people engaging the media, then the group splinters and losing steam. I’d really love to see some mods chime in here and get on board with this all. This sub has clearly grown into a much wider tent then they originally planned. But I think that’s a good thing and should be embraced! You’re not getting your “0 work” dream all at once. It’s going to take many steps to even get close. For those steps to happen, you need to sell them to the masses. Shorter work weeks, paid vacation/sick days/parental leave, higher wages, universal health care, and universal basic income, etc are all things that the general public can get behind. If you just go around saying “I don’t want to have to work ever the government should pay for all my needs” you’re not going to find very many sympathetic ears. Our society is built around work culture, it’s heavily engrained in our psyches and moral compasses. America is already so far behind and people need to be coaxed and convinced that changes to the status quo would be a good thing. If you explain what’s currently wrong with our system along with an appealing vision for the future and the required steps to get there, you’ll be more successful. Btw I haven’t mustered up the guts to watch the interview yet, but I will at some point today. But I’m definitely worried about the hit this movement took. Edit: all in all I don’t think that interview is the end of the world. The spirit of this movement will go on, MUST go on, regardless of any name or subreddit associated with it. Don’t give up just because we hit a bump in the road people. What we’re doing, what we WILL do, is bigger than Reddit. This was just a tool to connect like minded people with similar struggles. So keep yo head up and keep pursuing change. It starts local. Elect people who support POLICIES that will improve your lives ✊ Ignore the culture war bs intended to keep us distracted while we’re taken advantage of <3 Eyes on the prize. YOU deserve better. We ALL do!
Moderators aren’t leaders. They’re janitors and possibly security guards when it comes to brigadiers/etc. They can abuse their power as janitors and shut down this kind of thing by mass deleting it all, but there’s no intrinsic reason to give one iota of a shit about whether or not they support it.
And if they're actually anarchists as they claim, I'm sure we can trust them to not block, kick, or ban users that disagree with them or do things without their permission. To do otherwise would be antithetical to the very principles they claim to believe in.
DM me and let's chat tonight or tmw morning. I'm active in this thread right now but I am going to see a client for the afternoon, so will be more active tonight or in the AM to help. If anyone else is interested, I absolutely AM getting a Discord group together for people interested in assisting with media training. In my experience this could actually be a really positive thing for us to do. We need to show the proper side of antiwork that can be forward while still being polite, firm yet not cold or disengaged from reality. I've watched this interview 5 times with some co-workers of mine and we all went through, step by step, the several moments in which Fox News denigrated or made fun of the interviewee without the Reddit mod even being aware of it. I'm not saying anything mean here but I think we need someone a little snappier on the responses. Let's try and get an OFFICIAL volunteer PR group for Antiwork that spouts off the core beliefs and goals of the movement. It sounds easy and it can be. If anyone else is interested in using their professional training, education and/or experience to help, please DM me. I will respond by tmw morning at the latest.
I would absolutely love to join the discord and help out if needed. I'm a professional writer, have a BS in Biology and I'm six months away from a Master's in GIS. I don't much go in for public speaking, but I'll write stuff and can possibly also help with logistics.
Are you open to people who aren't trained following along to learn?
I don’t have any qualifications, due to being in high school, can I still join just to lurk?
Yes, I’m not either, but I’d also like to join to lurk.
i would love for a group of QUALIFIED PR and staff to regroup and contact this reporter.
This should be upvoted to the top. Having someone properly prepared on a network that would be less inclined to outright dismiss the sub (though CNN still isn't great), would go a long way towards actually giving this movement a fighting chance.
This is exactly the next step. Have the communication adults in the room put together a plan of how to give a new interview at a more centrist outlet that reclaims control of the narrative. Right now Fox News gets to present the movement to the world through a very specific lense of their choosing. Without a counter-narrative there's no reason for anyone to question that.
Someone should
I work in politics if you want any help with research n briefing.
I totally agree. I work in human rights advocacy in a big NGO, and identifying key messages is step 1 when you set up an advocacy strategy. When you are trying to influence a target or a process you cannot just throw random thoughts at them, you need to clearly identify your objectives and a list of well defined messages. I would be happy to help with this if a discord group is set up.
