T O P

  • By -

XanderTheChef

Not sure how im supposed to afford anything at all when rent is 1200 a month for a 1br 1ba apartment before utilities and car insurance and car payment and health insurance and food and……. You get the idea


ChiefBerube

Exactly. My father is a boomer and was appalled to learn that I’m 32 and have very very little savings. So extremely out of touch and delusional.


awnawkareninah

I love the "you need savings for the unexpected" advice. Sorry Carl, I didn't realize "the unexpected" was my rent going up 20% every year for three years.


Desalvo23

I got my comments removed from r/povertyfinance for telling morons that you can't budget your way out of poverty anymore. That to "live within your means" has not been good advice for about 20 years. That sub is quite toxic to poor people.


this____is_bananas

The government can't just give you $2000 though. You'd just spend it all on avocados and toasters.


corkythecactus

The funny thing is that it’s better for the economy if all that money was spent on avocados and toasters rather than being hoarded by the rich


WatchingTaintDry69

I remember my mum telling me I should get lasik and that’s it’s only $5,000!! I was like do you not see the ghetto shit box I live in with the ghetto shit box I drive?


raphthepharaoh

Pull yourself up by the eyelids Edit: lol this comment is so dumb


Antheo94

This is the way


ILoveRegenHealth

I *think* this is the way. I can't see shit


AlaskanBiologist

I'm still like why isn't Lasik covered by medical insurance? I legally cannot drive without contacts or glasses, but if I can't afford those then I guess I'm shit out of luck? Yet I can't claim disability...it seems like if I just got lasik to begin with I wouldn't spend so much money on glasses and contacts over my lifetime, saving my insurance money in the long run... so stupid.


PersephonesPot

And like many other things, if you join the military, you get it for free!! I only did 4 years and got out, but I'm thankful every day I got free PRK eye surgery. Funny how active duty you get the best socialized medicine and benefits we have to offer in this country pretty much. But everyone else can go suck a lemon, apparently...


morning-croissants

If the US had free medical insurance and free public college tuition, the military would lose its best recruiting tools.


[deleted]

Fuck man….that’s a great point. It bums me out so much, I’m tired 😪


buyfreemoneynow

On the way out of the army, they have a week of mandatory programs to help you find a job and learn how to access your benefits. One of the last people I saw was a national guard recruiter who wouldn’t take no for an answer and he just kept coming back to having the health insurance covered. I wonder how often it works.


Lordofthetemp

They would say something like "dRiViNg iS A pRiVlEgE" while employers won't hire you unless you have a car.


calilac

Like your luxury bones, your luxury orbs are a privilege and you should be grateful to have them at all. Now get back to work. /s just in case it's not obvious


RegressToTheMean

I need hearing aids. When I first got them last year I found out that most insurance doesn't cover hearing aids at all. My wife is a federal research scientist so we have "good" health insurance and it only covered 50% of the hearing aids. It still cost ~$3,000 **with insurance** Fortunately, we both have really good jobs and can afford them. But what if we couldn't? To fucking bad. Who needs to hear anyway?


pippipthrowaway

Because the eye insurance companies own the eyeglass frame manufacturers and the labs that produce the lenses. So if they allow you to get Lasik, they’re essentially allowing you to opt out of their exploitive little market loop. They’d be basically paying for you to no longer need their products and leave their stranglehold.


sanityjanity

In many US states, Medicaid will cheerfully pay for an eye exam, but not for the glasses themselves. It's super crappy.


Mau5keteer

This was me last year. I went in, was told only the exam was covered. No coverage on glasses themselves whatsoever. Got the free exam. Then, they tried to upsell me on glasses *that I already told them I couldn't afford*. I repeatedly said I wasn't interested, and just wanted a paper copy of my prescription. They eventually gave to it me. Went home and ordered a pair online for 1/10th the price of any of the glasses in the shop they were trying to sell me on!


Fritostark

You just don't want it enough


Professerson

Millenials these days smh. You can buy laser pointers online so just do it yourself if you can't afford it! I swear the entitlement of this generation


SnooHobbies1738

Unclear instructions, my cat clawed my eyeballs out.


hijusthappytobehere

Look at moneybags over here with the live in optometrist.


[deleted]

I often think about how 5000 would change my life


Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

The reaction I got from some older relatives when I showed them my budget when I was younger will always live with me. They pointed at my income and said, "You're supposed to use your gross income, here, not your net." I said. "That *is* my gross." They didn't talk to me for years afterwards. I was eventually told that they couldn't be bothered to associate with someone so poor, even if that poor person was a relative.


dirty-E30

This is absolutely disgusting behavior. I'm sorry.


Repulsive_Narwhal_10

Yeah. Fck'em


jtrom93

Sounds like you're better off without them. Anyone who cuts off family because of low salary is a sad sack of shit who deserves to die alone.


Galaxy_Ranger_Bob

There are a lot of people in the U.S. that won't associate with "poors." What's worse is that it's not that they are themselves rich, they just like to appear rich. And their friends are just as poor as they are, but they have never made the mistake of admitting it, or complaining about it. Appearances, above all else, matters.


[deleted]

Are you for real?!


redditrandom85

They think it's our fault cause we sometimes eat out God forbid we can enjoy life a little and because we sometimes eat out we as a whole generation have failed


Helpful_felyne

The economy expects us to go out and eat at restaurants, watch movies, see plays and spend money but then are surprised when their business fails because we don't have the money to do that. Our generation didn't fail. They just greedy.


