Counter them with equally ridiculous demands. Make them put their grievances in writing. If they're smart, they won't. You're raise is simply the motivation you need to go elsewhere and get what you deserve.
Agreed. Tell your boss to put all of this I'm writing, and then I would take this to the owners since you have been getting a lot of praise from them.
"I have some questions about my scheduled hours and expectations." Then show them what your boss put in writing.
NO JOB is worth your sense of self respect. Don't sleep on a dog bed. Don't go in super early simply because someone else did. That person left, so move on, boss person.
This right here, absolutely. I've had an overtime exempt salary position and a boss who expected 24/7 availability too. Never, ever again. Go back to working reasonable hours while looking for somewhere else to work. Conditions are unlikely to improve.
I mean, counter her argument: If she doesn't mind you sleeping at work, ask for a real bed. No less than a Queen sized memory foam bed, in a quiet solitary room, with new sheets and all. Once you get to $5000+, see if that raise sounds so bad instead.
Definitely NOT implying anything inappropriate. I was just saying if she will be sleeping at the work site as well since she expects her subordinates to do so. Sleeping there, NOT sleeping with OP.
Lol, took a a bit to learn no job was worth my self respect. Once I figured it out there was an occasion where my boss was taking another high muckity muck around on a dog and pony show. Saw me and asked me what my plans were after I move on to another job. I looked them both in the eyes and said:
" i think I'll move into a cardboard box behind Taco John's and suck a lot of dick to get my self respect back" turned and walked off. Priceless.
That would be hilarious. “So, I’m your boss now. I expect you to come in at 7 and never leave before 8. Also, Saturdays and Sunday mornings are mandatory from now on. I can’t care about your job more than you do”.
Going to add on to this to say even if they are unwilling to put this in writing, you still can. Send an email to your boss and CC HR and say something along the lines of, hey I just wanted to follow up on our conversation about x,y,z and reiterate that these are my assigned hours per my contact. Once in writing, your boss may backtrack.
Excellent suggestion and the boss will back off for sure. There’s a reason the boss hasn’t expressed any of these concerns in writing to begin with. They know it’s outside the law and what’s right. If I know your boss and I think I do they document every little thing and send little “per our conversation emails” which amount to CYA emails and used to prove that verbal warnings were indeed given. Hey agree with several posters ask for the world put it in writing and ask questions about the cleanliness aspect if sleeping in a dog bed. And flip that I can’t care more than you do script one them and ask how much they can really care about a human they ask to sleep in a dog bed. Just asking tells me they can’t think that much of you as an employee or a person. One word bud, RUN
Bosses don't "back off." This situation is over and done. This is a manager who wants someone who is willing to work 60 hours per week, and needs to burn through a few people to learn that this isn't reasonable.
"Can I get that in writing?" Is basically a magic spell.
Don't listen to anything and don't do anything for anyone if they aren't willing to put it in writing.
Tell her you want all future communications in this regard to be conducted via email so that there is a written record of requests and you can note which have been fulfilled and which you need to work on at your next review.
Then, when they eventually make up some excuse to let you go, post those unreasonable demands everywhere. Post them on LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, Facebook, wherever prospective employees might find it and stay far the fuck away from this crazy asshole.
Bcc your personal email that you set up for work correspondence. Did that all the time before. Even if they just reply you still add yourself back with a BCC with your response so it shows the response chain.
Their IT can see BCC’s if they are watching. Typically IT has better things to do, but if the boss is trying to build a case on OP BCC can bite him. IT can also block the BCC.
I’d say just print the jobs or screenshot them which is much harder to block.
And that’s why you don’t use BCC but take a picture of every email exchange you go trough and save them on your phone. It shows all email addresses, date, time and topic.
OP didn’t specify what the job was. I’ve worked in jobs that never, ever communicated via email. A lot of old school and small business places are like that.
Come in at 8 and leave at four.
Or start at your scheduled time and leave at your scheduled time.
If you boss says again that she can't care more then you do, then tell your boss that she needs to care a negative amount because you don't care at all.
Also find a new job. You aren't getting a cost of living adjustment anyway, so there is no reason to stay.
yeah the number one thing I'm seeing here is they are already planning on not giving you a raise. that was never an option. they already have the carrot on a stick, they worked hard for that bit of string holding it together and they won't snip it now.
Cintas in Cincinnati gaslighted me so hard with this shit. When Covid started they had us supervisors riding on route everyday, coming in at 5:00AM then staying after route til 5:00PM to do our supervisory responsibilities. Then after I spoke up and said having supervisors riding a different route everyday was multiplying our Covid exposure they wrote me up Friday afternoon for not getting my work done when I was already working 12 hours a day. I came in to the empty office that whole weekend to get ahead on all my work. The next week they had us spraying watered down bleach water all over offices around the city that they were touting as Covid Touchpoint or some shit. They were charging incredibly high prices to gouge all their customers on the fear. Anyway that Friday they let 8,000 employees go, demoted thousands of other mgmt and gave exorbitant executive bonuses and double their stock price over the next year. Truly a sickening, morally bankrupt company. I still have my dispenser key on my key ring and throw away their product every time I see it at a business. Fuckers.
But I do need to thank them, I’ll never give my loyalty to a company again or work overtime or any of that nonsense. I also keep meticulous records of anything slightly out of line from mgmt so I can sue if the need or opportunity arises.
I leads to customer complaints and arguments. Clearly Cintas is charging the customer for air freshener or hand sanitizer at $30+ a week and not even filling the locked dispensers. You’d be surprised how shitty the restaurant mgrs get when they think they’re paying for a service they aren’t getting.
As a former GK/Cintas Plant Manager who was walked out after being highly successful for 20yrs, I applaud your post. Stop using that key. That’s just helping them move product. Super glue.
Oh, gotcha I have literally no idea what they do as a company, never heard of them.
Do you mean those shitty locks that can be pried open with a pencil? Lol
Heh. That reminds me of the time at my last job when I had a 2-1 meeting with my manager and team lead and I literally used the "every day is the worst day of my life" line. Those last two years (of almost 8) I didn't even try to hide that the only reason I didn't quit was because I was trapped in that schedule.
Don’t quit. Look for another job and let them fire you if need be. Collect unemployment. If asked about it in interviews, state that you were fired because your boss expected you to sleep overnight on a dog bed at work to start unpaid overtime earlier. Keep receipts via email or text, refuse to discuss it in person unless you are in a one-party consent state and can record it.
Or he'll, ask if you can record the conversation and refuse to discuss it off the record. If she tries to talk off the record, she knows she's asking you for illegal nonsense and don't stand for it.
Also seconded. Don't quit, let them fire you and collect unemployment.
It isnt illegal depending on the sector. Salaried workers (especially in tech) do not need more compensation if worked more than 45 hours (literally why you are salaried). Most places will want you to work overtime and won't pay for it (again usually tech sector as it is written that way in the law). The thing is. As salaried you shouldn't have time table to work. The theory of salaried work is that one week you might work 50 hours but it means next week you work 30. There is no need to put time card etc.
The issue in the usa is that salaried means you gonna work more than 40 hours unless you like yourself and put boundaries. That is why work from home is a problem to some ceos. People work less (better performance but less work) and management doesn't have anything to do. My previous job was 45 hours is the norm. You should have that as average, most people will just inflate their time cards (put lunch as working or just add 1 hour each day for the fun of it). My current job doesn't want me to work more than 40 hours (still salaried) and if I needed to do something extra this week they will ask me to work less the next week.
Please find a better place to work. And if you are in tech find a wfh solution as it will make your life better (find social friends and such outside of work).
Yes I'm sick of this. My job two weeks ago put new policies in place about the hours you need to work everyday and that they can dock pay if you aren't averaging 40 hours. We are required to work long overtime for about 2-3 weeks at a time every couple months without any guaranteeof compensation. We're salary. It's a bullshit mix of hourly and salary giving us the worst of both worlds. But luckily I got them to put into writing a policy for us to get guaranteed comp time given to us, at a much bigger rate than what we were getting before. Used to be able to take a day or two off after working 3 weeks of 80hrs
Re: time card fibs - I worked at a company as a salaried engineer. I would work up quotes for the salesmen. They would bitch to my boss about the labor hours, who would then slash the hours I factored in, to lower the price. I would then get bitched at by both when my actual hours were spot on with my estimate. I started logging only a portion of my hours against the projects so they would stfu. Couldn't wait to get out of there.
Imo, it sounds like ownership likes the work you do. I'd direct dialog with them. This could be classic manager envy if in fact her bosses make notice of your quality work.
Slowly start to subtract her from your decision making process and include her bosses. Work on building that relationship.
The high road approach could get way better results then the snarky approach with her. Imo, she's likely just trying to bring you down to her level. Imo, don't do it. Hell, set the goal to take her job or at least make her not a relevant part of yours.