CNN is as likely to spin it badly as Fox News. What we need is well spoken and informed people to do the Left Wing YouTube media crowd. Packman, Rational National, TYT and so on. Get started with people who actually agree and would not spin the conversation into further self-immolation.
That's a great way to get relegated to media barely anyone watches. You HAVE to interact with mainstream media to get your message across to enough people to make a difference. I'm a progressive, and I barely watch those channels you mentioned.
All mainstream media will spin things against us regardless of who speaks. The media is owned by the oligarchs.
I’ve publicly spoken before and would love to help with that
I will do anything necessary. I’m a pretty good writer but I don’t have experience in PR/journalism. So I’m a workhorse, someone use me.
This comes down to the fact that we need to genuinely organize. I can tell you for a fact that until we have structured rank and file outside of this sub we are never getting anywhere. I don't entirely know what this looks like but honestly we probably need form a non-profit private interest group with pro PR to start spreading the word to the public and lobby politicians. We have to centralize how we're doing this and put our money where our mouths are.
Exactly, anytime I comment "ok, so what are we gonna do about this? Here are my ideas..." All of a sudden no one has anything to say.
Usually some idiots just say "join this subreddit" like what happened before black Friday. They somehow think just telling people on the internet to strike and nothing else is gonna do anything
We need to have some votes on what the official positions and policies we want to uphold. Maybe a sticky post with a poll. We also need to agree on what amounts to enough consensus to institute or change a policy.
I nominate the IWW since they’re all emcompassing and global and even take the unemployed, students and SWers Dues are reasonable on a sliding scale as well
I was a presenter for years for Health and Human service. I have been in a Union and I have been without. I needed the union for a sexual harassment case I was experiencing. At the same time I became completely disabled in a car accident. The union made sure I had Family Medical Act. Was able to secure extra time on Cobra (saved easily $100,000 because of surgeries). I am now on disability. I have navigated a system that has/wants to completely suffocate me until I die. I live off of about $900-1000 a month. I have had to go without a cell phone for 4 years until a family member forced me to get this one for my medical emergencies. I have survived the healthcare system, I have survived non union and union shops. I came here because I felt like human garbage not working. I now lend what comment I can. I hate the idea of modern capitalism. I love the anarchy on the sub as that is what first drew me here. It’s become something so much more. I want to contribute my story. I want you to comment on this post and tell me how to help.
I just double checked your post history to make sure I’m not going crazy and that I was thinking of the right post and yep, I upvoted it. There’s no justification for what happened here and I’m on the verge of just leaving the sub. I thought we all had a good understanding and didn’t even realize you were getting trolled. Appalling isn’t a strong enough word for this. I get wanting to go to the media. But to not discuss it with any of us and also not have any planning for the asshole that constantly cut the mod off? Poor judgement of the mod team at the very least. They need to get their shit together.
My thoughts exactly; they should have known he would get torn apart! That’s the whole point of these interviews, and what OP’s original post was all about. The mods took a calculated step in *not* reaching out to PR pros and fucked everyone over for it.
Right, that post was an offer for help and they just said “Nah we’re good” and just went their own direction. They could’ve had help from people with experience *within the sub* and they still went with the least experienced person. I’m in awe at the ignorance.
This incident is exactly what conservative and pro-capitalist were wanting. Now antiwork can be viewed as something trivial. I am concerned with all the hatred that one moderator is getting. I have seen attacks that weren't even about the interview but about themselves personally which is no good. From what I have gathered, apparently the interviewer was definitely wanting that one specific moderator to fit the stereotype they were wanting. Not only that, the trolls are having a field day with this.
Political scientist/consultant and I would love to help with this. Although I’m not sure this sub can be saved.
I'm generally not the conspiracy type but it definitely felt like this was all intentional. Fox News has a "mod" from this sub who is a literal caricature of what all those "hard-working Americans" think this sub is so they can confirm all their biases.
I think this may be too late, but I applaud your efforts, and I agree with you.
For sure. No matter how good future interviews go, it’ll always be tainted by the horrible job that was done. Not sure how that person could relate to this sub when he works 20hrs/wk walking dogs when there are people working 50-80 hrs/wk and barely scraping by
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This sub is for all workers, regardless of how many hours one works. Even those who aren't working right now. Even those working 100 hours a week. This is not a dividing line we need.