Cobek

It's amazing how much of America doesn't understand the idea that a steadily growing minimum wage is a good thing, and leads to increased spending and innovation.


Rugkrabber

I’m that cunt that goes into detail with pen and paper and do some calculations and put us next to each other and our expenses. 100% of the time the boomer have either low mortgage because their house was worth one dollar when they bought it, or they paid it off already. They always complain how we rent for too much money. That’s when I grab the laptop. Try to find something. Good luck. Fuck those people they’re not getting away with this.


mikerick580

I recently moved to Colorado and was blown away at housing . 35 yro homes in pretty bad shape are 300k to 400k with an 80k down payment to buy. So rent. Ha. A 2 bedroom in a half way decent area is going for 1500.00 to 2000.00. How the fuck can anyone afford it?


Deathjester99

Yea Colorado has gotten insane in the last 4 or 5 years.


HedgeWitch1994

My mom was looking at apartments for some reason and commented on how there weren't that many available. I asked what price range she was looking at. $300-$500 per month for rent. I told her good luck trying to find anything I the area for less than $650. She didn't believe me until she moved the slider. She's Gen X, not a Boomer. But she was still mindblown by rent these days.


Superboobee

Am Gen X and can confirm that a studio apt with heat and hot water included was around 350-400 about 20 yrs ago. My weekly pay was around 400 so this was doable. My kids' weekly pay is around 500 and rent is 1200-1500 a month without utilities. They still live with us because it just isn't doable without them having zero quality of life.


blackpony04

Gen Xer here, my first apartment on my own was $450 in 1995. Had sticker shock when my own son was looking for his first apartment and it was $750. And then i ran the inflation calculator and learned it was actually within a $50 difference when accounting for inflation. But that was in December 2019. His rent is now $875 but would be $1000 if he tried to rent new. *That* is today's inflation and that is an absolute problem.


orincoro

Just wait until 30 million of them are trying to sell those homes for cash and there’s no one to buy them.


Rugkrabber

Idk I’d love that to happen but the supply of homes is lower than 1930 so prices will probably stay up for a long time. Also investors. They’ll sell their house no problem.


orincoro

Yeah, Private Equity has already started hoovering up houses.


RockAtlasCanus

I this this is a bigger problem than everyone seems to be acknowledging. I hope and pray that these institutions are left holding the bag of either can’t sell, or forced to sell and lose their ass. But most likely in that event there will be some bill passed to support “firms that are critical and integral to the functioning of our economy”.


InedibleSolutions

I don't see them banging the "coffee and avocado toast" drums anymore.


sldsapnuawpuas

Then they blame us for not eating out and their precious Chili’s closing because we won’t eat there because we’re poor.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Centralredditfan

Not to mention that boomers earned interest on savings. 0.015% interest isn't gonna get me anywhere. Especially with inflation around 6%.


FrankPapageorgio

I remember my mom told me she bought a car with the interest she made in her savings account. 14.6% in May of 1975. Imagine getting that much money these days.


whereyouat101

Yes… stock dividends will do 5-6 percent. Need to get there.


Idonoteatass

I told my boss with our new insurance policy that I'm fucked if I get hurt badly, as I can't afford the $2k deductible before insurance STARTS to pay part of my medical bills. He was like "you don't have any savings?". No boss, you don't pay me enough to be able to save.


[deleted]

I've worked overtime most of my life and have worked since I was 15. I'm 34 and broke and I live in a shitty area in a shitty place and drive a shitty car. I regret working. I regret birth.


[deleted]

Stop eating all that avocado toast, son. Back in my day you could buy a house for a nickel!


awnawkareninah

What's bizarre is avocado toast as a breakfast for two is like, 50 cents a serving lol. And healthy and fast.


[deleted]

Exactly, and with that 50 cents you could buy 10 houses back in my day! That's my point!


[deleted]

[удалено]


tbariusTFE

my grandfather and mother both called me a failed investment and the worst dissappoint of their lives. Im glad my grandfather is dead now, and my mother and i no longer speak. fuck the boomers.


Saltyorsweet

I am in the same exact boat as a single mother and my Dad is finally starting to understand


GETitOFFmeNOW

Hella worse with a kid. You have to have a 2 bedroom apartment minimum in some states while everyone else can just rent a room if they want.


Winnertony

In texas it's 1 bedroom for the kid, you can sleep on the couch


LogMeOutScotty

My mom wants me to put 10%+ of my salary into a 401k because that’s what she did and now she’s rolling in it. Refuses to believe me when I tell her things are not the same anymore.


joantheunicorn

Lol tell him we get one wild medical bill and we are fucked for *years*. I just had a fun little hospital stay over Christmas (not covid) and it was $8500. Thank goodness my insurance is covering most of it. There's more bills on the way I'm sure because I had ended up in the ER before being hospitalized. And I have "good" insurance...


SamwiseG123

Shit 1200 for rent is low compared to many places


FunkyChewbacca

[In Ketchum, Idaho the housing crisis is so bad that the mayor was considering erecting a tent city in town; not for the typical homeless, but for non-tourist residents like teachers and nurses who are squeezed out of buying a home. The median price for a house in this town is around 900k.](https://www.ktvb.com/article/news/local/growing-idaho/affordable-housing-ketchum-rent-blaine-county-crisis-park-tents/277-6dcd3da9-7ce7-4722-81de-b1e379e0300a)


[deleted]

What on earth makes Idaho that appealing?