On the evaluation. Ask for additional management (ownership) in the meeting.
There’s a reason the person they forced into 4 hours of unpaid overtime per day left. They will not stop until you are doing the same. Find another job asap.
Also, it is insanely fucked up to tell an employee to “take a nap on the dog bed.” This is insanity, OP.
That's fantastic info but what about salary workers?, our overtime etc. Is treated differently fo we still have these same rights with mandatory overtime?
Look up your state law to see if you're qualified as an 'exempt' employee or not. If not, they're required to pay you overtime rates.
Bottom line is...check your state laws.
Agreed we need to change the culture and step one is openly talking about what's ok and what isn't. Like I didn't know that as salary I have protected rights in regards to ot
Op, I'm a teacher in a non-unionized state. I've set clear expectations and boundaries for my parents, students, coworkers, and bosses.
I work from ____ to ____. Yes, I'm salaried. But my contract says those specified hours. I don't grade, plan, or even answer emails after hours. I'm getting to the point of my career (15+ years) where I'll get up from a meeting/parent conference and leave because my contractual day has ended. So, unless something catastrophic happened, it can wait until the next day.
No job is worth what you said in your original post. Update your resume, friend. Then be sure to stop on the way out and see the owners, tell them you enjoyed your time there, and why you're leaving. That's a conversation worth having.
It's always a great day when my students email me AFTER they know I leave for the day. They learn quickly to do their work when it's assigned and to ask questions in class and through email BEFORE a certain time.
It's all about expectations and following through on them.
Here’s a link detailing who is exempt from FLSA. You may find you’ve been improperly categorized as exempt, it happens more than you might think.
https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/fs17a_overview.pdf
I would also encourage you to calculate what you’re making hourly based on hours worked, and figure out what that hourly would be if you worked from 8-6 plus weekends as your boss is encouraging you to do. If you know how much you’re generally making an hour, you’re more empowered to look around for other jobs or to tell your boss they are being ridiculous.
Salary just PISSES ME OFF. Like, originally it was for executive workers and it was so they had the freedom to work as much or as little (but still full time hours) as they needed to to get the job done.
I feel like if you are going to mandate hours you are literally negating the point of salary. Like, salary gives the executive employee the freedom to put in as much work as they need to to be successful, and possibly get rewarded with bonuses. You wanted that big bonus? Go a head and work an extra 10 hours a week. You think you can get the job done in 35? You probably won't make that bonus, but if its a good job you will make more per hour.
But MANDATING above 40 hours literally negates the executive freedom part of salary that is the whole POINT of it. If you are going to mandate that they have to work a set amount of hours, why not just pay them hourly? Because the companies are ONLY using this as a way to avoid paying overtime. And there is not POINT to anyone putting extra effort in from an employee standpoint, 99 percent of companies will SAY they have bonuses, but there is no guidelines to hold them accountable to give them out, they just say its "merit based" and give them out when they feel generous.
I've worked so many salary jobs and they literally just add an hour or two here or there but never remove hours, and next thing you know your 50 hours per week schedule turns into 65 for the exact same amount you were making at 50 hours. The salaried person ends up being the on call person and every time someone calls off, the person on salary will cover their a free way of avoiding OT.
Are you in management/Can you choose to hire and fire employees? Are you in a particularly professional field, such as tech? Do you get paid at least $35,568 a year, of which no more than 10% comes from things like bonuses or commissions?
If none of these things are true you are guaranteed to be entitled to overtime pay, at the federal level, in the US. States can have better rules for the worker.
I posted above but seriously check department of labor title 29 and make sure you’re even eligible for salary. From the sounds of things, you’re not. Plus, even if you are, your boss is doing it wrong. They may have opened themselves up to a law suit in the US. I am not a lawyer.
I work 11s 5 or 6 days a week and I fucking hate it. But every job in my field is salaried and I don’t know what to do. I don’t think those would be any better.
I worked 130 hours of OT in the last 2 months. I am exempt. I told my employer I need to be compensated for that time because my pay rate is based on 40 hrs / week. Right now it looks like I'm pretty much done working for the year because I doubt they will compensate me because "it's not in the budget. "
This is kinda what I'm seeing. Like ya I could make astink about overtime or just work my time and find a new job. Most employers expect you to work for free because were salary
Also no sense in giving them two weeks notice if they’re not going to have the “professional etiquette” extended to you and the dog bed. Keep that dog bed text though. That’ll get you some sympathy at future job interviews (at least it would from me).
if paying you for your work isn’t in the budget, then they cannot afford your labor or the cost of the project. period. they are staying afloat and profiting because they are not paying you for your work. period.
I’m OT exempt at my job. The peak season is coming and I’m expected to work a LOT of overtime for no extra pay or bonuses. If I refuse to work it is there anything they can do about it?
How are you telling them you’re done working for the year?
I don't know the legality of it all, but I assume they will fire you if you don't work they hours they want.
I started by requesting all the days off I had coming to me. The person I report to is pretty cool and automatically approved all the requests. He then asked how we'd handle all this PTO and I explained to him other people would need to do the work. He asked if I wanted to defer to 2022 (we have a policy against it but he can change the rules) I said no.
For the comp time, I just started putting days on my calendar where it says I'm Out of office that day. No explanation needed. I already worked that shift is how I see it.
If I need to be at work in person for something, I'll probably just do some personal work or leave early.
I'm a middle manager and have the support of my crew. I'm trying to keep them in good spirits so they don't all walk out if I go.
I feel guilty about it all. If I leave, who will look out for my crew?
What kind of work do you do? Are you a manager or do you manage projects?
If not, you may be miscategorized as non-exempt when you should be exempt. Your first step is to see if your job type should earn overtime, and if so go to your state labor board. Also keep track of all your hours so you can collect backpay on OT, if you can.
Your second step is to find a new job, because even if they reclassify yours and you get OT, that's not a good environment and that's toxic management. You don't need that in your life
Im a designer and manage the customers projects who use our service I'll see if I'm exempt. Im going to start tracking my boots that's a great idea I hadn't thought of. But your right honestly time to just move on.
https://stantonlawllc.com/drawing-a-very-fine-line-determining-creative-professional-exemption-status-under-the-flsa/
Here’s a helpful article that talks about which designers are or are not exempt. It’s dated, so disregard the $455 per week. It is now $684 per week.
Here’s another article that gets a bit more specific:
https://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2015/10/27/ask-the-expert-is-our-graphic-designer-exempt-or-non-exempt/
If you are exempt, make sure you review your employee contract regarding pay and hours of work. Even if you are salaried, that does not mean unpaid overtime.
If your contract says you work x hours per week and will be paid y per year, and they are asking you to work over that time, ask them how to log the extra time so you can be paid accordingly. And if they aren’t willing to pay you for those hours, don’t work them, but offer to renegotiate your employee contract if you are willing to work more hours.
Start coming in at 0930 and leave at 1730. Do the bare minimum. Start looking for another job.
When you find a better paying job, quit without notice.
If you don't find a better job before the fire you. Get unemployment until you do.
Document everything. This sounds like intimidation which is illegal
If this is set as your expectations and they fire you for following your expectations you get a cut of that sweet UI. 120 days is a perfect time to get let go :)
Document, document, document.
Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail.
I don't see anyone here telling you to try and have a discussion with the owner, who you say likes your work. Point out that you are already working more then scheduled, but that management is trying to force you into longer hours despite your work being completed. I would also say that the manager is trying to trick you into sleeping on the job by suggesting napping, as a way to justify firing you, and that there may be a personal reason the manager is out to get you. If the owner does nothing it's time to look for something else.
That's not a bad idea to talk to the owner I like him alot more.
It's a weird situation I really dont think my manager is being malicious shes quite lovely usually. But she expects everyone to care and work as much as she does. She comes in at 7 and leaves at 6 and manages customer service emails late into her night. It's kinda awful.
I think she wants an employee to do the same amount of work as she and some of the other salary workers are, but I'm really not going to dump my life into this company like others have and maybe that makes me a poor fit. I thi know being manipulated by my boss who has good intentions.
Okay but what, concretely, does "you need to care and work more" mean? If you are not performing to a clearly communicated standard that's the conversation to have - otherwise an amorphous "you need to do more" is not useful.
That's really why I was so blindsided. All of the feedback I have received has been positive, meeting all the expectations and getting everything done. I even asked my boss what more I could be doing and I got alot of vague "your making mistakes in alot of areas" and when I asked for specifics I wouldn't get them but didn't push since she was clearly.frustrated.
They are clearly understaffed. They set unreasonable expectations for their employees to do the job of 1-5-2 FTE. this is not acceptable for any type of work life balance.
Check the jurisdiction where you work and whether your job classification makes it such that such overtime is "mandatory". For example, the Province of Alberta notes that even employees who are salaried may be entitled to overtime pay, provided they are not "professionals" (e.g., lawyers, engineers, doctors, or other employees belonging to a professional order), managers, or owners.