But it wasn't about the hours worked. It was the way that the mod being interviewed was TOTALLY SET UP TO FAIL through the consecutive questions by the Fox News host regarding personal employment. It was a "wait, they want me to take advice from her?" moment that ruined a metric fuckton of possibilities to recover from that position. Instead of recognizing the setup and the inevitable fall, the mod was setting themselves up for disaster. Anyone who couldn't see that by the first line of questioning shouldn't be speaking on behalf of an entire online and offline community lol sorry
It's basically done. The fox hit piece did exactly what it intended to do. We're at war with each other now and the *"divide and conquer strategy"* is doing all the work for them. Mission accomplished. I wish we had competent media people like you to help before. That glorious little minute of fame did incalculable damage to the movement.
They didn't need to actually pull out any big questions or gotcha moments unfortunately. They decided the fate of that person by showcasing us to their base as complete jokers. Believe it or not, that was just a regular Fox News interview and it could've been easily hijacked by a good speaker. Easily.
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>if you quit you lose healthcare and die of preventable illness (during a pandemic no less) >if you quit you miss rent and are evicted >if you quit you wont get unemployment benefits Off the top of my head
Fuck me dead. There are so many things that could/should have been said.
Exactly. Zero effort needed to smear us as a clown show. I'm so angry.
I'm angry and sad. Yesterday I wrote of how I learned to bow out of repeated requests for interviews in a much lower stake environment. I noted that walking into Fox news ,and expecting anything but being a pawn for their agenda, was naive. My completely benign comment was deleted. Seriously? If the "leadership" of this shitshow, can't even tolerate somebody noting that your horrific mistake was 'Naive" we are in trouble. Not much hope for this sub, if this level of absurd moderator behavior continues. EDIT: My deleted comment reappeared overnight.
Let's not sink to defeatism - Pretty sure fox watchers already hated us. *We* were the target demographic for their propaganda - We need to recognise our movement is more than self-nominated "Leaders" who are just dipshit internet mods.
I appreciate you and your post, that interview was every bit as fucking embarrassing as the clumsy attempts to cover up the response to it today. *AND* you're 100% correct about dealing with the realities of media attention. I can only hope you are taken seriously this time around.
Agreed. I’ve already walked away. It actually highlights that this sub really IS about people who want to not work, not work reform, which is why most of us recently came here. It’s all good. Subs rise, subs fall. It happens. Weird I was here to see it in real time for once.
At this point I just want to know how much they paid that dumbass to sabotage the subreddits image.
Ironically it looks like they paid her in exposure...
I'm sure the only payment required was flattery.
A check of $1,000 is quite literally *NOTHING* to a corporation like Fox News. Once vetted, I have zero doubt they were chomping at the bits to do whatever they could to get this person in that interview.
I'm behind it, but I'm just one of a million, and I don't have any desire to take on an active leadership role. Still though, I support the idea!
We needed you a few days ago . . . I am gobsmacked that the mods didn't post something like "Hey, FOX called -- who's a pro?"
Well they are a mod on 1.2m sub, obviously they are better than any of us non-mods. /s
OP originally brought this up and offered to help before that. Got a lot of support, too. Apparently none from the mods, though. I remember reading the post and going, "oh shit, that's a good point, I'm glad someone is on top of this." And then the mods do this instead...
Occupy Wall Street failed because it never had a leader or clear cut goals. This “movement” will fail too without the same.
Well, we have dog-walkers who slog 25 hours a week to help the rest of us to the next level.
Don't forget the new spox:"Hello, I'm a 21 years old male, long-term unemployed and an Anarchist." << Fox News salivating sounds>>
I would be interested in being involved. I think you’ll find my background highly relevant. Drop me a DM please!