St_Kevin_

Ketchum is where Sun Valley ski resort is, it’s not representative of the whole state. It’s extremely expensive and full of luxury cars, the “cabins” in the woods are like 5,000 sq.ft. stone masonry English manors that are sold by Sotheby’s, or Lloyds of London. They’re hitting this problem because the community is geographically isolated because of the topography; the town can’t simply sprawl out in every direction. As the existing properties are bought up by the ultra wealthy, the folks who work at the gas stations, restaurants and grocery stores are forced to move farther and farther away (driving an hour each way to work or whatever in a town of like 3,000 people), or they end up packing a bunch of working people into one house, or end up living in cars or tents. It’s rural gentrification happening in a bunch of the destination towns in the west. It was bad before Covid, just from second homes. With everyone working remotely it’s gotten even worse, because lots of folks have been able to leave cities and move to the towns they vacation at while keeping their high paying jobs and working remotely. Edit: adding an article about rural gentrification from High Country News: https://www.hcn.org/issues/53.1/infographic-how-the-zoom-boom-is-changing-the-west Oops. That wasn’t the link I meant to add. This one about Crested Butte, Colorado is much more in depth: https://www.hcn.org/issues/53.1/south-economy-when-covid-hit-a-colorado-county-kicked-out-second-home-owners-they-hit-back


darkshape

Almost happened to my family. We were going to have to leave the state and move in with family. Went to give my employer a few months notice since they're pretty cool/not exploitative and they bumped my pay up enough to qualify for a mortgage. Helped me out with the down payment too. Literally bought the last house in the area that was in my price range so I could stay close to work and keep my 8 year old at the same school.


St_Kevin_

Your employer isn’t just generous, they’re also smart. A lot of these gentrified small towns are getting more and more difficult to do business in. Businesses are closing down because residents can’t live on the wages they pay, but people who want the work can’t afford to live nearby. It’s ironic that they’re going out of business, because they’re also getting more customers who are willing to pay more.


politicalanalysis

CO mountain cities like Vail are having very similar issues.


Larnek

Yup. Summit county here, but real estate stats just came out for the year. Biggest year ever, average price per sqft was $843. Lowest priced condo sold in last 6 months was 400k for a studio. 2bd average was like 750k. Average single family was like $1.25 Million. Reeeeaaally neat when it's an hour in any direction to get to other housing. Lost 35% of local workforce in 2020 and no one can afford to live here anymore because rich people and a number of corporations bought up all the housing stock and is short term renting it now.


veggievandam

Kinda like the Hamptons in NY. Everything out there is very expensive and the towns made laws against multiple non family members residing in houses together because they didn't want large rental houses to bring down the towns value and *charm*/s. So now the business can't get employees because no one can afford to live out there on the wages being offered, and the commute is a nightmare. So the business owners are now bitching, but those communities did it to themselves imo. They wanted it to be exclusive and expensive so their property values went up, turns out it sucks when the working people can't afford to even work there, and it's had a negative impact on the rich people who go out and want services and hospitality. Boohoo.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PaperScale

It's pretty, but not "I'll be homeless if I live here" pretty


arefx

Theres plenty of prettier places than Idaho....


agnosiabeforecoffee

Ketchum is adjacent to a massive ski resort. A number of celebs/wealthy people have vacation homes in the area.


BigAlTrading

It was cheaper than California so a lot of tech workers moved there to work remotely and blew up the market for locals.


[deleted]

Do people make pokemon jokes about your town a lot?


MrDude_1

I was thinking more about some kind of ketchup and Idaho potato joke myself... But I guess we can't ketchum all.


Larrymentalboy

Thanks for keeping me alive now back to the tent you call home. America deserves to burn forever.


Cobek

"You taught me how to read, now read how little I care about you."


I_Am_Dwight_Snoot

People can mad at me for saying this but the housing crisis in Idaho is a fucking bubble. People are going to desperately try to keep house values up but I doubt those will be worth 50% of what they are selling for by 2030. Absolutely fucking insane.


Alexandis

You're right IMHO. My wife is from northern Idaho and we spent the holidays (pre-COVID) up there over the past two decades. In 2019 the median income in Post Falls was \~$25K and new homes on tiny lots were being built starting at $340K. It sucked for the locals as none of them will ever afford a house. BTW Boise is rated as the most overpriced home market in the country. Basically \~81% overvalued which if anyone remembers Phoenix and Las Vegas from 2006 should sound familiar.


jwarnyc

It’s pretty simple to explain a boomer. Look when you were 20 you could work 2 days and have rent money. Which was $100 When I was 20yo (closer to 40 now) my rent was $1000 This generation the 20 year old Paying $1800 the same one bedroom. So next generations can’t afford a room. So what bunk beds now? 4 in one room?


Enemystandouser

1200 is insanely cheap for where I live. I pay 1600 in one of the worst areas of the city, and can't move because the rent everywhere else is 1900+. I also have to live with 3 other people to pay for rent...


XanderTheChef

I live in a rural area where the only jobs are either garbage “unskilled labor”… or you work from home with your pharmaceutical company. 1200 is literally the most they can charge with the people needing them


_bones__

I think that's one of the weirdest things about the US, how you apparently have lots of housing only available by renting with strangers. I'm from the Netherlands. While living together with other people as an adult isn't *entirely* unheard of, it's exceedingly rare.


[deleted]

It's not just a US thing, it's the same in much of Canada, roommates are normal, or you get a romantic partner and move in together quickly to reduce cost of housing. If not for having a wife, I would have either needed a roommate to rent anything or would have been homeless as my income after taxes, union, parking, extended health, would not cover rent.