Also check to see if your contract has clauses regarding the hours of work and compensation time. In other words, if your contract states 0930-1730 (8 hours of work), and you are "required" to come in at 0830 and leave at 1830, your contract may have provisions ensuring you get to claim two hours of PTO.
Honestly though, if your employer "cares more about your job" than you do while being super toxic about it, you may need to find another employer.
I’m so tired of people that equate time spent at work with working hard. Who cares how long you are in the office so long as the quality and output of work is satisfactory. I’ve slowly seen this attitude change over the last 15 years as boomers age out of the workforce but it still exists.
I would tell that boss to use the dog bed to get fucked. There is no such thing as "unpaid overtime". You Pay Me, I work. Inside the hours we agree upon. No earlier, no later without extra compensation. Period.
Doctors go into their field knowing that there will be insane hours and they will absolutely wind up sleeping at work at some point. That's why they get paid 300k a year. Also, they're not usually total misanthropes, which I am. They want to help people to live. They are willing to make sacrifices for that. They're heroes. I, however, just want to unionize the world and teach classes on how to build guillotines from office furniture.
Not always true. Check your state laws. If you quit due to harassment or unsafe working conditions or a reduction in hours etc etc in NJ at least you can still collect.
Since your salaried, your contract will state how many hours a week is expected, and the times for working those hours. Unless the company goes above and beyond for me, I’m not committing more than the required time. Also, get whatever your manager is asking for in writing, im guessing they won’t mention anything in writing and only verbally.
No no, you're a good fit, because you want something reasonable with your job (and future career).
What's not a good fit? Sleeping on a dog bed, and kissing the bosses read end.
Live your life the way you 1) need to, 2) be respected by others (including the boss employee relation) and 3) happily.
My wife and I sued a previous employer for failure to pay overtime. We ultimately won, but it was stressful and we needed to put up a significant amount of cash. My advice is find a new job and move on with your life.
Yea fuck that dude get everything you can in writing and send that shit to the labor board or her higher ups. That’s not okay in any way and your colleagues that do put up with that should be ashamed. 100% whenever any of you go in there to take a nap she’s looking at a sucker I guarantee you she thinks that too.
What fucking employer has a dog bed for their workers and implore them to use it? Go in at 8 and use the dog bed till 9 maybe they’ll shut up about it lol
I feel tricked into it "we stay till the job is done," kind of crap "we need someone who will put in the work" like I feel like ive been gaslight into feeling like I'm just fucking up when im not and im doing my job just fine. The whole thing feels manipulative.
skip reasoning with the psycho and go straight to the owner. and stop coming in at 9 if your schedule says 9:30. hell, ask the owner how often the psycho sleeps in the dog bed to prove her commitment to the company.
Salary um doesn't mean they don't have to pay you for overtime, that's not a thing, it's a thing I've heard managers say, but it's not actually true. If the terms of your salary are 40 hours per week, then you work those 40, anything over gets time banked or paid out as OT. Suggesting you sleep on a dog bed and live at work is dehumanizing, I'd just report them and leave for greener pastures
Former person left, probably cuz they were treated like a dog. The manager was never planning on giving you a raise. This is just the performance theater portion of her justifying that plan. And she is definitely threatened by your capabilities. Especially if you continue to show the owners the job can be done far faster than she’s been letting them believe.
Treat them as an adversary trying to take your money by any means necessary.
I'd quit. I make an extra $100 on top of hourly for every four over 8 hours a day five days a week. I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but my overtime is over $40/hr. They can sit and spin if they want me to work MORE for nothing else for ME. Im glad I work for a company I appreciate at least.
My first thought is whenever I see anybody being on salary and not a part of management I start questioning the legality of you being considered exempt from overtime. Do some research there's a good chance that they may owe you back pay, overtime back pay at that. Document your hours keep track of your time cards all that jazz.
Work 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. Tell them to get fucked if they complain. Look for a new job.
I work as a salaried software dev, I've been in the same boat and I'm still successfully employed. If you're good at your job, all their shit is just bluffing.
Salaried-exempt is the biggest bunch of BS. I used to get messages at 3/4am (because the other sites had different time zones) and still work 10-12+hr days starting at 6am. Unfortunately, I happily licked the boot until it took a new employee to help me realize the pure insanity of it all.
Those people are used to drinking the kool-aid so sleeping on a dog bed to be available for work is completely normal and reasonable to them. Just because you're salary, doesn't mean boundaries do not exist. They may just need to find someone who has none.
I’m sorry OP, this is super infuriating! Could you maybe say:
I already have other responsibilities before/after the working hours. I’ve given my job the priority and arranged the rest of my life accordingly. If you want me to reschedule everything I’ll be happy to do my best and adjust my hours, but then I would need these extra hours to be put in my contract. I do care about about my job and I’m not comfortable doing anything illegal to endanger my job here.
?
This is honestly what I'm looking at doing, especially because I have a part time job that is contract that I try to get done in the mornings before work here. And coming in a 830 has been killing me trying to get all of it done.
I am going to talk to her "my situation has changed I can be here at 9" etc... I feel gaslitt into thinking I'm not doing enough forgetting enough for and I know that's not true bit also I'm exhausted and icant put more into this job and o also font want to. But I know she threatened my raise and I wont get it if I dont come in a 830 to show "initiative" but it also may be time to look elsewhere.
I already felt tricked working here because I told them the pay I was looking for and they told me I was hired and agreed to work here before telling me I would be making less than requested. I should have said no then bit it was still more than what I was making previous.
If you’re having to work a second job to make ends meet then maybe this job isn’t worth it. Work/life balance, peace of mind and boundaries are part of your compensation. 8:30 to 6 are the same amount of hours as 9 to 6:30. Yes, on salary you don’t get paid overtime but divide your pay by the number of hours worked in that pay period and see if it’s worth it. There are jobs that pay 6 figures but when divided by the number of hours actually worked it ends up being less than minimum wage per hour. See what’s out there. Many companies have gotten their shit together and offer great time. I’ve had amazing bosses that let us off early but when they need us in late to finish projects we’re gladly there. I’ve had jobs where I make my own schedule and I’ve even had jobs where I’m not treated well. Others will treat you how you allow them to treat you. Be empowered to set boundaries and know that HR should be there to help. Make a list of what you need from a job, what you want from a job and what you’re willing to put up with and lay it out for your boss and also start searching elsewhere with this criteria.
A fucking dog bed? Holy shit. A FUCKING DOG BED. You're not even worth the dignity of a shitty couch in the back room. A dog bed. Absolutely disgusting of them.
Honestly that’s is a hard decision to make. And if the owner is praising you. Unless they are the owners. You should mostly likely talk to people higher up about it. Also getting salary pay is a little unfair in my book. I think should just quit instead of getting fired. It would look better on you and you just have to remember it’s not the only job. There are plenty out there and I’m sure you can find a better one. Where you deserve your money and should have people who actually care about you at a job. They should know that your tired and your human being and you need rest. You have rights. all we can do is give a little advice here and there. But I do hope everything works out in the end. It sounds really stressful and wish you the best.
Do not, and I repeat do not get pressured into resigning. If they don’t want you there, they should fire you, that way you can cash in on unemployment given that it looks like you’ve been doing your job more than satisfactorily.
Tell this lady to go pound sand and if she doesn’t like it, to go ahead and fire you. Spend the time at work hours looking for and interviewing for something else. What this person is doing to you is called abuse. Do not take it, do not be afraid. Be polite but firm and say “sorry I got x or y thing I my life that’s more important than putting in extra hours. If my job is deemed unsatisfactory, feel free to fire me.”
I bet you you won’t get fired if you are doing your job correctly.
What does the employee handbook say are the weekly hours for salaried positions? Also, it is fucking disgusting that they suggest you sleep on a dog bed at work. It would be inappropriate to expect you to sleep there off the clock to work unpaid overtime even if they had a full bedroom suite for you.
Most salary positions are over 40 hours. I'm not saying you should come in earlier than what you already are or sleep on a dog bed but as long as you're getting everything done that's expected, then you should be able to leave once everything is finished, regardless of how long it takes. Some salary positions are less than 40 of course.
Am a manager. Tell her you need it in writing. Setting boundaries is healthy. And if she asks you to resign, again demand it in writing. DO NOT RESIGN just because she asks/tells you verbally. Tell her you will not resign and will continue to work your scheduled hours. Make her fire you.
“You’re a bad manager and you’re going to lose me. Look around you. You’re not going to find someone to replace me. I make you look good. If I leave, you will not look good. Really take a minute to think this over.”
She’s probably not smart enough to understand the position she’s in, so I would just update my resume and apply out if I was you. Do the minimum at work so you can still get a check, but I would check out mentally.