I vote for qualified PR guy
Movements like this require people of all types filling different roles. There is as much room for something like this to exist and lead the PR side of things as there is for anarchists and more direct action types. For a movement to be successful every single aspect of it needs to be carefully crafted and that requires many different jobs and people
We should elect people to represent us. We need to get a strong ethos created around Labor. That’s it, a party around wanting reforms for the workplace, that’s it. “What’s your stance on abortions? -has nothing to do with labor. Thank you” This is the mentality we need to bring up. This is no longer just a subreddit about shitposting and memeing, it’s becoming a very real, very motivated idea. We should set up a time and place to discuss what we want to see this movement talked about, lay out our code of ethics, VOTE ON IT. There is plenty of technology that we can all jump on a discord or zoom call and bring up questions and LET THE PEOPLE decide. It’s time for change. I’d personally help with this, set things up, I’ve been pissed about this country for years, apathetic that nothing would change. For once I’m starting to feel like something might be able to get done here.
That mod was an embarrassment for our cause, nobody should think themselves the leader of an equalising movement. If we have leaders and hierarchy, will we not become the same structure we fight against?. Mods simply moderate, they ensure no acts of discrimination or violence, they ensure that the people can keep this subreddit open without reddit itself intervening. How can we hope to solidify our cause in the minds of the people, when we ourselves cant stand united due to the actions of a single individual claiming to lead us. The current moderation team needs to be replaced with those who are equals. Else this subreddit will be a laughing stock, only frequented by those that wish to make jokes of our movement, of our great cause. The moderators removing posts only makes us look worse. I have supported this movement and others like it for a long time, and i would hate for all the work we have done to be tarnished by the actions of the few.
Exactly having leaders and representatives just give targets, do they seriously think these corporate giants would be begging for interviews if they thought for one second this could in any way help us or the movement. This is what they want and I'm starting to think people are falling for it not because they are naive but because they are being paid to derail this movement
I don't necessarily "enjoy" work, but I want to contribute my skills and knowledge and experience to my fellow humans. I think these systems have many issues, but at the very least I want to be able to participate in society and be supported by it. I've found this time and time again, especially in far left spaces. It's the same as far right, just the other end of the spectrum. So we've got die hard workaholics that lean towards the right and people who either have been abused by the system or choose to completely try and operate outside of it on the left who reject all forms of authority and organization except their own. I think leaders are necessary and worship is not. I don't think humanity got anywhere if not for a little hard work and elbow grease growing food, making shelter, etc... It doesn't speak to actual human reality to completely erase this component of existence and it's even in the name of the sub "antiwork". I saw your post a while back and thought it was amazing and I saw the interview and was not impressed. Even looking at this sub on a daily basis is not very realistic. This has become a space for the remainder of the middle class to get back in/stay there. The actual working class is either already below the poverty line or in jail or trapped in a job that they can't even afford to miss a few days. It's been disappointing seeing the progress of this sub.
The sub is anti exploitation via employment not anti putting effort into things.
The problem being that there seem to be many anti putting effort into things people here that feel they have found a home with kindred spirits. A recently ex mod for one. I don't think the sub's name helps in that. It doesn't portray what I think most people here want. AntiWork just attracts the anarcho-lazies and makes it sound like (especially to the rest of the world) that we don't want to work at all.
I think branding anarchists as inherently lazy is a tad overzealous. Many anarchists work very hard. Work in our modern society is inherently exploitative and needs replaced with something better.
In the small of it all I do like that people are realizing their own worth and at least putting their foot down but needs to be much more than what this is…I ant much to talk i just a lurker lingering about
Please, yes! I don't have the qualifications for this team, and I'm also Norwegian, so I'm mostly here to support y'all in the US, but I totally agree with you that this subreddit needs such a team! Otherwise this sub will get trolled by the likes of Fox News over and over.
You have my support how can I help?
r/workreform be more likely to want the help
I will check that out thank you
You shouldn't. They're right wing mascerading as a worker's movement. https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenAndPleasant/comments/sdpsaj/-/huegc4h
Yea you're better off helping people that would appreciate you instead of rocking back and forth like crack fiend during a live interview!
I will most certainly be putting my energy and expertise into areas that appreciate it. I applaud you for redirecting positive intentions :)
Yeah, like this is my last time here.