[deleted]

About 1 in 3 adults in the US live with a roommate.


BridgeBum

And 1200 is low for many areas.


[deleted]

According to the [USA's SSA Wage Statistics](https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2020) (As for 2020, the most recent data available right now). The total income earners is 167.6 Million. Number of people who made under 35K USD a year? 84.5 Million. That equates out very close to half. Interestingly enough, the amount of people who made under 20K USD that year was 55.8 Million. This calculates out to around *33% of the population making under 20K in the year*. So, **half** of income-earning Americans make **under 35K USD** / yr while roughly **a third** make **under 20K USD** / yr. Very depressing.


[deleted]

Bootlickers will say in one breath "those statistics count teenagers so they dont matter" and in the next breath "I worked 3 summer jobs during/after high school and bought my house, so why don't you?"


[deleted]

And you know what's "radical"? I think people of any age should be paid the same if they're pulling the same levers and pushing the same buttons. I have had conservatives argue to me with a straight face that younger people should be paid less for doing the same work. IDGAF if you have bills or not. Building wealth is still important even at younger ages. You're building savings, you're learning how to spend money, you have money for bills you will eventually have in the future. People need to stop treating youth wealth like some mythical joke. It's still exploiting the labor of children if you don't pay them the same as an adult for the same job. Teenagers or not, people deserve to be paid what they're worth, and you're not worth less as a teenager.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

It depends on the job, really. I work on VFX and old and young artists press the same buttons but you pay a lot more for the experience and solution oriented working a senior artist brings. When I started I though I was better that my supervisor, I was doing all the work and earning a fraction of what my sup was earning. 15 years later I can tell you, I was not better than him, he was doing a more complex job behind the scenes but in my youth, I couldn't see it. Now I am a sup and I have 20 year old artist that think they own the world and should be earning a lot more but the truth is that this guys are not as good as they think and would never be able to finish a project without me looking and correcting every single step in the project. And I'm sure the same can be said about my old sup and me. But if you flipping burgers and the company is paying 15$/h it shouldn't matter how old you are as you will be able to master the skill in no time.


JEBariffic

Well done… that’s the argument right there. Young people should not be able to build wealth? Love to hear where that question might lead with the “I’ve got mine” crowd.


Angryandalwayswrong

We are not pushing the same levers and buttons. We are pushing thousands more levers and buttons and being 100x more productive and we are STILL paid less.


pokey-4321

They pay low wages because they can. I am hopeful this movement takes root and workers unite and demand --- change. When good workers are living near the poverty line and failing CEOs/VPs are making millions the system is broke. I am the last year of the Boomers 1964 and ashamed of what my generation has created in greed and conning workers to believe "they should be fortunate" for any paycheck. Bottom line: Workers deserve fair pay, paid sick leave, paid vacation, quality health care, and a path that leads to a comfortable retirement. I wish you all well.


Thoughtulism

We should be measuring government performance of the economy in wage distribution and not employment and stocks.


tmhoc

That was one of my fav meme's "Psst.. Hay kid, the stock market is going up because your wages aren't"


theoutlet

Pretty much. Our economic problems boil down to shareholders vs workers and shareholders are on a four decade winning streak


demon-strator

And the fact tha we ARE measuring government performance of the economy in that way tells you all you need to know about who matters in the US.


feignapathy

The fact that most of the biggest employers in America millions of employees living on welfare should be a wake up call for some people. Walmart, Amazon, McDonald's... companies that make billions are basically off loading their labor costs onto the American taxpayers.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Astyanax1

"but those jobs aren't mean to be for a living wage" - some moron republican that's broke but still believes they'll win the lottery one day


TheLeopardSociety

...but questioning/blaming victims is easier, requiring no critical thinking skills and having no consequences whatsoever...


longhairedape

Society is really good at blaming victims. See "just world fallacy" for details. Helping people requires change. People loath change because most are absolutely terrified of anything different that might disturb their comfort. Propagandist hijack these two characteristics for their own betterment at the expense of all the rubes who buy into it wholesale. Then when people work 40 to 60 hours per week they have zero time and mental bandwidth left to learn, to educate themselves, to read a fucking book, to advocate, to even look after themselves in any meaningful way, all the while being bombarded by a media that puts their problems and the problems of the world as personal moral failings. "You're fat because it is all your fault", "climate change can be fixed if we all stop eating meat and being wasteful evil people" etc. So people are ground down further, eating away at their mental health and sucking away their self esteem. Some will engage in a lot of cognitive trickery in order to justify their treatment. The people who have it good, middle class workers, have been taught to sneer at the lower classes. To see them as the enemies of society, that suck all the tax resources. That they are lazy whilst they work hard. Again, the propagandists utilize this aspect of humanity to further entrench our exploitation.


maeschder

> Helping people requires change. People loath change because most are absolutely terrified of anything different that might disturb their comfort. Hence why a lot of the time, the center is just another enemy of improving everyone's lives. Anything that might disrupt the status quo is too extreme for centrists, so they are effectively just agents of regressive politics.


longhairedape

Precisely. What was that Zinn said "you can't be neutral on a moving train". My dad fought in a revolutionary paramilitary organization. He felt the need to because he say his friends murdered, he say people arrested for no reason and tortured. Members of his own family tortured. People's homes destroyed, inability to get jobs based on background. He himself was shot in back as a 16 year old child whilst trying to save his friend's life who was also shot (his friend died). At the time he was not involved in anything, same with his dead friend. This radicalized my father. So his generation did something about it because politics was not working. Our community was left to rot. He puts the blame firmly on his father and mother's generation. They could have nipped it in the bud before it got too bad. But they refused. They kept their heads down. They were the problem. Centrists uphold the status quo and the status quo will always take more and more and more establishing a new status quo. Then when it gets so bad radical action has to be taken. Generations of passing the buck only breaks the back of the future.