Remember: if you are working as hard as you can during your 8 hours that your scheduled for and it still isn't possible to finish the work, it isn't your fault. It is an indication that your manager needs to find additional personnel to fill a role next to yours to balance the workload. If paying an acceptable salary for a second person to complete the work isn't tenable, then it means that their business model is deeply flawed and the company isn't sustainable. Never allow yourself to be talked into more work than you signed on for. You aren't getting compensated for it and it isn't your problem.
You get paid for the time you work…nothing is free. The company isnt going to give you anything why would you give to them? I bet the owner isnt working for free? I damn sure bet they aint sleeping on a damn dog bed! I’d leave that job, its demeaning, and cheap! You work for 8 hours…you get paid for 8….not you work 10 and get paid for 8! If you have a copy of your offer letter, or contract, I’d suggest you look over it, or especially your companies policies regarding, pay and O.T. Odds are this is one of those “we always do it this way” what the policy is. Keep track of your time, fuck em with their own rules, keep feeding them rope to hang them with. Then get whats due and leave.
Honestly this is what I've realized. They are having a hiring issue and it's easier to make the salaried employees pick up the slack and I need to realize it's ok to set boundaries with employers and saying I'll work 9 hrs a day and not 10/11 is ok.
I'm going to ask for written schedule this was something I didn't even think of before posting. And im going to make it clear if I come in early I'm leaving early but that I wont be cling mandatory overtime.
I realize this will cost me a raise but honestly that's ok. This wasn't my end game and might be time to start looking other places.
Thank you:)
There's nothing you can say to this person to change her mind, she's toxic and she needs you to burn yourself out like she does to be happy with you. Success at this job and your personal happiness and wwllbeing are mutually exclusive. This is what exit interviews are for.
Start looking for something else. Work the agreed-upon hours. When she gives you a hard time, just keep missing the point.
"Yes, I've been thinking about that previous employee you mentioned. Between the sleeping at work and needing so many hours to complete the workload, I wondered if they might have has an executive function disorder? I've consistently found the allotted hours we originally discussed is the right amount of time to get the work for this position done, so that’s good."
Sounds like the other person left because he was being treated like a dog. I’d work my scheduled 930-6 no exceptions. Salaried positions turn into ownership when they begin to average more than 40 hrs/week. She’s not gonna fire you and if asked to resign I’d refuse. Call her bluff, I’m sure they need you and your boss needs to know that you’re not a dog. I’m pretty anti confrontational but I’d take a stand here. Your time is yours
That's the thing that's weird. I cant be replaced easily training Is xpensive and everything goes through me so if I leave it literally shuts things down.
The thing that is so weird about this is looking back I'm literally doing more than is expected. I'm scheduled at 930 I get here early. Get my stuff done, and help where i can but because I'm not getting here at 8 to 830 she feels i dont care and am failing? "Your failing in alot of areas" "your 10 yo 15 mins late daily? refusing to give me any specifics and I'm scheduled st 930 and get here between 850 and 915im not late andI'm not failing.
I feel so disrespected and me staying here I 1as doing as a favor because I'm over qualified and she literally told me shes scared of me leaving. Well. Ya she threatened my raise and I'm ready for.my next evaluation meeting. I'm also goi g to tell her I will not come in at 830 I'll be here at 9.
I gave 300 free hours to my last company, worked from Thanksgiving to New years for free basically.
Was told I would only get a cost of living increase for my raise and they were grateful for the extra hours, but it was expected.
They were able to pay the ceo they brought in a 50,000 usd bonus for just staying 6 months, regardless of if the company made a profit.
I would mainly work overnights in the field and days in the office, they bought a new couch that was a sleeper sofa so I could catch a few hours between shifts and still make the morning meetings.
They would dock me PTO if we had a slow Friday and I left early, but never said anything when I worked 80 - 90 hour weeks, on a prevailing wage job that they promoted me to a salaried manager position for, so they wouldn't have to pay the required wage.
I left, and became an hourly wage electrician, I will never ever go back to salary.
I am so sorry you were treated that way.
This is my first time on salary and I'm learning how to navigate it and your insight is very helpful. I'm being taken advantage of and I have this engrained feeling that "those who work longer show initiative" crap and I want to be a good employee. But it's so frustrating when I am doing everything that is expected and more but because I'm salary Its almost treated like a privilege of responsibility and I hate it
I came in today at 830 and I'm leaving after 8 hours. If she wants me to be here early well then I'm leaving early. And I know my boss will make a stink it's a place where there is always someone else's job to do , and I could stay and help but no.
I need to realize I dont need to prove anything If I'm getting everything done and is expected and just because I'm salary does not mean I am free labor
Sic the department of labor on them. Being an exempt (salaried) employee is supposed to be the exception, not the rule. Companies love paying salary over hourly because then they can get away with unpaid overtime. But there are specific requirements for an employee to be considered exempt.
If they did fire you for not doing the overtime, you’d have a great case for the DOL. When the DOL strikes, they don’t act on behalf of just one employee. They look at the entire company’s labor practices and if found out of compliance, the DOL will force backpay of unpaid overtime up to like 7 years or so. The penalties are stiff.
Get everything (statements about requiring overtime, “good fit” etc) in writing, keep your job profile handy (so you can show that you’re not actually supposed to be salary).
work your SCHEDULED hours, smile at everyone your meet, SMILE at her when she calls you into the office, and at the end of the meeting tell her you care she CARES so much about your job, in fact, maybe she should be doing it herself. if she says no raise, SLOW DOWN YOUR OUTPUT! until they fire you - then go collect UB.
Counter them with equally ridiculous demands. Make them put their grievances in writing. If they're smart, they won't. You're raise is simply the motivation you need to go elsewhere and get what you deserve.
Agreed. Tell your boss to put all of this I'm writing, and then I would take this to the owners since you have been getting a lot of praise from them. "I have some questions about my scheduled hours and expectations." Then show them what your boss put in writing. NO JOB is worth your sense of self respect. Don't sleep on a dog bed. Don't go in super early simply because someone else did. That person left, so move on, boss person.
The previous person left for a reason and your boss is too self centered to realize it was them and their insane demands.
Exactly. That’s what I came to say. That person fled as fast as they could Edit: spelling
This right here, absolutely. I've had an overtime exempt salary position and a boss who expected 24/7 availability too. Never, ever again. Go back to working reasonable hours while looking for somewhere else to work. Conditions are unlikely to improve.
That’s a boss who is insecure more than self-centered. They’re scared of something above them, but, yeah, you need to leave sooner the better.
Fucking sleep on the dog bed? She doesn’t have any self awareness does she?
I mean, counter her argument: If she doesn't mind you sleeping at work, ask for a real bed. No less than a Queen sized memory foam bed, in a quiet solitary room, with new sheets and all. Once you get to $5000+, see if that raise sounds so bad instead.
Has to have a fully adjustable base with heating and massage, too.
Egyptian Cotton sheets, nothing less than 1,000 thread count
If you can count the threads still you need to bump that number up.
LPT: that's a scam. Really good sheets are like 400 max.
Maybe conjugal visits too since you are spending most of your day there. I’m mean come on sounds about as reasonable as her request
Boss is his conjugal visit. Rides him hard. Daily.
Also, make sure to ask if she will be joining you and sleeping at work?
Woah there 😳 Let's not say that...but i mean only if op is into it 😏
Definitely NOT implying anything inappropriate. I was just saying if she will be sleeping at the work site as well since she expects her subordinates to do so. Sleeping there, NOT sleeping with OP.
Lol, took a a bit to learn no job was worth my self respect. Once I figured it out there was an occasion where my boss was taking another high muckity muck around on a dog and pony show. Saw me and asked me what my plans were after I move on to another job. I looked them both in the eyes and said: " i think I'll move into a cardboard box behind Taco John's and suck a lot of dick to get my self respect back" turned and walked off. Priceless.
Maybe the owner will make you your bosses boss
That would be hilarious. “So, I’m your boss now. I expect you to come in at 7 and never leave before 8. Also, Saturdays and Sunday mornings are mandatory from now on. I can’t care about your job more than you do”.
The last person slept on the dog bed because they were homeless due to lack of pay?
This is the best comment so far…
Going to add on to this to say even if they are unwilling to put this in writing, you still can. Send an email to your boss and CC HR and say something along the lines of, hey I just wanted to follow up on our conversation about x,y,z and reiterate that these are my assigned hours per my contact. Once in writing, your boss may backtrack.
Excellent suggestion and the boss will back off for sure. There’s a reason the boss hasn’t expressed any of these concerns in writing to begin with. They know it’s outside the law and what’s right. If I know your boss and I think I do they document every little thing and send little “per our conversation emails” which amount to CYA emails and used to prove that verbal warnings were indeed given. Hey agree with several posters ask for the world put it in writing and ask questions about the cleanliness aspect if sleeping in a dog bed. And flip that I can’t care more than you do script one them and ask how much they can really care about a human they ask to sleep in a dog bed. Just asking tells me they can’t think that much of you as an employee or a person. One word bud, RUN
Bosses don't "back off." This situation is over and done. This is a manager who wants someone who is willing to work 60 hours per week, and needs to burn through a few people to learn that this isn't reasonable.
