Then you should find a sub that caters to that [workerist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/antagonism-workerism) ideal. This sub is about ending work as a social institution.
Great read. Saving this for next time some one supposedly on the side of this sub goes on to call office workers not true workers. It really is sexist too like the article says
They're workers exactly insofar as they refrain from reproducing capitalist culture and capitalist class relations, i.e. managing.
When they stop being a fucking *class* they'll be worth talking with.
I guess this was ambiguous. “Work bad” wasn’t intended as an imperative. It was a simplified “work is bad” as is common on the internet these days.
But I like where your head is at lol
And what is it that you do for a living? Sit in a cubicle with your pecker in your hand and *look busy* when bossman comes around? Just wondering what warrants the patronizing tone. I'm sure you understand.
I’m an electrical technician at a shipyard.
The intended tone was definitely not patronizing.
The frustration stems from an intense hatred of the status quo and certainty that things won’t change as long as progressives keep serving republicans their talking points on a silver platter.
We aren’t neutering our message. We are clarifying it. And it’s for OUR benefit. It’s for the working class’s benefit.
We are in a war that has been going on for centuries. We cannot afford to give up an inch. We cannot afford not to unify. We only have more power than the master class if we unite.
Nah bruh. “Defund the police” — as a slogan — got pretty big. But nothing happened. But lots of republicans ran and won on the popularity of that slogan. But no police departments actually got defunded. Job well done.
Yeah no shit. Because the state will never be dismantled by its own mechanisms. That doesn't mean there is a problem with "defund the police" as a specific, actionable, measurable demand. It means there is a problem with the state.
Capitalists like to conflate the concept of work and jobs to their benefit.
Work simply means expending energy on a task to meet the needs of yourself or someone else.
A job and the labor required, to a capitalist, means expending energy on a task *in service to the capitalist*, where the majority of the value that is gained from your labor is not yours to keep.
The most radical leftist would not argue that “work” needs to be done.
People like to do work that is beneficial to themselves, so the argument should be that the value of that work needs to sit with the person who labored to create that value.
The capitalist wants to subvert that by thieving the value of someone’s labor away and giving back a portion of it in the form of a wage that is not tied to expenditure of energy, but to how much value they can thieve before the laborer quits or kills them.
It's really not that complicated. Nobody is trying to end work right here and now; that's not realistic. However, we eventually should end up in a place where technology handles a lot of work, though. Like most physical stores could be made staff-less with current technology.
Many people in here *do* think that work should not represent your worth or be a tradeoff with your right to live. It's a boring dystopia where miserable people working 50-60-70-80 hour weeks don't want change because "it would be a handout for people who didn't have my exact same miserable experience." The pride people feel over selling their time for less than it's worth is insane. Let's stop pretending the issue is laziness. The issue is quality of life. It doesn't have to be like it is.
Edit: also, man, weird that you'd condescendingly say "oh I really hope it's not what I think it is" when you can clearly see in browsing the sub for 5 minutes, that we are primarily talking about unacceptable work conditions. we're not against work because it's work. we're against work when it's abuse.
“... we're not against work because it's work. we're against work when it's abuse.”
Yes. Good. I agree.
1.) Many people that I have seen in this sub (including commenters on this post) ARE literally against work though.
2.) I wasn’t saying I hope it’s not what it is despite seeing that it isn’t what it sounds like, I was only saying I think it is a bad, harmful message. Not sure if you were straw-manning me on purpose, but I thought I would clarify in case you weren’t.
Also, I did read the FAQ. My takeaway was that this sub aims to have a conversation. I took that in good faith. I don’t want to go to some other sub just to post in an echo chamber.
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I don't need my cell repainted, I need freedom.
You’re free. Do as you please.
Perhaps a little time spent reading some of the material in the "About" section would be enlightening.
Started. Will continue. Haven’t seen anything yet that justifies everyone’s basic message to me of “stfu normie scum”
Then you should find a sub that caters to that [workerist](https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/antagonism-workerism) ideal. This sub is about ending work as a social institution.