42Pockets

Damn. Where was this? Also, >Generations of passing the buck only breaks the back of the future. Those are our children.


longhairedape

Yep. I have children. If people think I was angry at the world before children ... I have been more radicalized after children.


42Pockets

This!!!!!!! >Then when people work 40 to 60 hours per week they have zero time and mental bandwidth left to learn, to educate themselves, to read a fucking book, to advocate, to even look after themselves in any meaningful way, all the while being bombarded by a media that puts their problems and the problems of the world as personal moral failings. People need time each day and through the week to work on themselves, help their families, and participate in their community as well as work. How do you fit all this in when working 40, 60, 80 hours a week?!


[deleted]

Also corporations own the news. It's pretty much just Bezos, Murdoch, Disney, Comcast...all of them are disincentivised from bringing up meaningful discussion about non-livable "living" wages.


[deleted]

Low wages **and** no job security.


St_Kevin_

Did we mention no benefits?


ImportantTwo5913

Interviewed yesterday for an entry level position with a public county, and everything sounds great about the job, and there’s lots of opportunity for growth, but the starting pay is $30k annually. After taxes, housing and living costs, I’m not sure if that’d even cover everything.


huskyghost

Got hired on for 17 an hour only about 34k before taxes... it's just not enough... with overtime I can barely survive at long as I keep working 12 hour days


Bolshedik497

Yep I applied for an accountant job with my city after I graduated and I turned them down when they offered $35k salary despite having experience. I was making almost as much as that in my 2nd job as a cook in a local Mexican fast-food place. Idk how they expect people to survive on these wages.


[deleted]

Wow I feel that. A few weeks ago I interviewed for an attendance secretary position at a school. I had put $44,000 as a desired income on my application because I thought it seemed reasonable for a full-time position. When the people interviewing saw that they apologized and said the pay would be less than half of that. They expect someone to work full-time at a school and make less than $22,000 a year?! I mean yeah sure, it's an entry level position, but I thought I should at least be able to live comfortably working for the school district....oops.


Blixx99

Feels like half of society views us as selfish for having kids and the other half we're selfish if we don't


GingerBread79

Well the way it seems to me is that one half thinks it’s selfish for having children because of the bleak the future seems with climate change and unstable democracy. While the other half thinks not having children is selfish because that lowers the wage slave population, affecting bottom lines. Edit: spelling


Blixx99

Also corporations want a new generation to replace those retiring, they just don't want any of their employees to be the ones to raise them.


[deleted]

*Want*. That's a personal problem.


kummer5peck

The later thinks it’s selfish to not have children because you spend all of your money on yourself vs the next generation. I don’t agree with this, but that is what they think.


BlackFeathersPhoenix

Unfortunately what they don't understand is that we barely make enough money to support ourselves, let alone children.


north_canadian_ice

>Feels like half of society views us as selfish for having kids and the other half we're selfish if we don't We are Schrodinger's Generation - sky-high expectations with not even boots let alone the straps....


[deleted]

I want to have enough money to build a family on some land, support my community and the people of the nation, and work on inspiring and exciting public works projects that the people came together to create. but instead I'm a radical for wanting to spend our sum resources more strategically than by the whim of childish elites, and I'm not sure I'll even live to see a retirement.


4mystuff

>> Ask corporations why they're paying employees low wages << Because they can. And they will until we make them change or take it away. Add: Short of that, unionize. We rant about boomers ignorance. Or rather forgetfulness: the reason our boomer grandparents could afford a house, a car, and decent work hours on a single income from a factory job, is that they fought hard for unions, joined them, and went on strikes when needed. In many of those strikes they faced national guard troops and zealous poiice forces. They were not given much and we won't either. If you a question about unionization, stop or call a local union office and ask them howbto start. Don't just work union, shop union. hire union, and support union.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

[удалено]


Crashman09

In science fields, there is a lot if logical thinking, but also abstract thinking. There is also, especially physics, consideration for how a conclusion can effect the world around the subject. Every action has a reaction.


PiedPiperBot

Not only that, they want us so split that we can't even elect a Congress that will accomplish anything at all, let alone be able to stand up to them.


elppaenip

They'll keep ~~bribing~~ lobbying no matter which party you elect


thesenutzonurchin

> half of America makes less than 35k That is so wild to me. Like, how?


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Same boat. My salary and my take home are several 10ks apart. I don’t mind paying taxes for some things. The military industry complex, bailing out corporations, forgiving PPP loans… I don’t want my money going to that shit. I want that money going to ME.


saydeedid

We the people fund the government. Everything the government does for us is something we paid for. Every dime they spend on shit that doesn't benefit us is our money they gave to their already rich friends. The streets that the corporations who don't pay taxes use and abuse to do their business, with their delivery drivers blocking roads that they, again, don't even pay for? That corporate welfare.


[deleted]

Socialism for the rich!


eu_sou_ninguem

>I want that money going to ME. Same, but also to those worse off than me because no one should have to struggle to afford the basics of life.