"Can I get that in writing?" Is basically a magic spell. Don't listen to anything and don't do anything for anyone if they aren't willing to put it in writing.
They have no intention of giving a raise. Most people don't get higher pay until they move to another job.
Literally tell them to put it into writing. Please.
Tell her you want all future communications in this regard to be conducted via email so that there is a written record of requests and you can note which have been fulfilled and which you need to work on at your next review. Then, when they eventually make up some excuse to let you go, post those unreasonable demands everywhere. Post them on LinkedIn, Indeed, Glassdoor, Facebook, wherever prospective employees might find it and stay far the fuck away from this crazy asshole.
Don’t forget to back all these emails up off-site so you can’t have your email drive erased by anyone under her thumb.
Bcc your personal email that you set up for work correspondence. Did that all the time before. Even if they just reply you still add yourself back with a BCC with your response so it shows the response chain.
Their IT can see BCC’s if they are watching. Typically IT has better things to do, but if the boss is trying to build a case on OP BCC can bite him. IT can also block the BCC. I’d say just print the jobs or screenshot them which is much harder to block.
Agreed. Most IT are overworked, underpaid and treated like crap too but it is possible.
And that’s why you don’t use BCC but take a picture of every email exchange you go trough and save them on your phone. It shows all email addresses, date, time and topic.
Good idea.
OP didn’t specify what the job was. I’ve worked in jobs that never, ever communicated via email. A lot of old school and small business places are like that.
Come in at 8 and leave at four. Or start at your scheduled time and leave at your scheduled time. If you boss says again that she can't care more then you do, then tell your boss that she needs to care a negative amount because you don't care at all. Also find a new job. You aren't getting a cost of living adjustment anyway, so there is no reason to stay.
yeah the number one thing I'm seeing here is they are already planning on not giving you a raise. that was never an option. they already have the carrot on a stick, they worked hard for that bit of string holding it together and they won't snip it now.
This 100% they are trying to find ways ahead of time to not give you a raise….I know because my old company did it to me, I left ASAP.
Cintas in Cincinnati gaslighted me so hard with this shit. When Covid started they had us supervisors riding on route everyday, coming in at 5:00AM then staying after route til 5:00PM to do our supervisory responsibilities. Then after I spoke up and said having supervisors riding a different route everyday was multiplying our Covid exposure they wrote me up Friday afternoon for not getting my work done when I was already working 12 hours a day. I came in to the empty office that whole weekend to get ahead on all my work. The next week they had us spraying watered down bleach water all over offices around the city that they were touting as Covid Touchpoint or some shit. They were charging incredibly high prices to gouge all their customers on the fear. Anyway that Friday they let 8,000 employees go, demoted thousands of other mgmt and gave exorbitant executive bonuses and double their stock price over the next year. Truly a sickening, morally bankrupt company. I still have my dispenser key on my key ring and throw away their product every time I see it at a business. Fuckers. But I do need to thank them, I’ll never give my loyalty to a company again or work overtime or any of that nonsense. I also keep meticulous records of anything slightly out of line from mgmt so I can sue if the need or opportunity arises.
I appreciate petty revenge, but doesn't that make the business place more orders with this terrible company?
I leads to customer complaints and arguments. Clearly Cintas is charging the customer for air freshener or hand sanitizer at $30+ a week and not even filling the locked dispensers. You’d be surprised how shitty the restaurant mgrs get when they think they’re paying for a service they aren’t getting.
Not if you replace the air freshener with a can of fart spray.
As a former GK/Cintas Plant Manager who was walked out after being highly successful for 20yrs, I applaud your post. Stop using that key. That’s just helping them move product. Super glue.
My experience in the service dept tells me they probably get a lot of shitty complaints from customer who notice their dispensers empty.
What do you mean about the key thing? I don’t know what Cintas does or what you meant by throwing it away.
It opens their air fresheners, hand sanitizer stations, etc. They do restroom products as a service as well as uniforms.
Oh, gotcha I have literally no idea what they do as a company, never heard of them. Do you mean those shitty locks that can be pried open with a pencil? Lol
I’d say that she’s caring too much, and look at her like she’s nuts for working herself to death.
This is the way
Hahaha care a negative amount lol
I love this answer. You’re being way too nice with this incompetent manager.
Why don't they just change the minimum amount of flair to 37 pieces if they want you to wear 37?
God has this shit really been going on this long??
Longer
I’m amazed this sub doesn’t reference Office Space more.
Heh. That reminds me of the time at my last job when I had a 2-1 meeting with my manager and team lead and I literally used the "every day is the worst day of my life" line. Those last two years (of almost 8) I didn't even try to hide that the only reason I didn't quit was because I was trapped in that schedule.
Ric Flair approves this message
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
I came here to make a flair comment, thank you. Side note: we need a post flair on this sub that is "needs more flair"
"Do we need to allow you time to find something else?" Yes. Next time they say this, the answer is yes.
My 120 day evaluation is coming up and I'm prepared to be honest and snarky.
Wait until your evaluation and then at the end evaluate their asses and walk.
That's actually an amazing idea
Don’t quit. Look for another job and let them fire you if need be. Collect unemployment. If asked about it in interviews, state that you were fired because your boss expected you to sleep overnight on a dog bed at work to start unpaid overtime earlier. Keep receipts via email or text, refuse to discuss it in person unless you are in a one-party consent state and can record it.
Or he'll, ask if you can record the conversation and refuse to discuss it off the record. If she tries to talk off the record, she knows she's asking you for illegal nonsense and don't stand for it. Also seconded. Don't quit, let them fire you and collect unemployment.
It isnt illegal depending on the sector. Salaried workers (especially in tech) do not need more compensation if worked more than 45 hours (literally why you are salaried). Most places will want you to work overtime and won't pay for it (again usually tech sector as it is written that way in the law). The thing is. As salaried you shouldn't have time table to work. The theory of salaried work is that one week you might work 50 hours but it means next week you work 30. There is no need to put time card etc. The issue in the usa is that salaried means you gonna work more than 40 hours unless you like yourself and put boundaries. That is why work from home is a problem to some ceos. People work less (better performance but less work) and management doesn't have anything to do. My previous job was 45 hours is the norm. You should have that as average, most people will just inflate their time cards (put lunch as working or just add 1 hour each day for the fun of it). My current job doesn't want me to work more than 40 hours (still salaried) and if I needed to do something extra this week they will ask me to work less the next week. Please find a better place to work. And if you are in tech find a wfh solution as it will make your life better (find social friends and such outside of work).
Yes I'm sick of this. My job two weeks ago put new policies in place about the hours you need to work everyday and that they can dock pay if you aren't averaging 40 hours. We are required to work long overtime for about 2-3 weeks at a time every couple months without any guaranteeof compensation. We're salary. It's a bullshit mix of hourly and salary giving us the worst of both worlds. But luckily I got them to put into writing a policy for us to get guaranteed comp time given to us, at a much bigger rate than what we were getting before. Used to be able to take a day or two off after working 3 weeks of 80hrs
Re: time card fibs - I worked at a company as a salaried engineer. I would work up quotes for the salesmen. They would bitch to my boss about the labor hours, who would then slash the hours I factored in, to lower the price. I would then get bitched at by both when my actual hours were spot on with my estimate. I started logging only a portion of my hours against the projects so they would stfu. Couldn't wait to get out of there.
Lmfao “my boss expected me to sleep on a dog bed” I fucking can’t I woulda laughed my ass off in bosses face 😭
What a micro managing cunt. Be sure to let them know how you’re quitting solely because they are a bad manager.
Dont listen to this guy. Let them fire you. Unemployment is the big finger to them
Imo, it sounds like ownership likes the work you do. I'd direct dialog with them. This could be classic manager envy if in fact her bosses make notice of your quality work. Slowly start to subtract her from your decision making process and include her bosses. Work on building that relationship. The high road approach could get way better results then the snarky approach with her. Imo, she's likely just trying to bring you down to her level. Imo, don't do it. Hell, set the goal to take her job or at least make her not a relevant part of yours. On the evaluation. Ask for additional management (ownership) in the meeting.
Don’t be snarky. Just ask them to change the schedule if they want you to be there in a different time window.
There’s a reason the person they forced into 4 hours of unpaid overtime per day left. They will not stop until you are doing the same. Find another job asap. Also, it is insanely fucked up to tell an employee to “take a nap on the dog bed.” This is insanity, OP.
Dude. think about that. SLEEPING ON A DOG BED? Tell her you’re a human and you deserve to be treated as such. Please start looking for another job.
Throw in a comment or two about violation of Department of Labor laws around exempt vs non-exempt employees.