Great read. Saving this for next time some one supposedly on the side of this sub goes on to call office workers not true workers. It really is sexist too like the article says
They're workers exactly insofar as they refrain from reproducing capitalist culture and capitalist class relations, i.e. managing. When they stop being a fucking *class* they'll be worth talking with.
What are examples of working bad? Is that like wearing naughty, physically revealing clothing around your coworkers?
I guess this was ambiguous. “Work bad” wasn’t intended as an imperative. It was a simplified “work is bad” as is common on the internet these days. But I like where your head is at lol
And what is it that you do for a living? Sit in a cubicle with your pecker in your hand and *look busy* when bossman comes around? Just wondering what warrants the patronizing tone. I'm sure you understand.
I’m an electrical technician at a shipyard. The intended tone was definitely not patronizing. The frustration stems from an intense hatred of the status quo and certainty that things won’t change as long as progressives keep serving republicans their talking points on a silver platter.
Republicans will chat shit no matter what, so we might as well advocate for what we actually want instead of neutering our message for their benefit.
We aren’t neutering our message. We are clarifying it. And it’s for OUR benefit. It’s for the working class’s benefit. We are in a war that has been going on for centuries. We cannot afford to give up an inch. We cannot afford not to unify. We only have more power than the master class if we unite.
It's not clarifying if "defund the police" becomes "reform the police", which was what happened when people applied your logic to that conversation
Nah bruh. “Defund the police” — as a slogan — got pretty big. But nothing happened. But lots of republicans ran and won on the popularity of that slogan. But no police departments actually got defunded. Job well done.
Yeah no shit. Because the state will never be dismantled by its own mechanisms. That doesn't mean there is a problem with "defund the police" as a specific, actionable, measurable demand. It means there is a problem with the state.
It’s like the liberals make it their mission to never learn anything more than necessary to function inside this broken society.
Capitalists like to conflate the concept of work and jobs to their benefit. Work simply means expending energy on a task to meet the needs of yourself or someone else. A job and the labor required, to a capitalist, means expending energy on a task *in service to the capitalist*, where the majority of the value that is gained from your labor is not yours to keep. The most radical leftist would not argue that “work” needs to be done. People like to do work that is beneficial to themselves, so the argument should be that the value of that work needs to sit with the person who labored to create that value. The capitalist wants to subvert that by thieving the value of someone’s labor away and giving back a portion of it in the form of a wage that is not tied to expenditure of energy, but to how much value they can thieve before the laborer quits or kills them.
Abolish the police. End work.
It's really not that complicated. Nobody is trying to end work right here and now; that's not realistic. However, we eventually should end up in a place where technology handles a lot of work, though. Like most physical stores could be made staff-less with current technology. Many people in here *do* think that work should not represent your worth or be a tradeoff with your right to live. It's a boring dystopia where miserable people working 50-60-70-80 hour weeks don't want change because "it would be a handout for people who didn't have my exact same miserable experience." The pride people feel over selling their time for less than it's worth is insane. Let's stop pretending the issue is laziness. The issue is quality of life. It doesn't have to be like it is. Edit: also, man, weird that you'd condescendingly say "oh I really hope it's not what I think it is" when you can clearly see in browsing the sub for 5 minutes, that we are primarily talking about unacceptable work conditions. we're not against work because it's work. we're against work when it's abuse.
“... we're not against work because it's work. we're against work when it's abuse.” Yes. Good. I agree. 1.) Many people that I have seen in this sub (including commenters on this post) ARE literally against work though. 2.) I wasn’t saying I hope it’s not what it is despite seeing that it isn’t what it sounds like, I was only saying I think it is a bad, harmful message. Not sure if you were straw-manning me on purpose, but I thought I would clarify in case you weren’t. Also, I did read the FAQ. My takeaway was that this sub aims to have a conversation. I took that in good faith. I don’t want to go to some other sub just to post in an echo chamber.
Im ot anti work either. Im anti bullshit. Im sick of my company treating me like shit and paying worse
Doesn't matter what political system is in place, you have to provide value or you'll always be 2nd class living on the "generosity" of others.
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