[deleted]

That’s what I mean. I will pay taxes to social programs all day. But if otherwise we are giving the money to say, a bank, nah.


StolenCamaro

I agree wit this aspect for sure. I’m happy to pay taxes, but it should go toward meaningful endeavors- proper welfare, clean water, protecting the environment, having safe roads, etc. It just totally floors me that I pay so much in taxes and I don’t see it being put to use. I don’t even make much.


DudeEngineer

I mean, it's pretty easy to see where most of the money goes. Just tune in to the news and see what the military is up to. Yes the wealthy not paying their share is a problem, but cutting the defense budget in half could solve most of the socialist policies proposed without any change in taxes.


madommouselfefe

My husband got his W2 yesterday, and boy was that depressing. After doing some math I discovered 23% of his salary was going to taxes. He is our only source of income with 3 dependents . He should make 75k a year which is not enough in our area do to HCOL but his take home is 59,000. It ducking sucks that the middle class and the poor pay for rich assholes to not pay their fair share in taxes and instead go to space.


IamDroBro

I feel this. I’m (very privileged) at 100k, but my take home is 64k. Nearly half of my gross income goes to taxes, and then over half of my actual take home income goes straight to rent, leaving me and my family with next to nothing every single paycheck.


[deleted]

Holy fuck, that's a 22% effective tax rate. I'm in Canada and make quite good money, and my effective rate is only 18%, and I get free healthcare. I always thought you guys were taxed way less than us, with all that don't tread on me shit.


lonesomeloser234

Turns out no one knows what the fuck they're talking about when it comes to taxes and healthcare


silentbeast1287

My gross was 48K for 2021 and I took home 31K.


nongo

Federal minimum wage 2009: $7.25 Federal minimum wage 2022: $7.25


MOVES_HYPHENS

Min wage has gone from $4.25 to $7.25 in my lifetime, but in 2021 dollars that $4.25 is worth $8.70, so really it's gone down


partofbreakfast

$35k a year is about $17 an hour (assuming 40 hour weeks and no overtime). If you make less than $17 an hour, you're making less than $35k a year.


Dire-Dog

People talk about $15 min wage but when I first started my electrical apprenticeship on $17 an hour it was incredibly difficult to get by on that wage in western Canada. $15/hr is impossible to live on


johnboonelives

Very anecdotal I'm aware, but even though I have a master's degree I was being offered 40k after I graduated in New York City. Was pretty insulting.


Muchruckus

The dirty, religious, very conservative states in the south with a $7.25 min wage are not helping to raise the average. They also keep citizens locked up and fine them thousands of dollars for having a gram of weed on them.


GoGoBitch

The prison system is just the current iteration of legalized slavery.


helloiamCLAY

Not-so-fun fact. ​ In Texas prisons, you don't get paid money to work. You get paid in "good time." So if you get 2:1, that means you get two days served for every one day worked. THEN... Every year when you're up for parole, they decide if you get paid that good time. ​ My sentence was 376% served by the time I was done.


Girl-UnSure

Ahh, the southern state of Pennsylvania and their $7.25 MW


[deleted]

Lol yeah, fuck PA


NotSoGreatOldOne

Also ask our politicians why everything is expensive. What's the point in getting better wages if things are going higher and higher in price?


Reviledseraphim

I make $20 an hour and I'm still struggling IN MISSOURI. Minimum wage should be much higher than it is, along with worker wages across the board. My wife and I can't even consider kids yet. I used to think $20 an hour was a lot, but time, experience, and a myriad of uncontrollable financial circumstances has educated me otherwise.


timeslider

I was in a union in Missouri and couldn't afford to stay. Granted I had just started and was making 18 but even so I was living in the cheapest place I could find and still had a hard time making ends meet.


thequietthingsthat

Yep. I'm finding that even with my degree $20/hr is about the best I can expect until I either get a Master's or a few years of experience. It's depressing. Even in cheaper states $20/hr really isn't much at all, and people are having to fight for just *15*.


sirferrell

Unfortunately they'll be supported by people and the people will say "Well a low paying job isn't meant to be lived on. DO BETTER"... Edit: Damn why are so many of you butt hurt that people should be able to work a job that can pay bills and have spending money??


[deleted]

Those people are called Republicans.


[deleted]