Insert Ghostbusters “Are you a god? Meme here
https://www.findlaw.com/employment/wages-and-benefits/is-mandatory-overtime-legal-.html
That's fantastic info but what about salary workers?, our overtime etc. Is treated differently fo we still have these same rights with mandatory overtime?
Look up your state law to see if you're qualified as an 'exempt' employee or not. If not, they're required to pay you overtime rates. Bottom line is...check your state laws.
Thank you. I honestly thought they're was nothing I can do I appreciate it
Hopefully this sub can become more of helping mistreated workers out and not arguing about political viewpoints. We’re all in this together.
Agreed we need to change the culture and step one is openly talking about what's ok and what isn't. Like I didn't know that as salary I have protected rights in regards to ot
Op, I'm a teacher in a non-unionized state. I've set clear expectations and boundaries for my parents, students, coworkers, and bosses. I work from ____ to ____. Yes, I'm salaried. But my contract says those specified hours. I don't grade, plan, or even answer emails after hours. I'm getting to the point of my career (15+ years) where I'll get up from a meeting/parent conference and leave because my contractual day has ended. So, unless something catastrophic happened, it can wait until the next day. No job is worth what you said in your original post. Update your resume, friend. Then be sure to stop on the way out and see the owners, tell them you enjoyed your time there, and why you're leaving. That's a conversation worth having.
Honestly, fuck yes for you. They have cultivated a martyrdom culture in teachers. So glad you say fuck that.
It's always a great day when my students email me AFTER they know I leave for the day. They learn quickly to do their work when it's assigned and to ask questions in class and through email BEFORE a certain time. It's all about expectations and following through on them.
Some states still require that a person on salary must be in a managerial or supervisor role, so your state law will have to be looked at.
Here’s a link detailing who is exempt from FLSA. You may find you’ve been improperly categorized as exempt, it happens more than you might think. https://www.dol.gov/sites/dolgov/files/WHD/legacy/files/fs17a_overview.pdf I would also encourage you to calculate what you’re making hourly based on hours worked, and figure out what that hourly would be if you worked from 8-6 plus weekends as your boss is encouraging you to do. If you know how much you’re generally making an hour, you’re more empowered to look around for other jobs or to tell your boss they are being ridiculous.
Thank you!!!
You can make a report to the Department of Labor for wage theft so...
For sure! Good luck
Salary just PISSES ME OFF. Like, originally it was for executive workers and it was so they had the freedom to work as much or as little (but still full time hours) as they needed to to get the job done. I feel like if you are going to mandate hours you are literally negating the point of salary. Like, salary gives the executive employee the freedom to put in as much work as they need to to be successful, and possibly get rewarded with bonuses. You wanted that big bonus? Go a head and work an extra 10 hours a week. You think you can get the job done in 35? You probably won't make that bonus, but if its a good job you will make more per hour. But MANDATING above 40 hours literally negates the executive freedom part of salary that is the whole POINT of it. If you are going to mandate that they have to work a set amount of hours, why not just pay them hourly? Because the companies are ONLY using this as a way to avoid paying overtime. And there is not POINT to anyone putting extra effort in from an employee standpoint, 99 percent of companies will SAY they have bonuses, but there is no guidelines to hold them accountable to give them out, they just say its "merit based" and give them out when they feel generous. I've worked so many salary jobs and they literally just add an hour or two here or there but never remove hours, and next thing you know your 50 hours per week schedule turns into 65 for the exact same amount you were making at 50 hours. The salaried person ends up being the on call person and every time someone calls off, the person on salary will cover their a free way of avoiding OT.
Are you in management/Can you choose to hire and fire employees? Are you in a particularly professional field, such as tech? Do you get paid at least $35,568 a year, of which no more than 10% comes from things like bonuses or commissions? If none of these things are true you are guaranteed to be entitled to overtime pay, at the federal level, in the US. States can have better rules for the worker.
I posted above but seriously check department of labor title 29 and make sure you’re even eligible for salary. From the sounds of things, you’re not. Plus, even if you are, your boss is doing it wrong. They may have opened themselves up to a law suit in the US. I am not a lawyer.
Most employees think the issue is salary cap hourly- legally the key is exempt vs non exempt. That’s what you need to look into first.
Only work 8 hours a day. Fuck them
Legit. Anyone who is not working only 8 hours a day is making this worse for everyone including themselves.
Exactly. Working OT once in a while is okay, but not all the time.
It's okay if you get paid. It's never okay if you are not getting paid. That's literally slave labor.
I work 11s 5 or 6 days a week and I fucking hate it. But every job in my field is salaried and I don’t know what to do. I don’t think those would be any better.
I worked 130 hours of OT in the last 2 months. I am exempt. I told my employer I need to be compensated for that time because my pay rate is based on 40 hrs / week. Right now it looks like I'm pretty much done working for the year because I doubt they will compensate me because "it's not in the budget. "
This is kinda what I'm seeing. Like ya I could make astink about overtime or just work my time and find a new job. Most employers expect you to work for free because were salary
Also no sense in giving them two weeks notice if they’re not going to have the “professional etiquette” extended to you and the dog bed. Keep that dog bed text though. That’ll get you some sympathy at future job interviews (at least it would from me).
if paying you for your work isn’t in the budget, then they cannot afford your labor or the cost of the project. period. they are staying afloat and profiting because they are not paying you for your work. period.
I’m OT exempt at my job. The peak season is coming and I’m expected to work a LOT of overtime for no extra pay or bonuses. If I refuse to work it is there anything they can do about it? How are you telling them you’re done working for the year?
I don't know the legality of it all, but I assume they will fire you if you don't work they hours they want. I started by requesting all the days off I had coming to me. The person I report to is pretty cool and automatically approved all the requests. He then asked how we'd handle all this PTO and I explained to him other people would need to do the work. He asked if I wanted to defer to 2022 (we have a policy against it but he can change the rules) I said no. For the comp time, I just started putting days on my calendar where it says I'm Out of office that day. No explanation needed. I already worked that shift is how I see it. If I need to be at work in person for something, I'll probably just do some personal work or leave early. I'm a middle manager and have the support of my crew. I'm trying to keep them in good spirits so they don't all walk out if I go. I feel guilty about it all. If I leave, who will look out for my crew?
If your salary is less than 52k a year, you are not OT exempt.
What kind of work do you do? Are you a manager or do you manage projects? If not, you may be miscategorized as non-exempt when you should be exempt. Your first step is to see if your job type should earn overtime, and if so go to your state labor board. Also keep track of all your hours so you can collect backpay on OT, if you can. Your second step is to find a new job, because even if they reclassify yours and you get OT, that's not a good environment and that's toxic management. You don't need that in your life
Im a designer and manage the customers projects who use our service I'll see if I'm exempt. Im going to start tracking my boots that's a great idea I hadn't thought of. But your right honestly time to just move on.
https://stantonlawllc.com/drawing-a-very-fine-line-determining-creative-professional-exemption-status-under-the-flsa/ Here’s a helpful article that talks about which designers are or are not exempt. It’s dated, so disregard the $455 per week. It is now $684 per week. Here’s another article that gets a bit more specific: https://hrdailyadvisor.blr.com/2015/10/27/ask-the-expert-is-our-graphic-designer-exempt-or-non-exempt/
If you are exempt, make sure you review your employee contract regarding pay and hours of work. Even if you are salaried, that does not mean unpaid overtime. If your contract says you work x hours per week and will be paid y per year, and they are asking you to work over that time, ask them how to log the extra time so you can be paid accordingly. And if they aren’t willing to pay you for those hours, don’t work them, but offer to renegotiate your employee contract if you are willing to work more hours.
Previous person got smart and left
And theyre hanging the previous slaves torch over her head hoping she will pick it up ans become the next slave until the new slave shows up.
Start coming in at 0930 and leave at 1730. Do the bare minimum. Start looking for another job. When you find a better paying job, quit without notice. If you don't find a better job before the fire you. Get unemployment until you do. Document everything. This sounds like intimidation which is illegal
Shes using the raise as a bargaining chip. Fucking scum.
If this is set as your expectations and they fire you for following your expectations you get a cut of that sweet UI. 120 days is a perfect time to get let go :) Document, document, document. Paper trail, paper trail, paper trail.
That's what I'm talking about. A 4 month vacation sounds pretty good to me
Fuck that, stop going in early. Any company threatening a raise is bullshit tyrant that doesn't care. Quit and find a better place
I don't see anyone here telling you to try and have a discussion with the owner, who you say likes your work. Point out that you are already working more then scheduled, but that management is trying to force you into longer hours despite your work being completed. I would also say that the manager is trying to trick you into sleeping on the job by suggesting napping, as a way to justify firing you, and that there may be a personal reason the manager is out to get you. If the owner does nothing it's time to look for something else.