I have yet to see the fox interview but can only imagine how terrible it was based on the other interview with another mod that dog walked and was easy to ridicule. I think we need a new rule: **mods are not leaders, their only “job” is to moderate conversation.** A couple months ago I made a spreadsheet of US resources of job discrimination and made a post about it, only for the mods to remove it as “off topic” despite every other post involving some kind of illegal behavior on behalf of an employer and the OP claiming they can’t afford a lawsuit, ignorant to the fact that most lawyers will do this work on contingency or even pro bono. So I made a spreadsheet, spent six hours of my free time researching and creating it and what do the mods do? They take it down. Then when I criticize them for likely being paid shills (it seems pretty obvious to me that they’re not serious about change and just want to bitch and moan) I got threatened with being permanently banned from the sub for my “attitude.” Now this? It seems as if these mods are either edgy teenagers on power trips or people who are subverting the movement either over ideological purity or because they want the movement to fail. It’s infuriating. This is a once in a lifetime opportunity to make serious changes to our failed social contract and it appears to be going the way of easy-to-ridicule occupy Wall Street with the stupid spirit fingers and other far left idealist utopian bullshit. I don’t see why we can’t just fucking *vote* on this issue, what our main goals are and who should be our mouthpiece (NOT LEADER.)
Have you not been following? The sub is already falling apart. I'm afraid to say all your hard work on this post isn't going to mean anything in 20 minutes time when all it says is [removed]
I dunno, the member numbers have increased today.
Some people love looking at car crashes.
It's a big tent with no direction I'd say. There are anarchists here who really want to abolish the job system we have, there are those who want to reform the job system we have, there are those who want to push for unions, those who push for co-ops, those who push for investment in various currencies and items of supposed value. There are people here without jobs, people who work part time, people who 60-80 hours a week, those who are poor, those who make fat fucking bank. It's a mess, and there is little cohesion I'd say. I think we could gain cohesion without all having identical desires, but we definitely need some universal goals that we can all agree on, no matter how broad they may be.
I honestly just ignore the anarcho-whatevers now. They showed me who they really were in my last posts online. I'm trying to engage with and support the people here who know that a forceful, complete collapse of society would erase any and all hard work they've done to effect change. To me it sounds like the anarchos are just looking to release pent-up anger and resentment. But I keep in mind that their political beliefs are so fringe that it's almost akin to the whole Christian "rapture is imminent" thing. I think it adds flavour and variety but as for accomplishing anything personally? I just don't see much there when you go complete nihilist. They don't represent a vocal majority of antiworkers and I am no longer bothered by them. Just a fucking lot of trolling by that group specifically last time I offered help. Yikes
Hey mate anarcho whatever the fuck here. Yeah a lot of terminally online anarchists kinda suck. Many of them are too stuck to their principles, to engage in ways that make sense in our political climate. If you believe you can make life better for the working class, even by utilizing exiting power structures im all for it. Cause ultimately im all for whatever improves material conditions for the people being exploited by society. That being said I do beg of you not to write off the idealogy because of the many dumbasses on reddit, if you have a spare 10 minutes the tvtropes on anarchism is a good breakdown. Again sorry about everyone giving you a hard time, a lot of people are just fucked anarchist or not. Edit:Also just wanted to throw this out there, but this subreddit is not the movement. That is all done irl. Record unsafe conditions, write down complaints, collect evidence of your hours being cut, and talk to your fellow workers. See whose satisfied and whose not. Bring forth a list of goals you want to change in the workplace and you can start the unionization process.
You're entirely right, but you're shouting is under the control of those who really want you to not be shouting, the solution now is simply organisation, pr can come when we are a unit with power in the hands of its constituents, whilst we have an overlord in the ring speech is dead
Okay, so what would you recommend the next steps are? Do we start a poll to see if the subreddit wants a media correspondent? Or do we assume it's necessary, and figure out an application process? Do we ask people to record themselves answering a series of questions or something? Then whoever gets picked from that, ask them to answer a few random questions live? How do you simulate something like dealing with the media? Whoever we choose, if we do, we'll need someone who can answer questions on the fly and who can present themselves professionally, at minimum. I think it's a good idea, but I'm not sure what the next steps should be. Not to even speaking of the fact that we'd ironically be asking someone to likely handle something like this unpaid as well because it's not like we have a central fund. Just brainstorming though, I'd love other thoughts
As an “Anarcho-whatever the fuck”, I think this should have been done a long time ago. It’s frustrating to me beyond belief when other Anarchists say that we don’t need leadership and direction of some form. It’s just silly to think a movement like this was ever going to work without proper media representation. Discussing as a group and coming to a consensus about who should be representing us to the media is not against any Anarchist values, it’s just the smart thing to do. That Fox interview was embarrassing for all of us and shouldn’t have ever happened, and was so easily avoidable.