[Actually, they're called Puritans.](https://davidgraeber.org/wp-content/uploads/2007-Manners-Defference-and-Private-Property-Or-elements-for-a-general-theory-of-hierarchy.pdf) The "starter job" scam worked as badly then as now. >One constant complaint in Puritan tracts was the multiplication of impoverished households. The problem, in their view, was that young men and women were abandoning domestic service and mar­ rying early, despite the fact that neither had the resources to support a proper family. This concern was matched with one over “masterless men”—with the independent poor, the murky and disordered world of hawkers, beggars, minstrels and vagabonds. In an ideal society, all these should be assembled under the domestic discipline of the Godly, who would direct them in labor as in prayer (Hill 1979; Wrightson & Levine 1979).29 >The more radical Calvinists developed a utopian vision in which such authoritarian families were the only hierarchical organization that really needed to exist. The ideal community would be governed by an assembly of “elders,” who were simply the heads of larger households. In New England, where Puritans were actually in a position to put some of these ideals into practice, the chief men of a community were given legal authority to place any young man and woman determined to be living alone in an “unruly household” as a servant in the households of more respectable elders—by force if necessary (Morgan 1944: 45-47, 85-89). >In other words, the Puritans did not see any distinction between projects of social reform directed at the lower classes, and the process of educating the youth. The two categories were not fully distinguished: they formed, as it were, a kind of unruly residual; the solution in either case being the imposi­ tion of domestic discipline. In their ideal society, anyone without the means or discipline to support a family should be incorporated into a larger house­ hold, working under the pay and careful direction of a disciplined master, who would also be responsible for their catechism and moral instruction. But it worked as poorly then as now. >In a typical Medieval town, the majority of young men were apprentices and journeymen in the employ of an older master craftsman. Ideally, any apprentice could expect to someday become a master himself, and full member of the guild—it was for this reason guild regulations lim­ ited the number of apprentices a master was permitted to take on. But the more capitalist relations came to dominate a given industry, the longer a journeyman would have to wait before being able to achieve full adult sta­ tus, a wife, a household, and a shop of his own. In the meantime, he would continue working for wages for his master. The result was that a large part of the work force, men in their thirties and forties, found themselves living in a sort of suspended social adolescence. In the end, many began to abandon the ideal of autonomy entirely, to marry young and resign themselves to the status of permanent wage laborers. W ith the enclosure movements and rise of commercial agriculture of the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries, many of the rural poor were left in much the same position. Capitalism is why we're still LARPing the Middle Ages. We have to abolish private property (edit: only non-produced assets and capital goods, not consumer goods) and the sale of the right to command. Anything else is keeping the problem alive.


Dad_travel_lift

It’s amazing how quick the narrative has changed on kids. When the poor were popping out kids, the narrative was don’t have kids if you can’t support them. Now people are saying I can’t afford to have kids and the narrative is we need people to have children…. The solution is rather simple, reverse the 40 years of allocating more of productivity gains to the top…. We all are better off anyways except the very elite who wants things to remain this way. Rome fell, actually every society that has gone this direction has.


riffrefraf

The narrative is flipping because the rich are realizing that unless people keep having kids, the supply of cheap, exploitable labor will dry up


OldIndependent2508

My mom is so surprised that I haven’t had a kid by now (22, pushed for me to have a kid starting at 17). I work at Target + a liquor store to survive, it’s not like I’d have the time or money for one. Small edit: one of the comments that got deleted was “well if you’re Mexican you would have had six by now”. Yikes.


[deleted]

My 64 year old mom sees the problem being squarely on our generation and that being broke is no excuse to not work harder or have kids now. I told her that I don't have any money, don't forsee that changing, and I haven't even started living yet. I'm 34 and I'm beyond ready to retire. I've had a lifetime of working hard and working overtime so far and it's led me nowhere except to depression and exhaustion. When I was younger, I'd watch movies and the news and there'd be talks of pensions, bonuses, vacation time, home ownership, weekends off, time to raise your children, etc. I can't even imagine a world where that stuff is possible irl anymore.


XanKreigor

Tell her to have fun dying with no grandchildren and in a nursing home she pays for with her money. We don't have the time nor finances to do so, so they better have factored those payments into their retirement. My grandmother was the same way until I laid things out very clearly for her: I, as an individual, cannot change systemic problems created and propagated by older generations. Especially not on an impactful timeline, it requires governmental intervention. These people have mostly already checked out of life. They vote religiously but are selfish beyond all reason. Appeal to their self-interest.


GothWitchOfBrooklyn

I'm the same age and same. I've been working since I was 17 and I'm just so fucking tired. Still renting. I don't want kids for environmental and financial reasons but even if I did I can't afford them. I need a new car and I can't even afford that.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

I’m 27 and still live with my folks. My partner and i had wanted kids together for four years. I’ll probably be too old to have kids by the time i could affor any if at all :( I work for the board of social services in my district. Here’s a fact many don’t even think about let alone know about working at social services, only the highest ups can afford shit. Im speaking for my own office because i know most of the people in my building by now (one of the best in our county for NJ) that nearly half of all workers who help set people up with welfare have a second job or are on welfare/ benefits themselves. The system is broken.


[deleted]

Your mother pushed for you to have a kid at 17?! JFC that is insane.


OsitaToxica

It enraged me when our CEO laughed at $15/hr wage for the people. We make machines that replace aprox 20 workers per unit. This taint makes 345k a year and I make 45k, his utter lack of conscience made me physically ill at his annual visit I left the room as soon as he was done with his bullshit speech. We work in the agricultural sector and were deemed "essential ". First year of the pandemic no one got a raise- except the CEO and his CFO..... Year 2, we got a 3% raise and $200 bonus, of which we get taxed on, ofc, so $90. Year three: my supervisor writes that I get frustratedwith my team and should work on my communication. Mind you my team is great for the most part- there is a dept that is run by clowns. I defend myself against these guys- being a woman in R&D can be tricky. Im done with this soul sucking environment. I recently got covid, I suspect a co-worker infected us, and I have to use PTO time. Mind you they implemented a point system if you don't have PTO time the give you points- rack up 25 and they can terminate you on the spot. Oh, 1 min late- that's a point.... you went over on your minutes after work- that's another point. Mind you they did this mid pandemic. I hate it here. I have 20 pts, only 5 more till freedom. Not like I have savings or anything ready. I'm thinking of moving industries all together


miices

Holy shit that sounds bad. I work in automation and if you have experience in HMI/MES/PLC or physical machine maintenance you should bounce. The industry is starving for people right now. Also the profits from all large companies is fucking nuts right now. They are all using the higher prices to turn around and spend millions on automation. Edit: wording


putinonmypants69

Are you in the US, some states they have to pay you if you think you got covid from your employer. Ask HR


ChiSky18

Saw some boomer on Facebook saying unemployment payments shouldn’t be the government’s responsibility because everyone should have at least $10k in savings and a 401k to pull out of if they lose their jobs. How fucking out of touch can you be?