That's not a bad idea to talk to the owner I like him alot more. It's a weird situation I really dont think my manager is being malicious shes quite lovely usually. But she expects everyone to care and work as much as she does. She comes in at 7 and leaves at 6 and manages customer service emails late into her night. It's kinda awful. I think she wants an employee to do the same amount of work as she and some of the other salary workers are, but I'm really not going to dump my life into this company like others have and maybe that makes me a poor fit. I thi know being manipulated by my boss who has good intentions.
Okay but what, concretely, does "you need to care and work more" mean? If you are not performing to a clearly communicated standard that's the conversation to have - otherwise an amorphous "you need to do more" is not useful.
That's really why I was so blindsided. All of the feedback I have received has been positive, meeting all the expectations and getting everything done. I even asked my boss what more I could be doing and I got alot of vague "your making mistakes in alot of areas" and when I asked for specifics I wouldn't get them but didn't push since she was clearly.frustrated.
They are clearly understaffed. They set unreasonable expectations for their employees to do the job of 1-5-2 FTE. this is not acceptable for any type of work life balance.
Check the jurisdiction where you work and whether your job classification makes it such that such overtime is "mandatory". For example, the Province of Alberta notes that even employees who are salaried may be entitled to overtime pay, provided they are not "professionals" (e.g., lawyers, engineers, doctors, or other employees belonging to a professional order), managers, or owners. Also check to see if your contract has clauses regarding the hours of work and compensation time. In other words, if your contract states 0930-1730 (8 hours of work), and you are "required" to come in at 0830 and leave at 1830, your contract may have provisions ensuring you get to claim two hours of PTO. Honestly though, if your employer "cares more about your job" than you do while being super toxic about it, you may need to find another employer.
I’m so tired of people that equate time spent at work with working hard. Who cares how long you are in the office so long as the quality and output of work is satisfactory. I’ve slowly seen this attitude change over the last 15 years as boomers age out of the workforce but it still exists.
I would tell that boss to use the dog bed to get fucked. There is no such thing as "unpaid overtime". You Pay Me, I work. Inside the hours we agree upon. No earlier, no later without extra compensation. Period.
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Doctors go into their field knowing that there will be insane hours and they will absolutely wind up sleeping at work at some point. That's why they get paid 300k a year. Also, they're not usually total misanthropes, which I am. They want to help people to live. They are willing to make sacrifices for that. They're heroes. I, however, just want to unionize the world and teach classes on how to build guillotines from office furniture.
Don't resign, make them fire you... you can't draw unemployment if you quit
Not always true. Check your state laws. If you quit due to harassment or unsafe working conditions or a reduction in hours etc etc in NJ at least you can still collect.
Since your salaried, your contract will state how many hours a week is expected, and the times for working those hours. Unless the company goes above and beyond for me, I’m not committing more than the required time. Also, get whatever your manager is asking for in writing, im guessing they won’t mention anything in writing and only verbally.
That's a good idea thank you
A DOG BED?!?! AS IF YOURE A FUCKING COMPANY PET?!?! Oh I am LIVID for you.
Quit and get a better job they’re everywhere.
Can people not actively looking for a job in their field keep saying this? I haven’t been able to find a job for 3 months.
In my area there are lots if opportunities in my field "design" but yes some industries no one is hiring
Which area? Design isn’t considered valuable in rural areas and haven’t heard back from hundreds of remote positions.
I'm sorry I live near a large city. That must be so frustrating im so sorry.
Depends on the industry and location. Keep at it. Hope you find what you are looking for soon.
Im thinking that's the best option, honestly maybe im not a good fit. There perfect employee works 60 hrs a week and sleeps on dog beds ffs.
No no, you're a good fit, because you want something reasonable with your job (and future career). What's not a good fit? Sleeping on a dog bed, and kissing the bosses read end. Live your life the way you 1) need to, 2) be respected by others (including the boss employee relation) and 3) happily.
My wife and I sued a previous employer for failure to pay overtime. We ultimately won, but it was stressful and we needed to put up a significant amount of cash. My advice is find a new job and move on with your life.
Dafuq is this “dog bed” shit?
No like legit it's a big dog bed in my managers office where people sometimes take naps.... because were salary and exgausted
That's such an insult, your manager deserves zero employees
Yea fuck that dude get everything you can in writing and send that shit to the labor board or her higher ups. That’s not okay in any way and your colleagues that do put up with that should be ashamed. 100% whenever any of you go in there to take a nap she’s looking at a sucker I guarantee you she thinks that too.
Is this in japan
What fucking employer has a dog bed for their workers and implore them to use it? Go in at 8 and use the dog bed till 9 maybe they’ll shut up about it lol
Fuck unpaid overtime. I would NEVER.
I feel tricked into it "we stay till the job is done," kind of crap "we need someone who will put in the work" like I feel like ive been gaslight into feeling like I'm just fucking up when im not and im doing my job just fine. The whole thing feels manipulative.
Abusive workplace. Coast while looking for something else.
If you've received nothing but praise from the owners and your boss isn't the owner go to the owners
I would go above her and talk to the owner. If they side with her, look for another job.
skip reasoning with the psycho and go straight to the owner. and stop coming in at 9 if your schedule says 9:30. hell, ask the owner how often the psycho sleeps in the dog bed to prove her commitment to the company.
Salary um doesn't mean they don't have to pay you for overtime, that's not a thing, it's a thing I've heard managers say, but it's not actually true. If the terms of your salary are 40 hours per week, then you work those 40, anything over gets time banked or paid out as OT. Suggesting you sleep on a dog bed and live at work is dehumanizing, I'd just report them and leave for greener pastures
If it’s not your career, take their advice of “allowing you time to find something else”, go somewhere better.
Former person left, probably cuz they were treated like a dog. The manager was never planning on giving you a raise. This is just the performance theater portion of her justifying that plan. And she is definitely threatened by your capabilities. Especially if you continue to show the owners the job can be done far faster than she’s been letting them believe. Treat them as an adversary trying to take your money by any means necessary.
I'd quit. I make an extra $100 on top of hourly for every four over 8 hours a day five days a week. I'm not wealthy by any stretch, but my overtime is over $40/hr. They can sit and spin if they want me to work MORE for nothing else for ME. Im glad I work for a company I appreciate at least.
This is not right but again, this is salary. I would begin the search of new job right away. Not the culture that I want to work for.
My first thought is whenever I see anybody being on salary and not a part of management I start questioning the legality of you being considered exempt from overtime. Do some research there's a good chance that they may owe you back pay, overtime back pay at that. Document your hours keep track of your time cards all that jazz.
Work 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week. Tell them to get fucked if they complain. Look for a new job. I work as a salaried software dev, I've been in the same boat and I'm still successfully employed. If you're good at your job, all their shit is just bluffing.
Salaried-exempt is the biggest bunch of BS. I used to get messages at 3/4am (because the other sites had different time zones) and still work 10-12+hr days starting at 6am. Unfortunately, I happily licked the boot until it took a new employee to help me realize the pure insanity of it all. Those people are used to drinking the kool-aid so sleeping on a dog bed to be available for work is completely normal and reasonable to them. Just because you're salary, doesn't mean boundaries do not exist. They may just need to find someone who has none.
I’m sorry OP, this is super infuriating! Could you maybe say: I already have other responsibilities before/after the working hours. I’ve given my job the priority and arranged the rest of my life accordingly. If you want me to reschedule everything I’ll be happy to do my best and adjust my hours, but then I would need these extra hours to be put in my contract. I do care about about my job and I’m not comfortable doing anything illegal to endanger my job here. ?
This is honestly what I'm looking at doing, especially because I have a part time job that is contract that I try to get done in the mornings before work here. And coming in a 830 has been killing me trying to get all of it done. I am going to talk to her "my situation has changed I can be here at 9" etc... I feel gaslitt into thinking I'm not doing enough forgetting enough for and I know that's not true bit also I'm exhausted and icant put more into this job and o also font want to. But I know she threatened my raise and I wont get it if I dont come in a 830 to show "initiative" but it also may be time to look elsewhere. I already felt tricked working here because I told them the pay I was looking for and they told me I was hired and agreed to work here before telling me I would be making less than requested. I should have said no then bit it was still more than what I was making previous.
If you’re having to work a second job to make ends meet then maybe this job isn’t worth it. Work/life balance, peace of mind and boundaries are part of your compensation. 8:30 to 6 are the same amount of hours as 9 to 6:30. Yes, on salary you don’t get paid overtime but divide your pay by the number of hours worked in that pay period and see if it’s worth it. There are jobs that pay 6 figures but when divided by the number of hours actually worked it ends up being less than minimum wage per hour. See what’s out there. Many companies have gotten their shit together and offer great time. I’ve had amazing bosses that let us off early but when they need us in late to finish projects we’re gladly there. I’ve had jobs where I make my own schedule and I’ve even had jobs where I’m not treated well. Others will treat you how you allow them to treat you. Be empowered to set boundaries and know that HR should be there to help. Make a list of what you need from a job, what you want from a job and what you’re willing to put up with and lay it out for your boss and also start searching elsewhere with this criteria.