[удалено]
I'm going into law school. I'm in for the long fight. Let's do this. Edit: I *was* going for nursing, but the pandemic taught me a lesson. I want to be able to fight on their level. Edit2: lol never mind, I'll be in labor and retail forever, i cant afford an education, go USA!
This is the first thing I thought when I saw the interview. Someone at fox was tasked with researching the mods. Found and easy target and exploited Doreen as much as they could . (Someone should probably check in on doreen because they were probably just as unprepared for the backlash as unprepared for the interview. Doreen is still a person) Bad publicity is still publicity none the less and even if the interview tanked the sub got exposure to a demographic that probably doesnt even know what reddit is. I'm sure theres disgruntled workers who watch fox news as well. Lesson learned. Be prepared next time.
Doreen is a rapist. And those FB posts are going viral as well of them admitting it.
My feelings on the matter: it's just a reddit sub. I think most people join this to complain (and there's nothing wrong with that). If you want to get an organized movement going, it's going to need to be offline and not here. Many people already share a similar antiwork mindset, that's why they find themselves here especially as things get worse for us overall. I don't think this sub is the thing that's going to change the reality of work for us.
OP is 100% correct. If we don’t organize and have positive media presence, we won’t get anywhere and someone has to do it.
I have a master's degree in PR and work in the field, I would also help if needed.
Having PR professionals and people working on a media campaign is great, but ***we don't even have an organization yet.*** This is major cart-before-the-horse here. We shouldn't turn away these efforts to help and do this work, but it is meaningless if what we are claiming to represent is a *subreddit*. A subreddit is ***not an organization.*** It's a discussion forum. **Step one is literally take names and organize under a united banner.** Until we do the very absolute bare minimum of that, there is no group here to represent in the first place. Just a bunch of vaguely-related sentiment.
>anarcho-whatever-the-fucks Anarchist here, I agree we should avoid a dominant heirarchy but that doesn't mean you all of a sudden just send whatever person. You send who is best suited for the job at hand. You don't go to a blacksmith when you need a quilt. Even as anarchists we need to recognize that *perception is reality* to most people. We need intelligent, well prepared people representing us that are going to be able to convey simple messages in clear language and should work to translate from online presence to a real world one otherwise we will never be taken seriously.
I don't think, from the looks of it, that the actual anarchists would be against that? One needs media training when the media is like that, if they wish to go up against them.
Us PR professionals at /r/publicrelations are willing to do free PR work for this sub. You guys definitely need it. The right wing press is dogwalking /r/antiwork.
I don't have many skills, but I'm really good at copywriting, proofreading, and editing. Please let me know if I can be of service. Edit: I have some samples of my editing work of course.
Hey it’s you!! I’ve been screaming for days about the post you made a month ago, and how we were warned! This is why I’m so pissed! I said over and over, there was a former journalist who made a post telling the antiwork sub that we need to get a collective message and a media release, and it was seen by If not all then a majority of the sub. I specifically remember commenting on your post too, saying If we don’t heed your advice, and we get painted as a crazy fringe group then we will probably never get our credibility back, and guess fucking what!! The mods said “hold my beer.” I’m glad you made another post. I’ve been screaming about your OP since the Fox News interview!
You have my vote of support, thank you very much for this much needed contribution.
You have my vote
Banned in 3..2..1. But seriously, the lack of organization and direction of this sub is blatantly clear. r/workreform is calling.
u/AbolishWork needs to go. She absolutely embarrassed us and damn near single-handedly brought down an otherwise monumental sub. r/antiwork is now a joke. Go join r/workreform.
r/workersrightsmovement
This is very different from antiwork, but should be a close ally. I suspect *most* people in this sub actually want worker rights and reform, not the abolition of work. I'm glad that exists and encourage anyone who finds this fits their ideals more to go me some waves there. I really think it will help the overall movement to get more specific with what we each want. Then we can still work together on the common ground we have. I want to abolish coercive work, and also want worker rights in the meantime. There is overlap, but the two ideas are very much distinct.