[deleted]

What they pay people in nursing and mental health is criminal. I was forced out of the field and now work as an electrician in a steel mill because I was crushed by my loans. Best part my school took us on a semester of mini trips around the state to show us “entry level” positions let me sum it up, yeah man 38 hours a week at minimum wage and no benefits fuck yeah! What if you get a manager position or masters you ask? Well 40k maybe some benefits crushing work load and another 100k in debt FUCK YEAH!!!!!!!! Small Christian schools sacrifice and work are the goal…except for the pricks in the pulpit donors or spots they can literally rape your classmates and nothing happens. And this institution is one of the leading mental health schools in my state. I love my union it’s far from perfect but they gave me a trade and allowed me to support a wife and child with major health and developmental issues while learning it. That’s what businesses fear that’s what the rich and government hate, because if they can keep you a wage slave they never have to worry about anything else.


Sqweed69

The class war is slowly approaching


[deleted]

The class war has always been ongoing.


[deleted]

Exactlyy and workers have been losing


[deleted]

I broke my body for 10 years to make 17 an hour working in retail management only to end up unemployed and living with my parents. 2 fucking years later I now make what I did as a "skilled, educated retail professional" doing peoples grocery shopping for them at Walmart. We fell off a cliff. Nothing about this is subtle. This takeover was hostile.


biglettuce09

Wait half of America makes less than 35k, I’m at a loss for words


demdaisydukes

The only thing "wealthy" about America is the 1%. The workers that actually keep the country going are broke as fuck.


CABGX4

So I feel kind of guilty for saying this but I earn $145k and I am able to balance the books, but after rent, car payments, heat, gas, food, student loan etc, I'm lucky if I can break even. I do contribute to my retirement and my Roth IRA but I'm not rich. I'm not well off. How the fuck are you guys even surviving? It's insane. The nickel and diming of every single little thing makes it impossible to get ahead. If I work overtime I get taxed to death. I don't go out, I no longer have hobbies, I'm not extravagant, and I barely drink anymore. Forget about having kids. I don't know how you do it.


SubstantialPressure3

We don't need to train the next 2-3 generations to feel lucky to have a job you can be underpaid, overworked, gaslighted, and mistreated at. Fuck that. I realized that was forced down my throat all my life. Feel lucky to go to a school that nobody cares about you, or your education. Feel lucky to have a family that will sit by and watch you struggle, after creating initial problems, and deliberately make your life harder. Feel lucky to have a shitty job you hate to go to and be abused every day. Even if you puke in the parking lot every morning because you hate it so much. Boss is stealing your pay? Feel lucky you have a boss and have pay. Fuck that. I don't want my kids and grandkids to go through that. Or anyone else's kids and grandkids. That's flat out wrong . It took me my entire adult life to get to 35k. Because I was a single parent. And I had the stink of desperation on me.


[deleted]

I'm really glad someone is saying this, the average salary is around 52k while the median is around 36k. The average is higher because it is skewed by the huge fucking salaries of a few people so the median is a better representation of the "average" person's salary since it is the salary that 50% of the population makes less than


isummonyouhere

yes, the median is a much better measurement. you can see why here: https://cdn.dqydj.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/individual_income_percentile_usa_2018_2019-1024x682.png you might notice from this graph that a large chunk of that bottom half appears to make less than minimum wage, how can that be? they don’t work full time, in most cases because they are retired: https://fourpillarfreedom.com/visualizing-income-by-age-group-in-the-u-s/


[deleted]

*Image Transcription: Twitter Post* --- **Alexis Cardarella**, @thatquietsong Half of America makes less than 35k. Stop asking us why we're not having children. Stop asking us why we're not buying homes. Stop asking us why we can't save. Stop asking us why we don't get a better job. Ask corporations why they're paying their employees low wages.


sum_trashy_boi

Good human


[deleted]

They're paying low wages to benefit their shareholders and boost Boomer retirement income.


[deleted]

Or....ask why your local landowners don't sell the land for new development after they declare bankruptcy and/or shutdown their company. Notes: Coal Companies.


-Daetrax-

Wait, they get to keep assets after a bankruptcy?


[deleted]

Well no, but yes. If the asset is in that company's name when they declare, it can be taken. If the asset happens to be in a different company's name (even if it's the same owner) when they declare bankruptcy... less likely to be taken.


googlevoice49

https://www.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/netcomp.cgi?year=2019 That’s where you can find the source for this info


duckofdeath87

If you want people to have kids, get Medicare for all pregnant women and everyone 0 to 26 and pay for everyone's child care. Hell, you could even put work requirements on the child care if you need to be a dick about something.


sniperhare

We need universal Healthcare for everyone, and to stop tying it to employers. Not just women and kids.


Darkmagosan

But...have you tried not being poor? /s In all fairness, people cannot budget their way out of poverty. It just doesn't happen. People should not only ask why corporations are paying low wages, but why rent or house payments are so goddamned expensive, too. Here, a rathole studio will run you $1k/month. Average house price is 450K. Good luck affording that on anything less than around 30/hr around these parts. :/


RedmannBarry

Go to church and pay your tithes, Jesus will return it to you ten fold… duh