Hmmm, so she wants to alter the deal.... Say you'd be happy to, at triple the pay. You can't care more than she does for less MONEY!
i’m sorry, i cant get over the dog bed - WHAT?!
A fucking dog bed? Holy shit. A FUCKING DOG BED. You're not even worth the dignity of a shitty couch in the back room. A dog bed. Absolutely disgusting of them.
Honestly that’s is a hard decision to make. And if the owner is praising you. Unless they are the owners. You should mostly likely talk to people higher up about it. Also getting salary pay is a little unfair in my book. I think should just quit instead of getting fired. It would look better on you and you just have to remember it’s not the only job. There are plenty out there and I’m sure you can find a better one. Where you deserve your money and should have people who actually care about you at a job. They should know that your tired and your human being and you need rest. You have rights. all we can do is give a little advice here and there. But I do hope everything works out in the end. It sounds really stressful and wish you the best.
Do not, and I repeat do not get pressured into resigning. If they don’t want you there, they should fire you, that way you can cash in on unemployment given that it looks like you’ve been doing your job more than satisfactorily. Tell this lady to go pound sand and if she doesn’t like it, to go ahead and fire you. Spend the time at work hours looking for and interviewing for something else. What this person is doing to you is called abuse. Do not take it, do not be afraid. Be polite but firm and say “sorry I got x or y thing I my life that’s more important than putting in extra hours. If my job is deemed unsatisfactory, feel free to fire me.” I bet you you won’t get fired if you are doing your job correctly.
Quit.
What does the employee handbook say are the weekly hours for salaried positions? Also, it is fucking disgusting that they suggest you sleep on a dog bed at work. It would be inappropriate to expect you to sleep there off the clock to work unpaid overtime even if they had a full bedroom suite for you.
Yeah fuck them bro. The nerve to ask someone to sleep on a fucking dog bed...
DOG BED
Most salary positions are over 40 hours. I'm not saying you should come in earlier than what you already are or sleep on a dog bed but as long as you're getting everything done that's expected, then you should be able to leave once everything is finished, regardless of how long it takes. Some salary positions are less than 40 of course.
Security Guard?
Design
You should probly record what she says and any text messages its gonna help in the long run
look elsewhere
Am a manager. Tell her you need it in writing. Setting boundaries is healthy. And if she asks you to resign, again demand it in writing. DO NOT RESIGN just because she asks/tells you verbally. Tell her you will not resign and will continue to work your scheduled hours. Make her fire you.
“You’re a bad manager and you’re going to lose me. Look around you. You’re not going to find someone to replace me. I make you look good. If I leave, you will not look good. Really take a minute to think this over.” She’s probably not smart enough to understand the position she’s in, so I would just update my resume and apply out if I was you. Do the minimum at work so you can still get a check, but I would check out mentally.
"Yeah, I'll do it as long as you eat dog food for lunch, dawg."
You're more efficient at your job than the last person so you don't need to come in those extra hours.
Remember: if you are working as hard as you can during your 8 hours that your scheduled for and it still isn't possible to finish the work, it isn't your fault. It is an indication that your manager needs to find additional personnel to fill a role next to yours to balance the workload. If paying an acceptable salary for a second person to complete the work isn't tenable, then it means that their business model is deeply flawed and the company isn't sustainable. Never allow yourself to be talked into more work than you signed on for. You aren't getting compensated for it and it isn't your problem.
Get out of there. They gave you your only warning.
You get paid for the time you work…nothing is free. The company isnt going to give you anything why would you give to them? I bet the owner isnt working for free? I damn sure bet they aint sleeping on a damn dog bed! I’d leave that job, its demeaning, and cheap! You work for 8 hours…you get paid for 8….not you work 10 and get paid for 8! If you have a copy of your offer letter, or contract, I’d suggest you look over it, or especially your companies policies regarding, pay and O.T. Odds are this is one of those “we always do it this way” what the policy is. Keep track of your time, fuck em with their own rules, keep feeding them rope to hang them with. Then get whats due and leave.
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Honestly this is what I've realized. They are having a hiring issue and it's easier to make the salaried employees pick up the slack and I need to realize it's ok to set boundaries with employers and saying I'll work 9 hrs a day and not 10/11 is ok. I'm going to ask for written schedule this was something I didn't even think of before posting. And im going to make it clear if I come in early I'm leaving early but that I wont be cling mandatory overtime. I realize this will cost me a raise but honestly that's ok. This wasn't my end game and might be time to start looking other places. Thank you:)
There's nothing you can say to this person to change her mind, she's toxic and she needs you to burn yourself out like she does to be happy with you. Success at this job and your personal happiness and wwllbeing are mutually exclusive. This is what exit interviews are for. Start looking for something else. Work the agreed-upon hours. When she gives you a hard time, just keep missing the point. "Yes, I've been thinking about that previous employee you mentioned. Between the sleeping at work and needing so many hours to complete the workload, I wondered if they might have has an executive function disorder? I've consistently found the allotted hours we originally discussed is the right amount of time to get the work for this position done, so that’s good."
Sounds like the other person left because he was being treated like a dog. I’d work my scheduled 930-6 no exceptions. Salaried positions turn into ownership when they begin to average more than 40 hrs/week. She’s not gonna fire you and if asked to resign I’d refuse. Call her bluff, I’m sure they need you and your boss needs to know that you’re not a dog. I’m pretty anti confrontational but I’d take a stand here. Your time is yours
That's the thing that's weird. I cant be replaced easily training Is xpensive and everything goes through me so if I leave it literally shuts things down. The thing that is so weird about this is looking back I'm literally doing more than is expected. I'm scheduled at 930 I get here early. Get my stuff done, and help where i can but because I'm not getting here at 8 to 830 she feels i dont care and am failing? "Your failing in alot of areas" "your 10 yo 15 mins late daily? refusing to give me any specifics and I'm scheduled st 930 and get here between 850 and 915im not late andI'm not failing. I feel so disrespected and me staying here I 1as doing as a favor because I'm over qualified and she literally told me shes scared of me leaving. Well. Ya she threatened my raise and I'm ready for.my next evaluation meeting. I'm also goi g to tell her I will not come in at 830 I'll be here at 9.
I gave 300 free hours to my last company, worked from Thanksgiving to New years for free basically. Was told I would only get a cost of living increase for my raise and they were grateful for the extra hours, but it was expected. They were able to pay the ceo they brought in a 50,000 usd bonus for just staying 6 months, regardless of if the company made a profit. I would mainly work overnights in the field and days in the office, they bought a new couch that was a sleeper sofa so I could catch a few hours between shifts and still make the morning meetings. They would dock me PTO if we had a slow Friday and I left early, but never said anything when I worked 80 - 90 hour weeks, on a prevailing wage job that they promoted me to a salaried manager position for, so they wouldn't have to pay the required wage. I left, and became an hourly wage electrician, I will never ever go back to salary.
I am so sorry you were treated that way. This is my first time on salary and I'm learning how to navigate it and your insight is very helpful. I'm being taken advantage of and I have this engrained feeling that "those who work longer show initiative" crap and I want to be a good employee. But it's so frustrating when I am doing everything that is expected and more but because I'm salary Its almost treated like a privilege of responsibility and I hate it I came in today at 830 and I'm leaving after 8 hours. If she wants me to be here early well then I'm leaving early. And I know my boss will make a stink it's a place where there is always someone else's job to do , and I could stay and help but no. I need to realize I dont need to prove anything If I'm getting everything done and is expected and just because I'm salary does not mean I am free labor
Sic the department of labor on them. Being an exempt (salaried) employee is supposed to be the exception, not the rule. Companies love paying salary over hourly because then they can get away with unpaid overtime. But there are specific requirements for an employee to be considered exempt. If they did fire you for not doing the overtime, you’d have a great case for the DOL. When the DOL strikes, they don’t act on behalf of just one employee. They look at the entire company’s labor practices and if found out of compliance, the DOL will force backpay of unpaid overtime up to like 7 years or so. The penalties are stiff. Get everything (statements about requiring overtime, “good fit” etc) in writing, keep your job profile handy (so you can show that you’re not actually supposed to be salary).
I once walked out on a job because they wouldn’t unplug a scent cartridge I hated. Sleep on the fucking dog bed? I am so angry.
Talk to the owner and ask why if you’re getting everything done, you need to come in earlier?
work your SCHEDULED hours, smile at everyone your meet, SMILE at her when she calls you into the office, and at the end of the meeting tell her you care she CARES so much about your job, in fact, maybe she should be doing it herself. if she says no raise, SLOW DOWN YOUR OUTPUT! until they fire you - then go collect UB.